40k-lore-chat

[lapis wadi]

I wouldn't be surprised if Meks build their guns to fit human ammo a bunch of the time too "'koz what's the point if you can't shoot tha dakka you looted?"

[normal light]

We already see some similar designs (Vehicles , Weapons like Power-Klaws)

[spice ridge]

Eldar and Necrons did it all the time but nowadays they can't be arsed to do that

[dense salmon]

Some worlds are too valuable for their tithes to be wiped out

[dense dawn]

Fucking space elves

[dense salmon]

Catachan for example is one of the biggest exporters of soldiers

[storm jungle]

What my man has to deal with every day

[spice ridge]

Which is weird considering it's a death world

[dense salmon]

All catachan can do to pay their tithes are supply soldiers

Armageddon is an important factory world

[spice ridge]

So how is its birth rate high enough to be sustainable to have this high of a recruitment rate

[storm jungle]

Basically

dont think about it

[lapis wadi]

Catachan costs the imperium a ton of resources iirc, but the fact it gives back the Catachan Jungle Fighters makes it a fair trade for the Imperium

[dense dawn]

The man
The legend

[spice ridge]

I get planets are big and all but catachan is catachan

[dense salmon]

The reason we even bother fighting heretics in darktide is because atoma and the moebian district is too important to the empire for their production and soldiers

[storm jungle]

Its basically because GW has no idea how birth-rates work

lmao

[spice ridge]

Yeah humans are skaven in 40k

They just materialize

[dense salmon]

The same reason the empire bothered with cadia when it was in one of the most dangerous parts of space

[lapis wadi]

Didn't daemons try to invade Catachan after the fall of Cadia and the wildlife pushed them off-world again?

[dense dawn]

Loool

[storm jungle]

same as how Catachan are suppose to be peak human physique and walls of meat when evolution would make you look a lot more different lol

[storm jungle]

It was a pretty small daemonic army that got picked off, nothing too major

[spice ridge]

Atoma is being held onto because with the cicatrix maledictum splitting the Imperium in half, individual planets are suddenly a lot more important to their sectors

[green loom]

And I mean

[dense salmon]

Catachans surviving in 3x earth gravity would probably make them short with dense bones

[lapis wadi]

EVEN SO

[green loom]

Have you SEEN a catachan devil?

[storm jungle]

I have, my mom

[dense dawn]

So what is the greater good

[dense salmon]

But instead they are like 6'6" with 400 pounds of muscle

[green loom]

Look at this fucking thing

[lapis wadi]

Looks at Squats

[storm jungle]

the philosophy of the Tau that they should all unite and work towards a common goal.

[dense salmon]

Catachans are borderline bulletproof due to their advanced muscle

[dense dawn]

That's not a knife

[dense dawn]

Shame
They could've done real good with the emperah if they weren't such weebs

[lapis wadi]

THIS is a knife

[storm jungle]

The Emperor is a fascist and wants all aliens to die so no

[normal light]

Ogryn - humans

[green loom]

Do you have one of those ancient looking babushka-moms as well?

[dense dawn]

Now das more loik it

[storm jungle]

Actually sorry correction

All aliens + All humans that resist

💀

[lapis wadi]

Remember the Interex

[dense salmon]

The emperor is not a good person, but his plan for humanity would have been way better than what 40k is now

[dense dawn]

True
The main xenophobia
But he isn't stupid
He knows he could milk the tau of their greater good

[spice ridge]

Aliens are allowed to exist- as second class citizens -as long as they stay on their single planet and never do anything without the human's permission, ever

[dense salmon]

A race of powerful psykers being the architects of the warp

[storm jungle]

Nah

you basically live in slavery

[lapis wadi]

His plan was galactic eugenics

[storm jungle]

so its not even "permission" 💀

[dense salmon]

The emperor got a lobotomy during the GC

[green loom]

That's provided you aren't just killed

[storm jungle]

though I say this, the Imperium treats their citizens exactly the same so

[dense dawn]

Well if I learned anything from warhammer slavery is the way to go...

[spice ridge]

Now granted, aliens became ultraviolent after what the Dark Age of Humanity did to them, kind of?

So the Emperor is just picking up that torch

[dense salmon]

Some places in the imperium wouldnt be that different from life in the current world

[storm jungle]

Thats false

[green loom]

Well see the problem is

They butchered all the non-violent ones too

[storm jungle]

we literally got no idea since its the Emperor saying this, the literal genocidal lying fascist

that cant even keep his own sons in check

or be honest to them

[dense dawn]

Tau shalt be turned into sushi

[dense salmon]

Live on a pleasure world or just a normal planet that isn't a hiveworld, fortress world, or factory world and you would probably live a boring, normal life

[spice ridge]

Yeah but then why were so many humans violently attacked and conquered in the age of strife instead of just making friends with their alien neighbors if all they did was leave them alone

[dense dawn]

Vagina faced fish people

[storm jungle]

Humanity also infighted amongst each other, it wasnt just aliens is the thing.

[green loom]

Yeah, the Emperor, you know
The famously trustworthy guy

[spice ridge]

Unless we're saying the aliens deserved their extermination in 40k which for some they probably did

[dense dawn]

What's a pleasure world?

[storm jungle]

a planet where rich people chill

and also abuse their low class citizens

imagine Dubai but as a planet

lol

[green loom]

Imagine Martha's Vineyard in NYC but a planet

[storm jungle]

also no human rights exists so

[spice ridge]

That's every Imperium planet tbh

[dense dawn]

Capitalism baybeeeee

[storm jungle]

I mean so? It doesnt make a difference

[dense salmon]

The purpose of the great crusade was to either bring all of humanity into the fold through conquest or annihilate whichever humans got in the way, im surprised people are still confused about the emperor as a person

[spice ridge]

Feudal knight worlds sound pretty amusing

[storm jungle]

You'd be surprised 💀

[dense salmon]

He was not a good person in the slightest

[storm jungle]

Idk man

reddit told me hes a good guy

i gotta believe them

[dense dawn]

The emperor isn't a good guy?

[green loom]

Yeah he just wanted to make a beautiful world ruled by a specific group of people ykno

[dense dawn]

I mean I guess everybody is evil in their own way in 40k

[dense salmon]

I mean in the context of 40k? He's honestly pretty tame comparatively

[spice ridge]

I subscribe to the theory that the Emperor "loves" humanity in the same way that a person might love their own body

And that each individual is like a cell

[green loom]

If this quote seems familiar, it is said by Lupin while he's masquerading as Hitler

[spice ridge]

So no tears are shed for the millions of cells that die sustaining you

But were the whole thing to collapse then you'd have a problem

[storm jungle]

Picture this, it is the Great Crusade.

