40k-lore-chat

[open pumice]

Besides theyre not actually all that bad tbh

People just cant separate the fact that 40k is a satirical setting, so grim derp isnt a bug. Its a feature

[celest dome]

There is actually a difference between Spartan in Halo and SM.
Spartan are Warrior made but apart for very few of them they don't have unexplainable feats. And the book and even the game do show other people being cool much more often than 40k does.

[open pumice]

If you want less stories about space marines, stop buying them

So many of them are made because they sell like hotcakes

And require fairly little effort on the writers part to achieve good profits

[celest dome]

Never bought SM, but SM are the one that have been shown in the front of the setting since before I was born

[open pumice]

This isnt a problem with soace marines its a problem with the favt that 40k is for profit, and thus the writers write books based on what makes the dough

[celest dome]

Way too late now

[open pumice]

Theyve been the face of thr settibg since they were on the cover of the 1986 first eddition copy of rogue trader: warhammer 40000

(Which is 40k 1st ed)

[dense mortar]

Im not gonna lie. . . . and please dont judge me or contact you local inquisitor. . . but Slannesh is kinda hot. She has a whole thing going on.

[open pumice]

Yeah id smash

[dense mortar]

Yeah. The kind of lady youd like to bring home to meet grandma. Granted, she may morally corrupt and twist her mind

[celest dome]

I prefer Slaanesh's mom, she has got it goin' on (Isha)

[storm jungle]

• Tau

• Eldar

people got bland tastes, they wont run out of it any time soon

[gloomy citrus]

More specifically, Yvraine.

[storm jungle]

Poor girl got reduced to a waifu joke

[arctic talon]

💀

[storm jungle]

As usual if she was a man none of this would happen

sad times

[gloomy citrus]

If she was a man, Rowboat Girlyman would use the Flaming Sword in its intended purpose.

[crimson kayak]

Sadly considering the sheer amount of retcons, two canon things contradicting each other and unknown/not detailed stuff anything is possible.

[storm jungle]

40k doesnt have that many retcons tbh

Its like what

3-4

[crimson kayak]

I mean small stuff too

[storm jungle]

I mean kind of

Its basically just been like

3 books

and the Indomitus timeline

[open pumice]

40k has had a dair amount of retcons over the years

[urban spire]

this game doesn't have space marines my thude

and it wouldn't work WITH space marines

[open pumice]

Sure

[storm jungle]

Playing a marine in Darktide is basically playing the Ogryn

[open pumice]

Not every 40k story needs them

[storm jungle]

you just would use more weapons

[open pumice]

I never said they did

[storm jungle]

and thats kind of it

[open pumice]

Darktide could also very easily be a non-40k property and not much would change

[gloomy citrus]

Can Ogryns use bolters?

[storm jungle]

Yes

they can use anything honestly

[urban spire]

no the 40k setting does a lot for darktide

[gloomy citrus]

Nice.

[storm jungle]

Its more like

they got their "default" weapons ala tabletop

and the lore says they are too dumb to use anything else

when books show ogryns can get smart and learn

[storm jungle]

Also no lmao

[open pumice]

Although admittedly it wouldnt be the same feel wise

[storm jungle]

like it would not match at all

[urban spire]

the lore is unnecessarily unkind to ogryn

[open pumice]

And unlike necromunda it benefits from bring a 40k property

[urban spire]

what do you mean unlike necromunda lmao

[crimson kayak]

Ogryn with zealot speed/abilities be like

[storm jungle]

None of the plot would really make sense to begin with if it wasnt a 40k property either.

[urban spire]

necromunda is an ancient 40k property

[storm jungle]

Also that lmao

[open pumice]

Necromunda the new game

[gloomy citrus]

The lore is unkind to everything and everyone.

[open pumice]

Hired gun i think?

[storm jungle]

Ogryns are basically dumb people exploited to aid a fascist regime so thats on point

They arent executed because they are useful

[crimson kayak]

I mean, 90% of warhammer games are shit either way so

[open pumice]

Hired gun was bad and could just as easily have been a nondescript scifi setting tbh

[celest dome]

Darktide in another fantasy seeting wouldn't make as much sense as no other Sci Fi has a predominance of melee combat and horde armies

[open pumice]

Fair

[urban spire]

the people who made hired gun actually made a totally not 40k game before they got permission to use the 40k property. EYE divine cybermancy is janky as shit but it's visually very cool, the studio has a talent for that kind of thing, and WITH the 40k IP they made one of the best depictions of the sheer scale of a hive city i've ever seen

[open pumice]

Ill conceed my point was stupid

[celest dome]

VT2 could be put in pretty much any Fantasy setting (Just has to switch adapt things)

[storm jungle]

Lmao yeah thats a better example

EYE was literally inspired by 40k

and makes about as much sense

aka none

Anyway fuller-auto

[crimson kayak]

I reckon it manages to make even less

[storm jungle]

Agreed

[urban spire]

the fuller auto gun fucks

[storm jungle]

Im just here to shoot re-skinned half life NPCs

[open pumice]

Prolly

[urban spire]

love to use it with the wrist gyro

[open pumice]

Though alot would have to be adapted

[gloomy citrus]

Hey, ever heard of "Shootas, Blood and Teef?"

[urban spire]

admirable

[open pumice]

@urban spire to the point i was trying to make
40k doeant need space marines in every story, that doeant meen their not an integrel part of the setting

[storm jungle]

They really arent honestly

[crimson kayak]

Fun, but clearly needed more cooking

[storm jungle]

Marines just stuck because they have been around since forever

[urban spire]

they weren't even this over the top in earlier editions

[storm jungle]

the Guard could just be the face of the setting if the GW lads at the time around Rogue Trader just wanted to ditch Marines for something else

[urban spire]

hell 1st edition even had female space marines

[storm jungle]

Lets not get into that

[gloomy citrus]

[storm jungle]

people will scream

[crimson kayak]

Man, imagine if warhammer ever talked about rogue traders

[urban spire]

space marines are big (literally and figuratively) because they're easy to paint

[celest dome]

Weren't they Space Warrior or something ?

[storm jungle]

I KNOW RIGHT

ITS LIKE ITS IN THE NAME OR SOMETHING

[storm jungle]

Dont let the marine fans hear you say that lmao

"NuuUUU THE PAULDRONS HAVE A LORE REASON FOR BEING SO BIG"

Yeah sure and the primaris ATV is a perfect combat vehicle

totally not because its a toy

[crimson kayak]

Sorry can't hear you under the avenger autocannon

[storm jungle]

Oh no Monsi lost their hearing

They shall join Brother Tinitus

[urban spire]

SOMEONE CALL FOR AN EARTHSHAKER?

[gloomy citrus]

Well, they do clearly display the legion/chapter emblem.

[urban spire]

yeah

cause they're big

[storm jungle]

^

[urban spire]

so it's easy to paint it on

[storm jungle]

yep

Marines are popular because they are your generic space marines

every sci-fi setting has one

https://tenor.com/view/red-team-halo-halo-wars-gif-22616025

https://tenor.com/view/starcraft-marines-nuke-wings-of-liberty-starcraft2-gif-22765673

https://tenor.com/view/starship-troopers-traitor-of-mars-starship-jump-army-gif-9385311

[gloomy citrus]

🫐

[crimson kayak]

Also, for the atv discussion, literally all primaris vehicles are grav-based except it

[arctic talon]

Outriders

[urban spire]

i enjoy the warrior monk aspect of space marines, i wouldn't hate them so much if the writing didn't completely fall to pieces whenever a space marine is present

[arctic talon]

Also the servo turret is a “vehicle”

[urban spire]

it's like trying to get coherent sentences out of me when i have a cat in front of me

black library authors see a space marine and are like WHOS A GOO BOY! SUCH A PRETTY BOY!

anyway to address the actual point stock purist was making

if you only read novels without space marines you get an impression of an incredibly interesting setting, where space marines are like some distant mythical figures with little to no influence on the story

objects of religious reverence, not physical beings in the world

[crimson kayak]

The main problem imo with warhammer is scale

[arctic talon]

The huge scale is to allow for homebrew

To easily make sense

Unlike warhammer fantasy

Where everything is very tightly woven together

[copper patrol]

warhammer 40k is a good setting and often a bad story(like overarching)

imo

[urban spire]

a universe like 40k benefits stories told from a perspective that lets you appreciate the immense scale, and with space marines being the biggest badasses in the entire galaxy they can't really do that effectively

especially because they're all war all the time, can't blend into a crowd, and are literally hyno-indoctrinated to be perfectly loyal tin soldiers

[dense mortar]

QUESTI40KN: Are there mandates or rules that stipulate that Space Marines must intervene or assist other chapters that are in detrimental situations?

