40k-lore-chat

[celest dome]

If with another god

[meager zinc]

Im talkin khorne specifically tho

Yeah i could see tzeetnch not caring if your blind or armless

[celest dome]

If you can rack up some kills why not

As long as blood flow

[meager zinc]

True

[celest dome]

But it doesn't mean that they will look at you more kindly than how they would look at other mortal

For them, a mortal is a mortal and that's it

[meager zinc]

I mean yeah all im saying is that Nurgle welcomes more unique body shapes than most is all

As long as you can be filled with pus. I think you can get further in his retinue than the other gods

Like if i was paralyzed from the neck down? Cant talk? Id prolly take my luck with nurgle

Who knows i might get a giant tentacle or horn out of it. Drag my pus filled body around

Put me in coach

[dusk patrol]

Khorne doesn’t care who you are as long as you can kill shit

And make the blood flow

He’s empowered some sad sacks in his time

[meager zinc]

See so if im paralyzed from the neck down? Id be coming in at a loss if i joined khorne

[celest dome]

Why so

Khorne could give you armour that let you move or something

[meager zinc]

You dont think id need to prove myself? Or id just get slaughtered by stronger follower?

[celest dome]

Or transmute your body into metal with molten metal as blood

Even with Nurgle you'd have to prove yourself

Other wise you end up as a Poxwalker and it's over for you

[meager zinc]

I mean i didnt think of that

[north lotus]

I’m talking the mechanical differences between these

[meager zinc]

I do appreciate you keeping the door open for all the hadicapped khornate followers lol

I am a chaos undivided fan at heart

[celest dome]

You're welcome, Chaos is ever inclusive, just we are a meritocracy

[north lotus]

fucking centrist cuck

[meager zinc]

Oh here we go (the eternal game starts up again)

[north lotus]

You should let a extreme obsession with a niche thing control you like a normal chaos follower

[north lotus]

Ha!

[signal bramble]

"all im saying is all 4 gods have valid points and you shouldnt just write them off because of a few bad demons"

[north lotus]

all I’m saying is that you don’t get as an iconic cry as a khornate or slaanesh follower

[celest dome]

And again, there are plenty of smaller gods, who might fit more to your particular brand of Chaos

[meager zinc]

Tzeentch follower leans back "so your really a chaos centrist pussy huh??"

[north lotus]

Daily reminder, wizards need their daily swirlies

How else do you develop the necessary paranoia for a follower of the changer of ways

[meager zinc]

HAAHAH YAAAAHHH SWIRLY TIMMEEEE - khorne bezerker

[brittle slate]

I wish Kelly had seen this pic… instead typhus has never been anywhere near tau space.

But I don’t like thinking the gods have a proactive opinion in basically anything going on on the mortal level

The chaos gods should be abstract concepts that reward mortals for doing the “right” thing

Perfect example is the horus heresy where daemons and changes just start happening growing in influence until Terra where chaotic abilities and mutations are now all out in the open

But the gods themselves are still vague

[meager zinc]

How do you know thats tyhpus? Could be a daemon prince that happened to like typhuses look

[brittle slate]

… 🥱

[crisp heath]

how does the loner pskyer know what fascism is in the 41st millenium? wouldn't the term have gone extinct like other 20th century terran ideologies? 🤔

[dusk patrol]

Artistic liberties by FS tbh

[barren tapir]

We should remember that low gothic is portrayed as english for us to understand, so in setting they could be using another word to indicate totalitarianism...
If we have to go with IRL we already see a word (fascism) being twisted and used to indicate something that isn't exactly what it was meant to indicate (anglos use of the word fascism)

[celest dome]

Why do they say Gun

Why do they say Space, Marine, law...

They aren't even speaking english

[meager zinc]

Hes talking about imperial fashion. Fascism.

[dusk patrol]

Tfw everyone isn’t speaking in bastardized space Latin

[meager zinc]

But yeah that looks like a weird writers slip up

Something like "unshakable/blind zeal within" would have worked better

[brittle slate]

The word democracy exists. As does anarchy. Republic, oligarchy, technocracy and so on. Fascism is there on purpose (and it was abnett that is credited lead writer).

[arctic talon]

Also fascism can still be a thing contrasted against democracy on some worlds

[arctic talon]

Since not all worlds are facist in 40k

[brittle slate]

Right

Heck most of them are some kind of medieval

I think people just get tense when applicable real world scenarios exist in their space hobby

Remember, folks, back in the 1980’s they still thought they had beaten the nazis.

[arctic talon]

[brittle slate]

[arctic talon]

Yeah a lot of imperial worlds are feudal as hell

Or some variation of it

Lots of noble houses

[brittle slate]

It’s more like rome in my opinion. Rome and idealized medieval England/France

[celest dome]

Some world are somewhat similar to the world of today, just most people live in Mega cities like Tokio, and they have to send stuff to space every X years

[arctic talon]

Yeah industrial worlds are like earth

But more advanced

And a lot more centralized

[upbeat dagger]

one last ttg question- is Dark Heresy 2e only one book? ik 1e is split up quite a bit

[fallen marsh]

DH 2.0 has few more books.

Enemy series

[brittle slate]

ive never seen a world described as the modern world. i feel like that's just something that's said

[fallen marsh]

and some adventures

[upbeat dagger]

but if i dont plan on using a premade adventure, what books do i need

[fallen marsh]

Enemy Without, Enemy Within and Enemy Beyond

Plus Core rulebook of course

[upbeat dagger]

aight sweet

is there like, a DMG?

[fallen marsh]

DMG?

[rose thorn]

Tieflings <3

[upbeat dagger]

dungeon master's guide

[upbeat dagger]

aay

[arctic talon]

It’s mentioned in one of the uhhh I think Last chancer books

[rose thorn]

yeaAaaAa

[arctic talon]

Most popular species in dnd

[fallen marsh]

Aaaaa. Then no.

[arctic talon]

They’re cool

So many dif variations lol

[rose thorn]

WAIT this is the 40k chat? I thgouht this was a different discord lmao

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Lol

[opal void]

alrighty question for the lore guys, the newer dreadnaught models are they primaris marines already put into dreadnoughts or is it s one size fits all coffin and they've transferred marines already encased over to the new model?

[arctic talon]

Normal marines can go in them but primaris usually are the ones in the new dreads

Mostly due to the fact they cause neural burnout

[opal void]

damn they took casualties fast

[arctic talon]

Tbf

They are in a crusade lol

[opal void]

fair

[signal bramble]

D&D talk!? Bunch of nerds in my 40k discord.

[arctic talon]

Those tend to cause some pretty bad casualties

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-alert-bumper-adam-devine-pitch-perfect-lame-gif-17474980

[arctic talon]

I will bludgeon you with the player hand book

[opal void]

im wondering if i painted a primaris army as one legion could i use another doctrine

like can i paint primaris as iron warriors but use iron hands doctrine

[arctic talon]

You can use whatever you want paint wise

[opal void]

sweet

cause iron hands are dumb tbh

[signal bramble]

Some tournaments won’t allow that.

[arctic talon]

Some tournaments will require like if your marines are painted like ultramarines please play them as ultramarines

But iron warriors don’t have loyalist rules

In 40k

So you can do whatever the hell you want

You can paint your marines xyz successor and play them as dark angels one day

[opal void]

iron warriors are the one legion i wish didnt go traitor

[arctic talon]

And then ultramarines at a dif tournament

[signal bramble]

Mine are the EC. Loyalist EC we’re cool.

