40k-lore-chat

[raven stone]

Post Heresy you get individuals going Traitor and, for better or for worse, they folded under Red Corsairs

[arctic talon]

Bcs we know there’s traitor loyalists

During the heresy

We just have like 0 lore on em

Unless we count rules as lore

[raven stone]

Pretty much

Would be cool to write a complete flip fanfic set in HH

[arctic talon]

But imo there’s pretty much 0 chance the blood ravens aren’t from traitor gene stock

Considering they overwhelmingly don’t want to talk about it

And refuse to discuss it within the chapter itself

[raven stone]

Where a Loyalist splinter from Traitor Legion defends a world from a Traitor splinter of a Loyalist Legion.

[raven stone]

Yea, it’s all but said it’s Magnus lol

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Aside from that the Minotaurs(original founding) with the horrible color scheme were pretty much all but confirmed to beworld eaters

And the new bronze Minotaurs

[raven stone]

Huh, nice.

[lilac wave]

Could be mixed as well. I think there's a few(cursed) chapters with confirmed mixed heritage.

[arctic talon]

Are prolly iron warriors based on combat doctrine and culture

[arctic talon]

Yeah true

Also the Sons Of Antaeus who are from the cursed founding

Are prolly from deathguard genessed

Just because of how absurdly durable they are

[raven stone]

And I think there is that one Chapter using Fulgrim gene seed

Red Scorpions

[arctic talon]

They certinely act that way

With how much they value purity

[final solar]

More gaunt, no?

[raven prawn]

Sure

[dusk patrol]

He was skinny/gaunt for a primarch

He was also one of the strongest ones

I believe the Khan compared his blows to Ferrus’s, who was also pretty consistently considered one of the strongest in just raw strength

Vulkan was generally considered the single strongest

He made Jaghatai become exhausted for the first time in his life

This is some art of him on Barabus when he was younger

[arctic talon]

Ngl the wheat is sorta pretty

[raven prawn]

It's probably toxic so wouldn't recommend eating it

[arctic talon]

Oh for sure

[crisp heath]

Mortarion in general is a strangely pretty primarch for a Nurgle guy

[arctic talon]

Tbf he didn’t want to fall to nurgle in the first place

It’s bcs of typhus

[dusk patrol]

Tbh as it’s described Barabus was a pretty nice world

[arctic talon]

Now granted I don’t think any of the primarchs wanted to fall

But Mortarion hates himself a lot now

[dusk patrol]

But the evil tyrant Xenos sorcerers who sat on mountains of poisoned air are kinda a dealbreaker

Mortarion could have easily ended up being the primarch of farmers if the world didn’t have them

[celest dome]

Still would love for the Death Guard to break up and have DG SM who follow Isha instead `
With a Butterfly Mortarion

[barren tapir]

Now that is an amazing idea

[urban tusk]

Can I post a Christmas 40k video in here? Daemon santa

[barren tapir]

Maybe meme channel would be better, or maybe fan art

[urban tusk]

Fair

[raven prawn]

I remember hearing a theory that mortarion might redeem himself somehow but end up dying to typhus

[rich sail]

mortarion a massive bitch

[vital kernel]

that is correct, however

[rose thorn]

Memes aside, who do the ‘haha stealing’ chapter

[celest dome]

Blood Raven

[north lotus]

Blood ravens

The THQ original chapter

[rose thorn]

Wait really? I thought it was just a shitpost

[north lotus]

The origin of the joke is the extensive war gear reliquary of the chapter in the game dawn of war 2

From places not too inclined for sharing

[celest dome]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Ravens_Armoury

[north lotus]

Basically they’re the e4 mafia

[north lotus]

https://youtu.be/SEgh-w4FIFc

[rose thorn]

Hero hammer my beloved

[arctic talon]

They do have a reputation for having things they shouldn’t

But they don’t have as much stuff as they do in the games

Bcs we know where they are in lore

[rose thorn]

I looked through the wiki and never realized how much shit they have from other chapter s

[arctic talon]

Yeah lmao

It’s due to their own constant quest for knowledge

[rose thorn]

Honesty I paid zero attention to the lore in DoW

[arctic talon]

Actually they figured out who dad is

So maybe not anymore lol

[errant yacht]

Has there been any cases where a Paradise World gets overrun by a Slaanesh Cult?

[rose thorn]

I just laugh he’s at metal boxes and sucked at the game

[rose thorn]

Literally constantly

Fulgrim’s world was a pleasure planet

Hsi demon world

Not his home word

[errant yacht]

I imagine those would be the easiest pickings tbh. A Cult makes its way into such a civilization and due to the noncombative nature of Paradise World citizens, the PDF will be woefully outnumbered and outgunned when they see the Mark of Slaanesh

It'll be a goddamn massacre

[rose thorn]

There are cults literally everywhere

It’s hilarious

How many chaos cults there are

Terra is literally the cult hot spot

[errant yacht]

But in a regular hive or civilized world, conflict is the natural state of things, so the Arbites and PDF would have enough guns... Usually

[rose thorn]

Yeah the cults would usually nto uprise. Unless they get a lil help or plan for literal generations

[errant yacht]

Yepyep. Was mainly operating under the assumption that Paradise worlds have a disproportionate number of noncombatants that they seem like easy pickings for daemonic infiltration

[barren tapir]

They did?

[rose thorn]

Nothing in the imperium can be trusted to not completely fucking fall apart

[arctic talon]

They found overwhelming evidence for their gene father according to the 8e forgeworld supplement

[barren tapir]

Nice, but i guess it was left vague by forgeworld anyway

[arctic talon]

All we know is they don’t want to tell anyone

Or talk about it

[barren tapir]

Lel

[arctic talon]

Which is vague as hell but indicates traitor or chimeric

Bcs I highly doubt they’d be upset if their gene father is like Ferrus manus

Or smthin lol

[barren tapir]

Then next time magnus decide to visit it will be faced with them and he will go... Wait, you remind me of something and someone...

[arctic talon]

Lol

[celest dome]

Could even be one of the 2 lost primarch

[arctic talon]

Point being it’s something either A. Shameful or B. Would be a really bad mark on their record

[barren tapir]

Worse than their chapter master going rogue with half of the chapter if not more?

[arctic talon]

Honestly prolly not

But still I don’t think they need more reasons to be on a shit list lol

[barren tapir]

They are already having a shit time though, and it seems that angelos wasn't informed of primaris, nor the tech to make them has been spread to all the chapter

[arctic talon]

Honestly they have such terrible luck

Its pretty incredible

[crimson kayak]

did we get any blood raven lore since primaris got introduced?

[arctic talon]

We got some with their little supliment from forgeworld

[crimson kayak]

Uh, didn't know about it

[crisp heath]

I just realized, what would happen if Lucius the eternal were to be killed by someone who has butcher's nails implant

Considering lucius can only take over someone who takes pride in the victory, yet butcher's nails get rid of all emotions except rage, including pride

[signal bramble]

Not really. They'd still feel pride at defeating such a famous and skilled foe.

Lucius once died to a landmine and was reborn in the body of the old man that made the mine because he took a small amount of pride in his good service.

In other words, Lucius would always find a way.

[crisp heath]

Oh damn

[celest dome]

As if Slaanesh would play fair like that

[arctic talon]

Slaanesh doesn’t really give a shit overall

If they don’t feel pride they’ll revive him anyways

Bcs Lucius’s suffering brings slaanesh joy

And is entertaining to them

[brittle slate]

Aw. There’s a lot of great stuff in there.

[rose thorn]

to be fair i dont expect alot from a tabletop game to videogame

im also terrible at dawn of war

[earnest snow]

DoW do be hitting different as a RTS

Can get challenging especially when you meet a necron tide

x.x

[vocal drum]

can the god emperor be some kind of chaos god

like hes absored so much power that now hes some kind of god?

[signal bramble]

Chaos god is the wrong phrase to use.

"Warp Entity" is a better term.

[vocal drum]

or that

[signal bramble]

I think, yes. He is a powerful warp entity that is mostly restrained by his physical body being kept alive.

[vocal drum]

so maybe he wants to acent into god hood?

[signal bramble]

He never wanted that. But the power of the humans believing it for so long may force it to happen.

