40k-lore-chat

[plush mason]

nah

like early on yeah

but they learned quick

[shut thorn]

cant remember what book or books it was in, but the tau like accepted some humans on a planet into their culture, helped them when they were starving n tons of stuff

then some marines came in n said fuck that noise, killed off all the tau, n left the humans again with strict imperial governance

i was like... cmon man....

[plush mason]

thats the imperium for you

[vocal drum]

are there downsides for u?

**for that

like i heard tau like castrate people they take in

so idk

[shut thorn]

i hadnt heard that

[vocal drum]

is it worth joining them?

[shut thorn]

but it was seen as like, tau trying to essentially colonize human planets

to grow their dynasty or whatever

not purely altruistic reasons for helping the humans

[arctic talon]

They don’t castrate you

[vocal drum]

ah

[arctic talon]

For one

But it’s like living under an authoritarian regime

[shut thorn]

OK THE TAU APOLOGIST IS HERE

GET EM

[arctic talon]

No

[shut thorn]

just teasin

lol

[arctic talon]

Lol

But living under the tau is less awful

Then living under the imperium

Still sucks

[vocal drum]

is living on tau worlds like living pre dark age for humans all futuristic and clean?

[arctic talon]

But it’s a different degree

[arctic talon]

Depends

We don’t even know what the dark age of technology looks like

[plush mason]

thats just from DOW1 so its not really canon

[vocal drum]

prob someething like

foretunner tech

crazy strong

[arctic talon]

We don’t know

[vocal drum]

sorry im guessing

[shut thorn]

i imagine tau society to be very clean and efficient, people accept their place in society n stuff

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[shut thorn]

peaceful monklike

[arctic talon]

They have a strict caste system

As well so

[shut thorn]

thats the word i was looki nfor

[arctic talon]

You’ll be learning your place in society when you’re born

[vocal drum]

so humans i can join?

but i have to work or something i guess

[shut thorn]

yeah they accept humans (atleast they used to im not up to date on lore)

but im not sure how they were designated castewise

[arctic talon]

They are accepting of humans

[shut thorn]

or their place in the society

[vocal drum]

wonder if tau are strong enuf to beat necrons

[arctic talon]

Any non tau are outside the caste system

[shut thorn]

not a chance

[arctic talon]

And thus can’t really advance socially

[shut thorn]

necrons would wipe the floor with tau

[vocal drum]

i cant wrap my head around it man

necrons are a literally dying race

[arctic talon]

They aren’t

What

They’re waking up lol

If anything this is only a fraction of their power

[shut thorn]

the necrontyre was a dying race, but they were turned into what we now know as necrons

[vocal drum]

60millioon year old robots that cant reproduce sooner or later they will run out

[arctic talon]

^

You can’t kill them

Lol

[shut thorn]

they are immortal

[arctic talon]

You cannot kill a necron

[vocal drum]

wtf?

[arctic talon]

They do not die

The body doesn’t matter

Only the personality engram does

Unless you completely wipe out a dynasty

A necron will never die

[vocal drum]

ok so..the war in heavens "the necrons faced incalcable losses"

what did they lose hen if hey dont die

[arctic talon]

Because the eldar have a way of destroying engrams

[shut thorn]

that was pre-robot form maybe?

[arctic talon]

And engrams can be corrupted

If you damage the data banks

[shut thorn]

there are 2 war in the heavens mentioned in lore

one has to do with the eldar

[arctic talon]

No current faction aside from the eldar or dark eldar or Necrons

Can really kill Necrons permenantly

[shut thorn]

and one is the necrontyr vs the old ones

[vocal drum]

im readng htis necron book i bought from amazon the book never said anything about immortality what the hell

[arctic talon]

It’s in their codex

[shut thorn]

there was some retconning too

for necrons

[vocal drum]

the necron king told them to sleep why tho?

they could of kept going

[arctic talon]

Because they were too weak

Due to fighting the C’tan

And the eldar were at their peak

So why bother

[plush mason]

killing gods aint easy

[vocal drum]

elders at that point would crush them?

[arctic talon]

It’s not worth ot

Yes

[shut thorn]

i had read the necrons went to sleep to allow the universe to repopulate otherwise the food/energy source would be depleted

that the ctan needed or somethin like that

[arctic talon]

The C’tan are sharded anyways

Slaves to the Necrons

The Necrons just want their bodies back in a lot of cases now

[vocal drum]

how the hell can necrons STIll be this strong AFTER a 60million sleep and some million year war and killing gods HOW MANY damn necrons are bloody left what the fuq/

[arctic talon]

Because

It isn’t just Necrons

They have constructs

And pretty much infinite resources

[plush mason]

"we turned our gods into pokemon" still one of the best flexes in sci fi

[arctic talon]

^

[vocal drum]

btw this is the book i bought for my first 40k book but its amazing

[arctic talon]

Me when I violently break apart my gods and shove them into vaults

[vocal drum]

u should check it out

[shut thorn]

theres 1 or 2 ctan that arent sharded right?

out of the 4 or 5?

[arctic talon]

Outsider

Is the only ones and

There’s a lot more then 5 C’tan

[vocal drum]

what are those ctan doing? the free ones

[shut thorn]

i barely know anything on necron lore, i JUST started looking at the wiki on them the other day

[arctic talon]

The outsider

Is sleeping

The other C’tan are all busy being enslaved

Lol

[shut thorn]

in one of the horus heresy books (i think), they had found a ctan shard

[arctic talon]

If a C’tan shard is freed the Necrons are gona try to shove it back into its box

[shut thorn]

or no not heresy

it was the ultramarines one

with uriel ventris

[vocal drum]

btw guys ima link this but i found this funny since i like necrons

i wanted to share this

[shut thorn]

called nightbringer

[arctic talon]

Yeah

It was a shard

[vocal drum]

this is hilarious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e60WaP5JnKU

[arctic talon]

[shut thorn]

a shard of a ctan is like "the left leg of exodia" or somethin like that ye?

[arctic talon]

More like

A cell of them

[shut thorn]

its a weak version of itself but when combined its op

[arctic talon]

There’s so many shards

Most shards are just used as a battery

Bigger ones are used as weapons

[vocal drum]

what happens if u free those c'tan

[arctic talon]

They kill you

Then the Necrons kill/capture it

[shut thorn]

lmfao

[vocal drum]

smh

this necron goes around STEALING from people

[arctic talon]

Or it wrecks havoc until damaged enough to no longer be a threat

[jagged monolith]

Read the Belisarius Cawl novel if you want to see more C'tan shard shenanigans

[plush mason]

they can kill the shards? i thought the last time they killed a C'tan very bad things happened to the universe or are the shards not strong enough for that to happen

[arctic talon]

Not really kill more just destroy the body of the shard

And then try to capture the essence

[plush mason]

ah

[arctic talon]

The essence is then used as a battery

I.E the silent king is wearing the flayed skin of the C’tan shard

Powering his big throne

[shut thorn]

isnt there something like, the necrons are working with some faction of the imperium for some reason now?

[arctic talon]

No

[plush mason]

ofc he has a throne

[vocal drum]

i still cant believe c'tan were so strong that they couldnt deal with the tyranid threat or couldnt care

[arctic talon]

Aside from giving they grey knights a bunch of tesseract labyrinths

And that’s only because the Necrons share a common threat

[vocal drum]

at least use ur god power to destroy tyranids

[arctic talon]

With the grey knights

[north lotus]

The only reason they teamed up temporarily at Cadia was the unarmed one was messing with necron shit

[arctic talon]

Who don’t give a shit about xenos that much

[shut thorn]

are the tyranids considered the biggest threat to everyone rn?

