40k-lore-chat

[storm jungle]

yeah its entire reason it even exists is because of Aliens

[arctic talon]

So guess how much they costed

Lmao

[summer rover]

also i think one of the sculptors is jerking it to ripley in the power loader while we're talking.

[grave sparrow]

60 bucks?

[arctic talon]

They didn’t even have stat blocks first

[grave sparrow]

wait you can use them on the tabletop??

[arctic talon]

Think more

[grave sparrow]

What do they even DO

oh no

[arctic talon]

Yes

They suck

Lol

[grave sparrow]

it's... it's more than 60 bucks!?

[arctic talon]

They hit stuff

I’ve never seen one in person

[grave sparrow]

I mean if ripley can beat up a xenomorph queen in a loader, maybe this thing could kill a whole greater daemon

I want a whole army of them for the meme

[summer rover]

can't even imagine the level of banter having three of those on the table would cause.

[storm jungle]

also

truly the most grimdark age

even TV remotes arent safe

[arctic talon]

I’d prolly be impressed lol

They’re funny

[summer rover]

the van sarr pattern vibe!

[arctic talon]

[grave sparrow]

what is that?!

[storm jungle]

its a shock-stick

[grave sparrow]

like a giant fuck off cattle prod?

[storm jungle]

that is uh

extendable

[summer rover]

it takes a lot of satisfy an escher.

[storm jungle]

Yes lmao

[grave sparrow]

ahhh nice

[storm jungle]

speaking of i should get back to making my escher rogue trader

[storm jungle]

NOOOO

[scenic bolt]

took me like 15 minutes to find this old ass meme

[storm jungle]

I love how they put it on the penitent engine too

[grave sparrow]

I can bet you some unhinged parents out there used that though

[storm jungle]

to be fair

Americans

so

[grave sparrow]

Yall betta stay outta alabamer before ya kids done get crucified on the anti-masturbation cross

[summer rover]

it's not even a meme, that's what it acutally is....

[arctic talon]

What do you find on a pastors computer

[storm jungle]

the Imperium took anti-masturbation to a whole new level

[arctic talon]

💀

[storm jungle]

[grave sparrow]

Feel like you'd get branded as a cultist of slaneesh of you got caught wanking it

[scenic bolt]

'Jaeiydyn, you must find absolution on the battlefield, charge those Carpetbagger Northerner's lines'

[storm jungle]

I hate how you Sci-fi Name'd™️ Jayden

😩

[near wasp]

I join these convos at the weirdest times sometimes

[tropic olive]

Good evening, is the theory that Cypher is Omegon possible?

[summer rover]

yeah, most stupid things are possible in 40k, thanks to the writers not caring if they make sense

[grave sparrow]

Feel like it'd be rough to accurately collaberate across mutliple writers though.

Especially based on the apparent talent differences too

[grave sparrow]

I wish I liked twisted metal car combat more, speed freeks seemed like it could be fun, but I'm just not big into that genre

[grave sparrow]

oh I fuck with Mario Kart like games, that'd be hilarious with Orks

[crisp heath]

huffing the khornepium rn

wondering if khorne daemons literally do anything for fun except fighting

[grave sparrow]

I bet they like naps

[silver pollen]

They are also into thronebuilding.

The Skull Throne wouldn't build itself.

[earnest snow]

Honestly could be anything given they have their own personalities. Its just most of their time is dedicated to beating the ass hairs outta each other

[pale onyx]

Guys so daemons are shards of their respective gods, greater daemons being the biggest shards. Why don’t the chaos gods just double down and like make a planet sized greater daemon

[celest dome]

Well it's more complicated than that

[pale onyx]

I trust you know your stuff cacti

[celest dome]

Most Daemon are still somewhat independent, so if you empower one too much it will lead to it being able to go against it's master

Like Skarbrand with Khorne

[pale onyx]

Ah shit

[celest dome]

So giving it even more might lead to it being able to try to ascend to godhood to his own right

[pale onyx]

Then how about empowering a mortal who’s soul belongs to a chaos god to be like a daemon prince+ cus if they try anything they’ll rip their soul into pieces

[celest dome]

Same problem

If you give them too much it weaken yourself

[pale onyx]

True true

What about the giant ass chaos spawn Nurgle made that’s eating shit at a plague planet? Isn’t it the size of a mountain by now? Imagine deploying that bad boy against some titans

[crimson kayak]

Also also the bigger and stronger the daemon the more difficult to keep it in realspace

Most probably the nurgle dune worm and shit like that work as long as they stay near/on their daemon worlds

[crimson kayak]

Wait... That's just a normal daemon prince

[pale onyx]

No no, daemon prince. But stronger

And bigger

[crimson kayak]

So... Belakor?

[pale onyx]

Yeah a belakor for every Chaos god

[crimson kayak]

Ok now you are just speaking of daemon primarchs

[pale onyx]

Well I guess every chaos god has a daemon prince+ if you count the daemon primearchs

[crimson kayak]

What I truly don't understand is why we only see Slaneesh trying to avatar himself into real space when the others could probably do so too

[pale onyx]

I guess I just wanna see a big ass daemon tear some planets up

[pale onyx]

Wait what how they doing that

[crimson kayak]

Dunno, but I remember Bile speaking to slaneesh itself and going "you don't exist lol" and so he wasn't affected

Can't remember the specifics of the mortal form for slaneesh through

[queen laurel]

Slannesh is trying to get an avatar that can move in the physical world?

What is the damn thing trying to accomplish

[crimson kayak]

Oh no wait, Fabius meets like an Astral projection of slaneesh, just red up the excerpt

[celest dome]

Khorne did that once in fantasy iirc

[pale onyx]

I thought it was gonna be Nurgle trying that first.

Since nurglings and great unclean ones are copy and pastes of himself in different sizes.

He just needed to copy and paste one big enough for himself

[crimson kayak]

Also just checked, he doesn't have one yet but apparently there 's been 2 cases already of people chosen to become an avatar of slaneesh

[celest dome]

They aren't really interested in living in real space

[celest dome]

AoS or 40k

[queen laurel]

I can see why khorne wouldn't even bother with such an idea, he basically has infinite food hacks on in the universe he's in

[crimson kayak]

40k, both times they fail through

Also cause one fo the people "Chosen" was fucking Mephiston

[celest dome]

Eh, they most likely have more than 1 universe they are active in

[queen laurel]

Probably yeah

[pale onyx]

I can see why Nurgle wouldn’t want to go to real space. Since in his realm he has a mansion, he’s having a blast brewing plagues, he goes for walks and squishes plague toads whenever he wants, has a hot elf gf who he gives plagues to.

