#40k-lore-chat
storm jungle
opaque coyote
Remember that 40k is a tabletop game first
hasty coral
Because I know it’s gonna be 13 years until we get a breadcrumb for any of this
hasty coral
I don’t care of its origin
snow fern
But most are dead, Khaine is fractured, the clown is honking in the webway, one's Nurgle's wife||this sucks btw||, and Ynnead has yet to exist yet
hasty coral
The story can still frustrate me
opaque coyote
But most are dead, Khaine is fractured, the clown is honking in the webway, one'...
Less Nurgle's wife
dusk patrol
Good
snow fern
Lab rat
hasty coral
I think pet is more apt
snow fern
Lab rat
opaque coyote
Basically
arctic talon
Isha is a test subject/lab rat
hasty coral
That dynamic is so interesting though, goddess of healing meets the spirit of nature who is completely fucked up and is a monster
snow fern
The setting is frustrating in the fact that, like at least 50% of all issues could be resolved and somebody took the rod out of their ass
arctic talon
Eldar belief or artificially created by the Old Ones
hasty coral
Like a druid finding out their deity has space aids
hasty coral
Eldar belief or artificially created by the Old Ones
Warp based then?
arctic talon
yes
opaque coyote
The setting is frustrating in the fact that, like at least 50% of all issues cou...
Everyone is too selfish or too preoccupied to even resolve one issue
snow fern
Like the Horus heresy pisses me off too no end
storm jungle
The setting is frustrating in the fact that, like at least 50% of all issues cou...
People just kinda need to remember you can entirely ignore this shit and go make a rogue trader crew lol
arctic talon
its debated in universe by Eldar
hasty coral
Ok nvm then that was more my question
arctic talon
or rather craftworld eldar
spring cairn
People just kinda need to remember you can entirely ignore this shit and go make...
or your own guard regiment if you're awesome
snow fern
People just kinda need to remember you can entirely ignore this shit and go make...
ignore 40k, play Rogue Trader got it
DLC aint out yet though
spring cairn
sandbox with a setting
arctic talon
thats what I like about it personally
hasty coral
I know it’s a setting but I feel like they don’t even TRY
arctic talon
With what?
opaque coyote
40k is a sandbox
It's a pretty fun one because you can do anything in it
hasty coral
To have a good story sometimes
arctic talon
I mean
snow fern
They're trying harder than they did
opaque coyote
To have a good story sometimes
There are good individual stories.
arctic talon
Space Marine 2's story is ass but its about what I expected lol
opaque coyote
Insert obvious Eisenhorn and Cain recommendation
arctic talon
there's a lot of good stories within the universe imo
opaque coyote
there's a lot of good stories within the universe imo
You can make your own also
hasty coral
Darktide has almost no story but it’s thankfully CARRIED by its VAs
opaque coyote
They intentionally leave a lot of shit vague to
insert your own stuff
Because tabletop
hasty coral
I feel like I can say that a lot with 40k
storm jungle
hasty coral
No it’s not
arctic talon
I do like the characters and lore introduced with it
snow fern
I love the crayon eaters chapter myself
arctic talon
but like w/e
hasty coral
But the VAs carry
opaque coyote
Darktide is not an example of a good story in 40k
I have no idea why they even had Dan Abnett write for it
Like
arctic talon
background stuff
opaque coyote
Tf is bro even doing
arctic talon
idfk
opaque coyote
Like he is a great writer in general which is the worst part
snow fern
Yah no the game VO and audio books carry 40k
snow fern
oh
hasty coral
Can like Fatshark just like do the voice direction for every 40k project? Because they clearly just slap insanely hard
arctic talon
warhammer crime are some of my favorite scifi books lol
outer wave
Tf is bro even doing
Generally the accepted theory is that he wrote the background left the rest to others
arctic talon
I don't think there's a single warhammer crime book I wouldn't recomend
opaque coyote
Generally the accepted theory is that he wrote the background left the rest to o...
I think he also wrote the trailers. The few tidbits of lore that is there is pretty interesting
hasty coral
Like you ask someone: who are some of your favorite Warhammer characters?
At least ONE will be from Vermintide or Darktide
opaque coyote
Like Dan Abnett usually parallels IRL wars for his stories
I think Darktide in particular actually parallels the Gulf War
arctic talon
Like you ask someone: who are some of your favorite Warhammer characters?
At le...
not really ngl
lol
opaque coyote
But that's a crackpot theory
outer wave
I think he also wrote the trailers. The few tidbits of lore that is there is pre...
Possibly as well but who really knows
opaque coyote
Like you ask someone: who are some of your favorite Warhammer characters?
At le...
Argel Tal
outer wave
I think Matt Ward is on the writing team so theres experience
opaque coyote
I think Matt Ward is on the writing team so theres experience
Matt Ward is a mixed bag. On one hand, he wrote the Necron lore and some books
On th other hand
The Grey Knights
storm jungle
whos gonna tell him
arctic talon
my favorite characters are like Cawl, Dante, Noctis from Warhammer Crime
hasty coral
My beloved
arctic talon
Noctis is hilarious
hasty coral
whos gonna tell him
I’m aware of the squats
outer wave
Matt Ward is a mixed bag. On one hand, he wrote the Necron lore and some books
He I think also wrote in VT2
hasty coral
Wtf is Warhammer Crime?
hasty coral
That
arctic talon
lower level shit
opaque coyote
my favorite characters are like Cawl, Dante, Noctis from Warhammer Crime
Cawl is the best. You can almost see the spark of Humanity in him. And then it quickly gets shut down
arctic talon
very good
snow fern
It's small scale, Warhammer crime is great
arctic talon
the highest ranking person to show up in any of the books is like an arbite lol
opaque coyote
It's interesting how he almost seems like a genuine, sane person at one moment. And then fucking insane in another.
It's great
snow fern
It's too easy to get lost in galaxy wide conflict
hasty coral
Why does it seem like a lot of the good writing of 40k is NOT part of the main plot
snow fern
40k doesnt really have a plot
storm jungle
because the main plotlines are slop
arctic talon
^
opaque coyote
Why does it seem like a lot of the good writing of 40k is NOT part of the main p...
