in fact theyre the only spider that actually plans their hunts using knowledge from their environment
#40k-lore-chat
median marsh
crisp heath
Animals are not sentient. Sentience is the single distinction between us and animals. Capable of planning, and planning within the scope of what humans do, is very different. Anything capable of predation can plan.
median marsh
we dont truly know what makes one sentient
molten swan
its also important to remember what happens when the lesser creatures disconnect from the synapse of the hive, they literally revert to their animal instincts, I suppose you could consider the hivemind itself something more than an animal, but the creatures are just animals in the end
remote blaze
It's less of a Hivemind and more of an Overmind. But fancy scifi terms will be what they will.
median marsh
to my memory one of the more "thinking" forms of nids were Swarmlord and Norn Queens
unless they retconned a whole lot of things
crisp heath
we dont truly know what makes one sentient
Doesn't matter if we know what causes it. We know it exists because we all experience it. Sentience is the one thing we know separates us from the natural world around us, wherever or whatever causes it. Idc what you believe. I'm strictly atheist. But consciousness and sentience are the dividing line.
molten swan
Yeah, swarmlord is basically an individual iirc or something like it
remote blaze
They are nodes for the mind, just a relay point. The Swarmlord IS the Hivemind when it wants to get personal
remote blaze
Or when it wants to get its face melted off by Dante for plot
molten swan
either or lol
median marsh
Doesn't matter if we know what causes it. We know it exists because we all exper...
thing is just because animals cant "talk" (they can, their vocalisations are part of their own tongue) doesnt mean they aint sentient. Take Elephants for example, or even dolphins, they do almost all the things we do, use tools, form family bonds, hold grudges and so on
its an insanely complex topic and we dont really know that much about life to draw conclusions yet
tulip brook
or nids
brisk vine
Sentience isn't this concrete thing, given that we lack the means to communicate with other species
median marsh
we still dont know how a metric fuckton of living things operate
brisk vine
So it's not like we can compare notes
median marsh
some behaviors literally get observed once and never again
remote blaze
Hello hi Tyranid expert here
Do Norn Queens have feet?
short steeple
Do Norn Queens have feet?
No they are big flesh facilities
crisp heath
Until they act upon any thought in their heads, or begin performing complex tasks, or in any way show that sentience, then perhaps they have crossed that dividing line from being animals to sentient beings. That line is still there though
median marsh
birthing things
arctic talon
Do Norn Queens have feet?
I don’t think they can even move
remote blaze
Damn
crisp heath
We crossed it once upon a time
brisk vine
What line is that?
median marsh
think of norn queens like Alien Queens
short steeple
They are stuck inside hive ships and if they need stuff doing they have the norn emissary for that
brisk vine
Again
brisk vine
It's not a concrete thing
We aren't even sure where the line for sentience in infants begins
crisp heath
@brisk vine animals/sentient beings
median marsh
one day GW will make minis of them i hope
brisk vine
It's entirely arbitrary for the time being
crisp heath
As I said earlier, it's definitely a spectrum
short steeple
*one day GW will make minis of them i hope*
Norn queens are larger than titans
tulip brook
I want tyranid books
short steeple
They are the interiors of hive ships
It's like asking for a plastic imperator model
brisk vine
Like, imagine trying to conceptualize if trees can be sentient
It's not something we are currently able to do
They just don't fit our frame of reference
crisp heath
But sentience and consciousness is still what we use to determine ethics and such. It's still the destinction between an animal, and a human, or any other alien race perhaps out there. These distinctions matter.
short steeple
Hp saucelove having this deep psychological discussion
crisp heath
@brisk vine easy
They aren't
brisk vine
But sentience and consciousness is still what we use to determine ethics and suc...
It's an arbitrary chauvinistic decision to make ourselves feel better of specism
And honestly
Might as well be honest
crisp heath
Trees are not sentient. They can pass chemical messages through their roots, but they are not sentient
brisk vine
I'd say humans have more right to exist because I'm a human
And I value human lives and existence over that of another species
Ideally coexistence and mutualism can be a thing
crisp heath
None of that matters... I don't care lol
brisk vine
Trees are not sentient. They can pass chemical messages through their roots, but...
by what metric
By what frame of reference?
crisp heath
The point is that there is a distinction between animals and sentient beings.
crisp heath
The simple fact they do not have anything capable of producing thought or anything resembling it
brisk vine
All to fit sentience in this conceptual box so we can feel smug
crisp heath
At best they have roots that can pass on signals
brisk vine
The simple fact they do not have anything capable of producing thought or anythi...
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
crisp heath
Absence of evidence?
brisk vine
We cannot conclusively prove the absence of something
crisp heath
Bro are you acting like we haven't autopsied trees
brisk vine
Sentience in non animal species is far beyond our capacity to adequately ascertain
Just because it doesn't have a brain doesn't mean sentience is impossible
crisp heath
We know exactly what they are made of from the roots to the tips of their leaves
They are incapable of thought. But you can believe whatever fantasy you want. I'm not gonna sit here and convince you trees can't talk
brisk vine
What happens when we find some silicon based space faring species without a central neural system?
No brain to speak of
Is it sentient?
crisp heath
We see of it can do stuff like us, or if it's more similar in its actions to an animal, and depending on where it falls on that scale, will answer that ethics question
brisk vine
They are incapable of thought. But you can believe whatever fantasy you want. I'...
Do you even understand the argument, or are you being obtuse on purpose?
brisk vine
We have no way to truly understand if plants can be sentient
We don't have the right frame of reference
Sentience is a concept that is at it's core, a human construct made to satisfy the ego
crisp heath
@verbal path started as an argument about whether nids were sentient or not, or if they were animals
verbal path
<@165167181942751232> started as an argument about whether nids were sentient or...
Tyranids are sentient.
crisp heath
@brisk vine do they have anything that can pass elilectrical currents like a brain? Neurons? Things that can regulate a handle hormones, that interplay with all the electricity that extremely fragile?
@verbal path I know
brisk vine
<@141366245399330816> do they have anything that can pass elilectrical currents ...
Why does it need to be electrical currents?
crisp heath
My whole point this whole time is they're not animals, and that that distinction matters
brisk vine
They have sensory mechanisms
crisp heath
@brisk vine because, it literally has to. That's how information is transmitted, no matter what
brisk vine
Under our current understanding*
verbal path
My whole point this whole time is they're not animals, and that that distinction...
Being animals =/= sentience.
crisp heath
No. But you can believe whatever you wan
brisk vine
Being animals =/= sentience.
That's what I mean
It's just not something our current understanding of sentience can even accommodate
Because it's an arbitrary construct
And not some hard and fast rule
It's not even internally consistent depending on who you ask and when
crisp heath
I have said multiple times it is a spectrum. We were animals once too. But the distinction between common animals and a sentient being is necessary
verbal path
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
crisp heath
@brisk vine that arbitrary construct is how you're having this conversation. Man a neurologist would hate you
verbal path
Are you two confusing sentience and sapience.
brisk vine
Are you two confusing sentience and sapience.
Can a tree be aware of itself?
Can we ever tell?
crisp heath
I've said sentience and consciousness, which together make sapience
green loom
Have you considered consulting a research paper and not a 40k lore chat
short steeple
crisp heath
He wouldn't believe it because it's modern knowledge, no fictitious future knowledge about LOTR trees
verbal path
This was the worst pseudo intellectual thing I've read today.
green loom
This is literally an argument about made up murder bugs that eat planets
Modern knowledge doesn't matter, because it's made u p
short steeple
As a murder bug expert
verbal path
Can a tree be aware of itself?
Trees are by definition sentient.
short steeple
Tyranids are silly guys
green loom
Lil goobers
short steeple
Can confirm
verbal path
And we know the Hivemind is sapient since its displayed emotion that we know because we had its POV.