[celest dome]

I really hate it when people call her his "gf"

[queen laurel]

Now tzeentch, that guy would definitely try to go to real space because he might do some trolling

Who the fuck knows it's tzeentch

[celest dome]

They do so by their Daemons

But going into real space is uber dangerous
Like Slaanesh in AoS

[crimson kayak]

Btw I'm loving the ascension riser start with all the different pdf, corpses and post battle area's

[hallow saddle]

Slaanesh stops one of Bile's hearts in that scene
He may deny Slaanesh and chaos but he's completely under their thumb and honours Slaanesh in almost everything he does

[upbeat dagger]

do astartes ever take off the armor

[green loom]

Yeah

[upbeat dagger]

cuz the (im guessing from space marine) cutscene showcasing donning the armor implies that it is an extensive, one time process

[hallow saddle]

They get chapters serfs or servitors to assist. It takes a long time

[upbeat dagger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNspMmPzEb0

this is what im referencing

[crisp heath]

Some do actually wear it 24/7

But that's not normal

[hallow saddle]

They'll take it off for repairs too. Or just take partial sections off

They can't take off the implanted black carapace that's underneath

[upbeat dagger]

that's the false muscle right

[crisp heath]

It's more like a second skin that's also all techy

It allows better interface with their armor

[upbeat dagger]

how strong is an astartes without the armor?

[crisp heath]

They can punch through several inch thick steel without armor

[upbeat dagger]

as far as i'm aware although they're not quite ogryn strong aren't they still beyond superhuman

[crisp heath]

Some are stronger than that if the author wants a super cool guy

[upbeat dagger]

and that's the geneseed's doing right

[green loom]

That and mass amounts of steroids pumped into them

[crisp heath]

Just imagine the stupidest power fantasy you can and that's a space marine

Now make a think tank for stupid power fantasies and they'll come up with a primarch

[green loom]

If it weren't for sales I'd wager we'd have some sort of unarmored marines set up for stealth

[upbeat dagger]

isn't that basically phobos

[green loom]

No because Phobos is still big power armour

[upbeat dagger]

but yeah it'd be cool to see astartes with like, super stripped down armor

[crisp heath]

Tbf power armor is surprisingly sneaky anyway

[upbeat dagger]

isn't the power armor like one of the greatest creations in warhammer

[green loom]

Not really

[upbeat dagger]

also tangentially related but can cawl make existing marines into primaris? or are only new marines capable

[green loom]

Yes, it's a process called the Rubicon Primaris

[upbeat dagger]

so like, Kayvaan and Dante and all then are primaris now?

[green loom]

Yep

[upbeat dagger]

wait where tf do the primaris organs come from

if they're geneseed organs

[green loom]

Organs are grown and harvested separately iirc

[upbeat dagger]

thanks lexicanum

[green loom]

Basically every new character model post Dark Imperium

[upbeat dagger]

dark imperium is guiliman's books eight

right

[crimson kayak]

It's a bug, happens to me too

[green loom]

It was the first primaris box set I think

So Calgar, Dante, Kor Sarro, that Iron Father guy, Shryke, Mephiston etc.
Áll primaris

[crimson kayak]

More or less everyone now is a primaris

[gloomy citrus]

Except for Gabriel.

[hallow saddle]

When he gets a new model he almost certainly will be primaris

When/if

[gloomy citrus]

He hates Primaris.

[shadow plover]

Has Cato crossed the Rubicon yet?

[hallow saddle]

I don't think that's gonna make a difference!

[shadow plover]

Model hasn't of course but can't recall if it has happened in lore yet

[hallow saddle]

I think Cato has been in some recent art where it looked like he's primaris. But nothing confirmed either way iirc

[green loom]

He's fine with them now

[green loom]

He's commander of the Victrix guard, so probably primaris aye

[storm jungle]

Your lexicanum is broke

go to the bottom of the page

there should be something to click their to return it to normal

[crimson kayak]

i mean, not fair from the guy that's already a head taller than his brethern

[plush mason]

so any lore on how funerals are handled abord void ships?

do they have built in ossuaries for the officers or are they shot out into space space navy style?

[crimson kayak]

may depend on the fleet/ship, considering there's whole ass cultures around void-born crews

[plush mason]

true

[green loom]

Dump them in the furnace

[plush mason]

i assume thats the fate of the crew

the high born officers not so much

[green loom]

Dump them in the fancy furnace

[plush mason]

lol

[celest dome]

Nah, Corpse Starch production

[tropic olive]

Im sad now

[near wasp]

And then he was given half the imperium to watch over

[storm jungle]

Basically

If its someone important, preserve the body and bring them back to their planet for burial/memorialification

if its not someone important burn em and dump em

[tropic olive]

Damn, blud has lot to do

[rose thorn]

Corpse starch is made from fungi that grow in corpses right?

Idk why I keep forgetting

[arctic talon]

Depends

Sometimes its literal ground up dead bodies

other times its starch grown from dead bodies

[rose thorn]

If it’s shit grown from bodies thats unironically pretty smart, there’s a fungi that grow from bugs that people eat a lot

Anyway hello Bonjour

Thoughts on that new event thing?

With The Who ever wins gets their own reveals

[arctic talon]

I think its a cool idea

[near wasp]

maggot farms might also be a thing bodies are used for

[rose thorn]

Oh yeah wasn’t there some war tactic that has to do with battling in super heavy storms and shit?

