40k-lore-chat

[storm jungle]

tried getting into it once

saw the amount of lore

instantly ran away

[urban spire]

i got really into warcraft lore

don't it's not worth it

[storm jungle]

OOF

[copper patrol]

it's nothing too ground breaking iirc

[storm jungle]

its cool for what it is

but like

its a bit batshit

[copper patrol]

at least the backstory type sutff

[arctic talon]

Its very repetative

is all I'm going to say

[storm jungle]

LMAO

[copper patrol]

it's mainly the stories in it

stuff like arthas etc

[arctic talon]

The actual main plot

of most expansions

[storm jungle]

That was the time i was actually trying to get into warcraft, all the Lich King stuff

what a time to be alive that was

[urban spire]

since world of warcraft came out the story has just been a train of world ending threats

[copper patrol]

hoard and alliance fight each other then don't

then do again

then don't

then do

[arctic talon]

Hoard

kekw

[plush mason]

Blizzard is just now getting off of a like 6 year long campaign to piss all over the lore

[storm jungle]

Marvel/DC Moment

[urban spire]

horde/alliance have chronic backstabbing disorder

[arctic talon]

Shadowlands

[copper patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-emoji-disintegrating-emoji-disappearing-meme-21st-century-gif-24891417

shadowlands

also bfa was stupid

[arctic talon]

Me when I completely destroy several characters motivations and personalities

yeah

BFA was silly

[copper patrol]

lets make them fight

again

[arctic talon]

it pretty much killed several characters personalities

and goals

LUL

I LOVE BLIZZARD

[urban spire]

i love

eggs.

anyway

[copper patrol]

it'd be like if guilliman and the ynari fought each other

[arctic talon]

e g g

hm

[copper patrol]

then fought something else

toghether

[arctic talon]

I wonder if there's any alternatives to like

chicken eggs in 40k

[copper patrol]

then backstabed each other

[plush mason]

grox eggs maybe

[copper patrol]

continue the cycle

[iron locust]

I love how when blizzard made overwatch 2 they just deleted a lot of lore from the old hero pages when making the new ones

[urban spire]

chickens are mega extinct but eggs are still around

it is troubling

[arctic talon]

Chickens prolly aren't extinct

but like

very fucked up

since Pigs still exist in 40k somehow

and I'm not talking about enforcers and arbites

[plush mason]

lmao

[urban spire]

you know what, 40k is grimdark but at least it's not xeelie grimdark. at least humans are biocompatible with most things in the galaxy so the loss of earth life doesn't mean they just have to eat reconstituted dirt forever

hive worlds notwithstanding

[arctic talon]

Xeelie is very grimdark

[plush mason]

i mean, its not like they got rid of anything important kek

[arctic talon]

Overwatch lore fans being blueballed for several years

and then getting blueballed even harder

truly a game of all time

[copper patrol]

overwatch was kept afloat by porn

[iron locust]

Still weird for them to do stuff like say we don’t know what doomfist’s goals are when we’ve known them for years

[arctic talon]

The plan™️

[plush mason]

thats their fault for caring about the lore of an arcade arena shooter lmao

[arctic talon]

lol

[urban spire]

i think it's best to just scream in existential despair pretend blizzard doesn't exist and can't hurt us

[arctic talon]

True

[iron locust]

What so now we’re caring about the irl origin point of a fictional world?

[plush mason]

hell the original doom lore was "they killed my rabbit. ima wipe out the demon race"

[arctic talon]

no

idfk

https://tenor.com/view/unspeakable-violence-unspeakable-violence-gif-25206571

[iron locust]

Why does it matter what the original media was

[plush mason]

but really my point was that games like overwatch are not made for lore

its like Quake

[iron locust]

Well I mean like league of legends was not made for lore and yet has an interesting universe

Doesn’t mean that the lore cannot be good

[arctic talon]

League's lore is completely divorced from the game

tbh

[iron locust]

Yeah exactly

[plush mason]

LoL is very different as Riot set out to make it the first MOBA with an actual lore and story behind it

[arctic talon]

ehhhh

that was blizards goal

with overwatch

they just had no idea what to do

[plush mason]

typical Blizzard

[iron locust]

Also blizzard dropping HOTS when it wasn’t the best most popular moba

[arctic talon]

mfw blizzard being upset HOTS wasn't an esports success

when it was designed as a causal game

still astounds me

[urban spire]

well

[plush mason]

at the time esports where one of blizzard's biggest revenue sources so they went crazy with focusing on them

my problem with HOTS was the issue with power scaling with some of the heroes

[arctic talon]

lmfao

[urban spire]

you know i think the main problem with darktide is that there's no catboys

[plush mason]

like Tyrial is more or less a god and would bitch slap someone like Uther into the void in a millisecond

[arctic talon]

true!

[urban spire]

catboy guardsman perching on boxes would be just perfect

[plush mason]

what would their F skill be?

[ripe ravine]

never bought the frozen throne so never played dota. missed the boat so all these conversations read like spanish now lol

[iron locust]

Obligatory

[plush mason]

lmao

[urban spire]

lmao

beastmen in general would be cool

since we're doing underdogs

[arctic talon]

I love beastmen

in 40k

lore wise

tabletop wise I think I have untreated trauma from them being broken as hell in killteam

[ripe ravine]

remember power armor is just a fursuit for people who want to be robots

[arctic talon]

lol

[versed ledge]

He's not exactly wrong, considering there is the space wolves chapter

[timid ridge]

Which ordo are we in darktide? Malleus or hereticus? They seem tk have a lot of overlap

[open pumice]

It's not described but likely malleus

the difference between them is pretty simple

The ordo Hereticus is exclusively concerned with the church

Where malleus cares exclusively for the great enemy

those two problems just happen to coincide often

here, there is no mention of the church

so likely, it's malleus

or some other, s,aller ordo

[timid ridge]

Hereticus hunts people who dont obey the emperor or pray to chaos right? And malleus is against actual demons?

[open pumice]

no

hereticus looks for heresy in the church

[timid ridge]

Ohh, not in the general populus?

[open pumice]

they don't care about normal people, they care about the ecchliesiarchy ttrying to take over the imperium again

[timid ridge]

Got it

That makes sense

[open pumice]

the malleus is who you would call if you suspected your neighbor was a chaos cultist

though

most inquisitors look for corruption of all kinds, hwerever they go

so if a hereticus inquisitor goes looking for a chaos cult in a local echlesiarchy temple, and instead finds a genestealer cult

they're not oging to stop their hunt and find someone form the ordo xenos

they are going to get rid of the genestealer cult themselves

and if they're inquisitor greyfax, they're going to bitch and whine the entire fucking time, while being an aggressively uninteresting character

[storm jungle]

Its Hereticus

the characters mention it in the dialogue

along with having taken the "Hereticus Oath" by being fully certified agents of the Inquisition

[open pumice]

I lied sorry

[storm jungle]

[open pumice]

I would have figured Malleus, but I didn't hear those bits of diologue

(its been like 2 months since I last booted up the game)

[storm jungle]

Yeah dont worry its literally like one of the most off-handed dialogues in the game

i got 500+ hours and i heard it once lmao

[open pumice]

lmao

[timid ridge]

But no church is mentioned? We are in the undercity right?