That emotion being hatred.
crisp heath
Trees are by definition sentient.
Actually, in a limited sense it is. Even grass is in a limited sense. When we cut our lawns, that smell is a hormone that other grasses smell, and it can affect them in various ways, including shriveling and so on. That said, these are quite different and in no way close to the sentience displayed in the most basic of animals, including some bacteria.
short steeple
In the devastation of baal we get a pseudo POV of a Lictor as well
verbal path
Actually, in a limited sense it is. Even grass is in a limited sense. When we cu...
Exactly. They don't react like we do but they still have a reaction.
crisp heath
Sentience is just an awareness of one's surroundings
brisk vine
The nids fear the sentient plant army
crisp heath
But it's that, mixed with consciousness that creates sapience that leads to the whole spectrum and a need to separate by distinction what creatures are capable of what
brisk vine
Codex: Catachan Flora coming to a GW store near you
arctic talon
you ever hear of the catachan coconut
short steeple
Catachan Crumble
crisp heath
you ever hear of the catachan coconut
You dont milk catachan coconut, catachan coconut milks you!
arctic talon
crisp heath
Chimps are at this point in time, extremely close to that "line" where we may begin to start having to ask some legit heavy ethical questions in their regard, if you want a real world example. Someone earlier mentioned wars? Yea that's a thing. Fully fledged, literal wars. With weapons like crude spears and clubs. They've also learned to spear fish by watching Africans. The locals would hang from trees over rivers with spears, and dive down at the fish to catch them. Multiple great ape species are doing that now. And these two are just a couple of examples why people think they're approaching their own "Stone age" if not already taking their first steps tentatively into it.
storm jungle
If that happens we'll prob have another Planet of the Apes
the moment another species that isnt us starts to get smart or pose a threat they'll get genocided
crisp heath
It's not if. It's happening. More of a when at this point
There's multiple videos you can search proving what I've said
crisp heath
Pretty much
ashen coral
Poor guys, we'll probably use them as cheap labor when they're ready
dense salmon
We coexisted with other apes in history
crisp heath
Likely a niche in the ecosystem we are filling, that if we left they'd immediately fill
dense salmon
We even bred with them
radiant lance
We coexisted with other apes in history
Eh. Look what happened to homo neanderthalis
Gone
Turned to dust
tulip brook
forget the apes or elephants or dolphins. roaches will reign supreme
storm jungle
yeah pretty much
dense salmon
These apes have entered a stone age
storm jungle
Anyway the summers are only gonna get worse and the climate is only gonna get hotter, nobody cares or will do anything about it.
Enjoy your stuff while you can
dense salmon
They still have a long time to go
radiant lance
Enjoy your stuff while you can
What if I'm depressed
crisp heath
Dope
arctic talon
Kill them back
dusk patrol
insect chittering
storm jungle
my homeboy 🙏
storm jungle
they KINDA do
but it depends, its mostly reserved for bosses and such
lower Fallen get their lower pair of arms ripped off for dicipline
winter vessel
Ill never forget the tragic tale of the Eliksni Ramen
warm notch
lower Fallen get their lower pair of arms ripped off for dicipline
That’s wild
storm jungle
Destiny lore is nuts
crisp heath
Real
crisp heath
still kinda annoyed the fallen dont make use of their 4 arms
I thought they use them to crawl/dash around
storm jungle
Thats when they rush forward
they utilize all 4 of their arms for other tasks beyond that
spice ridge
I didn't realize this was referring to (Destiny?) something else and thought that the Fallen Dark Angels were somehow all mutated to have 4 arms like some kinda special unit on the table top
warm notch
Sword logic is the coolest thing ever
And like how meta the game really gets within the narrative at times with Savathun talking to the players directly sometimes
Also wish dragons and time loops and shit
So fucky and weird
Sucks that sunsetting became a thing 💀
storm jungle
Sword logic is the coolest thing ever
The Hive are super OP
they are basically eldar-necrons to some extent
I also love shit like that one lore entry where Oryx and his sibling wiped out an entire planet of species over a single argument
warm notch
It sucks how I missed the Forsaken dialogues with Mara
Since it was new dialogue every week and after a certain time she was gone
She’s back in the story now, ain’t she?
I quit after Shadowkeep dropped and that year’s story’s was done 💀
storm jungle
Yep she is
a lot is happening but uh
like with 40k idgaf about Destiny's "plot" anymore
💀
plush mason
The Hive are super OP
its crazy their gods are literally worms
warm notch
its crazy their gods are literally worms
Eris literally went “Would you still love me if I was a worm? 🥺👉👈”
She’s such a queen for that
Anyways I wonder how Gambit, my absolute favorite game mode in that entire game, is doing 🙂
crisp heath
What is happening lol
viral halo
Listen guys it's already bad enough we're warhammer fans
bringing destiny into this?
By God what have you done
plush mason
warhammer warframe destiny
crisp heath
The unholy trinity
viral halo
warframe is like brazilian destiny
storm jungle
viral halo
I will not elaborate
plush mason
warfame lore is a literal rabbithole
warm notch
Warframe lore is so weird
warm notch
I just love how they’re not afraid to get experimental though
Like no matter how batshit insane an idea it is they’d always do it anyway for better or for worse
Anyways warframe is better than Destiny now uwu
I will not elaborate
crisp heath
Now? Always.
rocky gale
You do not need to elaborate
green loom
Book people
Are there any good slaanesh books for fantasy/AoS/40k
Also I think Warframe and destiny both suck
warm notch
Did you know that Donald Duck is the most powerful being in the Final Fantasy universe
viral halo
Book people
Are there any good slaanesh books for fantasy/AoS/40k
Malus Darkblade series for fantasy, Fulgrim for horus heresy.
viral halo
Fulgrim is a VERY slaneeshed up book
anything dealing with elves or eldar has some type of slaneesh involved usually
green loom
I'm like kinda tempted to double down on Hedonites for an AoS army
dusky scroll
What's this Vitahn thing.? is it another major faction?
storm jungle
Votann?
green loom
Jaime Martinez my beloved
dusky scroll
I mean is it considered a major faction like Tau or Imperium...?
storm jungle
I mean is it considered a major faction like Tau or Imperium...?
Yes
dusky scroll
I never heard of it before, saw it any of the youtube videos. But in the list factions in a website, saw their name...
dusky scroll
Are they new?
crisp heath
What's this Vitahn thing.? is it another major faction?
Perhaps one of the best factions
They're dope af
dusky scroll
Just made of Abhumans and Sentient bots?
green loom
Ya
dusky scroll
So if Imperium loses to a fight with them, they just lost to a bot match?
green loom
Wym
dusky scroll
nvm... What are their relations with other factions? like Chaos, Imperium, eldar... etc.
Are they vulnerable to chaos too? (considering human are the most vulnerable to them)
green loom
Not really
rocky gale
The Votann themselves are actually massive AI constructs the Dwarves are just clones that they make to serve them
green loom
They don't interact with others much beyond trade/Merc work and telling them to get off planets they want
rocky gale
Each Votann sorta does it own thing, they're pretty ancient though and some of them are starting to degrade mentally.
dusky scroll
This AI... were they made by pre-Imperium humans?
green loom
Ye
dusky scroll
Each Votann sorta does it own thing, they're pretty ancient though and some of t...
ain't a 40k faction if someone isn't losing their mind
rocky gale
Yea, the Dwarves worship them like gods though so even when they start getting a little erratic with their commands they just follow the orders
If a Votann says to mine the core of an inhabited planet they're gonna do it regardless of what the locals want.
