Not a single soldier amongst their lot etc
#40k-lore-chat
verbal path
umbral nymph
Theyre basically conscripts that do garrison duty
While Mobians are trained troops that the Emprium sends out
dusk patrol
Yes and I’m saying sometimes it’s pdf sometimes it’s guard who are with us
The guard is the best of the worlds pdf typically
The distinction I imagine doesn’t matter much anymore for Atoma also as far as whose fighting with who
crisp heath
There's no intercross between them? Most militaries have some movement between their forces. Like an army grunt can go to sniper school and get deployed with the navy sometimes, or vice versa. Militaries can mix
dusk patrol
It’s just a mix, Grendy probably has overall command and delegates as needed
dusk patrol
There's no intercross between them? Most militaries have some movement between t...
It varies
But typically they select the best pdf and form regiments
green loom
You can see the white line on some Scab units also
spring cairn
friendly guards are from the moebian 21st
green loom
We're about to get cosmetics for the 21st as well
dusk patrol
Yeah
umbral nymph
Yes and I’m saying sometimes it’s pdf sometimes it’s guard who are with us
Havent heard them outright mention that mobians are attached. Maybe the ones in Chasm Terminus with the Leman Russes are one of those that would actually make sense
dusk patrol
The audio logs mention them to
umbral nymph
Huh color me corrected then
dusk patrol
I will not smh
spring cairn
no pdf as far as we know
dusk patrol
I hate coloring
umbral nymph
I hate coloring
dusk patrol
There’s pdf mentioned sometimes but idk if we ever see them
Probably not having a good time
As is the natural state of pdfs
spring cairn
they probably either defected to the 6th or intergrated in the 21st at that point
dusk patrol
Yeah
At this point the imperium forces are likely a hodgepodge under Grendyls command
dire apex
Or took heavy casualties from the cult of admonition
spring cairn
21st seem fairly competent
umbral nymph
I've always assumed they were PDF forces as how much the Cadian and Professional shit talk them so much for not being actual soldiers. Which is pretty common for Guard to distinguish themselves from PDF forces. Not that theres much diffirence when facing chaos.
spring cairn
according to the new cosmetic description they're reputed for their campaign on some ocean world
dusk patrol
Yeah they’re not bad at all
The 6th is just like
Legendary
They have a ton of really really good gear
Lots of Ogryns
They’re very well equipped
Plus chaos
umbral nymph
Guess the 21st got the better end of the deployment stick. Facing down probably rebels or Xenos in some Ocean world rather than the 6th facing chaos all the time
winged jacinth
The 21st are probably an excellent marine regiment
dusk patrol
The 6th have also been embroiled in holding back whatever the Darktide is for god knows how long so they’re combat hardened and proven as fuck.
winged jacinth
But they've been stuck in urban warfare
spring cairn
6th got probably called to atoma in support of the uprising sponsored by one of the noble house rival to the one in power
dusk patrol
It’s heavily implied this was all planned I thought
spring cairn
nobles are the real vilain in dt
dusk patrol
The cult and the 6th
umbral nymph
The 6th have also been embroiled in holding back whatever the Darktide is for go...
The Mobian 6th blogpost said the "Darktide" is just a catch all term for Atoman's for any outside force trying to invade their sector
Like a boogeyman
dusk patrol
Yeah but there’s a specific like zone they’re defending from
umbral nymph
Easier propaganda for recruiting
dusk patrol
I imagine it’s just chaos forces
But what the nature of them is, who knows
Regardless it’s still an endless war against whatever
That they’ve been known to fight for a long time
umbral nymph
Yeah chaos probably took the Darktide motif for themselves, also for better dramatic effect
remote blaze
The Darktide is the endless xenos and chaotic horrors constantly assaulting the Atoman Subsector
dusk patrol
It’s like how the GG books just call the enemy “the archenemy” a lot of times
Just a generic catch all term
umbral nymph
"WE ARE THE DARKTIDE" or some form of that. Thats a pretty heretic thing to do
remote blaze
Wildspace be like that, or Frontier Space or whatever they're calling it this time
winged jacinth
I hope you like trenches
umbral nymph
Imagine an expansion where we actually push back the 6th back to their original lines and along with the 21st do strike missions helping them out in the trenches of their original battlefields
remote blaze
Then the Alpha Legion shows up and everything goes Alpharius
dusk patrol
i need a trench network map
That would be sick
spring cairn
vast semi open bunkers linked by narrow trenches where the poxwalkers trip on eachother
where you get a horde in front and behind
perfect
umbral nymph
vast semi open bunkers linked by narrow trenches where the poxwalkers trip on ea...
then a mutie wave just goes Wii Bowling on your whole team
remote blaze
Meanwhile let's check on the real Alpharius...no, he's still bodied.
arctic talon
So, no head
dusk patrol
So, no head
Suck one head off, two more rise in its place.
I’d like to apologize
In advance
forest orbit
Dilara marvel didn't invent greek mythology
dusk patrol
storm jungle
Yes they did, that's what the comics told me
forest orbit
storm jungle
dusk patrol
Yeah we clearly see Zeus in marvel smh
storm jungle
Lmfao christ
dusk patrol
Homer was a hack
storm jungle
I do like how Marvel legit ruined the image of most deities in fiction
dusk patrol
Hey now, some of them are dope
storm jungle
makes me glad stuff like God of War Ragnarok was actually doing original stuff
dusk patrol
Just not in their movies
storm jungle
True true
dusk patrol
Thor got to be cool til Endgame at least
forest orbit
"THOR SHOULD BE THIS BODY BUILDER BADASS"
Meanwhile my spirit animal fat thor from Ragnarok:
storm jungle
dusk patrol
That’s the “I can manhandle you and literally just barrel into you with my weight”
“Also I have a hammer”
dusk patrol
Still need to play it, waiting for PC
Have somehow managed to avoid spoilers
Besides some minor stuff
dusk patrol
Yeah I’m looking forward to playing it in indeterminate amount of time
storm jungle
spare osprey
https://tenor.com/view/thor-god-of-war-thor-god-of-war-ragnarok-mjolnir-thor-mjo...
ragnarok and that one YT story board are like my favorite depictions of Thor
dusk patrol
I like my Thor
versed ledge
Ever seen those videos of these hulking, mini ogryn, strongmen, slapping each other? Wonder how bad of a slap from tubs Thor will be?
dusk patrol
I suspect
And I have no real experience but I suspect
It would hurt
Actually I kinda do have experience but for legal reasons I don’t
forest orbit
https://youtu.be/-veBI_xVq24?si=XfvoGd_wqteDxC8Y
its the fact that this Thor design was ENTIRELY guess-work and is really close to what we got is even better, literally only the stuff that is missing is the rock chunks in his face
spare osprey
Ever seen those videos of these hulking, mini ogryn, strongmen, slapping each ot...