There is no main plot
snow fern
just events that affect it
arctic talon
Dawn of Fire fucking sucks
snow fern
the galaxy getting cut in half is an event
arctic talon
The most relevant thing is when campaign books come out
snow fern
the lion rising from his sleep is an event
arctic talon
in which that case we have a "main plot"
snow fern
Guilliman having turbo depression is an event
opaque coyote
Guilliman having turbo depression is an event
Guilliman is gonna stick a bolter in his mouth and pul lthe trigger one day istg lmao
arctic talon
Codex lore, Warzone lore, campaign lore and book lore
hasty coral
Guilliman is gonna stick a bolter in his mouth and pul lthe trigger one day istg...
Who blames him lmao
opaque coyote
I classify 40k in like
40K is a setting. Unfortunately even as a setting GW sometimes messes it up
arctic talon
Like
hasty coral
Fulgrim twerked on the Imperium with a fucking BOOK
arctic talon
I think thats the best way to approach 40k
storm jungle
Fulgrim twerked on the Imperium with a fucking BOOK
*Lorgar
arctic talon
you break it down into chunks
opaque coyote
Because there are many interesting points of expansion that GW refuses to touch
arctic talon
depends
opaque coyote
I think thats the best way to approach 40k
40k is the most interesting when it's a POV
hasty coral
Both are glazers
opaque coyote
Of someone in the universe
storm jungle
Whoever
You can remember him by associating his name with Lore/Lorgar = Books
its how i used to do it
like studying for a test
LOL
arctic talon
also the most unhinged comment in warhammer crime is just someone going
"your brother would be lynched on my homeworld btw"
hasty coral
How are you gonna lose to a fucking homeless guy who writes fanfiction?
snow fern
The book of lorgar is literally the most influential piece in the setting
arctic talon
its so fucking out of pocket
snow fern
It literally build the foundation of the imperium
hasty coral
The book of lorgar is literally the most influential piece in the setting
Weren’t there ANY books about the original vision of the Emperor?
opaque coyote
Weren’t there ANY books about the original vision of the Emperor?
They all got burned
hasty coral
by the ecclisarchy
I fucking hate everything
arctic talon
because they know its going to be fucking torched
opaque coyote
I fucking hate everything
Happens a lot in real life too
arctic talon
glory to religous extremism
opaque coyote
Library of Alexandria moment
paper haven
It literally build the foundation of the imperium
Lorgar won and then joined the losing side
hasty coral
Most subtle religious criticism in 40k
arctic talon
opaque coyote
that one wasn't that bad
Yeah true. But it's the most famous example
hasty coral
(Not wrong)
opaque coyote
But yeah a lot of books that would actually help us a lot
probably got burned
with the contents missing forever
opaque coyote
Most subtle religious criticism in 40k <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
There is an Ordo in the Inquistion dedicated to finding as much about the history of the Imperium as they can find
...
paper haven
But then there's the definitely cursed books that are just kept in storage or whatever
hasty coral
How much of the Imperium is schizophrenic
paper haven
By the inquisition
opaque coyote
Unfortunately there is also an Ordo in the Inquistion dedicated to redacting all of the history
arctic talon
How much of the Imperium is schizophrenic
The Imperium is a fanatical death cult
opaque coyote
How much of the Imperium is schizophrenic
EVERY. SINGLE. PART.
arctic talon
is the best way to think of it
opaque coyote
Literally every single aprt
arctic talon
its built on death
hasty coral
EVERY. SINGLE. PART.
I loled
paper haven
Like the Roman empire
storm jungle
How much of the Imperium is schizophrenic
The moment you speak any sense people might accuse you of being an apostate.
arctic talon
opaque coyote
its built on death
They literally say in the loading screen for darktide that it's basically "Run on the blood of Martyrs"
hasty coral
Unfortunately there is also an Ordo in the Inquistion dedicated to redacting all...
How is the Imperium still fucking alive
arctic talon
How is the Imperium still fucking alive
Spite, being too big to die, being too stupid to die
opaque coyote
How is the Imperium still fucking alive
Sheer willpower and spite
opaque coyote
Basically I think some random quote summarized it best
snow fern
It's doomed to fall
paper haven
Angry primates with guns that subsist entirely on spite
snow fern
now a matter of how but when
hasty coral
This is why I worship Nurgle
opaque coyote
the Imperium is a bloated rotting carcass of an empire
"The Imperium is a sickly man constantly hanging off of a cliff. It could bring up it's other hand to stay on the cliff longer. But it's too busy using their other hand to flip off the people watching them hang."
snow fern
If Chaos is sentient, and not like, just doing what their nature tells them too
hasty coral
They are part like natural universe and part manifested suffering
I think both probably?
storm jungle
If Chaos is sentient, and not like, just doing what their nature tells them too
Chaos is very much sentient
they actively are evil
hasty coral
Like they are MADE out of evil
storm jungle
and enjoy the shit they do
opaque coyote
I think both probably?
Yeah but it's much more suffering than natural
hasty coral
Whether they have a real choice in the matter is the question
They do CHOOSE what to do in a sense but it’s kinda like Angron but worse
opaque coyote
and enjoy the shit they do
They're the equivalent of prank youtubers back in 2016
paper haven
I blame the C'tan
hasty coral
Like did they really stand a chance?
paper haven
The Milky Way Galaxy is just a social experiment
Every other galaxy got eaten
hasty coral
The Chaos Gods are absolutely evil mfs though, because they are made out of the shit
opaque coyote
The Chaos Gods are absolutely evil mfs though, because they are made out of the ...
There are no good gods that exist anymore. Mainly because most of them got eaten.
And also the Emperor doesn't count
at all
hasty coral
How much of a stroke will this channel have if he gets revived
I’m thinking biblical
arctic talon
I mean
opaque coyote
How much of a stroke will this channel have if he gets revived
Either he will become some Chaos God of Order
opaque coyote
Or it will be the end times
hasty coral
Either he will become some Chaos God of Order
Nah that would be too interesting
opaque coyote
Thanks magnus
Funnily enough, old lore had it so that the Emperor broke the Webway
hasty coral
Thanks magnus
Hey Magnus just
He just
Well
arctic talon
he did nothing
hasty coral
He is stupid ok
opaque coyote
Basically he was just so fucking pissed off at Magnus that he broke the Webway project to yell at him
Of course this was retconned to Magnus doing it
hasty coral
I mean at least his fall to chaos was warranted
Looking at you Fulgrim
Fucking useless bitch
opaque coyote
Looking at you Fulgrim
Sex swords are not a good thing to pick up
arctic talon
Fulgrim suffers from the Heresy
opaque coyote
You might get STDs
hasty coral
Writing wise or lore wise?
paper haven
And also the Emperor doesn't count
Because he's not a god, duh. Just a man. A normal omniscient, reality bending man who insists that he is correct and that you do everything he says without any real proof or explanation but you gotta trust him anyway because he knows best.
hasty coral
Oh
snow fern
10 books seems awfully short
opaque coyote
Heresy was meant to be 10 books
💀
arctic talon
opaque coyote
10 books...
hasty coral
“Short”
Is this a troll?
paper haven
Heresy was meant to be 10 books
They missed the mark by a bit
snow fern
“Short”
Is this a troll?