You are a far off human world that gets "liberated" by a space marine legion, and then your ruler says "Thanks for the help but we'll fare better on our own."

then your said saviors start massacring the entire populace

[dense dawn]

I'm not racist
But xenophobia does pay off

[storm jungle]

and make you submit

[dense salmon]

The emperor gave his primarchs quotas to fill on planetary conquest

[storm jungle]

[dense salmon]

Which is a big reason he did not like Lorgar

Lorgar would come as a missionary instead of an outright conqueror

[dense dawn]

Ah so you join or you die

[dense salmon]

Though he did conquer

[lapis wadi]

I've noticed you can say "I'm a good person, my beliefs and motivations are good" and a massive amount of people will believe you

Like, no matter what your actions are

[spice ridge]

During the Great Crusade (and during the leadup to the Heresy) certain planets were relatively peacefully inducted but that's if they bent the knee

[green loom]

Emperor moment

[dense dawn]

Tbf fuck lorgar

[storm jungle]

Yeah the Imperium is the worst place imaginable

[spice ridge]

But it could also depend on the primarch

If you're unlucky enough to be on a world subjugated by the world eaters...

[green loom]

Or just kill you all

[dense salmon]

The imperium is still better than chaos however

[spice ridge]

Well it doesn't matter how non-combative you are

[storm jungle]

Hell no

both are shit

[spice ridge]

They'll still murk you

[dense dawn]

Eh I kinda like chaos

More than the imperium maybe

[spice ridge]

Just because the Emperor couldn't be arsed to curb stomp Angron's skull when he was clearly unrecoverable

[storm jungle]

Two options.

• Be a literal slave
• Be a literal slave but with spikes

[green loom]

The difference is pointless, you're either serving a horrible death empire or serving the actual gods of evil
But the latter will maybe give you power so the choice is obvious

[storm jungle]

This is it basically ^

[spice ridge]

At least with the Imperium you're less likely to become a flesh experiment

[dense dawn]

3. Deadlifts for the dark gods

[storm jungle]

theres no "good" alternative

[storm jungle]

This guy gets it, the Mafia City grindset

[dense salmon]

The grimdark aren't the only facets of the 40k verse, a lot (maybe even the majority) of humans in the imperium live stable, boring lived

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/level-up-dancing-victory-dance-happy-dance-transformation-gif-15004862

[spice ridge]

Granted I've heard tzeenchian chaos/daemon worlds aren't actually all that bad

Specifically neo-Prospero

[dense dawn]

Nurgle is the way to go

[lapis wadi]

When we say "The Emperor is the best hope for humanity", that's derogatory. It's not meant to be inspiring, but depressing because the absolutely terrible person and leader is the only thing keeping humanity alive short-term.

[dense salmon]

But pretty much every chaos cult involves mutations and suffering

[storm jungle]

And that boring life can be ruined at any point by evil enforcers, guardsman, or just the admech deciding to say fuck your planet and forcing it to choke in industrial advancement.

[dense salmon]

And once you give your soul to chaos, there is no going back

[storm jungle]

its literally no different

[spice ridge]

Where sorcery is what matters so if you're just some random serf you're likely to just be ignored

[dense salmon]

Is it really different from our current lives?

[spice ridge]

And manual labor isn't in high demand because the leadership are all wizards

[dense dawn]

So how broken is kaldor draigo

[green loom]

The kicker is that it presents itself as an "out"

[dense salmon]

At any point a governing power, war, or terrorist can kill you or fundamentally change your quality of life

[storm jungle]

IRL a person wont walk up to me and beat me to death in the street because I got a limp leg.

[lapis wadi]

You'll get lots of mutations tho

[green loom]

When you're dredging away in a factory for 20 years

[hasty coral]

Hot take: Typhus is a gigachad for straight up admitting he wanted to serve chaos and is totally down with being evil

[green loom]

And a voice starts speaking in your head promising you freedom and power

[dense salmon]

Maybe not in a western country

[green loom]

That'll be very tempting

[hasty coral]

It’s takes a real one to straight up go, yeah fuck you guys I like nurgle instead

[storm jungle]

Its still better than living in a fascist hellhole.

[spice ridge]

I wish Chaos would be less dumb and had more aspects to it to make it actually believable that anyone would fall to it

[hasty coral]

I’m not doing the right thing

[green loom]

The slaves on imperial worlds are barely literate, they don't have the benefit of knowing what we do

[storm jungle]

^

theres a literal warhammer crime story

where some enforcers on a "peaceful" world

shoot a kid

because they thought he was a chaos cultist

he was not

[hasty coral]

To be fair if he was and they didn’t

The consequences

Much worse

[dense dawn]

Tseentch or however you spell its name is pretty good at it tbh

[lapis wadi]

Remember, it's not the strange whispers you hear that you need to worry about.
It's when the voice in your head speaks with your voice.
You have to second-guess every, single, thought you have.

[dense salmon]

I wont lie and say living in the imperium is an altogether pleasant lifestyle

[storm jungle]

And the point is he wasnt

[spice ridge]

Granted if we're talking about the uneducated masses of slaves and laborers in the Imperium yeah they wouldn't know any better

[dense salmon]

But it is way better for you than chaos

At least in the imperium, once you die, your suffering has ended if you are lucky

Falling to chaos is eternal suffering

[storm jungle]

I wont trust a faction that will turn me into a servitor because I stole some bread to feed my family so.

rating evils is always a useless debate

[hasty coral]

Hence why I trust chaos

[spice ridge]

Point is Chaos' existence does make the Imperium actively worse and arguably at least somewhat justified (though not morally) to murk random people

[hasty coral]

They are at least honest

[spice ridge]

Egh

[green loom]

Guilliman outlines how things happen

[lapis wadi]

Every impulse, every grand idea, every conclusion you reach. Did you think that, or did someone else think it for you?
You never notice you've fallen until it's too late.

[hasty coral]

Chaos are icky

[storm jungle]

The entire reason chaos cults exist is because the Imperium is a shithole so 💀

[hasty coral]

But at least the terms and conditions are pretty cut and dry

[spice ridge]

Chaos is super varied

[lapis wadi]

Road to hell paved in good intentions, and all that

[dense salmon]

If you had a choice between eternal demonic corruption and suffering and living a harsh monastic lifestyle

[storm jungle]

I'd rather just die tbh

[green loom]

Yeah but you don't have the hindsight to know of said suffering

Is the thing

[storm jungle]

^

[dense dawn]

Best primarch 321 go

[spice ridge]

Chaos was turbo corruptive and pretty evil before the Imperium even existed tho, granted you can blame the eldar for putting the nail in the coffin

[lapis wadi]

Corvus

[green loom]

It's easy to go "chaos bad I'd never choose them"

[hasty coral]

Mortarian

Not just because death guard

[storm jungle]

And now that the Imperium is around it has only grown stronger and far more worse.

[hasty coral]

But also because

[green loom]

When you're not dying in your twenties of smog

[dense salmon]

Guilliman, ultramar was a multi-solar empire pre-GC

[storm jungle]

Eldar literally didnt do anything

💀

[dense dawn]

I'd say Lionel jhonson

[storm jungle]

well the current ones anyway

[spice ridge]

The real ones to blame are the Necrons starting the war in heaven several million years in the past

[hasty coral]

Yeah your father being an asshole god who makes suffering pointless

Is annoying

I totally get why Mortarian would have rather died

[spice ridge]

And turning the realm of souls, a fairly benign thing, into the warp

[dense dawn]

The C'tan are the real bag of dicks

[spice ridge]

But yeah humans didn't make it any better

[storm jungle]

All Necrons wanted was some life-juice 😔

[hasty coral]

Well the Necrons found the ctan

If your life was based on energy juice

I’d eat the Necrons too

[lapis wadi]

Well maybe if the Old Ones had, I don't know, helped the people DYING ON THEIR RADIATION HELLSCAPE WITH THEIR GOD MAGIC they wouldn't have decided to try burning the galaxy down

[dense dawn]

But the C'tan fucked them over and turned them into undying murder robots

[hasty coral]

Yes to an extent

It’s a bit more nuanced then that

[storm jungle]

The Old Ones didn't help the necrons because they were literally expansionist conquerors and their populace was also treated like shit.

