40k-lore-chat

[arctic talon]

And also because there’s an even lower rung in society

Tech-thralls

[storm jungle]

Entirely dependant on the Inquisitor

Grendyl is just using a tons of people as fodder, the more you up the ranks the more you can get familiar with your Inquisitor in question.

In his case he doesnt seem to care much probably but the Inqs you can meet face-to-face can basically become your surrogate dad almost from how humble and nice they can be while purging entire planets of chaos corruption lol

the other option is just "I'm your boss. Do what I tell you."

its entirely left open relationship wise between them and their retinue for homebrew purposes

[arctic talon]

And being a tech thrall is honestly even worse then being a servitor

[high steeple]

When I hit level 30, I expected a special uniform, a new gun, something. On the one hand, I love it that not getting executed is the reward and on the other most games give you something when you max out.

[storm jungle]

I mean yeah

this is a wide-public game

you aren't going to become someone like an Interrogator

[arctic talon]

You got a tiny symbol telling you you’re part of the warband

[storm jungle]

^

you get a shiny medallion

[arctic talon]

^

[storm jungle]

also take the Hereticus Oath

so canonically you basically become henchmen to Zola and Morrow which is a pretty good gig

you are basically the 10%

the 90% are all the rejects that go to Atoma and dont make it back

[arctic talon]

More like 1% lol

[high steeple]

A title would have been cool, too, even "henchman/woman"

[arctic talon]

Being under an inqusitor like that is rare

[storm jungle]

You get a title

Acolyte™️

which is a literal Agent of the Throne as per the RPG rules

so you arent a nobody

[high steeple]

@storm jungle where do you see the title other than them saying it to you?

[storm jungle]

Constantly through the vox

and the characters chat about it in passing lines

It doesnt really need to be hammered in

[crimson kayak]

More than acolytes we are his glorified personal army

... A warband, if you will

[vital kernel]

what happened to the Ynnari, are they relevant anymore at all?

[crimson kayak]

So we are not really more than soldiers, Inquisitorial sure, but still soldiers

[celest dome]

Yes, but no

The Ynnari plot line is basically dead

[brittle slate]

basically forgotten

[celest dome]

As Slaanesh has one of the macguffin they need

[brittle slate]

they were one of several plotlines left to whither and die during the retcon timeline

[storm jungle]

Trilogy of books got cancelled due to lack of sales since the author's writing is pretty shit

[brittle slate]

so stupid.

should have made it farsight

[storm jungle]

Also there is no retcon

they are just kinda left

[brittle slate]

the timeline retcon*

[storm jungle]

Im sure it will be touched at some point but not for awhile

[celest dome]

Also there was something about Deathwatch doing something about them iirc

[storm jungle]

Nah Grey Knights

theres a company of GK that actively hunt them

which is like one passing mention in their codex

[celest dome]

But why though

[brittle slate]

same reason it always is

because...

[rose thorn]

Isn’t it because they suspect their god of being a demon?

[brittle slate]

no

[rose thorn]

Ah

[storm jungle]

Basically they see them as daemon-worshipping death-cultists

its not a good look rom an outside POV

[brittle slate]

originally the reason why they re-alived guilliman was to make him a strawman to buy the Ynnari time to bring their god back to kill slannesh and suicide the eldar

[vital kernel]

Shame, Eldar seemed to be vaguely relevant to the setting for a year or so before being shelved again.

[storm jungle]

To be fair

no xenos faction is really relevant

Eldar just sit in the pub with the Nids for being the punching bags

you get used to it

[brittle slate]

yeesh, real talk

[storm jungle]

[brittle slate]

but also= yes

[storm jungle]

tbh i say xenos, basically any faction that isnt Marines really

[brittle slate]

most xenos players embrace the fact GW effectively hates us

lol

[rose thorn]

I have no clue how gw messes it up in 40k

[storm jungle]

Basically

too much cooks in the kitchen

[celest dome]

Not even hate
Just apathy

[brittle slate]

they've doubled down on being a retail chain

[rose thorn]

But in AOS every faction is at least semi relevant

[brittle slate]

retail chains just make money

[storm jungle]

AOS doesn't have the "pyramid" problem

[brittle slate]

been like this since 2008ish

[storm jungle]

there is no superior super-selling faction at the top

[brittle slate]

and they lost all the actual gamers

[storm jungle]

everyone gets their share

[rose thorn]

AHHhhHh

[vital kernel]

poor xenos, not getting any love

[rose thorn]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

40k its Marines and everyone else

[brittle slate]

hence... 30k

[vital kernel]

40k is primarily Marines vs evil Marines

just like 30k

[storm jungle]

Also literally all the good writers and model makers work for AOS

[celest dome]

Fantasy Battle had a high presence of Empire players, and Chaos+Skaven iirc

[storm jungle]

mostly at least

[rose thorn]

God I love AOS

[storm jungle]

I am gonna get into at some point

[vital kernel]

AoS needs all the help it can get

[storm jungle]

it doesnt

[celest dome]

Tbh AoS is great

[storm jungle]

its making bank

lmao

[rose thorn]

AOS is going great, the worst disappointment I’ve had in AOS is I don’t like the new gloomspite model

[storm jungle]

^

AoS is extremely open to new players and the lack of fascists and chuds helps a lot

[celest dome]

My only teeth against AoS are the Fyreslayer

[storm jungle]

that and the games are pretty fun, i tried a few

[rose thorn]

I literally can’t tell the difference between their units lmao

[celest dome]

Warcry is easy to go around to do

[celest dome]

Aye, and they are all free ballling

[brittle slate]

Lol

[storm jungle]

Fyreslayers are basically:

[rose thorn]

It’s pretty funny though

[storm jungle]

"What if we took this unit but just gave them different hair styles"

dwarf in diaper and axe

nothing else

[brittle slate]

That and they make major sales to things like the DND crowd

[storm jungle]

ad infinitum

[brittle slate]

Grew during covid by a lot

[celest dome]

I mean, old Slayer were great

[storm jungle]

And yeah Greebles is on point

AoS makes money on par with 40k and a lot more at times

[rose thorn]

OH YEAH blades of khorne aren’t doing very well

[storm jungle]

the accessibility is the name of the game

$$$

[rose thorn]

But there is no ‘100% gonna lose amey combo’

Like LoV Vs knights

[brittle slate]

Most people that say AOS is struggling are just stuck in dick measuring mode. A common side effect of echo chambers. But I digress.

[brittle slate]

I’m not sure about this honestly. I know that the IP of 40k is the second largest money maker for the company and the competitive scene has more visibility

[storm jungle]

It comes and goes but its definitely rolling in more fans each passing year

[brittle slate]

There’s also the fact that the US has always been bigger with 40k while fantasy is more European in terms of sales numbers.

[rose thorn]

A channel I like said ‘there’s the strong, the normal, and the underdogs, an underdog army can beat a strong army but it will just be harder.’

[brittle slate]

I believe it. AOS fans are always nicer than 40k as a rule I’ve experienced

[storm jungle]

Yeah surprisingly so

[brittle slate]

Fantasy was like that too

[rose thorn]

Oh yeah totally, And it’s pretty diverse in play styles too

[brittle slate]

It might literally be the fact that at least once a month 40k fans need to address something involving fascism

And the more aggro fans always seem to be on the side of sweeping it under a rug or making excuses

Which influences the newer fans. Makes for a hard place to be a nerd

[brittle slate]

I think this is the strongest thing about AoS

I think you basically have gun line armies in 40k

[rose thorn]

I love how every book has like 3 different armies in each

[brittle slate]

The best tyranid army I ever faced was gun line. Most boring stupid 2 hours of my life.