Think the Codex also mentioned one of them falling to a Tyranid Hive fleet, it slaughtered all the Dwarves and damaged a lot the systems but the Votann itself is still alive. It's just trapped and alone in the remains of it's former Empire as it descends into madness
dusky scroll
They're a refresh of the old, old, *ooooollld*, squat faction
They used to be a minor faction and now got promoted to a major one?
green loom
They used to be a major faction, got shelved, and are now back
rocky gale
The Squats were a thing in like the 80s and 90s, but they were dropped and forgotten
They were then reinvented as the Leagues of Votann near the end of 9th edition
dusky scroll
Soooo.... They are the 2nd major faction that are less warmongering usual 40k civs/species... (after Tau)?
soft thunder
Book people
Are there any good slaanesh books for fantasy/AoS/40k
i'm illiterate, but I second the Malus Darkblade series. Also the Azaezel series is good, if not better. Listened to 'the inept general' read them on youtube a few years back. So I might just be nostalgic right now.
dusky scroll
I thought squats are one of the few abhuman factions that were allowed to serve for the imperium
rocky gale
They are but the Votann are different to the regular Squats
storm jungle
even in 30k with the new rules for the tabletop it also confirms that the Imperium used votann slaves lol
rocky gale
Votann just use Squats in the same way the Imperium does
storm jungle
Nah
It depends from League to League but they are no way as carefree with their soldiers as the Imperium is.
Kin warriors are called "Kin" for a reason
soft thunder
any good lore vids or books on the votan atm? Kinda forgot they were even added
green loom
I thought squats are one of the few abhuman factions that were allowed to serve ...
There's squats in the imperium
They just have their own faction squatting in the galactic core rn
soft thunder
they seem like AOS sky dwarfs but with roberts
rocky gale
Many Roberts
dusky scroll
Lore wise, which faction is at the weakest state (or in most danger of getting extinct by other factions)?
storm jungle
any good lore vids or books on the votan atm? Kinda forgot they were even added
Atm the only lore we got is their Codex and Kill-Team
storm jungle
Lore wise, which faction is at the weakest state (or in most danger of getting ...
Tau probably
but i wouldnt say they are "weak"
just in danger
patent ivy
You guys think they are gonna do a reset? I watched a video the other day about a guy speculating one might happen because of all the different stories they got going on. I'm not involved enough in the lore to have an opinion, but I'm just curious
rocky gale
Yea, don't think they have any novels involving the Votann yet
storm jungle
You guys think they are gonna do a reset? I watched a video the other day about ...
A reset is not gonna happen until 40k stops making money
or GW wants to do a Gathering Storm again
which wont definitely be for another few years IRL
patent ivy
Ah ok
green loom
Tau probably
NGL I'd say craftworld eldar
dusky scroll
Tau probably
Interesting! I thought that were OP when it comes to defense, with their giant mechs and long-mid range firepower
storm jungle
well they are
the issue is if a big serious faction focused on them they wouldnt hold out too much
green loom
Eldar are dying out and get the shit kicked out of them regularly
Tau are small but expanding and entrenched
rocky gale
Soooo.... They are the 2nd major faction that are less warmongering usual 40k ci...
Also I'd say the Tau are still pretty warmongering, they are uber expansionist, they just go about it in many ways.
dusky scroll
Someone else I asked said Dark Eldars because of their unique danger of getting juiced by Slaanesh. So they only fight with vulnerable and weaker targets.
green loom
Dark Eldar are still comfy in Commoragh
crisp heath
Drukhari are super deeply entrenched
Comorragh is basically impossible to invade, their defense is set to "yes"
storm jungle
^
the only way to destroy them is a demonic invasion
which itself is also hard because webway
storm jungle
Which has a tendency to have imperialist tendencies
"Well see the tau are bad because they kill people"
rocky gale
Drukhari are pretty safe in Commoragh, hell they're capturing Tyranids and bringing them back there to make them fight in the arena and to experiment on them.
dusky scroll
Comorragh is their capital or something (like Holy Terra)?
storm jungle
Dark Eldar can steal suns and planets btw
Uhhhh
its more like an endless city
the dark eldar reside in a pocket dimension
Its also way bigger than Terra
crisp heath
Tau really shouldn't be around, it's more or less explicit that they can't compete with the other factions at all and are just too little of a threat to devote precious resources wiping out
dusky scroll
Tau really shouldn't be around, it's more or less explicit that they can't compe...
I doubt that logic works in 40k... given Tyranids and Orcs exist.
crisp heath
Tyranids are mostly on the opposite side of the galaxy (mostly)
rocky gale
Tyranids are everywhere
crisp heath
Unless I forgot which way was east again
storm jungle
Tyranids are everywhere
^
rocky gale
Tau are also on the East
storm jungle
Nids are coming from every corner of the galaxy
rocky gale
They had to deal with an entire Hive fleet
green loom
The Tau have been invaded by Tyranids multiple times
rocky gale
Gorgon I think
dusky scroll
So, why was Tau ranked lower than.... racist-fascist-space-nazis?
storm jungle
Because their numbers are not big enough
crisp heath
Yeah it was gorgon
dusky scroll
(other than plot armor)
storm jungle
their space in the galaxy is also not that big
storm jungle
(other than plot armor)
(okay tbh its mostly plot armor 💀 )
crisp heath
But if it's not Behemoth or Leviathan, it was not a significant Hive Fleet
rocky gale
Seems they've also had to deal with Kraken and Behemoth
storm jungle
yeah and also we now have Fleets coming from Segmentum Tempestus
green loom
Tempestus dn
dusky scroll
btw, now that 2 goodie primarchs are back... any of them trying to revive the Emperor?
rocky gale
btw, now that 2 goodie primarchs are back... any of them trying to revive the Em...
I think one of them had a vision that some people say could be a prophesy about how to revive Big E, but I don't really follow the main story.
crisp heath
Guilliman is mad at his dad and Lion is too polite
rocky gale
I think it may have been a vision the Lion had
crisp heath
Cypher is trying to shoot him just to see what will happen though
dusky scroll
Cypher is trying to shoot him just to see what will happen though
what happened?
crisp heath
We don't know, a Custodes told him to reschedule
storm jungle
Nah
rocky gale
I thought it was the Emperor himself
Cypher went to shoot the Emperor and the Emperor was like "Not yet"
crisp heath
The Emperor talked to the Custodes who talked to Cypher
storm jungle
what happened?
Basically he escaped from the Dark Cells beneath the palace to go to the Emperor, when he was almost within the throne chamber the Emperor spoke to him in his mind and told him "not yet"
radiant lance
There was a chaos cultist that told the Lion that he wanted to kill Papi Emps so he can transcend his mortal form and save the imperium as a proper God
dusky scroll
Speaking of Custodes, if one of them dies... is that loss permanent for Imperium?
crisp heath
They can make new ones
But the experience is considered irreplaceable
Custodes can be old as hell
dusky scroll
How would they remake them? Each custodes were handcrafted by Big E afaik.
crisp heath
We don't know jack about how to make custodes, just that they still do it
drifting jacinth
Yeah new custodes are made
The process just needs to be adapted for each dude
crisp heath
Emps probably left his notes behind and I'd imagine it's other custodes doing the procedure
verbal path
Tau really shouldn't be around, it's more or less explicit that they can't compe...
They're too little of a threat to warrant all the resources the Imperium would have to dedicate to wiping them out.
drifting jacinth
I mean he never worked alone, I'd assume he left a notebook and a pat on the back to his head scientists and they just ke0t things going
crisp heath
The Imperium has guns that are harder to replace than a custodian
drifting jacinth
Uh, no
crisp heath
I mean he never worked alone, I'd assume he left a notebook and a pat on the bac...
I mean wasn't his head genetic scientist one of the guys who tried to coup him?