[hasty coral]

You can’t just fix EVERY problem

And the Necrons weren’t a good race

[lapis wadi]

The Necrons wanted immortality and power, but the Old Ones could have at least helped with the insane death rate they had

[storm jungle]

I mean why

just let them die

[dense dawn]

I'd like to blame the eldar for everything
Anyone agree?

[hasty coral]

Ok but to the Necrons that is super fucked

[spice ridge]

Eldar got a bit too uppity with their mega murder ""parties""

[storm jungle]

They didn't do much if at all aside from creating Slaanesh, even if they didnt the situation would be the same.

[hasty coral]

Just because the old ones actions can be explained doesn’t mean they are justified

[storm jungle]

humanity atm is the biggest source of power for the chaos gods also

[lapis wadi]

Way ahead of you.
The Eldar had millenia to ascend to psychic god-hood, given all the gifts of the Old Ones
And they fucked it up.

Literally.

[spice ridge]

I mean without the Eldar there'd be no eye of terror

[dense dawn]

They literally murder-fucked slaanesh into existence

[hasty coral]

The old ones did objectively choose to not help a suffering civilization

[storm jungle]

When a race reaches their technological zenith they grow decadent

[dense dawn]

Idk I just don't like the eldar

[storm jungle]

we have alot of evidences of this in our own history

[hasty coral]

Necrons had every right to go ballastic

[storm jungle]

so lol

[dense dawn]

Cunts

[green loom]

Most of the ones responsible for that are also

You know

Dead

[storm jungle]

Yep lol

[dense salmon]

It isnt outright stated but it is heavily implied that humanity being inherently superstitious/religious is a highly unique trait

[lapis wadi]

Skill Issue

[spice ridge]

I like the Eldar but I hate how their lore is handled (read: completely butchered and then ignored when it flops with the audience who rightfully dislikes it)

[storm jungle]

Greece and Rome Moment 💀

[hasty coral]

The old ones could have done something but outright refused any help

[dense salmon]

Which is why humans have a big presence in the warp despite not being as psychically advanced as the eldar

[hasty coral]

That is super fucked

[storm jungle]

Imperium Moment

[lapis wadi]

Also Skill Issues

[green loom]

It feels like Humanity is definitely geared more to faith stuff than the other races

[hasty coral]

The old ones deserved what was coming to them

[spice ridge]

Exodites did literally nothing wrong though

[storm jungle]

Its Hegelian Dialectics, not personal animosity

[hasty coral]

The Necrons also deserved it

[arctic talon]

Exodites and the craftworlders literally

[green loom]

Shut up Caesera

[dense dawn]

"Clench your buttcheeks so no heresy gets in"

[arctic talon]

Are not responsible for shit

Lol

[hasty coral]

The galaxy didn’t deserve Necrons or the old ones

[arctic talon]

The druhkari on the other hand can burn

[storm jungle]

What happens when you learn all your lore from grimdank 💀

[dense dawn]

Agreed

[lapis wadi]

Well the Eldar are superior than us, right? That's what they say.
So simply do not fall to complacency.

[arctic talon]

The craftworld eldar and exodites got dealt a shit hand in life

And then a shit hand when the empire exploded

[green loom]

They didn't

[storm jungle]

I mean speaking biologically and technologically they literally are

[spice ridge]

It's really funny when Imperium fans bring up the Eldar killing like a single towns worth of people as a reason to nuke fifty maiden worlds meanwhile the Imperium is actively churning through billions of human lives in the worst way possible literally all the time but that's OK because the imperium is cool and aren't elves

[arctic talon]

Truly peak fiction

[green loom]

The ones that aren't dead anyway

[arctic talon]

The craftworld eldar also like

Almost never fight with humans

[arctic talon]

There’s barely any occurrences

[dense salmon]

The majority of the factions in 40k are in a technological dark age

The tau are the only ones making leaps and bounds

[hasty coral]

You joke but fiction where you physically hate almost everyone but still pick a side is the peak of fiction writing

[arctic talon]

Like the imperium and the eldar get along the best

By far

[green loom]

"Me am Primarch Vulkan!
Ah! Hello World that.... that.... worships Eldar"

[dense salmon]

And the orks do not care to make life easier with tech, they want to make killing easier with tech

[arctic talon]

Compared to like

[spice ridge]

Like at this point yes actually an Eldar life really is worth a LOT more than a human life, unironically

[arctic talon]

Other xenos species

[storm jungle]

Eldar literally never wage war against humans unless they have to lol, no idea why you are doubt-reacting @lapis wadi

unless you are Biel-Tan I guess, but thats just one crafworld

[arctic talon]

Warzone nachmund gauntlet

Truly

[storm jungle]

KEK

[arctic talon]

An imperium moment

[spice ridge]

I think Biel Tan and one other Craftworld have a burning hatred towards humanity specifically

[arctic talon]

Of all time

It’s just beil tan

[dense salmon]

The imperium of man is typically the aggressor in most of the engagements

[dense dawn]

Imperator prevaileth

[arctic talon]

And Beil’tan are Uber mega racist

[hasty coral]

Who do you think deserves to win the game?

[spice ridge]

But most of the other craftworlds are ambivalent at worst to humans

[lapis wadi]

Eldar will murder millions of humans if they think it'll tip the balance 200 years in the future in some way

[arctic talon]

They don’t see other eldar as uh

[storm jungle]

Cant blame them honestly

[arctic talon]

Eldar

Lol

[storm jungle]

Not really

they dont take pleasure in it either

[dense salmon]

That being said, chaos/tyranids cannot be dealt with in a diplomatic way

[storm jungle]

unlike humanity at least

[dense salmon]

And it's debatable whether diplomacy would work on orks

[dense dawn]

So is chaos just better than the imperium in every way?

[arctic talon]

Nids are literally a bunch of bugs

[arctic talon]

Fuck no

Chaos is way worse

[dense salmon]

Some ork pirates trade with/work with humans

[lapis wadi]

HOW IS THAT WHAT YOU TOOK FROM THIS

[green loom]

Non-Drukhari Eldar and Imps have been almost allies since Cadia

I say almost

[spice ridge]

Usually it's a thing where a Farseer or a council of seers see something much worse coming if they don't kill these people ASAP

[green loom]

Because the imps tend to backstab them

A lot

[dense dawn]

No like
Better as in stronger

[spice ridge]

But also the Eldar are doing them a favor by killing them fast and clean unlike most other factions so

[lapis wadi]

Oh well that makes it much better.

