40k-lore-chat

[hushed kayak]

let’s not forget Daemon engines being a thing

[vital kernel]

Actual AI in 40k does create an artificial soul

[final solar]

The Tau from that voyage turned incredibly xenophobic towards Humans

[hushed kayak]

daemon engines

[final solar]

Violently so

[final solar]

Primarch souls technically are artificial

[meager zinc]

That... Doesn't sound like corruption at all

[vital kernel]

But not Silica.

[final solar]

Less corruption and more disgusted by the fact that human faith perverted their belief into essentially spawning a Tau daemon

[rose thorn]

Fair

We are pretty shit

[hushed kayak]

okay this is the weird thing about Primarchs soul, is it true they’re from deities??

[rose thorn]

Besides knights, imperial knights are the best

[mystic geyser]

Deities? Never heard that..

[final solar]

The working theory is enslaved warp entities essentially

Like a sliver of Emp’s soul, bound to a warp entity for power

[mystic geyser]

But they are part of a deal with the warp, so, I guess it's possible.

[meager zinc]

But it saved the ship? What did the tau demon do afterwards?

[hushed kayak]

i keep seeing that on reddit and the lore channel here

[final solar]

Can’t remember where i read this

[mystic geyser]

One theory is they are based off tarot cards

[final solar]

Who knows

[hushed kayak]

what is this Jojo jk

[mystic geyser]

The 20 major arcana

[final solar]

Happened during the 4th Sphere of Expansion when the Tau were attempting a prototype of warp-travel

[echo vault]

What's in his long head, what signal knowledge is in there

[meager zinc]

Sorry man, this sounds kinda unbelievable for 40k

[final solar]

It’s from a Black Library book

[sinful crater]

by the way, i'm curious, what the Votaan use for space travel? warp too?

[meager zinc]

Lol ok nvm

[final solar]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8svmcw/book_excerptwar_of_secretsthe_warp_entity_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Tau Auxillaries with brighter souls + worship of «The Greater Good» = Warp Entity

[vital kernel]

good question, as originating from human colonists you would assume so. But then how do they have navigators?

[sinful crater]

that the point especially since they seems to have continue to develop technology like the plasma sword

[meager zinc]

Yknow a giant, galaxy consuming hive mind i can believe, a giant galaxy splitting warp crack i can believe

But a tau warp daemon??? Your pushing it GW

[sinful crater]

don't forget ancient killing pharaoh robot

[vital kernel]

I thought it was a subtle nod to Gundam with the Heat Hawks

[echo vault]

Broke: Kreig uses shovels in combat because of it's efficiency
Bespoke: Kreig uses shovels to cosplay as tf2 soldier

[hushed kayak]

i mean, if it has a soul. anything can be corrupted

[meager zinc]

A 10k year old white guy named Roboute i can believe

[final solar]

Boring: Krieg uses shovels to dig trenches

[vital kernel]

he's technically less than 2k years old since he spent most of the 10k years in stasis

[final solar]

Who has suffered the most from «meme lore»? Krieg or Smurfs?

[hushed kayak]

Valhallan > Krieg

[vital kernel]

Orks

[final solar]

BRO WOT IF DA ORKS RESSURECT EMPS

[sinful crater]

what if kork are still alive

[final solar]

[final solar]

They are

They’re orks

[hushed kayak]

dat wold be zogging amazing

[meager zinc]

A guy named Angron and no one seeing any problem with that I can believe

[sinful crater]

no i means at the same level that the ancien did create them

[echo vault]

The only kreig meme id laugh at is one where they're all flying around like rocket jumping TF2 soldier

[vital kernel]

Orks can be a genuinely compelling antagonist in 40k. And their tech can be quite interesting to consider the logistical and tactical implications of.
Instead what you get is "hurr thing works because orks think it works"

[final solar]

Just give em a good enough of a fight to krump and they’ll be back

[sinful crater]

but can anything beat an army of kork?

[final solar]

Been loving Catachan Devil in this regard

[final solar]

Necron and C’tan apparently

[sinful crater]

yeah, outside them i means

[meager zinc]

They are one of the most dangerous factions cuz theyre the only ones who are kinda having fun the whole time

[final solar]

Nids in theory

[sinful crater]

early someone have ask who is the good guys... easy, the ork!

[final solar]

Unironically it’s the Tau

[meager zinc]

WAAAGHS are literally the final evolutions of hype machines

[final solar]

But it’s a hard pill to swallow

[vital kernel]

Consider this: what sounds more impressive, a fungal species that inherently knows how to create a wide variety of ranged weaponry from what is effectively scrap.
Or green magicians

[sinful crater]

i found the tau too naive

[hushed kayak]

kinda messed up that when one dies, they spawn more like fungi

[final solar]

Comes with the territory

They’re the closest thing to a good guy faction in 40k

To believe in good in that setting is inherently naive

[hushed kayak]

ThE GrEaTeR gOoD

[final solar]

40k is a utilitarian nightmare reality

[sinful crater]

hey alpharius, did you already start to infiltrate the Tau?

[meager zinc]

Like a waagh forms cuz orks are just gettin stoked cuz this one other ork is poppin off

Thats like pure uncut hype right there

[sinful crater]

joke aside, i want the Ork in darktide!

[final solar]

Yes, hype

[final solar]

We’d lose

So hard

And fast

[sinful crater]

yes, but it will be soo glorious!

and if we fight the ork, we will need melta....and heavy flamer!

[hushed kayak]

[final solar]

Wonder if we’ll see Orks return in Space Marine 2

[hushed kayak]

i think genestealers is more believable in darktide

[hushed kayak]

i’m wondering what’s the surprised enemy gonna be

[vital kernel]

Scrap Tau as a faction, introduce the Xeno Coalitions.
A wide variety of Xeno races that fight together for survival.
Have Tau in there, but as a prominent part of a grander whole, rather than just Tau with irrelevant alien allies that haven't gotten new models since 2003

[sinful crater]

genestealer can be cool, but a horde of boy announced by a powerfull WAAAAAAAAGH! is more glorious

[hushed kayak]

jesus

[sinful crater]

admit you can imagine it

[hushed kayak]

crazy thing is; is that i wanted orkz in vermintide 2

[final solar]

I mean, isnt that the same as asking for more Auxilliaries?

Give me proper rules and models for Dark Mechanicum first

[meager zinc]

40k galaxy is still great to make up small, mini xeno/undiscovered human factions too

As long as they aren't big enough to effect the main factions in any meaningful way

[final solar]

Not to mention, models need to be justified within the war game

[final solar]

Which reminds me

I wonder what would have happened if [spoilers for Horus Heresy book 1] ||if Erebus hadn't fucked up the discovery of the Interex Empire||

[brittle slate]

literally breaks the universe and is bullshit. gw dropped it from the codex and the reviews for shadowsun will likely mean the author is getting jettisoned from tau lore

man... missed a lot

They've also been reprimanded and punished. Kinda sucks but the 4th sphere lore is 'over' and we're already into the 5th.

[final solar]

Wait so it's retconned?

[brittle slate]

They're not really that naive anymore, unfortunately?

[brittle slate]

Christ, your hot takes just get dumpier.

[brittle slate]

Not "retconned" in the Guilliman timeline sense but just forgotten

no one liked it and it doesn't make sense.

9th ed codex left it out

just like 8th ed dropped the "gulf is on fire" thing

[hushed kayak]

||stealing that weapon truly fucked up the entire legion||

[final solar]

||It was only upon finishing that chapter that i got the hate for Erebus, i felt so bad for Horus. That chapter is so well written in terms of pacing and emotional weight||

[brittle slate]

agreed

and i love that the real bad guy in all of this is Er

[final solar]

Looking forward to reading the Word Bearer books

So i can add onto my already existing hatred.

At this rate i'm prolly going to get through them by the start of january.

[hushed kayak]

||the first time we ever see horus feel genuinely bad for what they’re about to do against their empire.
Horus: This is all wrong!||

i’ll never forget those words from the first novel

[final solar]

I've noticed my consumption of BL books only grows with time, and since i'm actually gonna bite the bullet and start assembling and painting my models - i'll be listening to BL constantly.

