40k-lore-chat

[barren tapir]

This always crack me up, just like when they say that something is the same size of a small moon... Yeah, ok, but what does that mean GW?!?!

[dusk patrol]

Just your standard on the market world obviously

Just visit your local world real estate agent to check

Inflation has been bad since the Great Rift though

[barren tapir]

But it was great for the prices, they dropped like flies...

[brittle slate]

Almost half of the real estate market was a bubble.

[earnest snow]

Abaddon's economical policy really hit different

[dusk patrol]

There’s also excepts of Govenors selling their world or whatever and becoming Rogue Traders with large fleets

Which just raises more questions

Whose buying this? How expensive is a fleet? Who are you paying for a rite of passage?

[earnest snow]

Who do you even sell your world to? The space DMV? Administratum paper work wouldn't be worth the effort

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/pawn-stars-yes-yass-awesome-gif-21935666

“Look the world has seen some cultist activity, it’s not in its prime anymore, it’s gonna be sitting in my dominion for awhile and I gotta find the right buyers and merchant”

[earnest snow]

Tertium governor be like

[brittle slate]

I guess you could sell your planet to your neighbors?

[earnest snow]

Errr atoma prime I mean

Either way that's interesting? It's different from government positions being given to people and what not. Instead they're sold to, I hope, Imperium approved candidates otherwise I can see small pockets of sectors being sold to some space mimic or something.

[brittle slate]

That definitely happens

Lol

[earnest snow]

"I am a human. I absolutely do human things. Watch me as I eat with this utensil."

[brittle slate]

No, but GW clearly has problems with scope, economy, numbers

“It’s just fucking cool”

[barren tapir]

Probably sold to other nobles, maybe even from the same planet, which buying such title could claim more legitimacy to rule it compared to others nobles of the same planet

[earnest snow]

It works 50/50

Sometimes it's cool and sometimes it hurts my brain

[brittle slate]

The thing I like about darktide is that if this is the aesthetic GW is going to double down on (and they should) then we’re really reinvesting in the whole grimdark gothic space dark ages

Which felt like we left after 8th

[earnest snow]

I just want my 2h chainaxe already ;-; alongside seeing more of the Hive. I think they could do a lot with the Hive.

[barren tapir]

Max i can do is 2 ogryn weapons

[earnest snow]

Even then they could do a lot with new enemy variants like if the tide breaks into the spire the poxwalkers are more noble in appearance despite being...well poxwalkers

[earnest snow]

screams

[barren tapir]

AFAIK hordes in throneside have better clothes than those found in other maps

[celest dome]

Hopefully they introduce the rest quite rapidly following it

[earnest snow]

I'm hoping for a preacher like special to appear so we get to experience the ear bleeding sensation the zealot gives to the heretics

[barren tapir]

That would be ragers

[signal bramble]

It’s all about barter and trade deals.

If your planet has some specific valuable thing it can be worth a lot.

[celest dome]

The problem with selling your planet is that it's somewhat short therm gains

[signal bramble]

In Outgunned, the guard are sent in to protect a backwater swamp planet because they make a wine that the nobles of the sector really like.

That’s it.

[celest dome]

Like you would need to sell it for something quite special for it to be useful

[barren tapir]

I hope that the guards managed to stop the export of such wine by consuming it, or better yet, defend the planet, but destroy all the vines...

[celest dome]

Or know something the buyer doesn't (Like Chaos or GSC uprising under preparation)

[gusty sequoia]

what guards main guns

[barren tapir]

Lasgun

[celest dome]

LAsgun

[earnest snow]

All it takes is for nobles to like one thing and bam the guard are sent in hordes to defend it

[gusty sequoia]

was it any good

[signal bramble]

The lasgun is weak by 40k standards but compared to any modern infantry rifle it’s far better.

A las shot can shoot an average person’s arm clean off with ease, is easy to produce and maintain, and doesn’t need ammo.

[rustic spruce]

Are tyranid adaptations on a fleet per fleet basis or is that shit account wide

[vital kernel]

This, Darktide does a great job of showing just how much more effective Lasguns are than Autoguns or comparable gear.

[barren tapir]

Fleet by fleet basis

[signal bramble]

By “ammo” I mean you don’t need to produce a fuck ton of bullets.

Lasguns are meant to use rechargeable battery packs.

[barren tapir]

With the problem that lore goes with both having the same power

And it is arguable that autoguns are actually marginally better than lasgun, but have bigger problems with logistics

[earnest snow]

Energizer bunny working overtime to make them lasguns work

[signal bramble]

In Flesh and Steel the main character uses a large caliber solid slug handgun because he feels it’s more effective in keeping a target down.

[vital kernel]

It's just a question of caliber/power output.
A high caliber Autogun like 8.25mm has more power shot to shot than most Lasguns, but the Lasgun can just be tuned for more power consumption. You can scale both up until you get to Lascannons and Artillery

[signal bramble]

He doesn’t really like las weapons.

[barren tapir]

Exactly... Autoguns have on their side a stopping power that lasgun don't, and that is only the more easy to spot vantage

[signal bramble]

Logistics seems to be the main thing behind the lasgun.

Though people meme on it, the lasgun really isn’t a bad weapon by the standards of infantry rifles in sci-fi.

[barren tapir]

No, not really, sure, you can push up the power on a lasgun, but it will never have stopping power, it would probably penetrate stuff better, but that is also debatable since autoguns can have AP ammo too

[dusk patrol]

I mean they do blow off limbs in lore

[proud mango]

i mean given that they're supposed to be fired en masse, isn't the point of the lasgun to cut something down before it gets close for stopping power to be a thing?

[vital kernel]

Stopping power, sure that comes with projectile mass. But that ignores the issues of ballistics etc.

[barren tapir]

It is, lore wise it is exactly why they switched, originally and for quite a lot of time of the great crusade autoguns were the main weapon of the imperial army

[signal bramble]

The Probator prefers solid slug because it injures and keeps them in pain vs the cauterization of a las shot.

[proud mango]

can imagine powerpacks being easier to produce, recharge and transport than tonnes of bullets

[signal bramble]

That’s exactly the point.

[barren tapir]

Yup, you don't need to have supply lines, if they can recharge their batteries from every energy output they find... While not resolving every problem with logistics it make it lighter to manage them

[signal bramble]

I love using the lasgun on my sharpshooter. I was thinking of grabbing a Lucius one and the shovel for the true death korps experience.

It’s also emphasized in the lore that lasguns and their packs are very easy to produce. Like forge worlds can apparently churn out millions of them with ease.

Along with the lasgun being a very study weapon to.

[proud mango]

less moving parts means its easier to maintain too

[rustic spruce]

What is the assault doctrine

[signal bramble]

Space marines getting in close for glorious melee combat.

[barren tapir]

Both lasguns and autoguns have pros and cons, but from a simple performance on the battle POV autoguns are simply better... If we take in consideration other parameters, like easy of training and accuracy then lasgun might come on top, although we know that some dumbass thought that giving lasgun recoil was cool and didn't thought that lasgun being recoilless would be such a boon to the weapon lol

[signal bramble]

Sorry. I meant GLORIOUS MELEE COMBAT

[signal bramble]

There have been contradictions about recoil.

[barren tapir]

And not only forge world, even hive worlds can produce them in huge numbers

[gusty sequoia]

who used plasma gun

[barren tapir]

Not contraddictions, some patterns have it and some others don't

[vital kernel]

"but from a simple performance on the battle POV autoguns are simply better", well, until the very limited magazine capacity runs out

[signal bramble]

Tau, Admech, space marines, chaos marines, and the guard.

[proud mango]

design flaw or what

[signal bramble]

And the Votann now.

[vital kernel]

technically, a platoon of Guardsmen could have a generator running in the trench with a bunch of Mag loaders and shoot from monday to sunday

[signal bramble]

Almost forgot.

[dusk patrol]

Tbh autoguns arent consistently shown as being any better

Some are I’m sure but lasguns are almost always considered higher tier

[barren tapir]

See, you are already putting in other parameters... Not saying that autoguns are the best always, they just can fare better than lasgun if we take only the performance in a battle, without taking in consideration other external stuff like logistics

[dusk patrol]

It’s also why gangers can almost never get their hands on some

[signal bramble]

Auto guns are usually considered civilian tech. Las are considered military grade weaponry.

[proud mango]

probably because they're easier to manufacture locally and bootleg if necessary

[dusk patrol]

Some autoguns and stub guns are better or comparable in stopping power but lasguns don’t really work like lasers in a lot of ways

[barren tapir]

It has been handwaved as intended design to give shooters the feeling of shooting... But you can up with any reason and it would probably still be lore friendly

[dusk patrol]

And those are generally some really nice patterns which would probably be compared to hellguns more than lasguns

[proud mango]

ah fair enough. that's actually a decent reason to do it if any.

[barren tapir]

Technically yes, but such generator is not common tech and it would require to be brought there too in the first place

[signal bramble]

My head canon was always “depends on the power of the shot.”

[dusk patrol]

insert the 50th time Abnett has mentioned the Hecutor this book

[vital kernel]

Even in battle I don't think the case is that clear cut. You should not underestimate a weapon that has the firing properties of light. It requires way less skillful aim, and way less shots to actually hit. No leading targets, no windage.