Im back to being confused on the difference between hereticus and malleus noe

Now*

[open pumice]

Good

Thats the goal

IN all honesty, as I said, the ordos aren't hard defined lines

if the inquisitor heard there was a chaos uprizing on atoma, and was the closest to the sector

he might aswell swing by

[signal bramble]

Or I should say heretics aren’t just chaos worshippers.

Someone who denies the divinity of the emperor is a heretic. Someone dares question the church is a heretic.

[open pumice]

largely herecy is malleus' job

herreticus is looking for herecy specifically in the ecchlesiarchy

[signal bramble]

Malleus focuses on daemons and their ilk.

And those that would summon them.

[open pumice]

i.e., a chaos cult lmao

yeah the

ordos aren't defined lines

its more a suggestion

as I said, a xenos operative wouldn't turn their nose up from exterminating a chaos cult inside of the ecchlesiarchy if they just happened to stumble into it

[signal bramble]

Really what constitutes heresy is whatever the person powerful to do something about it decides is heresy.

[open pumice]

Truth

[serene mist]

Are there any instances where a Custodes (prior to the Indomitus Crusade times, that is) went on a penitent crusade due to some shame or another?

[open pumice]

Not specifically

The entire order is attempting to repent for taking the two fattest Ls in imperial history

But they arent as pious as the reat of the galaxy, and so dont do the whole penetent crusade thing

(Atleast none that we know of)

[serene mist]

I'm just considering the concept of a Custodes who, on wanting to repent and make amends for some specific failing, goes out into the galaxy before self-attaching to some far-flung Fleet Chapter

[open pumice]

Generally they would see that as a bad move

Failing is one thing

Depriving the emperor of a guardian is worse

[serene mist]

Eh, fair

[open pumice]

At least in their minds

Ofcourse that changed post indomitus

Where they now pretect the emperor by killing his enemies before they get to terra

Though they still likwly wouldnt do penetent crusades specifically

[serene mist]

The loyalists from the traitor legions, the ones on the Eisenstein

What precisely happened to them?

Is it completely known?

....also shit, was under the impression that the Eisenstein loyalists were the largest group of em

That seems to be wrong

[signal bramble]

The custodes don’t like the Astartes, at all. So that’s not likely.

[open pumice]

They made it to terra

[signal bramble]

If the emperor’s legion books and Dawn of Fire books are to be believed, custodes were specifically created to kill Astartes in addition to their other duties.

[open pumice]

Theres large pockets ib moat of the legions

[open pumice]

I could be wrong but as far as i remember, they werent so much designed to kill them, as astartes were deaigbed to be worse than them

[signal bramble]

No they outright say it.

[open pumice]

Ah

Then i am wrong

I know ita not statrd in emperors legion

[serene mist]

I wonder what a loyalist Death Guard Chapter would look like by 41k

Presumably exceedingly secretive

[open pumice]

Dead, most likely.

[signal bramble]

Infantry focused with a lot of heavy armor.

[serene mist]

Well if they weren't dead

Obviously

Lol

[open pumice]

But probably just like loyalist detahguard in 30k

[signal bramble]

Assuming they were descended from loyalist gene stock I’d guess they probably don’t even remember their original sire by this point.

[open pumice]

Heavy infantry and long range artillary focus

So

Terminators and earth shakers

[serene mist]

Would they still have a predisposition to chemical agents

[open pumice]

I mean

Maybe

[serene mist]

And, how do you think they would logic their origin

[open pumice]

If they lasted 11000 years then likely no

[open pumice]

Most older chapters either font know, or dont care

[signal bramble]

I found the excerpt. It’s from watchers of the throne.

[open pumice]

Idk I strugle to believe they were engineered for it specifically

[serene mist]

Impressive then that the Minotaur Chapter Master fought one to a standstill

I think

[open pumice]

It had been a while sibce i resf the book

[open pumice]

You dont become a chapter master by being a push over

[serene mist]

Especially when you're one of the Minotaurs

[signal bramble]

Well according to the custodes they were.

So I’m inclined to believe them.

[open pumice]

Id always figured it was the other way around, the astartes were more deaigbed as the vicyims of custodes over custodes being desigbed for a threat that wouldnt exist for over 500 years lmao

Ig im wrong tho

[signal bramble]

It also lends more believability to the theory that big E was going to wipe out the Astartes when he was done with them.

[open pumice]

Yeah

I like to think he wasnt

Because that idea, as mich credit as it holds, wouldnt have worked

Custodes could together wipe out a legion or two

But defo not all 20 legions

Thats betweeb 2 million and 4 million marines vs 10k Custodes

[signal bramble]

Also remember that according to malcador, they were going to have the legions turn one by one and be wiped out by the others.

So it wouldn’t have been gradual.

[open pumice]

Maybe

Malcadir cant be trusted tho

[signal bramble]

Also despite being called the 10,000 there are a lot more custodes than that.

[open pumice]

Supposedly, theirnnumbers are always finneckey

I doubt there are over 20000 of them by the height of the great crusade

[signal bramble]

Per their codex they use that name so no one actually knows how many there really are.

[open pumice]

Ye

This is correct

[signal bramble]

Besides them ofc.

[serene mist]

What measures would be available to a loyalist Death Guard Chapter to avoid the detection of such by the Inquisition, do you suppose

[open pumice]

Nonex the inquisition would know and would have sanctioned it

[signal bramble]

You’re overthinking it.

[open pumice]

Or they wpuldnt have been foubded to begin with

[signal bramble]

If they were deemed loyal during the great crusade they would change their name and heraldry and never refer to themselves as the death guard again.

[serene mist]

Yeah but the Ordos Minoris do detections and stuff right?

[open pumice]

Yeah there wouldnt exactly be the death guard chapter runnint wround

[serene mist]

To observe the gene seed

Right?

[signal bramble]

Yes but how would they get original death guard geneseed to compare it to?

Or even think to compare it?

[serene mist]

Hmm

Interesting

[signal bramble]

Geneseed testing is done to monitor for mutation.

[serene mist]

Ah

[signal bramble]

Or any abnormalities that would make them mutate or whatever.

[serene mist]

Warp shenanigans would presumably target them

[odd palm]

There is speculation that a chapter from the 21st "cursed" founding is of Mortarions sons. But there isn't anything concrete and they are listed as Guilliman's sons.

[signal bramble]

After 10k years its hard to say.

[serene mist]

It is the Warp

Papa Nurgle presumably is a dick

[signal bramble]

Especially because the geneseed does naturally change over time after being mixed with thousands of different dudes.

[open pumice]

The implication was that it was a heresy era group. But yes. There are alot of chapters that are rumored to have traitor geneseed

[signal bramble]

The Grandfather has his legion anyway.

[open pumice]

Several BA chapters come to mind

[serene mist]

Blood Ravens

Lol

[odd palm]

I don't believe so seeing as the chapter was founded.....six thousand years after the heresy

[open pumice]

No not the 21st founding, the specific hypothetical chaoter thayr made up

[odd palm]

Fair enough

My bad, didn't read the context

[signal bramble]

Also here’s a hot take, a chapter’s geneseed origin is the least interesting part about them and people that homebrew get too caught up in it. What makes a marine chapter interesting is their culture and interactions with the rest of the imperium.

[odd palm]

Yeah in actual fact your lineage aside from defects like the Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Salamanders until recently should have no sway over how a chapter operates

[serene mist]

Yeah but the origin is the starting point and I like having a general idea of how such a thing shifts out to what it becomes in modern 40k

[open pumice]

Correct

Just play blood angels and be based

[serene mist]

If you start out relatively shunned
How does that change to the modern
Etc

[open pumice]

Chapters arent born with a reputation

So they wont exactly start out shunned

[serene mist]

Hmm

Interesting

[odd palm]

So my question is which I hope hasn't already been asked.
What does having a chapter descended from traitor stock allow you to do that can't be done with any other lineage?