[crimson kayak]

Now if only that wasn't limited by having to own a Leviathan box

[rose thorn]

Gw when the scalpers aren’t playing the game for their arg

[crimson kayak]

Also I would like to know how people have to send battle reports

as that could mean anyone could just fake a battle for it to count to their own popularity score

[rose thorn]

They did this before

[arctic talon]

ye

[rose thorn]

it didn’t end well

[arctic talon]

well

it ended well once

it ended poorely twice

the one time it ended well was for one of the 8e warzones

the times it ended badly were the old as shit 13th black crusade

that got banished to the retconian

and Endtimes

[small breach]

So are whiteshields their own detachment or are some whiteshields thrown in with professional guard regiments? Debating for tabletop how I want to portray this and wanted to stay as lore accurate as possible

[crimson kayak]

whiteshields are your pdf-equivalent for a regiment

conscripts, people to young/untrained to serve with the regiment

consider them like the scout marines of the guard

[arctic talon]

whiteshields from cadia fight alongside actual regiments

but it depends planet to planet

the reason why Cadian whiteshields do this is bcs they're children -> teens

[green loom]

Wasn't it Storm of Chaos

Aka end times before end times

Which just ended with orcs bodyslamming everyone

[crimson kayak]

i remember it ending with chaos winning and GW retconning it by having Grimgor come, bash Archaon and fuck off without killing him?

[green loom]

Way I read it was Orcs winning the actual thing then it getting retconned to Chaos

[small breach]

So if I intermixed say a shock trooper squad with a couple whiteshields with the hats it wouldn’t be too jarring?

[arctic talon]

From a lore perspective no

they'd be learning from their elders

[crimson kayak]

just read it up, basically chaos got balled by the ordertide costantly, then gw forced chaos to advance and then the players just went "yeah let's let the orks win"

and that's how Grimgor appears, stomps everyone, claims he's the best and leaves

[green loom]

It'd be kinda like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMYfPsRR1-Y&ab_channel=superhypermoose

[crisp heath]

How single minded are daemons and champions of certain chaos gods, are there khorne-aligned who enjoy hedonistic pleasure or Nurgle-aligned who enjoy complex plans like tzeentch?

[storm jungle]

Entirely depends on the daemon and champion

some are cunning some are stupid

Its pretty much only Khorne ones universally who are crayon eaters tho so

[gloomy citrus]

The only pleasure that Khorne daemons/champions get is from letting the blood flow.

[crisp heath]

from what I understand Tzeentch and Nurglites are open to other stuff to pass the time, but Khornates think doing literally anything except killing is a waste of time

[storm jungle]

Yeah thats what I jut said

they are just mostly stupid and want to kill shit

[crisp heath]

Oh okay

[storm jungle]

the diciples of other gods still got like uh

semi-high brain function

so they can do other stuff when not at war

[gloomy citrus]

Khârn's not stupid.

[storm jungle]

He is

anyway

thats the gist of it

[gloomy citrus]

Only the followers of Tzeentch do stuff that can be considered normal.

As in, not make you vomit.

[storm jungle]

I wouldnt really say casting spells and reading books that can turn you into chaos spawn "normal."

[gloomy citrus]

Well, compare that to the activities of other cultists.

[storm jungle]

I mean its the same thing

[green loom]

I think Slaaneshi goons are probably the most perceivable for us ngl

[storm jungle]

that too lol

Khorne is the most basic one

the other 3 gods' diciplines got more chill-time options

[green loom]

Khorne is either war or practice

[storm jungle]

Yeah pretty much this

because when a writer looks at them its like

[green loom]

hold on no

Khorne is either War or Warm up

[storm jungle]

"Uhhh, they do gladiator fights yes thats good"

[green loom]

That sounds better

[storm jungle]

kek

[gloomy citrus]

At least they're disciplined.

[green loom]

Hardly

[storm jungle]

Not really

LMAO

Have you like

seen the world eaters cover art

[crisp heath]

Only example I can think of is The Blood Pact worlds and that Valkia had kids and a family while serving chaos before ascending to khorne Daemonhood

[storm jungle]

they are literally mutated blood puking horribly malformed hordes of psychopaths

[green loom]

Khorne's main thing is devolving into a bunch of reckless savages

[gloomy citrus]

They've always been savage.

Even before the Blood God.

[storm jungle]

...Then why are you saying they are diciplined

[arctic talon]

the moment the world eaters get into a battle all sense of cohesion usually goes out the window

[green loom]

Think of Khorne followers as a big horde of rhinos

Some recognize other rhinos, the majority don't, and just run at the weird shapes they see in hopes of killing them

[storm jungle]

^

like

[gloomy citrus]

"Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it flows."

[storm jungle]

Thats still not adding anything to your case

all of us have established these

[green loom]

And it's a thing that khorne worship tends to forcibly turn you into a blood crazed madman

[storm jungle]

Speaking of

Example

[green loom]

That cover art has no business being that sick

[storm jungle]

ikr

Also chainsaw man cameo

[gloomy citrus]

Nails in their fucking brains.

[green loom]

I just wish they wouldn't use that guy for guard lel

[shadow plover]

my favourites

[storm jungle]

same

[green loom]

But he's perfect for chaos

[storm jungle]

Nah Lewis Jones is great for guard too

[gloomy citrus]

How does that even work?

[storm jungle]

he makes Imperials look like monsters

[green loom]

It's more personal taste

[storm jungle]

Its a mutation

[shadow plover]

enough angry

[storm jungle]

you are thinking too deep into this

[green loom]

I like starship troopers esque propaganda for my guard

[storm jungle]

it looks cool

so it exists

[gloomy citrus]

Khorne doesn't mutate his followers. At least, not to the extent that others do.

[storm jungle]

...

He does

[green loom]

Doesn't matter

Being near warpy bullshit will do that regardless

It has a tendency to distort and fuck with reality

[storm jungle]

Every chaos god mutates their followers too.

[green loom]

The fact that Khorne doesn't do "gifts" the same way as other gods is irrelevant

[arctic talon]

Khorne absolutely mutates his followers

in 40k

[storm jungle]

we got various examples of it

or you know

this cover art

[shadow plover]

looks pretty mutated

[green loom]

Or the eightbound

[storm jungle]

OH YEAH I FORGOT ABOUT EM

[green loom]

Ayo gimme some of that gym juice fr

[arctic talon]

8 bloodletters

one marine body

[gloomy citrus]

They look more like daemons.

[green loom]

The warp tends to do that

[storm jungle]

The warp surprisingly

warps people

[arctic talon]

its 8 daemons inside of a marine

of course they're gona look more daemony

[gloomy citrus]

So it's a Gal Vorbak on steroids?

[green loom]

Imo it's worse Gal Vorbak

[arctic talon]

Gal Vorbak actually work with their daemon

an Eightbound is more like a free for all for the controls

[shadow plover]

AoS has these things called Khorgoraths, they're pretty massively mutated khorne dudes

[storm jungle]

hes fucking

BUILT

[green loom]

I swear GW just has a massive set of 3-5 letter words they just roll the dice on for names

[storm jungle]

World Eater writers be like

"My name is Kalgorus Gorefuck"

[gloomy citrus]

It barely resembles a human.