[echo vault]

Lucius is living in the 40k equivalent of live die repeat/edge of tomorrow

[vocal drum]

my friend asked this

what do i say to him

?

[signal bramble]

He was being kept alive well before the humans started believing in him as a deity.

[echo vault]

It's a cool theory and fits with the orks character

[brittle slate]

It’s a meme… it’s a meme… for the love of god stop listening to the endless memes

The orks wouldn’t know who the emperor is at this point

Their nascent psychic power doesn’t work like that

The 40k universe in general just treats faith as “real” but it’s like the force unless you’re a fairly powerful psyker

The only ork powers described are things like red things go faster (and by a literal inch on tabletop) and their gestalt consciousness helps them navigate the warp to go where there are warzones

[signal bramble]

Among other colors like blue is protection and purple is the sneakiest color.

[echo vault]

During the great crusade the orks had a tough time dealing with the emperor's children due to their purple armor

[dusk patrol]

It doesn’t

It’s a really lame meme which keeps getting spread and it’d be nice if it would die

The purple Ork thing has always just been a joke

[echo vault]

I mean it depends how you characterize orks they can be as goofy or serious as you want

[dusk patrol]

They’re pretty consistently characterized in lore

From their perspective it can be goofy

From anyone fighting them, they’re terrifying and sadistic

There’s some levels of variance but they’re not really inconsistent

And all that aside, it’s not how the gestalt field works anyways

[subtle ledge]

Was Horus empowered by chaos when he killed Sanguinius and pretty much the Emperor? 2v1ing

[hushed kayak]

yeah, seeing how the 4 gave them their blessing. He was pretty much insanely powerful.

[signal bramble]

Yes.

[dusk patrol]

They were basically wearing him as a suit by that point

[signal bramble]

At that moment he was their chosen human representative in crushing big E.

[dusk patrol]

His body was deteriorating from having to be a vessel for them

[hushed kayak]

still hate how Fulgrim turned out to be

[signal bramble]

Same.

The EC pre-heresy corruption were my favorite.

[dusk patrol]

Some fanart of him with a helmet

[vital kernel]

that almost looks like he is mid-punch with the lad behind him

[earnest snow]

Emperor's Children were pog pre heresy. Even their descent into Chaos I really enjoyed for whatever reason. Maybe its the fact it was looped in with art, music, and what not.

Maraviglia was a nice read when I was first starting out in the HH series

[signal bramble]

I’ve just always had a thing for noble/aristocratic types.

[earnest snow]

I don't have a particular favorite in lore other than the funny clown elves. I just enjoy it all overall, so I don't end up "hating" or whatever people do on certain lore pieces.

[north lotus]

it's the degeneration of artisans into hedonists

[crisp heath]

I hate all Eldar that aren't craftworlders or exodites tbh but other than that I don't dislike any faction

Harlequins are OK, I just think they're ugly

I definitely hate specific units and sub-factions but not whole armies

[arctic talon]

So you hate the BDSM elves and Pirates

[storm jungle]

Corsairs are based

but then again any sort of pirate is cool to me regardless of faction so 😔

https://tenor.com/view/disney-movies-quotes-potc-pirates-of-the-caribbean-gif-14851127

[earnest snow]

They're beautifully comedic

[earnest snow]

Yaas

[crisp heath]

I hate BDSM elves and ressurrected elves, Corsairs are a little bit better than Harlequins

I would hate Slaanesh for similar reasons but Slaanesh also has noise marines which are the best chaos marines

[north lotus]

I prefer Khorne, more so over how you have a dichotomy and variety of end points

[wraith gale]

5 chapters in on traitors rock and damn

[north lotus]

On the one hand, you can have a extremely disciplined and violent group like the blood pact, while also having things like insane axe murderers

[wraith gale]

Wonder how the bullet sponges that live in the militarum deal with ptsd

[north lotus]

Commisariat

[wraith gale]

Ahh so the "fun boss" or the "motivator"

Had to Google that lol

[signal bramble]

According to ciaphas cain there are some mental health care facilities for guardsmen that are traumatized.

One in particular coincidentally produces a large amount of servitors.

Funny that.

[wraith gale]

Sure hope so, even just encountering the waaay lower end of chaos beings would be Traumatic

[north lotus]

I’m thinking straight Canadian healthcare there

[raven prawn]

Knew it

[north lotus]

“YOU SHOULD SERVITORIZE YOURSELF…NOW”

[wraith gale]

Lol

Get in the box now cadian

[wraith gale]

Oh... OH

Jfc lmao

[north lotus]

I was making a Canadian MAID joke

[signal bramble]

Yeah... yeah the implications are pretty clear.

[north lotus]

Related, I think the mental health institution’s lead director became a latent psyker

[wraith gale]

You know ... after learning all this that picture fits

If the commisarit can't make them motivated or happy in the box you go

[signal bramble]

In the priests of mars series there's also a magos that had her entire brain rewired so she didn't feel any physical desire or similar emotions. Judging by that logic, some of these facilities for dealing with trauma may just do highly invasive brain surgery.

"That part of your brain causing you to be afraid in battle? Let's just cut that part out."

"Feeling depressed at all your friends from world being killed? Let's just modify that dose of serotonin."

[wraith gale]

Ohhh like me playing rimworld gotcha

[unborn gust]

Which primarch was called the emperors sharpest blunt object as a joke

[lilac wave]

Is this Trivia or something? Sounds like Perty.

[north lotus]

I want to say either perterabo or dorn

[dusk patrol]

Might have been Ferrus too

[vital kernel]

Which Chapter Master would get in?

[celest dome]

Not a CM but a Primarch Jagatai Khan
So Prob also any WS Chapter Master

[vital kernel]

Assuming Jagatai doesn't run that joint

[celest dome]

Nah, Jagatai doesn't have the time or need to run that

Jagatai run the most successful Gorkamorka race championship

[echo vault]

tu'shan

[unique berry]

Dante 🫡

[raven prawn]

Me

[echo vault]

Honest question, what's the different effects/impacts of being shot with specific specialist weapons? Just because I'm trying to visualize how that could work for every type of directed energy, especially since stuff like melta has different interpretations

Is plasma like a lasgun? Would it shoot through you? How does a volkite gun look when it shoots out of the gun, and what does a neutron laser beam look like because there's also conversion beamers and torsion cannons and irrad cleansers, photon thrusters and grav guns you see what I mean

There's lots of similar stuff

[mystic geyser]

Lasgun= high power laser, instantaneous
Plasmagun= bolt of high power plasma, burns through most armour.
Meltagun= directed microwaves. Probably ignites the air between gun and target.
Volkite= "Ray gun" energy beam, makes choom sound. Explodes flesh on impact
Neutron beam. Would probably be invisible? Harder to imagine what it would be like, other than the thing shot at dissolving apart.

[celest dome]

Irrad Cleanser are directed radioactive waves

[mystic geyser]

Artists interpretation of a heavy volkite

[celest dome]

Volkite Weapons produced a deflagrating attack, in which subsonic combustion caused by a beam of thermal energy propagated through a target material by thermodynamic heat transfer so that hot burning material heated the next layer of cold material and ignited it.

[storm jungle]

aka

Its the Martian gun from Mars Attacks

https://res.cloudinary.com/wnotw/image/upload/c_limit,w_1536,q_auto:good,f_auto/v1669784656/rw3qpevonqco2ws4pwau

[vital kernel]

Volkites are a twist on Martian Death Rays to be sure

version on the tallarn cover

[vital kernel]

Cherenkov radiation glows blue.
So that may be a visible effect.

[graceful haven]

https://youtu.be/qswUJHrxdB8

[north lotus]

I’d just steal from battletech and use the effects from PPC’s.

Or at least for plasma

[earnest snow]

That Salamander really is just mentally deconstructing that volkite weapon from the side line. What a chad.

[full bane]

Plasma is generally described as being more of a fast projectile of very bright light/plasma while PPCs get described as being like a focused lightning bolt.

But if it's the video game depictions then yeah, the PPC effects would look great on plasma.

[north lotus]

And here’s a thing, both look badass as shit

[full bane]

No doubt, just saying that if we're going off how they're commonly described they shouldn't quite look the same.