Endurance? Will?

The Iron Hands, Salamanders and Imperial Fists have that in spades

[arctic talon]

Nothing really

[odd palm]

Mhm

[signal bramble]

Nothing special apart from maybe certain preferences for certain fighting styles.

[arctic talon]

Genetics don’t really do much to do with a chapters disposition often times

With a few exceptions

That being Blood Angels and Space Wolves

[odd palm]

Certain fighting styles can very easily be done by any lineage

[arctic talon]

Mostly due to issues

Genetically

But other chapters do have some interesting genetic abnormalities despite coming from stable genetic stock

[serene mist]

A predisposition towards hating the past, maybe? Ruthlessness towards pride, arrogance, the preening of Chapters on their lineages and heraldries

[signal bramble]

It’s just a preference that is more like an instinct. But if we’re talking in 40k there’s a good chance the chapter has evolved to something completely different.

[arctic talon]

I.E there’s a imperial fists successor which loves rapid assaults

And have an issue with their members going insane

[odd palm]

Kind of but not really. Again the culture more so than the lineage dictates doctrine

[arctic talon]

Yep

Culture matters a lot for chapters

[odd palm]

Look at the UM and IF successors

They are the most doctrinally diverse

[signal bramble]

Black Templar in general are a good example. Imperial fists love building shit but the BT don’t.

[arctic talon]

Yeah but they’re low hanging fruit imo

also the mortifactors lul

they love skulls

[signal bramble]

Mortefactors are a good example to.

[arctic talon]

and skinning

[odd palm]

Executioners are melee monsters comparable to the Flesh Tearers, but of Dorn's lineage

[arctic talon]

also that one Raven Guard sucessor that loves taking slaves for good genetics

Which is ironic

[odd palm]

Oh the sharks

[arctic talon]

not the sharks

gimme a sec

[serene mist]

Not the sharks

[odd palm]

Claws?

[arctic talon]

but the sharks do like their slaves

[odd palm]

Ashen Claws?

Oh um.....

The albino

chapter

[signal bramble]

But yeah when talking chapters it’s best not to get caught up on geneseed origin.

[arctic talon]

Death Specters

they like taking men and women with good genetics for "genetic stock"

[odd palm]

yeah......eugenics and all that

[signal bramble]

Though if they ever revived the Sons of Horus and Abaddon found out I think that would be a hilariously bad idea.

[arctic talon]

y e p

but generally speaking if a chapter even suspects they have traitor genetics

they're gona be hiding it

[signal bramble]

And that’s assuming they even know in the first place! There’s a good chance they’ll have no clue.

[arctic talon]

yep

also the Blood Ravens in canon finally found out who their daddy is

[serene mist]

fuck

Who is it

[arctic talon]

except they immediately sealed the records and refuse to talk about it

And anyone whos tried to look into it has

"vanished"

read: murdered

[serene mist]

THEY'RE GODDAMN THOUSAND SUNS

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[serene mist]

lol

[arctic talon]

if they aren't thousand sons I'd be surprised

lol

only other potential genetic stock is word bearers due to how many damn psykers they have

but prolly not

[odd palm]

So tbh the main reasons you create a successor to from the traitor lineages is in most cases to be either;

1. a loyal chapter that discovers their lineage or keeps it secret and they eventually turn traitor or
2. are so paranoid and secretive, yet unable to be corrupted no matter
   Is my experience, looking at a lot of 'brews.
   The first one can be very interesting if well done, but you need a good reason why they're of traitor stock to begin with.

The 21st founding is in truth an often lazy and hand wavey excuse to explain their existence so the writer doesn't have to do the leg work

[arctic talon]

21st founding is more so general genetic fuckery

the only chapter in that with signs of traitor stock are the sons of anteaus

mostly since they don't fucking die

but that also could just be due to other genetic tinkering done

[odd palm]

It is, but for homerewing.....it's an easy get out of jail free card to allow traitor stock or chimeric chapters to exist

[arctic talon]

Yeah if you want that

it is

but of the canon chapters presented only one seems to share genetic traits with a traitor legion

but its more likely they're some sort of prototype for making bigger and stronger marines

[odd palm]

True

[arctic talon]

But a sons of Antaeus marine in scout armor was able to dual a marine in normal power armor to a stand still

[odd palm]

Oh yeah, they are something else. I suppose in a way you could speculate an attempt at proto primaris with some of their insane feats

But I've seen theories that the modern minotaurs are Perturabo's, but it seems questionable at best because most of their evidence is the authors personal bias with few hints in lore to back the claim up

[open pumice]

Minotaurs will wlays be a mystery

And its tor the better

[odd palm]

Indeed, and they should stay that way

[open pumice]

Ye

[odd palm]

We don't always need all the details, a little mystery is nice

[open pumice]

Agreed

As much as i love the heresy series

They cleared up alot of msyteries that were byst left secrets

Its been a trend as of late

[odd palm]

Less would have been better.
Maybe two or three solid books per legion for their moment in the heresy would have been nice.

[open pumice]

YeH

I find myself agreeing

[odd palm]

Now we have what? 80 books

I'm way off

[arctic talon]

More

There’s a lot of bad ones tho

[odd palm]

~60. But tonnes of short stories and novellas

[open pumice]

54 main line

+9 sot

And then novelas, short stories, etc

And yet
Not enough of them are about dominion zephon

[odd palm]

Yeah, so maybe one book for the most notable battle prior to the heresy which really illustrates how the legion operates and shows off their character.
Then one book for their pivotal moment in the heresy and maybe one novella to flesh out the most notable characters.
^ This per legion would have been enough tbh^
Adds some detail but leaves plenty of the mystery in place

[open pumice]

Maybe

The thing is

The sauce wasnt spred evenly

[open pumice]

Also funnily enough 3 books per legion would have ended at the exact same number of 54

[open pumice]

Like, there is one blood angels book in the heresy

One

[odd palm]

Yeah, if you don't have one of the main BL authors backing your favourite legion, you get the scraps

[open pumice]

And then SoT

Sanguinius appears for the imperium secundus story line

And i get that they werent huge in the heresy

But like

Why cant my legion fight the baddies too ;_;

[odd palm]

They do a lot of that off screen so to speak

[open pumice]

Yeah but I would have liked that on screen lmai

This is

Partially

Me playing favorites

[odd palm]

Yeah

[open pumice]

But it would have been nice to see more of the blood angels as well as a few other legions that are more interesting than the goddamn dark angels who had like 6 novels to themselves and still somehow figured out how to fucking worm their way into SoT

I HATE CORSWAIN I HATE CORSWAIN I HATE CORSWAIN I HATE CORSWAIN

God

[odd palm]

All you can hope for is one of the main authors to back your legion, then you pray it's only that single author and you also pray that they actually write the legion correctly

[open pumice]

they could not have made the dark angels any less interesting

I dread the day the lion comes back to 40k

[odd palm]

They're awful in the HH series. I think the DA are infintely less interesting in the FW black books

[open pumice]

Agreeable

Man

they had such potential

and then they decided to give thim 6 novels

and forgot to give tham a single definable trait besides knights of the round table

It dawned on me just how bad they were when I was rooting for the night lords to win

[odd palm]

I think the only DA focused HH novel I've read is the Lions and it seems like they just skimmed the FW black book number.....8 or 9 and took the most........gary sue aspects from it imo.

