40k-lore-chat

[north lotus]

Cosmetics could be Camo patterns and small trinkets

As for the ammo capacity, you could potentially have a similar setup with ammo

[celest dome]

If it doesn't influence stats/gameplay it's ok, otherwise not needed/wanted

The boots/putee are more English like iirc

[north lotus]

If you want to be a ranged focused character, you can, but you will be really really slow.

[north lotus]

And fucked if a mutant is chasing you

[barren ether]

Yes, I’m more than aware. The Krieg are generally based on WW1 type aesthetics, and the Steel Legion are more WW2.

[celest dome]

I mean, the Vet SHarpshooter is a ranged focus one, and as would be for the Ogryn Gunlugger

[north lotus]

I am more so describing a situation of having to choose between more gear or more mobility

Which would be a great way of balancing gear

As nice as your bolt gun is, you only get 90 rounds max, and other options like the headhunters and lasgun’s get more options through features

Lasguns have ludicrous capacity

Headhunter autoguns get “rifle grenades”

[north lotus]

Or optics

While lasguns get “electronic” optics

[celest dome]

Just to say but this isn't lore

[north lotus]

Sorry

[celest dome]

This would be more appropriate for theorycrafting

[celest dome]

So why balance it through cosmetics ?

[north lotus]

Not meant to be that way

I meant basically going and doing a insurgency sandstorm approach to cosmetics

[hallow saddle]

that's 30k, no?

Or is it a 40k novel, I forget

[rose gyro]

Horus Heresy

[tulip sand]

Alright gang whats everyones favorite fan made novel/story set in 40k my workday is going sloq

Slow

[signal bramble]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6bgi5STRe8E

[rose gyro]

Astartes

[tulip sand]

Shartes

I heard the creator became a reject in the warhammer+ team

[open marsh]

Probably because he can actually make quality animations and not something akin to a mid-2000s flash animation

[rose gyro]

And Helsreach

[shadow plover]

Helsreach was great until it started to look like any other SFM animation

[open marsh]

Helsreach is an official novel. He just made an SFM animation for it

[tulip sand]

Did he make exodite

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/KS2eo9su1uCPpGDCTPz7dcu0GEZhBPvRIoj6VEKpXKg/https/i.imgflip.com/73nsoq.gif

That was a good animation

[dusk patrol]

I don’t think so

Just Angels of Death

[tulip sand]

Ic

[dusk patrol]

Or whatever it was called

[shadow plover]

no, but I feel like the new Iron Within looked a lot like his handiwork (actually after doing some googling I don't think it is)

[rose gyro]

GW nuked the Fanbase Animation, so

[tulip sand]

Are they allowing it back

[rose gyro]

No

[tulip sand]

Iirc leadership shuffle happened

[rose gyro]

people who can lost interest after that

[tulip sand]

The only people still interested are the smut creators

[rose gyro]

Death of Hope

[rose gyro]

Do share

I'm concerning

[tulip sand]

Idk lmao im just assuming

Like haha eldar woman

[shadow plover]

death of hope died long before the fanimation debacle

[tulip sand]

Whats death of hope

[shadow plover]

heresy era fanimation about ultramarines and word bearers on calth

[tulip sand]

I see

Maybe someone can just upload cinematic arma 'gameplay' with the 40k mod 😭

[shadow plover]

looked alright but the dude making it stopped after receiving some backlash from his weird remarks about 'true fans' of warhammer etc

[rose gyro]

there are many

[unique berry]

https://youtu.be/o3qo9idFYPc either this one or Helsreach

[tulip sand]

But like good gameplay

[rose gyro]

ah, SODAZ

[tulip sand]

Like the cyberpunk one

https://youtu.be/9rlAs6NWqps

[rose gyro]

I once saw a Warhound Titan in an ARMA game

[unique berry]

Yeah they got Warhounds and the "Normal" Titans

[vital kernel]

I played the arma mod for 40k in its early stages

had fun with Thermal Sights on a Sentinel.

[unique berry]

I love the 40k mods

Nothing is better then crashing the server with da Thunder hammer

[nocturne crest]

Is GW affected in anyway by what is happening with WotC?

The OGL changes.

[rose gyro]

what is WotC

[signal bramble]

Wizards of the coast.

[mystic geyser]

What is ogl lol

[signal bramble]

They own magic the gathering and D&D

[signal bramble]

The open game license that allows people to make homemade dnd stuff.

[nocturne crest]

And the changes they're making to the license means that you need to pay a fee and your homemade creations are now their and by extension, Hasbro's property.

[rose gyro]

well DnD didn't mean RPG

[celest dome]

Only the rpg would but not even sure about that

[mystic geyser]

I mean that's nothing to do with GW

But you bet they'll be taking notes

[rose gyro]

not all games need 1,000 career paths

[celest dome]

Like Only War, Cubicle 7's fantasy rpg might in some way be affected but it's unclear atm

[barren tapir]

Wut?

[nocturne crest]

That's how it's been described to me.

[dusk patrol]

I would probably not trust how people on the interwebs describe copyright or legal stuff like that

[celest dome]

On the internet, everybody is a lawyer, for some reason

[nocturne crest]

Don't lawyers just argue their point of view that is beneficial to their client?

[celest dome]

Like that other time we had someone argue how the movie/show that Superman actor was going to do would still have GW control or not

[signal bramble]

Blizzard did the same thing with Warcraft 3 reforged to hedge their bets just in case someone made the next dota.

[nocturne crest]

Yeah.

Well, people have just been comparing this move as something GW would do.

[signal bramble]

I remember a few people made intentionally racist games in WC3 just to say it’s an official blizzard property out of spite.

And it was technically correct.

[red spruce]

hello lore heads! we psykers think about the new upcoming psyker class of "protectorate" in the psykers channel

any ideas about it lore-wise?

[signal bramble]

The AM psykers have several buffing and defensive spells they can use.

So it’s whatever that discipline is. I forget the name.

[celest dome]

Diviner ?

Or Theologist Psyker

[signal bramble]

Maybe. I’m at work so I can’t check the codex.

Got it. It’s called the Psykana discipline.

It’s got a lot of buffs.

[celest dome]

Psykana just mean PSyker

[red spruce]

when i google psykana disciplines i end up on russian websites? emperor protect the machine spirit of my servitor

[celest dome]

There are 7 disciplines:

• Biomancer
• Divination
  -Pyromancy
  -Telekinesis
  -Telepathy
  -Daemonology
  -Theosophamy

[red spruce]

okay, psykinetic = telekinesis I assume

[celest dome]

Yes

Psykinesis is the "correct" name for telekinesis

[signal bramble]

The Russian website is used for free tabletop rules.

[signal bramble]

That’s what it’s called on the tabletop.

[celest dome]

Ah, ok

That's not a Psyker Discipline

those are just the spell an army is allowed to take

In this case

Imperial Guard ?

[signal bramble]

Under the umbrella of the psykana discipline. Yeah AM.

[celest dome]

It's not a discipline of it's own

It's a mix of all the major + other minor disciplines

Like there is also ice powers with the Psyker used to communicated

[signal bramble]

Each army has its own discipline but that could be just a gameplay thing.

Like belakor spells are called the noctic discipline, Slaanesh is called the soul stain discipline, etc.

[mystic geyser]

Theosophany?