[rose thorn]

I think my favroite armies to watch in AOS is probably cities

It’s like, a soup army, that’s actually works

And there’s so many play styles

[arctic talon]

AoS has a lot more diverse play atyles

And cooler rules

[rose thorn]

I’ve seen super elites cities armies

[arctic talon]

The only real armies with multiple play styles in 40k are like

Idfk

[rose thorn]

Melee Marines, fast, mairnes, gun mairnes

[arctic talon]

Marines play samey tbh

Even if you’re running gun line marines

[rose thorn]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

You’ll still have melee units for screening

Nids have diverse play styles

In theory

[rose thorn]

I hope 10th edition makes 40k more like AOS

[arctic talon]

Except the best way to play nids is spamming transhuman Warriors

Out the ass

[brittle slate]

Eh

They need to go bigger

[arctic talon]

Agree in terms of play style variety

[rose thorn]

Yeah

That’s what I mean

[brittle slate]

AoS doesn’t have vehicles like 40k

They need to fix vehicles

[arctic talon]

I don’t think terrain destruction would work like it does in AoS

Vehicles are “fine”

[rose thorn]

I heard new guard is pretty diverse if you aren’t a meta drinker

[brittle slate]

And I don’t see it going back to armor facings which was perfect

[arctic talon]

Depending on the faction

[brittle slate]

No one takes them…

[arctic talon]

Eh there’s a chance

[arctic talon]

Guard, admech and deldar

[brittle slate]

https://tenor.com/view/endgame-avengers-hawkeye-clint-barton-dont-give-me-hope-gif-15254733

[rose thorn]

God I love imperial knights

[arctic talon]

Also custodes

Harlequins also

[brittle slate]

Teleporting guard and bodies is how to go. I’ve never seen vehicles in a admech army when you can take robots

[arctic talon]

Yeah they are really diverse gameplay wise

In theory

[rose thorn]

I love armies that no 2 armies are the same

[arctic talon]

Robots suck rn lol

[brittle slate]

There’s a better way to do every army without vehicles

[arctic talon]

It’s all about the chickens

[brittle slate]

Now*

[arctic talon]

They’ve sucked for all of 9th

[rose thorn]

Yeah, there are some issues but over all it’s great

[arctic talon]

Aside from the Lucius meme list

[brittle slate]

Oh, not really.

[arctic talon]

Which was teleporting a bunch of punch bots

[rose thorn]

If you want to have the most fun playing imperial knights

[arctic talon]

Ironstriders have outclassed ranged kastellans all edition

[brittle slate]

I was in Vegas and the mechanicus armies that placed all rocked robots as their centers

[rose thorn]

Make every one of your knight’s it’s own character

[arctic talon]

Also for deldar vehicles are essential

[signal bramble]

So the new weapon camos specifically mentioned the remnants of the astral tigers, a traitor legion from the badab war. 😮

[arctic talon]

Same with harlequins

[brittle slate]

Yes but there are also 23 other factions

[arctic talon]

Also guard spams sentinels out the ass rn

[brittle slate]

Vehicles used to be a big part of every army

And not just single entry just takes

[arctic talon]

Marines run dreads which are “vehicles”

Actually I think they aren’t even vehicles in HH 2.0 now

[signal bramble]

There are some death guard builds with PBC's also.

[brittle slate]

Dreads have never recovered.

[arctic talon]

Lemme check lol

Dreads are literally the best thing in marines rn

Redemptors

[brittle slate]

But as I said. The vehicle system is stupid right now

I don’t know the last time I saw a landraider

And tau players that take tanks love tanks, but mathematically it’s better to go with almost anything else

Especially for septs not t’au

[arctic talon]

Land raiders have always sucked

[rose thorn]

What 40k army do you want to get a glow up

[arctic talon]

Since 7th tbh

[rose thorn]

Like remade from bottom up

[arctic talon]

None of them need a remake

[brittle slate]

Hm.

Yeah, not a remake

[rose thorn]

Rules wise

[arctic talon]

But for an entire new line

Of minis

I’d want Tau to get it prolly

[brittle slate]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

Maybe eldar

[brittle slate]

Most of their line is 20 years old

[rose thorn]

I’m excited to see new tau models

[arctic talon]

But Tau and eldar both need new minis

[brittle slate]

Eldar should have finished their revamp. Don’t know what happened.

[rose thorn]

I don’t like how they look very much tbh,

But I’m bias

[arctic talon]

They’re prolly gona do it in waves

Instead of dumping it all at once

[brittle slate]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

Also necron characters need updates but the rest of the faction is fine

Uhhhh

I think that’s all I’d want new minis for

A complete revamp for rules prolly admech lol

[brittle slate]

Yeah. Can’t really say much more

[arctic talon]

There’s no getting around the fact admech for the entirety of their existence

[vital kernel]

they banked on waifu money, but failed

[arctic talon]

Has either been batshit insanely broken

Or literally terrible

No inbetween

[brittle slate]

No play testers

[arctic talon]

7e Admech war convocation was a mistake

8e Kastelan castle was a mistake

9e skitarii spam out the ass was a mistake

[brittle slate]

Yeah…

[arctic talon]

Any other time inbetween admech has been terrible

They’re either game breakingly good or like

Bad

[brittle slate]

I also miss when there was a reason to take every unit in a 40k army

I’d like that addressed rules wise

[arctic talon]

Honestly there’s a reason for that in eldar rn

To take every unit

Or rather almost every unit

Storm guardians continue their legacy of being absolutely dogshit lol

[brittle slate]

Yes I’m talking about every faction though

[arctic talon]

Fair

But there’s 0 chance imo that every data sheet in the marine codex is good

There’s way too much crap in there

Guard is also pretty well balanced

[brittle slate]

And I hate hero takes

[arctic talon]

Honestly the late codexes of this edition have had pretty “well rounded” codexes

[brittle slate]

Especially for crusade play

[arctic talon]

In terms of stuff being usable

I don’t think there’s a data sheet that’s been objectively bad

In any of the recent codexes

[brittle slate]

Yeah but the synergies are abusive

[arctic talon]

unlike some certain other codexes

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[brittle slate]

Hence the immediate nerfing

[arctic talon]

Not saying they aren’t

But at least they have the right idea for internal balance now

Bcs necron codex was a big fucking ????

[brittle slate]

Maybe

Yeah

[arctic talon]

Ngl it’s honestly hilarious to me

The moment dreads stoped having Hull stuff

In HH

They became broken

[sinful crater]

we are at the point where to balance anything is complicate, i means whatever it is they have tons of unit, dozens of faction each with them special rule for try to make them unique... hard to balance everything

[vital kernel]

issue isn't helped by the obvious problem that GW always tries to sell plastic with advantageous rules

[arctic talon]

Except new stuff isn’t always good

[sinful crater]

the true trouble in balance, whatever the media, is hard, since dev or creator will create rule and stuff without try to break them own game...when player get the rule and stuff and have tons of time for find a way to break the game in the goal to be the best.... not because they are "skilled" simply because them build are meta

[vital kernel]

Not all stuff. But there is always that one thing that just breaks the game.

It keeps the meta carousel moving

[fallen marsh]

Well....meta was rather stale unit Votann. 3 armies with 70% winrate and rest somewhere in the dust

[vital kernel]

Yes, now the new faction is surprisingly the new meta

almost as if... sell plastic

[fallen marsh]

Last year was exception from power creep rule.

But World Eaters probably won't shake up things

Maybe IG

[sinful crater]

that the trouble adding new stuff to something will shake stuff, but at the same time will break it. let's face it when you add something you want the player to find it cool and play it (and yes they want to sell stuff too they are not charity)
let's face it, when the new class of darktide will come you have a high chance that it will be broken

but well, it's not like GW or FS will really listen to what we say... because player don't know what is good for them

[vital kernel]

Techpriest, hopefully

[sinful crater]

or this : https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/0/08/Hospitaler_Sister.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120409225829

[vital kernel]

why not both

[sinful crater]

totally

[celest dome]

For TT or for Darktide ?

