40k-lore-chat

[shadow plover]

the honor thing is more so a flavour for the greatest champions but it doesn't get in the way of wanton bloodshed

[storm jungle]

yeah its to show their hypocrisy

this literally says he approves of killing without any limit or restraint and to even betray your allies for the lols

dont know what else evidence you actually need

[green loom]

He doesn't give a shit

In simple terms

It's literally his slogan loan

[queen laurel]

Look at Taurox, that is peak performance to him

You literally have to be just like that and you will be rewarded

There is no honor or honesty in that

[crisp heath]

@green loom @storm jungle , ok, while I agree with yall that that's how it stands now, and that none of the gods represent the good aspects allotted to them in 40k anymore, I still think that it was something possible in prehistory, that at some point they weren't the skewed, fucked up things they are now. I think it adds gravity to how bad things have gotten in the galaxy, that the gods have become devils over millennia after millennia of mortals doing fucked up shit.

[outer wave]

I personally buy into the idea that he represents honor, but in a very fucked way: dont kill the women and children yet, you still got stronger opponents to take out first! Then your allies. Then everyone else.

Perfectly chaotic, keeps chaos as a fucked faction with a bad case of hypocrisy, but doesnt take away from the idea of honor amongst Khornates

[green loom]

Ok but if the champion is Infront of you and there's women in your way you'll still just run through and kill them

Or if they're anywhere near you

Actually you'll probably just kill whoever's closest

[outer wave]

True but it's so boring otherwise imo

[storm jungle]

That's pretty much the case ye, the "honor" is very much shit like uh

"I wont stab you in the back, i will stab you in the face when I betray you."

[green loom]

Individuals can have honour

[crisp heath]

^

[green loom]

Or warbands can practice it

[outer wave]

I like Chaos being somewhat multifaceted, even if still very dumb and self destructive

[outer wave]

Very fair

[green loom]

The multifaceted part of chaos is in its cults and worshippers
The gods cover extremely broad concepts that can take the shape of loads of different cults

[storm jungle]

Anyway i gotta go make tea if I come back to see Ed and Ghost fighting I'm gonna dunk both of you in chemical waste.

[green loom]

Can you dunk me anyway

[queen laurel]

Add some hallucinogens on the tea just in case

[crisp heath]

It's more like how do you practice your worship of khorne as an individual? Pure blood drunk berserker, or do you always seek out the strongest opponent, and actively go out of your way to avoid targets unworthy of your wrath? It's not really honor, but it's as close as you'll get with khorne nowadays, and as ederius said, very individualized in that regard

[green loom]

Though a key thing

With chaos

Is that the deeper you go, the more nuts you become

[crisp heath]

@storm jungle pwomise?

[green loom]

Because if you start out from a khornate cult about fighting in duels

And become very successful

The duel will mostly stop mattering

[crisp heath]

Very true

[green loom]

You'll be twisted more to the main Khornate perspective

[crisp heath]

It's usually a sliding slope that honor doesn't last long on

[green loom]

There's a nice afterword in like Slaves to Darkness about it

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/Ets5RlJOHv

[crisp heath]

[Book Excerpt] [Slaves to Darkness] What is Chaos, the author's afterword

What is Chaos?

This question is at the heart of the book you hold in your hands. On the face of it, the answer is quite simple. Chaos is the dark force that exists in the warp. This force is exemplified by the four Dark Gods of Chaos: Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh. The gods want to crush reality and they offer power to those mortals who serve them. This power most often comes in the form of tentacles, supernatural abilities, and a sudden love of grisly trophies and eight-pointed stars. So far, so familiar, yes? And from a certain angle all of that is manifestly true, but it’s not the whole truth. The truth is far, far worse, and that truth is what I wanted to show in Slaves to Darkness.

Chaos is elemental. The forces of the warp are regarded as gods, their servants as daemons, and their powers as sorcery. That is how mortals who know of the warp talk about Chaos, but that is a rationalisation of something much bigger and more terrifying. The forces of Chaos are not gods, in that they are not like people. They have sentience, a strange nightmare sentience patched together from the emotions of mortal races, but they are closer in nature to a cyclone than they are to a person. They are forces of eternal nature; raw and lethal, and wildly destructive.

This is not because they choose to be, or because they enjoy it, any more than a flood chooses to sweep away a town, or a tornado flips over cars for kicks. They do what they do because that is what they are. They can be no other way. These powers oppose and antagonise each other like the poles of magnets. Despair and rot claw at the desire for perfection and endless pleasure, war sweeps away subtle power, and so on.

What does that have to do with the Horus Heresy and this book? It is important because it is the reason that the Traitors aren’t made stronger by falling to Chaos. They are made weaker. They are made slaves who can no longer choose their own path. Chaos pulls them apart, divides them, consumes them and sets Horus’ forces against each other. It does not do this because it is a winning strategy, far from it; it does this because it can’t help it. The great powers in the warp, the four that are called gods, can come together and apply their power to a single end, but this can only be temporary. As soon as they align they begin to split. And because they are elemental forces they do this messily, and with all the care of an earthquake.

But why don’t Horus and his followers simply choose not to be swayed by these forces? Why don’t they just take the good bits – the special powers – but stay focused and united in their goals? Because once Chaos has its claws in them, they have no choice. Once an individual has let Chaos take hold of them, their thoughts and emotions begin to resonate and amplify in harmony with the great powers. Other ways of seeing events wither in their perception. The manifest powers of Chaos become a release that can only be accessed by falling deeper into their embrace. Characters fall to Chaos, but they spiral as they fall. They try to escape, but their every choice now only takes them deeper. There is no way out for Horus and those that follow him, they are slaves and doomed through their own choices to fall apart and on each other with murder and treachery.

Once Chaos has hold of a mortal it enables the emotions that drove it into its arms, and feeds them in turn, so that they grow all-consuming and circular. Resentment becomes rage, becomes violence. Pride becomes arrogance. Knowledge becomes blindness to truth. And even if the soul that has fallen fights their fate, they still fall. To fall to Chaos is not to bow to the Chaos Gods, in fact it does not require that you even know that the Dark Gods exist. To rephrase the words hissed by the daemon Samos in the first Horus Heresy novel, Horus Rising: ‘Chaos all around you… It is the person beside you… It is you…’ The elemental power of the Chaos gods comes from the emotions of all sentient beings.

Khorne does not exist because people worship it as a god of blood and war; Khorne exists because sentient creatures feel anger and rage, and want to destroy and kill and see their enemies broken. It does not matter to Tzeentch if a mortal who plots for power or hungers for knowledge does so in its name. The emotion and thought is enough to keep the cyclone turning.

That is what Chaos is, it is every weakness given power and set loose against itself without beginning and without end. That is the path that Horus, Lorgar and the first heretics set themselves on when they embraced Chaos. That is, if you like, the point of this book – to show that Horus and those that led him and followed him into darkness have become slaves to forces that they cannot control, bound by the chains of their own natures.

((So people don't have to use the link))

[green loom]

Aren't sources awesome

[crisp heath]

Lol very

[green loom]

I've been running with this take on chaos for a while

[rocky gale]

I think Lucius the Eternal fits the bill for the whole honour bound duellist trope more than any Khornate worshiper I know of.

[green loom]

Well ye thas his excessive habit

[arctic talon]

Lucius sandbags too much for me to consider him honorable

[crisp heath]

So like, I wanna bring attention to the horus section and afterward. This goes in to what me and ederius were talking about, how once you submit, no matter how you submit. Eventually you will lose all your morals to these forces. You may have honor in the beginning. It may have even been what brought you into their fold. But it will fall away eventually once they have their grip on you. Now, I wonder though, again, what this means for the prehistory argument. If these forces, at some point in history were calmer, or perhaps mortal influence was more positive all around, would then as you worshipped them, say khorne for instance at that time, your honor and virtue would grow making you paladin-esque?

[shadow plover]

at least in the old lore Khorne was created during the middle-ages by the bloodshed and warfare that happened in that era so I'd say no

in some more recent lore it is described him being created after the first sentient creature killed another from malice, Cain and Abel sorta thing

[storm jungle]

yeah that got changed because the writers realised making literal cosmic gods created by humans who were on a single planet at the time when the chaos gods oversaw the entire galaxy was stupid

which honestly yeah fair

[shadow plover]

it could still work given how the warp is timeless

[rocky gale]

Speaking of the middle ages I find it funny that Khorne gets attributed honour and nobility in the same way that knights of the period have chivalry and honour applied to them, when in reality it was bloody and brutal.

[storm jungle]

Yeah knights are romanticized a lot in history

in reality they were literally just rich snobs that just had stabby-stab training lol

[rocky gale]

and a lot of them in like the HRE were basically just bandits with good armour, they'd challenge other knights to duels, then the loser would be taken hostage and the family would have to pay ransom or they'd be killed.