If you consider the amount of hundreds of pages of text you've read in your life yah. I think 10 is short
opaque coyote
along with the 10
paper haven
**57 new books**
Is it finished or are they still going?
Also, does the siege of terra count as Horus heresy or is it a different category?
What about the War of The Beast?
opaque coyote
Is it finished or are they still going?
I think it finished but the Siege of Terra is TECHNICALLY a different series of books
hasty coral
Does anyone else think 40k is best when it’s over the top and goofy?
paper haven
That's why the Orks are the best
hasty coral
Like I’m sorry but the grim darkness stuff isn’t really for me
The goofy bloodbath shit is fun
opaque coyote
Like I’m sorry but the grim darkness stuff isn’t really for me
I like both
paper haven
Also Necron stuff but only from their perspective
opaque coyote
40k was originally made as a satire
Basically it's supposed to be so dark that it wraps back around to being kinda funny
Unfortunately real life events kinda makes some events in 40k look plausible
paper haven
And then it became mainstream, now it's a satire of itself and the fan base is still trying to grasp the first satire hurdle
opaque coyote
Basically
The setting itself is grimdark, but the stories actually aren't usually
Since it's in a limited perspective
snow fern
Well the thing about grimdark is that the setting as a whole sucks, but the people are still just people. It's important to see those humanizing moments
opaque coyote
Well the thing about grimdark is that the setting as a whole sucks, but the peop...
Hope against all odds
The fight is worth it even if you don't know if you will win
Or even if you can win
paper haven
I once read a short story about a space marine who had to do some very sketchy stuff to win but he did stop an Iron warriors warsmith. Except the chaos gods still rewarded the warsmith because the sketchy stuff actually helped chaos too
And that's my favorite kind of story. A hopeless struggle against impossible odds where even victory is really just a slower defeat.
opaque coyote
I once read a short story about a space marine who had to do some very sketchy s...
Just shoot the warsmith in the face smh
ez win
jk
snow fern
With the exception of most of chaos and the tyrannids, every faction has elements to show that their still people at the end of the day. even Orks, though their philosophy is primarily how to best enjoy fighting
opaque coyote
With the exception of most of chaos and the tyrannids, every faction has element...
Yeah I think the Orks are the exception
paper haven
Just shoot the warsmith in the face smh
I don't think he could. Maybe he did I can't really remember. He did try to kill him with flesh eater virus
opaque coyote
Primarily because they are the only ones actually enjoying themselves
snow fern
Orks fucking love 40k
opaque coyote
I don't think he could. Maybe he did I can't really remember. He did try to kill...
"Iron within"
"...IRON WITHOUT"
throws flesheater virus back at SM
just don't have flesh smh
simple
paper haven
That sort of is what happened. The iron warriors lost their best units but it also killed a squad of space Marines
opaque coyote
I did talk about this before
But what do you think about this cast
- A Khornate Berserker who was part of the Lamenters
- A Slaaneshi Possessed duo
basically a person with a daemon inside of em
figuratively ||and litera-||
- Nurgle Cultist that is an Ex-Ordo Hospitaler sister
- Alpha Legionnaire. I think you can guess who they represent.
Or maybe you don't
Either way I think they're alpharius?
paper haven
Additionally: 30k world eaters are my absolute favorite faction. Chaos but still human and struggling with their darker nature.
And, I know that's basically just roided out blood Angels but blood Angels already have sanguinius.
opaque coyote
I was thinking of making the Slaaneshi possessed asexual for shits and giggles. They are depraved in several other ways though
paper haven
World Eaters just got Angron. Nobody was happy about that
opaque coyote
World Eaters just got Angron. Nobody was happy about that
"Dad are you proud of me"
"no"
shoves nails into head
"Are you proud of me now?"
"FUCK NO."
gray umbra
I thought kharn was a lot more interesting in 30k
opaque coyote
sobbing combined with the nails biting intensifies
opaque coyote
I thought kharn was a lot more interesting in 30k
Kharn is interesting in how far he had fallen
opaque coyote
A genuinely reasonable person to... uh
somebody who literally has a kill counter in the millions
I wonder if the counter will have like... an integer overflow one day
Like imagine Kharn waking up to see the counter at 0
paper haven
Kharn being horrified at what Sigesmund had become is great
paper haven
*sobbing combined with the nails biting intensifies*
Fun fact: you can't cry if the nails are implanted. They literally just cause you pain instead
paper haven
Sigismund became an NPC............
Kharn was really disappointed
And then he died so.
Whatever
paper haven
https://tenor.com/view/goodnight-sleep-goodnight-meme-goodnight-bro-minecraft-gi...
Kharn the moment someone dies and he didn't kill them
paper haven
There are still things that are alive.
Completely unacceptable.
storm jungle
me every day i go to work tbh
paper haven
Which is why I feel that world eaters are the most relatable chaos faction
sacred ginkgo
“Wait you guys have melodramatic reasoning? I just joined chaos because I like killing people”
wintry scarab
In SM2 the dreadnoughts constantly mutter to themselves. Thats basically showing that they are slowly losing it, right?
wintry scarab
Cool detail
paper haven
There was a meme I once saw about picking your chaos marine companion.
The world eater was like:
He's really pissed off
He will kill everyone
Two axes
One day he will remove his helmet and tell you the truth
The truth will make you really pissed off.
storm jungle
Honestly not too far from the Murder Curse
opaque coyote
the primaris dreads are legit awful
The Primaris Dreads are better at killing things
But not good at
actually preserving them
and their minds
Thanks Cawl
paper haven
The hell brute execution has you pull the marine out of the machine and rip his head off
opaque coyote
The hell brute execution has you pull the marine out of the machine and rip his ...
I really want to buy SM2 now
But I want to save money
Also hotfixes
Also I'm not even sure if it can run on my pc
Okay if I can run darktide at low to medium I can run SM2 right?
paper haven
I was on the fence but it really nails down the atmosphere of 40k
paper haven
Okay if I can run darktide at low to medium I can run SM2 right?