[celest dome]

Well it for balance and faction identity
In the same way we have the Winds of Magic (Though in fantasy if you had access to a Wind you had access to all the spells from it)

[celest dome]

Those might be sorcery too

[red spruce]

unrelated but:

I just heard Explicator Zora ordering Sgt. Major Morrow into the dressing rooms for some unspecified business?
Zora + Morrow = ❤️ ?

[signal bramble]

Space marines have the librarius discipline, dark angels have their special interromancy.

There are some ones for inquisitors as well but I forget which.

Of all the tabletop psyker powers our psyker could get I’d love to use dominate.

Inquisitors have that spell. I’d use to mind control a rager or a reaper or something.

[celest dome]

Since Fatshark usually take inspiration from the rpg, Dominate is part of Telepathy

[celest dome]

Linked to Daemonology, but made on rituals and stuff to protect against Daemons and stuff
Kinda like exorcism and stuff

Not really suitable for here

[wary mesa]

hello lore masters

[celest dome]

Hello lore finder

How can we help you

[wary mesa]

what are the global interactions between chaos gods and other races? do the only fight big E ?

[mystic geyser]

They'll fight anyone. But humanity is the main source of nourishment. With the exception of eldar and slaanesh

[echo vault]

How the fuck did the dark angels have enough fire power to blow up Caliban into chunks, like a fleet in dawn of war can only really wipe the planets surface. Unless I'm forgetting a detail

[celest dome]

And there are minor Xenos that are Chaos aligned

[mystic geyser]

@echo vault DA 30k era fleet was HUGE

[celest dome]

Dark Angels have shiny toys, and 30k is Imperium stronger than current Imperium

[echo vault]

Dollar store value brand exterminatus

Also deathwing in 30k only paint armor panels that took a potentially lethal injury meant for another combatant bone white, would it be possible for someone like a deathwing companion to be fully bone white

[mystic geyser]

I believe there was also a warpstorm involved

[echo vault]

Caliban also had demons in the forests and it probably went under the surface

[signal bramble]

Chaos also generally prefers to avoid fighting necrons and Tyranids because they don’t have any souls to devour.

[arctic talon]

tbf Fighting necrons is sort of necesary now

whenever they start building their big null nexi

if they go up its pretty much impossible for chaos to do anything

[open marsh]

Do you blame her?

[rose gyro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVbDZBz2Ago&ab_channel=Okohan

we need this

[spare escarp]

Why is Latin still spoken in the 41st millennium?

I mean, I get it's "High" and "Low" Gothic, but...it's Latin

[celest dome]

High Gothic is Latin

And mostly due to the Emperor/Cabal

[ruby crystal]

I guess in that universe either the Brits adopted Latin and made it widespread like how they made English widespread or Rome never fell or they made damn sure to make Latin the native language of everyone they conquered

The possibilities are endless

[dusk patrol]

Because it’s written that way really

Also low Gothic isn’t Latin

And high Gothic is more bastardized space Latin

Low Gothic varies a lot by sector and planet

While high Gothic tends to be consistent

[mystic geyser]

it isn't Literal Latin. It's just translated into latin for us, like low gothic is translated into [insert your language here]

and old gothic was old english

like obviously people didn't start speaking old english again, it's a metaphor

[spare escarp]

How does that explain the obvious Roman/Gothic influence in basically everything else besides the language?

[mystic geyser]

humans do human stuff

[dusk patrol]

You’re trying to justify it too much

It’s the same reason Chogoris is Space Mongolian

And Caliban was Space Arthurian England

It’s cool

That’s it

[mystic geyser]

yeah

[dusk patrol]

There’s some bend over backwards in universe explanations for some things

[barren tapir]

And maccrage wished it was space rome

[dusk patrol]

Like Fenris is implied to have been made to be a Norse mythology world

[mystic geyser]

Like Fenris it's hinted at a civilazation roleplaying vikings that went wrong.

lol

[celest dome]

That's just Maccrage

[dusk patrol]

But mostly it’s just that way because it’s that way

[storm jungle]

Basically because its cool

also like

dont think much on Low Gothic

its just english

the lore does a shit job of explaining it

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-morty-rick-and-morty-dont-think-about-it-the-answer-is-dont-think-about-it-gif-14133358

[spare escarp]

Thought begets heresy comrades

[storm jungle]

its the same reason I appreciate the game just uses english everywhere on decals and such

low gothic is suppose to be "future human low-born speech" but considering GW never attempts to flesh it out why should you

i just go with it being english because yeet

[mystic geyser]

like if they'd gone full tolkien and made every language, then translated it into english, it would be quite different

but its far more pulpy than that lol

and better for it

[storm jungle]

Yeah lmao

High Gothic is Latin, Low Gothic is English, simple as and all people need to usually know

[spare escarp]

Fair enough

[storm jungle]

yeah its a bit confusing but thats entirely due to the lore-writers not fleshing it out like i said

dont think about it and go with the flow

[mystic geyser]

Latin is good because its a good base language for a lot of countries.

[dusk patrol]

When the plot needs it or authors want there can be some issues with language due to dialect

Or planetary specific languages

But mostly it’s just depicted as having weird says or accents

[storm jungle]

Yeah the problem is every Imperial planet would have its own language

[spare escarp]

They do

[storm jungle]

yeah but also no

literally nobody bothers explaining it

Valhallans would speak Valhallan and Cadians would speak Cadian

it becomes a fucking mess

so they all automatically speak gothic

way easier

[barren tapir]

High gothic is esperanto
Low gothic is all the languages that were used to make esperanto
The difference is that esperanto was made by already established languages, while in 40K it is the inverse, high gothic was the main language from which all the various low gothic languages were born

[storm jungle]

again

dont think about it

its just english and latin

[spare escarp]

In a 40k novella I was just reading it says that he was speaking a language from Baal, but then immediately understood the low Gothic

I think it's kinda like Spanish and indigenous languages in the Americas

That's the analogy I use

[storm jungle]

Yeah like i said its way too much of a clusterfuck so the authors barely acknowledge it which is fine

it gets extremely confusing when everyone speaks english for our sakes in books but you are suppose to imagine them speaking their own alien human language

[spare escarp]

As a computational linguistics major, I would actually prefer it to be explained

[storm jungle]

well

tough luck

GW is lazy

[barren tapir]

And very bad when they try

[storm jungle]

^

they really do not understand how human evolution works

especially with linguistics

you'll only torture yourself my friend 💀

[celest dome]

Not every writer is of the quality of Tolkien

[spare escarp]

Well I'll just become a Black Library author and elaborate on the linguistics research of the hereteks

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[celest dome]

Good luck

[storm jungle]

Its not even Tolkien quality

thye just suck lmao

You know its bad when Warhammer Fantasy does a better job

[spare escarp]

Dan Abnett and Guy Haley are quite good

imo

[storm jungle]

KHALAZID GANG RISE UP

[dusk patrol]

Also like, it makes sense for a vast galactic empire

They’d want everyone to speak the same general language

[spare escarp]

Pretty much nobody is on the level of Tolkien

He's the Beatles of sci-fi/fantasy authors

[dusk patrol]

There’s still planetary languages but most everyone can speak low Gothic at least

[storm jungle]

Tolkien's work pretty much also "inspired" Warhammer Fantasy

[celest dome]

Khazalid is still not as good as Tolkien's many language, but its better

[storm jungle]

so even more irony there

[storm jungle]

UMGAK

[celest dome]

Well I'll accept the Khazalid as full fantasy language when it will have a proper syntax !

