40k-lore-chat

[sleek wigeon]

pretty solid backup all around

[gloomy citrus]

Sometimes it's better to have a more practical chapter to back you up.

Instead of a chapter that will banzai into the enemy.

[sleek wigeon]

sometimes
nobody would scoff at ultramarine or imp fists backup though

[gloomy citrus]

Especially the Fists.

[sleek wigeon]

those and salamanders are the ones you're most likely to come home from

maybe go with, in the case of fists

[dense mortar]

I guess at the end of the day, if my brain is about to be flayed by aliens, a drop pod is a drop pod; regardless who exits it

[near wasp]

No

[sleek wigeon]

true
if I'm about to get maimed by a weapon that violates the geneva convention in 100 different ways, doesn't really matter who's coming down

[near wasp]

It only gets worse if its the emperors children

[sleek wigeon]

if the drop pods are pink
just get commissared

or self commissar

wait that would be a hilarious prank

tzeench, if you're listening, get an agent of yours into some chapter ships and paint their drop pods pink

[dense mortar]

Ok, in what world would the Imperium send a drop pod of Chaos Marines to help?

[near wasp]

Who said it was the imperium sending the pods

[dense mortar]

Well, me in my initial question and scenario.

[near wasp]

Ah wait didnt read up far enough

[shadow plover]

if no one said yet it's a Screamer Killer

[dense mortar]

How much of a Space Marines drive is service to the emperor, and how much is earning glory and respect of your peers.

[celest dome]

Would depend on the individual, no broad answer can really be given here

[rose thorn]

Belakor fucking over Vash makes me wanna repair my Belakor

Imma rebuild him and print my missing pieces lol

[arctic talon]

BY THE DARK GODS ITS BELAKOR WITH THR STEEL CHAIR

[rose thorn]

YEAH

Belakor is like Pert but even better

I mean

Even worse

In a good way

||OH FUCK YEAH LUTHER 100% porbably escaped, with that shitty retreat, if it was rushed there is definitely a good change Luther hopped on one of the ships||

[queen laurel]

Ok so the lion is back now what

I wonder what the impact is going to be at the setting

[brisk beacon]

cant wait till gulliy and him meet up

[dense mortar]

I just really wish there was some solid animation series out for Warhammer. It seems like gold.

They made some not-so-bad Starship Troopers animated movies, which were genuinely not awful

[crimson kayak]

ah but you see little guy, the problem is not that there's no good warhammer animators

the problem is that GW deploy's kill squads if you even get an inch near one of their copyrights

thing is, if it gets in the situation you explained, where no standard imperial tactic is working, you probably already sent your biggest toys avariable

[dense mortar]

Does the imperium employ tactical retreat strategies? Or is it a "die on your sword" type thing

[crimson kayak]

well, that isn't true after iron within got out lol

[crimson kayak]

depends

some do, some don't

[gloomy citrus]

It was dark.

[crimson kayak]

and also remember that you wouldn't really notice the spikes until after they landed

as gravis marines deployed from sub-orbit are already described as confused from space debris falling from the battle above

so a drop pod would follow suit in that description

[crystal forum]

you have to keep in mind that most (but certainly not all) imperial tacticians view human lives as expendable resources. In real life, if a nation's generals were to expend tens of thousands of lives just to gain a strategic hill then the civilian population would go insane. In the imperium, that's just part of daily life.

Space marines view themselves as much more valuable which is why they very rarely conduct normal infantry operations. In the soul drinker book for example it's stated that there's just 2 kinds of tactics they use: shock assault and last stands where everybody is already expected to die

[dense mortar]

The Red Army challenges your assertion 😛 But yea I get it. I was just kind of wondering the function and utility Space Marines are used for. Or do they just kind of decide what they want to do themselves?

[crystal forum]

space marine are strike forces. they're basically how modern special forces are used in hit and run attacks

space marines havent formed real front lines since the days of the great crusade

plus chapters are severely limited in numbers compared to before

[urban spire]

General Castor: Merrick, a Guardsman's life is to die. My job has always been to send them to places where they can die. I'm not afraid to spend them, but I never waste them.

[crystal forum]

there's also the issue that space marines aren't part of the imperium's military structure

so it's not like a general will have space marines at his disposal unless he pulled a lot of favors

they kinda just do whatever they want in a sense

[dense mortar]

I have brought this issue up before. But that is a massive waste of imperium potential. Not having a unified command and control of your most lethal force, is silly

All space marin chapters should be disbanned, and rolled up under imperium control

[crystal forum]

yes that's kind of the point, at least that's how i see it

the imperium would be massively overpowered if it worked efficiently

can you imagine how boring campaign books would be if there wasn't so much inefficiency

everybody likes it when a wrench is thrown into the machine

[dense mortar]

Well yeah thats true

[signal bramble]

They generally decide how they want to do things and highly value their independence. There are a few chapters that are assigned specific areas but for the most part they respond to distress calls.

It’s become more centralized in the indomitus crusade with plenty of chapters attached to imperial forces but they usually decide how they’ll do things.

[astral whale]

Imma say this.

I will accept no other answer

[crystal forum]

just imagine the siege of vraks except the dark angels actually served a useful purpose. it would be over in a week

[signal bramble]

There is a battle group in a recent novel that has space marines under the command of the fleet master. They did as he asked to without question or issue.

[astral whale]

The only reason Lion looks so old…
He’s spent the last 10,000 years drinking Mjød, and is emerging with a massive fucking hangover

[signal bramble]

Also the splitting of the chapters is exactly what Guilliman wanted.

You can argue it’s inefficient but he really didn’t want anyone having control over legions of space marines again.

Also, at this point if they tried it would cause a civil war.

[dense mortar]

So let me ask this. Say we are at DEFCON 5. Chaos Marines are storming the Golden Throne. Terra is being overrun. Is there not a imperial 'red alert' where all Space Marines return to Terra to fight?

[crystal forum]

the splitting happened so games workshop could sell more space marines :KEKW_organ:

[signal bramble]

There is not.

[dense mortar]

But in all likelihood, they would on their own accord?

[signal bramble]

40k does not have reliable intergalactic communication.

[dense mortar]

Humor me

[signal bramble]

Or reliable quick space travel.

[crystal forum]

i mean most if not all chapters would instantly go help terra but out of their own free will

[odd palm]

The Horus Heresy has burned a collective memory into the human psyche, complete and efficient military centralisation will result in humanities downfall

[astral whale]

Quick is relative.

[celest dome]

I mean if the CSM are running amok inside the Golden Palace they wont ask the SM for help, they'll use the Custodes and the IG they have on planet

[astral whale]

In terms of system to system yes it is incredibly fast. Sector to Sector no.

[odd palm]

They’d likely have a couple Fists and Minotaurs on hand

[astral whale]

The Tau have unironically the slowest space travel.

[signal bramble]

He is asking for all space marines to rush back to Terra. By the time they got the message and got there the conflict would probably be over.

[crystal forum]

space marines were never really integrated with the astra militarum even before the heresy though no?

[astral whale]

Who is asking)

[crystal forum]

they worked closely but they were not the same organization

[signal bramble]

Zerokewl.

[signal bramble]

They weren’t called Astra Militarum then. They were the imperial army.

[odd palm]

The Imperial Army were below the Legions in many cases, at least from the glimpses we see prior to the heresy

[astral whale]

Tbh I still find it bullshit that the Custodes alone can’t defend Terra.

[signal bramble]

And they included ground and fleet elements.

[crystal forum]

god damn it man i always get that wrong

like mechanicus vs mechanicum

[signal bramble]

Even they can’t be everywhere at once. There’s a bit too much special elite forces in 40k anyway. But we not talking about that right now.

[astral whale]

Like. Custodes + Imperial Navy + Sisters of Silence without the Imperial Fists Garrison vs. Daemon Incursion during 13th Black Crusade is bullshit.

Gulliman always swings in to save the day and it’s just bullshit to give the goddrier primarch impeccable timing.

[odd palm]

The 10,000 are to small a number to defend a whole planet of trillions

[signal bramble]

Besides the imperium being absolutely massive and stretched thin is hilarious as they manage to be both the most numerous military but always outnumbered. It’s a bit silly.

