40k-lore-chat

[storm jungle]

is literally a Dark Souls villain

💀

[arctic talon]

Bretonian

[storm jungle]

THERE HE IS

[green loom]

Okay so

I may have to buy FEC

[arctic talon]

"A painters dream"

[crisp heath]

Lol my man's straight outta elden ring

[arctic talon]

also a fucking nightmare lol

GW what were you cooking

unironically an insane mini

[storm jungle]

as usual

Age of Sigmar stays winning

[nocturne crest]

Wait, are there new reveals?

[arctic talon]

yes

[crisp heath]

Like, I really need to look into fantasy lol

[arctic talon]

Age of Sigmar is balling

yet another common Age of Sigmar W

[crisp heath]

I also hear their "emperor" equivalent is pretty badass too

Ima guess his name is Sigmar?

[storm jungle]

Sigmar was the founder of the Empire

hes a good hearted barbarian king

and someone you can proudly say you'd die for

[arctic talon]

Kruleboyz for Underworlds

Sigmar sweeps emperor

in terms of being a person

[crisp heath]

Lol I also hear power levels are drastically reduced though. So I'm guessing everything in 40k pretty much sweeps fantasy in combat

[arctic talon]

Ehhhhh

AoS has batshit insane magic

the chaos gods regularly intervene in battles lol

In 40k its unheard of for khorne to smash some idiots

in AoS some random Khornate lord yells enough

[crisp heath]

Gods just kind of walk around in AoS

[arctic talon]

Khornes gona Smash a mountain lol

[crisp heath]

While this is true, isn't it because of the difference in power?

[arctic talon]

No

[storm jungle]

Nope

AoS is nuts

[arctic talon]

the chaos gods are just as strong magically

in fantasy the daemons were much weaker on average

then 40k

in AoS uh

They're horrifying lol

just like 40k

[green loom]

The good guys are much stronger than usual

[arctic talon]

^

[green loom]

But still lose

[crisp heath]

Also the skaven chew wormholes in the fabric of reality and ambush you with a million + rats

[arctic talon]

Order has been given Thunder Warriors Stormcast

And also a variety of other things

The average stormcast is fucking huge lol

and very strong

oh killteam

wait

nvm its HH

[crisp heath]

I hate stormcasts more than marines tbh, it feels like there's nothing compelling about them

I thought the gods and everything where more powerful in 40k because there was just more. More worlds, more planets, more devotion, more things feeding them. And that's why they couldn't break into realspace as easy as they could in fantasy. I guess equivalency wise, they're still gods, so they are going to be stronger then what's around them. But I just thought that's how it worked and one of the differences between the different settings

[arctic talon]

AoS has different magic rules

so to speak

[storm jungle]

AoS is spread across 9 realms, the problem is this makes everyone a lot more OP while still being packed together, its why literal gods, demi-gods and massive demons walk the battlefield a lot more.

[arctic talon]

I like stormcast because they start off very human and slowly go more insane and derranged overtime

before they uh

aren't

[crisp heath]

Like genuinely immortal, but the only real consequences they face is going insane if they get recast too many times, but that happens on such a long timescale that we'll probably never see it on a named character unless it's baked in to their character at the start

It just feels low stakes me

[arctic talon]

marine jump scare

[crisp heath]

Ok, I gotcha. I'm really gonna have to check this ish out lolol

[arctic talon]

3 reforgings and then they're pretty much not human anymore tbf

I don't think any of the named stormcast characters have been through more then one

[umbral nymph]

BEAKIES

[crisp heath]

Also I like the setting, hate the Legally Distinct name scheme

[arctic talon]

yeah fair

I fucking hate Oruuk

[green loom]

Blacktalon h as died a lot

[arctic talon]

💀

Blacktalon is built different

[storm jungle]

Holy shit, Generic Space Marines!

NEXT

[arctic talon]

I want to see the command squad

[crisp heath]

Sylvaneth get it right though, they really feel like a new faction that inherited the role of Wood Elves

[arctic talon]

assault marines boring

Sylvaneth ironically have like

the most named character deaths lol

[crisp heath]

But Orruk are like... bruh call them orcs

[arctic talon]

its kinda funny how often they die

Oh

Necromunda

Police brutality

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/713403094708387841/1175277535089672322/image.png?ex=656aa57f&is=6558307f&hm=b7c845bb26e25d93a2bdc7ee99de717bce3ec6a8fa8f1e62f10255cf1a94b16e&=&width=1227&height=670

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-gif-26166638

[storm jungle]

Ayo

Enforcers going HARD

[arctic talon]

STOP RESISTING

YOU HAVE 5 SECONDS TO COMPLY

[crisp heath]

I feel like that's just asking for it's wheels to be shot out

[arctic talon]

its a civllian vehicle technically

just retrofitted

besides they're gunning down gangers

[storm jungle]

its a model from Forgeworld WAAAAY back in the day

[umbral nymph]

why do enforcers have the right mind to put the barrel infront of the gunner instead of this heresy

[arctic talon]

Literally like stealing candy from children

except

its beating the crap out of people

"the police force is horrifically corrupt"

wow

[crisp heath]

I love how many deaf marines their vehicles make

[arctic talon]

who could have guessed lol

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/713403094708387841/1175278050271842354/image.png?ex=656aa5fa&is=655830fa&hm=316ae36dd6295c7e73d57e1303414ee40d882313e9929dbb50f90fc26d4f5ddb&=&width=902&height=502

This art is cool

[crisp heath]

Who needs vision when the Emperors Glorious Hellfire is reigning down on your enemies

[arctic talon]

You can see Cawdor walkers in the background lol

[viral halo]

Give me the old world or give me death John warhammer

[umbral nymph]

Primaris helmets must have MAD noise cacnelling

[arctic talon]

Now its killteam

lol

We haven't even gotten

Scouts vs Scorps yet

[storm jungle]

best I can do is more shitty reused miniatures from 2005

[crisp heath]

Marines getting the Baneblade treatment finally

[arctic talon]

WHAT THE FUCK

NIGHT LORDS?

[viral halo]

That’s good for me

[crisp heath]

I'm still mad they made the termagants less cute

[arctic talon]

HUH

WHA

[crisp heath]

Termagants are babies

[storm jungle]

NIGHT LIRDS

CALLED IT

[umbral nymph]

BRO

[crisp heath]

Who needs ears when the Emperors Righteous Roaring Gunfire creates such sweet melodies amongst the heretics?

[storm jungle]

NIGHT LORDS

NO MANDRAKES

GOD DAMN IT

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/blade-runner2049-blade-runner-angry-god-damnit-confused-gif-15118091

[umbral nymph]

The Edgy Slavs are back

[arctic talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/713403094708387841/1175278925329485854/image.png?ex=656aa6cb&is=655831cb&hm=cd9681eaf7eeb875727df4297f9f1e82253bc1e2b088da2de9bda46c10e3ecb2&=&width=1072&height=670

[green loom]

Yet

[umbral nymph]

Is that a dead astartes on that guys banner

[green loom]

Ye

[arctic talon]

this guy is almost a 1 to 1 of the Corsair mini lol

[storm jungle]

has the body ports yep

[arctic talon]

pose wise

yeah

they're fractured

this is just some small group

[crisp heath]

Anyone wanna run some DT with me?