[spare escarp]

For real though, I would read an entire novel detailing the mundane data science tasks of the Lexmechanicus

[storm jungle]

Some old guard authors like Abnett try that

to uh, various effects

[spare escarp]

[dusk patrol]

Also Tolkien was a linguist who created a fantasy world to put all his wacky language ideas into

And it worked out

[spare escarp]

Again as a computational linguistics major, Tolkien is my homie

[dusk patrol]

Expecting Tolkien level of linguistic detail and history is going to make you unhappy with literally any other series ever

[spare escarp]

Examples?

I need to find these

Like HH or other stuff

[storm jungle]

Its here and there

sadly not usually a main plot point

[spare escarp]

I also play MESBG, which GW also makes of course

[storm jungle]

unless its Enuncia

aka Tongues but Warp-Super-Death-Language

Big E burned down the Tower of Babel because of it

such poignant historical references

[dusk patrol]

Abnett likes to have moments which hone in on some mundane person in universe for a bit

Or with the Magos

A whole book

[spare escarp]

Abnett is my favorite for that reason

[storm jungle]

yeah Abnett has been with 40k since almost its inception

guy also did Guardians of the Galaxy, hes been around

[spare escarp]

Unfortunately, DT barely has a story at all, and he supposedly wrote it

I hope it gets greatly expanded upon

[celest dome]

Not the worst one to be honest
And not really historical

[storm jungle]

its extremely bad

literally why did we need to know this

lmao

Its about as subtle as Brutus being the Emperor

and killing Caesar

[celest dome]

DT is in its infancy/introduction, be patient to see what's in reserve

[celest dome]

the Emperor being Saint Michel ?

[spare escarp]

Granted, I play/read 40k because I like Space Marines and gore and aliens, not because I want an academic work

[dusk patrol]

Well I mean

[storm jungle]

Tying the Emperor to any myth or historical event is bad

[dusk patrol]

Let’s be real it doesn’t deserve a lot of benefit of the doubt rn

But I am hopeful

Mostly copium though

[storm jungle]

no, you will get Amogus 40k and you will like it

its okay though we got the impostor

take that random zealot i didnt even talk to

[spare escarp]

If I wanted real historical stuff I would just play Axis and Allies

Which I'm not going to do

[storm jungle]

Its okay 40k's approach to history is just borrowing cool things and mostly butchering them

which is fine

mostly

[spare escarp]

Yeah for the style of fiction it is it works generally

[storm jungle]

its definitely a lot better than Warhammer Fantasy

which just has India, China and Japan and plays to the nations' most bad stereotypes

[celest dome]

The Warhammer fantasy map being a nearly 1 to 1 copy of the real world

[storm jungle]

💀

[spare escarp]

Well, it was created in 1983

[storm jungle]

or having "pygmies"

[spare escarp]

A lot of the D&D stuff from that era is racist as shit

[celest dome]

At least I'm a dwarf, nothing really change

[spare escarp]

as well

[storm jungle]

yeah WHF is super bad

especially since earlier on it was literally "grimderp LOTR"

Durthu is literally Treebeard Hitler

[spare escarp]

Still, I like Skaven

[storm jungle]

Alariel is just Galadriel

etc

[spare escarp]

🐀

[storm jungle]

skaven are probably the best original thing to come out of WHF for real

https://tenor.com/view/skaven-cheiften-skaven-cheiften-guitar-rat-gif-24492026

[celest dome]

Skaven have the worst lore tbh

[storm jungle]

OOF

[celest dome]

Much more with the End Time too

[spare escarp]

They need to add a gamemode in VT2 where you can play as Skaven

I'm not even kidding

[celest dome]

They already are trying to make it work

Look up Versus

It's a controversial idea from FS

[spare escarp]

I was not even aware this existed

Praise Sigmar

Well I like it

[celest dome]

It doesn't exist yet

[spare escarp]

Yes, but at least it's WIP

Supposedly

[celest dome]

Still in the work since, iirc, 2019 ? Is that possible ?

Aqshy said at the start of 2022 that it was still in the work/plan

(Sadly)

Would prefer to get something else

Like more weapon

(2022 was the 1st year we didn't get any weapon pack)

[spare escarp]

I like 40k more than Fantasy generally but rn VT2 is undeniably a better game

[celest dome]

VT2 now is a better game, VT2 at 2 month was a rough, if not rougher game that DT

[spare escarp]

Yeah, I was gonna say

We'll wait patiently I guess

I'm glad I got Darktide at a relatively early stage though

I don't have regrets in that department

I thought I did when my computer kept crashing while I was playing it but it turns out I just had to update my BIOS

[rough condor]

What is the size of chapters (Ultramarines for example) now that they are on this Indomitus crusade?

As far as I’m aware, chapter size limitations are null if you’re on a crusade (see black templars)

[dusk patrol]

Unclear but generally assumed to be similar to what they were before

After Primaris reinforcements

[celest dome]

Ah, logistic the one thing that GW does not want to the touch with the longer pole ever

[dusk patrol]

Hey at least they just don’t bother mostly these days

I prefer it to their terrible attempts prior

[odd palm]

I'd say most chapters sit around the 700 or 800 to around 1100 size range. Due to combat losses, recruitment and the technicality of specialists techmarines, chaplains, librarians and apothecaries seemingly not counting towards the total chapter strength.

[nocturne crest]

I'm just curious, but what chaos space marine warband is on the cover?

[celest dome]

I'd bet it's part of Abaddon's group

Don't remember their name though

[summer rover]

some generic loser

[celest dome]

Never bothered to learn the name of any SM stuff apart from the most important stuff

[nocturne crest]

I just find it odd, because it's the eye of Horus on the side, right?

[celest dome]

Maybe and ?

[nocturne crest]

Well, isn't there a lot of hate of Horus for his failure?

[celest dome]

Most of the Black Legion use that symbol afaik

[unique berry]

Whats this convo about? The Black Legion and its Warbands or what?

[celest dome]

Nah, the White Dwarf book has a Chaos Marine which has an eye of Horus on it's shoulder

Calibre was finding it odd since Horus failed

[nocturne crest]

Yeah.....

I might be wrong to be honest.

I thought it was a Sons of Horus eye, but I think it's just a red version of the black legion's eye....

[unique berry]

Palm Head still uses it for his Warband and some Warbands of the Black Legion uses it too but since the Black Legion got members from nearly every Legion etc its mostly used by the Sons of Horus. The Black Legion sees itself not as the successor of Horus and his Legion, but as a new army to continue the Long War and succeed where he failed

All member of the Legion got the black gold armor with some details of there Warlord or of the Warband etc

[dusk patrol]

Looks like Black Legion I think

[unique berry]

Yup and a former Son of Horus so original

[dusk patrol]

He’s a little horny too

[unique berry]

[hallow saddle]

that's the Black Legion

[nocturne crest]

Looks blue to me.

[hallow saddle]

its the Ultramarines chapter

[hushed kayak]

could be black legion, or generic chaos marine

[arctic talon]

It’s def black legion

[nocturne crest]

Ultra Traitors...

