40k-lore-chat

[dusk patrol]

A lot of the humor is LOUD NOISES, EMPEROR SWEARS

Kinda deal

[desert solstice]

heheh, funni shotgun humor

[dusk patrol]

I still enjoy parts of it don’t get me wrong

But yeah it just hasn’t all aged well

Very 2000s internet humor

[desert solstice]

remember if the fast paced humor doesn't get ya, Dorn will.

He is a treasure.

[dusk patrol]

I do enjoy the Dorn parts

Those don’t get old for me

https://tenor.com/view/rogal-dorn-no-warhammer-warhammer40k-robot-gif-17117864

The voice acting is mostly great too

[desert solstice]

the DnD VT spinoff is good. In general their writing/humor is good. Even w their new stuff that's none 40k related

[dusk patrol]

The Sly Marbo gag where he gets put into a moral dilemma but it just makes two more Sly Marbos is funny too

[desert solstice]

ye

i just hope they finally get to reach a conclusion on TTS

one day

[final solar]

He did post what that would’ve been, there’s a Patreon post you can dig up.

[desert solstice]

ye but i mean like the actual one.

there's hope that something's rumbling around behind the scenes in GW

as they might be recognizing people making content about their IP is free advertising

and not be living in the stone age

the channel mentioned they arent holding their breath but it's a rumor they heard

[lilac wave]

GW really shouldn't have waited so long in the first place, if they're going to do anything at all. Their zero tolerance policy was a PR nightmare. I mean, you hear that people will buy their stuff no matter what they do, but they're bound to run out of good will eventually.

[desert solstice]

i think it's a generational/regional thing

older people at the top with backwards views of how to manage a brand in a changing world

as much as i dont like microsoft or a lot of big western developers

they typically understand what free advertising is and dont step on people

keyword being "typically"

[desert solstice]

remember Humvee tried and lost in court over Activision depicting Humvees in COD.

recently it was ruled

it's weird, it's a very pre internet/information age mentality

[sinful crater]

more the world did change soo fast with internet that the one holding the power can't follow. they still think MTV is heresy and such...

[signal bramble]

It’s also why GW swapped a lot of stuff to their more copyright friendly names.

[desert solstice]

some of which if true, make zero sense

no one holds the copywrite for "storm troopers" if that is true

it's literally a WW1 german troop name

only the designs for the stormtrooper armor for their respective IP can have some legal argument to be made

[lilac wave]

I dunno, maybe there's legal shit I don't understand or their lawyers are fucking up. You are obliged to defend your brand to some degree, but still it just seems to me like a lack of common decency. I guess the disconnect is not understanding that you can only get away with so much bullshit in the information age. Like when the squish something popular and beloved, or treat the animators they hired on like shit, literally everyone is going to hear about it and be pissed off.

[desert solstice]

recently if i recall if your design is simple enough it cannot be trademarked/hold any legal copywrite grounds

disney tried and failed to trademark the lightsaber design but it was ruled as being too simple

which thank god

cause it's a laser sword

[desert solstice]

heheh.. big companies...

or treat the animators they hired on like shit,

[sinful crater]

honestly copyright is something that need to evolve, i means in this age where knowledge is shared all around the world, hoping to hold any monetary control over name is.... stupid

[desert solstice]

i still dont know what the purpose for being a publicly traded videogame company is

for the consumer

it yields us no benefit

or very little*

i understand it for physical goods, like table top

but for videogames all the money invested goes into just gaining it back and getting a profit which is usually just mtx systems

literally discourages you from making the actual product

[lilac wave]

It probably has something to with how much it costs to make a AAA game now. I wonder how the actual costs of game development have changed compared to say 15 years ago.

[sinful crater]

the AAA game cost tons of money but most of it go into marketing

[desert solstice]

the costs are usually because of your studio size, but more and more are smaller studios and indie games starting to crank out games w similar looking quality (all be it w shakey results) but still

[desert solstice]

also this

also this very much (forgot about that)

[sinful crater]

generally it's about more of 3/4 that goes into marketing.... for really big game

[desert solstice]

which is kinda funny, because ideally you'd think there's logically diminishing returns for marketing

evidently w the amount of spending they dont think so

[sinful crater]

they ar thinking like old men, they think you will get more cash if more people know about your game

when a game can become massive if it's good without even have a massive marketing campaign

[lilac wave]

Still, it makes sense to pay until you're losing money. If 1$ spent marketing yields $1.00001 in profits it's still worth spending the money.

[desert solstice]

agony, but also weird considering we live in an age where marketing can be done at a fraction of the cost if done right

[sinful crater]

same a lot of the price you pay is for the marketing coverage :x

you can get more marketing value by choosing the right youtuber in this age

you send them the game if it's good the youtuber will talk about it and other will follow

[desert solstice]

• free review copies
• good e-celeberty connections w said free review copies

a lot of people will ask for 0 bucks just a free copy to be first

[sinful crater]

sadly a looot of game have most of them cash drained by the marketing leading to product subpar, then they can't use this method

[desert solstice]

like i remember OW marketing and you couldn't look anywhere without seeing it

it was annoying

and in the end it was a subpar league of legions/TF2 game that's somewhat slinked back into obscurity lol

[sinful crater]

take the example of vampire survivor, little to no marketing and the game did sold like hot cake

[desert solstice]

or DRG

[lilac wave]

Best marketing of all is making an awesome game, though I doubt either even came close to touching OW2 numbers.

[sinful crater]

what is scary that outside two major game, most of the good game i have get this years come from small indie that didn't do any marketing :x

[desert solstice]

plus isn't it better marketing in the long term to have a smaller but stable community and naturally grow it as the game gets bigger?

with these game's as a service models?

[sinful crater]

sadly investor do think that every game live as service can generate tons of cash directly :x

a good example is FF14, it's did take a few years to become massive, now look at what it have become

[desert solstice]

i do hear it's a hugely popular MMO

[sinful crater]

dedication and patience in the game as service is virtue, for dev and player

first release was a huge mess

[desert solstice]

hopefully what this game will get

if VT2 is anything to go by it hopefully will be so

[sinful crater]

they had to relaunch the game after remake all of it... and honestly the dev team behind was patient and dedicated to always improve now, it's by far the best around

[desert solstice]

just i pray if we get new entire gamemodes like chaos wastes, and winds of magic they dont not use our premade builds/loadouts. Splitting loot pools/removing them is beyond dumb.

the agony of enjoying the more replayable chaos wastes but not getting to use my skins for dumb arbitrary reasons is dumb

[lilac wave]

The rocky start is a real shame, there are lot of people who put it down and won't ever pick it up again.
I guess we'll have to wait and see. My perspective is colored by me being a 40k nerd, even a 5/10 or 6/10 game can go to a 9 in my eyes just from doing justice to the setting, and Darktide absolutely does.

[sinful crater]

i want a gamemode where we must defend a base attacked by the heretic... with turret, guard and such

[desert solstice]

i'm not much of a 40k fan i've mostly been waiting for a game to peak my interest before i dive in. Hence why i'm here (go figure).

but the combat is solid, the gameplay loop is a strong foundation

it just needs more content as a whole

[sinful crater]

what make warhammer 40.000 soo good is the sheer size of every battle... right now it feel weird to have simple small conflict, even if we kill tons of heretic... i want some battlefield...

[desert solstice]

doubt that'll happen given the fact we set off in strike teams.. BUT. If they're smart. If they learn from the mistakes of previous failures that tried this Division 2 and give us a reason for this bullshit "always online" malarkey hopefully we might get 6-8 man raids.

doubt it

but if they arent dumb, and at least take advantage of the always online bs, they should go for it.

if possible

[sinful crater]

not really they can pull it by making some mission happening while the regular troops is attacking and diverting, we can go infiltrate the camp and attacking from inside as a strike team...

[lilac wave]

I don't totally agree. I do think the sheer sense of scale in 40k does a lot for the setting, but Darktide does that pretty well. Of course I'd love to see more stuff, it would be amazing to be fighting around the feet of a titan, letting loose with huge fuck off lasers and what have you. Would love to square off against a space marine of some kind, or even maybe a Great Deamon(with a lot of support.)

There's no end to the things they could do, guess we just have to hope they get all the funding they need for a really long tail game.

[sinful crater]

and for defense we can be the team send to assist where the heat is too high, like a part of the wall did fall and we need to go assist to repel the heretic the time the engineer team fix the wall.

[dusk patrol]

Not with the current engine

It’s not designed for that

I mean look how it runs now

[desert solstice]

to compare, the Division 2 is a dying game so it's throwing out experimental game modes rn. One of them is called countdown if you havent played it, basically 2 teams of 4 or one team of 8 have a limited time to complete a set of objectives before extracting. Good loot pool, unique/hard enemies pretty replayable. If they take the good from that and ignore the bad (bullet spongey enemies) it would fit right in a game like this. And would be the closest thing to "bigger battle" we could have.