[arctic talon]

Nids and chaos

[vocal drum]

yes

[arctic talon]

Always

Necrons are becoming an issue

Because more and more dynasties are waking up more

[plush mason]

i mean, the nids where not in the milkyway 60 million years ago

[arctic talon]

^

This lol

[jagged monolith]

Necrons and Blood Angels allied briefly to kill tyranids

[vocal drum]

oh

[shut thorn]

itd be cool if the tabletop orks got to use krorks (unless they already have them)

[arctic talon]

Krorks don’t exist

Anymore

[north lotus]

As it turns out, a massive hole in the galaxy is a hell of a alarm clock

[arctic talon]

Aside from that 1 in trazyns museam

[vocal drum]

wait guys 60million years ago necron strength vs tyranids?

[shut thorn]

hey neither did the primarchs but they made a comeback!

[arctic talon]

Necrons sweep

[vocal drum]

even vs the hivemind?

[arctic talon]

The silent king destroyed all the necron super weapons

Used in the war in heaven lol

Their current “super weapons”

Aren’t even close to the best they had

[vocal drum]

wow i didnt know they were that powerful

[arctic talon]

The eldar and Necrons are by far the strongest at their peak

In terms of playable factions

[vocal drum]

what makes elder so strong in 40k universe?

[shut thorn]

eldar are prob one of the weakest now yea?

[arctic talon]

Nah

Eldar aren’t that weak

They just don’t wanna fight

[vocal drum]

they are a dying race like humans

[arctic talon]

Ever

[arctic talon]

Absurd psychic powers

[plush mason]

the necrons literally have a table that can be used to make any star in the milkyway explode with a simple press. thankfully the dynasty that controls it never uses it nor lets anyone else near it

[arctic talon]

Every eldar pre fall was a stronger psyker then any human or marine psyker lol

[shut thorn]

also lore conflict. in some books the shuriken weapons shred through space marines, in others they just dink off the armor like pebbles and get ignored, which is it

[arctic talon]

Also they could summon their gods to the material plane

Which is uh

A big fucking deal

Because they could just sick Khaine on you

[plush mason]

typical GW writing right there

[arctic talon]

Eh

Whoever is the one getting wanked

Gets the plot armor

[plush mason]

yup

[shut thorn]

lol

like sometimes theres slight variations in power but this one always bugged me with how extreme the difference was

[arctic talon]

But shuriken weapons in most good depictions are horrifying

Also all the eldar super weapons

Can’t be used anymore

Because 1. Vect has them

And 2. You need a powerful psyker

To use a ton of their power

[shut thorn]

so would tau be the current weakest?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[shut thorn]

and if so, who would be second weakest?

[arctic talon]

Second weakest

[vocal drum]

humans?

[arctic talon]

No

The imperium is really strong lol

Via numbers

[shut thorn]

i wanna say orks but i just dont know enough about em

theres a lot of nuances to them

[arctic talon]

Orks are an existential threat but they’re too stupid

There’s no clear 2nd weakest

To be honest

Because everyone is pretty far above the tau

[shut thorn]

yeah like if orks were organized and smarter, they be a way more massive threat

[vocal drum]

what if orks had human IQ

what then

[shut thorn]

they have insane numbers, innate psychic subconcious abilities, very physically strong

reproduce via spores

grow super fast too

they just fight eachother a lot and can rarely organize

[arctic talon]

I mean they do have humanish iq

They just don’t care

Their goals are very different from ours

[vocal drum]

cus they are just made for fighting

right?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[vocal drum]

and war

[arctic talon]

They wana fight and kill

[shut thorn]

i think the only times ive read of orks bein afraid of anything was involving tyranids and maybe necrons

they absolutely love fightin umies n spikey umies

[vocal drum]

so the war humanity is fighting are for its lost worlds controlled by corruption(like in game darktide nurguls ) or like tyranids? or civil wars or uprises?

[brittle slate]

Yeah but now that’s curbed.

[brittle slate]

Weakest on the galactic level by far. But in their corner they’re 2nd after necrons

Like tyranids are strongest galacticly but oddly weaker locally

[brittle slate]

Like during the War of the Beast

[brittle slate]

It’s kind of everything. Humanity lost roughly half its realm and is basically trying to keep the half it does have together.

[shut thorn]

i rember recently(somewhat) with the attack on terra/cadia, something happened to warp routes cause the astronomicon or something was silenced or destroyed or something preventing humanity from traversing the warp. what happened/is happening on that front?

[arctic talon]

The astronomicon turned off for a few weeks lol

And then it turned itself back on

[shut thorn]

ah ok it wasnt any like outside force that did it?

[arctic talon]

Well

Odds are the great rift opening did it

We dunno why the emperor turned it off

But he did

[shut thorn]

ahh gotcha

[echo vault]

The Tyranids are coming to turn off the astronomican so they can go to sleep

[shut thorn]

thought it was like sabotage or somethin

so humanity can travel again thats good

for the imperium and for chaos, which primarchs have shown up again/are still alive?

only ones i know of that are alive off the top of my head are roboute, angron, magnus

[vocal drum]

kinda wonder how strong humanity would be if AI didnt damn them

maybe we would reach necron levels

[arctic talon]

It wasn’t just AI lol

[vocal drum]

it was tho wasent it?

[arctic talon]

The fall of the eldar didn’t help

[shut thorn]

AI?

[arctic talon]

Along with the age of strife

[vocal drum]

it was the robots that turned on us no?

[arctic talon]

It was a bunch of shit

All one after another

That caused issues

[shut thorn]

wait humanities ai turned on it?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[earnest snow]

Door Dash suspiciously having high psyker possession rates didn't help either

[vocal drum]

yes

[arctic talon]

Humanity would have been fine

[shut thorn]

i never heard about that

[arctic talon]

If it was just the men of iron revolting

But it was so much more

[earnest snow]

Its the entire reason why AI is heretical

[arctic talon]

Warp travel stopped working

Bunch of warp storms happened

Mass birth of psykers

And a total collapse of supply chains

[shut thorn]

i never even knew about ai bein heretical but ive also never heard of ai existing in 40k so that would make sense, but yeah ive never heard anything about that before

[arctic talon]

Tau have AI

Any sort of “AI” humanity has is dumb ai

Or a brain

[shut thorn]

was this AI revolt during the horus heresy?

or before it

[arctic talon]

No

Dark age of technology

[shut thorn]

ohh

[earnest snow]

Way before 30k

[shut thorn]

that would explain why i never read anything about it before

some heresy stuff is the furthest back i have any knowledge of in lore

[earnest snow]

The lore goes way back to the two wars in heaven and what not. Alongside the potential origins of the Emperor, etc etc.

[iron locust]

If you think about it the necron army is a conscript army

[brittle slate]

Men of iron stone gold ect

[rose gyro]

this AI stuff is basically a rip off from Dune

[brittle slate]

It’s why everyone in the galaxy is afraid of ai

[rose gyro]

as a background setting

[rose thorn]

plays Total warhammer 2 oh hey what are these ork clans!

…

Oh my fucking god all of 40k’s ork clans are just copy pasted

[rose gyro]

40K is Warhammer Fantasy in space

[brittle slate]

Eh. 25th m

[rose thorn]

I’ve been realizing that after learning the aelf lore

[brittle slate]

It used to be one universe

[rose gyro]

you mean ELF, right?

[rose thorn]

Isn’t it Aelf?

[brittle slate]

lol

[rose gyro]

you are corrupted by Age of Sigmar

[rose thorn]

AOS IS GOOD

[brittle slate]

The great copywriting of the 2018

[rose thorn]

Yes

[brittle slate]

Spase Morrines!

[rose thorn]

I respect the AOS’ copy right

[brittle slate]

T’a’u

[rose thorn]

Dwarden

Humans

[brittle slate]

Such bs

[rose thorn]

Orruks

[brittle slate]

Lol!

