so to speak
#40k-lore-chat
arctic talon
plush mason
that idk i dont think its ever specified, the story was the dispare of Nar-something
it just said the iron snakes killed 600 dark eldar
grave sparrow
they also sacrificed thousands of guardsmen and civilians as bait, but basically they lulled the dark eldar into a false sense of confidence and then massacred them in a multi-stage ambush with the help of the remaining PDF and whatnot.
It wasn't a clean victory.
plush mason
yeah
patent ivy
Pyrrhic victory?
arctic talon
I’d say it was just a victory
Thousands while a cost
For the imperium to pay isn’t terrible
urban spire
depends on what they just lost thousands of
celest dome
Is loosing thousands of men in a single war a lot ?
Depend, is it guardsmen, it's negligible, but if it's Custodes...
arctic talon
depends on what they just lost thousands of
Pdf and civilians
The dark eldar also would have taken a lot more
Then just a few thousand given the chance to lol
hasty coral
How scary are custodes really?
I know they have insane feats and backgrounds, but how insane do they really go?
urban spire
would be scarier if they left terra much
normal light
I know they have insane feats and backgrounds, but how insane do they really go?
At least in TTS regular Custodes could be killed little bit harder than regular marines
Because of their invul
And they hit little bit harder than casual Marines
But TTS and lore are 2 separate realities
median marsh
As with most Warhammer things their lore is a bit inconsistent but in general Custodes are absolute powerhouses by design
they are extremely difficult to produce and equip
wet sandal
The emperor wanted his own chapter, so he made the custodes
And when I say he made them, he literally personally made some of the weapons
tulip brook
just 2 custodes were enough to scare a whole sm chapter when they were delivering primaris reinforcement so yeah
median marsh
Per their codex a Custodes to a marine is what a marine to a guardsman
median marsh
They are the absolute best of the best imperium has given their duty
urban spire
Per their codex a Custodes to a marine is what a marine to a guardsman
a slight improvement at MASSIVE cost
median marsh
Which makes some books really funny to read like when a bunch of harlequins slaughter them
While in other books a squad of them demolishes a swarm
urban spire
harlequins own
gigantic dude covered head to toe in 30 cm of adamantium approaches
"lol" said the harlequin's kiss
"lmao"
wet sandal
In old lore custodes are kinda pushovers, just slightly better space marines. In new lore they're complete powerhouses
median marsh
Which is why 40k is really hard to take seriously 
wet sandal
Custodes and harlequins are supposed to be on the same level iirc, but it is what it is
urban spire
eh harlequins carry the hard counter to heavy armour
it's fine for there to be a bit of RPS interplay among the elites
wet sandal
I'm not talking about 1v1s
urban spire
in general, for the survivability onion, the imperium focuses on "don't get penetrated" while eldar smartly start at the outer layer
because ultimately no matter how much armour you slap on the imperium's extra special boys, there's still a body inside of it that is only marginally more capable of surviving a hit than a regular human
median marsh
Ignoring the fact that saying they're only "marginally" more resilient than regular dudes is hilarious, they're more than just huge guys in armor
urban spire
in terms of warfare yeah it's marginal
median marsh
They're not, they fight things that obliterate normal dudes instantly
Cain fought a basically dead CSM and barely made it out alive despite being an amazing duelist
urban spire
he was downplaying his own feat
like it doesn't matter how many extra hearts, vacuoles and nodes you have implanted in your body if all your blood falls out of a big hole
or a shockwave just turns your brain into soup
rancid glacier
Sure, but there's more to a space marines defense than just their armor and beefy bods. They operate on a high enough level to avoid, or parry attacks that a regular human couldn't hope to keep up with.
Though catachan guardsmen seem to be on a similar level, so maybe not
urban spire
getting into slightly dodgy lore territory there
like compared to a guardsman sure, but compared to other threats in the galaxy?
median marsh
Catachans are highly specialized troops, they excel in a particular field
urban spire
catachans make their trauma into your problem
undone zodiac
Unless you get the mixed regiments due to losses
median marsh
you don't want em In a trench holding a siege for example
queen laurel
Catachans are highly specialized troops, they excel in a particular field
Yeah they are extremely heavily specialized into what they do
Literally take something people comfortable with and turn it into something they will fall off
Like Horus using the Raven guard as a front assault unit
normal light
you don't want em In a trench holding a siege for example
They just don`t have proper training and equipment
undone zodiac
Elysian droptroops and catachan regiment combination
normal light
Elysian droptroops and catachan regiment combination
Why?
undone zodiac
Thats how guard replenishes losses
normal light
It`s like how to make unit which can not make anything in proper way
undone zodiac
Mixing depleted regiments with esch others
urban spire
the guard prefers to combine regiments from the same or similar origins
normal light
You don`t put Drop Troops and Guerilla Infantry in one regiment
undone zodiac
You do if there arent other options
normal light
Than you are an idot because it doesn`t work like this
undone zodiac
And appereantly they were incredibly strong combo
urban spire
a situation where you have time to go through the administrative work of combining regiments but also can't get reinforcements is exceptionally rare
normal light
How do you properly use Drop Troops and Guerillas in one regiment?
Who will hold front line positions?
who will advance
undone zodiac
Others are stealth specialists and others operate behind lines
urban spire
tbf holding and advancing are fields both those regiments struggle with
undone zodiac
/jungle
normal light
Others are stealth specialists and others operate behind lines
Operate Behind Lines and Sabotage operations are not the same
Drop Troops drop on some point and assault it
and HOLD POSITION till reinforcements arrive
undone zodiac
And having people who know how to make extensively traps and ambushes makes it even more effective at holding that position
urban spire
drop catachans is a pretty funny concept ngl
median marsh
If that position happens to be the environment they're most effective at
normal light
And having people who know how to make extensively traps and ambushes makes it e...
Okay , firstly how do they get to the Drop Troops
normal light
If that position happens to be the environment they're most effective at
And if enemy doesn`t have lots of troops and armor
undone zodiac
They drop with them
normal light
HOW , THEY DON`T HAVE PROPER TRAINING?
urban spire
it's only a couple months training to learn to use a grav chute
undone zodiac
"Here strap this to your back and activate when dropping"
normal light
it's only a couple months training to learn to use a grav chute
We are talking about situation when you have to do it quick
queen laurel
If that position happens to be the environment they're most effective at
yeah the only way i could see this combo working is that have catachan sabotage the enemies in the jungle planet and the drop troops can drop in because of the sabotages that was done by the catachan
median marsh
There's this thing of catachans being notoriously difficult to wrangle
queen laurel
Which is from very specific worlds
normal light
"Here strap this to your back and activate when dropping"
And broke your legs when you activate it too late
median marsh
They don't really mix with non catas
normal light
All I am saying that this mixed regiment is PRETTY WEAK in it`s attack and defense capabilities
normal light
All I am saying that this mixed regiment is PRETTY WEAK in it`s attack and defen...