[dusk patrol]

FS isn’t a super small studio but they arent that big

[sinful crater]

actually it's possible, you don't need to see the battlefield... and i had mission with tons of zombie due to a bug and the game was running fine.

most of the trouble people encounter in mission come from recent CG what is weird

[desert solstice]

but a traditional frontline, i doubt we shall have

maybe we might visit some abandoned/lost trenches behind enemy lines tho

[sinful crater]

with my 1080 i have no lag, no shuttering the only trouble i have are either the server error at the start... or memory leak forcing me to restart the game every two mission

[lilac wave]

I think there's a way some sort of pitched battle might fit into the gameplay loop the way it is. The problem is, like you said, getting it to actually run. Being able to turn of ray tracing now sure helps a lot.

[desert solstice]

going more topside behind trenches might also be another gamemode

dont see why not

[sinful crater]

we can be send to a battlefield to go fight the heretic that did take part of the trench

[desert solstice]

but given we're on behalf of the inquisition at best the battle will happen in a skybox

[sinful crater]

definitivly

[desert solstice]

i just hope for a enemy space marine encounter like a daemon host

possible to kill, but better to avoid

for more horror variety

[sinful crater]

not before they add more heavy hitting weapon

like melta

[desert solstice]

"technically", w an ogryn on our team we could maybe take one

[lilac wave]

Cool as that'd be, honestly the plasmagun is already a pain in the ass.

[sinful crater]

i love the plasma rifle

[lilac wave]

Man sized metlaguns are pretty common though.

[desert solstice]

I just want my longlas

so tired

need actual scope

[sinful crater]

i want as vet, my flamer, my grenade launcher

[lilac wave]

I'd sure like to be able to put even a reflex sight on everything. I fucking despise ironsights so much.

[desert solstice]

nah cause we're not cod kekw

the hilarity the bots all have lasguns w no reflex sight

[north lotus]

You have to remember, a space marine is in their element inside a hive city.

[lilac wave]

Just give me the option to have a screen dot then.

[sinful crater]

we are not ratling dude!

ratling sniper are know for custom them gun

[lilac wave]

Oh fuck, I just missed this. I just imagined being stalked by a fucking nightlord or something.

[desert solstice]

lorewise the lasguns are highly modular

[north lotus]

Personally I have the opinion that we need weird optics for different types of lasguns.

[sinful crater]

please no... this game will become a nightmare

[desert solstice]

i just think it'd make sense on higher difficulties to see them patroling for you and to hide from them

[lilac wave]

That's the point!

[desert solstice]

makes sense the more missions that succeed the bigger threat we are to whatever is causing issues on tertium

[sinful crater]

i means already in light out mission i'm kinda scared because most of the time people don't bring light...

[desert solstice]

meaning eventually they'd send in forces to at least look for us

[north lotus]

Maybe a offset m1c style scope for the krieg lasguns.

Not possible but it’s a wish

[desert solstice]

i just wanna be able to put flashslight and optic on all guns

[sinful crater]

on short terms, nurgle will not, but if we stop too much of his plan he will be annoyed and send a small squad

[north lotus]

There I disagree

[desert solstice]

i also want all autoguns to reload like actual guns so they have some kind of actual niche to fill

every lasgun reloads faster than them

(i checked)

[north lotus]

I get that

I should explain my idea

[lilac wave]

I think like, one plague marine as an end mission boss encounter would work alright.

[north lotus]

Maybe you get a gun with a random assortment of attachments but the platform is the same

For example

[desert solstice]

i think it's better as a avoidable insanely hard encounter like a demonhost, it makes sense we wouldn't intentionally be set out to deal with them

[celest dome]

Autogun are good on close targets

[desert solstice]

if it has a picatinny rail it's getting a reflex sight or optic

[sinful crater]

braced auto gun are really good for deal with horde or group of ranged

[north lotus]

The sight doesn’t have to work the exact same way

[lilac wave]

If we can deal with a Beast of Nurgle or a Chaos Ogryn we could deal with a single plague marine. SMs only deserve so much wank.

[celest dome]

And Daemonhost are much stronger than SM, SM would on the level of difficulty of a Plague Ogryn, so Monster

[north lotus]

This is what I mean

[desert solstice]

true but it makes no sense for us to be able to track them and kill em. Makes more sense we stumble across them.

or they're tracking us

[celest dome]

We don't track BoN/Plague Ogryns

The only target we actively hunt are the Assassination targets

[sinful crater]

that have insane weapon

[north lotus]

Maybe for example you get unique options for different variants of lasguns

[sinful crater]

them plasma pistol that act like a plasma shotgun

and them two hand melee

i want a two hand power sword

[celest dome]

Is their Power Sword 1h or 2h ?

[desert solstice]

true, but also balance wise BoN/Plague ogryns (and most likely eventually chaos spawns) are balanced in a way to be beatable. Daemon hosts are "beatable" under optimal circumstances which imo is the best power setting to please everyone for a space marine.

[celest dome]

Also all this talk is more suited for theorycrafting

[sinful crater]

at this point i don't care it hit like a truck

[lilac wave]

I could see a big ol plague marine just waiting us out, saying bring it on or whatever. Or even we're going to get some other sort of boss and the CSM ambushes us at the end?

[north lotus]

For example, let’s use the “triplex” lasgun pattern

[celest dome]

SM are also beatable

[sinful crater]

sm can be killed by kroot... then

even a gretchin can kill a sm

[desert solstice]

ye, but again implementing them is in general risky. You gotta balance them based on people's expectations.

[north lotus]

Maybe the optics are unique in that you can cludge together a g36 dual optics setup.

[desert solstice]

the reflex sight on a lasgun is literally screwed on you can inspect it. they by lore and by design are modular

gimme options dammit fatfish

[celest dome]

Have them fit to lore on Damnation, and nerf them as usual in lower difficulties

[north lotus]

I’m saying having a second optic option already attached.

[lilac wave]

To some degree the expectations for space marines are just unrealistic in the setting, and maybe that's why we'll never see them. In truth a ogryn can crush a space marine's head like a beer can, and you could bring four of them.

[sinful crater]

maybe later when they add all the progression in the warband... soo far don't forget we are reject at who they give material they found or from dead operative

[desert solstice]

like a sight on an optic, very clunky.

doubt that concept would survive to the 41st millennium

[north lotus]

Irl, there’s better made versions of the same concept thanks to the advancements of pistol red dot sights

[celest dome]

Sure, but in the same way, if an Ogryn got his hand around the head of a Daemonhost, he could in theory crush its head

SM as Monster would have worked

[desert solstice]

easiest option is just giving us a modular system for at least sights

[desert solstice]

we already have models of lasguns w nothing attached

and every other weapon but the lasguns and laspistol dont have *reflex sights, just gib

and most if not all have rails for attachments

[north lotus]

I’m trying to explain that not all attachments to guns just have to be the same red dot. That’s what I’d be ok with compromising for.

[desert solstice]

oh for sure i'd want variety

reflex sights, close - medium range optics, long scopes

[north lotus]

The flashlight attachment setup is for balance reasons.

[desert solstice]

gimme gimme

[desert solstice]

i dont see how, given the best gun in the game has it

or the most "versatile" gun has it

it's just another "fuck you" for wanting to use autoguns over the myriad of reasons

[north lotus]

Plasma weapons don’t have it last I checked, nor do bolters or ogryn weapons.

[desert solstice]

fair

[north lotus]

That said I do think headhunter autoguns need a buff

[desert solstice]

but bolter (tbh it wouldn't matter if it did or didn't since all you're using it for is specials/things that're targetable/markable) and plasma generates pretty decent fireballs/light when shooting

[north lotus]

I’d imagine that with the imperium the vast scale would make a universal standard like the milstd 1913 rail a challenge

However there’s earlier style alternatives

Back in the Cold War, there was the nato standard scope mounting system

[desert solstice]

i think all autoguns need updated animations when switching to the weapon to not rack the charging handle, and not racking the charging handle when there's a round in the chamber. So they have some kind of different behavior and advantages over lasguns

and also so they behave sort of like a gun lol

All autoguns have a 3.+ second reload meanwhile lasguns are like 2.75

ontop of poopoo sights, less dmg and worse ammo economy

very confused on the balancing.

to keep it lore based, their ambidextrous charging handles amuse me

[north lotus]

I’d recommend maybe they’d use a siderail or dovetail mounting system.

[lilac wave]

Braced autos at least have better economy. In exchange for being impossible to aim.

[desert solstice]

better by autogun standards

[north lotus]

They’re human portable SAW’s

Or “automatic rifles”

[desert solstice]

i wish we could change their behaviors

wish i could make em more carbine like

would love for a decked out space AK

[north lotus]

I like the ideas behind them.

[north lotus]

I don’t like the execution

[desert solstice]

forget which braced autogun is the shortbarreled one but i really wish i could make that one into a scoped, suppressed carbine. It would just look so right if it had the right animations and attachments.

