40k-lore-chat

[signal bramble]

Nah

[north lotus]

Quite the opposite, it’s quite viable, but you have to build yourself for it.

[upbeat dagger]

i can see korhne and maybe tseench

[meager zinc]

Ya heat it up. Transfer of energy yo.

[upbeat dagger]

not slaneesh

*slaanesh

[ivory crow]

they would instantly add 100,000 players if they added slanessh

for the titties alone

[upbeat dagger]

and their game would go from M to Afult

*aduly

[north lotus]

But melee exclusive characters aren’t something I’d recommend

[ivory crow]

they should make it adult game

its 40k

[signal bramble]

They show Slaanesh cultists in the ciaphas cain books, It would very much turn this game to an AO rating. XD

Short version: A lot of them are basically naked while attacking.

One of them is naked but wearing shoes so not entirely.

[meager zinc]

But slaanesh is like the warped nightmare concept of pleasure. So its like a 20ft wall of moaning boobs weeping sex fluids

[signal bramble]

Slaanesh isn't just sex, it's hedonism and excess of all kinds.

[ivory crow]

my favorite imperium qoute so far during loading is " Blessed are the Intolerant" Way to be anti woke hahaha

[meager zinc]

Yeah just coke, lsd and heroin straight to your veins 24/7

[upbeat dagger]

also is there anything wrong with banning the gray knight career? i kinda want space marines to be reserved to a fairly mythical status

[signal bramble]

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt. An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred.

Intellect is the mask of the traitor.

[north lotus]

That’s implied. If grey knights are out on the field, the situation has progressed FAR beyond what is recommended

[ivory crow]

intellect is the mask of the traitor is also very good

[signal bramble]

The GK show up when there's a full on daemonic incursion that needs to be stopped. The inquisition is there to stop it from reaching that point in the first place.

[ivory crow]

reminds of me of chinas 1000 flowers campaign or whatever it was called where they jailed all the intellectuals

[north lotus]

Ah yes, anti intellectualism, a socialist/communist classic

[meager zinc]

Yet intolerance and intellectual suppression still isnt helping humanity curb chaos

[signal bramble]

The entire idea of the imperium is that if people start questioning their place and role then they start thinking outside their station which leads to rebellion and heresy which they will not tolerate.

[north lotus]

It’s better than letting chaos work out in the open.

[ivory crow]

the imperium is stagnant and has not progressed in thousands of years because if intolerance though its why it will fail

[signal bramble]

Though the imperium doesn't need to rely on creating fear of existential threats that don't exist. The orks, dark eldar, nids, and necrons would be more than happy to enslave and/or murder all of humanity if given the chance.

Chaos also.

[north lotus]

That’s kinda what I was going to talk about.

The imperium is the way it is, because the situation is that bad

[signal bramble]

When everyone wants to exterminate everyone concepts like tolerance and peace can't really exist.

"A moment of leniency is equivalent to a lifetime of betrayal."

[meager zinc]

Nah im just saying there needs to be a better state of mind. I bet buddhism prolly is the best way to defeat chaos within? Inner peace, release from all worldly wants and all that?

[signal bramble]

Not when you have entities that can mind control you or influence the way you think using unnatural power.

[ivory crow]

all of you would be summerarily executed for having such in depth conversation as were having now in the imperium

[signal bramble]

The zealous faith in the emperor actually protects them from chaos.

And again, it's difficult to have any kind of calm or peace when you have creatures that will happily destroy you and everything you hold dear without mercy.

Believe me, the necrons and the orks will happily wipe out your planet and laugh at you for talking about concepts of peace if they even listen to what you have to say before they destroy you.

[north lotus]

Part of the reason the imperium is the way it is, is that the forces against it are that bad. It’s a situation where reading the wrong book could turn you into a writhing spawn of hell.

[meager zinc]

Yeah but if you rid yourself of any wants and just want to achieve spiritual satisfaction through meditation, that could be harder for chaos to find corruption within you.

I mean unless like a plaguemarine slices you in half

[ivory crow]

i am a Tau guy they believe in the greater good

[meager zinc]

Yknow it depends on the situation

[signal bramble]

It's not gonna happen. You don't get those moments of meditation. The average imperial citizen that we are shown work 16-18 hours a day, 7 days a week. Their only breaks being to pray and eat some horrible food.

[meager zinc]

See i think that poor work life balance is ripe for chaos corruption

[signal bramble]

It is.

[meager zinc]

Get an inquisitor on that

Work life balanctorium

[signal bramble]

But the imperium needs it's people productive to support the war effort and by keeping them uneducated and too exhausted to think also prevents chaos corruption.

If they don't know that other people have it better they assume that's just how it is.

[meager zinc]

Yeah see the problem is? Humanitys fightin wayyy too many things rn

[signal bramble]

They're spread thin but they can't risk focusing too much focus on one.

[north lotus]

The other problem is that it assumes idealistically in people.

[meager zinc]

They could ally with the necrons eldar and tau and maybe start an alliahaahahahahaha sorry i cant finish this sentence

[signal bramble]

You also can't apply our standards to the imperium because it's existence is unlike anything in our modern world.

[real helm]

They are working with Ynari tho

[signal bramble]

They don't think that way in universe.

[north lotus]

Thank god.

That’s a point I want to make

[meager zinc]

40k universe is supposed to suck and nothing is supposed to work well on any level

[north lotus]

The imperium would love to be a republic, I mean look at the imperial senate! The problem is (for example) that this has the issue of genestealers and cultists taking advantage of it

[meager zinc]

Trying to really fix any of the 40k's deep seeded issues isnt very 40k

[signal bramble]

The senate is basically dead at this point anyway since Gman took over.

[north lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-i-am-the-senate-gif-10270130

I need to learn to photoshop

[meager zinc]

Wait didnt guilliman make like a imperium 2 when the galaxy got split in half or something?

[storm jungle]

The Imperium is the way it is entirely of its own volition and faults. Black Library authors hammer that nail home in literally half the books they write.

That was the Heresy

he thought the Imperium was gone so made a Diet Coke Imperium

made Sanguinius the emperor

him as the advisor

the moment he learned everything was fine tho he instantly deconstructed it and went to Terra with the boys for help

[meager zinc]

I mean how did that run? Any better?

[storm jungle]

We cant really tell because it didnt last that long

like i said Guilliman abandoned it the moment he learned the Imperium was actually still kicking

[north lotus]

Hey, in his defense, that is a understandable action.

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah totally

[meager zinc]

I mean guilliman wasnt really happy when he woke up tho.

[storm jungle]

Yeah because the Imperium is a hellscape of its own making

[north lotus]

I get that as well.

[meager zinc]

So im guessing old imperium 2 was pretty similar to imperium 1 back then

[storm jungle]

He literally says why is he still alive after seeing it

[meager zinc]

But like guilliman was like "wtf did yall do to our imperium while i was asleep? Wheres dad???" Right?

[north lotus]

I mean to see everything you fought for disappear in a instant is a entirely understandable reason to be unhappy

[storm jungle]

The Horus Heresy/Great Crusade Imperium was pretty much the same as now minus the religion and A LOT more military strength.

Now its just on life-support and miniature sales boosts

[north lotus]

It was legitimately in a state that could legitimately have defeated chaos if horus hadn’t had a gamer moment

[meager zinc]

but guil was like "dude yall fucked shit up. Bad." And went to his dads throne and was like "i dont wanna talk about it"

Then chaos went super Saiyan and guil hasnt been able to get anything done since

[storm jungle]

More or less.

[north lotus]

God I wish the emperor had a text to speech was in the canon to a extent

What I would have given to hear that throneroom conversation

[meager zinc]

Yeah like i seriously feel like hes faking some of this throne thing

Like hes focusing SO hard he cant even talk for like a couple minutes a day? Cmon bro

[storm jungle]

Hes not, its more that the Emperor needs to stay nerfed for plot reasons.

He could realistically psychically communicate any of his needs to anyone but doesnt because "plot excuse here"

All you get is him sending visions to some random people in the setting atm and thats kind of it.

[north lotus]

And even then, you have the fun case of having to explain those visions

[meager zinc]

I mean id be cooler with the emperor waking up than i was with... Ugh... Primaris marines

[storm jungle]

Yeah Big E waking up is too big of a change

it wont happen for now at least until 40k needs another marketing shakeup like Gathering Storm

[meager zinc]

Primaris marines were too dumb of a change for me im sorry

[north lotus]

I agree, it’s kinda stupid.

[meager zinc]

Space marines? Toughest soldiers humanity has. So we made the marines Of the spaces marineszzszszzzz

Throw your stumpy crap marines in the trash kids

These new marines browse TIKTOKKKK

[north lotus]

Battletech doesn’t have this issue thanks to allowing substitutes

You have old models of a thing you like? You can use them, just you have to have some sort of visual difference between them so you can’t claim that X is a Y when the situation is convenient

[slender orchid]

40k doesn't either (yet). and when OG marines eventually do get phased out... just proxy them as the new primaris. Some people just are dramatic. Like the kids who trashed or burned their Fantasy armies after End Times.

[lilac wave]

I think most people can agree, that what they ought to have done if they wanted a new model line was to just make the Primaris as is, but call them regular marines in new armor with new weapons. We know why the did it of course, they wanted to explain why the new models are big and cool looking while the old models are sort of lame and stumpy by comparison.