[storm jungle]

Pretty much, it was all very orderly and equally morbid

[rocky gale]

So attributing honour to savagery is an age old human tradition

[storm jungle]

[crisp heath]

Lol I mean definitely not wrong

But also to plaster that across all knighthood is equally inaccurate. They weren't all terrible

[gray umbra]

Humans just have a tendency to dress up horrible shit we do

[rocky gale]

Yea Knighthood differed massively depending on regions, different cultures and different traditions etc.. but they were all pretty brutal

[arctic talon]

Samurai “honor” was also a quantifiable thing

It was how many people you killed in battle

Along with some other stuff

Historical codes of honor are always fun to look at

[gray umbra]

Samurai are a glorified headhunter cult

[arctic talon]

Funny testing sword out on random peasants at night

It got so bad the government instituted a ban on it 1600’s

Which really pissed some samurai off at the time

[crisp heath]

Godfrey of Bouillon (the Swan Knight circa 1060-1100), William Marshal (Tourney-Master circa 1146-1219), Ulrich von Liechtenstein (Literary Knight circa 1200-1278 who was a knight from Styria (today in Austria), Jean II le Meingre (1366-1421, also known as Boucicaut and The Last Knight.) All of these men are examples of knights famous for exemplifying chivalry. Basically the super heroes of their time

Also, chivalry to them at the time was an altogether different concept then what we think of today, and was more of a way to determine wartime conduct. It meant more to do with honorable combat, and the dealing with prisoners and spoils than anything else, where as modernly we like to think about it as this broadband moral hierarchy and apply a lot more to it.
The English longbows and trained archers combined to bring victory at Agincourt, along with the tactics of sneak-attack cavalry charges and defensive manoeuvres of massed, un-knighted foot soldiers. Longbows and new tactics led to killing an enemy at a distance. Black powder firearms—long-barrelled arquebuses, muskets, and pistols—came on the scene in the late 1400s, further changing combat. Knights had fought face-to-face with their foes for so long and considered doing so a mark of honour, but these changes made their suits of armour and methods of combat seem outdated. All of this played a major factor in the true end of chivalry

[celest dome]

Honour isn't the same thing as morality

[crisp heath]

No it its not

That's the point

[left wolf]

tbf they would not be killed unless there were other (pretty serious) political factors at play. and they wouldn't really be held "hostage," they'd be honored guests with nothing preventing them from escaping except their own honor. it was basically a game played by rich nobles

[crisp heath]

Just depends on the where, when and who

[left wolf]

The idea of the Middle Ages as barely-restrained savagery is as anachronistic and wrong as the Romanticized view of it as lords and ladies or whatever

[crisp heath]

A fair assessment.

[left wolf]

It was like a bunch of guys placing bets on Laser Tag except sometimes your buddy would fall of his horse wrong and die

[left wolf]

Even when you were taken captive in war you wouldn't be placed under guard or thrown in the dungeon, you'd just hang out in someone's guest rooms for a few months. You could leave, but it'd be hugely shameful to you to do so. When Edward I told his captors to fuck off and just rode away on a horse it was pretty shocking

[arctic talon]

Deaths in jousting were always a horrible outcome tbh

[left wolf]

yeah

[radiant lance]

Imagine evolving a gene where your head can ocassionally just explode

[arctic talon]

Skill issue

[left wolf]

that happened to my buddy Eric

[rocky gale]

I'm not saying that they would slaughter each other willy nilly, but the victor was within their implied legal right to do so, that was the inherent threat that would demand the family pay the ransom, I also use the term Hostage because that was the term of the time, they were basically kept as guests and treated to varying degrees of hospitality but they were still hostages.

[radiant lance]

And JFK

His head just did that

[left wolf]

oh yeah hostage is the correct term its just that "being held hostage" means something very different now than it did in like 1305

same thing with "ransom." it wasn't like something extraordinary you'd do under duress, it was just a normal Tuesday

basically every noble and knight you've ever heard of was ransomed several times. even the tournaments had ransoms!

[crisp heath]

It really just depends again on the where, when and who. How important you were. How much was invested in the war going on. So on so forth

A lot tied in to your treatment. It was very nuanced

[rocky gale]

Yes and the normalcy of it at the time does not counter the fact that it's still quite a barbaric thing.

[left wolf]

I don't really agree, it was basically just a game with money on the line

[crisp heath]

But it wasn't always and there's very clear historical accounts showing that

[left wolf]

Jousting isn't that different from the modern NFL, which is by any measure a bloodsport

[crisp heath]

Not nearly... where is the chance of you getting stabbed?

At this point you're reaching...

Things were nuanced man, and very complicated. Not everything was treated the same all the time

[left wolf]

A guy got his throat slit in hockey like three weeks ago. And it's becoming clear that the CTE rates are waayy higher among former NFL players than we previously thought

If anything jousting is less barbaric than the NFL, since the former was largely rich nobles doing it of their own volition while the latter is largely lower- and lower-middle class people sacrificing their bodies for a way out of poverty

[rocky gale]

Yes in practise it was a game with money on the line that rarely turned violent, but the money is only on the line due to the implied threat of violence. Even if the violence is never actually enacted, it's still there.

[left wolf]

In the sense that it's also true of any bet where your friends can theoretically beat you up for not paying, sure

[rocky gale]

Yea and Betting places which break your legs for not paying up are also generally viewed as quite barbaric

[left wolf]

Yeah but no one in the middle ages would actually break your legs just like your friends wouldn't actually beat you up

You're like several levels of abstraction away from any actual violence, in a contract you've entered into willingly and which nothing but public shame prevents you from leaving

Being held hostage was explicitly this

[storm jungle]

I feel like going "Well we got barbaric sports now too" doesnt really negate from the fact that medieval "sports" weren't bad either

[crisp heath]

@left wolf lol you're joking. You pulled a completely different sport out. Cte is nowhere near as bad as your heart being punctured, or a lung, or your neck. Lol competition is competition. Rock climbers get hurt climbing rocks. Just cause injuries happen doesn't make it barbaric. And the hockey incident is so far from the norm to use that is hilarious

[rocky gale]

In the HRE, in the time period I am referencing, the victor was within their legal right to kill the loser, that is why the idea of the ransom exists, they pay to ransom so the victor doesn't do that. That is the implied threat of violence.

This isn't hard

[left wolf]

I actually don't think a descent into usually-violent dementia is better than getting stabbed lol

[crisp heath]

Lol well, you're wrong

[left wolf]

Spoken like someone who's never actually encountered dementia

[crisp heath]

Because it's not usually violent

But keep being a judging prick

[storm jungle]

Alright enough of that.

[storm jungle]

stop that

[left wolf]

We're just splitting hairs over "what's an acceptable risk of injury in a sport you've willingly signed up for." The NFL is inherently violent, you just tdon't usually see the results of this on the actual field.

[storm jungle]

Either way have a civil discussion or move onto actual 40k stuff.

[left wolf]

Anyway, Magnus did nothing wrong

[arctic talon]

[celest dome]

No person who share gene with the Emperor did anything right

[left wolf]

Heretic spotted

[crisp heath]

@storm jungle he's talking out his ass. I come from an mma and military family. Wanna talk about cte. Dementia, and the affects of damaging your body? Let's have the conversation. But to purposefully flavor it so the people seem like monsters after because of their condition is disgusting to me. Most aren't violent at all. And to say that shows how little you actually care about the people suffering.

Not you, him...

[left wolf]

Deep breath man

[coarse pumice]

I might have recruited a drukhari

[left wolf]

Aggression is literally one of the diagnostic symptoms of CTE

[radiant lance]

We all descended from the God Emperor and his grace. Probably anyway tbh

[crisp heath]

memory and thinking problems
confusion
personality changes
and/or erratic behavior including aggression, depression and even suicidal thinking.

See, the key words are: and/or. Meaning not all of these symptoms have to be present for a diagnosis

Nor are they usually

[storm jungle]

[left wolf]

Sorry man, aggression is a common symptom of CTE, this is getting too weirdly personal for you, and you've already been told to knock it off, we're moving on

[left wolf]

are you playing Rogue Trader? let me know if you can fukkin finish the fourth act, I've been waiting for a patch for two weeks

[coarse pumice]

I'm way behind you

[left wolf]

If you fuck the drukhari it's strongly implied that there's something really weird about his junk just fyi. Heard this from a friend, I'm a Cassia loyalist

And I killed him like a dog in the arena

[dusk patrol]

I think the important thing is we need to bring legal duels to the death back

[radiant lance]

It's really weird how they forgot to name this channel correctly when it should be "Rogue Trader Chat"

[gray umbra]

tangent chat

[crisp heath]

@left wolf first off we both were told to knock it off. Quit trying to flavor shit to make yourself sound better. And I told you why this shit was personal to me. I have family suffering from this very same thing, and hell I myself might, and to sit there and be told that ehh, you're just fucked to be a monster, is bullshit. My gramps is one of the sweetest men I've ever known and only ever hurt people in the ring and at war. Never once have I known him to raise his voice. Now he might not remember me or my siblings, but he ain't a monster. To sit there and say that, when there have only been studies and at most it shows a 30 someodd percent difference from the wider public, I simply vehemently disagree with how you are representing it.

[left wolf]

I'm not reading all that man.