[desert solstice]

it all boils down to not being able to have range being their issue

with basically no way to mitigate it

wish we had torrent by default and we could just ads as our secondary action

[north lotus]

I think we should focus back on the serious subjects

[desert solstice]

fair

finally steering back to chat ontopic questions

what y'all think is deeper in the hive?

i heard BoN cant exist without something creating rifts in the warp

[north lotus]

The mother of all bat soups

[desert solstice]

based

[north lotus]

Also a sarcastic joke here, but why isn’t this in the game

I want heretics to fear the hard ball.

[lilac wave]

Temple to nurgle carved out of a shopping mall sized chunk of sewer fat.

60 billion mutants

[desert solstice]

because every caliber in 40k must be comically h'uge.

[north lotus]

It’s a stub pistol.

[lilac wave]

A corrupted stc that 3d prints talking, disembodied assholes.

[desert solstice]

wait, did they really just keep the design of a browning 1911 in 40k?

and make it bigger?

[north lotus]

I mean, that’s literally the origin of the Coonan .357.

[desert solstice]

i

c

i mean if it's canon "fug it" i aint gonna argue

still hilarious to me

[north lotus]

I’d say more akin to maybe a ancient artifact that got lost.

[desert solstice]

the autogun is an amalgamation of random guns

but god dammit the 1911 lives on

kek

[north lotus]

Wait til you see the heavy stubber.

[barren tapir]

That is from old lore, when they pretty much took what they had a little knowledge about and slapped it into the setting... We have the colt 1911 as example for stubgun (pistol) and the HMG M2 browining as example for heavy stubber... There is a a mess for terminology for guns in WH40K, and it is because the old lore is awful and memey

In truth both weapons wouldn't endure to that point

[north lotus]

There’s also the factor of every 1980’s rpg not knowing anything about guns.

Except cyberpunk.

[barren tapir]

Yeah, said that with this phrase "when they pretty much took what they had a little knowledge about"

[desert solstice]

to be fair i would not doubt in the slightest they found ancient 21st century gun designs and just reverse engineered them w their favored calibers

sounds like a tech priest/imperial thing to do

[barren tapir]

Hell, they state that some autoguns can go single shot, semi auto and full auto... Semi and single shot are the same

[desert solstice]

kekw

[north lotus]

There’s a potential difference if we consider rifle grenades.

[barren tapir]

It is a mess because it is people that know nothing about guns trying to make guns... Same is true for bolters, which were made just for coolness because if they are analyzed they fall apart... At least compared to how they are portrayed in the setting

[desert solstice]

speaking of ye olde tech, thing that always bothers me is the krieg just look primitive

like compared to your standard cadian guard

due to the ww1 inspirations

[barren tapir]

That is what they are, they are from a devastated world

Not much resources from a wasteland

[north lotus]

There’s minimal tooling required for some more primitive style designs

[desert solstice]

lack of standardization in the astra militarium goes brrr i guess

[barren tapir]

Yeah

[crisp heath]

they might mean you can set it where you have to manually chamber the next round but if that's what they meant that's just unnecessary on a a semi...

[plush mason]

that and their gear is made to protect against the toxic environment of krieg

[desert solstice]

so does that mean the helbore being poo compared to the lasgun is lore accurate?

[lilac wave]

It's a big galaxy, on that scale It's a miracle anything can be standardized.

[north lotus]

No, it’s not poo, it’s hyperspecialized in a role

[barren tapir]

There is also a lack of standardization in worlds too, which lead to lack of standardization in the armed forces they give... It is faulty from the root in the imperium

[north lotus]

https://preview.redd.it/cfpz689hfm741.jpg?auto=webp&s=94b0b9eb9e8fa023f741a95a785b4c2d56a93975

[barren tapir]

That would be very british indeed, but no, it is not like that since there is no way to load bullets that ways in the patterns that are described

[simple sparrow]

Bri’ish

[barren tapir]

The lasgun is not made on krieg

[north lotus]

It makes sense with rifle grenades, as I’ve said before. You don’t want to shoot a bullet into a grenade your launching.

[barren tapir]

The lasgun is made to be cheap and hard hitting

[dusk patrol]

Also to look like a bolt action WWI rifle

[desert solstice]

what're the none cheap alternatives?

[dusk patrol]

Which is what matters

[north lotus]

The way this stock is set up is genius for a uniform setup like kriegers.

[plush mason]

not quite. simi auto chambers the next round automatically where as single shot does not

[dusk patrol]

Most of 40k is aesthetics first and lore after to justify the aesthetics

[barren tapir]

Eh, good question about lasgun, since being cheap is one of their main point... Accatran would be one of the more pricey i guess

[desert solstice]

tbh it looks similar to a ww2 american browning squad automatic rifle

[dusk patrol]

It do have that

[crisp heath]

Autoguns are actually a bit more expensive to make and are mostly picked up when a regiment has been on a world for some time and can buy local weaponry

[dusk patrol]

Kinda depends on the depiction

[north lotus]

The shorter length of pull is a good idea when wearing armor, the stock is reinforced for melee, and the montecarlo stock is a great solution to the question of “how do you not have your rifle hit your mask”

[barren tapir]

Yeah, and in an autogun is useless... But again, british were the ones that went with "load each cartidge in the chamber directly by hand" well into WW2, only when officer say rapid fire you use the magazine

[plush mason]

ye

[north lotus]

It’s also a nice training feature

[desert solstice]

i so badly wish the accatrans hold more of their own on heresy+ the wail they make when firing is very satisfying for a sci fi wep

[barren tapir]

The accatran we have here are not how they are in the lore btw

[desert solstice]

i believe it

[barren tapir]

Training guns exist, and are not the ones used in battle afaik

[desert solstice]

given the pathetic dmg

[vapid cape]

Does anyone know the in game year for Atoma currently? I'm trying to out together some fix and can't see it mentioned anywhere (then again I may be being blind)?

[north lotus]

M41 y999/m42

[crisp heath]

sometime in early M42

[barren tapir]

During the indomitus cruade, so m42

[crisp heath]

They mention the Sicatrix Maledictum and imply it's new so it's probably not long after the Black Crusade

[north lotus]

25 or 6 to 4?

[plush mason]

training guns irl are ether dummy wood ones or just an actually gun with blanks or been modified to fire simumition

[north lotus]

Or, if you are a baller, using lasers.

[barren tapir]

Pew pew pew

[north lotus]

MILES GEAR BABY

[vapid cape]

Thanks folks 🙂

[barren tapir]

Oh oh, and talking about autoguns, you know how they solved the excessive recoil of a pattern? They put a weight at the end of the barrel...

[north lotus]

BARS system?

[barren tapir]

Which isn't that stupid after all, but it is still hilarious to me

[barren tapir]

You mean the rifle?

[plush mason]

well if the recoil is bad enough to turn it into an AA gun after the 3rd shot more weight at the end of the barrel would help with that

[north lotus]

I’m referencing a Russian counterbalance system they had that let you effectively have near zero recoil on full auto

[plush mason]

good counterbalance is key to controlling recoil

[barren tapir]

You mean the counter weight one? Which move forward while the bolt go backward?

[north lotus]

Here’s a explanation in gif form.

[barren tapir]

Yeah, ok, i didn't knew it by that name

[north lotus]

Yes, the “balanced automatic recoil system”

There’s a easier solution the west made, want to guess it?

[barren tapir]

No no, what i mean is literally adding a fixed weight to the end of the barrel so it is more heavy and don't rise too much

[plush mason]

the sight placement on the old AK47s still makes me cringe

[north lotus]

Maximizing sight radius

[barren tapir]

Slightly tilted to the left iirc, i find it nice

[plush mason]

still to close togeather

hard to get accurate shots at a distance

[barren tapir]

Hit me up mate

[north lotus]

It’s this strange thing called “properly gassing your rifles”

[barren tapir]

Naaaaaah, too easy...

[north lotus]

That’s part of the reason why the FN FAL has so many goddamn gas settings.

[north lotus]

It’s too complex actually.

[barren tapir]

Should i have used an /s?

[north lotus]

“Proper gassing” means you will to an extent run into issues in different climates

Like say in the winter

[plush mason]

from what i understand the US fucked that gun over hard during its late development stages

[north lotus]

No, I’m referring to how it has settings for fine tuning.

[barren tapir]

Yeah, it is the fight between west and east side, one go for maximum versatility without too much setting, the other goes for very specialized thing, but require lot of attention

[north lotus]

The problem with fine tuning is this:

[barren tapir]

You cannot do that always on the spot

[north lotus]

Some conscript or soldier will get the idea of “more gas= more reliable” and utterly overgas the weapon to a inch of its life.

[barren tapir]

Unless some madman is there tuning the gas exit under fire... Then that mad is a mad and also chad... Mostly mad though

[north lotus]

It’s a factory adjustment problem.