[umbral nymph]

meh hope hes from the marines malevolent or something

[arctic talon]

drip

[storm jungle]

Loyalists make the best decors

[arctic talon]

Shiny

anymore for KT?

I want more

[crisp heath]

They're the antagonists of the first Carcharodons book and they're terrifying

[storm jungle]

bruh this cant be it

its KT

they need to show their opposing side/enemy

[arctic talon]

There was a delay in production

is the issue

[storm jungle]

💀

[arctic talon]

Scouts and Scorps got delayed

this might be a oh shit

[storm jungle]

yeah but they did get revealed together

[arctic talon]

yeah

true

[storm jungle]

copium time

[arctic talon]

fuck

thats it for KT

old world

Tomb kings

[storm jungle]

WOW

[arctic talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/713403094708387841/1175279898848399381/image.png?ex=656aa7b3&is=655832b3&hm=4b8f0cb1f32deff3759df6622df5246df7a9d892f09aec70b7596082a697fe9a&=&width=1183&height=670

Sand

[crisp heath]

What's that?

[storm jungle]

Tomb kings

[arctic talon]

Tomb Kings, Warhammer Fantasy

[storm jungle]

fantasy egyptians

[crisp heath]

So like fantasy's necrons?

[arctic talon]

that square base is fucking huge lol

[crisp heath]

I think they're a fantasy ripoff of newcrons

[arctic talon]

Think even pettier

[storm jungle]

I think thats

a giant crocodile?

[arctic talon]

and also they have like

living people under them still

because nagash did the funny

[crisp heath]

Look a like a dragon to me

[arctic talon]

the head is very crocadillian

[crisp heath]

A giant croc with back foot wings?

It has wings

[viral halo]

Dude I’d eat that square base

[green loom]

It's a dragon but it's meant to be more like a croc

[arctic talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/713403094708387841/1175280378060226671/image.png?ex=656aa825&is=65583325&hm=baf1a30f829fd3a0c3a937296fb25e0b6f54ae9a69e18b5ca4b47d7657a36abc&=&width=1192&height=670

sand

woe be upon ye

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-sand-funny-gif-14876749

[green loom]

Today truly was a day of sexhammer

[arctic talon]

https://tenor.com/view/pharoah's-curse-pharoah-curse-gif-9768609729181577113

Two for one box lol

it comes with an extra guy

good conversion fodder as well

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-like-sand-pocket-sand-anakin-gif-18419382

Lol I have no idea what's going on but I feel like this fits

[arctic talon]

but the tomb kings are pretty funny as a faction

everyone in Khemri got revived by Nagash

and a ton of nobles all had the right to rule

legally

[storm jungle]

Lmao

[arctic talon]

Father, Son, Daughter, granddaughter

ect.

[green loom]

So that's why they're Tomb Kings

[arctic talon]

Sucession law

was absolutely fucking shattered lol

[storm jungle]

they

if you will

are Kings of Tombs

[arctic talon]

grandpa finding out his great great grand daughter thinks he's an idiot and tore down his statues

[green loom]

I'll shove you into a tomb

[arctic talon]

while her great great grand son thought she was an idiot

and tore down her statues

[storm jungle]

if only it was like that IRL

[arctic talon]

lol

[crisp heath]

All I know is that Settra is the maddest possible lad

[crisp heath]

Then she'd be a Tomb Queen

[arctic talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/713403094708387841/1175280886065926264/Screenshot_20231118-034259.png?ex=656aa89e&is=6558339e&hm=4fa95af0ba853c89b05a38ab73636408d894fdaf2a58d7f16467d3b24d183fea&=&width=1440&height=647

there's a cat

best kit

[green loom]

I'm waiting for a bait and switch

[crisp heath]

Bone cat, I like tomb kings now

[arctic talon]

nagash would be a very weird mini in Old world

chronologically

[crisp heath]

Finally getting into painting has taught me I cannot be trusted with nice minis because I have the overwhelming impulse to put them in my mouth

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah also @verbal path heres your sticker lmao

[crisp heath]

Were you watching the chat like a gargoyle trying to find the right moment to debut it

[storm jungle]

nah I just went and posted it on general-chat

then left because they were whining about something i didnt even bother reading again

[crisp heath]

Uh oh

[spare osprey]

what is with the MM slander

[verbal path]

[green loom]

@storm jungle think this is Miguel again?

Style looks right

[dense salmon]

it does have his look

i don't know how to describe miguel other than everything he makes looks like an oil painting

[storm jungle]

100% him

[dense salmon]

i love that the talent trees use his art

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffgogozn7q2r91.jpg

[storm jungle]

hes great, still posting DT concept art on his instagramm

[dense salmon]

cursed embed

very talented, nails the 40k artstyle

[green loom]

I'm hoping to learn from his style a bit still

Just love his art

[crisp heath]

I love hazard stripes in 40k

I see hazard stripes, I smile

[dense salmon]

Boy do I have a legion for you

[crisp heath]

There are some bad hazard stripes

[crisp heath]

I already acknowledged that the stripes can be blasphemed

[potent swift]

Ok that clinches it, I'm gonna have to find space for an FEC army now

[dense salmon]

I'm probably gonna start putting hazard stripes on my leman russes

[nocturne crest]

Thoughts on the nightlords kill team?

[arctic talon]

different setting, different faction

no

[dense salmon]

https://youtu.be/Hrv0VWvhZHk?si=p_Ri-h8vTYuX9_Kd

Awesome video

[arctic talon]

lol

Wish I could grow a beard

[nocturne crest]

I can now hold out hope for a Iron Warriors Kill Team.

[crisp heath]

Is there a way to change your characters name after the fact?

In darktide?

Are shirtless minis something people want?

Also the dead astarte on the new Night Lord banner is shirtless. A finger curls on the monkeys paw.

[echo vault]

I think all the mortarchs have models now since Ushoran is back

The Flesh eater courts codex looks great

Pulling this out at my local game store to scare the shit out of some poor kid

[storm jungle]

Lmfao

"family friendly"

[potent swift]

I do appreciate how most of these Ghouls have actual loincloths instead of the Beastflayers outrageous body hair

[rose thorn]

The new flesh eater courts is

Beautiful

I’m literally gonna cry

[rose thorn]

I am about to lose 200 usd

[echo vault]

my local game store still has a bunch of the release boxes for the lumineth and one called "Vanari Shining Host" and its tempting to not plan out how to make 600+ dollars for this army

[arctic talon]

Don't think so

[potent swift]

Maybe the barber guy?

[celest dome]

ATM there isn't. But it's planned to be possible

[soft thunder]

anyone know what that big skull tower computer thing is called in the hourglass mission?

[grave sparrow]

Servitor Colony?

Or servo skull colony

[soft thunder]

the serve skull colony is was it is? it's the big pillar of servo skull things

Hadron said it was the only of it's kind on Atoma or something

[celest dome]

#🐦tweets-sermons message

Servitor colony

[surreal sleet]

Can servitors rebel or they are fucked forever?

[crisp heath]

I believe they're generally screwed

[shadow plover]

I know of one instance where servitors rebelled and that was because of some magic faith mumbojumbo

[crisp heath]

However, there have been many instances of a serviter keeping its mental faculties well past its lobotomy.

