Codex be damned
#40k-lore-chat
honest trellis
brittle slate
c'mon thats a joke
dusk patrol
I can’t tell with this guy
I don’t think he is
Like, it’s impossible to tell what he’s even referencing half the time
brittle slate
the ultramarines and their successors are more intricately tied together than the dark angels
dusk patrol
He twists and mangles the lore so bad
honest trellis
Reminder that canonically UM successors directly take orders from Macragge
vital kernel
How is that even supposed to work? The Ultramarines just have by far the most numerous successors.
dusk patrol
the ultramarines and their successors are more intricately tied together than th...
They’re not
honest trellis
directly supply minions to macragge
honest trellis
constantly have UM transferring over to take command
dusk patrol
And the Blood Angels
proud mango
He twists and mangles the lore so bad
ah sorry i'm not a lore expert 😛
dusk patrol
The Dark Angels are straight up just a legion still basically
honest trellis
and Bangel successors often do tell the Bangels to fuck off
dusk patrol
ah sorry i'm not a lore expert 😛
Not referring to you
lilac wave
In truth no SM legion was totally broken up. Like, no legion with a living primarch can actually be fragmented. They'll do what daddy says no matter what.
dusk patrol
and Bangel successors often do tell the Bangels to fuck off
Yes and plenty of UN successors don’t give a damn about the UM
vital kernel
Reminder that canonically UM successors directly take orders from Macragge
How is that any different from the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves etc. They all operate like that.
The Imperial Fists were reestablished from successor chapters even.
dusk patrol
The first founding chapters all have more power than others
honest trellis
How is that any different from the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves etc. ...
Because the Feast of Blades isn't the same as "basically just Macragge's cannon fodder in all but name"
Also the Wolves didn't have successors for ages so an odd namedrop
Point is when your codex compliance is closer to the dark angels than the Blood Angels
you may be a bit hypocritical
vital kernel
Also the Wolves didn't have successors for ages so an odd namedrop
Yes, because they just remained together.
dusk patrol
The Blood Angels literally had all their successors come die for Baal
And then remade the chapter
Same with the Imperial Fists
And the Last Wall protocol
earnest snow
Tyranids hit different at Baal
proud mango
And the Last Wall protocol
what's that about?
honest trellis
Last Wall is explicitly an exception for Terra so it's a rather false comparison
dusk patrol
If it wasn’t for Primaris, they would have just taken marines from every chapter
vital kernel
The Blood Angels literally had all their successors come die for Baal
this, it's nothing special. Successors often take the bullet for their progenitor chapter
honest trellis
given UM lore has their successors constantly exist just to be cannon fodder taking marching orders from first founding officers
dusk patrol
Last Wall is explicitly an exception for Terra so it's a rather false comparison
No it’s more it doesn’t fit your narrative so it doesn’t count
If the UM had it you would be bringing it up
barren tapir
Poor scythes of the emperor, nearly got destroyed
vital kernel
UM successors often act as cannonfodder because they are the most numerous and expendable for BL writers.
dusk patrol
what's that about?
Basically when Terra is in mortal danger they declare it
honest trellis
nah like I'm talking cannon fodder in the sense of "their own lore blurbs stress how they're slaves to UM"
dusk patrol
And all IF successors are obliged to come help
vital kernel
it's not like Roboute wrote that into the Codex, as you yourself mentioned it's not Codex Compliant behaviour
proud mango
And all IF successors are obliged to come help
oh cool
dusk patrol
Defend the Throneworld and all that
honest trellis
Yes that's my point
the UM are not codex compliant
they're hypocrites
this dates back to Robute's power grab
dusk patrol
They never claim to be 100^
dusk patrol
It wasn’t supposed that way
proud mango
Well I can't wait for the storyline where the Templars turn around and say they're launching a crusade to purge terra of Guilliman's heresy 😛
celest dome
Isn't the Codex more suggestions and guide lines than rules? And Guilliman himself said so ?
honest trellis
Bruh their lore literally has them as flouting Legion restrictions, not sure how much more blatant it could get
vital kernel
this dates back to Robute's power grab
Powergrab from whomst`?
honest trellis
Isn't the Codex more suggestions and guide lines than rules? And Guilliman hims...
He started a civil war to enforce it
tired umbra
There ain't a snowballs chance in hell for the Templars to launch a crusade against Rouboute.
honest trellis
and chapters that flout it can be killed over it, see also: badab justifications against Astral Claws
part of it's the tithe, part of it's the fact huron stopped giving a shit about chapter limits
barren tapir
Isn't the Codex more suggestions and guide lines than rules? And Guilliman hims...
Yes, but got taken as literal rules to follow by some, and UM also made a change to it after the tyrannic war, so no they are not hypocrites, they use it as ruleset to follow, but also to adapt on the field
honest trellis
Huron literally cited Ultramarine nonsense to defend his actions
vital kernel
Astral Claws were defying tithes from the Lords of Terra. Nobody really enforces the details of the Codex Astartes.
honest trellis
nah
it's in imperial armor
the codex limits were one of the reasons he got dinged too
the tithes were the first straw
the legion building was the last
vital kernel
Astral Claws got into trouble because they were not sending Geneseed. If they had just paid their denbts they could have continued their shenanigans for a while.
honest trellis
"The Consistorial Court found all of those Chapters who had taken part in the Badab Secession guilty in breaking with both the Codex Astartes and the ancient covenant it represented."
emphasis on for a while
Like the tithes were just what blew their cover
barren tapir
Yes, but legion building is prohibited by the imperial law too, not only by the codex, which btw, doesn't state that it is wrong, it state that each chapter should be 1k SM, legion building is imperial law
vital kernel
The Codex Astartes was designed to keep any one Commander from obtaining Legion power. The Badab War is that rule working as intended.
honest trellis
Yes and it's Imperial law because Robute played games to make sure there weren't other Legions left intact
barren tapir
We have tons of examples of non compliant chapters that doesn't get attacked
honest trellis
Robute basically cut down any rivals than accidentally got himself killed
dusk patrol
It was explicitly the legion building and not sending of tithes which started the war
barren tapir
That is BS, since the unforgiven act still like a legion and the last wall too
dusk patrol
That is BS, since the unforgiven act still like a legion and the last wall too
No but it’s different
barren tapir
Blood angels are linked with each other by the flaws
barren tapir
The only ones that didn't had something similar were the legions that got decimated
honest trellis
Last Wall is completely meaningless as an example due to by definition not being their operation procedure, even during conclaves every time the Bangels have their successors be extremely independent, and yeah the dark angels don't give a damn
but when the closest example to UM behavior is dark angels
vital kernel
Yes and it's Imperial law because Robute played games to make sure there weren't...
There weren't any other Legions intact because there weren't any other trustworthy Primarchs intact either.
honest trellis
they may not be being entirely honest
honest trellis
There weren't any other Legions intact because there weren't any other trustwort...
Bruh literally anyone not Robute
had been doing a better job
It's spelled out that people saw him playing politics for power post-siege (black books)
barren tapir
Dorn was too shame struck to be capable to do stuff outside of piling bricks
vital kernel
That sounds like headcanon. What great works of Legislature did Khan, Lion and Russ leave the Imperium=
barren tapir
And it wasn't even capable to lead its legion since it lead them to the iron cage
vital kernel
The Primarchs were never *meant* to be rulers
Some were.
tired umbra
Roboute was totally meant to be an administrator
barren tapir
Lion was too busy goind to nap
honest trellis
And it wasn't even capable to lead its legion since it lead them to the iron cag...
The iron cage literally, explicitly happens because Guilliman pushes Dorn into a corner where it's that or start a civil war with his bootlicks!
earnest snow
Well you see. When things aren't going as planned you gotta improvise
tired umbra
Lucerne. I gotta ask. Did someone named Roboute toilet swirl you in school or something?
dusk patrol
The iron cage literally, explicitly happens because Guilliman pushes Dorn into a...
Wow
honest trellis
Like the whole point of the Cage is Dorn chooses it rather than start another civil war with Guilliman's bootlickers!
tired umbra
Why the hate boner for the dude?
dusk patrol
It’s somehow Guillimans fault that Dorn rushed in and got half his men killed
vital kernel
The iron cage literally, explicitly happens because Guilliman pushes Dorn into a...
Lol, but it happened because Dorn wouldn't yield power to Imperial Administration.
honest trellis
the Bobby G stanning is everything wrong with 40k readership tbh
dusk patrol
God
barren tapir
The iron cage literally, explicitly happens because Guilliman pushes Dorn into a...