[open pumice]

Theyre hugely prevalent in imperium secundus

where the lion needs daddy guilliman to go and fix his problems with the sons of nostramo

the ultrmarines which, too my surprise, where incredibly well done and an amazingly in depth legion for one so famed as the gary stew legion

[odd palm]

Like I understand being the 1st legion, the legion you trust most with critical assignments of secrecy and weapon experimentation. But giving them Men of Iron that are bound to the legions whim?
To much

[open pumice]

I could be misremembering but

Factually incorrect?

I'm psure thats the Tsons who make use of the castellax

(I have misremembered alot tonight)

[odd palm]

It was in the fight against the main foe. The Legion as a weapon of last resort, deployed dumbed down men of iron against the main psychic foe

[open pumice]

ah

yeah I went and goobled it

the excindo-class

they seem to only be mentioned in horus heresy book 9

which

as far as i'm concerned

the black books aren't cannon

[odd palm]

The Lions novel is

[open pumice]

Sure, but in my defence I haven't read that lmao

[odd palm]

Fair enough

[open pumice]

He as a character isn't nearly interesting enough for me to care to buy and read a book dedicated to him

I love how he's touted as this astounding martial combatant

but looses every duel he's in

just like corswain :)

3rd best martial combatant in the imperium
looses almost every 1v1 fight he's in

at best, ties

[odd palm]

I didn't find him interesting, but I thought I'd give him and his legion a go with his book and regretted it.
Tried the same thing with the Iron Warriors and White Scars and those two beat other contenders for top 5 fav legions

[open pumice]

Ye

White scars specifically

Chris Wraight did an amazing job with them holy shit

[odd palm]

Indeed

Glad he was the only one to write them for the most part. Short stories and SoT aside

[open pumice]

even SoT

pmuch only him and abnett wrote for them in the siege

warhawk was great, and they maintained a lot of their identity through saturnine and abnett's writing

[odd palm]

I like the put saturnine to the back of my mind tbh. That.....swearing corporal from the grenadiers and Dorn v Fulgrim fight left a bad taste in my mouth

[open pumice]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I liked them both

[odd palm]

To each their own I suppose XD

[open pumice]

fair enough

[dense mortar]

I have done a 24 hour deep dive crash course into Warhammer Lore. I have come to the conclusion that the universe is a sad and dark one. A void of hopeless things. Humanity lives in a constant state of anxiety due to its very existence hanging by a thread that perpetually unravels until its inevitable end. Sat upon a doomsday clock that ticks ever closer to chaos and destruction. What is happiness? What is love? What is compassion? These words are meaningless in a society where the only thing that matters is making it to tomorrow. . . surviving to fight one more time. And so, I will serve the Emperor . . . because what else is there?

[chilly creek]

Death or worse at the hands of foul Xenos/Chaos

And it's not called the grim dark future for nothing

[dense mortar]

So, would the Imperium exist without the Men of Iron?

[storm jungle]

the Imperium is terrible

so not the best choice kek

[storm jungle]

The Imperium only exists because the Emperor wanted to make it

if it didnt exist humans would just live in their own pockets of space empires

[dense mortar]

But it seems the rise of AI, which rebelled against humanity during the Age of Strife. . . gave way to the Imperiums rise and seating of power

As before this period there was no real central authority or government. Just space empires as you say.

[storm jungle]

Yeah back during the Dark Age of Technology there wasnt any central power either

OP human pocket civilizations just went off to do whatever they wanted since it was basically just Star Trek levels of utopianism

[storm jungle]

Its less the AI and more the Age of Strife in general

the emperor saw he had the biggest stick and went off to go do his thing

[dense mortar]

Was his vision a noble one, at the very least?

A united mankind

[storm jungle]

I mean

he literally killed thousands of humans and aliens

and is basically a fascist tyrant

his entire thing is "the ends justify the means" but he basically kinda doomed humanity

[dense mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-steve-carell-how-much-they-love-me-scared-gif-4265454

[storm jungle]

That and if you were just chilling in space as a human with your own empire you either join or die. You dont really get a choice.

[echo vault]

I want people to do more stuff with space marine on space marine tank battles

[near wasp]

Lotta big e hate here

[storm jungle]

[near wasp]

I must admit humanities not in a good spot rn, but thats all magnus' fault

[chilly creek]

Not just his fault

[near wasp]

If magnus didnt break the webway humanity would be safe from chaos. And the big e wouldnt be stuck on his torture chair

[storm jungle]

Okay jokes aside

its literally all Big E's fault lmao

If he told his sons about chaos and what he was doing maybe they wouldn't have sent him to a coma

[near wasp]

I do agree with that, but also didnt the emperor want a civil war to thin out the numbers of space marines and to rid the galaxy of "unworthy" primarchs

[storm jungle]

He didnt

thats just a theory the fans read into too much and its never been confirmed.

[near wasp]

Havnt read any horus heresy books yet

[storm jungle]

The Emperor was just badly written and all his actions make no sense, so people just go with the cope that hes a 4D Chess Player

so thats the gist of it

[near wasp]

Bad writing the worst thing for a setting

[storm jungle]

Yeah sadly.

He suffers from the pre-set narrative thing for 30k where he has to make decisions that will actively hinder him. The problem is the writers cannot make good excuses for why he did these pre-set decisions from the Ye olde lore, so it just ends up making him look dumb.

[near wasp]

Damn

[dense mortar]

Is Horus redemable?

Or are the Chaos Gods grasp to tight around him?

[celest dome]

Horus is dead and gone

[signal bramble]

The emperor completely and utterly obliterated his soul so the chaos gods couldn’t get it.

[dense mortar]

The grim dark is vast and complex though, could there still be a scenario where he exists?

It some form

[signal bramble]

He didn’t just kill Horus, he erased his very existence.

There was a clone of him but it wasn’t the soul of the original.

[signal bramble]

No.

Big E made sure it could never happen.

[dense mortar]

Was erasure of his existence out of love or retribution by his father?

[signal bramble]

Love in the original context.

But the heresy novels are finally getting to their duel so we don’t know if it will be recontextualized.

Horus realized he’d been duped, begged big E to forgive him, and to deny the gods his soul big E erased him from existence so they couldn’t have him.

[dense mortar]

As personal and expressive relationships go in the grim dark, that would be considered an affectionate one?

[signal bramble]

Obliterating a soul so the chaos gods can’t have it is an act of incredible mercy. He saved Horus from eternal suffering and torment.

The chaos gods don’t like the ones that fail them.

[dense mortar]

Did Chaos Gods exploit Horus because he was close with his father? Had he not been close, would they have opted to not use him? Is this a lesson for future Grim Dark inhabitants . . . never form close personal bonds?

[signal bramble]

Horus was also the most capable of the primarchs and the perfect one to lead them. That’s what it comes down to for me.

The chaos gods each wanted different primarchs for themselves also.

[dense mortar]

How do you compare Guillimans service to Big Es?

[signal bramble]

Having it be Horus did make it more personal yes, taking away big E’s champion so that was probably a part of it. But personal bonds are definitely encouraged. The Astartes chapters emphasize their bond of brotherhood pretty heavily.