I mean I’ve seen one of a dude who’s basically a twig vs one of those dudes
versed ledge
I mean I’ve seen one of a dude who’s basically a twig vs one of those dudes
May he rest in pieces
dusk patrol
High school wrestling heavy weight was always amusing for that reason
Cause if someone was going to state the coach would make them wrestle the whole team in a row
From smallest to biggest
As a fun thing
spare osprey
May he rest in pieces
dusk patrol
And we had a guy in the 220 class who got through everyone
And then he got to the heavyweights
umbral nymph
Zola technically being under Alice to some degree is kinda hilarious
forest orbit
Its less under
more just Hallowette gets people stuff
do you piss off your local market person
umbral nymph
i know not under under, dont want to disrespect the crew of your UBER
spring cairn
Zola technically being under Alice to some degree is kinda hilarious
nah it's because hallowette is brham's
and they're all basically squatting her ship
rannick and all
dense salmon
https://tenor.com/view/thor-god-of-war-thor-god-of-war-ragnarok-mjolnir-thor-mjo...
Lore accurate thor
dense salmon
Utgard-loki challenged thor to a drinking contest in which he tricked thor into drinking a portion of the world's oceans
Thor is such an alcoholic he didnt notice the "mead" was ocean water
dusk patrol
That sounds like a terrible alcoholic
Every one I’ve know has definitely noticed when they’re not drinking alcohol
dense salmon
Lol
dense salmon
Im not much of a drinker but you could slip me soju or tequila and I might not notice
dusk patrol
lol
soft thunder
just noticed a new (to me) adhuman comment from our dear zealots. This time commenting on Neandors, from the fanatic. Agitator drops a mention of Pelagers. I wonder if judge knows an obscure abhuman reference as well?
soft thunder
ye
soft thunder
ya water ogryns more or less
dusk patrol
Atlanteans or whatever
soft thunder
just curious if judge mentions a random abhuman too
dusk patrol
I was find it unbelievable that these guys would know about all these different abhumans
Considering how obscure some of them are
Most I think have like one world there ever referenced to live on
soft thunder
eh, you can poke holes in it or justify if you want, but it's just for the audience at the end of the day
soft thunder
the agitator i kinda get, he's always trying to 1-up people and feel smart. So of course he would mention weird random stuff he read once in the archives or something and act like veryone else is simpletons for not knowing what a pelager is.
I imagine agiator was a 40k office worker
and Seer, well beloved knows all, so that justifies basically any out of game knowledge
remote blaze
None of those abhumans have been talked about since 1983 lol
They went deep places for the lore, good job Obese Fish.
soft thunder
indeed, they did the same thing in vermintide and that got me into the fantasy old world lore
dusk patrol
They also pop up as small mentions in some books
molten swan
the pelager is referenced by uhh the rogue trader guy iirc?
the one that went to the black fortress
green loom
I wonder if Grendyl will inherit the power of the founding titan
dusk patrol
molten swan
Maybe the vet will get some crazy like "looter" class and they can get a shotlas?
dusk patrol
Here’s hoping
molten swan
👀
dusk patrol
I want us to get funky
molten swan
stormtrooper is probably a given
green loom
They should add a revolver Easter egg where you can play Russian roulette when you're on 1 bullet
dusk patrol
It would probably just be a skill tree expansion for Vet
molten swan
so hotshot lasguns and laspistols, maybe plasma pistols and stuff like power swords / power fists etc
kinda suprised the vet doesnt have a power fist tbh
soft thunder
that's what their ogryn buddies are for
arctic talon
Lack of power fist
Might be because they don’t want to compete with thunderhammer or smthing
Idk
Or they don’t know how to give it like combos lol
arctic talon
Give them the trench club from killteam
echo vault
Top ten most satisfying animations (still the best fight scene in a warhammer+ show)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHlrflOtKnM
carmine swift
Wtf is the lore behind a zealot? Vets-somehow survived a battle, ogryns-big, psyker-magic, zealot-prays a lot?
echo vault
Wtf is the lore behind a zealot? Vets-somehow survived a battle, ogryns-big, psy...
Zealots are just fanatical flaggelants of the imperial cult
What gets them in trouble is when they're too fanatical and think stuff like "Navigators are heretical" and that can cause issues
carmine swift
do zealots actually wield faith in the lore? like raising a holy cross and burning heretics?
echo vault
do zealots actually wield faith in the lore? like raising a holy cross and burni...
every single spanish inquisition stereotype possible
to the maximum
there's definitely been a couple times in the imperium where zealots claimed key important imperial organizations were heretical (Mechanicus, ordos xenos, navigators aka the pilots of most ships)
arctic talon
do zealots actually wield faith in the lore? like raising a holy cross and burni...
Yeah, the player character zealots also seem to have gotten their hands on an actual holy relic
One way or another lol
echo vault
so you don't want a horde of enraged angry zealots wanting to chop your navigator into peices thinking they're an alien when in fact killing them would send the entire ship into hell
or getting too upity to the mechanicus delegation and your church groups of crazy people with hammers turn into a servitor colony
storm jungle
do zealots actually wield faith in the lore? like raising a holy cross and burni...
Yes, they can do lots of faith related abilities in lore
dusk patrol
Also its a game so some of that is just representative of them like bolstering morale or whatever
Like when they guardsmen shouts and everyone gains bonus toughness
storm jungle
Its very much tabletop-esque yeah
where literally anyone can do weird magical/stat-boost shit out of nowhere.
GW also is behind the approval of new skills and such too so if it has their patent then it adds up
river kite
That shit looks like bionicle
desert dust
do zealots actually wield faith in the lore? like raising a holy cross and burni...
In the book series where Gman fights his brother pus man they have a old priest with no psyker powers lead army of people into a part of the world that nergel corrupted to the point your flesh will melt off and your lungs will liquefy and stab everyone to death.
