40k-lore-chat

[barren tapir]

Wat?

[honest trellis]

Point is that ai hating imperial humans is just....objectively reasonable

[celest dome]

No real point talking here, at least when I'm arguing against Silver (Like when we were talking about Blanks/Pariah) we argue about factual stuff and not head cannon/interpretation

[honest trellis]

Imperials are just that bad exhibit A the death of integrity incident

[barren tapir]

Yes it is, and it is reasonable that humans hate AI too

[honest trellis]

nah the Imperial hate is basically blind unreasoned paranoia

[barren tapir]

Ooooooohhh, i might get emotional now... Still Blanks are soulless not negative souls 😛

[honest trellis]

Not even a Heresy thing as such, just cult dogma

[vital kernel]

little detail is that humans are humans and AI is an artificial creation.

[barren tapir]

Wrong, once again wrong

[barren tapir]

You know that both Ad. Mech. and imperium had prohibition about it before they got unfied right?

Like, big E went and said "no AI!" and Ad. Mech. was "already outlawed bro, what the hell do you think you are? The only one that remember the shit that happened?"

[celest dome]

Not negative souls !!
Just less souls

[honest trellis]

As said, a tyrants power grasping and cult dogma

Hell

[barren tapir]

Of course there were people that were "yeah, ok, but what about still trying AI"

[honest trellis]

The IoM keeps blowing up mind uploads

And post scarcity worlds

It clearly doesn't know or care what's best for humanity

Like

There are at least 3 cases of perfect successes

The IoM screws over

[vital kernel]

How do you explain Eldar also hating AI?
Even Necrons abhor AI for fucks sake.

[celest dome]

Crypteck ?

Are they not AI ?

Or just Drone

[honest trellis]

Eldar went different tech tree, necrons use a more limited AI

[celest dome]

Thoug, what is Ai and what is just Drone, but then in that case the same can be said about Mankind

[barren tapir]

The thing is that the cybernetic revolt was to such a scale that pretty much every race in the galaxy was involved

[vital kernel]

Necrons don't use artificial intelligence, it's necron secret tech juice

[barren tapir]

And some races have long memories

[honest trellis]

Its just a tomb computer lol

[crimson kayak]

Tbf, what's the point of ai if you are better off giving your robots the soulstones of your dead guys as an eldar

Also... Necrons just went and became the robots themselves

They basically just went past the usefulness of full on ai for a reason or another

[dusk patrol]

Nihilius, the section of the Imperium currently being torn apart by Chaos Warbands, which has whole systems starving or falling apart because they can’t travel anymore effectively or communication, got lost, and they’re all vulnerable to any Nid fleet, Waaaaggghhh or whatever that decides to mosey on through besides.

Have you actually read a single bit of lore talking about what’s happening in Nihilius? Because it’s not sunshine and roses, people aren’t surviving or barely are and that tends to be due to being lucky enough to being in a location which can be accessed by friendly forces

[honest trellis]

Nihilus the section where being an Imperial diehard is a stupid choice and where replacements to Imperial rule are spouting in the handful of lore

there's no "friendly" Imperial backup there and that's a feature not a bug? ie: any remaining Imperial strongholds if anything are just failing to get with the program

[dusk patrol]

Yeah because they’re currently busy being picked apart by chaos Warbands and plunging into daemon worlds

[honest trellis]

I mean worlds that are TOTALLY STILL LOYAL GUYS instead of being the ones that are described as "fiercely independent" or "pragmatic"

[dusk patrol]

Or starving to death from lack of resources being brought in because no one can travel

[honest trellis]

honestly is just suicide with extra steps

also weird how allegedly starving worlds still turn out massive armies and are apparently very functional pocket empires huh

[dusk patrol]

Yes not all worlds are starving. Some are managing to survive, but it’s a losing war against chaos because there’s no way to travel effectively.

[honest trellis]

Yes, almost as if the Imperium flat out isn't a workable model anymore and the realists all moved on

[dusk patrol]

“Realists”

Aka, people being flayed alive in the streets by warbands

“Well little Timmy it sucks that you’re gonna be tortured for eternity by that Night Lord but at least we’re not the Imperium”

[honest trellis]

Or, you know, "vast armies" in Nihilus under IW banners, or explicitly called fiercely independent.

"The Night Lords are so much worse than the Inquisition excruciators guys!"

[dusk patrol]

Yes

Literally yes

It’s astonishing how much you have to cope with chaos being objectively worse

That’s how bad they are

The Imperium is a insanely low bar

And Chaos still can’t even come close to clearing it

[honest trellis]

Nah they really aren't. Like there's meaningfully no difference between a NL pulling a stunt in a fit of pique and some Inquisitor deciding to get their jollies. Almost as if the Imperium's arbitrary, insane cruelty is basically a Chaotic recruitment ad

[dusk patrol]

[honest trellis]

The Imperium is Chaos's most valuable recruitment ad

[dusk patrol]

The worst Inquisitors can barely hope to scratch what the average Warband gets up to when they’re let loose

And the worst Inquisitors are horrific

[honest trellis]

Because loot pillage and scarper is so much worse than Inquisition lunacy?

[dusk patrol]

Yeah that’s all Warbands do

Like you’re just completely lacking in any good faith argument

Completely disingenuous

[honest trellis]

snort I'll give your opinion precisely the weight it warrants

[dusk patrol]

The Night Lords trilogy is one of the best and most generous depictions of a Chaos Warband we’ve seen

And it’s still horrific

[honest trellis]

Anyway since this is apparently novel for you: warbands want to stay alive. That involves raiding.

[dusk patrol]

And they’re explicitly out of the norm for Chaos too

[honest trellis]

Guess what raiding doesn't involve? Having the time or control for anything truly involved on a target world.

[dusk patrol]

That particular warband

[celest dome]

Still make them ahole

[dusk patrol]

Yeah, which is why they just show up, horrifically murder the populace, take what they want, and leave it all to burn

At best

[honest trellis]

Sure CSM are the products of Imperial killing machines being told the answer to their problems is shooting them

[dusk patrol]

And that’s for smaller Warbands which just can’t

[honest trellis]

with predictable results

[dusk patrol]

Not for lack of desire to rule

[honest trellis]

Anyway a warband that's wasteful enough to go murdertorturekill is...basically what the IoM does to heretics anyway, so it's literally just applying IoM methodology in reverse

but with, you know, the whole chaotic pyramid scheme where there's actual hope for social advancement in theory for the bottom of the ladder

[dusk patrol]

God Chaos stans are hilarious

It’s the Ray Charles meme in real time

[dusk patrol]

Hope for advancement, bahahahaahahahahahahaha

Yeah sure dog

That chaos cultist at the bottom rung definitely has a chance when he’s used as a meat shield for his IW boss while pushing in

After the Iron Warrior killed his whole family to use their souls to bind a new daemon light to his shaving mirror

[honest trellis]

I know reading is difficult for you but the phrase "pyramid scheme" in fact is there for a reason

nice fanfiction

totally the next guy haley right there

honestly your nonsense wouldn't be too far off from some of the dregs getting published these days by BL

[dusk patrol]

I mean apparently your fanfiction is allowed

[honest trellis]

go apply, champ!

[dusk patrol]

Yes actual lore tends to trump your awful fanfic

I know

This makes you mald

[honest trellis]

Imagine being this proud of being a cash cow for action figure commericals glossing over the canon's dirty underbelly

[dusk patrol]

My brother in Christ

What the fuck do you think all of 40k is

[honest trellis]

hate to break it to you but it's got nothing to do with "actual canon"- just that IoM stans are easier wallets to keep pumping

[dusk patrol]

It’s all the same dingus

You’re just mad because your toys are the bad guys

And you want them to be good so you can feeling morally superior on the internet

And it’s not even “good”

It’s like

[honest trellis]

thinking the setting's writing outside of Haley's action figure commercials presents the IoM as good guys

lol

[dusk patrol]

Idk where I said the Imperium is the good guys

[sinful crater]

i gonna give you a big secret, no one is good in wh40k then... we are all the bad guys

[dusk patrol]

Although they are the better alternative mostly

[sinful crater]

whatever the faction you support

[honest trellis]

and the IoM is the worst because it's pointless and doomed to fail while being a roadblock for factions that actually would work :)

[sinful crater]

nope

not even close

[dusk patrol]

He’s not worth engaging with tbh

He only believes his own fanfic of 40k

Or at least

Don’t engage with him as a rational good faith actor

Since he’s not one

[honest trellis]

I guess you can take comfort in the fact that IoM fanboys like you are completely interchangable and will always have your wallets pumped, thematics and details of the setting be damned

[dusk patrol]

Tell me Lucerne, is Guy Haley in the room with us right now?