[dusk patrol]

I don’t really see much for autoguns having that much superior stopping power either

[barren tapir]

Not always, in fact there is a pattern that be said to be better than all lasguns... It generally depend on the author

[vital kernel]

I wouldn't call a simple power generator obscure tech. We don't see them in the game, but getting electricity is not exactly magic.

[dusk patrol]

Lasguns blow limbs apart and one shot the fuck out of most normal guys in lore

[vital kernel]

Any Leman Russ has it's own power generator.

[barren tapir]

Tell this to the escher lol, they even ship them outside necromunda lol

[dusk patrol]

Necromunda is it’s own thing

[signal bramble]

If I remember correctly some lasgun power packs can be recharged by putting them in a fire.

[dusk patrol]

It’s the exception to every rule

They have plasma and Bolter weapons

[rustic spruce]

When will gorkamorka get the vehicular combat game it deserves

[vital kernel]

That is rather obscure forgotten fluff. There can be a case for transforming heat into energy, but the average Lasmag doesn't strike me as that high tech-

[barren tapir]

Yes, but why should i get such energy to a thing that churn out ammo when i can skip that passage and recharge the batteries?

[dusk patrol]

It’s just from Gaunt’s Ghosts

And there’s not a lot to suggest it’s changed

Lasgun packs have always been nuts

It’s part of what makes the lasgun so damn good

[signal bramble]

It’s always going to depend on the caliber and if we mean rifles or not. The probator I mentioned was offered a laspistol but preferred his futuristic version of a desert eagle because it kept his targets down.

[vital kernel]

I think there is a misunderstanding, I'm not talking about a generator that powers a little ammo factory, I am talking about a generator that powers a mag loading station for Lasguns

[finite inlet]

Need to remember that everything is on a sliding scale. Some powerpacks might still be able to charge like that but copies of copies of copies might be missing something that allows it.

[signal bramble]

He was also independently wealthy so he could afford a souped up handgun.

[barren tapir]

Aaaaaahhh, yeah, that definitely happen

[dusk patrol]

Sure but I’m talking more the standard, which almost always has the lasgun being far superior

Because if we’re bringing more exotic and well crafted guns in, then I’d just say the Hellgun

[signal bramble]

I’m glad there are folks here that appreciate the lasgun and don’t meme on it. XD

[signal bramble]

Oh this is a police force in my example.

Not arbites.

[dusk patrol]

It’s a really fucking good gun, people just get their lore knowledge from 1d4chan

It’s frustrating as hell

[signal bramble]

Yeah.

And you have enemies that can casually shrug off las shots anyway.

[dusk patrol]

“Hurr durr flashlights, angry marines, Matt ward, Rowboat girlyman”

[barren tapir]

The lasgun is in no way a mediocre weapon for sure, it is a really solid one, but it is not this superior to autoguns, unless we bring logistics in

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/haha-yes-i-have-achieved-comedy-comedy-meme-mememan-gif-18929279

[signal bramble]

Logistics is exactly what the guard is.

[vital kernel]

There's different calibers for Autoguns, varying from Pattern to pattern. A lot of them fire full sized cartridges like the 8.25mm, which would be a pain in the ass to control in full auto, while others fire smaller, intermediary cartridges similar to modern Assault Rifle ammo.
So some Autoguns may have more punch than a regular Lasgun, some will have less.
Just imagine being a Munitorum Scribe trying to ship 25 different types of Ammo to 200 Warzones

[dusk patrol]

So this just doesn’t work as a statement

Because “autoguns” aren’t a thing really

[signal bramble]

In gaunt they ship the wrong power packs.

[dusk patrol]

Sure some autoguns are better in some ways but most of the time we do not see them doing what lasguns can do

[vital kernel]

And I have no doubt that some patterns of Autogun simply "suck", because they may come in a wimpy caliber, and some may be loathed because they only fire full auto in .50cal. The Admech makes weird shit like that sometime.

[signal bramble]

Apparently their lasgun used type 3 cartridges while their logistics got type 4.

[dusk patrol]

The bog standard autogun we typically see is not really that great

Some are really nice sure

[barren tapir]

They do, but are less shown

[dusk patrol]

But the standard autogun compared to the standard lasgun is not really superior

[rustic spruce]

The catachan barking toad is funny in how excessive it is

[sinful crater]

i do have a question, atoma prime seems to be an important world... then can we think that a group of adeptas sororitas is stationed in tertium?

[dusk patrol]

And if we’re bringing in special crafted stuff then like, the lasgun also has superior variants

[barren tapir]

The problem with autoguns is that many of their representations are of pitiful quality, while lasguns are always shown as being good quality made, but autoguns that are on the same quality of lasguns are capable of doing the same thing

[vital kernel]

Not on Atoma, but probably Crucis

important to the Administratum does not mean important to the Ecclesiarchy

[sinful crater]

i means with the last vox they did post, it seems to have secret archive complexe is thronesite... then...

[vital kernel]

Same as I could imagine Branx Magna having some Techguard around

[rustic spruce]

Gotta wonder how malcador was able to run the administratum so smoothly

[vital kernel]

that's the thing you wonder about with Malcador?

[dusk patrol]

It’s more higher quality autoguns can compare but then we get into the thing of, a higher quality lasgun is gonna eclipse that further with the Hellgun or hotshot or whatever you wanna call it

[rustic spruce]

Man made that bureaucratic nightmare operate at peak efficiency

[vital kernel]

the main issues with Autoguns in Darktide is that we haven't yet seen the light that is M40 Armageddon Pattern, which will cleanse Tertium from the taint of Heresy in under a week.

[dusk patrol]

So like, yes autoguns can become better than lasguns in some ways much like bolters can but the cost to make them tends to not be worth it, and the bog standard autogun is inferior

[barren tapir]

No, you are missing the point, autoguns are comparable to lasguns, if they are of the same quality made, and when you bring hotshot lasgun i will bring autoguns with special ammo loaded, and they are still on the same level... The only reason for lasgun use is they are less a logistic nightmare, but for damage potential they are on the same level

[sinful crater]

well we do enter the warband of an inquisitor at level 30 that give us access to some top shelf equipement normally.... then

[rustic spruce]

Lasguns take less training to use than an autogun

[barren tapir]

Sure, you can find some sources that state that lasgun are superior, like there are sources that state that autoguns are superior to lasguns, but for general speaking they are on the same level

[signal bramble]

The SoB don’t really work that way.

They’re usually guarding important shrines and religious sites.

[sinful crater]

sadly we don't know a lot about atoma prime... nor tertium then i begin to think we lack too many info about this world.

[signal bramble]

More planetary lore would be welcome but I’m not sure if we are going to get any of them showing up.

[dusk patrol]

Considering we haven’t seen one or heard of them

Probably not

[signal bramble]

I’d rather they flesh out the existing classes and characters than giving us some SoB or space marines to look at.

[dusk patrol]

It’s possible they were tied to the Shrine Worlds we see examples of

[barren tapir]

Depend if on atoma prime there are important clerical figures or important churches

[dusk patrol]

We’re not gonna get a SoB class anyways

[sinful crater]

we did go in the low level of the hive, abandoned part, the first medium level we did seen was thronesite... hard to know what they have higher

[rustic spruce]

The holy site is hadron’s thighs obviously

[dusk patrol]

I mean they could exist sure but we haven’t heard anything and that’s kinda an important detail

And once again, I would be very surprised if we got a SoB class for a lot of reasons

The Preacher already basically fills the Repentia role

[sinful crater]

we are reject at the start, i doubt they will share any important info about this place....too many risk to have info leak if we are traitor.

[dusk patrol]

FS probably isn’t gonna restrict the gender of newer classes if they can help it

[dusk patrol]

Like just being real, this is a huge stretch

It could happen of course

[signal bramble]

I can imagine some sob armor. (For a nominal fee)

[dusk patrol]

But like, so could marines

[rustic spruce]

The new class will be just kerillian

[dusk patrol]

Could also turn out we have a secret assassin temple on the planet

[sinful crater]

the trouble is you can purchase a sob armor but only for zealot female.... come on, you will have more backlash than for the timer

[rustic spruce]

And you will be forced to hear lumberfoot for 1000 hours

[dusk patrol]

A SoB monastery is a big deal

And typically they’re on shrine worlds or the like

And they’re a focal part of the world

It’s borderline like having a chapter attached to a world

But with more political power

[rustic spruce]

Do successor chapter have their own successor chapters

[dusk patrol]

If we get SoB to show up, it would probably be from the local shrine world

[dusk patrol]

Yes

Black Templars I believe have some, the Astral Claws had a few

[signal bramble]

Yeah but it’s a high honor so the successor chapter would have to be amazing to do that.

[dusk patrol]

It’s something they haven’t done much in recent lore but it can happen

[sinful crater]

@dusk patroli see where you come from with this. but honestly with the darktide element and how the sector seems to have many trouble we don't know how the troops are dispatched.... we did heard in the first vox that the plague did come with troop that did fight on the frontier, meaning troops move around. (what feel weird since normally troops in contact with chaos are often keep far away from civilian)

[dusk patrol]

I feel like this doesn’t hurt my argument at all

[signal bramble]

They can create a female only SoB armor and a male only version.