So no, he probably didn't carry on the legacy
drifting jacinth
To his *newly appointed head scientist then
rocky gale
Was that Amar Astarte?
drifting jacinth
No clue
crisp heath
Yeah i don't quite recall if Astarte was involved in the coup or not
drifting jacinth
I didn't follow the newer reunification era lore
rocky gale
Astarte was a woman
dusky scroll
Another question, who was the mother of the primarchs?
drifting jacinth
The test tube
drifting jacinth
Erda gave some of her perpetual magical bullshit but they were created, they're not human in the slightest
dusky scroll
Erda
Ok... I had doubts about what I read in those websites.. I guess lore confirmed.
drifting jacinth
Like, they're not normal kids modified like space marines, they're made from the ground up
dusk patrol
The Emperor and Erda used their dna but yeah
crisp heath
I'm pretty sure they also have her DNA
dusk patrol
They’re tangentially human at best
drifting jacinth
There's wolf dna in russ they're a melting pot
dusk patrol
There’s also a lot to suggest they imprinted on their worlds
crisp heath
She's just space Galadriel and I'm cool with that
dusky scroll
Ain't she one of them perpetuals?
rocky gale
Yep
storm jungle
Galadriel is an actually good character
drifting jacinth
I mean big E getting help to make the primarch made sense
I'd have prefered if she didn't die tho
dusk patrol
Tbh she’s a good example of how Perpetuals were all arrogant pricks
crisp heath
I hate Galadriel like the devil
dusk patrol
Or mostly were
drifting jacinth
Like, keep her as a new character, give her shit to do in 30k and 40k, and boom
dusk patrol
She’s literally watching the siege happen
storm jungle
I hate Galadriel like the devil
She's never giving you her lock of hair, get over it
dusk patrol
Due in no small part to her own actions
And she’s still like “oh but I did it cause I love my sons”
drifting jacinth
Galadriel's hair is only important because of a tree, gotta love Tolkien
drifting jacinth
Fr
storm jungle
some premium hobbit blunts
drifting jacinth
I mean tbf
crisp heath
I love whenever people bring up how catholic he was because then I get to talk about his Atlantean reincarnation conspiracy theory and the time he claimed to communicate telepathically with birds
dusk patrol
Not even “well maybe I didn’t think it through”
Or “maybe should have tried something else”
drifting jacinth
Bad exemple, Angron did nothing wrong
dusk patrol
He did plenty
rocky gale
Angron did a lot wrong
dusk patrol
He has a tragic start
drifting jacinth
No he's a perfect baby boy
dusk patrol
His choices after are no one’s fault but his own
dusky scroll
what happened to her (Erda)? betrayed the emperor or something?
dusk patrol
Yeah
rocky gale
Yea his origin story is sad, but like he then made the decision to do what was done to him to his own sons
crisp heath
Angrons the one who beat a daemonette so hard she turned into a sword ye?
dusk patrol
Yes
drifting jacinth
Angrons the one who beat a daemonette so hard she turned into a sword ye?
Not a daemonette, a keeper lmao
dusk patrol
Not a daemonette
crisp heath
what happened to her (Erda)? betrayed the emperor or something?
Lorgar happened to her
rocky gale
Erebus
dusk patrol
Lorgar happened to her
Erebus
crisp heath
Well in that case angron did nothing wrong
Can yall tell I'm basically useless for anything that isn't tyranids
drifting jacinth
Well in that case angron did nothing wrong
🤝🤝🤝
dusk patrol
Can yall tell I'm basically useless for anything that isn't tyranids
Not to worry
drifting jacinth
Angron is a SAINT and the best dad
crisp heath
Don't even insinuate I don't know my husband
rocky gale
Angron is easily top 5 worst dad in 40k
drifting jacinth
His sons wanted the nails tho afaik he didn't force it on anyone until waaay late in the heresy
dusk patrol
He let them think they would somehow bring them closer to him
rocky gale
Yea and if he was a good dad he'd be like "No you can't have the horrific implant that's killing me"
drifting jacinth
Was he wrong
rocky gale
He still hated them, he still hates them
crisp heath
The reason Kharn became so important was he was the only World Eater that Angron liked enough to not immediately beat into a pulp for speaking to him
dusk patrol
Angron has some stiff competition but he’s definitely up there with some of the worst dads
Which is impressive
rocky gale
Hell he mistreated his own bodyguards so much that it became a position of shame to be one of them
dusk patrol
Competing with just the other primarchs is hard enough
Curze and Perturabo were dogshit too
drifting jacinth
Hell he mistreated his own bodyguards so much that it became a position of shame...
They had it coming tbh
Seriously tho, yeah
Kinda shitty dad, deffo not the worst
Perty is probably the worst ?
Scale-wise
crisp heath
I'm sorry but if you wanted a fulfilling and honorable life you would simply choose to not have angron as a father
drifting jacinth
I'm sorry but if you wanted a fulfilling and honorable life you would simply cho...
If I got beaten up by angron I'd take it as a me issue tbh
dusk patrol
drifting jacinth
Curze hated his sons but like
They were shitheads he was right
storm jungle
I mean
dusk patrol
Through his own fault
rocky gale
Perty is probably the worst ?
You leave Turbo out of this
crisp heath
Curze is always right in the shittiest way possible
dusk patrol
We see time and again legions reflect their primarchs
And they all had the ability to shape them
crisp heath
The man plays a game where he tries to be absolutely correct but also wrong about everything
dusk patrol
Some chose to be more hands off with it but still
drifting jacinth
Perturabo is a bad dad (love him for it)
Angron is a good dad (i will lie for my boy)
Curze is a bad dad (and was right tbh)
storm jungle
He could have stepped in at any time and purged his legion and gotten actual Raven Guard-esque vigilante sons. He just didn't care because he was a braindead moron and wanted to surrender to fate.
He is THE eptiome of a doomer.
"Why even try if everything is shit."
drifting jacinth
I mean, yeah-ish ? But his whole terror tactics shtick kinda needed assholes to work
storm jungle
Not really.
dusk patrol
Not even tbh
drifting jacinth
He could have entirely switched strategy ofc
storm jungle
marines can do terror tactics very well
his strategy also didnt work
those worlds rebelled
dusk patrol
Malcharion is a good example of how it didn’t
storm jungle
^
dusky scroll
Guilliman is mad at his dad and Lion is too polite
sorry for bringing up old topic, why is Gulliman angry?
storm jungle
Curze was not right about anything
drifting jacinth
Every world rebels
dusk patrol
Hell, the Blood Angels are even
drifting jacinth
It's the imperium
storm jungle
~~Every world rebels~~
News flash, that means his tactics didnt work.
dusk patrol
Space Wolves
dusk patrol
You can’t fix him
drifting jacinth
crisp heath
sorry for bringing up old topic, why is Gulliman angry?
The emperor had a psychic mental breakdown in front of him and now Guilliman thinks he's a dick
drifting jacinth
I will
dusk patrol
I can make him worse
dusk patrol
Perturabo needed someone to punch him more
dusky scroll
The emperor had a psychic mental breakdown in front of him and now Guilliman thi...
Strongest mind in the Imperium had a breakdown?
dusk patrol
And tell him to not be such a little bitch
rocky gale
Don't hurt my little darling Iron baby boy
drifting jacinth
Perturabo needed someone to punch him more
See, in my fanfics,
crisp heath
Emperor be like: "if you can't handle me at my 'thousand tortured, deranged voices driving all around me to madness' you don't deserve me at my 'golden god'"
crisp heath
Strongest mind in the Imperium had a breakdown?
The emperor is just a crazy guy in a fancy chair
drifting jacinth
God ? 🤨
dusky scroll
What did he do/say that got dubbed into being "mentally broken" by Guilliman?
rocky gale
Saying hundreds of things at once in different voices
dusk patrol
Contradictory to himself
crisp heath
Break apart into like a thousand distinct personalities, most of them cruel
crisp heath
And then, that thing, that terrible, awful thing upon the Throne, saw him.