[rose gyro]

Humies

[brittle slate]

The Emmmphuror

[rose thorn]

They are all just someone who speaks English as a 4th language writing fantasy names

Based off of sound alone

[rose gyro]

which is BS

[rose thorn]

It’s funny tbh

Except orruk

Orruk is dumb

[rose gyro]

I'm much into the Old World

[rose thorn]

What was the fancy names of the vampires?

[rose gyro]

where things were at it should be

[rose gyro]

blightlords or something

[rose thorn]

AHHHH soulblight

I thought that was just a slur for them

[rose gyro]

Soulblight Gravelords

you know they could just name them Vampyres

[brittle slate]

All hail.

[brittle slate]

Reckoning would be after them.

They’d lose the goth vote.

[rose gyro]

brrrrrrrrr

[brittle slate]

Vampyrys… there. Fixed it.

[rose thorn]

It was already taken lmao

By a movie called vampyres

[arctic talon]

Also ngl soulblight gravelords as a name

Goes pretty hard lol

Aside from the fact it doesn’t sound like vampires what so ever

[shut thorn]

makes me think of zombies n necromancers

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[plush mason]

well in warhammer vampires are also masters of necromancy

granted that is true with most fantasy settings

[celest dome]

Didn't the Vampire in fantasy use the name Blood Court or something ?

[storm jungle]

no its just Vampire Counts

Fantasy had a lot of common Fantasy names/terms, its AoS where they tried to pretty much copyright every faction's name with their own unique letterngs.

[earnest snow]

Idk anything about AoS other than that it sometimes looks suspiciously like its space fairing counterpart

[summer rover]

that's because it's wizard van 40k

[storm jungle]

Its really not lol

thats pretty much same as saying star wars is warhammer because it has aliens in it

[celest dome]

The only offender are the Sigmarine to be honest

[earnest snow]

But Star Wars is Warham-

[storm jungle]

DAURGH-

[arctic talon]

Honestly they don’t look that space mariney to me

They just look like Order chaos warriors

Then again chaos warriors are the origin of space marines so

Yeah that sorta goes full circle huh

[storm jungle]

The stormcasts definitely started out as fantasy space marines but they have really moved away from that after a proper overhaul

now as said above they are pretty much Order chaos-warriors

[arctic talon]

Yeah

The new stormcast sculpts are alot better

And feel like their own thing

Also the fact they have “blessings” from sigmar

[celest dome]

At first people were always calling them Sigmarine and Groundmarine for a reason, they were very different from the order factions we had in Fantasy

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[rose gyro]

Crimson Court

Midnight Aristocracy

||Sons of Sanguinius||

[barren tapir]

I like to call them Fokken bloodsucker... Or simply suckers

[weak fossil]

Wasn't there something about chaos or skaven showing up to battle with bolters back in the day because they pulled them out of the warp?

[celest dome]

Just Chaos, and Amazonian

So in theory the Old Ones had them

[north lotus]

One thing I have to wish darktide did was have detailed modifications from dark heresy

[rose gyro]

we need Tank Ace the most now

who has the ability of using a Leman Russ main battletank

[north lotus]

not viable, I'm refering to the attachments from dark heresy

[barren tapir]

In an old blog that was exactly what they said Darktide would have, gun customization with accessories... That was also why so many were interested in it in the first place i bet

[north lotus]

auxiliary grenade launcher, preysense sight (thermal sight), omniscope (halo smart link sight), photo sight (night vision scope), fire selector, telescopic sight (low power variable optic), hotshot charge pak.

[north lotus]

things like this are basic

[barren tapir]

Yeah, it is still hilarious to me that they say not like COD when saying no gun customization... Like, that is the only good part of COD lol

[north lotus]

backpack ammo supply (no reloads),expanded mags, exterminator (single shot fire shotgun), bipod.

[barren tapir]

Backpack ammo would prevent to use a normal backpack, you know, the ones that are bought with real money... So that take priority

[north lotus]

doesn't have to be a big bag, could be a buttbag

[north lotus]

also the backpack means no custom ammo

[celest dome]

I still think that the Hellgun will become a class ability or Blitz

Like Stormtrooper class with Krak impact Grenade and a Hellgun working like the Outcast Engineer Minigun

And I don't think they'll care about the backpack

[barren tapir]

Krak grenade is for the squad leader class it seems

[barren tapir]

TBF only certain hot shot lasgun patterns use a backpack as ammo

[celest dome]

Just Krak Grenade, but we might see multiple classes with the same Grenade type but working differently

[barren tapir]

Could be

[celest dome]

Like impact Grenade would be quite different and they don't really have a named one in 40k

[brittle slate]

doesn't the gunner have one?

[north lotus]

Yes.

[brittle slate]

Basically just dual lasguns. I always feel like they're shooting bullets at me though

[signal bramble]

Not exactly.

[mystic geyser]

It's not a hellgun, it's a hot shot volley gun

[signal bramble]

^

A hellgun is meant to fire a stronger charge at the cost of more energy.

The lucius lasgun is a good example with it's charge shot.

That's close to what a hellgun should be.

[brittle slate]

Ah

but the hotshot volley gun should still be shooting lasers

i feel like in game these guys are always shooting bullets

either way- the lucius lasgun feels absolutely useless right now so something that has a higher rate of fire but the same mechanic would be a better try

and sorry- this isn't a lore thing

[mystic geyser]

I feel like the helmets the scab gunners have are a reference to something, but i can't work it out. Not a 40k model I can think of anyway.

[arctic talon]

Nurgle symbol?

Oh wait

Not 40k

Splinter cell

[mystic geyser]

The 3 eyed goggles is nurgle, I mean the helmet style

Now I'm wondering how the Heck the goggles in Splinter cell are meant to work

[arctic talon]

Nightvision goggles

they're based on irl ones

[obsidian marten]

!play B.O.T.A (baddest of them all)

[signal bramble]

Killzone to me.

They make me think helghast.

[brittle slate]

On a total side note, I didn't realize this but Kronos is one of the original 500 worlds of the Realm of Ultramar (the world from Dawn of War)

Reading up on it now and it's got one of the most interesting and sordid histories of a minor planet I've ever read about in 40k

[arctic talon]

yeah its neat

[barren tapir]

Kronus

And i doubt it was part of the ultramar empire

[honest trellis]

Kronus got a short story

[upbeat dagger]

is the "i'm a tank" story canon?

[arctic talon]

No

[upbeat dagger]

the one with guardsmen fighting orcs by convincing the orcs that they still have ammo

[celest dome]

also no

Ork power is much more tame than that

[dusk patrol]

Yeah it’s more like a slightly tilting of the odds in their favor

Than complex reality warping

Bigger the waaggghh and all that the more effect it has but it doesn’t do what most of the fandom thinks it does

And it’s localized

[upbeat dagger]

another one i've heard of is some orcs trying to run from blood angels, which they absolutely should've been able to do, but the blood angels impossibly caught up because red go fast

[brittle slate]

in the heresy, something called the Pavonis Archive

[brittle slate]

Kronus is described as being part of the 500 worlds in that Horus Heresy short story, Inheritor

[crisp heath]

Ork tech doesn't work because they believe it does, but it does work a little better because they believe it does

@upbeat dagger

A good example is it's implied that Yarrick's augments (The Bale Eye and a stolen powerklaw) work because Orks fear and respect him, but they're both fully functional bits of technology, the main reason to think it augment is affected by Ork belief is because no other human properly uses a powerklaw

[upbeat dagger]

huh, near

*neat

[crisp heath]

Weirdboys can do a bit more with it, but they're psykers anyway so

http://paulprofherbert.com/Gallery/images/Foot of Gork.jpg

Weirdboyz can do shit like this, even though that's fantasy art

[north lotus]

Specifically binocular type ones.