[north lotus]

There is truth to this equation, but most of the time, they take it too far.

Overgassing means you can use underpowered ammunition reliably.

This is technical design stuff

Basically gassing is a question between reliability and comfort.

[lilac wave]

Sort of unrelated, but has anyone else heard taliban fighters believed there was a button you could hold down on the ak to make it shoot better?

I can't even remember where I heard it from now.

[north lotus]

Ar, and Brandon Herrera

This is what they meant

The “forward assist”

[barren tapir]

I still don't get what that is for

[lilac wave]

Ah, thanks homie. Somewhat akin to cranking the gas all the way up so you shoot faster.

[north lotus]

If you have a lot of carbon build up from shooting it let’s you push the bolt forward to chamber a round.

[north lotus]

What I mean by this is the bolt on the weapon might not go home completely if you are doing a press check on a beat up example, so this way doesn’t require you to put your thumb on the bolt.

Though other than that, nada

[lilac wave]

I guess when your enemies are killing you with robots it doesn't sound so crazy to think their guns have aim assist. Though it might also be bullshit.

[urban spire]

sounds like propaganda

[north lotus]

Part of the origin was because they thought it made the gun more like a bolt action, thus more accurate. Or that inadvertently this lead to them doing proper shooting form by having their thumb pressing on the button

[north lotus]

Back when desert storm happened, the Iraqis thought the US had special chemicals in their canteens/water packs that let them go so long in heavy armor like the interceptor armor

[north lotus]

This armor

Turns out, it was just water

[urban spire]

that one's not too insane

[north lotus]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interceptor_Multi-Threat_Body_Armor_System

[north lotus]

It’s a variety of myths in one category

[urban spire]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychoactive_drugs_used_by_militaries

well

well

[north lotus]

Stimulants does do wonders for armies, but during desert storm I think only the flyboys were using it in extreme cases

[lilac wave]

Where's my meth ration?

[north lotus]

That’s a ww2 thing.

And mostly a axis thing

[urban spire]

i'm just saying, it's not unreasonable to suspect that kind of thing of the US of A

[north lotus]

It’s mostly flyboys.

[lilac wave]

Apparently, at least according to Wikipedia, US pilots could get meth up until 2017 under the right circumstances.

[north lotus]

But sleeping pills? I think everyone likes those.

[urban spire]

the US has a long and dubiously proud tradition of just testing random shit on their own people, soldiers or otherwise

[desert solstice]

no one does

[north lotus]

Pfizer has to get that miracle drug out somehow!

[desert solstice]

(couldn't resist)

[lilac wave]

Continues on to today with 5g towers and gay frog water.

[urban spire]

gay frog water and 5g should be basic human rights

[north lotus]

Trans frog water*

[urban spire]

that too

[desert solstice]

40k has battle stims

[urban spire]

to pull this back around to 40k

[desert solstice]

so i mean already is there

[urban spire]

the guard makes use of combat drugs sometimes

[north lotus]

40k has the joy of drugs being unregulated.

So all sorts of miracles can be made

[desert solstice]

Wouldn't call unregulated battle stims a good thing

[urban spire]

no there's tons of super illegal drugs in 40k

[lilac wave]

My favorite is called obscura.

[desert solstice]

it's like german meth if it was on meth

[urban spire]

obscura for one

[north lotus]

You do when you have a depressed psyker.

[urban spire]

yeah

[desert solstice]

sacrifice him to the emperor

ez

[urban spire]

also frenzon, the IG battle drug of choice, is very regulated

[celest sable]

wonder what iho sticks translate to, cigarettes I assume

[urban spire]

it's only given to penal legion afaik

[north lotus]

Or opium cigarettes if we want to get grimdark.

[desert solstice]

no more depressed psyker, psyker isn't wasted. Emperor is probably happy. Win win win.

[urban spire]

a Lho stick is like a weed ciggy

[lilac wave]

Oh wait no, obscura is just a normal drug. My favorite is...is well uh. It's called spook.

[urban spire]

it's a narcotic, not a stimulant

SPOOK OWNS

i was tryna remember the name

[desert solstice]

Jokes aside, genuine lore question. Wouldn't getting addicted to drugs be heresy?

[north lotus]

Hey, the guy has a mood field, that’s kinda why I’m concerned about the depression.

[desert solstice]

in 40k?

[north lotus]

Otherwise he’s nice.

[urban spire]

take spook, get random psychic powers, you brain explodes but that's not that big a deal

[celest sable]

Do the drugs have you join a cult?

[north lotus]

Depends

[celest sable]

if so then yes, probably heretical

[urban spire]

drugs are not against the creed, it's just generic authoritarianism

[lilac wave]

Honestly? The bigger heresy would be knowing why getting addicted to drugs would be heresy.

[desert solstice]

Well being addicted to a substance is doing it in excess. Isn't that veneering Slaneesh?

[urban spire]

the cult would and does consider drug addiction to be a moral failing, but not full on heresy

[celest sable]

man has a point here

[urban spire]

doing something in excess does not automatically make you a chaos cultist, it just makes you susceptible to the influence of chaos i.e. slaanesh

[celest sable]

depends how far the person goes due to the addiction i guess

[urban spire]

but also, being an addict does not mean you use a drug in excess

some drugs can get you addicted through very small doses. e.g. heroin

[desert solstice]

issue i have w chaos is that they're so vague anyone is susceptible to them

if you enjoy doing anything you technically might get addicted to it thus giving Slananesh power

[urban spire]

i don't think chaos is that vague

[desert solstice]

kill anything and you make nurgle relevant, or Khorne

[lilac wave]

That's the thing, chaos is fed by everything but really only direct worship is potent enough to care about.

[urban spire]

killing is more khorne than nurgle, nurgle is more about decay

[desert solstice]

have any curiosity and Tzeentch can influence u

[urban spire]

the chaos gods all feed on emotions that fall under their remit, you can't do anything about that, but that doesn't mean you have to actively be worshipping

[desert solstice]

to my newbie lore knowledge it comes across very wishy washy

i dont require hard set magic rules, but i want some rules dammit D:

like define "direct worship" as people have fallen to chaos indirectly

[north lotus]

Theres one genestealer cult that spreads it’s influence through poisoned medicine.

[desert solstice]

also some attributes are so vague

like yearning for perfection

[celest sable]

Sacrifices and rituals

[north lotus]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Twisted_Helix

[urban spire]

you have to be into something to an extreme degree in order to attract chaos, it does not commonly happen by itself. it's more like if some hive lord is being exceptionally decadent, he'll attract the attention of an already extant cult of slaanesh

[celest sable]

Indirect corruption usually leads to direct worship or extermination

[urban spire]

the cult will drive him to heights of decadence he wouldn't have achieved on his own

[desert solstice]

forget the space marine but they were like a master swordsman

[urban spire]

what?

[desert solstice]

so if you're the best at something do you just automatically attract Slaanesh?

[urban spire]

no

[storm jungle]

Slaanesh is about hedonism first and foremost

hence the excess part

also lots of "wants"

[celest sable]

If you're arrogant about it tho

And can't stop showing off

Slaanesh may take an interest

[urban spire]

if you're obsessed with being the best at something to such a degree that it consumes your entire life, it might attract slaanesh

[desert solstice]

but if you're the best at something naturally you'll be obsessed about what you're good at.

[storm jungle]

I mean no

[lilac wave]

In 40k basically every God spirit and religion leads back to chaos in some way, with notable exceptions. Like gork, mork, big e and the surviving eldar gods.

If worship a fertility God though? Nurgle. War God? That worship goes to Khorne.

[storm jungle]

Slaanesh corruption comes from being a literal psychopath about said obsession

[urban spire]

yeah that

[storm jungle]

You wont fall to corruption just because you go "Oh yeah im a great shooter"

[echo vault]

What makes an auto gun braced? In the construction of the gun more specifically

[barren tapir]

Nothing, it is not a real pattern

[desert solstice]

but taking pride, and yearning for perfection in your craft will?

[storm jungle]

If its to a hedonist/extreme level yes

[celest sable]

what about "I'm a great shooter, I just no-scoped Lucius" ?

[echo vault]

I'm just thinking it's like braced to your arm etc

[storm jungle]

That just makes you plot-armored

[desert solstice]

doesn't that on a lore level just not allow any mortal to be better than a daemon at anything?

[unique berry]

Emperors Children 👀

[barren tapir]

Nah, it is just used to indicate what they do in game

[urban spire]

someone who is obsessed to the point of attracting slaanesh will not just be obsessed with perfecting their craft, but also with fucking over anyone who they even suspect might be remotely close to them in skill

[north lotus]

It’s being built around automatic fire specifically;

[celest dome]

Damn, Perturabo could have gone to Slaanesh

[north lotus]

Braced autoguns are more like lmg’s than the infantry autogun’s assault rifles or headhunter’s battle rifles.