[dusk patrol]

Also they canonically make a CHOOM sound

[tulip sand]

Is there any details on waagh and peace

Other than that it exists

[errant yacht]

Does this Darktide quote imply that Felinids are Imperial kemonomimi? Nekomusume, specifically?

[zealous zealot]

Long shot maybe but does anyone remember the name of the story where the characters is bullied restlessly by his unit and in the end has a real sad suicide mission that he was sent unbeknownst to him

[echo vault]

Thank you

[celest dome]

The Ogryn short story ?

I just remember the Ogryn is called Tig or something

[echo vault]

Also I woke up from a dream where at the end for some reason I was helping night lords looking marines move a completely normal couch and bed, and hearing laughing at how normal they were compared to everything else

Idk how my mind came up with it

[north lotus]

God pls, I want the anthropomorphic crowd to seethe

[errant yacht]

I feel like they'd have to be quite ugly and unattractive to look at, since their feline physiology would most likely evolve to be more optimized for combat (i.e: longer arms, larger uper boddy)

[north lotus]

I post the alfabusa video yet?

[errant yacht]

Dunno if you did, but I know what you're referring to

[crisp heath]

Every day we stray farther from God, but closer to grimdark catgirls

[errant yacht]

The mental image i had for felinids would be that they'd still be bipedal, but with with more upper body musclemass and longer arms for clawing at enemies. Musclemass mainly to give more impact to their clawing

But Darktide seems to imply "anime catgirls in 40K" via dialogue

[north lotus]

Again, GW pls

[crisp heath]

I always say them as Thundercats, but someone mentioned "feral 80s catgirls" the other day and that could be fun

[arctic talon]

Tbh considering other abhumans felenids prolly look a bit messed up

[crisp heath]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/78010a30010de25d513e60ea6ea3abc3/23fda51c075135ba-b9/s500x750/15f4b3eb6a7f8ac5599d93ffdedc363d0285a881.jpg

Honestly those are from Dominion which could easily be a 40k world lmao

Set in the fictional city of Newport, Japan, in a future in which bacteria as well as air pollution have become so severe that people must wear gas masks when outdoors, the series follows a police squadron that uses military-style tanks.

[rose thorn]

W- what

[signal bramble]

Felinids been canon for a while.

[crisp heath]

Yeah but the question is more that the game seems to lean more on the "catgirl" interpretation

[celest dome]

I think it was mostly about their appearance and not their existence

[crisp heath]

Also jesus I haven't seen anyone say kemonomimi in years wtf

[celest dome]

What does it mean ?

[crisp heath]

kemonomimi are the girls with animal ears and tails, literally just means "animal ear"

[arctic talon]

honestly if Felenids are anything like Pelegars or Nightsiders

they prolly look creepy to humans

[north lotus]

aka "monster girls"

[crisp heath]

Monster girls are a completely different thing, I can find tons of catgirls but nothing that caters to my exquisite taste in monstergirl soccermoms

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/woman-of-culture-gif-20099443

[north lotus]

do you know of the monstergirl encyclopedia, in which case, I recommend the lizardgirl option

[crisp heath]

I know of it but I didn't buy it because I don't like sexual content for the most part, and uh, some of the characters I've seen from it are sus ngl

[north lotus]

Related https://preview.redd.it/cntcx1svgwd91.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=279fc98f7846c8315c069532684fbfa780f62fec

[arctic talon]

[north lotus]

It’s a shit joke

I’ll go and redirect to somewhere worse

Like what is the state of tertium’s plumbing

Anyone?

[arctic talon]

[north lotus]

It chamberpots and outhouses or actual porcelain and pipes?

Cause if the former I can see how nurgle got so bad

[crisp heath]

I'd imagine it's the same as any hive city, I think in one mission you actually go through sewage

[signal bramble]

The human waste is collected and recycled.

[north lotus]

Oh, so New York on a good day and china on a bad day

[signal bramble]

However, for the homeless unwashed masses? They probably don't have the same option.

[crisp heath]

Doesn't all the raw sewage just kind of sit in the hive sump?

[signal bramble]

It could. But we also know that some hives recycle human waste in to food.

Hell we do that now in our modern day.

[crisp heath]

Do we? I thought humanure was generally not used because it can transfer toxins into plants

[north lotus]

chinese sewer oil comes to mind

[arctic talon]

Sewer oil is pretty common in Asia in general

Tbh

[north lotus]

generally not in western countries but occasionally in nonwestern ones

I'm not mentioning india because that's a separate subject

floorsteaks anyone?

[arctic talon]

India super power by 2020 💀

[crisp heath]

Oh blech I used to clean the grease traps of restuarants and so many of those tie into the sewer and all the food stuff and the human stuff mixed together and now I think I'm going to puke because of this convo lol

[arctic talon]

As delusional as saying the imperium is a stable empire

[north lotus]

hey, it's got institutional momentum going for it

[crisp heath]

But yeah basically those disgusting grease traps are what I always imagined the underhive smelled like, just rancid oil and shit

Hell, that's what I imagined it looked like lmao

[north lotus]

I've went with the standard new york scent

[crisp heath]

I was unaware New York had a distinct aroma

[north lotus]

sour milk and gas fumes.

plus BO

the same could be said of portland, but add also the smell of weed

there's a reason why people hate cities

though in the case of portland you also have the wonderful soundscape of homeless people loosing their shit

https://youtu.be/f_N2BWhOHlk

[crisp heath]

One of my best friends is a homeless schizo in portland 😦

[north lotus]

I respect the schizo grind. I just don't like american costal cities, especially ones like portland

[crisp heath]

yeah cities are hellscapes

[north lotus]

the further you get from the coastline the more people appear to be sane.

[north lotus]

granted their vices tend to be less cringe and more freedom loving

[crisp heath]

I can only see cities as whalefalls, monuments of shredded flesh and broken bone being consumed by chaotic masses. They're effigies of death.

[north lotus]

ironic considering for a time they literally were spots where whales would die.

but that's enough about real life hives of scum and villainy, let's move on to fictional ones

[serene mist]

Imma point out that Portland's not on the coast, man

As someone who lived on the coast, I can definitively say "F*** Portland"

[north lotus]

I get that, I’m more referring to scents.

[serene mist]

Ah

Honestly the few times I've gone there, wasn't all that bad as far as smell

That was pre COVID though

I'm more concerned, with the Hive Cities, about the ambient heat and air flow
We see fans and the like but those fans just lead to areas with other fans and I can't believe that there's a great airflow through the place

Especially when locations are probably no longer working and/or gunked up with growths

[storm jungle]

Guy's, lore chat.

Please add some latin words to IRL locations as to keep it lore accurate.

[serene mist]

Fair enough

[storm jungle]

Im joking mostly its fine

[serene mist]

Here's a question
Why does everyone badmouth Cadia in front of Cadians

I mean jesus let them martyr/redeem themselves in peace for all sakes

They lost their planet do you really need to rub it in

[storm jungle]

Basically its a case of that one kid in class who doesn't shut the fuck up about how he went to Harvard or Oxford

they wouldn't rub it in if the veteran in the game wasn't an asshole

[arctic talon]

^

[storm jungle]

He is usually always the instigator

the other characters respond in kind

[serene mist]

Yeah but if Harvard or Oxford was deleted in a cataclysmic fire I don't think people would be going "Yeah how's Oxford NOW bro?"