[arctic talon]

That spell is in 40k as well

Good ol foot of gork

[crisp heath]

Yeah, it's DA KRUNCH in 40k

[north lotus]

Biocular is things like the pvs-7

[north lotus]

Spoilers: cyclops don’t have depth perception.

Potentially pvs 31’s, but they mistook a battery cap for a third lense

[north lotus]

Note: this came out in the 1980’s

Yes, it’s a piece of shit, but it’s non digital and looks cool. Digital nightvision is the worst

I could go further into the autism, but let’s just say I’m not physically experienced.

Now when it comes to night vision optics it’s going to get expensive extraordinarily quick

[celest dome]

I got to use thermals once

[storm jungle]

Always hated the amount of detail on that foot

DeviantArt tier

[dusk patrol]

Wdym

[north lotus]

But basically your night vision options are as such, excluding white light options from worst to best (not going into specifics)

• Digital Chinese night camera (bad idea no matter what choice, probably is lower generation and with that comes stop gap solutions like IR lightbulbs which effectively project a shit ton of light that higher generation nods can clearly see)

-Starlight scopes {aka gen 1 NVG’s} (see Russian NSP-2 optic, American pvs-2 scope as examples. A bad option, but they at least don’t have refresh rate issues like digital options…also heavy as shit. Only buy if you’re a retro person)

-gen 2 or 3 weapon mounted night vision (think pvs 4 nvg or it’s Russian equivalent. typically lack IR assistant light, tend to actually be pretty decent in a “mg or sniper on a chokepoint” role. Still heavy but actually decent for a modern role.

-gen 3 biocular night vision (now it’s headmounted, but it’s a bad idea to use due to the fact cyclop’s rarely have depth perception. Minimum tech for a night rifle user…don’t try running around with the equipment on)

-monocular gen 3 (actually decent, but pirates are still bad at depth perception. Don’t do this, and just get enough money for the binocular option)

-binocular gen 3 (modern night fighting tier optics. One of the least heavy but they’re actually good for night fighting at close to medium range.)

[dusk patrol]

The feet’s are the most important part

Now if you’ll excuse me I have a violent and bloody movie with well done dialogue to direct and write

[crisp heath]

Gork should be a streamer tbh

[north lotus]

This concludes the autism rant on nightvision quality

[north lotus]

Also it’s likely that the snipers in game use some sort of magnified gen2/3 night vision option. Hence why they can be seen in lights out missions.
When it comes to the mobian sixth, it’s likely they’re using triocular night vision of a sort.

[north lotus]

Now another thing i forgot To mention is that gen 1 and early gen 2 night vision may not have auto-gating, which is for context is a system that Night vision devices have which automatically shuts off the device when excess of light could damage the optic.

[hot moth]

I like the idea that they have magic power but they use it to still do physical violence

[brittle slate]

there's a great theory that the reason that orks don't have daemons in the warp is that they are the daemons

instead of thoughts/emotions feeding and manifesting into daemonic intelligences that energy feedbacks into individuals of the race

pretty fucking awesome

[mystic geyser]

There was me just assuming that because they were nurlgites they had 3 eyes

[mystic geyser]

OK so the mystery of the scab gunner helmet solved (in the meme channel of all places) looks like a slightly chaosified steel legion sergeant helmet.

(Which will be of course next to impossible to obtain.. without printing anyway...)

[tranquil summit]

Found a nice reddit comment of "how to get into 40K"
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/wjgx7c/comment/ijh8pej/

[sudden kelp]

good post

[honest trellis]

Say, Darktide fans. Hypothetically, if you could have ANY short story related to Darktide...What would you want?

[north lotus]

Here’s what style I’d want it to be written: all guardsmen party

[honest trellis]

So a Guard story set in Darktide?

[north lotus]

You ever hear of the all guardsmen party?

[honest trellis]

Yeah, read it years back

[north lotus]

A story from the perspective of the group in the situation.

I’d recommend from the perspective of a guardsmen, as it’s easier to write

[earnest snow]

I'd have a short story of them continuing to develop their game

[north lotus]

You don’t want development to be short

[earnest snow]

Then its being upgraded to a novel

In all seriousness, I'd expand into the sister city one of the veteran personalities talks to Morrow about. See how its going along. Or a story into Zola's life on Atoma prior to being part of the Warband. Or into Morrow's genestealer backstory that is rumored about among the player characters.

[plain bolt]

I'd like to learn more about psykers and their roles in the imperium.

[north lotus]

that'd work to, I would find that interesting

[serene mist]

Gimme a Hadron story

[prime tapir]

While they’re used in war to an extent, which is flashy and cool. But the greatest service they provide to the imperium is allowing for Faster Than Light communication.

Telepathy trumps all

[serene mist]

Also for Faster Than Light travel

[quick wolf]

Also food

[serene mist]

Not food, no

Don't eat the exploding human

Bad

[earnest snow]

If you believe Inquisitorial propaganda, then it would be dying so the emperor sits on the golden toilet throne

[quick wolf]

The Golden Throne must consume

[prime tapir]

Yeah, but the mutantabhuman navigators take care of that nowadays.

[serene mist]

Well that's just a thousand a day of the shittier psykers

So big whoop

[serene mist]

Human Navigators are psykers though

That's their whole shtick

Third eye go brr

[quick wolf]

What's a billion souls to the continued existence of the Imperium?

[earnest snow]

They have that weird ass eye ball and some wild psychic energy going on

[prime tapir]

Being made into energy drinks for the evil galactic golden space lich is not much of a service.

[serene mist]

I mean it's pretty useful considering you need that

[earnest snow]

Tbh if I met a navigator too I'd go bat shit from seeing a third eye on someone too.

Not the fact the eye did some whacky stuff

[prime tapir]

If you see the eye it’s already too late :p

[earnest snow]

It is

[serene mist]

tbh you're just dead at that point

[quick wolf]

You better believe Cassia is gonna be my first romance attempt in Rogue Trader

[north lotus]

It’s understandable how the “death to the mutant” line came to be.

To a extent

[earnest snow]

Still won't stop me from doing a shopping spree. I will show that navigator crazy

[prime tapir]

Dunno if they retconned this, but navigators pretty much turn into chaos spawn as they grow older.

Keeps em locked up in the basement in good ol terra

[earnest snow]

Why not just toss em aside? Unless they want to preserve the chaos spawn for experimental reasons? Genetic reasons? O.o

[prime tapir]

They’re their relatives, they probably don’t have the heart.

[earnest snow]

Having a heart in MY imperium!? I guess it makes sense if you grew up with another person who happens to have the same mutation as you do.

[prime tapir]

And the navigator houses are afforded a lot of leeway from the rules.

If this happened to anyone else things would look very differently.

[earnest snow]

I wonder how it's like meeting your relatives. "Here is your uncle jimmy." chaos spawn noises "He isn't very friendly for the past few days. So watch out." tentacle slaps a window

Must be awkward or terrifying

[prime tapir]

Especially as the third mouth in its abdomen starts whispering in Jimmy’s voice

[earnest snow]

They're tempted by the promises of the brownies he once made

[prime tapir]

Prying brownie recipes from chaos spawns is a short story I’d read!

But I imagine it’s a gradual transformation. Before lucidity leaves they’ll be begging for the incinerator.

[ripe ravine]

I'm not sure if they retconned the chaospawn thing or not, but most of the time navigators eventually burn out so it probably isn't super common

gotta be a pretty powerful navigator to make it to old age

[serene mist]

That or just outright Chaos-y boi

[brittle slate]

The backstory

[serene mist]

In which case you lurk about a bigass miasma of liquid eating people as your body becomes "Not fucking human"

[honest trellis]

Okay def fair POVs, but lemme ask a revised question: What Darktide-ish story would y'all like NOT about specific existing canon characters? 🤣

[serene mist]

I want stories from "The Garrison"

The guys we see at the starts of missions

I want to see a story about a Leman Russ crew from the Atoma Garrison from the very start of the issue

[honest trellis]

Oh, like PDF when things just started going to shit?

