40k-lore-chat

[open pumice]

Eusenhorn : Xenos

Veey good book that requires little background info on 40k to get into it

[brisk beacon]

Very nice thanks 👍

[spring marlin]

Nurgle is having the most fun of any faction by a wide margin.

Seems like they're the only ones whose daemons and followers are friends, too.

[celest dome]

Slaanesh ?

[copper patrol]

Pretty much only daemons and high up/powerful being are having a good time with nurgle

[open pumice]

Wrong, orks

[timid ferry]

Dude really has a daemonette pole dancer on his shoulder?

[celest dome]

And they appreciate each others

[spring marlin]

Fair enough. Nurgle is just the one I see the most of the time with Nurglings in their models/riding around on them.

[copper patrol]

they definitely have a less "fuck you die" relationship between the followers and the daemons then the other gods

nurglings are just having a great time tho

[signal bramble]

She was a daemonette that was well known for getting too attached to mortals. When he proved himself as a gladiator and was elevated with her aid they became inseparable.

The two of them legit love each other while doing horrible awful things to other people in the name of Slaanesh.

It’s the third best love story in 40k

[timid ferry]

Name of the duo?

[signal bramble]

Syll’Esske the Vengeful Alliance.

She’s a herald of Slaanesh and he’s a daemon prince.

[crimson kayak]

Funny how Khorne and slaneesh don't mess much with your body mutation wise

[timid ferry]

Cool thanks

[timid ferry]

Uhhhhh

[crimson kayak]

I mean Cultist wise, I know Khorne daemon princes are discount bloodthirsters

[signal bramble]

Esske is one of the few times we see a daemon prince that isn’t a massive giant. But out of all the chaos gods I can see Slaanesh making a human sized daemon prince that’s beautiful and such.

I’m reading the new flesh tearers book and it me thinking about Khorne marines. Yeah I know Khorne doesn’t care from whence the blood flows but a lot of his marines still have warrior pride.

Like… if a world eater spent all his time butchering civilians I feel like the others would probably think him a coward too afraid to attack something that can fight back even if Khorne might be pleased.

[north lotus]

most sane follower of the dark gods

[mystic geyser]

Some more fancy titles for Melk. Sir Darius Melk, Holder of the Endless March and Warden of the Crux Mortem.

[signal bramble]

New card. :0

Farsight vs ethereal?

[north lotus]

Worse, blue man group

[echo vault]

What if hadron does have high heels but they have built in macrostubbers so if she stepped on your balls your testicles are getting filled with 2.2 lbs of monomolecular razor sharp shards of lead

[open pumice]

Yes please

[echo vault]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-ayasan-gif-24417465

[plush mason]

of all the things to see when i first open this channel :/

[open pumice]

<3

[arctic talon]

[echo vault]

I want a weapon where a full team of ogryn just carry around a sky talon battery and just obliterate anything in their path, just like Looney tunes four of them just holding the thing up

[upbeat dagger]

so this might be heresy

who is Bramhs

[dusk patrol]

Shipmistress

[upbeat dagger]

what dat

[open pumice]

like a captain of a ship

[upbeat dagger]

ah

[crisp badger]

So I'm starting into the infinite and divine right

Is there a reason alot of fully awake necrons seem to have cyber ADHD?

[celest dome]

That's just those 2 Necrons

[storm jungle]

Nah, some sentient necrons are entirely normal. The Great Sleep™️ has affected some in different ways.

[crisp badger]

I'm counting 4 so far lol

[storm jungle]

That's just characters created for the sake of the plot.

Its a big galaxy, not everyone is gonna be senile

[crisp badger]

ah no I meant 4 adhd necrons

[signal bramble]

Don’t question. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. That book is one of the best and a sheer delight from beginning to end.

[echo vault]

What if the necrontyr didn't actually have cancer it was just autism

[celest dome]

Could have both

[signal bramble]

Autism doesn’t cause tumors.

[echo vault]

That's what you think but for the necrontyr they had it differently

It's what makes them not just ancient humans from halo

[near wasp]

The great sleep messed with the necrons alot. Some didnt survive some were affected by viruses and logic plagues and other not great things. Trayzen and orikan are both particularly strange necrons as well. 60million years is a long time for anything to be left alone.

[rose thorn]

I know it’s never gonna happen but I hope we get a pure inquisition army

It’s probably just hero hammer buffing little fuckers like acolytes and death cult

But still

[echo vault]

Can space marines get verbal or physical tics, like feet tapping, light leg or arm shaking and stuff like that, just because I wanna describe the body language of a renegade space marine commander being stoic yet tense and visibly uncomfortable at times

[copper patrol]

I can't think of any examples but I don't see why not

[near wasp]

Im sure they do

"The minotaurs sat ramrod striaght with there fists clenched as if perpetually resisting the onset of battle rage" -watchers of the thone regents shadow

I was just listening to the audio book and this quote came up.

[signal bramble]

I’m reading the new flesh tearers novel and they are constantly repressing rage and the urge to kill. So they’re constantly clenching and unclenching fists, gritting teeth, etc. they also have a lot of issues where their fangs instinctively extend which cuts in to their gums and lips.

[echo vault]

ok swag

thanks guys

[storm jungle]

Its basically a case where the ""lore"" says Marines cannot feel anything and are meat-machine killers.

But any BL author sees this and is like

"I cant really work with this. Gonna tweak them to feel stuff."

[copper patrol]

pretty much

who wants to read a story about that

like

"and then the space marine killed the xenos and didn't feel anything abotu the brothers that died around him"

[storm jungle]

Yeah it gets extremely dull

[open pumice]

Thise lore is quite dated, and has been sidelined

[storm jungle]

Its really not dated and still a thing in most official material.

But the sidelining has been happening since forever though yes

[open pumice]

Sort of

Like

Even in BL novels

Theyre still aloof to their emotions

[storm jungle]

As said above its mostly just inconsistent because nobody wants to write about emotionless brick walls

[open pumice]

I.e., when a battle brother dies they may greive, but move in pretty fast

Like if you interpwret it litteraly, space marines shouldnt feel shit snd should basically be automata

But in bl novels and stuff, theyre just emotionally aloof

Not even battle hardened, they just witness atrocities and cary on withoit giving a damn, they dont care for the emotional impkications of detah and loss and all tjat because its all they kniw

[echo vault]

I mean the black templars essentially farm rage and zealotry by having marines be paired up with brothers they like to fight with

And the whole neophytes fighting along with initiates and seeking revenge when one of them dies

[dry epoch]

They're essentially in possession of arrested development. They don't understand emotions because they're not expected to ever have to deal with them.

[slender orchid]

When mods write lore that isn't in codexes. Or has ever been the official by line. Going back to the very first SM book ever in the 80s.

Marines "know no fear". Never have been emotionless. Emotionally stunted being basically child soldiers sure, but not emotionless.

[compact hill]

is it true that people who know of the grey knight's existence gets killed to prevent the knowledge of chaos from spreading?

