40k-lore-chat

[arctic talon]

A bunch of nations that disagree with each other

All dragged together

[ruby sparrow]

and mars can do its own thing because if you get rid of mars you get rid of all your tech support

[arctic talon]

The only reason the admech tries to look unified

[sullen dome]

The imperium has no universal legal system outside the bare basics

[arctic talon]

Is because they would get torn apart politically

If they didn’t present as a unified organization

When in reality enginseer 223 and enginseer 331 both want to blow each other’s head off because one insulted the other

[ruby sparrow]

so basically 40k's imperium is just as fucky in terms of political stability, if not less so, than the orks, when it comes to behind the scenes

[sullen dome]

Funnily enough one of the most organized and unified organizations in the imperium is the guard

[arctic talon]

Yeah

The imperial guard is pretty sound logistically lol

[ruby sparrow]

because it has to be

[sullen dome]

Remind me what the navy is called again

That to

[arctic talon]

I mean so is the admech

Imperial navy

Navis Imperialis or some shit

[sullen dome]

Doesn’t it have a fancy name?

[ruby sparrow]

I mean admech has to be organized because theyre exceptionally fucking busy

[arctic talon]

I’ll check my book lol

[sullen dome]

I was gonna say Astra militarum but that’s the guard isn’t it

[ruby sparrow]

and have to keep up an IT monopoly

thats the guard

Also guardsmen have Drip

like fuck cadian and krieg drip

weve got a WIDE assortment of drip

[arctic talon]

Aeronautica imperialis is the navy stuff that deals with in atmosphere stuff

And

[ruby sparrow]

is it just called the navy

[arctic talon]

It’s the Navis imperialis lol

Aka English with lis

Stuck on

[ruby sparrow]

its like "Biggus Dickus" tier shit

[arctic talon]

Yeah

But it sounds cool

[ruby sparrow]

or "Sussus amogus"

[sullen dome]

Helpful

[arctic talon]

Lmfao the custodes under control of the Adeptus terra

[sullen dome]

Essentially the inquisition answers only to itself and anyone with more power and influence than them at a given time(which is almost never)

[rustic spruce]

How would you feel if asmodai was in your house right now

[ruby sparrow]

i feel like showing that to a custodes will result in your remaining lifespan being measured in picoseconds

[storm jungle]

That board is terrible and inaccurate lmao

[ruby sparrow]

to be fair that could be "In theory"

[arctic talon]

Officio assasinorum and custodes should be way more separate

[sullen dome]

Is it really that bad?

[storm jungle]

^

Yes it is

[ruby sparrow]

Custodes just dont know what the fuck to do

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

Custodes can literally order anyone around

[arctic talon]

This is a prettt weird chart

[storm jungle]

inquisitors included

[storm jungle]

Its official too which is even more cringe

[ruby sparrow]

"I want to do thi" "Inquisitor thats fucking stupid"

[arctic talon]

It’s old

I’d assume lol

[storm jungle]

yeah it is

[sullen dome]

We need a fixed version of this

[storm jungle]

from like

6th ed

[arctic talon]

Yeah that makes sense lol

[storm jungle]

I got a lore-accurate chart for every Adepta in the Imperium, its pretty big tho so

[sullen dome]

Also Gman isn’t included

[arctic talon]

We’ve got more fleshed out lore on 3 of those things now

And also yeah Gman should be above the high lord

[sullen dome]

But he’s basically up there with the emperor

[storm jungle]

for example, anyone wanna see Admech's hierarchy

[arctic talon]

Oh god no

[sullen dome]

Oh god

[arctic talon]

It’s huge

I have it saved

[arctic talon]

But post it

[ruby sparrow]

I still like the mental image of custodes while theyre just stuck in the palace with minimal threats occasionally doing very stupid shit

[storm jungle]

*YEP

ENTIRELY lore accurate btw

[ruby sparrow]

ah yes

[arctic talon]

Admech is

[ruby sparrow]

arbitraril-

[arctic talon]

Very organized

And also all this shit makes sense from a lore perspective

[ruby sparrow]

you know what this is what happens when you let the IT nerd cult make a chain of command

its entirely in character

actually no, theres not defined millions of clauses for overrides on command in specific situations

[arctic talon]

Also it’s slightly out of date

Since it’s missing the skitarii marshal

But close enough

And the pteraxii

[storm jungle]

yeah was made like 3 years ago with a pal of mine

[arctic talon]