So apparently the rifts letting the emperor buff more people.
vale fjord
I wonder why grendyl didn't bother sending in the grey knights but use rejects to purge the heretics and the daemonic presence in atoma (lore wise I know it's a gameplay aspect)
winged jacinth
The grey knights only answer to Ordo Malleus
As a hereticus inquisitor its likely grendyl doesnt know they exist
Also there's only like 1000 of them for the whole galaxy if they follow codex standards
dire apex
dont think they follow codex standards but there is less than a thousand of them
arctic talon
they were just over 1000 when the great rift opened 
but they're all over the fucking place rn
winged jacinth
Its honestly a failure of scale that gk are ever in the right place lol
With how long getting around takes especially
dusk patrol
We typically see the worst areas in 40k so that’s the main reason
Plus they can divine the future to some extent
winged jacinth
That's true i guess there's the emperors tarot
dusk patrol
That typically how the Custodes preventing stuff is explained too
winged jacinth
Same way the legion of the damned probably work
dusk patrol
They get visions in dreams and also use alpha level astropaths who receive messages from the future
And the Eyes of the Emperor network
dire apex
they were just over 1000 when the great rift opened <:Ancestral_Trolling:8566588...
Of course great rift opening means they have a whole ton more Psyker candidates
vale fjord
Idk man
I've been thinking about whether or not the evisc weapon is the space marine sized chain sword for them
And comparing it to the chainsword the rejects have if a space marine wields it
I may be wrong tho
Still new to warhammer 40k stuff and I wanna learn more about it
winged jacinth
the line between dagger and sword was always kinda fuzzy, but the regular chainswords are fairly short as far as swords go even for baseline humans
marines are maybe 50% bigger?
vale fjord
marines are maybe 50% bigger?
I've been thinking how the eviscerator could be the space marine equivalent of a chainsword
Since a human has to hold it with 2 hands
A space marine could hold it with 1 as well as swinging it with 1 hand (until 2 hands are needed)
winged jacinth
i think the blades are probably similar with the rest being scaled for space marine hands
space marine chainswords are a variety of lengths depending on era, chapter, artist
era both in terms of lore era and publishing era
crisp heath
Seem to be pretty ubiquitous. They have chain axes and stuff for us, so small variants obviously exist in 40k. I would think the blade length doesn't matter so much as the grip length, and that would mean the eviscerater is the only one they'd view as a "space marine" chain anything. Though they'd likely think it's old or outdated or some other form of shabby
And size wise, I'd say the eviscerater is around the size of a short sword or machete to a space marine. Longer than your average dagger, shorter than your average long sword.
In comparison to the space marine, not us obviously
vale fjord
I see I see
If we take all that to account and going back to my question, then the answer is yes the chainsword is a chain dagger to a space marine
crisp heath
🤷♂️ pretty sure it's longer than a bowie to them, but sure
winged jacinth
the size is about right but they wouldnt be able to use the controls and the handle would be tiny
space marine hands are hueg
grave sparrow
ok, so I dunno if I've seen this take before.
But if Ferrus Manus somehow comes back, bringing the Iron hands back into the setting would be dope.
The mechanicus apparently really liked the IH so it'd be super fun to see astartes with some nutso cybernetic augmentations and insane terminator armor variants
vale fjord
space marine hands are hueg
True
vale fjord
🤷♂️ pretty sure it's longer than a bowie to them, but sure
A dagger doesn't have to be as small as a dagger
There's like really long ones that shouldn't be considered a dagger
winged jacinth
the iron hands are one of the few chapters / legions i quite like
vale fjord
Idfk why it's considered a dagger but it is a dagger
winged jacinth
things considered daggers extend well into the territory of what also gets considered a shortsword
crisp heath
Literally stop there is a term called outlier for a reason.
winged jacinth
its not really a technical term, like basically everything else in weaponry
crisp heath
I'm literally going to math why your wrong
grave sparrow
I thought the Eviscerator was just a type of chainsword that used similar technology as power swords (someone said each tooth has a crude displacement field)
winged jacinth
the primary trait of eviscerators is that they're two handed, iirc depending on source all chain weapons use low grade power fields
to be frank they wouldnt be much use if they didnt
vale fjord
Right I forgot they added in New morrow and Wolfer dialogues in assassination missions (I may be wrong cuz I haven't played the game months before the traitor curse part 1 upd)
green loom
Yeah they're new
A wolfer comment or two made it in with the class overhaul on the train assassination
But now he has proper dialogue there with Morrow
vale fjord
I need more morrow and wolfer interactions
winged jacinth
because i made all 4 of my characters back in the beta or shortly after launch, when i came back and heard those lines i had NO idea who wolfer was lmao
vale fjord
Especially wolfer coping and in denial about his traitor captain losing to 4 crackhead ex prisoners
crisp heath
If the average dagger is five to twelve inches, and the average short sword is 2 to 2.5 feet, and we convert those measurements to metric cause gw is European, 13 to 30 centimeters and 61 to 76 cm, and the average human is 1,80cm while an average space marine is 2,20cm, we can actually average what category it should fall into. The eviscerater is a huge two-handed weapon that can run almost two meters in length, with a long grip and weighted pommel to allow for some semblance of balance in use. So, with all that in mind, it well and truly is a great sword for us. It's three times the size of a short sword at 6 feet long. And a space marine is only 2 meters tall himself. Do you know of any daggers near your own length?
vale fjord
Interesting
winged jacinth
the original position was that regular chainswords were dagger scale for SM
winged jacinth
which was followed with eviscerators being sword scale
yes i said that
the enemy vox stuff is all so good
im glad they decided to make it canon that you're actually as horrifyingly effective as in gameplay
vale fjord
Yea
green loom
To small of a hilt
That's what she said
vale fjord
I'm still bummed to see dead ogryns tho
winged jacinth
only in death does duty end
vale fjord
That's what she said
winged jacinth
eating rashuns with the emprah
winged jacinth
i dont know if i've ever heard of an old ogryn
i wonder what that's about
probably its just that we only ever see active guard ogryns
vale fjord
An elder ogryn mmm
crisp heath
Think because they're abhumans, its a combination of poor treatment and sickness that they die before old age
Could be wrong though
grave sparrow
Oh wise Ogryn of the mountain, how do you find true happiness?
"breakfast rashuns, SAH!"
green loom
*probably* its just that we only ever see active guard ogryns
You rarely see them
winged jacinth
Think because they're abhumans, its a combination of poor treatment and sickness...
if that's the case at least some ogryns would get old considering how many there are, but we still wouldnt see them probably
queen laurel
Is there ever a topic abt who's the *smartest* ogryn?