Without context for what's really going on?

[serene mist]

Yes

[rough path]

ive been trying to figure this out for a long time but i swear i remember a story of like a planets people being turned into sewers or something but cant find any mention of it anywhere, am i crazy or not"?

[wary thunder]

Tau really got a good stuff compare to Iom

Mass - Brainwash Psychic xeno and Giant that can toe to toe with titan allied

[brittle slate]

Yeah the charpactin are probably the most powerful xenos in the setting

[wary thunder]

Space marine get primaris ig get new tank

[signal bramble]

Not quite. Their mind stuff only seems to work on their own species. So it’s not true psychic control.

[brittle slate]

First off tau don’t have mind abilities

[signal bramble]

I abide by the theory that it’s some kind of pheromone or biological process.

[brittle slate]

Second I think they’re talking about their Allies the charpactin

[wary thunder]

Gw must really love tau

[brittle slate]

Tau communicate via pheromones.

[signal bramble]

Oh I misunderstood.

[brittle slate]

They don’t lol

https://youtu.be/JdqJ1UQTays

Also- totally genestealers

[signal bramble]

The new shadowsun book could have only been created by one with absolute contempt for the Tau.

[signal bramble]

Never existed means daemons.

[brittle slate]

Yes.

[signal bramble]

They’re called the Neverborn.

[brittle slate]

Never been human

[signal bramble]

I think it’s potentially more daemons.

[brittle slate]

Hm. Yeah plaguebearers.

But that seems way way op

Like space marines

[signal bramble]

I don’t expect a new enemy faction to get introduced in a patch.

[wary thunder]

too early for new faction imo

[brittle slate]

That makes sense

[signal bramble]

Not really. They’re the rank and file of Nurgle’s legions.

Technically the beast of nurgle is more powerful than plaguebearers.

[brittle slate]

Yes and you need greyknights to fight them

[wary thunder]

i feel like reject is a inquistion secret project

[signal bramble]

Nah. Regular soldiers take them down in the books.

[brittle slate]

Hm

[wary thunder]

testing new kind of blessing , technology

toughness = emperor protection or some sort

[brittle slate]

Then yeah, plaguebearers.

Seems kind of lackluster for a patch

But you’re right

[signal bramble]

Plaguebearers have solid melee and a cloud of flies to make it harder to hit them.

On the tabletop.

[wary thunder]

still genestealer kinda blend well with this game

[signal bramble]

More daemons is pretty significant from a lore perspective.

[brittle slate]

Tabletop isn’t a good comparison though

Never is

[signal bramble]

I agree. They’re a perfect enemy for a major expansion

[wary thunder]

but i don't think fat shark will give new faction of enemy for free

[brittle slate]

This game has no lore as of yet

[signal bramble]

Yeah but it says in their lore codex.

[brittle slate]

Not really.

[serene mist]

What are those flies that Nurglites love

Massive things, very nasty

[brittle slate]

Mmmm

[serene mist]

Imagine if the update is a flying enemy

Darting about

[brittle slate]

Rot flies

[serene mist]

Yeah

[brittle slate]

That’d be worse than hounds

[serene mist]

Massive middle finger to melee bois

Yep

[serene mist]

It would be very unfun

Just the sorta thing to get an update with

[signal bramble]

This game no. But in the larger context of 40k, daemon manifestations of any kind is a massive deal.

The mere presence of the beast of nurgle is bad but plaguebearers to? The implications are massive.

[serene mist]

Could mean more classes available as other forces get involves. People seconded to the Warband

That is the hope at least

[brittle slate]

right which don't get handled by "rejects" you know?

there's a power level aspect that's been really balanced so far

no space marines

no... um, daemon princes lol

[honest trellis]

also a daemonhost implies lots of bad knowledge

I don't think the rejects ever killed anyone that qualified as a daemonologist.......

[brittle slate]

oddly the daemonhost i'm ok with because of gaunt's ghosts

[honest trellis]

wirewolves are something else

[signal bramble]

Again, low level nurgle daemons aren’t that difficult strictly speaking.

[honest trellis]

daemonhosts take skill to summon

and forbidden lore

[serene mist]

Daemonhost is annoying as fuck to fight

[signal bramble]

But if they’re able to enter the material realm it means there’s an open warp portal somewhere.

And the longer it’s opened things will get worse.

[honest trellis]

them existing implies things about someone very nasty in the nurgle force

[brittle slate]

but yes, the reviews have been extremely scathing.

[serene mist]

Low level Nurgle daemons are never in single numbers they go in swarms

[honest trellis]

like sure the Scabs are basically just blood pact

but lorewise there's gotta be someone who's learned a LOT of forbidden lore pulling the strings

[serene mist]

They also have a helluva time giving everyone nearby disease

[signal bramble]

It legit kind of ruins the faction ngl.

[serene mist]

Lords of Silence showed that

[signal bramble]

Kind of like how the Catachan devil book made the Catachan regiment look stupid af and made them lose any cool factor for me.

[serene mist]

That bad, really?

[signal bramble]

Yes. I will show you what the catachans do. It’s not a spoiler but it actually does happen.

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-seishun-kyousoukyoku-naruto-run-run-neji-gif-22614495

Yes really.

[serene mist]

What

[signal bramble]

The catachans actually Naruto run and it is described in vivid detail.

[serene mist]

Like...straight up Naruto run charging something?

Was the writer an idiot

[signal bramble]

Yes.

[serene mist]

Nice

[signal bramble]

Apparently that’s their standard charge method. They Naruto run in a Flying V like ducks.

[serene mist]

Nice

And by nice
I mean what in God's green earth

[signal bramble]

Like I said. Once that happened I couldn’t get the image out of my head and couldn’t take them seriously ever again.

[serene mist]

Gg

Coolness successfully assassinated

[signal bramble]

Pretty much. Up until then I actually thought they were cool.

[thick cedar]

Is Psyker fire usually bluish-white?

[serene mist]

I think it varies

[arctic talon]

depends on how they're feeling

[hollow sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/40k-warhammer-tts-kitten-canon-gif-16263403

[velvet imp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttt1GbFD8T8

[brittle slate]

he's phil kelly... he's a fucking hack

makes matt ward look like john the baptist

[serene mist]

That's a helluva statement

[brittle slate]

it doesn't just unravel a lot of tau lore

it unravels 40k itself

[serene mist]

Oh

...wow yeah

[brittle slate]

it's like they cockslapped kelly and didn't give him 40k end times

so he took it out on these farsight/shadowsun books

and everyone that is in the know hates him for it

like death guard should feel especially bad

[serene mist]

What happened to them

[brittle slate]

so nurgle's the eldest chaos god

and his followers are extremely resilient (kind of their thing right?)

but his followers are also noted as being particularly dedicated to the concepts of nurgle

(you have to be don't you you're a walking pussbag)

[serene mist]

Nurgle isn't the eldest

That goes to Slaanesh with her birth

I think

[brittle slate]

that's that weird realms of chaos book i think that says they were born in the dark ages- i don't vibe with that

but it's also irrelevant to this:

in Shadowsun kelly invents a goddess that is the embodiment of the aliens who worship the greater good (which is a fucking philosophy mind you) as a god.

They do so by praying to it in the identical way that people pray to the emperor. They don't sacrifice to it, they don't build temples to it. they sit on their bedsides and pray to it.

So none of the ways that "empower" chaos entities. "gold" faith, just like the emperor.