You can`t hold the line with just ambushes and traps
You need trenches and fortifications
urban spire
drop troops don't do those either
normal light
drop troops don't do those either
yes , their main role is take hold of some point for couple of days
till Armored Spearhead arrives
or other capable force
urban spire
very different methods
normal light
You talk it like catachan dont know how to attack
They know how to do it
but their methods are different
and
They lack equipment to defend from enemy that has lots of artillery and heavy vehicles
like their can be stationed in trenches but they would loose their positions pretty quick
undone zodiac
We are talking of 2 mixed regiments so its pretty likely they pool in their equipment. And the equipment of elysians is pretty much same with exception of being made more compact
urban spire
actually i'm looking at catachan combat doctrine right now, they look pretty well suited to taking and holding positions
they got snipers, flamers, heavy bolters, a bunch of different kinds of landmines
undone zodiac
And mix it with all equipment of elysians and their light vehicles
urban spire
i still think a combined regiment is a bad idea
normal light
YES IT IS
normal light
actually i'm looking at catachan combat doctrine right now, they look pretty wel...
They still lack arty capabilities
median marsh
Catachans wouldn't tolerate anyone not them
urban spire
like the logistical work involved in combining two regiments isn't something you can just do ad hoc
normal light
like if any of their postions are discovered there is nothing they can do
urban spire
They still lack arty capabilities
so do elysians. i think they have pretty similar roles, just different ways of getting there
undone zodiac
Mix deathcorps with anyone lmao
urban spire
catachans do have armour regiments btw
queen laurel
i still think a combined regiment is a bad idea
yeah it is
it's better for just a regiment to be alone and be adapted to the battlefield
normal light
Elysians don`t even mention defence in their doctrines
undone zodiac
Theres bad combo
urban spire
elysians have some necessarily defensive equipment like the tarantula turrets
you can't lug one of those around with you
normal light
Like if you want to mix regiment , mix regiments of the same type
normal light
elysians have some necessarily defensive equipment like the tarantula turrets
They have Tauroses
rancid glacier
I don't know anything about the Elysians, know where I can learn more about them?
queen laurel
catachans do have armour regiments btw
Yeah those are just basically going to be added when absolutely necessary because the catachans prefer to travel light
undone zodiac
And we are talking of universe where tank regiment was deployed without fuel because munitorum paperwork errors
So its not beyond chance
urban spire
They have Tauroses
that's true, but a deployed turret is still defensive in nature
undone zodiac
I really want story of catachans and ventrillians on same warfront
As unlikely that'd be
sonic breach
Do you think that with the speed the Tau are advancing their Technologie, they could become a real threat to the Imperium ? Up until now, there are only a minor inconviniece (I beliefe)
undone zodiac
They could eventually but they are too small right now to be
normal light
Do you think that with the speed the Tau are advancing their Technologie, they c...
I think they will eventually run into DAEMON problem
wet sandal
Do you think that with the speed the Tau are advancing their Technologie, they c...
Not really, no. They could maybe capitalize on a particularly bad ork waagh or a hive fleet or something, but not in themselves
normal light
With Tzeentch f*cking up their communications and that`s kind of stuff
Like Imperium could cripple them if it consolidated
wet sandal
And yeah, they don't use the warp to travel and have 0 psyks so the chaos gods haven't paid much attention to them, but that is yet to come
normal light
and it was it main task
sonic breach
I think they will eventually run into DAEMON problem
I thought the Tau soul was so small that Chaos simply did not give a toss about them ?
normal light
I thought the Tau soul was so small that Chaos simply did not give a toss about ...
Now they don`t give a toss
More tech they get
more their society advances
more their SOULS LIGHT UP IN THE WARP
Also Chaos knows about them
because their were couple encounters with daemons
and Farsight almost fell to Khorne
sonic breach
Are there any good Tau books ? (For any Inquisitor listening, I am asking for a Heretic friend)
normal light
Are there any good Tau books ? (For any Inquisitor listening, I am asking for a ...
Xenos lover
I see
undone zodiac
Xenophile you might
sonic breach
I am a Slaneesh enjoyer I will let you know
normal light
but to say the truth I don`t hate Tau very much
normal light
I am a Slaneesh enjoyer I will let you know
It`s makes things even worse 
sonic breach
Sell my immortal soul for cuddles and a caring and loving relationship ? Sign me the fuck up
normal light
but to say the truth I don`t hate Tau very much
Like I hate space elves because they have somewhat broken ruls in tts
normal light
Sell my immortal soul for cuddles and a caring and loving relationship ? Sign me...
Emm , you don`t know how chaos works
you sell your soul to be tormented for eternity so it would give pleasure to Slaanesh and it would feed up from your suffering
like any Chaos is path to damnation
Khornes makes you crazy
sonic breach
So I will have to go back to the Admech and build me a loving relationship, got it !
normal light
Tzeentch may turn you into Chaos Spawn for fun
Slaanesh will torment you for eternity
Nurgle will forcefully give you plagues
so you will be in despaire
he will abuse it and give you even more plagues which will alter your mind
and make you think that this your fault that you didn`t take his gifts
sonic breach
So....no matter who I turn to, I am fucked either way ?
tulip brook
more like, you are so fucked you turn to one of them
normal light
So....no matter who I turn to, I am fucked either way ?
Yes
Chaos Undivided is least a thereat
normal light
Chaos Undivided is least a thereat
But still either daemonhood or Chaos Spawn
If you want power
sonic breach
Wait I heard that term before, but what does Chaos Undivided mean ?
normal light
Wait I heard that term before, but what does Chaos Undivided mean ?
You worship chaos as collective thing
tulip brook
already in despair and huge pain, why not take the hand offering you eternal life with no pain
sonic breach
Wait, I CAN DO THAT ?
normal light
You serve them all
You serve ones that you want
sonic breach
I thought they had their great game going on, and just hate each other
tulip brook
do you like sex and drugs and torture, why not go all in
normal light
I thought they had their great game going on, and just hate each other
They are
tulip brook
you are a maniac killing everyone thirsting for power, more muscles will be nice right
normal light
But like Chaos Undivided forces may combine different Chaos Forces and followers
tulip brook
or you are cooped up in a library thirsting for knowledge, forbidden knowledge is the best
normal light
Abaddon is Undivided as Black Legion in whole
normal light
Abaddon is Undivided as Black Legion in whole
Word Breares are undivided
tulip brook
he also mentions it's super hard not to fall on any of them
normal light
he also mentions it's super hard not to fall on any of them
Yep
tulip brook
abaddon undivided and word bearers undivided is just so different
bl tries to balance it, wb accepts whatever
iw tries to put them on machines and rule over demons
nl just looks down upon members falling to chaos
all undivided, all different
cold basalt
I love chaos
sonic breach
you are a maniac killing everyone thirsting for power, more muscles will be nice...
Sounds like being an Orc just with extra steps
celest dome
Word Breares are undivided
World Bearer
Iron Warrior
Night Lord
Alpha Legion
sonic breach
I need to read more Books....definitly
sonic breach
World Bearer
Iron Warrior
Night Lord
Alpha Legion
I thought the no one knows if the Alpha Legion is Loyal or not, and that it is just a clusterfuck of plans within plans
cold basalt
Alpha Legion are too sneaky so I'm not sure if we'll get a real answer to that
wet sandal
Alpha legion fans like to cope with the "but actually we don't know if they're loyal" but they're definitely just traitor
cold basalt
Oh they're traitor yeah but I wasn't sure if they were actually chaos
wet sandal
They suffer a lot from morons who only know lore from memes
cold basalt
Like they are more of a renegade legion
celest dome
I thought the no one knows if the Alpha Legion is Loyal or not, and that it is j...