BS, that was Dorn wanting revenge and being incapable to get it, he was also a brick in not seeing the importance to give some semblance of peace and stability to the imperium
dusk patrol
Hilarious
honest trellis
BS, that was Dorn wanting revenge and being incapable to get it, he was also a b...
oh lord do I need to dig up the quotes
dusk patrol
Dude the Heresy is actually Guillimans fault
earnest snow
Guilliman blew up cadia
dusk patrol
Great Crusade? Guilliman
earnest snow
Abaddon is guilliman
tired umbra
Slaanesh was birthed by Guilliman
vital kernel
Dude the Heresy is actually Guillimans fault
Guilliman did the Horus Heresy because he pushed Horus to become Warmaster and start a war.
for his own gain
earnest snow
Guilliman did darktide
dusk patrol
Guillimans alter ego? John Darktide
Anyways this is why Lucerne gets banned from 40k servers regularly
He’s a clown
earnest snow
honest trellis
Funny you say that- because people hate your guts enough for it to come up in casual conversation
barren tapir
oh lord do I need to dig up the quotes
The quote where Dorn say "i'm too dense to understand this is the best option and wanna come to blow with one that is better than me at managing states and stuff and instead i wanna go on a suicide charge so to convince my sons that would do what i say nonetheless to split to not endager what we worked so hard to forge in the first place"? I know of that quote
dusk patrol
Well fortunately no one talks about you at all
barren tapir
Guilliman went back in time and started the War in Heaven guys
And all this because he wanted to clap some eldar cheeks
barren tapir
Ah, so you both knew each other before uh
dusk patrol
Guilliman is the Attack Titan
barren tapir
What are you big G and and big D?
dusk patrol
Ah, so you both knew each other before uh
There’s a couple other people from a different discord here
honest trellis
The funny part is I literally have no idea who this idiot is
they're just apparently that memorable
barren tapir
But you said that his name come up in other discussions
dusk patrol
He got banned for being endlessly negative and faction bashing with his own bizzare head canon
Which can never actually be supported
Anyways it’s amusing that he’s still the same
barren tapir
From which place, we should also consider that... If i go on DA server and start telling them they are all traitor i'm gonna get banned, but i would still be partially right
dusk patrol
It’s just a 40k server
barren tapir
Fair
dusk patrol
The rules are mostly don’t be toxic about factions, don’t faction bash
barren tapir
I hope there is an exception for eldar emperor dammit!!
vital kernel
except Word Bearers, fuck those losers
barren tapir
And word bearers of course, i always forget them
dusk patrol
Anyways, Cholo is right about not bringing up old drama
Especially because I can just call out the silly ass stuff they’re saying here
honest trellis
Keep whinging
vital kernel
lets discuss the best chapter
dusk patrol
Those aren’t Minotaurs
signal bramble
Or Dark Angels.
vital kernel
Those aren’t Minotaurs
Correct, they are not for obvious reasons.
honest trellis
ouch
barren tapir
Ah! I see your space sharks, whatever is a shark anyway, and improve with shipping the Tome Keepers
honest trellis
TBH the Sharks are niche enough that you can basically do whatever with them from their Imperial armor lore blurb
brittle slate
You used to
vital kernel
Just luv' me voidborne Chapters
honest trellis
nomad-predation ftw
brittle slate
GW decided mysteries was for cucks
vital kernel
Chapter Homeworlds are cringe af
dusk patrol
They’re pretty solidly RG now
brittle slate
Exorcists are fists
dusk patrol
New Exorcist stuff just
It’s not all bad
But the bad stufff….
Also Banish being named Banish before they become what they are now
WHY
honest trellis
Exorcists are fists
TBH their geneseed was never really what made them the Exorcists
barren tapir
Krieg are jurgen, and jurgen is krieg
Lets rename the world to jurgen too
You cannot have too much jurgen
Mystery? It was pretty much certain they were clones before too
It was so when i first met the lore nearly... Jeezuz fuck, nearly 14 years ago
vital kernel
aren't they quasi-clones at best?
barren tapir
They supplement their numbers heavily with clones yes, but there are also normal born among them
In general fucking on krieg, like on cadia, was part of your duties
No, you couldn't dodge such duties
vital kernel
IIRC most females on Krieg get harvested of their eggs and those get artificially implanted into the vitaewombs or something
barren tapir
From a description of vitaewomb i once saw they seemed to resemble what they had in the film "the island"
Also, it was initially tech given to krieg by the Ad. Mech. and considered borderline heresy by them, so it was a big concession that was made to krieg
tired umbra
I bet that rat bastard Rouboute somehow fucked up the Krieg as well
honest trellis
You're not very bright, are you?
signal bramble
IIRC most females on Krieg get harvested of their eggs and those get artificiall...
That is not correct.
tired umbra
Brighter than Guilliman
vital kernel
Also, it was initially tech given to krieg by the Ad. Mech. and considered borde...
Isn't vitae womb cloning basically standard practice on most Forge Worlds?
signal bramble
Per the Krieg novel, the vast majority of them are clones of Colonel Jurten who originally lead the krieg loyalists and nuked the planet. He was also against cloning but when he died a tech priest lied and said he was ok with being cloned once he died.
barren tapir
Isn't vitae womb cloning basically standard practice on most Forge Worlds?
Once cloning was considered heresy, then lore changed
Because honestly it was a dumb thing
honest trellis
The Lyons novel?
signal bramble
aren't they quasi-clones at best?
No. Most of them are clones of the same guy.
signal bramble
The Lyons novel?
Yes.
And at this point it stands to reason the clones outnunber the natural born by a significant amount.
barren tapir
You know, i could have lived without seeing that too
signal bramble
At least spoiler an image like that.
barren tapir
That is also a wise thing
signal bramble
Once cloning was considered heresy, then lore changed
Cloning seems more controversial than anything. The Admech on mars use it all the time while others consider it heretical.
vital kernel
it's not explicit, this is a discord dedicated to a game about cutting zombies into meaty bricks, let's not be such hypocritical prudes
signal bramble
Yeah but I don’t post images of the game at work. :p
It doesn’t bother me but it can send the wrong message.
dusk patrol
plush mason
lol
meager zinc
Do the primarchs even have genitals?
north lotus
“The omnisiah’s pleasure assistant”
dusk patrol
Do the primarchs even have genitals?
So Fulgrim did have several political marriages on Chemos, who he says he did love for how sort they were
From his POV
But whether or not he consummated them?
We have no clue
north lotus
I don’t think the women would survive.
dusk patrol
Russ and Fulgrim imo are the two likeliest to have had sex primarchs
Women on Fenris are built different
meager zinc
I mean its never been confirmed the emperor laid a single pipe. And the only kids hes had were clones.
north lotus
Russ and Fulgrim imo are the two likeliest to have had sex primarchs
Kurze as well, from the “I can fix him daddy” angle, but that’s highly unlikely
meager zinc
So i dunno if big E would clone em to wanna have sex either?
dusk patrol
Anyways, GW doesn’t address it besides that
So we don’t really know
Magnus is definitely a virgin though
Lorgar is saving himself for marriage still
north lotus
Magnus is definitely a virgin though
Perterabo probably never understood what sex was…he’s almost that autistic.
earnest snow
Idk how someone would survive the absolute majestical strength behind emperor or the primarchs busting it down with whoever is unfortunate enough to be the receiver of it. Granted it could have been the other way around if a primarch had that secret bottom energy.
dusk patrol
And I’m gonna be honest
meager zinc
So we don’t really know
I mean Slaanesh was created to know and a trying to know 24/7
dusk patrol
That’s as much as I wanna discuss primarch sex today
earnest snow
This is real lore
meager zinc
That’s as much as I wanna discuss primarch sex today
That type of attitude is why slaanesh is winning
north lotus
This is real lore
NOW ANSWER, IS GUILIMAN A BREAST OR ASS MAN
dusk patrol
I feel like it’s the opposite
earnest snow
NOW ANSWER, IS GUILIMAN A BREAST OR ASS MAN
None he has a thing for eldar ears
meager zinc
NOW ANSWER, IS GUILIMAN A BREAST OR ASS MAN
BUT DONT THINK ABOUT IT TOO HARD, CUZ YKNOW CHAOS
crisp heath
I mean its never been confirmed the emperor laid a single pipe. And the only kid...
The emperor has descendants made the old fashioned way, but it was weird and current lore says the inquisition killed/captured them all for being mutants
earnest snow
How did the person even survive the whole ordeal
I'm not even joking how do you survive doing it with big E
meager zinc
You grit your teeth
And acitvate your core
And maintain a constant breathing pattern
crisp heath
I really like the idea that the Emperor is like 5 foot 6 and but walks around projecting a 10 foot tall hologram in golden armor with a holy aura because he's insecure
earnest snow
When the rest of the lore has been done to death, GW will have to answer these questions
nocturne crest
The emperor is actually the big Lebowski
meager zinc
"sorry babe, my golden armor STAYS on"
crisp heath
Ngl I don't like men but there's something kinda oomf about the way manlet emperor is described in books
nocturne crest
Does the imperium actually have any sporting events?
earnest snow
Uhhh they have...
meager zinc
Uh work quotas
earnest snow
Chase the mutant?
Beat the heretic instead of beat the pinata?
They're all angry so rugby is a given
Uhhh
meager zinc
Im sure kids kick a ball in some abandoned shaft from time to time
earnest snow
...primaris really love American football
crisp heath
The Cain books say that valhallans play something called scrumball
meager zinc
Football probably gets rediscovered 1000s of times
crisp heath
Also sport hunting is huge in the imperium and I'm sure there's hunting competitions between upper class people
nocturne crest
Are they hunting animals or just heretics.
crisp heath
Are they hunting animals or just heretics.