[storm jungle]

...

BRO

THATS THE FUCKING POINT

[shadow plover]

ye but it used to

[storm jungle]

this is like me looking at a Lord of Change

and going

[arctic talon]

birb

[storm jungle]

"It looks like a bird, its stupid, its not chaos"

also we shifted topic like 6 times now on you dodging lore information

[gloomy citrus]

Why does Tzeentch have a thing for birds, anyway?

[shadow plover]

there's also that khorne bloodbowl dude with massive gains

[arctic talon]

Birds traditionally represent knowledge

[storm jungle]

Because birds IRL repreesnt things like the future and prophecy

[arctic talon]

^

[green loom]

Chaos is good

[storm jungle]

in various cultures

also same reason Magnus has one eye

because someone at GW read Odin's lore for 1 minute

and was like "yeah ill steal that"

[green loom]

Hey at least it isn't

Hold on

[shadow plover]

or rather made magnus a cyclops back when and then adapted it to fit the odin thing

[storm jungle]

oh my goooood

its gandalf the short

no wait

[green loom]

You can guess what the drones are called

[storm jungle]

Psykyn

Floatkyn

[arctic talon]

Magnus gave his eye as a down payment to stop the flesh change tbf

not really for knowledge

[shadow plover]

Grimnyr is a brilliant mini though

[storm jungle]

either way its a ripoff

[green loom]

I think it's straight up just Hugin and Munin lol

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah lmao

[arctic talon]

They're called CORV's

[storm jungle]

OH YEAH HE ALSO HAS A BIRD CREST

[arctic talon]

which

corvid

get it

[storm jungle]

OH MY FUCKING GOD

[arctic talon]

Corv

[storm jungle]

KILL ME

[arctic talon]

Corvid

[storm jungle]

STOP THIS

[green loom]

https://tenor.com/view/very-sus-fish-sus-fish-gif-25478870

[shadow plover]

hey that's awesome if you ask me

[arctic talon]

CORV's are a funny name

tbh

[green loom]

I've certainly seen worse

[storm jungle]

Yeah like uh

Brokher

[arctic talon]

Interceptor

[storm jungle]

instead of Broker

[arctic talon]

what are you intercepting

[green loom]

Cthonian Beserks

[gloomy citrus]

[arctic talon]

Cthonian Beserks

are a genuinely stupid name

[storm jungle]

totally not to be confused with Cthonia

Horus' homeworld

[arctic talon]

Cthonian just means underworld

tbh

[storm jungle]

I KNOW

[green loom]

Beserks

[storm jungle]

OH MY GOD

BESERKS

BECAUSE "BERSERKER" IS TAKEN

[arctic talon]

Berserks is

[green loom]

I would like to Beserk

[arctic talon]

really ba

*bad

[green loom]

You beserk my name

[arctic talon]

They could have just called them berserkers

[green loom]

That's a kick right in the beserks

[storm jungle]

Im about to go beserk being reminded of this "lore"

[arctic talon]

literally nothing would be uncopyrightable

about that name

[storm jungle]

i think its because of Khorne Berserkers

[arctic talon]

everyone I hear just calls them berserkers

[storm jungle]

so they cant share the same thing

[arctic talon]

They've had

[green loom]

Best part

[arctic talon]

very similar names in the past tho

for other things

[storm jungle]

How about

[arctic talon]

so its fine imo

[gloomy citrus]

Berzerkers.

[storm jungle]

i similiar name you in a minute

[arctic talon]

they've been called that for a while

so

[green loom]

Btw have you guys seen the Sternguard kit

[arctic talon]

the new one?

or the old one

[green loom]

No I mean they had no issues calling them berzerkers but called the other guys beserks

[arctic talon]

Yeah idfk

[green loom]

The new one

[arctic talon]

GW is weird

[storm jungle]

Its deffo tabletop related

[arctic talon]

yeah what about the new one

[storm jungle]

but like

[arctic talon]

the weird ass combi plasma it has?

[green loom]

Apparently they got mega gutted lmao

[storm jungle]

tabletop is shit

so yeet

[arctic talon]

They're literally broken as shit

[arctic talon]

anyone who says they aren't has actual brain damage

[green loom]

We'll see a new

[arctic talon]

Devestating wounds is literally free mortals

[green loom]

uh

[arctic talon]

on a 6

[green loom]

Rearguard Veterans model

[arctic talon]

their bolt rifle is absurd

lol

[green loom]

With the rest of the options

[arctic talon]

sternguard vets

are prolly getting another kit

bcs the one in leviathan is monobuild

and as we all know

marines have to get multiple releases a year

or else their fans will die of a heart attack

[green loom]

"NOOOO WHERE'S MY 3RD MONOWEAPON SQUAD"

[arctic talon]

lol

but seriously

the sternguard bolter is absurd

Assault, devestating wounds, rapid fire and fucking heavy

that shit does everything

[green loom]

I just want to point out how funny like

The SM roster is to me

Like in lore you'll see mixed squads

[arctic talon]

the hellblaster goes in the hellblaster slot

[green loom]

But then you can exclusively run squads with one weapon more or less

[arctic talon]

[green loom]

Meanwhile Black Templars

[arctic talon]

that data sheet

[storm jungle]

Ah the hellblaster

my favorite warhammer unit

[arctic talon]

is totally gona get consolidated lol

[arctic talon]

So true

[storm jungle]

anyway keep this up and ill kill you both

[arctic talon]

why

[green loom]

Just need to buy the best Primaris kit tbh

[storm jungle]

its late and i need to kill someone

[arctic talon]

lol

[storm jungle]

i must abuse my 1984 powers

https://tenor.com/view/civil-protection-ximxan-gorgeous-freeman-half-life2-gif-25691474

anyway jokes aside carry on

[arctic talon]

god the black templar hair cuts

[green loom]

I can talk about by new Fortress Monastery designs

[arctic talon]

are so silly

[green loom]

Or my chapter master's new design

[arctic talon]

go for it

[green loom]

I decided to go more for the knightly style I wanted instead of more traditional BA stuff

So I'm somewhat basing the bossman off the aforementioned Sword brethren since I like the whole Gorget thing they have going on