[urban spire]

a space marine literally cannot experience the culture of a hive directly, he can only observe it in the ruins left over after the fighting is done

[urban spire]

no, chapters are extremely autonomous

[dense mortar]

That dont fall under an Imperial Codex?

[urban spire]

they are not actually part of the imperium

[dense mortar]

For isntance, if the Space Wolves are being decimated, and the Raven Guards are near by. . . they are not obligated to assist?

[dense mortar]

Then what is there purpose? Whom do they fight for

[urban spire]

they do fight for the imperium

[copper patrol]

I mean they aren't obligated by any rules to assist

but they probably would

[urban spire]

yes

they aren't under any legal obligation to do anything but submit a regular gene-seed tithe to mars so it can be checked for corruption

[dense mortar]

What a poorly designed defense of mankind

The Space Marines would be 10x stronger and more secure if they mobilized collectively under orders

[copper patrol]

[urban spire]

why do you say that

[dense mortar]

Standard War College 101 class we learn this. Operating under command and control allows tactical harmony by pulling resources together to execute certain objectives

Whereas, everyone doing there own thing might look cool . . . but entirely ineffective

[urban spire]

why do you need to be in a chain of command to achieve tactical harmony by pulling together resources to execute certain objectives?

[dense mortar]

If you have ever tried such a thing in real life, that wouldnt be a real question

[copper patrol]

logical decision making in my 40k

heresy

[urban spire]

there exists extremely effective org structures that lack firmly established chains of command

without getting into real life politics, the space marines are perfectly capable of submitting to the command of an imperial lord general

phrased that a little weird maybe

[copper patrol]

also they where under chains of command

and then the horus heresy happened

[dense mortar]

It just seems like a collection of vassals. In proxy service to the Imperium.

[dense mortar]

omg. How long are they gonna hold that one over everyones head

[urban spire]

they're definitely not vassals

it's almost like massive command structures with a single point of failure at the top are extremely susceptible to corruption

[dense mortar]

Firstly. . . and most importantly. We dont refer to the Emperor as a "point of failure" in this home.

Secondly, mankind has had 40k years to establish a working chain of command, that controls and resources the space marines at neccessity.

[urban spire]

it's been 10k years since the horus heresy

and the empire left behind after the emperor got interred on the golden toilet has had a REAL ROUGH GO OF IT

[dense mortar]

The first thing I would do, on my first day in charge of the imperium. Outlaw all individual chapters and enact immediate space marine reunification under one banner

[urban spire]

well unfortunately that would get you shot in the head

[dense mortar]

It would be an unpopular decision at first, but in the long run be beneficial to the imperium.

[celest dome]

Because that would work and not lead to a Civil war

[urban spire]

there is no single person in charge of the imperium

it is a council of the heads of the various institutions

[green loom]

Can I has more plasticguard

[urban spire]

and also roboute guilliman, now

however, in the 36th millennium someone did actually try to assume direct control

that period of time is known as the age of apostasy and it sucked exceptionally bad for everyone

[green loom]

Don't forget that there was some assassin guy who assumed control of the entire imperium at some point

[celest dome]

Van Gorge ?

[green loom]

But went insane after a while because it was just that painful to run

[urban spire]

vandire

goge vandire

[celest dome]

Meh close enough

[urban spire]

he was the head of both the administratum and the ministorum; both the religious head and the administratorial leader

[celest dome]

Thank you sensless

[urban spire]

:V

[open pumice]

Not entirely true

Space marines are part of the imperium

And are subject to imperial law

I.e.: inquisitors have power over them

[urban spire]

they are largely autonomous

[open pumice]

But they arent well supervised

[urban spire]

the inquisition has extremely little power to compel them

[open pumice]

This is the end result of group 1k+ biologically augmented super soldiers in the best tech available with the best guns available i to autononus armies

But they are technically under i periak authority

Unlike say, the Custodes

[storm jungle]

Late but I appreciate this wording.

[open pumice]

Who are not under impwrial authority

[storm jungle]

people think Marines fight for "humanity"

when thats almost never the case

[open pumice]

This is because thats how they keep stating it, especially in the horus heresy

[urban spire]

yeah no there's a whole bunch of chapters who actively disdain humans lol

[storm jungle]

KEK

[open pumice]

Anybidy who isnt ultramarines for the moat part lmao

Hell even most guard regiments view civilians as just obstacles between them and success

Not humans that need to be protected

[crimson kayak]

This conversation is literally the loyalist primarchs discussing why legions had to be divided into chapters

[urban spire]

well the cool thing about the guard is that it's got humans in it and not big meaty robots fervently loyal to a dead concept

so regimental command can disdain civilians while the rank and file remain sympathetic

[storm jungle]

Yeah also as usual reminder, the Imperium's structure makes no sense because its a parody of every evil human regime in history

[urban spire]

the guard is cool like that, in that it can tell nuanced stories

[open pumice]

40k is litteraly a parody of thatcher era brittain

With comunist russia and nazi Germany thrown in for effect

[storm jungle]

ıdk theres people that think the aquila is based on the roman eagle

so

[open pumice]

Well it doeant help that they use latin naming conventions

And gothic, atlwast the high version, is just bastardized latin

Like

If yoy stepped into 40k, notnunderstanding its a parody setting

Thats a reasonably assumtion to make

Especially because uts calles the fucking aquilla

[urban spire]

early 40k has a very firmly stated stance of fascism and religious fanaticism bad

[open pumice]

Which is exactly what the romans called their symbol

[urban spire]

modern 40k does not state it very firmly anymore

[storm jungle]

Yeah

GW just simply goes:

"Imperium is bad."

[open pumice]

Because the settings evolved

[storm jungle]

It really hasnt

[open pumice]

Mainly

[storm jungle]

the Imperium is still a parody

[open pumice]

Things like the ussr and tatcher are gone

[storm jungle]

its more that they are also the protags

[open pumice]

The era its parodying is no longer relatable

[storm jungle]

so you gotta show em in a ""good"" light

[open pumice]

Sorry it was bad wording

[urban spire]

the imperium is a good place to tell human stories

[open pumice]

The setting hasnt evolved the way we interact with it has

[storm jungle]

Oh in that way yes i agree

[urban spire]

humans in the imperium can be good people in spite of the imperium being awful

[storm jungle]

its more that the problem is you are both trying to:

say fascism bad

also trying to make bucks off said faction

its the reason why in a GW shop you wont see a marine crushing the skull of Joe the Rebel for wanting to free his world from Imperial oppression

thats not how you sell 10 year olds minis

[open pumice]

Ye

Yeah lmao

[storm jungle]

It WOULD be funny but still

[urban spire]

it's also why slaanesh is so damn squirrely

[storm jungle]

Yeah but i think that at least works

[open pumice]

Slaanesh has gone under the biggest change of any single entity in 40k

[storm jungle]

sexuality is a part of slaanesh's aesthetic but its dominantly more hellraiser focus wise

[green loom]

You can keep slaanesh lowkey

Or sort of anyway

[storm jungle]

Like for example the Keeper of Secrets is a muscular androgynous figure

and still looks very beautiful

compared to uh

mole rat daemonettes

[open pumice]

I want the keepwr of secrets to own me tbh

[green loom]

glares at unification mod

[urban spire]

"strangely alluring" TO WHOMSTDV, GW?