[hasty coral]

Well I mean plague powers for pain I don’t care about or really feel

I’ll take that

[arctic talon]

Oh sorta

[hasty coral]

Zombie magic

[storm jungle]

"I cant believe Eldar would kill this many humans."

Meanwhile humans dying in the billions every second because some fat noble wants a planet somewhere.

[hasty coral]

Working alongside big green lads

I mean

[lapis wadi]

And?

[hasty coral]

It doesn’t sound THAT horrific

[spice ridge]

I'd rather get my head removed by a pretty elf woman's snazzy force weapon then getting hunted down by cultists and beaten to death

[dense dawn]

Since every daemon "killed" goes back to the warp only to return one day

[storm jungle]

They kinda got a better reason

[arctic talon]

Chaos is very strong

[spice ridge]

Or servitor'd

[dense salmon]

What was the hammer and bolter episode about the eldar called?

[spice ridge]

Dark Eldar make me laugh though

[storm jungle]

Garden of Ghosts

[arctic talon]

Gona be honest most craftworld eldar guns are infinitely less painful

[dense salmon]

That episode is a pretty accurate xepiction of eldar/human relations

[arctic talon]

Then imperial guns

Any dark eldar gun

Is the most painful thing in existence

[lapis wadi]

I'm sure that's of great comfort to those they kill.
Also I was never defending Imperial waste, false comparison.

[arctic talon]

But the imperium and eldar like

[spice ridge]

Dark Eldar weapons are literally meant to torture you the moment they're even being fired at you

[arctic talon]

Explicitly don’t fight very often

[dense salmon]

The eldar have their own dark history

[storm jungle]

The same humans that would also not show them any mercy and massacre populations that oppose them daily, yes.

[arctic talon]

When they do fight

[dense dawn]

I swear the drukhari uses spiked dildos as weapons

[arctic talon]

It’s usually due to either A. Bad communication

[hasty coral]

Seriously why is chaos that bad to be under?

[dense dawn]

I can't prove it

[arctic talon]

Or B. Extreme racism

[hasty coral]

Aren’t most mutations beneficial for the individual?

[arctic talon]

No

[lapis wadi]

They don't fight as often, I'll agree.
But that's a low bar when you're comparing that to Imperial battles against Chaos and Orks

[arctic talon]

They’re neutral at best

[spice ridge]

It really depends.

[arctic talon]

You’re a plaything for the gods

[hasty coral]

Are you really?

[arctic talon]

Yes

[dense salmon]

Serve the whims of a dark God who will corrupt every aspect of your mind, soul, and physicality who will treat you like a flesh toy for all of eternity

[hasty coral]

I don’t think they care much for randos

[dense dawn]

It isn't
Chaos is the way to go
I'd devote my intestines to papa nurgle any day of the week if I knew I wouldn't be caught

[spice ridge]

If you look at the life of someone on a daemonworld (i.e. Medrengard) life for EVERYONE absolutely SUCKS

[storm jungle]

Detroit

https://tenor.com/view/detroit-driveby-eminem-gif-24008106

[dense salmon]

Out of the 4, nurgle is probably the best choice, but youre still doomed to eternal torment in one aspect or another

[arctic talon]

Daemons will take intrest in you

Like

[dense salmon]

There is no coming back from chaos corruption

[lapis wadi]

I do not know how to explain why being twisted into a chaos spawn is a bad thing

[arctic talon]

there's plenty of fish in the sea lol

and by fish

I mean daemons

[spice ridge]

Life as an Imperial slave is positively pleasant compared to the poor suckers stuck on certain daemonworlds

[arctic talon]

and by sea I mean the warp

[dense salmon]

Once you fall to chaos, you couldn't be saved even if you wanted to

[hasty coral]

Nurgle demons are generally less friendly fire prone no?

[spice ridge]

Medrengard in particular with its skin farms

[arctic talon]

The difference between a Hellforge and a forgeworld is that when you die

on a forgeworld

you'll finally get to rest

[lapis wadi]

Emperor destroying Horus' soul was probably a mercy

[arctic talon]

on a hellforge your soul is being fed into the soul burner 9000

[dense dawn]

Is a custodian stronger than a gray knight

[storm jungle]

Yes

[arctic talon]

that tortures souls for all of eternity

to better produce weapons

[hasty coral]

Oh

That is a problem

[arctic talon]

Also yeah when you die

in a chaos world

[hasty coral]

But where do most imperium souls go then?

[arctic talon]

you'll usually have your soul kept for uh

uses

[spice ridge]

Medrengard is also where the daemonculaba that people like to refer to all the time is from

[storm jungle]

To the warp

[arctic talon]

shredded apart in the warp instantly

[hasty coral]

Oh

[storm jungle]

where they get eaten apart by demons or dissipate

[hasty coral]

I guess that is better

[arctic talon]

Chaos followers like to hang on to each others souls

[storm jungle]

LMAO

[arctic talon]

for sacrifices

[dense salmon]

Every primarch that fell to chaos is no longer really themselves, and there is no plausible method in lore to save them

[arctic talon]

or rituals

[spice ridge]

Most human souls are obliterated by the warp's corrosive, churning currents

[arctic talon]

or like

you know

other horrible things

[dense salmon]

Fulgrim can be saved

[hasty coral]

Death is better than eternal suffering

[dense salmon]

Thats it

[storm jungle]

The Emperor in fact, does not protect

[arctic talon]

Which is why Chaos is much worse

[hasty coral]

I didn’t think about post death consequences

[arctic talon]

eternal suffering is in fact real

[spice ridge]

A small portion might in some way be saved by the Imperial cult's worship or the Emperor but only if they're very important

[arctic talon]

in 40k

[spice ridge]

Typically Imperial Saints for instance

[dense salmon]

Because the fulgrim we think of is the soul of the laher blade, the god entity that was fulgrim's soul is currently floating in the warp

[spice ridge]

Or the legion of the damned or whatever they're called

[lapis wadi]

Also like, look at the dregs we fight.
Do they look like they're having a good time?

[spice ridge]

The firey dudes

[storm jungle]

"Whats the reason for your death?"

"I was a main character."

"Step to the right door where you can become an avenging spirit."

[spice ridge]

With the holy fire

[lapis wadi]

Do you really want to be a Maniac?

[storm jungle]

I mean yes they do

[spice ridge]

Pretty much lol

[lapis wadi]

With their skin-hoods/

[hasty coral]

Weirdly yes actually

[storm jungle]

they are brainwashed

or well

[hasty coral]

The gunners seem to be vibing

[storm jungle]

fully embrace nurgle

[arctic talon]

I think they are

[dense salmon]

Perturabo MIGHT BE salvageable if you believe he isn't a daemon prince

[arctic talon]

but they've drinken the kool-aid

Perturabo is a daemon prince until they change that lore which has been canon since 3e

so not likely

[hasty coral]

Like insane or not a lot of the nurgle worshippers seem to be vibing

[lapis wadi]

You can have a good time without the dark gods, and you won't look like ass

[spice ridge]

Reminder that nurgle daemons and followers aren't actually jolly and happy dudes, they're usually apathetic, angry or depressed or some mixture of the aforementioned emotions. Only Nurgle himself and nurglings are actually cheerful.