[west aspen]

Plus like in this universe one planet seems pretty trivial

[serene mist]

I'm also talking about in the books

[west aspen]

Like yeah bro we all got shit going on

[storm jungle]

oh

that i dont know

the game one deserves it but books are here and there

[serene mist]

Like, in the books people just talk left and right about Cadia's FAILURE and how Cadians aren't worth anything now

How Cadians are a dying breed and all that and how the galaxy is better off from it

It's really messed up not gonna lie

[storm jungle]

In that case its a big matter of showboasting

its sad but pretty realistic

[serene mist]

I just don't really get it

Showboasting is for people who matter though
IG are sort of disposable let's be honest
Heck they should be taking pride in that, like the good, honest Kriegers

[storm jungle]

It entirely depends, most see Guardsman as disposable but their military leaders (good ones like Creed) dont

Regiments got a lot of shit to wave around about their reputation to boot

[arctic talon]

^

[serene mist]

Oh no I'm not talking about seeing Guardsmen as disposable

[arctic talon]

Guardsmeh usually have huge egos

[storm jungle]

oh yeah

[arctic talon]

about their regiment lol

[serene mist]

I'm talking about the IG in general as being disposable, generally speaking

[storm jungle]

Yeee true

[serene mist]

To include the leaders

etc

[arctic talon]

like

[storm jungle]

pretty much same as IRL

[arctic talon]

your place of birth + regiment

is a huge source of pride

in the imperium

[storm jungle]

Also yeah this

like

Regiments are literally sports-team tiers of competitive

sometimes to their detriment when working with other regiments

[arctic talon]

more violent

sometimes

[storm jungle]

Canadian Hockey tier violent 💀

[serene mist]

Yeah but if we extend that metaphor
One sports team doesn't laugh at the surviving 3 members of another when their plane crashes in the Alps and they all die

[arctic talon]

I don't think sports fans start firing artillery at each other

[storm jungle]

Lmao

[arctic talon]

I mean

[storm jungle]

you say this but

[arctic talon]

there was a guardsmen regiment

that fired on another reigment

while they were retreating

[storm jungle]

And this

[dusk patrol]

Dude sports fans do some wild shit

[storm jungle]

Yeah even humans in general

[serene mist]

God I'm glad I don't follow sports then

[dusk patrol]

And there’s no lives on the line with that

[arctic talon]

like it wasn't even an accident

[dusk patrol]

Also tbh

[arctic talon]

they were like "no one will miss them lmao, and we'll get some of the people chasing them"

[dusk patrol]

The Author just focuses on that shit in the books because Drama™️

[serene mist]

Fair

[dusk patrol]

We see plenty of people and factions with respect for Cadians

For every Metallica there’s other Forge worlds or chapters or regiments with respect

[arctic talon]

yeah Aggripina loves Cadians

Especially the refugees

[dusk patrol]

Also Metallica hates everyone whose not them

[arctic talon]

[storm jungle]

LMAO

god thats fucked up

[serene mist]

Wasn't Agripinaa also deleted

[arctic talon]

Free workers/Cannon fodder

No

Agripinna is fine

they're just getting invaded 24/7 lol

[serene mist]

Ah

[storm jungle]

I think the only fucked major forgeworld is Metallica atm

[dusk patrol]

Metallica is the one whose almost gone

[arctic talon]

Metallica is screwed yeah

for the forseeable future

[serene mist]

Big oof

[arctic talon]

that ego really helped em

didn't it

[storm jungle]

KEK

[serene mist]

I must be thinking of that forgeworld that got thwacked by the Tyranids then

One of many

[arctic talon]

Gryphon IV

[serene mist]

Yes

That

[dusk patrol]

Yeah Metallica never had any friends, and it definitely came to bite them in the ass when they got cut off

Ain’t nobody coming to help

And even if they did they’re fucked

[arctic talon]

They can't pay back their debt to anyone either lol

to anyone who came to help them

[round cedar]

is there lore for an unchained like class for psyker?
unstable psykers usually get possessed, executed, or fed to the throne
idk if there is a type that is known for going crazy with their powers that is tolerated by the imperium

[celest dome]

Mechanically or thematically

[signal bramble]

One of the psyker voice packs specifically mentions being trained and conditioned before being sent in to tertium by the inquisitor.

So the player character wasn't just let loose, they underwent some training and prep beforehand.

[round cedar]

i know, butim wondering if there is a justification for a psycher class that gameplay wise wants to be at crazy high peril, like VT2 unchained

which is sanctioned as a discipline by the imperium

probably not, but Wyrdvane psykers may fit the bill?

[signal bramble]

Probably because the power is addictive.

[thick cedar]

How the fuck do they find 1k psykers a day to sacrifice

[round cedar]

there are a million human worlds containing in total quadrillions of humans

iven if 0.0001% of people are psykers, thats alotta psykers

especially with the opening of the great rift, more and more are being born each day for the black ships to pick up

and i think the Emperor consumes the souls of a lot more nowadays

[signal bramble]

The great rift opening has also drastically increased the number of psykers being born, people without the powers are suddenly manifesting them, and the psykers are all growing more powerful by the day.

So there's plenty of psykers around.

[barren ether]

I can agree with that. The GOD emperor is literally becoming a god.

[round cedar]

wrong, he always was one

now its just more obvious

[barren ether]

After 10k years of huffing gas fumes and taking steroids, he’s a legit god in my opinion

In 30k he was the definition of a Demi god

Now he’s just “imma take your souls and maybe make you into a saint if you’re cool”

My hot take is that if g dubs were to ever have the dude taken off the throne, he’d probably turn into the 5th chaos god. And he’d be the god of Order

Terra would be blown to smithereens and the Terminus protocol that the Grey knights carry, and the Talisman of Seven hammers that Vulkan carries would be activated

Then we’d get Age of Sigmar 2.0 (Space Edition Tm)

[round cedar]

the question aint if he's a god, but this: knowing what he really is and all the wrongs he has done, would you still worship him?

nvm retarded question

answer is yes cuz his quotes are too good

[north lotus]

Compare him to the alternatives and he is a ray of fucking sunshine

[round cedar]

agreed lol

"One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, One last blade forged in defiance of fate, Let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered, And my final gift to the species I failed." - Emperor when creating the Grey Knights

yea i'd worship the hell outta that

[north lotus]

I mean he had a legitimate excuse for most of his behavior

The psyker policy is entirely understandable

[round cedar]

i get that but so much genocide, xenocide, hypocricy, and the downfall of man are entirely his fault, although the alternative aint pretty either

if he didnt have to speedrun the great crusade before chaos retaliated or the orks became too op or necrons/tyranids arrived then i imagine he'd make a lot more compromise

but holy hell the odds werent with him

[celest dome]

Not really, they are weaker and need each other

[storm jungle]

Yeah he more or less just speedrun'd humanity to its doom

he pretty much admits it himself

[barren tapir]

NGL, the more i read about big E choices and decisions and the other civs that got destroyed during the great crusade the more i find him the worst path mankind could take

[round cedar]

if he did nothing humanity woulda just rotted away faster with nothing to unite it

[barren tapir]

Oh, didn't saw Dilara message until after i sent my message

[round cedar]

which may have been better than dooming quadrillions of humans under the most hellish imperium imaginable

[barren tapir]

Not exactly true, mars had its own empire growing

And there were lots of other human civs that were developing

[twin seal]

Either all of humanity would've been used to feed Chaos or the Necrons would've enslaved them by now

[barren tapir]

There were human civs more advanced than the imperium, just less focused on war and extermination

[twin seal]

Which civilizations are you referring to?

[barren tapir]

In this specific case? Interex, but there were others too

But there is also the aurentian technocracy

[round cedar]

they would have fallen

[barren tapir]

Debatable

[round cedar]

if not for the emperor sending orks to the stone age at ullanor, or stopping the rangdan, those would have messed up the galaxy big time

[barren tapir]

If forge worlds created by mars fleet managed to survive then such civilizations could clearly show they could do so too

Another example? Ultramar

[crisp heath]

Interex probably could've taken on Great Crusade Era orks

They knew a lot about chaos and had a warrior class of cybernetic xenos

[barren tapir]

TBF most of the problems during the great crusade were solved by simply throwing enough SM at it to drown them, not because of technological superiority

[round cedar]

all i gotta say is i understand why the emperor did everything, what was at stake, and why he failed, but...
he is cool as fuck and still "all in" on keeping humanity going by still enduring torment on the throne

so id still worship

[twin seal]

The biggest two threats would've been Necrons and Tyranids. I doubt Interex knew anything about them.

[crisp heath]

Like it's a whole thing that Horus really wanted peaceful negotiations with the Interex because they were powerful enough to be a threat and they successfully put down at least one xenos invasion that space marines struggled with

[barren tapir]

Sure, not saying that people shouldn't, just stating that for me it is the worst option for mankind

[round cedar]

naw, there are many worse

the imperium as it is is still marginally better than old night

[barren tapir]

Ah, yes, the megaspiders... A foe that was bested by the interex, but the SM named murder because they got, well, murdered...