[crisp heath]

That was me calling you a judgemental prick

[radiant lance]

The lore stuff is just a tangent to the real meat and potatoes, Rogue Trader

[crisp heath]

Which I stopped

[left wolf]

The problem with Rogue Trader is that you can't talk about any of the really good stuff without spoiling things

[gray umbra]

Im not ur xenos pet monke

[left wolf]

tfw no tsundere platonic elf gf

[velvet imp]

Imagine us having to fight this in Darktide.....

if anyone ask...

it is a Nurgle Wardog Stalker

[crisp heath]

I'd be down af. Like... lol I want all the new shit they can bring. I'm all for it

@velvet imp It'd be hard af, but I bet the fight would be dope

[arctic talon]

I recognize that, it’s from chaosgate

[quick egret]

what are genestealers and why are people so scared of them?

[storm jungle]

Is this an actual question or a joke one

[crisp heath]

Gene Stealer is a notorious cat burglar who sometimes pops up on random hive worlds. Sometimes he's called "slippery Gene" and all the art of him is this very 80s, austin powers looking dude loaded down with augmetics and golden teeth.

Question for the people that have played rogue trader through. Remember Eurac V? Act 1. The whole Lab Puzzle bs. Did you ever use the excess materials after? Like, does the meteorite chunk or dust ever come into play again? There's a snippet where the "Child" says they need new paint and they mention meteorite dust. But we find out the child is Cassia and as far as I can tell its just going to take up a box in my inventory.

[rocky gale]

Not sure, I crafted the two items and then used the leftovers to see what happened and it exploded the machine.

[crisp heath]

Right... I didn't want to do that either so their just in my inventory

[quick egret]

It's a serious question. idk if the book is old enough that it's okay to do spoilers for the ending

but everyone's really horrified of genestealers and it's not really clear why

[rocky gale]

The Genestealers have a lot of Xenomorph vibes, so it's a lot of that kinda fear.

[quick egret]

I'm not familiar with Xenomorph either

[rocky gale]

Have you not seen any of the Alien movies?

[quick egret]

Nope

[rocky gale]

Oh

[storm jungle]

Shoot this man

NOW

[quick egret]

i'm not really one for horror 😛

[crisp heath]

Genestealers are a form of insidious tyranid, which are extremely apt at invading populated worlds and corrupting the populace into a cult worshiping the Nids. They work over many generations, worming their way into the depths of society, as their members after a time are almost indistinguishable from a normal human. Inevitably though, they will destroy the world from within, usually while a tyranid fleet closes in from space.

[storm jungle]

^

What he said

[quick egret]

Tyranids are one of the big factions, right? like aeldar, necrons, etc

[crisp heath]

Almost every world has a cult

And it's because of this they are so feared

Even Terra has them

@quick egret arguably the worst faction of them all

Simply because they are insects. They have no higher desires

They only want food

[quick egret]

worst as in like - mechanical strength, or worst as in morally worst

[crisp heath]

I mean I'm waaaaay over simplifying it

But in a sense, both. They have no morals, literally at all

And mechanically, we are likely only seeing the first scout wave

And they're already devouring whole sectors of space

[quick egret]

ok they don't seem very nice 😦

[rocky gale]

The fear with Genestealers is that they're basically lurking ambush predators that are incredibly powerful and implant their victims with their progeny in order to reproduce and spread their cults, it's gross.

[crisp heath]

^ this

All of this lol

They're like if predator and alien had a love child

In 40k

[tulip brook]

They have dirtbikes. They're the coolest faction

[ebon lion]

they arent particularly powerful in direct combat. But their whole sthick is that they dont need to be. Because they are already in your walls, and their thralls will soon convert everyone slowly and steadily

[crisp heath]

Basically

Tyranids are wife material

[ebon lion]

well you have infinite inventory space so dont worry about it

[crisp heath]

No. You have the milky way

That's it

Everything in 40k happens in the Milky Way

The Nids, came from outside that

[rocky gale]

No Ghost, they were talking about your inventory space in Rogue Trader

[crisp heath]

And they have settled a single world that they defend, out of the millions they've eaten, and its believed they're building a pylon to call in the rest. That's why it's believed these are only scouts. Because they literally have never done anything like that, and haven't since. Only that one planet

Oooooooooohhhh

[ebon lion]

lmao

[crisp heath]

Oops lol my bad yea

[rose thorn]

hey isnt there a name for people who smuggle chaos artifacts?

[ebon lion]

heretics

[rose thorn]

besides heretic

LMAao

[storm jungle]

Cold Traders is the only one

and those mfers just smuggle anything

https://tenor.com/view/han-solo-me-gif-23242982

[rose thorn]

im trying to think of a necromunda outcast gang idea, i wanna see if i can try to do chaos relic merchant

[tulip brook]

indeed they are

[rose thorn]

mamagos

[crisp heath]

ew no not a genestealer thats gross

[rose thorn]

the deathleaper can kill me

[crisp heath]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/jYMBRAAwHRS1NlCE.jpg

My queen

[rocky gale]

Nobody post the Neurolictor in thigh highs

[tulip brook]

from sexy bugs to mad max road warriors, they have it all

[rose thorn]

i lvoe gsc so much

i need to start an army or at least a gang

[tulip brook]

I'd start collecting them if I didn't have a pile of shame for 2 people

I am trying to paint my csm while helping my cousin's ba army

[rocky gale]

I'd love for the Sisters to get some sort of unit comparable to the GSC bikers

Space Marines have outriders
Eldar have Shining Spears
Custodes have Vertus Praetors
GSC have the Atalan Jackals
Admech have the Serberys
Guard have the Rough Riders
Drukhari have Reavers
CSM have Juggernauts
Orks have Warbikers and several others
Tau have Tetras
Hell even Votann have the Hernkyn Pioneers

Basically every faction has a rider/biker unit except the Sisters

[crisp heath]

Lol I wanna say maybe it has to do with their outfits, and that the whole "nun" part of "nuns with guns" would be hard to translate maybe onto a motorcycle, like the flowwy robes and what not over their armor, but at the same time they have the Repentia lol. There really isn't an excuse

[rocky gale]

People always suggest them getting like Sisters units on horses like knight, but holy shit Biker Repentia would be amazing

[tulip brook]

if they make custodes with flying bikes work, I'm sure they can find a way

[arctic talon]

Hell eldar, csm and druhkari all have multiple bikers lol

Eldar got wizards on bikes lol

[tulip brook]

speaking of csm mounts...

[arctic talon]

Hellstalker

My beloved

The fact you can have a “squad” of eldar warlocks flying around on bikes

Is never not funny to me

[rocky gale]

I forgot the Drukhari had a unit of Green Goblins

[arctic talon]

Fun fact these guys aren’t part of kabals

They’re wych’s

[rocky gale]

Yea GW hated the Kabals in 9th, Reavers and Hellions are Wych Cult, while Haemonculi get Grotesques and Cronos/Talos and then the Scourges and Incubi which should be Kabal units are instead mercenaries that anyone can take.

[arctic talon]

Tbh Incubi being mercenaries make sense

Scourges I have no clue why

Tbh

[rocky gale]

Yea Scourges are like specifically the messengers for the Kabals

[arctic talon]

Yeah

They feel very tied to kabals

Incubi are less tied to kabals so I get why they aren’t kabalite

[rocky gale]

Like in lore both Incubi and Scourges are mercs, but they're mercs hired by the Kabals primarily

[arctic talon]

Makes sense

[rocky gale]

But the end result is in 9th the Kabals didn't really get a special unit

[velvet imp]

They are literally biomass eating creatures from another galaxy that consumes and reproduce until nothing is left

[arctic talon]

Kabalites despite being the “poster child” sub faction

Of druhkari

Really don’t get that much

[velvet imp]

worse when Genestealer cults happen because the cultist believe they will be sent to some kind of Utopia once their mission to attract the tyranid fleet is done but in reality they are consumed and die in a horrible way along side everything on the planet

[rocky gale]

The only special models the Kabals had were the Ravager which is just the regular Drukhari transport with more guns and the Court of the Archon, which GW no longer sells and hasn't sold since before 9th edition

[arctic talon]

Yep

Kabalites need more

Tbh

They have the smallest range somehow

I’m not sure what they’d get

But still

[rocky gale]

Yea, like they even got rid of the rules for Kabalite trueborn

[arctic talon]

Tbf 10e did that for every faction

I’d expect druhkari to get trueborn back in their codex

[rocky gale]

They lost Trueborn back in 9th

[arctic talon]

they had them in 9th still

I’m like 99% sure

[rocky gale]

They were Legend

Which means they had rule in 8th but weren't updated into 9th when they got their codex

[arctic talon]

No they weren’t

[rocky gale]

Really?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

I played at a tourney against a kabalite list

And it was 3 trueborn squads

[quick egret]

eh heh, that explains everyone's reactions when they find out then xD

[rocky gale]

Oh okay, in 9th they changed it so Trueborn weren't a seperate unit, they were just an upgrade you could apply to a unit of Kabalites

[arctic talon]

Yeah

And it was pretty nasty tbh

2+ to hit and ignoring negative modifiers to hit was crazy

[rocky gale]

It's limited to 1 per Archon, but still yea I imagine it'd be nasty

[arctic talon]

I wonder what they’d add to kabalites

If they do add anything

Then again Druhkari are in a pretty bad state old mini wise

[velvet imp]

it gets worse once you learn there is a entire swarm heading to the Galaxy

not to mention a single spore, surviving tyranid, or etc is all they need to rebuild and maybe come back even more powerful

[quick egret]

https://tenor.com/view/kill-it-with-fire-fire-gif-13411041

[rose thorn]

i need gang ideas for necromunda ive been making gangs based off of killteam boxes and stuff

[plush mason]

so what exactly is the "old night"? is it a specific threat or just a general term for superstition and ignorance?