[brittle slate]

dare to dream

[final solar]

||The description of him just standing in the plaza distraught and Garviel having to snap him out of his sorrow/daze was heart-breaking||

||Horus in that book was such a great character, i loved him and the Mournival's interactions/comraderie||

Fucking Erebus

[hushed kayak]

all my boys hate erebus

[sinful crater]

power corrupt

[hushed kayak]

lately i’ve been listening a lot of audio book on audible. i’ve only bought few books on kindle, which is only Alpha Legion related lmao

i’m gonna hold off on making any armies until 10th edition release

[brittle slate]

smart

[final solar]

That's been my gateway into BL as well, since buying the books is a bit rough in terms of price/shipping and some are out of stock.

Will definately be buying a physical copy of The Infinite and the Divine though

[meager zinc]

You think Santa Claus is stronger than the primarchs? Or the emperor?

[brittle slate]

... and just like that.

[hushed kayak]

because my night lords, and alpha legion, can barely do anything. My blood angels can do better work, which just angers me.

[brittle slate]

never play this game with the idea you can keep up with the meta

just stick to what you love

models, lore, whatever

[final solar]

This is the advice i was given

Which led me to buy a few kits of Ad Mech

[brittle slate]

exactly

[final solar]

not having any experience with miniatures from before

I feel fear and anxiety

looking at all those small gribblies

[meager zinc]

I was asking a real question, sir

[brittle slate]

40k meta, unfortunately, is no longer about making a good tabletop game

[brittle slate]

well. it was a stupid one. so... i'll just refrain.

[brittle slate]

it's a jump in kind of hobby

[hushed kayak]

okay help me on this

[meager zinc]

So, by default, you ARE saying santa claus is stronger than big E.

[hushed kayak]

can my HH army be used on 40k?

[brittle slate]

jesus christ. blocked.

[sinful crater]

shhhh

[brittle slate]

not really

there are some opportunities for crossover obviously

but 30k is effectively 3rd edition

[sinful crater]

what about a traitor legion that was lost in the warp?

[brittle slate]

There are just different rules

different 'styles' of army building

but you mean lore wise?

[final solar]

True, but christ - the details, i am in awe and i love them but man

[sinful crater]

yeah lore wise

[final solar]

By the time i am out of grey i'm gonna be a master painter

[hushed kayak]

FUCK

[brittle slate]

oh, yeah, kind of a 'why not' situation

[hushed kayak]

i know some weapons can be used but maaaan

[brittle slate]

it just depends on how hard you like to go with the universe's lore

but basically anything can happen in 40k

[sinful crater]

well yes, it's 40k

[final solar]

||magnetize them, every single part of them and put together patchwork marines to run as Chaos Warbands - the idea being that they've been scavenging older tech from the 30k days to endure the Long War||

[brittle slate]

but I like harder sandbox walls to my hobby

[brittle slate]

as a tau player we basically invented magnetizing our models lol

[hushed kayak]

funny enough the new HH models are doing that

[final solar]

I was just thinking of the chapter in Soul Hunter where ||Talos rejects the ruinous powers, when presented with what his scavenged, patchwork of an armor really looks like underneath the paint job he's done to it||

[hushed kayak]

that part boggles my head when the chaos gods tried to convert him, but can you explain the patchwork part?

[brittle slate]

he cobbles together gear

[final solar]

what do you mean?

||Talos laments the state of his legion, since they're so weak they don't even have the resources to maintain their armor pieces, so they're reliant on scavenging from other legions or even other Night Lords to keep their Power Armor going. In that scene, a demon of Tzeentch reveals to him what his armor would look like if all the scavenged parts from other Legions were left with their original color and make, showing him as a patchwork of various armors - because "muh change"||

||iirc he mentions briefly feeling sentimental looking at each piece, remembering when he claimed them from fallen enemies or brothers. It also comes up quite a lot when he has the vision of taking the gauntlet from a fellow Night Lord after battling the Titan on the planet that Abaddon is making them plunder||

[hushed kayak]

yeah i remember that

but i was sort of referring to my army how would i properly used them in 40k

[final solar]

Oh sorry, night shift brain

Well if you magnetize them, you could combine various models into "patchwork" marines

[hushed kayak]

ohhhh

[final solar]

Like for instance a Night Lord chest piece with an Imperial Fist right arm and an Ultramarine left arm

[mystic geyser]

Can be done. Wouldn't recommend , very fiddly

[final solar]

Make it a homebrew chapter

Like a Renegade Astartes successor chapter

or a chaos warband

the lore justification being that they're scavengers like most chaos marines

but for lore reasons they choose not to repaint the armor pieces they scavenge

"The Patched Pilferers" or some such

there's your justification

or just don't play it competetively but for fun and make up a scenario where your 30k army gets flung through a warp storm into the 42nd millennium

and boom, roll dice

[echo vault]

I'm basically doing that kinda deal with my headcanon for post heresy sunkillers, where their leader is wracked with guilt after the drop site massacre for setting back the progress of the iron hands countless years due to the mass murder of the iron hands council at their hands, and also how the majority of their brothers are out of their mind all the time now

[hushed kayak]

appreciate that mate, it’ll be hard but i’ll get to it since i’ll be waiting on 10th edition

[near glade]

I’ve been interested in non chaos renegades

[brittle slate]

Soul Drinkers

although... there's obviously a plot twist

[final solar]

That's fair! Interesting mental exercise though!

[brittle slate]

There were a lot of Space Marine renegades towards the end of 7th ed

[final solar]

How Marines Malevolant are not considered Renegades is beyond me.

[echo vault]

So they're a bit like cypher but instead of being mysterious they've just started setting up a small empire with their resources, having looted any vehicles they could on the sands of istvaan V, even killing the pilots of night lords or word bearers vehicles just to steal their tanks

[brittle slate]

basically astartes fed up with the administratum

[hushed kayak]

i don’t wanna regret buying something extra when there might be something better once 10th edition release

[echo vault]

In the second Horus heresy black book during the drop site massacre the iron warriors legit team killed word bearers who were in their line of fire which is lmao

[brittle slate]

well, and then GW decided to 'veer left' and then PRIMARIS

so...

[echo vault]

I think you tried to the wrong person

Replied

[final solar]

I don't have any hope of being able to actually play the game anytime soon due to where i live, so me getting into the tabletop is just gonna be a creative hobby for now.

[echo vault]

FUCK

[brittle slate]

they've just started setting up a small empire with their resources

that's not happening anymore

[final solar]

and nothing of value was lost.

[brittle slate]

ADB wanted to do something with the Spears but that kinda got dropped too

[hushed kayak]

where i live is pretty big, and there’s some crazy tournaments and prize so it goes both ways for me lmao

[final solar]

Sounds like a great spot to be in!

[brittle slate]

no dissension on the imperial sides so the fans have someone to root for I guess

[hushed kayak]

thanks for reminding me, another book to read

[echo vault]

What about primaris

[brittle slate]

one of the better ones, but, remember it takes place about a century after the rift opens

[final solar]

https://tenor.com/view/good-family-guy-cartoon-gif-13932755

I forgot that line.

[echo vault]

And I don't really imagine them having an empire they just try to upkeep their armored division

And obsessively capturing and reclaiming heresy era vehicles

[brittle slate]

they basically undid all the interesting 7th ed lore about independent space marine fiefdoms

[echo vault]

Red corsairs

[brittle slate]

or the blood angel seed program

[brittle slate]

chaos*

[echo vault]

https://tenor.com/view/sex-ahaha-bread-dog-gif-15221732

Blood angels "seed" project

[near glade]

I wish that we never received primaris. More unit types is fine and bigger scale but why primaris

😞

[brittle slate]

money?

boredom?

take your pick

[near glade]

I would also be more fine if they came out with all of the options that the firstborn had

[hushed kayak]

it’s weird how they used to promote make your own chapter, and then bong us with limited cp skills in later edition

[echo vault]

They were kinda bland at first but after the box set with necrons they got a lot better, just style wise

[near glade]

I was thinking of making a very Persian or middle eastern style chapter

[brittle slate]

and then got rid of all the mysteries about some of the coolest chapters

[near glade]

Cause I can’t think of any like that

[brittle slate]

and now its 'new gods'

new gods everywhere!