Same thing
nocturne crest
Good point.
meager zinc
Hey if we kick a ball between a space and count it as a point, this could be fun
earnest snow
Uhhh wrestling is popular with the custodes.
Just don't interrupt otherwise they will supplex you
meager zinc
I bet you skateboarding is everywhere
crisp heath
Ok i just looked up scrumball, it's not a valhallan thing. Apparently they play it at the Schola, it's supposed to be a high school rugby type thing
meager zinc
Lolll drop in offa astartes statue
crisp heath
Cain apparently got a concussion during a game with Sisters in training
crisp heath
There are legal and illegal gladiator pits all over the imperium if you want to count that as a sport
brittle slate
On an unrelated note but just weird things found in 40k
Tau really love puppet shows
crisp heath
I mean they're allied with cannibalistic Muppets so it's not a shock
nocturne crest
Like punch and Judy or thunderbirds level of puppets?
brittle slate
There are imperial action figures that have the space marine toy programmed to win little duels
devout oxide
brittle slate
Seriously there's no way Kroot aren't those things from Dark Crystal
The sketsi? Nah- they’re from magic the gathering
crisp heath
Oh! The necrons also play warhammer 40k in-universe
nocturne crest
Doesn't the iron warriors play it as well?
crisp heath
Iron Warriors are playing like, actual military wargames, like designed to reflect actual war
We dont know much about the Necron version but it's more of a hobby and they keep their minis in display cases lol
nocturne crest
Ah.
brittle slate
Like punch and Judy or thunderbirds level of puppets?
I think it’s like thunderbirds. There’s only one vague description of them in an early lore but they become childlike with their enthusiasm
The puppet stories generally depict various legends of how the ethereals came and united the various tribes
Also? Tau love alcohol. There’s something like 7 different types and they experience drunkness for just a little while because they filter out toxins so quick but humans get wrecked
honest trellis
Per the Krieg novel, the vast majority of them are clones of Colonel Jurten who ...
Having read the novel the specifics of who the donors are seems rather vague? And I don't think we see the mechanics of vitae wombs?
signal bramble
Having read the novel the specifics of who the donors are seems rather vague? An...
No it’s not vague.
brittle slate
We don’t. And they’re all clones of one guy
honest trellis
Like Jurten obviously is a donor by text as written
signal bramble
They also state he’s the template they use.
crisp heath
I don't even think Krieg are supposed to be perfect "clones". They have their DNA shuffled because clones in the 40k are really mentally unstable.
honest trellis
They also state he’s the template they use.
Chapter/general section?
crisp heath
"artificially" born and templated off other people, sure, and in a sense that's cloning but they aren't all carbon copies of one guy
signal bramble
Chapter/general section?
Good question. I only do audiobooks.
honest trellis
lemme rephrase, start, middle or end, re: specific? :p
signal bramble
It’s near the end when they start talking about needing numbers.
Trying to find an excerpt in an 10-11 hour audio book isn’t something I’m willing to do. XD
nocturne crest
So what is how free are you in t'au society?
honest trellis
this?
crisp heath
The more times you clone a person, the crazier they become, because the soul is a real, measurable factor in 40k and even if they aren't doing the whole "implanted memories" thing like Cawl and Bile do, they're still constantly resurrecting and degrading the psyche of the original person which would be reflected in the clones
Qvo is already pretty weird and he's only been cloned 88 times, I can't imagine what Kriegers are like if they're one guy who was cloned millions of times
Given that there are also female Kriegers, it's probably more likely they're just using his DNA as a base and adding in the other half of the genome from other Kriegers
nocturne crest
Shit.
Imagine what ferrus must be like then?
After being cloned and killed by Fulgrim.
signal bramble
this?
Something like that and the inquisitor lackey that sees them without their mask implies they all look the same by my interpretation.
signal bramble
So what is how free are you in t'au society?
You have your job and set responsibilities that you are expected to carry out. You will do so. However, you have a better quality of life, automation, and aren’t expected to spend your downtime praying to the emperor.
honest trellis
It's not explicit though, yeah?
Like there definitely seem to be Jurten clones, enough to make mask removals awkward
but it's all implication
signal bramble
So once your shift is over, you can probably do what you want.
edgy abyss
you've done it horus, you really are the warhammer 40k
barren tapir
The more times you clone a person, the crazier they become, because the soul is ...
This depend more on what author write it, some like do do that cloning make the people mad because weird stuff with the warp, others don't
honest trellis
But I don't think they're all Jurtens
signal bramble
The more times you clone a person, the crazier they become, because the soul is ...
It’s not a copy of a copy though. It’s a copy of the master copy each time.
honest trellis
less star wars clone army, more at least one template?
signal bramble
Im convinced there’s the ideal template of Jurten.
And I’m convinced that gets used the most.
honest trellis
The text is a bit ambiguous about specifics though, innit?
Unless I missed something
crisp heath
hi im new to dark tide and am wondering what are the differences between the planets
crisp heath
im planing on playing zealot so dose anything effect that
arctic talon
only cosmetic
vital kernel
hi im new to dark tide and am wondering what are the differences between the pla...
In essence each of the planets is the archetype of common imperial worlds throughout the galaxy.
In my humble opinion, the homeworlds much like the upbringings and early careers serve as a subtle loredump to introduce people unfamiliar with 40k to the setting.
The choices are effectively less than cosmetic, but very informative.
crisp heath
what is the lore of the planets
vital kernel
The text snippets in the planet choice section tell you
crisp heath
or any videos that explane the planets in more depth
vital kernel
there isn't really that much more to explain than the planetary descriptions already do, nor is there very much more information available except for Cadia.
You have the basic archetype planets: Shrineworld, Mining World, Agri World, Industrial World, Oceanic World, Newly Colonized World, thinly populated pilgrimage World
basically, you can look up those planetary archetypes on the associated 40k wikis for more indepth analysis, but I think the games descriptions do a decent job of it
crisp heath
ok thanks
barren tapir
there isn't really that much more to explain than the planetary descriptions alr...
Newly colonized world is called frontier world in lore most of the time, just adding on it
crisp heath
And one example of No World 
brittle slate
So what is how free are you in t'au society?
Huh?
brittle slate
cadians get purple eyes
Well… not anymore
brittle slate
less star wars clone army, more at least one template?
It’s just old Star Wars clones.
Basically rampancy.
north lotus
cadians get purple eyes
From warp exposure.
tired umbra
Heretics and criminals.
Still humans
plush mason
so i assume Sefoni would have to be a very powerful psyker to do what she does yes?
brittle slate
But probably not that unique in the scheme of things
dusk patrol
Yeah out of the norm but not like absurdly rare
brittle slate
I would think a librarian would be just as if not more powerful
plush mason
yeah that is what im thinking
she would have to be up there but not way up on the scale
btw in one of my missions the 2 psykers on my team mentioned something called the "psykic awakening" and how psykers may just end up being the majority in the imperium
rose thorn
I hope we get more xenos factions in warhammer
plush mason
i assume this awakening is the result of the great rift?
rose thorn
I love the unique aliens in warhammer they are always great
The squats really are super cool and I’m glad they aren’t apart of the imperium
slender orchid
i assume this awakening is the result of the great rift?
In part. But the Emperor and others knew it would happen eventually
slender orchid
It is another of the ticking doomsday clocks in 40k. If the Imperium as it currently exists becomes overwhelmingly psychic, then it would make the Fall of the Eldar look mild. Big evil human Chaos God.
Big E was trying to make humans into rational, independent beings so as to not generate that kind of awfulness. Irony of him BEING the potential human Chaos God now is... Great.
plush mason
LOL
like this fact makes a lot of what he was doing in the great crusade a lot more understandable actually
btw is there a copy of the ordo hereticus oath i can read?
well that happened lol
signal bramble
i assume this awakening is the result of the great rift?