[tulip brook]

didn't they recently made a kabal kill team?

[tulip brook]

it's a nickname for age of strife?

[plush mason]

idk all i know is its part of the imperial truth

[tulip brook]

after the birth of slaanesh warp storms cut off human colonies and made warp travel impossible

age of strife is between dark age of tech and great crusade

[plush mason]

i know

but the truth states humanity must reject superstition and embrace logic and science to avoid the coming of old night

[tulip brook]

emprah bro couldn't name chaos rite

so he used the old boogeyman bad times

if you go full dogmatic you'll fuel the warp storms again so stahp

here you go, imperial truth

[winter vessel]

As he sits on the throne, a ragged collection of bones, the Emperor remembers one thing.”Shit…dat old priest was right”

[tulip brook]

yeah that old story that never stops popping out

[winter vessel]

I have that animated video saved on my account, pretty neat to listen to when I’m in the middle of doing other chores in the house.

[tulip brook]

that should have been written by anyone with better grasp of theological debate and it's been more than 10 years, chaos lore is expanded and there have been way better explanations about why emps went hush hush and tried to cull all religion

[winter vessel]

Anyways, we’re there any other Iron Warriors who didn’t follow Perturabo during the HH, besides Barabas “Titanium Balls” Dantioch?

[tulip brook]

technically, they had a lot of loyalists with their widespread deployment and independent organization around warsmiths

they don't have many characters mentioned tho

kyr vhalen was loyalist

[crisp heath]

At its heart the Imperial Truth held that the universe was rational, that knowledge defeated fear and brought freedom from the terrors of Old Night. With this assertion went the denial of the irrational, the superstitious, and faith in powers and principles beyond the knowable. The Old Night, was humanity before the dawn of the scientific method, for lack of a better marker. A time when superstition and religious zeal clouded the minds of the people and their actions, instead of the emperors vision.

Sounds familiar to something happening now, eh?

Basically, the Old Night was the ancient way of seeing gods in natural phenomenon, using superstition and faith to explain the world around you, rather than reason. It's a catch all term for the time before the Golden Age, at least in my mind, as it alludes to any and all thought like that. And hell, the Salem witch trials were only a few years over 3 centuries ago. Isis is still running around. Theirs religious fanaticism even now, so this time period presently irl could be considered part of that Old Night.

Could be wrong, I'd be interested in seeing others interpretations, but this has always been what I gathered from it.

In my mind, to sum up that very large paragraph. It alludes to the period before The Last Church and The Dark Age of Humanity.

Anything more specific then that is going to be guesswork and theory

What would y'all like to see in a 40k Stardew Valley mod

@crisp heath hmmm... lol honestly? Idk... I'm wrapping my head around the idea of 40k in stardew to begin with lolol

[stoic flume]

what is the "tomb of the martyr"

[winter vessel]

Not too far off from my take on it. But I always pondered about those who believe in a higher power, but not religion. There was a term for it but I just can’t remember.

[queen laurel]

Orks as annoying enemies ( i am not hiding my bias )

[crisp heath]

Old Night was Terran for "Age of Strife"

It's not "real world" history, it's M25-M30

The "terrors of Old Night" were warp storms, daemon incursions, and xenos slave raids

[paper obsidian]

I think Old Night is actually more of a humanity AFTER the dusk of the scientific method, as opposed to before. Humanity had the science, and the technology, and then regressed back to a god fearing society.

The irony is that unlike in our world, the religious fanatics believing in gods and daemons are actually the correct ones, as they do truly exist.

[rose thorn]

i love traitor guard regiments that sides with one specific legion

they are always cool

might make Prospero Spireguard for necromunda

[queen laurel]

i love when space marines acts as teachers to mortals that turn them into amazing soldiers like the tyrant's legions or the mentors

[rose thorn]

yeee it always rocks

[rose thorn]

I could either go the bird mutation hell direction or all is dust sterile vibe and be closer to trh HH description

Or go a third left field direction

[coarse pumice]

No, it was before the birth of Slaanesh

[timber plinth]

So what do you guys think is gonna happen to our "Strike teams." that killed the Karnak twins?

Interrogator Rannick wasn't only just surprised but extremely impressed that the fearsome four of the warband went in and killed Wolfers lieutenants

[crisp heath]

Agnostic is the word you're looking for

Or Deism

Depending

[winter vessel]

So then would Big E even stamp out that idea as well?

[crisp heath]

Probably.

He wasn't big on any sort of belief you couldn't prove

If it wasn't testable, he probably wouldn't have liked it.

[winter vessel]

And there was never a question he couldn't answer. allegedly making him in the right

[crisp heath]

@crisp heath is there something that says that outright?

Just curious

First book of the horus heresy

Lol darnit, now I'm gonna have to go digging

[storm jungle]

Any sort of religion is basically bad.

he was very much like Andrew Ryan

"No gods. Only men."

[crisp heath]

Which makes me wonder how he felt about Confuciunism lol

[storm jungle]

We basically got no answers to any of that.

the AI rebellion barely has any lore.

Yeah no its flimsy

the second part especially

[crisp heath]

I guess they still believe in Confucius as a spirit, which Big E wouldn't like, but I wonder lol

[storm jungle]

we literally dont know why the AI turned on humanity lol

What the fuck

[winter vessel]

that'd be kinda confusing

[storm jungle]

Man of Iron you can literally find on google for free as a PDF since someone uploaded it.

yeah its a short story

god forbid we get books with actual depth

[crisp heath]

@crisp heath @storm jungle so, from my understanding we get some small hints from the one surviving ai that hates humans, but nothing concrete. Basically, the best guess seems to be the ai gained true awareness and rebelled, in a very real sense, causing a massive war that humanity mostly rode out while machines did most of the fighting. Which, going off the way the military is moving toward automation, may not be all that far off.

[storm jungle]

the general thing with AI rebellions usually is humanity not respecting the self awareness and a machine having a soul or conciousness.

which yeah checks out

[earnest snow]

If that machine didn't want a conscience it shoulda ripped out the AI part of it then smh

Trying to get us humans to edit our creations in a healthy manner

absurd

[crisp heath]

🤣

Who would ever DARE such a thought

[earnest snow]

Though that AI that shit talked the admech is cool though

and the general imperium

Idk if it self-detonated, but either way

its cool

[crisp heath]

I mean can you blame it lol

I'd probably pop myself too if the imperium was the ones that found me

Lol honestly. There's only like, 3 societies I'd willingly join in 40k

Most of them would get that response from me lol

[winter vessel]

in that instance the admech became that photo of Spongebob sitting in a booth in the rain contemplating life's choices.

[crisp heath]

🤣 💀

[earnest snow]

The AI was created during a time where humanity was at its peak and witnessed our downfall only to rise again into what we are in 40k. It really had some mean words

[crisp heath]

modern society doesn't respect the human soul or consciousness. if AI ontology is in any way like human's, then i am not seeing any kind of rebellion coming.

[summer mural]

how strong is a solitaire

[tulip brook]

around named chapter master level

[summer mural]

why does the ministorum run the schola progenia

id assume it would fall under the administratum

well, now that I think about, I suppose making all those cadets into hardline devout imperialists devoted to the big e is probably important

[storm jungle]

pretty much that

the Progenia is literally catholic boarding school but more military lol

[crisp heath]

isn't it technically the 42nd milenium in lore?

[storm jungle]

Always was.

[spring cairn]

Do ogryns suffer from the gorilla syndrome

[crisp heath]

the intro cinemati for this game says 41st

[queen laurel]

Walking on knuckles?

[queen laurel]

Yeah because it takes place during that time

[spring cairn]

no

being huge and very strong but at a price

[crisp heath]

i think some of the party banter talks about the indomitus crusade and great rift.

[queen laurel]

Ogryns can be smart

[spring cairn]

not that

[queen laurel]

They're just kept on suboptimal intelligence

What drawbacks do you mean then

[spring cairn]

🤏

gorilla syndrome

[queen laurel]

Yeah they're talking about the return of guilimann

[crisp heath]

but i have heard the imperium changed the dating system after the terran crusade and roboute's return, cause some places are having time messed up by the warp or something

[queen laurel]

Ehhh

I guess

[spring cairn]

we need lore confirmation for this

[crisp heath]

Gulliman mission cameo when

[storm jungle]

No biggy still 42nd

also this game is a bit before the current timeline events

[queen laurel]

Our characters have died of old age if they somehow make it

[shadow plover]

well not that much behind it when they've had primaris marines around long enough to have statues about them all around throneside

[storm jungle]

its around the Plague Wars iirc

[crisp heath]

i'm guessing before arks and 4th tyranid war?

[crisp heath]

life extension/warp fuckery

[storm jungle]

Yes.