[open pumice]

Me

[green loom]

You'd be surprisd

[open pumice]

Me

Th abswer is me

[green loom]

Either way it's more a supernatural thing anyhow

[open pumice]

I want that

@urban spire you found who, give me the slaanesh futa cock

[crisp heath]

'ate 'orny elves
'ate 'orny daemons
luv sexless machines
simple as

[green loom]

[urban spire]

wait

admech or necrons?

[crisp heath]

yes

[urban spire]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-handshake-muscle-strong-man-gif-5783927

i want an admech class so bad

admech are so neglected

[storm jungle]

Mechanicus The Game™️ has been the biggest glowup admech have gotten in 2 decades

but a new glowup is sorely needed

[green loom]

Ok but more guard when?

[storm jungle]

I wanna shoot a radiation gun and damage my teammates' health before they kick me out of the game

[urban spire]

only gun that friendly fires, and it deals corruption

[celest dome]

Mechanicus 2when ?

[crisp heath]

Most admech stuff these days is more Cawl stuff, but Brutal Kunnin' was kickass

[urban spire]

the mechanicus studio just released ixion, so they'll probably be busy with that for a while longer

"just"

it's been a little while now i guess

[storm jungle]

Mechanicus got an update yesterday

[urban spire]

korean language

[storm jungle]

that was gonna be my joke

sad

[urban spire]

YOU FOOL

[storm jungle]

AUGHH-

[urban spire]

DID YOU THINK I DO NOT CHECK DAILY?

[crisp heath]

Cawl and Trazyn remains my favorite interaction in the whole setting and no one will take that from me

[urban spire]

rofl

[storm jungle]

"You fool! You gave us a front seat to a coup!"

[crisp heath]

Straight down to Cawl being so casual when he thinks it's Veilwalker and then being like "hang on, no, I don't respect you"

[storm jungle]

When you are that long lived that sort of statement is a mood

[urban spire]

gonna be honest i think cawl is a little loopy after 10k years of living in the emperor's basement

[storm jungle]

mfer has like 10 Microsoft AI Programs in his head

[arctic talon]

He's pretty "sane"

for an archmagos

[storm jungle]

also surprisingly jolly

in a wacky Uncle Stan sort of way

[urban spire]

only when he runs his jolly personality

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/grunkle-stan-gravity-gravity-falls-darn-beautiful-man-gif-15274795

[crisp heath]

I mean he's barely even "Cawl" anymore

He's 200 guys in a magos robe

[urban spire]

that said, ixion is pretty good

and they still have guillaume david on for the sound track, and it goes just as hard

[storm jungle]

A part of me wants to check it out

but also I like Mechanicus too much

[urban spire]

you should, the vibe is immaculate

in a

constantly screaming and struggling to feed alloys to the airlock god kind of way

[crisp heath]

Is there an american expy in the lore? Because can imagine what a UK company would use to make "America, but scarier"

[urban spire]

what, in 40k?

[crisp heath]

not even leaning into memes about the US, just shit like... garbage disposals.

[urban spire]

is there an america in 40k?

[crisp heath]

yeah

[versed ledge]

Imagine being an eccliarchal Arch Deacon in a planet suffering from famine and drought. Only to face off a plague that turns the infected into rotting masses of flesh that tears viscous larvae and coughs up flies

[urban spire]

hive cities are kinda new york i guess?

[versed ledge]

Gotta love nurgle

[versed ledge]

Yes, and Beijing, Kowloon, hong kong

[crisp heath]

I guess maybe Catachan is the US since they're based off Rambo, but I guess it's actually technically Vietnam because it's based off Rambo?

[urban spire]

every major city on earth stacked on top of each other 200 times

[crisp heath]

Kowloon is actually much more accurate than New York lmao

[urban spire]

catachan is nothing

catachan is ridiculous

catachan is nonsense

[green loom]

Jopall Indentured?

[urban spire]

i love it

[green loom]

Or however you spell it

[crisp heath]

idk I think Catachan is pretty close to the Southern US with the whole "sometimes the landscape unexpectedly begins to hunt you and you're forced to abandon entire towns"

[versed ledge]

Catachan is nam, the guard though is 1960s to 70s era US army and Marines

[urban spire]

the guard is a wide range of forces

including 1800s idiots in bright uniforms with flintlocks

(vostroyans i think?)

[versed ledge]

We also have Prussians in space....

[solid solar]

Newer to 40k. Holy Terra is earth right? Where on our Earth is Big E & the golden throne situated?

[gloomy citrus]

Aren't they more like Australians?

[arctic talon]

Nepal

[urban spire]

everest isn't it?

[arctic talon]

The imperial palace is centered around Mt Everest and Nepal

[crisp heath]

The Emperor is in the Himalayas, but his palace covers most of Asia

[versed ledge]

What happened to the old Earth Government, there's like potential for lore for that

[arctic talon]

All wiped out

[solid solar]

Wow

[arctic talon]

They’re noble houses

In the imperium now

[gloomy citrus]

Strange place to locate a throne at.

[arctic talon]

If they still exist

[urban spire]

too long ago for anyone to remember

[solid solar]

Just his palace covers most of Asia?

[urban spire]

it's inside the mountain, which i believe is more or less hollowed out

[gloomy citrus]

Not so strange.

[arctic talon]

The entire palace complex does

[gloomy citrus]

Dwarf style.

[solid solar]

Damn

[versed ledge]

There has to be another human faction apart from the imperium and Chaos

[arctic talon]

But terra is pretty much the worst place imaginable

For the average person to live

[crisp heath]

I'm pretty sure it was built there because that's where the entrance to Kathmandu is, and he built the facility where he made primarchs and astartes there for that reason and it just became his home base

[arctic talon]

The Leagues of Votaan technically

[urban spire]

the squats are human, technically

[gloomy citrus]

Worse then most other shitholes?

[arctic talon]

Aside from that

[urban spire]

jinx

[arctic talon]

Everyone gets integrated

Or wiped out

Join or die

[solid solar]

I would've though terra to be the safest place

[gloomy citrus]

Tau.

[solid solar]

Where no xenos or chaos could reach

[arctic talon]

It’s got one of the highest cults per capita in the imperium

[urban spire]

there are independent humans but they either get conquered by the imperium or remain ignorant of its existence

[solid solar]

Ooh

[versed ledge]

Tau'va conquers all, Gue'vesa

[gloomy citrus]

All thanks to Perty.

[arctic talon]

There’s a ton of cultists on terra

As in both chaos and genestealer

Also there was a massive chaos incursion

When the great rift opened

That killed a bunch of custodes

[urban spire]

terra's kinda a gleaming golden shithole

[arctic talon]

^

[gloomy citrus]

I never understood why anyone would be dumb enough to join the Nids.

[arctic talon]

You get brainwashed

[urban spire]

you don't join a genestealer cult, you're born into it

[crisp heath]

They don't join tyranids, they become tyranids

[storm jungle]

3 seperate answers at once jesus

tho all are correct

[storm jungle]

Also because living in the Imperium sucks

[crisp heath]

we must correct the heresy

[storm jungle]

its literally just slave work

[gloomy citrus]

Chaos> Genestealer.

[storm jungle]

TRUE

tho GSC got a lot more unity

[urban spire]

genestealer gunslingers rule though

[storm jungle]

they actually all work together

[urban spire]

fucking immaculate aesthetic

[storm jungle]

Chaos cults are... well chaotic

badum ts

[crisp heath]

I'm a tyranid geek and even I hate the genestealers, Chaos > Genestealers

[gloomy citrus]

Just don't join Slaanesh.