[shadow plover]

where one servitor pretty much regained consciousness and thus could think for themselves and then spread the same affection onto other servitors later

[celest dome]

If they are properly done they aren't sentient

[soft thunder]

unless the admech having it done are feeling particularly malicious

Ya, a the medicae servitors have lines where they show some scraps of sentience left. Making someone a servitor is probably a common punishment.

[drifting jacinth]

Servitors usually aren't even sentient to begin with, most are vat-grown bodies with just enough brain to not be an artificial intelligence

Turning someone into one is a punishment that goes from "basically death" to "everlasting torture" depending on the techpriest who does it

[tulip brook]

even if they are sentient and they rebel, their brain and bodies are modified to such a degree that they can fulfill just one purpose

not that threatening unless that purpose is beating the shit out of people

even then, they would be useless after said beating

[drifting jacinth]

I mean I'd assume some servitors who (somehow) habe their brain intact can probably live a mostly normal life
Like, loader servitors, or the ones that sell you shit in dt's hub

They have legs and arms, they just look weird

[green loom]

They go through a lobotomy in the process lol

And get butchered more or less

[drifting jacinth]

Probably not comfortable lives though I'd assume pain isn't a factor

[green loom]

Their brain is fucked for sure

[drifting jacinth]

Hence the somehow

[green loom]

Problem is, there's always something of you left in there, because if there isn't

It's considered blasphemy

So say it doesn't effect you as much and you remain mostly aware
You won't have a good time

[drifting jacinth]

Yep

Kinda wild that the empire is mostly founded on medical science

Servitors, rejuvenat, space marines

Bionics

[green loom]

Emps was first and foremost a geneticist iirc

[drifting jacinth]

I always assumed he was at the top of every field, but he deffo focussed there

[green loom]

Pre Emps his title was "The Master of the Lines" since he'd restore people who's genes were fucked by radiation

[green loom]

I mean he had his hands in a lot but was majorly imperfect in all of them

Even with marines the Bulk of the Work wasn't done by him

A ton of random scientists contributed and also the Selenar Genecults

[drifting jacinth]

Well yeah
Didn't he also make like, his weapons ?

[celest dome]

The only weapon which does have some lore mentioning being invented by the Emp is the Bolter, and it's dubious

[green loom]

Because there's like 3 million variants of the thing

[tepid frigate]

Is Sigmar considered a chaos god in 40k?

[hallow plover]

He's the triplet of Alpharius and Omegon

Sigmarius

[coarse pumice]

No

[celest dome]

He is not in 40k

[tepid frigate]

Whack, ive been bamboozled

[crisp heath]

Ah I thought he was Master of the Lines because of his notorious coke habit

[green loom]

[near wasp]

That explains how fulgrim fell

[dense salmon]

I had a dream last night that the nickname "master of the lines" actually referred to poetry

[green loom]

I like to think it actually refers to just rhyming

Big E was actually just a rapper

[near wasp]

I mean who else would call themselves Big E

I bet he hates Eminem

[winged jacinth]

the emperor was the guy who managed the queues at disneyland

(that's where he first discovered chaos)

[dense salmon]

I wonder how bad Detroit was during the unification wars

[verbal path]

Can't have shit in Detroit

They stole my power armor

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/detroit-driveby-eminem-gif-24008106

[crisp heath]

Wait, where is his from? Is this like, confirmed? I've always been hella interested in the life of the Emperor and thought anything pre-imperium was mostly theory except like a few key things, like putting the Void dragon on mars

[median marsh]

same as regular detroit

[green loom]

The Great Work by Guy Haley

You get snippets into "Cawl"s memory

[crisp heath]

Definitely gonna have to check it out

[green loom]

One of the people he merged with met the Emperor before everything went down

[crisp heath]

Wait is cawl that old?

[green loom]

Oh yea

[median marsh]

he is ancient

[green loom]

Cawl's been around since the heresy

He was an Admech war hero iirc

[crisp heath]

Would have figured it was ol what's his name.... the mechanicus dude that sacrificed himself...

[green loom]

One of the higher up scientists that worked on the Astartes wanted to merge with him to prolong his life

The idea was for him to overwrite cawl but that didn't work out

[crisp heath]

But.... the heresy happened long after the imperium formed right? Time line wise? Was he around before the imperium even began?

[green loom]

So Cawl just had all his memories

[green loom]

The person in question used illegal rejuv treatments harvested from a xenos protectorate

[crisp heath]

Oh shit thats right cawls an amalgam

[green loom]

He was getting desperate because said race got farmed to extinction for it

And this is like, more or less the immediate aftermath of the Heresy

[crisp heath]

Right right makes sense now. I always forget cawl is like, 30 people in one.

[green loom]

Yap

Great Work is also a nice book

Also has some interesting necron stuff

[tulip brook]

that same story also points out cawl might be 30 people in one but cawl himself is on the driving seat

[crisp heath]

Can't believe I forgot Malcador's name

[tulip brook]

emprah calls him cawl about a century before it happens

[green loom]

Yeap

[crisp heath]

I sincerely believe the Emperor's Foresight is now just his warp self guiding him retrospectively. That's how he can be so spot on millenia in the past about the future, and so far off in the present. His sons think he sees the future with extreme clarity because they can see vague visions themselves, and know he must be more powerful. But he himself states that it's like staring at the horizon, knowing what's there, knowing the vast multitudes of how to get there, and not knowing which is best. Or something along those lines... I think he doesn't have "Foresight". I think, as all things exist in the warp perpetually, and we know he is somewhat a God now for lack of a better term, I believe instead it's that warp self that's been guiding from the very beginning, ensuring its existence comes to pass.

[tulip brook]

yeah that's an interpretation. if it works for you

[green loom]

We know for 40k that things aren't going to happen as foretold all the time

[tulip brook]

40k foresight isn't that reliable all around

[green loom]

Konrad for example always saw multiple futures

[tulip brook]

not for eldars, not for primarch, not for big e or chaos stuff

[crisp heath]

But there's a difference. So like. Of all the Foresight we see, there is 3 or 4 types

[queen laurel]

Yeah foresight is better use as a ability to see only a few minutes or a few seconds into the future

[crisp heath]

There's selective, where you only see one possible future.

[queen laurel]

Short duration forsight is always helpful

[crisp heath]

There's the multiple choice, where there multiple ways things could play out

There's tzeentch, who can do both at any point perfectly

[tulip brook]

curze is famous for predicting the worst outcome out of everything he sees

[crisp heath]

And then there's the emperor, who's somewhere between all these

[green loom]

Technically speaking it's Kairos that can do that

[crisp heath]

Both 🤷‍♂️

[green loom]

Well yeah he has two heads

Would it be Kairoses?