[desert solstice]

very oddly specific

[urban spire]

perdurabo absolutely went to slaanesh lol

[dusk patrol]

It’s when a guns teeth are really crooked so they have to put metal wires on it to straight them

[urban spire]

the kind of obsession represented in slaanesh is a very unhealthy kind of obsession, wholesome dedication to a craft does not fall under their remit

[desert solstice]

i suppose, but i dont think a single imperial doesn't have at least 1 unhealthy obsession

[storm jungle]

I mean they do

[south flame]

What exact year is darktide set in/

[desert solstice]

like by principle

[crisp heath]

Homunculi are very wholesome, hard working folks who are always looking for friends to practice their skills with :)

[storm jungle]

why do you think every imperial planet has a chaos cult

[lilac wave]

Uhhh, but anyway. As powerful as chaos is, it needs a way in. Real space is still poison to daemons, and opening holes they can come in through is not easy. Under the right circumstances a daemon might manifest naturally, but it's rare. Chaos needs help, needs cultists to draw the circles and do the sacrifices.

[urban spire]

most citizens of the imperium don't have time to be that obsessed with anything

they've got backbreaking unsafe labor to perform

slaaneshi cults usually crop up among decadent elites

[desert solstice]

i mean fair, i mostly mean the astra milatarium, and astartes chapters

actions that're "incorruptible" since everyone venerates either the emperor, murder, their own principles.

supposedly

[urban spire]

space marines are not normal humans by any stretch, but even they sometimes fall to corruption

[desert solstice]

you could argue some* astartes chapter themes borders on unhealthy obsession for some space wolves

[crisp heath]

Nurgle is the most likely God to nab a random imperial because disease and disability are rampant in hives and people will turn to nurgle cults to stop the pain. Outside of that, chaos worship isn't too common on imperial worlds.

[urban spire]

nurgle is the god of giving up all hope and embracing your misery, that's why nurgle cults turn up in hive cities so often

[celest sable]

i'd think tzeentch cults are the most widespread...its just very few of the cultists know they're in one

until the end

[urban spire]

well, tzeentch is also the god of hope

wish the writing would play with that more

[desert solstice]

guess what's weird is the overlap between chaos gods

like it feels like there's a lot

[crisp heath]

He also has a gambit where he creates a disease, promises release from the suffering of the disease, and when the victims will breaks "fixes" it by giving them an even worse one

[desert solstice]

like imagine a scenerio where you're a scholar you join a nurgle cult to be immune to the fatal effects of disease, to study the disease to create a cure

who're u venerating?

[crisp heath]

Nurgle

[desert solstice]

Tzeentch, or Nurgle or both?

[urban spire]

you're not venerating nurgle if you want to cure his disease, that's for sure

[echo vault]

That's braces

[desert solstice]

but you join out of the ambition for knowledge and discovery

[dusk patrol]

[crisp heath]

He might corrupt you with the promise of a cure only for your mind to eventually be warped into deciding the cure is more disease

[urban spire]

nurgle does not offer knowledge and discovery, if you joined a nurgle cult on that premise you'd end up pretty disappointed

[dusk patrol]

Wow you cracked the case

[celest sable]

isn't that kinda Festus's lore in warhammer fantasy ?

[urban spire]

no idea

[echo vault]

I want my braces autogum

[crisp heath]

Souls can pledge themselves to certain gods, or gods can mark out a soul they want for some reason, so when a nurgle cultist dies or does something slaaneshi the energy still goes to nurgle

[desert solstice]

wack

[urban spire]

if you dedicate yourself to chaos, your patron deity will mark you for your deeds, not your words

[crisp heath]

That's why each chaos god got a primarch and why slaanesh gets all Eldar, there's basically a psychic bond between a cultist or victim and their god

[urban spire]

chaos worship is a very physical act

[brittle slate]

Wel it’s a choice now isn’t it

[brittle slate]

Everything in 40k is very medieval in that fact

[urban spire]

if you claim to be dedicated to nurgle but you don't act in accordance, you're likely to offend nurgle and turn into a pile of something unpleasant

[brittle slate]

Deeds actually cause evolution in some cases

[crisp heath]

This is also why abaddon is hardline chaos undivided, he knows if he accepts anything from one of the big 4 he'd be bound to them forever and probably become a daemon, because this bond is pretty much permanent

[brittle slate]

I don’t even think this is possiblity

I don’t think there are any “fake” believers in 40k of any diety

[urban spire]

i don't mean faking it exactly

more like making a promise and failing to deliver

[brittle slate]

Right

[celest sable]

plenty of imperial heretics "believe" in the God-emperor. I dare say at least half of the ecclesiarchy don't buy what they're selling

[crisp heath]

Most admech do believe something different than the "official" line of the cult mechanicus

This is usually brought up when talking about "Emps = Omnissiah", it's not true for a lot of them

[urban spire]

the admech has a whole bunch of sects, some heretical, others kinda riding the line

they do venerate the emperor for the most part, just as a physical representation of the omnissiah rather than as the deity in its entirety

for example it wouldn't be the end of the world to them if the golden throne failed and the emperor died for real, because their religion is animistic, and their true god is the sum of all knowledge and every machine. the physical body would be gone, but the void dragon OMNISSIAH would still be there as the sum of all knowledge

[crisp heath]

It would literally be the end of the world though because they still need him to be a battery for their warp flashlight

[urban spire]

the warp flashlight is a luxury not a necessity

[brittle slate]

I don’t think this is the case

[urban spire]

you can navigate without it, plenty of people do, it's just harder

[crisp heath]

I mean it's possible yeah but definitely not ideal

[urban spire]

the astronomican is not visible from the other side of the cicatrix maledictum, for example. things are bad there, but not unsustainable

[brittle slate]

There’s too many examples of events proving belief

[crisp heath]

Navigators would probably have to learn to navigate mainly by warp current which is a pretty random way to get around

[brittle slate]

Faith is “real” in 40k. It has a direct correlation to how things work

[dusk patrol]

Yeah but like

Most people don’t see that

It’s a big galaxy

[brittle slate]

Every time you turn on a light switch might as well be revelatory

[lilac wave]

Doesn't imperium nihilus have a fake astronomicon or something?

[brittle slate]

I can’t think of one example of an imperial citizen* “atheist” still around in modern 40k

[urban spire]

i don't know, but any sufficiently powerful imprint on the warp can act as a beacon. the votann for example are functional beacons to the kin

[barren tapir]

Bile

[celest sable]

yeah Erebus and Lorgar kinda killed the concept of atheism with their bs about the "Primordial Truth" and the lectitio divinatus

[crisp heath]

A lot of chaos undivided folks, T'au

[urban spire]

it's just that navigators can "see" the astronomican from almost anywhere in the galaxy (or could until the cicatrix maledictum)

[crisp heath]

Abaddon and Bile don't think chaos gods are "real gods"

[barren tapir]

Perturabo too probably

[urban spire]

necrons arguably

[barren tapir]

Big G too

His rogue trader friend

[lilac wave]

Custodes would count as well, Guilliman probably. They still love emps but don't worship him.

[crisp heath]

Sebastian Thor himself was actually quite a bit more lukewarm about religion than most people realize

[celest sable]

are the tyranids atheist?

[barren tapir]

Oh, yeah, custodes are definitely atheists lol

[urban spire]

actually i'd argue that anyone who would be an atheist in real life is more like an anti-theist in 40k

[barren tapir]

SoS sadly got plagued with religion, or at least some of them

[urban spire]

seeing as how gods definitely are real, the only thing you can do is deny their divinity

[barren tapir]

If you deny their divinity then you are atheist since for you there are no gods anyway

[brittle slate]

Right we’re talking about regular people in 40k let me clarify

[crisp heath]

Oh Bjorn Fellhanded more or less explicitly says that the emperor isn't a God, just a powerful psyker

[brittle slate]

I’m not talking about any of of the upper echelons of imperial society that obviously are in the know

[barren tapir]

And there are no gods indeed, since they are all warp entities that like to RP as gods... But that then beg the question of gods can be defined in some objective way... And then it devolve in a shit debate anyway

[brittle slate]

And by regular people/ I mean humans.

[celest sable]

well no more than nowadays I imagine, a lot of imperial citizens never see any sign of divinity

[barren tapir]

Big G rogue trader friend

[urban spire]

who is big g exactly?

[barren tapir]

She was nearly killed for saying that big E wasn't a god

[lilac wave]

Yeah, probably most would tow the same line as Fabius. They exist, but are simply non-sapient figments of the galactic zeitgeist

[barren tapir]

Guillman

[urban spire]

oh right

[crisp heath]

Cain actually is pretty much agnostic. He takes a view that religion is kind of dumb and if the emperor really is a God he still doesn't do much.