[vital kernel]

Cawl having improved every aspect of space marines and every space marine vehicle and even having singlehandedly revised Space Marine combat doctrines is just a bit too much at once.
I could have swallowed if he simply came up with a new and improved armor pattern, maybe a superior boltgun. Give the New Armor refractor shields, all fine.
But him having a superior option for the entire Astartes Arsenal, Astartes included, and all of that ready for mass production of a galactic scale.
Sorry but thats pure trash writing. GW overdid it with Primaris, and it absolutely poisoned Guillimans return.

[slender orchid]

Only the most apocryphal old lore had the Emperor create the Astartes single handed. He almost always had a team even in old stuff. So a member of that team, working around the clock, with near unlimited resources, for 10 THOUSAND years making MINOR improvements isn't exactly far fetched

[meager zinc]

I agree, like make it a new mark 10 armor or something.

[vital kernel]

It was also to sell Marines again to the same people who already had a marine army and possibly another one for 30k

[lilac wave]

They could have sold marines again just the same. They could have still called them intercessors or whatever, all that would change is the lore. It was a poor, obviously rushed decision that was probably born out of compromise between 10 different people.

[vital kernel]

intercessors is such a stupid word

[meager zinc]

Yeah but how he alone was able to keep such a massive, game changing project a secret from such close minded organizations like the inquisition for so long?? Its just sloppy writing to me.

[vital kernel]

Tactical Marines.
Unf, that word had meaning, that word made it unmistakeably clear: these guys are ready for anything, anywhere anytime. They got everything they need.

[slender orchid]

No? The Inquisition doesn't know jack or shit about the goings on of the Mechanicus. Especially on Mars. Cawl zooming around on his special Ark Mechanicus is a very believable thing, since tons of Archmagi do it.

[vital kernel]

Intercessors.
What are they exactly, some sort of interception squad, airborne? Successors or something?
Oh they have rifles that shoot really good, amazing, but the heavy weapons come in another squad? well that sounds inconvenient.

[meager zinc]

Or how chaos didn't throw a wrench into the primaris project, when a STC blueprint for a coffee maker can bring a damn daemon prince outta the woodwork

[slender orchid]

Do... do you not know that it is an actual word?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intercession

[lilac wave]

Intercession is an English word that means something.

[slender orchid]

Noun of intercession is intercessor. One who intercedes.

[vital kernel]

The Mechanicus has it's own inquisitors, and comparable institutions to root out tech heresy.

[slender orchid]

Literally in the link

[vital kernel]

So they intercede. Amazing.

[meager zinc]

Are they called Mechaninquisitors?

[slender orchid]

Look, if you just want to whine, do it. But being pointlessly rude or arguing in circles doesn't look good. It is fine not to like stuff. But you keep making statements that it isn't a word, or doesn't mean anything, or was badly written. When there are definitions that have existed for decades. Dozens of novels that led to the moment.

Multiple militaries, in real ACTUAL life use the term intercessor for vehicles, normally planes or ships

[vital kernel]

Do you not recognize the difference between "tactical marines" and "intercessors", or what the paradigm shift in tone and theme related to Space Marines as a faction means?

[slender orchid]

Do you not? The point was Guilliman. The Legion Breaker. Remaking... THE LEGIONS. Where each squad had ONE job.

Which is what Primaris do

[brittle slate]

Well it’s a satire of all the worst periods and people in human history

You can still draw comparison

[vital kernel]

That is a really far grasp to find narrative meaning in something.

[brittle slate]

And real world history is still very often worse

[north lotus]

Kulak hunting anyone?

[unique berry]

🍿

[slender orchid]

Its really not. Since multiple characters explicitly call him out for it in the Dawn of Fire books

Annnnd the Custodes books

Annnnd multiple people reference Imperium Secundus and are alarmed he is trying to take over the Imperium.

[brittle slate]

Aquisitors*

[storm jungle]

To add:

the Imperium "not being comparable" to us is a weird example because they literally do very human things

[arctic talon]

By being an archmagos he has 0 oversight lol

[storm jungle]

but thats just my 2 cents

[lilac wave]

A stern warning to avoid socialism and beautiful, greased up Persian men.

[unique berry]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-are-we-the-baddies-surprised-gif-19176339

[brittle slate]

Not very smart in the long run.

[arctic talon]

Like

There’s 0 oversight for most archmagos’s of the admech

They end up doing whatever the hell they want in their own labs and manufacotrums

[vital kernel]

But he didn't remake the Legions. Primaris are not the new Legions nor do they operate like the old Legions. They are still in Chapters.
Squads only do one job now because that's easier for new players to learn when their tactical marine squad doesn't need to do 4 jobs on a battlefield.

[arctic talon]

Also yeah the primaris don’t operate like legions

[north lotus]

Remember, the mechanicus has the perfect answer to the ancient “you and what army” question

[arctic talon]

It’s just bulking up the imperiums chapter count

[slender orchid]

He did though. The unnumbered sons were deployed EXACTLY like legions, en masse.

[north lotus]

“And where’s your’s”

[brittle slate]

You can’t mix tabletop decisions and lore, bud

[arctic talon]

Also yeah breaking into Cawls lab is a terrible idea lol

[slender orchid]

It was only after Indomitus that he re-divided them into chapters

[arctic talon]

He has so many servitors

And so many skitarii and a ton of tech priests

All of who are prolly fanatics

[north lotus]

I was saying that the logistics make it a bad idea

[arctic talon]

Oh

Well yeah that also lol

[unique berry]

How dare u calling the Mechanicus fanatics

[arctic talon]

Cawl’s got his arc mechanicus, a bunch of ships and his labs on mars

[north lotus]

They aren’t, at all, for Blake’s sake…

[arctic talon]

And breaking into any of them would be political suicide

For whoever does it

And also actual suicide

[brittle slate]

Cawl needs to die already…

[arctic talon]

For what reason

[brittle slate]

He might be the most OP character in 40k

[arctic talon]

Not really lol

[unique berry]

I know just messing around jesus boomer

[arctic talon]

In terms of actual combat he’s

Not that strong

[brittle slate]

Screw combat

[vital kernel]

And those were dissolved once he had time to do all that organisation.

[arctic talon]

And political influence as well

[brittle slate]

Guy has solved every problem there is

[arctic talon]

Not true

[north lotus]

YOU QUESTION THE NAME OF THE MIGHTY JEROME BLAKE?! NUCLEAR FIRE UPON YEA

[brittle slate]

Tyranids? Ah, no worries. We can just terraform planets

[arctic talon]

The imperium was able to terraform planets before Cawl

[brittle slate]

Space marines? How about endless vats of space marines 2.0

[arctic talon]

It just took tons of time

[north lotus]

Battletech joke, sorry

[arctic talon]

And it’ll still prolly take a few eternities

[brittle slate]

Sotha can come back in 70 years

[lilac wave]

Cawl won't die for any reason, not while he's got a relatively recent $60 model.

[brittle slate]

New bolters? Check

New lasguns? Check

[arctic talon]

He hasn’t made any new lasguns what

[north lotus]

New plasma guns

[brittle slate]

New tanks? New innovation for a stagnant imperium?

New outlooks, space marine 3.0

New suits of armor

[north lotus]

New plasma guns alone is a significant advantage

[brittle slate]

New armor for the suits of armor

[slender orchid]

Okay Wobbie. Time to meet Stone.

[arctic talon]

His new plasma guns are highly unstable

Compared to the older ones

They actually fucking explode

[brittle slate]

Like… dude, you’re fucking up the vibe

[crisp heath]

Was reading about Henry Cavill’s move to Amazon for warhammer from a Wonderwall article and the phrase “Warhammer Cinematic Universe” was used

[brittle slate]

Ugh

[arctic talon]

The imperium is still in a state of decay

[vital kernel]

For once I find myself agreeing with greebles. Cawl should disappear, better yet he should never have existed.

Instead of Cawl, you should have had a whole subfaction of Admech with a hundred or so high profile Magos, but not one guy and his fanclub.

[brittle slate]

It’s a Christmas miracle

[brittle slate]

And make it a serious problem with the rest of the mechanicus

[arctic talon]

There should be more people in Cawls ring and not in Cawls ring

[slender orchid]

How'd that end for you again? ohhhhh rigggghhtttt

[arctic talon]

We don’t have any admech characters

Other then him

Or rather on the tabletop

[brittle slate]

People used to get shot for changing the mirror alignment on a lasgun

[north lotus]

Blake posting is fun.

[brittle slate]

Make the imperium oppressive again.

[arctic talon]

The imperium still is oppressive as hell

Supporting Cawl usually results in your death lol

[brittle slate]

Eh. It’s not.

[arctic talon]

99% of the time you’ll get all your implants ripped out

1% of the time you’ll just get murdered

[brittle slate]

Guilliman: “what the hey! Your worshipping my dad as a god!? But… I mean, okay”

[slender orchid]

I will forcefully Freedom you, Federated Suns style. Then crush you under nepotism, capitalism, and media that aggressively proclaims me your hero.

[arctic talon]

He literally hates it

[brittle slate]

He literally decided it was fine.