Ehhhh
paper haven
I have serious lag spikes and I can technically run it on high settings
dusk patrol
The hell brute execution has you pull the marine out of the machine and rip his ...
That and the Carnifex and Neurothrope executions are so dope
The Carnifex one is so scrappy too
Literally pinning down its claw with its other claw
opaque coyote
The hell brute execution has you pull the marine out of the machine and rip his ...
To be fair, that's basically a mercy to the Hellbrute
Being a Hellbrute fucking sucks
paper haven
My man Titus 1 v 1 a carnifex and obliterates it
dusk patrol
And the Neurothrope one, shanking it to death with its own talon
dusk patrol
Also the lictor ones are great
paper haven
To be fair, that's basically a mercy to the Hellbrute
Oh absolutely. Hell brutes are the mundane horror of being put in a dreadnaught combined with the horror of warp corruption
But no hive tyrant execution
dusk patrol
paper haven
Shameful
dusk patrol
Mfw I shank a Lictor with its own talon
plush mason
Also the lictor ones are great
the fact the talon you rip off also goes invisible when it does is a nice touch
paper haven
Said it before but Lictors are horrifying
paper haven
I'd rather fight a carnifex
paper haven
As a guardsman
plush mason
the only warning you get a lictor is there is the literally quick time event to dodge it's pounce
paper haven
Catachan devils casually fighting Lictors
And they're like: "what the hell is a lictor?"
gray umbra
I love a lot of the thousand sons executions
paper haven
Realistically you only kill about a squad of actual chaos marines throughout the game
plush mason
the boot for the tzangor is great
dusk patrol
The terminator one where he just punches its head then rips it off is funny
paper haven
I like that the dust sprays out and is colorful it reminds me of confetti
Like: What's in the mystery box? Ah! It's soul dust again?
plush mason
hopefully they add a greater sorcerer so the ksons will have 2 bosses
sacred ginkgo
Mod that plays the halo confetti kills skull sound whenever you kill one
gray umbra
I can double check the roadmap but did they mention anything about expansions to sm2?
paper haven
Rubricae birthday skull
dusk patrol
hopefully they add a greater sorcerer so the ksons will have 2 bosses
Idk we kicked the greater sorcerers ass
gray umbra
Kind of curious to see titus and that one guy get a proper closure
dusk patrol
I can double check the roadmap but did they mention anything about expansions to...
Yeah missions every update starting later this year
Horde mode
For story not confirmed yet
But I think it’s likely
The way the campaign ends
Feels like it’s setting up stuff
paper haven
Kind of curious to see titus and that one guy get a proper closure
Leandros
Aka dick head
dusk patrol
The funny thing is everything thinking he’s a dick when he’s basically just a good chaplain
paper haven
Aka hall monitor
plush mason
The way the campaign ends
its a short campaign with a cliffhanger ending, yeah they are very much settng up a new one
dusk patrol
Chaplains job is to be overly suspicious and cautious
opaque coyote
The funny thing is everything thinking he’s a dick when he’s basically just a go...
From what I heard, he still is biased towards Titus
paper haven
Chaplains job is to be overly suspicious and cautious
But he's not a chaplain
opaque coyote
But in general he actually does do his job
languid meadow
God I really want to fight some (ACT 3 spoilers for space marine 2) ||necrons since one of the worlds is a tomb world||
plush mason
But he's not a chaplain
he is
dusk patrol
But he's not a chaplain
gray umbra
I think for his history, the fact he recommended titus for the job shows some remorse. I just want to see it play out
winter vessel
But he's not a chaplain
what is his subtitle name at the start, again. Hmm?
paper haven
what is his subtitle name at the start, again. Hmm?
Well I have gotten that far
opaque coyote
Also the fact that he took off the helmet is technically against the codex
dusk patrol
I think for his history, the fact he recommended titus for the job shows some re...
He doesn’t impede him at all
opaque coyote
which is funny
paper haven
Plus at the time he wasn't a chaplain
dusk patrol
Also the fact that he took off the helmet is technically against the codex
Eh not really
They’re allowed to it’s just not common
paper haven
You don't get to retroactively make a mistake justified because you changed your job
opaque coyote
He doesn’t impede him at all
Yeah from what I heard he's basically biased but also doesn't let it get to what's important
winter vessel
I feel like he knows his own errors at this point, but refuses to admit it, he'll take it to his grave before he lets Titus hear that
plush mason
Plus at the time he wasn't a chaplain
he was a young battle brother in sm1, its been about a century since then so him being inducted into the reclusiarchy isnt too far fetched
dusk patrol
I feel like he knows his own errors at this point, but refuses to admit it, he'l...
At the end of the day it’s his job to maintain suspicion
He’s also said Titus is absolved largely still
gray umbra
He sure can preach too
paper haven
Yeah from what I heard he's basically biased but also doesn't let it get to what...
He is insanely biased if the chaplain is Leandros. He's on the squad's ass the entire game
gray umbra
I mean tbf titus does some sketchy shit
paper haven
Even more insane is that Leandros knows the artefact is dangerous
plush mason
also if he knows about the inquisitor he handed Titus too im sure he feels more than a little remorse
dusk patrol
They almost kill eachother at one point
Titus’s whole arrival is very very irregular
gray umbra
Chairon has some major anger issues in that one mission too
dusk patrol
Yeah
gray umbra
Like actually stupid behavior
dusk patrol
Like legit he should have been more up their ass
paper haven
He saw what it can do himself but when Titus is all: we gotta destroy it he tells Titus to shut the fuck up and follow orders
plush mason
seems the dude was actually controlled by a daemon and had 1000s of space marines locked up in statis, the grey knights killed him and freed them all and thats how Titus ended up in the death watch
dusk patrol
Titus didn’t know what was gonna happen really
plush mason
Titus chose to become a black shield out of shame
paper haven
Yeah, but the chaplains job of being suspicious doesn't seem to extend past his own company?
paper haven
Leandros knew for a fact that the artefact was heretical
dusk patrol
Not the primarch and chapter master
dusk patrol
Leandros knew for a fact that the artefact was heretical
That doesn’t matter if the primarch sanctions it
paper haven
That doesn’t matter if the primarch sanctions it
Sounds like cowardice
paper haven
If his job is to keep his brothers on the straight and narrow, then it was his responsibility to speak up
paper haven
Even to the primarch
gray umbra
It takes a lot to question even just your chapter master
dusk patrol
Everyone has limits to their authority
paper haven
Duty is duty
dusk patrol
And also Titus had no proof really
gray umbra
Kyras corrupted a shit ton of blood ravens before they decided to turn on him
scenic bolt
it didnt read to me that guilliman was aware of the artifacts heretical origin more that the mechanicus approached him saying hey we got a super weapon we want you to help us secure
paper haven
Or do we just ignore that when the chapter master says so?
gray umbra
Theres nuance to it
dusk patrol
Orders change
gray umbra
But generally no
gray umbra
Yeah
winter vessel
felt bad for Gadriel being sidelined at the start when his command was given to Titus. And didn't help at all stating the obvious, Chairon.
dusk patrol
Titus happened to be right
paper haven
And no proof
Was graia not proof?
dusk patrol
He easily could have been wrong
dusk patrol
Was graia not proof?