[crisp heath]

Yeah planet sucked so bad that they called it Murder lmao

[barren tapir]

And one among the worst is all the fault of the imperium and big E... Namely CSM and nids

[barren tapir]

It was the spider, claws that could cut SM power armour like butter, but the interex managed to fight the spider and even confine them to one world... They also put signals to not land and leave the planet alone... Did the SM listened? Of course not, they landed, got slapped hard, brought in more numbers to drown the enemy and even then they did so with huge losses and then got scolded by interex for not listening to the signals

[crisp heath]

They didn't even take the planet, they just destroyed one breeding ground and then the Interex showed up like "hey we're cool with the spiders now, please stop killing them"

But tyranids would've found the galaxy eventually, there were scout fleets in the galaxy during the Horus Heresy

Iirc Tiamat was actually in the galaxy before Behemoth setting things up for invasion?

[barren tapir]

That is also why i don't like SM, they are just tools and they don't even realize this, they think to be something special, but they are not... They used number strategy during the great crusade exactly because they were crude and barbaric... HELL, even their main weapon is just a brutal and barbaric weapon in its design, made not to be the best of best, but to be used as hammer to bash enemies skulls with

[barren tapir]

It is canon that it was the explosion of the pharos during the heresy that alerted them, and then they followed the astronomican, so yeah, maybe they would still stumble upon the galaxy, but it would take them way more time than what we have now

They took nearly 11K years to reach the galaxy with a super flare and a super light to follow, imagine how much time we would have if they were to stumble randomly upon the galaxy

[dusk patrol]

Mars didn’t have the ability to connect with any of the forges

[barren tapir]

Another civ that i really like, and i think that didn't got really destroyed was Adrantis FIve

[dusk patrol]

It’s why they allied with the Imperium

[barren tapir]

They would in due time

[crisp heath]

Tyranids weren't stumbling blindly into the galaxy

[barren tapir]

Imperium was just having someone else doing their work for them

[crisp heath]

They were already on Catachan at least since the Age of Strife

Pharos just alerted them that the galaxy was worth sending whole hive fleets after

[dusk patrol]

They wouldn’t

[barren tapir]

They were gone feral, and yes, it is hinted they already visited the galaxy before, but not as vanguard like the hive fleets we know

[dusk patrol]

They didn’t have the manpower

[brittle slate]

you could just not worship weird warp intelligences

[barren tapir]

They were sending fleets around well before terra could be united, they had all the manpower they would need

[dusk patrol]

Saturn provided the expertise and intelligence, Mars made the ships, Terra had the manpower

They didn’t, that’s why they allied

[barren tapir]

From the excerpt i remember the pharos actually woke them up

[dusk patrol]

It would have been incalculable years

And they might have never been able to reach some

[barren tapir]

They allied for lots of reasons, but not that they couldn't do the same with time, it was just faster to have others do the work for you

[dusk patrol]

A few explorator fleets maybe teaching some worlds is a far cry from hundreds of thousands of ships

[brittle slate]

what about the interex?

[north lotus]

You could, but
1: atheism is cringe
2: chaos is as SCP calls it, a cognito hazard.

[dusk patrol]

With time, maybe, and probably not. The galaxy was a dangerous place and they lacked people to actually crew the ships.

[barren tapir]

1. You are cringe

[north lotus]

Warp intelligences find a way

[dusk patrol]

Atheism in 40k is unironically just stupid

[barren tapir]

It isn't

[brittle slate]

1. "atheism is cringe" lol, wtf? That's the best hot take of 2023 for sure
2. there are entire species not worried about chaos

[dusk patrol]

Not believing in supernatural entities is just wrong

[barren tapir]

That is wrong

[dusk patrol]

In the context of 40k

[north lotus]

1 is a joke

[dusk patrol]

Bile is not smart, the point of the books is he thinks he is

But he becomes something of a warp diety himself

It’s all copium

[celest dome]

Atheism is not worshipping them, not denying them

[brittle slate]

1. it's hilarious, i'm applauding and if i'd been drinking my coffee just now i'd have had to go to the hospital with burns

[dusk patrol]

And that his denial of their existence still feeds them

[dusk patrol]

Bile tries that

He becomes a minor warp diety to some people

It doesn’t work

[celest dome]

Atheism =/= Agnostism

[dusk patrol]

Atheism is denial of a gods existence

[north lotus]

The problem I see is humanity is not a rational creature

[barren tapir]

There are no gods, only entities that like to portray themself as gods... But that also depend on the definition of god... Which can be seen as subjective

[dusk patrol]

By 40k standards they are gods

[barren tapir]

No they aren't

[north lotus]

And no matter what Star Trek tells you, humanity can’t get that future

[dusk patrol]

What makes something a god is subjective as you say, but by what most people in 40k consider to be a god, they are gods

You don’t have to worship them, but denying their existence doesn’t work

Which is what atheism is

The Imperial Truth was an attempt at that

[barren tapir]

That still doesn't make them gods... Only a illusion of gods

[dusk patrol]

They aren’t illusions if they have a massive impact on the galaxy

[barren tapir]

Denying the existence of gods isn't the same as denying the existence of entities that like to call themself gods though

[dusk patrol]

They don’t even require you to believe in them for them to function

[barren tapir]

And the imperiual truth was all about saying there are no gods, not there aren't entities

[dusk patrol]

Like, people really run with Bile’s lines

And don’t get that the point is he’s an idiot

And he’s feeding Slaneesh the whole time

[barren tapir]

Fuck Bile, i don't care about him

[north lotus]

Same

[dusk patrol]

He literally says what you say though

He’s the example of what you’re saying

[north lotus]

Me?

[dusk patrol]

No

Idk

[barren tapir]

Me

[dusk patrol]

I’m not sure what you’ve said

[barren tapir]

He had the right ideas, but the bad implementation

[dusk patrol]

I also don’t think it’s feasible for a large civilization

The Interex is an example of how easily it fails

It took one dude to collapse that entire civilization

[barren tapir]

It took lots of SM to crush

The one guy, fuck erebus is obligatory, was just what started the shit

[dusk patrol]

They were also idiots too tbh, the issue with Chaos is you can’t fight it by denying it

[barren tapir]

Interex didn't denied it

It knew about it and fought against it

[dusk patrol]

Worse, they thought they beat it

[barren tapir]

In fact, the relations went sour because they started to think that the SM were chaos corrupted iirc

[dusk patrol]

And put out dangerous artifacts on display and all it took was one dude breaking in to corrupt their leader

And this was when Chaos was laying low

[brittle slate]

i.. don't think it was easy

[dusk patrol]

It was pretty damn easy

Took one person

[brittle slate]

with that logic it took one person to undo all of the emperor's work

[dusk patrol]

Yeah

[brittle slate]

or, heck, it took one person to build the imperium (the emperor)

[dusk patrol]

More proof space atheism is a bad idea

[brittle slate]

one persons do big things all the time

[dusk patrol]

The only people it works for are those with no warp signature or barley any

So it’s hard for them to be corrupted

[brittle slate]

and the tau are doing great with atheism.

[dusk patrol]

Yeah, because they get their immunity field

[brittle slate]

the LoV are seemingly in the same boat

[dusk patrol]

See above

[celest dome]

I mean, you can realise that they are forces of nature and all that and still deny their godhood

[barren tapir]

Pretty sure that humans too could do well with atheism, not blind one though, enlighted one though

[dusk patrol]

I mean that’s not atheism for one

[brittle slate]

as are the Nicassar, the Greet, I'm not even sure I would call the Kroot all worshippers of their god since they're rooted in lineage

[brittle slate]

agreed

[dusk patrol]

None of these solutions work for humanity

[barren tapir]

That is atheism, atheism is the refusal of the existence of gods, not the existence of entities

[dusk patrol]

Kin literally just barely have souls

[celest dome]

Atheism is denying the existance of god or any god
Denying the Godhood of the Chaos God make you an Atheist

[barren tapir]

They could actually work

[dusk patrol]

Tau chaos mostly ignored, and the one time it didn’t with their auxiliaries it went really really bad

[brittle slate]

there are likely more humans in the tau empire than tau and the latter generations don't acknowledge religion

their ancestors did though

[dusk patrol]

This is just semantics

[barren tapir]

No, that is just atheism, it is its definition

Necrons are atheist too, they simply deny the existence of gods, but accept the existence of great batteries

[brittle slate]

forgot about necrons

[dusk patrol]

Necrons literally have no soul to prey on

[barren tapir]

Slap c'tan shard
This bad boy can power so much stuff

[dusk patrol]

And they definitely acknowledge the gods existence

[barren tapir]

Entities, not gods

[dusk patrol]

Potato potahto

[brittle slate]

acknowledging a god-like being as an entity from another dimension and using a shorthand "god" is not god.