[arctic talon]

I mean

Statistically speaking

There’s a lot of ultramarine geneseed traitors

[odd palm]

Mhm, 100% black legion. Admittedly there is an UM on his backpack

[arctic talon]

It’s the back decoration

For the drip

[odd palm]

Man's got style

[arctic talon]

Primaris skull racks

Super in season right now

[hushed kayak]

kinda crazy how they have the most turned traitors from the loyalist side

[arctic talon]

I mean

Statistically speaking it makes sense

[odd palm]

There are simply to many of 'em

[arctic talon]

There’s the most ultramarines

They survived the heresy the best

Hell their numbers were so big

If they reached terra in time they would have single handidly turned the tide

[hushed kayak]

at least the primaris haven’t gone over, due to being resilient

[odd palm]

I think statistically it's UM, BA/IF then DA in terms of gene-seed chapters

[arctic talon]

Same with the dark angels

UM, IF, DA

is the order

BA don’t have that many due to geneitic instability

[hushed kayak]

has there ever been a traitor side from salamanders?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Pretty much every gene line has had someone go traitor

[odd palm]

^

[arctic talon]

The lost primarchs “excluded”

They don’t count

[odd palm]

And if someone tells you that x loyalist lineage has never had a traitor ever, that's potent cope right there

[hushed kayak]

even the grey knights?

[arctic talon]

They don’t count

[odd palm]

They're not really from a primarch

[arctic talon]

And technically yes they did have one

Bcs one of them went into slaanesh’s palace

And endured everything but seeing slaanesh themselves

So yes a grey knight has “fallen” to chaos before

[hushed kayak]

interesting

[odd palm]

Didn't Ra the custodes eventually succumb to the daemon inside him that would become abaddon's sword

[arctic talon]

We don’t know

But prolly not

The sword said the stars would die before he corrupted Ra

[odd palm]

Daemons also lie

[mystic geyser]

Well Abaddon still got it somehow

[arctic talon]

Ra prolly died

Or got killed

Custodes or not they aren’t invincible

[hushed kayak]

i wish we got continuation of Decimus, few chaos books ever got that story.

tho i’m happy there’s a new Harrowmaster for the Alpha Legion. So that’s that

[red spruce]

Is it true that the first true space marines were all romanians?

[plush mason]

i have never heard that

[red spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jdPZR63sx8

Luetin clames it in the video. More precisely the dusk raiders

[plush mason]

well the dusk raiders where not the first true space marines afaik

[odd palm]

I mean if the dark angels, beeing the first legion were recruited from there?
Then technically for a time, yes all SMs were romanians

[arctic talon]

The dusk raiders weren’t the first marines ever

The first marines ever made were the dark angels

[plush mason]

yeah

[arctic talon]

And we dunno where they were from

[plush mason]

^

[arctic talon]

We know the raven guard

Recruited from around Australia and Hawaii

And the thousand sons from Turkey and North Africa

[plush mason]

is it ever stated where on terra the labs for the space marine project where located?

[arctic talon]

Where the imperial palace is

Or rather

To be imperial palace

[red spruce]

didnt know that so many space marines were terrans

[arctic talon]

So the himilayahs

[arctic talon]

All space marines were initially Terran

[plush mason]

^

[arctic talon]

That changed pretty fast as the crusade progressed

[plush mason]

^

[arctic talon]

And some of the Terran marines didn’t get along with their primarchs at all

I.E corax

[dusk patrol]

A lot of the Chaos leadership now is Terran funnily enough

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Abbadon isn’t Terran tho

Iirc

I know lucius is

Same with bile

And kharn

[dusk patrol]

Eidolon, Kharn, Ahriman, Bile

[arctic talon]

Yeah

But corax really didn’t like his Terran sons

Same with sanguinius(to an extent)

[red spruce]

https://youtu.be/8jdPZR63sx8?t=615

So at minute 10:15 the claim that the first space marines were albanias is true?

[arctic talon]

No

It isn’t

We don’t know where the first space marines were from

Other then Earth

And areas under control of the emperor

There were marines from Albania or what was left of it

But the Dark Angels were from an unknown area

Or just from a variety of areas

[red spruce]

I thought you need gene seeds and organ thingys to bake a space marine

that is why i was kinda sceptical when i heard the claim in the video

[arctic talon]

I mean the gene seed was made by the emperor

[red spruce]

so "just" average joes?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Or rather

Children and teenagers

[red spruce]

i see somewhere a joke ... balkan teenagers and children turned into "space marines"

[arctic talon]

I mean

They were

[red spruce]

dark knights? the ones which got their ass handed on vraks?

[nocturne crest]

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out the Ultramarines and Imperial fists had produced the most amount of traitors due to being the biggest legions.

[arctic talon]

You’re mixing up chapters right now

The dark angels were at vraks and so were the grey knights

The dark angels were only on vraks for like

12 days

And blew up the starport, captures a bunch of cultists and a csm

And left

[red spruce]

i remember that they got ambushed and had high losses

[arctic talon]

Yeah

But that tends to happen all the time

High losses are inevitable for marine chapters

If marines show up odds are they’re gona take some casualties

Because shit has already hit the fan

[red spruce]

anti plot armor?

[arctic talon]

Nah

Marines pretty much shit on anything that isn’t at their power level

But when they get deployed it’s usually not great

I.E full on chaos revolts that are well armed, daemonic incursions,

Tons of xenos

Tyranids

[odd palm]

Generally marines only show up because anything short of their swift, shock assault won't do the trick quickly enough

[robust cedar]

Xeno scum

[red spruce]

i understood your statement that space marines only get mobilized when things got out of hand already, therefore - in my understanding of wh40k - its always an uphill battle

[arctic talon]

Yeah

But marines usually don’t lose

These battles

It’s like 90% of them died but they won

[red spruce]

[arctic talon]

TLDR shit sucks if you’re a marine

Better pray you’re a named character

Or else your entrails will be used to paint the floor

[robust cedar]

Best be High Chaplain Grimaldus

[red spruce]

but going back to the table top... is it in-lore feasible that average army can hold their ground against a space marine chapter?

[odd palm]

Yeah

[red spruce]

not sure...
at least you die and have your peace
some named characters are not that lucky

[arctic talon]

Yes

Every single army on the tabletop can kill marines

Pretty reasonably

Lore wise

Or just slaughter them

[red spruce]

hmm so space marines are just hyped up what?

[odd palm]

Orks, T'au, Eldar, Tyranids routinely turn marines into little more than red mist on the xenos side.
Chaos does it all the time with ease

[arctic talon]

No

[odd palm]

Marines are exceptionally good, but they're in to small a number to win wars without other imperial support

[arctic talon]

^

Marines are elite shock troops

[red spruce]

ah i see
which is also the point because of lessons learned from horus heresy?

[odd palm]

Take Vraks for example. The Dark Angels, Grey Knights and.....Red Hunters and I think Red Scorpions proved decisive in battles.
But it was the Krieg siege armies that did the heavy lifting and kept the vast bulk of enemy pinned/distracted so they could actually perform

[odd palm]

Indeed, the heresy taught the imperium a valuable lesson.
A lesson that Abaddon doesn't let the high lords forget

[robust cedar]

Magnus did nothing wrong.....