[opal void]

i'll be honest i didnt like the fulgrim book

[arctic talon]

Honestly sons of the phoenix have the same asthetic

As emperors children

But they’re def dorns kids

Despite all the memes about their scheme and name

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/26/Sons_Phoenix_Intercessor.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20181220012208

[opal void]

i just like the iron warriors

theyre imperial fists but good at what they do

[celest dome]

Lol

As if

[opal void]

the imperial fists have been nearly wiped out 3 times over

[arctic talon]

So have the blood angels lol

[opal void]

blood angels look cooler tho

[arctic talon]

They were down to 50 scouts at one point lul

[celest dome]

The Son of Dorn do what they were created for, protect humanity

[opal void]

nah imperial fists were down to like 5 at one point werent they

[arctic talon]

The imperial fists go nearly extinct so often because they’re way too stubborn lol

[celest dome]

Iron Warrior are betrayer

[arctic talon]

For their own good

[signal bramble]

Which one?

[opal void]

fulgrim

[signal bramble]

Ah. I read palatine Phoenix and thought it was pretty good.

[opal void]

the actual story for their fall was a bit boring and kinda dumb

tbh most of the traitors reason for turning traitor are dumb

just super small petty reasons on the most part

[dusk patrol]

The Imperial Fists actually got wiped out during the War of the Beast

To the man

Had to be remade from their successors

[signal bramble]

Man I hate that storyline.

War of the beast is, in my opinion, the worst bit of lore so far.

[topaz warren]

Nurgle best CG and you cannot change my mind.

Tzeentch is a close second.

[opal void]

Khorne is cool

[dusk patrol]

War of the Beast is pretty fucking bad yeah

Some neat ideas, horribly squandered and executed terribly

[opal void]

Was the War of the best the reason the salamanders Primarch is gone

[signal bramble]

Im a Slaanesh fan myself. Started painting Slaanesh daemons until I got the Votann box. Though now I’ve stopped painting /modeling. Been too focused on Darktide.

[dusk patrol]

No but he did leave again after

Or more, got blown up and wasn’t seen again

But he didn’t wanna show up again anyways

[barren tapir]

There is only one way to bring him back... Lets nuke the planet he swore to always defend

[dusk patrol]

They definitely are

[celest dome]

Mate, I'm a heretic
Not even need one to be know one

[dusk patrol]

Still are even

To eachother mostly these days

[unique berry]

What happend in the war again besides Fists saying nearly good bye

[dusk patrol]

Uh a lot

It’s kinda hard to narrow down, but a lot of stupid shit

It’s just terribly written too

Everyone is a caricature

If you’re not supposed to like them they’re big stupid coward dumb dumbs

[arctic talon]

Assassins > Primeork > primarch

[dusk patrol]

If your supposed to then they’re brilliant badass wise dudes

[arctic talon]

Worst books ever

[dusk patrol]

Also yeah at the end of the books they kill the big bads off screen

With like, small Deathwatch fire teams

After having them be almost impossible for a primarch to take on

And be unstoppable the whole series

You could tell they just wanted to end it and it just got worse and worse

[unique berry]

I like me some Deathwatch but damn thats stupid as hell

[opal void]

I want him back, best Primarch

[signal bramble]

There are ork primarchs. Yes really.

[unique berry]

Ah yes i remember them

[signal bramble]

The high lords send a civilian army at the Orks and the Orks kill them by using their psykers to drop a mountain on them.

[floral minnow]

Yo so question, the Inquisition gets super horny killing anybody that knows about Chaos right?

[dusk patrol]

Not as much these days

And that only goes for low level people

And it depends

Basically it’s a pretty reductive overly broad statement

The Inquisition can’t even agreed on the time

[floral minnow]

I was just thinking how wild it would be to be a guardsman whose regiment got shit on but you survived. Go on leave before being reintegrated into another IG unit and being like, yeah so there were demons and shit.

Then the whole city gets glassed because the Inquisition is like, you saw wot m8

[dusk patrol]

Not really how it works

At worst they’d probably just kill you

Maybe the regiment or elements of it, but mostly they care if you’re exposed to Chaos

[mystic geyser]

Somewhat inconsistent

Like, sabbat crusade, they've definitely seen daemons, but haven't been purges, because the crusade it still going and it wouldn't make sense.

But if it was a civilian? Might not be so lucky

[dusk patrol]

Like I said, typically they care more of it’s a large chaos event which would corrupt a bunch of people

Which is why normally regiments who fight with the GKs are killed

Or were at least

Because if the GKs are called in, shits gone to hell

Literally

But it all depends

Like always

[brittle slate]

hence why more than 12 years would have been the better choice

[dusk patrol]

They had hundreds of thousands to start with, the initial trial by fire still happened and is still happening to some extent

[brittle slate]

you gotta remember that imperial society is also conditioned to repress their own experiences

their faith system is like the immune system of their society

[dusk patrol]

Also it’s not like they’re completely unaware of Chaos or daemons.

It’s just seeing them and seeing the actual effects is pretty different from the general boogeyman they hear of in mythology.

[brittle slate]

right. just think of it as medieval peasants and their opinions on the devil/god

you talk too much about devils and you might get burnt as a witch by your own neighbors

[unique berry]

Inquisition = good guys.

[dusk patrol]

Not sure I would go that far

[rose thorn]

We all know the real good guys are the genestealer cults

[mystic geyser]

True freedom fighters

[rose thorn]

Children of the true emperor

[barren tapir]

We all know the true good guys are the humans that hide or escape the imperium

[dusk patrol]

The good guys are the feet that I’m gonna put up all your ass’s

[barren tapir]

So just one 😔

Low numbers in this grimdark future

[opal void]

you know theyre the bad guys when the space furries stand against them

[unique berry]

True but I have a thing for Radical factions in Fantasy and SciFi and i dont even know why

[crisp heath]

GKs are just stupid in general though, i wouldn't apply reason to any situation in which they appear

Exorcists do it better

[echo vault]

Are the leagues like the kronus hegemony based on the planet from dawn of war dark crusade

Also isn't the naming of some of the squat units being based on the planet of the arch traitor of the heresy sussy

[placid minnow]

random question, but would anyone be interested in reading something i wrote for the upcoming black library submission (its not done, but just curious what others may think of it so far), im sure its not lore accurate and i have thick skin so any/all criticism is fine

also i wasnt really sure whether to ask here or in book club

[crisp heath]

I don't think Cthonian in squats is supposed to refer to the planet, Chtonian is from a Greek word that means "lives underground"

[echo vault]

Cthonia was basically humans trying to be like the leagues but failing

[crisp heath]

Compare to the idea that space wolves aren't really obsessed with wolves, they just have more canine animals that all get translated as "wolf" in gothic

[echo vault]

Do you think the wolf servo arm can also double as a speaker

A sub woofer

[crisp heath]

Honestly GW needs to bring back the punk/metal band thing. I would love sub-wolfers

[plush mason]

im sorry what?

[meager zinc]

im sorry but i think the space wolves are one of the cringiest "main" chapters

[crisp heath]

Space Wolves are dumb as shit and that is where their true power lies

[echo vault]

I wish 40k space wolves also used their 30k aesthetic I love their units like deathsworn or varangyr

Hi doggy

[crisp heath]

If you think I like Space Wolves because they're "good", you do not understand the artistry of sheer moronic keyboard smashing

[meager zinc]

but its like are their wolves trained like space marines?

[crisp heath]

I like the new look a bit better, but only because I think Space Wolves should have something "viking" as soon as you look like it

[crisp heath]

Thunderwolves (probably) used to be human, so they're basically the wolf equivalent of a Space Marine

[echo vault]

People say space wolves are the frat legion but before leman russ they were actually so shitty and legitimately disloyal they had a type of consul that was a commissar

[meager zinc]

im just confused how their pet wolves survive in battle

[echo vault]

Consul-Opsequiari, space marine commissars

[crisp heath]

Yeah if you want to lean into the "Imperium good guy" thing Russ actually made them a lot better in that regard, most chapters were absolute monsters before their daddy came home though

But Russ is literally genetically incapable of being disloyal which is... hm.

[echo vault]

Blood angels used the consul opa Gangnam style to find and kill any Marines that fell to the red thirst

[crisp heath]

I guess I could say I like the 40k space wolves over 30k just because like, being a himbo with nothing but good in your heart and an obsession with wolves is just fun.