[echo vault]

Idk what you're talking about

[brittle slate]

https://tenor.com/view/buzz-woody-everywhere-toy-toystory-gif-10833476

[near glade]

I would have preferred dark mech fabricator general

[brittle slate]

9th edition has been about making new chaos gods.

[brittle slate]

seriously

such a wasted opportunity

[echo vault]

Ynnari

[final solar]

Hnng

[echo vault]

Kelbor hal too fat

[brittle slate]

why the fuck do i need a god for every day of the week?

[echo vault]

Can't leave his demon planet

Big wired

Scoria would be a good 30k character to bring into 40k

[near glade]

Mhmm Dark Mech would be so cool

[brittle slate]

the whole point of the time retcon was supposed to be to have us get new characters

[echo vault]

He's the Pinnacle of dark mechanicum stuff, literally sealed in a vault in his forge world until the battle of xana 2 in the heresy

[brittle slate]

heroes and villains of indomitus...

[echo vault]

Anacharius scoria

Big chungus

[brittle slate]

yeah, and the tech god, guilliman's hinted at becoming a god, the living abortion that is the greater good goddess and so on

[echo vault]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-care-gif-23932024

[final solar]

I love the design idea of Dark Mech being bug based.

[brittle slate]

i had a talk with one of the modelers once and he gave me some cool insight on mech design

[final solar]

Arachnoid and Scorpid designs + Heretek = Hnnng

[echo vault]

We need more mechanicus cancer guns

Irrad cleansers, Rad engines

[brittle slate]

the Mechanicus abhors symmetry and rejects it (that's why everything is odd numbered) and they have a thing for spiders

[echo vault]

Just shit that shoots Chernobyl radiation at someone

[brittle slate]

the Dark Mech is big on scorpions and they love trying to make AI so a lot of their stuff, at least 5 years ago, was going toward symmetry

[hushed kayak]

i’m surprised this chat last long, are y’all just working night shift, or just staying up late lmao

[brittle slate]

vacation.

and putting off writing

[echo vault]

Vacation

Also sleep is for the week

[hushed kayak]

[final solar]

I was working a night shift, presently home and ready to enter a food coma at 9:30 am

[hushed kayak]

it’s 1:30am and i’m just listening to audible rn. i finish work at 5am

[final solar]

I feel for you, i work at a hospital so i have another night shift to look forward to 12 hours from now.

[hushed kayak]

are you by any chance a security guard?

[final solar]

Nah, i'm an Apothecary (read: Nurse)

[hushed kayak]

ah lmao, im working as a banquet manager. Trying to finger out what meals to pull off at the airport rn. I’m trying to figure out vegan meals

[final solar]

When in doubt, go for hummus

bonus points for labelling it as Corpse Starch

[brittle slate]

i was on your side of the professional fence for a time. Stay frosty

[final solar]

Don't worry, living in the arctic guarantees that.

[brittle slate]

no way

that's the only thing left on my bucket list

that and i spent two years in the desert

so i don't every want to go somewhere hot again

[brittle slate]

One day

[final solar]

It's pretty ||chill||

[brittle slate]

Either that or I get a grant to go to Antarctica

[final solar]

Good talking to you lads, but i must force sleep - that and stop derailing the lore channel lol

[hexed shard]

Do the orks control more planets than the empire?

[celest dome]

Maybe, but most are independant from one another

[hexed shard]

I thought the imperium ruled most of the galaxy

[honest trellis]

oh neat

[upbeat dagger]

whats a dreadnought

[hexed shard]

a big ship

[crisp heath]

I mean irl they're warships, in 40k they're fatally wounded space marines who are put inside these life support machine/killer robot hybrids

https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/5/57/RedemptorDreadnought.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170620023827

There's a guy begging for the sweet release of death in there!

[hexed shard]

How many space marines are there more or less?

[celest dome]

Not that much

Supposedly 1000 chapters

[full bane]

As many as the plot demands

Same for Eldar.

[celest dome]

True

But they are supposed to be less than 1000 in each chapters

iirce

[mystic geyser]

Yeah about a million is the ballpark

Ofc nobody knows

[full bane]

It should be more than a thousand I think. A thousand marines is full combat strength, but doesn't count the neophytes, dreadnoughts, and specialists like Techmarines, Librarians, drivers, and pilots.

[mystic geyser]

Primaris brought in loads more, but also the cicatrix maledictum meant there were horrendous casualties

[full bane]

At least at full strength, which is more of an ideal than a reality as every single Space Marine novel shows.

[sinful crater]

don't gulliman have said to one of the chapter they don't need to follow the codex about the size of the chapter?

[subtle ledge]

What book should I read that covers current events in warhammer?

[fresh condor]

I believe robot girlyman’s legion has a superiority complex and don’t abide by the new codex astartes. IIRC even Imperial Fists don’t abide by chapter number limits? Then again I’m no lore master.

And I’m a chaos space marines fanatic so my knowledge on the good bois is limited

[barren tapir]

Fanatical adherence to the codex is not a common thing, the few chapters that do so are seen as weird by other ones... Ultramarines use it as guideline, and even modified it before the return of big G too

[shadow plover]

also chapters can ignore the 1000 man limit if they are on an active crusade, which works well for the black templars because they're always on a crusade

[signal bramble]

Also when he came back, Gman informed them that it was meant to be a helpful guide, not the Bible.

[mystic geyser]

@subtle ledge uh Dark Imperium. Shield of Baal, Cawl the great work

[subtle ledge]

in that order?

[mystic geyser]

Uh, look it up

Spear of the Emperor is another current one

[jagged monolith]

Read Cawl if you wanna meet his first prototype primaris marine

[brittle slate]

7th and 8th Ed rulebooks

[brittle slate]

It fits more as a future one

[ripe ravine]

Watchers of the Throne -> the Dawn of Fire series -> Dark Imperium. Vaults of Terra, Devastation of Baal, Cawl, and Indomitus aren't as timeline specific

[brittle slate]

As your reading it don’t think “in the last 12 years”

[ripe ravine]

probably missing a decent number of non series books

Dawn of Fire and Dark Imperium are the main series that follow the primarch

[signal bramble]

+1 to Dawn of Fire. It’s meant to cover a lot of the current 40k stuff along with the 8th and 9th edition core rulebook.

[dusk patrol]

Kingmaker is also during Indomitus

[signal bramble]

Man I loved that book. But i love spec ops stuff and imperial knights are my most favorite faction and what got me in to 40k. In other words, the book hit every note for me.

[dusk patrol]

His model holds up insanely well too

Wait wrong chat lol

But here’s a sick model

[unique berry]

2nd Company of the DA?

[signal bramble]

Yeah.

Samael.

He’s got a sick hover bike.

[dusk patrol]

Ravenwing yeah

[unique berry]

The hunters of the fallen love them

[dusk patrol]

Last hoverbike which isn’t Custodes

Eat your heart out Jubal Khan

[unique berry]

Dosent he also got Corswain sword?

[dusk patrol]

I don’t think so

I think it’s like, made of some meteorite which was made after the Heresy

Which hit the Rock

Obviously meteorites are made of really good sword metals

[unique berry]

Damn Ravenwing got the good shit

Im glad they kept the black armor

[dusk patrol]

They do look sick

Speedy bois

They rival the WS’s in being experts in assault bike warfare too

And going real real vroom vroom fast speed

[unique berry]

didn't know they rival the WS's damn speedy boys indeed

[dusk patrol]

Dark Angels go pretty hard in all aspects mostly tbh

But most 1st founding chapters go pretty hard in what they do

[true rune]

.....is 40k just a my dad is better than your dad contest?