[tidal dome]

So does anyone know how Inquisition funds their endeavours? From what I understood they are essentially a decentralised intelligence agency and there's no standard to what they do or what resources they have. Some might be a necromunda private detective style guys, some might have a ship (like Grendyl), some might have an entire fleet

[barren tapir]

Which was the main philosophy that big E tried to enforce

[urban spire]

cain was a huge pessimist

[brittle slate]

I still don’t think Cain could be called an atheist though

[crisp heath]

Inquisitors have generational wealth and the authority to requisition any resource they deem necessary

[barren tapir]

There is actually lots of people that only pay lip service to religion in 40K, but you have to read between the line to find them

[last lagoon]

Fabius does go back on that Iirc in his later books and acknowledges the chaos gods as sentient/sapient

[urban spire]

the inquisition has unlimited authority and can basically only be countermanded by guilliman, the high lords of terra, or other inquisitors (which tends to get messy)

they don't so much fund their endeavors as requisition whatever they need for them

[tidal dome]

Although I bet they tend to not overuse it, because if there's any reason of ending in a ditch it's getting someone else's money. There's Adeptus Terra and all the rest of them which wouldn't look too kindly to shameless money and power grab

[brittle slate]

Eisenhorn had his own economy basically just before he went radical

[lilac wave]

In the eisenhorn and ravenor books the inquisitors and their retinues were not particularly religious. One very religious man is painted as a sort of oddity.

[crisp heath]

Like 90% of inquisitors live off shameless money and power grabs lol

[lilac wave]

He was sort of having his arm twisted.

[barren tapir]

Which book?

[urban spire]

inquisitors usually know too much to be religious, or they know enough to be VERY religious

[brittle slate]

Yes- but none of them would say the emperor isn’t god.

[crisp heath]

Inquisitors are above the law and above all authority. It is a death sentence to disagree with the inquisition, even if you're at the top of the imperial power structure

[brittle slate]

It’s “the god-emperor of mankind”

[celest sable]

they have authority over space marine chapters too, but I don't remember many instances where they tried to requisition them

[tidal dome]

So someone who tries to live "fair" would be a generally smiled upon practice.

[crisp heath]

Eisenhorn literally explains that's one of the philosophies some inquisitors ascribe to

[urban spire]

space marine chapters are not inside the imperial power structure, space marines AGREE to work with the inquisition, and the inquisition agrees not to make any unreasonable demands

[celest sable]

ah ok

thought they had authority over them too, just chose not to exercise it

[tidal dome]

He then had an ultra depression when he realized that this entire story is actually AGAISNT Emperors will, but decides to hide and preserve this knowledge rather than destroy it

[crisp heath]

Eisenhorn does believe the Emperor is a God, but that he was born mortal, which is basically what all Thorians think

[urban spire]

it's kind of like how the monarch of england can technically veto any law, it's just that if they did that, england would very quickly cease to be a monarchy and become a republic

[lilac wave]

And agrees (sometimes) not to have them slaughtered wholesale by the imperium's true super soldiers.

[tidal dome]

Because he did uncover that what they are doing is something Big E stood firmly agaisnt

[urban spire]

or something republic-adjacent

whatever i'm not a politician

[crisp heath]

Off the top of my head i can think of two wars between inquisitors and loyal space marines

[urban spire]

i hope i get my point across

[barren tapir]

Which was?
Come one cannot leave us in such cliffhanger

[celest sable]

there was the soul drinkers, who else?

[crisp heath]

Even before Months of Shame, inquisitors had less authority on Fenris because Fenris borders on heresy and no one there wants to cooperate with them

[brittle slate]

And even this would be heretical to the ecclesiarchy hardliners

[crisp heath]

Celestial Lions and Space Wolves

[urban spire]

did the space wolves come to blows with the inquisition over the armageddon thing?

[brittle slate]

Which would be heresy

[last lagoon]

Manflayer I think

[barren tapir]

Initially no, then yes

[celest dome]

Month of Shame or something

[crisp heath]

Oh yeah, space wolves originally avoided violence but ended up killing Grey Knights and Kysnaros himself

[lilac wave]

I believe Grimnar murdered an inquisitor and told they grey knights to go home.

[urban spire]

fuck yeah, that fucking owns

fuck the grey knights, i don't like space wolves much but i am so happy to hear that lol

[brittle slate]

Yeah but then they folded like a chair during the magnus attacks

[urban spire]

yeah whatever they're space wolves who cares

[brittle slate]

And let the inquisition purge a planet.

[urban spire]

there's like a million of them

[brittle slate]

I’m not a fan.

They killed the civilians.

[urban spire]

oh folded like that

well boo

[brittle slate]

Yeah.

Stupid.

[lilac wave]

The Grey Knights are good boys, they just don't usually think about their orders.

[crisp heath]

Technically that conflict is still ongoing, it's just in a ceasefire but the inquisition is entirely willing to break that ceasefire if a good opportunity presents itself

[brittle slate]

Should have just blown up Fenris.

[urban spire]

grey knights are definitely not good boys

[brittle slate]

They’ll always be bathing in sister blood for me

[urban spire]

killing anyone who finds about them who isn't on the need to know list is not good boy behaviour

[crisp heath]

Tbf during the Months of Shame a Grey Knight captain was conspiring to assassinate Kysnaros before Grimnar did the job for him

[urban spire]

ah yes, the khorne knights

[lilac wave]

Listen, being a good boy is a sort of relative term in the imperium.

[brittle slate]

I’ve always hated the grey knights though

To specialized to be their own army

[crisp heath]

Like, the inquisition itself wanted him dead and there was a 5d chess conspiracy to kill him and then Grimnar just hit him with his sword

[urban spire]

grey knights were special double marines before the primaris

[brittle slate]

Same goes for custodes and daemons.

[tidal dome]

Inquisitors are really in a pickle in the fact that they essentially have unlimited authority, but also they have to deal with consequences of fucking something over. Eisenhorn didn't want to start ANOTHER civil war, by showing to the public that their entire faith is essentially a lie. Guilliman followed the same idea

[urban spire]

i need to read the rest of ravenor

[crisp heath]

Inquisitors have unlimited power and unlimited responsibility, Rogue Traders have unlimited power and no responsibility.

[urban spire]

i've read all of eisenhorn and the first ravenor, but i ran out of money and had to pick between gaunt 3 and ravenor 2

[rich vale]

Meanwhile Big E "I'll fucking start another War, I conquered the galaxy I'll do it again you god worshipping little shits"

[brittle slate]

Filetype pdf is your friend.

[urban spire]

i do audiobooks

on my phone

[brittle slate]

Ah

[urban spire]

too ADHD to sit still and read most the time, gotta be doing laundry or vacuuming or something

[tidal dome]

Good thing they didn't actually give him the Text To Speak device, or that would be one hell of an event

[urban spire]

emps had a word with guilliman didn't he?

[tidal dome]

Hard to tell. Haven't read that book. Did they communicate directly or was it left out of screen?

[urban spire]

no idea

[tidal dome]

Because if the guy CAN SPEAK, why the fuck hasn't he over 10K years for fucks sake

[urban spire]

i don't even know what book or books that shit takes place in

probably because his brain's already pretty strained

[lilac wave]

Dark Imperium trilogy.

[urban spire]

he's dying for real you know, the throne is failing and the mechanicus doesn't know how to fix it

[tidal dome]

All he had to say is "No. You are fucking wrong. Custodes, fuck them"

And the whole religion story would be ended in days

[urban spire]

i think he figured the status quo was better than a custodes crusade to kill every ecclesiarch

[crisp heath]

Yes, they talked

[tidal dome]

It would be fucking epic, now wouldn't it
https://youtu.be/I9n6iMeIW8A

[lilac wave]

He may be playing the cards he's got. There's no putting chaos back in the bottle now, better to become a bigger god.

[urban spire]

idk, i don't like the ecclesiarchy but i don't like the custodes either

[crisp heath]

It was a psychic thing, not dialogue. The gist of it is that guilliman now sees the emperor as a manipulative monster and the emperor flat out told guilliman that he was a tool, and he would be forced to free Emps

[urban spire]

oh nice

i really like that actually

fuck that emperor guy i've been saying that for years

[tidal dome]

I mean, they are esseintially super-mega-uber soldiers, comared to regular astartes who are just supersoldiers, and primaris who are super-uber-soldiers

[urban spire]

which boys are more special, the grey knights or the custodes?

[crisp heath]

Oh yeah people who see the emperor in recent lore are not impressed

[tidal dome]

Custodes, no double thought about it

[crisp heath]

A Sister of Silence actually calls him pathetic

[urban spire]

damn

[lilac wave]

Custodes full stop. All custodes are giant, beautiful and gay. Just like the emperor.