[signal bramble]

Guilliman was made to be the most amazing administrator and logistics guy ever. Every primarch was made to have things they were good at so they were reliant on each other with big E unifying them.

[dense mortar]

But Guilliman now leads teh imperium

Is it better off?

[signal bramble]

I don’t think so, no.

The great crusade pre-heresy era with big E was the imperium’s golden age. The current state of affairs is just awful.

[dense mortar]

The Emperor will return at some point

[signal bramble]

Probably not.

[dense mortar]

Not even with Necron technology? Or the notable increase of psychic activity in the imperium does not indicate a possible return? The emperor himself had visions during the Horus Heresy that he would be reborn. Is it at least not worth consideration?

"when the father rises, the children shall be reborn in fire." - Prophecy from the Eldar Seers int he Last Hunt.

It would seem a base has at the very least been placed in the event they want to

[signal bramble]

Why would they use necron tech? Big E is stirring and they‘be brought back the star child in the new Dawn of Fire books. However, bringing back the emperor would upset GW’s status quo and every book for a while has hinted at the emperor coming back but they’ve actively avoided it happening.

There’s a chance some fragment of him would be reborn but someone powerful enough always has to be in the golden throne or Terra would be destroyed.

[crimson kayak]

welcome to the status quo, no major faction with tabletop models can be officially destroyed, Big E will never return and the Chaos Gods will never die

[dense mortar]

Did Big E exist during the table top? Or was the lore already there and his passing already occur?

[crimson kayak]

only way for this to happen is to have a 40k version of The End Times, but that would mean rebranding 40k and so essencially impossible

[crimson kayak]

tabletop 40k is set 10k years after Big E fight with Horus and entombment into the Golden Throne

well, 11k years now

[signal bramble]

There is a Horus heresy set of models and tabletop rules to play during that time but no official big E model or rules exist.

[crimson kayak]

now that i think about it, do we have an horus model?

[signal bramble]

Yes.

Two in fact.

[dense mortar]

Thats next level

[crimson kayak]

yep, just saw we got ascended horus on january

but yeah, considering we do have the Liber Imperium faction book it's not impossible for a 30k Emperor model to happen down the line

[signal bramble]

Tons of people would buy that just to have it.

[dense mortar]

There is no shortage of fan fiction on the return of the Emperor

[signal bramble]

I’m sure there is.

[crimson kayak]

oh yes, and 90% is not worth a single sentence

[signal bramble]

You can get third party models of big E already. Some of them are pretty cool.

https://i.etsystatic.com/31590542/r/il/26b4a5/3873309624/il_794xN.3873309624_jo72.jpg

[crimson kayak]

lol, i would just wait for someone to make a good Horus vs Emperor last moments diorama

[dense mortar]

Well, in a world consumed by its own hopeless endeavors at survival . . I will choose to love and serve the Emperor.

Do subsequent leaders of the imperium use the Emperors name as a tool to control, or are they actually loyal to the throne?

[crimson kayak]

depends

we got both

[chilly creek]

Goge Vandire says hi

[dense mortar]

Are there hardcore types? Like, "Kill on sight if your loyalty is shown to be fake"

[shadow plover]

I've yet to see a single good looking 3rd party Emperor model. I really don't even want one to be made but if they do at least then the 3rd party ones ought to die out a bit

[chilly creek]

Sure

[shadow plover]

this is the best model of the Emperor by far

[storm jungle]

look at him goooo

[storm jungle]

Yes

the Imperium is basically everything the Emperor didn't want humanity to be

hes literally a half-dead corpse and the entire populace of his empire uses him as a martyr to do the things he hates

[dense mortar]

Did he want independent free thinkers?

[storm jungle]

Yes

he was basically gonna establish a human-only Empire, defeat chaos and then just leave

At least thats what he pitches, could be lying for all we know

You can serve the Emperor if you wish but just know that he does not care about anyone anymore after being on that throne for so long

[chilly creek]

If only Big E hadn't made the Word Bearers, all would be well...

(for a certain definition of "well")

[storm jungle]

He did a little oopsie

[urban spire]

it'd suck if he did

whoops i was scrolled up

[storm jungle]

Word Bearers are great 🙏

they are assholes and they know it

[crisp heath]

I really like the theory that it was predestined half the primarchs would go bad, so he abused the ones he liked less so the Imperium could keep the cool ones

[chilly creek]

Too bad that didn't all go to plan

Like his golden throne battery going bad

[storm jungle]

thats a dumb theory because its just cope for him being stupid

[crisp heath]

As if that isn't also a stupid plan

As if the only one he actually seemed to like didn't kick the whole thing off

looking at Khan "You should've been Horus"

[open pumice]

Some sins even god cant forgive

[storm jungle]

I dont think they really care that much

[open pumice]

Fun theory, and I like it alot myself
It holds ground pretty well for justifying his dumb ass actions like not murking angron

[shadow plover]

Word Bearers are great bad guys

[storm jungle]

ıts why i like it when people hate them

or commending Kharn for beating Erebus when he literally succeeded in making him fully fall to Khorne

its great

[open pumice]

Word bearers are written well

I love their characterization

They, and their fans, should burn in hell

[crisp heath]

Or really any decision he made with Angron, like introducing himself by forcing him to watch all his family and friends get butchered

[open pumice]

Based

[storm jungle]

Thats probably the most glaring one

Mortarion is probably the best tho

[open pumice]

Angron deserved it

[storm jungle]

which is just him being a salty dumbass

"You stole my kill dad"

[crisp heath]

tbf the kill stealing was in regards to Mortarions literally abusive father who ruined his life

[storm jungle]

I mean who cares

[open pumice]

"I agreed that you could kill this guy if I didnt, and I failed to do so, and so you kept up your end of the deal, why do you hate me ;_;"

[storm jungle]

he was literally gonna die

i guess he should have just let it happen i suppose

[open pumice]

Mortarion loosing his legion to typhus was deserved

[crisp heath]

Idk I like Mortarion, some of the better HH writers do him justice and make him a sympathetic guy

[storm jungle]

Ehhhh

unless you are a DG guy hes super bland

also spends the entire lore in 30k/40k getting his ass kicked

which is a bad look

[shadow plover]

Mortarion is up there among the favourites for me

[crisp heath]

It's mentioned a couple times in the early books that he feels underappreciated and is kind of desperate for the positive reinforcement Horus feeds him, which is a nice little flourish of humanity

Honestly all the chaos primarchs (and their legions for the most part) are better when they're being humanized and it's really dumb GW doesn't incentivize writers to emphasize that

Angron and the World Eaters being empaths is brought up here or there but nothing is ever done with it except "lmao they got stabbed in the brain so now they're just angry instead of nice"

Kharn snarks, Angron chops, simple as

[open pumice]

Well theres

Not much personality you can give world eaters

[storm jungle]

World Eaters basically have only personality if you are a big fan of them

but its not much beyond "Haha funny murdermen" to "Oh they are so tragic."

[rose thorn]

I liked world eaters until I learned how AOS handle’s khrone is like 50% cooler lmao

Now they are fine

[crisp heath]

Chaos is cooler in Fantasy/AOS in general

[rose thorn]

AOS mwah delicious, full of personality and individuality

[rose thorn]

True

[crisp heath]

40k Chaos is just generic bad guy #2983, Chaos in Fantasy has actual characters

[rose thorn]

And there’s actually meaning to everything that isn’t humans and chaos

I need to read what’s it called, son of the god eater or something?