[sinful crater]

darktide

hospitalier exist for long

[vital kernel]

Faith and Steel DLC, an examplar of the Ecclesiarchy and an exemplar of the Mechanicus. Great opportunity for theological disagreements

[sinful crater]

oh shit didn't think about it haha

[celest dome]

If they introduce a new archetype its most likely going to be 1 at a time

Like 1 in 2 year, and 1 in 4 or something like that

But I don't think we'll see Power Armour

[vital kernel]

Which is a shame, because it would literally print money

[sinful crater]

let's be honest one second, first they need to balance (rework) the mess that is the zealot

[celest dome]

It would, but it also is an investment

[celest dome]

And the Psyker

[vital kernel]

I don't see why we wouldn't to be honest.
Already we have seen full body armour and a literal potato suit having no impact on damage taken. Powerarmor is not a huge step up

[sinful crater]

psyker need to be redone from scratch instead to equip weapon that will give him access to spell i will prefer that we equip spell

[celest dome]

We're gonna have lore complainer with it

[celest dome]

Well that would make it a new game or necessitate new stricter restrictions

[sinful crater]

whatever they add people will complain

[celest dome]

The Psyker weapon wise is good, it's just the Warp charges and the Headpop that need to change

If they add a Sister, to differentiate if from a Zealot, they could axe it on Shield/Act of Faith instead of Zealotry

[vital kernel]

people already complain

[celest dome]

They way you have a more support/Warrior Priest like archetype

Chosen of the Emperor and all that jazz

[sinful crater]

zealot =/= sister, yes repentia is a zealot but the rest even if they are zealous they are far to be the same... they don't rush in while wearing t-shirt

and that why i did say to add an hospitalier more than anything else, someone based on faith and support

[vital kernel]

Our chars aren't main characters, but they are the sort of people who make it onto a cover with a named character.

[sinful crater]

but well, fatshark is the one that decide not us, we can only dream

[vital kernel]

we are the audience of their product

they have a vested interest in pleasing us

[sinful crater]

naturally, but since we don't know them original plan we can't know how far they are ready to go

[celest dome]

Is that Lord Solar Macharius ? And the person on his left holding a knife nehind their back a reference to the fact that he was assassinated

[sinful crater]

by the way, did you see the trailer of nexus paria?

[arctic talon]

Yeah that’s macharius

In that cover

[sinful crater]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBuvrs_Gd18

[arctic talon]

It’s a continuation of the 9e trailer

Which is neat

Odds are the primaris sgt. Is gona bite it tbh

[signal bramble]

If a guardsman tried arguing with a sister about staying alive rather than dying for the emperor the sister would probably shoot her for her heresy.

[arctic talon]

Depends on the situation

Tbh

They prolly won’t kill an ally in a situation like that

[sinful crater]

i think she must be arguing about save more life

[arctic talon]

^ that also

[sinful crater]

and in a battle against necron, that seems to be a losing one, you want to keep every soldier alive

[signal bramble]

If the world is already dead they may be the last resistance.

But idk.

The pariah nexus is an interesting area so I wonder how that will affect the story.

[sinful crater]

yeah, it will be probably something where everyone die at the end

but one more time, it's me or we have tons of stuff about SoB that come out recently?

[signal bramble]

Not more than any other faction really.

I'm listening to the new rogue trader novel right now and it's a bit of a mess.

[sinful crater]

no i'm talking or the representation, you had a few game adding sister of battle in them roster (gladius, battlesector and martyr) and now this series that will be following a sister

[signal bramble]

Idk, them getting added to a few side projects isn't a huge deal. Most of their money is in the models.

[rustic spruce]

are there any melee weapons capable of blocking a necron warscythe or do you always need to dodge them

[brittle slate]

Feels odd

[queen fern]

this is so pog

and there are some Krieg boys in the trailer

if Im correct

[sinful crater]

wait... i means warscythe are able to cut like butter space marine armor.... and you want to block it?

[signal bramble]

You could probably block the metal handle rather than the scythe itself.

[sinful crater]

yeah, you even see what seems to be a salamander snaps the neck of a krieg

[queen fern]

I thought that was one of the new blue astartes guys

since we see him after that

[sinful crater]

if i'm not wrong the thunderhawk is a salamander one

but it can be the light then who know

[queen fern]

Krieg chaos cultist ig

[sinful crater]

more krieg necron pariah?

[queen fern]

what is a pariah btw

[signal bramble]

Blanks.

[sinful crater]

necron pariah if my memory are right they are human turned into necron, but i can be wrong

[queen fern]

oooh yeah right I remember now

[signal bramble]

The pariah nexus is an entire anti warp region of space that psychic powers can’t function in at all and dims the souls of those within to nothing.

The necrons are planning on using the soulless humans as experiments in bio transference.

[queen fern]

we did see a guy tortured by necrons so probably yea

[signal bramble]

The necrons specifically developed it for the purpose of wiping out the overflowing warp power. Some sisters of battle were lost there but through the sheer power of their faith were able to invoke big E’s power to protect them.

Which should not have been possible.

[sinful crater]

shhhhht plot armor is strong in this

[signal bramble]

Yeah it’s one of those cases where faith powers work how the author wants.

[sinful crater]

i means technically, the imperium can't win against necron then... shrugs

[barren tapir]

Seems to be some zombies in there too

[signal bramble]

The nexus is only one region of space. It’s not galaxy spanning or anything.

Though warp travel doesn’t function there either iirc.

Once you get within a certain distance you just get yanked out of the warp. An experience which books have informed us is extremely unpleasant to say the least.

[queen fern]

are zombies a thing in warhammer

[signal bramble]

They are.

[queen fern]

I mean aside from like nurgles minions probably

[sinful crater]

nurgle say hello

[barren tapir]

Yes, but normally they don't look like the ones in the video

[signal bramble]

The nurgle zombies are the primary types.

[queen fern]

got it

[signal bramble]

Unless you count the brainwashed slaves of the Enslavers and other psykers who have no thought or free will of their own.

[barren tapir]

What is interesting is that the nexus has some peculiar effect, which could theoretically make living beings with warp connection into some sort of zombies in due time

BUT should have no effect on blanks... Which also mean that, as the great rifts led to bigger numbers of psykers, living withing the nexus could bring to increased number of blanks from the populations within it

Which would have huge ramifications about the pariah gene in humans

[signal bramble]

Dunno about that. Humans there have their souls extinguished and become practically drones.

Plus the necrons are experimenting on all of them for bio transference.

[barren tapir]

That is the main thing though, blanks shouldn't be affected at all since they already have no connection to the warp, which is called soul...

[arctic talon]

Those with strong faith or extensive mechanical augmentation

Endure the pariah nexus better

But they still fall into the same state eventually

[barren tapir]

Didn't knew about the "extensive mechanical augmentation", this is definitely intriguing

[signal bramble]

In theory, but it doesn’t mean they’ll be able to live and reproduce safely in necron dominated space.

[barren tapir]

That is just another thing, i was talking about the stilling or whatever it is called

[crisp heath]

The guy that salamander killed was an unmasked Krieger, which is pretty cool

[arctic talon]

There’s something fucky going on

Since getting pariah nexus’d doesn’t make you into a zombie like that

[crisp heath]

Mindschackle Scarabs, maybe

[hexed shard]

what ship class is the mourningstar?

[arctic talon]

It’s a escort

Of some variety

[arctic talon]

Modified sword class frigate now that I've taken a closer look

about 1.6 km long

[hexed shard]

so its one of the smaller ships?

damn

[arctic talon]

Yeah

smallest class in the navy

[hexed shard]

im looking at it in armada 2

next to a oberon

[arctic talon]

ye

smol lol

[hexed shard]

wait, sword class or firestorm?

[arctic talon]

Uhh

Wait is it a firestorm?