Cassia
winged jacinth
the smartest known ogryn is Cassia
vale fjord
Ooo
queen laurel
Psychic ogryn that has a diary and can read
winged jacinth
shes a sign of interesting things to come
vale fjord
That's pretty neat
winged jacinth
we had all that lore about people who think perpetuals are the next stage in human evolution when its really ogryns
vale fjord
And im guessing the only ever pysker ogryn ?
winged jacinth
who wants to live forever when you can be ogryn
vale fjord
who wants to live forever when you can be ogryn
True
winged jacinth
the only one we know of
vale fjord
Luv me emprah
crisp heath
Not the only ever. Necromunda has had some for awhile
crisp heath
She's the first natural born awakened
winged jacinth
they werent smart i dont think
crisp heath
But there's likely more not documented
winged jacinth
the necromunda ogryn psykers were made surgically for reference
queen laurel
they werent smart i dont think
The Necromunda ones are smart are enough to give themselves augments and implants
I say they are pretty damn smart
crisp heath
They're just drug made
winged jacinth
i thought the house that made them did, i havent had the chance to play necromunda
queen laurel
Being psychic seems to have the ability to increase intelligence
crisp heath
That's their only difference I think
queen laurel
i thought the house that made them did, i havent had the chance to play necromun...
Nope they're actually rebelling because a smart ogryn is a dangerous ogryn
That's why the imperium systematically keeps them dumb
crisp heath
Literally smart psycher ogryns are master race lol
queen laurel
Literally smart psycher ogryns are master race lol
Yeah i wouldn't want to fight something that can shoot lightning out of their hands and also have enough brute strength to physically tear off a tank gun and beat me to death with it
winged jacinth
its all an english plot to convince us that this is the ideal physical appearance
vale fjord
Aren't ogryns also physically stronger than space marines
winged jacinth
yeah
crisp heath
Oh yeah
queen laurel
Aren't ogryns also physically stronger than space marines
Yeah by a mile
vale fjord
I heard about how horus is the only one to kill a modified ogryn
Which I find really really funny
queen laurel
I heard about how horus is the only one to kill a modified ogryn
Those guys are Charonites
Can physically tear-off a bulkhead no problem
vale fjord
Man
crisp heath
Like suplex easily and walk away smiling r-word strength stronger
vale fjord
Thank the emperor they are dumb
winged jacinth
they were a little like ogryn eversors
vale fjord
A smart ogryn really is a dangerous ogryn
queen laurel
Man
yeah you wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a Charonite's augmented hands
winged jacinth
i wish i were in the mechanicus i would have so many cool projects to pitch
"we should give ogryn thunder hammers for hands"
winged jacinth
i would be the next cawl
primaris marines? how about primaris marines with thunder hammers for hands
crisp heath
Lol nobody is the next Cawl
vale fjord
Imagine being genetically modified and enhanced to become a space marine just to be beaten to death by a some child in a big body
crisp heath
The mechanicum already hates him
vale fjord
Now THATS humiliating
crisp heath
They'd kill anyone else that tried
winged jacinth
"we need to build titans that combine into a bigger titan... for... tactical flexibility?"
vale fjord
"we should give ogryn thunder hammers for hands"
Wouldn't they hurt themselves by accident (if ever the chance)
crisp heath
Cawl skirts around innovation by researching blueprints from the past, lol you are legit coming up with new ideas
winged jacinth
Wouldn't they hurt themselves by accident (if ever the chance)
no it would be good trust me
crisp heath
Unless you find some old power rangers DVD and a vcr or something to play it on lol
vale fjord
If you say so
queen laurel
Imagine being genetically modified and enhanced to become a space marine just to...
don't really blame them those so called "child"
Can drag a 38 ton Chimera no problem and suplex a Terminator
crisp heath
And convince your brothers it's a message from the omnisiah
winged jacinth
"guys i found an stc but i cant show it to you"
"it says to put thunder hammers on leman russes"
crisp heath
You seem pretty hooked on thunder hammers...
winged jacinth
i have chosen them as a bit
dusk patrol
I heard about how horus is the only one to kill a modified ogryn
Tons got killed during the heresy
They were just dangerous
crisp heath
Lol I was just curious if you legit thought they were like, the best weapon or something lol. No worries
dusk patrol
They were the IAs answer to marines in close quarters fighting
vale fjord
Lol I was just curious if you legit thought they were like, the best weapon or s...
No weapons really the best it all depends how hard you hit em
winged jacinth
it started out as "what's the least convenient weapon to replace your hands with"
dusk patrol
Specifically the Solar Auxilias
crisp heath
No weapons really the best it all depends how hard you hit em
Spoken like a true ogryn!!!
vale fjord
Yes sah!!!
crisp heath
Here's your 🌟
vale fjord
Man I love playing as an ogryn in the game
Gives me ogryn equivalent intelligence while playing as one
green loom
Cawl skirts around innovation by researching blueprints from the past, lol you a...
No he doesn't
He's a literal tech heretic
winged jacinth
i havent read any of the cawl stuff, he seems fun as lame as his role is conceptually
green loom
He doesn't research STCs, he tries to mimick their contents with his own knowledge
winged jacinth
i know he talks to a virtual cawl for fun and profit
green loom
It's not virtual cawl
He has actual faux clones of himself
And also of guilliman and an old friend of his that died after the Heresy
He also very actively seeks out and researches Xenos tech
burnt maple
Cawl is a maniac, true xD
green loom
Ye
dense salmon
And he had his mind wiped
So he could be even older
He's seen by a radical in the mechanicus but he's too old to give a fuck
Not to mention guilliman is the regent of the imperium
And gave cawl permission to innovate and invent
rocky gale
Yea, he also got permission from the Emperor to do basically whatever he wanted
dense salmon
Emperor had no qualms about technological innovations during the GC
Otherwise he'd be an even bigger hypocrite
green loom
He was even building up a group of sympathetic guys from the mech
And stocking up on weapons to kill em
dense salmon
Era indomitus is a breath of fresh air
rocky gale
Can't remember the exact wording but Emp tells him something like "Serving in my name you will break even my rules, but keep going"
dense salmon
The high lords are made redundant
SO now progress can actually happen
Mechanicus slowly but surely being more free-thinking
green loom
Can't remember the exact wording but Emp tells him something like "Serving in my...
That's probably xenos tech/warpstuff
dense salmon
Corrupt lord militant dead
brisk vine
I'm sure corruption won't pop back up as soon as Roboute is busy elsewhere
green loom
green loom
I'm sure corruption won't pop back up as soon as Roboute is busy elsewhere
The ones he grabbed actually went and killed the corrupt ones when he was away lol
celest dome
Ushoran ?
green loom
Ye
celest dome
He's bigger than I'd have though
green loom
celest dome
So that mean we have what, 2 or 3 Primogenitor back in AoS ?
dense salmon
The ones he grabbed actually went and killed the corrupt ones when he was away l...