It being dangerous wasn’t the question
plush mason
i doubt any of them knew the power source was the same one from Gria, after all everyone believed it destroyed
paper haven
i doubt any of them knew the power source was the same one from Gria, after all ...
The chaplain is Leandros. He knew
scenic bolt
under those circumstances it'd be reasonable for titus to assume guilliman wouldnt sanction it if he knew it was chaos artifact so taking his own initiative on the matter, contrasted with leandros still holding to the orders are orders never question through lines from the first game
dusk patrol
They let Titus send the message to Guilliman too
It’s not like they didn’t let him express concerns
But they’re not gonna change the entire campaigns purpose because he has a bad feeling
crisp heath
I've been working so I haven't had time to space some marines yet T-T
paper haven
It’s not like they didn’t let him express concerns
The chaplain directly threatened him about warning Guilliman
dusk patrol
Arguably it would have worked too if the hadn’t flipped the polarity
dusk patrol
The chaplain directly threatened him about warning Guilliman
He threatened him about what he was going to say and to be careful
They still let him send it
It’s a mix of trust but always making it clear how he’s on thin ice
Hell they made him a fucking lieutenant
paper haven
He threatened him about what he was going to say and to be careful
Meaning: follow orders, don't mention your concerns
dusk patrol
There’s a lot of trust given him
crisp heath
Are they still just calling it The Power Source or did they decide its a Duracelium Batteria or smthn
dusk patrol
And frankly he causes some huge issues which happen to work out
gray umbra
Theres a lot that indicates leandros knows titus can get shit done, its just done in his douchey way of saying dont fuck it up
paper haven
Are they still just calling it The Power Source or did they decide its a Duracel...
How dare you?
dusk patrol
He’s not there to reassure
He’s there to be a dick and be suspicious and also make to clear to Titus how thin of ice he’s on
Which he is
He’s a good chaplain
A good chaplain isn’t gonna be a fun dude to be around
paper haven
The chaplain was in a position to prevent the catastrophe. Even if he didn't know beforehand that the device was heretical, once Titus found out he should have backed him up
dusk patrol
Marines do not want to need to talk to their chaplains
winter vessel
its like talking to HR
dusk patrol
The chaplain was in a position to prevent the catastrophe. Even if he didn't kno...
That’s not his jurisdiction
His duty is to his direct marines
paper haven
That’s not his jurisdiction
It very much is
dusk patrol
No it’s not
Guilliman signed off on it, it’s the purpose of the campaign
The imperium uses heretical stuff all the time
paper haven
And Guilliman was wrong
dusk patrol
Yes which they found out after it didn’t work
Not before
Also technically he wasn’t even
paper haven
Chaplain is outside of the chain of command for that reason
dusk patrol
It did work chaos just engineered it to not
dusk patrol
Yes which they didn’t know until later.
paper haven
But they learned of the chaos connection through titus
dusk patrol
Titus happened to be right, they didn’t know that until the machine failed because the dude was tricked
paper haven
Well before things went wrong
dusk patrol
Also the machine did work
The whole thing I imagine is connected to Cawls pylon experiments
paper haven
It solved the problem it created
crystal forum
apparently my job's wifi makes my phone think i'm in the US so i can access more content
dusk patrol
The benefit was worth the risk
crystal forum
how peculiar
dusk patrol
The pylons in general often backfire but it’s still something they’re pursuing hard
paper haven
The benefit was worth the risk
A lot of Marines died that didn't need to
dusk patrol
That’s how risks work
Sometimes you don’t get the benefit, but it’s still a risk worth taking
paper haven
All it would have taken is someone vouching for Titus, like, say a chaplain with direct knowledge of the device and it's origin
winter vessel
but those obelisks don't operate the same way the Pillars did on Cadia right?
gray umbra
Its still word of mouth
dusk patrol
but those obelisks don't operate the same way the Pillars did on Cadia right?
They seem to be the same thing
Or very similar
Same concept
paper haven
Chaplains word carries a lot of weight
winter vessel
just on a more isolated scale, then
dusk patrol
For that event at least yeah
They never actually say Necron in the entire game
Or mention them
We know obviously but
paper haven
Titus speaks about the Necron but I don't think he ever names them
Just vaguely says that he read about them
dusk patrol
Most of the primaris dudes would be super young also
rocky gale
He calls it a tomb world when they go down the elevator
dusk patrol
The sgt hadn’t even fought Nids or chaos before
dusk patrol
He calls it a tomb world when they go down the elevator
That’s a reference to its imperial purpose though
Which is ironic of course
winter vessel
if there were 'crons sleeping on that planet, it'd be funny if they woke up to the aftermath. "tf happened here?"
rocky gale
Huh
dusk patrol
I wouldn’t be shocked
gray umbra
I can see it being necrons
dusk patrol
Feels like it would make sense
spring cairn
a new enemy not a new faction imo
rocky gale
That’s a reference to its imperial purpose though
Like he literally looks at Necron Ruins and says with surprise "This world is a tomb world" though
gray umbra
I want to hope its necrons or orks
crystal forum
can't fight the necrons because that would be an actually interesting enemy
storm jungle
Like he literally looks at Necron Ruins and says with surprise "This world is a ...
Also mentions how "mechanical monstrosities spill forth" from them.
scenic bolt
yea new enemy singular like a new terminus/majoris/etc
winter vessel
I wouldn’t be shocked
but how would that work gameplay wise? isn't a standard Necron weapon capable of deatomizing ceramite armor with their gauss weapons
dusk patrol
but how would that work gameplay wise? isn't a standard Necron weapon capable of...