[crisp heath]

Isn't slaanesh the youngest

[serene mist]

I vibe more with the Eldar f*cking Slaanesh into existence and knock-on effects causing the other Chaos gods to form

[brittle slate]

doesn't make sense since they were born during the initial war in heaven- but it doesn't matter

[serene mist]

...Kelly is an odd sort

Because wtf

[brittle slate]

Yet GGG (greater good goddess) basically curbstomps every single nurgle daemon/space marine in the heart of a plague battleship

[serene mist]

Is she then revealed to actually be a Tzeentch Daemon

Please

[brittle slate]

utterly and completely. four random aliens pray to the GGG and they just obliterate everyone with golden feel good power

[brittle slate]

no.

[serene mist]

Fuck

[brittle slate]

she also exists in real space.

she saved shadowsun 260 from drowning...

[serene mist]

That ain't how gods work

What

[brittle slate]

yeah

[serene mist]

Is Kelly an idiot

[brittle slate]

he just doesn't know what the fuck he's doing and should stick to fantasy which he's good at

the problem is, he writes tau lore the way imperial fans like tau (thoughtlessly and derpy levels of evil)

so no one bothers with any of the other lore because the farsight books exists

despite the fact that kelly doesn't bother even reading the tau codexes for facts

[serene mist]

Lmao

[shut thorn]

how is that allowed to be published if its so conflicting with canon

[plush mason]

because GW doesnt give a fuck so long as it isnt effecting sales

[north lotus]

Considering it’s the moebian sixth, it’s likely the point of access was out on campaign.

[plush mason]

hell if some non canon warhammer stuff sells really well GW will make it canon

like they did with the blood ravens

[north lotus]

So they might have gotten some people whom were far more educated than them on the outside. Maybe it’s a sabbat worlds campaign situation in the sector

[north lotus]

We don’t talk about them, even if we wish they made a third game.

[brittle slate]

BL/GW doesn't really work like that

there isn't a lore "tsar" who makes sure everything lines up

it's just authors who sometimes work together

[north lotus]

You can really see that with the Horus heresy

[mystic geyser]

They actually do have a lore tsar, usually. Like Allan Merrit or Laurie Goulding.

How much they work on every novel or adaptation I don't know though

[brittle slate]

They don't seem to do any kind of quality, or, coherency work

at least not on the stuff i've seen

Alan Merrit seems to focus on 30k

[mystic geyser]

I mean, there's usually a consistent effort... but can't say I bother reading 40k xenos side novels much.

[brittle slate]

i think that's the general consensus

[storm jungle]

Eyo new lore drop

https://youtu.be/LYNkH46C2x4

Also TLDR for anyone:

"Abaddon's on a giant galactic easter-egg hunt to collect all the pokemons so Vashtorr can make them into megazord. It's chaos versus literally everybody else including sometimes themselves at various random sites around the galaxy and the defenders are only just waking up to what might be happening."

[brittle slate]

...

1. Early in the 42nd millennium (but no one knows for sure) ... cheap

2. Plague Wars are over

3. Vigilus has been fought. A Inquisitor world with a data vault with an unpronouncible name is attacked. they hack the vault- fight- they come across an evil looking thingy. He returns to Abbaddon's flagship.

4. The whole ship starts to convulse and silvery worms spread throughout the ship. They find a summoning vortex and Vashtor comes in.

5. He is not a daemon, he is specifically a demi-god. He's always been around but has manifested rarely. The page shown indicates he might have manifested during an arms race that sounds like the war in heaven or the dark age of technology.

6. The chaotic embodiment of invention. He's basically the less demigod of soul grinders. the arms dealer. He wants to be the 5th god.

7. abbaddon is looking for a silver key to unlock an ancient horror. Vashtorr says he knows about it. They go to a planet and kill the last of a chapter of space marines and wipe them out. They recover an artifact that he'll need more devices to make the key.

8. Vashtor gets a bunch of hulks, Abbaddon puts a hit out on these artifacts. They are fitted with wardings to keep them loyal. Fleshmetal gangliaxos to make them work and warp portals to get them to move.

[dusk patrol]

Also one of the Arks is found by Dante which is heavily implied to have been cleared out by Watchers and maybe the Lion.

[storm jungle]

Yeah I saw Dante in an artwork in the vid too so that explains it

also damn the jawas dont fuck around

[dusk patrol]

Dogshit quality

[brittle slate]

9. They're basically mini astronomicons allowing chaos fleets to navigate by (i guess everyone needs astronomicons these days).

[dusk patrol]

But they find remains which generally are associated with the watchers, bolter fire, and wounds from "a massive blade"

[storm jungle]

ah got it

[dusk patrol]

But that could be anybody

Tfw you're excited to finally get command of a large expedition from Abbadon himself, and then some fucking jawas and a primarch who just woke up from a 10,000 year nap and is pissed about it show up.

[brittle slate]

10. Sisters and Black Templars fight one in Cortosis. Forgeworld of Graia. Kraken is attacked. Vol Tombworld is also hit.

Eldar realize that this is a coordinated assault and ally with Dante and the inquisition to try and stop the Arks.

11. ... Angron is dispatched by Abbaddon- that's where it basically ends.

[storm jungle]

yeah, again, setup book

good way to milk it lol

[dusk patrol]

Reminds me of in Pandorax where this one Black Legion marine gets mobbed, just joints all stabbed up, one of his eyes stabbed out by a crowbar, and he finally manages to break out of it and kill the crew trying to overload the ships warp core.....and then Kaldor fucking Draigo spawns in behind him and one shots him.

Man wasn't having a good day.

[storm jungle]

Lmao

I remember that, that guy was a mood

[dusk patrol]

Also I guess the Alpha Legion has been entrusted by Abaddon to ensure all the keys get found and brought back if all else fails.

Unclear what he offered them so that he trusts them to do it, or that they would be willing to.

[fallen marsh]

They will probably do Alpha Legion sheningans so whole plans fails in the end.

You need to be really desperate to trust them

[storm jungle]

Its not desperation

Alpha Legion are fully chaos devoted

[dusk patrol]

Failsafe in this case.

[storm jungle]

^

[dusk patrol]

But whats unclear is why he's trusting them and what he has that he thinks they'll hold up their end

Word Bearers and Red Corsairs both destroy an Ark too

[storm jungle]

Basically the writers just using the Alphas as the infiltrator-legion-trope

[dusk patrol]

Word Bearers because they consider it an affront, probably because the Vash guy ain't one of the four.

Red Corsairs cause they're Red Corsairs

[fallen marsh]

Being chaos devoted is one thing, being bunch of treacherous bastards is another.

[storm jungle]

[dusk patrol]

Well that's the million dollar question

Basically this is all just setup

Some of it probably won't be addressed again but it gives room for stuff to progress.

[storm jungle]

Yeah the real stuff will go down in Angron and Vashtorr's book prob

[storm jungle]

Yeee as far as I can tell this is a galaxy-wide event?

not like Nachmund where its literally one spot in the map

[dusk patrol]

Seems to be

Also they don't need to collect all the keys to "win"

Its just more = Better results

And faster

Whatever that means

But basically it lets the Black Legion and Co fight anyone anywhere for these keys and also probably gives a reason for the Lion to show up again, which is how its looking.

[plush mason]

so there is something i have heard a few times now and im not sure what it really is, the "plague of unbelief". what is it exactly and why did Nurgle make it

[dusk patrol]

So its not like a plague I don't believe

[plush mason]

because "unbelief" sounds like it would be just as deadly to Nurgle as it would be to the emperor

[dusk patrol]

It was an age after Vandire where lots of false prophets rose

And it caused an issue with the Imperium splitting

It was a time period rather than an actual disease

[plush mason]

ah

[dusk patrol]

Basically a story following some attempted prophets and saints who had large movements but fucked it up.