[storm jungle]

AOS khorne be like

"Theres this floating city that can kill anyone without even a proper melee fight?"

smashes it with his fist

[crisp heath]

please, GW, I will take literally any xenos victory at this point, even the kink elves

[rose thorn]

HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW WARCRY KHORNE WARBAND?!

[storm jungle]

AOS minis always win is the thing, they are just too cool looking so theres zero competition lmao

their modellers are top shelf

[shadow plover]

the new AOS chosen are fucking great

I was gifted a set of them

[rose thorn]

Besides warcry warbands that aren’t just 4 random models from an army in one unit are usually khorne lmao

[storm jungle]

AOS be like

"Hey what about kung fu shaolin vampires vs Khorne furries on all fours"

meanwhile 40k

[copper patrol]

space marines

[storm jungle]

"Have another box of marines vs xenos"

[copper patrol]

more space marines

[storm jungle]

KEK yeah

[crisp heath]

There's so many obvious choices for kickass 40k minis but GW doesn't take it the opportunity. Vashtorr looks dope but other than that nothing has made me go "holy shit that's cool", maybe the Void Dragon if I'm stretching it

[shadow plover]

I think AOS has some blunders as well, really didn't like Kragno

[copper patrol]

fair

fucken Kragnos

[rose thorn]

I think 40k leaning more into the xenos as of late (even if it’s not much) is better then more space marines

[copper patrol]

I think he suffers from being entirely new and him being supposedly important

but like

[crisp heath]

Like imagine how sick it would be to bring back Corax as this fucked up warp mutant-bird thing, but nah we're getting Guilliman and maybe the Lion and there might be rumors of another primarch for 10 years after we get him

[rose thorn]

It feels like everyone v everyone instead of humans v chaos (and other stuffed)

[copper patrol]

the new league of votann stuff I half really like and half don't

[rose thorn]

His book is good, but he is just a new god shoved on table top lmao

[copper patrol]

and it's like on the same model that its doing that on

[shadow plover]

I don't really know much about him other than the model, which I don't like

[crisp heath]

the leagues aesthetic kind of clashes with everything else in 40k imo. They don't even fit in with the Tau, but at least the Tau don't look out of place next to eldar and necrons

[copper patrol]

some of it does

[rose thorn]

So basically there use to be the dragons and the friendly Minotaur people

[copper patrol]

again some of it looks really cool to me

then kragnos was horny and killed his brother because they where trying to bang the same mare

[rose thorn]

They were friends

And then one fucker named kragnos and his friends turned super racist and murdered almost every dragon

[shadow plover]

mean

[rose thorn]

And then murdered every other Minotaur perosn

And then got trapped in a mountain

[shadow plover]

beastmen aesthetic has always fallen flat for me too so that really doesn't help that he just looks like a bigger and uglier beastman

[rose thorn]

Oh yeah the lizard people bought all of the remaining dragon eggs and stored them in their ship

[rose thorn]

I love them so much, but I’m bias because I fuckinh love them in total war

[shadow plover]

I also hate them in total war

the second least interesting faction after the empire

[rose thorn]

Empire does blow

[crisp heath]

Beastmen are dope as shit ngl

[rose thorn]

But OMg they ARE SO FUCKINH FUN, murdeirng every neighbor in a wrecking ball and popping a shrine

Taurox my beloved <3

[crisp heath]

Sometimes I feel like I'm basic for thinking Skaven are the most interesting Fantasy race, then I realize fun things are fun

[rose thorn]

SKAVEN rock too

When GW does like unqiue shit they knock it out of the park

Harlequins, skaven , 3/4ths of AOS factions,

Imperial knights

[shadow plover]

Once I have the time I'll build and paint myself a Gitz army

[ripe ravine]

waiting for dawnbringer crusades

[rose thorn]

I was so sad that there wasn’t a beast v guts box

Gits*

[shadow plover]

😔

I was saddened that pretty much the only new models for them were the wolf riders which are like the least interesting thing about them for me

[ripe ravine]

that's the problem with AOS, because 40k has all the marketing focus new units aren't as common

i'm not sure if ironjawz have gotten a new model since 1.0

[shadow plover]

there's that WH+ year 1 mini but yeah

[open pumice]

Alot of the aos models arent nearly as dated tho

[rose thorn]

I hate them because they are just an underworld model kit, and that they don’t match the rest of the models lol

[rose thorn]

They got the rat smasher model!

[dense mortar]

boy oh boy I am sure this is the setting to some wierd fan fiction

[chilly creek]

Commiserations to the Emperor for having a sword handle that looks easily snappable

[crimson kayak]

to a lot of weird fan fiction

[sleek wigeon]

nah everyone's gonna start yelling

[copper patrol]

that is a very snappable handle

[abstract zenith]

I know this is unlikely but is there any chance of CSM or Deathguard appearing in the game that'd be somehow lore friendly?

[copper patrol]

as a set piece boss they we don't directly fight

[celest dome]

They have already said that they won't be doing any SM, both as allied and enemy

[abstract zenith]

sad

[signal bramble]

A death guard marine appearing as a mastermind we never confront directly is something I could believe.

[abstract zenith]

YEAH

[dense mortar]

Comics not connected to the major events of Warhammer uni?

[celest dome]

Depend on the individual comics, even BL books aren't always tied to the major events

[dense mortar]

So no comics on early imperium stuff?

[celest dome]

Like Horus Heresy comics ? I'll have to check

[dense mortar]

Would you say the comics are good?

From a comics stand point

[celest dome]

Most of them are tied to the other lore but in the same way that most Warhammer stuff is, it's still somewhat self contained

[uneven temple]

Iirc there's one HH comic/ graphic novel, Macragge's Honour. It was ok

It was drawn by Neil Roberts, who's done a ton of covers of HH novels. But it's kind of a two way street, he's good at one shot covers but I personally found the visuals of the graphic novel to be way too dense and cluttered

[arctic talon]

There’s also a Ultramarines comic

It’s decent

[celest dome]

The one about Calgar ?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Bit bolter porny

But comics tend to be action heavy

[celest dome]

The Kid comics are somewhat fun too

[arctic talon]

GW on their way to show several children getting atomized by a necron

Truly a 40k moment

[dense mortar]

Marneus Calgar seems popular

[celest dome]

Chapter Master of the Ultramarine, so one of the 1st character most player learn about

[uneven temple]

There were two comic runs recently, a Titan comics run and a Marvel comics run, I was just pointing out the graphic novel as the one HH/ early Imperium Era one

The Titan comics were okay, I liked the marvel ones more. Calgar and the sisters of battle one were both pretty cool

[rose thorn]

I forgot how to chaplain’s work lore wise?

Are they from the chapter or are they just thrown in from the big old box of insane people

[arctic talon]

They’re religious marines

And they’re part of the chapter

[rose thorn]

How are they chosen?