[echo vault]

So sadly blood angels did have gestapo marines

Technically

[crisp heath]

Thunder Wolves are not in any way Terran wolves. They are in a lot of lore, but newer lore strongly suggests they have space-wolf geneseed and used to be human, like the Wulfen, so imagine a Direwolf from GoT with Astartes gene-seed

I'm going to stop saying "probably" since it's pretty much certain at this point. Thunder Wolves are Astartes who degenerated into wolf form and never became part of the chapter.

[echo vault]

Isn't there a suspected chaos space wolves warband

Like I know the legend of the 13th great company was that they all became wulfen but there's also that

[crisp heath]

Ah, I don't know about that. I know they have a successor now but usually they just devolve into wulfen if they can't participate in the rituals of the main chapter

[echo vault]

They own a fellblade

They're the "Skyrar's Dark Wolves

Their emblem is space wolves with long tongue

[crisp heath]

Oh I do know about Wolf Brothers but they didn't actually really form into their own warband

They were just traitors who attacked the Space Wolves iirc

[echo vault]

Licky

[crisp heath]

I did notice that for the past few years GW has been forcing the "Vikings" TV show ideas into the story, which is an issue for me but I'm a huge Viking Age nerd so ig it wouldn't bother most people

[brittle slate]

This

[brittle slate]

Their wolves are space marines

[crisp heath]

Idk I've just accepted that Vikings aren't something that adapt well to Sci-Fi, even though one of my favorite sci-fi novels is viking themed

[brittle slate]

Space wolves just have a lot of garbage in the system

When they got hover sleighs I think it was time out them down.

[dusk patrol]

Because they can do this

[crisp heath]

I LOVE THE WOLF SLEIGH

[brittle slate]

But sure enough they then went “ice power” themed

[dusk patrol]

And they're fast as fuck, and their hides and fur is tough as hell.

Fenris shit is built different.

[crisp heath]

But yeah I think GW in general doesn't know what it wants to do with Space Wolves even though their motif should be fairly easy to work

[dusk patrol]

And they're the apex predators of a very tough block

[crisp heath]

"Vikings with a wolf totem" should be enough and you don't need to bring it in a bunch of conflicting directions

[dusk patrol]

Unfortunately they've given the Leagues the space viking shit now it seems.

Except for the boring generic sci-fi look they mostly have.

[crisp heath]

Yeah so, I'm going to make a brief mention of religion here, but only because it is relevant to the game

I am a religious polytheist and I will never get into leagues of Votann for that reason, because it does sit with me wrong solely because I see dwarves as "evil spirits" and I really don't like connecting culture or Gods to those spirits

[dusk patrol]

Idk what you want us to do about that

Peter Dinklage is probably sad though

[barren tapir]

Using the eye of the ancestor on Strawberry tea right now

[crisp heath]

Oh no, I'm just having a little complain. I hope Space Wolves keep their norse schtick, and if it goes to the Leagues instead I won't be into it. It was a personal complaint, not a general one.

[undone zodiac]

If they werent put that deep into wolf theme

At least in naming

[dusk patrol]

Well I don't like LoV currently cause they're boring as hell to me and read like OC

And are super underbaked

[crisp heath]

Yeah GW went way too hard on the wolf thing but I think they realized it and tried to justify it later ("oh it's all fenrisian words that just get translated as wolf") but there was a lot going on with SW that could have been handled better

[undone zodiac]

At least lukas the trickster didnt suffer from wolf surname

[crisp heath]

Basically, I'd like them more viking, less wolf.

[undone zodiac]

Imagine if ultramarines had ultra in every possible thing

Ultra terminators

Marneus ultrar

[plush mason]

that TS is now a chew toy. what a way to go

[crisp heath]

ultrabrother, we must see the ultrapriest on command of the ultralord

[plush mason]

its a small miracle they dont tbch

[tacit estuary]

Lore question I just thought of:

How come Yarrick never got in trouble for using the ork power klaw? That's xeno tech, son

[harsh dragon]

Maybe it was a looted example of something that had once been imperial

[crisp heath]

Commissars seem to be the Guard equivalent of Rogue Traders or Inquisitors. That is, they don't seem to be bound by the normal rules of the Imperium and are allowed to do things that might be a little heretical if it's in humanity's best interest

Commissars absolutely do not follow the normal rules of the Guard, and that's by design, and with the way some Commissars act in canon I wouldn't be surprised if they're outside the normal rules of the Imperium

[dusk patrol]

The circumstances he did it under were pretty special too

Yarrick was kinda his own deal

He had a lot more authority than his rank actually technically gave him

[tacit estuary]

I wonder if punishing him might also have caused a mutiny

[undone zodiac]

Probably logic of "orks probably stole it parts from imperials so its inherently our tech"

[meager zinc]

Wait so the jokes about the space wolves having actual furries in their ranks are true???

[crisp heath]

I mean if you want to call "being cursed to live a life where you're more powerful but less capable than a human" being a "furry" then yes

Becoming a Thunder Wolf is what happens if you recieve the gene-seed but fail to remain sane long enough to become a full Space Wolf, but the Space Wolves have a ritual that stops this transformation, and if anyone falls to it after this ritual they become Wulven instead

[meager zinc]

Ok. But is "turning from a man into a wolf" an action that is supported by the Codex Astartes?

Like i mean ballpark

[unique berry]

Fuck the Codex

[meager zinc]

Whoa

[arctic talon]

Prolly lol

[crisp heath]

It absolutely is not lol

[arctic talon]

It’s a byproduct of gene seed implementation

[crisp heath]

The space wolves hide the existence of wulven and also the origin of thunder wolves from the rest of the Imperium

[arctic talon]

Wulfen are sorta a known thing now

By very few people but more then just the wolves now

[crisp heath]

I mean yeah, at this point the 13th company is back, but it's supposed to be secret

[arctic talon]

Ye

[meager zinc]

Ok so this is just a "we all know, but it works so no ones gonna make a stink about it" situation

[plush mason]

the space wolves are a non codex compliant chapter so they wouldnt care ether way

[arctic talon]

Besides it’s the same issue as the blood angels weird mutants

It’s due to gene seed

[plush mason]

the damn thing is just toilet paper to them kekw

[arctic talon]

Messing up

Or rather in the space wolves case

It’s bcs they’re using fenrisians

Who already had a similar wolf hybridization thing going on

So it doesn’t work out great with the canis helix sometimes lol

[meager zinc]

Wait so is the codex astartes a rulebook or like a guide if you need it?

[arctic talon]

It’s supposed to be a basic outline

On how to run things

[plush mason]

yeah

[arctic talon]

Some chapters uh

Follow it way too strictly

[plush mason]

yeah

[arctic talon]

hammers of dorn

And other chapters don’t really use it

[crisp heath]

Space Wolves are... technically codex complaint? They have a special exception made for them since they can't produce successors

[arctic talon]

Aside from some basic stuff

[plush mason]

the irony of that name is not lost on me lol

[meager zinc]

Okay so those rulebooks they give you at college dorms no one follows.