[hexed shard]

idk

[arctic talon]

Nvm it has the guns of a firestorm

but front prow of a sword

with torpedo tubes

[hexed shard]

so basically rhe devs made it up

[arctic talon]

Nah

its a rogue trader ship

but the base seems to be a firestorm

seeing as it has 2 guns on each side but no lance

So odds are the lance was too expensive lol

[hexed shard]

didnt know brahms was broke

[arctic talon]

Eh

[vagrant flicker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1D9a7YWp1A

[arctic talon]

Lance weapons are fancy

gota maintain them a lot

rogue traders don't always have that luxary

torpedo tubes are simple as keep it clear

[hexed shard]

whats the largest ship in the imperium?

[arctic talon]

Define ship

Do we include star forts

[hexed shard]

no

[arctic talon]

Okay

[hexed shard]

not space stations and stuff like that

[arctic talon]

do we include giant chunks of planets

[hexed shard]

just like cruisers and dreadnaughts

[arctic talon]

repurposed into a ship

okay

[hexed shard]

just regular ships

[signal bramble]

Gloriana class iirc

[arctic talon]

Phalanx(technically)

Gloriana is the largest ship class that isn't one of a kind

but Gloriana's are all custom made and not great in actual navy battles without heavy support

They're force multipliers

[signal bramble]

Well he was just asking largest.

Not most powerful. XD

[arctic talon]

TRUE

Phalanx is a very big (technically)

tbh

[hexed shard]

is phalanx a ship though?

it looks more like a space station

[signal bramble]

It’s capable of warp travel. Ergo it’s a spaceship.

[hexed shard]

i mean i wouldnt call the death star a ship

the phalanx is a "mobile fortress"

[arctic talon]

It travels as fast as a battle ship

So yes

I’d consider it a ship lol

That thing has no right moving as fast as it does

But Dark age of technology wins again

[vocal drum]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bSUGllEeQMw

EXUSE me?

thats cruel

[arctic talon]

[rose thorn]

Oh god Weshammer is posting about Slaanesh, what did he say?

[brittle slate]

Who cares.

hair flick

[brittle slate]

Of these one that I’m on board with the most is probably that the emperor didn’t mind the horus heresy happening

I don’t know about planning it

But it certainly cleaned out all the problem kids in preparation for “phase 3”

[rose thorn]

Fair

[long kelp]

also cleaned out all of his organs

and bones

well not bones but you get what i mean

this would be pretty cool honestly

[brittle slate]

I think that’s actually true

[long kelp]

i hope it is

imagine a little civil war within their legion

[brittle slate]

The tau being the emperor’s backup plan doesn’t make sense.

[long kelp]

yeah that's not really a thing i see happening

"HUMANITY" - emperor

[brittle slate]

I do like that the old ones are the tyranids. But that’s really StarCrafty

[long kelp]

makes aliens

[long kelp]

also halo-ey

flood vibes

[brittle slate]

Oh right

[long kelp]

i like how they're a bit unknown

they could be the old ones, they could be the old one's weapons, they could be from nowhere

er, somewhere other than the milky way

that's probably my favorite kind of 40k lore

the stuff you can fill the blanks for

[crisp heath]

I like the idea that they're completely unrelated to anything prior to M41 because they're literal intergalactic threats

[long kelp]

yeah

makes me wonder, though

how powerful actually are they

[crisp heath]

I think it's been confirmed that they've taken a little nibble out of 11 galaxies so far?

[long kelp]

a nibble could mean a lot

it could be a whole segmentum, it could be a few systems

it could even mean 3/4ths of it or the whole thing if you really take a stretch

i kinda hope they go all into the unknowable horror aspect of the tyranids though

[crisp heath]

Behind the Hive Fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed. 5th edition codex

[long kelp]

that is a bit more than a nibble lol

yeah that's uh

rough

[crisp heath]

Yeah, I like the alieness of them. We have almost no lore on Norn Queens except that one time a norm queen telepathically begged a space marine for her life and then did a psychic scream that made their astropaths get a little fucky wucky

[long kelp]

that's really cool

makes me wonder what the most powerful single organism is

and what it could do

[arctic talon]

Norn queen arguably

Since it’s a large synapse creatures

And also powerful psychically and physically

[signal bramble]

A dozen? That’s more than 11! But not quite 13.

[crisp heath]

I mean there's a literal immortal Carnifex walking around somewhere

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[vital kernel]

anyone know what the yellow sign is supposed to be and why a very similar symbol is on all the green tarps in Throneside?

[signal bramble]

Looks like they ripped a warning sign out of it.

Those look like nails.

Though the triple symbol is similar to nurgle I suppose.

[vital kernel]

doesn't really explain why a very similar symbol would be on construction tarps in Throneside.
I figured it may be the official Tertium symbol, but seeing it on a GSC sign made me wonder if it has some official meaning in 40k.

it's on the bodybags too, I think

[signal bramble]

Biohazard symbol.

Is my best guess.

[vital kernel]

That sounds quite feasible

[crisp heath]

I was thinking radiation but I don't know what kind of flu is making people shed electrons

[signal bramble]

Biohazard is my best guess or it’s just a generic warning sign.

[north lotus]

The genestealers are probably scared shitless thanks to the nurglings

[dense marsh]

Dante seems like he's being set up to fight Abaddon
Ya think Dante will die similar to how Sanguinius died, with Gulliman playing the role of the Emperor? or will Dante pull out a win in this possible confrontation?

Also with the return of the Squats, does anyone think the Olamic Quietude will ever make their way back into the setting? Given how they actually held their own against the Imperium, until the Imperium found and subsequently exploited the Olamic Quietude's massive glaring weakness, to win the conflict. Whole thing always seemed a bit too clear, cut and dry.

Ever wonder if any of the old alien species from way back when Primarchs were all still stomping around will ever come back to the setting?

Think we'll ever see the "Angel" set loose upon a Primarch?

Gork, or Mork?
Taco Tuesdays, or Taco Fridays?

[unique berry]

Its 8:30 in the morning why

[dense marsh]

Because why not, fellow hobby enthusiast? 🕊️

[unique berry]

Fair point

[upbeat dagger]

so i just saw the pariah nexus trailer, it looks ok but also yes commissar that guardswoman right there

[raven prawn]

Life is important

😭

[wraith gale]

Who in the universe has taken the most L's?

[final solar]

As a whole? Prolly The Eldar

Also, The Lamenters

[wraith gale]

As a new ish person to the lore, I only been researching and reading the militarum. Eldar are space elves and who are the lamenters?

[celest dome]

Space Marine who have the worst luck ever

Also, anything bad coming to the Elves and the Eldar is 100% deserved

[raven prawn]

The tau

[storm jungle]

all wrong

Its the Nids

they are the top fodder faction

[raven prawn]

What about Abaddon

[shadow plover]

That's a meme

[celest dome]

All things considered Abaddon isn't bad

[raven prawn]

He doesn't seem like a good guy that's for sure

[storm jungle]

Hes a big guy

for us

[unique berry]

Nah palm tree head aint shit

[celest dome]

I meant in who take the most L

[barren tapir]

If an old faction could return? Definitely yes
Would it return? Very probably not
It isn't far fetched to think that there is another human faction, maybe even near the size of the imperium, just hiding in the blanks of imperium controlled territory

[raven prawn]

Probably the eldar or tau tbh

[barren tapir]

Also, olamic quietude was probably the worst of the human civs the imperium met and killed off

[slender orchid]

Probably Orks really. Or Humanity. Orks used to grow to Warhound Titan size, and have incredible technology. Society, defined roles, even positions of peace.
But the War In Heaven that they were literally created to fight, then the aftermath, then humanity left them a broken mongrel mass

[celest dome]

Eh, the Orks don't really care

[slender orchid]

Humanity, the Golden age, almost being wiped out as a species, losing the place of power, becoming the target of the Chaos Gods, getting it all rebuilt, only to lose half of the population, never recover technology, hope, etc. Until Humanity becomes the Imperium we know

[celest dome]

Unlike the Eldar

If we go way back, it's the Old ones that have the biggest L

[slender orchid]

Ghaz does. The Beast did. Basically when an Ork gets enough perspective to see how far they've fallen they seem to start caring.