Main thing staying the same is his helmet

[arctic talon]

neat

[green loom]

As for the fortress monastery

It's going to be a massive overgrown star fort

On a mountain top

The intent is to make it like, a 40k hanging gardens

[arctic talon]

thats cool as hell

[green loom]

I have the main citadel area planned

Which will be more controlled with two big garden towers topped off with orbital guns

And a big castle-esque part that's the main operational hub for them

There's going to be more layers and wayforts etc. around the mountain but those are mostly a precaution and for recreation for the garrison

[arctic talon]

thats neat

[green loom]

I'm going to try sketching it this week, but am quite tied up

I'll have to plan out some suitably imperial designs and stuff to make it look the part too

[rose thorn]

I wonder at what point is a death world consider a death world

What’s the mortality rate required

[green loom]

There is not mortality rate required, if it's so bad it's borderline uninhabitable, it's a death world

Like on Catachan

The population has to burn vegetation around settlements regularly

[charred zenith]

Hi! im sorry if this isnt the right place to ask this question but I felt like it fit in here the best. I am a cosplayer and i'm currently making a zealot cosplay. I am trying to figure out what the text is saying on the left arm but its really hard to read 🥲 anybody who could help me figure this out? or alternativly know what text a zealot would write since i need to write both in a book and the enire right side aswell :>

[summer rover]

i just noticed that this clown on the right chained his lightning claws, which are attached to his arms, to his arms. who decided to add pure stupidium to the templars.

[crimson kayak]

if you can find a pdf/copy of The Imperial Infantryman's Handbook there's a whole section just dedicated to litanies and prayers to the emperor

those should fit

[arctic talon]

They’ve always had that

Any actual black Templar model has had the chained melee weapons

Except most people just use generalist minis

[summer rover]

but lightning claws. which have to be attached to their power armor.

[arctic talon]

Also not always true

Some are weird knuckle dusters

[crimson kayak]

to clubber the enemy with the detached power fist/claw in case it gets cut off

[arctic talon]

With knives

[summer rover]

we can CLEARLY see they're connected to the armor, dude, don't try to cover for GW's terrible ideas with other terrible GW ideas.

[arctic talon]

Some of them literally aren’t

Those ones are

Which is stupid but some of them aren’t

[summer rover]

you're giving me some real black templar vibes RN...

[arctic talon]

It’s just a design thing that every black Templar mini has had since 3e

[arctic talon]

I don’t play marines

And don’t call me a black Templar player because we all know what that stereotype is

[crisp heath]

The chains could just as easily be heraldic

[crimson kayak]

also yeah, that, black templars chained weapons are more symbolical than practical

[rose thorn]

or they swing the swords around like some fucking anime weapon

https://tenor.com/view/whip-chains-attack-fight-me-come-at-me-gif-14674262

[tropic olive]

https://twitter.com/warhammer/status/1665720311499685890?s=20 yo wtf ?

Warhammer Official (@warhammer)

War is coming to Oghram, and you can help to decide the fate of an entire planet! https://t.co/5Na9RIXBtZ #WarhammerCommunity

Likes

908

Retweets

110

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jun 5, 2023, 2:00 PM

[storm jungle]

GW has done this in the past

its nothing new

[arctic talon]

Odds are marines are gona win

Mostly bcs their half of the Levi box is better

From an actual gameplay stance

[scenic bolt]

yea iirc the result was a commemorative primaris lt

from the last time they did this in 8th I think it was

[arctic talon]

This is a dif one

The nid side has way better units overall

but they don't really synergize with each other well

[languid salmon]

the maries will likely win as more people play marines

[arctic talon]

It has to be played with the levi box

so

generally people don't really make up results for this

bcs the last time they did it, it was pretty even

[plush mason]

idk why but that seems kinda counter-intuitive for the nids

[arctic talon]

the big thing is the winged tyranid prime doesn’t have any tyranid warriors to be with

[plush mason]

flying warrior primes are a thing now?

pain

also

awesome

[arctic talon]

Yeah

TLDR the individual units would do great with the units they’re supposed to synergizewith

However the box is all new models

So you can’t actually make use of a chunk of these synergies

[plush mason]

ahhh

[arctic talon]

While the marines also have this issue

The nids have it much worse

[plush mason]

i see

[arctic talon]

Since they have 2 monsters + the tyranid prime

On the other hand the marine box does lack anti armor so

[languid salmon]

bright side the Tyranids seems to have more stuff in the controling the objective game

[arctic talon]

The psi tyrant and the screamer killer get to have fun

[arctic talon]

Yeah that also

Both sides are well balanced imo

But marines eek it out a little

Mostly since the terminator captain has terminators to be with

While the winged hive tyrant is twiddling his thumbs

[plush mason]

so the new box is fairly evenly balanced. those should be some fun matches then

[languid salmon]

the guants can respawn with a comand point though

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

Def

The neurogaunts can stick with the neuro tyrant

The termagaunts are

Just gona be vibing

[languid salmon]

the nerogaunts look so useless they are incredibly cheap

[arctic talon]

Odds are they’re gona be Uber cheap

Seeing as their role seems to be to literally be ablative wounds

[languid salmon]

and slightly more synapse range

[arctic talon]

Yeah

I’m 99% sure they’re gona be cheap as shit lol

Like cheaper them hormagaunts

[languid salmon]

they need to be as cheap as termaguants or less otherwise they just are not worth it

[arctic talon]

They need to be cheaper imo

They’re worse hormagaunts

I do love how weird and fucked up they look tho

[plush mason]

your name reminded me. i rewatched the videos Alfabusa made about Kyrptman and the nids and i got to ask, did the swarm lord really leave the the ultramarine's chapter master looking like Monty Python's dark knight?

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-im-invincible-black-knight-just-a-flesh-wound-your-arms-off-gif-11996860

[storm jungle]

Its less that and more uh

Calgar got emergency evac'd

his entire terminator 1st company sacrificed themselves for it

[arctic talon]

Which is stupid

[languid salmon]

the honor guard force the swarm lord away through force feeding themselves sacrificing themselves to buy time

[plush mason]

i just mean the whole "cut off his limbs" bit

[storm jungle]

I think the wording was more "heavily injured"

[plush mason]

ah

[arctic talon]

Tbf we know he’s missing his arms

His legs are more of a ????