I think the Abyssal Crusade might be linked to that too?

[plush mason]

my only real exposure to it is from BFGA2 where the deathguard "spread the plague of unbelief" to some worlds they ransacked after cadia fell

[dusk patrol]

But after Goge Vandire the Imperium got split on doctrine and who to follow and it had a schism between multiple factions.

[dusk patrol]

That refers to the Zombie Plague I believe

[plush mason]

ah

[dusk patrol]

Which doesn't affect those with 100% belief in the Emperor.

[plush mason]

i see

makes sense the imperium would call it a plague of unbelief then

[dusk patrol]

But typically the Plague of Unbelief thing refers to that time period.

[plush mason]

i see

[dusk patrol]

Unless of course it doesn't

https://tenor.com/view/rainbow-spongebob-happy-gif-12404177

"40k lore"

[plush mason]

yes

[dusk patrol]

I really like the name for the time period though

40k always has banger names for events

Devastation of Baal

The Primarch's Scourge

Dropsite Massacre

The Beheading

[plush mason]

wtf was the name of the age Vandire ruled?

[dusk patrol]

Age of Apostasy I believe

Reign of Blood for Vandire's rule

And Plague of Unbelief for the aftermath

I really like Vandire as a character too because he starts out, almost justified and heroic

[plush mason]

in reference to Apostates or Apostles?

[dusk patrol]

Apostates

But when he first started out he was doing a lot of good reforms and getting shit done, removing corruption and improving the Imperium.

And then he just kept taking more and more power and went crazy overtime

[plush mason]

well an Apostasy is a founding of new apostles so

[dusk patrol]

Might be referencing the changes in the church then

With figures like Sebastien Thor

So I assume this is what its referring to

[plush mason]

must be

i think i got it mixed up with another word

[dusk patrol]

Its one of my favorite little eras in 40k

Feels like a real historic event magnified to 40k proportions

Everyone involved is mostly normies

With only a few exceptions

[barren tapir]

Plague of unbelief refer to two very different things, one is the aftermath of the age of apostasy, when everyone felt to be the true voice of the emperor and went ballistic, the other thing is a nurgle plague that affected those people that were much religious, although it is more a random thing honestly... The nurgle thing was called so because the imperium is a religious shithole and link pretty much all bad things to lack of faith, even when it has nothing to do with so

So, the arks are just space hulks that are put into work by some warp BS... And they mentioned SM and sob boarding them... Feel like BS to me

Especially the sob part

Having all these boarding actions and no spotlight for elysians is weird and painful to watch

[fallen marsh]

Well they are light drop troops. Not very suited to boarding actions.

[barren tapir]

Wrong, they are specialist in boarding actions

[barren tapir]

The Elysia system and surrounding wilderness space is notorious for its marauding Ork warbands and pirates, as a main trade route through the sector passes through Elysia, and the system's many swirling gas clouds and hundreds of asteroid fields provide perfect ambush sites. Through combating this ever-present threat, the Elysians are therefore well trained in ship-to-ship boarding actions, and fighting in concert with orbital support when attacking isolated pirate bases.

[echo vault]

Where the fuck are the Elysians we need more of them

[barren tapir]

Each drop trooper is trained extensively in the use of demolitions, as these weapons are commonly deployed during ship-to-ship boarding actions and against enemy vehicles and installations. This includes the operation of the Cyclops Demolition Vehicle.

[echo vault]

They used to all be just forge world exclusive things, which sucks bring them to plastic

[barren tapir]

Elysian are all about boarding actions, the reason they are drop troops is because that is how they deploy when conducting land actions

And elysians also work closely with the imperial navy, so they would be the best option to board as many arks possible, with the support of imperial navy breachers themself

But noooooo, fucking SM and sob had to steal another spotlight, especially the sob, since the SM were stated to conduct space hulk boarding too

[echo vault]

What's a Warhammer weapon that you would only describe as a doohickey, here's a meme example of course

[fallen marsh]

Looking at their product line you would never guess that.

They don't give the vibe of the boarding teams like those from Navy or Heresy breachers

[dusk patrol]

We almost never see them do it in lore

They’re mostly just depicted as drop troops, and favor urban environments but it varies

But their training effectively is repelling pirates around their sector

[barren tapir]

Victim of their time

For sure they would look way better if they were to be made now

And they became the drop troops example because once there was no boarding thing happening, it was always land combat

Only recently GW found out that they could do combat within ships and would be similar to land combat

Although not in a line infantry style like they did with land combat in WH40K anyway

[brittle slate]

Yeah, it’s odd for me to defend a decision to put the “money makers” first but space hulks are supposed to be some of the most dangerous places in 40k

And these ones are active and filled to the gills with a coordinated army on the inside that actually has awareness of the whole floating island

Terminators are supposed to be the designated group that goes into them- so I think it’s weird they aren’t mentioned

But then I guess they don’t have models you can buy. Like the elysians.

[barren tapir]

We had space hulks being boarded by IG before, and they had to fight against jeansltealers and orks too... SM could be fine as choice, since they did that quite often too, but sob? Really? They never were trained for boarding actions nor had expertise on such matter, unless they spawn a order just for that out of their ass

[brittle slate]

Sob are the preeminent army in 40k now. They have numbers, faith magic bs and power armor.

[barren tapir]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Fuck them

[brittle slate]

Seems like a big response.

They’re everything new 40k is about, I thought you and eternal both loved that

[barren tapir]

No, i hated sob since the first time i read about them, which was back in dawn of war soulstorm

[brittle slate]

Oh. Why?

[barren tapir]

And where did i said i like new 40K?? I dislike SM, while not super opposed to primaris i still find them lame... I disagree with most people about cawl, but admit that the way he is portrayed and used is not optimal

[barren tapir]

I just despise very much religious fanatics

And religion in general honestly

[brittle slate]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-steve-carell-lip-bite-mistake-gif-13730776

Well- In this new 40k having good faith magic is the most potent weapon so… yeah I don’t like it either

Faith is 10x more powerful than warp stuff

And I can’t stand the mechanic.

Hence my whole “greater good goddess” is bullshit since it’s the same magic.

[barren tapir]

Now, i think i will say something that will shock you... But back in the day when i first met the setting, dawn of war soulstorm was it, i had to decide for a main civ... Originally i went with SM of the blood ravens, since i like red and they seemed quite chill guys, all about knowledge and stuff, but then i delved deep into the lore... And the choice was between SM (not very favourite anymore), IG (come on, normal humans kicking ass? hard to pass on) and tau (god like firepower, relatively rational and kinda futuristic)...

Yes, i nearly took tau as my main civ

[barren tapir]

I admit it is BS for the reasons you have expressed many times before, too few random people and too few time to make such goddess, especially since only humans were stated to kinda have some form of religion in tau empire, and even then it was stated to still be toward big E

Regarding it as mechanic it is the worst plot tool i ever seen, even bigger than plot armour... It go against everything else that is already established and it is even better, it work against everything and everywhere and has no rule for its function, it is just there to handwave crap decisions or outcomes

[brittle slate]

… well, yes, I’m speechless.

I’m in full agreement.

There’s a lot in that YouTube video I frankly don’t understand and think is very Ham fisted

The idea that there’s been a demigod of invention this whole time just appearing is dumb

That there’s yet another ultimate weapon hid behind lock and key and protected by key emblem space marines feels invented

Even the Lion killing everyone on a space hulk with Jawas feels like a space hulk isn’t that big

[barren tapir]

For me it is just another example of good concept, after all someone had to kinda rule the hell forges in the end, by the nature of the warp there must always be someone big in charge, but awful implementation

[brittle slate]

Yeah- like why not just make it an ambitious greater daemon?