[crystal forum]

horus did have a ton of guardsmen with his crusade fleet though. it's a weird synergy they had

[astral whale]

You’re telling me that THE EMPEROR’s 10,000 plus the Terra Garrison, cannot defend the most heavily defended planet in the Imperium?

[crystal forum]

nothing is impenetrable

just look at cadia

[astral whale]

That is where you are wrong. The planet itself broke before the guard did.

[crystal forum]

it still broke

[astral whale]

Abbadon was losing.

[astral whale]

By that same logic the Black Legion was breaking.

[odd palm]

With the Guardsmen too? Yeah they can, but that depends entirely on the quality of the guardsmen. Whether they are well trained or simply ceremonial.

As you need bodies to hold the line for Custodes counter attacks

[astral whale]

Bruh. They are on TERRA. Sure, there are ceremonial regiments but you can bet they’re going to be drilled by the Fists and the Custodes.

[sturdy ledge]

Y’all seen the news about what was just announced today?

[crystal forum]

i just see the custodes as very disciplined but not very battle experienced

[odd palm]

The Lucifer Blacks for example became a shadow of their former glory

[sturdy ledge]

Lion El’Johnson is back

[crystal forum]

did he grab the milk and go back to sleep

[signal bramble]

It’s made clear that the regiments that guard Terra are highly trained.

The Lucifer black and palatine guard.

And there are apparently several others including the inquisition storm troopers and countless others.

[astral whale]

That is where you are wrong. They spend 100% of their time training, learning and honing their abilities. A lore accurate Custodes is equal to an entire squad of any other faction.

[astral whale]

Exactly.

[green loom]

Training doesn't perfectly equate to battle experience

Though that might be what the blood games and such are for

[astral whale]

They literally unleash captured Xenos within the Imperial Palace to fight.

[crystal forum]

wait wtf lion is actually back

i thought this was a joke

[odd palm]

Nah, he's back

[astral whale]

Also need I remind you that most of them are the same Custodes that fought during the Great Crusade?

[crystal forum]

is the horus heresy finally ending

[odd palm]

Well the Siege of Terra series is almost over

So yeah, unless they opt for a great scouring series

[crystal forum]

damn an actual new chapter in 40k i can't believe it

[signal bramble]

He is and he is apparently acting as a hunter of the most dangerous creatures in the imperium nihilus. Also in the last arks book they said there is going to be a duel between him and Angron with a definitive winner.

As pictured above.

[winter aurora]

That duel is gonna be amazing tho

[storm jungle]

I mean

Lion is gonna win

[signal bramble]

Yep and Angron will be back in 2~ months. Lewl.

[storm jungle]

Kek yep

[zenith sinew]

I wish they'd publish the lore parts of the books separately from the TT supplement bit

[astral whale]

He was never gone.

He had a bit of a nap.

[winter aurora]

its so cool to finally have another primarch come back

[odd palm]

GW is not brave enough to have the Lion lose the duel but win the war against Angron with tactics and strategy. that would be to much

[astral whale]

Again he was never gone lol. Just lazy writing on GW’s part.

[crystal forum]

finally they're being pulled out of plot stasis

[winter aurora]

well yea

he can finally get out there now tho

[crystal forum]

"i will now go die in the warp"
that's like 4 primarchs

[astral whale]

True. I personally want to see the scene where he confronts his sons on what the fuck a Primaris is and what happened to his Legion.

[crystal forum]

i hope he finally teaches them to not be secretive assholes

[astral whale]

Okay.

I actually want to write a fanfic where Trazyn dumps Clonegrim on the Iron Hands when they’re getting fucked by the Emperor’s Children.

Like. Imagine Clonegrim bodying Daemon Fulgrim in a duel right in front of the Iron Hands before telling the Iron Warriors that their Father’s Soul is still alive and can probably be saved by Yvraine.

[crystal forum]

if he's so old now does that mean dorn is now the wise grand dad we've always wanted

[near wasp]

The mutton chops must live

[astral whale]

I swear to fuck they better not rip off TTS.

That is the Based Canon.

[urban spire]

kin are apparently slower

[crystal forum]

wouldn't it be funny if instead of lion they brought back ferrus manus or something

[astral whale]

The Kin don’t leave their dominion, do they?

[urban spire]

they do, in expeditions

[crystal forum]

btw are space dwarves back now

[signal bramble]

They are brutal capitalists and they constantly hunt for resources and will take them.

[signal bramble]

Yep and Fulgrim is next.

[celest dome]

Yes, those are the Kin they are talking about

[crystal forum]

i hate games workshop's marketable species names

[astral whale]

Wait how tho... They're capitalists but they're clones?

...

[winter aurora]

oh that'll be sick

[astral whale]

Like

[crystal forum]

is there any books on the space dwarves

[signal bramble]

They have entire ships that literally eat planets to harvest resources.

[astral whale]

IMO the new lore lacks flare.

like

there are no stakes

[signal bramble]

Just the Votann codex.

[urban spire]

kin lore is pretty shallow at the moment

[astral whale]

What lore? Have you seen the DarkStar Weapons?

[urban spire]

and they feel disconnected from the rest of the setting

[crystal forum]

guess i now have another book on my reading list

[crystal forum]

rock and stone!

[signal bramble]

They Votann will generally try to negotiate for resources they need and if that fails they’ll take it by force. If they’re able to take it from you it means you weren’t strong enough and didn’t deserve those resources in the first place. About as capitalist/Darwinist as you can get.

[astral whale]

A Capitalist society doesn't make sense for that though. How would they have a capitalist society when all of them are literally clones. There is no point in having currency.

[urban spire]

dwarvinist

[signal bramble]

It’s about the acquisition of resources at any cost. Not many.

[crystal forum]

do they drink space beer though

[signal bramble]

Resources used to to make their weapons and armor.

[signal bramble]

Also yes.

That’s a highly respected art per their codex.

[astral whale]

That's not Capitalism then. Capitalism is the aquisition of resources to meet market demand.

[urban spire]

they aren't perfect clones of each other, and the cloning process is handled by ancient AI treated with religious reverence

[crystal forum]

that's it my first models will be space dwarves

[astral whale]

Even the Orks have a better understanding of Capitalism/

[urban spire]

aren't they also organized into coops, are am i misremembering?

[signal bramble]

Actually no. There is a word I’m looking for.

[astral whale]

Idk. I'd like to see them be Empiricists/Kantists.

A parody of the mechanicus.

[urban spire]

ah no, it's guilds

not coops

with guildmasters and everything

[astral whale]

It's GW.

"Guild" is more of a marketing term than anything because you can't copyright "Guild"

[crystal forum]

wouldn't that make them generic AF

[signal bramble]

Not quite. They are relentless pursuing profit. Profit in this case meaning get more resources than the other leagues.

Each league of dwarves is actively trying to get more resources and stuff than everyone else.

They use these resources to produce better weapons and armor which makes them better at getting more resources and stuff.

And that is their driving goal.

[astral whale]

Idk.

[urban spire]

a league and a guild aren't the same organization

guilds are largely civilian organizations

[astral whale]

I'd like to see this culture delved into.
Perhaps they need more and more resources because their AI is growing less and less efficient.

[crystal forum]

i dont like the AI and cloning aspects

[urban spire]

a league is something like a very solidified military alliance devoted to the protection and furthering the goals of a votann, their ancient AI

[crystal forum]

those feel unecessary

[astral whale]

I like the AI. I don't like the cloning. Like. What prevents them from doing things the old fashioned way?

[urban spire]

their AI are growing less efficient, but they aren't using more resources, they are just getting shittier as a result

i don't think they have the biology to do things the old fashioned way

[signal bramble]

It’s not actually been confirmed if they can reproduce the normal way or not.

[urban spire]

actually

considering squat enclaves exist in the imperium, they must be able

[astral whale]

"It's average size, I don't know what ye talking bout" ~ Some Kynsman

[urban spire]

otherwise they'd only have lasted one generation

[crystal forum]

idk it makes them sound like slaves to their leader like everybody else in the imperium. it's like GW can't possibly think of adding a species that are a little independent minded but still slaves to a system like how dwarves could just be slaves to getting more profit

[signal bramble]

The Votann AI are depicted as more benevolent than ruthless.

[signal bramble]

It’s a dystopia so I’m not surprised.