[arctic talon]

Nah

[crisp heath]

Yeah that's honestly a great way to think about the Codex lmao

[arctic talon]

More like running an army 101

[plush mason]

yeah

[arctic talon]

The rules and regulations are pretty useful

Memes aside

Most chapters vaguely follow the idea of having reserve companies

[meager zinc]

I mean its a 40k rulebook

[arctic talon]

And ways to test fresh marines

To see if they’ll actually succeed

And also the whole thing is getting rewritten lul

[crisp heath]

The "1,000 marine limit" is honestly the rule chapters break the most, even though it's the one everyone thinks of

[arctic talon]

Tbf the 1000 marine limit doesn’t include scouts and support personnel

[plush mason]

the space wolves do that by giving them a bolt pistol and a chainsword and pointing them at the enemy lol

[arctic talon]

People always forget that

[meager zinc]

Yeah i mean if you dont have any cool ideas for your new chapter, you can just follow the codex typa thing

[crisp heath]

Dark Angels and Blood Angels are now both at Legion strength and Space Wolves have a special exception, not to mention all the loopholes succesor chapters find

[arctic talon]

The 1000 marine things almost always been over tbh

Counting veterans, tech marines

Scouts and such

It just matters even less now

Due to shit hitting the fan

[crisp heath]

I mean the 1,000 marines are meant to always be "fighting brothers", but some chapters are more excited to find loopholes than others

[arctic talon]

The black Templar’s are straight up never all in one place

So it’s never really an issue

[meager zinc]

1000 is like the "on paper" unit size

[crisp heath]

Scouts also aren't marines, even though they do have astartes geneseed

[arctic talon]

Seeing as the largest crusade usually isn’t at 1000 marines

Due to attrition, initiates Ect.

[crisp heath]

I think the lamenters were pretty strict about the 1,000 marines thing but uh. We saw how that turned out for them.

[plush mason]

plus they have been on crusade for 10k years so the "no more than 1k" thing hasnt applied to them due to the crusade clause iirc

[arctic talon]

They technically never agreed

To the damn codex lol

[meager zinc]

I can even see a new chapter being up to 400 and saying "nah that's good enough we're gonna head out"

[arctic talon]

But they still follow parts of it

I.E devestators and such

[arctic talon]

Most chapters aren’t at 1000 usually

Just due to the fact marines die so often

In battle

[crisp heath]

honestly 400 is usually seen as severely understrength. Most chapters try to float around the 600-800 mark

Not counting scouts, a chapters scout company can easily have over 1,000 potential marines in it

[meager zinc]

"i got 400 marines and 200 bikes, this themed chapter is ready in my eyes" - me, chapter master biketronius

[undone zodiac]

Exorcists having 3 scout companies for certain reason

[dusk patrol]

I think it’s two but regardless they have excess because the high failure rate of the final test

[meager zinc]

Scouts are like sneaky breeky and snipers right?

[arctic talon]

The purgatomb

[dusk patrol]

They often play that role but not always

[undone zodiac]

Usually

[arctic talon]

They can be snipers or fire support

[crisp heath]

Ok, I looked it up. When the Lamenters were sentenced to a penitence crusade, they only had 300 marines, and this was considered "basically already dead"

[dusk patrol]

Space Wolves for example have veterans act as their scouts

[arctic talon]

They do use full sized bolters

[undone zodiac]

Unless its black templar

[crisp heath]

So 400 would be really low

[undone zodiac]

Or wolves

[arctic talon]

Black Templar scouts use standard scout loadouts

Shotguns, bolters, snipers

Some heavy weapons

[dusk patrol]

They just use them offensively

[arctic talon]

^

[dusk patrol]

Trial by fire

[meager zinc]

I mean scout heavy chapters could be better at dealing with taus longer range tactics

[arctic talon]

Space wolf scouts are veterans

[dusk patrol]

They get chainswords and shit

[arctic talon]

Mostly because they aren’t impulsive idiots

[undone zodiac]

Black templars have no scouts, instead being underlings to standard battle brothers

[arctic talon]

They have scouts technically

[dusk patrol]

They’re scouts just not called that

[arctic talon]

Those initiates are scouts

In everything but name

[dusk patrol]

Space Wolves are distinct because they give them armor and then send them into the fray

[arctic talon]

Only thing is they got a marine in power armor leading them

[crisp heath]

That's not technically true. Scouts in SM armies aren't really "specialized" units like they'd be in a real military. They're just Space Marines-in-training

[arctic talon]

Instead of a veteran leading them

[arctic talon]

Yeah this

The Phobos marines are more like irl scouts

[dusk patrol]

That’s just chapters with a ranged focus

Like the Raptors

[arctic talon]

And scout sergeants are almost always veteran marines

[dusk patrol]

Also Primaris has adjusted how marines operate now

[undone zodiac]

I remember dow 2 scout spamming

[dusk patrol]

More versatility

They can relatively quickly adjust loadouts and armor for different scenarios

[crisp heath]

Some chapters will field their scouts in stealth and sniping to increase the number of survivors to join the chapter, others will just see them as expendable fodder

[dusk patrol]

Typically it’s a scout role though

[undone zodiac]

Id love if there was lore chapter that would be too poor to own power armour and all squads are instead with scout armour

[arctic talon]

Black templars on their way to dump 50 initiates on the front lines

[dusk patrol]

They don’t tend to send them into the fray. There’s a reason the BT and Space Wolf method is singled out

It’s fairly unusual

[arctic talon]

Even the blood angels don’t dump em in like that

[dusk patrol]

It’s not like the same thing but Raptors will sometimes wear scout armor to function better at stealth

[arctic talon]

Till they become full marines

At least

[dusk patrol]

Yeah they just use them as support mostly

Although they do still get in the thick of it but they’re told to not engage in melee when they don’t have to

[arctic talon]

God there’s so many ultramarine minis

I forgot the captain of the 10th company is his own mini

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0348/4221/4459/products/ezgif-4-d993ffd7d7a8_580x.jpg?v=1612042497

[dusk patrol]

And he’s awesome

[arctic talon]

Yes he is

[dusk patrol]

It’s kinda one thing I love about the UM

[arctic talon]

Still funny since he’s one of 2 captains

[undone zodiac]

There was in war for badab a part where red scorpion battle brothers ditched power armour for scout armour for mission

[arctic talon]

In carapace armor

[dusk patrol]

You get every niche covered and it’s kinda fun

[arctic talon]

There’s also the uhh dark angels guy

[dusk patrol]

It happens

[meager zinc]

If any chapter has 1000+ marines, its the UM

[unique berry]

Why would they wear capes arent they in the way

[dusk patrol]

Plenty of chapters have 1000+

[arctic talon]

Camo cloak

[dusk patrol]

UM aren’t even the most codex compliant chapter

[undone zodiac]

Except lamenters

[meager zinc]

Solely on the amount of stuff GW has out on them

[unique berry]

Oh thx

[dusk patrol]

Also it looks cool

[crisp heath]

Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and many successors all have over 1,000 fully-trained, frontline combat marines

[undone zodiac]

I need to get scouts to paint

[meager zinc]

Like who?

[vital kernel]

As of Indomitus, no Primaris chapter is codex compliant anymore.

[arctic talon]

Too bad those minis are sort of uh ugly

I wish scouts looked better

[undone zodiac]

Not issue

[arctic talon]

But by god

[crisp heath]

I think Grey Knights are also over 1,000?

[arctic talon]

They have not aged well

Grey Knights, several blood angel successors, the dark angels, imperial fists

Just to name a few over 1k

[meager zinc]

Is that including wulven?

[arctic talon]

No

They count as “support”

[unique berry]

The Black Templar obviously

[dusk patrol]

Well it varies but Minotaurs, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and a lot of the newly remade chapters

[arctic talon]

The blood angels have thousands of mutants chained up

In a tower lol

[undone zodiac]

Astral claws

[crisp heath]

No, Space Wolves have a special exception that their chapter can be over 1,000 fully trained battle-brothers because they are incapable of making successor chapters due to their geneseed defect

[arctic talon]

I wouldn’t call em full marines

[undone zodiac]

[dusk patrol]

Bit racist innit?

[crisp heath]

Every Space Wolf successor is either Primaris or Traitor. There are no loyalist, firstborn Space Wolf succesor.

[arctic talon]

Yeah they sort of all failed

[dusk patrol]

Well

[arctic talon]

Miserably

[meager zinc]

If i was a space marine, i dunno if id leave the scouts. Id stick with being a sniper i think. Melee combat is too much of a risk imo

[dusk patrol]

There are probably elements of Space Wolves firstborn who went to assist the successors

But yeah none not from Fenris

For firstborn

[arctic talon]

You could ask to be shoved back in as a sgt.