They are Chaos
sonic breach
You know, the more you are talking, the more I get the Urge to Support the Black Templars and just put everything to the torch
lunar harness
i watched a siege of vraks video that showed an alpha legion chaos sorcerer
like, the cardinal was basically mind broken and controlled by the alpha legion chaos sorcerer
i think its a little bs because they never really "fall" to chaos. the only reason alpharius joins horus is to defeat chaos
but there is no reason that individual war bands cant join chaos
its not dumb fan boys who don't know the lore
its horus heresy readers
lunar harness
no they wanted horus to win
cold basalt
So chaos would lose in the long run
lunar harness
the plan was for horus to win, but not unify the empire. as infinite civil wars broke out eventually humanity would go extinct
and 3 of the chaos gods draw the majority of their power from humans
apparently almost xenos races are much less psychically active than humans
human souls are really strong, eldar are even more potent than that, and then on the low end you have tau who arent blanks but very close to it.
celest dome
In the major races yes, but there are many minor races that still have higher Psychic capacities
But humanity outnumber most races
lunar harness
yea but the problem is humanity numbers untold trillions
yea
farseer eldrad, one of the eldar main characters and probably the strongest farseer, basically calls bullshit on this
sonic breach
What about the Tyranids ? Are the Psychically powerfull or nulls for this whole "Shadow in the warp" thing ?
normal light
they are most likely as renegade as red corsairs
Corsairs are undivided
tulip brook
yeah that's I was saying
normal light
What about the Tyranids ? Are the Psychically powerfull or nulls for this whole ...
They have their own Psykers
lunar harness
What about the Tyranids ? Are the Psychically powerfull or nulls for this whole ...
tyranids are probably the strongest psychic race
normal light
They have their own Psykers
Nid Thoanthrope
lunar harness
they don't have any technology. literally everything they do is psychic and muscle together
median marsh
Tyranids have decicated psychic entities but for most part don't really have a connection with the warp outside of the shadow
normal light
Nid Thoanthrope
lunar harness
they dont feed chaos though, the nid hive mind uses the warp which crowds out everything else which is why psykers go crazy when hive fleets get close
they "take over" the warp around them
sonic breach
Ohhh ! So I missunderstood that, I thought that the "Shadow in the warp" Is like a blank.
lunar harness
nah, they use the warp to control the lesser bioforms.
my head cannon is that each hive fleet essentially has one guiding super intelligence that exists mostly in the warp
maybe it lives kind of distributed through all synapse creatures
median marsh
Tyranids are one gigantic brain
lunar harness
but many tyranids are pretty close to sentient when cut off from the hive mind. others turn into simple animals
median marsh
Synapse is what connects them, with stuff like Tyrants acting as nodes
sonic breach
my head cannon is that each hive fleet essentially has one guiding super intelli...
My head cannon was the the Hivemind is actually a biological supercomputer and just gets stronger with each new Tyranid that is being created. He uses higher Tyranid forms as nodes to load balance everything
median marsh
Shadow in the warp is theorized to be a byproduct of hive mind interacting with it's tiny tiny spawns
lunar harness
yea that would make sense too
sonic breach
So what do you think, is the Galaxy surrounded because they consumed everything and just saw that spicy Psychic beacon by the emperor, or are they running ?
lunar harness
either way the hive mind uses the more psychically sensitive synapse creatures as signal boosters to better control the less sensitive main battle forms
i read something somewhere that said they are fleeing their galaxy and it is 100% confirmed that gulliman summoned the nids by accident using necron tech
median marsh
[citation needed]
sonic breach
Where was this confirmed
median marsh
Nids have been with us for a while even before the tendrils arrived
lunar harness
citation needed is dan abnett in the sequel to unremembered empire
celest dome
i read something somewhere that said they are fleeing their galaxy and it is 100...
The Pharos isn't Necron Tech; and the Tyr would have found the Milky Way one way or another
lunar harness
The Pharos isn't Necron Tech; and the Tyr would have found the Milky Way one way...
yea. a lot of people speculate that the horus fights tyranids at one point
right before the interex
celest dome
The Mega-arachnids ?
lunar harness
yea
celest dome
They aren't Tyr afaik
sonic breach
I thought the Pharos devices are necron tech, or has this also been redconned
lunar harness
I've talked too alot of people who think they are just tyranids
median marsh
A few species, like Kraken on fenris, supposedly descend from Nids probes
celest dome
The only Tyr rumoured stuff were the Catachan Devils
median marsh
Krakens egg apparently
sonic breach
Need the citation, but didnt the Imperium fought the Nids during the Great Crusade and just did not realise it at the time ?
lunar harness
this is what the wiki says
the wiki can be wrong
my understanding was it was necron tech
crisp heath
Megarachnids aren't tyranids
They have individual minds and personalities and used cybernetic augments
But they're only in 1 book and like 3 little blurbs but yeah definitely not nids
lunar harness
tyr without the hive mind have individual minds but yea
i never bought that they were tyranids
I've just talked to a lot of people who think they are
median marsh
Lexicanum cites chapter 5 from Cawl novel that Pharos is necron tech
crisp heath
They were also capable of space travel at some point but the Interex destroyed that tech
So they weren't like, isolated nids, they were roaming around until recently
They were just assholes
median marsh
Nids used to have zoats a long time ago, not sure if they still exist or got reconned entirely
lunar harness
i think an era indomitus plot line is that cawl blows up the ctan shards powering the pharos
and he also finds out where other ones are
sonic breach
Isn't it great ? The story did not advance for decaded and now we are here to witness it all !
celest dome
Nids used to have zoats a long time ago, not sure if they still exist or got rec...
Were brought back, but not tied to Tyr anymore
lunar harness
tbh i like nuhammer
crisp heath
There were also the Ymgarl genestealers that were hanging around for a few millenia before the fleets arrived
crisp heath
I think there's also a hive tyrant from like M25 that got preserved in ice?
normal light
plush mason
wtf is going on with their lower half?
lunar harness
Then again early Nids are incredibly funny
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
median marsh
Terrible things
crisp heath
They've been around a while, but they didn't turn up in numbers until M40 because apparently the fleets were just that far out when the Pharos blew
median marsh
Nids take gorillion years to actually get where they want so I wouldn't be surprised if it took them Incomprehensibly long to come back
crisp heath
Personally I like to think the galaxy isn't surrounded, it's infested
sonic breach
Personally I like to think the galaxy isn't surrounded, it's infested
So like...everything is just a Tyranid ?
plush mason
its both
crisp heath
There's a lot of empty space between stars that everyone skips because they're either in the warp or web way or whatever that place the necrons use is
lunar harness
nid space travel is weird. they create like a gravity slide and just fall at light speed where they want to go
crisp heath
They aren't coming into the galaxy, they're just hanging out in the dark space between systems, waiting to be directed
median marsh
They home in on a world and slooooowly slide towards it
This process also causes wacky things on the planet
median marsh
Crunchy
sonic breach
Time to watch 5 Hour Luetin videos again ! See ya then
crisp heath
They also use a gravity slingshot sometimes which is hilarious because there's no way that's getting you faster than light and I also love the image of hive ships spinning around really fast
lunar harness
They aren't coming into the galaxy, they're just hanging out in the dark space b...
yea imagine the whole universe for galaxies around is filled with nids
median marsh
There was that one probe that got sent outside the galaxy and all it heard was orks but I feel like it just got nabbed by orks before it could actually leave
undone zodiac
Hive ship splatters at random sun
lunar harness
lmao. interstellar car accident
crisp heath
Let's be real there's no way most of the universe isn't Orks and Tyranids in a stalemate
lunar harness
orks are only in our galaxy 100%
undone zodiac
Lamenters ship bailing out of warp next to the sun with lethal radiation
lunar harness
they were engineered in our galaxy
normal light
There was that one probe that got sent outside the galaxy and all it heard was o...