[hasty coral]

Except the poxwalkers

[arctic talon]

Also regarding least friendly fire prone daemons

[spice ridge]

Also maybe the occasional great unclean one

[arctic talon]

on the field of battle its slaanesh by far

[dense dawn]

So uh what is perturabos motive
As far as I know he's not a daemon worshipper

[spice ridge]

But even then they're usually just angry, too

Not on the level of bloodthirsters but

[storm jungle]

Blow up the Imperium.

[arctic talon]

He hates the imperium, he wants to build his own empire

[storm jungle]

pretty basic

[arctic talon]

Daemonic acension is an easy gateway to more power

[hasty coral]

See the problem with nurgle is the possibility of becoming a poxwalker even before your death

[dense dawn]

So just fuck you that's why

[arctic talon]

he got into a fight with mortarion recently over his new empire

[lapis wadi]

Perty's been Obliterator-Virus'd right? I can't remember

[arctic talon]

potentially?

[storm jungle]

Nah

hes just a daemon prince

no virus

[arctic talon]

I don't think it would effect him

at all since he's a daemon prince

[hasty coral]

Haha poxwalkers, and they say the darmonculba is grimdark

[arctic talon]

Daemonculba were a failed experiment

and made a total of like

1 viable marine

[storm jungle]

Daemonkilbasa

[arctic talon]

Kilbasa?

[spice ridge]

No they weren't a failed experiment

[arctic talon]

I mean

[spice ridge]

They actually worked from what I recall

[arctic talon]

they worked

[hasty coral]

Poxwalkers are literally the most horrific example of a zombie

[storm jungle]

Forgot the proper food name

[arctic talon]

but not that great lol

[spice ridge]

It's just that the process was kinda... Complicated

[arctic talon]

One success

[hasty coral]

Nurgle loses some points for poxwalkers

[arctic talon]

out of all them was like

not great

[hasty coral]

That is just vile suffering

[lapis wadi]

Is there anything.. sentient left in poxwalkers?

[arctic talon]

Yes

[storm jungle]

Yes

[dense dawn]

So are space marines produced by a geneseed
Or do they just kidnap children

[storm jungle]

its why they beg for help ingame

[hasty coral]

That’s the BAD part

[wintry scarab]

Whats this thing?

[lapis wadi]

Oh well that's horrifying

[storm jungle]

Leg brace

[hasty coral]

YEP

[storm jungle]

exists IRL

[arctic talon]

grab children, impant geneseed

[lapis wadi]

Leg

[storm jungle]

its to help you walk

[arctic talon]

a very fancy leg brace

[dense dawn]

Okay a lil bit of both

[hasty coral]

Poxwalkers are easily nurgles most vile aspect

[spice ridge]

Frankly Honsou was an idiot for discarding all the unfleshed instead of just inducting them into his warband

[hasty coral]

That shit is EVIL

[arctic talon]

Honsu is in fact an idiot

lol

[wintry scarab]

Oh, i thought it would be a lot more interesting

[hasty coral]

Capital E

[arctic talon]

well not an idiot

but still

[storm jungle]

Bro its just a brace 💀

[arctic talon]

he's not the brightest blub in the house

[dense dawn]

Are the poxwalkers worshippers
Or just people affected by the plague

[hasty coral]

How do I process this sentence

Instructions unclear

[storm jungle]

Both.

[wintry scarab]

Yeah, but it has like tubes going into the leg

[arctic talon]

They're people afflicted with a plague and can also be worshippers

[spice ridge]

Groaners are hive denizens being controlled, Poxwalkers are zombies.

Groaners will call out for help and whatnot

[arctic talon]

We're dealing with the walking pox

[storm jungle]

Groaners are in the process of turning into a poxwalker

[arctic talon]

in Atoma

[dense dawn]

So why are there begging

[hasty coral]

At least groaners are gone or insane

[spice ridge]

Poxwalkers just kind of gurgle

[arctic talon]

Groaners want to die

[storm jungle]

because they dont wanna be zombies

[hasty coral]

Poxwalkers are peak suffering

[arctic talon]

before they like

[lapis wadi]

Geneseeds are like, 99% of all the weird gene-therapy you need to be an astartes in an all-in-one package, that grows inside astartes.
Very handy. Honestly I bet the Emperor was annoyed he couldn't get the black carapace to grow organically too

[arctic talon]

fully transform lol

a poxwalker's mind isn't even in the front seat anymore

they're just like

stuck in the back screaming

for eternity

[storm jungle]

they are basically passengers yeah

[spice ridge]

Poxwalkers are just straight up dead I'm pre sure

[storm jungle]

its why the best thing you can do is kill them

[hasty coral]

It’s like one step removed from eternal damnation

[arctic talon]

The mind is trapped within

[dense dawn]

So you just get taken by nurgle whether you like it or not after it spreads?

[arctic talon]

for all intents and purposes

[hasty coral]

It’s easily the second worse fate

[arctic talon]

they're dead

[storm jungle]

Yes

[hasty coral]

In all of 40k

[storm jungle]

thats nurgle's entire thing

[dense salmon]

Death doesn't matter to nurgle. He has diseases that literally infect your very soul

[dense dawn]

Oh okay

[lapis wadi]

Remember, Nurgle SAYS he loves you and you just need to accept him to make the pain go away
But he's the reason for the pain in the first place. It's abuse.

[hasty coral]

Nurgle has some really overpowered shit

[arctic talon]

Its better then the plague of Unbelief I guess, because we know those types of plague zombies

[hasty coral]

That isn’t used

[dense dawn]

That's kinda badass

[arctic talon]

have their souls

go straight to the fucking garden

[hasty coral]

To make stories more exciting

[arctic talon]

For the walking pox its unclear

[hasty coral]

Powers alone Nurgle SLAMS

[dense salmon]

Falling to chaos is always a Faustian bargain

[spice ridge]

Yeah all the chaos gods have turbo abusive relationships with their followers lol

[dense salmon]

You receive "gifts" in the short term

But you condemn yourself for eternity

[storm jungle]

If you have a weak spirit/will you can also turn into Poxwalker from just hearing the groans or screams of other Poxwalkers

[spice ridge]

But so does the Emperor

[dense dawn]

Nurgle is powerful bro
So which one is the weakest compared to the others

[arctic talon]

The Emperor by far has the least abusive tbh

[hasty coral]

Literally walking death

[arctic talon]

Rn Slaanesh

[dense dawn]

Good

[arctic talon]

Slaanesh was on top

before the great rift opened

then Khorne was on top

[hasty coral]

Nurgle is just weaker because war is 40k

[arctic talon]

then Nurgle

[lapis wadi]

It's baffling to me how many people think the faction of Chaos with the Daemon Gods of Plague, War, Deceit, and Corruption, go "hmm.. maybe that could be.. good?"