Yeah the master of the assassinorum protected guilliman by assassinating the conspirator lords
Not that guilliman needed the protection lol
green loom
iirc the Administratum guy was in on it too
Cus the Minotaurs flipped to the loyalists at the end right?
queen laurel
Not that guilliman needed the protection lol
yeah he might not be the best at combat but he ain't no slouch either
dense salmon
As far as primarchs go?
Bottom 3 in a straight up fight
But he's still a primarch
Dude could bench press a tank
If guilliman punched me I'd turn into mist
queen laurel
But he's still a primarch
yeah compared to his brothers he is definitely on the weaker side when it comes to straight combat, but he still has the physique of a demi god so it doesn't really matter
dense salmon
Thankfully combat was never his talent
Bottom 3 in a duel would probably be lorgar, guilliman, and magnus in that order
Lorgar being the bottom
queen laurel
Bottom 3 in a duel would probably be lorgar, guilliman, and magnus in that order
Magnus at least has magic on his side so that's something
dense salmon
Yeah magnus sweeps most primarchs pre heresy
But in a duel he loses to most of them
He's physically very weak comparatively
But he could crush them like soda cans
dense salmon
Lorgar's a bottom you say?
He's used to being on his knees is all I will say
spare osprey
He's physically very weak comparatively
God there’s a quote in the lion book about that, was funny asf. Along the lines of “Now I know you’re a fake, Magnus could never hit that hard”
dense salmon
Hes purely an ego lifter
Those muscles are fake as hell
Still one or my favorite primarchs though
spare osprey
I really need to read up on the other primarchs
I just like leman and lions dynamic
Always felt the most realistic as brothers
dense salmon
Leman was also pretty chummy with malcador
Top 3 would probably be Kurze, lion, khan
Fulgrim and ferrus manus are honorable mentions there
rocky gale
You're leaving out Sanguinius?
dense salmon
He's also up there
As an honorable mention
But I'm talking in terms of pure duelist ability
It's a lot easier to say who the worst are than it is to say who the best are
spare osprey
True
rocky gale
Just seems a bit odd to not include Sanguinius in the top 3, like he's acknowledged by one of his brothers in one of the books to be the best fighter of the Primarchs, plus he can see the future and fly.
dense salmon
Magnus can crush almost all of the primarchs in an instant
Or atomize them
Sanguinius is a candidate for top 3 for sure but the hax abilities are hard to factor
Kurze is probably where there's wiggle room
He loses a lot of fights but is consistently described as an absolute nightmare to fight in a duel
storm jungle
Yeah Sanguinius is also like overrated af
he has also literal in-universe plot armor
mfer knows he is going to die to Horus so keeps throwing himself at every danger knowing he wont die
rocky gale
He's my perfect little angel
dense salmon
He got mogged
storm jungle
I found it entertaining
dense salmon
He could solo horus without the chaos creatine
But then again
So could a lot of primarchs
green loom
Kill primarchs! WOOOO! Crush their spines!!!!
rocky gale
mfer got his ass beat
dense salmon
Sanguinius was the definition of bent out of shape
green loom
I don't like the fandom wanking off exclusively the glorious ubermensch murderers
dense salmon
You gotta blame the authors
It appeals to like
Shonen and action comic enjoyers
Who just like to imagine strong fighters with everything else being secondary
storm jungle
30 HORUS CLONES
shadow plover
I don't care how strong the primarchs are, I care about their personalities
dense salmon
Pretty much all of them have the vernacular of a 15 year old who just finished their required reading
shadow plover
Yes 
shadow plover
they're all very flawed
fervent folio
Yo
rocky gale
they're all very flawed
Except for my favourite of course
fervent folio
I have a question regarding the lore of 40k
Trazyn the infinite has the greatest collection of artifacts in 40k yes ?
Given that you somehow manage to track both him and his planet down
would he give you a tour if you asked ?
rocky gale
If you managed to find it and gain access he would probably keep you as a trophy
urban spire
if i had to fight a primarch i would simply vomit acid and bile on them until they melted into goo
storm jungle
would he give you a tour if you asked ?
Yes but Trazyn would probably forget you are a human who has basic needs like food/rest and you'd just tire out and die
But if you are this person with lots of resources/determination to find him for a tour he might actually put these into perspective and make sure you dont die during the trip lol
urban spire
if you manage to track both him and his planet down there's a decent chance you don't actually have basic human needs
dense salmon
You also have to consider why trazyn would be interested in you enough to do that for you
green loom
But if you are this person with lots of resources/determination to find him for ...
He'd probably do this if you pay him with fancy sruff 
shadow plover
Trazyn has given tours to people, the people were very scared though
green loom
Like Bile gave him a Fulgrim
fervent folio
Like Bile gave him a Fulgrim
XD
Thats a funny way of putting it
"Here, have a primarch"
dense salmon
Yeah if you have something trazyn wants it's no biggie
green loom
Basically how it reads tbh
storm jungle
Bile can just make em on a whim so it was not the biggest lost
dense salmon
Or if you are the something he wants
storm jungle
Or if you are the something he wants
this is also how Cawl almost ended up in his museum during the fall of Cadia
so Cawl instead sold out Creed who was about to die lol
fervent folio
That is another intriguing thing. How much "sentience" do you keep while in one of trazyns stasis fields ?
storm jungle
Uhhh depends on how generous he is
sometimes its literally like cryo-sleep, you got no idea whats going on
fervent folio
Like, do you KNOW ur trapped forever ?
storm jungle
other times you are fully aware
fervent folio
oof
storm jungle
Yeah now put this into perspective in setpieces he makes of battlefields and such
literally almost every person there is probably concious
green loom
Like, do you KNOW ur trapped forever ?
No
But he can keep you aware
Like his pet tech priest isn't kept aware
Nor a lot of his dioramas like the Sisters fighting Tyranids
rocky gale
Yeah now put this into perspective in setpieces he makes of battlefields and suc...
Imagine you're mid death, just trapped forever feeling that moment.
dense salmon
In the artefacts episode of hammer and bolter, he had those dark eldar and black legion goons in a time loop
storm jungle
thats actually an interesting thing to think about
what if hes like one of those miniature dudes who is like making a display where you are getting cut in half
storm jungle
In the artefacts episode of hammer and bolter, he had those dark eldar and black...
also yeah that twist was great
fervent folio
Imagine you're mid death, just trapped forever feeling that moment.