For scouts

But odds are you’ll end up in a devestator squad first

Then a assault squad potentially

[dusk patrol]

Then you’d be Torias Telion

[arctic talon]

Lol

[vital kernel]

The Codex Astartes is not just "1000 guys", it's a whole set of doctrine.
And the Primaris Marines are no longer conducting operations according to Codex Astartes guidelines.

[undone zodiac]

Blood angels do the assault first

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[meager zinc]

Okay but if we get in melee, im gonna start complaining.

[crisp heath]

Blood Angels are technically legion strength now because after the Devastation of Ba'al most of their successors swore fealty to Dante, making them Blood Angels in most ways

[dusk patrol]

I meant to reply to Frisco

[unique berry]

Sounds like a win

[undone zodiac]

Dark angels pull strings of their successors for most part

So yea legion

[vital kernel]

I dunno mate, on battlefields where you're facing Titans, Tanks etc being a sniper is not a lot safer than being a close combat foot slogger.

[arctic talon]

Not all dark angels chapters are in the unforgiven

It’s just like

90% of em lol

[undone zodiac]

Yea but still some assist

[meager zinc]

I mean if im scoutin, im seeing them before all those things see me.

[undone zodiac]

Like angels of absolution

[vital kernel]

Are you sure about that?

[meager zinc]

I better be??? (Tyranids explode from the ground below me)

[unique berry]

Thats what u hope happens

[crisp heath]

Dark Angels lie about their numbers and treat some of their successor chapters as a DA companies so their numbers are really high

[meager zinc]

Yknow where id wanna put my new chapters home on? A space hulk.

Really set the bar high right out the gate.

Its like the space marine equivalent of flipping an abandoned mansion

[unique berry]

What kind of Chapter successors of what Legion?

[meager zinc]

I dunno salamanders or something

The biggest problem would be trying to get more terminator armor than the average new chapter

[unique berry]

True but why would ya need so many Terminator sure they are strong but u could focus on another kind of combat

[meager zinc]

I guess? I dunno, they always make it seem like you need terminator armor to clear space hulks

[unique berry]

Just do the Blood Raven move and yoink them from another Chapter

[meager zinc]

Or maybe i could refurbish and restore some chaos space marine equipment?

[undone zodiac]

Somewhat unfeasible bcuz of corruption

Maybe founding mechanicus foundry ship inside hulk with old patterms of terminators?

[meager zinc]

Yeah see it also depends what can be salvaged from the space hulk

But we cant let it go, so if its falling back into the warp, the whole chapters gotta jump on for the ride

[north lotus]

Nids.

That’s practically a nid style emblem

[brittle slate]

risky. taint.

(my stage name)

[meager zinc]

I mean its gotta be worth restoring and dechaosing first

[brittle slate]

stuff doesn't always dechaos

[meager zinc]

Well yeah i mean you gotta pass it thru all them litanies and seals and such

If the chief librarian is still giving it the stink eye after like a week of chants yknow we'll throw it out the airlock

But yknow its gotta be good stuff, like a pre-heresy dreadnought platform

[unique berry]

We need dem dreadnoughts

[brittle slate]

you'l get dem railguns

https://tenor.com/view/railgun-railgun-projectile-railgun-test-railgun-demonstration-railgun-ballistics-gif-19417087

[hexed shard]

Are Astartes abhumans?

[crisp heath]

No, because Astartes aren't a stable mutation but rather an intentional bio-technology

[dusk patrol]

No

[crisp heath]

Abhumans evolved with mutations that became stable (AKA: no likelihood to evolve into other mutations) so they're accepted to some degree, but Astartes were intentionally created and therefore not mutants in any way

The "mutants" the Imperium hates are unstable, and can form new mutations, and sometimes are the product of Chaos, which is why things like beastmen are very on the fence because they come in many different forms and tend towards Chaos

[hexed shard]

So abhumans are born by accident?

[dusk patrol]

No

It’s a consistent offshoot basically

Generally came about during the DAoT or the Age of Strife

Typically for colonists to survive better

[hexed shard]

So only two ogryns can have an ogryn

[crisp heath]

Abhumans are humans who were isolated from what we know as "humans" today, and adapted to their environment because they couldn't "marry" normal modern humans

[hexed shard]

Aren’t psykers abhumans?

[crisp heath]

Some of them

[hexed shard]

Is the emperor an abhuman? He’s colossal

[crisp heath]

Some psykers are mutants, and some special psykers, like navigators, are abhuman

The Emperor is an abhuman type called "perpetual", but calling him an abhuman is heresy in the Imperium

[hexed shard]

How convenient lol

Perpetuals are the ones who are immortal right

[crisp heath]

But now the lore is moving towards "most humans are psykers" so psykers might not technically be mutants anymore, even though powerful psykers are still discriminated against

[crisp heath]

yes, they're immortal and more likely to develop psychic powers

If you want to draw a line between what is a "mutant", "abhuman", or "mainline human", things can get messy, because genetics are hard and GW wants to toe a line between classic fantasy tropes and not offending anyone

Basically, mutants reproduce and cause "worse" mutants (they're just weird looking and potentially dangerous), abhumans reproduce and make another of their abhuman type, and mainline humans look mostly like you or me do (but the Imperium is open to differences in things like skin or eye or hair color, or being a bit bigger or smaller than usual)

Basically if a person can exist in the real world, they're mainline human, if they have human traits but look pretty different from anyone you've met they're abhuman, and if they look and act like total monsters they're mutants

Ogryn make baby Ogryn, Ratlings make baby Ratlings, Felinids make baby Felinids etc, but mutants can have all kinds of chaos monstrosities as babies, and mainline humans (usually) make children who look like you and me

Beastmen toe the line between the two because they don't look like humans, they don't act like humans, and they're prone to chaos worship but some are loyal to the Imperium, but they've been neglected by lore lately and there's a lot of conflicting info about them

[storm jungle]

Abhumans are mutants too tbh.

A mutation is basically any physical difference from a "baseline" human, even down to 2 different eye-colors if you want to be technical.

"Abhumans" as a term only exists so the Imperium doesnt classify any mutant that is useful to the regime as an Undesirable™️

[crisp heath]

I'll counter this with Cadians. There have been rules and lore throw-outs that allow for ethnic differences, and the cadian purple eyes are more of an ethnic trait than a mutation. Every planet, in my understanding, has a different standard for judging mutants in line with the ethnic traits that can show up on that planet.

[storm jungle]

Thats basically just GW not knowing how human evolution works tbh

Cadians also classify as mutants since purple eyes arent natural

its nitpicking but its basically a correct form of classification

[dusk patrol]

Sure but this is just for in universe purposes

[storm jungle]

Yeah more or less

so it doesnt really matter to argue between abhuman/mutant tbh

[rose thorn]

The funniest shit ever is when I hear the main downside of playing GSC is that they require a shit load of strategy

[dusk patrol]

In universe though there’s a distinction between abhuman and mutant in how they’re used

Even if Abhumans are a mutation

[rose thorn]

A mutation would imply it would be unnatural

[crisp heath]

I understand we need to allow for writing, but as I understand it GW has always been a little progressive, even if that shows poorly looking back, and the definition of what is a "mutation" has always allowed for different planets having ethnicities that don't exist today, including Cadian eyes, even if they were created by Chaos.

[rose thorn]

Abhumans are naturally that way

[dusk patrol]

It was originally

And mutations don’t have to be unnatural

[storm jungle]

Also this.

Like the church for example barely tolerates any abhuman.

Space Marines are also seen as mutants by Sororitas

which... isnt wrong

[dusk patrol]

It’s just in universe they refer to mutants typically as the more random unstable changes

Whereas Abhumans are stable strains

[rose thorn]

Let’s just agree they are excuses for the inquisition to murder people

[crisp heath]

Sororitas are the most zealous women to exist and that doesn't reflect on the lower class or even the ecclesiarchy

[storm jungle]

I mean again

they arent wrong

Astartes are mutated into what they are.