[celest dome]

At time yes

[dusk patrol]

No because it’s not a contest, my dad is better

[fierce pendant]

Wrong

[slender orchid]

More like schoolyard pretend games where people play with action figures. Only some kids get upset if their imaginary powers aren't the BESTEST AND COOLEST. Some kids HATE that other toy and anyone who likes it is dumb, wrong, a mean smelly poopoo head.

[plush mason]

so a normal day at a gamesworkshop store basically

[vital kernel]

By late M36, the Golden Throne began to require more and more sacrifice of Psykers to remain functional. By early M41, four times the amount of Psykers were required to maintain optimal power levels of the Throne.[3] In the last year of M41, Techpriests discovered failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that are far beyond their ability to repair. [2b]

Now this is a lexicanum article, but the sources are legit, and it basically supports my claims from yesterday.
The Admech doesn't know how the Golden Throne works exactly, they don't know how to fix what's wrong with it.
But they were capable and able to create, add and maintain the necessary mechanisms to hook up a multitude of the Psykers to the throne that it originally supported.

So people who yesterday were claiming the Admech has no idea what it's doing and just messes around in the Throneroom without any benefit to the Emperors survival at all, or that the Admech actually does not care about the continued existance of the Emperor, those takes are just plain wrong and not supported by any official sources.

[plush mason]

its less that the admech care about the emperor and more "they have an obligation to do so due to their treaty with Terra"

[vital kernel]

conjecture

The Admech can not continue to exist without the Emperor.

Admech is dogmatic, not pragmatic.

[plush mason]

yes and in their dogma the emperor is merely the embodiment of the true god of the universe, the machine god

[vital kernel]

being "merely the embodiment" is kind of an oxymoron. Seems like a pretty big deal when that's the entire point of their organisation

[plush mason]

did jesus' death break his faithful?

did god die when jesus died?

[vital kernel]

Jesus whole thing was coming back from the dead.

It's not suitable to put an outsiders cynical perspective on the mindset of Techpriests. Even fucking Cawl doesn't question the Emperors divinity as the Omnissiah.

[plush mason]

all im saying is the reason the admech work so hard to maintain the throne is the astranomican and the emperor is merely a beneficiary of that work

and afaik the majority of the psykers feed to the throne are for powering and maintaining said beacon

[celest dome]

It's nowhere clear near the majority of Psyker

[earnest snow]

The emperor is the omnissiah, which they clearly heavily respect, so I don't know how they couldn't care about the emperor if he is a key part of their own religion lmao

[plush mason]

the cult mechanicus exited before the emperor came to mars and will likely exist after he dies

[earnest snow]

Still doesn't remove the fact that they believe he is the Omnissiah and value him as such

[plush mason]

ye

plus he is needed to keep the astranomican working

[brittle slate]

Imagine going to bed this angry.

[celest dome]

The Omnissiah being the Emperor is a tenous claim that a lot of Tech Priest don't beleive

[plush mason]

so that is still a thing huh?

[brittle slate]

Tech priests butt hurt about the imperium? Absolutely

I’d say, consistently, the mechanicus is one of the most detrimental aspects of imperial operation despite being the most vital

[celest dome]

They accept it because they have to, but its the same way the Pax Romana worked where the Roman told that X god was in fact Zeus

Like the local either accepted and went on their way (Basically just continuing their lives and praying to their god in their traditional name)

Or they continued the war

[brittle slate]

They start wars all the time. Poison imperial troops. Rob space marines. And basically spend time every few thousand years playing a game of Texas with Terra.

[plush mason]

all of that just makes me like them even more tbh

[celest dome]

The most detrimental part of Mankind is the Ecclesiarchy

[plush mason]

true

[celest dome]

There is no other part that is worse for Mankid

[barren tapir]

It all went downward since its creation

[plush mason]

hell its holy book was literally written by Lorgar kekw

and ofc its origins are one of the imperial cult's most guarded secrets

[barren tapir]

But hey, if the Moirae cult was right then in due time the Cult Mechanicus and the ecclesiarchy will merge

[brittle slate]

I love the mechanicus

[celest dome]

Its the logical way it would go

[plush mason]

yeah which is why it wont happen

[brittle slate]

one of. Ecclesiarchy never got the pass.

[celest dome]

What pass

[brittle slate]

Of being detrimental.

At the same time- it’s the ecclesiarchy basically propping up the imperium at this point

With magic fingers

https://tenor.com/view/spirit-fingers-sparky-polastri-bring-it-on-gif-5983698

[arctic talon]

The exclesiarcht simultaneously is the glue holding together the imperium and a rotting gangrenous foot that needs to be amputated

[plush mason]

yup

[vital kernel]

Those who did not believe in him as Omnissiah rebelled during the HH. In 40k mechanicus there is a tiny fraction of priests who have heretical tendencies.

[vital kernel]

As far as I know the Romans didn't really give a big shit about what their conquered vassals believed in. They were just "oh so you worship Odin? He reminds me of Jupiter, must be the same guy with a different name."

[arctic talon]

There’s still some minor debates over the emperors as the omnissiah but no one dares to speak about it in depth lol

Mostly since

You know

You’ll die

[celest dome]

Which is mostly what the Emperor and the wider Imperium kinda does

[vital kernel]

blue hands typed this comment

[brittle slate]

Lol, cholo’s still yelling at the guy that cut him off a day later.

[plush mason]

kinda. so long as the local faith towed the line they didnt care it was only when said faith and its leaders questioned them that things got bloody

[brittle slate]

Odd scenario since the romans and Vikings never fought.

[vital kernel]

Faith is a poweful tool. It will motivate people to endure and make sacrifices otherwise inconcieveable. How many times did a crazed mob of zealots turn the tide in a pitched battle etc.

[brittle slate]

But sure, I too remember the tragic Incan Russian war of 1923

[vital kernel]

Odin isn't exactly exclusive to the Vikings greebly

[plush mason]

he kinda was. you must mean Wuodan who is like Odin but not

[brittle slate]

Uuoden? Wuodan?

[plush mason]

like how Zeus and Jupiter are the same god but not

[brittle slate]

Or horus.

[vital kernel]

Wotan was the central germanic version of Odin. It's pretty much semantics, since you'll notice romans didn't speak english either despite my exampliary quote being kept in said language.

[plush mason]

i mean. its more than semantics as Wotan and Odin have some key difference along with their similarities

[vital kernel]

It's pointless to argue about the idendities of certain pagan deities that existed and evolved over many centuries of history. A pagan follower of wotan in 500BC would have a different image of a pagan follower of wotan in 80AC

[brittle slate]

Lol, cholo, get some sleep tonight whatever you do.

(Cholo Furiously types up thesis paper)

[vital kernel]

Odin and Wotan never cohabitet the same pantheon. So yes they are for all intents and purposes the same deity viewed from different cultural points of view.

[brittle slate]

(Creates app to help him summarize wiki articles)

[vital kernel]

Go read your shareholder report Greebly but leave the discussion of lore to actual enthusiasts, not Tau shills

[brittle slate]

(Achieves Nobel peace prize)
(Returns to discord for video game: “SEE?!? I WAS RIGHT)

[plush mason]

wouldnt a "tau shill" also be invested in the lore? tau are part of the lore

[brittle slate]

Shhhhh- he really needs to hurt my feelings

[earnest snow]

Don't respond to him. He is just making himself look worse and worse lmao
Idk what went on between you two but this chat isn't for your own personal dramatics.

[vital kernel]

Greebly is just a cunt, that's all there is to it.

[brittle slate]

(Cholo continues to faction shame out of impotency)

(Goes on to use Nobel peace prize money to buy games workshop to cancel tau)

[plush mason]

you get money for winning the Nobel prize?

[vital kernel]

like 500k dollar or so

certainly not enough to buy GW

[plush mason]

here i was thinking it was purely ceremonial

[brittle slate]

They mostly give it to charity or something

[plush mason]

likely put to funding for more research. i hope so at least

[vital kernel]

it was originally meant to fund additional research back in the 19th century. But that kind of money doesn't cover actual costs of research for a long time. Now it's primarily meant as a gesture

[brittle slate]

So you HAVE been plotting! I knew it.