The Sisters of Battle and The Misters of Battle.

https://tenor.com/view/see-myself-out-gif-14903880

[sinful crater]

[signal bramble]

The only SoB class I could imagine is a repentia. Maybe.

[sinful crater]

joke aside, i was asking because recently you have a lot of sister of battle appearing in the different WH40k game, like martyr, gladius and battlesector

[dusk patrol]

Like if we have them having to send in shitty pdf and rejects against a cult while the Sisters of Battle are doing nothing

I think they could make an appearance down the line I just think it’s super unlikely they’re on Atoma Prime

For a lot of reasons

One main one being it’s not really a world they’d probably be on

Especially when there’s a shrine world nearby

[sinful crater]

a point to note, right now we didn't really meet any daemon or high ranking cultist... lieutenant most of the time...

[dusk patrol]

I’m not talking about us seeing them directly

[rustic spruce]

Imagine if fatshark just said fuck it and added a culexus

[dusk patrol]

I mean nothing on them existing or operating

They’re not subtle and they’re not secret

[brittle slate]

eversor or bust

[dusk patrol]

If they were on world it would be in all the propoganda

Eversor solos the game

On Damnation endless

[celest dome]

Beast of Nurgle ?

[brittle slate]

that would be a cool single player

[rustic spruce]

You go to help a downed eversor and he explodes

[brittle slate]

takes out the entire sector of the hive

[dusk patrol]

Eversors are just nuts

[celest dome]

Repentia can already be done, the only way to make a SoB class or Archetype is to set it on Act/Shield of Faith instead of the heavy armour or the zealotry

[sinful crater]

that a bit little for nurgle type... they did infested a lot of human with the plague, and we don't have anything like nurgling, blightbringer and such

[dusk patrol]

Beast of Nurgle is worse than a lot of that stuff

[celest dome]

Appart from the Nurgling

[dusk patrol]

There’s clear signs of major corruption, daemonhosts, actual possessed machines and sectors

The one daemon tree

SoB would kill you if you tried to stop them

[celest dome]

Also aren't Blighbringer some type of CSM ?

[sinful crater]

that what i means you have all the sign of a major corruption and we only have seen beast of nurgle.

[dusk patrol]

That’s not an “only”

That’s pretty fucking bad

[sinful crater]

true we have corruptor.

no i means, generally it's progressive before a beast of nurgle appear you will have all the lesser daemon that will help spread chaos

[celest dome]

I mean, apart from the Beast of Nurgle there isn't much we could still see that would make sense
Plaguebearer as Elite, Nurgling as critter, Bilepiper as support Special ? All else, no reason to be in the hive, to strong or to rare

[rustic spruce]

Where all the nurglings at

[celest dome]

They are in VT2, but they are way to small to be active enemies

[meager zinc]

has there been any canon "martial arts master" ork warbosses yet in 40k lore?
i like the concept of an ork leading his own waaagh because he invented his own type of "orkjitsu" or something.

[rustic spruce]

Is a sloppity bilepiper in our ballpark for enemies

[celest dome]

Yes

[rustic spruce]

Add them and have em function like a standard bearer from vt2

I just want a 40k video game in which noise marines appear as enemies and attack by busting out a sick guitar solo

[undone zodiac]

Brutal legends

But 40k

[celest dome]

The would pad out the Dregs quite a bit

Like they currently miss a Mauler replacement and ideally 3 Ogryn replacement

Like Plaguebearer for Mauler, replacing the armour by just being full of vitality

[signal bramble]

Sort of. In Catachan Devil the main ork war boss prefers kicking and stomping his enemies to death above all other things. He even got some work done on them by an ork mekboy to make them extra stompy.

[signal bramble]

I’d prefer if each type has their own specials/elites rather than mirrors.

[signal bramble]

I was thinking one of the giant daemon flies but a flying enemy probably doesn’t work in this game.

Not unless we get more outdoorsy maps.

[signal bramble]

Maybe some daemon engines could appear.

The little corrupted tentacle eye thing we see looks like a mini bloat drone. It’s even in death guard armor colors.

[dusk patrol]

I expect there to be something added with the escalations

Chaos Spawn obviously being one thing

[barren tapir]

From the code we know about a tox ogryn iirc

[signal bramble]

There’s supposed to be something tomorrow iirc.

[dusk patrol]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Chaos Spawn ends up being tomorrow

But we’ll see

[rustic spruce]

Lord of skulls tomorrow

[rich sail]

plaguebearers and nurglings

[rustic spruce]

Does a lord of skulls have a way to protect it’s sides and rear or does it need to spin around

[barren tapir]

Cool factor and GW thinking that the only way to face something is by being in front of them

[dusk patrol]

It’s also a daemon engine, physics and realistic engineering are optional

They tend to work and move more like organic entities than machines anyways

[celest dome]

Sure, but it would act as a melee elite for them, and would be quite different with not having any armour but having a lot of health and mass

[dusk patrol]

I can’t recall much for excerpts on how they fight but they’re pretty fast iirc, I always kinda pictured them like the one miniboss from Doom Eternal

[barren tapir]

Yes, you are right, but threads are threads still

[dusk patrol]

With the hover sled

[echo vault]

WTF is a groaner

[barren tapir]

Have you present the hordes? Have you present the people with still enough clothes and not enough horns? Those are the groaners

[barren tapir]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1940517467281298697/4DE53227F6C69F5F7EE598E6DC0FE769489873FE/

These are groaners, minus the one on the left probably

[echo vault]

Oh ok makes sense

I have that kill every kind of dreg penance and I'm missing one

[barren tapir]

Hardly are these ones, these are quite common when hordes attacks

Maybe you are missing the shotgunner

[echo vault]

I've killed the dreg shotgunner many times

But I'll keep playing ofc

[celest dome]

Gunner ?

[spark relic]

Is the Tox Flamer considered a dreg by any chance?

Might be that one

[barren tapir]

Yes

[celest dome]

I think it is

[dusk patrol]

Yeah

[crisp heath]

[spark relic]

Thanks for the confirmation, you hive-minded rejects

[urban spire]

what?

[dusk patrol]

I think he’s a heretic but I’m not sure

[sinful crater]

i doubt we will see any new mission or enemy before 2-3 week sadly....

[celest dome]

We might, the last few vox seem to imply it

Though we aren't fitting to the channel objective

[sinful crater]

the vox seems to implie that we will get a mission in thronesite, in an archive complex.... but if they want to develop the story they need to have what come after... then :x

[sinful crater]

not it's directly said at the end of the vox, to ask morrow to send the reject

[celest dome]

We are the Rejects

[sinful crater]

they seems to have loose a lot of auric operative and prefer send reject because of an objective grendel are after

[celest dome]

Not Bardin is saying that the Auric are not enough, and to send Rejects

And it's not the Thorneside mission we already have

[sinful crater]

when you play enclave they talk of an archive complex, that is not the objective of this mission

[celest dome]

Yes, so it's likely going to be a new mission

So I don't understand what you mean by developing the story behind it

[dusk patrol]

The audio logs have kinda built up the situation is getting worse

[sinful crater]

the vox implie that the archive complex hold some importance for grendel... means if we are send there, we gonna touch of the finger what grendel is cooking... means they will need to start to develop the story, because so far, we don't have the story

[celest dome]

They most likely have pretty much an expansive story ready

Like you don't take abnett to not write one

[sinful crater]

yes, but they need the mission and event ready for it.

[celest dome]

And they most likely already have it

[sinful crater]

i'm not talking of the story side, more about the gameplay side

[thick cedar]

I know this is probably an unpopular mindset, but I like to believe the grimdarkness is just a broad explanation of the 40k universe. LIke the average life of a citizen is rough but the examples used in lore is somewhat uncommon. Not saying its a great place to live but I'm saying its not nearly as dark as the books describe. An example of what I mean is like how in Elder Scrolls Nords in lore vs actual Nords in Skyrim. Nords in lore would lead you to believe theyre all nomadic and all fight nonstop but the reality is that people live normal lives.

[celest dome]

Otherwise they wouldn't tease iit

[dusk patrol]

I definitely lean away from the grimderp stuff

[celest dome]

Most of the Imperium we see is the one that is going bad

So it stand to reason that some part are going quite well all things considered

[dusk patrol]

I don’t mind conditions being shitty but like

[sinful crater]

soo far what we have seen of tertium are kinda the slum in a way... thorneside is the first part we seen that seems to be what the common people have as live

[dusk patrol]

There’s dumb stuff like “people barely live to 14 in the mines, you have to kill five babies in order to flush the toilet”

Just completely unsustainable stuff is so lame imo for writing when the Imperium has been around for 10,000+ years, just make it evil but not stupid as fuck

It’s nonsensical

[thick cedar]

I like to believe some of the lore is unreliable narrator stuff

[dusk patrol]

I get it’s supposed to be failing but you don’t stick around for 10,000 years by accident and luck

[sinful crater]

it depend of the world i guess... we know that some world are more feodal or more sacred world and such depending of where you live, life will be different.