[dusk patrol]

I can promise you GW has made more money off you than they ever have with me bud

But you’re “totally unique” dude

As if Chaos stans are rare

[honest trellis]

Even sadder if you don't have the sunk cost fallacy to justify your Imperial stanning lol

[dusk patrol]

Tell me, is the Imperial Stan in the room with us right now?

[sinful crater]

personally i'm a space wolves stan, then screw the inquisition, screw the dark angel...

do that make me an imperium stan?

[dusk patrol]

Not if you don’t disagreed with him

You see, it’s a simple formula

Disagreed+Lucerne = You’re an Imperium Stan

Doesn’t matter if you actually said anything which suggested that

Also, you’re just buying models from GW and you’re boring

Not like him

He’s not like the other Stans™️

[sinful crater]

hehe i don't even purchase models ^^

[dusk patrol]

Same

[sinful crater]

i live too far of any one for play then no point to invest into it. i just enjoy the fluf

[honest trellis]

If you like the puppies then that doesn't really factor into it at all, you'd have to be some sort of nutjob that thinks the IoM is doing anything useful for humanity by running the least useful regime imaginable in the name of a dead guy who wanted the opposite who mismanaged things right into a revolt that got him killed and broke his empire

[dusk patrol]

Hilariously, Lucerne has almost certainly been a better little consumer for GW than I’ve ever been

[honest trellis]

but surely no one would be that idiotic

[dusk patrol]

Haley would be proud

[sinful crater]

that the point lucerne, we don't try to think it's the morale or good thing, we don't care, we follow a story, we don't try to change it. we are not writer but reader. be fan don't give you the right to simply decide that the setup need to be changed for match your taste. if it's displease you simply don't stay with it. you will have a better life... no point to stay into something that make you look like arngorn

[honest trellis]

Wow weird how many are yelling at length how the Imperium is TOTALLY THE BEST OPTION FOR HUMANITY for people that don't care 🤣

and like, it's no change, it literally is spelled out from the first words of 40k that the Imperium is the worst possible government

[sinful crater]

we say that in the situation the mankind is... in this setup it's the only viable solution without destroy mankind. that different...

[honest trellis]

But it canonically isn't

Even ignoring Chaos as an option outright

There's everything from literally mind uploads that keep getting blown up by Imperials because >heresy

to working with or under other factions

to just...not being Imperial

it's all viable

hell you can even cite heresy lore where AI flat out just casually deletes Chaos influence from Mars

[dusk patrol]

I mean people were mostly just saying that dismantling the Imperium would end up killing quadrillions of people and that’s bad

[honest trellis]

so the IoM is worse at its job than a rogue AI that it needed to win Mars during the heresy!

[earnest snow]

Ngl I'm not seeing that anywhere my guy. I'm just seeing a ton of pointless shit just being smeared everywhere. Everything is equally terrible in 40k. That's the literal point.

[sinful crater]

tau are not big enough for support the "imperium" world... and chaos is not an option since you fail to accept that chaos is random and extrem... most of them want to match them need and they are not for human

[dusk patrol]

But hey dude I bet your chaos warbands have a plan to feed them

[honest trellis]

Tau aren't big enough yet

[dusk patrol]

He has to project his strawman arguments onto people

[honest trellis]

Also the IoM was founded on needing to use chaos

for the Primarchs

[dusk patrol]

Or else then he’d have to engage

[earnest snow]

I'm seeing that in action atm.

[dusk patrol]

And be actually good faith

[sinful crater]

and we come back to what i have said... as it stand at this point of the time, imperium is the only viable option... not the best, not morale, juste the only viable option without wiping countless world.

[honest trellis]

Anyway scroll back and you'll see other IoM stans before long, and arguing humans need the IoM and can't survive without it

[honest trellis]

I mean, in one sense

in that the IoM keeps desperately trying to destroy every alternative it finds

see also: blowing up worlds with mind-uploads

and all the useful options being "heresy" or "heretek"

Also given entire segmentums have fucked off before, it's clear the IoM isn't even necessary locally

[dusk patrol]

And these Imperium stans are in the room with us now?

[sinful crater]

then do you think dorn and lion will come back?

[proud mango]

I think perhaps, the genre of grimdark has to be explained at some point

[honest trellis]

They're being brought back yes

because the money-making side of the setting outweighs the lore implications and people have seen the minis

Well, allegedly, the Lion's mini

[celest dome]

People have seen the minis of Dorn and the Lion ?

Other than the 30k ones ?

[honest trellis]

Yeah

the latter, atm

[celest dome]

You mean the Dorn tank ?

[honest trellis]

No I definitely do not

Dorn is still a few hints/phrasing, but there are rumors of the Lion getting a 40k Primarch mini specifically, complete with retinue

[celest dome]

Dron and the Lion being alive is conceivable, but neither have any leak atm about their release or anything of the sort

[storm jungle]

There is only one leak about the DA

and thats the Rock being under attack

possibly tied to the Arks of Omen stuff

[sinful crater]

well if the rock is really underattack is the best moment for bring him back

[honest trellis]

recent valrak rumors- Lion mini seen in person by his source on a tac rock, with lionsguard

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

no like we got actual photo evidence

[honest trellis]

oh right that

[storm jungle]

its that new daemon-metal-person doing it

[honest trellis]

oh yeah that

[sinful crater]

i means if they want a justification it's the best one, no?

[honest trellis]

yeah there's a primaris dark angel character, not huge shock 🤣

[storm jungle]

Sorry I thought you meant Dwayne instead of the Lion hence the emote use

[honest trellis]

But given Valrak's batting average for leaks has been solid, I'm willing to lend credence to the lionsguard retinue and Lion mini existing

[storm jungle]

yeah same

[honest trellis]

especially if those primaris devastators turn out to exist as described too

[storm jungle]

at worst its true but wont be out for a year or two

some miniature/lore leaks take awhile to actually get released

[honest trellis]

GW's release schedule works in mysterious ways

[storm jungle]

yep

[honest trellis]

praying for loyalist slapfest tbh

since it'll be a cold day when they let traitors dunk on the loyalist primarchs 🤣

[sinful crater]

like the next class for darktide, this is mysterious!

[honest trellis]

C I V I L W A R

The most disappointing outcome is if they use Lion to roll back Nihilus back to IoM all day erry day status quo

But yeah my money's on

Vashtorr hits the Rock-> Angron acts spooky for a bit with the wave 1 world eaters ->Lion shows up and stops one or both, probably angron

[dusk patrol]

Lion vs Angron would be cool ngl

[sinful crater]

me i want a ghazgul vs angron

[dusk patrol]

I just want Ghaz and Yarrick again….but….

I guess not all dreams can come true

[sinful crater]

well they are dream

[barren tapir]

The only one that wanna see some Ymir conglomerate actions is me? I like those red armoured master crafter kicking ass

Or maybe some more Ad. Mech.

[proud mango]

Ghaz and Yarrick team up to fight chaos in order to get back to the real war 😛

[celest dome]

I'd never say no to more Ad Mech

Both in lore, TT, and Darktide

[honest trellis]

AdMech seem to be in limbo TBH

or rather are a "compete" range for now

[celest dome]

There are still stuff that can be introduced, not counting the 30k stuff we've been told we would get

But sadly never got

[honest trellis]

Fires of Cancellation is never gonna happen tbh, even though it should

[celest dome]

There is still stuff that could be brought out

In the same way the Pteratix and the Cav were

The lore has 2 or 3 Admech active Walker still

Pluses certain minor cults

[rustic spruce]

So how did perturabo become a prince of chaos undivided instead of one particular god

[celest dome]

Yes

We don't know how he look like now

[mystic geyser]

Undivided princes were a thing

Now they aren't a thing...

But Perturabo / Lorgar haven't had thier lore updated.

So who knows

[vital kernel]

Chaos was a lot more nuanced before it became the four colours club.

[dusk patrol]

We do have a description from a short story

He’s bigger, more necrotic looking

[celest dome]

Necron or Necrotic

[dusk patrol]

Necrotic

[barren tapir]

Why not both?