[red spruce]

as a newbie watching lore videos on youtube most of the youtubers convey an image more like: well if they had like a chapter of 100 astartes space marine available then they couldve done it in a week. but because astartes space marine are busy elsewere all the time the average joe has to lay siege for decades and die in the trenches in the millions

[arctic talon]

If it’s just astartes then they would have issues with vraks

[red spruce]

astartes as synonym for space marine

[arctic talon]

I.E daemonic incursions and the fact marines aren’t ideal for proacted sieges

Yes

Most of the good siege equipment is available only to the guard and mechanicus

Marines are left with good but not ideal stuff

[robust cedar]

hop into the lore with the Officio Assassinorum

[arctic talon]

Marines only have like 10-15 whirlwinds max and like 10-15 vindicators max per chapter

But a guard regiment has like 100 fucking basalisks

[odd palm]

Marines can win wars very quickly, like in a week if they have the element of surprise, are underestimated and against incompetent leadership.
However if an enemy prepares, is adaptable, has good training and morale/leadership. Marines will quickly get bogged down and torn to pieces, said marines will inflict heavy casualties. But what can a single company do if against a decent portion of a hive city?

[red spruce]

and who has the biggest boom of them all?

[odd palm]

The navy XD

[robust cedar]

Exterminatus

[arctic talon]

The navy if we wana get pedantic

[red spruce]

ah i see, found the Nova Cannon with Rift Shells

i must say suspiciously lots of warp based technology is used by the imperium of man

coming back to my initial question in context of the game: so... the struggle on tertium is so insignificant that they just sent 1 cruiser with a handful of inquision dudes to recruit makeshift strike groups from convicts? cant even be bothered to send in the real army let alone space marines

[robust cedar]

space marines are almost never seen by regular people

[desert matrix]

implying the local inquisitorial conclave or the administratum are the reason why we're here.

big assumption to assume that your inquisitor boss you've never met and just seen a hologram rotating through other faces is totally on the level about the mission details

[odd palm]

When it comes to tertium and the type of enemy they're facing. You don't really want to send in astra militarum regiments against chaos if you can avoid it, a bit to valuable, could be spending their time being more effective elsewhere and the chances of corruption are to great. Seeing as the moebian 6th already turned.

So PDF and inquisitorial assets of Ordo Malius are more ideal

[desert matrix]

something entirely else is going on here, and suspicion is required

i mean cmon, take a step back and look at the bigger picture here. either the story was written by an idiot (dan abnett hit his head?) or the clues are right in front of us

[red spruce]

hope we get the bigger picture at some point
the short cutscenes were a bit underwhelming... espeically the final one at lvl30

[arctic talon]

if you want to send an astra militarum regiment might as well send an urban fighting one

Thats very faithful

[desert matrix]

im sure over the next couple years we will

[arctic talon]

I.E Athonian Tunnelrats

[desert matrix]

at least as long as it stays profitable

[odd palm]

Or the Maccabians

[desert matrix]

the set up is all there though, this is not what it appears on the surface.

never is when it comes to chaos

[arctic talon]

Maccabians aren't urban warfare specialists

or rather

hive warfare specialists

The Tunnel rats are

[odd palm]

True, but they have faith in spades

[desert matrix]

have to suspect everyone. even yourself.

[arctic talon]

the less time any regiment spends in contact with the moebians the better

which is why you'd prolly want specalists

and they're experts

at crushing Chaos revolts

[desert matrix]

logical but i think thats just trying to make a reason fit for something that otherwise doesnt make sense

unless it does make sense

[arctic talon]

wut

[desert matrix]

trying to make sense of this nonsensical deployment like it must be for some official reason

but it could be for a non-official reason that makes a lot of sense

shouldn't trust your boss just because he's waving a rosarius around. even if you HAD ever met the guy

[red spruce]

or its just an error in communication?

[desert matrix]

or he wants what's down deep below the planet's surface for himself

or has some other kind of ridiculous scheme

[arctic talon]

Odds are he wants something

thats my bet

[desert matrix]

now you're thinking

[arctic talon]

we're recovering tomes with inquisitorial symbols on them

And grimores

he's after information more then anything

[desert matrix]

what really tipped me off was the dreamer psyker's voice line during the usual exterminatus chatter everyone does

[arctic talon]

and Rannick isn't bringing the hammer down on the moebians and cult of admonition

Like

[red spruce]

but isnt this already heresy? maybe we are already part of the problem ...

[arctic talon]

I mean

not really?

[desert matrix]

he was doing his talking to the empeor thing and said "my beloved said exterminatus won't work, our real target is buried too deep"

[arctic talon]

Grendyl hasn't done anything heretical yet

but imo Grendyl is after something

don't know what it is

[desert matrix]

dunno if its heretical, but it certainly might not be above board and on the level with the conclave and administratum

[arctic talon]

but I think he wants the cult to lead us to them

or she

Or else we would have crushed them

he wants the Moebians and cultists to get desperate

[red spruce]

the grimoires have eyes and stare back ... how is this not heretical

[arctic talon]

Because they're being collected to learn from

[desert matrix]

well that might not have a real significant outside gameplay as being a tradition in vermintide

[arctic talon]

Know your enemy

so that you can kill it better

[desert matrix]

like i doubt the grims etc really factor into the story, thats just a contrived gameplay mechanic

the vermintide games had it, so this has it

but there's definitely something of value on (inside) atoma, and a reason why this is happening

and i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if mr. grendyl wants to get there first the same as whoever's behind the chaos stuff (be it some sorceror, some cult leader, or some daemon), and whatever other parties may be involved

whatever his reasons may be, be they loyal or heretical, i cannot say

[red spruce]

what about the demon hosts? they were not the result of the toxic gases release

[desert matrix]

cultists did that

[arctic talon]

^

[desert matrix]

just need some psykers to bind a daemon into, it ain't even hard

[red spruce]

panics in psyker

[desert matrix]

yup.

chaos tries to take psykers for way less pleasant reasons than "burned out powering a psychic GPS"

[red spruce]

but they seem to have no purpose as of yet

[desert matrix]

these are lesser daemonhosts, the kind who just exist for petty reasons and to serve their patron god

[arctic talon]

They have a purpose of slowing us done

Or for just giving information to the cultists

[desert matrix]

anyways, gameplay reasons on that part. divorce gameplay mechanics from story

pretty sure the second hive city thing is a red herring also. i mean why even bother, it wouldn't look any different

[robust cedar]

exterminatus

[desert matrix]

unless it was an older, ruined hive city

exterminatus apparently won't work for our mission.

[red spruce]

[desert matrix]

thats what's got me on this whole line of thought, once i heard that dreamer psyker say that

doing his "talking to my beloved" crap and he said that his "beloved" said that exterminatus weapons wouldn't penetrate deep enough to reach the primary target

[red spruce]

one of his voice lines states his beloved is the emperor himself

[desert matrix]

yeah. exactly.\

[robust cedar]

bruh I heard beloved and I thought Slaanesh

[desert matrix]

emperor literally said "no that ain't gonna work you gotta get something out of the middle of the damn planet"

no the dreamer sexually harasses the emperor

he takes the whole love the emperor thing entirely toofar

[red spruce]

cant argue with dreamer psyker, he also corrects sub titles

[desert matrix]

yeah uh, he really does talk to the emperor apparently. and emps himself said exterminatus won't reach deep enough in that case

[robust cedar]

I play Zealot so there is that

[desert matrix]

which means WTF is this a damn tomb world? is there some greater daemon buried deep down?