[dusk patrol]

Sure and I don’t mind them being complete shit

I just don’t like grimderp stuff

[sinful crater]

sadly what are shown to us is the conflict part and naturally it's grim, because we have the whole situation in sight, we know all the horror and enemy the imperium must face... but for the people of this world it's them life... they probably don't see it as bad as we take it

[dusk patrol]

Which is just like “and then the governor ate all the adorable baby orphans so he could have one nice glass of wine”

[sinful crater]

i doubt this sort of governor stay long as governor haha

[dusk patrol]

“Royce was 20 years old, a ripe old age for a hive person”

It’s just boring writing

With no thought behind it

Doesn’t feel like a world which exists

[thick cedar]

it ruins my suspension of disbelief tbh if its too dark

just feels like unintentional self parody

[dusk patrol]

It feels like the writer just thought “oh what’s the worst thing ever?”

It’s 14 year old shit

[arctic talon]

Lol

[thick cedar]

I like to imagine its like Coruscant in star wars

its sketchy and shouldnt walk alone

but its managable

[dusk patrol]

Yeah the worlds have to be places where people can live

[arctic talon]

Necromunda excluded

[dusk patrol]

People can survive in really shitty environments

[arctic talon]

Because it might as well be an alternate universe

[dusk patrol]

Even Necromunda honestly isn’t that bad in the upper levels

It’s most just a focus on the lowest rung

[celest dome]

And depending on which hive you're in

Certain Hives on Necromunda are warzone top to bottom

[dusk patrol]

Yeah the Ork hive and the Genestealer hive are uh

Not cash money

Unless you’re an Ork or a Genestealer or respectively

Then they probably rock

[celest dome]

Was is an Ork Hive, or an Ork ruins or something ?

[dusk patrol]

I know the genestealer one they just guard and don’t let anyone in or out

Can’t destroy it

The Ork one I think it’s similar but they did bomb it?

[celest dome]

I know there is one controlled about exclusively by House Cawdor, that one must not be nice

[dusk patrol]

Mostly they focus on the main hive in the books so it’s just like small references

[mellow fable]

I have a lore question if someone can answer it. In the Garro audio dramas there is a custodian with what is called a Sword-bolter, does anyone know of any other instances of them existing and if they are pictured at all

[signal bramble]

They still use them.

[dusk patrol]

^these

[signal bramble]

And they’re on the models.

[dusk patrol]

They’re kinda neat

[signal bramble]

If you look at the base of the blade you can see the barrel.

[celest dome]

Sentinel blades

[signal bramble]

And on the other model you can see the trigger.

[celest dome]

Power swords +2 Bolter

[signal bramble]

On the tabletop the sword one is classified as a pistol.

The spear bolter is not.

The axes have a bolter also.

[dusk patrol]

Not as much variety with them though sadly

Like the Melta Spears

Which are one of my favorite 40k concepts

[celest dome]

Right, it's a Bolt caster or something

[mellow fable]

Oh thats really neat, i thought they were just chunky swords. thank you so much

[dusk patrol]

pyrithite spears

That’s the ones

[signal bramble]

Nah. Custodes have the best of the best gear available to them. All finely crafted by the best artisans.

[dusk patrol]

Also it’s 40k, all things are chunky

Also models aren’t truescale

So in art they look a little better

[mellow fable]

i mean true, but thats why we love it

[signal bramble]

Custodes stuff is modeled to be a bit more elegant and sleek though. Generally speaking.

Their armor and gear all have smoother lines.

I would know I have a custodes army. XD

[dusk patrol]

They’re neat

[signal bramble]

I have imperial knights, death guard, custodes, and I was doing chaos daemons (Slaanesh specifically) and Votann to pass the time. But 40k is secondary to my MMO and I’ve been playing Darktide a lot.

[mellow fable]

i have an entire age of darkness box to build and paint still.

[signal bramble]

My custodes army.

[mellow fable]

Pretty swanky my guy

[signal bramble]

This Allarus captain is my favorite. I dedicated it to a dear friend of 20 years who passed.

But anyway!

They’re a fun army.

[mellow fable]

I'm making a 40k primaris army with a paint scheme inspired by my childhood cat

[signal bramble]

I based my entire custodes on my mmo guild.

And my imperial knights on the officers of the guild.

I did make them lore appropriate colors though. Painting lore appropriate custodes is easy. Just prime them gold and you’ve got 90% of the work done. XD

[mellow fable]

true!

[gusty sequoia]

dose cadia stand have audiobook

ok found it

[broken echo]

Did the emperor and Vulkan actually offer to let Magnus return?

[signal bramble]

When?

At what point in the timeline?

Because by the time Magnus tried to warn him about Horus it was too late.

[broken echo]

I'm watching a lore video and it mentions a quote between magnus and vulkan. Some point after the horus heresy, but I'm trying to figure out when

[neat yew]

Hello I am not a 40k person, can someone tell me what a daemonhost is? Some of the voice lines say "demons can't come outside of the warp" etc so I'm confused about them, especially since they escape through a portal if you don't kill them fast enough

Where did you come from, where did you go, where did you come from daemonhost joe...

[broken echo]

I think a person possessed by a demon. Demons can't exist outside of the warp, but by possessing things they can by pass this kind of

[arctic talon]

A daemon host is a daemon possessing a physical human body done via a ritual

Not all possesed people are a daemon host

But all daemonhosts are possessed

[neat yew]

Oh wig, does the host choose to do it to themselves or are they forced by another?

[arctic talon]

Depends usually it’s forced

If the daemon and the actual host are working in tandem

It isn’t a daemonhost

[timid ferry]

One of those two above. But usually daemonhosts are purposefully created by imprisoning a daemon within some poor sods body

[arctic talon]

It’s a possesed

^

[neat yew]

So why would someone make a DH and what do they generally do? Other than chill in the middle of a room waiting for curious guardsmen

[timid ferry]

Knowledge

Daemons know many things

[arctic talon]

Daemon hosts can be chained to do tasks or for knowledge

You can use a daemon host to slaughter a bunch of people

Or to interrogate it for information

[neat yew]

Ok so the demon doesn't really want it to happen either

You trap a demon in a body?

[gusty sequoia]

and its hard to kill in darktide i just run when bots shoot him like no thanks i want to live

[arctic talon]

Yep

[neat yew]

Neat

And gross

[timid ferry]

Yeah, I discovered that the hard way. Took a shot at what I thought was a regular mutie. Oh how wrong I was

[neat yew]

Thanks guys

[timid ferry]

Fucker is fast too. Covered the distance (easily near max) in about 5 seconds

[arctic talon]

They can teleport lul

Actually horrifying

[timid ferry]

Yeah. Thought I was safe up on the catwalk. Nope lol

[arctic talon]

Would be funnier

If the daemon host teleported you to it

Ngl

[gusty sequoia]

well he is not hard to kill if you have 4 max ogryn

[celest dome]

Would be so damn more scarier

[gusty sequoia]

i was reading cadia stand and read somethong about soldier can drank in age 16 ?

[mystic geyser]

Imagine being allowed to kill people and not drink. 😅

[gusty sequoia]

in usa you can join army at 16 but cant drank

[celest dome]

Welcome to Europe

Land of the Freer

[arctic talon]

It’s the imperium

Lol

The drinking age is prolly like 12

Or 10

It’s a way to keep people in line, if you work extra hard in the factory

You might get a bit of alcohol

[celest dome]

With parents I think in my country its 12 or something

[gusty sequoia]

well now i know how they lost cadia lol

[arctic talon]

Dying for the emperor is the highest honor

Any sort of irl morality or belief systems don’t really apply

[storm jungle]

I mean

the Cadians are literally child soldiers

so they dont really care once they hit puberty

[arctic talon]

White shields kekw

[atomic pelican]

You know, I have a Black Crusade character named Babystomper for clear reasons who was at Cadia

[arctic talon]

You can play child soldiers

On the tabletop

[atomic pelican]

This gives him a whole new context

[arctic talon]

Just bring 60 white shields lol

Use 60 cadian children and teens as cannon fodder

[atomic pelican]

The 'school trip' build

[arctic talon]

60 white shields

140 conscripts

2 company commanders

And a transport baneblade

[atomic pelican]

God im so glad conscripts are dead LMAO

[arctic talon]

Casual 40 shots from white shields

80 with first rank fire

[atomic pelican]

120 with a full blob

[celest dome]

Take a Psyker (Make the hair orange), put it near a Rhino and some White shields and you have Miss Fritz' Magic School Bus

[arctic talon]

Honestly I hate conscript blob armies so much

Especially if they play slow

[atomic pelican]

Yeah theyre awful

Thus why Im glad conscripts are dead LMAO

I had the fortune of playing only CW into them, and youve never had a more pure joy until you table 120 conscripts in a shooting phase because of insanely efficient chaff clear shuri weapons

Or just blasting their officer so their shooting drops in effectiveness like 80%

[arctic talon]

Ngl I wish conscripts got slapped with the

Must take 1 squad of troops/veterans

For every conscript squad

[atomic pelican]

Im fine with them just being flat gone

[arctic talon]

Yeah

So are veterans sorta

We have the new shock trooper/jungle fighter/death korp “veterans”

[timid ferry]

Grenadiers. The ones that managed to survive long enough. They get the most dangerous missions. If they manage to survive that they return to the rank and file as sergeants

Or at least iirc that’s how it works

[barren tapir]

During the horus heresy, just before the siege start iirc, magnus infiltrate the imperial palace, there big E give him the chance to return to the good side, but he would have to sacrifice his legion, which big E say is already lost since the flesh change mutation, magnus refuse, give himself totally to tzeenetch and try to kill big E... This is the summary

[barren tapir]

Yes

[charred hornet]

any buddy know what a Indignatus Mk IVe Crusher is?

that a gravity gun?