It’s still really good

Tbh

[storm jungle]

Yeee

surprisingly helpful

[arctic talon]

And it’s beautiful

Because it really captures the absolute

[ruby sparrow]

"actualyl the janitor can superceed the highest commander if its a leap year"

[arctic talon]

Chaos of imperial Beuracracy

[sullen dome]

The might be better

I haven’t looked closely at it

[ruby sparrow]

Beureaucraghetti

[storm jungle]

Admech is the most complex one, stuff like the Arbites is a bit more simpler

[ruby sparrow]

Meanwhile the orks have the most efficient chain of command

[rustic spruce]

Where’s the chaos god of bureaucracy

[ruby sparrow]

"if you think you're the better boss just krump the one we have"

[mystic fern]

just wondering, do all gen 4 gene stealer have those klingon forhead?

[storm jungle]

All stealers do yeah

[ruby sparrow]

like

the ork political system is stupidly simple, but its not stupid. because it works

[sullen dome]

Tzeentch

[mystic fern]

then wouldn't it be easy to vet them out? like with some checkpoint, imagine it wouldn't be hard to do in such totalitarium society

[ruby sparrow]

"If you think the boss is shit just kill him"

[storm jungle]

They dont use checkpoints, or at best got people that are in on it

[arctic talon]

It is but the imperium doesn’t have time seomtimes

[storm jungle]

A genestealer cult's reach can be incredibly far

[arctic talon]

And when they realize sometimes it’s too late

[ruby sparrow]

also central government can only fuck with things at a certain distance

[arctic talon]

Especially since the cultists don’t always have to be first, second or third generation

They can just be normal humans

[ruby sparrow]

not to mention tyrranids have a funny way of just

shutting off warp travel

[arctic talon]

Brought under the sway of the cult

[ruby sparrow]

if its too late, no help is coming

[rustic spruce]

Is becoming a freebootah a genetic thing like being an oddboy

[storm jungle]

Yeah if theres one thing GSC cults do better than chaos cults its secrecy and long-term planning

[ruby sparrow]

that or speedrunning certain high priority targets

[storm jungle]

in a few generations they can take over entire planets

[sullen dome]

By the time the order to vet the population gets down, a significant amount of the people doing the vetting could be genes stealers

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Unless it’s already a practice before hand

[ruby sparrow]

assuming the planetary governors arent genestealers

[sullen dome]

Especially if it’s localized

[ruby sparrow]

or worse

assuming they havent already got to a critical point

which results in le funny tyranids ddossing the warp

[sullen dome]

When thinking about how to combat a gene stealer infestation it’s best to assume literally everyone is a gene stealer

[storm jungle]

more or less yeah lmao

[ruby sparrow]

if they have more arms than usual or look a bit off

[storm jungle]

GSC are a lot worse since they infect on a genetic level

[ruby sparrow]

shoot

[storm jungle]

its not like chaos where its super obvious

and the moment they are discovered they go rambo

[arctic talon]

More arms isn’t even too big of an issue

[ruby sparrow]

better exterminatus than sorry

[arctic talon]

Is the thing

[mystic fern]

guess that's when inquisitor purge the entire planet?

[arctic talon]

People usually think it’s just a mutant

[ruby sparrow]

yeah and if its a mutant

you should shoot it

[storm jungle]

Its usually too late by that point

as the hive fleet arrives

[arctic talon]

Not everyone has a gun tbf

[ruby sparrow]

or yeet a rock at it

or yeet a ration at it

or punch it

by the emperor, square up you four armed bitch

[mystic fern]

do gen 2/3 gene stealer normally gets eaten afterward too?

[storm jungle]

all the cult members do

unless they manage to get off-world

to spread the infection elsewhere

[sullen dome]

Everything gets eaten after an invasion

[arctic talon]

^

[ruby sparrow]

in which case they fuck up another planet

which means

[arctic talon]

The hive fleet lets the cultists run usually

[sullen dome]

Outside of like maybe the highest level entities

[arctic talon]

If they don’t stay

[ruby sparrow]

exterminootus

[sullen dome]

Like top tier and high as you can get

And even then they may still be

They can jsut be reformed soon after when needed

Their bodies become biomass, and their minds go into the hive

[ruby sparrow]

the solution to genestealer cults is simple. genocide. or mass armed population but that has its own problems

[rustic spruce]

Name your top 5 freebooters

[sullen dome]