[crisp heath]

i want a tyranid version of this game tbh. i'm surprised they did nurgle instead of tyranid

[storm jungle]

Nurgle is just more varied and exploreable.

Tyranids are extremely one-note.

[celest dome]

Deathwing. And SM 2 is also gonna have a horde mode against Tyr

[crisp heath]

thy could spice things up by having part of hive fleet leviathan hit this world, add more missions and story stuff

[crisp heath]

oh yes that's awesome. when does SM2 come out?

[storm jungle]

Tyranids dont offer anything interesting.

they work better for a Space Marine game

"Go fight these hordes of faceless bugs"

"Go destroy this bio-structure"

"Go fight this bigger bug"

[crisp heath]

someone has salt towards the bugs. let me guess....you are from Beunos Aires and lost people when it got destroyed?

[storm jungle]

Not really I'm just saying it as how it is.

Tyranids work better for a more surface horde-shooter like Space Marine 2

a faceless generic enemy you can mow in the thousands

[celest dome]

I'm against Xenos, at least in Darktide

[crisp heath]

SM2 will be against Tyranid? I thought Chaos was involved too

[celest dome]

Tyranids and TSons

(Same way SM1 was against Orks and Chaos)

[crisp heath]

i should probably plat the 1st one

[rocky gale]

Feel like SM2 missed a trick by sticking with Ultramarine, especially with the way they want to have the co-op and multiplayer modes, it would have been the perfect opportunity for them to switch to Deathwatch so in co-op/multiplayer game modes it could let people pick which chapter their dude is from.

[storm jungle]

Yeah its just the one that fits Titus the most i guess

[crisp heath]

Ultramarines are the chapter everyone knows besides Space Wolves

[rocky gale]

Yea but all the chapters can go to Deathwatch, so it could have been an opportunity to have Titus in the Deathwatch with a mixed squad from other chapters, providing some interesting interchapter banter.

[prisma lark]

yeah, that's what I wished Eternal Crusade had done for Marines as well

even without the banter, that would make more sense (to me) that a strike force comprised of marines from 5 or 6 different chapters

[crisp heath]

downloafing the first space marine now

[storm jungle]

I hope you like green

[rose thorn]

silly question(ish) so whats with like, weird power scaling with guard

guardsmen, then there was tempest scions which was fine

\then you get vets, then karskins, and like

are the karskins supposed to be better then scions?

then you got like 'the lucifer blacks are th ebest of the best' despite being a guard regiment

[prisma lark]

scions are elites from the Progenia or something school, they don't even belong to the Imperial Guard proper

[rose thorn]

then you got gaunts ghosts too

[prisma lark]

Kasrkin are Cadian veterans that get better equipment than normal guardsmen, equivalent to Scions

[rose thorn]

oh karskins are cadain only?

[prisma lark]

Gaunt's ghosts are just what's left of the Guardsmen from the planet Tanith

[storm jungle]

Kasrkins are Stormtroopers but exclusive to Cadia, which every big Guardsman regiment gets, they are the elite branch of their respective regiment, its just that stormtroopers are barely ever explored in other official regiments or even have any artistic presentation.

Scions are basically a tier above stormtroopers, they got their own faction within the Imperium and office that controls where they go, they are basically the Navy Seals of the Imperium.

for example Catachan also call their stormtroopers Catachan Devils and so on.

[storm jungle]

Lucifer Blacks are also just a glorified regiment that is present on terra with also barely any lore lol

[rose thorn]

oka gotcha

[storm jungle]

did any of that make sense

[rose thorn]

so cadia puts their best soldeirs on loan?

[storm jungle]

No no

Kasrkin are Stormtroopers, they get their own special name in the regiment.

[rose thorn]

ohhhhhhhhhh

oka

[storm jungle]

its literally like how IRL we all got counter-terrorists right?

but every country dubs them their own unit

GIGN, Spetsnaz, Seals, etc

[rose thorn]

r6s warhammer when

[storm jungle]

now imagine that but fighting aliens

Kill-Team is basically that lol

[rose thorn]

oh fair

im looking at kill teams and i ahve no clue how im so confused

[storm jungle]

but basically the real issue like i said is other regiments also got stormtroopers but they get ZERO representation.

Its basically only just Cadia, Krieg and Catachan that got stormtroopers shown off in artwork and models.

well even Krieg is kinda out of date because Forgeworld nvm

[rose thorn]

lol

[storm jungle]

💀

[rose thorn]

i wanan make my big armies my own homebrew, i have the kill teams starter and im tempted to either make them brood brothers like im gonan do with any other guard i get

or make them into my beloved first born

s

but i have seen zero krieg gsc

[prisma lark]

we had old "generic" stormtroopers minis a while ago, the ones used for the DoW2 design

[storm jungle]

those are Inquisitorial stormtroopers

they got liquidified sadly

[rose thorn]

suprised disney doesnt throw a fit over storm troopers

i know its already a word but

[storm jungle]

why do you think Tempestus Scions got made

[rose thorn]

LMAO

[storm jungle]

and now nobody in 40k uses the word "stormtrooper"

IM NOT JOKING

[viral halo]

stormboyz were nazi orks before they edited that bit

[prisma lark]

the minis were'nt specifically "Inquisitorial", they used them as such when the 3rd ed Daemon Hunters codex was released

[storm jungle]

Daemonhunters are inquisition tho

[prisma lark]

but were used as stormtroopers for the IG long before

[storm jungle]

Nah im very sure it was different

the entire stormtrooper thing is also a fucking mess

since it was bungled through name changes for IP reasons and easier marketing before Scions got made

[rose thorn]

im glad 40k's xenos are technically pretty unique

[prisma lark]

oh there were even older stormtroopers lol

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:ST2nd.jpg

[rose thorn]

THOSE ARE JUST GUYS

[storm jungle]

yeah thats them

LMAO

[rose thorn]

I WAS EXPECTING SOMETHING MROE SCIFI

nah here is yoru dudes

[storm jungle]

They are just lil army men

be nice

[rose thorn]

i could go to dollar tree and get them

i thought storm troopers wee supposed to be like, elite

not miltia cosplayers lol

[prisma lark]

and the ones shown as "inquisitorial stormtroopers" in the Daemon Hunter codex were from 2000, 3 years before the codex itself

[summer mural]

tempestus scions are pretty elite

[spring cairn]

the only other named stormtroopers i can think of are Grenadiers for the DoK which is a shame

[summer mural]

so are kasrkin

[storm jungle]

Yep I said it more below

[summer mural]

and kreig grenadiers

[storm jungle]

its literally just Krieg, Kasrkin and Catachan Devils

who literally just look like generic catachan guardsmen lol

[summer mural]

but they are just regular hoomies yes

[viral halo]

the k in krieg stands for kringe

had to get that out sorry

[storm jungle]

facts

[spring cairn]

i wish they would go in details about every famous regiment's version

[rose thorn]

wait the fucking tectonic frag drill is a gsc model

[viral halo]

the C in catachan stands for chad

[rose thorn]

i thought it was just terrain

[prisma lark]

the difference being, Scions learned everything in school, while the kasrkin have real experience

[storm jungle]

Yeah but they dont make enough money so into the bin they go 💀

[spring cairn]

imagine stormtroopers but for Elysian droptroops

imagine

[viral halo]

bring back steel legion holy shit

[summer mural]

not anymore they dont

[viral halo]

Just like IRL

[spring cairn]

at least darktide got you covered in the SL department

[summer mural]

the cadians just get to one up a bunch of guardsmen because they grow up fighting chaos pretty much

the kreigers get to one up people because they feel really guilty

[storm jungle]

Scions are still more elite.

Thats basically their job

[viral halo]

Every single description of warhammer units is THE MOST ELITE X IN THE GALAXY

[storm jungle]

LMAO

[viral halo]

if they released a delivery guy model it would be THE MOST ELITE DELIVERYMAN EVER

then it would have ebay guy who is EVEN MORE ELITE

[summer mural]

and they have their elite chaos equivalents of course

[spring cairn]

it's a question of pov

[viral halo]

THE MOST ELITE CHAOS DELIVERYMEN

[spring cairn]

like every codex is hyping up it's dudes

[summer mural]

you know who should be less hyped

space marines

[viral halo]

they sell too much

[storm jungle]

https://youtu.be/08EMEAf4EW8?t=123

[spring cairn]

I like space marines

[storm jungle]

oh right they are a thing

[viral halo]

I like dark angels

[summer mural]

I like them only when drunk space wolves start beheading inquisitors

[spring cairn]

But I can't really think of any faction I don't like in 40k

[spare osprey]

HEY you watch your mouth

[viral halo]

but chaos space marines >

[spare osprey]

who else but Timmius is gonna give you same day shipping from terra to baal

[viral halo]

same day warp shippinh

[summer mural]

also, I like blood angels

fuck them dark angels

[viral halo]

Gellar field fails and the amazon driver becomes a floating anus

wheres my packacge amazon

[summer mural]

with slaanesh

[rose thorn]

what was that terribly written war called again

[spare osprey]

no primarch? stay mad

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer40k-dark-angels-tts-gif-21604305

[summer mural]

the horus heresy?