[crystal forum]

still would have been interesting if they were completely guided by greed like how dwarves usually are depicted

[urban spire]

the votann are more spiritual leaders and advisors than direct leaders, the kin themselves have a LOT of factions

[astral whale]

idk. It's not profit though. They aren't using these resources to improve their own lives.

[urban spire]

the guilds have representatives on their government for example

[astral whale]

Idk.

[signal bramble]

They are though.

Having the best equipment, armor, and arms available isn’t such a bad deal.

And they use the resources to make space beer and so on.

You also get the sense that (with the cloning aspect) each dwarf is created for a purpose and a role that they seem to have creative freedom in how they go about it.

[astral whale]

I would like to see the Kin as a more economic/diplomatic faction.

Perhaps both heavily economically invested in both Human and Tau economies whilst using their vast resources (gained through their own mining efforts and their pervasive investments) to build their defenses.

[signal bramble]

Your job is to make weapons, go crazy and make the best weapons you can.

[crystal forum]

you can still make a dystopia in a ultra capitalist system. just think of the jopall indentured squadrons

[signal bramble]

They aren’t above trading my dude.

If it would be more efficient to strike a deal they will.

[urban spire]

if you want capitalist dystopia just look at america

[signal bramble]

They gave the tau their ion tech after all.

[crystal forum]

idk these space dwarves just have the same vibe as the tau. main character syndrome

[urban spire]

they have a lot of potential, they need more depth

[crystal forum]

true

[signal bramble]

Everything about them is based on resource profitability and what’s most efficient. That means taking things by force isn’t viable or feasible.

There’s definitely room for nuance there.

[astral whale]

Nono, I mean that the Leagues should be salvagers, investors, mercenaries, etc.

Like. We don't need them to be this grand army on the galactic stage but another actor that is rarley noticed but always recognized.

Until that is... someone pisses them off. Then the Kyn remind everyone that they shouldn't be fucked with.

[crystal forum]

i can see lots of different fragments of their species that believe in different things

maybe GW giving itself room for lore

[signal bramble]

They are that.

They’re salvagers and miners, they cut deals, they work as mercenaries.

[astral whale]

OOh.

[crystal forum]

does humanity hate the dwarves?

[astral whale]

So the Imperium lets them go through and salvage drifting hulls of spacecraft? Are they sanctioned in the Imperium?

[signal bramble]

The imperium see them as Abhumans.

[astral whale]

I mean.

[signal bramble]

So opinions are mixed.

[crystal forum]

sanctioned?

[astral whale]

Exactly.

[astral whale]

Yes.

[urban spire]

the imperium views squats as abhumans, meaning lesser than mainline humans but still a stable strain and not totally worthy of extermination

kin*

[crystal forum]

oh ok that can lead to a lot of fun stories

[urban spire]

the imperium calls them squats

they call themselves kin

they are space dwarves

[signal bramble]

I don’t think so.

For salvaging I mean.

But the imperium can’t monitor every shipwreck and piece of space at all times.

[urban spire]

the imperium has not had much contact with the leagues of votann

almost none, in fact

[crystal forum]

i think the problem with the tau is how separate they are from the imperium so it's like they're in their own world

[urban spire]

this is hopefully going to change soon

[astral whale]

I know, but I'm talking like contract labor though. Of course they're going to take what the Imperium doesn't need to know about.

[signal bramble]

Hard to say what deals are struck.

[crystal forum]

would be fun to see squats mentioned here and there in stories.

[urban spire]

right now the lore is really limited

[signal bramble]

The dwarves make deals and barter so it’s plausible that they will make arrangements.

And imperial officials are not above being bribed.

[crystal forum]

imagine a dwarf trying to bribe an inquisitor not knowing who they are

[astral whale]

Like a Planetary or Sector governor could just contract the Kyn to go salvage a wreck. The Imperium gets some money/resources for salvaging rights.
The Kyn get access to the valuable technology and scrap aboard.
It's a win/win.

[signal bramble]

Right.

Absolutely plausible.

Based on what we know.

[crystal forum]

does the mechanicus hate them

it feels like they'd be hella jealous

[signal bramble]

They hate the Admech.

A lot.

[urban spire]

@astral whale this is pretty much it right now

[astral whale]

The Mechanicus don't know. They Fear the fuck out of the admech.

[signal bramble]

The dwarves hate the Admech and consider them inferior.

The Admech hoard the knowledge and don’t use them while the kyn use their knowledge to make cool shit and get even better stuff.

So as a result they consider the Admech stupid and inefficient.

[astral whale]

Nah, they fear the fuck out of them because of what would happen if the Admech found out about the Ancestor Cores.

[signal bramble]

That’s not what I got from the codex.

They don’t want their AI being found out about, you’re right about that.

But they don’t seem afraid of the Admech as a general rule.

[astral whale]

Here is the thing.

[urban spire]

i don't think the admech have the power to launch a crusade to wipe out the votann if they did find out

[crystal forum]

the AI leaders sounds like a ticking time bomb for the species to be declared traitorous

[astral whale]

The Admech is a whole lot larger, a whole lot scarier, and as you mentioned, comically stupid.
Imagine a stupid, idiotic god.

That is utterly terrifying.

[signal bramble]

Bruh the codex says they literally view the Admech as stupid and inefficient.

Idk what to tell you.

[astral whale]

Gork and Mork are already this and without one another they would absolutley body the chaos gods.

[signal bramble]

Admittedly I’m at work so I can’t get the excerpt right now.

But it does say that.

[urban spire]

the admech KNOW the tau use AI, and they haven't started doggedly exterminating them yet

[signal bramble]

Trust not the machine that thinks.

[astral whale]

Logically this makes sense tho. You can't tell me I'm wrong that the Mechanicus, far outweigh the Kyn in terms of strength and in territory.

[signal bramble]

Wait until they hear about chat gpt.

[signal bramble]

I have to go with the codex on this one.

[astral whale]

Literally the only piece of lore that exists for the Kyn? The book sold to hype them up?

[signal bramble]

It’s as definitive a lore source as you can get as of the current time.

[astral whale]

I've got to go with the logical conclusion on this. I am not biased at all towards my homeboys of the omnissiah.

[crystal forum]

yeah but when do they ever do anything like a crusade by themselves unless it involves gaining tech

[urban spire]

it's that or baseless speculation

[signal bramble]

If something contradicts it without a lore source I have to disregard it.

[astral whale]

Ever seen a galactic map?

Whole lotta forge worlds.

not a lot of Kyn worlds.

[urban spire]

they literally aren't listed

[crystal forum]

forge worlds arent a hive mind

[astral whale]

You guys are missing my point.

[crystal forum]

a lot of them wouldn't want to waste tech to kill a species

[astral whale]

Mechanicus BIG. SPREAD OUT.
Kyn. Tiny.
Galactic core is only so large.

[storm jungle]

They aren’t only on the galactic core tho

Hombrew says they can be anywhere

[astral whale]

The ancestor cores are though?

[urban spire]

the galactic core is so dense with stars that the concept of night does not exist

[storm jungle]

Again, doesn’t really matter. You can have your core be anywhere

[storm jungle]

Also this

Like lore isn’t really a “101 this is absolute” when it comes to faction placements on a map

Unless you are just talking about planets.

[astral whale]

Tbh tho.

why haven't we seen Dyson Spheres in 40k?

[storm jungle]

We have

[astral whale]

Like

[astral whale]

Where?

[storm jungle]

The Outsider c’tan is literally in one

[crystal forum]

i could swear there's one somewhere in lore

[signal bramble]

Did you know that in the Votann codex among their territory is a planet called New Catachan?

[urban spire]

a dyson sphere is an impractically large megastructure

[signal bramble]

I really want to know what the hell that’s all about.

[astral whale]

What happened to Old Catachan?

[gloomy citrus]

Seems fitting for 40k.

[signal bramble]

It had a chaos invasion but it got sorted out.

[astral whale]

Bruh. The fucking Craftworlds would like to talk to you.

[signal bramble]

The catachans destroyed a warp incursion from nurgle and Khorne.

[crystal forum]

i was going to agree but have you seen mars's orbital platforms

[signal bramble]

Only took a few days.

[astral whale]

Port Maw exists.