‘My son,’ it said.
‘Thirteen,’ it said.
‘Lord of Ultramar.’
‘Saviour.’
‘Hope.’
‘Failure.’
‘Disappointment.’
‘Liar.’
‘Thief.’
‘Betrayer.’
‘Guilliman.’
He heard all these at once. He did not hear them at all. The Emperor spoke and did not speak. The very idea of words seemed ridiculous, the concept of them a grievous harm against the equilibrium of time and being.
‘Roboute Guilliman.’ The raging tempest spoke his name, and it was as the violence a dying sun rains upon its worlds. ‘Guilliman. Guilliman. Guilliman.’```I cannot believe it
the Emperor turned into what he always was
a spammy redditor
💀
crisp heath
I read that passage in the TTS voice every time tbh
drifting jacinth
The emperor is just twitch plays imperium
dusk patrol
Let’s not go too far. At no point did he say some cringey pun
Or reference to a Reddit in joke
storm jungle
I mean
theres a part in HH
where Guilliman says
"This isn't just Horus' rebellion anymore, it is his Heresy."
I WISH I WAS FUCKING JOKING
dusk patrol
Ok but Guilliman also smooches a data pad
storm jungle
also true
dusk patrol
So it’s all ok
dusky scroll
```He could not remember what his father had looked like, before, and Roboute Gu...
out of all the things.... Thief?
dusk patrol
Gage watching the data pad
God I wish that were me.
drifting jacinth
"Horus, give me that warhammer ! Fourty kay !"
-Guilliman
dusk patrol
out of all the things.... Thief?
Stole his imperium or whatever
It’s meant to be just an amalgamation
crisp heath
out of all the things.... Thief?
I mean the same chapter implies the Emperor just straight up hates Guilliman for existing lmao
drifting jacinth
His sword, maybe ? Might just be small bits of the emperor having weird ideas
dusk patrol
The point is it’s contradictory and weird
dusky scroll
Maybe his mental speech to text is glitching?
dusk patrol
I wouldn’t try to extrapolate a ton out of it beyond the Emperor is really really mind fucked
crisp heath
He's just not a person anymore
He's a bunch of personalities and ideas jammed into a skeleton
near wasp
He was never a person
dusk patrol
He was
crisp heath
And then juiced up on warp
drifting jacinth
Is that a change or did he just get worst at hiding it tho
crisp heath
Apparently he was pretty normal, aside from being an immortal wizard, before the unification war
dusky scroll
I mean the speech to text software I use at work just wrote "psycho" instead of "chemo" (as in chemotherapy).
crisp heath
After the unification war, he became depressed and unemotional
dusk patrol
But yes he became what he became
crisp heath
And then he just got worse
dusk patrol
After a long time
rocky gale
During the Heresy when Guilliman was cut off from Terra he assumed Terra was gone and established his own Empire with Sanguinius as it's Leader, so maybe that's what the Thief comment was referring to
drifting jacinth
Hot take but I still don't like how much they humanised the emperor, I wish they kept him mega distant
near wasp
Either that or stealing his work in the form of the primaris
crisp heath
The shamans things
There's an old explanation of the emperor's origin that he was created by the mass sacrifice of human shamans to create an anti-chaos weapon by mixing their souls
drifting jacinth
Ik ik
crisp heath
It's still very popular with fans but not the official origin
drifting jacinth
Either that or stealing his work in the form of the primaris
Did the emperor ever care about people not modifying his work ? Always assumed thst was 100% a church thing
rocky gale
Either that or stealing his work in the form of the primaris
Na, the Emperor gave his approval for Cawl to do basically whatever he wanted
near wasp
Did the emperor ever care about people not modifying his work ? Always assumed t...
I mean he outlaw human genetic maniplation
drifting jacinth
Yea but that's mostly cause he has his own plan
The men of gold or whatever iirc
crisp heath
Men of Gold were before the robots rebelled
dusky scroll
So.... there's a good chance if Emperor revives, the Imperium will tear into two factions and wage another civil war. Those who accept the Emperor and those who do not believe this is the emperor that they fought for before...
crisp heath
Emperor just wanted "pure" human genetics and used transhumans as a means to an end
drifting jacinth
So.... there's a good chance if Emperor revives, the Imperium will tear into two...
Horus heresy 2 : primarch boogaloo
crisp heath
The end goal was stable psykers who were otherwise normal humans
drifting jacinth
The end goal was stable psykers who were otherwise normal humans
Yea this
crisp heath
So.... there's a good chance if Emperor revives, the Imperium will tear into two...
That already happened with Guilliman
drifting jacinth
I'd assume having catgirls in the mix would fuck with his plan somehow
dusky scroll
That already happened with Guilliman
eh?
crisp heath
Some folks in the dark imperium still aren't loyal to Guilliman
Emperor's Spears my beloved
drifting jacinth
||There's a ton of emperor's x chapters in the game but I can't recall one for a weapon he actually used much||
crisp heath
We already had the abhuman debate here but I just gotta say giant, sweaty, super strong, unquestionably loyal men? 100% the kind of thing Emps loves
dusky scroll
Some folks in the dark imperium still aren't loyal to Guilliman
Oh... yeah. Heard of that.. Heard he went on a purge in government. To root out out corruption
drifting jacinth
He literally designed a sweat organ
crisp heath
My guy he made immortal dudes who are good at everything to stand guard over him 24/7 and decided they must also be tall, bronzed men
Every time he tries to create the "perfect human" it's just young Arnold over and over again
drifting jacinth
Do custodes have any reason not to be women or is it just to not ruin the YMCA vibes
dusky scroll
Probably same reason why Nuns in Guns are all women
crisp heath
I don't think there's anything explicitly stating custodes can't be female, but Malcador does call out that they can make female transhumans in general but simply choose not to
drifting jacinth
I mean there isn't a single one mentioned anywhere afaik
So they either can't or don't make em, as far as I'm concerned
I'm not gonna assume they're all conveniently out of frame
crisp heath
Women can become demi-astartes and female primarchs are considered possible but emperor didn't want them, so I'd imagine they could make anything except a full astartes from a woman and choose not to
drifting jacinth
Honestly it's probably just an irl choice that could get ported into making up a lore one anytime so eh
drifting jacinth
Women can become demi-astartes and female primarchs are considered possible but ...
Is there any fem demi-astartes in the lore ? Never heard of that
crisp heath
I don't think there's any named, no, but iirc it's acknowledged as being possible
drifting jacinth
Aw, could have been cool
drifting jacinth
Magnus would have made one purely to criticise the emperor
median star
Could ogryn become psyker or no
drifting jacinth
Yeah, but people don't become psyker, they're born as such
dusky scroll
Wait... Aren't ogryns.....kinda' dumb?
crisp heath
not Cassia
crisp heath
Cassia was the specialest Ogryn tbh, she was of average or higher intelligence, female, and a psyker
So all the things Ogryn aren't supposed to be lmao
median star
Assail psyker ogryn but instead of shards its just bricks
dusky scroll
what do dumb psychers do? Mistakenly burn down the house?
crisp heath
The implication is that there's a lot more like her though, they're just killed/in hiding. It's just something that happens because the great rift is pumping warp straight into ogryn brains.
crisp heath
what do dumb psychers do? Mistakenly burn down the house?
Well one of them was attacked by the space wolves and sat on his hands while they destroyed his planet, and then when they catch him he suddenly changes his mind and fights for his life
median star
Slaneesh corrupted ogryns only seak one thing more rations
drifting jacinth
what do dumb psychers do? Mistakenly burn down the house?