[celest dome]

Compared to the War in Haven, all the civs have fallen so much now

And the Orks, or their majority are happier than the Necron/Human/Eldar...

[storm jungle]

Because they dont know their history that much

nor would they really care unless they reach Gigamind levels of sentience tbh

[raven prawn]

Tau because of their "cultural exchanges" with the other races

Particularly the dark eldar

[storm jungle]

Rakarth has pulled that trick with the Imperium lately too, its great

[rich sail]

doesnt take much to keep orks happy

[signal bramble]

They’re the exception not the rule. The other Orks didn’t really get it, they just followed along and did what they were told because Ghaz is big and scary.

[celest dome]

And also they mean to good krumping

[honest trellis]

already happened in Vengeful Spirit

re: "Angel" type entities

[brittle slate]

Eldar. By miles.

Then tyranids.

Then orks.

[wraith gale]

Damn seems like Eldar has gotten the short end of the stick

[brittle slate]

Most W’s is definitely chaos.

And pound for pound Tau.

Maybe LoV could compete with nids for most L’s but we don’t have any lore on them just that the core is fucked.

[brittle slate]

Kind of the theme

But then the avatar is the Worf of 40k

[wraith gale]

In 40k standards that is fucking terrible lmao

[sick notch]

Is there a difference between a regular 40k novel and an unabridged one? From my understanding the unabridged is just mostly an audiobook but does it have extra snippets or morsels of information?

Like I’m looking to start on Horus Rising but there’s the regular one and there’s a Horus Rising (Unabridged) I would like to know any differences before I buy

[arctic talon]

Ironically Imperiums ammount of W's in lore is rapidly dropping recently lol

bcs of all the Warzone books

the Imperium hasn't won a single fucking major warzone or battle

which balances out the string of wins they got during indomitus

[brittle slate]

The imperium basically loses everything between 3 years before EoT/13th black crusade and 2 years after

I think that’s why recent wins feel forced

Like the losses from Baal are insta healed

And guilliman getting possessed by the emperor after being “killed”

The 3d chess political maneuverings that cancel out dissension

And the fact that crossing the rubicon is a walk in the park

[arctic talon]

Honestly even with the forced wins

It’s pretty aparant the imperium is fucked lol

[dusk patrol]

Baal wasn’t really a forced win if you read the book

It’s not even insta healed, they just got a bunch of Primaris who are mostly inferior to all the marines they lost

[wary mesa]

hello lore master

I'm looking for the name of the old big robotic armor used in the Empire, it has a lore looking like our medieval lore, but I'm not talking about the grey knight and can't find it

[dusk patrol]

Imperium?

Or fantasy empire?

[arctic talon]

This?

[dusk patrol]

Unless you mean knight armor?

Like the mechs

[wary mesa]

40k imperium I heard it in a lore video but they are not space marine, just armor passed each generation

[arctic talon]

oh

Imperial Knights?

[dusk patrol]

That kinda sounds like Vostrayans

[arctic talon]

^that also

[dusk patrol]

Or Imperial Knights

Is it one of these?

[wary mesa]

ahh yes it was imperial knight thank you!

I couldn't get the name from my memory

[arctic talon]

They aren't really armor tbf

more like a giant mech lol

[wary mesa]

yh maybe that's why I couldn't find LOL

[arctic talon]

yeah prolly lol

[proper python]

As a source of additional horror and lore exposition, I like the idea of the Mourningstar building a little ad-hoc refugee camp made up of civilians who survived the opening salvos of Admonition's assault

[arctic talon]

refugees are a security risk

[proper python]

Sure, but I'm just having a bit of fun with the idea

[arctic talon]

fair

[proper python]

A surviving Guardsman from a Moebian regiment which refused to turn on the Hive, and was massacred in a last stand to stop Admonition and the Moebian 6th.

Obviously, they were unsuccessful. The shattered remnants of the regiment dispersed and continued on as guerrillas, doing what they could where they could. By the time the Mourningstar arrives, they're functionally annihilated as a fighting force

I think this would be more suited to #theorycrafting instead

[nocturne crest]

What is the worst space marine chapter that could be sent to Atoma for our crew?

[tulip sand]

Love the cain books

[barren ether]

Flesh Tearers or Marines Malevolent. Both would be rough for different reasons

[tulip sand]

Because of them there is a book called waagh and peace and it is canon

[barren ether]

Or Lamentors because they come with some naturally bad luck haha

Flesh tearers or really many of the Blood Angels successor chapters would suck due to the Black Rage. The FT especially as they are not really known to give a fuck about civilian casualties

Marines Malevolent would suck because they just suck. They are the biggest dickheads amongst the loyalist chapters in my opinion

Dark Angels would also probably suck ass as allies, especially if they are “secretly” chasing a Fallen

Then follow that up with the Iron Hands. They are also dicks, however they are ethical dicks

Ideally if Marines were to touch down on Atoma, I’d like either the Salamanders, or the White Scars. Even the smurfs would be welcome as I’d appreciate it if my player character would be able to be treated like an actual human, and not just an expendable meatbag

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

[nocturne crest]

What about the Iron Hands?

I mean, how do you feel about that chapter?

[barren ether]

As the Iron Hands are aligned with the AdMech moreso than any other chapter, they tend to be emotionless husks of people, even by marine standards

[nocturne crest]

I think Flesh Tearers would be interesting. One moment they're ally, then the next moment they fall to the black rage and you have to run.

[storm jungle]

Iron Hands are less "emotionless husks" and more just assholes.

They are basically loyalist iron warriors but remove the action movie one-liners

[barren ether]

They’d most definitely prioritize their objective (probably including some sort of technological safety) and would just get their job done without any regard for their human counterparts

They aren’t bad Marines. They get shit done, but I feel they’d suck ass to work with

[storm jungle]

They are bad marines.

[nocturne crest]

Has the Iron Hands ever had any marines fall to chaos before?

[storm jungle]

Having read their books they go out of their way to be actively dickheads

[nocturne crest]

Other than the sapphire king story.

[barren ether]

Hmm if that’s the case I’ll take your word for it 😅

I’m more of a Salamander man myself

[storm jungle]

I'd say read their novels but they get super samey

its basically

iron hands deploy

flesh is weak

do the job

entire population suffers

grimdark ending

repeat

[barren ether]

Sounds about right 😂

[storm jungle]

Yeah it got old fast 😩

[barren ether]

So my point stands. Would NOT want to work with the hoes

Same with Flesh Tearers. They are natural cunts

[storm jungle]

Flesh Tearers are just world eaters yeah

[nocturne crest]

Loyalist World Eaters

[unique berry]

Fuck dem SM

[barren ether]

“Oh my Black Rage and Thirst is soooooo hard to deal with, I’m gonna be a raging asshole to everyone around me because of that”

[storm jungle]

I SWEAR

EVERY FUCKING BLOOD ANGELS BOOK

[nocturne crest]

Who's the loyalist night-lords?

[storm jungle]

SAME THING

[urban spire]

there are no interesting space marines

[dusk patrol]

Iron Hands books are always disappointing

[nocturne crest]

And you can't say Raven Guard.

[dusk patrol]

GW has no idea what to do with them

In 40k or 30k

[barren ether]

Literally tortured an Inquisitor based off of that premise

[storm jungle]

lmao

[dusk patrol]

And they always give them shit authors

[storm jungle]

Also yeah Iron Hands are that one loyalist chapter nobody would notice if it got removed

[dusk patrol]

Although Voice of Mars was pretty good

[nocturne crest]

Tbh, I kind of want to see how the Iron Hands react to their successor chapter the red talons.