[urban spire]

just a ringworld, a single band of matter about the width of planet earth, encircling an entire star, is already way bigger than anything ever built by mankind in 40k

a dyson sphere is many orders of magnitude bigger than that

[astral whale]

Port Maw.

[crystal forum]

i think dyson spheres just dont fit in 40k tbh

[signal bramble]

Oh yeah and it was during indomitus as well so it was a new warp incursion technically.

[urban spire]

port maw was built by xenos

[astral whale]

That would be perfect for the Kyn tbh. Unlimited resources.

[urban spire]

and also it's only the size of a planet

a planet is tiny and insignificant compared to a ringworld

and again, a dyson sphere is orders of magnitude bigger than a ringworld

[crystal forum]

it's not really their vibe though no? they're dwarves, they want to mine rocks and stuff

[astral whale]

With what? They need electricity to fuel their mining tools.

[crystal forum]

i honestly think in 40k most electrical sources are just hand waved and you assume they're present

[astral whale]

Nah. Everything has a power supply.

[crystal forum]

like how the magical lasgun magazines work

[urban spire]

the only civilizations that could feasibly build megastructures on that scale are millions of years dead

[astral whale]

Those mags are power packs. They can be machine charged or solar charged.

[near wasp]

Trayzen would like a word

[arctic talon]

Necrons have the capability to build Dyson spheres

[astral whale]

You could practically plug a lasgun power pack into a wall and wait for it to charge.

[arctic talon]

They shoved a C’tan into one

[urban spire]

and they are millions of years dead

[astral whale]

The Eldar still exist.

[urban spire]

exactly

[arctic talon]

The Necrons are still around

And they’re waking back up

[near wasp]

The necrons still exist

[crystal forum]

they can literally be charged by heat itself. that's like multiple rules of thermodynamics broken

[arctic talon]

So disagree on that

[urban spire]

yes, and the civilization that created the eldar MIGHT have been able to build on that scale

[arctic talon]

The Necrons still hold the capabilities to build their tech

[urban spire]

alright so to clarify

the necrons being dead

is a pun

[astral whale]

Wait what the fuck? That seems like a grimderp moment. You mean to tell me sticking the power pack in the microwave is a preferred method? /s

[arctic talon]

[urban spire]

their civilization is a "dead" civilization

[arctic talon]

You can stick them in a fire place

[urban spire]

because they are dead

[arctic talon]

To recharge them

[crystal forum]

it's also pretty fair to assume that most megastructures built during the golden age have become dust

[urban spire]

"dead"

do you get it

[arctic talon]

Yes

[arctic talon]

A few are still around

But they aren’t Dyson sphere sized

[urban spire]

mars is a pretty respectable megastructure on its own

[near wasp]

Phallax is one of those mega structures

[astral whale]

The Dhrukari?

[urban spire]

it's got that orbital elysium, what do they call it again?

[astral whale]

Bruh. They literally have suns in Commoragh.

You're telling me they can't create a dyson sphere?

[crystal forum]

idk man i just see it as a way to not think about what would ordinarily add too many restrictions to a story. you just assume energy is coming from somewhere unless the plot demands it being a problem

[arctic talon]

The Ring of Iron

There's also the Telsterax on the Iron Hands homeworld

[urban spire]

which is in the webway, which was not built by the eldar, but by their precursors

[arctic talon]

which was a "sister" construct

Garia has the Garian crown which is different

and Metallica was covered in metal

[crystal forum]

and again i think dyson spheres would be too high tech for 40k

[astral whale]

Commoragh didn't have a sun in it when the Dhrukari first took over, if Vect is to be believed.

[arctic talon]

tbf Commoragh has had several suns

dragged into it

there's like 3 we know of

[urban spire]

stealing a sun into an impossible warp space is not the same as building a dyson sphere

[arctic talon]

^

that also

[arctic talon]

It fits some factions

but not humanity

Eldar are a post scarcity society

they don't need it

Necrons have at least 2 we know of

[urban spire]

eldar have a couple of scarcities

[astral whale]

They have guns that shoot black holes. I think they can make a functional dyson sphere assuming that Commoragh isn't destroyed by putting a literal SUN into it.

[urban spire]

souls

gods

[arctic talon]

lol

[crystal forum]

would they be able to defend an entire star all the time though?

[arctic talon]

no

and they don't need it

they don't lack energy

as a resource

[near wasp]

They just want it

[arctic talon]

the Dark Eldar dragged the suns into comorrogh for sunlight

not for energy

[astral whale]

We're talking about capability to build one. Not the practicality of it.

If they wanted to they could totally build one.

[arctic talon]

Capability to build one the necrons have it

[urban spire]

even if they did hypothetically have the technology (which i don't think they do), they don't have the infrastructure

[arctic talon]

and we know they have it

[astral whale]

THEY LITERALLY DO.

[urban spire]

to build a dyson sphere? or are you arguing that commorragh is a dyson sphere?

[astral whale]

They have the technology and capability to build one. They don't need one though.

[crystal forum]

necrons do seem like they'd have a use for a massive energy source

fits their theme

[arctic talon]

Ironicially trazyn’s Dyson sphere is pretty much just used as a big planet

The actual energy that’s harvested is used for something

[astral whale]

His collection?

[arctic talon]

It has its own power source

[urban spire]

if you took every eldar space ship (dark and otherwise) ever built, and every eldar spaceship that ever was built and got destroyed, and piled them all together into one gargantuan space hulk, it still wouldn't be enough matter to build a dyson sphere, and i say this with absolute confidence

[arctic talon]

For some reason

[crystal forum]

they'd honestly just do it for the fact that they're draining an entire star's energy

[arctic talon]

Lol

Prolly

[urban spire]

the sheer amount of stuff you need to build a dyson sphere is so completely beyond insane

[near wasp]

The dark elder prolly stole those suns to watch the races they doomed suffer into extinction

[crystal forum]

you could make a pretty relatively small one on a brown or white dwarf

[urban spire]

yeah i guess

[astral whale]

They have the technology to move the mass of a star my guy.

[urban spire]

i guess so

i am not a guy

[near wasp]

Also humanity had sun snuffers

[urban spire]

moving stuff is a lot easier than building stuff

[astral whale]

Resources aren't a problem when you can LITERALLY move objects of that size. There is even precedent for this when they captured an entire planet.
Capture enough resources into commoragh and that isn't an issue. Building it isn't an issue either as we've established with them, they have MORE than enough tech to get the job done.

[crystal forum]

i think dyson spheres are just too mundanely sci fi to be some sort of archeotech that you can randomly find

[astral whale]

It would be as simple as making a design, assembling the parts, assembling the structure, and using the same technology they used to move the star to keep the thing from shaking itself apart.

@urban spire You're underestimating how much it takes to stop the momentum of something like a star.

[crystal forum]

archeotech usually has to have a sense of mystery and magic to it

dyson spheres are just... idk, basic

[urban spire]

a star is just a big mass, it has no special properties that make it more or less difficult to move than say a gas giant

other than being on fire i mean

[near wasp]

Stars have inertia

[urban spire]

most things do

[astral whale]

Newton's laws still dictate "An object in motion will remain in motion".

[urban spire]

true of literally every object yes

[astral whale]

Meaning in order to stop one you will need to apply one massive force. TBH this technology could be used to end entire planets

If you stop the earth, instantaneously.

Every manmade structure, every creature, everything would be flung.

[urban spire]

i am aware

i am familiar with very basic physics

[near wasp]

Id be far easier to biuld something around a star than to move it

[astral whale]

How can you still deny the fact that the Dhrukari have the capability to build one. I'm not saying they should or need to but they COULD if they wanted to.

[urban spire]

it would have to be structurally stable, in addition to requiring more mass than anything

[astral whale]

When you can move planets mass is not a problem.

[near wasp]

And mass is easy to obtain from asteroid fields

[astral whale]

When you can move stars, stability shouldn't be an issue.

[dense mortar]

Are Dark Angels likely to purge anyone with even a hint of abhuman? Regardless if they actually are or not

[urban spire]

if they had the material science to build something on that scale to be structurally stable and not have the bits not at the equator constantly break off and fall into the star, they could make their spaceships out of that stuff, sail them into the warp and kill slaanesh with them by ramming him to death

[astral whale]

The fact that the entirety of Commoragh doesn't fall into the star proves that they have this tech.