[arctic talon]

It Depends

[compact hill]

im just asking because I thought the imperium was in an all out war so what "secret" of daemonic presence is there

[arctic talon]

The grey knights also showed up on terra in a victory parade with guilliman so

Knowing they exist doesn’t matter

They’re just silver space marines

To the average civilian

But daemonic taint and being in the same warzone as them may led to you getting killed

[compact hill]

were there grey knights on cadia

[arctic talon]

They were in the cadian system

But I don’t think any were on Cadia itself when it fell

Mostly since they were en route then the great rift opened

They managed to save the hive world xersia

[compact hill]

so i assume if cadia didnt get a fortress thrown into it, the grey knights couldve came and killed the surviving humans?

[arctic talon]

No

Or rather it depends

They don't kill everyone

if they suspect daemonic taint on you they'll kill you

Or purge your memories

depends on how valuble you are

They didn't kill a shit ton of people on Xersia

despite it having a massive daemonic incursion

[compact hill]

do they go in depth on how the inspections are done or do the knights have a 6th sense for corruption

[arctic talon]

We don't know how they sense corruption

but at the very least you're getting mindwiped if you run into a massive daemonic incursion

all but the highest ranking people have it happen

[compact hill]

Ive also got another question

Arent all space marines fighting daemons? What makes the grey knighhts so special if theyre demon hunters

[arctic talon]

Grey Knights are really really good at fighting daemons

their gear is purpose built for said role

as is their armor

also they're all psykers which lets them "easily" take care of lesser daemons

[compact hill]

so i guess they have massive beef with world eaters

[arctic talon]

the average marine has no way of stopping a blood letter from impaling him and instantly killing him

but the psychic protection grey knights have can stop that

A Daemons weapons pretty much ignore marine armor

[compact hill]

space marines cant fight lesser demons?

[arctic talon]

I mean

They can

but one mess up and theyre done

Daemons are fast, lethal and durable

how they're represented on the tabletop and in games

is not in line with their lore

a bloodletter or daemonette or plague bearer is gona make mince meat out of a marine

Daemons fucking suck to fight

[compact hill]

hhere I thought space marines stood a better chance against lesser demons

[arctic talon]

I mean

they do compared to a normal human

they're faster, stronger have better perception and more resiliant to the horrors that daemons bring with them

but daemonic weapons don't care about your ceramite

They'll cut right through them like butter

[compact hill]

so what makes the grey knight gear better suitable? prayers?

[arctic talon]

Tons of runes and inscriptions

psychic connections

all their gear is designed to work with their psychic powers

[compact hill]

if grey knights are specialized for demon hunting, do they lack with the other adversaries compared to the rest of the chapters?

[arctic talon]

I mean they're pretty good at killing everything

but they specialize against chaos

and daemons

they suffer against blanks

since they're all psykers

[compact hill]

im sure they are im just curious if their specialization makes thhe other chapters better suited for the other enemies

[arctic talon]

not really

Grey Knights do just fine against the normal enemies Space marine chapters face

Nids might be an issue

due to the shadow in the warp

[compact hill]

shadow?

[arctic talon]

Big shadow in the warp due to all the nids present that makes psykers unable to properly use their powers

It also cuts off astropaths

[compact hill]

wow thats a lot of nids

[arctic talon]

I mean yeah

[compact hill]

what faction do blanks belong to

[arctic talon]

usually the imperium lol

[compact hill]

well that isnt so bad

[arctic talon]

They prolly would have troubles with the harlequins

seeing as the clowns pretty much kill everyone with ease

but they usually share a goal

so those sort of conflicts never pop up

[storm jungle]

being a Blank is also not so much different from real life

so you know

[compact hill]

imperium and aeldar sharing goals?

[arctic talon]

Yes

its called killing Chaos

The Grey Knights would most the imperium burn if it meant wiping out chaos

the Grey Knights don't fight xenos unless they conflict with their current goal or they need to do something on a Xenos planet and they aren't let on it willingly

the same way the Custodes don't care if the Imperium falls as long as the Emperor stays alive

[compact hill]

they didnt do a good job

[arctic talon]

lol

[compact hill]

who are the loyalist primarchs still alive asides G-Man himself

[arctic talon]

Corax, Khan, Russ, Lion

Dorn is a maybe

Khan is also a maybe but less of one

[compact hill]

I love khan for his theme

space mongol

[compact hill]

is it true that dark angels chapter went chaos? or a chunk of it?

[arctic talon]

during the heresy yeah

a large chunk went traitor

and a chunk of that went chaos

but they were a legion back then

[compact hill]

im surprised the chapter didnt get wiped for that

[arctic talon]

I mean

why would they lol

it was during the Horus Heresy

almost half the white scars went traitor as well

[compact hill]

idk i thought it would be as punishment for letting it happen

[arctic talon]

Also the fact pretty much no one knows lol

and trying to get rid of a first founding chapter

ends in people "disappearing(tortured to death)"

Second and first founding chapters pretty much can't be touched

due to how long they've stayed loyal + the fact they're so old

[compact hill]

did any significant number of smurfs turn traitor?

[arctic talon]

not really

There were some that went traitor

during the heresy

post heresy most chapters that go traitor are made of ultramarine genestock lol

So I guess yes

[compact hill]

i dont read the books even though I should since I like 40k lore but where is the story at this point? The middle of G-mans crusade?

[arctic talon]

idfk

If you want a bunch of just lore

the rule books

if you want a bunch of stories and stuff prolly start with something like Eisenhorn

or Gaunts Ghosts

if you want imperium stuff

[compact hill]

gotcha

tyvm

[arctic talon]

for Necron stuff Infinite and the divine, and twice dead king duology

[near wasp]

Yeah i think the crusade is still being written

I know arks of omen is coming out

[compact hill]

dope thanks for letting me know

[signal bramble]

It was also difficult for any marine to turn against their primarch. Space marines are not mindless slaves or anything like that but we do know they had some sort biological inclination to obey their specific gene-father Primarch. So while I'm sure some turned traitor I imagine they weren't so inclined to turn against Bobby G.

[signal bramble]

Currently, Indomitus is still going on but is getting bogged down in a significant number of warzones for various reasons.

Dante, the Chapter Master of the BA, is doing his best to consolidate everything on the other side of the rift but it is very difficult given their current situation.

[signal bramble]

You're forgetting to mention the DA did their best to cover it up also.

[kind moon]

NOTHING happened on caliban

[arctic talon]

Pretty much every loyalist legion had marines go traitor

[crisp moon]

The funny thing is no, they wouldn't have been punished for that at the time, but in the 10,000 years that followed...

Every time the DAs quit a war to go chase the fallen leading to billions of deaths and countless lost worlds, or murdered imperials for seeing or hearing something they shouldn't have, or basically not even following the codex astartes and functioning as basically a whole legion (big no no). All the secrecy and paranoia now, would almost certainly get the chapter and all its successors censured by the inquisition which is why they can't stop doing it.