Oof, terrifying to think about
green loom
He had two sisters caught up in a set piece
fervent folio
I just bought the infinite and the devine on audible
gonna be interesting to listen to
green loom
One was a bride of the emperor from Vandire's time
Being posed as the other's sister
Who died in said setpiece
And her bits were used to restore/revive her sister
green loom
I just bought the infinite and the devine on audible
Look for the War in the Museum short story
Same author as Infinite
It should cover your interests
fervent folio
It should cover your interests
Noted. Thankyou ^^
dense salmon
Trazyn's actually a decent guy as far as 40k goes
I wont really call him nice or anything, but he's not into needless wonton destruction
storm jungle
He's also a bit of a product of his environment
dense salmon
He will absolutely demolish an entire system if it has cool shit he wants though
If you can look past that he's reasonable
Imagine a guy who will punch you in the face for one of those foil charizard cards but on a galactic scale
fervent folio
Yep
or doom thousands uppon thousands of eldari souls to consumption by slaanesh
Guy basically yoinked the only thing keeping a worldsoul alive from the eldari
(this audiobook is interesting)
Okay, another question. How come Horus wasnt described as horribly mutated ?
Like, usualy when one of the warp gods has an eye or their full gaze on you, you turn into something befitting that
right ?
I imagine their "Champion" being horus would turn into some kind of demonic abomination
wet sandal
I mean, not immediately
green loom
He had time
But he was undivided
He's kinda like abaddon
But more a flesh puppet than someone trying to balance the four
dense salmon
He did mutate, just not in an obvious and grotesque way
rocky gale
Mutation is also a coinflip sometimes
Like you can get skin as hard as iron or your neck now has a kneecap
dense salmon
The reason horus didn't become a daemon is because daemons are warp entities and a fragment of their patron God
They can only exist in realspace for a limited period of time
It would have been a nerf to horus in the context of a protracted war and siege
crisp heath
No he doesn't <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
Yes he does... idk where I read that at, but that's absolutely how Cawl gets around innovation, is by working around and researching ancient blueprints
dense salmon
A chaos undivided daemon would be a fragment of each chaos god, meaning no one God has a claim to them
For obvious reasons this could lead to problems for chaos
green loom
Did you read Genefather
His excuse is "Well they knew a lot so everything I discover was already discovered right?"
dense salmon
Lastly, horus became a living puppet for chaos
He was hardly himself
And he was slowly dying
More of a zombie of horus than the man himself
crisp heath
@green loom but still, he has gotten in trouble for his bs before. And his excuse is always some loop hole in the innovation bullshit. He doesn't actually invent anything new
green loom
Yes he does
He does it constantly
He gets away with it because half the admech likes him and he makes up excuses
crisp heath
No, he doesn't. Literally no. He uses old blueprints to remake old shit
The primaris are brand new, he had to invent entirely new organs
green loom
And because he's ten thousand years old and a war hero
crisp heath
He even named one after himself
green loom
No, he doesn't. Literally no. He uses old blueprints to remake old shit
@storm jungle Cawl makes new stuff on his own right?
crisp heath
And the primaris stuff is literally stated as having been Old Age advancements the emperor didn't implement.
He didn't make them
green loom
No?
crisp heath
Yes
crisp heath
Ok, well Cawl didn't invent it is my point
green loom
They're not from the old age, they're Selenar research that was saved
But beyond that, Cawl still had to experiment forever to actually make Primaris
And he made all their gear
There's no STC for marine gear
rocky gale
Is the "Cawl doesn't invent stuff" argument still happening?
crisp heath
Expirementing isn't innovation or invention
green loom
Is the "Cawl doesn't invent stuff" argument still happening?
For a self admitted lie it seems rather enduring huh
crisp heath
Still happening...?
Bro I went to sleep and just responded to what he said
Fuck off
rocky gale
It was a thing hours ago and now it's a thing again
crisp heath
Again, I fell the fuck asleep
rocky gale
You were wrong then and continue to be wrong
crisp heath
Fuck off
rocky gale
No need to be rude
crisp heath
Show one instance where he actually invents something
Coming from the mother fucker who hopped in here on some rude shit, I'll pass
green loom
Ok let me look up "Primaris" on the GW store
crisp heath
Cawl Inferior is probably a unique creation because it's a true AI but it does implement servitors and cogitators
Literally just said the advancements were from something else
crisp heath
Lol so he can make new versions of old things
green loom
Cawl Inferior is probably a unique creation because it's a true AI but it does i...
Guilliman inferior is also a fully functioning fascimila of Bob that's powered by a mishmash of human and xenos tech
rocky gale
The Assault Bolter didn't exist beforehand
storm jungle
<@166943308231344128> Cawl makes new stuff on his own right?
Only his biggest projects like the Primaris and other gene-stuff was made from pre-existing material.
80% of his other Products™️ are stuff he made on his own.
crisp heath
But bolters did
green loom
Yeah it's a self admitted lie as of genefather
storm jungle
he just has too much popularity points to be cancelled
green loom
He's LITERALLY on trial for it
storm jungle
^
crisp heath
But again, he doesn't innovate or invent. All of his "creations" are based on preexisting shit. Or blueprints from the dark age
green loom
Do you know what Innovate means
rocky gale
At this point I genuinely don't know if he's trolling
crisp heath
I love "Guilliman you should appoint me Archmagos of Mars"
"That seems like a bad idea"
"Ok go ask the machine that's literally a copy of my brain, he also thinks it's a good idea"
Show one thing he literally invents. That's not based off something preexisting
crisp heath
Any of his AI tech
green loom
Cawl inferior
crisp heath
Based off guilliman and ais, not exactly an invention
green loom
This is semantics and incorrect semantics at that
rocky gale
I show that he invents a new type of Bolter and the response is "But Bolters already exist"
Say for example you invent a new type of car that is fundamentally different to an old car, you've invented a new type of car.
green loom
I show that he invents a new type of Bolter and the response is "But Bolters alr...
But cars already exist
crisp heath
Literally just an ai. There are plenty in 40k, the mechanicus just hates them
green loom
storm jungle
No this is literal artificial intelligence
crisp heath
You didn't invent the car
storm jungle
that is fully sentient
crisp heath
You made a new model
storm jungle
yeah shocking
green loom
You invented your own car
storm jungle
no idea is original
green loom
A Car is a semantic field
storm jungle
you can still invent something new
crisp heath
And neither could have existed before Ford literally invented mechanical vehicles
rocky gale
You see the Benz Patent Motor Car is actually exact same as a Tesla 
crisp heath
Cawl is also currently working on a brand new anti-chaos superweapon based on blackstone
It's in the works but it's a new invention
storm jungle
Also in Genefather he literally tries to use any word/argument to prove that he doesn't invent, he "innovates" so that the Inquisition alligned techpriest in the audience doesn't arrest him.
rocky gale
And neither could have existed before Ford literally invented mechanical vehicle...