[robust cedar]

NECRONS

[desert matrix]

some ancient archaeotech resulting in the conditions where atoman ore is so strong?

[robust cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/necrons-necron-40k-gif-25759087

[arctic talon]

Actually

[red spruce]

is there something noteworthy of atoma prime?

[arctic talon]

What if it’s a daot ship

[robust cedar]

Trollzin the infinite

[arctic talon]

That’s deep underground

[desert matrix]

could be some archaeotech down there sure

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[red spruce]

what is a daot

[desert matrix]

has to be old. very old. and very deep

[arctic talon]

Might be why hadron is around

And is running mission control

Occasionally

[robust cedar]

Trazyn the infinite is a bigggg troll in 4 k lore

[desert matrix]

chaos is definitely here for a reason. they didnt just randomly pick this planet out in the middle of nowhere

could be something valuable, or could be something terrible they're trying to unleash

pretty much 50/50 chances on that one whenever chaos is involved right?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[desert matrix]

they sure didnt hire dan abnett to consult with them on "so theres a planet. it has uh, a hive city. some guys there get mad about not being paid enough so they turn into chaos and then an inquisitor shows up and makes some prisoners deal with it, the end."

hes predictable. he LOVES ancient artifact/daemon buried somewhere stories where the protagonists dont realize what they're doing until its too late

see; ultramarines movie

aside from him that's basically always the trope. see: every dawn of war game

aaaand because of the indomitus crusade stuff and all the mentions of it, gonna bet whatever this is plays into that arc somehow

[robust cedar]

One day I will be able to purge Xenos as a Templar

[desert matrix]

its also entirely possible grendyl is alpharius

[robust cedar]

I am Alpharius

[desert matrix]

i mean look at the first hologram face he shows. that's definitely alpharius.

[robust cedar]

Alpha legion shenanigans

[desert matrix]

yeah we could just all be alpha legion and not even know it

alternatively; some voice lines mention morrow was "kidnapped by a metal man" and that's the real reason he ended up in the future

so its possible we work for yet another mindshackled catspaw of trazyn

but thats just me having fun with it, the actual plot can't be that cool.

[robust cedar]

Trazyn you rat bastard XD

[rose gyro]

Thank you 💜 🐙

[desert matrix]

or... can it?

[red spruce]

what?!

[desert matrix]

well everybody loves perfection

[desert matrix]

yeah. morrow was released from a pokeball. thats why hes here instead of dead hundreds of years ago during the 1st battle of armageddon

[red spruce]

where is the source ?

[desert matrix]

ogryn says he heard morrow was kidnapped by a metal man and brought to the future

that... there's really only one guy who does that

[robust cedar]

The gray knights would like a word

[red spruce]

you want to listen to an ogryn? ... hmm

[robust cedar]

yes.

[desert matrix]

he's not smart enough to make that up

so yes.

[robust cedar]

Ogryn= too dumb to lie

[red spruce]

is successful and planned time travel a thing in wh40k?

[desert matrix]

especially too dumb to craft a convincing lie about a necron lord storing people in extradimensional tesseract labyrinths and deploying them centuries later

no for anybody but necrons

[robust cedar]

Rattle ME BONES

[desert matrix]

and they still manage to screw it up EVERY TIME

[red spruce]

what?
sounds like a space indiana jones

[desert matrix]

you dont know trazyn?

oh boy you must be new

thats literally exactly who he is

[red spruce]

🌱

[desert matrix]

trazyn the infinite is a necron lord who dedicated himself to preserving historically significant items and people. he also meddles in random affairs becaues hes insane and 70 million years old and bored. he's the whole reason cadia almost won, that guilliman is back, that the imperium isnt totally destroyed. all because he got mildly annoyed that abaddon accidentally broke his cool bell thingie.

[robust cedar]

Guardsmen

"how did you get in here?!" "Who are you?!"

Trazyn

"I am Trazyn the infinite" and "I am Trazyn the infinite"

[desert matrix]

he tends to snatch up significant people and things and lock them in stasis or in an artificial dimension for storage and safekeeping. then might pull them out later from his collection if deploying them is useful

think one part indiana jones, one part ash ketchum, one part skynet

[red spruce]

literally steals people?
what a jerk

[desert matrix]

yeah well, you cant stop him so, just get used to it

he's 70 million or so years old. he'll be around long after any of us.

MOSTLY all he does is collect stuff/people/hive fleets and stuff them away in his cool museum/planet/tomb-world Solemnance

[desert matrix]

heres a rabbit hole for you https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Trazyn

[red spruce]

so.. is he a good guy or a bad green skeleton?

confused

[desert matrix]

neither

[leaden yacht]

Isn't Abaddon preparing a 14th black crusade?

[desert matrix]

he's completely insane

[robust cedar]

Emperor please no

[desert matrix]

there's already a black crusade still going on yknow

whole galaxy split in half by a giant warp storm, daemons popping out everywhere

trazyn only helped that time because abaddon did some stupid daemon stuff that activated some bell artifact in trazyns gallery and interrupted his nap and broke a bunch of displays. it annoyed him. also necrons can't stand chaos, the warp is like ew and psykers are icky.

[desert matrix]

its not that he likes us. its that our enemies are annoying as shit.

[robust cedar]

I died when I found out he whipped it into the webway XD

[desert matrix]

heeehhhh stupid eldar

they'll have fun with that

those ears too lol ooooouch

[robust cedar]

thats some funny shit right there

[desert matrix]

basically matt ward ruined the necrons so hard like he ruins everything, that they circled back around to being awesome by way of being completely ridiculous

[robust cedar]

Orks ^

[desert matrix]

at first necrons with personalities sounded dumb. but then they turned into senile cyborg mental patients escaped from their rest home tombs

and it became funny

[robust cedar]

Orks never cease to make me smile

[red spruce]

I realise that you briefly trod my galleries, but the fact that you spotted in so short a time that my Acabrius War collection was lacking three regiments of Catachan warriors reveals that you truly have a collector's eye for detail. - Trazyn

Dude .... he is like a warhammer 40k table top player

[desert matrix]

yeah hes a parody of us

[robust cedar]

Mr steal yo shit

[desert matrix]

nemesor zandrekh is also a lot of fun, he's the necrons' greatest general. and also refuses to believe he's not still a flesh and blood necrontyr fighting the old dynasty wars, and treats captured aliens as honored guests according to the necron traditions. such as having a formal dinner with them where he awkwardly crams food into his faceplate that just falls off, until his bodyguard sees to it they "accidentally died trying to escape" which he's terribly sad about.

[robust cedar]

oof

[desert matrix]

they say he's insane, but truthfully he isn't. he's just nostalgic and prefers the old ways.

[robust cedar]

korks, bro korks

[desert matrix]

way before that, back before the war in heaven

necrons always fought intricate dynastic wars with these incredibly complex rules and codes of conduct

the traditions go back to their very beginnings as a species

[robust cedar]

Necrons had cancer

[desert matrix]

yeah and also a massive fetish for overcomplicated politics

[rose thorn]

And the best way to cure it, is immortality

[rose thorn]

Like every above ork intelligence faction!