[dusk patrol]

The Imperium doesnt deify the Chaos gods either

[brittle slate]

well, there goes 4000 years of debate

[dusk patrol]

They still operate the same

[brittle slate]

in a way they do

[barren tapir]

No no, you miss the point, calling something a god give it more power than calling it entity... Seems you cannot grasp such idea

[brittle slate]

the forces of chaos certainly deify the Emperor as a god

[dusk patrol]

Except we see this is wrong

[barren tapir]

It does actually

[dusk patrol]

It just lets them slip in easier

[celest dome]

Still it give a different relation ship between the "God" and the mortals

[dusk patrol]

Like, we have multiple examples of this being wrong in universe

[barren tapir]

It isn't wrong, in fact we see that it is right

[dusk patrol]

Plenty of actual chaos followers don’t claim the gods exist or worship them at all, or acknowledge them

None of this denies them

You don’t need to believe they’re gods to be corrupted or make a god

[brittle slate]

thats because the chaos gods have superseded the need for direct worship

they feed off of all events now in a passive way

like air

[barren tapir]

Yeah, they have grown big, but they can still be starved

[dusk patrol]

Hell during the War in Heaven no one worshipped them at first

[brittle slate]

vs what a daemon would need

[brittle slate]

and they were at their weakest

[barren tapir]

And in fact they didn't existed at the time

[brittle slate]

if anything, they came into form at this time

[dusk patrol]

The War in Heaven was millions of years long and was multiple conflicts

They existed during it

[barren tapir]

Old lore stated that the old three became "alive" during terra middle age, dunno if it is still canon

[celest dome]

If anything their "birth" does denote that they aren't God

[dusk patrol]

Just not at the start, probably

[dusk patrol]

Nah we see examples of them existing prior

[brittle slate]

that's why i hate it when they are portrayed like the greek gods

[celest dome]

Most likely when they revealed themselves to humanity/emperor

[barren tapir]

Which are?

[brittle slate]

with direct interactions motivations and circumstances that lead them to get "burned" or whatever

[dusk patrol]

Wild Rider

Also the Necrons fought them prior

[brittle slate]

technically those are daemons

[dusk patrol]

And the Eldar

[barren tapir]

Weird, since we know that big E was made exactly because the shamans saw something stirring in the warp, and he knew well what they would became

[dusk patrol]

The shaman thing isn’t even confirmed anymore

A lot of that is just old lore which isn’t clear anymore

[barren tapir]

Yeah yeah, old lore, didn't cared much about big E to search for current one

Still, until something more recent blatantly contraddict it it is still canon

[dusk patrol]

Could still be true tbf

[barren tapir]

And we also know that at the time of the old ones the warp was peaceful

[celest dome]

Public and secret knowledge, and maybe they saw the need for the Emperor, but it doesn't mean they know what would appear later

Like future sight is a veiled abilities, nothing is written in stone

[brittle slate]

it wasn't

[barren tapir]

So no, they were born later, during the war in heaven? Debatable, since that is still too early

[brittle slate]

the warp didn't become traversable until Slannesh

well "as traversable" as it is now

[dusk patrol]

We know it wasn’t calm during the War in Heaven later

[brittle slate]

hence the need for the webway

[dusk patrol]

People assume the War is what caused it to happen but we don’t know for sure

Since we don’t know a lot

[celest dome]

Also it also depend on how we look at the Fantasy/AoS and 40k

It's fully possible that the Chaos Gods are even older than that but that they weren't active in the Warp before

[brittle slate]

it does say that it caused enough turbulence to result in the enslaver plague

[dusk patrol]

It’s left up in the air, there’s also some entities which are implied to predate the gods

[brittle slate]

they aren't connected by 3rd

[celest dome]

With them being from an even deeper reality

[dusk patrol]

So who knows when they were really born

If they were

[brittle slate]

3rd edition*

[celest dome]

Still have similar start and similarities

[dusk patrol]

We just know at the latest it was the War in Heaven

[barren tapir]

When i said it was peaceful it meant no chaos entities, there were for sure warp entities though, like enslavers

[brittle slate]

yes, but it doesn't matter, 40k came out of fantasy and they have lots of crossover aspects but by 3rd they is a hard border

like- the company coming out and saying it

[celest dome]

And in fantasy the Great Game is still a thing that exist in the lore

And I don't see the 4 doing only 1 game

[brittle slate]

resulting in a few authors flashing the bird at times - but ultimately that border exists

[brittle slate]

sure- but that doesn't really change anything

[brittle slate]

oh- then that makes sense

[dusk patrol]

Also we have stuff like Belarkor predating humanity

[barren tapir]

We also knew that humans used warp travel and it wasn't all that bad during the Age of Tech, sure, it was superior tech compared to what the imperium has now, but also the fact that a fourth player wasn't present helped i bet

[dusk patrol]

We also have the Chaos gods explicitly hiding during the GC and not showing their force

[barren tapir]

But belakor isn't part of any warp entity, so he could have been a warp entity like enslavers

[brittle slate]

bad enough to create at least 2 races to allow for travel

[dusk patrol]

He was made by the four gods

He was the first daemon prince

[barren tapir]

2 race? Navigators were made to kinda make it faster, but not necessary to warp travel in safety

[brittle slate]

Men of Stone, Men of Iron

[barren tapir]

Ah, those... Still trying to wrap my mind around those two

[dusk patrol]

No point tbh

We have like

Two excerpts on them

Main one being some short story

And the men of gold

And who knows if GW is ever gonna acknowledge it again

[barren tapir]

Yeah, that is why i'm trying to wrap my head about it, trying to find some reason or some hidden meaning

[unique berry]

Good luck

[barren tapir]

I mean, we know that men of iron were just robotic servants of humans

But men of stone?

[dusk patrol]

Men of stone are theorized to be like

Cyborg people

Idk though, it’s all just kinda worthless because if GW ever done expand on it

[barren tapir]

If men of iron are the equivalent of stellaris synthetics then men of stone could be robots, or androids

[dusk patrol]

I doubt that lore will matter

[unique berry]

Arent dwarfs always called kids of the stone in fantasy and scifi?

[barren tapir]

Not that i know

[celest dome]

Due to LotR/Tolkien mostly

[dusk patrol]

Kinda yeah

[unique berry]

True

[dusk patrol]

They’re of stone and chaos corruption and magic for the Chaos Dwarves make them turn to stone

It’s also kinda why they’re so resistant to corruption

Their bodies reject chaos inherently

[unique berry]

Hm interesting

[dusk patrol]

The Kin for Leagues of Votann take after a lot of this

With what little lore we have

[celest dome]

he fashioned Men of Stone to go in his place, and the Stone Men fashioned Men of Steel to become their hands and eyes.

This could somewhat fit the Kin with the Ironkin somewhat

[dusk patrol]

Maybe, but the league lore doesn’t work with it well

Since they can mostly trace back to their pre Age of Strife roots

And imo

It makes more sense that they’re a group where the Men of Iron won

[celest dome]

telling of how the stone men became estranged from humanity by their journeys through the void. This led to a time of strife when the Men of Steel turned against their stone masters and mankind was riven asunder by wars

This is the only part that irk me, the Men of Steel revolted against both Mankind and the Men of Stone, unlike the Ironkin

[dusk patrol]

Imo for LoV the men of iron did win

And they just made people who were loyal to them

And then kept to the core to avoid the other elements of humanity destroying them

Technically the Kin rule themselves but the Votann make every single of specifically for a purpose and shape them

[celest dome]

There is also the case that most electronic components are made of non iron based minerals
Like Silicons

[dusk patrol]

I think it’s evolved into something more

[celest dome]

So AI and Robot maybe

[dusk patrol]

But regardless, we just don’t know much right now with the LoV

[barren tapir]

Agree

[dusk patrol]

And their codex lore is boring af

Super basic

[unique berry]

Yup

[dusk patrol]

Like all lore this edition

Well, all supplement and codex lore

[barren tapir]

But from what i know, i already love them... Minus the shoot on sight with Ad. Mech., but that is understandable... I too would shoot on sight tech stealers

But who know, maybe in the future we will have a new forge world and new league that are best buddies

And both are ill seen by their respective factions lel

[north lotus]

A mechanicus member in a leagues of votan databank is like a raccoon in the garage

[north lotus]

He shouldn’t be there, but by allah he loves every second he is

[vital kernel]

Question really is what the league can actually put up against the Admech in a single fight.
Theres only so far a bunch of heavy infantry and armored vehicles will get you against Cybernetica, Questoris and Titans. So shoot on sight is a fun tidbit and all that but makes me wonder who shoots harder.