It’s a game
languid meadow
Focus! release necrons as enemies! and my life. is yours!
spring cairn
at least the necrons being bullet sponges would be lore accurate...
storm jungle
LOL
dusk patrol
We also have meltas being stopped by tzangor shields
storm jungle
yeah but thats a game issue
dusk patrol
There’s always gameplay mechanics
storm jungle
stupid ones
rocky gale
As cool as Necrons be, can you imagine fighting enemies with reanimation protocols
storm jungle
dusk patrol
Sounds like a Skissue
winter vessel
thats true. I spent too much time on Adric's review of SM2
storm jungle
As cool as Necrons be, can you imagine fighting enemies with reanimation protoco...
necrons would literally be the most unfun enemies to fight
storm jungle
thats true. I spent too much time on Adric's review of SM2
One of their best videos
i love the entire comment section just disagreeing with the video too
dusk patrol
Meltas are the weapon which has the least amount of problems in SM2 rn
crystal forum
necrons would literally be the most unfun enemies to fight
because you tried on tabletop?
storm jungle
yeah because they rae broken
storm jungle
because you tried on tabletop?
no
spring cairn
because it kills
storm jungle
worse
crystal forum
oh then
crystal forum
opinion ignored
gray umbra
😦
languid meadow
How it feels to fight Tsons in SM2
crystal forum
storm jungle
opinion ignored
shut up furry
crystal forum
make me uwu
storm jungle
How it feels to fight Tsons in SM2
TZAANGORLIAN TZAANGORS
gray umbra
Necrons were bullshut in dark crusade
storm jungle
Necrons were bullshut in dark crusade
REMEMBER
they had to be nerfed post launch
from how bad they were
and this was like the mid 2000's
rocky gale
Like the Tyranid shooters are annoying enough, can you imagine fighting your way through Necron Warriors with these guys laying fire down on you
gray umbra
My imperial guard outpost getting fucking decimated because their necron lord keeps fuckijg coming back
languid meadow
I need more necron content until mechanicus 2
gray umbra
And slapping my turrets
crystal forum
the shit units arent that good
winter vessel
tzangor with a shield vs thunder hammer
those guys annoy me
storm jungle
those guys annoy me
also i hate how people are like "just use melta"
Have you considered i wanna actually use different weapons and have a bit of fun instead of meta-tryharding 💀
spring cairn
5 power fists light to kill 1 unshielded tzangor
storm jungle
or just firing a fucking boltgun
spring cairn
just a reminder
languid meadow
I would use the heavy bolter more but like its story version is so much better it makes the ops version so underwhelming
gray umbra
When you need it the most
winter vessel
or just firing a fucking boltgun
yeah. i become more meticulous with headshots running tactical facing those birdmen
gray umbra
Im a dirty vanguard player
storm jungle
I would use the heavy bolter more but like its story version is so much better ...
another case of:
- Bolt weapon barely killing anything
gray umbra
MAGAZINE OUT, MAGAZINE IN
languid meadow
PLEASE
dusk patrol
also i hate how people are like "just use melta"
Have you considered i wanna ac...
-
wanting to use non melta guns is lame
-
Gud gitting
But yes most bolt weapons need some buffers
languid meadow
Bolt weapons are so lame right now
winter vessel
MAGAZINE OUT, MAGAZINE IN
SNIIIFFFS "smells like fresh munitions"
spring cairn
3 mags for 1 rubric
scenic bolt
what do you mean LAS FUSIL IS ALSO META
spring cairn
should've ran melta
scenic bolt
its not just melta 🙁
gray umbra
I appreciate the variety in bolters but some of them just feel redundant
scenic bolt
you got 4 whole meta weapons
storm jungle
I appreciate the variety in bolters but some of them just feel redundant
to be fair
it is primaris equipment
winter vessel
what do you mean LAS FUSIL IS ALSO META
it comes in handy dealing with the 1k sons and nid warriors,
languid meadow
I feel like we don't really need the normal carbine when we have the oculus version
leaden pilot
I feel like stalker bolt rifle has so little ammo for ops it's insane
And it's good, that's the worst part
gray umbra
Spraying 3 whole ass mags of bolter smg into a rubric marine to get a execute
scenic bolt
it takes 22 heavy bolter headshots to kill a ruthless rubric
paper haven
Also, I like the new weapons in SM2
spring cairn
rubric ceramite is the strongest in the world !
dusk patrol
Sniper is amazing rn, the main issue is just some bolters need to be improved and the leveling of them is annoying
languid meadow
Warp sweeeep
dusk patrol
It’s still good then
crystal forum
you run out of ammo is the one problem
winter vessel
I just run a tactical with the standard bolt rifle and keep plugging the dustboys head with my gunfire, can do it with one bolt round left in the mag
languid meadow
I rather fight 2 billion carnies than fight one neuronthrope
I do not like zoans and their kin
gray umbra
Parrying a carnifex makes you a god until you fuck up and lost all yoir armor and 3/4 of your hp
dusk patrol
Also that’s why there’s two other teammate slots
scenic bolt
the main problem with the bullet sponge issue is that the game is made for consoles so bullet sponge enemies are the compromise against having console melting horde density with same total hp pool but spread among more models
paper haven
I don't like how you seem to have a realistic amount of ammo but you don't seem to do realistic amounts of damage
storm jungle
I just run a tactical with the standard bolt rifle and keep plugging the dustboy...
Tactical is probably the peak braindead class i like maining. Literally just keep yoru distance and shoot then get into melee chainsaw attack + kick spam
dusk patrol
Tactical is super slept on
crystal forum
I don't like how you seem to have a realistic amount of ammo but you don't seem ...
bolters feel weak af unless you're on easy
spring cairn
the main problem with the bullet sponge issue is that the game is made for conso...
yep
it's peak console game
dusk patrol
The scan bonus it gets eventually is absurd
Like 225% bonus damage
On a perfect parry
winter vessel
oh yeah
leaden pilot
bolters feel weak af unless you're on easy
I'm playing on easy and they still feel kinda weak lol
crystal forum
the full auto bolter is so bad
winter vessel
weak...on easy
crystal forum
why tf are you forced to use the full auto one on the final campaign fight
dusk patrol
A lot of the guns become much better as you level them but yes some need some buffs
crystal forum
it's so bad
winter vessel
there's other guns?