And they have 3.

[urban spire]

it is built inside of a pre-existing structure that was not built by them

[near wasp]

They still moved the stars

[astral whale]

THE STARS WERENT THERE

[urban spire]

whatever, this is a pointless argument

[astral whale]

YOURE TELLING ME THE ARCHITECTS OF COMMORAGH had the foresight to say "Hmm. we should reinforce these structures in case ya know we want to move A SUN in here."

[jovial glacier]

Hey you watch tts?

You can never be too sure

[urban spire]

they built a galaxy-spanning superstructure inside of the warp, it does not surprise me that it can stand up to a sun or three

[astral whale]

The old ones built the webway. The Aeldar built commoragh.

[near wasp]

Then why couldnt they biuld a dyson sphere

[crimson kayak]

Remember guys that wraithbone is magical bullshit property wise

[urban spire]

the old ones could have, i don't know, doesn't look like they did

[urban spire]

and where did they build commoragh?

[crimson kayak]

Also are we really arguing physics when the necrons have a map where they can blow stars up remotely?

[urban spire]

i hate that map

anyway the necrons DO have a dyson sphere, don't they?

[near wasp]

If you biuld a house on bedrock that doesnt stop you from destoring it by ripping it apart

[crimson kayak]

And when hadron in game says a bridge defies 7 laws of physics or something

[urban spire]

i hope we get some more otherworldly locations

the meat tree is neat and all

[astral whale]

You just won't admit it when you're wrong, will you?

The Aeldari structures still held up to being subjected to the gravity of a sun. They managed to not only capture, but STOP a sun.
They managed to do this not only once, but thrice.
They managed to capture an entire planet.

[urban spire]

i just want some more

[astral whale]

Sorry @crimson kayak wrong person.

[crimson kayak]

Lol no problem

[urban spire]

doing all that in the magical dimension where physics need not apply is not the same as doing it in realspace

[crimson kayak]

Btw didn't Eldar also manage to will worlds into existence?

[astral whale]

Physics do apply in the Webway.

It is a plane between the Material plane and the warp.

@urban spire Just admit they have the capability to build one. If anything the Webway assists in their ability to do so. Not detracts.

[urban spire]

i disagree

[astral whale]

Okay. It's okay to be wrong.

[crimson kayak]

The sun's of commoragh are in a sub-realm above it

[urban spire]

i am under no obligation to admit to something i don't agree with, especially in a setting which isn't real

[astral whale]

They still have to stop their momentum.

or figure some other workaround.

[crimson kayak]

Eldar magic I guess

[near wasp]

Or move a webway gate to the sun

[crimson kayak]

That's how they brought the sun's to begin with

Like, you have to start with the logistics of moving a sun

[astral whale]

Exactly.

If they have that capability they can make a dyson sphere.

simple as.

[crimson kayak]

And even then it was at the height of Eldar power, so that means they probably can't make whatever stuff that is anymore

Just like 90% of pre-human stuff

[near wasp]

The necrons can def still make dyson sphere though thats all i care about

[crimson kayak]

Oh that's for sure

[astral whale]

According to Vect, the suns didn't exist in Commoragh until after the fall of the Aeldari.

[urban spire]

yeah necrons can do it, at least once they get enough stuff online

[crimson kayak]

Yes, and when was vect a reliable source of information?

[astral whale]

Granted, unreliable narrator.

[near wasp]

Amazon primes a wounderful thing

[crimson kayak]

The same guy that said he built commoragh

[astral whale]

Why would he lie about the suns of Commoragh though? There literally is no benefit to him to lie about such a thing when you listen to what he was actually talking about.

[urban spire]

tell you what though this discussion has really made me want to play stellaris

[near wasp]

Ive never played it

[urban spire]

it's got dyson spheres

[astral whale]

Based

[urban spire]

agreed

[astral whale]

(also based you play Stellaris)

[crimson kayak]

Dunno, but that would mean that commoragh before had another power source, wich would have had to equal the stolen sun's

So that would create another bullshit device or something

[astral whale]

still proves my point they have the capability.

[crimson kayak]

Probably more of an had than have

[astral whale]

I still say have considering they did it thrice.

[urban spire]

anyway

[astral whale]

If they really wanted to they could capture more suns.

Do they need to? No.

[urban spire]

if i were the dark eldar and i had a non-euclidean city that i could trap stars in

[crimson kayak]

Oh, that probsbly they could

[urban spire]

i wouldn't bother cancelling the momentum of the star, i would simply put the star in a tesseract

so it could sail through as much space as it wanted without going anywhere

[crimson kayak]

It's more like a compressed bunch of different realms connected through portals and shit than a city anyway

[astral whale]

That would make building a dyson sphere easier though.

Just built a little ring around the tesseract.

[urban spire]

ok

when you say

"build a ring around the tesseract"

are you referring to a ring, or a hyperring

[crimson kayak]

Anyhow, if we have to go by war in heaven lore, where the two sides where basically at the same tech level, we could consider that the Eldar empire could make anything the necron can

Maybe even more as they were old ones assisted

[astral whale]

either or, tbh.
Anything at this point. There is no way that they do not have the technology to get some simulacrum or workaround for a dyson ring if not a proper one.

[urban spire]

the war in heaven wasn't eldar vs necrons, it was old ones vs. necrons, with eldar as a quirky little bioweapon the old ones made that ended up not working out

[near wasp]

Enslavers go brrrrr

[crimson kayak]

Yes, but that means Eldar had old one tech and knowledge

Or Atleast on some similar level

As they had to compete against necrons who were old one level

[urban spire]

they did when they were part of the greater old one civilization, after the old ones were wiped out the eldar had more of a rough go of things

and then the fall happened and things got even worse

[near wasp]

The elder dominated the galaxy for 60 million years

If you call that rough idk, things didnt get bad for them until the fall

[urban spire]

fair

rough compared to the old ones who MADE gods

[near wasp]

And even then its mentioned the dark elder still have much of there tech from there golden age

Also the elder also made gods. Notibly isha, knaine, ceggorgh, and slanessh

[crystal forum]

elves ruining everything for everybody but in space this time

[astral whale]

That’s generally the rule in Fantasy.

the elves fuck everything up for everybody.

[near wasp]

Outside of the enslaver plaugue the space elves had it pretty good

[astral whale]

Worked for Tolkien.

[near wasp]

I need to intentionally write my dnd world to make sure the elves didnt fuck everything up

[crystal forum]

he really did dwarves dirty

[astral whale]

Nah. He did Dwarven Women right.

Based.

[crystal forum]

you know the world is fucked when fantasy alcoholic short people obsessed with mining seem cool

i wish i was that happy with the simple things

[urban spire]

eldar are the tool the old ones made to make gods

the eldar can't help but make gods

they were made to make gods

hell they recently made another one

you'd think they'd put a lid on it after what happened the last time, but here they go again

[dense mortar]

You could argue the men fucked everything up in Tolkien

RIP Numenor

[celest dome]

The best Dwarf biology was by Prachet

[urban spire]

Pratchett

Terry Pratchett remains the best fantasy author

[dense mortar]

Terrys dwarves are essentially a homage to Tolkiens. They are cool though

[celest dome]

Thank you

[celest dome]

But they don't have the same biology system

[dense mortar]

Thats fine

Dont need the same parts to be an homage

[dense mortar]

Two questions

Is Russ still alive. And will he return with the tree of life to bring the Emperor back?

[green loom]

He's not dead

And dunno

[dense mortar]

Its my belief, through commune with the spirits, that he will return with what he set out to find.

And on that glorious day, All Father shall rise from his long slumber. Blessing upon us.

[crisp heath]

I mean they've been implying the Emperor is waking up, but he has bigger problems than being dead

Like, there's a bomb under his chair that will destroy the palace if he stands up, there's millions of daemons under the bomb that will get out if he stands up, and also it would turn off the Imperium's nightlight

[dense mortar]

Couldnt he probably take the Daemons

[near wasp]

Maybe maybe not

The talisman of 7 hammers can permakill daemons. Also if it blows up itll take all of terra down

The talisman is the name of the bomb btw

The big e would likely need magnus to stop the tides of daemons and light the astronomicon

[crystal forum]

sometimes you wonder why humanity even bothers with earth since it's so full of things that can instantly end the imperium

[near wasp]

Because its the only way ships can navigate the warp

[crystal forum]

im sure they could just move the emperor

[near wasp]

They cant

[crystal forum]

then move the entire palace

[urban spire]

is that actually confirmed or is it just a solid "probably"?