Ford?
You mean Carl Benz?
green loom
Dilara do you have some Emperor's Children art for me
storm jungle
which one
crisp heath
Also in Genefather he literally tries to use any word/argument to prove that he ...
This is literally what I'm talking about.
Cawl himself is a walking tech heresy
crisp heath
He uses loopholes and shit in their laws
crisp heath
He has heretical implants including stolen pieces of brains
storm jungle
This is like saying no the M1 Garand wasn't invented, it was the Chinese that made the first firearm so it doesn't count.
dense salmon
Things heating up in the lore chat
storm jungle
Which makes about as much sense lol
inventing is inventing, making is making
theres no "middle-ground"
storm jungle
Is any chaos stuff fine
green loom
How about broadly slaaneshi stuff
storm jungle
alrighty
crisp heath
Lol there is. Technically, the M1 garrand wasn't the invention of guns. China did invent them. Invention involves creating something entirely new, for example the first light bulbs or the telephone. Innovation, on the other hand, is the process of improving the existing creations or finding new applications for them. So there is a middle ground. Cawl, as far as im aware, has never made anything that was entirely new and original. All of his creations reimagine or in some way alter existing structures, which inherently isn't invention, it's innovation. He's not lying by saying that. He's just extremely anal in his words
plush mason
inventing is inventing, making is making
if he is using STCs then he isnt inventing. ofc that whole thing could have just been a lie
green loom
He isn't
iirc he explains that he tries doing them on his own before using the STC
And learning/improving on said STC
So
In other words
Textbook tech heresy
rocky gale
Did you know that if you google the definition of Invent the example phrase they use the word in is "He invented an improved form of the steam engine"
green loom
Ok ghost
rocky gale
Now I'm no expert but I imagine that implies Steam Engines were invented prior to this improved form
green loom
I'm gonna have to ask you to like
Maybe stop with the pointless baiting lol
rocky gale
I'm sorry I keep biting at this point
storm jungle
Any, looking for more chaosy stuff like this
green loom
Ty 
dense salmon
I think the argument is moot, cawl has permission from guilliman to do what he wants and the narrative is now centered around improvements and radical change in the imperium
Our term for invention doesn't necessarily conform to that
He's doing things that are new and unprecedented in the last 10k years
rocky gale
God the kakophoni with the gaping mouth is horrifying
green loom
I think I like EC a bit cleaner than other chaos marines 
Like AoS Hedonites
crisp heath
@green loom don't worry I blocked his punk ass. And honestly Venuz is correct
forest orbit
Our term for invention doesn't necessarily conform to that
It does tho.
hes literally inventing
its entirely why hes in trouble
why is this so hard to understand
green loom
I don't know why people think "sponsored by guilliman" means as much as it does
dense salmon
Im not disagreeing that he is inventing
I'm just saying the direction that warhammer is going is innovation
In my opinion, it's pointless to argue
Cawl will continue whipping up new shit
green loom
I mean it is, because Cawl literally admits to it and is on an actual trial for it which he's trying to bullshit his way through
forest orbit
Innovation and Inventing might be different but hes doing both lol
crisp heath
I just think cawl would make an excellent lawyer
forest orbit
I dont really think creating a fucking AI chatbot of Guilliman is "not inventing"
crisp heath
Cause he's technically not lying
dense salmon
Okay I see the meat of this issue now
green loom
It's like defending a robber in court who explains to you in detail how he broke into the place
But is saying he technically was let in because he threatened some dude's life
forest orbit
"This home owner tried to attack me when i was breaking into his house"
and the owner actually got sued
💀
what the fuck
dense salmon
The ai thing is explicitly tech heresy
But as for if he invents stuff or not
He emphatically does
crisp heath
Oh yeah. I mean of course
rocky gale
<@208317032729542656> don't worry I blocked his punk ass. And honestly Venuz is...
Wait am I the punk ass, they're referring to?
crisp heath
But not because he made it per se, just because of what it is.
@rocky gale yes, you are said punk bitch.
Fuck off
rocky gale
Oh okay, she/her by the way
dense salmon
But my argument about it being a moot point isn't necessarily that he is or isn't inventing stuff
crisp heath
Don't give a fuck what you got between your legs
dense salmon
Whether or not i believe he is doesnt change his narrative purpose
He is a force of change in the setting
That change is divisive
crisp heath
Oh I agree 100%
rocky gale
What did I do?
dense salmon
I think it's in everyone's best interest if we remain respectful in these discussions
rocky gale
I just joined an argument everyone else was having and wasn't being rude or anything
dense salmon
The part that makes what cawl is doing technoheresy is that he is extrapolating on ideas and principles beyond what the machine god left in the galaxy
But I would argue because he is deriving his tech from existing one (this doesn't mean he isn't inventing it) that it isn't technoheresy
crisp heath
You tried to come in here and complain about a discussion going on because you saw something about it a few hours ago, trying to get shit to stop and being rude, then turned around and told me to stop being rude when I told you to fuck off. People from all over the world are in this server and some of us sleep. I responded to where I was @'d when I woke the fuck up. Fuck you and fuck this pussy ass I wasn't doing anything bullshit. It was a cool discussion that nobody had to agree with me on, all the way up till you fucking joined. That's why you are a punk bitch
rocky gale
I literally wasn't being rude, I was just asking a question?
storm jungle
You tried to come in here and complain about a discussion going on because you s...
Alright that is quite enough.
crisp heath
Sure.
storm jungle
If you two got more shit to do take it to the DMs
rocky gale
I'm sorry if I'm being rude again, but I genuinly don't know what I did wrong
queen laurel
Oh for runts sake
dense salmon
Cawl is a pretty cool character
storm jungle
Hes a cool character but also a literal mary sue
at least most canon characters can kinda hide that lol
"Oh I can master necron tech now"
cool, thanks Cawl
queen laurel
"Oh I can master necron tech now"
Still not as bad as an average warhammer40k fan character
storm jungle
💀
dense salmon
There's a good chance cawl was present for the age of strife
But he had his mind wiped so we have no clue
Im glad he's not a full on grammaticus
Like a character that only exists for expositiob
But he does read like a fan character
dense salmon
Lol
winged jacinth
I missed the funny invention talk...