[crisp moon]

Chaos raptors have noticable ticks and kinda move their heads like birds

also khornate berzerkers do it too because blood and skulls

I remember both in the night lords omnibus

[echo vault]

Thanks

I may be thinking more casual like a space marine naval expert tapping his fingers on the chair

[final solar]

This type of characterization was a lot of fun to read

[final solar]

Based on the writing in the Horus Heresy, i feel this would be something that could occur but reflected upon.

[echo vault]

The characterization I have for the person I'm improving on for the heresubie legit a kleptomaniac but w space marine taking every predator and burned out tank on a battlefield

Just for the sake of taking them and reusing them for their army

[final solar]

Typical blood angel behavior

though what you are describing is a common mentality found amongst traitor and renegade legions, seeing how they kind of have to out necessity.

[echo vault]

They're emperor's children so close

[final solar]

Could also be the quirk of a devout tech marine, who can't let prized manifestations of the Omnissiah wither and decay.

[final solar]

Is this a homebrew?

[echo vault]

Sunkillers which I describe as more renegade than traitors so 50/50

Sun killers are an EC unit

[crisp moon]

Emperor's Children would probably try to honor duel the predator tanks then stick their junk in the intake

[final solar]

Would fall in line with the character quirks of Emperor's Children geneseed

if more renegade than chaos i mean

simply out of a need to not see such machines of war suffer such an imperfect state of being.

[echo vault]

I'm imagining them killing the entire crew of space marine vehicles to steal them even their allies so word bearers and night lords tanks are ripe for the taking

[crisp moon]

night lords don't use tanks much tbf

iron warriors maybe

[signal bramble]

EC were my favorite pre heresy legion. Once they get their own codex I’ll probably collect them.

[final solar]

They'd prolly get off on the thrill of stealing from other space marines

[echo vault]

Well even in the FW black book about isstvaan they describe iron warriors typhon tanks killing word bearers because they were in their firing lines

[crisp moon]

HAVE FAITH WORD BEARER

[final solar]

Kind of how Fulgrim's pov is in his book of the HH, when he describes how much he enjoys the various sensations of being in a heated argument with Horus.

Kind of like a juiced up version of spoiled rich teenagers committing petty theft for the thrill of it.

[crisp moon]

I love the word bearers but the IVth legion "god is cringe" iron warriors are so memable

[final solar]

Just as long as actual lore isn't conflated with meme lore

[crisp moon]

absolutely

which in the iron warriors case, is kinda true?

[echo vault]

L

[final solar]

I know i'm gonna sound grumpy for this, but one of the annoying parts of 40k having so many secondary fans (people that enjoy 40k from a distance from the hobby/lore) that take every meme at face value instead of actually learning the lore.

[crisp moon]

Majorkill

yes absolutely

[final solar]

i'd say he's a good entryway into the hobby, but the more you learn about the lore for yourself, you kind of lose interest in his take on it.

[crisp moon]

People shitting on Angron saying he needed to be aborted despite him having probs the most tragic arc in all of 40k need to be slapped

[final solar]

You know who does a good job of presenting the lore on youtube? The Rememberancer.

Hugely underrated channel.

[echo vault]

I kinda love the absolute lack of care about their most zealous members so I wanna keep doing that

[crisp moon]

I like Oculus Imperia and Adric for more humor

[echo vault]

When majorkill is cringe he's super cringe but when he's good HE'S GOOD

Like holy shit he knows how to do something

When he likes it

[final solar]

So when he talks about space marines vs when he talks about eldar?

[signal bramble]

I like Luetin.

[final solar]

I miss Lorehammer

was a great podcast

for not only humor but also deep dives and interesting/obscure lore.

[crisp moon]

I already mentioned them but I still really like adeptus ridiculous

not only because of the humor

but like,

they can talk about something and actually make it interesting and dope

[final solar]

I just get a little quirked when they get stuff wrong

and how simplified they make a lot of topics

but i get that it's not for me necessarily

[crisp moon]

I would never have cared about random imperial knight houses or the dark eldar or guard regiments until i watched them tbh.

The banter is chill

[final solar]

hot take: the best part of Ad Ridiculous is Shy's editing of the videos

[final solar]

that was me with Lorehammer

Except they did it years before Adeptus Ridiculous

except they didnt go Youtube

[crisp moon]

I couldn't imagine watching without them lmao

[final solar]

I just got a bit tired of the in-jokes sometimes taking up too much of the talking.

[crisp moon]

I can see them trying to stay on topic sometimes then someone mentions the sus-an membrane or imperial battleship crewmates and...

[final solar]

I think the issue i have is just that they don't present anything new to me.

So usually when topics crop up, i hear their talk on it and in the back of my head i'm like "you forgot about this detail, or this aspect, you mispresented this" etc

but i get that they're a great entry point for people into the lore

I just hope they're not always taken at face value

which kind of rounds it all back to my original point

it's so easy for popular content creators to misrepresent 40k

[echo vault]

Depends, when he is passionate about the topic he really nails it

[crisp moon]

good point

[final solar]

Yeah, i was kind of being faceitous.

[crisp moon]

a lot of the time they'd just assume someone knows the little things or deems stuff to be not very important and ignore something and the grizzled vets go nuts

but I guess its the same with any fanbase

[echo vault]

I'm at a basketball game while way too intoxicated I have no sense of irony

[final solar]

Yeah i just noticed a lot of stuff they've said/made up for jokes be repeated by other people in discussions etc. later as fact.

[echo vault]

Thinking about balls

[crisp moon]

Bricky loves the night lords but I remember he kept mistaking Nostramo as inspired by the planet from aliens once

when it's more of a joseph konrad/nostradamus referance

tiny minor stupid fact but people got a bit miffed lol

[final solar]

Yah, that irked me too

[crisp moon]

as a night lords fan that hit me hard

[echo vault]

Arch the worst though? Specially with him talking about gnoblars like that

[final solar]

I only started getting annoyed once i became aware of how often that happens

Don't think i've ever seen a video of Arch

[echo vault]

Disrespect the knoblsrs you're getting owned

[final solar]

is he one of those youtubers that just read off of the wiki?

[echo vault]

I can't post the clip here but he calls the gnoblars house n words

[final solar]

lolwut

[echo vault]

Yeah seriously

[final solar]

don't think it's gnoblars he offended with that lol

[echo vault]

Just search arch gnoblars

You'll hear a guy doing a fake British accent saying house n words

[crisp moon]

I disliked Arch even before I knew about his politics honestly. His style doesn't seem that unique compared to others in the space anyway and his politics are..

[final solar]

for some reason this cracked me up, like how you'll have people say Did you know in 1985 a terrible hurricane hit a meat packing plant causing it to rain meat for days. Don't believe me? Just google "meat spin"

[echo vault]

I mean wasn't it that he only got popular because he was the only YouTuber for it

[crisp moon]

yeah apperantly

before my time

[echo vault]

Yes

[crisp moon]

now you got guys like leutin, oculus, the rememberancer etc that do what he did minus the horrible racism

[echo vault]

I watched Warhammer stuff around 2016 when the genestwaler cults were first cumming out

Coming out

NO, bad misspelling

[final solar]

Hey now, The Rememberancer deserves to be held in his own category. The amount of presentation that dude puts into his vids is great.