[green loom]

It's more that we know he was alive when he left, and we haven't heard that he died

[near wasp]

The palace is the size of a continent

[urban spire]

that's not true, it's just harder without the empra's big glowing dome

[near wasp]

Blind jumping in the warp is super recklass

[urban spire]

it's not the same as a blind jump without a navigator

[near wasp]

And warp travel is already shoddy at best

[urban spire]

anyway all you need is a big psychic beacon, it doesn't have to be the emperor

frankly using the emperor strikes me as a bit irresponsible

[near wasp]

And where would they get that

[urban spire]

i'm sure cawl could whip something up

[green loom]

Mephiston iirc has something like that going on

He's about the strongest imperial psyker currently alive

[urban spire]

the votann cores also act as beacons

[green loom]

Tbf that more or less only happened because he got gigasmacked on the Vengeful Spirit

[urban spire]

it'd be really cool and fun if they just let terra explode

nobody likes it there anyway

[near wasp]

And let god die?

Thats heresy

[urban spire]

god can't die, that's heresy

[near wasp]

Also try and turn off the chair and the custodes will turn you into a bag of soiled meat

[urban spire]

why would they soil my perfectly good meat?

[near wasp]

I think youll do that yourself when you see a group of 9 ft tall demigods charging you in a full sprint

[urban spire]

speak for yourself that sounds hot

[near wasp]

I dont even know how to respond to this

[urban spire]

you don't want to be beaten up by giant golden half naked men?

[gloomy citrus]

They're wearing full armor.

[near wasp]

I mean im not gay but i wouldnt say no if a custodes told me to oil there holy abs

[gloomy citrus]

They have spent 10 millenia in the Palace on Terra.

[urban spire]

i've seen emperor's tts, i know this is propaganda

[pale onyx]

Hey guys so with gulliman and now da lion back who know the big E pre heresy as just an extremely powerful psyker. Y’all think they’ll eventually see him as a god? I mean he does godlike shit since heresy. He makes his own daemons, spanked Nurgle and set his garden on fire. Plus they know belief gives chaos gods power so if trillions are worshipping the big E it would also explain his new power/ascend to godhood. And since the galaxy was torn in half and chaos energy rising a shit ton birthing new psykers and making the big E even more powerful to the point where he’s conscious now like when he saved gulliman. If he is not a god what is

[near wasp]

Godblight basically spells out that the emperor is a god but gman doesnt see him as a god worthy of worship

[pale onyx]

But he sees him as a god then?

[near wasp]

Yeah he has a talk with cawl inferior about the big e using him as a puppet to burn the garden

[pale onyx]

Who is cawl? The priest tagging around with gulliman who wants to suck him off?

[near wasp]

Thats matheiu

Cawl is the guy who made the primaris marines and helped ressurect gman

[pale onyx]

Ohhh yeah Martian lad, friend of the emperor right

What he have to say about that whole biz

[near wasp]

Ill paraphase there convo a bit give me a moment

[pale onyx]

Alright

[near wasp]

Gman: I fear he may be moving
Cawl: who
G:the emperor cease toying with me
C:why fear?
G:do you beleive the emperor is a god
C:i see why fear. Many sects of the mechanius veiw the emperor as the third of the machine god that walks a material plane.
G: i asked you what you believe not think
C:i have no response
G: Do you think he can be brought back like i was
C:i have a single warning to give with this line of thinking. Gods are blights on existance. Thoughts lead to action even if we do not intend them too. What went into the throneroom may not be what comes out.

The actual convo is way better i admitted alot of detail because i didnt wanna type an entire page

[fierce rose]

so does anyone else think that Lion'el Jonson looks hot as fuck now that he's gotten old

or is that just me

[near wasp]

@pale onyx does that help a bit

[urban spire]

can someone link whatever video or whatever shows lionel coming back?

[near wasp]

https://youtu.be/BV3r6oZb2wI

[crisp heath]

I hate old Lion

If I buy him, he's wearing a helmet

[undone zodiac]

Inb 4 someone kitbashes him into leo whitefang

[fierce rose]

he aged like fine fucking wine

[crisp heath]

He doesn't even look vaguely like Leo tho

[fierce rose]

from Guilty Gear?

[crisp heath]

Like you'd need to pull off his mustache, make his hair longer, unrecede the hairline, get him into modern clothes...

It'd be a task

[undone zodiac]

Yes a task indeed

But would be cool one

[crimson kayak]

If I remember right he should come with an helmet

[fierce rose]

two helmet variations and a hood

[crisp heath]

Yeah he has 4 heads

[crimson kayak]

Now I was thinking about the stupid costly idea of making an alpha legion killteam out of kitbashes of the alpharius model

[versed ledge]

So the planet in "Day of Ascension" was lost to the nid...right?

[pale onyx]

Yeah thanks!

[rose thorn]

can someone explain to me like, The lion's ideology? like why the fuck does he do such dumbs hit

likE, i dont understnad is it a survival of the fittest thing?

[green loom]

He's effectively like Tarzan if he had to hunt hulking mutated magic monsters

And was found and civilized by knights

[rose thorn]

i read the luther book

which i fucking lvoed

i get all that

i just dont under stand him

[vale shuttle]

what don't you understand

[dusk patrol]

“Loyalty is its own reward.” Is probably his biggest thing

[rose thorn]

ah

[dusk patrol]

He despises people needing affirmation to do their damn job

Not someone who doles out a lot of praise

For him, the traitors aren’t just traitors, and he doesn’t just hate them

He’s disgusted by them

He’s contemptuous towards their existence.

[echo vault]

With the lion well and truly back, what conclusion do you wish to see with the fallen?

[silver hawk]

Either redeemed or executed in full, however the fallen are a big part of the dark angels lore (at least now) so it could also be left where it is now and be relatively ok

[undone zodiac]

I doubt there would be conclusion

[torpid narwhal]

How were the custodians made

[snow fern]

Mum Everest

[vale shuttle]

first they find a potential applicant. this typically comes from the noble families of Terra. during the Unification Wars Big E liked to use the kids of conquered nations. the applicant has to be an infant iirc.

then they do all sorts of gene alchemy and modification. the custodian is rebuilt on the genetic level. if you're being inducted before big E got slain he'll oversee this personally. if after, it's done by family lines of genetic chemists who know the process by rote recitation of their superiors scaling back to the era back when he was alive. the custodian is given enhanced - uh - everything, as well as being made unable to question or rebel against the Emperor. on a genetic level. yeeeaaaahhhh...

anyway they're trained as they grow up i believe and eventually become a full on custodian. they are single mindedly devoted to big E, a peerless warrior and an imposing figure. the entire process is absolutely insanely ridiculously expensive, custodians may be the single most inefficient combat unit in the Imperium from a cost to effectiveness ratio. many inductees die before they find one that works. their armour costs more than entire planets. their weapons take decades or centuries to make. it's a lot.

if you're asking how the custodians were made in general the answer is "big E is a very smart lad and figured it out because he needed friends who wouldn't abandon him after all his other friends did."

[torpid narwhal]

Are they still being made

[vale shuttle]

yes

im fairly sure there no custodians from the Great Crusade era, cause when a custodian's reaction time slows by like, .2 of a second, they retire and become Eyes of the Emperor.

they're basically spies and informants for the Talons of the Emperor.

[open pumice]

Custodes?

Rad this is like

my expertise

[open pumice]

we don't knwo either way, but we do know there are some that are atleast 5000 years old and older

it is not impossible that there are crusade era custodians

[vale shuttle]

there's obviously enough wiggle room to have them in!!