[urban spire]

the only way to have interesting space marines is to have them be independent individuals with their own motivations but they're all hyno-indoctrinated boyscouts

[storm jungle]

nah

GW always ignores that

[dusk patrol]

Not really

[storm jungle]

Marines can have lots of personality

[dusk patrol]

Like people always say that but it’s never really true mostly

[storm jungle]

its one part of lore almost every author sidesteps since its boring

[dusk patrol]

Every chapter has a shitton of variance

[barren ether]

Uhhh nah. That’s just what 40k YouTubers like to spout about

[urban spire]

i don't watch 40k youtubers

[dusk patrol]

There’s some indoctrination but they’re not automatons

[urban spire]

i tried one of them but he got on my nerves pretty quick

[nocturne crest]

Not going to lie, but the marines malevolent has interested me due to their actions.

[barren ether]

Most marines do have personalities, however they have to prioritize the job before anything else

[urban spire]

i don't remember who it was

[final solar]

You need to read the Night Lord trilogy

[barren ether]

More “artsy” chapters like the Blood Angels, White Scars, and the Salamanders, all have characters with interesting personalities in my opinion

[storm jungle]

They are all cute himbos and I love them.

[brittle slate]

I think the only good way to showcase marines is by telling their stories from observers

as soon as you get into their heads it's effectively a 13 year old speed running through CoD

[barren ether]

As a himbo, I love my fellow fictional ones

[final solar]

Or just get a good writer who knows how to write flawed characters well

[sinful crater]

Depend the named sm can bring interesting without forget that some chapter even if they follow some rule they don't always act as one

[brittle slate]

There are exceptions. But amidst the libraries worth of space marine stories not a lot of them are memorable when it's their perspectives

i should add "loyalist"

[final solar]

A lot of it is mostly Bolter Porn as far as i can tell

[barren ether]

Also you can’t forget the Space Wolves. Despite the “wolfiness” being shoved down our throats, they are a chapter consisting of gregarious sorts who are honestly pretty fucking cool

[brittle slate]

because chaos perspectives are almost all fantastic

[brittle slate]

yeah

[final solar]

I heard good things about the White Scars book

[brittle slate]

turns out there isn't a lot of drama when it's just a bunch of guys with daddy issues for 30 years

[dusk patrol]

My main thing is I like the idea of Iron Hands being cold hearted, moral calculus, jerks who operate purely on what they calculate to be most effective

[final solar]

Also there’s Garviel Loken

[barren ether]

Read it. The Scars are a phenomenal chapter, and a phenomenal legion in 30k

[dusk patrol]

But authors mostly just take that idea and go “and they’re emotional dicks for no reason”

[unique berry]

30k>40k SM

[dusk patrol]

Autek Morr is basically the only case of it being played straight, although their recent “Chapter Master” has done better

[brittle slate]

30k is very different from 40k

[dusk patrol]

They’re worse in 30k

[storm jungle]

White Scars and almost all their novels are great, they are just UNDERRATED AS FUCK

[final solar]

It’s funny how a book on the Night Lords of all legione managed to make this into a good point of characterization and conflict

[dusk patrol]

Except Autek Morr mostly

[barren ether]

I love space Daoism/Buddhism with the Scars. They are the real “reasonable marines” in my opinion

[brittle slate]

agreed

[dusk patrol]

Ferrus Manus’s writing is just pathetic

[nocturne crest]

Can you imagine if the Iron Hands did some crazy shit due to their calculations?

[dusk patrol]

I mean they do

[sinful crater]

@barren ether especially grimnar that can be either a master cold and cunning or a bloody warrior

[dusk patrol]

They do get cool bits in their books which show why they’re effective

[brittle slate]

they're probably my favorite as of late

[unique berry]

The love the 30k armor just looks cooler

[nocturne crest]

Like, this guardsman is about to die, best throw him at this xeno soldier to give me time to reload.

[dusk patrol]

At one point one of them takes a power sword to the chest and he kills the marine who did it, then just tells his battle brother that he’s still at 76% combat effectiveness and keeps going

[barren ether]

Precisely. The named SW characters have a surprisingly large amount of depth to all of them if you can look past the wolf shit

[dusk patrol]

That’s basically Autek Morr

He saved trillions of lives by being a cold hearted asshole

He would win fleet battles by having civilian craft block shots to military vessels

[barren ether]

One of my first forays into the lore was reading the first SW omnibus featuring Ragnar Blackmane, and god they are good books in my opinion

[dusk patrol]

He would lure massive groups of traitors to worlds and drop a fucking moon on it

[sinful crater]

@dusk patrol simply cold rational decision not being qnasshole

[dusk patrol]

He basically with just him and his men held down a whole large section of Imperial Space by forcing the traitors to come at him

And saved trillions doing it

[brittle slate]

there's a pretty awesome fehvari story where an Iron Hand's augmetics have kept him semi-alive for years until he's discovered by a Pathfinder team that basically spends the entire time screaming HTF are you still alive?

it's good

[dusk patrol]

He killed millions of innocents still

And he didn’t save them like, by intention

[nocturne crest]

Sounds like a swell guy.

[barren ether]

To quote our beloved Gorillaman, you have to think about the theoretical and the practical. Sometimes you need to make practical decisions that better everyone, despite the theoretical telling you to save as many lives as ethically as possible

[sinful crater]

Sadly in war you can't avoid collateral

[dusk patrol]

But he still saved trillions, and I enjoy that take on Iron Hands more

Whereas, like Ad Mech, most authors just wanna make them big dumb dumbs

Who are dicks for no real reason

[brittle slate]

oh there's almost always a reason

[storm jungle]

I stil love the admech uh

servitorizing cadian refugees

[dusk patrol]

There really isn’t for Iron Hands most of the time

[brittle slate]

someone's gotta serve butter

[dusk patrol]

Like unironically

[brittle slate]

oh, no doubt- i meant admech

[dusk patrol]

Tbh that was Metallica

Who everyone hates

[barren ether]

I agree. AdMech leans into the “emotionless” theme too often, when I feel in reality the AdMech is comprised of Silicon Valley types that love bionics. They still feel emotion

[dusk patrol]

And is now paying the price for it

[brittle slate]

good comparison

[final solar]

Getting into position of authority within Ad Mech society kind of necessetates this, no?

[dusk patrol]

No

The point is being a dick is fine idc about that

But mostly authors get lazy with it

[barren ether]

Now mind you, absolute power will drain someone of emotion and turn them into a monster

Power is a hell of a drug

[final solar]

Oh, that i agree with

[sinful crater]

Well sadly it depend of the writer

[barren ether]

And you lose yourself when you gain total power

[dusk patrol]

It’s just like “oh let me stoke my forge with orphan babies, see how Grimdark I am”

[final solar]

I loved the writing in Mechanicus

For this reason

[dusk patrol]

Forges of Mars is probably one of the best Ad Mech takes

[final solar]

The game i mean

[dusk patrol]

And one of the better 40k trilogies imo

[storm jungle]

Faustinius being all "Anyone who thinks Skitarii lives is expendable IS CRINGE."

[barren ether]

All of you should look up 40k Rogue Trader. In this case I mean the CRPG that’s in Alpha. It’s really really good in terms of writing

The game itself is solid, however the writing is stellar

[dusk patrol]

I’m more than aware of it

Just waiting for it to come out

[sinful crater]

@barren ether I wait it come out for avoid spoiler

[subtle ledge]

Whats your guys favourite book?

[dusk patrol]

Titanicus probably

Or Know No Fear

For 40k

[barren ether]

Storm of Iron. I actually had Graham McNeil respond to a dm I sent him on Twitter talking about it

[dusk patrol]

But it varies, there’s a lot I enjoy

Helsreach is also good

[barren ether]

I’ll share it with all of y’all. Though I’m aware this is off topic

Lovely guy. We spoke a little bit after. 10/10 author would dm as a fanboy again

[urban spire]

the novels i have most enjoyed reading are about smaller scale stuff in the imperium

[wary mesa]

my introduction to Warhammer was the Malus books lol

[urban spire]

detailed accounts of life in a hive, when written well, are shockingly good

good authors get to flex their creativity when writing hives

[barren tapir]

My introduction to warhammer was Goto dawn of war series, pity me if you want, but that taught me how to recognize shit

[earnest snow]

I'm sure a High Lord has a fireplace that is linked to a furnace where servitors do this.