[crisp moon]

oculus too

that man can talk

[echo vault]

I love occulus imperias videos on the legion tactics and his vraks series

His vraks series is so good

[final solar]

When he was doing an admech series on various imperium tech, he did a whole voice changer and his scripts are always in first person from the perspective of an actual historian in the 40k

his videos are so endearing.

[final solar]

Ah, that's why that name was familiar to me

[echo vault]

I hate to sound uncultured but what was his credits in TTS?

[final solar]

i don't watch a lot of warhammer youtube stuff anymore outside of physical hobby stuff.

[crisp moon]

The whole idea of being an imperial historian cataloguing history on terra thousands of years after the fact is so dope

[echo vault]

Yeah he's a perfect fit

[final solar]

this is why every time the rememberancer says "His Imperium" instead of "the imperium of man" i smile.

[compact hill]

And g-man himself can’t force them to follow the codex?

[open pumice]

Not unless he wants to hang directly over their should 24/7

[compact hill]

fair

[open pumice]

They also already hate him

they thought he was coming to wipe them out when he was bringing primaris reinforcements

[compact hill]

so they have seniority privileges to not get wiped?

[open pumice]

yeah

none of the og 9 legions ever really face censure

[compact hill]

i wonder if the emperor wouldve given them the thunder warrior special if he hadnt gotten throne-ridden and had the primaris

[open pumice]

the legions, or the dark angels specifically?

[compact hill]

dark angels

[open pumice]

i mean

probably not

if he hadn't gotten throne ridden, luther would have never been able to turn as effectively

even if he did

secrecy amongst the legions wasnt exactly unheard of

like

why would he wipe them out in the first place

For hunting their bretheren who turned to chaos?
Or for not sharing with the world that chaos is a thing?

he would support those actions

@compact hill theres a good argument to say that all the space marines were gonna go the rout of the thunder warriors, or atleast the more problematic ones

but as far as blood angels specifically, they really dont have much going on

[compact hill]

hm that makes more sense then wiping them

[crisp moon]

first founding legions are kinda in a league of their own

like the inquisition tried to censure the space wolves and got bodied

it was a whole thing

Dark Angels successors are like 15% of all space marines. Trying to go after them is a no go

[odd palm]

The impression I got was less that they got bodied and more that Bjorn told everyone to chill

[crisp moon]

I guess? The Inquisition lost an assload of assets and hundreds of veteran grey knights died which is kinda big deal

space wolves didn't come out great either tho of course

[compact hill]

inq caused GK to fight wolves?

[odd palm]

Mhm

[crisp moon]

grey knights are part of the inquisition

[odd palm]

iirc, the dark angels got involved on the inq side

[compact hill]

what a waste of space marines

[crisp moon]

they're their own personal chapter, some others do that too like the red scorpions I think

[odd palm]

Red hunters I think is what you mean

[crisp moon]

it was a stupid war all because the wolves wanted to save a couple refugees and the inquisition genocided every single planet the ships stopped at

[compact hill]

what did the inq do that

[crisp moon]

chaos

[compact hill]

sad

[odd palm]

Space Marines summed up in a nutshell tbh. The main reason they beef is because of petty ego

[crisp moon]

Night Lords have a bad habit of killing their veterans in honor duels

"I wanna lead the claw" pulls out plasma pistol

[odd palm]

Night Lords, World Eaters. Likely some others that don't come to mind immediately

[crisp moon]

All the murder hobo ones

[odd palm]

True

[open pumice]

WE tend to actually obey structure of command outside of battle

NL are a case of

[crisp moon]

I thought the Sanguinius was terrified that they were going to be deleted like the lost primarchs because of their mutations

[open pumice]

I meant dark angels

oop

[crisp moon]

There's a world eater that is very polite and even knocks before entering buildings in the gaunts ghost books

one of the blood pact guys

Honestly outside the nails they are pretty stable. They aren't murdering random ship crew causing the reactors to go critical after all you still gotta go from point a to b for more blood and skulls

[open pumice]

bet yes, aside form my typo, this be tru

[open pumice]

NL are a case of
What if we took a bunch of criminals and gave them super powers, i'm sure they'll be totally stable and absolutely reasonable

[crisp moon]

It's even worse

they took a bunch of young boys who were murderers and rapists before the age of like, 10

[open pumice]

I am aware lol

[crisp moon]

gave them power armor, weapons, immortality and were like "go nuts lol"

[open pumice]

man

curze was just

awful

and yet

[crisp moon]

he just needed a hug

[open pumice]

he's still more likable than the fucking lion

[open pumice]

he needed schitzo meds

[crisp moon]

he'd have been a great lawyer in another life

[open pumice]

I despise the lion

[crisp moon]

is he really that bad I hear that he's both a chad but also painful to read

[open pumice]

he's a mary sue

complete with the compeltely missing personality

[crisp moon]

oh so like guilliman

[open pumice]

no

guilliman has a character

[crisp moon]

[open pumice]

a personality

he's likable

[crisp moon]

I'm a word bearers player so we'll have to disagree on that one..

[open pumice]

You could sit down and have a beer with guilliman and it wouldn't just be awkward silence witha brick wall

[open pumice]

your opinion is invlid

Monarchia was justified

anyway

[crisp moon]

thats why yo calth dead that's why yo primarch a bean counter can't pray to the dark gods!

[open pumice]

the lion is completely devoid of personality and story

[open pumice]

Best bean counter in the entire damn galaxy i'll have you know

[crisp moon]

Bobby G: Maybe horus should have killed us all

I think he actually said that lmao

[open pumice]

the only person in his legion less interesting than the lion, is corswain, whos personality is the lion jr

[open pumice]

he did

it's a great quote

[crisp moon]

I really like the idea of Corswain but he doesn't seem to do that much

[open pumice]

and then he backtracks it immediatly and tries to give himself hope

[open pumice]

not until SoT

[crisp moon]

He's this super badass rising star duelist who even guilliman likes but...so?

Maybe he'll get more in the inevitable scouring series post siege of terra

[open pumice]

He's like the 3rd best martial artist in the legiones astartes

[crisp moon]

maybe he becomes a chapter master idk

[open pumice]

its just that the other two infront of him are

much more interesting characters

and they don't tell you that they're good every time theyre on screen before getting their asses beat

[crisp moon]

After *Sigismund * and JAGO SEVATARION FIRST CAPTAIN OF THE 8TH LEGION PRINCE OF CROWS AND COMMANDER OF THE ATRAMENTAR

[odd palm]

Also, Sevatar and Sigismund are kind of set up as unbeatable in 1st and 2nd place

Unless plot demands they trip up

[open pumice]

correct

but

the important part

[crisp moon]

Sevatar: I'm a better duelist
Also Sevatar: This is fight is lame we've been going at it for 8 hours bonk

[open pumice]

is sigismund isn't introduced as the best martial combatant in the legiones astartes

he's introduced being the best martial combatant in the legiones astartes

that's the important distinction

[odd palm]

Not straight away as he crops up in the 1st HH book, but early on

[open pumice]

we actually get to see sigismund be the badass fairly early on in his story

we only ever hear that corswain is good

and then he looses like

every important duel

[crisp moon]

helps that he gets his own book to flesh him out and actually show him doing cool shit too

[open pumice]

yeah, but even before sigismund was his own book

[crisp moon]

fair

[open pumice]

the first perspectives f sigismund are of him being a badass

[odd palm]

Yeah Sigismunds duels can be summed up as he losses for 90% of the fight until he wins by happen chance, last second

[open pumice]

factually incorrect?