[storm jungle]

Inb4 we get another "Slaanesh is sex???" debate

💀

[spice ridge]

They wax and wane but in general, Khorne is the strongest and Slaanesh is usually hovering around the bottom

[arctic talon]

Then tzeentch

[hasty coral]

So Khrone wins

[arctic talon]

now its khorne again lol

[spice ridge]

Slaanesh is excess

[hasty coral]

How is Tzeentch above Nurgle?

[storm jungle]

Most chaos worshippers have no idea and want an escape from the tyranny of the Imperium for an equally worse evil.

[spice ridge]

Tzeentch and Nurgle kinda trade places I'm pre sure

[storm jungle]

desperation will do that to you

[dense dawn]

Nah I know there is some murder in there etoo

[lapis wadi]

I don't mean in-universe

[storm jungle]

I mean

same applies to IRL

tho in that case people are stupid

[dense dawn]

Literally infinite knowledge

[storm jungle]

[hasty coral]

There is so much DEATH in 40k I feel like Nurgle has to be perpetually behind Khrone

Who wins because war

[spice ridge]

Slaanesh is all about going to the next extreme and the next high, which is what the Eldar were all about

[lapis wadi]

Nurgle doesn't do much, he's stagnancy don't forget.
Tzeentch out here doing... something.

Nurgle moves sloooow...

[spice ridge]

At least Slaanesh can make you feel really good... But also really bad.

[arctic talon]

Nurgle was on top for a bit

during the plague war

and then Tzeentch and Slaanesh

[spice ridge]

Pretty much always at someone else's expense

[arctic talon]

fucked him in the ass lol

[dense dawn]

They're polar opposites correct?
Tzeentch is change and nurgle is stagnancy

[hasty coral]

That’s because Nurgle gets to win by default

[storm jungle]

Correct.

[hasty coral]

Unless Khrone ends the galaxy first

[dense dawn]

We all rot

[storm jungle]

already am

[dense dawn]

Everything dies at some point

[storm jungle]

💀

[hasty coral]

Remember warp consumes equals even the warp dies

[spice ridge]

Necrosis

[lapis wadi]

I think I remember that the chaos gods powers ebb and flow, so it's hard to come up with a definite power ranking beyond "Khorne usually strongest, Slaanesh usually weakest but growing fastest"

[arctic talon]

Tbh

[storm jungle]

the Warp will exist forever

you cant kill it

[arctic talon]

GW always gives a ranking

[dense dawn]

Khorne is probably my second favorite god

[arctic talon]

in their codex

[storm jungle]

unless every sentient being in the universe dies

[arctic talon]

for Daemons lol

Daemons always get a little tierlist of who's on top and who's on the bottom

in their supplements/codex's

its kinda funny

[spice ridge]

I think Konrad had a vision of Horus winning the heresy, then exterminating humanity in his grief and thus killing off Chaos by extension

[dense dawn]

No need to be sentient
Planets can die too right?

[storm jungle]

I dunno

is this Dead Space

[spice ridge]

Well at that point nurgle wouldn't exist as he does, now

[dense dawn]

Nurgle can find a way

[spice ridge]

Nurgle would just be another force of nature and have no will of his own

[lapis wadi]

Hard for plants to believe.. also how much soul power does a daisy have

[spice ridge]

The chaos gods are reflections of reality

[storm jungle]

yeah but they arent forces of nature

[spice ridge]

If you exterminated all sentient life yes they might still exist in some way

[storm jungle]

they are actively evil

[spice ridge]

But they would become unrecognizable

[dense dawn]

Wut

[arctic talon]

Chaos is actively evil

[storm jungle]

Chaos = Evil

[arctic talon]

you know

[lapis wadi]

The chaos gods have the capacity for good things.
But they actively do evil things.

[hasty coral]

Pet check

[dense dawn]

How

[storm jungle]

...

tf you mean how

💀

[dense dawn]

Isn't chaos like neutral

[lapis wadi]

NO

[storm jungle]

What

LMAO

[arctic talon]

Idk about you but these guys look pretty fucking evil

Chaos is like

heiniously evil

lol

[hasty coral]

Hold up I can explain

[spice ridge]

Chaos is actively evil because of all the conflicting wants and desires of realspace on top of everything being generally shit.

[hasty coral]

I thought simarly

[lapis wadi]

The Realm of Souls was neutral
The Warp is the corrupted version of that

[hasty coral]

The warp WAS neutral

[dense dawn]

Nah those guys are evil alright
But the gods don't necessarily scream evil to me

[arctic talon]

The gods are evil

[hasty coral]

But suffering and evil created the chaos gods

[arctic talon]

Have you seen their daemons

[hasty coral]

The chaos gods are literally FORMED from evil

[dense dawn]

Oh

[arctic talon]

Like idk about you

[lapis wadi]

And some other stuff, but a whole lot of suffering

[storm jungle]

Look at em gooo

[arctic talon]

but these guys don't look good lol

[dense dawn]

Aren't they like aspects of life?

[storm jungle]

no lmao

[arctic talon]

No

[hasty coral]

I thought the same thing as you

[lapis wadi]

Partially

[hasty coral]

Kinda

[arctic talon]

they do have some like

elements

but not really

[spice ridge]

Yeah any book featuring communication to a chaos god or more likely one of their greater daemons (which are just extensions of the chaos gods, themselves) they're generally pure malice and want very badly to hurt you in any way they can

[hasty coral]

Their actions are based on their conceptual embodiment

But they aren’t THE concepts

[spice ridge]

Better yet if they can sucker you into signing your soul over so they can super-torture you forever

[dense dawn]

Ohhhhh

Okay

[lapis wadi]

When does Nurgle do y'know, the nice parts of life?
When is he a god of fertility and good harvests?

[spice ridge]

Uhh never

[dense dawn]

So they're the darker side of said concept?

[spice ridge]

Not any more, anyways

[hasty coral]

The chaos gods aren’t necessarily evil by their own choice

[lapis wadi]

He doesn't because he's an evil dickbag

[hasty coral]

They literally must create and be suffering

[arctic talon]

My favorite Tzeentch Greater Daemon is aetaos'rau'keres who's a lord of change who gets automatically summoned whenever someone figures out how to do part of his true name/summoning ritual and then he slaughters everyone on the planet

[dense dawn]

I would personally pay you to pronounce that name

[lapis wadi]

That would summon him

[hasty coral]

They are like a unbelievably ravenous dog that you might feel pity for, if it doesn’t actively seek out violence everywhere

[arctic talon]

Ataos- rao-keres

[hasty coral]

It has to die

[arctic talon]

is how I pronounce it lol

[hasty coral]

And you can’t really feel too bad for it

[spice ridge]

Since the Chaos gods developed their own personalities they essentially become actively malicious and super negative which creates a feedback loop that makes their followers more evil which makes everything shittier which in turn makes the chaos gods more powerful

[hasty coral]

But it’s agency was questionable

[hasty coral]

This

[spice ridge]

Therefore they have more reason to be pure evil than to be good

[dense dawn]

So they're evil incarnate but they're not evil by choice because the whole purpose of their existence is evil?