Alright alright I’m done.

Here’s hoping the mechanicus gets an honest to god nemesis with the LoV

It’s only a blurb, but the shoot on sight aspect of the LoV for prying mechanicus leaves a lot of interesting narrative opportunities

[celest dome]

I leave for 5 min and ya lot are already at each others throats
Behave

[brittle slate]

But but he called me a cunt!!! Reeeeee!!

We moved on. Or at least I’m trying to.

[vital kernel]

I hold no grudge against you greebles. Just try to move off your fucking pedestal once in a while.

[celest dome]

I said behave
Or the Warden will wake up
I do not care whom offended whom

[vital kernel]

It makes sense that they would be, but it's kind of stupid to have two quasi human factions being their nemesis.
If anything, Tau and Admech should become tech nemesis since they are basically the manifestation of everything the Admech hate.
AI? check
Xenos? check
Questioning Human domination? check
Inventing machines that offend the Machine God? check

Leagues are an obvious contender for nemesis spot since they hog all their STCs and are led by AI, but there is a lot more opportunity for a strained business partnership there than an all out nemesis struggle.

[brittle slate]

Imperium… chaos?

[vital kernel]

Chaos is more of a general opposition to the Imperium as a whole.

Despite being actual opposites, we barely ever see the Dark Mechanicum and the Admech interact.

[celest dome]

The Admech Nemesis are who ever got Techno babble they want

Or that they stole

[vital kernel]

Would be a far more compelling plot vehicle to have an active warzone between primarily Admech and Tau forces, which turns into a quagmire of material attrition for both sides. And in the course of that you could have the Earth Caste setting up their own form of Forge Worlds in Tau space.

[brittle slate]

I’m not saying it’s not feasible. Admech even left psychological trauma in the tau back during the Land’s Vision exploration.

But in terms of new lore the “shoot on sight” aspect of the LoV gives more

You might even have a new conspiracy on the side of the imperium purposefully sabotaging LoV and Imperial relations and awareness of each other

I think tau vs dark eldar is a better fit

Imperium vs chaos “mortals”
Admech vs LoV
Craftworld eldar vs chaos “daemons”
Dark eldar vs tau
Orks vs tyranids
Necrons vs hm… honestly tyranids

[vital kernel]

With Leagues being the new guys I expect there to be multiple lore blurbs how foolish admech fleets simply vanished in their territory to the super powerful stunties.
But there is potential, to be sure. Though with the caveat that there ought to be some genuine profit from the undertaking, like have that plot going for about a year and then introduce some heavy Skitarii infantry based on recovered league exoskeleton STCs or something.

Honestly Dark Eldar vs Chaos Space Marines would be interesting.

[arctic talon]

It’s a fun fight lore wise

Whenever it happens

[vital kernel]

Edge vs Edge is always a party

like, have Dark Eldar vs Night Lords

[brittle slate]

As individual armies or sub factions for sure

But faction wide? Edge vs edge just pushes one to being less so

Dark eldar would just ally with craftworlders and so on

[vital kernel]

They could duke it out on an Imperial Hive World. Like scavengers fighting over a corpse

[vital kernel]

would they really tho

[arctic talon]

Depends

The dark eldar really don’t give a fuck about the craftworld eldar usually

[brittle slate]

They do all the time.

It isn’t the high elf dark elf animosity from fantasy

[arctic talon]

If you’re gona bring up iyanden it’s because the dark eldar enjoy watching them suffer

They don’t fight each other like ever

But they really don’t help each other that much

[brittle slate]

If the dark city was under a full scale assault by chaos legions I can’t imagine the craftworlders not getting involved

That’d be giving full access to the webway on a platter

[vital kernel]

I mean GW could do something with the Ynnari, greebly can tell us if that merge paid off financially at all.

[brittle slate]

Clearly it didn’t. Nice one cholo.

[arctic talon]

I mean yeah if they face an existential threat they’ll help

But they usually don’t get involved with each other

[vital kernel]

What did I do?

[brittle slate]

Rig it that’s what we’re talking about

[arctic talon]

I thought we were talking about just in general

Nvm then lol

[brittle slate]

Lining up ideal nemesis face offs

Now that the eye of terror is no longer the thing it’s interesting to hypothesize the lineups

[mystic geyser]

Kingmaker mentions an interesting development. A chaos virus causing mechanicus and skitarrii to turn feral/traitor wholesale.

[brittle slate]

Ooo

What is kingmaker about?

Knights?

[celest dome]

There is also somewhat old mention with the Ruststalker being initially be made to hunt Servitors and other being on the surface of Mars

[signal bramble]

The imperium wants to engineer a new monarchy on a knight world that will cooperate with them without raising a fuss.

So they send in some assassins to make sure the preferred candidate becomes king.

[brittle slate]

Lol, seriously?

[signal bramble]

Yes really.

Basically the imperium ordered the knights to deploy which they found very disrespectful and they don’t appreciate being talked to that way.

The imperium considered taking the world by force but that was seen as being too costly so they decided to use a scalpel instead of a hammer.

So they send in a vindicare, a Callidus, and some other one which I can’t remember the name of but it’s a hacker assassin.

[mystic geyser]

Vanus

[signal bramble]

Yeah that one.

If the imperium had been nice to the knights and reminded them of their duty rather than ordering them about like mere servants they might have cooperated. But knight worlds are notoriously independent and this one (Dominion) see going to war for the imperium as something that should be done as a request that they will decide on.

[mystic geyser]

So yeah it is set in the era indomitus

And a big thing I wasn't aware of is Guilliman has stolen All the assassins to support Indomitus

So the few that are left are stretched super thin

[dusk patrol]

It’s more everyone is active

There’s a shitton to do

Half the Imperium fell

[plush mason]

so what role do the thunderbolts preform?

i assume interceptor or fighter?

[north lotus]

There’s a half of the imperium’s worth of wet work to pick up for.

[mystic geyser]

Heh. Jesper says in his interview that the game is in the 42nd millennium.
So stuff the intro video haha

[celest dome]

The Thunderbolt's primary combat role is as an air superiority fighter. It seeks out and engages enemy aircraft in dogfights or hunts enemy bombers to establish air superiority.

[plush mason]

ty

[plush mason]

the whole of 40k is in the 42nd millennium currently but most stuff still says 41st cause the title is 40k lol

40k literally means the year 40,000 and thus the 41st millennium

cause the last thing GW wants to do is change the francize name to warhammer 41k

[heavy raven]

im not well versed in 40k lore, but grey knights kill anyone that witnesses their operation or am i getting this wrong?

[mystic geyser]

In principle. Whether they still do it is unclear.

Or mind wipes

[dusk patrol]

There’s some lore excerpts on them not having the time or caring as much anymore

Unless they’re obviously corrupted

And even then, they didn’t always in the past

It generally depended on 1: Would the people involved know or see that these Astartes are different?

2: Is the event they saw them under something which might corrupt them?

[heavy raven]

oh okay thanks for the info guys, i thought they were complete dickheads until now

[vital kernel]

IIRC the Era Indomitus changed the modus operandi of several factions.
Guard Regiments who faced Daemons no longer get culled since that cat is out of the bag.

And Grey Knights have started operating more openly, with Roboute in charge.

[heavy raven]

i just got them portrayed waaay differently by people

[vital kernel]

Should remember that a lot of people hold a genuine grudge against Grey Knights ever since they got their Matt Ward codex some years back.