[dusk patrol]

I mean the Inquisition doesn’t do anything mostly to mutants

Way below their pay grade

[rose thorn]

Chad pure children of the 4 armed emperor vs virgin mutated monsters of the false god

[crisp heath]

yeah, this is what I'm getting at. A mutant might mutate further in their own life, and if they don't, they'll have children with different mutations.

The Imperium sees the human form as sacred, and since mutants can change at any time, they reject the human form.

[rose thorn]

(I have been reading day of ascension)

[dusk patrol]

Basically what matters is in universe Abhumans are stable strains which reproduce consistently into the same thing

Mutants are random and unstable

That’s the distinction, technically Abhumans are mutations but that’s why random tentacle boi down in the hive isn’t a abhuman

[crisp heath]

Yeah, and we had this talk a couple days ago but abhumans also have a human soul, which is in a way what the Imperium is really worried about (consider souls are a real, measurable thing in this setting)

[dusk patrol]

And why ratlings and ogryns are

I mean all of them have souls

Even Tau have souls

[storm jungle]

Any living thing that isnt a Null has a soul

thats just the Church being fascist

[rose thorn]

Also I don’t think the difference is relaly observed considering the fucking hilariously large amounts of brood brothers

[dusk patrol]

It’s more just the fanatics being silly

[storm jungle]

Yep

[dusk patrol]

The zealots in the game are extreme even for the church

[storm jungle]

like its someone going "Do disabled people have souls"

[crisp heath]

I'm going to bring up necrons and probably tyranids, but at the same time there's a difference between a "human" soul and a "xenos" soul

[dusk patrol]

That’s why some of them are locked up

Nids technically do sorta

[storm jungle]

Im pretty sure all souls are the same to the Warp

[dusk patrol]

Necrons are nulls

Effectively

[dusk patrol]

Some are dimmer

[rose thorn]

All souls are basically the same, it just happens some are weaker then others

[dusk patrol]

Tau and Kin souls in particular

[storm jungle]

Yeah was gonna say, some are like daemons eating grass compared to a full blown breakfast meal

[final solar]

Necrons don’t

[crisp heath]

I'm a fan of tyranid bioforms having souls, but they can't be recognized as "human" souls. I think there's enough in lore to determine that what species a soul is matters.

[final solar]

They were eaten by the C’tan

[rose thorn]

Eldar are pretty strong while clones like LoV and some humans are pretty week

[dusk patrol]

Also use of bionics dims your soul it seems

Theres a Iron Hands Psyker who observes his brothers souls becoming dimmer as they take more and more bionics

[final solar]

Necrontyr had souls, Necron do not

[crisp heath]

I think an Eldar soul and a Human soul are fundamentally different in some way that people in universe recognize, but I'll admit GW has been sloppy in drawing that distinction.

[storm jungle]

They dont go beyond "Eldar soul more shiny because psychic"

[dusk patrol]

Eldar are all psykers

Besides Drukhari

So that’s a big part of it

[storm jungle]

Yeah druks are like rotten fruit

[crisp heath]

I was using this as an example, but when you get into what happens to a soul in the warp I think that becomes more apparent.

[dusk patrol]

Psyker souls are all much much brighter

But regardless, to circle back

Genestealer cults are scum who win be losing

[final solar]

Souls are essentially Warp Clout

[dusk patrol]

Pathetic

This has been my TEDTalk

[storm jungle]

Offensive against bald people now is it 😔

[dusk patrol]

Megamind looking ass

[storm jungle]

Lmao

[final solar]

Stats don’t lie, just look at the Primarchs

[storm jungle]

[dusk patrol]

I blame almost all 40k writers being bald

[final solar]

Time for Hair Squigs

[storm jungle]

I swear the qualification of a BL writer is:

Bald
Beard
Glasses

also being a man i guess

[dusk patrol]

Behold, a Rogaine salesman’s wet dream

[final solar]

2/3 aint bad, time to start doodling

[storm jungle]

THEY LITERALLY ALL LOOK THE SAME

HOLY SHIT

[dusk patrol]

Abnett is a wizard now

[crisp heath]

Dude I'm not going to lie we only have 1 bald loyalist primarch, but half the traitor primarchs are bald. This is man-hair supremacy.

[dusk patrol]

Wraight is the Chad rocking that hairline

I think it’s more than half

But tbh a lot shave their heads

Horus and Perturabo in particular do it for the evil head tubes

Mortarion does it because he’s Mortarion

[plush mason]

some people do ask that with mentally disabled people speaking from personal experience sadly so i find those dialogs refreshing in their accurate depictions of how fucked up a zealot's mind is irl

[crisp heath]

Ok. So I'm speaking as a lesbian, not a man, so no one call male gaze on me. but. Where are all the eldar chicks with hair? I don't want the top knot anymore.

[dusk patrol]

Lorgar does it because he didn’t spend hours tattooing all that shit in his dome not to show it off

[dusk patrol]

There are three hair styles in 40k

Military cut

Top knot

Bald

[storm jungle]

Yeah like the Imperium basically sees any deformity as almost "subhuman", sensibly the writers dont use this in literature because its too edgy and close to home. Genetic purity is pretty much basically encouraged by the Imperium/church as a whole in the lore too to push the fucked up nature of it home for the reader.

[dusk patrol]

Space Wolves unlock a fourth wild hair

Blood Angels get flowing locks

[crisp heath]

I genuinely understand it was hard to make metal models with hair that wasn't a top knot. but. please. We have plastic now

[dusk patrol]

They do have them tbh it’s just an Eldar style thing

Also stop simping for Eldar

[storm jungle]

Also yeah Eldar borrow a lot from eastern cultures hence the long hair/topknots

[dusk patrol]

You have Olga Ursula now

[crisp heath]

Yeah Eldar always have the top knot and it's not cool on either gender. They could do so much more with hair from a character design perspective

[dusk patrol]

Tell that to them

[crisp heath]

and I think they've done that! with every race except eldar

[storm jungle]

Old eldar had glam rock hair styles but even thats dropped now 😔

[dusk patrol]

Can’t be helped that their culture has terrible style

Now that

That’s really style

Metal arms

So in this season

[crisp heath]

I love the 2009 anime catgirl/ 1998 metal band/ 2010 scene girl teased hair look, they need to bring that back sometimes

It's just something that is quintessentially... alt?? Ig? It's unusual but still visually appealing

[storm jungle]

It sometimes pops up in artworks but otherwise with the minis its nada

[undone zodiac]

Colonel "i kicked abbadon on balls" stracken

[storm jungle]

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/eldar-phantom-crew.jpg

Heres an old eldar titan-crew art lmao

[dusk patrol]

Just kit bash Escher heads on your models

[rose thorn]

omg THEY ARE AMAZING

[plush mason]

why do they look like some strange hair band?

[rose thorn]

100% reminds me of shadow run

[plush mason]

the overcoat one flat out walked out of a shadow run poster

[rose thorn]

Literally the exact same vibe

[storm jungle]

Basically

glam rock and david bowie were super famous in the 80's

Same as how Sororitas got bobcuts/platinum hair because Madonna was super famous at the time

[plush mason]

....

[storm jungle]

Again, 40k isn't a serious universe

[plush mason]

no it is not

[final solar]

Why do you think they have pointy helmets

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

One necessitates the other

[plush mason]

i guess that is what happens when you exist in a universe that is missing one of its fundamental laws of physics. talk about a flex and a massive fuck up from our favorite spooky metal bois lol

[storm jungle]

Lmao yeah more or less

anything that was cool in the 80-90's is in warhammer pretty much

[plush mason]

i still want to know wtf they hit that C'tan with to literal remove a law of reality along with it

[storm jungle]

It was ||Plot™️||

[rose thorn]

Who did it?