[hasty coral]

Again I disagree they could EVER choose

They are composed of suffering

[spice ridge]

Benevolent warp entities might exist but they're exceedingly rare

[hasty coral]

As the warp is now

[arctic talon]

The Greater good entity might be good

[spice ridge]

And are more likely to be tzeentch pretending to be nice

[lapis wadi]

Saying they're not evil by choice is a bit odd.
I'm not a carbon-based lifeform by choice

[arctic talon]

we have no clue if it is

[hasty coral]

Yes and no

They definitely enjoy being evil

And believe it’s their choice

[arctic talon]

There's a huge might on the greater good entity

[hasty coral]

But that’s questionable

[arctic talon]

The Emperor isn't a warp god yet so he doesn't count

[dense dawn]

Tzeentch didn't like that

[hasty coral]

They were born of suffering and were intrinsically linked to causing more and more pain

[arctic talon]

the Eldar gods are all fucking dead/trapped

but Chegorach is benevolant

[hasty coral]

He definitely makes decisions, as they all do

[arctic talon]

same with Ynead???? maybe

[spice ridge]

People got too pissy about the Tau being objectively superior to the Imperium (which, they still are ) so they tried to make them more grimdark

[arctic talon]

tbh

the tau were already grimdark

originally

[hasty coral]

But even Tzeentch to some extent was forced from birth to embody the suffering nature of the warp

[dense dawn]

Okay turns out I don't know Jack shit about 40k

[arctic talon]

they're literally a propaganda society

and imperalistic

they're just a very realistic evil

[spice ridge]

Eldar gods, minus Khaine, are overall benevolent from what I recall

[arctic talon]

so they don't look evil at all compared to SUPER MEGA FACISM

[dense dawn]

They're evil just cause?

[storm jungle]

Khaine is the dipshit yeah

never change

[arctic talon]

They're evil the same way irl dictatorships are evil

[dense dawn]

But super mega fascism is cool

[arctic talon]

they want to maintain control

[storm jungle]

Pipe down with that lol

[hasty coral]

Its not necessarily a LACK of choice but more like a restrictive choice, like born into a bad situation but INFINITELY worse

[lapis wadi]

Remember, what caste you're born as is what you're expected to do forever.
You're earth caste. You don't make art. You don't sing. You don't fight. You don't pilot.
You build. That is what you do. That is all you will ever do. This is for the Greater Good. You do not get to choose.

[spice ridge]

I'm still annoyed that Khorne became the rage god when Khaine was the true rage god way before he even existed >:(

[arctic talon]

Morag'hai is also kinda evil

but yeah

[storm jungle]

I mean again its a lot better than the Imperium though is the thing lmao

[hasty coral]

There is a small chance they could have chosen to be good

[spice ridge]

Khaine is literally about rage and anger, Khorne is about battle prowess

[arctic talon]

most of the Eldar gods were chill

[storm jungle]

and this is from someone that doesnt like tau

[arctic talon]

now they're uh

[lapis wadi]

That is a LOW bar, but.. kinda.

[arctic talon]

all dead

or getting digested by slaanesh

one or the other

[spice ridge]

Eldar gods were largely benevolent to benign with like two evil exceptions

[hasty coral]

But that chance was so small it’s hard to call them being evil suffering dickbags as entirely their choice

[dense dawn]

So how strong is kaldor draigo

[hasty coral]

Tldr fuck Necrons and Old Ones

[arctic talon]

pretty strong

[hasty coral]

Mainly Necrons

[spice ridge]

I'm mad that the Ynnead storyline got killed off

[storm jungle]

Consider this, do you just wanna be bing-chilling doing your job.

Or be born into literal slavery and get turned into a servitor because someone in your regiment's officers didnt like you

[dense dawn]

Agreed

[arctic talon]

but he ultimately fights a meaningless war

[spice ridge]

Heaven forbid the Eldar get a dub, ever

[arctic talon]

its getting rebooted

[lapis wadi]

I can easily believe the Eldar purposely had a couple evil gods to put all the negative emotions in one place.

[storm jungle]

actually i say this but tau life isnt that bad either

[dense dawn]

Can he ever leave the warp

[arctic talon]

yes

[spice ridge]

Kaldor Draigo occasionally hops out of the warp to help out sometimes I think

[storm jungle]

yes

[arctic talon]

but only temporarily

[dense dawn]

Lan sen Türk muydun amk

[spice ridge]

But he eventually gets sucked back in

[lapis wadi]

Basically slavery either way.
But the Tau have healthcare and OSHA.

[arctic talon]

Craftworld Eldar have the most grimdark fate, they have Gav Thrope as their main writer

[storm jungle]

Belli olmadımı

[dense dawn]

Farketmemsitim

[arctic talon]

Aka Suffering porn enjoyer

[hasty coral]

Pog multi languages

[arctic talon]

if Gav Thrope writes your book

[spice ridge]

Imperium fans making a big stink about Tau sterilizing humans when there's literal uncountable trillions of humans in the Galaxy

[arctic talon]

get ready for infinite agony

[storm jungle]

[hasty coral]

I wish I could speak multiple languages

[storm jungle]

The Tau sterilization thing is also not real and from dawn of war 💀

[hasty coral]

That would be neat

[lapis wadi]

So no complaints if your government decided to sterlise you?

[arctic talon]

There actually is a single sept that does it

[spice ridge]

Oh is it Gav that writes about all the Eldar torture porn?

[arctic talon]

except they're minor

and uh

[dense dawn]

Porn is suffering
And suffering is a type of porn
As all things are

[arctic talon]

no one likes them

[storm jungle]

Correct

[dense salmon]

I had another point to make about chaos but I was interrupted by work

[hasty coral]

I mean

That is kinda their fate

[arctic talon]

Gav Thrope writes torture porn for every faction

[spice ridge]

I thought that was C.S. Goto

[storm jungle]

Have you read any book Gav wrote about Dark Angels

[spice ridge]

Unless he does less torture porn by comparison

[dense salmon]

I'm currently more interested in the implications of zealots in-game abilities

[arctic talon]

C.S. Goto doesn't exist

[hasty coral]

At least for Eldar is canon

Suffering

[storm jungle]

"Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen"

[dense dawn]

Asmodai!

[spice ridge]

Searching for the fallen known as Bofadese

[dense salmon]

Like, we could argue that veteran's commanding shout is entirely realistic

[arctic talon]

bolter bounces off of rhino, Dark angels get slaughtered

[hasty coral]

He has some psychic relics

[arctic talon]

truly peak fiction

[hasty coral]

That’s about it

[arctic talon]

Mr.Thrope

[storm jungle]

I read 5 books of that shit

i wanted to die

[hasty coral]

The rest is just game

[storm jungle]

💀

[dense salmon]

Shouting commands to people could probably make them feel tougher or swing harder

[arctic talon]

Its like the Eldar D-cannons

[storm jungle]

Rome Moment

[arctic talon]

doing nothing to a baneblade

truly peak

[hasty coral]

Veteran and Ogryn have no powers

[spice ridge]

God I hate when the writers just make a faction comprised of a bunch of idiots

[arctic talon]

if Gav is writing the POV faction

[dense salmon]

But the zealot raising a relic and actually physically SUBDUING chaos

[hasty coral]

Psyker and Zealot do

[dense salmon]

Is supernatural

[arctic talon]

your guns will be useless

and you will die horribly

[hasty coral]

He isn’t psychic

[dense salmon]

?