[dusk patrol]

Almost undead looking

[barren tapir]

Both sounds good

[barren tapir]

Eh, fit with how we left him, with part of his soul get stripped from him iirc

[dusk patrol]

Whether or not they’ll stick with they if they do an official depiction of him who knows

But that’s the only description we have for him as a daemon prince

It’s from the like, anniversary or LE version of Storm of Iron, it had an exclusive short with it

Where Honsou meets Perturabo

Iirc it’s to do with the preparations for the 13th

[barren tapir]

I heard it was about the empire building they are doing after the great rift formation

[dusk patrol]

It may have been that too, I can’t recall the exact context beyond it being recent

[proud mango]

hot take.... as cool as they look, are DKoKrieg a little boring? From what I can tell they are virtually mindless automatons with little to no ability to adapt to a situation outside of throwing more manpower at it. Or has my perception been warped by memes 😛

[storm jungle]

I mean yeah they are

people just like them becaose "WOOO WW1 HORSES, TRENCHES OMG"

[signal bramble]

It’s hard to explain, but that’s part of the appeal. Basically they’re about as 40k as you can get. Stripped of their humanity with their only purpose to die for the emperor.

The krieg novel also attempts to characterize them more and show there is a bit more going on behind the masks.

[proud mango]

i mean that's why I know I like them 😄 but outside of that I cant find anything compelling about them. I listened to the Krieg audiobook and enjoyed it but outside of Jurten and his contemporaries there arent any individuals that are interesting other than the theme they have

[signal bramble]

The theme is enough for me. ^_^

[proud mango]

i did enjoy Krieg, but its the pre-Nuclear wasteland characters who were appealing and interesting.

and I do like the theme

[signal bramble]

The one who unhesitatingly sacrificed himself to activate the weapons so the Orks couldn’t get them.

It showed heroism on a personal level.

And it shows that every one of them would be willing to make that sacrifice where other men might hesitate.

[proud mango]

oh yeah! that was cool

[signal bramble]

That was my interpretation.

[proud mango]

and the cadian trooper was looking on in horror and awe right?

[signal bramble]

Right.

[proud mango]

yeah that was cool

i just wish there was more krieg books but I dont think there are any that could be done in the style of guants ghosts, which I think is a shame

or maybe there could and I'm being too short sighted

[signal bramble]

They’d have to have to some outsider with them to provide a contrast.

[storm jungle]

The only person that writes about Krieg is one dude

Steve Lyons iirc

hope it stays that way

[barren tapir]

Are you telling me that having multiple authors write the same faction isn't the best way to do faction representation?!

[storm jungle]

Possibly

[slender orchid]

Good and bad. If that one author is excellent, you get consistency. If that one author is bad, your faction novels could take years, get discontinued, or involve three of your strongest heroes getting bodied by one daemon.

[barren tapir]

Naaaaah, that is too reasonable, abandon reason, know only inconsistent stuff

[proud mango]

yeah hes pretty good

[proud mango]

yeah true

commissar would probably be too cliche? but i can imagine it from a remembrancer's pov being really traumatising

[signal bramble]

It would have to be.

In the Catachan Devil novel they roped in a random hive conscript in to the Catachan regiment to provide contrast.

Even though the idea was stupid af and played out exactly like you expected.

[proud mango]

lol 😄

[signal bramble]

He eventually gets accepted etc etc.

Then the Catachans Naruto run.

Yes really.

It’s a mess.

The ork bits in the book are really good though.

[proud mango]

haha

classic

[vital kernel]

forget about Catachan, what about Armageddon Ork Hunters book

could just have an FNG as the outside perspective

[proud mango]

here's a another unrelated IG question, why are the cadian shock troops considered to be "shock troops" since they're basically line infantry which attack en masse with the support of mechanised and heavy armour units? Surely they'd reserve the designation of "shock troops" for actual shock troops

is there something in lore to suggest they're actually that effective or something?

[storm jungle]

Because it sounds cool.

[proud mango]

rule of cool is an acceptable reason 😛

[visual lodge]

Cool does 20% more damage man

[proud mango]

😄

are they going to rename the modles to just "imperial shock troops" now cadia is gone?

[vital kernel]

because they are technically "shock" infantry. As in they actually push at tactical targets on foot.

[proud mango]

i guess there is that

[visual lodge]

Outside of "cool", I'm thinking more along the following of which sounds cooler ;

Ogryn shock unit recruited from all over or...

Cadians whom had their planet fucked up Alderaan style fueled by pure anger and tanna

I'd choose the second for shock troops

or label "shock" rather

[proud mango]

I meant like because most guard units use the cadian armour etc, and since cadia is no more should they just use a catch all now

[vital kernel]

"Cadian" troops remain as before more of a template than an actual geographic denomination. Even when Cadia was still around, 90% of the "Cadian" inspired Regiments were never even close to Cadia, but their equipment and tactics were so succesful that they became an often emulated standard across the Galaxy.

[proud mango]

oh okay i see

that makes sense

sorry im bit of a noob when it comes to IG stuff

[barren tapir]

They were seen as the best template to slap on worlds that didn't developed a sufficiently peculiar culture of war

[proud mango]

they do look cool

[vital kernel]

Not to mention, there were so many Cadians deployed all across the Galaxy, close to a billion probably, that "Cadians" as we knew them will become more of an expat soldier culture than a unified planetary populace.

[barren tapir]

They were considered the best humans troops

[proud mango]

gotcha

[visual lodge]

thought that was a toss up between them and catachan fighters?

[proud mango]

so essentially they are like the roman legions and all the other quirky regiments are essentially auxiliary specialists?

[vital kernel]

Catachans are good individual fighters and great at a platoon level given the circumstances. But a brigade of Catachans charging across an open field into machinegun fire would probably be a waste and not really useful

[celest dome]

Catachan have great troops but they don't field so many regiments

[vital kernel]

No, that is an incorrect view of things.

[celest dome]

At least compared to the Cadians

[proud mango]

ah cool

[barren tapir]

Catachans are considered effective, but unruly, cadians were seen as the perfect soldiers that do what they are ordered and are proficient in the art of war

[vital kernel]

I would argue they are valued for their versatility, as that you could drop a Regiment of Cadians into any theatre and they would be useful.

But they are not "perfect".

No Regiment is perfect.

[barren tapir]

Not perfect in the sense they are capable to do anything better than anyone else, but a soldier isn't only about personal might, also working as squad, being flexible as you said and being capable to follow orders, for that cadians were seen as perfect soldiers, but perfect soldier doesn't mean the mightest of them all or the stronger or the smartest

Cadia pretty much made nearly every type of regiments, most of other worlds focus heavily on one, or just that one

[visual lodge]

I wouldn't label them like that...

The IG are the best of the best without being a SM (think like a whole army of the most high speed dudes that could ever high speed and then add 40k high-speed...no. fuckin. drag). They're not an auxiliary, that'd be closer to these dudes, the PDF (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Planetary_Defence_Forces).

[proud mango]

oh i see, thanks!

[barren tapir]

Welp, today i found out that ASpec, the stellaris youtuber, seems to be a warhammer 40K fan

[signal bramble]

@honest trellis Luetin did a lore video about the DkoK. If you go to around 55-58 minute mark he refers to the part I mentioned.

It seems he also agrees with my theory. XD

[visual lodge]

np. there is a force auxilia that falls under the IG that consist of the "right" abhumans but mainly ratlings and ogryns

[vital kernel]

Anyone else played this game a whole lot? Loved it myself, could have done with a tad larger battles tho.

[visual lodge]

If there was a brutal kunnin strategy game...

[plush mason]

||thats the book where 2 orks use a hotrod that can warp jump to take out a titan right?||

[visual lodge]

yup.

gotta admit tho, itz pretty kunnin

actually, just a greentide mode playing as ufthak would be baller

[proud mango]

ah nice 🙂 wondered how they fit in

[proud mango]

is that the oldschool hexbased HOMM style game?

[warm crest]

Theory time

We are using the Kelermorph's Liberator Pattern Stub-Revolvers with AP Volonium DPUs

[storm jungle]

They don't even look the same.

[warm crest]

I mean they kind of do

Until the barrels

The Kelermorph's use the full length cavalry style barrels whilst ours use something like a CQB barrel

[storm jungle]

I guess?