[languid salmon]

he grew them back when he became a primaris marine

[plush mason]

so ether the swarm lord cut his arms off or left them so badly damaged they had to b replaced

[storm jungle]

Under the direction of the nefarious Swarmlord, the swarm was able to adapt to defeat Calgar's tactics as quickly as the Chapter Master developed them. Then suddenly, the Swarmlord bellowed a challenge to the human commander. Leading a bodyguard of Tyrant Guard and Tyranid Warriors, the monstrous Hive Tyrant plunged into the fray.

Seeing their Chapter Master beset, the Ultramarines hastened to their lord's aid, but soon found themselves assailed from an unexpected quarter. Not all of the Hormagaunts on their left flank were lifeless corpses, for some of the creatures had been lying dormant amongst the corpses of their kin, their ravenous instincts suppressed by the Swarmlord's will. As the Swarmlord charged the Master of Macragge, the Hormagaunts were released from their slumber to fall upon the Ultramarines with fury. Though their number was not great enough to do more than delay the Ultramarines, that delay could prove costly. Calgar was laid low, his body rent and torn. Fortunately, his Honour Guard fought before their wounded Chapter Master, their Axes of Ultramar driving the Swarmlord back from the body of their fallen lord.

Too late, the Thunderhawk gunships arrived from the orbiting Battle Barge Octavius, their first pass blasting the swarm back from the ridge to allow three of their number to land amongst the packed bodies of the dead and retrieve survivors. The Honour Guard was only able to get Calgar to safety due to the valiant sacrifice of Brother Aloysius, Commander of the Guard, who held his ground alone against the Swarmlord and his Tyrant Guard. Yet, as Aloysius fell, the Thunderhawks were able to lift off, carrying the few dozen survivors to safety. Because of the Ultramarines' noble sacrifice, Marneus Calgar would live to fight again, but the army of Utramar was no more. The polar fortresses were now on their own.

"His body rent and torn"

[languid salmon]

funnily enough originally Calgar lost his arms fighting a different hivefleet

[plush mason]

yeah not much to go on there

that passage also makes it really hard to guess how long Calgar stood his own

[storm jungle]

its straight from the codex too

[plush mason]

it almost seems like he got folded in seconds

[storm jungle]

Its okay he beat its ass afterwards because Spess Mareens

[plush mason]

ye

[languid salmon]

damn plot armor

[plush mason]

^

[arctic talon]

Swarm lord gets screwed eternally since he can come back from the dead

[plush mason]

makes him a perfect puching bag/messuring stick for the new named space marine character number 1 million something lol

[arctic talon]

He also gets to wipe out random space marine chapter made up for a book

And random space marine chapter that’s mentioned only in the nid codex

[storm jungle]

the "destroyer of civilizations" btw

[languid salmon]

that said the swarmlord always out tactics its foes before it inevitably gets hunted down and killed

[storm jungle]

Im glad it literally never employs any of its abilities

and just becomes a Diet Hive Tyrant

[arctic talon]

The nids haven’t destroyed an entire civilization aside from random unnamed xenos

Planets sure

[storm jungle]

Thats what I mean dingus

[arctic talon]

But anything else 💀

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

Oh

My brain is smooth

[languid salmon]

to be fair when was the last time a hive tyrant did anything of note

[rose thorn]

cant wait for them to get like 5 submissions

[plush mason]

isnt the swarmlord literally just a default non winged hive tyrant with 4 swords?

[rose thorn]

on the subject of nids

whats yoru favorite nid fleet

i havent picked mine yet

[languid salmon]

leviathan

[arctic talon]

The swarm lord won octarius

If that counts

It also beat ghazs ass

[storm jungle]

Its basically suppose to be the "apex" tyranid creature

also like INCREDIBLY smart

its boneswords are also made from a material not indigenous to the milky way

[rose thorn]

also teh swarm lord is technically a sentient creature

[storm jungle]

which can tear through forcefields and shit

[arctic talon]

Mfw it chooses to taunt Dante and gets its face melted

[languid salmon]

oh yeah. I remeber I gave that book to my friend becayse he play orks thinking it would go well with mine only to fined out the orks lose after I gave it to him

[storm jungle]

Lmao

OWNED

[arctic talon]

Tbf they got a cool army

But yeah the orks got fucked lol

The imperium also got tucked

Nid W

Swarm lord sweep

[plush mason]

Kyrptman sitting there like "OH NO"

[arctic talon]

Lol

[rose thorn]

i forgot wasnt there hivefleet that is playing BTD with some fucking planets

for no reason

[arctic talon]

My favorite part of warzone octarius is when the swarm lord ambushed the black Templar crusade and ate the marshal

[rose thorn]

they ahve some weird tower made of flesh

[languid salmon]

it thought its invlun would actually do something

[arctic talon]

And then it did the same thing to the orks

[arctic talon]

Mfw he rolled snake eyes

[plush mason]

https://tenor.com/view/perfection-michael-fassbender-perfectionist-perfect-gif-7910211

[languid salmon]

Tiamet?

[arctic talon]

Bursting through a wall and decapitating your opponent tends to be bad for enemy morale

It also ate their brains

[storm jungle]

My favorite tyranid action has to be when Kraken invaded Craftworld Iyanden

and they awoken the Avatar of Khaine

it invites the hive tyrant to a 1v1

and the Tyrant is like

"Lmao fuck no, kill this loser"

and it just dumps carnifexes on him

[arctic talon]

Lmfao

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

Strategy 100

[rose thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-bob-patrick-star-eating-lots-of-food-gif-13797181

[languid salmon]

aparently they retconed it so that hive tyrant was the swarm lord

[storm jungle]

Yeah thats like a swarmlord tier move

[rose thorn]

nids eating a magma creature

[plush mason]

tfw not even a bug will duel you

[storm jungle]

Yeah its more that they tear it apart since its just molten rocks

but you get the idea

[rose thorn]

lmao thats great

[languid salmon]

the avatare of khaine did manage to take a couple carnefexs out with it

[storm jungle]

Yeee

[arctic talon]

I mean I would hope so

[storm jungle]

like Kraken was going ham on Iyanden, they barely won the battle

2/3 of the craftworld was dead

[arctic talon]

The 3000 carnifex’s of kraken

[storm jungle]

Eldrad tried to warn them too

but they didnt listen

calling him stupid

💀

[arctic talon]

Is this that time the Dark eldar helped iyanden

[storm jungle]

Nah

[arctic talon]

Bcs they liked them suffering

[storm jungle]

its Yriel coming in clutch

thats another incident

[arctic talon]

Ah

[storm jungle]

honestly tho thats sad as shit

"We helped you because you guys are pathetic"

[languid salmon]

the only reason they won was the rest of the fleet got beaten fighting the ultramarines

[plush mason]

correct me if im wrong but that seems to happen to Eldrad a lot

[storm jungle]

Yeah alas

[arctic talon]

I mean yeah

[storm jungle]

nobody literally listens to him

the Gathering Storm incident is the best one

[arctic talon]

He’s also kind of got a reputation

For being an asshole

[storm jungle]

"Would you have us defeat Slaanesh once and for all or just try to kill us because we are xenos?"