[arctic talon]

The only reason he doesn’t get rid of it is because the imperium would fall apart without it

Yeah

Because without it the imperium would fucking collapse

[brittle slate]

Yup. Bend the knee

Sell your morality and convictions

That’s not 40k

[slender orchid]

He DID hate it.... recently he read Lorgar's original Lectio Divinatus

[brittle slate]

That’s… I mean, that’s just modern politics

[brittle slate]

And… still did nothing

[north lotus]

It’s more so the fact you can safely use standard shot without it having a risk of exploding

[arctic talon]

They never did that in lore

You know that right

[vital kernel]

There should have been serious trouble on Mars with the whole Primaris shit.
Like, have anyone involved absolutely exiled from Mars. Even got a name for your Admech subfaction: "Exiles of Mars"

[arctic talon]

Only if you overcharged them

Or turned off safety features

[north lotus]

I thought that was true in the old lore or crunch

[arctic talon]

Crunch yes

Lore no

[slender orchid]

I mean, he got saved by an IMPERIAL SAINT. Then had the godlike power of his father burn away a warp-god's realm, saving him from the brink of damnation. He is kind of questioning whether E is in fact, a God

[arctic talon]

Cawl isn’t allowed on mars lore wise anyways

[brittle slate]

Again… sacrificing their moral outlook for the easier path

[arctic talon]

After he pulled his fucking primaris stunt

[north lotus]

Ah yes, the bush approach…how’d that go again?

[brittle slate]

That isn’t 40k

[arctic talon]

Cawl pretty much has no where to go forgeworld wise

[brittle slate]

Heck, people should have found out about the ynnari and tried to burn him at the stake

Cawl is literally wielding the equivalent of god tiered science and no one even does anything about it

[slender orchid]

Cawl is the Runner up for Fabricator General, the second most powerful and influential Magos in the Mechanicum. The son of the Omnissiah is personally bankrolling and protecting him to boot. Who, exactly, has the clout to remotely stub his toe?

[brittle slate]

And yet

[north lotus]

Oh right.

[vital kernel]

Oh Right, the Ynnari. That is something GW hasn't forgotten about at all.

[brittle slate]

Lol

[arctic talon]

Cawl doesn’t want to be the fabricator general

And he’s far from having a lot of political power

[lilac wave]

How would they find out?

[arctic talon]

^this also

I highly doubt any of the ultramarines would spill it

[slender orchid]

stares at New Avalon, currently in Kurita hands in modern lore....... I want to earn a Dragonslayer medal realllllll bad.

[brittle slate]

The… opposition to all of those claims.

[vital kernel]

Thats the problem. Cawl as a character is a recipe for shit.

[arctic talon]

Cawl needs more substance

[brittle slate]

It was a public crowning

[arctic talon]

He’s got nothing rn

[slender orchid]

He openly demands Guilliman MAKE him Fabricator General. Multiple Times.

[arctic talon]

That’s Cawl inferior

Different thing

[slender orchid]

It is Cawl.

[arctic talon]

And Cawl straight up says to guilliman he doesn’t want it

After asking about it

So no

Cawl doesn’t want to be the fabricator general

[vital kernel]

There are countless Forgeworlds who would be openly defiant to a Fabricator General Cawl

[arctic talon]

Cawl inferior

[brittle slate]

… like, Calgar should have been “uh likewhatthefuck?!?”

[north lotus]

In my defense, I’m a FWL fan, I just like occasionally shitposting about Blake. But I’d love to help on the dragon slayer medal.

[arctic talon]

Yeah the mechanicus would literally collapse into civil war

If Cawl became fabricator general

[brittle slate]

… which they should

Which he should also want

[final solar]

Worked well the last time

[arctic talon]

Cawl doesn’t give a shit about politics in the mechanicus

Is the thing

[brittle slate]

Copping out and making it Cawl inferior is… a cop out

[final solar]

This

[arctic talon]

He does whatever he wants

And ignores the consequences

[slender orchid]

Hey, your people make my favorite Mech. The Awesome is best. Also make the new King Crabs and Black Knights. Just deliver me some

[arctic talon]

And let’s everyone else around him get hit by them

[brittle slate]

But the fabricator general has complete access to the scope of mechanicus knowledge

And of course, the vault

And the throne

[arctic talon]

Cawl still doesn’t want it

He doesn’t want to be tied down

And he also knows he’d get assassinated most likely

[brittle slate]

Whatever- it’s a flat tire of a narrative

[final solar]

And also bears the responsibilities that come with it

[vital kernel]

To be fair, the Admech is the one faction that could feasibly break apart and still function, because each Forgeworld and it's domain are already effectively independent, only paying lipservice to Mars.

[arctic talon]

There’s 0 reason Cawl would want to be fabricator general

[brittle slate]

There was when he was first introduced

[arctic talon]

There’s a few minor forge worlds that are super aligned with mars

Voss prime

[brittle slate]

They’ve walked it completely back since the great work

[arctic talon]

And triplex phal

[vital kernel]

Their subservice to Mars is more theological in nature than born from necessity.

[arctic talon]

Both are associated with Mars

[lilac wave]

Some ultramarines, an inquisitor and Cawl isn't really public.

[final solar]

Doesn’t that come up in The Great Work? Mind you, that’s the only book with him i’ve read.

[brittle slate]

Either way- the lack of conflict is making 40k really vanilla as of late

[arctic talon]

Voss prime is literally known as the right hand of mars

[north lotus]

The problem with becoming fab general is now ALLLL the eyes are now on you.

[arctic talon]

I’d say forge world Metallica blowing up is pretty big

Along with house raven falling

[brittle slate]

At the end of the universe*

[final solar]

Just wait until the Lion returns

[arctic talon]

And most of imperial secundus being chaos controlled

[brittle slate]

It really isnt

Like, I know they use adjectives

Which is nice and everything

[arctic talon]

Also the nids broke the octarius quarantine

As well lol

[vital kernel]

Fab General also has political responsibilities.

[north lotus]

Exactly.

[brittle slate]

But actual credible examples of anything happening in Nihilus that’s noteworthy has withered on the vine

[arctic talon]

Mostly political Responsibilities tbh

Very few actual ones

I’d say 2 major codex sub factions almost being exterminated is noteworthy

[vital kernel]

When the Rift broke and Emp almost died on Terra the Fab General personally checked on the golden Throne.
Can you imagine Cawl being that responsible?

[arctic talon]

He wouldn’t be

[brittle slate]

That seems boldly irrational

Something Cawl isn’t

He jumps over the cultural shortcomings of 40k

But there are no drawbacks

The drawbacks should be “but that’s heresy”

Instead it’s just “I guess our bolters are 30 inches now”

[vital kernel]

That is another overlooked thing, everyone always talks about how the Custodes are the most trusted of the Emperors Servants, but conveniently ignores the gaggle of Techpriests who try to keep his chair running 24/7

[brittle slate]

Currently failing*

[arctic talon]

There’s also the terra watt clan

If they’re still around

[vital kernel]

well they've been failing at it for 10k years now which is an achievement that ought to be recognized at least

[arctic talon]

They’re at least trying lul

The fabricator general is dead as well in modern time

So that’s a pretty major development most people don’t know about

[vital kernel]

I always imagine that scene from Apollo 13 when I think of the Admech "fixing" the golden throne

just that it's an infinite chain of stuff inexplicably breaking and finding makeshift fixes for them

https://tenor.com/view/apollo-13-tom-hanks-can-gif-23718160

[north lotus]

You are going to owe me at least a couple penetrators for that

[slender orchid]

😳

[north lotus]

And a cataphract to.

[north lotus]

Pic related http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/c/c3/PTR-Penetrator.png?timestamp=20110721182752

[vital kernel]

I mean I enjoy Battletech lore myself, but you gotta admit some of the mechs just look straighg up goofy.

[fresh sun]

boot too big for he goddamn feet

[slender orchid]

I know what one is, but cmon, had to run with the joke when the first thing you ask for is a Penetrator

And Cataphracts are the products of those FILTHY, SNEAKY, Capellan scum.

Wouldn't trust one not to collapse underneath me. Here, have a nice Enforcer instead

Or a Hatchetman

[slender orchid]

Dude. The old TROs have some DUMB looking mechs. Its great.

[north lotus]

It’s a early post tukkayid machine when people were shitting bricks after giving the clans pause, I can understand the awkwardness…also it has the advantage of confusing people trying to lead for it.

[north lotus]

How bout’ a centurion, love those things despite the jamomatic autocannon

[slender orchid]

All you have to do is replace that Pontiac with a Luxor 20 AC. Then 3 SRM 6s. Profit

[north lotus]

Hell, I got my first bondsman with one!

[vital kernel]

Anyone think geedubs will release an Imperator Titan for the Titanicus game?

[slender orchid]

I hope so. I would almost immediately buy 2

[north lotus]

Will it not cost less than crack?

[vital kernel]

Why 2?

[slender orchid]

My painting skills are awful. So I keep one on a shelf as grey plastic, part of the collection. The other gets painted and used in games.

Most big centerpiece minis get that treatment from me.

[vital kernel]

Isn't even a shoddy paintjob preferrable to grey plastic?

[slender orchid]

Nah. I like Grey plastic the same way I like plain marble statues.

But I ENJOY painting, even if I suck. And everyone else seems to prefer painted minis. So I play with my terrible painted minis.

[vital kernel]

you could like spray them white then throw a wash on them for that actual marble look tho

[slender orchid]

Favorite armies out of all the ones I own are Gloomspite Gitz (squigs), Genestealer Cults, Imperial Guard, and Kharadron Overlords. Have like 14 damn armies.

[north lotus]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/735941248036241489/999076614379937882/unknown.png

[north lotus]

This yours?