[shadow plover]

goliath stub gun is probably the closest although I'm pretty sure it's a bigger variant

[warm crest]

Darn

No yeehaw cavalry revolver then

Tho I gotta say, we probably use the same AP rounds since the in game revolver can punch through enemies

[fierce pendant]

Isn't the whole stick of hive worlds that weapons they produce differ because besides the most famous patterns etc. The rest is like, free real estate for anyone that can call themselves a gun manufacturer? Locally developed schematics etc. I think that applies to stub revolvers, autoguns etc.?

So the stub revolver in DT is just of Moebian desing.

[warm crest]

Ah well, yeah thats probably true

Never seen a twin linked lasgun with P-Rails and a holo sight before

[brittle slate]

I’m sorry, WHAT?

[warm crest]

?

[brittle slate]

We have a twin linked Lasgun?

[warm crest]

Yeah

Press 5 whenever you're using the Recon lasgun in a dark room

[brittle slate]

So not this

[warm crest]

You don't get the joke huh

[fierce pendant]

Lasgun commonly memed on as flashlight

Flashlight with lasgun = twinlinked

[brittle slate]

Eh

[plush mason]

lmao

they have been making that joke sense they first showed the kantraal with its flashlight

[fierce pendant]

yep

[dusk patrol]

The jokes probably older than most of the people in this discord

[plush mason]

true

[brittle slate]

Circa 1998… it’s the dad joke of 40k

[storm jungle]

I mean

its a very dumb joke and incredibly low hanging fruit

so i dont blame you

[fierce pendant]

Pretty much

[brittle slate]

I guess every new iteration of 40k means all the old jokes are vogue

[storm jungle]

they mostly are, about as same as how most of the fandom believed every guardsman in the galaxy has 15 hour survival rate

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/saltzpyre-saltzpyre-no-warrior-priest-no-saltzpyre-warrior-priest-no-vermintide-gif-24413806

I refuse to allow it to be

[plush mason]

its not

[fierce pendant]

wdym, you're telling me, the first billion of conscripts in every regiment isn't dying from a sneeze in their barracks?!

[plush mason]

LOL

[fierce pendant]

Wtf 40k isn't grimdark anymore

😔

[storm jungle]

fr fr

[plush mason]

that example is funny because i can see someone sneezing in the barracks resulting in said barracks being filled with tox gas "just to be safe"

cause lets face it the barracks likely only has a few 100 to a few 1000 troops in it, and with the numbers the imperium is working with that isnt even a rounding error

[dusk patrol]

Dude, GW changed it so it only takes one orphan sacrifice to turn on a coffee maker instead of 15, 40k just isn't what it used to be

[plush mason]

LOL

[fierce pendant]

Can't wait for the squad leader class to come out for all the commissar execution memes to pop up from the grave.

unless they'll scrap that class and change it lmao

[unique berry]

I hope they wont add a Krieg skin or else the memes and Krieg fanatics will never stop

[storm jungle]

On one hand

I agree

On the other hand I would absolutely exploit the Krieg fanbase for more money

its scummy but in a weird way i would not blame them for doing so

[fierce pendant]

I mean they'll add krieg stuff. It's like a sad truth.

[unique berry]

True easy money for sure

[fierce pendant]

Then again they'll add all other stuff too and hey.

[arctic talon]

Increase the price of krieg minis on FW

[fierce pendant]

Krieg getting their regiment is cool also.

[storm jungle]

We already have people saying the Steel Legion cosmetic is Krieg

[arctic talon]

136$ for 6 death riders is too cheap

[warm crest]

hurr durr shovel durr

[storm jungle]

legit trench brainrot

[unique berry]

GW did my Steel Legion dirty

[fierce pendant]

Don't remind me

[arctic talon]

If anyone says the steel legion cosmetic is krieg

Fight them off with the 3e photos

Of krieg being recolored steel legion minis

[unique berry]

That cant be real right?

[arctic talon]

It is real and I’ve seen it

[fierce pendant]

Same.

Linked Dil a steam post pretty sure about it lmao.

[storm jungle]

Yeah we are not kidding

sees gasmask

OMG KRIEG

: Who the fuck-

[arctic talon]

Kill them with this

[fierce pendant]

Meme korps of krieg

my favorite

[storm jungle]

sdfksd

Morrow has the skull-gasmask on his belt too

so thats neat

[arctic talon]

Every person to scream about shovels and krieg using them in melee

Should get bludgeoned with one irl

[storm jungle]

THEY LITERALLY

HAVE TRENCH-CLUBS

[fierce pendant]

I mean we won't get krieg skin next given we just got shovel skin for steel legion one.

[storm jungle]

IN THEIR MINIS

[celest dome]

Wrong Gasmask Shovel boy

[fierce pendant]

RIght?

[unique berry]

This community

[arctic talon]

They also have bayonets

Yknow

An actual melee weapon

[warm crest]

Isn't that what the little pointy metal stick at the end of their guns for? 🤨

[arctic talon]

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60010199037_KT2Group1.jpg

I don’t see a shovel

Being used as a melee

[warm crest]

Not to mention their Commissars have swords and they clearly have mortars and arty and Chimeras and shit

[arctic talon]

I swear to fucking god

[storm jungle]

Question, did you see their reveal stream.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

Everyone was ranting about them not having shovels

literal toxic brain rot

[arctic talon]

[storm jungle]

💀

[fierce pendant]

Is that the kill team one.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[fierce pendant]

I love it

[arctic talon]

It’s the kill team one

[warm crest]

In lore they likely just...sit on their ass circlejerking about feeling bad for the Emperor as they load mortars and bombard a technologically inferior foe's hospitals or some shit

[arctic talon]

Their backpacks have an entrenching tool

For like

4 of em

[fierce pendant]

for entrenching

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[fierce pendant]

yes

[arctic talon]

And there’s also like

[warm crest]

With NBC payloads too

[arctic talon]

Another weird digging tool

[storm jungle]

Most krieg fans dont realise 70% of a Kriegsman's life is artillery stuff

[arctic talon]

I don’t recognize lol

Dkok love artillery

As any trench warfare specialist should

[warm crest]

I'm going to say this

[unique berry]

I mean if some of those Krieg fans would actually look up what both Regiments are based off they... no they would still be idiots

[warm crest]

They are not fucking trench warfare specialists

Thats actual fanon

[arctic talon]

yeah

They’re siege specialists

It’s just that vraks devolved into trench warfare

[warm crest]

They are artillery specialists who only build trenches to safely operate the gun encampments from

[fierce pendant]

Ye

Vraks was also portraying WW1 grind

so like

[arctic talon]

Steel legion are mechanized warfare

[fierce pendant]

they're still masters at laying sieges etc.

[warm crest]

I shit you not the trenches are there not because heretics are charging over no mans land like dumbasses but rather to block out enemy fire whenever they are running about

[arctic talon]

Which isn’t anything like artillery

[fierce pendant]

ye

[signal bramble]

The krieg novel also states this.

[warm crest]

When they actually do attack enemy positions they pack an extreme amount of heat like Meltas and Plasmas and tanks and slam down hard with Valkyries rather than yknow, running across machine gun fire like retards

[arctic talon]

Ngl I still think it’s weird we got the assault division rules for Dkok

When the engineering division rules

[warm crest]

They're trained, fanatical soldiers. Not fucking invalids

[arctic talon]

Literally like

Fit their doctrine better

Of laying siege then moving in with a ton of firepower

[fierce pendant]

I still like how they portrayed the kriegs in that Kill Team vid the most.

[arctic talon]

They literally chose the most boring fucking rules

For the Dkok after 8th

[fierce pendant]

fanatical but definately human in how they feel about a suicidal mission, terrifying the shit out of them but they get it done.

Then again we have the community which pictures them as uh

[barren tapir]

Hello fellow kriegsmen, it is a perfect day to clear a minefield charging into it isn't it?

[fierce pendant]

stop

[unique berry]

I love the idea of the ASL the mech infantry tactics

[arctic talon]

Drown

[barren tapir]

WHAT?! That is cowardice in the field of battle, execute him no matter if he is a commisar!

[unique berry]

Da good stuff

[arctic talon]

Also you can finally play old Dkok siege division rules(sorta)

In the new guard codex

[barren tapir]

Either we kill the enemy or we will drown them with our blood, charge!

[arctic talon]

Bcs regiments aren’t a thing anymore

[warm crest]

Krieger 1: "Fuck me I feel so ashamed for not dying for the Emperor in a war beyond us."