You'll regret it.

[crisp heath]

If I wanted my expendable meat wall to have a family and opinions, I'd join the Guard

[storm jungle]

oh shit

its McCree from Overwatch

[urban spire]

you mean casidy

[solid solar]

Do y'all have any recommendations on psyker lore videos? I'm looking for a longform video that goes into psyker powers/abilities, prominent/famous psykers, sanctioned psykers, non-sanctioned psykers, black ships, sisters of silence, ect.

[storm jungle]

AAA

[gloomy citrus]

https://youtu.be/iFRa0KZsGhc

[urban spire]

lol

[solid solar]

Luetin09 doesn't seem to have a dedicated psyker video

[arctic talon]

Psykers are a really broad topic

In general

Almost every major race has psykers

[storm jungle]

https://youtu.be/RJ9v-HzB5Q4

[arctic talon]

Yeah that one is good

[gloomy citrus]

Typhon.

[arctic talon]

What about typhon

[gloomy citrus]

You know what about Typhon/Typhus.

[arctic talon]

About how he’s a piece of shit

Or something else

[gloomy citrus]

Well, yeah.

[storm jungle]

nice wording there

almost literal

[solid solar]

Based. Ty

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

Np ❤️

as for the Black Ships just read the lexi

their lore isnt that wide but still pretty neat and concise

[urban spire]

psykers are cool

[storm jungle]

They do get ice-spells its true

[urban spire]

best part of that astartes fan video

[versed ledge]

I want psykers that can brainwash others to submission like in "Faith and Fire"

[urban spire]

idk what faith and fire is but there's probably psykers that can do whatever happens in faith and fire

[celest dome]

Not sure if Pet/Summoner class really would work in tide genre

[urban spire]

a guard fireteam would be sick

if they find a way to do it i'm all for it

[crimson kayak]

loose cannon only option of taking 4 ratlings with him.

[celest dome]

Now that I think about it, Pay Day did it

[crimson kayak]

wait what

didn't play payday in a while, when did they add a summoner class?

[celest dome]

Not summoner but "pet" class, you can turn cops into allies

[crimson kayak]

uh

proceeds to turn a beast of nurgle on our side

[celest dome]

The only way to make one work for me would be an Admech class that get some Servo Skulls as ranged pet

[urban spire]

.

YEAH

the only way forward for the game is with an admech class

there is simply no other available option

[crimson kayak]

i mean that's kinda obvious if they ever want to fill that fifth character slot

[celest dome]

Only if its a new archetype

[urban spire]

it would suck so bad if admech was a zealot subclass or something

[celest dome]

Or Veteran, hearing an Admech talking about Cadia would be the worst

[crisp heath]

idk I could see a hive ganger class

[crimson kayak]

and how would that work?

i can't think of a way for making "hive ganger" unique enough

[urban spire]

this aint necromunda

[celest dome]

Each time someone say Ganger archetype i wonder how they would introduce anything the other archetype couldn't?

[crisp heath]

Could be something like a shotgunner, most weapons really short range, high damage, perks based around closing distance and merging front line/crowd control

[urban spire]

what we've seen of the gangers from this hive so far has been heretical and unimpressive

[celest dome]

Zealot already does that in parts

[copper patrol]

also like

a breacher or something

[crisp heath]

It does kind of cross into zealot territory, but honestly all the classes have heavy overlap depending on playstyle

[copper patrol]

for vet would also do the same thing

[crimson kayak]

could probably work better as a vet brawler class

[celest dome]

Breacher as a Veteran class could work

[crimson kayak]

only because hive ganger would lock a lot of options for the weak ass backstory creation

[urban spire]

storm trooper class

for the vet

[crimson kayak]

literally just sharpshooter with an hellgun

[celest dome]

Could have the Hellgun like Outcast Engineer's clatter gun

And impact krak grenadsz

[crisp heath]

I'd say skitarii is more likely than a full on techpriest, but that would probably be a vet subclass

[copper patrol]

probably not

it's too much of a difference for it to be on an existing character

[desert dust]

It's kinda true that if your good at the base game aka melee and range and knowledge of what to do when stuff goes bad your right.
It's all the hidden stats that make them feel different like sliding makes zealot near invincible while it makes the sharpshooter and ogryn take more damage.
Zealot feels like a fast tank in melee while sharpshooter feels kinda sluggish in comparison.
But SS feels like a immortal tank with unlimited toughness when fighting long range against gunners with his ult on.

[crimson kayak]

probably more tech-adept archetype and then things like magos, skitarii ecc... as classes

[celest dome]

Neither a Skitarii nor a Tech Priest, just Tech Adept

[crisp heath]

Another idea for the ganger could be their special would be shooting up combat stims recreationally and getting a berserk mode, something like the zealot's special but without the dash, maybe just an overall speed + damage + cleave boost

[celest dome]

Combat stim can also be given to the Veteran since they often use them

Combat stim could have even been a pick up (like the potions in Vt2)

Also even in the ganger we know of, they have no real standard, should they be like Orlok, Goliath, Esher... or something brand new

[crisp heath]

Guardsman Steve class when

[open pumice]

thats what the vet is TBH

he is guardsman steve

[crisp heath]

No, I mean THE guardsman Steve

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fk86VmkWYAAqO7-.jpg

https://preview.redd.it/steve-the-flayed-one-v0-f0x4f762rv9a1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=3fc0bfd97173a5dc87e7a9b21e40a67d83919439

[open pumice]

ah meme man

[storm jungle]

Oh man that would be so goofy but id love it lmao

just turn this nurgle traitor guard/cultist to our side

[urban spire]

psyker telepath

[storm jungle]

Yeah in Payday 2 you literally actively convert the cops

[crisp heath]

Cultist class

[storm jungle]

all that training beaten out of him because you slapped him around with a wad of cash

and shouted at him slightly

[green loom]

Isn't a cultist class just the zealot

[plush mason]

well frankly its ether work with the robbers or get beat to death with a giant spoon so the obvious choice is clear for the cop

[storm jungle]

I agree

imagine being berated by Ethan and Hela

id rather kill my comrades too

[plush mason]

its not like the psycho robbers wont kill them anyway

and likely in a lot more fucked up ways

[open pumice]

like a comically large spoon

[plush mason]

that can set them on fire at times

if its gold plated

[open pumice]

god i love payday

[storm jungle]

40k: We have the deepest lore

Payday: GUYS, WE GOTTA PUT BAIN'S SOUL IN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND PARDON ALL OUR WARCRIMES

[dusk patrol]

Don’t worry, there’s always option B. get all the pre signed pardons that Lincoln or whoever the fuck made and use them

Because that’s how pardons work

Definitely would hold up in court

Nobody would ever try anything extrajudicial against the biggest personal mass murderers ever

[arctic talon]

Originally you were gona put a bomb vest on them lol

But they felt that didn’t fit the tone of the game

[storm jungle]

Lmao yeah i remember that

like it does make sense but the jokey tone of Convert is much better

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

The Payday gang have murdered more cops than the Imperium has killed its citizens at this point.

Im sure the CIA/FBI has cloning-vats under the White House or something

[arctic talon]

That’s gona be made canon in payday 3 💀

[dusk patrol]

Wouldn’t be shocked

I know that in canon they don’t kill as many dudes

A fair amount but it’s not quite as nuts

And most missions are only done once, with a lot of them being stealth as canon

Still silly as fuck though

[queen laurel]

Thank god, because i would just leave my body behind and go to heaven directly when i find a giant man with juggernaut armor, carrying around a minigun and all he just wanted to do is rob the bank i'm just trying to deposit in

[errant yacht]

So i had a dumb thought cuz I vaguely remember Gundam's Universal Century incorporating Gundam heads on certain GM mobile suits... Has there been any cases where the Astra Militarum employed Space Marine helmet replicas as sort of a means for psychological warfare? Obviously, your average guardsman can't be nearly as intimidating enough to pass off as a Marine, but if some high-ranking officers were leading troops while wearing a Space Marine disguise, would that be an effective way to intimidate non-Ork non-Tyranid xenos or Traitor Guard?