Same thing as dumb soldiers or whatever
Being a strong psyker is 90% talent 10% training
You're either born with it or you aren't
tough haven
Cassia didn’t deserve what happened to her
She had a lot of innate potential, it was discovered when she unconsciously lifted a tank to block her commissar from enemy fire, then the commissar was going to execute her for violating the imperial truth, but an inquisitor who the commissar owed took her under her wing, and had the official records show she was killed in action
dusky scroll
Learning about 40k universe here always makes me think, it'd be pretty cool if there were an open world FPS RPG like Fallout in 40k universe. Starting as a borderline nobody in an Imperium world and slowly becoming a key player. Multiple ending that ends up with victory for Imperium or genestealer cult takeover or Chaos invasion...
tough haven
Too bad that will likely never happen
crisp heath
I mean 40k games are also notoriously mostly bad
warm notch
If you were a nobody in the imperium you’d remain a nobody until you died
crisp heath
The good ones are Dawn of War, but it's janky as hell, Mechanicus, and Darktide, which I'm sure you're familiar with
I'm sure there's a couple more cult classics but they're mostly bad
Rogue Trader has promise but I'm not buying it because my dreams of dating Cassia and retiring to a farm on a paradise world were crushed
dusky scroll
If you were a nobody in the imperium you’d remain a nobody until you died
Yeah... that's kinda' true for everything including real world. That's what makes an RPG protagonist so different.
slate belfry
Space Marine is good. Chaosgate is good. Rogue Trader is solid
dusky scroll
Even if main 40k universe is too holy to be stained, it could take place in Necromunda and their gang wars.
tough haven
Rogue Trader has promise but I'm not buying it because my dreams of dating Cassi...
I’m gonna buy it I wanna be a fucking space pirate with a motley crew of unlikely allies
tough haven
Even if main 40k universe is too holy to be stained, it could take place in Necr...
True
dusky scroll
I mean a game where you utilize resources, makes builds, pick choices of how you want to end things.
I know 40K games are NOT as big as others in the market, but it seems like the games are better these days.
tough haven
It’s just GW tends to A. Not let things like that happen, or B. Fuck it up
Like why haven’t they made a battlefield style game?
slate belfry
Like why haven’t they made a battlefield style game?
Too good of an idea
dusky scroll
TBH, Multiplayer games probably have higher risk. Long term maintenance, content update cycle, monetization...
tough haven
Also the genre could be too flooded by similar ones unless they find a way to make it stand out
Darktide is doing fairly well considering everything
crisp heath
Like why haven’t they made a battlefield style game?
They did, it sucked, no one played it, it's not on steam
dusky scroll
and the risk of ending up in a loop where people don't play bevause there aren't many players playing, so player count drops and so more player leaves.
crisp heath
Seeing Warhammer 40k on a game is a mark of quality, specifically of low quality
crisp heath
What was it called?
It escapes me atm, but it was a space marine game. Iirc one of the default chapters was Blood Angels?
I'm not thinking of the one with orks, this one was strictly SM vs CSM
tough haven
Oh it’s a space marine game, that’s why
GW try not to make one faction games challenge (impossible)
Btw Shootas Blood and Teef is a good 40K game imo
crisp heath
Tbf making asymmetric games is hard and 40k games with multiple playable factions would be asymmetric hell
tough haven
I’m disappointed in the lack of melee options and combat in a Ork game, but otherwise good
tough haven
Tbf making asymmetric games is hard and 40k games with multiple playable faction...
Fair
I mean it can be focused around one or two factions
crisp heath
Like how do you balance "strong guy in armor" vs "super fast space wizards with advanced tech" vs "unkillable robots"
tough haven
But does it have to be space marines all the time
Like I get imperium is the favorite child of GW, and that space marines are it’s poster boys, but it gets tiring
crisp heath
I’m disappointed in the lack of melee options and combat in a Ork game, but othe...
Well it ain't called Choppas Blood an Teef now is it?
Fink!
tough haven
With how much it’s shoved down our throats their lore gets boring
tough haven
Fink!
Finkin is for gits an’ blood axes
I wanna krump some Humies proper
I saw there was a speed freek racing game coming sometime soon
Might be decent
tough haven
Well it ain't called Choppas Blood an Teef now is it?
also listen to this banger, very Orky
crisp heath
Speed Freeks isn't my kind of thing but yeah it looks good
tough haven
Me neither, but anything Orky is at least semi up my alley
tough haven
It’s so good, I wish I had more
soft thunder
Something potentially great just corssed my mind. If Grendyl was ever revealed at some point, what if.. a new tabletop model for him was released alongside it? That could be cool. He would have to be a bad ass, of course.
warped briar
spotted 40k game talk, play some boltgun
crisp heath
Question: The Grand Master of the Assassinorum is floating around out there in self exile, right? And isn't he some sort of super badass? What do yall think he has been up to in this time, and/or what would be a dope way for his character to come back to the uni? I'm curious as to what yall would think.
drifting jacinth
Thinking back on it, I kinda miss when the dark angels were the reasonable marines
With a cult of secrets vibe
soft thunder
"Brother, I have fallen."
arctic talon
Question: The Grand Master of the Assassinorum is floating around out there in s...
he's parts of the high lords of terra
and he's been in like 2 books
He thinks that Guilliman's reforms will ultimately ammount to nothing but does nothing to stop it
dusk patrol
^
But he probably is a badass
Considering he came from one of the temples orginally.
Not clear which, probably not Culexus.
Eversor seems unlikely but, tbh its hard to say.
I kinda love the idea tbh.
celest dome
Either Vindicare or the shape-shifting ones
drifting jacinth
Honestly any'd be likely, the temples experiment regularly so "what if we made a sane eversore lol" seems possible
dusk patrol
There's others too.
drifting jacinth
Also very funmy
celest dome
But seeing as the High Lord are ancient I would say Adamus
dusk patrol
Honestly any'd be likely, the temples experiment regularly so "what if we made a...
Well Eversor aren't like, insane.
They're very cognizant.
They're just hopped up on drugs which make them push even farther, and their missions mean they don't care about collateral.
drifting jacinth
Eh, that's arguing the definition of sane and insane
dusk patrol
The point being, they're not beserkers.
They're very lucid when they're in action.
And are able to have the drugs removed and can be relatively calm.
drifting jacinth
Does that happen anywhere ?
dusk patrol
Still psychopathic killers but, its possible for them to maybe become a high lord
dusk patrol
Does that happen anywhere ?
Its mostly talked about
We see one be calmer when he has the drugs in his system during Nemesis.
drifting jacinth
Fair
dusk patrol
We know that Assassins' leadership is typically made up of the most successful assassins.
And those eventually become the canidate chosen to become High Lord.
drifting jacinth
Though given the amount of experimentation I'd assume different eversors would probably handle shit wildly differently, just through different methods
dusk patrol
Anyways, my point only being, it is possible.
All assasins are super fucking dangerous though so its hard to say.
drifting jacinth
All assasins are super fucking dangerous though so its hard to say.
I mean, you'd hope so
dusk patrol
drifting jacinth
Though I'd assume the sneaky ones are more familiar with like
Paperwork and mondanities
dusk patrol
They're all pretty genius, the selection process is very very stringent.
drifting jacinth
Ik but genius =/= experience
dusk patrol
The point being, they can learn or would know how to do that stuff
Rising that high is partially poltics too.
drifting jacinth
Yeah, but they'd pick someone that'd be a good fit, it'd be kinda dumb otherwise
dusk patrol
They have to learn an ungodly amount of things for missions.
Callidus in particular.
drifting jacinth
Callidus in particular.