[tulip brook]

mortarion slowly getting lost on time, having struggle with realizing what's happening in present

[queen laurel]

Yeah it was said he can't see on the past but how do you even exploit that if he can still predict what the hell you can do

[crisp heath]

Point still remains that those are the broad ways in which foresight is shown in 40k, and the emperor doesn't follow any of these

[green loom]

No Kairos can see the past and future, but he's blind to the present
Or something stupid

[queen laurel]

Oh yeah that my bad

[crisp heath]

Instead it seems like sometimes he can do one, sometimes he can do the other, and sometimes he's just lost

[queen laurel]

But how do you exploit his weakness for present

If he can predict what the hell you are going to do

[verbal path]

Punch him in the face right now

[green loom]

You go up and stab him ig

[queen laurel]

Eh good enough

[crisp heath]

Technically, you'd have to have escaped his notice until present

[warm notch]

Why did the Emperor of Mankind craft 40k warhammers

Is he stupid

That’s a comical amount of warhammers

[green loom]

Yes

[crisp heath]

You exploit it by him not knowing you exist to predict you'd do something

[tulip brook]

see if the guy is afraid of you, if he isn't, don't fight

[warm notch]

There is a traitor Among Us

[verbal path]

There's nothing wrong with having 40k warhammers

[crisp heath]

Same as any marvel reality warper like Franklin Richards. Long as they don't know you exist prior to your attack, you'll have a chance

[queen laurel]

Hmm that can work

[tulip brook]

or good old lion's way, be so good at it they can't avoid even if they see it coming

[echo vault]

@tulip brook
Typus: Hey father time to raze the imperium in grandfather's name:
Mortarian

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-27377993

[stray bluff]

What are the weapons shes carrying? Bolt Rifle/Pistol? Chainsword or Eviscerator?

[storm jungle]

Godwyn De'az bolter and a chainsword

[stray bluff]

Is the Bolter in DT a Godwyn?

Sorry for asking

[green loom]

No

We get old Locke Patterns

[echo vault]

Can regular vampire lords ride one of these or is it just the strigoi

Or at least a living version of this

[celest dome]

Ours is the second

[vagrant fox]

Looks like a Locke or something

[stray bluff]

Thanks for the replies

[celest dome]

1st is a Godwyn Deaz, second is a Locke (What we have)

[patent ivy]

Godwyn is the OG one too, right?

[safe vigil]

I think so whilst the Deaz variant is sized and used by the sisters of battle

I think in the rpg books they are single / double shots in semi auto

I like the idea that Sisters are more marksmen placing drilled shots into the enemy rather then mag dumping

[tawdry mist]

oh shit. that's the first time I've seen her talk. She reveal anything cool?

[storm jungle]

Because it is the first time Brahms talks

also not really, just acts professional

[scenic bolt]

Also kind of establishes by the way she and Hadron speak to each other that Brahms has authority only a scratch below Grendyl if not functionally equal to

[storm jungle]

Yeah she is the shipmistress for a reason

[shadow plover]

Besides the opening cinematic 🤓

[storm jungle]

shut up you know what I mean

[shadow plover]

it is the 41st millenium...

[marsh berry]

[spacebar]

[winter vessel]

Finally did the carnival mission where Brahms is talking, I smirked when I heard and saw how Hadron acted in the Shipmistress’ presence.

[storm jungle]

Its good to see her know her fucking place for once

also the whole

"Ah yes sarcasm, the last resort of-"

bitch you act completely the same

[verbal path]

https://tenor.com/view/filthy-frank-know-your-place-implicit-gif-26537479

[storm jungle]

LEGIT.

[random stump]

Captain Wolfar also

[celest dome]

I need a mission with both Brahms and Hallowette, maybe with Melk

[marsh berry]

Morrow

[near wasp]

Wait i was under the impression brahms was grendyl using an alisis that was the impression i got from the opening cinimatic

[random stump]

Grendyl is this old fellow in a trenchcoat

Brahms is the old lady seen on the first cinematic

[green loom]

We don't know what Grendyl looks like

[safe vigil]

Grendly is the holographic face on the robot body

trenchcoat is morrow

[green loom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5FAnTdoZ4c&ab_channel=Gatlee

[safe vigil]

I think Grendly is just a non-entity

[random stump]

The man with a mustache and a detective trenchcoat is grendyl

I thought

[safe vigil]

nu-uh

[green loom]

That's Sergeant Major Vinny Morrow

[marsh berry]

That's Morrow

[near wasp]

[safe vigil]

space kruber

[storm jungle]

Brahms is the Rogue Trader that Grendyl called in and have her ship act as a hub for a base of operations.

Its a classic Dark Heresy RPG tactic

Inquisitors tend to always have some rogue trader "pal" from back in the day that they call for a favor lol

[near wasp]

Thank you

[safe vigil]

Inquisitors and Rogue Traders going hand in hand is a real trope

I think Ciaphias Cane references when he first meets amberly vale

Grendly is an example of a decentralized inquisitor who more so has a private army of Inquisitorial agents and acolytes spread out across the sector

in comparison to the James Bondy Inquisitors like Eisenhorn

[green loom]

We're only in the warband because they need more bodies on Atoma too

[marsh berry]

Psyker with a power sword 2 minutes in

[green loom]

I figure he has multiple similar warbands running around the Domain

[safe vigil]

Yeah, the Inquisitorial Guardsmen we see jumping out of the valkryies at the end of certain missions

would be his like offical troopers whilst we're just expendable convicts

[green loom]

Those aren't our henchguys

[safe vigil]

I think... in theory the idea of sending out convicts to stem the tide is okay

[green loom]

Those are Moebians

You can tell cus they're blue/grey

The Warband is Red/Black

[safe vigil]

You might be right since they have the grey uniforms whilst the troopers on the ship are in red and black

aye e

[green loom]

And we know Rannick has local regis working under him

The main equivalent to the 6th being the 21st that we're getting cosmetics for

[safe vigil]

he does have proper troopers though, aside from the troopers we see on board

I think atleast

[green loom]

Ye

There's like maybe 10 troopers in the hub?

But you see more in the cutscenes

+Rogue Trader crew

[safe vigil]

The idea of sending a flood of convicts out to stem the tide is okay

but I wonder how much actionable intelligence is wasted on no-hopers

[green loom]

I mean a lot of us are fairly competent convicts too

[soft thunder]

The 21st are normally stationed on Incron, but just happened to be on Atoma getting supplies or something when everything hit the fan. They are usually to fighting in cramped, soggy, hives.

[green loom]

Ogryn by default are useful, Veterans are Veterans, Psykers are always dangerous

The only ones iffy are the hobo zealots

[storm jungle]

Rabs carrying the entire untold lore of background Darktide lore on their back 💀

[soft thunder]

Those are most ofthe ppl stationed on Atoma that u see on the map during missions

[safe vigil]

your the imperial agent of wrymwood who spent years risking life limb and soul to find a gap in the armor of th earch enemy

[soft thunder]

It's mostly from the 21st item descriptions for veteran and psyker

that arent released yet

[safe vigil]

and they send Doug Digby and Scrug the Orgyn to blunder their way into ambush after ambush with weapons scrapped off the floor of the armory

[verbal path]

Speaking of armor when can I take one of the PDF's Demolisher

[near wasp]

Average dark souls fan

[soft thunder]

honestly

[verbal path]

Gimme one and Wolfer'll be a thing of the past

[safe vigil]

stiil wearing their bright convict overalls

[green loom]

Against the most decorated Moebian regiment

[safe vigil]

and their innumerable hordes of poxwalkers

the information war was a nice touch

[green loom]

Tbf they probably send more in actuality

But for gameplay reasons there's only 4 of us

[verbal path]

The horde the trailer guard faced would've been an easy clap for players

[marsh berry]

skill issue

[soft thunder]

I want to know where the moebian 33rd are. Those were the Margrave's personal regiment back in M36 and probably still are. Maybe the Margraves are holding them all in reserve in the upper hive?