[rose thorn]

nah it was like, the year sof shame

[spare osprey]

which is why fallen is where it's at

[summer mural]

I like blood angels only because 1. I like Dante, and 2. They like to attack folks by crash landing into them from the lower stratosphere

[spare osprey]

easily some of my fav traitor art

[storm jungle]

David Gallagher my man

hes still making art too

[spare osprey]

yup

love his work

[storm jungle]

EVEN IF ITS ON FUCKING INSTAGRAM

speaking of, due for a visit

[spare osprey]

seriously, his fallen series is some of my personal favorite 40k pieces

[storm jungle]

Shame all the OGs like him have left GW

[spare osprey]

fr

[summer mural]

the months of shame?

[spare osprey]

hell thing i'll always be pissed about

is that they didn't use his boxart for dark vengence

[storm jungle]

yeah fallen in general get the short end of the stick

literally dark angels but dark colored

lmao

THEIR MAIN STORE PAGE THING IS LITERALLY PHOTOSHOPPED

AND THE MODELS LOOK LIKE PLAYDOUGH

[spare osprey]

YES

LITERAL IMAGE EDIT

[summer mural]

why does nobody in the dark angels dress like their primarch

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

THEY DO THO

[shadow plover]

fallen aren't interesting enough to warrant more to be frank

[spare osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/i'll-kill-you-tim-robinson-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson-angry-mad-gif-9099818194528470076

[storm jungle]

you arent interesting enough to warrant more

get him

[shadow plover]

[summer mural]

lion doesnt wear fully body robes

[shadow plover]

But then the Risen in the other hand, now that is getting interesting

[spare osprey]

like come on, one of these is very obviously cooler than the other

[summer mural]

cypher is cool though

[spare osprey]

honestly

[summer mural]

dual wielding pistols will always be cool

[spare osprey]

cypher is like my least favorite fallen

[summer mural]

fuck the fallen

[spare osprey]

wow rude

[summer mural]

cypher is cool despite being a fallen

[spare osprey]

like give me more of marbas bro

or Griffayn

[summer mural]

I lost interest in the fallen when I read how azrael time accidentally created them by time looping the whole thing

basically, how they got scattered across space

[spare osprey]

supposedly

[summer mural]

well, its not clear cut yes, but it is pretty heavily implied

[spare osprey]

yeah

[summer mural]

its also hilarious

[spare osprey]

CAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE A DA BOOK WITHOUT FUCKIN EM UP

[spare osprey]

osmadiel is where it's at for fallen tho

easily top 3

[storm jungle]

hes a true bro

[crisp heath]

𝕲𝖔𝖙𝖙 𝖒𝖎𝖙 𝖚𝖓𝖘.

[storm jungle]

holy shit its THE Dark Angels

[summer mural]

so if I understand it correctly

[crisp heath]

imagine if two dark angels were on an asteroid and one beats the other to death with a rock. would that be messed up or what

[storm jungle]

I know this reference

where the fuck was it from

[summer mural]

all the primarchs falling to chaos could have been avoided if lorgar hadnt landed on colchis

[spare osprey]

ehhhh

i mean the whole laer blade prob would've still happened if i'm not being stupid atm

[summer mural]

well sure

[crisp heath]

didn´t we have this exact conversation about "if the primarchs hadn´t X they wouldnt have fallen to chaos"

if i hadnt decided to walk down the stairs i wouldnt have fallen on my face

please there is blood everywhere

[spare osprey]

have a caprisun or something

[gleaming thorn]

uff interesting chat over there

[crisp heath]

if GE had bothered to learn about where Lorgar was raised at all. Also if he had actually told his sons more about the warp beyond just "it's dangerous don't go looking too deeply or I'll be mad rawr xd". Maybe the whole "hey so there are these evil extremely powerful psychic entities that exist in the warp and pretend to be Gods, we must oppose them at all costs"

[rose thorn]

ueaa

yeaa

[summer mural]

but erebus only got to be a space marine because lorgar grew up on colchis and we dont get horus corruption without lorgar and erebus

[spare osprey]

could've happened some other way

it's a weird situation

[rose thorn]

side note cypher has been to necromunda for apparenetly no reason

[spare osprey]

mhm

[rose thorn]

and its extremely funny

[spare osprey]

wanted and everything

it's hilarious

[rose thorn]

best part

they blacked ot his entire poster

[spare osprey]

isn't the reward like a whole planet too?

[summer mural]

thats basically when the inquisiton tried explaining to the space wolves " you live in this imperium, you have to follow laws you dont like and do mean things you dont want to because we say so in the law" and the space wolves just went :
" Lol No, eat my chainaxe"

[rose thorn]

you get the planet Tregrom

[shadow plover]

yeah it's so silly it seems more so just a funny easter egg by the devs than anything substantial

[rose thorn]

~~a chaos cult accidentally fromed by cypher would be very funny ~~

in necromunda

[spare osprey]

it would be

[summer mural]

"accidentally"

[crisp heath]

thought this was cyberpunk 2077 at first

[summer mural]

speaking of cyberpunk 2077, I just finished edgerunners like two hours, holy shit what an incredible show

[rose thorn]

just remake this but slightly chaos

[summer mural]

I binge watched it like a crack addict

[rose thorn]

"oh gee a space marine! Lets worship him and mayeb we hill comeback to save us from the opression of necromunda!"

[spare osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-tanamen-gecky-incorporeal-gif-21102682

[storm jungle]

I dont ever remember crying at the end of any animated feature since UP™️ as I did with Edgerunners lmao

[gleaming thorn]

Long live for Necromunda..¨tho

[storm jungle]

i kinda coped by saying that at the end everything that happened was David's fault, which tbh it was

[summer mural]

My brain is still reeling , I dont understand what exactly happened to it

[storm jungle]

Its a very rare case of where literally everyone in the fucking cast dies lol

[rose thorn]

honestly i wish auxilaries are mentioned more in wahrammer

[storm jungle]

definitely a proper grimdark ending

[crisp heath]

it's a great show. it just annoys me cause it basically made everyone forget 2077 was released in an unfinished state, missing features still being advertised up to a month post release, and overall is q 7/10 game that has a pointless open world lol

[storm jungle]

Night City eats you up and spits you out

the only way you can win is by leaving it

[spare osprey]

same

[summer mural]

it was v good, animation, music everything

[spare osprey]

DA have theirs mentioned a bit but god their art is so boring

[storm jungle]

Adam Smasher coming in at the end being a space marine tier threat was 💀

[summer mural]

and ADAM SMASHER GOT THE RESPECT HE DESERVES

[rose thorn]

i completely forgto were auxilaries in HH?

[spare osprey]

i mean come on man, i want the Calibanite Jaegers to look cool. not like worse cadians

[crisp heath]

i can´t believe they made a whole show about edging though. kinda weird

[spare osprey]

wolfdawg did a good depiction

[mild rapids]

I really want to stay at your house hits different after edge runners

[crisp heath]

like don't get me wrong I enjoyed playing 2077 for what it was, the story missions and some of the side missions were really well done. but the open world was even worse than any open world made by Ubisoft. It just looked really cool, and that was it. It honestly made me start to dislike most open world games lol

like why bother making an open world if there's nothing to do in it

[crisp heath]

well, i played that game too and to me it just felt like (and it was probably objectively so) that there´s nothing to be done other than shooting people

it seemed like they were maybe planning on doing other cool stuff like visit bars but it ended up just being item vendors for essentially healthpacks that you click

i guess you could have sex scenes with prostitutes, apparently that was another thing

[winter vessel]

Driving down Watson listening to tunes, ready to do a gig. And then this song plays and I hit the brakes just to listen

[crisp heath]

other than that was there anything else?

[rose thorn]

YEA AUXIALRIES WER A THING IN HH

[crisp heath]

they advertised rpg mechanics like fluff mechanics and stuff that were in Witcher 3 lol. it's clear they couldn't implement most of what they wanted but advertised it anyway

[rose thorn]

why do iron warriors have 3?

[spare osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/human-shield-bds-gif-26026809

[mild rapids]

2077 has a good soundtrack,

[rose thorn]

burned through a whoel planet too lmao

i wonder do space marien auxilaries do operatiosn by them selves?

[crisp heath]

that too

but yea I fully expect Witcher 4 to be dogwater cause CDPR can't keep devs anymore

anyway back to 40k, who else has played Rogue Trader?

[crisp heath]

is it a lot better than inquisitor martyr? because i got that with the complete edition for 16€.

man that reminds me though that starting tomorrow, university is starting back again and i won´t be able to do warhammer anymore 😦 i will be in a state of war until like late april. i have multiple things like surgeries, exams and legal stuff that will all individually change my life depending on how they end, i´m not even joking. i´d rather be in 40k right now lmao

[crisp heath]

i haven't played martyr. but it is pretty awesome, though currently it's real buggy, it's an Owlcat release....I'd wait a few more months imo.

[crisp heath]

with "it" you mean rogue trader?

yeah even if i had the time i dont even have the money so i´ll wait at least another year

when it´s on sale

[crisp heath]

yea. i'd wait for it on sale imo.