[arctic talon]

A higher ranking chaplain sees a marine with a lot of zeal and a loud voice

Then they get asked if they want to join that chapters order or chaplains

[rose thorn]

Ah okay! So it’s not like tech marines where they gotta go to space college

I’m trying to think of good lore for making a custom exorcist Chaplin

[crimson kayak]

Personally I view Exorcist Chaplains as some sort of anti-thesis to chaos masters of possession

[uneven temple]

idk if they're antithetical to the idea of the exorcists - if anything they could potentially be considered redundant, maybe. it'd largely depend on how tightly they're typically integrated with inquisitors. if they are, then the inquisitors would probably largely serve the function of maintenance of the chapter's soul, but if they aren't, then having chaplains (probably more than usual, as well) would be necessary to ensure the purity of all the brothers of the chapter. i dont recall if it's specified one way or another, but even if they are, chaplains would still serve as a solid fallback, a second line of defense for the moral fortitude of any given marine

[odd palm]

Likely the chaplains are the ones who see to the chapters soul whilst the chaplains are judged by inquisitors on their effectiveness

[rose thorn]

OOOO good points! Honestly if I do wanna run a Chaplin it would be cool if I made an inquisitor in power armor and proxy them as a Chaplin

[dense mortar]

What is light, without darkness? The Grim Dark is a necessity . . . neigh, a privilege for us who serve the Emperor.

[signal bramble]

Most folks who run a chaplain on the table use the bike chaplain tbh.

[near wasp]

im glad your finally coming to realize this acolyte

[dense mortar]

I entered this universe thinking there was hope . . . however fleeting. That the dark gray clouds of the world would part and a shining light of peace of calmness would settle across the land at the edge of war. But no. . . no there is only war and survival. Acceptance of this fact is to understand what it is to live in Warhammer

[near wasp]

now if you want a funny 40k read infinite and divine

[signal bramble]

There’s definitely still moments of levity like infinite and the divine and Ciaphas Cain yeah.

[near wasp]

now be sure to check under your bed tonight for any heresy, be ever vigilant

infinite and divine is utter hilarious because tryazen is funny af

my favorite immortal god robot

[signal bramble]

The chemistry between trazyn and orikan is amazing. So well written.

[storm jungle]

They are basically an old married guy couple

its great

[outer wave]

Does anything within Nurgle's realm mate or copulate at all like the Beasts of Nurgle or the Rot Flies?

[storm jungle]

no

[copper patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer40k-no-no-40k-gif-24271093

[near wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-flamer-warhammer-krieg-40k-gif-16020089

[storm jungle]

Jokes aside daemons dont need to copulate

they are just "spawned"

especially since they are warp-stuff

[outer wave]

Thats true but considering Nurgle's whole thing of life/death/rebirth, you'd think he'd factor that into his own daemons

Like how Nurglings can become GUOs

Which could imply that a GUO could become as big as Nurgle himself some day

Or how Plaguebearers come from human souls infected with various Nurgle Disease, particularly Nurgle's Rot

[arctic talon]

Which Ironicially doesn’t make much sense

Since they’re considered never born

[outer wave]

Well yeah its daemons tbf

Nothing really makes sense for them

[signal bramble]

The new life they create usually means the bacteria and germs and diseases that grow from the hosts.

[outer wave]

Thats true but we do know that flowers in that garden do create seeds, which must mean (at least as much as I can think of while also considering daemons make no sense) the flowers do get pollinated by another plant

[signal bramble]

Says who? We’re talking warp based plants here.

They don’t function according to natural laws.

[dense mortar]

Is Vulkan worshiped

[signal bramble]

Yes.

All the loyal primarchs are worshipped as divine sons of the god emperor.

[outer wave]

Erm, says me? In all seriousness, of course, but personally I think it would be cool if the Nurglite life in the garden did follow some semblance of Biological sense

[dense mortar]

I thought he was the Emperors brother? Or am I reading that wrong?

In the sense that he was engineered along with the Emperor

[signal bramble]

The emperor created the primarchs.

They are his sons.

He used his dna, the dna of a female perpetual named Erda, and various other ingredients and processes to create 20 primarchs.

All of them were male.

And he killed number 2 and 11.

Of the remaining 18, 9 turned traitor.

[dense mortar]

So he isnt winning Father of the Year i take it

[outer wave]

He never has

[signal bramble]

Oh hell no. XD

Part of the reason why erda scattered the primarchs was because she didn’t want them to become his generals and such.

[storm jungle]

The guy is a terrible person yeah lmao

[dense mortar]

It seems, however, that Vulkan was a man of morality almost?

Compassion even

[storm jungle]

He was one of the few Primarchs that basically accepted the Imperium's current brutality

because once the crusade was over it could all be fixed

but uh yeah that didnt happen

[signal bramble]

Vulkan and the salamanders are generally kind to the average imperial citizens.

But are still merciless to their enemies.

[storm jungle]

Pretty much yeah

his adoptive community on the planet he landed taught him the right stuff

[dense mortar]

I am scrolling through all of this lore, and have run across two people that I would consider compassionate and have a sense of morality . . and one is a villain

Vulkan and Goge Vandire

[storm jungle]

Goge Vandire is just every corrupt pope IRL

just in space

hes mostly a plot tool character for the Age of Apostasy

[dense mortar]

But he used his power toimprove the life of the average citizen

[storm jungle]

No?

he literally killed people in the billions

he was then overthrown because of it

[signal bramble]

And turned the sisters of battle (before they were called that) in to his personal bodyguard/harem by lying to them.

[storm jungle]

also this

[dense mortar]

Prior to that though. He opened orphanages, schools, reformed the medical care system

[storm jungle]

Uhhh

where did you read this

[dense mortar]

I mean, he did some OKAY things on a Grim Dark scale

[storm jungle]

Upon seizing power in the Ecclesiarchy, Vandire began to systematically execute all Cardinals and Ecclesiarchy officials who opposed him. Many Cardinals attempted to escape Terra, but upon entering the Warp, a fierce Warp storm arose and destroyed the fleeing ship. Vandire declared this to be a sign of approval from the Emperor himself; he then set about replacing all vacant Cardinal seats with lackeys loyal to him.

his rule is literally called The Reign of Blood

[signal bramble]

He may have started out benevolent at the very beginning. Tyrants don’t usually start out that way after all.

[dense mortar]

Well that is certainly not good

[signal bramble]

But by the end of it his crimes overshadowed anything nice he may have done.

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Goge_Vandire

https://tenor.com/view/boondocks-read-rap-fans-exorcism-uncle-ruckus-gif-23038600

[dense mortar]

Ah okay, thank you for that. But there is loose agreement that Vulkan is what one would consider "good"?

[storm jungle]

I mean

[dense mortar]

Or as close as you can come to it

[storm jungle]

he still committed genocide on a large scale

but hes nice to humans at least

so take what you got

[signal bramble]

https://preview.redd.it/6lupd4cnmzp61.jpg?auto=webp&s=b7f9a0c218af5aae9d6941ed38d65f790c33f390

[storm jungle]

[signal bramble]

Doge Vandire.

Lewl

[storm jungle]

I was resisting admittedly

but its true

[signal bramble]

All the primarchs exterminated resistant human planets and aliens alike whether they were a danger or not. But the sallies avoid collateral damage and try to evacuate civilians if possible.

A salamander officer even punched another marine captain for killing civilians.

One not from his chapter.

[dense mortar]

Are Salamanders independent from the Space Marines?

[storm jungle]

Yeah this is the best explanation

They are all space marines

you need to read up on Chapters for that one

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chapter

[dense mortar]

Are Chapters similar to Branches of Service?.

Ah, Battlaions would be the real world equivalent

I see

thanks

[signal bramble]

All space marine chapters are independent to some greater or less degree.

They are outside the official imperial command.

[dense mortar]

So who commands them?

[signal bramble]

No one technically.

[dense mortar]

Who synergizes their efforts towards a common goal?