[verbal path]

We're built different (plot armor)

[safe vigil]

Same was the case for vermintide

I like to think though

the reason our guys survive for so long is because Khorne is watching them

like in both games, you get toughness back for kills

like the temp health in vermintide should have been red and not grey

[verbal path]

Toughness is your indomitable human spirit

[safe vigil]

It could be both, Khornes favor and the literal power of friendship since you regen it around your mates

[verbal path]

I need no chaos god influence. I've got the indomitable will of humanity and the Emperor behind me

😤

[celest dome]

Work differntly
U5 have plot armour and are heroes
The Reject die plenty, we are looking at the one that survive

[soft thunder]

the chaos god of holding hands

[safe vigil]

yeah thats why I said our guys
plot armor and heros are two meta terms that don't give in word justifications

You could say 'its written that way'

but wheres the fun in that

[marsh berry]

Maybe it's like XCOM

Where the only canon runs are the ones that fail horribly

[safe vigil]

The only canon runs are the ones I save-scum the hell out of

Playing Long War 2, even when I was winning every engagement i was still getting outpaced by the enemy technology

man I suck at Long War 2

[arctic talon]

Ubersriek 5 by VT2 are much higher level tbh

They’re literally hero units

All around

[verbal path]

Ya. The U5 could be really powerful. A Warrior Priest, a Grail Knight, an Ironbreaker, a Waystalker and a Battle Wizard.

[celest dome]

GK and IB aren't hero units

[verbal path]

Meant more they're heads and shoulders above standard soldiers, especially in fluff

[near wasp]

I mean us rejects die all the time. I failed like 4 missions in a row this week

[verbal path]

New mode for Darktide, permadeath

[winged jacinth]

Barrel boss is too strong

I think i've probably died to barrel launches more than any other cause combined

[crisp heath]

I would cry

[crisp heath]

Actually was thinking about this todau

Would be neat, ironman characters

It'd be great, if you could rely on teammates to put effort in getting you up half the time

Such is the challenge of iron man runs

[desert dust]

As zealot I have died mostly to trappers when I'm been attacked by bulwarks and crushers because they don't seem to play audio cues 50% of the time and I can't see past ogryns

[thick cedar]

How do Psykers learn new powers (Spells?) like whats the training process

[storm jungle]

Just get trained by a superior psyker

theres "limit/cap" for Imperial psykers however

compared to someone like Ahriman who can virtually just do any spell

[thick cedar]

whats the training process like though

[storm jungle]

Not really detailed too much.

can be anything from locking you in a room and instructing you to do specific diciplines to just one on one sessions with a superior psyker to see if you got the will to cast stuff without exploding or be sent off to the Throne to die

[nocturne crest]

Anyone got an idea what the redacted codex will be about?

[storm jungle]

Emperor's Children probably

[spare osprey]

EC tho there are a few (delusional) peeps who are thinkin dark mech

[storm jungle]

thats hella mad copium

[spare osprey]

to the highest degree yes

[storm jungle]

I'd understand it more if darkmech had any presedence or like hint but yeah

[near wasp]

i mean to be fair thats like the only other option

[nocturne crest]

Inb4 it's a word bearer codex.

[storm jungle]

Nah

Word Bearers got no god

[green loom]

Word Bearers are just red Black Legion

[storm jungle]

^

E.Children are the only god-based army left

and they werent in the last chaos codex

entirely removed

[nocturne crest]

How dare you say that, despite it being true.

[green loom]

The Monogod ones are all pretty deviant, but undivided has a fairly consistent style

[storm jungle]

^

its all about tabletop presentation

[nocturne crest]

Yeah, EC makes the most sense.

[green loom]

I hear some rumblings about a BA rework

[nocturne crest]

I do wonder if they'll give BA a Baal repulsor.

Basically a Baal Predator, but it's a Repulsor instead.

If they ever made female space marines tied to one chapter and their successor, which would make the most sense.

[green loom]

How the fuck did we go from tanks to this

[nocturne crest]

I'm got a pinball like brain.

[storm jungle]

Literally any

Its just women in armor like guys in armor

focusing on their gender so much would be weird

[green loom]

There's already no "why" for it

The only reasoning we have is 4chan and r/40klore having a moment

And Bile saying it's dumb that they can only be guys(chad)

[storm jungle]

LMAO

Bile having the sigma grindset

"Surgeon tables should be Rated-E for Everybody."

[nocturne crest]

Bile deserves a codex of his own.

[storm jungle]

Mfer invented like half the chaos range at this point

[echo vault]

Best 40k transport? (This is 30k but shush)

[storm jungle]

Leman Box

[echo vault]

It's a malcador but longe

Well not longe

Transporty, leman Russ but longe that's the true comparison

[storm jungle]

A MALCADOR IS LITERALLY ALSO A LEMAN RUSS

[echo vault]

Ermm

They are older

[nocturne crest]

But it's named after someone higher.

[storm jungle]

Leman Russ came first in 40k mini-wise

in-universe timelines can suck it

[echo vault]

But can a leman Russ use a titan sized weapon?

[storm jungle]

[echo vault]

Behold

Why is it so small

[storm jungle]

Goofy ah gas-car

[echo vault]

What if just the tank falls off a cliff do they even have any to shoot

[nocturne crest]

Can it be blow up like a hellhound?

[echo vault]

Probably

The malcadors I love because they're just really stupid WW1 tanks

[wet sandal]

Malcador and Russ were friends in lore so it's all good👍

[echo vault]

Like copy pasted

[thick cedar]

Ayo?

[winter vessel]

It’s like a sibling dynamic. The big tank is the brother that is well respected by others, and then it’s got the gas car that it hates having it ride on their coat tails( the lame brother)

[echo vault]

#saveourmalcadors they're not doing so good in 40k even in vraks they're like ancient

[echo vault]

But fit the death korps wayyy more

[echo vault]

The human predator (wait)

Carnodon

[nocturne crest]

https://tenor.com/view/mister-electric-send-him-principals-gif-24418029

[storm jungle]

MR ELECTRIC KILL THEM

Oh wait im Mr. Electric in this case

[nocturne crest]

Ngl, but I do like the design of the Solar Auxilia's vehicles.

[echo vault]

The stormhammer is probably my favorite baneblade variant

[nocturne crest]

Can you imagine if they gave the guard the Rhino and it's variants and full committed to space marines using repulsors and land raiders?

[arctic talon]

Rhino is an inferior transport for the guard

Chimera serves its purpose better

The rhino would be good for elite guard forces

But it would be useless for guardsmen

[nocturne crest]

Like the Scions?

[arctic talon]

Scions would most likely use it yeah

only issue with the Rhino in the guard is that like

The Chimera and Taurox exist already

and both of those serve the purpose of the guard better then the Rhino

also when GW started letting factions ally transports and use them a lot of marine lists used Chimera's instead of Rhino's which was pretty funny

[nocturne crest]

Lol

But why?

[arctic talon]

Better guns, same cost, more capacity, more durable

[nocturne crest]

Huh.

[arctic talon]

Chimera’s are very durable

[nocturne crest]

I kind of thought it would be the opposite with the rhino.

[arctic talon]

Rhinos are faster(in lore)

[verbal path]

Malcador defender my beloved.

[arctic talon]

And hold a lot of supplies

Extra ammo

And such

The chimera is pretty cramped

[nocturne crest]

Huh.