The rift causes a ton of chaos energy to pour in to the material realm and while big E knew that humanity would eventually evolve in to a psychic race, the Awakening is more psykers to be born, random people that weren't psychic are manifesting powers, and the people that were already psykers are growing stronger and stronger every day.
honest trellis
TBH the psyker thing had been happening since Old Night
sinful crater
sooner the psyker in our team will mutate into something crazy for sure
honest trellis
The Emperor never had anything approaching an answer
TBH fully psychic species isn't actually a bad end
it takes effort to fuck up as badly as the Eldar
north lotus
it takes *effort* to fuck up as badly as the Eldar
All it took was the eldar becoming a boomer generation
sinful crater
when everything is perfect it when everything can be screwed far easier...
storm jungle
TBH fully psychic species isn't actually a bad end
Its mostly bad with humans because they aren't exactly controlled.
sinful crater
perfection lead to apathy, apathy will lead to stupid thing
storm jungle
^
more or less this
like if i had psyker powers im pretty sure id go mad with power lol
it always corrupts
sinful crater
that a sad truth that is universal.... power always corrupt.
storm jungle
Yep alas
its always good to find a middle point but 99.9% of the time it always ends the same way with power usually
plush mason
like if i had psyker powers im pretty sure id go mad with power lol
i guess that would depend on the powers you had tbch. like if you could read minds you would likely go insane seeing how stupid people really are lol
storm jungle
Oh yeah it would really depend
like if i could shoot lightning compared to mind-reading thats another whole deal
sinful crater
ignorance is bliss, the moment people will notice how screwed them system is.... it will end badly
plush mason
which is exactly how most civilizations fell irl
sinful crater
we have a good example with internet... before internet get any information was not easy, then it's simpler for gouvernement to turn bad. but as people get access to information more easily you will have them notice stupid stuff.... but at the same time since everyone have access to this it's easy to manipulate information.
if everyone turn psyker they will have access more easily to knowledge but at the same time anyone can manipulate it and turn lie into truth.
plush mason
actually history is filled with great examples. every civilization that fell in the past fell due to internal problems
storm jungle
Yeah its how most Imperials are kept "in line" for the most part like the medieval times. Dumb/ignorant people are always easier to gather en masse and indoctrinate with things like religion and authority.
crisp heath
i assume this awakening is the result of the great rift?
Yeah the psychic awakening happened when the Great Rift opened. It was basically a wave of psychic energy that created new psykers, gave already existing psykers a power boost, and injured the tyranid hivemind itself
plush mason
no not my hungry bois :c
sinful crater
and that why too uprising is on rise in the imperium
crisp heath
Oh and it made dragons real somehow
storm jungle
Yeah well to quote one of my favorite psyker lines
plush mason
Oh and it made dragons real somehow
what
storm jungle
plush mason
so fen fang fume is in 40k now?
crisp heath
technically there were already dragons, but now you can have a pseudodragon familiar if you're familiar with DnD
sinful crater
by the way do we know the date the event of darktide happend?
sinful crater
for know if the 10th edition will impact us or not
brittle slate
Oddly there are a lot of human psykers in the tau commonwealth
plush mason
shortly after cadia fell it seems given the cadian vet was literally on the planet as it broke
or well was one of the evacuees
storm jungle
for know if the 10th edition will impact us or not
Its during the Plague Wars and atm in current lore that has more or so wrapped up
mostly with Guilliman killing Morty and sending him back to the Warp
and it took over like centuries so our characters will be long dead by then probably
sinful crater
well... yes and no... warp travel can still be something a bit messy
sinful crater
morrow seems to be quite old because his transport was messed up by the warp
crisp heath
ok, since we mentioned psykers
storm jungle
morrow seems to be quite old because his transport was messed up by the warp
Yeah he was at Hades Hive
crisp heath
Do y'all prefer soulless blanks or negative souled blanks
plush mason
i mean did they not do a massive retcon of the recent timeline or something? been seeing a lot of hate about something like that online
brittle slate
morrow seems to be quite old because his transport was messed up by the warp
That’s still rare though
brittle slate
i mean did they not do a massive retcon of the recent timeline or something? bee...
Yes
We were supposed to be 112 years after the rift
They majorly retconned to 10/12 years
storm jungle
^
crisp heath
yeah it's much earlier in M42 now
sinful crater
That’s still rare though
yeah, i know, what i means by this, it's they can use this card about us for allows us to face enemy in different part of the sector in later timeline
honest trellis
Do y'all prefer soulless blanks or negative souled blanks
negative soul
storm jungle
It was one of the recent massive retcons
plush mason
lol
storm jungle
to the point that like
crisp heath
negative soul
king shit
plush mason
LOL
storm jungle
I got a copy of one 
honest trellis
the whole point of a pariah is that they're basically anti-mages
honest trellis
A lot of events don’t make sense
we dark souls now
the flow of time is convoluted in Drangelic Imperium Sanctus
plush mason
what was the reason for the retcon?
sinful crater
funny part is pariah is the best tool for destroy demon and they are still killed in the imperium instead to be used...
honest trellis
so the setting isn't "lol Imperium wins for 100 years"
crisp heath
We need a blank book that's not written by Abnett, there are implications to consider with the blanks
honest trellis
Abnett is fine with them
he did more interesting things than the rest of the writer stable
Blanks unironically are the best setting win button
crisp heath
I hate Abnett's interpretation of blanks except for the fact that he introduced the concept of the negative soul
plush mason
so the setting isn't "lol Imperium wins for 100 years"
oh ok thats better than i was expecting
brittle slate
what was the reason for the retcon?
Inconsistent leadership at GW
Kelly wanted to do a big bang to do a restart to the universe
plush mason
Inconsistent leadership at GW
well that is a given but i was talking about the reasons said leadership had lol
sinful crater
the trouble with GW lore is too many people decide what happend to the chronologie... they need to have a chronologie fixed written by a small number and all the story inserted into it.
brittle slate
40k was heading toward a big shake up
New characters, new events
And they decided people might not like it
crisp heath
Bequin is only a blank when it's convenient for plot, I'll put it like that. There should be way more consequences for her working so closely with psykers and she should probably be borderline unable to go undercover considering being around her is literally an attack on the core of your being
sinful crater
And they decided people might not like it
well i guess the end of time didn't teach them anything
brittle slate
well i guess the end of time didn't teach them anything
What do you mean?
sinful crater
reboot the whole warhammer 40000, it's like trying to pull another end of time and we know how the fan of warhammer did enjoy this...
brittle slate
It wouldn’t have been like that
And arguably the great rift is the same kind of event
crisp heath
I think people would react better to a 40k reboot than the End Times, and besides, the reason the End Times flopped so badly is because it was rushed and confusing
brittle slate
Yes
plush mason
yeah 40k wont get an endtimes because it is still profitable
brittle slate
As much as 8th edition was
Fantasy has always been profitable it just doesn’t do the numbers 40k does
storm jungle
Yeah basically 40k will only get nuked when its a dead-end and isnt making money.
Fantasy got fucked because the tabletop was shit
like
literally unplayable
plush mason
yeah
crisp heath
Instead of The Horus Heresy, I would've liked them to introduce something like Warhammer 50k, set after the Imperium has fallen. They don't even have to replace the old setting, just run the two alongside each other.
brittle slate
If anything, AOS is more profitable because the DND crowd now uses them
sinful crater
the great rift is for shake a bit the base of what was the world i can live with this, i means if you think about it the space marine was the same for soo long with little to not evolution, when other faction like nids, tau, necron was getting tons of tool
storm jungle
AOS is making BIG bucks yeah
mostly because its very easy to get into
also the kick-ass models help
I dont even like AOS and even i can admit that 
crisp heath
AoS lore has found it's niche recently too and is getting a pretty good
plush mason
good
crisp heath
GW also said that their focus in 2023 will be tyranid content and it's just like,,, finally,,,
sinful crater
ohhh my the hivemind will make a come back gonna be fun
brittle slate
Eh
proud mango
Instead of The Horus Heresy, I would've liked them to introduce something like W...
ah yeah like a new civil war within the imperium or something or like a situation like the successors of alexander, Guilliman's Empire, The Anti-Guilliman Empire and the Eclesiarch Empire, with mechanus loyalty spread across the different factions
crisp heath
I'm weirdly hopeful for the future, which I don't usually feel for 40k stuff. Actually looking forward to new releases in video games and excited for some of the lore.
crisp heath
I just want good xenos content 😭
sinful crater
it still possible, some stuff seems to hint to the return to a few more primarch
crisp heath
I'm tired of spess marine vs kayoss
brittle slate
I'm weirdly hopeful for the future, which I don't usually feel for 40k stuff. Ac...
I wish. I don’t like a lot of decisions they’ve made in the last 3 years
sinful crater
and who know if the imperium will not become 2 different imperium
honest trellis
The Imperium needs to fall already
at least Nihilus
the "IoM always wins and dominates the galaxy" angle is played out
IoM should basically stop existing in Nihilus
brittle slate
There’s been, weirdly, almost no lore that really matters in the last 3 years
proud mango
i'd like to see more eldar stuff
sinful crater
IoM always win? dominate the galaxy? are you serious here?
brittle slate
And end times was a big nothing
honest trellis
Absolutely lol
Like if you actually pay attention the setting has a hilarious pro-Imperial bias
and the assumption is the Imperium is always controlling these worlds
when really it doesn't need all those segmentums
better to let other factions have that territory
brittle slate
Blow up cadia? We got two more
plush mason
Like if you actually pay attention the setting has a hilarious pro-Imperial bias
i mean a lot of the lore is literally written as imperial propaganda so
crisp heath
Yeah that's why I want a 50k or otherwise post-imperium setting. The Imperium has been on the edge of collapse for 40 real world years. Advance that plot. You don't have to get rid of it entirely, but show us that it's in actual danger.
brittle slate
Lost your entire chapter? Bing! Primaris
honest trellis
i mean a lot of the lore is literally written as imperial propaganda so
The problem is when the novel writers are writing like Imperial propagandists
and Imperial propaganda gets treated as true by said writers, out of setting
cough Chaos characters don't get agency
cough Angron literally lost his agency
Like slaves to darkness being a thing fine
but come the fuck on
sinful crater
which faction? Necron...will wipe any living. nids....will consume every living. drukkari...will enslave all living for offer them suffering to slaneesh....
brittle slate
If I have to hear one more “imperium could bulldoze the tau if they ever focused on them” arguments
honest trellis
Newcrons suck but won't wipe all living always
brittle slate
My sibling in Christ, “if”
honest trellis
Nids need more nuance but some fleets don't kill all
Dark eldar won't even enslave most people
they're raiders
brittle slate
Nids need more nuance but some fleets don't kill all
Honestly they need a new faction
honest trellis
Nids are fine just have some weird biopunk splinter fleets
proud mango
yeah shake it up abit
honest trellis
less animal more dead space
crisp heath
which faction? Necron...will wipe any living. nids....will consume every living....