[signal bramble]

There hasn’t. No.

There was a planet that was so inspired by the ultramarines that they emulated them.

And they fell to Slaanesh in their pursuit of perfection.

Not sure if you count that.

[errant yacht]

Probably not. Was thinking if a Chaos outbreak was to occur on one planet... a minor one, not one with actual spiky space marines... Anyways, how effective would it be to have high ranking officers disguise themselves as Marines? Cuz most humans have never seen a Space Marine before, so if a relatively experienced Guard regiment was deployed and some traitor guard catches glimpse of a Space Marine's silhouette, that might throw them off guard.

[signal bramble]

Eh the imperium doesn’t rely on that kind of psychological warfare.

Shock and awe with a mortar barrage and tank shells is a more direct and efficient means.

[plush mason]

https://youtu.be/uxRY25TV_Po

[urban spire]

the imperial morale weapon of choice is the flamer

[plush mason]

why is red the main color of the inquisition?

[crimson kayak]

i mean, maccabian janissaries basically got the whole cosplay kit except the facemask

[plush mason]

is there any lore reason or is just a "why not" thing?

[crimson kayak]

i mean, red and black is basically the colour of all "human faith" themed faction.

[queen laurel]

Why not i mean red is practically a symbol in the warhammer universe

Khorne, Orks, blood angels

[plush mason]

true

[queen laurel]

Sisters of battle

[crimson kayak]

and even then i would argue inquisition as a whole is much more black then red

sorotitas black armour+red details, idem for stormtroopers, deathwatch is basically full black

[queen laurel]

But the other races cannot use the superior red

Redder

It's a shade of red that causes actual retinal damage to whoever is looking at it

Yes it hurts your eyes just by looking at it

[crimson kayak]

saim-hann looking at you

[queen laurel]

Orks my guy

[crimson kayak]

i mean, saim hann are just eldar speed freaks

[queen laurel]

I ain't really the type to to be an expert on eldar lore

All i know is they orgasmed a god into existence

[crimson kayak]

basically take an ork speed cult, the white scars tactics/small amount of tribalism and throw them on a craftworld

and paint them ALL RED

[queen laurel]

So they're space elf cavalry

Got it

[crimson kayak]

yes

and it's considered a bunch of savages by other craftworlds

now that i think about it, they are basically the ynnari before the ynnari

[queen laurel]

Aren't there eldar that literally ride dinosaurs

[crimson kayak]

yep, exodites

[queen laurel]

But they're not considered savage?

[crimson kayak]

they basically abandon their old ways and go amish with a secret stack of ar15's

[crimson kayak]

depends, some consider them savages, some consider them the start of a new eldar empire, many outcasts and such go live there

but they generally just get stomped before they can do anything cool

because that's what you get when you put dragons against orbital bombardment

[queen laurel]

Oh Just like the avatar of khaine

[crimson kayak]

basically yeah

atleast the reason for exodites sucking makes sense, as they force themselves on a pre-industrial level on hard to live worlds

and that kinda makes you a prime target for anyone with more than a single gun

[queen laurel]

Yeah but snake bites did that and somehow they can work

[crimson kayak]

yeah but snake bites are orks so they don't count

[queen laurel]

Shit you right

[crimson kayak]

kinda easier when you are the fungal spore equivalent of bear grills.

and able to grow your own dino's out into the local dump.

[queen laurel]

Do they even have a equivalent of a gargantuan squiggoth?

[crimson kayak]

exodites or snake bites?

exodites get dragons

[queen laurel]

Exodites, what's their equivalent for this

[crimson kayak]

oh

literally dino's

[celest dome]

SPanish Inquisition

[green loom]

Red looks cool

[crimson kayak]

or eldar knights

[crimson kayak]

not to be confused with wraithknights

[queen laurel]

I do find their idea nice but it is quite hard to pull off in a setting that has plasma guns as standard weapons

[green loom]

They do still get plasma guns

Or we've the eldar equivalent is

[crimson kayak]

thing is, if they have to defend their planet they get some access to modern eldar tech

[green loom]

They've just secluded themselves to aa planet

[crimson kayak]

they do have shuriken weapons, turrets and the like

[queen laurel]

Hey that's something

[crimson kayak]

ench why the "amish with ar-15" description

like, in the infinite and the divine exodites use pterosaurs (pterodactyl equivalent) to drop bombs on the enemies Tiktaq'to style

[queen laurel]

Nice

[crimson kayak]

or they actually go and mount tank cannons on Carnosaurs born from warp activity

[queen laurel]

I want to see that thing go up against a squiggoth

I will pay good money to see that

[crimson kayak]

well, first then pay good money for making gw consider actually making some exodite models lol

[urban spire]

just watch some godzilla movies and pretend there's orks and eldar off screen, that's as close as you'll get

[sleek wigeon]

admittedly they sound cool
if we ever get some models for them, I bet someone will make a Na'vi army kitbash with them (the blue guys from james cameron's Avatar)

[hallow saddle]

John Blanche likes using reds, oranges, browns, ochres, warm colours. So I think it's come from the art more than anything else

[sleek wigeon]

that and it implies status, esteem, power, everything the inquisition is

its the most decorated, top brass of the imperium (admin wise, that honor goes to Custodes physically), of course they're going to don the regal red robes and gold trimmed armor (when they need to, anyway)

[plush mason]

oh right, GW is british so ofc red is the color of status and power kek

[cyan oxide]

Isn’t that how most people interpret that? I was taught that in America

[celest dome]

Isn't the colour of high power purple ?

[cyan oxide]

Purple is generally nobility and elegance but power in a more authoritative and overbearing sense tends to be red from my understanding

[storm jungle]

Also red is just cool

and hostile

its neat

[cyan oxide]

The fact it is hostile is part of the reason it’s associated with power

Color theory is cool because there is a little bit of everything in explaining why each color says what. Like anything from historical scarcity of dye all the way to primal instinct

Like the color red is associated with aggression because monkey brain sees red and thinks blood and seeing blood typically means there is a threat to your life in some way

[plush mason]

depends on the culture

like in Egypt's dynastic period the color of high power was blue

in rome's imperial period purple was the color of the emperor

and ever since the norman conquest red was the color of the english monarchy afaik

color theory has never been fixed and the meanings and importance of colors have changed for all history and often have many meanings at the same time

just like iconography

[queen laurel]

Since i was bored and i had nothing to do, i looked into necrons that are colored blue and i found one, the thokt dynasty

Apparently they use a special type of blue sparkling radiation that powers most of their things

[plush mason]

funny enough there is one color that has never had its meaning change afaik

gold

gold has for all cultures represented divinity and wealth afaik

[near wasp]

It is the color of the god emperor, it is purity

[queen laurel]

Yeah, it's the symbol of richness that's why the god damn Badmoonz wear that shit like it's their work uniform

[plush mason]

yup

[plush mason]

that is honestly really close to the royal blue as well lol

[winter vessel]

Are Techmarines taught to accept the beliefs of the Cult Mechanicus during their training?

[crimson kayak]

yes

in fact they pledge allegiance to both the mechanicus and the chapter

[celest dome]

"taught" "training"
Totally not Brainwashed into being loyal to the Admech if needed and taught the bare minimum

[winter vessel]

Didn’t know how else to phrase it

[dense mortar]

So, despite the fierce rivalries between certain chapters, MOST would come to the others aid because they all share a common goal of protecting humanity?