[brittle slate]

Collossi sound like their response to titans.

[dusk patrol]

Also they’re just gonna get more silly OP stuff as time goes on

[vital kernel]

probably

[final spruce]

They are gonna come with a planet Smelter and nomnom their ships

[serene mist]

God don't give GW ideas

Please

They already do enough big dumb, they don't need help

[brittle slate]

Awww, haven’t read the LoV codex have you

Because they also eat stars!!!

Lol

[serene mist]

Fuck

ffs

[brittle slate]

Why not!!!

[serene mist]

I hate it so much

[brittle slate]

Just make it bigger and BIGGER AND BIGGER

Galaxy eaters!!!

[serene mist]

They were already stupid with their friggin Moon Rover lookin tanks

Why do they need to do this

Where's the negative here

[brittle slate]

Because bigger is better. Everyone knows that

[serene mist]

This is the Tau but worse

[raven prawn]

Primaris 😩

[serene mist]

Primaris were also stupid
God I don't like so much on this

[summer rover]

were

i mean they're still stupid now....

[raven prawn]

Gw: we heard you like space marines so we made a space marine in a space marine so you can buy and put in your space marine army 🙂

[final spruce]

Yeah in the LoV codexes, you learn votanns have planet smelters and actually try to find Necron tombworlds because they are full of rare metals they can smelt

[serene mist]

You're thinking of the Grey Knights babycarrier now

[raven prawn]

Same thing

[summer rover]

no they gave one of those to normal space marines too

[serene mist]

...I need to see Trayzn lead the Silent King in deleting the Votann now

I need it

Give

Give it to me

[raven prawn]

It's actually just a primaris in disguise

Or out?

Idk

[serene mist]

So here's an idea
A SM Chapter that rejects it's Primaris donations and tells them to go form their own Chapter

A good thought?

[raven prawn]

The thing I hate most is that firstborn marines are basically being retconned out of existence

[summer rover]

so did fatshark make plasma guns vent heat out the highly volitile fuel canister because they didn't know the holes on the front are the vents or because they assumed players would be too dumb to figure out the button if it didn't blast you in the eyes with a steam jet?

[serene mist]

...

Unsure, Orin

But yes I want to go back to Firstborn

There's something nicely brutal about their stuff

[brittle slate]

Aw, you lost a friend in me.

Tau make sense if they’re a foil to the rest of the universe. Otherwise I agree with you. Just grimderp with more blue.

[serene mist]

Tau are offset by the fact that they're tiny and if an Imperial Crusade rolled through they'd be largely fucked

[raven prawn]

It would have been cool if primaris gene seed was actually thunder warriors instead of something just outright better with no downsides

[serene mist]

...I do not consider some of the other nonsense weird stuff to be a thing

[brittle slate]

They used to have those until someone said people wouldn’t spend as much money

[summer rover]

i mean people don't want to buy them as much, that's a pretty big downside.

[north lotus]

Rock and stone.

[brittle slate]

Now 99% of chapters have primaris.

[serene mist]

God I hate it

Hmmm

Carcharodons
They probably don't have Primaris

They barely deal with the Imperium

You think they get mail and packages
Pffft

Naw

[north lotus]

I don’t like primaris from a logistics perspective

[summer rover]

probably do, lore says the magical immortal techpriest made them for everyone. even if they didn't want them

[brittle slate]

Honestly I have this uphill battle once a month on this discord- I’ll summarize quickly and say: the imperium has sent two crusades and both have failed.

[serene mist]

Is this information recorded by the Tau or information recorded by the Imperium

[summer rover]

honestly i'd be surprised if the dark angels didn't just get them wiped out to preserve their secrecy

[north lotus]

You now have 2 sizes of equipment to deal with

[brittle slate]

Weirdly would have made sense if we were 100 years after the rift

[serene mist]

How reliable is the narrator

And does the narrator know what a Crusade is

[summer rover]

have they sent space wolves? space wolves would sort it out.

[brittle slate]

What do you mean? Everything in 40k is basically from the imperial perspective

The tau codex is an inquisitorial briefing

[serene mist]

Not really, I can think of a few (I admit it's really a few) that are done from a xenos perspective

[raven prawn]

Matt Ward 🙏

[north lotus]

It’s a issue of dealing with 2 sizes, which can potentially lacking interchangeability.

[brittle slate]

The fact they “improved” the holy boltgun is the biggest let down

[serene mist]

Agreed

[raven prawn]

And made it tacticool

[brittle slate]

I hate almost everything about the primaris and I think they, truly, have cheapened the 40k fanbase.

[north lotus]

I mean you could maybe argue if it’s a actual feature united example,

[brittle slate]

I know that sounds gate keepery and neck beardy and whatever.

[serene mist]

My overall point, though, is that whoever in those books says "Yeah they sent an Imperial Crusade over there" may not actually know how large an Imperial Crusade is and could be using it in a figurative sense, not an actual descriptor sense for size

[summer rover]

they'd been trying to make the guns tacticool for a few years before the iMarines were added

[serene mist]

I enjoy the boxy Bolter

Praise

That said when am I getting my heavy stubber as a sharpshooter darn it

I want my dakka

[summer rover]

i have a few old 2nd ed bolters i traded for i'm saving for a good character idea.

like assault pencil sharpeners

[brittle slate]

There are several books about both

I guess it depends on what you think “big” is

[serene mist]

From whose perspectives, though?

It just seems...iffy, I guess

[brittle slate]

Mostly imperial

Why is it iffy?

[north lotus]

A problem I’m having is that they aren’t “practicool” setups

[serene mist]

No no I get that it's Imperial

But is it an Imperial that understands what a Crusade is

[brittle slate]

I don’t mind explaining it but I also don’t want to get eye rolled to death

[brittle slate]

Oh- then yes

[serene mist]

Ah

Damn

[north lotus]

I mean for fuck’s sake, put a lanyard loop on your pistols.

[serene mist]

...what's the downside to the Tau, then
What's their failing or issue or...difference?

What the Tau do

[north lotus]

Or a holster

[full bane]

Negative for the Votann is the fact that they're reliant on a bunch of 30,000 year old abominable intelligence STCs for nearly everything and those things are all dying. Also a large chunk of their territory is now stuck in a massive warp rift, and they're a bunch of callous bastards who praise rationality while mindlessly pursuing grudges and resources in their first major conquest in millenia.

[brittle slate]

The first one was petitioned by the ecclesiarchy to send a large contingent of imperial guard, titans and about 2-3k space marines with a smaller assortment of mechanicus and imperial agents to eradicate the tau

[serene mist]

I mean the negative for the Tau

[brittle slate]

The second one was sanctioned by Terra

(250ish years later)

[raven prawn]

Should've stayed eaten

[serene mist]

Is the writing actually good, greebles

[brittle slate]

What do you mean by the downside?

[brittle slate]

The first one has some great writing

[serene mist]

The big thing for 40k is that everyone is a bad guy, in one way or another

Isn't it?

Grimdark and all that

[brittle slate]

The second one is in two campaign books so it’s kind of “video gamey” if you get my drift

[full bane]

They're a tiny race that is woefully unprepared for the galaxy at large, they have an open door policy for other races to join them and it bites them in the ass. They're a contrast point for the setting, showing how the usual sci-fi tropes fuck you up in 40k.

[brittle slate]

Hm.

[serene mist]

Do we have any books that demonstrate that?