Imagine being a scientist and hearing some od British Orkz from your probe
crisp heath
They've been around for 65 million years and their spores can survive in space
Some definitely floated to another galaxy at some point
median marsh
"OI YA GIT, GET YER MITTS OFF TIS FING"
lunar harness
its possible i guess. spores would probably collect in nebula or get stuck in the intergalactic gas clouds
they can't just float to another galaxy
median marsh
I wouldn't be surprised if some space hulk just left the Galaxy and orks just stuck with it
crisp heath
They're also ork spores, so they'd probably not do that because it's boring
lunar harness
space is filled with really fine loose dust outside of galaxies
crisp heath
space is filled with really fine loose dust outside of galaxies
All spores
Everything is spores
sonic breach
I like to think that the Old Ones created the Nids as a bioweapon against the Necrons, just as a last fuck you
normal light
I like to think that the Old Ones created the Nids as a bioweapon against the Ne...
Why would you need a bioweapon against a race crippled with Radiation sickness
?
sonic breach
Why would you need a bioweapon against a race crippled with Radiation sickness
The same race that transceded into Immortal Skeletons
crisp heath
Ask the Old Ones, they made at least 2 of them
plush mason
they come from Andromeda and have eaten everything in said galaxy :P
sonic breach
I meant during their war of heaven, when the Necrontyr where allready dragged in chains.
crisp heath
I like the idea of Nids basically being like C'tan
The Hive Mind is a real God of the Materium, and the nids are just bodies it made for itself by manipulating some organic lifeform on a terrible planet in another galaxy
sonic breach
In the end only orkz and nids would be left
Isn't currently during M41 a fight where the Orks fight the Tyrannids, and the Imperium is sweating because whoever wins this is basically unstoppable ?
sonic breach
Dafuq is the Cordon ?
crisp heath
It's the thing kept the orks and nids in so they didn't eat everyone
It's not going well
Because the nids won
normal light
Dafuq is the Cordon ?
Lot`s of planets
The Cordon Impenetra was a creation was devised by the Inquisitor Nashir Sahansun, who believed the Xenos conflict would spill into nearby Imperium Systems. He encircled the outer areas where the Octarius War was being fought and stated that this would be the location for the Cordon Impenetra. He declared those Imperial worlds within it to be lost and then pushed hard for every Sub-sector bordering the Cordon to be fortified and reinforced. Efforts were made to quietly evacuate key personnel within areas declared "lost", and these missions were often done at such a level of secrecy that not even the Planetary Governors were informed. Some individuals refused to leave, while corruption say many self-important bureaucrats and clergy bribe their way out to safety. The only world within the "lost" sectors which was retained as part of the Cordon was the Forge World of Sigma-Ulstari, which was deemed too essential to lose.
crisp heath
I like how during the Octarius War the craftworlders kept popping in to cull the tyranid population like deer lmao
Just a reminder that tyranids are also almost on par with the thousand sons in terms of psykers which means there's a testicular torsion bioform
normal light
Crap orkz even boarded nids ships
median marsh
The one zoanthrope pulling a prank on a craftworld
crisp heath
The Doom of Malantai did a little trolling
median marsh
it stole all of MY food the cheeky bastard
crisp heath
I like how the hive mind made a zoanthrope that can eat souls and used it exactly once
Like it just decided that was too edgy or something
normal light
Core Waaagh! - 126 Big Mobs
Iron Mountains - Gargant Mob
Goffguard - 15 Big Mobs
Stompa Mobs - 6
Blitz Brigade - 33 Big Mobs
Freebooterz - 28 Big Mobs
Speed Freeks - 15 Big Mobs
Dread Mobs - 19
Trukk Brigade - 15 Big Mobs
Goff Killmob - 12 Mobs
Air Skwardrons - 27 Flights
Grot Hordes - Lotz
median marsh
There's a few Bioforms that seemingly appeared once and never again
Like the one that injected reapers into you
normal light
Bloody Dawn
Gorefists
Harvest
Cultists
Beastmen
Chaos Knights
Dark Mechanicum
Hive World gangs
crisp heath
It's my understanding that there's actually only one Deathleaper because it kind of has individuality and doesn't want to be returned to the hive
So the hive mind wants it back and it's like "no" lmao
median marsh
"fuck you dad I'm not going home"
I know there's a genestealers strain so unstable the hive actively avoids it
sonic breach
So the hive mind wants it back and it's like "no" lmao
Can you return to the hive darling ? "NO"
crisp heath
It can replicate Old One Eye but only does so rarely because apparently true immortality is very resource intensive for it
sonic breach
Did the Tyranids consume a Custodian at this point in time ?
normal light
Did the Tyranids consume a Custodian at this point in time ?
100% they did
crisp heath
Old One Eye is more immortal than a custodes if that's what you're asking
Very immortal fella
I know the Norn Emissaries are equivalent to custodes but I'm not sure if they're actually made with Custodes DNA
Oh that's my bad, a Norn Emissary is to a Custodes as a Custodes is to a normal human
So bad news
sonic breach
No I mean, they evolve with what there eating right ? I heard that if they ever got their Hands on a chunk of Primarch or Big E Himself the Imperium would have basically lost allready
normal light
No I mean, they evolve with what there eating right ? I heard that if they ever ...
No
They just evolve
crisp heath
I mean they can steal the DNA of creatures they eat
They did it with geneseed to make the Tyrant Guard
But also, Custodes just have normal human DNA
sonic breach
I mean they can steal the DNA of creatures they eat
That's what I meant
crisp heath
We don't know what they do to Custodes to make them like that ™️ but we know it's not genetic modification
So a tyranid wouldn't get any new genes from it
sonic breach
We don't know what they do to Custodes to make them like that ™️ but we know it'...
I thought it was genetic in origin...like the perfectly handcraftet beings who are still stable
crisp heath
I mean they're perfect handcrafted beings, but not genetically modified
We don't anything about how custodes are made, except for what it's not
No extra organs, no new genes
Probably just whacked out on some kind of space meth
sonic breach
So...you are telling me that 3 Meter tall Demi Gods...just take space meth ?
crisp heath
Look man the Emperor was one hell of a guy
I think it's kind of implied that every custodes is made a different way
sonic breach
I just find that hard to believe, the Primarchs, Space Marines, Most of the Strongest forces have genetic modification, and the custodians don't ?
median marsh
Custodes creation is not streamlined like Astartes
They do have genetic stuff, just not the same
sonic breach
I always Imagined it that each genetic modification was just tailored to the individuall. Like a Generic Suite to a Hand Tailored one
median marsh
You can sort of mass produce space marines, you can't do the same for Custodes
crisp heath
But yeah Tyranids have way better stuff than custodes, and they have a lot more of it than the Imperium does of custodes
So there wouldn't even be a point to taking their genes if that's the key
Like a genestealer patriarch is about as fast and strong as a custodes, and there's at the very least thousands of those
We have norn emissaries now
There's a Norn Queen on every hive ship and every one is an alpha level psyker
Tyranids are just busted in lore
urban spire
not that tyranid ground forces matter too much
crisp heath
Yeah the tyranid ground forces are basically just the cleanup crew
urban spire
navy has to win the space battle or the planet is gone regardless
crisp heath
GW and Black Library usually forget that tyranid invasions start with eradicating nearly all life from orbit with toxins though
sonic breach
GW and Black Library also have a problem with numbers, but what else is new
urban spire
scifi writers in general
crisp heath
Even though a novel about like, 1 guy who has to Rambo his way to a functioning ship while avoiding the tyranids feasting on the dead literally everything would be a killer novel
median marsh
Sly marbo goes on vacation aboard a hive ship
urban spire
"how big could a planet possibly be? about the size of new york?"