[sinful crater]

Maybe it will not please a lot... But i feel any book not about war will often end into some fanatic stuff

[urban spire]

what do you mean, beldhan?

[sinful crater]

A book without inquisitor or any war, a story about people live in the imperium

[barren tapir]

I mean, horror novels or crime too, get lauded as great stuff

[sinful crater]

Because right now we rarely see a story about normal people

[unique berry]

Thats sounds interesting and lame at the same time

[brittle slate]

Crime

Varangantua is pretty cool for "normal" people

so are the necromunda books

[arctic talon]

I love warhammer crime

[sinful crater]

@unique berry well I can be cool to have the viewpoint of normal people. Maybe something in the same way than edgerunner if that make sense

[nocturne crest]

Any good Adeptus Arbites books?

[dusk patrol]

Crime

[subtle ledge]

Do we think Rogal Dorn will ever return and if so when do we think, maybe if Guilliman were to die?

[sinful crater]

@subtle ledge why kill Gillian?

[subtle ledge]

I just think it would have to take something massive like that for him to come back

[sinful crater]

Not needed you can have him come back if the traitor primarch attack together

[final solar]

Same here

[unique berry]

Something like a GSC uprisings or something would be pretty cool to see from a civi perspectiv

[signal bramble]

I want this in tertium.

[sinful crater]

Happy new year

[unique berry]

Happy New Year nerds

[stark cargo]

I liked the Enforcer Omnibus by Matthew Farrer. Nice world building with attention to detail.

The Warhammer Crime novels by Marc Collins featuring Quillon Drask also have a good dose of Imperial law enforcement ("Grim Repast". I think he also appeated in a short story in "No good men")

[errant yacht]

Am I the only one confused with the logistics of the Primaris Astartes?

I don't mind that bigger, stronger, and smarter space Marines are a thing, but how do forge worlds get around to paying tithes to Space Marine Chapters when their manufactorums are already configured around the interchangeability of the Rhino chassis?

Some specific units also don't make much sense too. Hellblasters just look like a chain reaction of overheated plasma guns waiting to happen. IIRC, firstborn tactical squads only have a small number of special weapons while everyone else has bolters

[arctic talon]

Hellblasters are based on 30k legion doctrines

Regarding forge worlds they don’t pay tithes

To marines

Marines have to request war material

[errant yacht]

30K Plasma weapons were much more reliable than M42 plasma.

[arctic talon]

And the Adeptus mechanicus either gives them what they want or offers something else that they have on hand

[arctic talon]

Not true

They still overheated

If pushed too far

Some of the plasma guns used are still the same from the heresy

Plasma guns were just more plentiful back in the heresy

[errant yacht]

Still, it seems like an entire squad of plasma gunners could be lost to one guy's gun overheating, and the resulting explosion causing other plasma guns to detonate because they were in the blast zone

[arctic talon]

Plasma guns don’t explode

When they overheat

They just vent hot steam all over the user

A plasma gun exploding means something has gone terribly wrong

As in the containment of the miniature sun has failed

It’s the reason why on the tabletop you used to be able to survive a overheat

[errant yacht]

Wonder what caused Guilliman to reconsider the shock and awe value of Assault Marines though? Assault Intercessors seem more of a defensive unit given their limited mobility, and ranged jump jets are much heavier due to the ammo they have to carry, so the amount of distance they have would logically be shorter

[arctic talon]

Lore wise assault marines are still used regularly, and primaris can use jump packs, assault intercessors are more of a thing to sell minis

But they are intended to be a counter charge unit

Unlike assault marines

[signal bramble]

Yeah. Plenty of stuff on the tabletop doesn’t cover the full breadth of them in the lore.

Servitors are a good example.

[arctic talon]

Yeah primaris don’t exclusively use their own gear

They use whatever fits the job the best

A hellblaster will use a heavy bolter if that’s what a mission calls for

They’d just be in a squad of deveatators

[errant yacht]

Personally, I was under the impression that Assault Marines were both a counter to heavy weapon squads and/or snipers, as well as a source of morale for their mortal allies

[north lotus]

As it turns out 12 millenia of near constant use tends to not be good for the function of a weapon

[hexed shard]

If the emperor is a perpetual then why does he need the golden throne?

Isn’t he supposed to be able to regenerate?

[signal bramble]

Not exactly. The general idea seems to be they regenerate if they die. Horus severely wounded big E and containing the power of the throne is preventing any regeneration.

Plus if he dies Terra will be destroyed before he can regenerate

[arctic talon]

It depends assault marines serve a variety of rules

As do most marines

[errant yacht]

Yep, but I'm fairly certain that a Guardsman would be much more motivated to fight harder when seeing an armored swordsman diving onto a Sniper rather than waging war from afar

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[rose thorn]

Wait why did horus change his legion colors and names through out the HH ahyway?

[signal bramble]

Big E renamed them. Both times.

Presumably that includes the colors to.

[rose thorn]

I mean the sons of horus Is a big downgrade to Luna wolves, but I guess we already have a wolf marine chapter

[signal bramble]

The sons of Horus was meant to be a massive complement from the emperor.

[rose thorn]

Honestly it’s still pretty dumb

[signal bramble]

Horus was flattered and didn’t consider himself worthy of it.

[rose thorn]

Really??? I guess emperors children was taken

[signal bramble]

He was yes.

[crisp heath]

I think it was probably a Praetorian Guard reference, since the Praetorian Guard was the closest group to the Emperor, absolutely loved to kill Emperors, and had their sigil changed to a Scorpion from a Crescent right before they started doing that whole "loyalty only to money" thing

but I might be overthinking it

[proud mango]

the reason why it was a massive compliment is that it is the only legion named after their primarch

the emperor is literally displaying his favour to horus over all in doing so

[proud mango]

the change of sigil of the lunar wolves to the eye is a nod to actual mythology and the "eye of horus" and also compliments the name change and honour bestowed to 40k Horus from the Emperor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Horus

The only praetorian guard references are custodes really

the naming of the space marine legions/chapters are very roman in spirit but nothing that are direct nods to any actual legions that were named. We have similar sounding legions such as Ferrata (Ironclad) or Fulminata (Thunderbolt) and Primigenia (Firstborn or Sons of Fortune)

[nocturne crest]

Is the praetorian guardsmen regiment still around in lore?

[signal bramble]

Far as we know.

We haven’t heard anything about their planet being destroyed.

[nocturne crest]

Actually, I'm kind of curious, but is there a planet that exclusively just produces fabric for guard armours?

[dusk patrol]

Can’t think of examples

[signal bramble]

All things considered it’s definitely possible.

[dusk patrol]

Generally worlds produce many things

[signal bramble]

There’s none named in official lore but a planet dedicated to producing textiles or producing them among other things is perfectly reasonable.

In Bloodlines. We learn that on the industrial world varangantua there’s a manufactorum that makes guard uniforms and they work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

And according to one of them, in their downtime they get high off their asses with it being the only way they can cope.