[storm jungle]

The GK still carry out sector wide purges.

but its done at the behest of Ordo Malleus

the entries do point out this is stupid but its the Imperium's job to cripple itself

[plush mason]

ye

[north lotus]

It’s understandable when it’s a situation like Armageddon and it’s close to Terra

[dusk patrol]

One man’s sector wide purge is another man’s freedom fight- wait

[north lotus]

Like a certain planet close to holy terra… which has a current war with orks

[earnest snow]

They're purgin' the sector to prepare it for the farmers

Gotta get food for the crusade somehow

[storm jungle]

Its not because the people they mindwiped are off to fight chaos next week

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/do-you-have-any-idea-how-little-that-narrows-it-down-blight-batman-beyond-funny-narrow-it-down-gif-25176406

[storm jungle]

the entire galaxy is literally on fire

chaos is rampant

As per Warzone Charadon the Ordo Malleus has uh

• Mindwiped a lot of skitarii legions

• Executed a lot of guardsman in the millions

• Mindwiped Marines/Sororitas

[earnest snow]

Thanks to our buddy ol' pal Abaddon, we have a lot more fun in the Galaxy :D!

[north lotus]

Here’s a hint, the space furries fought them over it.

[storm jungle]

etc etc

so yeah

the malleus is doing this for nothing

[dusk patrol]

I repeat my last statement again

[barren tapir]

This make no sense

[north lotus]

Here’s a hint. Green skinned margret thatcher

[earnest snow]

Idk about you, but every Ork looks like Margret Thatcher

[barren tapir]

Poor orks

[north lotus]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/9/9e/Ghazghkull2.png/revision/latest?cb=20140723001859

DELE- DESTR- KRUMP THIS NOW GIT

[arctic talon]

Mag Uruk thraka

[dusk patrol]

He don’t look like that anymore

[arctic talon]

^

He looks a lot cooler now

[earnest snow]

She shows her true form o_o

[earnest snow]

Upgraded his mega shoota I see I see

[undone zodiac]

This mongled kromp

[dusk patrol]

My man upgraded everything

[undone zodiac]

Ordered 2 squigs

[north lotus]

Considering how much she legitimately fixed in the British economy from the Callaghan case, it’s legitimately the power of ork energy

This was before her

James Callaghan anyone?

[north lotus]

Also he has 4 gats now

[arctic talon]

It has 16 shots lul

[dusk patrol]

Hey uh

Not a politics discord or channel

[north lotus]

Sorry, politics, I was joking about how ork economics are

[dusk patrol]

Ok well do it without irl politics then

[north lotus]

Much like the stock market

They believe it works….somehow it does

[dusk patrol]

And without the freshmen poli sci commentary

[arctic talon]

I think it’s funny the gorknaut has a gun with more shots then the stompa

[dusk patrol]

Shockingly, bigga is not always betta for Orks

[north lotus]

What about a morknaut?

[arctic talon]

Eh the Stompa’s gun is only like 6 less

[dusk patrol]

And it has you know

[arctic talon]

Morknaut doesn’t have a high volume of fire

[dusk patrol]

Everything else

[arctic talon]

It just hurts when it hits

Gorknaut barfs out dice

Stompa does both lul

[dusk patrol]

Lad unce tol me, itz not da soize which mattas

It’s ‘ow yoo yoose it

Course e’ wuz a git

[north lotus]

So the gorknaut plays shadowrun.

[arctic talon]

Yes

[earnest snow]

Before being reloaded? Otherwise I assume the 16 shots are bullets shaped like giant cans of beans. It splatters open and the squigs start charging in for a feastin'

[crisp heath]

Am I the only one who thinks the plural of "squig" should be "squig"

[plush mason]

english is weird when it comes to stuff like that

[plush mason]

i was wondering what the difference is ty

[rich vale]

squign't

[arctic talon]

Gameplay wise

[arctic talon]

Morknaut also has a lot more little tools

While the gorknaut is just

Covered in a bunch of guns ol

[north lotus]

So would it be a krumping of squigs rather than a group?

[arctic talon]

Prolly group

Krumping means beating the crap out of

Or killing

[shy flower]

cry havoc, and let slip the squig of war

[crisp heath]

I knew vaguely of squigs beforehand but my first real experience with them was in Space Marine so I hate them

[crisp heath]

A buncha

A buncha squigs

[plush mason]

the plural of squig is squigies

[north lotus]

I mean murder of crows is a thing

[arctic talon]

The orks don’t use krump outside of beating the hell out of or killing

As far as we know

Squigs are called packs iirc

Or hordes

[brittle slate]

Should be called a squiggle

[arctic talon]

Lol

[plush mason]

a squiggle of squigies

[north lotus]

A Squabble?

[brittle slate]

And for the record, I think a prime minister around in the 70’s constitutes as history not politics.

[brittle slate]

A Squabble is perfect

https://tenor.com/view/squig-warhammer-gif-25817930

[north lotus]

WHOZ A GOOD EXPLOSIVE BOY!

[brittle slate]

💋

[final solar]

A Squabble of Squigs

[brittle slate]

Canon.

[north lotus]

Send this to GW

[final solar]

Oh i didn’t see others said the same

[rose thorn]

i need to learn all the squigs i can for my gloomspite army

[crisp heath]

If in doubt, just call it a waagh. Orkz love a waagh.

[brittle slate]

Funny that squig means:

To weird out or disgust; to make (someone) feel uneasy and squeamish

[rose thorn]

yeah

[plush mason]

thats a squig. there is a squig for just about everything

[rose thorn]

sounds right

[rose thorn]

omg i forgot aboyt him, does he have table top rules?

[brittle slate]

I miss the days when we would al Waaaagh!! Together at games day.

[plush mason]

you can use him as a warboss iirc

but no special rules afaik

[crisp heath]

goff rockaz are the best orks and I will accept no argument

[plush mason]

good cause you aint getting any

[brittle slate]

…

…….

[rose thorn]

hey he does have rules!!

[brittle slate]

kinda lame

[brittle slate]

But then I kinda hate comedy

[rose thorn]

he is goffs only

[brittle slate]

I wish his rules involved actually playing music

[plush mason]

neat

[brittle slate]

Like off your phone or something

Back in the day there were all kinds of little rules that broke the fourth wall

[rose thorn]

he is just a cheap buff aura

[crisp heath]

It's always funny to me seeing what GW thinks a "goff" is. like, I know the batcave was in england but being goth is so americanized now that I just see any goff rocka and just think "oh, he's kind of punky"

[rose thorn]

jus tthrow him in a melee pit

[brittle slate]

Like actually painting your ork vehicles red let you go 1 inch faster

[crisp heath]

I wouldn't say that breaks the fourth wall, that's just how you show something goes fasta

[plush mason]

well isnt that how it works in the canon lore as well?

[brittle slate]

That’s what I mean

[crisp heath]

But yeah old orks were more fun than new orks

[arctic talon]

Yesnt

[crisp heath]

orks are still fun, love me an ork, but something got lost in the name of balance

[brittle slate]

A rule that makes you paint your models in a certain way to have an effect is breaking the fourth wall

[arctic talon]

Orks still feel pretty orky

The one thing they lost is green tide being super good

But Speed Freakz feel like actual speed freakz rn

Imo

[brittle slate]

9th in general is just a bad rule set

[arctic talon]

Super obnoxious, super fast

[rose thorn]

funny that orks have more unique builds then space mariens right now

[arctic talon]

And super dangerous

[brittle slate]

It’s because space marines all need to be generically good for sales

[crisp heath]

I'm not a big tabletop person and barely understand the rules, so keep in mind my opinion probably means less, but I don't get excited to play orks when I see new ork rules, and that's why I decided my first full army would be Guard

[arctic talon]

Honestly 9e is fine rules wise just way too many ways to stack AP and some questionable codexes

[arctic talon]

Except marines are terrible rn lol

Like

[brittle slate]

Generic*

[arctic talon]

They’re objectively one of the worst factions in the game

[rose thorn]

i like how AOS handles it, where every army has like 5 play styles lmao

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[brittle slate]

The entire 9th system is uninspired

[arctic talon]

AOS is what I see 10th being like

[brittle slate]

Without many interactions between models

[arctic talon]

Tbh

Mostly since AOS is a great system

Compared to 40k rn

Prolly some of the best tabletop war gaming rules for non military sim stuff

[rose thorn]

i REALlly hope so, i think we will see how 10th plays when space mariens 2.0 drops

[rose thorn]

100% agree

[arctic talon]

Imo I don’t think we’ll see space marines 2.0

But we will see their supliments for 10th

And they’ll be usable in 9th

[crisp heath]

GW just decided Space Marines should be the cheap starter army from what I've seen, I wouldn't mind if they suck because maybe then they'll focus on more interesting factions when no one wants to buy them

[arctic talon]

Eh Marines are still pretty intresting gameplay wise

[brittle slate]

The big secret of 40k tabletop is marines have always sucked when compared to alternative faction’s possibilities

[arctic talon]

They just have a book where most units are terrible lol

Which is how the marine book has always been

[rose thorn]

storm casts do that so much ebtter lmao

[brittle slate]

And boring

[arctic talon]

Yeah this lol

Everyone builds to kill marines

Since they’re the most popular army

[brittle slate]

Like fish of fury for tau was inspiring and entirely player made

[arctic talon]

So marines end up sucking because everyone figures out how to murderize them

[crisp heath]

Dude there's so many things you can do with nids, they're so cool, I only bought guardsmen as practice while I learn how to paint something this small. Nids are genuinely diverse and look super fun to play.