There is precedence

And he basically fits in to tzeentch

[barren tapir]

I am bracing myself for the weave of retcon of stuff that before was just random to be the work of the new chaos entity

[dusk patrol]

Space hulks and these Arks don’t have a set size

[brittle slate]

Oh Jesus.

[dusk patrol]

And we don’t really know how big the crews are

[barren tapir]

This is just dumb, who made such weapon? Why it is locked up? Who locked it up? Lots of dumb stuff

[dusk patrol]

People wanted Dark Mech and this is the way they’re planning on doing it, it seems

[barren tapir]

Also, incredible weapon of utter power, no one minus a just appeared warp entity know anything about it... If vash still know anything about it really

[brittle slate]

Dark mech had enough lore to not need their own god

A space hulk is the term given by the Imperium of Man to the wreckage of a starship or a mangled twist of various starships and artificial debris found drifting through the vacuum of the Milky Way Galaxy without apparent direction. Many times they are so huge that they have their own atmosphere and gravity.

[dusk patrol]

Not really, it would be basically only Kelbor-Hal

[barren tapir]

Dark mech was stated to not care about warp entities either

[brittle slate]

If I say “giant” of course there could be dwarf giants. But that’s really not doing a good job of storytelling.

[dusk patrol]

And sometimes they’re not that big, it varies which is the point. They can be as big or small as the plot requires.

[brittle slate]

Which was the coolest thing about them.

[barren tapir]

The last part is laughable honestly when you have ark mechanicus and other big ships that are stated to be able to have their own gravity too

[brittle slate]

Maybe “natural” gravity

[dusk patrol]

And we’ve had space hulks cleared by small squads of marines in the past, it’s silly but like that’s 40k. Scale is often really off.

[barren tapir]

I still laugh when GW state the size of planet or ship, it is the size of a small moon... Ok, but that means nothing lol

[dusk patrol]

Having one be cleared by the Lion and the Watchers, who both have undefined power at this time, isn’t any weirder than they send a few squads of Terminators to clear one

[barren tapir]

Like, deimos is a full forge world... It is a big asteroid dammit!

[dusk patrol]

GW and numbers never make any sense

Or rarely do

Although they have gotten marginally better overtime

Or wisely just don’t give numbers

As for lacking stuff like Elysians currently being mentioned, they could easily mention them later which seems to be the point of this Ark Arc

They can be anywhere and fight anyone really

[barren tapir]

Ark arc cannot be seen

[dusk patrol]

And because they don’t need all the fragments to make the MacGuffin work, anything can happen really

[barren tapir]

I see that as a way to prevent cases when chaos get utterly demolished, but GW had them to win to push the plot forward, so they would say, even if they didn't managed to get many fragments they still could do their thing and be the biggest baddies still

[dusk patrol]

we already have an Ark being destroyed by the Word Bearers for being sacrilegious, which I assume is because it’s not dedicated to the Big Four, and one lost to the Red Corsairs because they’re the Red Corsairs

Idk I just don’t see what there isn’t to like about the current setup

[barren tapir]

Honestly that act by the word bearers is hilarious, wonder what abaddon would do, or what word bearers would do to abaddon since clearly there is a religious disagreement on the use of the arks...

[dusk patrol]

You can say they need to retcon Vashtorr into the setting but, who really cares? It’s a neat idea, and we’ve know of non-big four aligned entities in the warp before

[barren tapir]

The setting setup is quite ingenious i admit that... Giving a reason and a way to be everywhere and fight everyone

[dusk patrol]

We just haven’t seen them have a major role really outside of maybe like Drach’Nyen

Don’t get me wrong the story could still suck but the setup currently seems fine to me

And easily could expand to include lots of factions

Elysians being one example

[honest trellis]

TBH I like vashtorr

the big four is really boring

[barren tapir]

Fair points you bring... Still, to see sob being among the first leave a bad taste in my mouth

[dusk patrol]

It makes sense in setting, they’d be one of the most effective forces to clear them

[barren tapir]

I would have preferred something along the line "since those space hulks are now appearing everywhere even the sob, staunch defenders of sacred soils have started to board them to try to stop them"

[honest trellis]

The Arks to me are a long overdue case of Chaos actually being smart

and using its advantages

[barren tapir]

Space hulks have always been used by chaos and other bad stuff to travel

[honest trellis]

Very sick of "lol Chaos are penniless stupid hobos who don't have any technology"

[barren tapir]

Some CSM warbands had already their bases inside space hulks

[honest trellis]

Now give them some proper wargear so they're not just Worse Space Marines With Pet RoboDinos

Thematically Arks are great because they're a faction using its knowledge and options intelligently

[barren tapir]

Another thing that seems that GW has forgot is that space hulks are huge sources of lost tech... And we all know who appear the moment someone mention lost tech... And yet they are nowhere to be seen... But maybe it is just stygies doing stygies things

[honest trellis]

I mean

The AdMech is greedy not stupid

looting Chaos space hulks is closer to stupid

your faction is reliant on technology to the point of integrating it into yourselves

[dusk patrol]

Space Hulks often are priorities too

[honest trellis]

you know what we really need? expose all that to fleshmetal, technovirus and worse

[dusk patrol]

It’s just dangerous as fuck

Not easy to get on or off

[honest trellis]

Anyway using AL as "insurance" is either galaxy brain or very dumb

[dusk patrol]

Often infested with stuff which makes it really hard on top of that

[honest trellis]

with nothing in between

On the plus side, they're really good at infiltration.

On the downside, they're really good at infiltration

[barren tapir]

I want a way to prevent that honestly, kinda bored by the "and then chaos turned the tech against them" like they are some dumb technician that know jackshit about tech

[dusk patrol]

But generally that’s the reason we see Space Hulks boarded on top of just preventing Genestealers and Ork infestations

[honest trellis]

But they are

They're superstitious and fallen from the understanding they once had

and chaos literally doesn't care about how things are "supposed" to work

Like sticking your technology into something that's literally supernaturally corrupting seems like the sort of thing with predictable results

hell just look at what happened to Metallica

[barren tapir]

That is mostly a meme, and i think you would agree on this... Sure, there are a lot of techpriest that too much into the religious shiz, but not all... In fact i would like these fleshmetal thing to kinda shake the Ad. Mech. and return a bit more like the 30K version of them... Which is less religious

[honest trellis]

I mean the whole point of 40k is that the Imperium is a dying shell

that's a feature not a bug

[barren tapir]

Eh, i have some gripes with that too... But eh

[honest trellis]

I don't TBH

Long overdue for Chaos to actually, ya know, have objective advantages

[barren tapir]

Ok, but then make it end, you cannot have something that is dying and yet still endure everything and all it happen to it

[honest trellis]

selling your soul for power is a joke if the power doesn't actually...exist

That's why the timeline is usually frozen

[dusk patrol]

Ad Mech being vaguely competent is always nice when it’s show

[brittle slate]

Heresy

[dusk patrol]

It’s like the whole “Inquisitor is secretly evil” trope, it’s so overdone to just have Ad Mech bumble around and awaken some ancient evil or whatever

[brittle slate]

But also, for me the chaos gods should have stayed vague

[brittle slate]

I agree

[dusk patrol]

Which is why Forges of Mars is one of the best trilogies

One of many reasons

One of the few series where all factions get to be cool too

[barren tapir]

There are some little snippets of Ad. Mech. being competent, like when a forge world defeat a nid assault with nearly zero losses and then fill a report with such strategy... Too bad that such report then get put in a vault and forgotten

Or during the battle of calth iirc

[honest trellis]

Calth actually proves the point

chaos doesn't care about your competence

it is literally a corrupting supernatural force that trying to mess around with is inherently risky...and that makes admech a bad matchup for it

Written properly, Chaos is basically the setting's way of reminding the cast that it's a horror story

where the mortals and even the traitor marines are vectors for that contagion