Kreiger 2: "Who the fuck asked? Load that mortar real quick or we'd be forced to dig shellscrapes by hand and get our masks clogged again. Idiot."

[barren tapir]

??

Wut?

Regiments are no more? So it is pick and mix?

[signal bramble]

You pick doctrines now.

[barren tapir]

Oh, so it is easier to make personalised regiments nice nice

But i expect that some templates are also present, and might have some unique bonus

[signal bramble]

Yeah. The krieg one is wound rolls of 1-2 auto fail.

The Mordian is heavy 2 on las guns if the unit stays still.

[barren tapir]

Good good, i think it is a nice change

[arctic talon]

There’s examples of templates for famous regiments

But you either pick 2 or pick born soldiers

[barren tapir]

Really good

[arctic talon]

Born soldiers being all 6+ to hit is a auto wound

And the other ones also being really really good

[signal bramble]

Born soldiers maths out the highest though in nearly all situations.

[barren tapir]

So born soldiers doctrine is valued 2, intriguing

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[signal bramble]

Because it’s so powerful.

[barren tapir]

It doesn't seems that strong, but maybe i'm missing something

[arctic talon]

Kasrkin with born soldiers + another trait on their way to delete you

[arctic talon]

First rank fire second rank fire lets you drown people in weight of shots via tank fire

[barren tapir]

It is really that easy get 6+?

[signal bramble]

6’s autowounding when you are rolling something like 100 dice?

[arctic talon]

Is what makes it “good”

Guard have a ton of rerolls rn

[signal bramble]

Plus rerolls.

[arctic talon]

Also god forbid you play chaos

And they have cadian shock troopers

[barren tapir]

Ah, so it is the big number... Well, knowing me i will always do 5 or less anyway, fuck dice pools systems

[arctic talon]

Bcs Cadians reroll all 1s

[signal bramble]

Fishing for autowounds by throwing tons of dice is a perfectly valid strat.

[arctic talon]

Against chaos for 1 cp

Yeah

[signal bramble]

And it works just fine.

[unique berry]

Is it worth getting back into tabletop as Guardsmen?

[signal bramble]

Guard are sick right now.

[arctic talon]

Do you like guard?

[signal bramble]

And the baneblade is no longer a meme.

[barren tapir]

Sure sure, unless the person is me... I once did a test, 20 dices, i was playing harkam horror, 20 dices and not a single 5 or 6

[arctic talon]

Jfc

That’s awful

[signal bramble]

Guard can roll 5-6 times that many a turn. XD

[barren tapir]

Yeah, i hate RNG because i'm so fucking unlucky with dice rolls

[signal bramble]

With rerolling.

[unique berry]

Cadian and Steel Legion army yes sir the only true faction

[arctic talon]

Honestly mechanized guard rn are really good

Sentinels, russes and the like

[signal bramble]

You wouldn’t pick those regiments anymore. You’d make your dudes with whatever doctrines of famous regiments you want.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[barren tapir]

Now, if there was a way to stack bonus to reliably get 6+ with results like 5 or 4 then it could work for me

[signal bramble]

Votann have a mechanic for that.

[barren tapir]

Indeed, and i love them for that

Ymir Conglomerate for the win

[signal bramble]

The new detachment rule is insane.

They previewed it today.

[barren tapir]

Red armours? Check
Master crafters? Check
Invincible rolls on everything and improved one on what it had already one? Check
Longer range for weapons? Check
Lol, this seems tailored on me

[arctic talon]

The steel legion regimental trait recommendation is blitz division. + mechanized

[unique berry]

[arctic talon]

Which is really fun

[unique berry]

Yus

[arctic talon]

You get to use turn 3 onwards rules

For deep striking and reinforcements

On turn 2

So you can have a chimera pop up in the most godforsaken position possible

[signal bramble]

Did you guys see the new detachment rules yet?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

They look uh

Intresting lol

[signal bramble]

Plus this.

Imperial knights plus Votann? Sign me up.

[honest trellis]

Krieg will happen later lol, steel legion are just them double dipping early

[arctic talon]

Also industrial efficiency is the other option to combine with mechanized for steel legion

Bcs giving mini armor of contempt is very good

[unique berry]

Imperial Knight

[arctic talon]

Wait I wonder if votaan can ally with most factions

[barren tapir]

Votann as detachment for imperium uh... What about the inverse... Something something lambdan lions scions and Ymir conglomerate...

[arctic talon]

Hopefully

[barren tapir]

Or rhoin cobras... One take out psykers and the other give covering fire

[brittle slate]

In universe yes

Tabletop? I don’t trust the rulebook writers to read lore anymore

[honest trellis]

"weird" that IoM gets advantages again lol

It's not lore breaking I guess

[brittle slate]

The LoV have a relationship with Kroot that predate the tau. So that’s over 4k years ago. Two LoV factions have joined the tau. They seem like they’re more uncomfortable about chaos rather then opposed.

The only straight “no” I see is orks, nids and potentially necrons.

[honest trellis]

Newcrons amusingly should have more ally options lorewise

some dynasties have vague notes about "work with 'lesser species'" in their lore every so often

[arctic talon]

Newcrons should be given ally options with IoM, and craftworld Eldar tbh

They’ve both been seen working together

In some rare occasions

[unique berry]

Kroot give me da creeps and i dont even know why

[arctic talon]

They eat sapient people?

And can devolve

Or evolve

[unique berry]

I like the concept of eating strong enemies to evole and gain the strenght from them

[arctic talon]

I think the fact they straight up devolve is creepy

Sometimes

[unique berry]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

Like a kroots family member might just one day

Not be able to talk or think properly anymore

[unique berry]

Heard some audiobook which portrait them a bit creepy vpukd be cause it was a Guardsmen perspective

[arctic talon]

Bcs they ate something bad

[unique berry]

U gotta be picky as kroot lol

[arctic talon]

Gota eat the healthy option always

[unique berry]

Good old ork veggie steak

[barren tapir]

Because they are angry birds that eat people? I mean, it seems fair, angry birds are scary

[unique berry]

That could be it

[barren tapir]

Smh when angry birds don't listen to their shapers smh

[arctic talon]

That slice of meat looks really tasty

[honest trellis]

Kroot are that rare thing

a 40k alien species written as actually alien

rather than human in funny hat

[barren tapir]

IIRC if kroot eat too much orks they will start to act like them, and because of that they are strictly monitored by tau when there are orks to fight

[honest trellis]

which newcrons are a really bad example of

[arctic talon]

Kroot need to ensure a very balanced diet

Ironically

[barren tapir]

And for sure they don't eat chaos followers bodies

[arctic talon]

No chaos, no nids, no genestealer cultists

Those are the 3 big rules

[barren tapir]

And no tau

[arctic talon]

Also that

How the fuck did I forget that one

[barren tapir]

The first big rule of what not to eat

[arctic talon]

Yeah

But anything else is A-okay

[barren tapir]

Yeah, kroot that eat catachans start behaving like them btw

[arctic talon]

Just don’t eat too much grox

Unless you wana become a grox

[barren tapir]

Wearing red bandanas and being secretive near outsiders

Like, kroot are great

[arctic talon]

Kroot are hilarious tbh

Their culture is really fun

And I hope there’s one in the upcoming rogue trader game

[barren tapir]

Also, some kroots go around eating stuff that have good genes and then return and get eaten by others to pass those genes

Yeah, they are really well made

And when you read enough about them they become so fucking scary

[arctic talon]

Also kroot saying felenids look the same as humans except for their giant claws

Is hilarious

[barren tapir]

Yeah, but that kroot also say that to him humans are all the same

[arctic talon]

Yeah bcs he’s racist/j

[barren tapir]

Now i wonder if they have also a rule about no LoV eating too, make sense since they seems to have a strong connection

At least with that specific league

[arctic talon]

Ehhh

Prolly not

They eat other client races of the tau

[barren tapir]

How many zealots did he eat? Because that is not that out of boundaries for kroot lol

[arctic talon]

Idk lol

The kroot was munching down on old one tech

[barren tapir]

Well, they don't shoot at each other in old rules when they are working for different fleets

[arctic talon]

So he went mildly insane

[barren tapir]

Fokken frogs, another of their faults

[arctic talon]

Spindle drones are tasty(maybe)

Tasty enough for a kroot to eat them at least lol

No fucking clue what part is edible

I’d assume it’s like a very crunchy very dry very tough and very hard piece of jerky

[acoustic copper]

Crunchy on the outside, chewy on the inside, ARMADILLO! Spindle Drone!