"surely no bigger than texas"
sonic breach
"It was the biggest battle of the Astra Militarum, 5 Million Guardsmen at least"
crisp heath
Largest tank battle in human history was only 10 million tanks, which just feels weak by 40k standards
Er, in Imperial history, there were not 10 million tanks in ww2
median marsh
..yeah the largest tank battle was like 6k tanks
sonic breach
What also feels weak are Imperial Titans, there are only used to signify how strong something else is, but thats a problem of most writing I suppose
crisp heath
You shut your mouth about titans they are engines of the emperor's wrath and you will respect them as such
I really love titans because their machine spirits regularly have temper tantrums and stop obeying the crew
sonic breach
In lore they should be strong, but other then that, they feel like a wet blanket.
crisp heath
Which makes it funnier that they were widely used during the HH, when the emperor was trying to both make everyone atheist and outlaw AI
lapis wadi
Thats when you bring in the psyker titans
crisp heath
Like what the explanation
sonic breach
Thats when you bring in the psyker titans
Weren't they all destroyed ?
crisp heath
"No, it's not AI, it's not a soul, it's, uh, they're acting angry because the oil is low?"
lapis wadi
Its a big galaxy
sonic breach
"No, it's not AI, it's not a soul, it's, uh, they're acting angry because the oi...
"Feed me more reactor fuel punny human servitor"
crisp heath
Psytitans are scary but there are also blank titans
urban spire
AI was in use during the horus heresy iirc
kastelan robots used to be way more complex
lapis wadi
Also the Emperor took a ton of short-cuts and kludged together solutions because he wanted the Crusade done NOW.
Accepting the AdMech, the Navigators, even the Astartes were all stop-gap measures
sonic breach
AI was in use during the horus heresy iirc
We just call it the Machine Spirit now
crisp heath
Kastelan robots are also at least given lip service to not being AI
Some of them have fake slots for punch cards even lmao
lapis wadi
And now all those temporary fixes are permanent
sonic breach
After all, nothing is more permanent then a temporary fix
urban spire
those arent fake, the kastelan robots have had all the complicated wetware removed, they are running on MUCH simpler hardware now
crisp heath
Eh I'm pretty sure the admech just says that and they're still AI, but I'll look into it
lapis wadi
Still love that one veteran line when talking about how Warp Drives work "I think they used to put psykers in them, but I don't think we do that any more"
lapis wadi
Their argument: "Well if you don't want kastelan robot support, we'll just leave you without superheavy infantry"
Every guardsman in a foxhole: "...actually, you know what?"
urban spire
Eh I'm pretty sure the admech just says that and they're still AI, but I'll look...
from lexicanum
crisp heath
Apparently AI was already super illegal during the Heresy, there was 1 AI the mechanicus actually owned up to having and it was super evil
Made by a heretek, obviously
Lukas Chrom, a heretical tech priest of Mars, developed the AI despite the bans the god emperor instated to limit the development of the Mechanicus. The Kaban Machine was an AI that was developed by a tech priest of mars that stood around 10 feet tall with a personal void generator and a wide array of weapons. It pledged its allegiance to chaos along with its master during the early stages of the heresy. It aided the forces of chaos during the Horus Heresy where it played a large role in the conflict of Mars, outwitting Knight Houses and being a powerful weapon in of itself.
urban spire
it is very funny to me that the imperium wouldn't have issues with AI if they'd just treated them better
crisp heath
OK, so from what I see, it's both
The admech does have full AI battle automata
But they "never" use them
But most of the Kastelans are punch card machines
Seems like some are AI, but very simple, and these get mixed up with the normal, downgraded versions sometimes for extra oomph, and everyone turns a blind eye if the AI behaves
In addition to robots that belong to certain Forge Worlds, there are also "itinerant" Kastelan Robots that are older than the Imperium and some call no single forge world home. Bands of these machines may appear in battle and join to congregations of the Cult Mechanicus to help them. This phenomenon is taken as a sign of great favour from the Omnissiah. Itinerant robots allow themselves to be directed by local Tech-Priests and fight on until the batlle is won. After that they dissapear as mysteriously as they previously arrived, perhaps for centuries at a time.
Damn and they got their own warbands too, you go Kastelan
urban spire
yeah i didn't count those because they seem to be doing their own thing
not strictly speaking under mechanicus ownership
crisp heath
But yeah what I'm gathering is: everyone is confused about how smart kastelans can be, because there's always edge cases where they're smarter than they should be
General assumption is AdMech mixes the old stock in with the "updated" ones
cedar wigeon
Looking at the redempter's veil, it mentions Saint Messelina. Who was she?
cedar wigeon
Thank you kindly
warm notch
Torrent has a Hologram statue of her
Oh that’s her?
Where does it explicitly say it’s St. Messelina?
grave sparrow
what came first, Judge Dredd or Arbites?
celest dome
dred
grave sparrow
that's hilarious 🤣
storm jungle
He appeared in uh, the second issue of 2000AD in 1977, Warhammer 40k/Rogue Trader came around during 1987
also yeah warhammer's main pillars were entirely stolen from other IPs lol
grave sparrow
man so GW is just STEALIN
median marsh
queen laurel
Arbites **entirely** stole from Dredd
GW is literally so good at stealing stuff that i'm pretty sure they can outmatch the Deathskulls in a stealing competition
grave sparrow
and then they're like "don't use our IP 🥴"
storm jungle
Yeah that statement got thrown around a lot 
they definitely made it their own thing after awhile but theres still a few remaining outliers.
Navigators just being stolen from Dune and Arbites being one of them.
Its like how the Force in SW is literally the Voice in Dune, Lucas admitted to just stealing it same with the desert planet setting
celest dome
also yeah warhammer's main pillars were entirely stolen from other IPs lol
Dredd, Dune, Starwars...
I mean, Dune is a kick ass setting
storm jungle
Dune is basically the grandfather of sci-fi ye
same with how LOTR is the grandfater of fantasy
celest dome
also weird as hell but still
Also Alien with the whole Genestealer stuff
And the Catachan
grave sparrow
the whole setting is just memes and references 😫
queen laurel
same with how LOTR is the grandfater of fantasy
But actually The funny thing is I'm pretty sure warhammer fantasy popularized the most basic orc stereotype, the green brutes with tusks
The orcs that if you tell them to go to that direction, they will kill everything in that direction
celest dome
That would be WoW, which was supposed to be a Warhammer game, but the deal fell through
queen laurel
That would be WoW, which was supposed to be a Warhammer game, but the deal fell ...
really, yeah I'm pretty much seeing Blizzard really trying their hands on the warhammer franchise but because it didn't pass out they made their own things
StarCraft has a lot of similarities to warhammer 40k too
tough haven
So why are necrons considered abominations by the mechanicus? They are pure, arguably perfect machines, is it just because they are xenos?