[crisp moon]

I have a hate boner for Sigismund because he fought sev but also I tried printing a sigismund model and it went horribly

[open pumice]

lmao

Sigismund is just cool

Sevatar is also actually cool

Sevatar has a personality

[odd palm]

Sig's alright

[open pumice]

Sevatar is also not just

look at this abdass

[crisp moon]

He's just edge incarnate which is why the night lords are cool in the first place

[open pumice]

now i'm going to beat him up

[open pumice]

correct, but unlike the weird weeb in his moms basement, he actually has the skill to back himself up, which is badass

[crisp moon]

helps that he was written by ADB who can make the lamest shit in the setting actually interesting

[open pumice]

Yeah

ADB and Chris Wraight carried the heresy

[odd palm]

As long as neither of you two are Sharrowkyn fanboys, we good

[open pumice]

If you haven't read it: scars

[crisp moon]

I was gonna say

sadly its OOP

could always read it online but..

[open pumice]

Also

Valdor

fucking

loved that story

[crisp moon]

The guy who killed Lucius TWICE and noscoped fulgrim with a sniper rifle on the same day?

[open pumice]

I don't know shit about ravenguard characters

[odd palm]

Yup

[open pumice]

I mean fulgrim makes it easy

[odd palm]

Also it's best you don't know him

[arctic talon]

[crisp moon]

aim for the dude who never ever wears a helmet

fair enough

[odd palm]

So every primarch save Alpharius?

[open pumice]

it's hard not to aim for him

[arctic talon]

Sigusmends magical sword

[open pumice]

Rag on him all you like

[arctic talon]

I’m not

[open pumice]

sigismunds duel between him and Kharn was rad

[arctic talon]

It’s just a magical sword that talks to him

[crisp moon]

apperantly most of them actually do have helmets they're just rarely described

[arctic talon]

Lol

[crisp moon]

vulkan has a dragon helmet

which is dope

[arctic talon]

They’re normally wearing helmets in battle yeah

[open pumice]

helmets aren't heroic

so they don't get models

[arctic talon]

Guilliman on calth wasn’t wearing a helmet

[crisp moon]

too bad he spent the entire heresy locked in curze's funny maze

[odd palm]

Yeah, all have them, few wear them because they often don't need to. Iron Halos, reaction time and bodyguards do the trick

[arctic talon]

Because he got fucking launched into the vacuum of space lol

Also Lion tends to wear his helmet

Perturabo

[crisp moon]

started punching word bearers heads off in space without a helmet

i'm glad that was the cover art for know no fear

[arctic talon]

But the primarchs do wear their helmets

It’s just never mentioned because 1

It isn’t cool

[odd palm]

Yeah, Corax wore it on Istvaan

[crisp moon]

the lion's model has a dope helmet tbf

[arctic talon]

And 2 it doesn’t make for good minis

Yeah all the helmets for the primarchs are good

Tbh

[open pumice]

The lions model is like france
shit for just being the lion, or france

[crisp moon]

idk maybe i'm a simp for 30k dark angels

black with death iconography goes harder then forest green but maybe thats just me

[odd palm]

That's fair

[open pumice]

their color scheme is cool

they just

have no identity

[odd palm]

But they become one of many black clad space marines XD

[crisp moon]

"we're seekrit look at all these seekrits"

"did we mention we keep secrets?"

[open pumice]

they have the personality of printer paper

even in horus heresy

[arctic talon]

The blade

[crisp moon]

tell me about it

I have a DA omnibus

[arctic talon]

The most intresting dark angel is prolly Saphion

[crisp moon]

they're so cool but...dammit man they gotta do something other then be mad about the fallen and have a lot of secrets

[arctic talon]

Mostly since it’s fun seeing him try to keep Asmodai under control

Since Asmodai is a deranged psychopath

[open pumice]

theyre like france
only good in theory

I unironically like the brettonians more than I like DA

[crisp moon]

now thats a hot take

[odd palm]

They have more personality post heresy. Granted it revolves around the fallen most of the time.
But it's better than being the 30k equiv of wards UMs in terms of uniqueness as well as being a scuffed attempt at being AL in regards to secrecy

[arctic talon]

Lol

Yeah they’re fine in 40k

If a bit

[crisp moon]

i think DA's just got some of the worst 30k writers

[arctic talon]

Repetitive

[crisp moon]

like salamander

[arctic talon]

Their characters are fine in 40k

As well tbh

[odd palm]

Indeed

[open pumice]

I don't much care for them in 40k

[arctic talon]

Azreal has some decent writing

[crisp moon]

people tend to like shitty legions like the word bearers and night lords and world eaters because they had such awesome books

[arctic talon]

They’re just

Bland

[open pumice]

but thats ebcause i like my legions to focus on somehting other than FALLENFALLENFALLENFALLEN

[arctic talon]

Which is fine

[odd palm]

Nah word bearers are decent

[crisp moon]

on tabletop?

[odd palm]

No clue

[open pumice]

You belong in the brettonian pigstye

[arctic talon]

In 40k they’re fine

[crisp moon]

I thought they were the least played legion

[arctic talon]

On the tabletop

[crisp moon]

word bearers are dope but in game I only hear them being meh

[arctic talon]

But they pale in comparison to Creations of Bile and Emperors Children

They’re above average

The CSM codex in general is very strong

[odd palm]

insult doesn't land, I don't even know brettonian lore because it's so boring

[crisp moon]

probs my favorite or second favorite legion because they have such good writing and characters

[arctic talon]

Idk about 30k

[crisp moon]

"soundcloud rapper fucks entire galaxy"

[open pumice]

tl;dr france

[arctic talon]

Except worse

If you’re a peasant

[crisp moon]

never touched brettonia in total war

it just feels so easy to get destroyed by a bunch of skeletons with sticks since their roster in 80% CAV IN A GAME WHERE EVERY ARMY IS 80% SPEARS

[odd palm]

What ruins France are the French, hate to see it

[open pumice]

everyone's a peasent, its france

[arctic talon]

Top 0.01% isn’t

[open pumice]

they don't even fallow giggachad von massivecock himself

KALR FUCKING FRANZ

[odd palm]

Bruh, when Harakoni novel?
GW gib lore

[crisp moon]

unfortunately non SM human factions and non cadian guardsmen are criminally underwritten by GW

wait are Cadians the ultramarines of the imperial guard? wack

[open pumice]