T'au. T'au replaces mankind like mankind replaced Eldar and Eldar replaced Necrons.
honest trellis
Like imagine Nids that learn farming
brittle slate
less animal more dead space
YES
honest trellis
entire worlds terraformed into weird gigeresque biomass
crisp heath
Like the T'au are a fledgling empire confronted with a dying one. It's their turn.
honest trellis
Hive Fleet Gaia
plush mason
and Imperial propaganda gets treated as true by said writers, out of setting
i mean they dont really have a choice due to the codex lore fluff. if the books contradicted the propaganda lore in the codex all the time people would hate it
honest trellis
i mean they dont really have a choice due to the codex lore fluff. if the books ...
Codex lore is a joke
easily retconned to add flavor
brittle slate
i mean they dont really have a choice due to the codex lore fluff. if the books ...
Abnett did a barrel roll
honest trellis
doens't need imperial bias to be a thing
just add a MOST
or SOME
and add 1-2 exceptions
literally a paragraph
plush mason
Codex lore is a joke
yeah but a lot of TT players only get their lore from them afaik
honest trellis
TBH the issue is that the novels are worse
dexes at least kindaaaaaaaa summarize factions as relevant
sinful crater
that the thing not everyone have acces to all the book.
plush mason
yeah
brittle slate
yeah but a lot of TT players only get their lore from them afaik
These days based on the meme logic, it’s almost all YouTube
And no one reads the codex lore lol
honest trellis
If you read BL, the Imperium comes over as the inevitable steamroller THAT RULES ALLLLLLL
crisp heath
I actually think they should lean more into "all narrators are unreliable and all something showing up in a novel or codex means is that someone believes it". The strength of 40k is that everything is ambiguous and they can give fans the pieces to assemble in the way they prefer
plush mason
These days based on the meme logic, it’s almost all YouTube
those are the TT players lol
honest trellis
Chaos in particular suffers from nuance issues
plush mason
well mostly
brittle slate
I actually think they should lean more into "all narrators are unreliable and al...
As it should be
honest trellis
There are people that argue with a straight face that Chaos followers can't have agency or character
BECAUSE MUH SLAVES TO DARKNESS
just because the path to glory exists doesn't mean that everyone immediately goes all in
sinful crater
I actually think they should lean more into "all narrators are unreliable and al...
but that kinda that, most of the lore in the codex come from where? data the imperium keep.... means it's a massive propaganda work.
plush mason
like if someone actually plays the hobby they have to know the codex lore as they are needed to play the game
crisp heath
On the other hand there are also people who genuinely believe chaos are the good guys and not that they pretend to be to lure in those juicy souls
honest trellis
Ultimately it'd be nice for like
honest trellis
On the other hand there are also people who genuinely believe chaos are the good...
Chaos is a pyramid scheme
but compared to IoM
It's honestly your pick which is worse
sinful crater
you need to understand the difference between lore that come from information of the imperium... most of the truth that disturb will be redacted or changed for match the narrative the imperium want.
proud mango
well isnt it that the case that chaos is definately the worse option?
honest trellis
No that's the thing
It's not
Chaos is primordial, incoherent emotion to the point of self-destruction, while the IoM is a misery generator for no good reason
sinful crater
and the one we can found around that is not tie to the imperium... victor write the history
crisp heath
It's honestly your pick which is worse
chaos by far, because your choices become getting airborne chlamydia, getting normal chlamydia but without consent or a safeword, becoming a murder hobo, or being so smart you loop back around to being dumb
honest trellis
see this reasoning is the issue
because IoM is "slavery with no escape for no benefit"
proud mango
i was under the impression the GE did a leto atredies and makes a harsh empire in order to prevent the destruction of the universe and humanity, from chaos?
honest trellis
that's his rationalization yes
but he's basically so bad at it that it loops back around into being Chaos MVP
If you want to stop Chaos, the Emperor is the last person to work with
he failed so badly he literally, canonically was worse at stopping Chaos than Horus would be
proud mango
well i dont think thats right, to my understanding its that he made mistakes, which lead to primarks and space marines falling to chaos
sinful crater
because IoM is "slavery with no escape for no benefit"
nope, that the point you have wrong. it's not slavery, it's everything is a ressource. human life have no weight outside what it can do. if it serve no purpose it's useless. human are a cog in the machine that is called imperium. Faith is the way they have found for control the masse more easily.
honest trellis
nope, that the point you have wrong. it's not slavery, it's everything is a ress...
Cool! Still slavery.
proud mango
yeah but the rational is that its slavery or death right?
crisp heath
I honestly don't think any faction except Chaos and the Deldar have it as bad as the average Imperial tbh
sinful crater
Cool! Still slavery.
for have slavery you must have freedom... exept freedom don't exist in imperium
crisp heath
Except the Necrons because they are completely innocent
honest trellis
for have slavery you must have freedom... exept freedom don't exist in imperium
The exploitative upper classes
proud mango
but thats primarily because the emperor isnt there right?
sinful crater
even them need to follow the rule and move the way the imperium want if they don't they are wiped as simple than this.
honest trellis
it's just same shit with more religion instead of personality cult
crisp heath
Even the upper classes aren't free or happy. The richest, most powerful people in the Imperium are paranoid, isolated, traumatized. The Imperium is a system that works for no one except a lucky few who live on backwater worlds and can avoid the worst of it.
sinful crater
Even the upper classes aren't free or happy. The richest, most powerful people i...
this, only the one in agriworld can have a good life...somehow
crisp heath
most agriworlds suck but a few are acceptable
honest trellis
The Imperium of Man is one of the single worst things to happen to humans
sinful crater
that why i have said somehow...
proud mango
hmm so I'm pulling from my knowledge of Dune here because 40k ripped a lot of the GE stuff from it. But I am assuming the entire point of it is that whilst the IoM is evil its a necessary evil for the continuation of the human species? So whilst its shit there is no alternative for man in the grimdark future?
honest trellis
nah it's not necessary
sinful crater
dude you need to learn to not use your morale code in warhammer 40000... honestly i hate how the imperium and most of the faction act...
crisp heath
The Farsight Enclaves, the Leagues, and some of the Necron dynasties (and even then only if you're a ruler) are the only societies I've ever seen anyone call "pretty ok"
sinful crater
nope
honest trellis
Yes though
sinful crater
they have no alternative... that the point.
honest trellis
who do you think the IoM crushes
on crusades
they have lots of alternatives even ignoring chaos
honest trellis
Chaos is a valid option
sinful crater
no
crisp heath
The point of the T'au is to show that there is an alternative, the Imperium is just too far gone to take advantage of it
sinful crater
chaos is not a valid option
sinful crater
chaos is random, yes you can have peacefull world, but most of the case are totally random... even if chaos god can too represent good thing, sadly they are extrem... means you will not get what you expect. since they can change for no reason... like nurgle that can help to nuture a world for make it rot and reborn later... because it's how it work.
crisp heath
People like to make a big deal of the Ethereal brainwashing thing, but that only applies to Vespids and T'au themselves. Humans and Kroot are there because they actually want to be, because the alternative is so much worse.
The main T'au empire is still pretty bad by modern human standards, but it's not the fascist slaughterhouse that the Imperium is
sinful crater
sadly what work for the tau it's because it still small, imperium is too big that the main problem... it have too many enemy (thanks to big E crusade)
proud mango
so I think its a given that the GE has kwisatz haderach abilities to see into the future, using that in-universe logic, we can only assume that the Emperor does what he does as a necessity.
that includes bringing all of humanity into the fold right?
brittle slate
The point of the T'au is to show that there is an alternative, the Imperium is j...
The majority of human worlds join the tau without a shot fired
sinful crater
if you think he did forsee the revival of the necron or the arrival of the nids... maybe, but it was too reckless if you want my though... and i will not be surprise if the flaw in the traitor primarch was not the flaw of big E
crisp heath
The Emperor can't see the future. He can see possible futures, like Curze, but not how to get there or even if the future he's seeing is "meant to be".
which essentially equates to being a pretty shitty psychic
proud mango
The Emperor can't see the future. He can see *possible* futures, like Curze, but...
yeah thats what the "kwisatz haderach" in dune sees (which is where 40k took inspiration from Dune)
sinful crater
which essentially equates to being a pretty shitty psychic
that the thing, the lore around Big E is a mess right now, one time he is all powerfull and another time his power are shitty
brittle slate
Well he’s basically a copy so
crisp heath
yeah thats what the "kwisatz haderach" in dune sees (which is where 40k took ins...