That's the one I'd consider most likely to be a high lord yeah
They probs wouldn't stop using their assassin bullshit there, unlike most of the others
Either callidus or the info-gathering nerd one
Vanus !
arctic talon
Vanus, Venemum, Callidus, Vindicare I could all see
he's clearly not a blank
and he prolly isn't an Eversor
drifting jacinth
Blank-suppressing bullshit exists in the imperium, but it'd be noticeable, I think
arctic talon
The gear Culuxi wear lets them do so
but he isn't noted as wearing anything special
drifting jacinth
The eisenhorn novels have a smaller device that just hides the blankness afaik
drifting jacinth
If they make a book out of it he'll probably be like, a super special unique kind of assassin that was never mentioned before anyways
thick cedar
Is soulfire hot?
shadow plover
It's nice if you've got something to go with it, like trauma with crit soulfire
And the talent that makes it spread on kill
crisp heath
I'd imagine it's same as warpflame, so yes
celest dome
Probably, it does leave scorch marks
shadow plover
oh, mistook the channel 
crisp heath
Teammates can probably walk in it because psykers can control who it burns
thick cedar
Molten Beam - The pyromancer claps his hands together and turns them outward towards the foe. As he does so, a white-hot beam of blazing energy bursts from his palms. It melts armour to slag and vaporises flesh, leaving only ghastly shadows in its wake.
This is the only reference to white flame
on the wiki
shadow plover
what then explains zealot's fire grenade not damaging teammates 
maybe it's just a gameplay factor
celest dome
Teammates can probably walk in it because psykers can control who it burns
Nah, that's just cause there is no FF, like bullets don't know friends from foes
crisp heath
Zealots also use magic fire
shadow plover
valid
crisp heath
Empowered by the Emperor
thick cedar
Its ironic because in Warhammer 3 Warrior Priests have an ability called Soulfire and its the same colour as our Psykers fire
thick cedar
Telekine Dome - Bullets bounce off of thin air and are deflected alarmingly towards friendly forces as the psyker erects a barrier of shimmering psychic energy about himself.
Is it me or is the wording really weird?
arctic talon
on the wiki
regarding color of fire it can probably be whatever the psyker wants
the blue fire in game is prolly to help diferentiate it from normal fire
also sienna
celest dome
Its ironic because in Warhammer 3 Warrior Priests have an ability called Soulfir...
Divine magic is still powered by the Winds of magic
celest dome
Telekine Dome - Bullets bounce off of thin air and are deflected alarmingly towa...
It doesn't reflect bullets toward the enemies, it just make them rickochet, next to the Psyker, where it's allies are
crisp heath
Needs commas
celest dome
More, commas, are, needed
crisp heath
Bullets bounce off of thin air and are deflected, alarmingly towards friendly forces, as the psyker erects a barrier of shimmering psychic energy about himself
thick cedar
So the Psyker just trolls the shit out of their team
warm notch
what then explains zealot's fire grenade not damaging teammates <:fufufu:6699417...
We’re built different
warm notch
Further evidence the zealot uses magic fire
This is funny because Sienna can quite literally burn her teammates with literal magic flames
Makes me wonder how different Darktide would be with friendly fire
crisp heath
Ogryn massacre
median marsh
Ogryn death toll skyrockets
shadow plover
Bad enough that they decided to remove it
celest dome
FF Darktide would be very painful, 1 Ogryn Big grenade would be enough to wipe the team in 1 go
arctic talon
Friendly fire in darktide == Zealot and Ogryn are miserable to play lol
Psyker void staff friendlyfire
would be really funny
same with plasma gun
crisp heath
A lot of my teammates would get headshotted due to walking directly in front of me while I'm trying to snipe before jumping down the ledge
celest dome
Revolver accustomed with shooting through allies 
crisp heath
Like seriously man those guy stand clear until I fire and then suddenly they decide to put their face directly in front of the lasgun
median marsh
Looking at how some people handle guns irl (like looking into the fucking barrel) it's almost realistic
dense salmon
<@166943308231344128> wanna run some games together lol?
I'll get in on that
crisp heath
I'll get in on that
Hell yeah! We'll get together later today!
green loom
I'm down if you guys need a number 4
rose oak
The whole thing about Primarchs having warp aspects to them that aren't really explored yet suggests that they, with a proper exploration and understanding could return a bit like daemons right. I mean the daemon primarchs already can and are literally imperishable, so why can't loyalist ones potentially do the same.
green loom
We dunno
I mean we know Sangy's soul is still floating about in some form
And Horus just had Ferrus hanging around
So I think it's evident enough that their souls are a bit more survivable
rose oak
Like watching the fight between Angron and the Lion recently, there is so much disparity between them in power. So like, the whole unexplored dimension of the loyalist primarchs' powers, I could see letting them ressurect.
I'd likely expect, something bringing back a couple of the Primarchs. I think Sangy will be brought back eventually. And maybe Ferrus as well.
Alpharius probably won't, Omegon is probably still alive and the odds of his return to head up a confusing loyalist alpha legion resurrection is very possible.
Horus is.... long dead
None of the Traitor primarchs have a great chance of coming back honestly, Horus got obliterated by the Emperor, Alpharius is replacable with Omegon and I don't think Konrad would come back since he basically let himself die to prove a point.
green loom
I don't think anyone aside from Lion/Roboute/Russ will be brought back
So just the ones with factions
For BA I imagine they'll sooner get a new Sanguinor than Sanguinius
crisp heath
I'm down if you guys need a number 4
For sure!
median marsh
Horus isn't just dead, he's dead dead
Which is still funny to me because my man got basically erased from existing
crisp heath
So. When it comes to the primarchs, it really depends on what the emperor did with them. There's this theory that before he made them, he made a secret trip to the warp and bartered with the Chaos Gods, kinda like Dr strange and Dormamu. Anyway, if that theory is correct, and he perhaps took some essence from them and used that to make the primarchs, they likely are somewhat of half step Daemon/Daemon princes already, and would explain quite a few things in regards to the durability and strength of their souls, and likely why they were so appealing to the chaos gods in the first place.
crisp heath
It is because we don't know what he did in there
The trip isn't a theory. What he did in there though is
median marsh
our usual Friday cosmic poker meet up duh
I feel a bit at odds with the idea of Sang returning
crisp heath
... my man's needs redemption for the way he died
median marsh
"oh my epic sacrifice? Tis was nothing really"
crisp heath
Sangy deserved better 😤 😢
sleek wigeon
tbh I feel like Ferrus deserves a second chance the most
dude didnt really go anywhere and then he's killed by his BFF
crisp heath
@median marsh Epic Sacrifice!?!? Dude knew he was gonna die and decided to fuck around and find out anyway... lol Sangy did not have to do that bs. And then for horus to turn around at the end and be like, "I'm sorry daddy for all the bad things I did, spank me!" And gets obliterated.... idk just didn't like how it sat
Could definitely see sangy coming back
@sleek wigeon this is facts. Ferrus would be a dope comeback
sleek wigeon
also because I want to see him roast his legion for becoming everything he was opposed to
crisp heath
For real lmao
crisp heath
This man is the voice of Wahammer 40k for me. That Ghazkul, my lord is fucking perfect
dense salmon
I'm down if you guys need a number 4
Sounds great
I will warn you I run throwing knives in auric
Either I'm cracked or I throw, depends on how my day is going lol
crisp heath
Lol no worries. More or less just lookin to have some fun with some people that play. Lol I've tried so hard to get my irl homies into it but I'm pretty sure they're prejudiced towards anything 40k at this point lolol
But yeah, nah. I'm not super anal or a try hard. I game to have fun lol.
dense salmon
If I wanted to be a meta player I wouldn't even touch zealot tbh
crisp heath
Facts lolol
I rock psycher or ogryn myself, just because they're the most fun and satisfying to me. I've made a character for each type though lol
crisp heath
Any class can carry if made and played right
crisp heath
I've noticed, and this is just my opinion, that the left side of each skill tree tends to lend more towards more outwardly offensive abilities
Whereas the far right is like specialist
dense salmon
The left keystone for zealot revolves around crits and cooldowns
crisp heath
And the middle is well, middle lol
green loom
I play all classes
dense salmon
I play zealot and veteran but I heavily prefer zealot
I just like chastise on a play by play basis
green loom
Chastise is very fun
Especially with fast weapons like crusher or heavy sword
On vet I enjoy everything except Left tree
dense salmon
Especially with fast weapons like crusher or heavy sword
Feels pretty good with Rashad or antax axes too
crisp heath
I down whenever so just let me know when yall are free and we can run it. I'm off today lol so no rush
@dense salmon @green loom @storm jungle
green loom
I'm off for like the next 3 weeks save art stuff so 
dense salmon
I'll be seeing my gf today so we can play when I get home
That'll probably be around 7 or 8 EST
We using one of the strike team channels?
green loom
Might be a bit late for me in CEST 
crisp heath
I'm central as well. But I like, never sleep due to insomnia so I'll be around
crisp heath
We using one of the strike team channels?