[arctic talon]

Also is designed for human use not marines

[nocturne crest]

IIRC, the Malcador defender is the only Malcador still used by the guard and not the pdf

[storm jungle]

Well

was

after Forgeworld Imperial Armor went kaput nobody remembers these exist now

💀

[nocturne crest]

Aw

[arctic talon]

Lol

[verbal path]

Some Guard still use some of the variants but that's rare.

The defender was stupidly weird back when firing arcs existed.

[storm jungle]

Nah like these arent rare vehicles

its more that the writers dont care

[verbal path]

Well, rare for Guard to use

They're not good.

mmm yes flamethrower tank

[hallow schooner]

In the new carnival mission if the mission leader is Morrow, you can hear dialogue from the Traitor Captain

[arctic talon]

Yep

[storm jungle]

https://youtu.be/gJ6h-2KSoB8

[verbal path]

Wolfer

[arctic talon]

Karnak twins when

[nocturne crest]

So quick question, but is it only the hellhound that can explode or can the banewolf do so as well?

[green loom]

So Wolfer talks a ton now on Chasm Terminuys

[verbal path]

In lore or tabletop?

[nocturne crest]

Either.

[arctic talon]

All imperial vehicles can explode

[verbal path]

Tabletop they all can

Lorewise, I don't think the hellhound's particularly more likely to

Since its uparmored to make up for the risk of carrying fuel

[arctic talon]

The hellhound is known for particularly nasty explosions

When it cooks off

But yeah it’s less likely to cook off

[verbal path]

Unless the crew were idiots and overfilled it with more fuel to burn

Then you die

[arctic talon]

Craftworld Eldar vehicles lore wise don’t really explode

[verbal path]

Banewolves don't explode catastrophically like that but if their stuff is breached and leaking

💀

[arctic talon]

So much as they cause a psychic like

Shockwave

There’s no heat involved technically

Dark eldar vehicles explode violent

Same with Necrons

Any sort of command necron vehicle explodes incredibly violently

As a final fuck you to the enemy

Tau vehicles are like imperial ones regarding explosions

don't happen unless something goes wrong

[thick cedar]

Would healing via biomancy be more viable than conventional healing if the emprahs spider web wasnt fucked?

[arctic talon]

Yes

you can regrow limbs via biomancy

imperial medical science can't regrow it straight on you

[nocturne crest]

Do the sisters of battle still have access to the repressor in their codex?

[molten swan]

I don’t think so but they still “use” them apparently in the lore

Arbites still use them too

[arctic talon]

Its in legends

it used to be imperial armor

it got discontinued a long ass time ago

so it got sent to legends instead of being sent straight to hell

[nocturne crest]

Tbh, I could see the repressor being added to necromunda.

[molten swan]

Taken on the black ships > eventually linked (if you aren’t sacrificed to the Emperor) to the Emperor, then someone from the Adeptus Astra Telepathica will train you up in whatever skills you show, so if you show skills in biomancy or pyromancy etc, they’ll find a superior who can guide you in the right direction

Then it’s off to the races, avoiding daemons for the rest of your life

[nocturne crest]

They did that recently with that new Necromunda vehicle from the guard.

[molten swan]

Yeah those stinky enforcers got a Tauros

[nocturne crest]

Next thing you know, they'll be getting a malcador in black and yellow.

[dense salmon]

i always wondered if primarch regeneration was just latent biomancy

the extent to which they can regenerate and the injuries they recover from vary so much that it's a little hard to say

magnus mentions he could regenerate his missing eye if he really wanted to through sorcery

[storm jungle]

he was self-aware

he knew he was a marketable plushie

I mean uhhh miniature

[dense salmon]

magnus one-eye was such a dope nickname he couldn't ruin it

the only wrench in the biomancy idea is that sanguinius had aches in his legs after they broke for the rest of his life

i imagine with biomancy they'd just be good as new, but they weren't

[storm jungle]

its very much "because plot"

[dense salmon]

yeah

i definitely see latent/unconscious biomancy as an explanation though

on top of superhuman condition

[thick cedar]

What if we find an stc that shows us the emperors twitter posts from 30,420?!?!?

[storm jungle]

I'd say he gets cancelled

but Horus already did that thankfully

[topaz lance]

My zelot can beat a Space Marine

Maybe a ultra marine

[soft thunder]

holy shit yall ever notice Prask and Lensk? were they added in patch 13 alongside the oilspill servitors?

[arctic talon]

I think so?

They def feel newer regarding their placement

[soft thunder]

a couple of guys in the hub

y'all think the atmospheric sheild mentioned in the hourglass map is talking about some void sheild around the hive/planet?

Like is it holding in the breathable air or keeping solar radiation out or what?

[umbral nymph]

probably, for a hive city as big and as important as this, planetary void shields are no suprise

[umbral nymph]

mostl likely both, considering what happens to the outlying sections of the hives being destroyed by the natural elements of the planet

on that one broadcast map

[soft thunder]

ya looking up stuff on the lexicanum seems to say void shield around hives aren't uncommon

[umbral nymph]

Actually it is kinda weird we dont see much Mechanus guys from what i would assume is an important forge in atoma.

should be a contingent from mars blessing those fresh leman russes 24/7

[soft thunder]

as well as possibly full of acheo-tech from DAOT

Imagine that's one reason Hadron is annoyed at Hallowette for not running any illicit tech by hadron for authorization or w/e first

ya idk you got a point there

[median marsh]

the zones we go to dont really need heavy mechanicum presence, only workers

the only one which would need at least a tech priest is probably coolant

[unborn gust]

Probably either dead or retreated

[soft thunder]

I guess they were operating some forges or factories during the Age of Strife, so maybe they still have a bit of knowledge of how to operate some of their machines?

[unborn gust]

If you’re talking in the greater hive area

[soft thunder]

ya that seems about right

[umbral nymph]

those are some pretty bad tech priest, I woul assume they would die protecting their tech (basically their temple) to the end

[median marsh]

imperium didnt completely lose the ability to work their stuff, only the most complex things

Tech priests are heavily augmented, leaving their corpses just laying there is a waste of good scrap

(we technically should be seeing piles on piles of corpses but for game reasons we dont)

[umbral nymph]

actaully a pretty good point, i would see them recovering all of their comrades bodies to be recovered

[soft thunder]

There's plenty of tech-priests and enginseers on the mourningstar tho

[umbral nymph]

yep but those are Hadrons possy, inquisitorial tech priest

[unborn gust]

It’s possible they deemed the knowledge they had worth more than some machines (kinda unusual) but probably better that their knowledge doesn’t fall to traitor hands

If the factories are still running though, there’s either some mechanicus still working on them or something

[umbral nymph]

also a good point probably, maybe they have the knowledge on why minerals in atoma are better than other planets for making tanks

[soft thunder]

The mourningstar has to have some of their own tech priests, at least a few. Hallowette also mentions something to Masozi inferring she knows at least one that can replace some scifi nonsense on Masozi's valkyrie.

some "Enginseer Moloch" is also mentioned on hub comms

[unborn gust]

Mechanicus love machines but most of what’s in a factory outside of STC’s would be manufacturing or simple data. So it being damaged is easy to replace and not much lost

I think it’s possible they also fled to the higher levels which are still somewhat holding out if I remember right

[umbral nymph]

yea probably considering the ship dosent even belong to the inquisition but a rouge trader ship, maybe Hadron's group focuses more on blessing weapons than maintaining the ship

Shipmistress Brahms must have her own group of tech priests

prbably where Moloch belongs to

[unborn gust]

I remember the Hadron cutscene had a fair amount of tech priests under her station

[winged jacinth]

Ship maintenance is probably some combination of mechanicus and the ship's maintenance clan but even a frigate probably requires a bunch of tech-adepts at least

[soft thunder]

Ya, the ones in the forge cutscene could be anyone's techpriests, imo. That little station wasn't specifically built for her (I mean it was for the game but you know what I mean.)