[brittle slate]

The balls you needed to pull it off

[rose thorn]

and everyoen has marines

[arctic talon]

Fish of fury is back in 9e sorta lol

Which is hilarious

[dusk patrol]

Until they get that one absurd combo occasionally

[arctic talon]

Also have you seen the abomination that is the genestealer bridge

[dusk patrol]

And suddenly everyone’s chapter is an Iron Hands successor

[arctic talon]

Iron hands in 8e

[dusk patrol]

With a ton of dreads

[brittle slate]

Meanwhile drop podding has always been the most boring tactic available. Probably because they make it impossible to fail

[arctic talon]

Aka hell

[brittle slate]

There’s no anxiety

[arctic talon]

Iron hands in 8e were horrifying but

[brittle slate]

Ugh

[arctic talon]

I knew an actual iron hands player

[rose thorn]

i really hope LOV isnt waht we should expect from 10th

[brittle slate]

The dark ages

[arctic talon]

So it was funny as fuck lol

When his army went from dogshit

To game breaking

[brittle slate]

It really is. That and super guard lol

[crisp heath]

So looking at the tabletop rules, as someone who has played and DMed DnD for years, some armies are super versatile and others are very limited. Space Marines look good for a lot of situations but if someone is metagaming I think xenos would work better for their versatility. Am I wrong in thinking that?

[arctic talon]

He’s been playing iron hands since 6th lol

[brittle slate]

Teleporting death squads of death

[rose thorn]

I hope its more like new guard, their new system is really really good

[arctic talon]

If you want a really strong army craftworld eldar tbh

[brittle slate]

More so now than ever

[arctic talon]

They’ve never been bad

On the tabletop

They’ve always been mediocre at worse

[brittle slate]

Mono-listing space marines is the only way to be competitive

[arctic talon]

GW Ironicially is really good at writing rules for eldar

[rose thorn]

i really like actual synergy the new guard have

[arctic talon]

New guard just have a ton of super underpriced stuff

[rose thorn]

and knights and GSC are purely synergy

[arctic talon]

Like sentinels lol

Sentinels are admech laser chickens part 2

Except even better

Since you can run 9 normal sentinels and then 9 scout sentinels

And then murderize everything

[crisp heath]

Yeah Space Marines are decent, honestly, but I think they might limit their player? I considered buying them because I could afford them out of pocket, but I honestly think it's better to save up for Guard for my Imperium army

[dusk patrol]

The real key is don’t meta chase

[brittle slate]

It’s not really synergy so much as: take this. Or don’t and not be winninger

[crisp heath]

After I have experience painting guard I'll move on to Tyranids, which is what I really want to play

[arctic talon]

Agree on this

Play what you want

Not what’s good

[brittle slate]

Agreed

[dusk patrol]

Like, the game sucks when you try to optimize

[arctic talon]

Bcs almost every faction has been broken

[brittle slate]

And fuck the haters.

[arctic talon]

At one point or another

[rose thorn]

oh yeah dont they have the combo from hell

[arctic talon]

So when it’s your turn

Have fun laughing

[brittle slate]

(Said Every GSC and Tau player)

[arctic talon]

Tau being broken as hell after enduring 8e

[inland sigil]

So I didnt quite understand, do we become Inquisitors at the end or just a normal guardsman again?

[arctic talon]

Was prolly cathartic for tau players lol

[brittle slate]

Eh.

[arctic talon]

We become members of their warband

We’re in grendyl’s warband

[crisp heath]

idk I'm a min-maxer in DnD, not because I want to ruin anyone elses fun but just because I don't know why anyone would want to play a character with a 10 in con. I'd be so scared to die all the time.

[brittle slate]

I run the tau discord and it lasted a month. For our community I’d say we don’t like being broken

And dealing with more hate from the general community

[inland sigil]

ah, so were not casual soldiers but in the pockets off the Inquisiton now.
Thats so cool!

[arctic talon]

Yeah because everyone has a hate boner for tau

For some reason

I don’t get it

They’re just a gun line army

[brittle slate]

Neither do I

[arctic talon]

Like ???

[brittle slate]

And mechanicus do it better

[arctic talon]

They’re not more annoying then guard

[brittle slate]

So do imperial fists

[arctic talon]

Guard is

Absurd rn

[rose thorn]

thats the first time ive seen tau and GSC mentioned in the same space

[crisp heath]

Tau are cool imo, I get memes but in terms of both lore and what my limited understanding of tabletop allows for they're pretty good

[arctic talon]

Kasrkin and sentinels are criminally underpriced

[brittle slate]

There’s a lot of crossover

[dusk patrol]

Tbh everyone jumps on the hate train for whatever is broken rn

[rose thorn]

what happened

[arctic talon]

Also true

If your army is good

You will be hated on

[dusk patrol]

People suddenly hated Iron Hands players when they became a thing briefly

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[unique berry]

Tf

[arctic talon]

There’s nothing in 40k like peace cleric

[dusk patrol]

Before that half the fanbase probably didn’t know IHs were a faction

[rose thorn]

i argue LOV and flamer spam deserves it atm, but besides that 9th si hell lmao

[arctic talon]

Aka hell

9th is fine overall balance wise

Compared to shit like 5e and 7e

[crisp heath]

Anyway my DnD strategy is highest roll main ability, next con, third dex, and I think that tells you everything about how I approach tabletop, but not because I'm metagaming too much, I just want to enjoy a game where I don't feel like a stiff breeze could kill me

[dusk patrol]

There’s always one annoying ass comp which deserves it tbh

[crisp heath]

I do metagame, but I'm not someone who pretends they know every rule by heart, and I can back off if it means other players are having less fun than me

[brittle slate]

But better systems

[arctic talon]

I would not call 7e a better system

Then 9e personally

6e sure

[brittle slate]

Like there was abuse but most communities drove our power gamers

[arctic talon]

But absolutely not 7e imo

[brittle slate]

9th is made for tourney players (kinda)

[crisp heath]

Oh god I still barely know 8e

[arctic talon]

Honestly 8e was my favorite edition

[brittle slate]

Except an army that’s released is auto winning for 3 months

[arctic talon]

So

Eh

[brittle slate]

Did they get rid of armor values by then?

[arctic talon]

I fucking hate 7e with a burning passion tho

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[brittle slate]

Nah then

[arctic talon]

It was the first edition to do that

[crisp heath]

I assume once I actually start playing it will be easier, because that's every system, but this is honestly the first time I've seen anyone discuss 7e 40k

[brittle slate]

Getting rid of armor values derped vehicles

[arctic talon]

Everyone wants to forget 7e lol

[crisp heath]

Do people still play older editions like they do in DnD?