[signal bramble]

They do what they want.

[dense mortar]

This would seem counter productive to protecting the Imperium and humanity?

[signal bramble]

Yup but that’s how it be.

[outer wave]

Wouldn't it be the chapter master that synergizes the chapter in question, unless an Inquisitor were to pipe up?

[storm jungle]

The Imperium is a dying empire, all they do to each other is counterproductive.

[signal bramble]

He was referring to who organizes the chapters.

[outer wave]

Ahhh I see now

[dense mortar]

A dying empire that appears to limp further into the future

[storm jungle]

Nah

its dying

thats been the case for 30 years

its just not because you need to sell toys

[signal bramble]

The chapters are bound by oath and honor to fight for the imperium and humanity but exactly how they do that is largely up to them.

[dense mortar]

All in the Grim Dark is dying, is it not?

[storm jungle]

I mean yeah but the Imperium is suppose to be a cautionary tale

its why GW themselves have said you can like them but dont try to be like them

its how the chud/toxic parts of the fandom form

[signal bramble]

Their only real requirement is to fight the enemy and regularly send shipments of geneseed to forge worlds to make sure it stays pure.

Sometimes chapters will get assigned to guard specific areas but it’s usually framed as more of a request.

[dense mortar]

So there is no hierarchy for Chapters that break with Imperium expectations? No elite shocker unit that they send to displace leadership?

[signal bramble]

On paper, yeah the inquisition can tell them what to do. But if an inquisitor goes to a chapter master and starts yelling orders that inquisitor is probably going to fall out an airlock on to bolter shells.

[storm jungle]

Marines can be petitioned to do anything

its entirely down to their influence

think of them like a house of knights

if you are a nobody Chapter you cant say "no" to authorities

if you are a Founding Chapter aka one of the original 18 you can kinda do what you want

its all about prestige

[dense mortar]

Are they similar to Klingons? Where battle is a means to gaining honor for your house, or chapter in this case?

[storm jungle]

Kinda?

every chapter is different

its mostly to allow for homebrew

theres a lot of canon ones but most of them get like uh

1-2 sentences of lore

[dense mortar]

Ah, the Blue Wizards paradox of LOTR

[storm jungle]

So unless you pick a canon chapter to paint your minis with you can just go and make your own ones

[dense mortar]

The imagination runs wild

[storm jungle]

yeah

every 40k army

and I mean EVERY

is to allow for homebrew

[near wasp]

cant wait to paint ultramarines and get flamed for it

[storm jungle]

KEK

its not 2005 anymore you are fine

i think

[near wasp]

[plush mason]

is it a primarius army or has the community come to accept them?

[dense mortar]

Tell me, what would it be like for a human dragged to the realms where Daemons exist?

Daemons serve the Chaos gods obviously, but experiences may differ yes?

[mystic geyser]

@dense mortar regular human? Instant death.
But you can get a pass if you are: super powerful psychic
Or a less powerful psychic doing a vision quest.

The realm of Chaos is essentially a huge trap for souls. Slaaneshis realm is cool, like 7 circles of temptations.

Warhammer total war 3 let's you visit with your armies, it looks fantastic.

[open pumice]

With no protection
As captyn bob said instant death if your lucky
Otherwise you mutate, you go on major drug trips, you just kind abreak down mentally and physically
Tl;dr you become a spawn

[signal bramble]

Short.

[signal bramble]

Their physical body would die and their soul would get shredded.

[arctic talon]

If someone flames you for having primaris marines you wouldn’t want to play with them in the first place

Gona be honest here lol

[plush mason]

hell thats true for anyone that flames people for playing any faction said person doesnt like

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[versed ledge]

I don't get it, the moebian 6th has storm troopers that are well disciplined and trained, I mean they barely flinch under combat..how did those guys turn to Chaos?

[storm jungle]

Because war does that to people

any person can break with enough pressure

[versed ledge]

Yeah, but we're four rejects under immense pressure, then again we were never sane to begin with

[storm jungle]

Eh kinda

Its not really the same case

[arctic talon]

Because chaos corruption

It’s insidious

Ever present

[versed ledge]

Makes ya wonder how we never fell to chaos yet

[arctic talon]

And the Moebian 6th were beaten down, worn out, exhausted

[versed ledge]

And their equipment support that fact. No new uniforms, all filled holes stitches

[storm jungle]

Yeah Abnett says this in their blog post

[plush mason]

yeah

they where the best of the best

and as such they where thrown into the heaviest of fighting again and again

[storm jungle]

And they fight well. The ‘character’ of the regiment comes from the different units and specialisations. They have fierce melee troops who excel at close range and hand-to-hand. They have storm troops, snipers, flame-troopers, demolition units, heavy-weapon squads. They have everything you’d need in an armed unit if you wanted to take down a world.

So the Moebian Sixth is a regiment that’s turned traitor. They have been corrupted, by the trauma of their experiences, and by the polluting effects of the Warp. The guardians of Atoma have turned - in vengeance and hatred and spite - on the people they guard and the hive that raised them.

[versed ledge]

Karking hell....it just sucks all around then

Heroes turned villains

[storm jungle]

Pretty much another case of the Imperium biting itself on its ass yes

[plush mason]

yup

[versed ledge]

Yup

[storm jungle]

also why R&R exists

[plush mason]

yup

[versed ledge]

Agreed

[arctic talon]

The imperium is a great place to live guys

[versed ledge]

I get the regulars, the moebian 6th. But.how did so many insurgents, the irregulars came about

[arctic talon]

Just uh die horrifically

[plush mason]

even cogs must rest every now and then, given the way the imperium treats it's people i would hate to see the state of their machines' internals

[arctic talon]

There was already a chaos cult on atoma

When they began their revolt the Moebian 6th got called in

To deal with it

[versed ledge]

One massive cult then

[arctic talon]

Except they were traitor already

So uh yeah

The situation went from bad to worse

[versed ledge]

So basically the bad guys got reinforced and with better equipment

[arctic talon]

Most likely since the Moebian 6th were able to set up and disable key pdf defensive positions

Yeah

[storm jungle]

The entire reason chaos cults form on Imperial worlds is because the Imperium sucks and treats it population like slaves basically.

chaos is an equally worse alternative

but they want ascension

and escape

[plush mason]

that just shows how little high command cared really, they where not even aware the 6th had turned

[arctic talon]

Yeah this

It’s why chaos cults barely occur on places with actual good living conditions

Except you know

99.99999% of the imperium sucks

[versed ledge]

That's a huge show neglect there, how do report not even make it to command

[storm jungle]

Yeah literally every imperial world has a chaos cult

[arctic talon]

Not every

The empty ones don’t

[storm jungle]

SDKLFKLSDS

[plush mason]

lmao

[versed ledge]

Holy Terra?

[storm jungle]

Yes

[arctic talon]

It has a ton lol

[storm jungle]

Terra also has GSC cults too

KEK

[plush mason]

holy terra has every kind of cult

[arctic talon]

Lol

[versed ledge]

How has the imperium not imploded

[storm jungle]

plot

[arctic talon]

Good question

[plush mason]

plot

[storm jungle]

and toys

[arctic talon]

The answer is

[rose thorn]

Fun fact! Holy Terra is one of the, if not the largest, hotspot of cults in humanity!

[arctic talon]

Because it’s what they want

[storm jungle]

Also yeah

[arctic talon]

It’s fun to watch the imperium struggle

And implode