[echo vault]

Custodes, grey knights are like the black ops guys who kill chaos stuff bad enough to fuck up systems/sectors

[crisp heath]

Custodes are the specialest possible boys

[tidal dome]

I mean, SoS can actually see him AS HE IS, rather than WHAT HE WANTS THEM TO SEE, so I guess it's pretty accurate description. He did get super fucked up after getting smashed with a force mace repeatedly

[urban spire]

what makes custodes special? grey knights are all incorruptible psykers, what do the custodes do? they didn't have a tabletop army last time i read about them i don't think

no rules, not much lore

[crisp heath]

Yeah she basically just sees him a dying man with no power to save himself, suffering and accomplishing nothing

[barren tapir]

Are you sure it call him pathetic? I remember reading it call it unassuming and just a normal guy

[crisp heath]

She wasn't really thinking of the emperor as a person ig, but rather the state he was in

[urban spire]

i really like that humanity is becoming more and more psychic, even in the tabletop

[crisp heath]

But that passage has the really cool detail that he's twitching which is much cooler than the cyborg skeleton

[tidal dome]

Kinda sad really. If he wasn't such an undecisive buffon, he could have gotten out of that rumble intact

[signal bramble]

Custodes were also made to be the closest companions and confidantes to big E himself. They were also specifically designed to kill Astartes.

[echo vault]

Thunder warriors*

[signal bramble]

Not according to the emperors legion series.

[urban spire]

but what makes custodes special

[lilac wave]

Each custodian is a handcrafted masterwork of genetic engineering made by the emperor himself. They are to space marines what space marines are to men. Every one is a poet, philosoper and general. The Emperor loved them like his own oily harem of boytoys.

[signal bramble]

Custodes were designed to kill Astartes.

[echo vault]

Why not both

[crisp heath]

During the unification war Big E actually considered Valdor nearly an equal and they co-ruled the Imperium

[signal bramble]

TW’s were just an experiment anyway.

[echo vault]

Did they fuck

[lilac wave]

Absolutely.

[echo vault]

Ok cool

[crisp heath]

Honestly it's hard to not see Emps, Valdor and Malcador as sweaty throuple of giant men

[signal bramble]

Though that wasn’t big E’s true form jte clear he enjoyed hanging out with the bara types.

[celest dome]

The Emperor love to think himself as Alexander the Great, but we all know who the real Alexander the great of 40k is

[urban spire]

i don't

creed?

[celest dome]

Lord Solar Macharius

[lilac wave]

Malcador was probably getting a bit too old to take Big E's little(but still very big) E.

[crisp heath]

MACHARIUS

[echo vault]

I like the aquilon terminators a lot, this art was like the coolest thing ever when I first saw it

[urban spire]

they're a bit much

[crisp heath]

Although I'm going to be real here, Malcharius was stupid if he genuinely believed he could conquer the Eye of Terror

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/go-leave-me-alone-golden-girls-you-have-to-go-now-rose-gif-22287138

[echo vault]

The actual models are pretty toned down and less insane

[celest dome]

That's not what he wanted though

[signal bramble]

There is no such thing as “a bit much” in 40k.

[lilac wave]

That's the design principle for custodes. Wait, did I say little too much, I mean WAY TOO MUCH.

[signal bramble]

Being over the top and excessive is core to this setting.

[echo vault]

I just wish they showed combined aquilon and allarus terminators

Because there's no reason they'd throw away god tier armor and such from the heresy

[urban spire]

i mean they fit the setting, they're just a bit much for me

[signal bramble]

I have a custodes army. I do like my Allarus even if they aren’t meta.

[urban spire]

they're kinda extra, you know

[echo vault]

Allarus are cool, their art makes them look a lil stupid but the models are nice

[crisp heath]

Who would win, perfectly engineered immortals who have trained for millenia and are fitted with the most advanced arms and armaments in the setting, or a trapeze artist

[storm jungle]

I mean

[echo vault]

He looks like a goober

[storm jungle]

those "trapeze artist" literally solo demon armies

so you know

[echo vault]

Harlequins are custodes eldar

[storm jungle]

Also custodes can literally die to mining lasers

[urban spire]

i don't like all the boys only clubs in 40k where everyone is a towering pillar of perfect meat

[crisp heath]

Nah I actually quite like Harlequins in theory, good elves

[urban spire]

i'm a mechanicus girl

[echo vault]

The harlequins are the final form of the insane clown posse

[storm jungle]

[lilac wave]

No joke though, one of the coolest things about Custodes is that they fight side by as as equals with the sisters of silence

[echo vault]

Cegorath is literally shaggy 2 dope and violent J

[storm jungle]

As much as I like that GW also forgot the Sisters existed for years

[urban spire]

the bolter halberds are goofy too

[storm jungle]

and also put this in the lore too

[crisp heath]

When you see the juggalo you holding your jugular

[echo vault]

The adrasite spears look better

[urban spire]

i love a halberd, and bolters are cool, but they don't mix well

[echo vault]

They don't jut out too insanely

But pyrithite I love

Melta but op

[urban spire]

why would you put a bayonet on a melta and then put the melta on a stick

[crisp heath]

There are 4 genders. Depressed, lethally horny, clown, and hippie on a dinosaur

Oh and Jesus

[echo vault]

Funny

[urban spire]

don't be ridiculous, there's a whole clown wig spectrum of genders

[echo vault]

Now that I think about it where is the melta equivalent to a plasma blaster (twin linked plasma gun) the multi melta DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT

[lilac wave]

Can I be genderfluid between clown and jesus?

[urban spire]

you don't think depressed lethally horny clown on a unicycle is a real gender?

[echo vault]

That's the ynnari

Fluidity between all flavors

[crisp heath]

Ngl tho I really wish there was like, really any exodite stuff

[urban spire]

aren't they mostly farmers

or am i thinking of something else

[crisp heath]

Exodites are like, high tech Flintstones style cavemen

[lilac wave]

They farm xp for their dinosaurs. Like ark.

[crisp heath]

Deadass just told slaanesh "no thank you." Love exodites.

[storm jungle]

They were basically the first eldar to go and leave the empire yeah

basically just wanted to chill and smoke weed

not even a joke

[echo vault]

Pirate eldae

[dusk patrol]

Amish Eldar best Eldar

[storm jungle]

^

You literally cannot hate them

[crisp heath]

Exodites were just like "hey I understand the drugs but maybe we shouldn't have murder orgies" and everyone called them prudes so they left

[storm jungle]

My guys were living that college fratmate mindset

[dusk patrol]

Based and it’s not much but it’s honest work farming a maiden world-pilled

[echo vault]

Imagine pre fall eldar exodites being the equivalent of tradcaths

Just like super cringe

[dusk patrol]

In a book we see the lead up to the fall

To say the writing was on the wall is underselling it

Made Sodom and Gomorrah look like a Sunday school

[crisp heath]

You do not need to get vored by God to understand that "fucking someone's brains out" is a metaphor

[echo vault]

Made it look like Jehovah's witness

What's the Amish eldar equivalent to churning butter

[storm jungle]

Pre-fall eldar were also literally stealing people from the streets to bring them back to their cults and sacrifice them in blood rituals

like you couldnt go outside without being in danger in most planets

[urban spire]

think that's just churning butter

[echo vault]

I just don't think elves eat butter, because fyat

[crisp heath]

That's why it's so much fun that Comorragh was originally a prison. Like, what exactly did these guys do that made everyone else go "hey man, too far, get in the pocket dimension"

[storm jungle]

It wasnt a prison

it was more just uhh

whats the term

somewhere where you fuck off to without laws to have fun/do illegal stuff

it was just a port-city

[celest dome]

Oubliette

[storm jungle]

Yep

[dusk patrol]

It was Detroit

[urban spire]

comorragh was just a space initially, didn't get awful until after the fall when they realised they HAD to hang out in there to not die, right?

[dusk patrol]

Webway Detroit

[echo vault]

Detroit is overused

More like

Kowloon

[dusk patrol]

Unfortunately Webway Eminem wasn’t able to save them

[storm jungle]

It was still pretty bad but again was just a simple port-city, after the fall all the hedonistic eldar fled into there

[dusk patrol]

It just kinda lucked out

Didn’t get destroyed

[storm jungle]

^

[dusk patrol]

Lots of the Webway got torn apart

[urban spire]

definitely not detroit, detroit was intentionally fucked for reasons we will not be getting into on this day on this server

[echo vault]

Webway favela

[dusk patrol]

[storm jungle]

A few noble families survived too before Vect wiped a majority of them out way down the line

my guy went full Escobar

[dusk patrol]

Webway old timey Singapore is maybe more accurate

[echo vault]

Kowloon you mfers

This in the webway

[crisp heath]

Yeah Kowloon walled city except the wall is always infinitely far away

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/saltzpyre-saltzpyre-no-warrior-priest-no-saltzpyre-warrior-priest-no-vermintide-gif-24413806

[storm jungle]

The webway is a lot more spacious

[echo vault]

That last picture looked like diarrhea

[storm jungle]

nowhere near that cramped

[dusk patrol]

It is kinda cool though

In a sad way

[storm jungle]

yep

[dusk patrol]

Kowloon

[urban spire]

rip kowloon

[echo vault]

Cramped for an eldar is different compared to other species

[storm jungle]

favorite Black Ops level

[crisp heath]

There was a government building in the dead center and it was the only structure that wasn't built up. Bodies fell on its roof on multiple occasions, which is honestly kind of 40k.