[copper patrol]

on average yes

[dense mortar]

how much of this is based off loyalty to humanity, and how much is based off "I get the respect and bragging rights of saving these fools"

[copper patrol]

I hate to say it depends on the chapter

but it probably does

[dense mortar]

Ok let me throw a few out there

[copper patrol]

most it's loyatly to each other/humanity

[dense mortar]

Space Wolves. Loyalty or Bragging?

[copper patrol]

both

it's space wolves

they are probably doing it out of loyalty but they are gonna brag about it prolly

[dense mortar]

Ultramarines?

[copper patrol]

loyalty

[dense mortar]

Sallamanders?

[copper patrol]

also loyalty

most the founding chapters are pretty "nice" to other Space marines

[celest dome]

Space Wolf would help humans just because, they would help othe Chapters for braging rights

[copper patrol]

and then there is like the marines malevolent that'd only help if it was in their best interest

[dense mortar]

Red Scorpions?

Whom, I have on good authority are pretty ruthless and have no problem sacraficing their own

[copper patrol]

I know nothing about them so Icouldn't say

[dense mortar]

unknown founding, conservative imperial purists

what does your gut tell you

[copper patrol]

sounds like less shitty mariens malevolent

probably help somewhat out of loyalty and somewhat that helping could earn favors/etc

[dense mortar]

Again, this is a PRIME reason why I would establish IMMEDIATE space marine reunification under one imperial banner. Effectively outlaw all individual chapters. And install new leadership at each chapter

So that the entirety of humanities forces are marching to one drum beat

following one set of highly regulated codex

[celest dome]

Lol good job in become Enemy Number 1 of the Imperium

[copper patrol]

the reason they aren't under 1(ish) banner is because of a funny man named horus

last name heresy

[celest dome]

Taking Legions into account even earlier than that

[dense mortar]

I understand. HOWEVER, I would ensure there are backstops in place to prevent such a thing from ever happenign again

[copper patrol]

too much logic for the imperium

heresy

[crimson kayak]

Proceeds to forget he lives in a world where a daemon could just possess your military leader

[dense mortar]

Obviously I have the Adeptus Mechanicus working on neural implants that protect the user from chaotic influences.

Diverting as much resources to that as possible

[crimson kayak]

Yeah, but remember that you are still dealing with the administratum

[silver hawk]

I would like to hear about the alpha legion

Where can I find such information

[crimson kayak]

Redacted

[celest dome]

If you use enough handwavium then sure you can fix all the problems, but you can't

[dense mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/m-bison-game-over-street-fighter-gif-13971358

[plush mason]

everything you hear/read about the alpha legion is a lie, as is this sentence

[copper patrol]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813175730518753300/1071586471355621417/BDCE20E5-FF5B-4798-8D00-EA81C1B1C446.gif

[crimson kayak]

Like, what you are implying would be basically reforming the entirety of the imperium into another kind of simpler sci fi empire

[silver hawk]

So everything they are could very well be false

[crimson kayak]

Wich basically means eliminating even the concept of the imperium

I'm sure you'll like the Interex

[dense mortar]

Yes. One that functions as a single organism. That consoldates and deploys resources at neccessity

[winter vessel]

Yes, no

[plush mason]

yes unironically

[crimson kayak]

Votann pretty much have that mentality

Except they are not united

Entirely atleast

[dense mortar]

Is wargamming 101. The first thing you learn about is command and control. Having space marines just "out there" doing there own thing, is not an effective defense strategy. . . at least not long term

[crimson kayak]

Yeah but remember we are talking galaxy wide logistics with the imperium, the Votann work because their holds are mainly all in one place, also being clones helps

And your standard method of travel is basically bringing a galleon to doom's version of river styx, Hoping that you can arrive Atleast near where you wanted to

[dense mortar]

Or, the Imperium could consolidate all there Space Marines at Terran space. Formulate an impenatrable stellar defense wall. And just live peaceful while chaos washes upon the rocks of a united defense force

[crimson kayak]

Except chaos swallowing the rest of the galaxy would mean INFINITE DAEMONS Invading the Terran space forever

[celest dome]

So you give up the totality of the Imperial space just to have Terra protected ?

[dense mortar]

Sometimes you gotta take two steps back, before moving forward.

[crimson kayak]

Then you would have to tell me how you would supply the equivalent of multiple legions of astartes and all the rest of the Terran defences with just mars

[dense mortar]

Well at the current rate, they are already locked in infinite or eventual catalcysmic combat

[plush mason]

iirc Terra cant even sustain itself. it depends on shipments from other worlds to stay alive

[dense mortar]

Ah yes, supplies and logistics. I hadnt factored that in as of yet

[crimson kayak]

Yeah but your scenario would imply letting chaos swallow much of realspace and becoming 1000% worse than now

[dense mortar]

I think I could re-establish the weebway tunnels

and solve the supply issue

[crimson kayak]

Dude

There's like

No schematics

And the broken one is literally locked in eternal fighting between custodes and daemons

[dense mortar]

Most things in space, are not as complicated as we think they are. The equation of the universe should be simple enough that a child can understand it ~ Einstein

Same will be for the Weebway

Trust me on this one

[plush mason]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-rising-revengeance-senator-armstrong-revengeance-i-made-it-the-fuck-up-gif-25029602

[dense mortar]

ALSO, from a more practical standpoint. The Eldar are still around. . . and you cannot look me in the face and tell me they dont know how to repair it. . .or atleast have a working theory

[plush mason]

that was all i could think about with the "trust me on this one" line lol

[dense mortar]

Through my newly established Diplomatic Corps, headed up by the Inquisition, we will open positive communications with the Eldar

[plush mason]

why would they help? the imperium wants nothing less than to wipe out all xeno life in the galaxy the eldar included

[dense mortar]

Thats the OLD Imperium. The new Imperium is more concerned with survival than eradication.

[celest dome]

Lol , the Dark Eldar would watch it break or use it to blackmail and the other Eldar either don't care or would know better to not do it

[dense mortar]

Did the Eldar and Imperium not work together to prevent the fall of Cadia? Did they not work together to stop an Tyrnaid invasion? Theres always a way

[crimson kayak]

Yeah but they had a shared goal there

Not just plox help humanity stuck

It was more we help or we are both fucked

[dense mortar]

EXACTLY MY POINT! Create a cataclysmic problem, and then provide the solution in exchange for help

The eldar will be none the wiser

[crimson kayak]

That's.... No, the Eldar would just try to kick you in the balls for making the problem

[dense mortar]

Chaos is treacherous indeed, but humans are still the most mischevious and deceitful beings in the universe.

[plush mason]

yeah trick the aliens with the ability to see the future

and read minds

and literally use NOTHING but psychic powered tech

[dense mortar]

There precognitive abilities are far from infallible.

The very idea of the future is a constantly moving target

We can work that to our favor

quite easily indeed

[plush mason]

humans are way way way way way too stupid to trick the eldar like that

[dense mortar]

Yes, en masse you are correct

But, we just need one person to pull the springs. If every single Space Marines things its real, then the Eldar have a crusade of minds to read that all tell them its real

Misdirection. Smoke. Mirrors. Tricks as ancient as time, but will even work on Eldar

[celest dome]

Unless the whole of humanity become mary/gary stue its impossible

[plush mason]

yeah

[dense mortar]

Ok, well that is just my fantasy booking of how things should be if I were in charge.

By all means, lets keep the current status quo of endless suffering and imminent extinction.