[arctic talon]

Death jester letting himself get killed moment

[storm jungle]

AA

[languid salmon]

he is the reason Ghazkhul exists

[arctic talon]

The death jester thought it was hilarious

[storm jungle]

Also the reason Armageddon got invaded

[arctic talon]

That the marine said no

So just led his head get cut off

[storm jungle]

He knew his soul was in safe hands

he did a Warzone maneveur

[plush mason]

so he is like prince imrik of the high elves ina way. seen as a asshole by his race that are literally famous for being assholes

[storm jungle]

Imrik?

nah

Eldrad is literally Elrond

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

its just that uh

his actions are bad but for good reasons

[arctic talon]

Also Eldrad also has sort of a bad reputation bcs the first thing he ever did

Ended up in a horrible defeat

[storm jungle]

yep

[plush mason]

oof

[storm jungle]

hes atm an exile too

[arctic talon]

Except it ended up saving a craftworld

Down the line

[storm jungle]

Yeee

[arctic talon]

He did steal all the bones

[storm jungle]

true 💀

[arctic talon]

Of every craftworlds farseer council

[storm jungle]

to be fair

[arctic talon]

Tfw you want to check on grandpas tomb but you find 25 clowns and a guy in black robes stealing shit

[storm jungle]

if it means defeating super hedonite satan

id do it again

[plush mason]

same

[arctic talon]

Oh it was absolutely justified lol

[storm jungle]

SHAME DEATHWATCH

KINDA FUCKED IT

[arctic talon]

Understatement

Of the century

[storm jungle]

also like

the worst part is

I was around doing that time

[arctic talon]

They led to the great rift

[storm jungle]

Warhammer Community was hyping it up

[arctic talon]

Being opened

[storm jungle]

with like prophecy texts and shit

[arctic talon]

[storm jungle]

then you read it

and its just memes

[languid salmon]

sounds great

[plush mason]

space marines exist in part to ruin cool lore development

[arctic talon]

Tbf

We wouldn’t have gotten the ynnari

[languid salmon]

so we need the nids to win the global event for the good of 40k

[arctic talon]

It’ll be funny

Also I wana see what happens

[storm jungle]

You say that like its a bad thing

[arctic talon]

[storm jungle]

kek

also yeah Nids need to win this

if they dont im gonna fucking kill someone

[languid salmon]

wasn't there books just terrible

[storm jungle]

Yes

[arctic talon]

Yes

[storm jungle]

all 2 of them

3rd one got cancelled

[plush mason]

LOL

[storm jungle]

Poor sales iirc

not even critique

since BL doesnt do that lmao

[arctic talon]

Upside

They are getting rewritten

[languid salmon]

can I volunteer?

[arctic talon]

Downside

We don’t know when

[earnest snow]

Well he is a poopie head. But Lyanden shoulda listened

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

Yeah they paid for it

understatement of the year

again

[plush mason]

https://tenor.com/view/soon-tm-soon-space-gif-23401891

[storm jungle]

also yeah like

Ynnari havent gotten lore since that book series went to shit

[earnest snow]

Tyranids losing again right at the last moment of hope?

[storm jungle]

and them getting Jojo'd by Shalaxi

[earnest snow]

Sorry I didn't read devastation of baal

[storm jungle]

WOW

its like you are psychic!

amazing guess!

YOU ARE COMPLETELY CORRECT

[earnest snow]

I never erad it so

yuh

also not fixing that

[storm jungle]

you never Eldrad it

[arctic talon]

Badumtssssss

[storm jungle]

but yeah the book is good but the victory was very clear

[earnest snow]

Gotta love when a galaxy-wide disaster saves you then a tax man comes to your door step to replenish your numbers like nothing happened

[plush mason]

talk about a troll face

[arctic talon]

But ngl I wana see a total nid victory

[storm jungle]

Same

Octarius was that

but like

[arctic talon]

Fate of Konor was only a partial death guard victory

[storm jungle]

literally nobody remembers it

[earnest snow]

I was enjoying that book until the fucking blood angels got insta-replenished

like god damn

[arctic talon]

Which was the last event they did

[earnest snow]

Ik you like primaris gw but hold the fuck up

a minute

[arctic talon]

Bcs it was a warzone book

[storm jungle]

Yeah like 90% of the book is actually good

[earnest snow]

let em like dwell on the suffering

[arctic talon]

And no one bought it but nid and ork players

[storm jungle]

Lmao

rip

[earnest snow]

Tyranids need to win otherwise I'm going to blame this on fat shark

[arctic talon]

Lol

[storm jungle]

Lmao

[arctic talon]

Do not the shark

[storm jungle]

average r/darktide moment

[languid salmon]

didn't they only win 2 planets out of 6

[arctic talon]

They won Konor itself + the other biggest planet

So it’s pretty much a victory

No one gives a shit about the agri worlds

[plush mason]

thats some Tukaid levels of "victory" if so

[arctic talon]

Marine players can cope

But the Dg blew up a forge world and a mining world

Seems like a W to me

[rose thorn]

Wait- if there’s gonna be a book released based off the planet that the players are deciding

[arctic talon]

It’s just 1 planet this time

And it’s only with the leviathan box

[languid salmon]

except they were supposed to spread disease using a maiden world but they blew it up before anything could happen with it

[arctic talon]

Instead of csm+ death guard vs marines + guard

I consider the forge world blowing up a W

Mostly since

[languid salmon]

and xenos messing around

[arctic talon]

It makes most of the smurfs stuff

[storm jungle]

this is why I like tournament based lore stuff sometimes

it makes the battles and their outcomes surprisingly realistic at times

[languid salmon]

overall it was an imperial victory (a close one but a win none the less).