rose thorn
Tomorrow is the kill team space marines reveal
storm jungle
Tomorrow is the kill team space marines reveal
which marines is it now
paper haven
bolters feel weak af unless you're on easy
Yeah i played on veteran? The difficulty that it's meant to be on. three magazines to put down a few mid level enemies
crystal forum
all of them dilara
gray umbra
I dropped campaign to normal after the shitshow that was the 2nd level
storm jungle
I dropped campaign to normal after the shitshow that was the 2nd level
KEK
gray umbra
And those ripper swarms
paper haven
The plasma gun is pretty sweet though
crystal forum
I dropped campaign to normal after the shitshow that was the 2nd level
my breaking point was the satellite dish
spring cairn
i finished it on veteran
winter vessel
as long as its not desolators
never liked em, huh?
languid meadow
still devastated at what they did to deathwatch 
leaden pilot
I dropped campaign to normal after the shitshow that was the 2nd level
I dropped it after the tutorial lmao
dusk patrol
We might get a Killteam eventually
crystal forum
i finished it on veteran
nobody asked
paper haven
And those ripper swarms
Ripper swarms made me quit for a few hours to cool off
spring cairn
how do you feel after saying that
crystal forum
i feel annoyed since your gameplay takes are less than mid
leaden pilot
never liked em, huh?
Desolation marines weapons for heavy, when
gray umbra
Yeah i know you got to fend off these ripper swarms, hormagaunts, warriors but heres a zoanthrope
languid meadow
this shit was so ass even with 2 other people
winter vessel
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053823148048527440/1281431334048239656/U...
POV: you're that one kid in school who brought outdoor food
paper haven
Not them specifically, but the fact that you need a flamer and other Tyrannid show up
spring cairn
i feel annoyed since your gameplay takes are less than mid
they're all objectively correct
gray umbra
While chairon and sgt hairgel are jerking themselves off
spring cairn
i await urs
rocky gale
Desolation marine weapons are too OP for the game
crystal forum
i await urs
1v1 me in the game of your choosing
storm jungle
Desolation marine weapons are too OP for the game
Desolator marines would literally be:
Almost no ammo
winter vessel
While chairon and sgt hairgel are jerking themselves off
mr slickback
spring cairn
1v1 me in the game of your choosing
i don't duel noobs
dusk patrol
I agreed the ripper stuff is definitely designed more for multiplayer but also at the same time like
Idk it wasn’t that’s bad
dusk patrol
Kinda annoying but it’s a brief section
crystal forum
plug, vibrating
spring cairn
when i'll feel low maybe i'll comeback to you if I need the affirmation
crystal forum
wait
paper haven
Which, the ai companions do no damage so you have to juggle the ripper swarms and two fucking psyker nids I forget the name but they spam that green blast attack
rocky gale
Desolator marines would literally be:
You forget the secondary underslung belt fed gatling rocket launcher
storm jungle
AUGHHH
rocky gale
When you're out of primary fire, you just switch to it
spring cairn
Which, the ai companions do no damage so you have to juggle the ripper swarms an...
they're only here to facetank for you
languid meadow
the crates with no hitboxes was crazy on vet ngl
gray umbra
Korean investor forcing the studio to include their son as a space marine looking ass
winter vessel
You forget the secondary underslung belt fed gatling rocket launcher
this one makes me laugh
dusk patrol
Same with the chains and dish part it’s annoying but eh
storm jungle
Desolators are so bad
paper haven
I forgot how I actually dealt with that part but it required some finesse
rocky gale
Nothing better than the mortar rocket launcher with an underslung belt fed gatling rocket launcher
crystal forum
companions are there to revive you for free
rocky gale
Peak weapon
dusk patrol
Flipping the gun around on desolators improves the look so much
paper haven
this one makes me laugh
The hell am I looking at here?
dusk patrol
Yeah
winter vessel
The hell am I looking at here?
the MW3 gunsmithing
paper haven
the MW3 gunsmithing
Sickening
crystal forum
damn the bulwark class's second group skill is so good
you can regain all your health instsntly
dusk patrol
the MW3 gunsmithing
It was MW2 I thought
winter vessel
It was MW2 I thought
either or. they produce some wacky shit
crystal forum
contested health is a dog shit mechanic
gray umbra
Cawl: "Aftermarket parts everybody"
languid meadow
I love the rally mechanic
winter vessel
contested health is a dog shit mechanic
yeah, cus then you have to go on a hunt for a stunned enemy
languid meadow
bloodborne pilled
dusk patrol
The conversations on this game remind me of Doom Eternal
spring cairn
don't bring peak into this
gray umbra
Bloodborne pc when
storm jungle
The conversations on this game remind me of Doom Eternal
to be fair
Doom was literally actual skill issue
dusk patrol
So much is literally just “idk learn how to play”
paper haven
Wish executions restored health
dusk patrol
I mean there’s some but a lot of this is clear skill issue
storm jungle
this isnt a Marauder situation
crystal forum
darktide players when they have to think of something critically
storm jungle
the "skill issue" shit is literally a meme at this point by this playerbase lol
dusk patrol
It’s not perfect but when people have actual issues with the hordes
crystal forum
this isnt a Marauder situation
wtf happened to that game
gray umbra
You dont like running like a baby away from a horde of tzaangors?
crystal forum
the beta was awesome
winter vessel
the "skill issue" shit is literally a meme at this point by this playerbase lol
i don't even believe in skill issue
storm jungle
wtf happened to that game
Nothing, its good.
dusk patrol
Yes
spring cairn
you melta gun is the correct answer
storm jungle
no lol
dusk patrol
And dodge and stuff but like
storm jungle
you melta gun is the correct answer
Ah yeah my bad
winter vessel
Just parry
dusk patrol
Melta is the easy answer
crystal forum
why does melta gun have so much ammo
dusk patrol
True
dusk patrol
why does melta gun have so much ammo
It doesn’t most would say but
paper haven
Tzasngors are annoying as hell though
dusk patrol
Either way it’s the easy horde control
crystal forum
i feel like i run out of multi melta much faster
storm jungle
Tzasngors are annoying as hell though
clearly skill issue on your part
just dodge
dusk patrol
There’s definitely some issues but if you can’t actually beat ruthless then yeah
storm jungle
i feel like i run out of multi melta much faster
also skill issue
dusk patrol
It’s a skill issue
crystal forum
Either way it’s the easy horde control
which is ironic as fuck
dusk patrol
Not gonna open that can of worms
paper haven
just dodge
I dodge, I parry, I combo attack and hit them from the sides
crystal forum
what did they do to my poor meltas
storm jungle
I dodge, I parry, I combo attack and hit them from the sides
Clearly still skill issue
smh
crystal forum
they fucking made them into shitty volkites
gray umbra
So i started blasting
storm jungle
Why are you trying to play the game properly
just spam melta
stop trying to fight
paper haven
I have to work harder to kill tzasngors than I do to kill scarab terminators
crystal forum
i wanted to blast holes in nids because darktide doesnt let me
spring cairn
I mean, damage feedback is dogshit no matter how easy it is to CC
crystal forum
i want a god damn lore accurate melta
spring cairn
it just is
dusk patrol
Its fun when we have to strawman whats being said because there's no real response.