[plush mason]

i mean, that is the whole point of 40k lol

[celest dome]

Warhammer is a wargame system, not a simple book setting where most problem need ro be fixed

[dense mortar]

Indeed that may be the disconnect

[plush mason]

its not a problem if its how things where intended to be

[dense mortar]

True. I am coming into this universe as a book reader. Not a table top player

I want it to all make sense

[plush mason]

"in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war"

[dense mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/make-it-make-sense-tiffany-cross-make-sense-clear-it-up-make-it-clear-gif-23404814

Why are daemons one of the most scary and feared creatures in the world. . . and just about every space marine has punched one in the face or killed on in solo combat

[plush mason]

the whole setting is a dark satire started in the 1980s during the Thatcher years

[celest dome]

Because most of the BL writer aren't top writer

[dense mortar]

Id much rather have a Space Marine get his arm severed off and narrowly escape death, only to be crippled the rest of their life, than have one throw down with a daemon and win every other book

[plush mason]

agreed sadly the space marines are often the main characters of the setting

so they have a lot of anime protag crap going on a lot of times

its best to think of warhammer 40k as a british made anime

[celest dome]

Still doesn't change that most Black Library are middle to low quality fiction

[plush mason]

if anything it just reinforces that fact

[celest dome]

And I say that as some one who has read trash fiction

[dense mortar]

Well, I will just quitely await the emperors return

[orchid thicket]

You kidding? Innumerable faceless Space Marines have been utterly destroyed by daemons in many novels

[celest dome]

Won't happen

[dense mortar]

Faceless. But as soon as you put a name on one. . . by god they are killing that Daemon

[plush mason]

yeah the named ones are the anime protag of the story

[orchid thicket]

Well faceless daemons are the ones that get destroyed too

Give one a name, like Samus, and he'll stick by you from the first Horus Heresy novel all the way to the End and the Death

[green loom]

Named ones usually get licks in

And I think you're underestimating how durable marines get

[orchid thicket]

Also yeah, Space Marines are superhumans, ergo their heroics should also be larger than life

The Imperium has 1 million worlds and also only 1 space marine for each one

[green loom]

Well maybe more now but yeah

[orchid thicket]

Eh, probably not considering that the Imperium has countless wars and armies during wars are never at full strength

[celest dome]

Yes, because BL isn't high literature
Futhermore with the 40k

[crimson kayak]

Literally any media with a protagonist be like

[plush mason]

^

[crimson kayak]

Also I mean, it's kinda easier to punch a daemon where you are an 8 foot supersoldiers built with the purpose of punching things

[spring nest]

does the phalanx have planet-destroying weapons?

also what is the estimated number of warships in the imperial navy (not counting SM and Admech)

[arctic talon]

Its normal guns

Also any imperial fist ships on board

With exterminatus capabilities

[green loom]

<NA>

[plush mason]

which one is more powerful, the rock or the phalanx?

[signal bramble]

A lot.

[signal bramble]

Depends on the author tbh.

[plush mason]

lol

[green loom]

Do we count support fleets?

Rock probably has a boatload of random DA ships floating around

[signal bramble]

We know the fleet uses millions of personnel and press gang people from planets to crew the ships.

[plush mason]

nah just the monasteries themselves

[signal bramble]

So we must presume there are hundreds of thousands of ships.

[green loom]

I'd say Phalanx has an edge since it's not just jury rigged planetary rubble

[plush mason]

lol true

[celest dome]

Doesn't the Rock hold "forbidden" weaponry in it ? since it's the Dark Angels

[signal bramble]

Probably.

[green loom]

Those are stored on former dreadwing ships I think

[signal bramble]

They have secret stc’s so we have to presume they have have some crazy DAoT weaponry on there.

But regarding the imperial fleet, it’s one of those situations where GW doesn’t give hard numbers.

[plush mason]

what other fortress monasteries are there for the space marines?

[signal bramble]

It’s either on the ground or a spaceship.

[green loom]

Ye, BTs have the Eternal Crusader

Some fortresses might not be named

[plush mason]

i see

[green loom]

I think the Ultras operate out of the Fortress of Hera on Macragge?

[plush mason]

ngl, the BFG video games left me with a very poor impression of the SM fleet

[signal bramble]

The space combat capabilities of the SM varies.

They also don’t want them to be as strong or stronger than the actual fleet.

[plush mason]

oh its just that their ships in said games where fast but squishy

and when i say fast i mean fast for the imperium lol

so the poor SM fleets where nether tanky enough nor fast enough to really do anything against most enemy ships

[dense mortar]

Do common humans see Space Marines as heroes

[celest dome]

Yes, the Emperor's Angels

[dense mortar]

How do they feel about the Imperium as a whole?

[celest dome]

Who peoples or SM ?

Depend on case to case scenario

But most don't really know anything else

[crimson kayak]

Yep, same answer with the first question also

Some planets may view them as actual angels of the emperor, another may have actually seen marine action on their own planet and so form their own opinion, others may even think incoming astartes are ghosts stealing children

On the imperium feeling kinda the same, except you know, 99% of the population know they don't have any other true option

And so do with what they have

[dense mortar]

So let me ask

on Fenris, for example. Where the space wolves recruit their marines. The planet is still in the Steel Age, riding wooden boats and living in huts

why?

The imperium is so advanced, why are they not?

[celest dome]

Because the IoM is a f#ed up placed

[crimson kayak]

Yep, and most of these planets are for marine recluitment, so they usually keep them at this level to have a better stock of warriors to choose from

[dense mortar]

This is what I thought as I am reading. But I thought also, "Noo, the imperium wouldnt do that to their own people, simply to grow warriors"

[crimson kayak]

Like the Howling Grypphons that forcefully maintain a permanent status quo between the medieval humans there just so they can keep fighting wars with each other

[crimson kayak]

I mean, the problem begins when you thought that after all we told you lol

[celest dome]

Are you reading the same books as everyone

[crimson kayak]

The entire point of the imperial guard is that they are soldiers made as a form of Taxes

[celest dome]

It's Warhammer, not Star Trek

[celest dome]

The tithe must, and will be paid

[dense mortar]

So, the Imperium of Man watches over these planets. They send actual "recruiters" down to the planets to sit off to the side while large battles are taking place, humans being murdered in droves, merely to select the best fighter out of the group and pluck them away from everything they have ever known

which is literally just happened to Ragnar

[crimson kayak]

Yes

And they don't even have to tell the other humans

[dense mortar]

Thats a bit fked

[crimson kayak]

.... What isn't?

[raven cosmos]

Warhammer 40k is basically "what is the worst possible thing imaginable, and can we make it worse"

[dense mortar]

Wow. This guy is watching women and children get slaughtered, and is like "Yep, that guy can fight. Bring him"

[crimson kayak]

Blood Angels literally organizing gladiatorial tournaments between 12 to 14 year old for their recluits

[dense mortar]

and these are ADVANCED humans

[celest dome]

Nobody said that the Imperium were the good guys

[crimson kayak]

Remember that "this guy" is still an 8 foot tall Uber-human and usually mentally detached toward the lives of single humans

Who most surely saw more blood and gore than ww1 and ww2 combined

And that was just last week

[wraith quarry]

They are made "better" when they are made Space Marines. They will forget all that was before.

[urban spire]

posthuman monsters

[wraith quarry]

They lose a part of their own humanity to serve humanity.

[crimson kayak]

Also remember that more that there looots and looots of indoctrination

[wraith quarry]

And if normal Space Marines creep you out, never ever look up what a Dreadnought is.

[near wasp]

Would you rather kidnap children or have your entire way of life snuffed out in an instant?