[signal bramble]

It’s probably the Ogryn version of the power hammer/maul.

[charred hornet]

Achlys Mk I Power Maul

k

[vital kernel]

Not sure but wasnt that implied to have been an impression Magnus gave himself while Big E just straight out told magnus he's lost.

[charred hornet]

so they hare giving the ogryn a powerhammer.... lol

that sounds safe

[signal bramble]

It makes the most sense.

By the name I mean.

I want to give my sharpshooter a maul and a shotgun and pretend to be an arbites.

[charred hornet]

that would not be bad

i am running Kantrael las and chain or power sword

cant decide which sword i like better

[vital kernel]

Arbites should be it's own subclass with crowd control and suppression mechanics.

[charred hornet]

i am sure it might be

[signal bramble]

I’m still leveling the sharpshooter so I don’t have all the unlocks yet.

Right now I’m using the starter type semi auto lasgun and the shovel.

[charred hornet]

not like they can make space marines a sub class so its Arbites or a Hot gunner class

[signal bramble]

I should grab a Lucius lasgun with the shovel so I can have the true korps experience.

[charred hornet]

and want to die ...

it makes you want to

😄

only finally found some nicish ones now that i can get high 300-400 gear

still think the Acctran recon is probably the best over all

[signal bramble]

The korps don’t want to die that badly. It’s just they won’t hesitate to sacrifice themselves if it will accomplish an objective. If dying would mean the enemy could win that’s heresy.

[charred hornet]

hmm

still the gun is horrid imo until you get a roll with over 70 stability

[signal bramble]

But affixed bayonet.

Fatshark gib bayonets.

[charred hornet]

you cant charge with it really

[signal bramble]

Well not with that attitude.

[charred hornet]

yeah the bullets hitting and stun locking you as well

maybe we will get a death korp option

lets us charge without interrupt

[signal bramble]

There really needs to be more stun/resists in general. Things that let you sprint, zealot charge, and carry things without being slowed/interrupted/knocked back/dropping things.

I don’t know why it’s not baseline for that ability but I digress.

@charred hornet My dream sharpshooter weapon is honestly a melta gun.

Though it would be fitting for lore if the zealot gets it to.

[charred hornet]

i think its supposed to be the zealot only when it comes out

btw this thing is stupid

[arctic talon]

Zealot charge gets canceled by enough shots

[signal bramble]

I know. I’m saying it shouldn’t. But I digressed because I was getting off the lore topic.

[arctic talon]

Oh

Fair enough

[crisp heath]

best melee wepon in the game

[formal belfry]

Nork deddog is based

one of, if not the best ogryns to exist

[storm jungle]

Yeah I wonder why

probably because theres like 2 named ogryn characters with a model

[formal belfry]

Its because he could count to 4, obviously

[storm jungle]

[signal bramble]

I had an Ogryn named Nork in my group last night with the slab shield. He aggro’d the DH, busted out his shield and took no damage.

What a Chad.

[elfin cradle]

who or what defeated the Enslavers

[formal belfry]

Yeah, if you have the slab shield and just hold your ground, doing the special stance thingy you take no damage and no stamina loss at all from the DH

[rustic spruce]

i believe enslavers just didn't have as many psykers to feed on and thus a lot of them died out

a few of em still show up from time to time

[signal bramble]

They weren’t defeated. They’re just native to the warp.

When they manifest in the material realm they’re pretty vulnerable to traditional gunfire.

[elfin cradle]

it is said they defeated the Old ones

then how did the Eldar survive

[signal bramble]

They didn’t defeat the old ones overall. That was the necrons and ctan.

As for how the Eldar survived? The Eldar are very powerful psychically and presumably they couldn’t overwhelm them.

[atomic pelican]

The eldar and orkz assbeat the necrons after the old ones died

Thus why they went into sleepy time

[elfin cradle]

enslaver plague led to downfall of old ones while old ones were fighting necrons I believe

[atomic pelican]

It helps that Cegorach trolled the ctan into killing eachother

[rustic spruce]

it also helps that the eldar are notoriously hard to find

[signal bramble]

the old ones were beaten back by the ctan and necrons. Sounds like the enslavers finished them off according to that.

You should look up the war in heaven as well.

It’s always possible the old ones were fighting multiple wars after all. They had a lot of species that hated them.

[crisp heath]

I don’t think this is true

[sinful crater]

plus with stuff that old we don't have all the info...

[atomic pelican]

The war in heaven uh

Isnt very good writing overall

Its also p much scattered throughout various faction books

Its p much the Heresy but with like 1% of the information

And without any actual books of its own

It sits in a state of occasionally being retconned or changed depending on how a Aeldari or Necron writer is feeling that day

[sinful crater]

that the trouble with element of lore that soo far... either it's a rumour or we have barely anything

[atomic pelican]

Occasionally some necron writer will introduce the poopenfarten engine which could ezpz solo all the other factions(he will make up some excuse as to why this plot device isnt used)

[sinful crater]

plus each writer can decide to write something, it's not like wh40k is written by only one person

[normal stream]

Yeah the issue is that a lot of it comes from accumulated codexes (codices)

[sinful crater]

it's hard to have a whole sight of any event actually exept if you purchase every book or codexes... i doubt all writer know what was added i wonder how GW keep everything under control must be a mess.

and i'm curious to know what is the freedom of fatshark about adding new content of the lore, like weapon used by race or class that are not means to use them...

because the lore around ogryn for the weapon they can use are super limited... adding new gun gonna be hard if they are not allowed some freedom.

[normal stream]

There was a period in the 90s to early 2000s I had every dex and BL 40k book published

Then real life caught up with me when the 30k and pure marketing books came out

[sinful crater]

yeah it's hard to follow all... like i wonder how the spaces wolves did survive the month of shame and the crusade, i means fenris was sieged to the point that space wolves did loose tons of battleship and space marines... i have the feeling it's hard to follow and know what is what at this point.

and the true question is do they really arrive to follow what the writer do... i means i don't think it exist anywhere a full chronologie of the fact that was added to the lore.

[arctic talon]

55 fucking books

[normal stream]

I think the harder part was when they started publishing books that were meant to sell mini's

the early HH books were good, pretty solid all around

but when you have a book that spends entire pages describing a space marine's wargear right after their new mini gets released..

yeah

lol

I make it a point to never buy books released after a faction gets new dexes or minis now

[brittle slate]

and there were supposed to be 8 or something

[elfin cradle]

sequelitis

who would even want to read it

[sinful crater]

and book are not the only source of lore...codexe and them new narrative arc too can lead to add more lore

0.0 i just did seen the new rule for angron...

[indigo parrot]

So how bad is the underhive and the sump? I been thinking about Darktide and wondering if we have to go deeper underneath the hive to root out the heresy?

[sinful crater]

the trouble is we don't know where is the source of the heresy

the vox point out at a group of the astra militarum that did come back from the frontier, but we don't know who they are nor where they are...

[true sentinel]

It feels like the hive at this point needs a military intervention.

Like some sisters of battle or something

Just burn the place with flamer

[sinful crater]

i want a sister as class soo badly :x i means darktide is purging heresy.... and sister are good at this!

[indigo parrot]

I was told the lower the hive, the worse it get. I want to see how worse it can get. The rooting out heresy is just an excuse.

[sinful crater]

i can understand this

[true sentinel]

I just think since zealot already exists sister would be very similar.

I can only think that Sister would be a way to add heavy bolters and melta guns. Like a power armoured slow character? Idk how they plan on expanding things

In their original voices release to me it seemed like every archetype had 3 classes. But maybe they changed it or I read it wrong

[sinful crater]

repentia yes, not sister in general.... between hospitalier, dominion, zephyrine, cannonesse

[true sentinel]

Hmm, you’re right about a hositalier and dominion

Geez, imagine they give electro whip lol

[sinful crater]

hospitalier will make a loooooot of sense.

they generally wear a lighter version of the powerarmor and can offer buff and protection against corruption

[celest dome]

Those were the personalities

[celest dome]

Just to say, Melta were already leaked, as for Heavy Bolter, unless they give the SoB power armour it's unlikely to feature, while the Ogryn Gun Lugger can have Heavy Bolter

[sinful crater]

honestly heavy bolter don't make sense... i means the heavy stubber is already shreading horde... a heavy bolter will annihilate everything crusher included...

[mystic geyser]

Satisfying.