[robust cedar]

man i would love to make a necron with the personality of HK-47

[desert matrix]

eh they've even got us beat as far as ritualistic traditions of courtly intrigue

necron reality show would be amazing

[robust cedar]

this is a really dumb question

but can someone explain to me how BT neophytes are chosen??\

[desert matrix]

not really a black templars expert, only time i saw their recruiting stuff handled was damnation crusade

[dusk patrol]

They just recruit from a lot of worlds

[rose thorn]

I thoguht you wre talking about the CoD gun

Lmao

[dusk patrol]

Helbrecht came from some hive world unspecified, he was guarded by a Custodes actually until he was taken by the BT

[robust cedar]

no no, the robot from Kotor

[dusk patrol]

But they recruit from lots of locations and constantly set up more

[rose thorn]

After googling it now I know lol

[robust cedar]

XD

[dusk patrol]

And then their "scouts" are basically just sent into the fray.

[rose thorn]

To be fair space marines have the personality of a gun

[desert matrix]

i can tell you the original origin of the black templars though

[robust cedar]

that I know well

❤️

[desert matrix]

primarch rogal dorn couldn't keep listening to sigismund drone on and on about finding religion, so he told him "uh sure youre the emperors champion now, that means you have to take this sword and go find enemies. like over there. where i'm not."

[robust cedar]

XD

Sigismund went out like a badass

[desert matrix]

well he had a lot of practice with that sword

dorn would absolutely flip shit though if he came back and saw that most of his successor chapters were now sigismund-influenced and worshipped the emperor

[robust cedar]

100%

[dusk patrol]

He was alive when Sigismund's chapter became what it was

Or around I guess is better to say

[desert matrix]

yeah but back then they were just 1/50th of his legion

now they're the majority

[dusk patrol]

Not really, and either way it doesn't matter.

He made up with Sigismund during the Siege

[red spruce]

i am reading ... so he has like kitchen-sink armies made of duplicates from his collection at his disposal

[desert matrix]

fists themselves and a lot of other chapters were wiped out and got restocked with templars

[dusk patrol]

They still went their separate ways but they weren't antagonistic

[desert matrix]

there was exactly 1 surviving original fist

[dusk patrol]

Yes and Templars are fists

There wasn't

He died

[desert matrix]

eventually, i mean he didnt live until modern times

[dusk patrol]

The Imperial Fists got completely wiped out during the War of the Beast

And got refilled by their successors

[desert matrix]

one of them survived and went on to become lord commander

[dusk patrol]

No he died during the war

No he didn't

[robust cedar]

Girlyman Rowboats codex

[desert matrix]

think whatever you like about it but templars and their ilk now make up the majority of fists-descended marines still active

[red spruce]

WHAT?! he even hurled in adeptus custodes? thats like a super rare pokemon in comparison, right?

man .... trazyn is a good guy after all

[desert matrix]

they dont adhere to the codex and the templars by themselves are practically a significant fraction of legion size

[dusk patrol]

I mean they still don't

[robust cedar]

Don't need to restrict numbers if you always crusade.

[dusk patrol]

There's about 25 Imperial Fists descendant chapters we know of which are named.

[desert matrix]

so the couple remaining successor chapters who weren't either refilled with templars, or didn't adopt the templars' doctrine... you think outnumber the marines who do follow sigismund's doctrine including the templars themselves?

templars alone are about 15 chapters worth

[dusk patrol]

There's nothing to suggest Black Templars are 15,000 marines

[desert matrix]

or more, nobody knows

[dusk patrol]

We have no idea on their numbers, but we've never seen that level

Based on the crusades we do know, high balling it its probably 8k

[robust cedar]

Only High Marshall Helbricht knows

[desert matrix]

thats because you're not supposed to see that many in one place, as it would be heretical

[dusk patrol]

No, they just don't care.

Its not heretical.

[desert matrix]

even 8k is a lot. then the other chapters that follow sigismund's rules instead of the codex

yeah, they outnumber the ones who follow the codex and stayed dornites

[dusk patrol]

Its still not even half the Imperial Fists we know of

Its not even a third tbh

And like I said

Dorn made his peace with Sigismund

They still didn't see eye to eye but he wouldn't despise them

[desert matrix]

okay well you believe what you like then, clearly dorn would come back and be like "yup everyone just worship the emperor as a god now thats cool"

[dusk patrol]

I would suggest actually reading the books with Sigismund and Dorn in them

[desert matrix]

he didnt even like it when it was a small minority

[dusk patrol]

Dorn didn't love the Emperor worship but by the Siege he realized that the Imperial Truth was very wrong

[desert matrix]

except for the part where it wasn't

[dusk patrol]

No, it was completely wrong

[desert matrix]

chaos aren't gods.

imperial truth is correct. there are no gods.

[dusk patrol]

Based off what?

[desert matrix]

based off the fact that they're just stupid warp eminations

[dusk patrol]

Oh god are we now doing the "Bile is correct" bullshit?

[desert matrix]

he is.

[dusk patrol]

You realize Bile is supposed to be an idiot in universe right?

[plush mason]

i mean. massive power levels do not make something a god

[desert matrix]

hes wrong about everything else, but not that chaos arent gods

[dusk patrol]

He's literally a minor warp diety himself.

[desert matrix]

you wanna worship chaos, go ahead. but it doesn't make it true.

[dusk patrol]

God is a subjective term anyways

[desert matrix]

its really not

[dusk patrol]

But in the context of 40k, what they consider to be gods, the Chaos Gods fit

As do the Eldar gods, and as does the Emperor now.

[desert matrix]

warp eminations. nothing more

ask a necron, they'll tell you what's up

[dusk patrol]

Yeah cause the Necrons are who we should be looking to for advice on making the right choices.

[desert matrix]

going listening to those knife-ear psyker lunatics totally can't lead you wrong

[dusk patrol]

The people who fed their souls to beings of reality.

And have been trying to get them back since.

[desert matrix]

at least they realized those weren't gods pretty quick

[plush mason]

the problem with the imperial truth was that it tried to make people think gods are fake when what it should have done is make people think that the gods are irrelevant to them and that they could surpass them

[robust cedar]

this got heated quick

[dusk patrol]

The Necrons literally say "We kill gods"

Dude, like

Read a book

They call C'tan gods

They just kill them too

[desert matrix]

as a joke, a pejorative term now.

[dusk patrol]

Not really

Because calling something a god in the context of 40k doesn't mean what we mean necessarily.

But its pretty clear you haven't actually read any of these books

[desert matrix]

it does. the imperial truth was correct and the emperor didn't lie. he merely omitted some caveats and details that may have been helpful.

[plush mason]

no the C'tan where the closest to what we think a god to be. a being that is linked to the very fundamental forces of the universe

[dusk patrol]

And are just parroting some youtuber or reddit opinion

Dude the emperor didn't even believe in the Imperial Truth

For fucks sake

[desert matrix]

never watched any youtubers or go to reddit

[dusk patrol]

Haven't read any of the books dealing with this stuff either

[desert matrix]

you seem to have a unique take on things, and thats fine, but you really don't have to get so upset

its okay to be wrong

[plush mason]

lmao

[desert matrix]

pats on head you go ahead and believe in chaos gods and such things, thats okay

[dusk patrol]

Its just boring when I'm trying to argue with someone who doesn't even know the basics of what they're claiming

[desert matrix]

you're the only one trying to argue.

[dusk patrol]

Like you're trying to claim how Dorn would react to the Templars, when he literally made his peace with Sigismund and saw what they became.