[winged dock]

Yo what's the canon difficulty in game.

[honest trellis]

Honestly?

You should probably be dead.

You're basically low-tier dark heresy acolytes

going up against full on traitor guard and an entire hive of nurglite corruption

even the daemonhosts are hilariously toned down

to the point where in RPG terms they'd probably be dybbuk, aka: diet daemonhosts

[dusk patrol]

Damnation probably I guess

But the games real canon is probably a lot fewer dudes

So like, maybe low level numbers of enemies

With high level damage numbers and stuff.

[honest trellis]

TBH "canon" is probably

[barren tapir]

All difficulties are canon if we go with the names, initially you are just sent to minor engagements with small presence of enemies tier 1, then with each new info that the groups bring back, if they came back, increase the picture up to heresy i think... Also because i don't think that lore wise there is damnation title used to indicate FUBAR situations

[honest trellis]

a mountain of dead rejects

like one that actually lives for the ending

and the PDF/Guard doing the bulk of the legwork

[dusk patrol]

Mostly our missions are small scale affairs anyways

[honest trellis]

Or to put it another way: the trailer events sum up how most missions end

[magic iron]

has an emperor's champion ever died? tried searching but can't find any specific references

[barren tapir]

You mean the peculiar title of the black templars? Yes, constantly

[signal bramble]

Basically every space marine dies in battle sooner or later. But for the BT, recovering a Champion’s relics is even more important than normal.

[magic iron]

I thought there was only one Champion

[unique berry]

No many Crusades of them got a Champion

[magic iron]

isn't that the Company Champion?

[unique berry]

I think in Helsreach they mentioned something with Champions from different Crusades but I aint really sure its been a while

[signal bramble]

The BT have multiple emp champions.

[unique berry]

But they only got 10 Black Blades wasnt it its like on of the biggest relics they have

[magic iron]

I'm just trying to find if any one them have died lol, cause from what I've read, they are nearly invincible it seems

[unique berry]

No they die frequently as they challenge the Champions and are always on the front fighting

[signal bramble]

They’re not immortal. So it stands to reason they’d get killed in battle sooner or later.

[magic iron]

yeah I just can't find anything on one actually being killed lol, figured as strong as they make them, their death would have to be pretty badass

[unique berry]

I mean they die fighting with a full relic armor and relic Sword its as badass as it gets

[barren tapir]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aelius

[unique berry]

Losing relic armor and a Sword 💀 ouch

[barren tapir]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bayard

Another one that got killed, they are just SM with a precious gear

Nothing that hard to kill

[proud mango]

Primus

[unique berry]

https://youtu.be/s2WGE1L6WKs its legendary

[arctic talon]

Emperors champions are harder to kill then the average marine but they’ll still die to all the usual things

they’re very competent however

[proud mango]

Shout out to John Keeble who narrates it (his stuff is taken from the audiobook). The film does a great job condensing the 12 hrs and 14 mins audiobook.

[vital kernel]

Keeble is great, but Toby Longworth is greater

also, isn't it kinda odd how they're Imperial Fists and successors but usually studied the Blade?
You'd expect them to be all over those Powerfists no?

[arctic talon]

Ironicially imperial fists don’t like powerfists that much

They like chainswords a lot tho

[vital kernel]

Crimson Fists know what its all about, props to them.

[plucky raptor]

As soon as I was able to buy a Boltgun in Darktide, I had to come here. They absolutely fuck so goddamn hard and I think this is as close as they've ever come to feeling like they should in the lore.

Though I find it surprising that normal humans are able to wield them, much less acquire them. Aren't they considered holy weapons?

[arctic talon]

No

It’s not an astartes bolter

So its not any more holy then a lasgun

[vital kernel]

There is a difference between a regular Bolter and an Astartes Bolter.
In theory, all Bolter designs were originally made for base human hands, but when the Emp created Space Marines he also scaled up the famous Terran Bolters for their use.
But Bolter Patterns for base humans were always around, both Boltgun and Boltpistol Variants.
The Locke Pattern Bolter we get in game was a design in use by the Adeptus Arbites, who are usually pushing the boundaries of what a base human is, so it's on the larger side of non-Astartes Bolters.

[plucky raptor]

I was unaware that there are Astartes specific variants

[vital kernel]

Most Patterns we know, like Godwyn, Phobos etc are Patterns designed exclusively for Astartes, since unaugmented Humans could not really use them.
But Patterns like Tigrus and Umbra are right on the border, usually chambered in .65 or .70 caliber Bolts rather than the .75 and .80 caliber of the larger ones. So a Human could use those, but not comfortably.

[acoustic kraken]

Need some help. Got some 40k games and would like to know opinions on what order to play them. Dawn of War, Dawn of war 2, Dawn of war 2 chaos rising, gothic armada, gothic armada 2, space marine anniversary, space hulk tactiocs, and mechanicus

[vital kernel]

Any order you want, just play the base games before the sequels

you should probably go in order of release tho so the earlier ones don't look too dated in comparison

[north lotus]

TO LASHING WITH YOU

That’s a actually punishment

Saying that fucking joke

[fierce pendant]

I was explaining it tho

Calm ur socks.

[vital kernel]

I guess you can go like this: Dawn of War, Space Marine, (by this point you'll be like "wow enough of Space Marines for a while!" so you'll get a break with:) Gothic Armada, Dawn of War 2, Mechanicus, Space Hulk Tactics, Chaos Rising, Gothic Armada 2

should also be roughly in chronological order timeline wise

[vital kernel]

[acoustic kraken]

Thank you! Brand new to 40k, sunk 60 hr into darktide and wanna learn more

[urban spire]

astartes is godwyn pattern, the one in the game is locke

locke's made for cops with an inferiority complex the adeptus arbites

[storm jungle]

Wake me up when they add this to the game

[vital kernel]

Arbites are the FBI and Judge Dredd rolled into one

[plush mason]

wtf is that?

[urban spire]

it's literally just judge dredd, it's an "homage"

[vital kernel]

not quite, it was at some point but it evolved past that

[storm jungle]

Proteus-Pattern Astartes Missile Launcher

[urban spire]

arbites haven't had much development

afaik

[vital kernel]

In literature they had.

some

[plush mason]

yeah afaik the judges in 3000ad are just the cops of the city where as the arbites in 40k function more as the FBI does

[storm jungle]

Judges are basically Judge, Jury and Executioner as the tagline of the comics say yeah

Arbites are just cops

they are more or so also a commentary on police brutality itself so it adds up

[urban spire]

the judges are an investigative body as well

[vital kernel]

The Varangantua series describes them as more of an overarching executive who prosecute people commiting segmentum level crimes, rather than petty criminals who are policed by local Enforcers

[plush mason]

which is exactly what the FBI does irl

[vital kernel]

yes

[plush mason]

all polices forces are

[vital kernel]

in the Steel and Faith book or whatever the Enforcer Protag goes pretty much "What is an Arbites doing in this neck of the woods?" when one walks out of his bosses office.

Enforcers take care of local Lex, Arbites make sure the Lex Imperialis is followed.

it's also a giveaway that it's the Adeptus Arbites, making them pretty much a federal agency rather than local law enforcement.

[urban spire]

petit inquisition

[plush mason]

yeah

iirc the head of the adeptus arbites is one of the high lords of terra

[vital kernel]

Yes, one of the permanent seats too.

Has to be said, Inquisitors do not enforce the law.

[urban spire]

inquisitors enforce their interpretation of the spirit of the imperium

the fact they have barely any oversight is why it's more sectarian than mormonism

[signal bramble]

The enforcers also keep an eye on the local government in case they start looking a little treacherous or misbehave.

[rich vale]

Any of you guys ever played the Space Marine ttrpg? I rolled up a random space marine chapter and the one I got was overstrength, like much higher than the limits they're supposed to have, and also had a strict ban on apothecaries. I'm kind of curious how bad that would be, cause I'm not super familiar with apothecaries in terms of their importance

Deathwatch I think it was called

[honest trellis]

hmm that's unconventional, apothecaries are maybe the signle most key marine ina chapter

they retrieve geneseed to make new marines, monitor piurity, and grow more for new marines

A weird chapter that's overstrength and doesn't have apothecaries probably has every Marine have basic knowledge of geneseed retrieval and implanation or something

since SOMEONE has to retrieve geneseed for a chapter to not die out/more Marines to be made

[dusk patrol]

They could also fold the role into another specialization.