I think we have totally different interpretations of that novel lmao
brittle slate
that the thing, the lore around Big E is a mess right now, one time he is all po...
Right now he’s massively OP to the point where he’s getting lame
crisp heath
I always read it as Paul being able to see a future that is going to happen no matter what he does, and being forced along that path according to his "terrible purpose", which is honestly how I think most people look at it.
honest trellis
Lemme put it this way
sinful crater
but honestly Big E was corrupted by his power
proud mango
I always read it as Paul being able to see a future that is going to happen no m...
ah yes but there were two paths right? it was always going to be terrible but it was about which path was the least terrible
honest trellis
Chaos is so much of a valid option that big E based his whole game plan on using the power of Chaos for primarchs
the Warp is a tool
crisp heath
You see this is why prophecies suck
proud mango
yeah 😄
crisp heath
Once you start arguing about prophecy everything falls apart
brittle slate
People like to make a big deal of the Ethereal brainwashing thing, but that only...
I.. have umbrage with this
The ethereals and the tau don’t work if they’re brainwashing people
That’d be like the imperium having an alien alliance
Kinda ruins the tone
sinful crater
greater good of the t'au is a dangerous thing, it's easy to do every and anything....because it's for the greater good... i means if this world is filled with a plague and we can't save it... for avoid this plague to spread we will wipe it. that an example but you see the point
brittle slate
greater good of the t'au is a dangerous thing, it's easy to do every and anythin...
Yes- but that doesn’t change it’s fundamental morality
At the end of the day the greater good is about making decisions for the benefit of the most people
proud mango
greater good of the t'au is a dangerous thing, it's easy to do every and anythin...
ironically its the fundamental premise the GE has for doing what he does for the greater good of mankind
crisp heath
The main T'au empire was originally much more obviously benevolent, but people didn't think it was grimdark enough so GW shoved in the brainwashing thing. The issue is that even after including that, it's still better than the Imperium, and now we have the Farsight Enclaves which are actually a bit less racist than both, even though Farsight himself is extremely xenophobic.
proud mango
so yeah can easily be twisted
brittle slate
Tau don’t suffer from the trolly problem mental gymnastics
sinful crater
Yes- but that doesn’t change it’s fundamental morality
and who define what is morale? morality can change depending of the time, culture and type of life you have.
brittle slate
The main T'au empire was originally much more obviously benevolent, but people d...
No Tau player thought that. And that’s why we had Farsight.
brittle slate
The main T'au empire was originally much more obviously benevolent, but people d...
What?
sinful crater
The main T'au empire was originally much more obviously benevolent, but people d...
Farsight simply see that...the greater good can't work with everyone... some race don't want to join the dance
go try to make the drukkari join the greater good
crisp heath
Honestly even orks could probably be brought into the fold of the T'au empire using their methods, Farsight just doesn't want to go to those extremes.
There have been plenty of humans who manage to get groups of orks under control and relatively, relatively peaceable.
brittle slate
Farsight simply see that...the greater good can't work with everyone... some rac...
So exterminate them*
That’s the part your missing
Farsight is grimdark af
brittle slate
Honestly even orks could probably be brought into the fold of the T'au empire us...
Orks have worked for Tau as mercenaries
But in large numbers it’s a death wish
crisp heath
Orks have worked for Tau as mercenaries
Orks have worked for everyone as mercenaries, they're even in Comorragh
brittle slate
The orks are the water caste’s greatest failure
sinful crater
if you want to avoid a problem later... you simply need to eliminate it. i means if you found a wasp nest that begin to appear, will you leave it alone or call someone for take it out?
crisp heath
I think the vespids are the case in point here. The main T'au empire lobotomizes vespids and puts a "friendliness" machine where half their brain used to be. Farsight would just kill them.
It's a pick your poison situation.
sinful crater
that kinda a slavery, yes they join but after being turned into docile puppet.
crisp heath
I think right now Farsight has the moral high ground, but is more likely to turn into the Imperium in the long run, while the T'au Empire seems really shitty but might actually be able to create a galaxy at peace if given the chance.
Both options suck, and you kind of have to decide which one you thinks sucks less.
sinful crater
that the trouble when you implie morality... depend of the sensibility of each. for me everyone is evil... the only one i'm not sure how bad they are is the votaan since we don't have yet enough info about them
crisp heath
go try to make the drukkari join the greater good
also plenty of Drukhari flee Commoragh and try to be better. It's not an ork situation, most of them are Ynnari now but there are a few Drukhari who manage to join craftworlds, especially when you take into account all the torture doesn't actually stop Slaanesh, just slows them down.
sinful crater
they are exeption, not the norm
that the good old situation...will you save the small number by sacrificing more and protect more by sacrificing less?
crisp heath
Drukhari are like that because they choose to be. They can always choose not to be.
(especially since in Dark Son a Drukhari manages to bond to a spirit stone)
brittle slate
I think the vespids are the case in point here. The main T'au empire lobotomizes...
That’s not the case
brittle slate
I think right now Farsight has the moral high ground, but is more likely to turn...
Why does he have the moral high ground?
He’s fighting his own very specific war because he didn’t like being told what to do
He’s kurtz
The Vespid culture was fundamentally congruous with the notions of the greater good
Almost everyone that serves with them thinks they’re just the best, even Grehk
Who then eats one of their brains and realizes that they’re like the universe’s giving tree
crisp heath
I thought Vespids were the ones who were literally incapable of socialization? I'd have to look more into the T'au vassal races, I haven't read that in a long time.
brittle slate
And just give everything they have to the tau wholeheartedly at the cost of everything
brittle slate
I thought Vespids were the ones who were literally incapable of socialization? I...
No- the Vespid are the pinnacle ally to the fire caste
So much so that they serve alongside the xv8s
crisp heath
One of the T'au vassal races doesn't understand the concept of empathy and would rather be alone, and only banded together to fight the T'au, so the T'au lobotomized them. I thought it was the Vespids, but I could be wrong.
brittle slate
Vespids aren’t brainwashed. They’re too willing
The brainwash thing was imperial propaganda
brittle slate
One of the T'au vassal races doesn't understand the concept of empathy and would...
I have no idea who that is. I’ve never seen lore that actually had an allied race fight the tau except the nicassar and the nagi and both were very brief conflicts until diplomacy won out in the end
The nicassar was some kind of misunderstanding at the dawn of the tau expansion even before the 1st sphere
And the nagi are mind worms… probably took a minute to get past the whole “mind rip” part of the relationship. They now serve with the ethereals directly so 🤷
Most of the “but tau bad” comes from people just siding with imperial propaganda. Heck. The tau codex is an inquisitorial report on them
Ala tyrandis*
crisp heath
idk. It's hard to remember all the other species in the T'au empire because there's like a dozen of them and most have less than 3 sentences of lore.
brittle slate
Like 50
But fair
Main 6 are
Vespid
Kroot
Nicassar
Demiurg
Nagi
Gue’vesa (humans)
Likely more gue’vesa then tau at this point but GW gonna GW
crisp heath
I tried searching "tau" "brain implant" but apparently both those phrases are used to talk about a real procedure which is. Interesting.
brittle slate
Lol
unique berry
Tf is going on here
unique berry
disgusting
brittle slate
tryhards.
Do another favorite primarch conversation. You know. For variety.
I’ll go first. I’ll give you a hint, he’s got the prettiest hair and is super strong!
crisp heath
Do another favorite primarch conversation. You know. For variety.
I’ll go firs...
Oh wow don't see many Guilliman fans
winter vessel
I don’t necessarily hate Guilliman or his Ultramarines. They’re pretty interesting, but it’s who made them the way they are is why I dislike em. They’ve become the glorified poster boys of Imperium Success.
crisp heath
I like all the primarchs honestly, but I'll admit this was an argument the other day and it's mostly because I only read the most favorable interpretation.
honest trellis
Guilliman to me represents wasted narrative potential
and frankly a lot of writer glossing over of what's a fairly ugly set of character actions because >he's the protagonist
Like if they just flat out rolled with it, it'd make for much more interesting stories
As for favorite Primarchs hmmmmmmmm
Other than Alpharius...Perturabo and Horus though both also fall into "wasted narrative potential despite fine concepts"
winter vessel
I like Vulkan, even in the Grimdarkness of 40k I favor the one who represents even a slight ounce of hope.