Usually the only solution is prevention, and if that fails genocide

[ruby sparrow]

Jamz'mey, Carcl'sun, Squig-Mound, Da steeg, uhhh

[sullen dome]

A full blown infestation can’t really be reversed without eradicating the entire population, and by that time the hive fleet is probably on its way

[ruby sparrow]

yes im just making a top gear joke

i wonder if its possible, theoreticly, to make an entire planet capable of warp travel, and high speed non warp travel

bowling ball class megaship

[sullen dome]

It’s been done

Titan and Armageddon

[ruby sparrow]

i want to yeet that at tyranid fleet

[sullen dome]

At least I think those were warp travel

I know Titan was hidden during the heresy and Armageddon was straight up fuckin moved

[storm jungle]

its not warp-travel

its just teleportation

Malcador was an Alpha-Plus psyker which means he can virtually do any magic-trick the writers can make up

[sullen dome]

Isn’t imperial teleportation warp travel tho

[storm jungle]

Kinda?

[sullen dome]

Ik it was admech fuckery with Ullanor/Armageddon

[ruby sparrow]

So, current possible ways the galaxy can go: Chaos does a lil trollin, tyrranids have a snacc, hm

Admec does something incredibly fucking stupid

[rustic spruce]

How fast are necron’s inertialess drives vs warp travel

[sullen dome]

Slow

[ruby sparrow]

Orkz decide to do a waaagh so big it has them start waaghing outside the galaxy

[mystic fern]

just curious, are the gene stealer in orc form?

[ruby sparrow]

the necrons alarm c-

probably not because they'd get krumped

[sullen dome]

Definitely not because if that happened we would get the new devourer

[ruby sparrow]

the original genestealer would probably get krumped

[sullen dome]

And if you know what that is

[arctic talon]

There are gene stealer orks

But they usually get krumped

[storm jungle]

Genestealers can infect virtually anything.

Ork genestealer cults dont get war mostly because orks notice faster when something is wrong with other orks.

[sullen dome]

You know it means the end times are upon us

[arctic talon]

For being unorky

[storm jungle]

Humans are just a better prime target

[ruby sparrow]

"oi these gits arent krumpy enough an are actually calm"

[storm jungle]

mostly because we fuck a lot

[arctic talon]

Their max speed is way faster then average warp travel

[rustic spruce]

Orks know when you ain’t being a proper ork

[sullen dome]

Shit really?

[arctic talon]

But max speed on an inertialess drive is a bad idea

[sullen dome]

I thought it was slower than light speed

[mystic fern]

guess there's some benefit of being stupid and simple lol, not ploting like the humans

[arctic talon]

Because you can’t fucking steer

[ruby sparrow]

to be fair orks usually just krump eachother -

yeah

[arctic talon]

Nah it’s faster then light

[ruby sparrow]

and that could mean ramming into something at FTL

[arctic talon]

It just needs a little time to start up

[ruby sparrow]

which does not end welll

for anyone

[arctic talon]

Yeah the best necron navigators

Need to be very careful

About slowing down and speeding up

[ruby sparrow]

so wait, to turn, necrons have to basically Drift their spaceships

[arctic talon]

Because if you just brake at full speed

Your ship fucking breaks

[sullen dome]

Yeah, usually they do it by slingshotting using gravity

Makes it much easier

[arctic talon]

Yeah necron ships are very cool

[sullen dome]

Though they also have the Dolmen gates

[ruby sparrow]

I now have the mental image of a necron ship blasting eurobeat as it drifts around a planet

[sullen dome]

Which no one seems to talk about

[arctic talon]

Dolmen gates are another ftl method

They’re faster then the inertialess drive

[ruby sparrow]

i dont CARE that sound doesnt travel in space

[sullen dome]

Yeah the Necrons casually have their own bootleg part of the webway

[arctic talon]

Because you can use the dolmen gate

[ruby sparrow]

having necron blast eurobeat so loud that hte entire planet can hear it is funny

[arctic talon]

And the drive together

So you go even fucking faster

It’s why the fastest necron ftl routes are predictable

[ruby sparrow]

just imagine a necron ship slightly dipping into the atmosphere and you just briefly hear eurobeat across the entire fucking planet

[arctic talon]

Based on dolmen gates and where gravity wells and planets are

[sullen dome]

Is necron travel faster over long distances than warp travel?