[crisp heath]

do you think it´s enjoyable even for someone who doesn´t enjoy top down RPGs?

because for some reason, i can´t get into them. i´ll force myself into martyr but last time i tried it out i instantly got bored somehow lmao

could never get into something like diablo either. maybe i´m just not nerdy enough

[crisp heath]

Have you played Baldur's Gate 3? If yes, then maybe. It's a lot more complex and harder than BG3, and also not as well produced. It's a bit less "open worldy" outside of space travel although the narrative branches a lot

[crisp heath]

i might have played the demo of baldurs gate 2 when i was a child but idk

well i´ll end up buying rogue trader sooner or later anyways because i can´t get into any other fantasy universe than warhammer so i suppose the discussion is pointless anyway 😄

yea I'll say Rogue Trader nails the atmosphere and setting of 40k, the story and writing is pretty well done too. I think it needed another 6 months in the oven tbh, but it's ok if you don't mind a lot of reading and it looking like a game from 2003 lol

[storm jungle]

I dont think a game like Rogue trader needs ultra graphics to begin with tbh

literally everyone is here for the plot, and you already need to be ready to read a lot with CRPGs

[green loom]

Also it looks good compared to wrath

[storm jungle]

^

[rose thorn]

for me those portriats really carry the art design especially

[storm jungle]

100%

[green loom]

Portraits purdy

Goals too tbh

[rose thorn]

it scream like both 'this is waht htey look like'

and

'i spent a small village's yearly income for this painting'

[green loom]

Art piece like that would cost my debt in cash

[plush mason]

the portriat art has already become a stable of WH videos lol

they are all just so good

[tiny cipher]

this is a 40K weapon

ITS A FUCKING 1911

OH MY GOD

[normal light]

Some heavy stubbers are straight up M2 Brownings

Live with it

[tiny cipher]

we need a stubber that is just a fucking BAR

[tiny cipher]

why would i complain about a 45. being in 40K

[normal light]

Nah I don’t mean you are complaining

[tiny cipher]

ah sorry about that i thought you were trying to say i was complaining

[storm jungle]

Actually I wonder

[normal light]

Understand, my wording is confusing

[storm jungle]

you can avoid paying a copyright to a weapons manufacturer if you just dont name the weapon after its IRL counterpart right

🤔

iirc thats what a lot of games actually do

[tiny cipher]

i think so right

[storm jungle]

yeee

which is funny but lol

well i guess the option for FS is there in that case if GW allows it

[tiny cipher]

they should just add this and call it the IXX Light Stubber

[normal light]

Auto pistol

Maybe

[potent karma]

Darktide is making me want to like the Inquisition... but then... I remember... the Months of Shame.

[tiny cipher]

its semi auto

[normal light]

Who knows what if I convert it like glock

And don’t say that I can’t

I will find a way

[tiny cipher]

only if you join the mechanicus or get boltered to the back of the head for tech heresy

[normal light]

Nah they would not know about this till the day comes

[normal light]

Also yeah Cawl is somewhat heretek

[storm jungle]

The Inquisition and the Inquisitors in charge no matter how "nice" they usually try to be, you'll basically always end up committing some sort of atrocity

its basically the perpetual joke of their entire profession

[normal light]

There is no other way around

[storm jungle]

Yep.

[normal light]

Like with chaos

[storm jungle]

like as an Inquisitor your job is a thankless one and will always get worse and worse

[normal light]

You either become mutant

Die

Or

Become daemon

[potent karma]

What ever happened to Annika? Was she basically banished from Fenris?

[storm jungle]

No lore beyond the novel.

She disappeared into the realm of 40k side characters

[potent karma]

Probably still banging that reformed cultist.

[storm jungle]

[potent karma]

I laughed when Hyperion walked in on them.

[storm jungle]

it was pretty great

the mid 2000's 40k novels just have such a different but cool vibe

[tiny cipher]

ladies and gentlemen, the CMMXI Stub Gun!

[potent karma]

[normal light]

Good but I have different opinion

[tiny cipher]

lets hear it lad

[tiny cipher]

is that an inlore gun?

[normal light]

No

But would be funny to see it

[tiny cipher]

then it likely won't be added

[normal light]

In lore

[tiny cipher]

oh very

[normal light]

It’s soviet 50’ handgun

Made for 9x18 mm

8 round in magazine

[tiny cipher]

makarov?

[crisp heath]

9x18mm in 40k elemayyo

[normal light]

Indeed

[potent karma]

Can already see the Mechanicus getting hard at seeing a "most ancient and venerable" design.

[crisp heath]

Lol I'd love to see a laz or maybe bolter version of a Tommy gun lolol

Preferably the old Churchill mob variety with the round drum

Lol this was pulled from Google, its royalty free. But tell me this don't look 🔥 af

[outer wave]

Thats just Curley after getting tired of Moe's schtick

[velvet imp]

think of them like the Spartans of Cadia

[rose thorn]

Thee is a laz tommy gun In the cadia boxes

If i can find it

[rose thorn]

My bad it’s an auto gun

[queen lark]

@summer mural harakoni Warhawks

[velvet imp]

closest thing to that is the Storm Bolter

[green loom]

Tempestus also use grav chutes

If I recall

[crisp heath]

Lol@rose thorn @velvet imp both are awesome guns, but they just don't have that Tommy magic lol

[earnest snow]

FS really needs to bring in admech related stuff just so I can blast robot prince of autchertool in my ears while playing DT

and feel fantastic

[sacred ginkgo]

Is it just me or does it feel like the storm bolter would damage its own grip

[potent karma]

So even with Guilliman pretty much in charge, how fragile is the Imperium still?

[queen laurel]

Like the people in this chat said, guilimann and lion are standing on the rotting carcass of a dead ship somehow still sailing

The imperium is way to self destructive to be maintained

[potent karma]

So it really is only a matter of time when that ship just sinks?

[tulip brook]

Worse half is free for all, good bad half is getting attacked by bugs atm

[queen laurel]

Yes lion and guilimann are just finding ways to keep it a float

[potent karma]

I will chuckle if a leak gets out about the "Imperial Truth"

[tulip brook]

What kind of leak? There are like only 2 people left believing it

[potent karma]

Or people just starting to question the faith (more openly and without repurcusions)

[tulip brook]

They always do. Repercussions depend on your proximity to the nearest zealot

[queen laurel]

With the way the imperium is yes, even if they achieved total victory against chaos, you will have to fix the absolute s*** that is the imperiums way of life

[potent karma]

Imagine the shitstorm if Guilliman decides to essentially legalize that you don't have to worship the emperor

Although I suppose "shitstorm" would be an understatement

[tulip brook]

Chicken and egg situation. They can't fix 10k years of rot, they can't win against chaos without doing it. They can't do it because they're fighting against chaos.

[radiant lance]

The cult is actually really useful especially the part where it just makes a warp god out of the Emps

G man hates the cult, but he's accepted it's useful

[tulip brook]

Girlyman decided to roll with it after dark imperium. Lion doesn't care about ruling and he's only there to protect people

[queen laurel]

As much as how stupid the cult is it's worship of the emperor has allowed many people to move forward and see light

Hope is very useful

[potent karma]

Pretty sure there are Imperial worlds out there that don't necessarily worship the Emperor but still acknowledge him as their head of state

[radiant lance]

And just hilarious super powers that happen with the sisters

Does the G Man even fully comprehend what the warp does with thoughts?

[green loom]

No one does

Though Eldrad might know a thing or two which he might've shared with Guilliman

[radiant lance]

Like, I think curious if anyone knows or has an idea that Empy-man is becoming a god with all this focused worship

[tulip brook]

BigE and Magnus had a decent comprehension and they both decided to go hush hush about it

[radiant lance]

I'd imagine at least one of the primarchs would just decide "fuck yeah we need a warp god"

[green loom]

Per the eldar, it doesn't matter

"he already plays god, and can pass, what's the difference?"

[tulip brook]

Same stuff with Bile, it is implied the road to ascension isn't exactly voluntary

[radiant lance]

Keeping the true nature of the warp secret seemed like some sort of attempt to starve it

[tulip brook]

Or something in the line of: nobody knows about it and don't actively try to influence it and it's still this unpredictable and wild, maybe it's not a good idea to let everyone stir it.

[potent karma]

Post-Rift, would it be unreasonable to wonder if the influence of the Cult Imperialis has weakened greatly?

[crisp heath]

@potent karma @queen laurel someone was questioning whether the imperium would inevitably die or not under guilliman and the lions leadership. While there are a number of factors to consider, at the top of the list being whether other primarichs also return, the ongoing subplot of the emperor, (which does exist, there is definitely an actual plot to the emperor and what he will be doing in the future if we go off the last horus heresy book, and it won't just be sitting on the golden throne forever it seems.) But also, there is the very real rot that has set into the Imperium, both of the mind and spirit and planet. The populace is worn and downtrodden, their belief system has flipped from a logically sound, factually based society into a self annihilating religious zealot state. On all sides they are surrounded by advanced, separate species who want their annihilation, subservience, or sacrifice. Each of which very capable of enforcing such whims of fancy. And, on a side you can't see, for its within and beside you always, are very real edlritch entities wanting to claw their way out the brains of that odd cousin of yours to wreak legitimate catastrophe on whoever is near. For millenia, the imperium has been a cornered, dying animal warring against the dying of the light, brutally mauling anything that gets too close. It is the bleeding rhino, blind and on a rampage of survival.