Simply, both factions are too based

[odd palm]

[open pumice]

You know who is entirely infallable though

the blood angels

gotta love souped up space vamprie wizards

[crisp moon]

weird way to spell night lords

Decimus trilogy WHEN

[open pumice]

must be a regional dialect for "red and gold paint schemes"

[crisp moon]

I'M NOT DONE BABYY GIVE ME SOME SKIN

[open pumice]

if NL are so cool

why did their primarch actually just give up

more importantly

give up to the fucking lion of all people

[crisp moon]

I mean thats what makes them so cool

[open pumice]

ok

unironically

[crisp moon]

They're the ultimate super nihilists and you get to see them dealing with the implications of that, how they come to terms with what they are and what they're set to do with our new boi

[open pumice]

fuckin

Curze did more to save terra than the lion did

[open pumice]

the biggest problem curze had was he though he couldn't change the future

and so eh never bothered trying, in the slightest, to make anyones life better

[crisp moon]

the whole idea of future seeing in 40k is that half the time the future one sees IS the future caused by their actions trying to prevent it and stuff

[open pumice]

he's pretty much the onlky primarch other than angron who actually degraded the lives of those he interacted ith

[open pumice]

on a meta level yes

but curze wouldnt be aware of the meta context to forsight in 40k

we know how characters view forsight in 40k

we see the emperor explain it to us pretty directly in master of mankind

[open pumice]

this is to say, they can see a destination, but not necisarily the road that leads to it

[crisp moon]

@open pumice

• There's this one story where evil space batman is chasing some murderer through the streets of Nostramo and he gets a vision where the kid surrenders to him and they become great friends and allies and he changes Konrad's life and the planet for the better, Curze is even at his bedside as he dies peacefully in bed....

• He also gets a dream where the kid is actually trying to trick him, he fakes a surrender, stabs curze and escapes to tell everyone that he escaped and wounded the night haunter. People stop fearing curze and the planet goes to shit again.

Konrad kills the kid to prevent the second future from happening. Only to realize the knife had been thrown away

Future is fucky in 40k

I can imagine he just stopped trying to change things because he thought the alternatives would be worse? We'll never know

[open pumice]

This is a good exmaple of actually exactly how future sight works, and why curze futures wrong

he;s givend estinations, polar opposites of eachother

[crisp moon]

yeah

[open pumice]

but he can't see the actions that lead to either

[crisp moon]

like horus dreaming of people worshipping the emperor

[open pumice]

exactly

[crisp moon]

when in reality HE PUT HIM THERE

[open pumice]

from a meta context

we can see that this is poetic endings to stories

but in universe, it would be nigh impossible for characters to really get that meta context

they may see that when they try to prevet a future, it happens

but in this instance, curze did prevent both futures he saw entirely

[crisp moon]

yea

[open pumice]

thus, bashing his idea of the future being unchangable

[crisp moon]

As I said earlier: Ultimate edgelord nihilists

Atheists in a world were Gods and daemons are a tangible physical things. All around sad boys

[open pumice]

I love how curze is written in these scenes

Because it really gives us a good look into the mind of someone who has taken the wrogn route to nihilism

[crisp moon]

Talos says that Curze was the only being in the galaxy who truly hated his own existance

[open pumice]

Curze is to me, an actual IRL nihilist, an inspiration of what I actively try to avoid

[crisp moon]

he got too far into his own head, stared into the abyss, consumed by his own thoughts etc

just a really nuanced and tragic figure

[open pumice]

Too bad his enemy was a blank wall with no complex emotions

[crisp moon]

the dorn thing pisses me off so much

then again he nearly murdered Garro for giving him bad news about horus

[open pumice]

What fuckin dorn thing I was talking about the lion

[crisp moon]

oh

well

same shit

brick walls

[open pumice]

dorn is a good character

[crisp moon]

I meant dorn trying to cage curze and setting him off the deep end

[open pumice]

yeah

[crisp moon]

he just needed a hug and some therepy man

[open pumice]

dorn has like

[crisp moon]

fuck

[open pumice]

actual emotions though

[odd palm]

Rogal's mistake was assuming Curze was sane

And not understanding his brother

[crisp moon]

imagine if horus handled it

or lorgar

[open pumice]

What I like about dorn the most is he's self aware

[crisp moon]

probablu would have gone better

[open pumice]

Horus could have done it

[open pumice]

Lorgar would have fucked it up

[crisp moon]

nah

[odd palm]

Horus, Sanguinius

[open pumice]

like lorgar fucks everything up

[crisp moon]

lorgar was peacemaker who almost everyone liked

he absolutely could have handled it better assuming no chaos fuckery involved

[open pumice]

Lorgar and Morty trying not to loose controll of their legions challenge (litteraly impossible)

[open pumice]

Lorgar was a spineless coward who most people barely tolerated

[crisp moon]

"we're red now deal with it dad"

I like how Lorgar went emo but instead of black it was red

[crisp moon]

I will fight you..

bro tanks a shot from a titan to save his brother from another titan

he goes ultra instict sometimes

[open pumice]

I cannot think of a single primarch or legion ever being described as liking lorgar or the word bearers

[open pumice]

With the intention of later sacrificng his brother to the dark gods to ascend him to daemon hood and live an eternity of agony

[crisp moon]

In his defense he only did that because bro was literally dying

now could he have not done that? sure

[open pumice]

Its mad every clear that this wasn't a spontaneous decision

[crisp moon]

fair enough

[open pumice]

this was premedated for decades

[crisp moon]

but I still stan the angron lorgar short lived bromance smashing up ultramarines

[open pumice]

I love that one ultramarine lieutennant who challenged khrn to a duel by going "Kharn, the legend ends here!"

badass line

based ultramarine, as always

Ultramarines trying not to be constantly based as hell in HH challenge: literally impossible

[crisp moon]

I like the night lords part where the ultramarine successor goes on about all of his titles and COURAGE AND HONOR and Xarl is like "all you ultramarines don't know how to shut the fuck up"

[open pumice]

this was funny

UM in 40k are much less based than UM in HH

[crisp moon]

"I'm gonna use your helmet as a shitbucket"

[open pumice]

tho

guilliman is unironically great and I love him

[crisp moon]

Sometimes I think he was the best one to bring back

[open pumice]

he was

he's level headed eough to not shake up the setting too much

[crisp moon]

The only one who realizes that the universe doesn't revolve around him and therefore doesn't have an ego the size of terra

[open pumice]

but still a fierce and powerful primarch with alot of active influence

with the lion's return on the horizon

I can only hope that they do him right

[crisp moon]

he's utterly inhuman but he's not a prick about it, he's just a dude placed in a shitty situation

[open pumice]

and actually give him a personality

[open pumice]

yeah

also

unironically

in 40k

[crisp moon]

like he doesn't go around calling people mortals and shit

[open pumice]

bean counting is probably the most impressive superpower

because that man ahs to count alot of beans

[crisp moon]

the avenging bean counter is such a great roast though

you gotta admit

[open pumice]