[plush mason]

the Necrons

[rose thorn]

Ah yes the same faction that literally can teleport into the 4th dimension

[plush mason]

yup

[storm jungle]

On the opposite side, Necrons get hit the nerf-hammer a lot too since even your basic cryptek can turn an entire Imperial Guard regiment into gold with mettalurgy-science

Their tech is literally "Its so complex that it looks like magic"

[rose thorn]

Honestly if any faction should have super bullshit it should be nevrons

[plush mason]

just casual god tier tech stuff

[rose thorn]

Omg do they even have pyker phase?

[storm jungle]

I... dont know

[rose thorn]

In table top

[storm jungle]

they got no souls so i guess no minis enter the psychic category?

Crypteks are the closest equilavent to "wizards" in the army

[rose thorn]

Okay no they ahve no pykers

[storm jungle]

but like i said they just... use "tech wizardr" no psychic stuff

yeah more or less

[rose thorn]

And they can’t even deny the witch

[plush mason]

i guess the afore mentioned "new collection of life sized gold statues" would been in their "psyker" phase

[storm jungle]

Lmao

yeah id love to help but I know nothing about tabletop

[rose thorn]

Lmao

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cryptek

But crypteks are literally mini-Dr Manhattans

Can manipulate weather, earth, elements, substances, etc

[rose thorn]

WHat

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah also time travel

[rose thorn]

WHAT

[rose thorn]

That makes sense

[storm jungle]

Every known "dicipline" they can use so far

[rose thorn]

Is it like the stone mages for the luminetg realmlords

[plush mason]

i remember the first one i fought in the mechanicus video game. namely due to the way it fucked up that metallica magos' views for a bit lol

[storm jungle]

Basically more or less yeah.

A cryptek usually only learns one discipline though since trying to learn multiple ones makes you apparently seem desperate or "unfocused" to your peers

thats their lore excuse around how a single cryptek doesnt know every tech-tree and is literally fucking proken/OP

[rose thorn]

•Datamancer

[storm jungle]

he uh

mances data

basically a necron hacker

[rose thorn]

lmao

[storm jungle]

Again, necrons are fucking OP.

the lore constantly needs to find reasons for them to lose when the other side has to win

[rose thorn]

Outweigh their metal with corpses

[plush mason]

dont the big ass OP weapons and dudes take a long time to awaken/rarely bother with most threats once they do?

[storm jungle]

Thats the main excuse yep

something-something

• Overlord is senile

• Tomb world wakes up slowly

• We defeated them while their OP units werent functioning

• We killed their sentient-leaders and the warrior caste doesnt know what to do

etc etc

[storm jungle]

Yeah but when a Necron hits you there is no corpse

https://tenor.com/view/necrons-warhammer-gauss-gif-24598584

[rose thorn]

OH GOD YOU ARE RIGHT

[storm jungle]

their main basic infantry weapons half-melt tanks

[rose thorn]

In that same trailer doenst a sisters literkaly just ignore being shot

[storm jungle]

Yeah because plot armor

[rose thorn]

LMAo

[storm jungle]

she prays and it gets fixed

EZ

CLAP

A gauss-rifle basically de-atomizes you entirely

[rose thorn]

OMFG SOB GIMMICK IS LITERALLY PLOT ARMOR

[storm jungle]

YES

IT IS

[plush mason]

and then there is the reanimation BS. so even if you "kill" one it may just get back up later

[storm jungle]

Faith Powers are literally deus-ex-machinas

[dusk patrol]

I mean that's warp bullshit

[storm jungle]

Lmao yeah

[rose thorn]

LMAO

[dusk patrol]

Necrons run on space magic

Other factions run on magic magic

[storm jungle]

Yeah its literally "techo-wizardy"

its not fully explained

their tech is just THAT advanced

[rose thorn]

Also I think I regret learning fantasy lore it is that lore 40k lore is the exact same

[plush mason]

Necrons run on telling the laws of the universe "fuck off we do what we want"

[dusk patrol]

They're not really

There's just some crossover

[storm jungle]

Nah Fantasy has a lot of great stuff

some ill say even better than 40k

[rose thorn]

I agree

[dusk patrol]

Sigmar powers aren't that similar to faith stuff in 40k.

[rose thorn]

I mean 40k lore literally just copy’s fantasy’s homework

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah

Fantasy came first

[dusk patrol]

Well the base was originally yeah

Its changed a lot since

[storm jungle]

entire reason why the setting is called Warhammer is because of Sugma's hammer

Also yeee

[rose thorn]

‘I can’t wait to learn about elves in AOS’

[storm jungle]

OOF

[rose thorn]

‘I-I - oh.

[storm jungle]

its okay they got better after slaanesh vored them in the End Times

aka teclis and co disemboweled her and saved mostly everyone

[rose thorn]

Yeah and now they are chill with chaos

[storm jungle]

Oh nah

they are fully against chaos

they just uh

[rose thorn]

As in, elves can join chaos

[storm jungle]

Wait what

[rose thorn]

Yeah

There’s even a few models

[dusk patrol]

I mean they kinda imprisoned a Chaos God

They always had some chaos eldar

[plush mason]

again. GW loves ruining their own lore

[storm jungle]

Oh that

like some can get corrupted yeah, but the standing elven population is fully against chaos

Lumineth and other elven factions help other Order factions a lot with it

the problem is

and one of the best things i like about AOS

Order factions are assholes to each other too

[rose thorn]

Omg lumineth are so fucking evil

It’s not even funny

[storm jungle]

THEY LITERALLY

HAVE BA SING SEI

[rose thorn]

LMAO

[storm jungle]

WHERE THEY BRAINWASH YOU IF YOU MISBEHAVE

Settler's Gain is the name

But Im not gonna complain because theres also sigmarite/dwarven cities too where you get your brain bashed in for having the wrong opinions at times

[rose thorn]

Didn’t they literally starve a bunch of people because they were too busy or some shit

[plush mason]

speaking of. was his hammer always that weird "twin tailed" comet looking thing or nah?

[storm jungle]

Oh nah

the hammer was basically just a warhammer

the twin-tailed comet is a decoration other imperials sometimes use since it was on the sky the day sigmar was born

lemme get ghal-maraz 1 sec

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/age-of-sigmar/images/7/70/Ghal_Maraz.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170613185544

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/5/52/Sigmar_Heldenhammer.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130921045017

[plush mason]

that, is a weirdly sensible looking warhammer for a high fantasy setting

[storm jungle]

Yeah it was because it is basically just an OP warhammer

it was thrown to Sigmar to use by a dwarf king during an ork ambush

a quick "GRAB THIS AND SMASH EM" moment

[plush mason]

rad

[storm jungle]

Yeee its great

naturally tho now its a holy item due to faith powers in Fantasy and carried over to AOS due to peoples' belief in Sigmar

[plush mason]

and then he yeets it at Arc and the chaos gods send it thru a portal iirc

[storm jungle]

Yeah its iffy

But canonically he just left Ghal Maraz when Sigmar went off to the North

and its been passed down to every Emperor since

During the End Times when Sigmar came back he inhabited Karl Franz as an avatar than became himself and just took the hammer from there iirc

[rich vale]

I'm curious, in fantasy (not aos), if a Warrior Priest of Sigmar were to somehow happen upon Ghal Maraz how would the rest of the cult treat it if that priest started using it for Sigmarite stuff and being a hero?

[storm jungle]

It would instantly be taken from him and sent to the capital to be confiscated and given to the current Emperor more or less.

The treatment of the Priest is entirely down to how he acted using the weapon.

Its an INCREDIBLY symbolic weapon, they wouldn't let a random priest use it.

[dusk patrol]

He'd probably use it to bash in some orc skulls a bit but how it got to him would be really weird.