[open pumice]

yes, and their creation has amped up do to their involvement in the indomitus crusade

[vale shuttle]

all it takes is for, when you're writing up your army, to say "these guys are from the Great Crusade cause they're just so great / train so hard / whatever else"

[open pumice]

anyway they're trained as they grow up i believe and eventually become a full on custodian. they are single mindedly devoted to big E, a peerless warrior and an imposing figure. the entire process is absolutely insanely ridiculously expensive, custodians may be the single most inefficient combat unit in the Imperium from a cost to effectiveness ratio. many inductees die before they find one that works. their armour costs more than entire planets. their weapons take decades or centuries to make. it's a lot.

this is largely correct, although I would say their inefficient cost to efficiency wise, any more so than anything else in the imperium

They are trained as they grow up, but they don't stop training once they become custodians, they are constantly honing their skills

some interesting notes about custodes training

[vale shuttle]

sorry i dont understand what you mean by although I would say their inefficiency cost to efficiency wise, any more so than anything else in the imperium

[open pumice]

they are no less efficient than anytheing else in the imperium

save many like

leman russ'

their job isn't conquering worlds

so you can't measure them by like
oh how many of them vs space marines would it take to conquer a planet
they are designed to protect the emperor, which as we see in the great crusade
they do very well

it's a bit like saying that the secret service should be abolished because they aren't good at proactive anti terrorism

or the US Army rangers should be abolished because unliek the FBI they aren't equipped to deal with homeland threats

your measuring them against something that is distinctly not their purpose

so like

yes

if you want to conquer a world

send someone who isn't custodes

but if you need a hallway defended

there is no one better

[vale shuttle]

now that they're roaming out of the palace for ✨ reasons ✨ i think it's a fairly decent point to make. the custodians are grossly inefficient when you could instead send literally anyone else and pound for pound they'd be cheaper.

however they are 100% the best at defending the palace because when you have 10K of the bastards on call, you could obliterate anything that manages to get there!!

[open pumice]

their presence in the indomitus crusade is actually kinda interesting

they are less focused on fighting the enemies of the emperor themselves

and more focused on leading

which was kinda what they were built to do

[vale shuttle]

hmmm, i guess the custodians would make any imperial cream their pants and be a massive benefit for morale

[open pumice]

i mean more leading from a tactic sense, but that too

[vale shuttle]

oh

lmao

[open pumice]

i mean

it's not wrong

if I was jo blo imperial and I saw the emperor's golden guardians i'd start instantly cumming

[vale shuttle]

i just immmediately think of custodian's unique benefits being a morale thing since they're like, super-angels for bobby imperial

and not tactics since tactics in 40k is ultimately boiled down to "bro this guy he's so good at tactics bro look at his awesome encirclement bro"

[open pumice]

but they tend to orchestrate portions of the crusade, and take to the field kinda like primarchs taking to the field only when their direct attention is needed

[open pumice]

yeah we kinda have to take the writers word for it

as most writers aren't military history buffs

and wouldn't know good tactics if it hit them in the balls

[vale shuttle]

i think the writers are always gonna stumble when it comes to making anyone "superhuman at this thingy" and that's always gonna be acute for like the custodians

[open pumice]

especially less tangible concepts like

tactics

dan abnett did a good job in know no fear

[vale shuttle]

since they say shit like "custodians are master philosophers" when the custodians are literally incapable of doing some of the most basic philosophy at all

[open pumice]

with the theoretical/practical thing

[vale shuttle]

i need to read that at some point

or listen to it, probably, lmao

[open pumice]

would recomend

[crisp heath]

Writers need to learn that the key to writing characters smarter than themselves is to work something out from every angle for hours or even weeks, then have your smart guy figure it out in a matter of minutes

The alternative is you get a "smart" character who ponders something all day and comes to a conclusion most readers reached in minutes

Or the mystery novel approach, where you have the solution first and then sprinkle hints at it throughout the story for the character to solve

[signal bramble]

I just finished the Helbrecht novel and it mostly amounts to "THE EMPEROR WILL SHOW ME THE WAY!" and when something bad happens "THE EMPEROR IS TESTING US!" and when they try to come up with a solution is "THE EMPEROR WILL GUIDE US!"

It's meant to show their zealousness but it was comical at times.

[crisp heath]

I mean that's what passes as high iq in the imperium

[signal bramble]

And when something lucky happens they literally say "the emperor works in mysterious ways."

https://tenor.com/view/face-palm-gif-20569409

[crisp heath]

Tbf I've written worse

Like my favorite "I thought it would be badass until I read it" moment

Where I wrote the phrase "there is no overkill, only kill"

[signal bramble]

Now I'm reading the 15 hours novel, perfect as I'm starting to get back in to painting with AM.

[crisp heath]

I'm torn between picking up new nids or a blood bowl team

[signal bramble]

Nids.

Bloodbowl means forge world.

And that's an oof.

Shame the BB3 game ended up being so bad, I was curious about it.

[versed ledge]

Warhammer foot ball...

Never played it was it any good?

[reef kite]

thank you

[vale shuttle]

honestly 40k writers really suffer from the fact that fucking everyone is meant to be "so awesome transhumanly smart and brilliant"

like now you have to write a bunch of space marines doing some form of epic tactical moves, and then write the space marine captains doing even better, and then write the custodes doing even better, and then write the primarchs doing even better

idk it's a bit silly

[open pumice]

40k in a nutshell

[vale shuttle]

make 40k silly again

[open pumice]

it's still silly tbh

it's just taking itself seriously enough to like

write novels

and not need a fucked political state in england to be relavent globally

[summer rover]

yeah, it's only silly by accident now. i want the stupid fun to be the point again.

[astral whale]

Easy. Give them equally smart opponents so their tactically brilliant moves look dumb.

I mean it’s not like real life militaries make incompetent decisions.
Coughs in T-14 Armata using the Tiger P engine which is still unreliable as shit

[coarse mirage]

So it looks like Tyranids are getting something new?

[arctic talon]

They've been chosen for the big refresh

so yes

[coarse mirage]

About time

[arctic talon]

Eldar are still crying

[coarse mirage]

A pity there's no new game that lets me play something else than boring Astartes

[arctic talon]

with their fucking second edition models lol

[coarse mirage]

What did they get with the Ynnari?

[arctic talon]

only HQ units

lmao

they did get a more recent refresh

with Dark Reapers, Maugen Ra, Rangers, Shround Runners, Autarch, Avatar of Khaine and Guardians

that might sound like a lot

but eldar still have pewter models

[coarse mirage]

The internet tells me Nids got a new codex in 2022?

[arctic talon]

Every faction has gotten a new codex every edition since 7e

before sometimes GW just wouldn't release a codex for several editions

pre 7e

[coarse mirage]

Any juicy new lore?

For the nids

[arctic talon]

Yeah

they killed all the Orks in Octarius lmao

And broke the quarrantine

Also hive fleet tiamats massive tower

has grown bigger

[coarse mirage]

Nom nom gif

[arctic talon]

and now covers the whole planet

a few marines + inqusition forces went to go check it out

[coarse mirage]

They're gonna beam 5G to the galaxy

[arctic talon]

a psykers brain instantly exploded

also

in 10e

hive fleet leviathan

has another tendril

larger then all previous ones

enter the galaxy

Thats why its hive fleet leviathan yet again for all the promo art and such

TLDR the funny bugs are going to try to eat the galaxy again

[coarse mirage]

Is there anywhere I could uhm, read it all? Without spending all the money on an entire codex that I don't use

[arctic talon]

Uhhhh 🏴‍☠️

[vale shuttle]

the new codex isn't out yet so i suspect you'll struggle to find it

[coarse mirage]

9th edition I mean

This is 10th coming, right?

[arctic talon]

10th is coming prolly

[uneven temple]

summer

[arctic talon]

But we’re gona get index’s first

For every faction

For free

[vale shuttle]

you could browse the wikis for Tyranid stuff or you could go to less scrupulous means. lore youtubers and podcasts can be hit or miss but they're generally free so that's another option

[coarse mirage]

Can't find squat

[coarse mirage]

Did you read this out of the codex?

[arctic talon]

Like

The octarius stuff?

[coarse mirage]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

or the new splinter fleet of Leviathan

The octarius stuff

is from Warzone Octarius

The new fleet of leviathan

was in the 10e stream

from adepticon

[vale shuttle]

if you want the bleeding edge 10e lore you'll have to wait until the edition releases probably

[coarse mirage]

[vale shuttle]

sorry to be the bearer of bad news :(

but 10e really isn't that far away, and when it does come out there'll be a tonne of content about it so im sure you can get your fix then

[coarse mirage]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

[tawdry escarp]

The Lion has returned!