None of which touches upon the tyranids, which at this moment are devouring whole sectors of space, have infiltrated most if not every planet with genestealer cults, and likely are calling in a much larger force from outside the galaxy. From which the imperium and likely anything else biological will have absolutely no chance against

[native charm]

but Big E is slowly healing/reviving?

[crisp heath]

Not necessarily

More the star child theory was confirmed

[potent karma]

The Golden Throne is actually degrading IIRC

[tulip brook]

That one book with deldar they said throne will fail in a couple hundred years, which is 10 mins in 40k time

[native charm]

wonder which Loyalist primarch GW will bring back next? Stay tuned and see you in another 10 years lol

[tulip brook]

I can bet my money on Russ

[potent karma]

Oh... I do know that the Grey-Knights do not worship the Emperor. I remember reading a part from the Emperor's Gift.

[crisp heath]

@tulip brook they also were implied to be lying somewhat and manipulating the imperium

Because they're, well, dark eldar

[tulip brook]

W/e I don't think that plotline will go somewhere soon

[arctic talon]

It won’t

[burnt maple]

Anybody, but Russ. The last thing the Imperium needs is a drunk cretin with unsatiable bloodthirst and glory seeking.

A raving lunatic, gullible and foolish like Russ.

Unless he learnt his lesson by now. 10k years should be enough.

Lion did learn, after all.

[earnest snow]

We should get a dance room in the mourningstar so we can listen to the latest imperial gothic bangers. Thoughts?

[crisp heath]

... lol Khorne over here like "Oooh, late addition?" lol.

And to everyone that says Russ would never fall to chaos because he hates chaos, I give you Perturabo. Russ literally is so rageful and bloodthirsty, khorne would and should fairly easily get inside him and warp him a bit. And we all talked about that slippery slope already. Lol Russ absolutely has a chance to falling to chaos. (Mostly said just to bother the people that think all the loyalist primarchs are somehow just paladins now who can't be tainted)

[burnt maple]

He would be too proud. Perturabo is not serving Chaos. He is using it, weaponizing it in a way nobody before tried to.

What he does makes the Word Bearers cry blood out the sheer soyjak energy.

[crisp heath]

I'd rather the old parkour shit from vermitide

That was fun between matches

[crisp heath]

He likes to think that's the case

[earnest snow]

To be infallible to chaos you gotta be a brick wall, but not the kind that Imperium has become. One that kinda curves and what not. Idk what wall would be curvy, but you gotta be that. Handle each situation in its own way while not falling to chaos. Guilliman has been managing this pretty well considering he had a "Wake up, day ruined" moment upon seeing the state of the imperium

[burnt maple]

I pray for Rogal Dorn's return.

[earnest snow]

All we need is his hand nothing more

Resurrect the hand

[crisp heath]

I do agree though he shits on the word bearers lolol

[crystal forum]

we all know deep down that ferrus manus is next

the most important primarch

[burnt maple]

Vulkan ❤️

[crystal forum]

i hope vulkan comes back half ork

[coarse pumice]

I just got to the section with ||the captured farseers|| and it makes me wonder when someone will have enough guts to do something like that to space marine chapter masters in some story sometime

Or I guess captains now

[coarse pumice]

They all say this but in the end they’re still just slaves to darkness and the lost and the damned

[drifting jacinth]

A lot of people thought they could use chaos without being used by chaos and so far all of them were wrong

Perturabo is a bog standard chaos warlord in that aspect

[dusk patrol]

My brother in Christ he’s literally a daemon prince

He’s a slave to darkness like all the rest

Delusion that he’s not is just more proof that he’s just one of them to

[drifting jacinth]

The Exalted literally said that while being possessed by a tzeentch daemon

[dusk patrol]

Delusion that they’re not enslaved to chaos is by far one of the most common traits of champions of chaos

[burnt maple]

You are correct.

[dusk patrol]

Bile and Ahriman constantly insist in their books that they’re not serving their god too

[drifting jacinth]

Bile is arguably the one exception cause he can use his atheism as well as corpse worshippers use their faith in big E iirc

[burnt maple]

Well, while I can lean towards these two not serving chaos gods, Peter Turbo is a slave and his sons probably hate him. Or should.

Then again, patron of the Iron Warriors is neither of the four gods.

[dusk patrol]

He can’t, it’s a delusion

He’s literally one of Slannesh’s greatest champions

[drifting jacinth]

Ahriman 100% serves tzeentch, doing so by accident is kinda tzeentch's whole thing

[dusk patrol]

The gods don’t care if you’re willingly serving them or think you are

[drifting jacinth]

Didn't he banish a daemon by basically "nah nah nah can't hear you" at it hard enough ? Or is that memey word of mouth

[summer mural]

he just ignored it lol

[drifting jacinth]

Haven't read his books, I need to at some point

[summer mural]

" THERES NOTHING THERE"

[dusk patrol]

Doing that to one daemon doesn’t mean he’s immune to chaos

He’s delusional and strong willed

[drifting jacinth]

Being able to banish daemons by telling them to fuckoff points to him not being a chaos follower imo

[dusk patrol]

Hes still corrupted to hell and serving slannesh hard

[drifting jacinth]

Even if he ends up serving chaos in a roundabout way

[drifting jacinth]

Does he have any mutation we know of ?

[dusk patrol]

It’s not roundabout

He makes shit for them all the time

He’s constantly in the eye, he’s seen a small part of slannesh directly

Which he had an extremely hard time wrapping his head around

[drifting jacinth]

He makes shit for chaos worshippers but lots of people do near the eye without being full on worshippers

[dusk patrol]

He’s not near the eye

[drifting jacinth]

I know

[dusk patrol]

He’s in it, working with the biggest players

[drifting jacinth]

He's a big player

[dusk patrol]

And those people don’t go untainted either

[drifting jacinth]

Being tainted =/= being a worshipper

[dusk patrol]

It doesn’t matter if you worship, he is worshipping slannesh through his own works

It doesn’t have to be intentional

[drifting jacinth]

Agree to disagree

[dusk patrol]

This is just how it works, have you read his books?

By the end he’s unintentionally made himself a object of worship in the warp because his new men worship him

His back pack is a sentient mutated machine which lays eggs of itself and gets more and more corrupted overtime

He constantly employs a shitton of the most mutated and corrupted EC marines and improves them as payment typically.

[queen laurel]

and of course even if you don't worship chaos, just doing things that empowers them is often enough to get their attention

look at farsight

a honourable commander and leader

[dusk patrol]

And he’s a damn Tau

It’s insane he’s able to draw their attention

[queen laurel]

getting slowly corrupted by the god of war

[queen laurel]

yeah his soul is pretty weak

[tulip brook]

Abaddon saying he's using chaos meanwhile most corrupted csm around him can't stand his corruption

[drifting jacinth]

I love when Abaddon is described as being genuinely half-daemonic through pure condensed chaos goodness

[severe sandal]

I like how if a primarch rolled up it would be the equivalent to that one image of a chimpanzee being thrown around by a gorilla

[viral axle]

Did the emperor knew the horus heresy and everything that followed it as result of it was gonna happen?

[severe sandal]

Yes, and no

Malcador said something that suggested a civil war was planned (likely to clean out many of the space marines and hostile/bad primarchs ex: Angron)

[viral axle]

For some reason I thought the Big E can see into the future

[severe sandal]

No not really

If he could then he wouldn’t be on the throne right now

[viral axle]

True

[severe sandal]

We know this wasn’t planned (and he didn’t foresee the current situation) because of his talk with Gulliman, he’s clearly in a state of distress and begging it’ll work out

“My only hope” I think is one of his actual lines

[dusk patrol]

He describes it as seeing a mountain in the distance. You see the end goal but you don’t see all the dips and dangers hidden in the mists between you and your goal and if you’ll be able to reach it

[summer mural]

so

how exactly did Horus manage to injure the big E himself so badly that it would have killed him

Big E has all kinds of Big E buffs, and is also a perpetual

and he also went exterminatus on Horus

so whatd he do? stab him with his claw?

roll a 1 in a million crit?

[tulip brook]

Patience, we will learn soon™️

[summer mural]

disgusting

unacceptable

[tulip brook]

They haven't published part3 yet

[summer mural]

I hope they make that sanguinius fan theory true

[tulip brook]

Hawk boy got bodied real bad

We know up to this point

[summer mural]

that sang injured the Big E in his blood rage and Big E didnt stop him in time because he's his son, and the black rage was just sang realizing how badly he screwed up

of course, thats probably never gonna be canon

but its a cute theory

[tulip brook]

Nope, horus destroyed him and big e hasn't arrived yet

[summer mural]

I havent read those books

Il get to them..sometime

[tulip brook]

Early lore was big e held back believing horus can be redeemed until he couldn't

And yeeted horus' soul to nonexistence

[summer mural]

molech is canon right

where horus went into the portal and got a load of buffs

after the chaos gods tested him for like a gajillion years, but was really just minutes in realspace

[spare osprey]

Could be anything tbh

I always imagined it like what Luther did to lion

Sorta just

Threw the warp itself at his face