And by way of life i mean the existance of your species

[arctic talon]

Dante being forced to stab another child

Truly the peak of his childhood right after watching another one fall to their death

[urban spire]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/818605636228218900/1085365920509210645/5eu58kw8sqna1.png

unsuspecting new people showing a slight interest in 40k and coming to this channel

[near wasp]

i mean we did drag at least 1 person into 40k that way

[crimson kayak]

Wich is more than usual

[near wasp]

you see im just getting my buddies to play darktide and when they ask questions about something a character said i explain. its working

[green loom]

Truly a monster

[open pumice]

This is what I do

[versed ledge]

I still have no idea how a bunch of social rejects and dregs are able to kick so much ass in atoma

[storm jungle]

They arent "social rejects"

Pretty much all of them have some light to heavy combat experience

Also ogryns

Also plasma guns

Also bolters

Also power-weapons

Also lots of things

[green loom]

You're not really rejects, that's just the quirky word they're using for us
Like some of the vet personas are Cadians
The Zealots are all insane crusaders
The Psykers are, well, terrifying mages with questionable mastery over their brain bursting abilities(And potentially insane)
And Ogryn are Ogryn

[urban spire]

veteran is a veteran

survival rates in the guard are not good, veterancy is an impressive achievement

[tiny root]

I had hoped, with the release of the Arks books, wherein Dante was Firstborn, that he would stay firstborn
have it be a new conflict for his character "An old sage who can't quite keep up anymore with the likes of Mephiston or other Primaris commanders, but he still has to stick around for the prophecy" is, imo, a more interesting character motivation than "well he's primaris now, so he can keep fighting like he did the last half a millenia"

[versed ledge]

True also we evidently have ex-enforcer psykers...how did cops and arbites become one of us I do not know

[copper patrol]

stopped being useful

[versed ledge]

Fair 'nuff

[green loom]

Or they crossed the wrong person

Or they said something risque

Or they looked bad

One of the backgrounds is straight up "you mildly annoyed someone so they sent you to prison"

[versed ledge]

Oof

Thus is life in the imperium. The imperium really has to get destroyed, but it's the only thing holding humanity together

[near wasp]

got another one to download today in fact

[crimson kayak]

also consider that all non-cadian veterans are technically part of moebian regiments, aka they fought the darktide proper instead of just the cult+ single brigade of moebian sixth we have here

[crystal forum]

Are there any ships that use power sword technology on their bows for ramming?

[celest dome]

Do Ursus Claw count as Power sword technology ?

No wait, those are harpons

[crystal forum]

Yeah i mean an energy barrier wrapping around the center of the bow that separates material at a molecular level

[celest dome]

I don't think there is a big enough one for it to work

[crystal forum]

wdym?

couldn't they just have designed it for the ship?

i mean it would be a good idea to design the entire ship around that

use anti shield weapons only as you're gonna be using the power bow for ramming ships in half

[green loom]

Upscaling tech doesn't really work by just making it bigger

[celest dome]

Even in that case, you wouldn't need such technology, and again, we're constrained by what the Imperium can do

[crystal forum]

i'm just asking if it already exists

it's entirely possible to do it, all you need is a big enough power supply

[celest dome]

Well I don't think the Imperium has done it currently, maybe the Necron have something of the sort

[crisp heath]

I don't think necrons would have it, since their whole schtick is their technology is so old and powerful no one recognizes it anymore

[crystal forum]

I mean they do use power weapons

[celest dome]

Sure but they have to weird blade that get sharp as it goes

[crisp heath]

necrons usually use phase weapons afaik

phase weapons basically flick out of reality and then remanifest inside your armor, power weapons actually cut through armor

[celest dome]

I mean a ramming weapon design to simply cut the other vessel

Like all the ramming faction mostly use bulk force and maybe some firepower to weaken the target area

[crisp heath]

huh, didn't realize hyperphase and phase weapons were different

always figured hyperphase just meant "beefy phase weapon"

The article makes it sound like it functions like a phase weapon, but since the 40k wiki basically copy pastes from books it probably showed up somewhere. Probably just writers forgetting what words meant what again.

[green loom]

I mean it IS fandom

Which is lol

[dense mortar]

I will not stand idly by while the youths of numerous underdeveloped human worlds are ripped from their communities, and placed in service to the Imperium as Space Marines.

No sir

[orchid thicket]

God Primaris marines are so lame

[crisp heath]

I'm seeing people on reddit saying that Imperial cruisers often have power rams, but not finding a source for that

So uh, maybe?

[green loom]

Don't think about it too much, it is ram that hit thing

[celest dome]

But a ram doesn't cut as much as it crush

[celest dome]

And you're branded as a Heretic, good luck, chaos is always interested in new pawns

[dense mortar]

At least you konw where you stand with Chaos

[green loom]

Do you?

[celest dome]

||You don't||

[crimson kayak]

Yeah, let's then put them through human sacrifices, slavery by aliens and daemons, eradication and food source for the orks or nids or given as science experiments for the necrons

[celest dome]

Yes, they Imperium is the worst fate possible for Mankind, but it's the only one that can make sense. Trying to change it in a snap will only end up doing worse

[crimson kayak]

Like, I get it, I'm a fan of the Tau too, but I don't want my imperium to be Tau thanks

[crimson kayak]

Remember that now enforcers and arbites are not the same faction anymore

[celest dome]

They never really were, and at the same time still are.

[crimson kayak]

Wasn't enforcer an arbites rank before?

[celest dome]

Like is Interpol on the same faction as normal national Police

[celest dome]

Still is

[crimson kayak]

Because of course it fucking is

[celest dome]

Disambiguation files on the Lexi are a godsend

[queen laurel]

Basically they are space marine+

[crimson kayak]

I'll always say that primaris should have been just an equipment upgrade and not biological too

Greyshields/Chimera Geneseed? Cool idea, could have been done better.

New equipment and tactics? Easily explained with guilliman return, update to the codex and cawl involvment

Biological upgrades+turning old marines into primaris+things like primaris death companies? Zero sense imo

[urban spire]

what is a primaris death company

[crimson kayak]

You know death companies? The black armored berserkers of the blood angels? The ones that are like this because of gene seed flaws?

Well, apparently primaris, wich are supposed to not have geneseed flaws, can apparently still become death company

Somehow

[urban spire]

oh

of course

[crimson kayak]

Also they are supposed to be basically Khorne berserk loyalist with the amount of melee they do and this is the primaris box cover

[green loom]

Primaris have been playing into the BAs tragedy since like right after they got introduced lmao keep up

The geneseed flaws still effect primaris marines

[crimson kayak]

They do?

[green loom]

Yes!

[crimson kayak]

I swear I read the contrary somewhere lol

[green loom]

You did, but it was a baseless claim meant to be taken as such

[crimson kayak]

Well, that just makes the genetic upgrades of primaris even more redundant

[green loom]

Not really
They get benefits beyond just no defects

Like introduction wise yeah they're just a marketing tool

[crimson kayak]

I mean the implants are literally "make them bigger, stronger and pump them with even more stims when they are near death"

[crimson kayak]

As I said I don't hate on the primaris (except the edgy skull mask helmet) just the fact they are space marine+

[green loom]

I mean idk there's basis for it, just wish we got upscaled stuff with it instead of Stormcast but 40k

[crimson kayak]

Like the whole idea by itself is cool, greyshields finally streamline homebrew without the need of throwing your marines on random founding number 14 and actually canonizing possible traitor gene-seed/chimera chapters, the new equipment would show that an imperium under better direction with guilliman can actually get shit done for once and still give the reason for new models, the indomitus crusade also provides good background for all new homebrew as new regiments/chapters rise during its course. I just consider the bio upgrades as something completely unnecessary

[crimson kayak]

Basically yeah

Anyhow, I'd like to see now primaris storm giants considering their already enormous size for a marine

[queen laurel]

And i swear to god primaris weapons are literally just given to them so that they gained the upper hand

All of them have the goodshit

My brother in christ what about the rest of your f****** army

[crimson kayak]

All I can give you is ww2 Americans in space

[chilly creek]

The rest of the army is getting phased out

So why bother improving it?

[crimson kayak]

But yeah a return of something akin to the solar auxilia would have been nice

[green loom]

Meh, I like guard
And it'd just be admech