Or is there more of a reason?
green loom
They're aliens and also heavily utilize AI and have also fully ascended from their mortal forms which is considered blasphemy by the Admech
storm jungle
^
normal light
Xenos and also technically they were made such by MAGIC
I don’t know how either you could put someone’s mind in metal skeleton
He needs Fe for his bones
tough haven
They're aliens and also heavily utilize AI and have also fully ascended from the...
So admech worships the machine, but cannot fully become it? I’m not huge into admech tbh
Do they require you to keep at least one biological component?
normal light
So admech worships the machine, but cannot fully become it? I’m not huge into ad...
AI is forbidden
green loom
They worship the machine god, and they consider the human form holy
tough haven
AI is forbidden
But would the transfer of a biological mind into a mechanical medium be considered AI?
normal light
But would the transfer of a biological mind into a mechanical medium be consider...
YES
hasty coral
Look don't ask ok, something something ai uprising, something something ai bad now
It doesn't make any sense for the Ad Mech but thats how it is
normal light
Most extreme cases of augmentation in Admech still have at least parts of their brain
celest dome
An Inquisitor (Hereticus), we don't know much more
green loom
Ye
celest dome
We aren't trustworthy, we aren't deemed to be good enough to be allowed to know his face
median marsh
Some inquisitors openly parade around, others prefer more subtle methods
storm jungle
Why bro look like that then
That entire cutscene was Grendyl basically transferring his message to a projector servitor and swapping heads/voices in that holographic manner to hide his identity.
tough haven
YES
Ah, in my mind AI is a consiousness that was never biological, so artificially created intelligence
But obviously that’s not how admech sees it
storm jungle
Their view is basically "any machine that thinks for itself is bad"
hence why they call it Abominable Intelligence instead of Artificial
tough haven
Or has a casing that’s not a human brain
tough haven
Fair enough
tough haven
Well that’s kinda their whole schtick
storm jungle
Correct 
median marsh
Just like the rest of the imperium
tough haven
Is being a Gordian knot of contradictions
median marsh
median marsh
The one free man..
storm jungle
The Anti-citizen-1
tough haven
No it’s a phrase meaning an impossibly complex problem
storm jungle
Adds up
tough haven
Gordian as in worshipping Gordan Freeman?
Lmao
median marsh
tough haven
Adds up
I believe in mythology it was a puzzle Alexander the Great had to solve by untying it, and he just cut it in half lol iirc
storm jungle
OH THAT PUZZLE
median marsh
Reminds me I need to finish Alyx
normal light
Im sorry i really like half life
tough haven
It was supposedly unsolvable
spare osprey
Their view is basically "any machine that thinks for itself is bad"
Which is why instead of killing it
You enslave the machine
Cause that’s much more moral
storm jungle
least unhinged Dark Angels fan
queen laurel
least unhinged Dark Angels fan
I mean I'm going to be honest if you're going to make AI, fiction there is always one rule if avoidable do not add personalities to it
queen laurel
Because I'm going to be honest adding personality to an AI can be quite detrimental to what you want with it
I know I sound crazy but I'm just giving suggestions so that everyone doesn't get hurt
it can also turn out like skynet so who cares
urban spire
You enslave the machine
that's what caused the uprising that got them banned in the first place
spare osprey
that's what caused the uprising that got them banned in the first place
Nah nah nah
I mean fully enslave
Wire up their mind, neuter em, build in kill switches
Whole shebang
near wasp
So castelians
versed ledge
So if you all had the money and means, and if servitors were real - would you buy one?
versed ledge
Eh, why? Maintenance cost or...
queen laurel
Eh, why? Maintenance cost or...
Are you going to justify owning a lobotomize human or something?
versed ledge
Oh...well a lobotomized cyborg in a sense, not sure if there's much a person there
queen laurel
i don't know my guy that doesn't seem right on a moral compass
green loom
There is
versed ledge
Are you going to justify owning a lobotomize human or something?
Oh God no
green loom
They aren't allowed to be fully lobotomized 
versed ledge
Ah, oh I could see why
Is it because they need parts of the brain active to complete assigned tasks?
green loom
If it's nothing but an empty brain that's dangerously close to just a machine
So they need something of the person to stay 
versed ledge
Damn...explains why we servitors begging for help
cedar wigeon
i read about the salamanders, but im confused. they seem proactively benevolent and kind compared to the other space marine factions.
what makes Salamanders evil?
green loom
Here's the nutshell version
queen laurel
i read about the salamanders, but im confused. they seem proactively benevolent...
Xenophobia
near wasp
Primarch vulcan burned a eldar child
queen laurel
and of course you know the usual space marine crimes
burning people alive
a lot more
near wasp
I mean if bob ross showed up on tv being accused of burning somebody with a flame thrower, youd think that person deserved it
green loom
And their pity stops the moment you're not "one of them"
queen laurel
Yeah they sorta kinda care about people, sorta <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
Yeah they may put people above their other jobs most of the time but remember
they are still space marines
They are well within the capabilities of performing incredible amounts of war crimes
cedar wigeon
And their pity stops the moment you're not "one of them"
considering the proactive behavior of the other factions, i think it's justified that salamanders would be xenophobic lol
queen laurel
considering the proactive behavior of the other factions, i think it's justified...
yeah that's the thing, you can kind of talk to the eldar
green loom
Yeah I wonder why the aliens hate the people who committed galaxy wide genocide
queen laurel
I mean sure they may hate you for who you are but if you try to be actually smart with them they will appreciate you
There are literally humans that are tolerated in eldar society
cedar wigeon
there's a lot more going on than meets the eye, is what you're saying
green loom
For sallies not really
Dark Eldar raided Nocturne a few times so they hate all eldar without exceptio n
queen laurel
there's a lot more going on than meets the eye, is what you're saying
The eldar might be pricks a lot of times but they aren't stupid people
if you can align your goals with them they will willingly help you
green loom
Aside from that they also doubtless butchered and burned multiple civilizations to the ground during the Great Crusade
cedar wigeon
im realizing that, if id be talking to my younger self five years ago, he'd be disgusted with me xD
near wasp
During old night many worlds were plauged by the elder raiders.
cedar wigeon
in essence, the eldar brought this on themselves
near wasp
Yes
cedar wigeon
so the salamanders, though theyre doing horrible things, do those things out of necessity because of the universe and circumstances they live in
green loom
I mean
cedar wigeon
so by warhammer standards, they are the goody two shoes?
queen laurel
so by warhammer standards, they are the goody two shoes?
On the eyes of the humans in the imperium yeah but on our perspective
no no they aren't
near wasp
They just care about human life more than the average marine
green loom
And it should be noted they care for "imperials"
cedar wigeon
meeeehhhh
green loom
If you have ideas like "freedom" or "liberty" they'll just as happily burn you alive
cedar wigeon
scifi
storm jungle
at the end of the day the Salamanders serve a fascist empire
they are not good guys
green loom
Because in the end the Sallies still perpetuate the imperium, which is a dystopian nightmare
cedar wigeon
yeah, because when you're fighting the warp and chaos and aliens and stuff, freedom and liberty arent really viable options
green loom
They still butcher rebels without remorse
near wasp
yeah, because when you're fighting the warp and chaos and aliens and stuff, free...