Or is that just in the sourcebooks

[raven prawn]

"cultural exchanges" 😩

[brittle slate]

The tau aren’t grimdark. There’s one author who is like Matt ward (Phil Kelly) who’s probably the worst BL 40k writer (his fantasy stuff is awesome) but he tries to inconsistently make Tau grimdark

I can’t really speak to his work because it’s contradictory in every way. To itself and other authors

But

That said

[serene mist]

Is he the one who wrote the Tau human auxiliaries getting killed by the Tau

I remember that
Seemed really dumb tbh

[full bane]

Most of Fehervari's Tau writing have elements of their relationship with their auxiliaries, along with the occasional point where a Tau understands Humanity's massive xenophobia.

[brittle slate]

Yeah. And the sister of battle that was captured and allowed to keep her power armor which she then uses to kill everyone. He’s terrible.

He’s also killed most of our named characters lol

[summer rover]

the tau are grimdark but they're the one faction that wants to look not grimdark for marketing. i would rather they were wiped out.

[serene mist]

Yeesh

[full bane]

I guess some of Phil Kelly's stuff but there's a lot of them and they're mostly bad.

[serene mist]

Glad to know I won't be reading any of Kelly's stuff anytime soon

[brittle slate]

Most people that don’t know tau lore have this opinion

[serene mist]

...mainly because I don't buy 40k books all that often

[brittle slate]

No offense- it’s just the opinion of a lot of YouTubers

[full bane]

Factions make a lot more sense and fit better into the broad strokes of 40k depending on the writer.

And Tau just haven't gotten enough good writers.

[serene mist]

Well then Imma clarify
My main issue I have with Tau is that anywhere I've seen them used, the "grimdark" aspects of them aren't portrayed with the same amount as, say, the better aspects

[brittle slate]

Yeah that’s fair

[raven prawn]

I need to finish the eisenhorn books

[serene mist]

Lords of Silence humanizes decaying, disgusting blobs of CSM for all sakes

[summer rover]

it's 40k there isn't supposed to BE better aspects. everyone sucks.

[serene mist]

And you get them and like them in some ways at the end

[brittle slate]

That’s not the case at all

[serene mist]

But you still understand that they are absolutely fucked up

[brittle slate]

Almost every 40k story is about hope

[full bane]

It's like post-5th Ed Necrons, they were bland space egyptian robots until the past few years with Infinite and the Divine and the Twice Dead King stuff.

[serene mist]

Hope through a miasma of suck, death, and death though

[brittle slate]

Anyway- the tau are a modern government, or, like NATO

[summer rover]

game was built on satire greebles. turning around and saying "it's not satire anymore" just makes you the butt of the joke.

[serene mist]

People are slogging through things, one day at a time, with 40k

[crisp heath]

Hell, even the Chaos Gods have had good sides since very early lore

[serene mist]

So the big oof is "Why aren't Tau slogging through things" for 40k

[brittle slate]

They do bad things but generally speaking they’re trying to do the right thing for the benefit of the most people

[serene mist]

You just don't see both sides of the coin and all that, at least not in a singular book

[summer rover]

because they aren't willing to really rough them up is why.

[brittle slate]

You get smaller “colonel kurtz” type personalities that are slowly going insane while their leaders are telling them to still be “good”

[full bane]

Check out Fire Caste, both the Tau and the Guard slog through an endless pit of miasma, decay, and corruption in that.

[serene mist]

Fire Caste is a book, right

[full bane]

Yup

[crisp heath]

Khorne is all about honor and sportsmanship and personally stepped in to save Khaine when Slaanesh was born, there's a good side to everything, I think the grimdarkness in 40k is focused on excess, which is why Slaanesh is such a gross deity

[serene mist]

I'll add it to the list

[brittle slate]

I don’t mean to be dense- but what do you mean?

[unique berry]

What is this conversation

[full bane]

Guard vs Tau on an ocean death world.

[serene mist]

Neat

[full bane]

Very good stuff

[brittle slate]

Very good

Also- read Broken Sword

It’s from the perspective of a gue’vesa who used to be a guardsman

It’s amazing

[raven prawn]

And yet slaanesh is praised on twitter

[serene mist]

A lot of Tau portrayals seem to involve either "Tau are amazing" or "Tau are grimderp" and there doesn't seem to be a lot of intermixing between the two in the same book

[summer rover]

slaanesh would do numbers on twitter......

[brittle slate]

Definitely read Broken Sword

[crisp heath]

The Imperium does need to defend itself from enemies, but it becomes overly paranoid about enemies everywhere. The Eldar had a good thing going for them, but they became hedonistic and started having murderous sex-cults. The Necrons only wanted to live fulfilling lives, and when that was denied to them, they started murdering everything in their path, to the point sacrificing their souls to take their revenge.

[brittle slate]

The reason why it’s difficult to show both aspects and not come off as a hack is because it requires better writing

[serene mist]

Add it to the list, I suppose

[brittle slate]

Tau don’t kill each other for example

[crisp heath]

Excess seems to be the cause of most problems in 40k, everything has a good side but they only show their bad side

[brittle slate]

For a writer who mostly does bolter porn that’s almost impossible to pull off

[serene mist]

Random small question

Would any of you be interested in reading a small segment of something I wrote

[summer rover]

just post it like an idiot

[brittle slate]

Would love to

[crisp heath]

idk I get why people like Slaanesh, but as someone who finds consensual relations between a married couple for the purpose of procreation degenerate and gross, I never really liked Slaanesh content

[summer rover]

the crap is a sparring blade....

[serene mist]

A blade that doesn't actually cut or wound, which is used for sparring, blade practice

[brittle slate]

You might be too focused on the sexual aspect

Think more hellraiser

[summer rover]

i mean is it a sword or a overly large fork or......

[serene mist]

It's a sword

[raven prawn]

A fencing/hema like foil I'm assuming

[brittle slate]

Pretty good- is it for a contest?

[crisp heath]

There might be something different for the term in 40k, but irl people use wood or foam with a dense core (the core simulating the weight of the weapon) to make practicing safer, since "sparring" is practice fighting

[serene mist]

No, was initially written to stave off boredom while I was underway

26 or so pages

[brittle slate]

If it’s space marines they likely use their actual weapons

[serene mist]

Why dishonor a weapon by using it in practice, in play

So says this Chapter

etc

[brittle slate]

Because it’s an honor to spar with a brother

I’ve seen a lot of sparring scenes in 40k and it seems like they just “power off” weapons for training

[crisp heath]

I've seen metal foils used, but foils are mostly only used if you're specifically a foil fencer. If you want to practice fighting with, say, a longsword, you'll probably be using foam or rubber, and I've handled foam sabres, although there are also safer sabres

[serene mist]

But not an honor to use your blade without the intent to send the foe to oblivion

[crisp heath]

If you're training katana, the sparring blade is traditionally wood or bamboo

So what a "sparring blade" looks likes varies

[brittle slate]

That sets a high precedent for the warrior culture

I would have them spar to first blood to satiate their weapons spirits

[raven prawn]

Yes I've used bokken

[serene mist]

Can have a lot of Chapter traditions which would frown at using a normal weapon for a training purpose

[raven prawn]

They are still certainly dangerous

[serene mist]

Fairly easy to dismiss

[brittle slate]

If they’re gonna use wood and rubber or whatever- then don’t make them in power armor

[crisp heath]

Oh yeah wood practice weapons are absolutely scary

[summer rover]

it's not bad for 40k, but don't forget to describe normal things. "Blade" is a description for an endless number of things, including hundreds of swords and postures do a lot to carry the tone of a conversation.

[crisp heath]

I'd only use foam or rubber, or metal with a button

[serene mist]

Fair enough

[summer rover]

remember the reader can't peer into your mind's eye.

[serene mist]

Another random segment

[summer rover]

other than that it's a bit flowery for space marines. the writing is segmented a bit too on the artsy side. and that's the end of my feedback for the day!

[serene mist]

Thanks thanks

[brittle slate]

You should join cold open stories

@serene mist

[serene mist]

Was there a while back
They had a marked distain towards "Bolter Porn" and anything that was on Space Marines

Didn't like it. Called it mainstream and the like

I wrote a brief stint for one of their competitions, lemme see if I can find it

[brittle slate]

Was that the guy “wecanhaveallthree”?

Or “mont’au devil”?

[summer rover]

oh cool gossip!