[slender orchid]

lol, no. way too good to be mine

[north lotus]

Ah, I just was doing a quick server history check to see

[slender orchid]

That person has glare highlights on their optics. I think I posted that as a meme or something way back

[vital kernel]

14 Armies? Do you live in a warehouse?

[north lotus]

Also what’s your bank account number.

[slender orchid]

2500~ square foot house, 2 floors plus a fully finished basement. By myself.

Also have a large shed

[vital kernel]

I have trouble finding room for a small army of Marines, two Knights and like 50 Skitarii

[slender orchid]

bruh. I have spent something stupid irresponsible like 20k on plastic toys over the past 6 years.

[north lotus]

This is a joke, pls don’t I have worse spending control

[vital kernel]

had to put up shelves all across my living room wall to display them

[slender orchid]

I have my study next to the bedroom. 6 bookshelves of mostly minis with my writing computer. Plus the entire basement is board games and miniatures. Have a pool table with a custom wood insert that turns it into a 4 foot by 8 foot table to play on.

[vital kernel]

I suppose if there is no missus or kids to dispute your hobbies territorial claims, that is quite a bit of room.

Do you write lore for your own dudes, or do you run them as established entities?

[north lotus]

I have gun autism as well as tabletop autism, so I chose the former mostly

[vital kernel]

guns are an expensive hobby, I know

at least plastic crack stays on your shelf, but brass crack literally burns money

[slender orchid]

Mostly write my own lore, even if just for myself. Don't like using named characters in armies for that reason, no matter how strong they are. Sometimes run campaigns for the local stores (got sinpired by MWG deathwatch, yogvir and tor, etc). DM RPGs too.

[north lotus]

Plastic crack is at least not situationally in flux.

[slender orchid]

I only own my rifle, shotgun, and three handguns. Enough for me. Edit: And my bolt action hunting rifle I guess

[vital kernel]

do all 14 of your armies get lore from you?

I mainly collect world war boltaction rifles, got like 12 all in all plus a semi auto SKS-45, my precious

[slender orchid]

Pretty much yeah. My Genestealer Cult and Imperial Guard especially have a bunch of fluff. Made a world, it's entire geography, history, place in the imperium, connections to larger society, culture, fauna, etc.

[vital kernel]

MAS-36 2x
Mosin Nagant 2x
Berthier M16 1x
Steyr M95 2x
Winchester 1894 I think or 92 not sure off the top of my head.
ans a couple of others, they escape me at 2am

[slender orchid]

In Ultima Segmentum, part of the Ultramar Auxilia. Genestealer cult travels incognito as the labor caste assigned to the regiment, etc.

[brittle slate]

Funny enough marble statues used to be painted

[slender orchid]

Most of those rifles are 700+$, yeah? so they could be armies instead. Comparable XD

[slender orchid]

Yes. But they looked HIDEOUS. much like my minis

I guess Mosins WERE cheap before everyone and their mother started buying them

[vital kernel]

Hm nice, we think alike it seems.
I fluffed out a Star System in the Ultima Segmentum with a Fortress World and Basilika Astra aligned Forge Moon orbiting it. fluffed that neck of the woods out in meticulous detail, including a Titan demi-Legio, two Questor Mechanicus Houses, Imperial Guard Regiments and an Ordo Reductor Skitarii Legion.

[vital kernel]

Could be, but rifle take less space!

[slender orchid]

🤓 👏

The armies don't get displayed. Again, hate my paintjobs. Armies sit in cardboard or plastic boxes, stacked in corner or on bookshelf.

Just ferried to and from stores to play

Or opened when friends come

[vital kernel]

One of them is a polish 1953 carbine, not very impressive, but the other one is a genuine 1943 wartime production rifle with 1950s arsenal refurbish, and you can really tell the difference.

[slender orchid]

Nice. Have a buddy who collects Mosin's specifically. His crown jewel is a Finnish WW2 with a hex receiver i think.

[vital kernel]

those are in high demand

[slender orchid]

looks around Guys, I THINK we derailed the lore thread.

[vital kernel]

lore

[slender orchid]

We were arguing or debating about the joys of Primaris, Cawl, and stuff. Skub was being generated. Like talking about the End Times with two guys who play Warhammer 9th age in the corner of one of the nearby FLGSs. While I pullout my Age of Sigmar stuff.

[vital kernel]

I have fond childhood memories of Fantasy. AoS goes against my grain tbh.

[slender orchid]

Those two guys. I give them grief, but weirdly treasure them sitting in the corner, on their square bases, still playing Bretonnians vs Chaos.

[vital kernel]

A dying breed.

[slender orchid]

I love the books of Fantasy. Had just scrimped and scrounged and bought some of the very first army packs from Mantic to play as Dawi and Orcs when the End Times hit. My first actual armies I owned. Before that had to borrow from friends or the store collections.

[vital kernel]

dark days

[slender orchid]

AoS was a shitshow starting out. But it is gradually getting in full swing. This next wave of books really promises to bring it home into Warhammer territory with a bigger focus on mortals. People crusading out of the strongholds established by stormcasts, frontier cities and kingdoms being annihilated as Sigmar's knights can't be everywhere, good stuff. Gloomspite and Scourge of Fate are my favorite two books so far.

[vital kernel]

Yeah, the realms were straight up cartoonish and the premise was idiotic. I haven't paid any attention to it since then but the style of models and art I've seen recently looks more decent.

[slender orchid]

Gloomspite is told from the perspective of a band of sellswords in Aqshy (realm of fire). They go to a major city to recuperate from a mission they failed, and warn them. City is just mortals. Get attacked by the Gloomspite Gitz. Borderline a horror novel, as it gets dark and vicious real fast. Goblins are back to Skarsnik levels of cunning and brutality. City falls.

Scourge of Fate is a Varanguard book. basically, a knight of Chaos trying to join Archaon's personal army. His last test is to kill a King and collapse a kingdom into Chaos. Book shows that Stormcast are spread so thin that they can only spare a single champion to help some kingdoms. It is... not a happy ending book.

[vital kernel]

That Age of Sigmar aint going like he planned it seems.

[slender orchid]

The Iron Dragon Kharadron Overlords books are nice too. Two books about a very run of the mill Kharadron crew trying to make ends meet. Get thrown into absurd and awful situations.

Yeah. It still highlights the original novels, but makes them make sense. Like if 40k had actually started with us reading the Great Crusade.

It would have seemed like "This Imperium and the Emperor are overpowered and busted"

AoS is getting there

[vital kernel]

Though it sounds to me like BL is once again left holding the bag after GW just fucks up some major plot developments to sell fresh plastic

[slender orchid]

Or, that it takes time to properly frame and develop a setting

And doing any kind of development even slightly wrong can be comparable to tectonic plates shifting.

i.e. it feels like an earthquake and upsets people

[vital kernel]

Well, certainly, but if you torpedo an old, beloved and long established setting you better have something adequate ready to replace it.
AoS was not that.

[slender orchid]

fantasy was almost 40 years old, with over 50 novels and dozens of codexes. There is no way to to have something ready to equal that. It was always going to have to be something it grew into

but the Old World was more or less dead already. Sales figures, plotlines, etc. Even in the most hopeful books the world teetered on the edge from a dozen different threats.

[vital kernel]

Yeah but someone at GW thought it was a great idea.
A lot of people didn't like it, can you blame them?
If I dozer your Porshe and replace it with an aluminium frame that's missing 3 wheels, would you thank me for providing you with this great opportunity to have a new improved but distinctly different car in 10 years?

and 3 years after destroying your old car I will release Porshetide, a game in which you can experience how great of a car your porshe used to be

[slender orchid]

Archaon. Greenskins. Skaven. Druchi. Dawi Zarr. Collapsing ley-lines. Advancing Chaos Wastes. Pathways of the Old Ones. Unravelling of the Vortex. Dark Grail awakening. Belakor Free. Short of having some serious nonsense (suspiciously like what happened with Guilliman and Primaris in 40k) happen in Fantasy (Sigmar being reborn and kicking ass to give breathing room, dawi and elgi making peace, etc) there was no space to tell any big stories that DIDN'T end in "World is dead", or "Faction is Dead"

[vital kernel]

A corner GW wrote themself into.

[brittle slate]

Damn. That’s 0-2 today.

[brittle slate]

0-3 what the shit is happening.

[slender orchid]

But, It looks like Old World is getting reborn, starting in the age of Magnus the Pious. Taking Horus Heresy's place as "the ForgeWorld game", as Horus Heresy becomes a mainline plastic game.

[brittle slate]

Because of AoS’s lackluster following and the curbstomp that is total war

We’re also finally getting Asian representation in the old world. Completely made by the total war team and it is glorious

[slender orchid]

AoS is posting great sales figures and growing, lol

[brittle slate]

I see the quarterlies as a shareholder. It is lackluster.

[vital kernel]

There are thousands of people who got into the setting through Vermintide and the Total War games just to discover the world they are into no longer exists on the tabletop.

[brittle slate]

Especially when pitted against 40k

Which is also lackluster when compared to their licensing.

[vital kernel]

Marketting cathay plastic to the chinese market is a potential gold exploit

if they bite, but they'll have to strike whilst the iron is hot

[slender orchid]

Okay. Now you are just full of it. They have experienced growth EVERY quarter, especially from AoS, for 5 years. It compromises something like 30% of sales now.