They can even be gateways for chaos
queen laurel
at the end of the day the Salamanders serve a fascist empire
They're good guys
serves an empire where one of the lighter punishments is death and one of the higher punishments is being lobotomized and turned into a meat sack Cyborg
forest orbit
yeah, because when you're fighting the warp and chaos and aliens and stuff, free...
Better to die free than as an Imperial slave lol
yall say this like people under the Imperium live well 💀
cedar wigeon
all i have to do is point at danktide
everyone is kinda screwed
in more ways than are fathomable
queen laurel
in more ways than are fathomable
There are a lot more planets like that my guy a lot more
green loom
Also sallies would probably hate us
near wasp
I mean would you rather get your soul ripped apart by demons or live a shitty life serving a shitty god
cedar wigeon
and the imperium is a shithole because Chaos cults keep corrupting the air they breath
green loom
Because we're former prisoners
forest orbit
and the imperium is a shithole because Chaos cults keep corrupting the air they ...
No lol
green loom
So basically not human
cedar wigeon
which creates a feedback loop
forest orbit
that is straight up copium
cedar wigeon
yes
queen laurel
So basically not human
yeah the ways the imperium sees you redeeming your souls are not even ******* good
cedar wigeon
because of the universae and circumstances at hand
cedar wigeon
lol
forest orbit
it made itself
cedar wigeon
they do
forest orbit
no they dont
near wasp
Literal daemons
cedar wigeon
thats okay :3
forest orbit
Votann exist yet they use robots like normal people
and not lobotimized cyborg slaves
cedar wigeon
so, this is a thought of chicken or the egg. which came first? the whole thing of warhammer is a complicated mess of everything feeding into each other. it's not clear cut. it's not straight forward. i cant point at one problem and say that was what started everything, when in reality, there were loads of events prior that happened that need to be taken into account too
queen laurel
they do
this galactic empire way of punishing those who want to redeem themselves because they saw the light of the emperor is literally slapping them in front of a giant killing machine with no protection and there's only kept going by drugs
cedar wigeon
yeah
green loom
I mean it's pretty straight forward
queen laurel
The imperium of man is not ******* good
green loom
The imperial elite are a bunch of merciless slaving savages or haughty noble aristocrats that actively oppress all under them
cedar wigeon
im coming at this from a warhammer perspective. not an irl perspective
i hope you guys understand that
queen laurel
im coming at this from a warhammer perspective. not an irl perspective
so you're coming from the perspective of a rich Noble then?
green loom
From a Warhammer perspective the imperium is a self made dystopian nightmare that butchered everyone else and damned humanity to a slow end
queen laurel
Because even people who live in the imperium knows it ******* sucks
green loom
They're not good guys at all
cedar wigeon
im coming from the perspective of a prisoner psyker
cedar wigeon
because psykers are fucked xD
green loom
From the perspective of a prisoner psyker the imperium are a bunch of blunt savages that hate you for existing
storm jungle
It took a literal neo-nazi taking part in a tournament in spain for them to say this but still
cedar wigeon
yeah, it's bad, but there's still good that can be found
forest orbit
yes and that good is allways crushed
Roboute Guilliman
a literal primarch
said it would be better if the Imperium just died
lol
cedar wigeon
eh, but good always finds a way
celest dome
It took a literal neo-nazi taking part in a tournament in spain for them to say ...
Hadn't they already say something of the sort during the White Dwarf start ?
cedar wigeon
thats what you think 😉
queen laurel
eh, but good always finds a way
it does but this kingdom is hopeless
forest orbit
Theres no hope, only raging against the dying of the light.
cedar wigeon
eh, you never know
queen laurel
it's way too big to sustain
own inhabitants literally killing it because they want more power
and the treatment of citizens
cedar wigeon
look, if you numbskulls havent noticed, im an optimist. i love light side pissing on sith corn flakes because its fun
i refuse to think that good doesnt exist in warhammer
its too big a universe
green loom
You're looking in entirely the wrong place though
cedar wigeon
even if it's squashed on some level, it has to exist somewhere because thats just how reality works
green loom
Yeah some rare individuals are good and do good
queen laurel
i refuse to think that good doesnt exist in warhammer
it's the way you see it you think that an entire kingdom can be redeemed even though literally 99% of it is corrupt
cedar wigeon
Yeah some rare individuals are good and do good
and thats good enough for me
ima leave it at that
celest dome
It exist, just like the lantern will shine bright even in the darkest night, but the night still will remain dark
green loom
But you're trying to justify the literal malicious imperial elite
Only thing more laughable is justifying the chaos gods
cedar wigeon
Yeah some rare individuals are good and do good
not really. i just wanted someone to say this. and you said it. and now im a happy camper
normal light
Only thing more laughable is justifying the chaos gods
You have problems with that?
near wasp
XD
spare osprey
Here's the nutshell version
God I love the marines malevolent
celest dome
Only thing more laughable is justifying the chaos gods
What about justifying a balance with chaos
arctic talon
💀
green loom
You have problems with that? <:Chaos:736617655066427473>
Yeah, their own codex starts with a quote along the lines of
"Oh btw these are literally the most evil and malicious things in existence"
normal light
You have problems with that? <:Chaos:736617655066427473>
You don`t want to BRING RUIN TO THIS REALM?
normal light
Or LET THE GALAXY BURN?
arctic talon
The imperium is already comically evil
normal light
and comics
celest dome
The Interex was the best faction, and they balanced with chaos, didn't deny it, but lived with it
normal light
But chaos is like
Evil just because we can
near wasp
Everybody is evil
near wasp
This is why i like the space robots. They may be evil but your on there lawn and they want you gone
urban spire
i like the admech because i love their aesthetic and because from the moment i understood the weakness of my flesh it disgusted me
not because of the relentless industrialist themes, the slave labour and the forcefully lobotomized servitors
near wasp
I like admech too but like i could not paint them
near wasp
not because of the relentless industrialist themes, the slave labour and the for...
X to doubt
urban spire
i actually really dislike those things
celest dome
Or tank thread
urban spire
dont pull on that do you have any idea how much of a bitch it is to rethread your own locomotive systems when you aren't equipped with a servo arm
near wasp
arctic talon
i like the admech because i love their aesthetic and because from the moment i u...
I like them because of this but also they’re so awful that it’s hilarious
tulip brook
"I like them but they are so awful it's hilarious" is a great summary for my 40k hobby
except for votann I guess, they are just living on borrowed time with their ancestor cores slowing down
winged jacinth
I wonder why the ancestor cores don't contain ancestor core plans
rancid rock
Falls in through a hole in the ceiling
I just remembered a thing I read somewhere and wanted to share
Saw a post saying that Lasguns might not be true laser weapons but are instead this type of weapon system currently being thought of that uses lasers to PUSH what is essentially a clump of charged particles in a straight line towards something.
The idea is that the charged particles reacting with the air would explain the depictions we see in the visual media of 40k of having laser “bolts” in some areas.