[raven prawn]

Having planets solely dedicated to creating and supplying one thing is incredibly stupid

Because if something happens to said planet there goes your entire or atleast large portion of your supply

But who am I to argue with the great imperium and will of the emperor

[crisp heath]

That's the same reason Hunger Games doesn't work, but having a large area devoted to one thing is sci fi trope so they'll take it

Having the production of things very heavily based in one location is a logistics nightmare. That's why there was such a push to get rubber trees to grow in India, and when that didn't work they just invented synthetic rubber instead

[raven prawn]

I'm just wondering if that was intentional to show the imperiums incompetence or just a product of poor writing

[dusk patrol]

It’s more just writers not knowing how numbers or logistics work

[rose thorn]

its intentional, they talk about in luther the first of the fallen how hsi beautiful planet was destroyed to produce timber and soldiers

the emperor sees everything as atool that only has one use

actually alot of anti imperium books talk about how stupid it is

[raven prawn]

Emps should have known it's not an efficient use of resources

[rose thorn]

yeah, but a god like dictator who wants to be treated like a god but hates religion turns out to not be the most insightful of characters

[lilac wave]

This is actually more of a throwback to the Dark Age of Technology. Labels like agri-world, mining world and so on date back before the Imperium, when presumably interstellar transport was so simple and there were so few serious threats that there was never concern. There is of course obvious value to economies of scale, if you need a trillion uniforms it's probably a great deal cheaper to make them all in one place.

[lilac wave]

This is wrong on a lot of counts. Firstly, it's hard to attribute the state of the empire in M.42 to the Emperor himself. Even when he was at large doing things in the galaxy, it seems like he did very little in the way of organization or administrative work. Even the Primarchs did very little of that sort of thing, so to the extent that hyper-specialized worlds existed in the great crusade era, they were probably the fault of mortal administrators.

Also, the Emperor often seems to regard the Custodes as his most beloved created, and the works that he was most proud of. Custodes are farthest from being tools with one use, they were made to excel at virtually everything and are commonly regarded to be just as adept poets and philosophers as they are warriors. Obviously the Emperor did create very specialized tools, but that isn't the only thing he makes.

That all being said, the emperor has done some amazingly dumb shit. Almost all of it associated with the way he handled the Primarchs who would later go on to burn down the galaxy. Almost every interaction with a traitor primarch makes him seem like a utter sociopath and best, and a sociopath and a fool at worst.

[arctic talon]

honestly he prolly is an absolute sociopath

[raven stone]

Issue with Emperor on a meta level is that several different authors wrote him, and all authors had different interpretations.
In universe, he probably is not as stable a guy as he presents himself to be (but is still a lot more stable when compared to his archenemies, the Chaos entities, lol)

[arctic talon]

seeing as him smiling is described as terrifying as hell

to a Custodes

[earnest snow]

Every time someone has gotten a glimpse of the Emperor's..."true form" for a lack of better word they have been shocked, terrified, etc etc.

The facade behind the actual image

Sorta deal

[lilac wave]

That really is exactly it, though I think there's been more effort put into keeping characters consistent in more recent black library publications. (They've tried at least, if they haven't succeeded) A lot of the lore also has to line up with stuff that was written a long time ago and didn't have much thought put into it.

[earnest snow]

or uhh...idk what I meant by this

[raven stone]

Yea, if nothing else, the HH novels did do a highly competent job in stringing everything back into a coherent narrative, even if there are times where characters had to bend a bit to the mandated plot.

[lilac wave]

That's part of the thing though, when he wants to the Emperor is capable of being immensely affable, charming, convincing, so on. He can be a silver tongued devil, an absolute master manipulator who could convince you that up is down and that the sky is chili-dogs. So it's just...super confounding when all he'd have to have done to keep some of his Primarchs from turning is just give them a few extra hugs. The only reasonably explanation is that the goal all along was for them to turn.

Which is more and more supported by recent novels.

[arctic talon]

The heresy was inevtible in all his visions iirc

So he tried to make it so that a few people would 100% go traitor

to try to worsen the effects

[lilac wave]

He knew he'd lose some, so he tried to make sure he lost the worst ones. Still, some of the shit with Magnus is unforgivable.

[raven stone]

Funnily enough this was somewhat hinted at in some of the books, yea. Not only the recent ones as well.
For example, the way Emps and Malcador described Alpharius Omegon in one of their discussions, it almost sounds like they expect Alpharius Omegon to be the “controlled traitor”
The Thunder Warrirors being wiped is also another hint.
Then there is Horus’ vision from the Chaos Gods implying Emps promised to give them some of his sons.

[brittle slate]

I forget which book, one of the first eight, talks about the only “sin” in the emperor’s eyes was failure and that in a weird way the rebellion was the primarchs still fulfilling their roles

Magnus failed to listen though and cocked it up. If he hadn’t- not much would have really gotten out of hand

[raven stone]

Whilst the modern era Guilliman lore sometimes rushes and jumps the gun, the fact that Emps considered Guilliman a tool is also a hint.

[brittle slate]

Hence why I think the rebellion was an obvious cull

[raven stone]

Horus and Russ both were potentially involved in culling one of the two Lost Primarchs as well IIRC

Or at least Russ was.

[brittle slate]

I believe there’s more of a hint that Russ was involved with both and might have failed in the second one

[lilac wave]

I wonder if we'll ever get anything on the missing Primarchs. Like, at this point the original purpose for them being unknown is not applicable.

[arctic talon]

prolly not imo

even tho it would be cool

[raven stone]

If GW itself does it, it would be lacklustre.
I would rather it remain unknown so crossover conspiracists everywhere have an excuse to write a crossover fanfic where “[X] was actually a Primarch!”

[arctic talon]

anyways if I hear one more person say Carcharadons are loyalist Night lords I'm forcing them to read all the fucking Carcharadon books

because its pretty explicit about their gene heritage

[lilac wave]

I dunno, it could be pretty hype if one of the lost returned with his own faction, having hidden out somewhere for thousands of years.

Also the codex or whatever pretty explicitly said the Sons of the Phoenix are Imperial Fist successors so....ya know. Until I see a DNA test on space maury all bets are off.

[full bane]

Pre-Corax 19th Legion and Pre-Kurze 8th were pretty similar in terms of behaviour anyway.

Space Sharks are just less reserved than the Ravens.

[lilac wave]

I'm only prone to agree because night lords are fucking lame, and Tyberos couldn't have come from Curze's weak ass gene seed.

In fact I think Tyberos could probably take the night haunter in a 1v1.

High diff. 5/10. But still.

[raven stone]

Tyberos from Corax actually makes sense.
Considering the actual Angry Corax could have outright killed Lorgar during Dropsite Massacre

(Ok Lorgar be the weakest Primarch, but the point being…well….angry Corax)

[brittle slate]

Which is painfully uninspired.

[raven stone]

Gotta disagree somewhat, the Ravenguard Legion is one (amongst a few of) the best examples of how a Primarch can change the Legion’s existing culture.

[lilac wave]

Described as being slender. Fucking gross.

[raven stone]

Lorgar is Slenderman confirmed lol

[lilac wave]

The Horus heresy was the emperor's punishment for creating a twink primarch.

[raven prawn]

Fulgrim?

[lilac wave]

I guess I haven't read fulgrim's book, but I don't think anyone accused him of being skinny

[raven prawn]

I mean mortarion was skinny

[crisp heath]

I'd say Corax comes closest to twink-tier but he's still pretty shredded

[raven stone]

Yea all Primarchs are pretty buff, none of them really count as anime twink boi lol

(Even if some are more buff than others)

[arctic talon]

Not really imo

I find loyalist traitors even more boring nowadays

Due to oversaturation of fan stuff like that

[raven stone]

Traitor Loyalists is the only untapped lore market.

[arctic talon]

Eh

[raven stone]

We see hints of that in HH 2.0 rules, but sadly nobody expands upon them yet.

[arctic talon]

There’s some stuff that’s all but implied

I.E Minotaurs

Also the blood ravens have found overwhelming evidence for who their gene father is

But have chosen to remain silent on the matter

[raven stone]

Nah, I mean contingents of supposedly Loyalist legions that sided with Horus

[arctic talon]

Ah

There’s some that exist

Lore wise

There’s a raven guard who went traitor

Some white scars, excluding the whole civil war they had

Some ultramarines

Uhhh

I forgor anything else

[raven stone]

Yea, sad they don’t get a bit more limelight at times. And arguably the White Scars ones ended up fighting against Horus anyways (due to the way their storyline evolved)

[arctic talon]

Yeah