[arctic talon]

Anyways let the nids win

It’s just 1 planet

[storm jungle]

Really hope they do

[arctic talon]

If marines win I’ll just be sad

[storm jungle]

because 10th edition is suppose to be their time ot shine (before they get dumped into White Dwarf)

[arctic talon]

Lmfao

[storm jungle]

if they start off with a loss im gonna be mad

[arctic talon]

Anyways 50 cents says

The nids are gona partially eat stygies

Mostly since it’s right in the way of the nids

[plush mason]

omg that conflicts me so hard

because i love both factions

[arctic talon]

It’s funny when admech loses

[languid salmon]

now consider if we can get a bunch of people to play the box set and purposelsy play the marines as badly as possible to the nids get the win

[arctic talon]

I say as someone

With 3k points of admech

[plush mason]

it is yes, but it Stygies the only cool admech faction

[arctic talon]

My friend is gona submit a nid win no matter what the actual outcome is lul

Of the game he’s playing

[languid salmon]

truely the hero we need

[plush mason]

^

[arctic talon]

Big meal

[storm jungle]

god the emoji eyes

[vale shuttle]

anything with anti-vehicle will be vicious against knights

[languid salmon]

nice, I'm stealing that

[arctic talon]

Anyways I’m coping for a nid win

[plush mason]

there are psyker knights?

[arctic talon]

Yes

It’s a super mutated chaos knight

Where the pilot has become a sorcerer

[plush mason]

impressive

so now the norn queens have emissaries?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

And they eat custodes for breakfast

[plush mason]

good

what do they look like?

ah its in the coming kit not the current one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSdrRzGtmU8

[earnest snow]

Guys what if the darktide is the tyranids coming to kill all of our characterse :D!?

ofc they use nurgle as a disguise

them genestealers

[plush mason]

the darktide is confirmed to be a catch all name for the foes in the fringe war which are confirmed so far to be heretics and orks

[earnest snow]

Is it? Well then maybe we will get rekt by orks instead of chaos

[plush mason]

the genestealers may also be part of that catch all tho

there is an ogryn line that says they fought GSC

[earnest snow]

Musta been terrifying

Them pink bois be whacky

[rose thorn]

Honestly fighting gsc sounds fucking terrifying to me

A genestealer in a claustrophobic space

[plush mason]

he calls them "purpley" so i guess that means a leviathan GSC

[rose thorn]

Or like, guerrilla warfare tactics

[languid salmon]

Or just the common variant of genestealer that are purple with a black/dark purple carapace

[plush mason]

well he talks about the "human" GSC not the pure breeds

[languid salmon]

They still end up with that coloration

[plush mason]

yeah

[languid salmon]

It would be fun for special effects on a mission to be just a random mob of orks that attacks both sides that you have to deal with though. Same with genestealer cults

[crisp heath]

What exactly are the benefits for pledging to Chaos Undivided versus a single chaos god

[arctic talon]

you get a little bit of everything

instead of a lot of something

[plush mason]

^

[arctic talon]

also sometimes you get a bit of something from a really strong daemon

[plush mason]

its the "jake of all trades" option

[arctic talon]

instead of from an actual chaos god

[plush mason]

is that daemon that rules of the forge of souls part of undivided or has he got his own faction?

[storm jungle]

Vashtorr?

[plush mason]

yeah

[storm jungle]

Its weird

technically undivided but he also has his own aspects

and Vashtorr has been AROUND

like we are talking when Necrons got bio-furnaced all the way to the Dark Age of Tech

all of that shit empowered him

[queen laurel]

Wait doesn't tzeentch also benefit from technology

[plush mason]

yeah he is a daemon of science and technology so he has got to be hella powerful

[storm jungle]

Yeeee

[storm jungle]

Not exactly

tzeentch is about change as a concept

Tech doesnt super go into that

[queen laurel]

advancement of technology then

[storm jungle]

Yeah idk chief

hes dumb

[queen laurel]

Yeah i think the more things changes the more powerful he gets

I think that's the most basic of f****** concept that i can get

[storm jungle]

All fax no printer 👉

[plush mason]

depends on how transformative said advancement is i guess. i doubt a simple improvement to existing tech would effect him all that much

[queen laurel]

I think it's the knowledge that you obtained using the tech

After all he is the chaos god of knowledge and change

[plush mason]

well as is proven both in 40k and irl, some tech advancements degrade over all knowledge and understanding

[queen laurel]

Eh tzeentch is more confusing than Blightown

[plush mason]

ofc

[crisp heath]

Iirc Vashtorr is more about creativity. He's fueled by the energy of making something new, he's as much artistic expression as he is tech, but making a Greater Daemon of Crayons is less cool

[queen laurel]

I think there's really no point trying to f****** understand him because i'm pretty sure he doesn't even understand him self

[storm jungle]

He does tho is the thing

The domains of the chaos gods are so broad and vague that they're almost meaningless. You could twist almost any chaos character to follow any god with very little effort.

[crisp heath]

If you want to use the fantasy materials as valid to Tzeentch, it's better to think of him as a Christian style big G "God". He's unknowable, but knows himself. He's a lot more "hypercosmic" than the other Chaos Gods, and that's what made him originally the most powerful.

[plush mason]

i dont remember hearing about that. iirc he is a daemon of cold hard logic. like he literally says exactly what he means all the time and uses that to trick daemons into signing contracts they can never get out of

[crisp heath]

The Tzeentch that exists now is basically the nerfed version of big G

[storm jungle]

Fundamentally, Tzeentch represents a very different kind of discovery. It's not just the element of secrecy (arcane lore, intrigues, etc.) - it's the fact that he's about sorcery, which is usually positioned as the opposite of technology.

In a fantastical setting, there's some overlap between science and magic because they both involve discoveries and they both lead to change. But this is a bit like saying that Khorne and Slaanesh should be the same god because killing as many people as possible is a form of excess.

but either way like i said about its meaningless at the end of the day

[plush mason]

yeah

[crisp heath]

Vashtorr is the Soul Forge King, a daemonic demigod of unrestrained invention and abominable artifice.

That's from his product listing on the site

[storm jungle]

I wouldnt really trust that

its just a site thing

the arks books get a lot more into it