[brittle slate]

China is the throne of 3d printing too

[brittle slate]

… do you see sales numbers in your life?

[slender orchid]

Do you?

[vital kernel]

here come the spreadsheets

40k-lore-and-economics-chat

[slender orchid]

lol

[brittle slate]

Did I stutter?

[brittle slate]

And I won’t do that here.

[slender orchid]

Just your brain.

Again, not liking something is fine. But weirdly trying to claim facts say something other than they do is just... bizarre.

[brittle slate]

Another fucking fan.

[vital kernel]

The irony of a literal GW shareholder being Tau player is not lost on me.

[brittle slate]

Tau being one of the major model sellers after SM? Yeah, it shouldn’t.

AoS has always been secondary to the 40k.

In terms of sales. And if you want to learn about the wealth drawn in from licensing… literally google it.

[vital kernel]

Now I can claim GW shareholders artificially inflate Tau sales numbers and theres nothing you can do about it.

[brittle slate]

Yes, the wonders of google.

Archaic and strange are the ways to do some basic research

Well. 1-3. And this one was low hanging fruit cholo. You were doing so well.

[slender orchid]

That is like a 40 year old world tier athlete boasting they can beat a middle schooler. That the middle schooler is even competing is the impressive part.

[vital kernel]

I mean all one has to do is look at the 5 new Space Marine boxsets being announced and there shouldn't really be any question as to what rakes in the money.

[brittle slate]

… boasting… this is more like me telling you the curvature of the earth and you’re insisting this is all a billiards board.

[slender orchid]

K

You literally just compared a 7 year old game to a 40 year old game. And acted like it was some statement of the 7 year old game's failure that it ONLY made half the sales of the 40 year old game

but sure

[brittle slate]

Literally licensing… but sure kids, you be proud of your… whatever it is you do.

[slender orchid]

Don't worry, I understood you meant as far as the tabletop went

[vital kernel]

I don't disagree with you on that. Just that the main source of plastic sales is SM paypiggies.

[brittle slate]

… like, just take the enthusiasm you have jousting with me and read any of the annual reports. They even have a summary page.

I’m moving on.

[vital kernel]

Aw cmon Greebly, I was just messing with you. I won't bring up Damocles even.

[brittle slate]

That’s like someone bringing up the time they chewed their own tongue and thought it was poetry.

[vital kernel]

I just find it hilarious the biggest Tau FC fan is also a GW shareholder.

[brittle slate]

My day job is even better.

[vital kernel]

Let me guess

you work in a GWorkshop-shop

[brittle slate]

Nope.

Moving on.

[slender orchid]

Even better than Damocles, Tychonis is fun to bring up. Two squads of 5 Deathwatch take on an entire Tau Garrison in pitched combat. Multiple tanks and battlesuits.

[vital kernel]

don't leave me high and dry after hyping up your mysterious job like thar.

[slender orchid]

Tau giving humans and Tau to Genestealers in experiments.

[brittle slate]

Clearly not a Vect fan.

[brittle slate]

I’m down.

You’re talking about the Un-Tau I’m assuming?

Or the inquisition working alongside the earth caste operation

Or the Velk’han who solved the genestealer kiss.

Or… we can talk about this:

[vital kernel]

Rather not

look what they did to my boy

[slender orchid]

I see a self deluded CSM and his tiny Chaos familiar. What is there to talk about? He has a higher body count of loyal Imperial subjects than most Chaos Champions

But hey, at least CSM get Primaris too

[vital kernel]

if primaris are incorruptible, wouldnt the Dark Angels immediately repent their treason and be good?

[slender orchid]

They aren't?

To whit, I think the only beings in the Imperium that have been claimed to be un-corruptible are the Custodes. Because of whatever the Emperor does to their souls.

[vital kernel]

I don't really care for primaris.

[brittle slate]

They fixed his gun

Gave him a hat

[vital kernel]

a little bit

They've been decent on the hat front ever since Roboute got one tbh

[unique berry]

I would add Grey Knights but I heard a storie of a corrupt Knight that made it through Slaaneshs trial thing and got corrupted anyway somehow

[slender orchid]

The Grey Knight trilogy uh.... shows this not to be the case. Where multiple demons try to posses, or outright do possess Custodes in the Heresy and get rendered powerless or state they could not control them or corrupt them

[vital kernel]

I'm more interested in wether the Lion actually returns soonish

[echo vault]

Unpopular opinion: Angron attempted to conquer Nuceria better than Curze ""ruled"" nostramo

[vital kernel]

both of them are complete failures

[echo vault]

Willing to die to end slavery is more noble than skinning the entire workforce of a McDonald's because they weren't at FDA standards

[slender orchid]

Curze fixed Nostramo though. Before Big E showed up. It only back slid once he left. Angron was about to die.

[echo vault]

He only fixed it because if you mentioned the phrase night haunter it was enough to cause mass pants shitting

That's not really fixing it or even ruling it

[vital kernel]

Angron was arguably not at fault for getting fucked up, Nuceria was just a shit place.
Curze was a retard all by himself.

[slender orchid]

Point: If that had been maintained for another generation or two, for the old violent gang ways to die out, then the new generations would have grown up lawful and it would have worked

[echo vault]

Angron was suicidal after being found by the emperor hence his inevitable slide to chaos

He wanted to die so he just bullied his son's into getting butchers nails

[slender orchid]

The weird plothole with Angron is WHY DID THE EMPEROR LET IT SLIDE?

[echo vault]

No clue tbh, the dornian heresy was cool as fuck for showing a scenario where Horus and the emperor came down to nuceria to fight with angron

[vital kernel]

The World Eaters were seduced by the promise of a lobotomy.

[slender orchid]

The Emperor just left the overlords in control. Even with Mortarion he killed the corrupt, chaos tainted overlord. The Emperor could have saved Angron and his people, joined the fight, and won the loyalty of angron and his world.

[echo vault]

That brings a tear to my ducking eye that's so badass

[unique berry]

Yeah I read them always a good read big Custodes fan myself just remembered hearing or seeing a vid about a Grey Knight that made it through those Trials only to "vanish"

[slender orchid]

I heretically love the Dornian Heresy. Guilliman declaring Ultramar independent of the superstitious Imperium, finding the Tau while they are young, and incorporating them into the relative Utopia of Imperium Secundus is great.

[brittle slate]

That’s the implication and a fan favorite

[slender orchid]

Gundam looking SM armor developed by Tau scientists, Squat allies, eldar peace treaties, etc

[brittle slate]

Like how a grey knight ended up in end times fantasy

[echo vault]

It just gets a lil stupid at some points

Too many primachs die tbh

Like the primarchs that die in the og heresy die for a reason in the dornian heresy too many die

[vital kernel]

I think the Emp is quite a bit misunderstood.
When he found Angron in the state he was in(compared to all others an abject failure) he genuinely contemplated culling him on the spot.
Only when he discerned him to be of some use at all did he decide to keep him around.

[slender orchid]

"For a reason" Alpharius and Ferrus Manus don't exactly die for a reason. Ferrus at least sets the tone for the dropsite massacre, but Alpharius dies for.... what?

[brittle slate]

Yick

[vital kernel]

But it should be noted he would not let the nucerians kill Angron before a close examination. Angron was not theirs to kill.

[dusk patrol]

He looks the same as he did just better

[vital kernel]

Werent the Tau pre-stoneage during the Heresy?

[brittle slate]

Not enough primarchs died in OG lore.

[dusk patrol]

Like....if you liked the last model, idk why you'd dislike this one.

[echo vault]

Manus dies as the ending of the tragedy of the friendship between him and fulgrim

[dusk patrol]

Its basically just a model update

[echo vault]

Sanguinius dies due to prophecy, curze killed himself

[brittle slate]

Only thing I don’t like is the face

[echo vault]

Alpharius dies fighting dorn which is whatever there's another one

[vital kernel]

Tbh more Primarchs should have died on both sides during the Heresy.

[slender orchid]

Great, but if he was going to take the chance on keeping Angron around, he should have taken proactive steps. If he ended up killing Angron he easily could have claimed the nails did it. But still had the loyalty of the populace, and of the World Eaters.

[echo vault]

Perturabo essentially being scared to death then being turned to dust by sanguinius is stupid

[unique berry]

They did Ferrus Manus dirty at least he died good

[vital kernel]

If Angron was culled his Legion would soon have followed.

[dusk patrol]

What weirdo wouldnt put the helmet on?

[echo vault]

And at the end you didn't need to kill curse AND Horus AND dorn that's a wombo combi that didn't need to happen

[brittle slate]

It would have been nice if there were only 4/5 primarchs left at all. Now every single one of them is threatening to come back

[echo vault]

Lorgar essentially force ghosting away at the end of age of apostasy makes sense

[brittle slate]

I’m probably going to just take my old one and do magnets.

How else can he give speeches before the game begins.

[slender orchid]

Why? The War Hounds fought with distinction. They only went batshit after the nails.

[echo vault]

Plus the alliances of the chaos God factions makes no sense

Blood angels would be khorne

Imagine they find signus and ally with kabandah

That would be ducking insane

[vital kernel]

2nd and 11th Legion?

[echo vault]

Space wolves being nurgle would be cooler too, it'd make the burning of propsero much more disgusting

[slender orchid]

Strong circumstantial evidence they were folded into the Ultramarines and Word Bearers?