Besides his whole, “Eldar Child fiasco”
honest trellis
Even the Khan is closer I think
winter vessel
Jaghatai and his White Scars are an interesting one as well. The Khan didn’t even choose a side during the Horus Heresy, he chose to wait.
crisp heath
The Khan is more Sun Tzu than Ghengis Khan a lot of times tbh
I don't like Chaos but I do like traitor primarchs, but again, that's because I interpret them differently than most people
winter vessel
I also love how, After Fulgrim was saying how Jaghatai did strange things to his ships, the Primarch clapped back by saying “I heard you do strange things to your warriors”
plush mason
which was about the rumored xeno implants his and his legion used iirc
where as the Khan was rumored to have made illegal modifications to his ships
so the whole exchange was "im breaking the law but so are you"
which i likely didnt need to point out here. but better safe than sorry lol
crisp heath
I mean in-universe it was like that but I think the meme was intended
plush mason
maybe
crisp heath
we are talking about the legion that has octopuses for dicks
plush mason
like afaik the line comes from before modern meme culture existed so
unless its not as old as i thought
crisp heath
yeah but it's like the dirty jokes in Moby Dick. They all mean something literal, but you were supposed to get the joke
plush mason
fair
crisp heath
which i mean, much more extreme example but yknow lol
plush mason
yeah it was tongue-in-cheek both in-universe and out lol
well with the Khan and Fulgrim
dusk patrol
I also love how, After Fulgrim was saying how Jaghatai did strange things to his...
Which makes no sense in universe
Fulgrim was trying to save his sons from their gene disease
Basically space cancer
plush mason
like how where ether of them "breaking the law"
dusk patrol
So Fulgrim said “you make your ships fast that’s weird”
And the Khans clap back is “Lol your kids are dying of some horrific disease, and you’re trying to save them”
plush mason
he was using xeno tech to do so
plush mason
So Fulgrim said “you make your ships fast that’s weird”
And the Khans clap back...
nah Fulgrim was saying "so you break the law just to go faster"
dusk patrol
There’s no law to break
Legions modified all their gear
WSs just made their stuff faster
At the expenses of other systems
The Khans Gloriana was specifically made with that in mind
plush mason
well shit. then yeah it was just made for memeing. which means the EC where literally made for memeing
crisp heath
It only works cause haha gay joke
The real joke is Khan is homophobic. Loser.
OK SO GAY MARINES
Dark Angels should be camp, change my mind.
sinful crater
pffff puny dark angel...
crisp heath
Puny? I was about to post a picture of macho camp guys but I can't find one where his schlong of eternal power is visibly outlined
unique berry
Besides his whole, “Eldar Child fiasco”
U mean this
fierce pendant
Puny? I was about to post a picture of macho camp guys but I can't find one wher...
crisp heath
anyway point I was making was that there was a lot of gay jokes with the Dark Angels in the early days, and GW shied away from this as society progressed. This is a bad move. Instead, they should definitely be gay, and definitely be approaching you at mach 5 with a powersword.
unique berry
sinful crater
technically, space marine live in monestary for some chapter... and i doubt they have time to have a looooot of love in them life
unique berry
Lets not talk about that
sinful crater
i means they are too busy killing xeno, chaos, heretic and such
crisp heath
are we about to start arguing about astartes erections again
unique berry
What do u mean again?
crisp heath
I've been here less than a week and I've seen this argument twice
unique berry
I've been here for month and never saw it thank god
plush mason
lol
sinful crater
knowledge is dangerous.... ignorance is a blessing.
vital kernel
I mean, I can somewhat understand Chaos fanboys, but they really have to stop peddling their faction as a legitimate alternative for human existance.
A force that corrupts and consumes the very core of human life is not capable of coexistance.
These mf preach about the true path for humanity while looking like a 90s deathmetal cover
nocturne crest
People genuinely believe that?
barren tapir
I read all messages since my last one yesterday, around 500 messages, it was a roller coaster of emotions, some takes were so bad that i had to laugh because they couldn't be serious, others were clearly biased and had to be ignored by anyone with a brain and in general was a laugh all along...
What way to start the day
celest dome
I'm a Chaos boy sure, but I'm never gonna say that turning to Chaos is a good idea
honest trellis
A force that corrupts and consumes the very core of human life is not capable of...
...and that's why the imperium must die
vital kernel
...and that's why the imperium must die
Ok.
honest trellis
Like seriously all the anti chaos arguments fit the iom
The joke is chaos offers more genuine hope
And its a pyramid scheme
celest dome
The IoM must change, yes
But you can't abolish the IoM in a finger snap
honest trellis
Kinda can
celest dome
Trying to do that would just cause even more chaos
nocturne crest
I wonder if it would be more productive for the Tyranids to let a planet breed genestealer cultists and let them sacrifice themselves.
celest dome
If Terra blow up, Mankind is in even greater peril than currently
honest trellis
nah it just splinters
nocturne crest
Even those that are in the Web way?
celest dome
Atm, when Xenos invade, a planet can hope to call upon help from other planets, if the Warp Travel isn't possible anymore (At least reliably) then you're on your own
vital kernel
Just break it up
to be eaten piecemeal by tyranids. Amazing idea
nocturne crest
Dark Eldar would probably start a conservation effort to keep Human slaves around..
celest dome
to be eaten piecemeal by tyranids. Amazing idea
Chaos, Orks, Eldar and other weaker forces
And Necrons too
honest trellis
to be eaten piecemeal by tyranids. Amazing idea
IoM fails at nid defense
Newcrons in dex can be reasoned with
The IoM cannot deal with the enemies it makes
Its core to faction lore that it fails
vital kernel
IoM fails at nid defense
IoM is the only reason any nid defense is still going. Because the nids have consumed portions of the Imperium your proposed "splinters" would be numerous times.
celest dome
Newcron can be reasoned with, but the Necron will still wipe out human that are in area they don't want to
honest trellis
nah all those defenses were local anywsy
vital kernel
A sector sized Human enclave could never oppose a hive fleet
celest dome
All Tyr defence were done by 3 things:
vital kernel
nah all those defenses were local anywsy
ah yes, all the local Space Marine chapters and Regiments that were warped in from across the Galaxy
honest trellis
Its moot bc imperium can't handle nids either
celest dome
- Killing GSC before they did their stuff
vital kernel
Its moot bc imperium can't handle nids either
a moot point is something up for discussion, not to be discarded
celest dome
There are planets that pushed/survived the Tyr
honest trellis
The iom in nid lore has no answer for nids beyond feeding its populations as biomass aka cannon fodder
Oops
vital kernel
Those are some really shitty hot takes you are throwing out, my man
honest trellis
Nid dex lore.
barren tapir
If that is what you truly believe then i must agree that you just ignore what doesn't fit you POV and go with it speaking of it like absolute truth, and being absolutely wrong
celest dome
Codex always live up the faction they are about, like Tau Codex making the Tau spheres paradise compared to the rest of the Galaxy
Live up might not be the way to say it
barren tapir
Every codex paint the faction the talk in a super positive light where they cannot be stopped ever
honest trellis
Still shows IoM is just as useless against nids as other threats
barren tapir
Again, a BS take
celest dome
Every codex paint the faction the talk in a super positive light where they cann...
Yes, that way, ty
honest trellis
Sigh I'll have to throw the screencap later ig
celest dome
Still shows IoM is just as useless against nids as other threats
The Great Crusades did push back a lot of Xenos factions
barren tapir
I don't remember if it was in Ad. Mech. codex where they state that multiple forge worlds managed to defeat nids full on attacks with different methods
celest dome
Metalica did it by just sending wave upong waves of Servitors, and bringing back the corpses to not give Biomass iirc
And Mars make improvement too
vital kernel
Macragge and Baal broke Nid hive fleets
barren tapir
Sigh I'll have to throw the screencap later ig
We are not denying that it might have been written that way, but you have to weight from where the phrase came, a codex will rarely say that its faction lost like an idiot
honest trellis
Okay but that's just ignoring canon now
Like the iom consistently gets said to not have an answer for nids
barren tapir
But the IoM isn't an admech empire
I just made an example of how a codex is biased toward the faction it portray and now you are twisting it, congratulation another sign you are incapable to see things outside your POV, everything have to comply on how you see things
So, why don't you tell us about your headcanon? Since this you are talking about isn't lore in the slightest
vital kernel
Like the iom consistently gets said to not have an answer for nids
Yeah, lets hear all the great answers others have for Nids:
barren tapir
Like the iom consistently gets said to not have an answer for nids
Which is BS since it actually does
Like the toxin that was developed and worked
honest trellis
Someone's bitter canon doesn't support the IoM being a good answer for anything lol
barren tapir
Or how they managed to repell other nids attacks
honest trellis
The key words are "pyrric", "splinter fleets" and "more on the way"
barren tapir
Someone's bitter canon doesn't support the IoM being a good answer for anything ...
Iom is a shitty thing bad at pretty much everything it does, but this doesn't mean it doesn't have answers to its threats, they might be bad answers, like nuking entire sectors, but it has them and they work
vital kernel
Actually, Lucerne convinced me. The best course of action, with a galaxy full of hostile forces trying to exterminate humanity, is to disband the only coherent force of humanity capable of opposing said forces. Lets all fend for ourselves and get destroyed because that's a much better alternative than continuing the IoM, which is bad, and wrong, and incompetent.
barren tapir
The key words are "pyrric", "splinter fleets" and "more on the way"
Yes, and that work with everyone else that fight nids, tau fought against them with guard and won, guess that now tau don't have an answer to nids too
Oh, wait, maybe no one has an answer to nids
Orks got eaten after all, they must not be capable to face nids
Necrons got scared by them
celest dome
Someone's bitter canon doesn't support the IoM being a good answer for anything ...