dusk patrol
Yes theres issues, yes bolters need a buff and other things need to be adjusted.
dusk patrol
Its also an issue of people not knowing how to horde control properly and not playing as a team.
storm jungle
dusk patrol
its not this chat's fault you just strawman it yourself
I've literally never said "just use meltas", its an easy solution if you wanna got the easy route.
crystal forum
i love covering my buddies from shooting with my iron halo
storm jungle
I've literally never said "just use meltas", its an easy solution if you wanna g...
I was referring more to the "skill issue" spam
when its usually never the case lol
rocky gale
I have to work harder to kill tzasngors than I do to kill scarab terminators
classic Tzaangor sweep
hallow plover
The game has been released officially for 3 days
storm jungle
idk why people act like most of the systems are just perfect and its the player's fault for bad enemy mechanics
winter vessel
Its also an issue of people not knowing how to horde control properly and not pl...
we had a guy trying to reach for a med pack once while me and a bulwark were duking at two zoanthropes. he couldn't even reach it yet INSISTED
paper haven
Sure, I can retreat, pull the tzasngors down a narrow corridor where I can easily thin their numbers with grenades and then fight without cultist snipers and rubric marines shooting at me but that's not fun
hallow plover
Let the devs do their thing
spring cairn
i don't think they'll change this
storm jungle
its gonna be awhile
dusk patrol
Based off the issues people have had, yeah it seems to be a lot of that.
storm jungle
yeah what lambda said
like it took them ages to do balance changes to WWZ
and most of them were bad
spring cairn
the counter to bullet sponges is to have more enemies on the screen
crystal forum
i wish the leg squeeze machine went past 200 lbs
spring cairn
and that ain't happening
hallow plover
It's just a skill issue anyways
paper haven
These guys made WWZ? That explains a lot
hallow plover
:^)
dusk patrol
Its also possible you don't like this kinda game.
spring cairn
yeah so amazing to mag dump
dusk patrol
Which is also fine.
paper haven
Specifically the part where tyrannids start climbing up walls
paper haven
I saw that and thought: Oh I know how to deal with this
And started shooting at the base
storm jungle
Its also possible you don't like this kinda game.
I mean we clearly do
you are just needlessly defending again features that arent fun
spamming "skill issue" doesnt help anyone lol
If I didnt like the game id have dropped it already
paper haven
The game is great, the balance is way off
storm jungle
^
dusk patrol
It does if your only response to losing is "OMG THIS IS UNFAIR AND IT SUCKS AND I CANT WIN"
dusk patrol
The game has systems to deal with this stuff.
storm jungle
and this stupid elitist half just saying "skill issue" to everything is annoying as fuck
hallow plover
I can finally see it. Really nice one
dusk patrol
That's your opinion and thats fine, but thats not whats being said.
winter vessel
I'm simple minded. this is the most fun i've had since purchasing a new game.
paper haven
I know the systems, I know what works. I also know what should work but doesn't
dusk patrol
I don't think its perfect, I think a lot of adjustments need to be made.
spring cairn
That's your opinion and thats fine, but thats not whats being said.
It's not really an opinion tbf
it's bad game design
crystal forum
I'm simple minded. this is the most fun i've had since purchasing a new game.
have you tried all the classes
paper haven
The most efficient way to play is not the fun way
dusk patrol
That's according to you
winter vessel
have you tried all the classes
yeah, and I chose the one that i think fits best for me.
crystal forum
yeah, and I chose the one that i think fits best for me.
which one is that
dusk patrol
I could say the same for Darktide and Vermintide
paper haven
And according to the game systems themself.
dusk patrol
Its way more fun to just charge into the horde.
storm jungle
I could say the same for Darktide and Vermintide
thats a reach
dusk patrol
How?
winter vessel
I ain't taking the bait, jay.
storm jungle
Because in those you can actually properly manage hordes and master the combat mechanic normally by just playing
in this its like
dusk patrol
If I don't enjoy having to kite around the horde and always be defensive and block and have perfect area control.
storm jungle
"WELL just read more into whats happening"
crystal forum
I ain't taking the bait, jay.
im legit just trying to talk about it positively because im tired of bikering lol
mine's heavy
spring cairn
you can reach one hit ko's breakpoint in both dt and vt2 for all non boss enemies
storm jungle
^
paper haven
It clearly wants you to focus on melee against hoards of enemies with ranged attacks to pick off ranged enemies and specialist weapons for minibosses
spring cairn
it's like if it took me 5 autogun mag to dispatch a scav gunner
winter vessel
mine's heavy
I interchange between vanguard, tactical, and bulwark in that order. and heavy if i want to play on lower difficulties. Assault and sniper i make the most out of the situation.
spring cairn
it's just bad game design
dusk patrol
you can reach one hit ko's breakpoint in both dt and vt2 for all non boss enemie...
You can reach OHKOs with almost every single enemy in this game too or damn near. You can shred them all super fast.
leaden pilot
it's like if it took me 5 autogun mag to dispatch a scav gunner
and he doesn't get surpressed or stunned by shooting at him
storm jungle
it's just bad game design
Comparing tide game systems to Space Marine's is also just bad tbh.
dusk patrol
Including extremis.
crystal forum
I interchange between vanguard, tactical, and bulwark in that order. and heavy i...
which gun do you use on vanguard
spring cairn
Comparing tide game systems to Space Marine's is also just bad tbh.
i compare the horde shooters
seems fair to me
storm jungle
I meant in support of what you said whoops
paper haven
But the weapon balance forces you into melee in situations where you would be mulched with dark souls style dodge spamming which is clearly not the intention
storm jungle
in tide games you can also actually get out of situations by thinking and doing proper stuff, it also helps that even the most basic weapons actually fucking do damage