[brittle slate]

Fists too

[vital kernel]

I am losing track of whats even being discussed right now.

[echo vault]

Word bearers just were incestuous that's how they got all those members

[brittle slate]

Pigeons.

[vital kernel]

Word Bearers were such a large Legion because they forgot to actually conquer any worlds.

[echo vault]

They kept having sex

[vital kernel]

And were actively plotting against the Imperium for a good third of the Crusade.

[echo vault]

With each other

[brittle slate]

…

[echo vault]

1/5th

[slender orchid]

Ultramarines and Word Bearers had DRASTICALLY more SM than any other legions. somewhere between 3 and 5 times. Part of it is the Lunar clans revealing that teh legions who helped conquer the moon benefitted from their expertise. The other part of the surplus is insinuated to be left over members of the erased legions

[brittle slate]

https://tenor.com/view/out-disappear-bye-vanished-gif-4932063

[echo vault]

They went to the eye of terror 40 years before the start of the heresy

That's why there's no loyalist word bearers they all got killed

[vital kernel]

Operation Paperclip deal going on at Luna?
Sounds hilarious.

[echo vault]

That's how the word bearers recruit in 40k non stop operation paperclip

[vital kernel]

Would explain why the Ultramarines, Word Bearers and 15th had such a high rate of compatibility and succesful candidates even before meeting their primarchs.

[echo vault]

Too zealous preacher, yoink, slightly religious chapter, yoink

[echo vault]

Same with iron warriors tho

Speaking of iron warriors why do they need to make the daemonculaba when their geneseed is already decently compatible

[vital kernel]

Iron Warriors are a bunch of obtuse assholes.

[slender orchid]

The Lunar clans were the master geneticists. The legions that took Luna for the Emperor at the start of the Great crusade are outright stated to have had their geneseed modified and improved. Horus gets them to do it for the Sons Of Horus prior to the assault on Terra.

[vital kernel]

Doesn't he just employ them to mass produce Astartes?
I am reasonably sure the Luna Wolves were involved in conquering.. Luna yknow

[slender orchid]

Nothing to do with compatibility, entirety to do with hothousing new SM. Put baby in daemonculaba. Get Space Marine out in less than a year.

[unique berry]

[vital kernel]

Go on, name one nice Iron Warrior whos not obtuse.

[unique berry]

Fair

[slender orchid]

Dantioch?

[echo vault]

It was also made by honsou who was made by fabius bile I think

So blame fabius

[vital kernel]

Technicality, would Perturabo consider him an Iron Warrior?

[unique berry]

He was one

[slender orchid]

Yes? He was a Warsmith

[vital kernel]

We have no evidence that he wasn't an obtuse asshole while on active duty.

[unique berry]

Dont start the Iron within Iron without stuff

[vital kernel]

checkmate perty

[slender orchid]

Also, don't know about "nice", but Kalkator?

[vital kernel]

also, despite being somewhat nice, Dantioch is still obtuse.

[echo vault]

He's also old af

[unique berry]

There are always some individuals that are diffrent from there brother Astartes

[vital kernel]

best iron warrior moment in the heresy was Horus disrespecting Perty, and him going just like:

[unique berry]

IW carried the Siege of Terra

[vital kernel]

gonna skulk at pluto

Perturabo would have won the Siege.
Mortarion fucked it up.

[unique berry]

Yeah

[vital kernel]

Lions Gate Spaceport opening up on Horus fleet was such a moment

[unique berry]

I like how he just went
Okay I'll take my stuff an leave

[slender orchid]

You misspelled Fulgrim

[vital kernel]

Fulgrim was barely even a factor in the Siege.
Him running off didn't help, but best case scenario Fulgrim might have finished Sanguinius at the Eternity Gate

[unique berry]

Eh

[slender orchid]

Fulgrim throwing his ENTIRE legion into a TINY meat grinder, letting Dorn counter him was.... absurd. True to the most worthless primarch, but absurd.

[echo vault]

You mean lorgar

[vital kernel]

Absurd does describe the EC at that stage.

[unique berry]

Sanguinus losing to Fulgrim dont know

[slender orchid]

Also, Perty finally getting through the walls, cracking the bastions, then looking around and saying "I won", then leaving the siege is just soooooo on point.

[echo vault]

I would want to see more lore based on the sun killers a sub faction of EC would be cool

[vital kernel]

after kabanda and angron, demon fulgrim would have won

[echo vault]

Just marines who are like what the fuck but are still traitors

[slender orchid]

No. I said most Worthless. Not most whiny or pathetic. Lorgar accomplishes ALOT. You just want him to shut up and die all while he does it.

[vital kernel]

if fulgrim had gone first in line, Sangy would have slaughtered him

[slender orchid]

Dorn kicks Fulgrim's ass. Sanguinius would have mopped the floor with him.

[unique berry]

Wait who do u mean lol

[vital kernel]

Not ultra instinct Demon Fulgrim

And I'm not even talking about mangekyo sharingan fulgrim

[slender orchid]

twitch

[echo vault]

But your mistake of one important thing with the EC

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-brian-wtf-gif-26330931

Space crack

[unique berry]

If a broken dreadnought manages it to fuck up Fulgrim Sanguinius woukd do it easy

[echo vault]

That broken dreadnought also had a virus bomb

Virus bombs fuck anything up

[unique berry]

Well

[slender orchid]

Oh good. We can all recite lyrics, lol

[unique berry]

Lol

I knew about it before this song

[slender orchid]

Same, but the song IS epic

[unique berry]

Yup

[slender orchid]

Months of Shame or Tukayyid are still my favorites by stringstorm

[echo vault]

Virus bombs turned marines into soup in 2 seconds a primarch demon or not would he fucked up

[slender orchid]

Warrior Pope of New Avalon is also kick ass

[unique berry]

Well of cause it destroys pretty much anything

[vital kernel]

I imagine new people looking into this chat to learn about lore and getting scarred for life

[unique berry]

We had some lol

[echo vault]

Virus soup

I mean when death guard marines are turned into split pea soup that's powerful

[crisp heath]

I mean are primarchs even susceptible to the life-eater virus?

[echo vault]

Probably

Living things are susceptible so anything that isn't a necron

[vital kernel]

Except Vulkan perhaps

[echo vault]

Curze probably gave vulkan a virus bomb enema in one of his many vulkan deaths

That's the most fucked up thing he would do

[vital kernel]

because he recovers from being vaporized by Magnus half a dozen times.

[echo vault]

When was Magnus doing anything during the heresy besides sitting around with tzeentch

[vital kernel]

speaking of which, I think the corpse on the golden throne may be Vulkan

[unique berry]

The Hammer of Olympia Novel had some IW overthing and ask what they are doing to they own Planet and people

Just remembered lol

[unique berry]

Plot twist

[vital kernel]

I think the Emperoe doesn't return from the Vengeful Spirit, physically, at all.

[crisp heath]

I actually like the idea that there is no "Emperor" anymore, just the Throne

Same idea as servitors. Plug machine into brain and it gets kinda thinky

[vital kernel]

Since the last we see of Vulkan, and this is spoilers for those who haven't read the last Siege book: after having his regenerative ability partially deleted from his genetic code by Magnus his remains drag themself through the webway back to the gatey and he is missing an eye and an arm, and looks like beef jerky, which is pretty much what the body on the golden throne is depicted as often

then again, Vulkan appears in the Beast skub saga, and he can hardly be two places at once

[unique berry]

But wouldn't the Custodes still fight ath this point in the Webway or was it atfer big E came and ended it?

[vital kernel]

Or can he??

[unique berry]

Another Twin

[vital kernel]

way past, I hope I didn't spoil it for you

[unique berry]

Nah all good just confused sometime lol

[vital kernel]

or is Vulkan 2 actually Manus in blackface?

[unique berry]

Nah Manus got the Legion of Damned

[vital kernel]

man can have some side hustle

[unique berry]

Some extra credit

[echo vault]

Wouldn't they tell it wasn't the emperor

Who's this big beefy gigantic man from nocturne on the golden throne

[hexed shard]

Does the emperor hear prayers?

[dusk patrol]

Sometimes

Results may vary

[hexed shard]

So is he conscious about the stuff that is going on?

[unique berry]

Blessed is the mind too small for doubt

[dusk patrol]

Based off the very little we’ve seen of him trying to focus like that, no

Or it’s fragmented

He’s seemingly both in a lot of pain, struggling with the process of ascending, and he’s just got a lot going on

[echo vault]

If he heard every prayer he'd probably go insane

[hexed shard]

I mean the fact he listens to prayers means that he’s conscious

[solemn pivot]

So.. do you guys think we would ever see any Xenos for future expansions? would that make sense ..

I get if it wouldnt, as it seems that would be full scale war not small unit tactics

[fair current]

It absolutely would make sense, and Genestealer cultists are a very likely threat

Plus, there are unknown xenos being fought in the fringe war

[solemn pivot]

ah ok fair point.. but in the context of the game would say Necrons make sense?

if a planet was a ... what are they called.. corpse world?

tomb world..

[hexed shard]

What are genestealets

[solemn pivot]

Inquisitors don't usualy bother with Xenos either though right?

[hexed shard]

Stealers

[solemn pivot]

A branch of tyranid I think

[unique berry]

Dont think an inquisitor would with a tomb world

[solemn pivot]

the basis for Space Hulk

[unique berry]

They got 3 big Orders
Ordo Xenos taking care of the xenos
Ordo Maleus Demon hunter

Ordo Hereticus heretic hunter

[signal bramble]

There’s an Ordo Xenos.