Honestly

more of a complement

look

as a cs guy

who fucking loves spreadsheets

if someone gave me the title "the avenging bean counter"

it would be at the top of my resume

[crisp moon]

forgot to reply with this

[open pumice]

Correct

the worst part of HH was an ultramarine not getting to personally shove his boot up lorgars ass

and instead lorgar skurrying away like the shriveled rodent he is at the first sign of horus confronting him

god
that was the perfect ending to lorgar's involvement in the heresy

[crisp moon]

ah well

now he's hiding from ravens

all is good in the galaxy

people forget WBs are the second most powerful chaos legion pre and post heresy too bad they haven't done anything recently

[open pumice]

He spent the entire book talking massive shit about how he's gonna dethrone horus and take over the rebellion

[open pumice]

Are they though?

or are they just the 2nd largest

those aren't exactly the same thing

[crisp moon]

I mean in a franchise like warhams numbers=strength even if that's not always the case

having a big legion doesn't mean you do good shit though see: the lion in 30k doing jack shit

[open pumice]

WE and DG could probably run lorgars fade

[crisp moon]

yeah..

well

[open pumice]

lions legionw as average sized

[crisp moon]

good chat

time to sleep

[open pumice]

lmao indeed

gnite

[rose thorn]

I really like the iron snakes, >_> that seem too cool is there anything stupid about them besides the fact they only drink sea water

[arctic talon]

The marine body can deal with it tbf

[torpid narwhal]

what are sarethe

any1 have a picture

[crimson kayak]

Sarethe?

Dafuq's a Sarethe?

[serene mist]

Saruthi?

Is...is that what you meant to type?

[mystic geyser]

Imagine a well modelled Saruthi Tetrascape

the Eisenhorn game tried but it didn't really capture it.

[arctic talon]

I’m gona sssume saruthi

And they have no art

[echo vault]

Why make your land raider transport marines when you can use a dozer blade to transport your enemies TO THE GRAVE

[torpid narwhal]

the things they fight in xenos

[signal bramble]

Either works. It’s a land raider and they do need to raid lands.

[torpid narwhal]

im still confused what chaos is

[arctic talon]

Evil

[celest dome]

Surnatural force of the universe, which are housed in the spirit realm and are affected by the material plane's emotions and souls

[polar jackal]

Not necessarily

[celest dome]

Nah, Chaos is not a force of good
It's less evil and more working on a different plane of morale

[mystic geyser]

It's a reflection of emotion. In a hypothetical emotionally stable galaxy it could be good, but this one very much isn't.

[plush mason]

no its not a reflection its a perversion

people seem to thing that chaos in warhammer is just like chaos irl, a destructive force but one that also brings possitive change

that is not what it is

its just a different word for hell

hell they literally use "daemon" just because it looks cooler than demon

[celest dome]

Daemon is a allowed way to write it though

[serene mist]

Allegedly daemon has its origins in the Greek daímōn, which is a protective spirit

[celest dome]

Well there is also a diff between Daemon and Demon.
Demon are "evil" Daemon, while good Daemon are nowadays called Angels

[storm jungle]

I swear

"chaos is not evil guys trust me"

yeah because a bloodletter is totally chummy with me

[plush mason]

lol ikr

[storm jungle]

I get that people sometimes want deep philosophical aspects in things but chaos is just cartoon villainny

its why most chaos fans like that stuff, its fun

[plush mason]

yes that was my point, the "daemons" of chaos are just demons

[plush mason]

the whole point of grimdark is that everything sucks and there is no deeper meaning to anything

its suffering for suffering's sake alone

but i get why people want more than that

[storm jungle]

Yeah but look somewhere else other than the guy who has a big massive daemon-tank with threads that shoots screaming skulls at people

[plush mason]

yup

[orchid thicket]

Terrifying, but impossible imo. The Custodes would not allow it

[celest dome]

But would the Custodes know of it ?

[orchid thicket]

Sure. They're smart

[mystic geyser]

and obedient. And good at keeping secrets.

[polar jackal]

Chaos isn't good or evil. It is indifference. Chaos gods and their champions represent both the positive and negative traits that feed them in their attempt to spread their will as far as they can and win the big game. By calling chaos evil, you're calling every living species along with it evil as they too reflect such things. Sure, Khorne may feed on senseless violence, but he feeds on honour and marshall prowess in much the same way.

But at the same time, giant demon skull tank.

[celest dome]

Maybe in older Warhammer Fantasy lore yes, but not in the current lore
AoS is somewhat trying to re introduce it though
But in 40k it's evil though and through

[orchid thicket]

Chaos, for all its chaos, has been very consistent with one thing: wanton destruction and acts of malice that sapient cultures universally consider "evil"

[next rampart]

Lmao, did you really just repeat what they said with extra steps?

[next rampart]

The immaterium isn't evil. The forces known collectively within as chaos are.
You need only see what actions they take and what actions they reward to prove this.
Khorne may appreciate honor and skill and only when it's attached to murder, and he doesn't feed on it. It's a preference.

[drifting prairie]

Evil is extremely subjective, everyone you love in 40k is a massive dickhead is the bottom line tbh

[versed ledge]

Sort of curious, are we, the rejects, special forces?

[copper patrol]

more or less

we'd be closest to what you run in a kill team

[versed ledge]

Fair enough

[copper patrol]

not exactly "special" but 100% not normal forces

[versed ledge]

I mean we're up against heretic tempestus scions

[copper patrol]

they are just heretic guard

the moebian 6th

[versed ledge]

You see those guys with hell guns? moebian 6th has their own apparently

[copper patrol]

I think those are ment to be like

a modern day saw

a support high volume of fire gun

[celest dome]

Stormtrooper, but not Scions

[celest dome]

We are just rag tag teams that cost not a lot for the Inquisitor

[serene mist]

Wot he said

Moebians def aren't Scions

[versed ledge]

Still doesn't change the fact we're up against their own special forces unit

Us, unhinged outcasts

[copper patrol]

I think the more apt term is specialists rather then special forces for what we are up against

[versed ledge]

Fair enough

[copper patrol]

since they are integrated within the units and not their own thing normally

[versed ledge]

That is, an astute observation

Little wonder why the moebian 6th has a strong hold over atoma

[celest dome]

Heavy Weapon teams

[versed ledge]

I heard some mention about the imperium launching a massive counter attack via in game dialogue from the veteran, is that true?

[copper patrol]

they are having a ground war outside iirc

[versed ledge]

If that was the case, we'll be eating bolter rounds instead of las-fire, sort of glad that isn't the case

[next rampart]

Evil is not subjective, let alone "extremely" being a Dickhead doesn't make you evil

[drifting prairie]

you're right, them eldar are evil

all of them

live not the xeno

[next rampart]

The rejects are an irregular force, but not "SF", just happens to be better than everything we see and fight xD

[next rampart]

Literal bioweapons developed to fight the Necrons, who murder-fcked a chaos god into existence, correct, evil.