[storm jungle]

The RPG book Empire in Flames also has this:

The real Ghal Maraz was found by adventurers in 2512 during the Turmoil in the Pass of Black Fire and returned to Karl Franz after defeating the Greater Daemon of Tzeentch, Sheerargetru. What subsequent emperors possessed until 2512 was a replica; it was a powerful magical weapon, blessed by the priests of Sigmar and constructed by skilled dwarven runesmen, but it was only an imitation. The truth about it remained a state secret in the empire .

[rich vale]

So if he used the hammer to slay Orcs and protect humans they'd probably be happy with him but still want to take it?

[storm jungle]

Yep.

Like this is basically you using a Super Relic™️ item

it holds great religious and political weight, you have to give it up.

[rich vale]

Damn. At rank 4 warrior priest I'm supposed to get a Sigmarite holy relic as part of my career, but I'm not super familiar with the lore for Sigmar stuff so Ghal Maraz was the only idea I had

[storm jungle]

Yeah no dont

Ghal Maraz is basically like a random Inquisitor using the 40k Emperor's sword.

[rich vale]

Although, I guess if I did pick Ghal Maraz, and returned it to the emperor, maybe they'd give me the replica since it's no longer needed?

[brittle slate]

Lol

[storm jungle]

My advice?

[unique berry]

Pretty hammer

[storm jungle]

Basically give your priest another relic hammer

make a cool/badass backstory of its origin

At the end of the day the best part of Warhammer is making homebrew stuff like that, id highly suggest shying away from muddling your character too much with canon items/stuff used by official characters

It imo lowers the struggle/personal coolness of your character

[rich vale]

Personally I think its kind of cool still, it's like being the guy who found Excalibur if King Arthur lost it

The weapon does have a lot of history but there's something about being the one who found it

But another rune/relic hammer would be fitting too

[storm jungle]

Up to you dude, just giving my 2 cents 👀

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ghal_Maraz

but heres the whole thing incase you wanna read/brainstorm

[rich vale]

Danke

[plush mason]

so Ghal Maraz is Khazalid for skull-splitter

[storm jungle]

Yep, its a dwarven hammer

hence the translation

[plush mason]

ye i just didnt know what its name translated too

[storm jungle]

[plush mason]

i swear that has to be another of Tolkien's legacies, all these hella fancy sounding weapon names that when translated become a lot more mundane almost comically so lol

[storm jungle]

Lmao yeah Warhammer Fantasy does this a lot. Theres this one elven dragon prince who works as a mercenary with his dragon and one of the quotes from his human mercs is:

"The dragon apparently has a really fancy name but in common tongue hes just death-fang."

[plush mason]

yeah

[rich vale]

We don't talk about how Heldenhammer translates to Hammer of Heroes but Warhammer just says its "Goblin Hammer"

[plush mason]

well in-universe "helden"=goblin ofc 😛

[plush mason]

ok "elven dragon prince that works as a merc" just screams "DnD character story"

[storm jungle]

Its really good and from the Dogs of War codex

http://i.imgur.com/JD2cyo3.png

[plush mason]

yeah its just funny that it reads like it was made for an RNG game

[storm jungle]

the same book also has one mercenary company who works for poor people

it has pretty goofy but great stuff, as you say very DnD

[rich vale]

I kind of wish they'd bring back half elves and half orcs cause I feel like those would be pretty interesting for the setting. Like I think in 1e or 2e they existed, but with the more fleshed out lore of the modern era it would be really interesting to see how Elves or Humans treat a halfbreed

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah they did

like had proper lore and everything

I guess they just got rid of it as the setting got a bit more "serious"

[rich vale]

They did revive Solkan so maybe there's a chance

Even made new Gods of Law

[signal bramble]

Voland’s Venators and their story is hilarious.

And I appreciate the pun of Maximilian Damarc and his snipers.

[storm jungle]

Its a very nice book

shame they dont make em like they used to anymore

[rose thorn]

I’m the hallow king they suspended people into an infinite loop death civilians’ soul wouldn’t go to nagash. They called it mercy lmao-

[storm jungle]

Lmao whoops

[rose thorn]

YuP

They are so fucking full of them selves too

[storm jungle]

honestly when its Nagash

ill take the other end

my guy's hat expands with his ego

[rose thorn]

I’d rather die then infinitely live In the moment I died

At that point

[storm jungle]

at least Nagash MIGHT make you a cool skeleton

Probably

maybe not

[rose thorn]

Chaos it’s a flip of a coin of being a monster or being eaten lmao

[storm jungle]

Lmao yeah

Life in AOS legit can be shitty af

good luck if you arent in a walled settlement

[rose thorn]

Good luck if you are

Literally every fuckiny city in AOS is most likely infected with a tzeentch cult

That’s not even a joke

[storm jungle]

Or constantly under the threat of invasion too.

Like in Fantasy if you are walled in you only have to deal with the occassional beastmen/chaos raid which isnt much since you are way more advanced

in AOS anyone can siege your city

• Dwarves

• Fire Dwarves

• Sky Dwarves

• Elves

[rose thorn]

‘Money, money, money’

[storm jungle]

• Fish Elves

• Humans

• Chaos Humans

okay you get my point

[storm jungle]

Those kharadrons legit saw the golden sigmar statue on the city center and went "WE'RE RICH" and bombarded everyone 💀

[rose thorn]

In the realm of death the night haunts will fucking hold attacks unmatched in size if too many people die

[storm jungle]

yeah like

the amount of factions that can attack your settlement for any reason is immense

which is just sad tbh

[rose thorn]

OMG IT WAS SO FUCKING FUNNY WHEN THE LUMINETH REALIXED WHAT WAS HAPPENING DURING THE NIGHT HAUNT RAID

They were battling uhhh

Bone reapers

And then they began dying alot but pushed in to attack more

And one of them was like ‘hey why do I hear the screams of the dead?’

And they got attacked on all ends and poeple literally threw their weapons down and ran away

Before getting absolutely destroyed

[rose thorn]

I love in AOS the alliances literally mean nothing

[storm jungle]

Yeah like when you see the psoter you think

"Oh my god heres actually good factions"

cue your local stormcasts bashing peoples skulls in for finding a chaos cult

[rose thorn]

Drags cigarette the trees are eating us.

Again

I think the only faction that actually works together is death

Alliance*

[storm jungle]

Yeah more or less

literally every Order factions hates each other

[rose thorn]

But even then SBGL have a shit load of in fighting

[storm jungle]

Kharadrons are just DRG tho so they get a pass

[rose thorn]

I relaly never thought the followers of the god of murder would like to hang out with farmers and the space lizards

[rose thorn]

Shout out to when they doomed like 10 fucking cities to be killed by the deep kin

[storm jungle]

They did WHAT

[rose thorn]

Because he stole some funny coral

[storm jungle]

I respect the grind tho

[rose thorn]

Yeah he stole some funny soul coral and drove from the bottom to the top of the coats

Coast*

[signal bramble]

The closest to a good faction I could think of was the lizard men in fantasy. Mostly because they were more neutral than anything and happy to leave everyone else alone if they got left alone.

[rose thorn]

And every he drove by was eventually raided and killed hunting him

[storm jungle]

Dwarf Moment

[storm jungle]

also yeah their isolationism kinda helps

[rose thorn]

Don’t worry he got killed by the flying turtles

[final solar]

This reads like a Dwarf Fortress story

[storm jungle]

It really does

[signal bramble]

“Leave us alone and we’ll leave you alone” is about as good as you can get in warhammer.

[storm jungle]

Meanwhile Norsca:

[rose thorn]

Fits the lore

[storm jungle]

"Lmao look at all this gold i found in these temples"

[rose thorn]

The fyre slayers aren’t much better

Screaming naked dwarves that murder people for IPhone gold

[signal bramble]

But yeah isolationist lizard men were the closest to good for the reasons stated. I don’t know if AoS version is the same.