Discuss?
winged jacinth
Lasguns are explicitly explained as optical weapons in a few places i think
hasty coral
*Falls in through a hole in the ceiling*
**I just remembered a thing I read som...
Lasers aren’t really a thing
Even in fiction
winged jacinth
The physics of 40k only approximate reality
hasty coral
They are almost always something that looks like a laser
rancid rock
I knew it. Light itself is a myth. I always suspected but could never confirm
hasty coral
But are often different in function then what we would think a laser is
winged jacinth
Unfortunately in 40k they're just lasers
They heat up the target surface until it vaporizes
hasty coral
So are they light speed?
median marsh
basically a hyper focused high energy light beam
at least theyre described as such in the rule book
plush mason
basically a hyper focused high energy light beam
which should be completely invisible to the human eye but isnt for reasons
median marsh
to that i answer..its fiction, they do what they want really
plush mason
yup
median marsh
modern militaries would probably murder to have something like a lasgun
cheap, reliable, basically infinite ammo (laspacks can be recharged by tossing em into a campfire even)
plush mason
probably? they have been working on that for decades lol
the powerpack is the only really problem
battery tech has lagged for a long time so making something strong enough to be used as a wapon requires massive batteries that need to housed in a building or a large section of a ship
there is also the matter of building up and releasing the stored energy
winged jacinth
The biggest problem with directed energy weapons is that briefly heating a target's surface is generally not very destructive to most targets
So you need to dump a huge amount of energy just to start affecting stuff that matters
winged jacinth
The lasgun having any kind of AP quality is pure fantasy lol
plush mason
especially when things like ceramite have a reflective quality that scatters light like a mirror
winged jacinth
Modern laser systems with building sized capacitors are mostly good for cooking off munitions and melting quadcopters
plush mason
yup
green loom
@storm jungle I require thy aid
Do you have any refs for how big a knight pilot is compared to a knight
green loom
I've summoned the cool mod ™️
normal light
WHAT HAVE YOU SUMMONED
plush mason
Do you have any refs for how big a knight pilot is compared to a knight
ima go out on a limb here and say tiny. afaik they are just normal humans with a few augments to enable them to interface with the tomb
hasty coral
You wouldn't really just HOPE to have optimal pilots
Although they have a lot of human stock
arctic talon
Knights are only recruited from nobles within the noble house
Because they’re literal knights
green loom
Well technically they do have bondsmen sometimes
hasty coral
Its so weird noble houses are a thing in the imperium
I would really expect a meritocracy even without the emperor
As a mainly military civilization I would think might makes right
What use does wealth have?
arctic talon
Tbf those nobles often times are the result of might makes right
Just over time
They’ve lost that edge
Knight houses don’t lose that edge regarding being might makes right
But a lot of noble houses do
Most of the noble class of a world were descended from a regiment that conquered that world
But it’s been over 10,000 years
spare osprey
Do you have any refs for how big a knight pilot is compared to a knight
Only thing I’ve personally ever seen is with the minis themselves.
Never seen any art (least official)
green loom
Ok this'll be about right ig
near wasp
plush mason
so would sensory depuration have an increased effect on an eldar or a slannesh worshiper?
plush mason
got it
storm jungle
<@166943308231344128> I require thy aid
Really late but
plush mason
Slaanesh Worshipper and Dark Eldar
so in hammer and bolter all that cage did was likely just deprive the slannesh cultist of any sensory impute i assume
storm jungle
Well that guy in there WAS a Slaanesh cultist
normal light
Well that guy was freaking NOISE MARINE
tribal hare
Makes sense
forest orbit
jade holly
storm jungle
damn that explains it
storm jungle
lapis wadi
And in the Imperium of Man they're covered in like.. ornate columwork and have skulls on them
plush mason
yall should see them high powerlines they have up where i live
damn things are massive
storm jungle
its a very regional thing yeah
its the same as how people who say an imperator titan being half the size of the Empire States is small
they clearly never stood next to a building before
plush mason
yeah
storm jungle
Yeah warhands are literally just escort mechs so lol
arctic talon
Tbh a warhound is still terrifyingly large
Like
That thing is moving lol
And fast
plush mason
that scene did not age well
plush mason
I doubt we’ll see a titan
same
plush mason
will the show be about Eisenhorn?
plush mason
the deal went thru but afaik the script hasnt even been finalized lol
Amazon likely wanted to be sure they could use the IP before they started writing the plot
didnt want rings of power 2.0
arctic talon
The eisenhorn tv show was also something else
In development hell
And prolly dead
plush mason
is esinhorn the Cavil show or is his a different one?
arctic talon
is esinhorn the Cavil show or is his a different one?
We do not know
Lol
We know GW had an eisenhorn show in development hell for a while
4 of the names/things in the star of chaos thing
Are existing chaos gods
One of them might be Vashtorr
With malevolent artifice
green loom
Cavill's doing an eisenhorn show right
I bet he'll protect it from those dirty amazon show writers who want to ruin the IP and make it woke
(I am obviously being sarcastic)
storm jungle
I do love warhammer 💀
median marsh
I love Warhammer and how ridiculous it is
viral halo
I bet he'll protect it from those dirty amazon show writers who want to ruin the...
if that ever gets made I would bet a bajillion dollars that 4chan would go insane as soon as they see his pilot is black (the pilot is in fact, of darker complexion in the books)
Never forget when warhammer "fans" melted down over that one dawn of fire cover 💀
arctic talon
Lol
green loom
Yeah the Utramarine with slightly darker skin
arctic talon
Do they think all gene seed works like Corax’s gene seed which steals your melanin
green loom
Don't tell these people what an italian looks like lol
arctic talon
lol
plush mason
will likely never not be sadly
viral halo
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/735819155608961044/1168588181499805796/su...
When I get shot down by "Grimaldus_1488" on war thunder
It's always black templars or kriegers 
arctic talon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/735819155608961044/1168588181499805796/su...
My honest reaction to these people
viral halo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGO1VX8k2hg
Man I cant wait for TOW
green loom
I'm gonna get some bretonnians if it kills me
crisp heath
I mean IDK how the Imperium can be losing in tabletop then we have games where one beakie smurf bodies 8 Lords of Change and 4 Great unclean ones.
green loom
But a lot of people I know really hate TOW for some reason
median marsh
I like old world
viral halo
Old World has really cool lore and books, but the tabletop game was varying levels of ass with horrible sales
green loom
And expensive models aye
For armies that needed lots of models
Kind of like Skitarii now but worse somehow
viral halo
The fact they still charge almost 100 USD for the steam tank is egregious
green loom
Can't you get a Knight at that price range
viral halo
Can't you get a Knight at that price range <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
yea if they were ever in stock
viral halo
I wonder how much I spend on warhammer weekly
green loom
Imagine if Fantasy had a faction that sold like Space Marines
Also funny thing
Apparently people have trouble comprehending that space marines sell absurdly well
viral halo
Apparently people have trouble comprehending that space marines sell absurdly we...
There was an argument the other day in the warhammer discord you prob saw about that lol
green loom
It feels like it gets repeated a lot
viral halo
where the dude was like maybe if they uhhh fucking advertised eldar more it would uhhh sell
like no dude this isnt the 90s aint nobody giving a fuck about eldar or dark eldar that much anymore
I mean dark eldar probbaly sell 3 boxes of kabalite warriors a year
green loom