[drifting prairie]

so who's not evil to you lmao

don't wanna hear anything about space marines since they're apart of the murder machine that is the imperium either

or tau considering what they do to people who don't convert

or obviously choas

or the nids

or necrons

i guess orks 🤷

[next rampart]

I think you're confused, I never said no one was evil, lmao

[uncut karma]

nids arent evil, they dont act out of malice but because they want to eat the biomass

all of it

the hivemind might be evil, im not sure of its characteristics actually

yeah debatable

[signal bramble]

Incorrect. That’s changed now as they’ve started characterizing the hive mind.

In the new flesh tearers book I’m reading it specifically mentions wanting vengeance against the red space marines that dared stand against it. It hates them and took it quite personally.

[crimson kayak]

So basically it's an elephant that also wants to eat you

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Pretty much

[open pumice]

are y'all arguing about who the good guy of 40k is again

do we have to tap the goddamn sign again

[open pumice]

Evil may be suggestive, but everyone in 40k is objectively diabolical, and if you think otherwise, you need mental help

There is nothing not evil about casual genocide

(In which every single faction actively takes part in with glee)

[arctic talon]

Idk i just called chaos evil lul

Everyone’s evil

In 40k

[next rampart]

Nope, just evil not being subjective.

[arctic talon]

So how about that arks of omen

You know the whole khorne converting a bunch of sisters of battle and primaris

[copper patrol]

hm?

[arctic talon]

arks of omen angron

New lore

Yet another Chaos W

[copper patrol]

I mean primaris is w/e but sisters is pretty big

[arctic talon]

Yep

[copper patrol]

since like one

[arctic talon]

Almost the entire 5th fleet

Of the indomitus crusade

[copper patrol]

ever has been corrupted iirc

[arctic talon]

Are a bunch of khorne worshippers

Now

[copper patrol]

I mean if sisters would fall to any chaos god

it would be khorne

[arctic talon]

Ye

This wouldn’t have happened if the inquisition didn’t mess with archeotech

But too late now lul

[storm jungle]

Damn just caught up with the chat

I hate it

[arctic talon]

Hate what I just mentioned?

Or the conversation before

[storm jungle]

yeah the "evil is subjective" convo before

people be like "Killing innocent people is subjective from a human POV"

okay dude

[copper patrol]

it can be subjective, but in 40K? no

[storm jungle]

It really cant be

killing people that havent done anything to you is evil

its not a hard subject

[copper patrol]

I wasn't really meaning stuff like that, as that is evil, just in general

[open pumice]

AOO is rad

[arctic talon]

Yep

Anyways this is yet another imperial L

In a long string of them lul

[copper patrol]

it's a bit more interesting when they do that

[storm jungle]

Bless 🙏

[open pumice]

You mean commiting countless genocides on a daily basis isn't good?!?!?!?!

[storm jungle]

AUGHHHH

[arctic talon]

Imperium hasnt won a single warzone book yet

[storm jungle]

oh yeah they havent have they

my only source of information for it is from Shaskais on reddit

[arctic talon]

And honestly they’re gona keep on taking L’s till arks of omen 4 at least

[copper patrol]

imperium has been due for some actual loses for a while

[arctic talon]

Imo lol

[open pumice]

AOO is gonna be an imperial W

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Overall

Prolly not imo

Considering every warzone book has been a msssive L

[copper patrol]

and I like most the imperium factions(not their ideologies mind you)

[arctic talon]

Aside from that one the imperium wasn’t at

[open pumice]

If rumors are to be belived, were getting primarch 2

[arctic talon]

Yep

[copper patrol]

lots they could do

[arctic talon]

Doesn’t mean a win imo

It could be stabilization

[copper patrol]

Russ as crazy space odin would be cool

lion just being an asshole would be interesting

jaghati deserves to come back tbh

underrated primarch

[open pumice]

no, it really wouldnt TBH

the lion doesn't have a personality

[copper patrol]

in terms of what else it would cuase would be interesting

[open pumice]

what else would it do

[copper patrol]

depends on how much of a dick lion is gonna be

[open pumice]

does it?

[copper patrol]

yeah?

[open pumice]

DO you really think the lion is going to actually change or shake up anything?

[copper patrol]

lion wouldn't just fall in under gulliman which could cause problems

[open pumice]

he's going to fuck off to imperium nihilus

[copper patrol]

I'd prefer jaghati or russ

tbh

[open pumice]

i would prefer the lion just die

[copper patrol]

was just listing names that would be more interesting then dorn

since while I like dorn

[open pumice]

he's the single least interesting primarch by an incredibly wide margain

[copper patrol]

him coming back would actually just change nothing

[open pumice]

Dorn should come back with a more contentious primarch

[copper patrol]

that's why i'd like to see crazy space odin russ

[open pumice]

agreed

I just

hate the lion

You know its a bad chareacter when I like curze more than the lion

[copper patrol]

I mean

curze is a really well done character

[open pumice]

yes

and the lion isnt

the lion has no personality
the lion has no motivations
the lion's not even that great at martial combat

his whole shtick as being a melee combatant?

almost every other primarch does it better

I mean sanguinius took on a blood thirster and angron in the same fight and killed them both

Dorn absolutely dunked on daemonically scended Fulgrim, though didn't kill him

Jaghati kahn beheaded ascenbded mortarion

the lion could barely handle wounding the night hanter after hunting him fro the entire heresy

I find it really funny how the two primarchs who were touted for being the empero's blades (russ and the lion) are the two loyalists who failed to do anything

[undone zodiac]

Lion was supreme tactician

[rose thorn]

Hey meta question, how would you describe GW’s art style?

[open pumice]

the lion was a god awful tactician

[undone zodiac]

Honestly idk anymore of hh

[open pumice]

you cant just say the lionw as a great tactician when all of his tactics are awful and he needs daddy guilliman to come over and help him win against curze

[undone zodiac]

Its clusterfuck of too many writers

[copper patrol]

almost all the primarchs are "supreme tacticians"

until they aren't

[open pumice]

You mean like, what genre of art I would lace it in?

[rose thorn]

Except lorgar, he said he isn’t and isn’t really at all lol

[undone zodiac]

Like no-one manages to keep any character consistant

[open pumice]

there are like, 4 who could actually be considered "supreme tacticians" the rest are OK generals

[copper patrol]

hence the quotations

[open pumice]

IDK most of the characters are mostly consistent, with a bit of levity

yeah

[rose thorn]

Lorgar being the worst since, he has zero military experience lmao

[open pumice]

I was agreeing

[copper patrol]

quite a few had zero military experience

[undone zodiac]

Whatever place i read/listen i feel like i get most convoluted sum of the characters

[rose thorn]

Lmao

[copper patrol]

off the top of my head, I think only dorn, guilliman, perty(?), and maybe horus had any kind of real exeperience

in terms of leading

[rose thorn]

Oh Corax did

But ate shit

[open pumice]

Most of the primarchs had combat experience

everyone but angron led successfull rebelions on their home worlds

[undone zodiac]

Epic fail that

Angron

[rose thorn]

Who else hmmm

Technically fulgrim had none

Before getting his legion