[vital kernel]

heavy bolter has rather limited ammo, probably long reload etc

[sinful crater]

generally you can have a ammo band link to a backpack full of ammo then.... and even if you are "limited" to ammo, it will still be far more than a hundred bullet of the bolter and worst if i'm not wrong heavy bolter have bigger caliber... higher fire rate

no heavy bolter is simply too powerfull for human or even ogryn, that why they are used on tripod or in turret mode in astra militarum.

[mystic geyser]

It's not unheard of for human portable heavy bolters. A specialist veteran could do it. But ogryn would make more sense.

[celest dome]

Less ammo, more switching and reload times

Same way Bolter and Autogun both work fhr the regular human

[sinful crater]

trying to make something play by arranging a gameplay balance that ignore what is the weapon in the lore will not work here... heavy bolter are monster that can annihilate large number of enemy...
and honestly having this sort of thing in a horde game... even for the ogryn he will be slowed and will not be able to move while shooting it...

[barren tapir]

Heavy bolters are know to be used by gun luggers ogryns, and we also have some humans that use them alone

[celest dome]

Just named character though, like Starker or something

Who is from Catachan

[barren tapir]

Yes, but that show that heavy bolters are not out of the question like Beldhan said

[celest dome]

I mean, I was for the Heavy Bolter, Beldham wasn't

no heavy bolter is simply too powerfull for human or even ogryn, that why they are used on tripod or in turret mode in astra militarum.
trying to make something play by arranging a gameplay balance that ignore what is the weapon in the lore will not work here... heavy bolter are monster that can annihilate large number of enemy...
and honestly having this sort of thing in a horde game... even for the ogryn he will be slowed and will not be able to move while shooting it...

[spark relic]

“Not able to move while shooting it”
Ok? Not like that would be a problem when you'd be shredding anything that comes close

His arguments weren't particularly thought out, it seems

[celest dome]

Still it would be overkill for the Vet/Zealot, heavy Bolter for Ogryn would be fitting

[spark relic]

Yeah, it'd have to be an ogryn weapon for sure

[barren tapir]

Agree

[lilac wave]

I mean, I think you're sort of underestimating the insane strength and mass of ogryn. If a space marine can handle a heavy bolter by himself an ogryn could shoot one in each hand.

[celest dome]

I don't think they would make sense

As they would be unwieldy

[spark relic]

The ogryn has the heavy stubber which is very unwieldy

[celest dome]

Yes, but 2h

[spark relic]

I don't think that would be a problem

[celest dome]

Not one in each hand

[dapper loom]

more like the ogryn chucks one away when it runs out of ammo, because he don't have 4 hands to reload them both at the same time
and if he did, well, he wouldn't be in the astra militarum, eh?

[dapper loom]

let's be fair, it is a twin-linked heavy stubber, so double the dakka

[lilac wave]

Oh not even remotely, ogryn aren't really known for their great aim in the first place. No one would give them a pair of heavy weapons to waste more of the most valuable amunition in the imperium. Still, they'd be able to handle it. Compared to Ogryn even space marines are like children when it comes to strength, there really isn't any reason why they shouldn't be able to control the recoil of a 50 cal machine gun.

[dapper loom]

didn't someone use TT rules and determine that an ogryn would beat a primaris marine 87% of the time or something if they got the first move? and 81% or something if they went second
big box 'o hurt gets chucked with enthusiasm indeed

crush like bug

[lilac wave]

Even so, I imagine the recoil of a heavy bolter would be more comparable to the stubber? They're jet propelled after all, the conventional powder charge is only ancillary.

Uhh, but on the tabletop? I guess it depends on the unit, a standard primaris intercessor isn't capable of killing an ogryn in one turn, at least not in melee. (Oh wait, they could on the charge, but it'd take a huge amount of luck)

[celest dome]

Sure, but recoil isn't all

[dapper loom]

recoil of bolters is kind of always being debated
though IMO anyone who says "space marine bolters would break the arm of a regular human if they shot it" is just being silly, since as you said, gyrojet tech means it doesn't need to have bone-breaking recoil

[celest dome]

THat was mostly old lore

Now they just are too heavy and unwieldy for normal human to reliably use it

[dapper loom]

well, Varl does pick one up and blow the brains out of a CSM in gaunt's ghosts, so they're not so unwieldly to be beyond using by a regular human

[lilac wave]

In the Space Marine RPG, the lore is that the machine spirits of astartes weapons literally refuse to be wielded by standard mortals. Even if they could handle the size of the weapon and so on, they weapons themselves are too proud to function properly in the hands of anyone by a space marine.

[barren tapir]

A weird way to say that they are gene locked lol

[dapper loom]

well that's contradicted by abnett in the above, so pick your poison

[celest dome]

Reliably, like picking one and and using it is possible, but having to spend a day aiming with it would be awful

[dapper loom]

oh I'm sure it would be

[lilac wave]

Not really gene locked, gene locked weapons are mentioned in the Fantasy Flight 40k rpgs, but that's not quite the issue with astartes weapons.

[rough condor]

I think more heavy weapons for Ogryn is a wonderful idea, give it all to me

Multi-laser, heavy bolter, heavy flamer

[lilac wave]

Ah, having found the passage it seems like the size and recoil are sort of the main problems, but the machine spirit being pissed off is a big deal.

Also I'd love to see guard veteran get the Hotshot Volley Gun used by tempestus scions.

[rough condor]

Absolutely, more hotshot the better

[twin seal]

Guardsmen have been known to use bolters, but they fill the role of heavy weapons. They aren't a staple weapon. They are heavy, the ammo is heavy, and they are costly to manufacture. As time goes on, they are less common among the guard. The only gene-locked weapons in the Imperium belong to the Custodes. I assume that Mechanicum or Inquisitors could have gene-locked weapons, but I haven't read of any.

[celest dome]

Guardsmen use Boltpistol, bolter and Heavy Bolter

[twin seal]

Ogryn strength compared to Astartes strength is 1:2, but only when armor is removed. Calling them children compared to an Ogryn isn't fair.

[celest dome]

The 2nd is what we already have

[twin seal]

Bolt pistols are only common among commissars. I'm only speaking about standard bolters.

I haven't read of an instance with guardsmen and storm bolters or heavy bolters. I've only ever seen them in minis.

[celest dome]

Sergeant can have them iirc

[spark relic]

Sergeants can have bolt pistols and guard sized bolters but it is quite rare

[twin seal]

It's just hard because Forge World lore and Games Workshop lore conflicts a lot

[celest dome]

For Heavy Bolter, there is just Harker who can use it normally

Other wise it's a weapon team formation

[barren tapir]

Not only one... Bragg was also capable to use one alone

Bolter can be issued to officers yes

[twin seal]

I think it's fair to say that these instances are plot driven and should not be seen as normal.

[spark relic]

But didn't Bragg use a heavy stubber?

[barren tapir]

The most recent example is the lord castellan from cadia

[celest dome]

Both

[barren tapir]

Yes, but he was also capable to use heavy bolter, heavy stubber was just his main weapon

[celest dome]

Ok, but then we can say anything we want and you can deny it

[barren tapir]

They are stated to be exceptional indeed, this doesn't mean we don't have example that show it is possible

[celest dome]

Like taking WW2, you had people who used heavy/emplacement weapons, but it wasn't widespread

[barren tapir]

Unless it is for bolter being issued to officers, that is way more common

[twin seal]

No, that is not what I meant. There are trillions of guardsmen and less than a handful of accounts of this occurring. It isn't the norm, but it's possible.

Taking my words to the extreme lol

[spark relic]

Let's also keep in mind that Harker is ridiculously large and strong for an unaugmented human, so is Bragg

So they can do this because they have muscles and nothing else, it's not something your average conscript could do

[barren tapir]

TBF catachans are stated to be both taller and stronger than normal humans, harken is special among them not because he can use an heavy bolter alone, but because he can use it and still be fast and stealthy

[spark relic]

Yeah, the Catachans are all built like Arnold from the Predator movie

[mystic geyser]

There are a bunch of Necromunda ganger models who handle heavy bolters too.

[spark relic]

The Necromundans have their own lighter designs

[barren tapir]

Goliaths i bet

Since goliaths are stated to be similar to ogryns

[mystic geyser]

Nah regular humans too

[spark relic]

Orlocks have smaller heavy bolter designs as well

[mystic geyser]

But absolutely lighter patterns

[spark relic]

Orlock heavy bolter

[barren tapir]

Vat-birthed, a Goliath can be freakishly huge, larger than even a Space Marine, other than their lack of speed

[spark relic]

They also don't live for very long

[barren tapir]

Ah, Orlock, the other heavy weight house

[barren tapir]

Yup, very short lifetime

[spark relic]

Orlock is the forge house

[barren tapir]

Mining house

[spark relic]

They produce all the iron for the hive

[barren tapir]

Yes, they mine it

The one that work in the forges are the goliath

Besides their mining, House Orlock also oversees Wild Snake alcohol distilleries.

[lilac wave]

Guess it's worth noting, from the table top perspective at least, the two guardsmen we see wielding heavy weapons alone both have Str 4, which is in the same class as astartes. Ironically, the sisters of battle who wield heavy bolter/flamers and so on alone still only have Str 3, the human standard, even in power armor. Obviously power armor would making wielding a heavy weapon a lot easier, but I wouldn't rule out the pattern of heavy bolted wielded by the Sororitas is lighter than both the crew served pattern seen toted around by the likes of Harker and Bragg, and the Astartes pattern.