[hasty coral]

Just has relics

[dense dawn]

What's a baneblade?
I only know it from that one meme

[arctic talon]

gav Thrope's peak fiction

[arctic talon]

its a big fuck off tank

[storm jungle]

massive fuckoff tank

[arctic talon]

A D-cannon fires antimatter

[spice ridge]

Wow another book about chaos space marines getting beaten by a random named character like they're utter trash when MOST of them are horus heresy veterans

[arctic talon]

and is an Eldar anti tank gun

[dense dawn]

"it is the baneblade"

[lapis wadi]

I'm curious if the Zealot's Relic is like.. JUST a relic, or a sort of crude Rosarius field projector

[arctic talon]

which is why I made a dumb joke

[dense salmon]

My argument isn't that the zealot himself is psychic

[dense dawn]

Bigger than the leman russ?

[arctic talon]

about Gav Thrope's choices

in writing

[arctic talon]

yes

[dense salmon]

Just that the physical manifestation of the relic is likely just a powerful thoughtform

[dense dawn]

Dam

[hasty coral]

In the far future of the 41st millennium tanks still kick ass

[dense salmon]

Likely made manifest through intense faith

[lapis wadi]

hell yea

[arctic talon]

comically so

[lapis wadi]

TANK

[spice ridge]

Another book where an eldar exodite world is single-handedly slaughtered by a random imperial guard reigment with like 30,000 troops deployed, somehow

[hasty coral]

No seriously it’s funny how good old tanks are still used

Although why wouldn’t they

[arctic talon]

Blessed be our lord gav thrope

[dense dawn]

Yeah that shit big

[arctic talon]

may he write more torture porn

for all factions

[hasty coral]

Heavy treaded war vehicles will never really go out of style

[dense dawn]

Gay thrope

[lapis wadi]

IT IS THE BANEBLADE

[arctic talon]

Also fun fact

Gav Thrope is writing the Leagues of Votann book

[dense dawn]

IT IS THE BANEBLADE

[storm jungle]

hes also writing for the Votann yeah

💀

[arctic talon]

It is so over for the Dwarves

LOL

[spice ridge]

I wish to gently snap every single one of a writer's fingers every time they write factions being unreasonably dumb

[hasty coral]

Damn is he THAT bad

[storm jungle]

YES

[dense salmon]

The biggest tragedy of digital/information warfare in our current times is that heavy field artillery and mechanized infantry are nearing obsoletion

[dense dawn]

Are the dwarves any good in 40k?
I don't hear much of them

[lapis wadi]

Let them rock and stone please don't hurt them too quickly

[dense salmon]

Not to say I'm pro-war

[arctic talon]

They're very new

[storm jungle]

They just came out rebooted as an army last year

[dense salmon]

Leagues of votann

[spice ridge]

If you're gonna have X faction get slaughtered have it be written in a cool way

[arctic talon]

Thrope is unironically a really really good writer

[dense salmon]

Reboot of old lore squats

[arctic talon]

but like

[hasty coral]

40k is more attrition and constant war, a lack of that makes tanks unwise

[arctic talon]

Like

Thropes world building

[spice ridge]

Not "fire dragons do nothing to the rear armor of a leman russ, somehow lol lmao then they all die"

[arctic talon]

is like top notch lol

[lapis wadi]

They're new.
Technically old, but they were like.. super-early, dropped years ago, and recently re-introduced and retconned as always there

[arctic talon]

Nothing fucking compares

and then he writes the most

absurd torture porn inbetween

[dense dawn]

Lore-wise?

[arctic talon]

which is hilarious

in contrast to everything else he writes

[dense dawn]

Mostly porn

[storm jungle]

A farseer could just get a ship near low orbit and make an entire Imperial war-room of generals kill themselves but instead they need to deploy an entire army ot fight people that use WW2 tactics.

I love 40k writing

[spice ridge]

Who came up with Lucius the Eternal

I just

Want to have a word

[arctic talon]

TLDR he belives Suffering Builds character -> Suffering Builds character -> Suffering Builds character -> Suffering Builds character -> Suffering Builds character -> Suffering Builds character -> Suffering Builds character.

[dense salmon]

The imperium also uses old world broadside ship-to-ship combat in space

[arctic talon]

That is literally

[lapis wadi]

They're pretty cool.
Just keep to themselves in the galactic core, have ancestor-ai worship, drink respect-robot-juice, and are clones.

[arctic talon]

Gav Thropes like MO

[dense salmon]

Which is so comically absurd it becomes cool

[arctic talon]

Suffering Builds character

and oh boy

does he like making people suffer

[hasty coral]

Rule of cool until it hampers us

[spice ridge]

Muh grimdark future of grimdarkness that grimdarked so hard it got grim and dark

Yeah very cool writing style thanks man

[arctic talon]

TLDR I don't hate Gav Thrope as a writer

but like

god

its so fucking predictable

[arctic talon]

how any of his books are gona go lol

[lapis wadi]

Admittedly the Votann seem a little too squeaky-clean right now, like the Tau were at first.
They could use a bit of Nuln Oil, if you get my drift

[dense salmon]

The grimdark isn't the only facet of 40k, though it definitely is the most marketable part of it

[hasty coral]

Is it?

[dense salmon]

40k is ultimately satire

From the 80s

[hasty coral]

It’s the big military to me

[spice ridge]

Yeah I know originally it was social commentary on british politics

[hasty coral]

I like the big military and magic stuff

[spice ridge]

Or whatever

[dense dawn]

40k is a parody of itself and I love it

[arctic talon]

a ton of world building, suffering, more world building

[storm jungle]

They grimdark comes from stuff like destroying planets with people on em and also being extremely capitalist.

[lapis wadi]

ℑ𝔫 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔊𝔯𝔦𝔪 𝔇𝔞𝔯𝔨𝔫𝔢𝔰𝔰 𝔬𝔣 𝔱𝔥𝔢 42𝔫𝔡 𝔐𝔦𝔩𝔩𝔢𝔫𝔦𝔲𝔪... 𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔯𝔢 𝔦𝔰 𝔒𝔫𝔩𝔶 𝔚𝔞𝔯.

[arctic talon]

The Votann are Capitalist™️

except

[storm jungle]

"Im sorry guys I know we agreed to fight with you but you arent paying us money anymore so we are leaving"

[arctic talon]

to a comically evil degree

[hasty coral]

Remember when they called out weirdos and hate speech and people were SURPRISED?

[arctic talon]

The you have 1 hour to evacuate

before we destroy your planet

[hasty coral]

Tell me media literacy isn’t dead

[arctic talon]

[dense dawn]

And so in the 43rd and so in the 44th

[hasty coral]

You can’t

[dense salmon]

You should look at old art of Tribes

The video game

[spice ridge]

That's not even evil or ultra capitalist, that's just average merc practice

[dense salmon]

A lot of visual parallels to old 40k

[arctic talon]

the votann planet eater

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

Which is great

[spice ridge]

You shirk on payments, they won't fight for you