[storm jungle]

Zola literally says it in game too

something about the canals beneath the bridge of fools being clogged with bodies

[urban spire]

hive habs are kinda turbo kowloon yeah

[storm jungle]

yeah more or less

[urban spire]

hey shoutsout to the fuckin level designers, they did an incredible job with darktide

even if i get kinda tired of the gameplay i still want to go back to tertium over and over

[crisp heath]

Honestly hive cities are usually portrayed as a lot more open than you'd expect, even in Darktide

Necromunda has a lot of relatively open spaces too

[urban spire]

i really hope we get singleplayer so i can do a slow play where i actually get to look at everything

[storm jungle]

I usually just crank it to Difficulty 1 and go take screenshots

a bit easier

[urban spire]

i want to soak in it

there are so many unique assets

[storm jungle]

jukebox with a skull in it my beloved ❤️

[urban spire]

i also suspect i'm going to be finding a lot of really clever asset reuse once i get the chance to really stick my nose in everything

[crisp heath]

Ok there is one thing that always stood out to me about 40k architecture, and I have never seen anyone mention it

Elevators are always massive and always have doors on both sides

[urban spire]

in darktide it's to accommodate the ogryn

[dusk patrol]

The most Grimdark fate of all

[rich vale]

Ogryns no like tiny spaces

[crisp heath]

It's also in Space Marine, Necromunda, I've noticed it in some art

[rich vale]

Or dark spaces

[urban spire]

in general, hives have massive elevators because everything was designed with the expectation of moving cargo

[dusk patrol]

You’re stuck playing “What’s up Pussycat?” 20 times for grimdark Jon Muh-lanee

[rich vale]

How else do they get the ATVs fucking everywhere, even places you'd never physically be able to ride them

[urban spire]

yeah the ogryn in darktide is a fuckin champ

[crisp heath]

I think cawl is also in a massive elevator in one of the Gothic Armada 2 cutscenes?

[urban spire]

all that time spent in a hive which is an actual nightmare scenario for an ogryn and not a single complaint

[rich vale]

Sure, let me ride my atv up these 17 flights of stairs and park it in this coffee shop

[rich vale]

They do complain but it's a rarity and only triggers in a handful of areas

[crisp heath]

I might be the only lore nerd who can recall every time I've seen an elevator lmao

[dusk patrol]

They don’t love the heat for one

In the smelter areas

[urban spire]

fair

but nobody likes that

[crisp heath]

Oh the elevator to Cawl Inferior is supposed to be huge too, but that's probably to accommodate Cawl himself

[rich vale]

The elevator in one of the hourglass missions Ogryns will occassionally ask for any other way up

[urban spire]

oh yeah that's one of the smaller elevators isn't it

[rich vale]

There's another elevator I think in Hab dreyko they beg to find a staircase instead

But not all elevators have this dialogue

[urban spire]

but yeah hives are usually made specifically for the purpose of manufacturing a shitzillion of something

or the non-specific purpose of making a shitzillion of a lot of things

throneside has smaller elevators i think

maybe i'm remembering wrong

the new throneside mission has an elevator after the first hack sequence right?

[crisp heath]

Angels of Death? Huge elevator.

I don't know why I latched onto this. They're just really big.

[urban spire]

what is angels of death?

[crisp heath]

Official animation

[urban spire]

ah, space marines?

[crisp heath]

Yeah Blood Angels

[urban spire]

well there's your reason

gotta fit all the big boys in the big elevatus

[crisp heath]

Oh yeah they put a dreadnought in that thing and still have room for the kill team lmao

[urban spire]

i almost wish we didn't have the ogryn just so i could see what the levels would look like without having to accommodate them

[arctic talon]

honestly most of the buildings would prolly look the same

big ass doors

[urban spire]

although we'd also have to go without the plague ogryn and the beast of nurgle in that case

[arctic talon]

very large and intimidating things

[urban spire]

the new blogpost explicitly says they made doors and stuff bigger

and cleaned up a lot of clutter in corridors and stuff

[crisp heath]

Beasts of Nurgle aren't too bad without an Ogryn, it's just hard to kite the vomit

[arctic talon]

eh

It also applies to the ogryn enemies imo

[urban spire]

"and stuff" appears to have entered my vocab as a filler word, gonna have to rein that in or i'm gonna sound real dumb

[arctic talon]

for door size and stuff

[urban spire]

yeah that's what i was saying

[crisp heath]

Ooooh I thought you meant Ogryns make those enemies easier

[urban spire]

nah, the latest blog post talks about, among other things, how ogryn and bosses changed the level design

[crisp heath]

I actually think a design where a beast of nurgle can end up Confined to a relatively small space could be fun, as long as it had a way to hit you through the door to cut down on cheese

[urban spire]

"no plague marines but a beast of nurgle is fine" is still a bit odd

[signal bramble]

Whenever I see a monstrosity burst through a door I always go in to the room and wonder how they fit.

[crisp heath]

I don't even think all 4 classes combined are unrealistic to be a threat to marines. Ogryns probably match them in brute strength, veteran isn't a random guardsman, he's a veteran, and I think some dialogue confirms the psyker is an alpha class.

Like the rejects are tough fuckers

[urban spire]

not alpha

no way

alpha level is like

whoa

RAVENOR is barely alpha

[signal bramble]

A psyker can easily kill a marine if they’re strong enough. A teenage psyker kills several primaris marines like they’re nothing in throne of light.

[urban spire]

actually is he?

hang on

[signal bramble]

The veteran plasma gun could core a marine if he gets a clean shot.

[crisp heath]

Ravenor is called an alpha once but is usually placed somewhere a bit lower

[signal bramble]

Plasma will easily blow a hole through marine armor and go out the other side.

[urban spire]

ok ravenor is high delta/low gamma

[dusk patrol]

Yeah

But also Abnetts scaling kinda uh

Is off compared to everyone else

With what they do

[crisp heath]

But in terms of sheer destructive power the game psyker is a fair bit up there, and it's obvious that he's in serious contact with the warp because of how easily his powers can kill him. Dude would be a walking warp gate if that didn't ruin the gameplay.

[dusk patrol]

He kinda puts them too high

[urban spire]

abnett sometimes just doesn't give a shit

[signal bramble]

One of the psyker lines also says they got some training in resisting the warp before being sent in.

I got it as the female loner voice pack.

[urban spire]

i'm 3 books into gaunt and he still refuses to refer to tanks by name, just calling them "main battle tanks", chimeras, or making up entirely new tanks

[dusk patrol]

Like the scene where he has all the alpha plus psykers escape, and they really don’t do that much for what alpha plus psykers are supposed to be able to do

[crisp heath]

But yeah anyway my point is the PCs aren't just some randos, even though the game tries to make it feel that way. They're all really tough cookies.

[signal bramble]

Yeah.

[urban spire]

yep

[signal bramble]

The zealot would probably have the toughest time taking out a marine.

All the others have the tools.

[urban spire]

the "rejects" have some crazy shit

[signal bramble]

Well the zealot has a Bolter. So maybe.

[urban spire]

the zealot is just insanely competent for no well defined reason

[crisp heath]

Idk there's some redemptionists who can do some whack shit and that's as close to the in-game zealot as I can think of

[urban spire]

no real training, no special abilities, just zeal

[signal bramble]

Mine was the highly trained shrine guard one.

That back story states they go through some really hardcore and brutal training to qualify.

[urban spire]

the backgrounds are weird

my psyker isn't from atoma but her voice sure is

[crisp heath]

Like the people who make it their calling to serve the emperor do tend to have access to resources others don't because there's a lot of violent sects in the imperium who will arm and train them

[signal bramble]

I’ll change my mind about the zealot if they give him a melta gun. A melta shot will wreck a marine.

[urban spire]

eviscerator is a real threat to a marine

[signal bramble]

And I think they will because the ecclesiarchy believe in the holy trinity of bolter, flamer, and melta.

[signal bramble]

I don’t trust a normal human in hand to hand against a marine.

[urban spire]

cain did it

[signal bramble]

He didn’t beat the marine.

[crisp heath]

Cain also assumed he was about to die

[urban spire]

cain sells himself short all the time

[signal bramble]

And Cain is outright stated to be one of the best duelists trained by Miyamoto Debergerac.

Some zealot is probably not that good.

[urban spire]

cain also didn't have an eviscerator

though he did have jurgen with a melta

[signal bramble]

He used a regular chainsword because he needed the speed.

An eviscerator is slow.

A marine could smash his head in before he swings it.

[urban spire]

anyway our zealot isn't alone either