Space Wolves combine their chaplains and apothecaries for example

But like Lucerne said they would have to have someone fulfil that role

[rich vale]

If I played one of these guys in a proper campaign I think I'd go with the idea of every marine having the basic knowledge cause it sounds pretty interesting, and fitting for such an unusual chapter.

[dusk patrol]

If the DM is ok you could probably see if you'd be allowed to have medicae advanced and +10 and +20 as your chapter advancement options.

Some of them at least, it'd make sense for that theme

And it would definitely be useful.

Especially if you're playing a class which can more easily get high intelligence.

[brittle slate]

Just remember inquisitor lords don’t even know the extent of the basics of the horus heresy

Such as: 18 primarchs?!?!? Wtf

[dusk patrol]

In that case it was 20 primarchs

If you're referring to the Vaults of Terra books

[acoustic kraken]

Just finished dawn of war, what order do I play dark crusade, soulstorm, and winter assualt?

[storm jungle]

Winter Assault > Dark Crusade > Soulstorm

thats the chronological order, after that Dawn of War 2 follows with it

[brittle slate]

I wasn’t- but I was also surprised that 20 were displayed in such an obvious place when they are supposed to be stricken from memory

[brittle slate]

Dark crusade is the best

[arctic talon]

Soul storm was terrible tbh

Compared to the other ones

[plush mason]

soulstorm had some great features and ideas but few of them where executed well

[storm jungle]

It was rushed so these are all correct.

its basically that Rick and Morty meme now

"What is my purpose?"

"You exist to be a ground for Ultimate Apocalypse Mods"

"Oh my god-"

"Yep."

[plush mason]

yeah it felt rushed

[storm jungle]

yeah 1 sec i got a good review

https://youtu.be/khMOgnvdpmQ

Here it is, full recommendation

[rose thorn]

That’s such a. Good channel I’m sad they don’t upload anymore

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah like he IS active

The guy is just doing mostly tabletop/codex content on Snipe & Wib with his gf or voice-acting for Alfabusa with Hunter the Parenting stuff

sadly though yeah the thunderpsyker channel is legit dead

[rose thorn]

Ohh sick! I didn’t know that

[storm jungle]

Yeee

https://www.youtube.com/@SnipeandWib/videos

Content's pretty good!

[brittle slate]

Lol- I know those guys… yeah.

[warm crest]

Sup

Bored

Who wants to hear my Imperium "ally" homebrew idea?

[honest trellis]

shoot

[signal bramble]

I love hearing homebrew stuff. But if it doesn’t work in some way I’ll also let you know.

[warm crest]

Nice

So, for the homebrew you must go way back into the peaking days of the Dark Age of Technology, where late era human colonists decided to make their homes on the western edges of the Milky Way galaxy.

[signal bramble]

It’s not a surviving human enclave with daot stuff that isnt part of the imperium and survived to this day is it?

[warm crest]

The colonists had the grand idea to found a massive superstate known as the Kohmak Combine, with the idea to implement their own pseudo empire to eventually launch incursions into other galaxies. They made a pact with the local peaceful xenos known colloquially as the Aqua Lungs, the pact specifies that they'd get to build their structures on the surface of Lungan worlds whilst the xenos get to "safely" stay under water

[faint scroll]

I have an idea
Space Marine successor chapter that likes to eat rocks.
What legion would they be from?

[warm crest]

Things were all fine and good for the Combine and they made big bucks manufacturing and selling Men of Iron superweapons to their rapidly increasing ally superstates. Partly to fund Project Spectra and to enrich their own coffers

[signal bramble]

Space wolves.

[faint scroll]

I was thinking like iron hands

Or salamanders

[warm crest]

But when the Age of Strife hit, it really hit hard. The entire Combine had to devolve from being a technologically advanced superstate into crazed techno barbarians who could not sustainably farm their lands due to their worlds being too industrialised

[silver hawk]

Fits but why so well though?

[warm crest]

Salamanders

Idk why but they unironically give off the vibe that molten magma is their steroids

[signal bramble]

Betting each other who could eat the most rocks sounds like something the wolves would do and it would somehow find itself becoming a tradition.

[warm crest]

Nah, I don't see the Space Wolves eating rocks tbh

More Salamanders on

Wait

[silver hawk]

Probably is in all homesty

[faint scroll]

What if they ate a soul stone

[warm crest]

@faint scroll

The World Eaters

Its literally in the name

[signal bramble]

Ayy

[faint scroll]

Maybe

[silver hawk]

The realization has hit

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[faint scroll]

They eat planets

One rock at a time

[signal bramble]

Planets are made of rocks.

Makes sense.

[faint scroll]

Iron warriors

[silver hawk]

They eat iron

Convince me otherwise

[honest trellis]

Okay so what happened

Colonists that split a planet with xenos, making weapons above the surface for sale....

[warm crest]

Nah man its more than likely true, gonna have to chew on something like gum to stave off the nail rages

[warm crest]

So the Age of Strife hit hard, and with most of their surface colonies scorched off or rendered inhospitable warsones, the Kohmak leaders decided to fuck over the xenos who honoured their treaty.

Kinda just leveraged what remaining troops they got and backstabbed them and made them slaves to grow food and manufacture new goods as the Combine burned

The more warlike Kohmak leaders used this opportunity to grow phat and strong, meaning that they eventually conquered or just subjugated all whom lack resources since they didnt want to backstab the lungs

As the cybernetic revolt wore on and the warp storms from the Eldar grew more hazardous, the God Machines relied upon by the Combine started failing and even the victorious leaders started degenerating their view of advanced sciences

[honest trellis]

How'd they get them from underwater

[warm crest]

Instead of machine worship like the Mechanicus, they started to worship STEM itself. Soon forming the STEM Fiefdoms and each fiefdoms becoming their own warring states built upon the exploitation of xenos

[warm crest]

Its not that hard with their Daot technology, kinda just bombed the seas from orbit with their superweapon in desperate Abbadon and not really caring about the full consequences. Then sending in cyborg troops to mop up

[honest trellis]

Okay so they flat out waged war enough to change the planet's climate

[warm crest]

When the Imperium came down to check on the Combine during the last years of the Great Crusade, the found the STEM fiefdoms to be heretical in their veneration of tech heresy and xeno tolerance

[honest trellis]

and their ideology is worship of technology and science...as themselves

[warm crest]

Pretty much it

[honest trellis]

okay STEM is a bit of a modern term that throws me off a bit

but you can have fun with this

the core idea of an empire backstabbing and enslaving former alien coresidents also fits as a gimmick

[warm crest]

The Combine lost the fight against the 30k Space Marines and eventually bent the knee to the Emperor. But since the Xenos were already subjugated and no longer a threat and that the Combine's region of space was difficult to traverse and pretty expensive to invest, they were left a vassal state that had to pay the tithe and follow official doctrine loosely. The STEM rulers all kept under tight watch by foreign Commissars and Inquisitors

[honest trellis]

Inquisitors weren't a thing yet, nor were Commissars btw

[warm crest]

For the tithe they send in batches of locally sourced Imperial Guardsmen whom are trained to operate advanced drone and teleportation technology. They have piss poor morale and even shittier melee skills than the Tau, they however, get to send in their Xeno slaves to do all the dirty footslogging work for them much to the disgust of the Ecclesiarchy, Astartes and the Mechanicus

[honest trellis]

That said Legions generally had their more unwilling conquests reduced to rubble/ killed off different approaches especially if the reason for the war was ideological

[warm crest]

Oh, maybe to the governors in charge of bringing the STEM Fiefdoms to heel then

[honest trellis]

which Legion did you have in mind for the conquest?

Also thematically

keep in mind the Imperium is a colonizer especially against defeated opponents

even in 30k they'd start trying to send people to get the locals to embrace the Imperial truth

install their own governors who rule with offworld flunkies

Basically try and break down the individuality of a world and make it more "Imperial"

[warm crest]

Honestly? With how technologically advanced the Combine was even after the Age of Strife and the downfall of their technological marvels, the Iron Hands Legion seem like the most likely candidate

And they do need more love from everyone

[warm crest]

Hmm also true, I suppose by 40k the Combine's hatred for their lesser Xeno underclass has been magnified tenfold. The Fiefdoms powers have also likely been eroded by the High Lords of Terra enough that they have become a puppet government

And taught that the Emperor himself is their true god as he had walked all fields and mastered them all

The whole gimmick for the Kohmak Combine is for them to be drone expert Guardsmen who rely on Xeno protectorate labor.