[daring cove]

Hive goons in Necromunda can use a Heavy Bolter

Though I guess Goliath are another Bragg situation

[undone zodiac]

Imagine if someone made grey knight army consisting 80% of servitors

[lilac wave]

80% By models or 80% by points?

[lilac wave]

I guess you could run a vanguard detachment in a 500 point game. Max out on 6 squads of servitors and slap multimeltas on half 9f them. That's 300 points for 24 models and 12 multimeltas. Finish it off with an 80 point techmarine to babysit your servitors and 5 man strike squad for 110 points.

There are potentially some games you could win with that.

[undone zodiac]

Models

80% of your army purely servitors

"Strikeforce ran out, servitors will do"

[lilac wave]

Well there ya go, I don't think servitor spam is particularly good, but even at a 4+ 24 melta shots for 300 points is sort of insane.

[sinful crater]

let's be fair any melta shot is hitting hard like a truck

[chrome dragon]

Mfw Konrad Curze is the weakest Primarch because he got killed by one mortal assassin

[lilac wave]

He mostly killed himself though, trying to prove a point or something.

[urban spire]

forget that question

not sure this server is ready for that kind of conversation

[chrome dragon]

Thats just him being stupid, even then he did end up being killed by a mortal at the end of the day regardless of intent

[celest dome]

Now I want to know what it was

[urban spire]

actually you know what, i had a quick shower, thought about it, there's mods here with pronouns in bio and shit, i think we can have a conversation without things breaking down

my original question was about how clan escher feels about trans women, but shower thoughts struck and now i'm wondering if there's a good reason a space marine can't be a trans woman

are there any chapters that would allow enough individual expression to allow that?

like black templars probably not, no, but space wolves? salamanders maybe?

[chrome dragon]

The primarchs were all men so the space marines have to be men as well

The emperor didnt make a female primarch but if he did there would he female space marines

[mystic geyser]

I can't imagine there's much time on your space nazi death monks to explore femininity.

[urban spire]

some chapters are less awful

[timid ferry]

Personally, I see no reason. Lore bends to plot (i.e. whatever the writer wants). If said trans woman has already transitioned, that might mess with the implants but idk.

[chrome dragon]

@urban spire Look the closest thing are Callidus assassins

[timid ferry]

But as captyn bob said, the space nazi monks aren’t exactly the best vehicle to explore these sorts of themes with

[chrome dragon]

They can be the other sex for two hours

[celest dome]

For Esher, i think they would be treated as a woman, I think most gang would treat them according to their appearing gender, but Esher men have genetic defects iirc

[chrome dragon]

They are mostly women

But there a few men in there as well

[mystic geyser]

Escher I can't imagine caring that much, but I doubt it's something that's ever been explored

[celest dome]

As for SM, it never really explained, on what make men possible but not women

[urban spire]

escher culturally disdains men though don't they? even ones from other clans, i thought

[chrome dragon]

Its because the Primarchs are all male

[celest dome]

And still, all women have dads

[chrome dragon]

Like its not explicity stated

But they kind of become a mini primarch

[celest dome]

Not that I know of, I know they work alongside them

[urban spire]

ah ok then

anyway it's pretty clear by this point that the emperor was kind of a dickhead, sorry to all the devout worshipers in chat

[mystic geyser]

The dickhead the galaxy needed...

😂

[urban spire]

he was maybe a touch too dogmatic

ironically, for a militant anti-theist

[celest dome]

Found something

The Escher view this with haughty satisfaction and as a result their leaders suspend their usual dismissive arrogance of men when dealing with House Orlock, but this does not stop them seeing the males of the House as disadvantaged and piteous.
So they do disdain males somewhat, and they hate Orlock

[timid ferry]

Furthermore, I wouldn’t be surprised if the imperial creed was anti-trans. Deviation from the norm is heavily frowned upon and the Ecclesiarchy parodies the worst aspects of certain irl religions

[celest dome]

We do know the Admech doesn't care

And apparently the Adepta Sororitas accept Trans

So I would say no

[timid ferry]

Source on the Sororitas?

[urban spire]

eldar wailing banshees can be trans, i know that

anyway trans people might be completely beneath the care of the ecclesiarchy, a lot of things that would be points of turbulence for modern religions go ignored by the ministorum just because they have actual xenos to be xenophobic about instead

[celest dome]

@barren tapir Do you remember who was talking about the Trans Sister of Battles ?

[urban spire]

and you know, mutants and chaos and stuff

[mystic geyser]

Yeah bigger fish to fry

Small stuff would vary from planet to planet. But is unlikely to be pleasant, given the setting.

[final solar]

More about efficiency

[urban spire]

he practiced a kind of eugenicist nepotism which i would say definitely turned out not to be very efficient

seeing as how it killed him

[final solar]

I blame that on Emps being a turbo neckbeard

[urban spire]

a lot of issues could have been resolved if the emperor was just a better dad

[celest dome]

The Emperor was a net loss for Humanity

[barren tapir]

Nope, i remember about trans necrons though

But i might see if i can find something

[final solar]

Should we even project human gender issues onto aliens? Do necrons even care for the concept of gender?

[urban spire]

"trans sisters of battle" is kind of a rough google lol

[final solar]

A majority of them aren’t even sentient

And those that are suffer from space dementia

[urban spire]

it's scifi, we explore human issues through the lens of fiction, it's ALL human issues projected onto aliens

[barren tapir]

Ok, found something, there seems to be an minor example of a trans sister, trying to find more

[shadow plover]

and it wasn't some non sentient thrall but a dynasty matriarch

[solemn pivot]

Who is smack talking y
The GE

[final solar]

To be fair, 40k lore just started as an excuse to give narrative to fighting with toy soldiers

[urban spire]

[final solar]

The on-set didn’t provide much depth

[solemn pivot]

The age of strife preceded his rule, and it was t pretty

[final solar]

It’s come a long way though

[urban spire]

40k writing was always political, even when it was just an excuse plot

[solemn pivot]

Imagine the whole world was biowares Anthem

[timid ferry]

Specifically a criticism of right wing politics. It takes at least part of its DNA from 2000 AD

[solemn pivot]

It isn’t political so much as it draws from human history for inspiration

[urban spire]

in development hell for a decade, rushed out at the last minute and then killed before it could grow into anything?

[solemn pivot]

The atheist “science only” great crusade wasn’t a condemnation of liberalism?

[urban spire]

i wouldn't draw any kind of hard boundary between historical politics and just politics

[timid ferry]

I guess you could also consider it a criticism of religion. Considering how bad things are in the imperium

[solemn pivot]

The irony being the emperor was anti religion

[final solar]

It’s poetic irony

While also serving as an example of «those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it» but on a biblical scale

No pun intended

[solemn pivot]

40k is a dystopia and while you can infer things from past or modern history and politics we also don’t live with the threat of our population being subverted by evil psychic gods or eaten by aliens

[urban spire]

that's true, but the threat of selfish politicians isn't going anywhere

[final solar]

Selfishness vs extinction

[solemn pivot]

When people make the claim the imperium is awful … duh look at the universe they live in

[final solar]

One kind of outweighs the other from a utilitarian perspective

[timid ferry]

And there’s the rub that undermines the satire argument. Things are bad in the imperium as much because of outside forces as because internal forces

[solemn pivot]

Yah

[urban spire]

well now hold on, the imperium isn't just awful because of the universe it's in, it's also awful because awful people have had the reins for the last ten thousand years

[solemn pivot]

True to both those things

[final solar]

It’s funny, this reminds me of the backlash against the Tau being introduced

[urban spire]

poor tau

[solemn pivot]

It might have been diff if GE could have built his web way portals and if he hadn’t been blind to the seduction of the astartes

[final solar]

The Tau really brings the reality of 40k into perspective

[urban spire]

i don't think people should have been so upset about them, there being one shining bright spot in the galaxy only for it to be mercilessly stomped out by the imperium is pretty on brand

[final solar]

Tbh it’s all on Erebus

And Magnus of course

[solemn pivot]

Tau aren’t so great either though … we are kind and benevolent … and you will be to … or else

[celest dome]

Nah, the Imperium was already quite awefull before Erebus did his things

[final solar]

That grimdark implication was added in post

Because of said backlash

[timid ferry]

Don’t get me started. GW has been actively working to undermine the noble bright themes they introduced with the Tau. Specifically the fourth sphere expansion killing their psychic client races after things went full event horizon.