Nobody is saying that the IoM is a good answer to how Mankind should be, but they aren't toddlers that the other forces can bully as they want or something of the sort
barren tapir
Yeah, no one has an answer to nids, clearly don't
honest trellis
LOL cholo flat out parroting "IoM is the only way" huh
celest dome
LOL cholo flat out parroting "IoM is the only way" huh
Breaking the IoM is like having someone attack Nato, and people saying we need to break Nato, as it's the only way to win
honest trellis
Nobody is saying that the IoM is a good answer to how Mankind should be, but the...
No they're just the suicide pact for what could be innovative human organization
vital kernel
LOL cholo flat out parroting "IoM is the only way" huh
No, you convinced me man. Disbanding IoM asap is the best choice.
because IoM bad
barren tapir
You are incapable to see things outside of what you want them to be, it is hilarious, it is like have the green tinted glass from OZ that made you think that the city was of emerald
honest trellis
ioM literally a useless waste of resources
celest dome
No they're just the suicide pact for what could be innovative human organization
The Golden Age of Mankind already passed, we had better solution before but they failed, that's the thing, IoM isn't what they wanted, it's what we managed to get
barren tapir
It has its flaws, which are as big at it is honestly, still it is capable to do something
vital kernel
better yet, we should allow Abbadon to destroy the Astronomican, exterminate untold trillions of people and drown the Galaxy in warp storms. Because IoM bad and a waste of resources.
celest dome
Could it be better, yes, vastly
Could it easilly be worse, yes
honest trellis
The Golden Age of Mankind already passed, we had better solution before but they...
ioM is systematic destruction of any Hope of survival
barren tapir
It all went super down once the ecclesiarchy got formed honestly
Well, that was for the IoM, the schism was for the Mechanicum
celest dome
ioM is systematic destruction of any Hope of survival
And yet, breaking the IoM would destroy all hope of survival
Change it need to happen, destruction and replacement, not gonna work
honest trellis
nah breaking it can happen
Whole segmentums can secede okay without notable issues
The biggest lie in 40k is that humanity needs the IoM
vital kernel
Whole segmentums can secede okay without notable issues
lol, lmao even
honest trellis
Go read timeline
barren tapir
TBH the examples we have to such things didn't ended well, nor did improved anything
honest trellis
Or hell nihilus is proof
celest dome
If in a Finger Snap Terra is destroyed, all hope of survival as a major force is dead
There would still be Human controlled planet and sectors, but they would start to be pushed in their limits and either have to become part of other forces (Tau, Chaos...) or die
honest trellis
The IoM was never needed for human existence
celest dome
Whole segmentums can secede okay without notable issues
And still they depend on the Astronomicon
barren tapir
IoM was a tool that should have been used for the survival of humans, of course there were other tools present
honest trellis
Honestly i Don't think nova terra ever said so in lore
barren tapir
And there can still be, but throwing a way a broken tool without having anything to replace it is not going to improve your work rate in any way
celest dome
Do they use Warp travel
They need the Astronomicon or technology that was long lost
barren tapir
Nah, not since 30K, it started to crack at that, but it all went down after religion rose up
celest dome
Tool broke since 30k
And yet we don't have any alternative atm
honest trellis
Bc IoM keeps blowing them up
And suppressing the forbidden lore that'd save humanity
barren tapir
I would like to remember that when big E was still walking like the giant golden lighthouse it was science was actually innovating
honest trellis
Sure while setting up a civil war through mismanagement
its canon the crusade basically caused so much resentment that horus got minions spontaneously
barren tapir
Never said he was smart or had the right call, even in lore it is said that many disagreed with its methods
celest dome
Even the Primarch disaggred with the Emp
vital kernel
Point is the IoM failed before even the heresy
Name your alternative
barren tapir
Many primarchs weren't ok with how the imperium were, but accepted it as a temporary thing
celest dome
But still we have no current alternative that would let us say we let Terra break
vital kernel
"tHeRe ArE PlEntY aLtErNaTiVeS"
honest trellis
Tech heresy, embrace warp use, vasasal states, psychic ascension. Literally any other option ends better.
vital kernel
Tech heresy, embrace warp use, vasasal states, psychic ascension. Literally any ...
Lmao that can't go wrong at all. Solid plan.
honest trellis
ioM is the galaxys longest suicide note
celest dome
Terra breaking mean no way to Warp Travel, I think most long range communication (Psyker stuff) wouldn't work quite as well
And we get a 2nd Eye of Terror
barren tapir
Vassal states were a thing and still are kinda
vital kernel
Lucernes plan to Any% speedrun into Men of Iron revolt 2.0 'AI Boogaloo'
vital kernel
Lucerne, do you realize that the exact "alternatives" you propose led to the collapse of the first Human golden Age in the first place?
vital kernel
Works wonders, will never go wrong ever and never has.
honest trellis
They're just tied to a failed cult
barren tapir
Tech heresy, embrace warp use, vasasal states, psychic ascension. Literally any ...
TBH the only possible option was to improve tech, all the others are such a way to shoot yourself in the feet that are laughable
celest dome
Still would end with massive human death
vital kernel
Read the fucking lore Lucerne, rather than your fever dream headcanon of it.
celest dome
Mate, there is a reason why you're all alone here
vital kernel
protip: if everything in disagreement with your opinion is "IoM propaganda", then you may have a massive confirmation bias going on.
honest trellis
Bc fandom is in a sorry state
barren tapir
It is not stanning, we are all aware of how awful the imperium is
celest dome
I hate the IoM, but saying that it's collapse wouldn't be horrific for Mankind is a joke
honest trellis
And the next step is "oops humans Don't need it" hint hint
Like hell even its own dictator realizes it fails
vital kernel
They're just tied to a failed cult
Read the UR025 stories from Blackstone Fortress, AI is not humanities friend.
barren tapir
Bc fandom is in a sorry state
Yeah, there is people with takes like yours
barren tapir
Like hell even its own dictator realizes it fails
You know that such dictator inteded to not have a seat in the council that should have managed the imperium if all went well? Like, he say that when all is done and is well he want to just retire to its place and just be there to prevent the fall if something goes bad
honest trellis
Read the UR025 stories from Blackstone Fortress, AI is not humanities friend.
Salting to techpriests while playing dress up doesn't have any relevance
barren tapir
Read the UR025 stories from Blackstone Fortress, AI is not humanities friend.
I mean, they can be friends honestly... It just need to be on the same plane as humans...
honest trellis
You know that such dictator inteded to not have a seat in the council that shoul...
Oh sureeeee the guy running his own pocket empire, launching coups and putting his sons in charge doesn't want control?
vital kernel
Salting to techpriests while playing dress up doesn't have any relevance
read 'Shapes Pent in Hell'.
It basically unravels your idiotic takes singlehandedly.
barren tapir
Salting to techpriests while playing dress up doesn't have any relevance
See, you pick and choose what has relevance and what it hasn't, you are not talking lore, you are talking about what you think it is and what you want it to be
honest trellis
[doubt]
honest trellis
See, you pick and choose what has relevance and what it hasn't, you are not talk...
No I'm saying UR being a selfish explorer literally has no relevance
barren tapir
No I'm saying UR being a selfish explorer literally has no relevance
Which is wrong, since it has relevance
vital kernel
Heretek gets gibbed by his own AI-Warp abomination, a pretty good demo of what you propose as an Alternative for Humanity.
barren tapir
Turns out an AI relic in hiding doesn't give a shit
While other AI openly say that they hate humans of the 40K
vital kernel
Men of Iron revolt nearly destroying humanity never happened guys, just IoM and Martian propaganda.
barren tapir
Also UR say that he despise tech priest before killing one iirc
vital kernel
it is just Emperor being sour grapes because
barren tapir
UR is extremely pragmatic, which is true for many AI, and if AI think that humans are not their masters they would fight for their independence, which is fair, but with how the imperium think it has control over everything it is just a recipe to another war with cybertron
honest trellis
Also UR say that he despise tech priest before killing one iirc
Thing about UR is...yeah no shit he'd hate tech priests
We've seen actual. Unambiguously helpful ai
barren tapir
Thing about UR is...yeah no shit he'd hate tech priests
But he play along, hell, it is hinted that many old kastellans robots are AI too
honest trellis
Hate the imperium bc it tortured the pilot to death for no reason
The imperium and its enablers are literally that bad
Death of integrity
barren tapir
Hate the imperium bc it tortured the pilot to death for no reason
Its crew, and yes, they were killed once they landed to signal problems incoming on a planet
But that is what happen when a ship from the Age of Tech arrive in the current time
honest trellis
Issues with AI are clearly garbage in aka imperium mentality
barren tapir
They never thought it would become this bad
honest trellis
Garbage out aka: wow fuck em