[brittle slate]

space marine's can eat rocks to self sustain ... lol

[vivid turtle]

do guardsmen ever carry shields

like what the ogryns have but smaller and for cqc with a short range gun

[celest dome]

In the IG I don't think we've seen the case, but the Navy does

As do the Arbites and the Enforcer

And also Crusader

[crisp heath]

yes, Cadians have been portrayed with shields and they have a group called "Whiteshields", mostly child soldiers, who are named after this. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe other worlds use shields, however.

[celest dome]

The white shield don't have shields

[crisp heath]

Whiteshields don't have shields, usually.

It's something they do on rare occasion. I'm trying to think of the story, but there was a short story where a Whiteshield grew up on a ship and he has a shield.

But I think it was in White Dwarf so it's entirely possible other authors don't even know it exists, which kind of makes it a moot point.

[celest dome]

Sure they can have a shield or something of the sort, but them being Cadian, or White Shield has nothing to do with that

It's not standard and a rarity

[crisp heath]

I thought maybe the story was actually called "whiteshield" but apparently that's a fanfic

[vivid turtle]

would be cool to have that for a vet class

a breacher of sorts with a riot shield and shotgun

[crisp heath]

That's more of the ogryn's job though, vets mostly act like snipers or traditional fps

[crisp heath]

Oh my god I love them. What regiment are they supposed to be?

Or I guess the second is an inquisitor?

[celest dome]

Arbites (Police)
Crusader (Cultist)

[crisp heath]

Oh. I thought they were supposed to be guardsmen.

Still, that's the best portrayal of an arbites I've seen. They're usually a lot more dorky and robo-coppy

[celest dome]

And Navy Breachers

With the Navy Endurant with the shield and shotgun

[vivid turtle]

those look cool

if i was more into the TT i'd get those

[celest dome]

Now that I think about it, i think there is an unit for the Solar Auxillia who has shields (And Skitarii)

[crisp heath]

But yeah I don't want a vet with shield mechanics. Imo, vet should focus on being simple and decent for people who like fps, while the complexity should fall in other classes. I don't play fps, so I'm bad at vet, but apparently I'm above average at zealot, and I think we should keep vet at that "easy to play" level.

[celest dome]

They are mostly for Kill Team

[celest dome]

I mostly want the wrapping attribution to be based on aesthetic and lore

Like Zealot Preacher with a Power Sword wouldn't really fit, but Zealot Crusader would make sense with it

[crisp heath]

Yeah! I want a redemptionist zealot because the Redeemer is one of my favorite characters in the setting.

[celest dome]

With additional weapon being 2h Power Sword or Power Halberd (As 2h PSword are supposed to be out already) and Sword and Stormshield

[crisp heath]

There are cosmetics you can buy that are very redemptionist and you get a flamer as a preacher though, so I don't have much hope for a redeemer subclass

[celest dome]

There is still chances for it

Like a class that is built around having close targets that are aflame

And giving a fixed fire attack with Incendiary grenades

[queen kindle]

I mean none of the classes right now are special

They're built around being generic af

Which is a good thing, because now we can start getting subclasses that specialize within classes

[crisp heath]

I am a little worried they'll continue to cap us at 4 characters though, which feels like a weird choice because your character is a thing that can be saved locally, and since youre playing one at a time it's not like loading a locally saved character will cause server strain

[queen kindle]

There are arleady 5 character slots

[crisp heath]

Oh? I didn't notice.

[queen kindle]

They have confirmed you will have an additional slot per class release

[celest dome]

Really when ?

[queen kindle]

You also can't and they shouldn't save characters locally

That would be awful

[celest dome]

They haven't said anything about class change at least

[queen kindle]

Cant remember exactly where I saw it to get a link, but it has definitely been confirmed

I think it was on one of the live streams

[crisp heath]

I mean steam has tools to stop you from messing with game files if the publisher wants that, and I can't see any other downside to a local character file.

[celest dome]

File corruption I suppose?

[queen kindle]

Steam has tools to let you verify file integrity but not parity

[crisp heath]

Oh yeah it can corrupt, but it's entirely possible to tie a backup to your steam account

[queen kindle]

Thats what an anti cheat is for

Which can be bypassed.

Steam doesn't scan individual files to make sure every bit of code inside it is fine, it uses a checkmark system to see if the file versions match, thats all.

[crisp heath]

I know hackers can ruin games, but I honestly feel like Darktide could slide because of the small party size and the fact that most of this community seems to play with friends. A lot of games survive with hacked public games, but people keep playing with their friends.

[queen kindle]

I would rather not have my experience ruined by hackers

[crisp heath]

I'm okay with hackers, because I'm fine with finding and building parties either online or with friends.

[queen kindle]

Okay great

[celest dome]

I would prefer to not have them

[queen kindle]

Not everyone wants to do that

[crisp heath]

Not to support hackers, I think they ruin a lot of peoples experience, but it's not going to make me like the game less

[brittle slate]

so, i'm just drunk eating cookies as the snow falls

but

i really think, if I looked objectively at GW lore, it's really going to need a 'spine'

a central storyline to latch onto that currently doesn't exist

if you look at the lore right now that person is guilliman- but frankly his story is kinda boring

and he's not really human anyway

[crisp heath]

Oh I'm the exact opposite. I like how spread out and un-focused it is. I like the idea that it's this big clump of ideas and you can pick out your favorites to accept.

[brittle slate]

Now, amidst the amazon purchase of the IP, the celebrity involvement, the absolute need to appeal to a general audience, the entirety of the Ip needs to get behind somethine

[brittle slate]

that might have worked in the early 2000's

but these days, i mean, just look at the hardliners trying to find some semblance of order amidst self-made retcons

[crisp heath]

Amazon did not purchase the IP. Amazon has purchased certain rights that will let them make a movie or tv series, but they have no control over tabletop, novels, or anything other than films

[brittle slate]

rather than a broad spectrum embrace of everything unless specifically called out (which is like... what, 2 times in 30 years?)

[celest dome]

It's not really a purchase, as it's not gonna let them decide of stuff

[crisp heath]

I like that. I like the "millions of worlds" idea, I like that anything is possible, and this is so important for tabletop gaming because you need so much room for homebrew.

[brittle slate]

it's an IP purchase- GW isn't going to be calling the shots

[brittle slate]

true, but that's not how a big show is going to work

a big show needs a big gun

[crisp heath]

We shit on GW a lot, but they gave more room for homebrew than DnD and continue to do so, and I'll be honest, the reason I stopped playing 5e DnD is because they were so strict and tried to cancel homebrew.

[brittle slate]

something that makes it matter

[brittle slate]

I don't see this

in fact, i see the opposite

ever since 30k started answering all the big mysteries

things are less home brew capable

[celest dome]

They'll still have veto power and stuff

[brittle slate]

that's not how IP purchase works

[celest dome]

Like with all the games they lend ip too

[brittle slate]

Which they also don't have

hence the "weird" lore

IP purchase allows for input (LotR) but not direction

[crisp heath]

I mean obviously the "big things" are going to have solid answers, but GW left so much room you can literally build your own human world. A whole world-building! You can make your own craftworld, you own Waagh, everything is open. The two lost primarchs literally exist so you can make unique space marines descended from them. There's issues with GW, but they've supported homebrew at every turn.

[celest dome]

Depend on the individual contract

[brittle slate]

like what? in the lat 6 years we've had a massive curtailing

the two primarchs are old hat- new lore has, if anything, narrowed, no?

[celest dome]

Fatshark for example said at the start that there are stuff they're not allowed to do, like change broader End Time lore

[brittle slate]

Amazon is never going to allow their platform to be dictated to. ever.

[celest dome]

Or involve named characters

[brittle slate]

Much larger IP's like Clancey or LotR are testament

[crisp heath]

yes, the new stuff is more narrow, and I think that's bad, but the fact remains that in 40k you can play anything sci-fi you want and it's very easy to justify that.

[brittle slate]

oh, agreed, but that's never changed

you can always play whatever you want