[desert matrix]

uh huh.

because he would. the templars are out of their damned minds at this point

[dusk patrol]

And then trying to say the Imperial Truth was correct when Malcador and the Emperor both admit it was a complete lie.

[desert matrix]

thinking the emperor was a god was bad enough, but at this point they're completely crazy

[plush mason]

afaik Dorn came to begrudgingly accept that worship of the emperor was necessary for humanity to survive after the heresy

[desert matrix]

imperial truth 100% true you in fact are a heretic sir.

[dusk patrol]

Basically this

[desert matrix]

emperor did nothing wrong ever

[plush mason]

LMAO

[dusk patrol]

But there's not really much point in arguing with someone whose lore knowledge is memelore.

At best

[plush mason]

that is pure imperial stan cope right there

[desert matrix]

im not even young enough to go on any of these meme sites youre talking about

[dusk patrol]

I think its more you're not old enough

[desert matrix]

i was around when all this wildly changing lore was... doing its wildly changing thing

[dusk patrol]

Can't check the "I am over 13 years old" box legally.

[plush mason]

lol

[desert matrix]

these horus heresy books were just written a couple years ago.

its new shit. and not all of it is really well written or well settled.

[dusk patrol]

I can understand why it would take you a few years to get through a few hundred pages.

[desert matrix]

man damn u mad

[dusk patrol]

Oh ok now we're moving the goalposts

[desert matrix]

did i pee in your chaos cheerios?

[dusk patrol]

Now the lore you dislike is just bad

But the wrong lore you're espousing is good

Even though it was never lore

[desert matrix]

sorry but you're wrong and the imperial truth is true, thats just what it is

[plush mason]

i really hope Mike is just trolling but i highly doubt it

[dusk patrol]

Keep coping friendo

[desert matrix]

chaos = not gods

stupid warp eminations. thats all.

[dusk patrol]

I mean either way its not a good look.

Its either he's an idiot

[desert matrix]

im not the one getting absolutely irate on the internet because someone told him chaos arent gods

[dusk patrol]

Or "lol I was just pretending to be retarded" deal

[desert matrix]

are you off your meds dude?

[dusk patrol]

I'm mostly enjoying this ngl, its always fun to see someone make a fool of themselves

Here comes the "no u"

[desert matrix]

you're the only one here getting super agitated and making personal attacks. because someone said chaos weren't gods.

[dusk patrol]

There it is

[desert matrix]

not like i care, i'm not some fragile snowflake. but it is a bit confusing as to why someone would get this heated over that

[dusk patrol]

You sure seem to care a lot, you keep posting

[desert matrix]

why the hell not.

[dusk patrol]

I'm just calling out bad lore my guy

[plush mason]

and protecting

[desert matrix]

you can call it bad lore all you like, but that doesn't make chaos gods

[dusk patrol]

Mkay bud

Go read a book champ and come back

[desert matrix]

gods aren't real.

[dusk patrol]

Neither are space marines or daemons

[desert matrix]

emperor = not god. chaos = not god.

[dusk patrol]

Its a make believe universe dude

[plush mason]

^

[desert matrix]

no i mean within that make believe universe. none of those things are gods.

emperor is some guy. chaos are stupid warp eminations.

[dusk patrol]

I'll believe you once you read a book in this universe

[robust cedar]

Emperor not a god = Heresy

[desert matrix]

that's it.

[dusk patrol]

Come back to us once you've done that

We got time

[desert matrix]

eats book i have completely forgotten how to read

how am i even typing this lol oh right text to speech

[plush mason]

?

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/nemo-its-like-hes-trying-to-speak-to-me-finding-nemo-gif-15387458

[desert matrix]

so cool story but still doesn't make chaos gods.

[dusk patrol]

Also not sure why you think Bile is real

There's tons of books with people who don't believe in Chaos Space Marines

clearly they don't exist in universe

[robust cedar]

Kharn the betrayer would like a word

[dusk patrol]

Nope I'm sorry sir

There's a character who doesn't believe in him

Therefore he doesn't exist

[plush mason]

Kharn can talk?

[dusk patrol]

He actually talks a fair amount

His books are worth a read if you can spare the time

[desert matrix]

would you like to know more about 8-fold paths?

[robust cedar]

I might check them out

[dusk patrol]

They go into why he's so effective and his mind space in current 40k a lot

He's almost always lucid

[plush mason]

oh i thought the butcher nails made the person unable to talk. or is that just when in a rage?

[dusk patrol]

Even when he's in the depths of his rage

Its what makes him so dangerous

[desert matrix]

yknow what they don't go into? any kind of proof chaos are gods.

[dusk patrol]

He's never like, lost to it

[plush mason]

i see

[dusk patrol]

Most Khornate Beserkers aren't like that

[robust cedar]

he was the only one to make Angron proud right?

[dusk patrol]

But the oldest ones who have survived long enough are

[dusk patrol]

Relatively yeah

[rose gyro]

hmmm

of course there are Chaos Gods

Why? Because GW said so, "Four Dark Gods of Chaos"

It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned.
Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.
There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

— The standard intro to every written work from the 40K universe

[desert matrix]

well, of course you'd say that. naturally.

[crisp heath]

I think the main distinction between the Chaos Gods and "just some warp entity" is that Chaos is pretty consistently portrayed as an actual, tangible morality and a kind of real, active evil. Like it's hard to talk about Chaos without leaning assumptions people might have about a higher power, except make it gross and mean

I wish I had the quote on hand, but in the very first Horus Heresy book another Luna Wolf (pardon my bad memory) is explaining to Loken why the Daemon he saw wasn't really a "spirit", but you can use that word, and his whole explanation is supposed to be ironic because everything he's saying isn't real that the Imperium rejects as "superstition" actually does apply to Daemons and Chaos, so in-universe the Chaos Gods are exactly what the Imperium didn't believe in when it said Gods aren't real

[undone zodiac]

Chaos and immaterium is manifestation of the saying "you reap what you sow"

[celest dome]

Most if not all of the Greater Chaos Gods were already born before humanity left their caves

[summer rover]

chaos gods are just turbo-daemons.

on space-cocaine

[celest dome]

EH, not really Daemon are just shards of their Chaos Gods

[summer rover]

see? just especially large globs of daemon. turbo daemons.

on space cocaine.

[red spruce]

@dusk patrol
When I read a message from you, I hear it in my head with the voice of Randy Savage
RIP

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/macho-man-randy-savage-oh-yeah-dig-it-happy-gif-5327208

[plush mason]

lol

[shut thorn]

safe to say our inquisitorial band is part of ordo hereticus due to traitor guardsmen?

or would it prob be malleus since plague stuff brought us here

[plush mason]

hereticus. the rejects talk about taking the hereticus oath sometimes

[celest dome]

Malleus is usually more concerned into hunting major heretics that have a lot of relation with Daemons

Like we already face daemons, and might see more popping out soon but they aren't in the nmber and agency that the Malleus would take care of it over Hereticus

[delicate temple]

Malleus is rooting out genestealers and the like too right?

[floral siren]

No, Genestealers would be Xenos

Malleus is described as solely focused on Daemons

I think Ordo Hereticus makes the most sense in this case

but I suspect our employer may be part of an Ordo Minoris

That being said, an Inquisitor of any Ordos would still be bound to respond to the issue at Tertium if they became aware of it and were in the area

Actually, reading up on all the Ordo Minoris, one seems plain and obvious