And yea, that'd probably be easiest
dense salmon
I used to have terrible insomnia too
Exercise and going to sleep around the same times helped a lot
I saw a mental health specialist in Annapolis
green loom
Do stuff = sleep fine
Don't do stuff = destroyed sleep schedule
crisp heath
Idk if yall are PC or not, but I'm Xbox myself unfortunately lol (I know I need to join the master race, working up to it 😅) so I figure that'd be easiest
dense salmon
I'm not picky buddy, no worries
remote blaze
Xbox is the master race
green loom
Frankly my PC teammates are as bad as my XBOX teammates so I stopped caring a long time ago
crisp heath
Unfortunately I don't see consoles lasting another decade, if half that...
remote blaze
I mean mobile is really, but we don't talk about it.
dense salmon
Frankly my PC teammates are as bad as my XBOX teammates so I stopped caring a lo...
The worst are people who just refuse to abuse coherency buffs
Coherency is so strong
green loom
Don't you have to like
dense salmon
Most people pick up coherency nodes and dont even realize it
green loom
Go out of your way not to be in coherency
rocky gale
Simple play zealot, be your own coherency
crisp heath
@green loom oh the people are absolutely garbage no matter where you go. The tech though is simply not equivalent anymore lol. PC can do stuff consoles can only dream of, and the thing that literally barely makes us equivalent, aim assist, is so stigmatized that it's being phased out. PC has every advantage you could ask for over console.
@green loom btw, you mentioned the other day a mission Wolfer hijacks our comms on, I emember you saying chasm terminus, but I feel like I've played three seperate missions there and haven't come across it. Do you remember which one it was?
There's like three or four seperate chasm terminus missions
green loom
Chasm Station Assassination with Morrow
crisp heath
Awesome! ill try some more lol
rocky gale
There's a couple of places in the mission where different lines can trigger, but for me one always triggers when you get to the big white room with a medicae station in it
The room has a name they reference in voicelines but I can't remember
Like the catechiser station or something
storm jungle
^
green loom
Which I'm guessing will be a theme from now on
storm jungle
Morrow has actual interactions with Wolfer
like telling him his team is the best and that they wont fail him
its very wholesome surprisingly
lmao
rocky gale
Aye, yea I've found that a Wolfer line always triggers in the catechiser post no matter which commentator you have
green loom
Well he can't downtalk his own guys when talking to his mortal enemy
Gotta save face you know? Like the one French movie taught me
crisp heath
@storm jungle see, this makes me want to hear it more!!!! I wanna make papa Morrow proud lol.
storm jungle
same
storm jungle
as Ed said it looks like they are going for this 2 mission announcers thing in some maps
which is really good, helps with the worldbuilding
green loom
storm jungle
im guessing Map 2 will have the same format
crisp heath
Yesss! I agree!
We need more of this, and preferably a bit more story and expansion to the groundbreaker
Looking at vermintide, this game has a long way to go, but damn am I excited and hopeful wih the direction it's been in
queen laurel
im guessing Map 2 will have the same format
i want to see in part 2 how i make him lose his mind as i proceed to pulverize five of his battalions in a single map
rocky gale
One of the lines that got me during the Carnival mission was during the Arena at the end where Wolfers like
"Why is this taking so long?"
and one of his guys is like
"We're trying our best Captain but there's atleast 60 Loyalists in there"
celest dome
Have a boxing fight where Morrow and Wolfer fight and we have to keep the Moebian at bay, but if you shoot at Wolfer Morrow just whip out a pistol and dome you
dense salmon
Morrow kind of looks like an old, bald don frye
The type to down some grog and just start throwing slugs
tulip brook
Morrow kind of looks like an old, bald don frye
so just bald don frye. he looks like he can barely speak nowadays
dense salmon
Sometimes it's easy to forget how much time has passed since the the 2000s
Slipped my mind that don frye is old now lol
soft thunder
Go out of your way not to be in coherency <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
that 25 stack of plasteel isn't going to add itself to my hoard
tulip brook
he's not that old but he definitely didn't age well
soft thunder
I really want to see morrow and wolfer box
whenever wolfer v morrow is brought up and I remember and appreciate the fact that it's the same voice actor
dense salmon
he's not that old but he definitely didn't age well
Sadly professional fighters rarely do
I actually am really interested in MMA but I don't want to deal with the long-term repercussions
I boxed in middle school and high school and always wanted to learn muay thai and BJJ
crisp heath
@dense salmon it's a lifestyle with a lot of sacrifices...
Fought for a few years, fucked up my knee really bad and had more concussions than anyone could count. And I was by no means prolific at all. Most of it was done in training.
Anyone that wants in, should get in. Everybody should learn a minimum of self defense. But to dive deep into any sort of mastery is to put your body on the line. This is not a sport, as much as it's made out to be.
dense salmon
I agree. People should know how to defend themselves, especially women and young adults. Things are crazy these days
I'm empathically anti-violence, but preparing for the worst case is rarely a bad idea
crisp heath
Why do some characters glow in the drop ship? Is it like a zealot thing?
median marsh
Zealots candles give off light
crisp heath
Ahhhh
It looks dope in the drop ship
Like they have a halo of the emperors light or some shizz
crisp heath
Lol as an Ogryn I'm always like "You's a glowy Sarge, raint ya. Must mean you's da best Sarge!"
My Ogryn I think tends to come off more Orkish, and 🤷♂️, I think I'm fine with it.
queen laurel
My Ogryn I think tends to come off more Orkish, and 🤷♂️, I think I'm fine with...
to be fair Ogryns can work as Mercenaries for Orks
Like the Lunkz Ladz of the Bad Krumpany
crisp heath
Knew it had to come from somewhere. Wonder if... what would the hybrid of an orc and ogryn be lol? Can you imagine the monstrosity?
queen laurel
Knew it had to come from somewhere. Wonder if... what would the hybrid of an orc...
an ork can grow larger and smarter than that hybrid so it's not really needed, but could be a result of genetic splicing for useful slaves I suppose
crisp heath
Well, here's my thoughts. Why wouldn't the hybrid be able to grow? Wouldn't it more or less mean they'd just come out already massive and with a headstart in the strength department? Maybe not so much the smarts.... here's something I found online where a dude made ogryn minatures into orcs
I guess it just is determined by what traits are expressed in the hybrid...
queen laurel
Well, here's my thoughts. Why wouldn't the hybrid be able to grow? Wouldn't it m...
Ork Biology ain't something to fuck with, they have hardy physiques sure but their DNA is also of course volatile, if you're not careful with the corpses you would spread their spores around without even knowing it
their spores have fought tyranid spores
crisp heath
Oh I know. This would not be beneficial to mankind lol