[solemn pivot]

ahh ok

[signal bramble]

What they do depends on the enemy.

With tomb worlds they usually quarantine them.

[solemn pivot]

what if they didn't know.. suddenly Necrons start popping up in a hive world

[signal bramble]

They’ll evacuate the world if possible.

[unique berry]

Every inquisitors can deal with the situation but they often call other Inqu. from the right Order for help

[solemn pivot]

gotcha

We are more likely to see differing chaos factions though I bet

[unique berry]

I mean a Geenstealer cult would make sense

[solemn pivot]

It would but it seems someone at fat shark has a thing for chaos

[unique berry]

Its easier for Horde games

[dusk patrol]

It’s definitely a possibility

Although I personally think alternative god cults are more likely first

[unique berry]

Eldar Raider would be cool

[dusk patrol]

Probably unlikely

[unique berry]

Sadly

[dusk patrol]

Only Orks and GSC would make much sense imo for being an enemy faction

[unique berry]

Orks would clap us easy lol

We know what they do to Guardsmen

[dusk patrol]

Yeah, often die

Not all Orks are created equal and Guardsmen fight them all the time

It just would have to be a normal smaller waaagghhhh

[noble meteor]

We got a Steel Legion cosmetic set, our odds of surviving an Ork incursion have drastically increased.

[unique berry]

I mean yeah but Steel Legin is a Mech Regiment

But we got Orgryns tho we be fine

[hexed shard]

Are the high lords of terra corrupt? Or do they actually do their jobs as well as they can?

[dusk patrol]

Steel Legion also fight some of the worst Orks since the War of the Beast and Great Crusade

[dusk patrol]

Yes

[unique berry]

Fuck the High Lords

[dusk patrol]

The burnout rate for them is insane for one

Most only last a few years

[unique berry]

But they got minotaur chapter to back them up tho eh

[dusk patrol]

It’s absurdly stressful, endless work which has a lot of politicking to go with it

[unique berry]

Yeah they got a special hatred for em

[signal bramble]

Gsc and nurgle make the most sense for this style of game.

[unique berry]

I would love to fight gsc trying to overtake a Planet

[signal bramble]

“Knowledge is power, power corrupts.”

That’s a good one.

[brittle slate]

best chapter.

bully chapter.

[echo vault]

Hey guys I met honsou on darktide

He said he made the daemonculaba because he was hungry

Case closed

[echo vault]

The daemonculaba is essentially the world's worst haggis

[uncut plover]

So it is....

[brittle slate]

…

[uncut plover]

Curious to all who play Chaos

Does your daemon prince have a backstory of it's own? If so, I'd like to hear what you guys have for em

[arctic talon]

I don't own a daemon prince mini bcs it looks ugly as hell

or rather the old one did

[uncut plover]

What about the newer one?

[arctic talon]

I'll prolly get it when I have the time to dedicate to a project like it

its a pretty big mini

maybe I'll flavor it as my jump pack lord ascending to daemon prince hood

[uncut plover]

normally I'd buy one myself

but I love the one I got right now

I got two variants

one without wings and another with wings

i must say though, I was expecting the box set to sell out fast

up until now, it's still available

I wonder....

[arctic talon]

but I'll prolly write some stuff eventually about it

[upbeat dagger]

so ive been asking about rpgs in here before- i can't find almost anything on Dark Heresy 2e for some reason

compared to 1e

[brittle slate]

maybe put it in gameplay help

[arctic talon]

2e was a lot less popular is why

[upbeat dagger]

most of what ive seen says 2e is better

[arctic talon]

Yeah but 1e was played for a lot longer

so more people are familiar with it

[honest trellis]

Technically improved but less charm to its material

[north lotus]

Additionally less fan content as well

[hexed shard]

How is life for a normal eldar compared to a normal human?

[real helm]

Normal eldar, pretty chill since they live in their mothership craftworlds. Corsair can vary as its pretty much living as a pirate and exposing yourself to many threats. Bad part is when Eldar die their souls get yoinked by slannesh unless they get soulstones or perform an elaborate ritual to trap the souls away into a wraithlord for example to prevent them from feeding she who thirsts (dif name for slannesh)

Only thing worse than the common human is being a Gretchin for the Orks from my point of view

Also since the Eldar are a dwindling race they can’t really afford to lose their people so they stray from heavy conflict, unless GW demands them too

[crisp heath]

Eh I wouldn't say it's chill

[real helm]

Im just a guy who like warhammer not a loremaster so there is possible missinformation there.

[crisp heath]

You have to restrict the way you live your lives to exploring one thing and can't depart from that thing until it's mastered, and if you want to change paths you risk getting vored by space satan (purple flavor)

I don't think an Aeldari paths are like, anywhere near as oppressive as what the Imperium does to their upper middle class, but they definitely aren't happy with the situation

[civic lichen]

I kinda wonder, who give birth to ogryn

[real helm]

Normal humans that were cutt off from the imperium during age of strife

Tons of incest/inbreeding lead to the ogryns.

[celest dome]

Other Ogryn

[real helm]

^ this mate clearly has a bone ‘ead implant

[uncut plover]

Iirc, ogryns are born on planets with stronger gravities, no?

[vital kernel]

Ogryns evolved on high G worlds, but they can be born anywhere.

I imagine natives of high G worlds would consider offplanet Ogryns weak tho

[dusk patrol]

Mostly your mum

[vital kernel]

[echo vault]

Mitosis

[mystic geyser]

A beast. Now I want an ogryn sized chain weapon.

[celest dome]

That's not an Ogryn

[honest trellis]

...combat servitor?

[celest dome]

That's a Goliath

Maybe a Tyrant ?

[shadow plover]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/27/rise-to-the-top-of-house-goliath-with-necromundas-mightiest-self-made-man/

love the metal jaw

[mystic geyser]

He's not an ogryn but goliaths are nearly as big

(..And sometimes bigger)

[celest dome]

Some Goliath are as big

But most are still somewhat smaller

[worldly violet]

I have discovered the true story of what happened cadia. It's all ones guardsman's fault.

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-warhammer40k-warhammer40000-mlp-my-little-pony-gif-13287986

[celest dome]

I hope the next named character would be a Slave Ogryn gang one

Also do we still have no idea on what this mean ?

[mystic geyser]

Test subject.

[vital kernel]

Worlds are contested often enough. Depending on importance.
Hive Worlds are almost always defended and contested, no matter who shows up.

[celest dome]

Damn, now i feel stupid

[barren tapir]

You already asked this...

#40k-lore-chat message

[celest dome]

Yes, and I don't think I got an answer that time

[barren tapir]

You did exactly under the message i referred

[celest dome]

Didn't see it at that time then

[tidal dome]

I mean, considering this dude found it somewhere and considering it's coloration it must be some sort of cutting tool used in manufactorums to cut shit. So I bet it's present in Atoma as well - seems their smelters mainly operate on recycled metal and you need to cut it to workable chunks to stuff into the smelter

But yeah, I'd love myself an Ogryn two-hander. Even if that will be that rebar club that Crusher is using

[celest dome]

A 2h weapon for the Ogryn would be great

[sinful crater]

it feel weird that no 2h weapon for the ogryn is already here

[celest dome]

Like in previous games they get 2h Hammers, 2h Axes, 2h Flail, some lore mention 2h Slab Swords

[sinful crater]

i think they try to make the ogryn more a tank character, the trouble to give him a 2h weapon is it will become strong in melee and hard to kill, it's silly to imagine that the ogryn that often are doing insane stuff with 2h melee stuff are hold back because they want to make the ogryn a tank

[celest dome]

I think the main problem is the reach it would give them

[sinful crater]

probably, but damage wise too

[celest dome]

That can be balanced by making it slow

Or giving it different movement sets

[sinful crater]

that the thing that is a trouble.... why it will be slow?

[celest dome]

Like having 2h Hammer or Axe that is mostly overhead and not as much sweeps

[tidal dome]

I am thinking of that movement style from Dark Souls when your character doesn't meet weapon requirements. Super slow, super-telegraphed swings

Much like what Crushers are doing

[sinful crater]

that the point we talk of a race that is as strong, if not stronger than a space marine in power armor (strenght only)

[celest dome]

2h Sword (And 2h Chain sword) and co-exist with 1h Swords (And 1h Chain Sword)

So I don't think it would be too problematic for it to work

And taking for example Bardin, where you have 1h hammer and 2h Hammer who are both coexisting

[sinful crater]

me i think they don't know how balance the damage it's as simple.

the capacity to have both is not hard like you have said. but they want to stay true to the lore and like i have said all the time, balance must'nt kill the identity of a weapon/race/character

plus we must'nt forget that if the ogryn was hitting too hard, the zealot will be angry about the ogryn that can hit as hard or harder than them

[celest dome]

Look at the Power Maul and the regular Maul, both are the same weapon but they have different move sets

And different damage and stuff

And you have a max cleave and mass anyway

So while the 2h weapon would have more reach, they might would not just be able to push back a horde in ways that the other wouldn't

Like going back to Bardin, with his 1h/2h Hammer, one is better against hordes and its not the 2h one

[signal bramble]

Ogryn can’t really tank at the higher difficulty levels like you think. In fact, the larger hit box is more of a liability than anything. :/

[sinful crater]

i don't think this, i just say they did wanted to make the ogryn more a tank figure and did ignore his natural capacity to hit super hard

[celest dome]

The Ogryn does hit hard, most enemies go flying

It's not just damage that need to be looked at

But also CC

[sinful crater]

if something hit you enough for throw you to the ground, the damage will be there... action -> reaction thing. but it's a game thing, where stagger is not link to damage, i means you can deal stagger without really dealing damage, what can be understand with something with electric power like paul or the crusher... but honestly if you take a door in the face to the point to be yeet... you can be sure your body will have take a lot of damage.

but well balance yaddi yadda...