[odd palm]

He has returned and he's coming to beat up Angron

With Big E's shield, that or it's just named the Emperor's Shield

[gloomy citrus]

The Orks might beat him to that.

[odd palm]

Perhaps

[gloomy citrus]

I never saw him with a shield, just the flaming sword.

[odd palm]

But also the Lion is a space marine and thus gets first dibs at the dinner table

[gloomy citrus]

Primarchs are not space marines.

[odd palm]

Well transhuman, they used to be tho but that was before 40k was really 40k XD

[odd palm]

Same, but his shield is apparently named such

[gloomy citrus]

Maybe he just made it.

[arctic talon]

Its his weird ass tiny shield

on his chestplate

[odd palm]

True, or maybe it's one of those pieces of primarch wargear that show up long after we're used to a certain loadout

[arctic talon]

its his tilting shield

lmao

its the same emblem

[odd palm]

lmao

Ah, that shield

[odd palm]

Huh, Emperor beeeeg

[vale shuttle]

there's no way the emperor is that big he'd have to be like 30 feet tall for that scaling to work

it's probably just some psychic resizing of the shield or whatever

[arctic talon]

Its prolly been resized

[vale shuttle]

since it seems like all of the relics in 40K can do that

[arctic talon]

the Emperor is huge

[odd palm]

Someone got the shield stretcher out I guess

[arctic talon]

if we take this art

as his actual size

[upbeat dagger]

when did big e nuke nurgle? i heard something about it

[vale shuttle]

some really quick math makes me estimate the emperor being 27ish feet tall if that shield is his title shield with no scaling

[arctic talon]

Dark Imperium books

and he didn't nuke Nurgle

he just burned part of his garden

[upbeat dagger]

part of big e waking up right

supposedly

[vale shuttle]

the emperor would be two storeys tall if he was that big

[odd palm]

So mean, well growing it back gives nurgle something to do I suppose

[arctic talon]

we'll get an actual mini for him eventually

hopefuly in scale

[vale shuttle]

i know 40K has a height fetish but that's just silly

[arctic talon]

so we can use that for scale

tbh

[vale shuttle]

god no please don't

[arctic talon]

Its for horus heresy

[vale shuttle]

if James Workshop does that ill be so pissed

[arctic talon]

we literally have Horus ascended already

and The emperor has rules

[vale shuttle]

really?

[arctic talon]

Yes

he literally has them for horus heresy

there's a lot of rules for things in horus heresy

that don't have minis

like Khan on a bike lmao

[vale shuttle]

cant seem to find said rules

[arctic talon]

They're in Liber imperium custodes

wait nvm he doesn't have rules

he's mentioned in the army buildiing portion

as a mandatory warlord if chosen

[shadow plover]

Only reason I'd wish there were an Emperor mini is that I wouldn't have to see the bad 3rd party models of him, other than that I don't really wish to see him as a mini

[orchid thicket]

I was expecting long, flowing locks for the Lion

though the grizzled grandmaster aesthetic is nice too

[crisp heath]

I love the inclusion of the two headed bald eagle on this one

[dense mortar]

I got a 13 hour flight coming up. Think I can get through Thousand Sons in one shot?

[crimson kayak]

Speedrun the reading

[crimson kayak]

I mean why thought? It's not like the "public" face of the emperor wasn't known

And we already got the sword model too thanks to guilliboy reborn

[vale shuttle]

Big E being a model isn't that bad. i just don't want a datasheet. it would feel wrong

[crimson kayak]

Eh, he got mortally wounded by an existing character with a model so I guess we are fine

Not like the datasheets ever made sense with the lore anyway

Anyhow, now that the lion is back I would love some updated deathwing companions in 40k

These models were reaaaally noice

[vale shuttle]

true and correct

[vale shuttle]

damn i actually like a space marine model that's rare

[crimson kayak]

Yeah, artificer armor dark angels do capture that "space knight" and "emperor's angel of death" vibe quite well

[vale shuttle]

they look very cool

for a second i thought they were Sisters of Battle

[crisp heath]

Listen if you can play Grey knights you should be able to play their primarch, I am not wrong

[vale shuttle]

||Magnus is already available||

[crimson kayak]

So considering how they started from Knights Errant... Everyone?

[crisp heath]

They had their Gene seed removed and swapped after becoming Grey Knights

[crimson kayak]

jokes be like

[vale shuttle]

did they really?

[crisp heath]

I lost my humor after the lobotomy

[crimson kayak]

Yep, along with a bunch of other shit

[crisp heath]

They're Emps gene-sons yeah

[crimson kayak]

Oh didn't know you went through with the servitor procedure

[vale shuttle]

jeez the Imperium really is all about just throwing away resources

[crisp heath]

Grey Knights see traitor geneseed as a flaw, Carcharodons see it as an opportunity

[crimson kayak]

Also notice how with grey knight and primaris there's a scary pattern of "humans are being better at genetic Manipulation than the immortal golden demigod who's living since the start of time basically"

[vale shuttle]

big E getting upstaged by a bunch of stinky mortals

if he was alive he'd be very upset

[crisp heath]

I like to think that the Emperor just is really bad at bio-engineering because it's something you have to learn and he doesn't want to study

If it's not hardwired into his DNA he doesn't want to know it

[crimson kayak]

Lol, so he literally was that guy from the perpetual group project

[vale shuttle]

see i like to think that bio-engineering is one of the only things he is good at

[crisp heath]

Yeah this

[vale shuttle]

and that he's awful at like, everything else and basically relies on his OP BS god powers to get everything else done

[crimson kayak]

Tbf, I would do that too if I became a reality-warper level entity

[vale shuttle]

yeah but the thing is when you're removed from the picture all your work would immediately crumble because you're not there to keep reality-warping

which happened when he fucked off from the great crusade

and then again when he got gooned by horus

he was so used to being like "YOU OBEY ME NOW." and having everyone else say "yes daddy" that the moment he was taken out of the picture and no longer there to enforce his own primacy it just collapsed

cause the emperor was never a brilliant philosopher, a beloved leader, a wonderful human. he was a bully.

oops i did a little rant

[crimson kayak]

Lol

Imo it feels like he's pulling an Mcu thanos, before he tried delegating his operations, now he's trying to reach godhood so he could go "fine, I'll do it myself"

[crisp heath]

Can you imagine being Erda and following around the man you love for thousands of years and then he's just like "wanna make some babies? Yes? Good! Specifically 21, or 18, depending on who's counting. Sex? Never heard of it, let me get a blood sample. What? No, you can't raise them, if they see a woman they'll turn gay. Hey, why don't you go very far away from me for like, a long time or something?"

[vale shuttle]

LMAO

see that's basically the emperor i imagine. a man so utterly detached from everyone except for his best fascist buddy malcador and all the child soldiers he made genetically unable to disagree with that he literally cannot fathom making a genuine human connection

[crisp heath]

So with the Horus Heresy, BL like refused to give Emps a consistent character and he treaded the line between being a detached asshole with almost no emotion and almost a real person

The take I prefer is that for most of his life, he was the old lore Emperor who had a lot of feelings and cared about his sons and had all these human things he did, including having normally produced biological children with women he cared about

But then the unification wars happened and then the great crusade and oops! God is traumatized!

Cue the descent into emotionless train wreck

[vale shuttle]

remember that around this time is also when big E got abandoned by all the perpetuals iirc

and when he started making the custodes cause he needed a group of friends who would never ever not in a million billion years leave him

i really like your interpretation.

another one i enjoy is that the reason the emperor is so inconsistent is that he is always willing to say or do whatever he thinks would give him the best results in that situation. so he's a detached asshole when he thinks there's nothing to gain cause that's who he normally is, and he's more personable when he's actively manipulating someone

[crimson kayak]

Tbf having to play God behind the scenes for up till the unification wars, and then as center-stage for everything forward, it's gonna put pressure on you no matter how bullshit your power set is

God damn it bot

[crisp heath]

Then again one of my favorite short stories is The Table is Set, which a lot of people like and a lot of people dislike, but I interpret it as if the Emperor is remembering when he cared about others, but fully committed to his new approach of heartless manipulation and victory at any cost, including sacrificing his sons and tormenting his only friend to prove a point