[solemn pivot]

Ahhh I didn’t know that

[urban spire]

also the tau as a contrast makes the empire stand out more

imperium*

[final solar]

At first the Tau served as a contrast to 40k as a whole

They’re essentially a Star Trek villain faction

But

Placed into 40k they’re the objective good guys

[urban spire]

idk man the word "objective" is bearing a pretty big load there

[final solar]

Ironically, a xenos faction is subsuming the role that humans usually play in most sci-fi settings featuring aliens

[solemn pivot]

The necrons to me represent an earlier form of the imperium . They became awful to deal with the awful things assaulting them

[final solar]

On paper then, from an ethical pov

[urban spire]

the tau as an imperialist force is interesting too though

[final solar]

The necrontyr were doomed from the start

[urban spire]

even if i think the ethereal mind control thing is a bit heavy handed

most nations of earth did imperialism just fine without mind control afaik

idk i'm not an expert, maybe the crown jewels got some powers

[final solar]

They’re essentially the anthropomorphization of the phrase «Rage, rage against the dying of the light»

And to be fair, the Old Ones were being dicks

Could’ve just given them space chemo

But no

[urban spire]

the necrontyr were kind of like very early humanity i think? except their neighbors were the old ones, which made them pretty bitter

[final solar]

Well, then there’s the lifespan of 30 years due to constant radiation induced cancer

[urban spire]

30 years, 60 years, not that big a difference when your point of comparison is "as long as they feel like living"

[final solar]

Twice-Dead King: Ruin paints a good picture of necrontyr society

They were dreary as a whole

The society built to upheld the only things that could endure past ones lifespan

Law and tradition, continuing in perpetuity

[final solar]

Could you rephrase that? Not sure i follow

[urban spire]

oh sorry

[final solar]

It’s been a long hospital shift lol

[urban spire]

necrontyr lived for about 30 years, we live for like 60-90, averages depending on where you live, the difference isn't that big between our lives and necrontyr lives when you compare us to the old ones however

[final solar]

Ironically, treating cancer

[urban spire]

that's rough, thank you for your service

[final solar]

Well true, but we don’t start our day checking on our tumor growth while living in an ossuary

Necrontyr were essentially only kept alive as a race by the power of plot

Which then in-universe translates wonderfully into them persevering out of spite

[urban spire]

i turned 31 this year, in the last two years i have gained a remarkable interest in checking for interesting new growths, but i see what you mean

[final solar]

I feel you brother

[insert mechanicus intro here]

[urban spire]

i aint a brother anymore

speaking of mechanicus

https://youtu.be/5PUzaDawTwk

[final solar]

God i wish we had more Ad Mech characters

[urban spire]

same

[final solar]

Dark Mechanicum trilogy when?

[urban spire]

is that actually planned or just wishful thinking?

[final solar]

Dark Mechanicum/Iron Warriors book

Please GW

I’ll buy every primaris kit

I swear

[signal bramble]

Mommy Hadron though.

[barren tapir]

There are quite a lot of Ad. Mech. chars, from one that became a ghost in the machines (survived in digital form) to others that have tried to become machines

[signal bramble]

I am really hoping for an Admech adept of some kind.

As a playable character.

[urban spire]

hard same

[final solar]

https://tenor.com/view/vorzek-vorzneck-oglg-og-lol-gang-gif-24901093

Scaevola > Hadron

Just saying

[timid ferry]

I love Hadron’s snark.

[final solar]

Unlikely from a lore perspective, but god do i want it

[celest dome]

Kephri is great too

[final solar]

True, she cares

[urban spire]

nah the dark heresy rpg is even lower power level than darktide and they managed to include an admech class

[final solar]

But Scaevola has the best banter

[urban spire]

there's no reason we couldn't have a disgraced enginseer or something

[final solar]

Yes, but we’re penal legion essentially

[celest dome]

It's not that unlikely since it's going to be dependent on the writer and the devs. And there are ways to do it

[barren tapir]

Tech adept is not out of the question if we look at not super old lore, but we have another option which would fit perfectly for a Vet class

[final solar]

Skitarii?

[barren tapir]

Nope

[timid ferry]

Only if we get the axe

[urban spire]

we're not even penal legion, the only reason we got to do anything is because of inquisitorial intervention

[barren tapir]

Well, i would love a skitarii, but they are higher rank than adepts

[celest dome]

Tech Thrall ?

[barren tapir]

Nope

[timid ferry]

Servitor class 🧌

[final solar]

Right, i keep forgetting the game is actually out

[celest dome]

Enginseer ?

[barren tapir]

It is something that i discovered recently

[celest dome]

30k or 40k ? Or both

[barren tapir]

Hell no, that is a fully ordained tech priest lol

40K

Sabbat worlds crusade to be precise

[urban spire]

an enginseer is a tech priest attached to the astra militarum, they take care of the tanks and stuff, it's regarded as a dead end job in the mechanicus

[final solar]

Unlikely as they are put in stasis

[urban spire]

no opportunity for advancement

[barren tapir]

Fine, i will share it

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Transmachina_Ocula

[celest dome]

They still don't have any Admech weapon, upgrade or anything

[barren tapir]

It check all boxes

[celest dome]

Eh not really

[barren tapir]

At least for how we can theorize about classes

[celest dome]

It's a Veteran class if you want to make it

[barren tapir]

It isn't Ad. Mech. yes, but it is a good option for vet class

[urban spire]

anything high tech is related to the mechanicus

[barren tapir]

Yes, i was mentioning it as vet class

[celest dome]

Not much to build up from it though

[urban spire]

plasma guns are VERY admech

[celest dome]

Plasma guns are already in game

[urban spire]

yep

that's the point i was making

[final solar]

What about a skitarii under the supervision of hadron?

[timid ferry]

Arco-flagellants

[barren tapir]

Eh, just found this Transmachina Ocula recently, didn't had much time to expand on it

[urban spire]

arco-flagellants are way too high up in power level

[celest dome]

But they aren't really just Admech, as the IG use it a lot too

[barren tapir]

Would be amazing, but then why we were on the prison ship?

[urban spire]

that's true, until relatively recently the admech didn't actually have a lot of gear and weapons unique to them

not until they got their own army in the tabletop

[celest dome]

Tech Adept as Archetype, class branching toward Skitarii, Reclaimator and other

[barren tapir]

But i would love a char that still has the same intro, but is way more tech oriented than all others and get put under Hadron supervision instead of Zola or Morrow

[final solar]

Hnng

[urban spire]

skitarii in the lore used to be mostly either servitors or basically enhanced guardsmen, with each skitarii regiment being highly customized by their magos

[final solar]

I just want a skitarii fps/immersive sim of any kind

[celest dome]

Depend in the Forge World

[barren tapir]

They are still that btw, it all depend on the forge world/magus that create them

[barren tapir]

Same mate, same

[celest dome]

Certain are servitor like other have high independence of though

[urban spire]

they have a more standardized tabletop presence now though

[barren tapir]

Yup, like the skitarii in Mechanicus the game, there seems they are quite free willed

[urban spire]

with unique ranks, functions, weapons, stuff like that

[final solar]

You got good examples of that too in Day of Ascencion

[urban spire]

skitarii are highly specialized for combat, but these days they also mostly have their higher brain functions intact

mostly

their entire sensory experience is pretty fucked up though from what i remember

[final solar]

it really boils down to their rank as well as the tech priest they're serving under

Lorehammer has an episode on them

Iirc higher cogntive function is maintained when they hold a position of responsibility

[barren tapir]

I think that we can all agree on one thing though... Ad. Mech. is an untapped platinum mine, and if FS manage to be the first to implement something from it in first person game they would attract lot of people and money, even bending a bit the main concept of DT would be worthy imo

[final solar]

But their techpriest still holds a tether/leash and can override their cognitive function

Though some things can override this, like genestealer cults

[final solar]

On a similar note, i hope the Devs of mechanicus end up making a sequel

[barren tapir]

It had a massive success so i wouldn't see why they shouldn't

But now it is a forge world management system with warfare and trade and all that stuff

And you will have to found a new forge world

[urban spire]

the devs are working on ixion right now so i wouldn't count on a sequel any time soon

ixion just released and apparently it needs a lot of work

[final solar]

Just take my money

[barren tapir]

I too would love to throw my money on something like that

[gusty sequoia]

why some space marine unit kill everyone how saw them

[urban spire]

bad writing

[plush mason]

if it was the grey knights its because "no one can know we exist! reeeeeeeee"

[final solar]

Also due to the very knowledge of chaos and exposure to psykers without proper conditioning (read: indoctrination) is enough of a foothold for chaos to manifest over time.

[plush mason]

knowing the grey knights exist |= knowing chaos exists

also the grey knights only show up at places falling or fallen to chaos already so that is a moot point

[storm jungle]

Oh man

we gotta keep chaos a secret oh no

Meanwhile chaos corruption happens in almost every imperial world anyway

[plush mason]

yup

[storm jungle]

Also like

the new Warzone book had Ordo Malleus mindwipe hundreds of Skitarii, Marines and Sororitas while killing hundreds of guardsman for witnessing a massive chaos invasion

BUT LIKE

THESE GUYS ARE GONNA FIGHT CHAOS AGAIN NEXT WEEK

[normal stream]

.. Oh yes it does.

[normal stream]

Unless we're talking Armageddon and war of shame

[plush mason]

ye

but afaik that war for armageddon was removed from official history

[barren tapir]

Yup

Third war of armageddon? Dunno what you are talking about, only two wars were fought there and always against orks

[plush mason]

yup

[storm jungle]

Yeah with Armageddon it makes sense

its a planetary population

with the Warzone Charadon one its an entire sector lmao

[spark relic]

Armageddon was very controversial