[celest dome]

Sure, but it's game balance, like it's not much of a problem to be honest

[sinful crater]

fair enough, just me grumbling about the fact that an ogryn will barely deal more damage than a zealot when the arm of the ogryn is as big than the zealot himself hehe

[topaz warren]

I say, fuck balance, it's PVE.

I want my Ogryn to smack a bitch into the Warp.

[analog granite]

Anyone know what weapon these scars are supposed to be from? I see it on a few cosmetics and it's a very specific pattern

[topaz warren]

I want my Psyker to be able to completely destroy a horde in one go.

[sinful crater]

the true question is how is still alive with wound at this place

[signal bramble]

Shrapnel is my immediate guess.

[dusk patrol]

Razor cut

[signal bramble]

It doesn’t look like claw marks.

[sinful crater]

whip?

[brittle slate]

They can

A guy I play with figured out how to do it. It’s awesome but I can’t explain how

[nocturne crest]

So after seeing the new Azrael miniature, I'm wondering if side-mounted bolters are something that previously existed or do the D.A have some unique STCs?

[north lotus]

Probably a adaptation of the bolter for a longer variant of plasma gun. It’s probably a new pattern technically, but it probably is interchangeable in terms of parts.

[vital kernel]

Much like the previous bullpup bolter, it is just Dark Angel artificers having a laff.
You could argue Dark Angels understand the inner workings of Plasma and Bolters better than other chapters, allowing them to do such modifications, but I doubt there would be a special STC for sidemounted bolter mags.
Especially, seeing how most Marines hold their Bolters, those mags would get in the way of their breastplate

[nocturne crest]

But it would make it a pain to reload the bolter aspect.

[north lotus]

Reason I say it’s somewhat special is the shape of the ejection system.

You’re feeding in a straight direction, from 9 o’clock and ejecting out at 3 o’clock.

While with a normal bolter you are loading ammo in at 6 o’clock and ejecting the casings at either 3 or 9 o’clock

As in: you’ve fg42’d your bolter to add a plasma gun to it, good job, you could have just built it off a plasma pistol instead of a of a “rifle” variant

[vital kernel]

It's not really that special. Just a question of how the bolt itself is orientated.

[north lotus]

I’m referring to how the normal bolter ejects from the side while the dark angels one would eject straight up if it were put in a normal bolter style

[signal bramble]

It’s one of the secrets of the dark angels chapter. If you try and find out then Azrael will call Asmodai and make you repent.

https://tenor.com/view/tts-asmodai-repent-make-him-repent-gif-18135020

[north lotus]

That technically does matter, but it’s more from a perspective of a tech marine bitching because he can’t use normal bolter parts on the inside

Aside from the obvious like springs and pins.

[brittle slate]

It occurred to me there’s likely a greater number of artificers in the dark angels than regular chapters who probably keep what they know from the techmarines

If the dark angels used to sport men of iron then they probably have entire mk’s of gear no one’s ever seen or heard of

[dusk patrol]

The different Mks of power armor are pretty well documented

[unique berry]

Wouldnt surprise me at all

[dusk patrol]

They probably have access to super old shit though

Not really clear what they still have from the GC era

But they had some nasty stuff, and at least as we’re told they still have an absurd excess of terminator suits available

We don’t really get much confirmation on other stuff from the GC and Heresy era though

[unique berry]

wouldnt that make them pretty powerful with the old tech

[brittle slate]

Doing a quick google search they also had the ability to uplift older mortals and women to operate at astartes levels of ability (super vague) it’d actually be cool to see them do stuff like this if lion comes back

[dusk patrol]

The only example is Luther really that I’m aware of

Same thing was done to Kor Phaeron

[unique berry]

I remeber they did it to Luthar and other Knight that were to old for the full transformation

[dusk patrol]

If I had to guess it’s an absurdly expensive process

Or was

[brittle slate]

He does it to a bunch of people according to a lore compilation about the heresy FW book

[dusk patrol]

Not even sure if we have any examples post GC

[brittle slate]

Nah

[dusk patrol]

But it was done mostly around then to some of the primarchs besties

And even then not all

[unique berry]

Men we need the Lion back

[dusk patrol]

Like Russ’s whole clan just did the Astartes process like normal

Most died

[storm jungle]

They did it through the use of the most precise and specific surgery tool in the Space Marine creation process:

||plot||

[brittle slate]

Not gonna be 10th feels like

[brittle slate]

With the hot take lol

[dusk patrol]

Also somehow Amon didn’t undergo it

[storm jungle]

[dusk patrol]

The real reason: Writers didn’t think of it

[storm jungle]

^

40k lore is editable af so it comes and goes

[dusk patrol]

They still fuck up Typhus’s origin in some recent books

[unique berry]

Fucking confusing sometimes

[dusk patrol]

It can be but tbh the Typhus thing had to be laziness

[storm jungle]

He has like

4 origins at this point?

whats even happening 💀

[unique berry]

Well

[dusk patrol]

Like it’s been established for awhile now he’s from Barabus

And then in Lords of Silence Wraight has him monologue about being born on Terra

Still a great scene

But it was annoying and confusing to me

Especially when where he was born is pretty central to his fall and character

[unique berry]

[storm jungle]

all my guy wanted to do was shoot flies out of his backspines

[dusk patrol]

There’s a funny moment in the Mortarion primarch book where he gets approached by DG who see him surrounded by burnt out enemies and say “oh wow you’re so good at setting up traps Typhus, like always”

So I guess he just would explain his Psyker powers as “oh yeah I set a trap”

[storm jungle]

lmao god

[dusk patrol]

“Oh yeah hahaha those are Melta charges”

[storm jungle]

I swear marines are literally himbos

I was reading that part and was like "Not ONE of you thought he was sus?"

[dusk patrol]

It’s implied it’s kinda a wink wink thing

Or they’re sus but not gonna say anything

[storm jungle]

True true

[dusk patrol]

Mortarion throughout the book clearly has a blind spot for him too

[storm jungle]

Anyway thanks for killing our traitor navigators typhus

we will totally be fine without them

[dusk patrol]

which definitely won’t end badly later

[storm jungle]

KEK

"Sorry father but your name is literally Mortartion, Nurgle wants you for his trademark brand."

engages warp-drive

[dusk patrol]

It’s the same thing with Garro funnily enough

Just the other way

Two extremes

[storm jungle]

Garro gets more leeway since people like him

Typhus is just

"Why is this man not dead yet"

Like he isnt even a likable twat like Erebus is

Typhus is just... Typhus

[dusk patrol]

To be fair people liked him a fair amount until the uh

Incident

[storm jungle]

We dont talk about that

[meager zinc]

What the hell is that

[signal bramble]

Typhus’ destroy virus flies I believe.

[meager zinc]

There kinda cute. Like they got sock puppet faces

[signal bramble]

Keep in mind his armor is empty of any of his fleshy bits. It’s filled with flies and his soul.

[meager zinc]

Ohhh so the blue stuff isnt toothpaste then

[signal bramble]

Plague smoke.

[meager zinc]

Nurgle followers gotta be the hardest chaos forces to fight. Cuz they splash any of their fluid or gas on you, your donefor

[dusk patrol]

They’re adorable

[crimson kayak]

Rubric marine but actually working as intended

[meager zinc]

Like fighting thru tzeentch followers gotta be easier cuz theyres no time to do 4d chess on you

[crimson kayak]

There's always time for 40kd chess

[meager zinc]

You just yell IM NOT LISTENING

And boom youve defeated tzeentch

[dusk patrol]

All gods marines suck for different reasons to fight

[meager zinc]

Also nurgle followers i think are the most handicap friendly faction

You can just be a flesh sack with legs and nurgles got a place for you in his army

Khorne wouldnt want you lol

[meager zinc]

Pff whatre tzeentch marines gonna do, argue me to death?

[vital kernel]

Well, not sure how intricately you are familiar with shell ejection of firearms in general, but the direction is determined by either a spring or part called the ejector which is located on the bolt itself, and depending on the orientation that will eject in whatever direction you want.
For example, many heavy Bolters feed horizontally and eject horizontally out the opposite side.

[celest dome]

Most handicapped who join chaos if they are successful could get mutation to bypass their handicap

[meager zinc]

(tears in my eyes, as i feel the tzeentch chaos magic surround my frail body) wh-whatre your ne-nerdy w-wizards gunna do? Hocus-s P-pocus me t-to d-d-death???

[crimson kayak]

Wich will probably result in them becoming a chaos spawn, so you could call it a chaos respawn

[celest dome]

Only if they get too many and aren't getting enough blessing to keep control or get uplifted

[meager zinc]

You think a dude in a wheelchair whos angry enough could get somewhere in the knornefields?

[celest dome]

If you put it on a Juggernaught or in a vehicle yes

Or a Psyker/Sorcerer