There's also a "Council Biologis" that is analysing all the plague samples we scan. Those I'd guess are inquisitorial posse of the warband, but know one knows. Might be some third party thing.

[arctic talon]

Could be Hadron contacting someone external for support

[median marsh]

she could, but chances of anyone being able to respond are slim

with the whole, you know, galaxy on fire

she sent whatever hallow gifted her to mars so thats something

[unborn gust]

Depends on which side tertium is on wouldn’t it? I believe Guillimans side can communicate decently

[arctic talon]

It’s in Sanctus

But communications are still a shitstorm

[soft thunder]

The post is still delivering to Terra even w/ the galaxy on fire though, which is kinda funny imagining packages still being delivered during a natural disaster.

[median marsh]

its not about communication but about avaliablity

[arctic talon]

We know hadron has contact with Mars

She asked for war material

Got told to fuck off

[median marsh]

there are things that require way more of guilimans attention than tertium

[arctic talon]

Admech moment

[soft thunder]

I mean guilliman is killing poxers on the other side of the galaxy atm right?

[arctic talon]

He’s still in Sanctus

Or rather he’s back in Sanctus

[unborn gust]

I shudder to imagine the bureaucratic nightmare that is the imperiums FEMA

[soft thunder]

the eastern ultramar side i mean

[arctic talon]

Oh

Yeah he’s far

Lol

The plague war is over but he’s still planning stuff out

[median marsh]

local chaos conglomerate does a funny

[soft thunder]

ya idk much about the whole "Era Indomitus" lore stuff, just know gorrillaman slapped some poxers or something

[arctic talon]

Tldr guilliman made imperial slightly less of a burning dumpster fire

[unborn gust]

He grabbed the emperors belt and gave Mortarian a beating

[arctic talon]

Now it’s just on fire

[soft thunder]

pretty vague so they can write more books tho from what I heard

[arctic talon]

Instead of being in a horrid state and on fire

[median marsh]

condensed version he got across almost entire galaxy to speak with Emperor then went on to relieve the imperium

"""relieve""" as in stop it from collapsing entirely

[unborn gust]

Small steps

[arctic talon]

Ima be real with you

[soft thunder]

I'd love to hear Hadron give her opinion of Cawl

[arctic talon]

They should just let nihlus finish burning

It’s arguably lost

[unborn gust]

I imagine it would be filled with many obscenities

[arctic talon]

Would be fun to see if she’s a supporter or not

Who knows

[unborn gust]

You see they would, except Dante has a rule in his contract saying he isn’t allowed to die

[arctic talon]

(Suffering builds character)

[unborn gust]

God gives he most suicidal warriors his thickest plot armor

[arctic talon]

He’s not suicidal anymore

Just Uber fucking depressed

An improvement of all time

[tulip brook]

the guy got a new model and new haircut nobody's allowed to see

he's living the life

unpopular opinion: they can retire dante, there are a bunch of interesting characters who can take his place

[vagrant fox]

The Sanguinor

[remote blaze]

Dante has a purpose, let him cook

[tulip brook]

Saying that with unopened model on my desk 🤡

[echo vault]

The scab captain has multiple different voice types and a couple are voiced by krubers voice actor, you don't notice it until the captain voice type "Officer" where it's the closest thing to a traitor kruber possible

You can't hear it until the "Adorable, you think that You're soldiers" intro line that is so close

[crisp heath]

So this is hella late, like really really late. But someone yesterday or so mentioned Dead Space and their Markers and Necromorphs. And it got me thinking. Wouldn't the Overlords of Barbados be the closest to this? Like a corrupted xenos or abhuman species that ruled Mortarion's homeworld. At least in form, if maybe not so much in function?

[green loom]

Not really?

They're just big evil disease monsters

[crisp heath]

Huh... just seemed close when I was looking at their art and reading up on them a bit

Next question. If the Emperor didn't plan everything to go down the way it did, why didn't he take certain actions, like the removal of Angron's Nails, or help any of the other more tragic primarchs? Instead, he seemingly did both as little as he could in some instances, and everything he could in others to cause as much friction and pain to some of them as possible, and ensure they turned. Just seems odd if he could erase Horus with his mind, that he couldn't have fixed or handled these other issues with ease. And if his foresight is nigh on perfect, that almost guarantees it.

[celest dome]

Cause he is flawed ?

And he couldn't take out the nail without killing Angron

[crisp heath]

This doesn't sit well with me. Saying it's all a "My bad bro" accident from the emperor feels flat.

[crisp heath]

I didn't know it'd outright kill him, especially with the Emperor being basically the greatest doctor/geneticist in all of human history

[green loom]

He's hardly the greatest doctor and far from the greatest geneticist

[crisp heath]

I thought he was called Master of the Lines or something like way back before the Imperium?

Because he was so good at genetics

[green loom]

Good, not the best

[crisp heath]

... I haven't heard of other geneticists making armies of supersoldiers...

[green loom]

So his army of geneticists and the selenar just don't exist I guess

Astarte actually didn't do anything

[crisp heath]

.... but like they didn't at first... he started it all... without the emperor, none of it happens...

[celest dome]

He wouldn't say it cause he doesn't see his flaws

[crisp heath]

One of the primarchs literally remembers the emperor from when he was standing outside their test tube

[green loom]

We also don't know how he kills Horus yet

[celest dome]

But he wasn't alone

[crisp heath]

At that point in time. He was however, basically alone when he made the thunder warriors. With his only help basically in the form of Malcador.

Malcador is the only other one possibly on par with the emperor in this regard

[green loom]

Thunder warriors aren't an achievement

They were drugged up maniacs

[crisp heath]

They absolutely were for their time

[green loom]

No they weren't

They were crude juiced up psychopaths

[crisp heath]

Sure. Still an achievement tat led to the astartes and such

[celest dome]

Are we sure he made the Thunder Warriors on his own or that he didn't take research from other people ?

[crisp heath]

Bro whatever. I'm done arguing something like this.