[arctic talon]

So no one likes talking about it

[brittle slate]

All the time

That’s why 30k came back

[arctic talon]

Depends

7e is the big one

Tbh

With 30k

[rose thorn]

i have no clue how 40k balancing is so fucked, i just know that is aint good right now lmao

[brittle slate]

It’s basically 7th

[arctic talon]

Which uses a modified version

Of 7e

[brittle slate]

They don’t play test

[arctic talon]

If we were to go back to older rules

[brittle slate]

I don’t care what people think

[rose thorn]

i like aos table top alot more lmao

[arctic talon]

HH is the best

[brittle slate]

7th was then massive tumblefuck of pay to win

[crisp heath]

So should I learn 7e if I want to play with others? I learned 3.5 for DnD because so many people liked it, and honestly it's my favorite edition now. What edition should I learn?

[brittle slate]

Buy 3 riptides? Win.

[brittle slate]

Oh, no

[rose thorn]

OH YEah a podcast i listened to talked about how gw talks to alot of places like goon hammer about balancing besides testing themself.

[brittle slate]

Tabletop community is different

[arctic talon]

God no lol

[brittle slate]

You have to stay up to date even if the rule system blows

[arctic talon]

Most people don’t play actual 7e

[brittle slate]

And your army is sharted

[arctic talon]

They use Horus heresy rules

Which is 7e but not terrible

[brittle slate]

Have they adapted the other armies?

[north lotus]

I get them mixed up with perterabo’s bitchboys

[arctic talon]

No but there’s some fan stuff to adapt eldar to HH rules

And some other factions

[brittle slate]

Yeah. Won’t look at it until they do Tau then.

[crisp heath]

ach this seems like a much more involved tabletop game, I'll play alone for a bit (because the guardsmen are already in the mail) and if I don't like it they can just be shelf pieces

[brittle slate]

And GSC

Which would be wild in 30k

[rose thorn]

god gsc is so cool

[arctic talon]

If I were to rate GW game systems it would be AoS > Kill team = war cry > HH > 40k

[rose thorn]

they have the coolest play style

[arctic talon]

And if you ask me where fantasy goes

[brittle slate]

Play blackstone*

[arctic talon]

It goes in the trash

[rose thorn]

did you mean; underworld

[brittle slate]

Pretty sure I said blackstone

[north lotus]

I’m interested in the insmouth knock offs, tell me more.

[arctic talon]

Anyone who says fantasy rules wise was good is wrong and delusional and prolly has a few hundred dollars worth of line troops they hated painting

And like a single large mini

[rose thorn]

did you mean; cursed city

[rose thorn]

oka y so the main downside to playing GSC is that it requires insane amounts of strategy

[brittle slate]

That’s not a downside

[arctic talon]

If you play gsc your brain is prolly massive lol

[crisp heath]

I like the way fantasy models look, but I never looked into the rules because I didn't have an interest in playing those armies

[arctic talon]

That army is complex as hell

[brittle slate]

40k used to be a tactical game

[arctic talon]

If you liked the big ones I have some bad news lol

[rose thorn]

okay good

[brittle slate]

Now it’s more like thinking checkers is 4d chess

[crisp heath]

no, I liked the swarms of tiny ones

[arctic talon]

Alright

That’s good then

[rose thorn]

basically you are playing exactly how they play in lore lmao

[arctic talon]

Bcs you’re gona need a few hundred dollars of em lol

If you wana play fantasy

[rose thorn]

oh YEAH GSC are insanely expansive

expensive*

[arctic talon]

GSC have a good Combat patrol

Tbf

[crisp heath]

AoS has some lore I liked, like, um, is it called night haunt? I don't know the lore by heart. The army of ghosts.

[arctic talon]

It’ll cut your costs

[arctic talon]

Yeah night haunts

[rose thorn]

yeah i was gonna say that

[crisp heath]

Yeah I really liked the Night Haunt. Is AoS better to get into than fantasy?

[rose thorn]

its one of those; buy it twice b ox sets so you will be set for the basic units

[rose thorn]

very

[arctic talon]

Right now yeah fantasy is dead as fuck

Fantasy had almost no new players

[rose thorn]

play AOS

[arctic talon]

Bcs the barrier to entry was super expensive

[rose thorn]

and old worlds isnt in existance yet

[arctic talon]

If you wanted an army it’s a few hundred dollars of line troops at least

And god forbid you played skaven

Since you’ll spend like 500$+ on skaven slaves and clan rats alone

[crisp heath]

I mean, not as tabletop specifically, just in general. Lore, I know AoS is new so no real videogames, but at least trailers that look as cool as Horus Heresy. Basically, is it the generally preferable experience?

[rose thorn]

the night haunt box is super good

[arctic talon]

AoS is new so lore wise it’s a bit light

Most of the big lore stuff is either in the RPG books

[rose thorn]

OH AOS LORE IS GREAT

[arctic talon]

Or the codexes

But the lore that does exist is solid imo

[crisp heath]

What I've seen from AoS recently has been good in terms of lore, but I haven't dove into it yet

[brittle slate]

I honestly don’t think it’ll ever latch on

[arctic talon]

The necroquake

Lul

[brittle slate]

For the same reason why magic the gathering lore is kind of irrelevant

[arctic talon]

Is the last big thing to happen

[rose thorn]

the lore is always fun, and every faction is more grey then evil in a good way

[arctic talon]

Yeah def

Yeah AoS factions are a lot less evil

[brittle slate]

Fantasy used to be high drama

[crisp heath]

AoS put me off because I was literally just starting to get into skaven as the Endtimes happened lol

[arctic talon]

Then their 40k counterparts

[crisp heath]

But I never dove deep into either setting

[arctic talon]

Except for the skaven

[brittle slate]

AoS is like “everyone has something legit to bring to the table”

[arctic talon]

The skaven are evil as hell

[brittle slate]

They killed the world.

[rose thorn]

but htey are really cool, the godo factions are pretty fucking evil, and evil factions are alot better on second glance

[crisp heath]

yes, this is good

[arctic talon]

Also despite all the big super factions

[crisp heath]

Remember, I'm only painting guard because I want practice for my tyranids

[arctic talon]

Ironicially order fights each other

More then Chaos lol

[rose thorn]

oop wrong message lmao

[north lotus]

FALSE-FALSE LIE-SLANDER!

[arctic talon]

Like Order fights each other more often then they fight chaos

Which is hilarious

[rose thorn]

yeah lmao

[crisp heath]

I want an illiterate ratman to nuke me into oblivion and then eat my irradiated body. Is that too much to ask?

[rose thorn]

the only order faction that dont fight would be storm casts and cities

[arctic talon]

Cities don’t fight Lumineth either

[rose thorn]

but on tbale top you take storm casts in every city army

[crisp heath]

I also like, uh, whatever the Chinese faction is. I really like Imperial China aesthetics, but the other human factions bore me.

[rose thorn]

have you read the hallow king?

[brittle slate]

There are also no stakes

[arctic talon]

Cathay was never playable on the tabletop 💀

[brittle slate]

And… I just couldn’t care less about the gold guys

[arctic talon]

They got wiped out lore wise lul

[brittle slate]

Who can be literally anyone

[rose thorn]

if cities have anything that lumenth want they literally dont care about them

[crisp heath]

Oof, then the only thing I like about fantasy are ogres, skaven, and tomb lords

[arctic talon]

Stormcasts aren’t even the faction GW pushes for order tbh

It’s cities of sigmar/Lumineth now

[rose thorn]

oh settlers gain

[brittle slate]

McNeill is rumored to be working on the new fantasy stuff

And I just can’t fucking wait

[rose thorn]

yeah honeslty living in settler's gain is really fucking bad

[arctic talon]

Nice

Stuff on the time of 3 kings is fun

[crisp heath]

ngl I think the human factions in fantasy are boring, but the other races all stand out to me in ways some of the 40k xenos don't.

[rose thorn]

if you dont do exactly what they say, they will brain wahs you

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[crisp heath]

I know Tomb Lords are playable, are Ogres?

[brittle slate]

I’d slap you with bretonnia if I could

[arctic talon]

Yes

[arctic talon]

Bretonnia more like bad

[brittle slate]

Get this

[arctic talon]

Gottem

[crisp heath]

Then I might get into fantasy, but it might be a while