The last thing to be invented was the rolomite bearing in the 70s. Before that, it was the wheel
dense salmon
In this house, Belisarius Cawl is an inventor! End of subject!
winged jacinth
Everything else is just an inclined plane derivative
green loom
Fr ong
outer wave
Weird question: is it possible for a Khorne Berzerker to exist and yet has never managed to kill a fellow space marine? Imperial or otherwise
urban spire
yeah i reckon most space marines of any stripe have never killed another space marine
outer wave
Really? I'd have thought it was a more rare phenomenon
crisp heath
I would like to say... I'm an idiot... my reaction to @rocky gale was wrong... and I apologize for it.
winged jacinth
Sm vs csm combat is hugely overrepresented in the novels because that's what people want to see
outer wave
Ahhh fair fair
I remember thinking a year or so ago that the concept of a berzerker who utterly fails at killing a space marine due to bad luck would've been funny
winged jacinth
I wonder how many heresy era csm are still around
outer wave
Probably a few hundred thousand
urban spire
more than you'd think, but mostly because they have spent a lot of time in the eye where time doesn't pass the same
so they won't have experienced the full 11k years subjective time
crisp heath
yeah i reckon most space marines of any stripe have never killed another space m...
The two missing legions are calling lol
urban spire
i'mma leave em on read
winged jacinth
The heresy era marines killed loads of marines for sure but they're gone now mostly
crisp heath
Isn't one of them at least thought to have been taken out by the legions pre herecy
winged jacinth
Probably i think?
green loom
We dunno
urban spire
afaik there's no canon hard facts about them
winged jacinth
There's oblique references
arctic talon
one of them was discovered around the time Alpharius was
the other was pretty early on
crisp heath
Because horus is force choked by malcador for bringing them up, and what elite said
crisp heath
Lol
dense salmon
When it comes to the forgotten legions
They were blended into the other ones sans primarch
There's lots of snippets about them but not a lot thats hard and concrete
winged jacinth
There's a subject XI in the custodes cells, perhaps a primarch waiting for a poor quarterly earnings projection
Though it feels like they have enough shakeups going rn to save that potential
crisp heath
Idk what that is honestly
dense salmon
That'd be something cool
Not a primarch but constantin is primarch-tier
winged jacinth
Lol
crisp heath
🤣
winged jacinth
Those legions have always felt like games workshop's "pull in case of emergency" handles
dense salmon
Its also room for homebrew stuff
arctic talon
They're also just a funny Roman Legion refrence
winged jacinth
It's not really different from having an unknown primarch but i suppose
crisp heath
So like, on the topic of Alpharius and his brother. Like, can someone explain them and their whole deal?
winged jacinth
I don't think they'd have successor chapters considering they were missing well before the heresy but stranger things have happened
crisp heath
Cause I'm still kinda confused and I've watched like, 18 YouTube vids lol
arctic talon
So like, on the topic of Alpharius and his brother. Like, can someone explain th...
They share the same "soul"
winged jacinth
Oh boy the alpha legion
arctic talon
Alpharius was in command of the Legion
Omegon basicially was Alpharius's shadow/carried out his commands
Also no one really knew Omegon existed
during the heresy/Great crusade
other then Malcador and Big E
Some of the primarchs had suspicion that there were 2 of them, Lorgar, Leman, Magnus
are the 3 I can remember off the top of my head
crisp heath
Huh.... and why are they so... idk? Special?
arctic talon
well, they aren't really?
winged jacinth
Also no one really knew Omegon existed
Alpharius and omegon were small for primarchs so they could pass as marines iirc
crisp heath
Like, why do I hear them come up alot I guess
arctic talon
They're small on the primarch size
but their like primarch ability
made people think they were even smaller
crisp heath
Feels like everyone expects them to do something
arctic talon
They're mysterious
Alpharius's book literally ends with "I am Alpharius and this is a lie"
winged jacinth
They were like maybe double triple quadruple agents during the heresy
arctic talon
Omegon is alive still but he didn't have command over the Legion
winged jacinth
They're definitely full chaos now
brisk vine
Fun fact
arctic talon
Omegon is still a ???? situation
he might be the only living Traitor primarch to have not ascended
brisk vine
Alpharius has been the #1 most popular name in the Imperium of Man for 10,000 years running!
crisp heath
They're definitely full chaos now
Why do you say that?
dense salmon
Alpharius and Omegon specialized in subterfuge and information warfars
dense salmon
Alpharius was an avid student of malcador
winged jacinth
Why do you say that?
Ok i mean they could pull the "oh it was a 10000 year ruse" card but they haven't helped the imperium even once basically
dense salmon
So it's hard to pin him down and his exact nature and intention
crisp heath
I thought they were supposedly like double agents or something...
I didn't know they were chaos
dense salmon
I thought they were supposedly like double agents or something...
Yes? No? Both are technically true
crisp heath
I thought they helped the Imperium
winged jacinth
Back in the heresy, sometimes, but not really since
dense salmon
So some alpha legion members are like
Renegade
Not exactly loyalist but not chaos
crisp heath
But wouldn't that just make them the black whatever the fucks
dense salmon
Black legion?
crisp heath
Sure, idk. The legion of dudes still loyal from the traitor legions
arctic talon
Blackshields
but they're generally anti imperium
black shields in 40k are pro imperium
despite their uh parents
crisp heath
Gotcha gotcha
arctic talon
but the Alpha Legion had one of the highest Blackshield rates during the heresy
what happened to them after
The legion fucking imploded when Alpharius died
arctic talon
yes
we know Alpharius died for sure for sure
Omegon even comments on it
about how he feels like half his soul is missing
crisp heath
Huh... damn...
dense salmon
The night lords are in kind of the same category
But obviously they are the night lords
So
Brutalizing random people is still their bread and butter
Not at all loyalist but they're not chaos either
arctic talon
The biggest group of night lords drank the kool aid
Super hard
They’re led by a daemon prince rn
dense salmon
That's true
crisp heath
So my next question, is one of the loyalist primarchs a giant crow demon now?
arctic talon
But that sort of feels inevitable lol
arctic talon
So my next question, is one of the loyalist primarchs a giant crow demon now?
Not a demon, but corax can turn into some warp bird thingy yes
crisp heath
He can go back and forth? Wasn't sure if it was corvax or curze
arctic talon
As far as we can tell it’s temporary