At this point it's just your opinion on how impactful thunder warriors creation is

[celest dome]

I mean, they were better than most Techno Barbarian, but it's not like they were miles better iirc

[green loom]

They were, again, crude drugged up Berzerkers, not some crowning achievement in science

[crisp heath]

@celest dome yes, we are sure. Because they basically lead directly to astartes and custodes. They were an achievement, and without them there never would have been the soldiers we have now. Were they perfect? No, that's why they were phased out. But you don't get an iphone without first making the blackberry

[green loom]

This is

A take

[celest dome]

Other lost planet also had geneticly augmented soldiers

[crisp heath]

It's a fact. What you're saying is a take, AKA opinion. There's a difference

[green loom]

I mean

Okay ig

I have opinions but you have facts certainly

[crisp heath]

But they were not the same. Yes, they may have had some power armor or some genetics or weapons. The imperium isn't the most advanced. One society is coming to mind. The interex. That said, they weren't the same obviously, and ended up not being as powerful as an astartes. Their tech definitely out classed us though

[green loom]

What

[crisp heath]

The fact the Thunder warriors were the literal precursor to astartes is a well established fact

[celest dome]

Yes it is, but it doesn't really mean that Thunder Warrior were "oh so great"

[crisp heath]

Never said they were. But for their time they were an achievement

[green loom]

No they weren't

Custodes were an achievement

And they were made at the same time

[celest dome]

Sure, but they aren't necessarily the one from the Emperor

[crisp heath]

Yes. They were. Ready made soldiers that could demolish worlds. Like, yes. No one else had anything like it, and it's what won the wars for the emperor.

[green loom]

That's blatantly false

[crisp heath]

They literally were co created by the emperor and malcador...

[green loom]

They're just drugged up barbarians

[crisp heath]

How so?

[celest dome]

Most faction could go toe to toe with Thunder Warrior
In the Age of Strife, it was still a phyric victory

[green loom]

The concept of "drugged up monsters" is not new or unique

[crisp heath]

Lol I'm done. Yall are silly

Pretty sure this is just a troll at this point

[crisp heath]

Thunder warriors were literally stronger than astartes...

They just had less control and didnt live as long

[green loom]

So are ogryn

[celest dome]

And Techno Barbarians weren't chumps

[green loom]

But that's because TWs were drugged up time bombs

[crisp heath]

To the thunder warriors they were

[tulip brook]

capable of demolishing worlds
only fought in unification wars
wait what

[green loom]

Lol

And I'm the ignorant one?

[crisp heath]

They lost, didn't they?

[celest dome]

Then why is it considered a phyric victory for the Emp ?

[drifting jacinth]

They weren't chumps, they were eclectic and they didn't have big E's administration behind them

[crisp heath]

Because the emperor had to destroy worlds and resources, and then his whole army to start over again once he had unified everyone

So even though he won, it was phryric

[drifting jacinth]

TWs aren't his whole army

[green loom]

Yeah never were lol

[crisp heath]

It was the largest portion

[green loom]

No

[crisp heath]

Bruh yes lol

What are you talking about

[green loom]

He had a sizeable forces of regular hoomins

[drifting jacinth]

He had early space marines, 99% normal dudes, some conquered technowarriors, and a few custodes

[tulip brook]

again wat, they were unstable and they got culled after emps made astartes and getting ready for great crusade

[green loom]

Ollanius(?) was an officer in his human armies

Either him or Grammaticus

[celest dome]

And all that started from someone not accepting that the Emperor isn't perfect, and is much worse than he like to think

[drifting jacinth]

Hot take : culling the TW was dumb

[green loom]

That is a hot take

[drifting jacinth]

They fought like early blood angels, just throw them on murder to kill the spiders or smth

[green loom]

They were like early BA but somehow more psychotic and also prone to organ failure

[drifting jacinth]

Let them die normally

Just don't make new ones

[green loom]

They'd probably die mid voyage

[celest dome]

Yeah using them as loose cannon would have been a good idea, if they survived till the combat started

[drifting jacinth]

Yea

[celest dome]

Would have been more "noble" in a way

[drifting jacinth]

And just, respectful, and wouldn't have risked custodes lives

[green loom]

It was probably more a propaganda thing, your glorious enlightened empire growing on the backs of drugged up savages barely held together by painkillers and stitches is probably not a good look

[drifting jacinth]

That's all the emperor ever made tho

[green loom]

Yeah but astartes looked somewhat prettier

[near wasp]

It is a bad image and big e really cares about his totally not a god like image

[drifting jacinth]

I guess yeah but that feels like it could have been resolved by just not giving them a remembrencer

[tulip brook]

they were aggressive and short lived, there weren't any battle they can be thrown off. they probably decided it's fun to fight unified world instead

[crisp heath]

But to say they were larger than his thunder warrior population lol is blatantly false. We literally never hear anything on them doing anything in battle. If they did exist, they mattered little. Almost like a guardsmen today. Again this is a stupid argument. The thunder warriors were an achevement because without them, no other supersoldier in the emps legions would have been made. At the end of the day, that is a fact no matter how much you dislike the TWs. They were the blackberry to the astartes iPhone. Fact. And the reason they were culled is stated in lore. The primarchs mention it a few times. He did it exactly because they could not be trusted to function in a good society. They were too wild and crazed, and the physical ailments were a detriment

[drifting jacinth]

"Almost like a guardsman today" lol

[crisp heath]

So they were phased out. The primarchs even feared it'd happen to them

[celest dome]

Which is telling when 99% of combat that is done by the Imperium is done by the IG

[drifting jacinth]

How are you named guardsman and don't know they win wars and keep planets

[crisp heath]

Lol I do know this. But they're literally also nothing but meatbags meant to take bullets

[tulip brook]

who is almost like guardsman now? I'm super confused

[crisp heath]

Like they don't matter

At all

[green loom]

Good ol Freudian slip

[crisp heath]

There's a reason I'm a ghost

[green loom]

So like the thunder warriors then?

[crisp heath]

I died, accomplishing little in the emperors name

[crisp heath]

Exactly

[green loom]

But far more numerous

[celest dome]

There are more wars won by the Imperial Guard than there are war fought by SM

[green loom]

Like the emperor's human auxilia in the Unification wars that massively outnumbered the thunder warriors?

[lapis wadi]

Shows the Emperor's cruelty in that he decided to cull them instead of.. well, just not making any more. "Hey guys, you've been doing great, but I'm diverting resources to Astartes since they're way more economical"
And using them until they fall to attrition, instead deciding to destroy them all. It's a little messed up.

Like it wouldn't take THAT long, Thunder Warriors didn't have hyper-longevity

...I think

[green loom]

The Emperor, a notorious shining beacon of good decision making and morality!

[crisp heath]

Ehh. Lol there seems to be a disconnect. You seem to think that because the thunder warriors weren't millions of times better then a guardsmen, and equal to an astartes, that they werent still the half way point between the two. They needed to exist for the other to. So yea, while they may have been like the Guard, and the guard may be more numerous "now", the thunder warriors were still an achievement

[lapis wadi]

Even if they were as good or slightly better than astartes, the space marines seem designed to be economical

Would you spend 100 resources on a 100 damage unit
Or 50 resources on a 90 damage unit

[final spruce]

Space Marines were also more cost effective and less volatile

[celest dome]

They were an achivement for todays standard, for the Age of Strife, they weren't that impressive

[lapis wadi]

And consider how many space marines have gone traitor or have unstable mutations
They're the stable ones

[crisp heath]

@lapis wadi but to get to that more economical thing, you have to make and develop the less efficient thing first

[lapis wadi]

Oh definitely, I'm just arguing against ever making more.
Only reason is "I need supersoldiers NOW"

[final spruce]

I've only read small passages about the Thunder Warriors but there were multiple talking about them going crazy and at times doing as much damage to their own as they did the enemy

[crisp heath]

I never said they should make more...

[final spruce]

Which I guess is also the point why Sms are technically less powerful as an individual