[arctic talon]

Yesnt

On average yes

Sometimes warp travel is way fucking faster

[ruby sparrow]

i mean it is if they dont fucking crash, presumably

[sullen dome]

Yeah sounds about right

[arctic talon]

And sometimes the Necrons need to be very careful because of a dense field of stuff

[sullen dome]

If warp travel works it’s gonna be faster than anything short of teleportation

[ruby sparrow]

its not about speed im guessing, its about "Navigator please dont slam into fucking terra at five times the speed of light"

"Trazyn still has things he wants there"

[sullen dome]

Also navigators please don’t accidentally dive us into the deep warp

Or purposefully

[ruby sparrow]

nono, im talking necron navigators

not psyker ones

[sullen dome]

Oo

Yeah

slamming into anything at any speed is generally considered a suboptimal possibility by the space skeletons

[ruby sparrow]

inertialess means that it iirc can keep accelerating and maintain its velocity, but without inertia, it also cant fucking turn or really uh, easily stop without slamming inertia back on

right

[arctic talon]

Yep

It’s a plot point

In infinite and the divine

Orkain scares the shit out of trazyn

Because of how he flys

[ruby sparrow]

"It doesnt matter how fast youre going if you cant control where you're going"

[sullen dome]

it works like regular breaks, if youre going fast you gonna ease on the breaks and not slam them

they say Trazyn often listens to an acient piece of terran art known only as Europas Beatus when traveling at high speeds

[ruby sparrow]

fuckit necron being into eurobeat is a fucking hilarious idea and i cant stop thinking of it

just imagine being a poor primitive civilization , some alien farmer on a primitive world, just medieval times or some shit, and suddenly a fucking necron ship slams into your planet at speeds faster than light because the pilots an idiot

[reef breach]

I saw some Rogue Trader gameplay on youtube and one moment really confused me. I'm putting it in spoiler just in case
||Astropath companion is somehow not a Psyker gameplay wise, is it ok lorewise?||

[hexed shard]

who names inquisitors?

[signal bramble]

Usually their names are whatever their names are.

[hexed shard]

i meant who makes them an inquisitor

[signal bramble]

They have to be sponsored by another inquisitor and once they're deemed worthy I believe it's at least 3 other inquisitors have to be ok with it?

But there have been times where an inquisitor died and entrusted their rosarius to their favored successor.

[hexed shard]

and who's above the inquisitors?

whats the next rank?

[signal bramble]

Lord Inquisitors.

Though the title is more a recognition of power and influence rather than an actual rank.

[hexed shard]

dont inquisitors get to rule their own warband?

[signal bramble]

That's a bit of a misnomer and I'm surprised they added that term. "Warband" is usually the term used for the chaos marines. An inquisitor's crew is traditionally called a "Retinue."

Their retinue are individuals they recruited in to their service for one reason or another.

[hexed shard]

oh i see

i thought inquisitors had like thousands of soldiers working for them

[signal bramble]

Some do.

But in the Cain novels there's an Inquisitor named Amberley Vail, she keeps a small crew because she travels light and fast so the logistics of a massive army isn't really her thing.

Same with Inquisitor Rostov in the Dawn of Fire series, he travels light and fast so he keeps a smaller retinue.

[hexed shard]

how many soldiers would they have more or less? like a few thousands or like hundreds of thousands? still trying to make sense of scale in 40k

[signal bramble]

Inquisitor Crowl on the other hand has an entire fortress crewed with soldiers.

[signal bramble]

An inquisitor can recruit as many as they feel is necessary for their task.

Hard numbers are very difficult to find in 40k, the usual answer is "it depends."

[hexed shard]

i see thanks

[signal bramble]

If they need an entire regiment to run interference for them and provide a distraction well that's what they're gonna do.

[hexed shard]

do soldiers get paid?

[signal bramble]

Not usually, no. But there are cases where they got leave in town and get drunk or visit brothels. So presumably they may get some kind of currency for the a planet they’re stationed in.

But the average Guard lifespan is 15 hours. So paying them isn’t that big a deal.

[hexed shard]

lol

[signal bramble]

Usually Johnny Guardsman gets sent in to battle and dies. If he survives he goes in to the next battle. If he manages to survive the war zone he gets some downtime traveling to the next warzone.

For the Emperor! Etc.

But in gaunt’s ghosts the Tanith regiment has performed well enough that they have their own camp followers that create a makeshift shanty town.

[rustic spruce]

what's the percentage of guards that make it past the 15 hours

[hexed shard]

about 50% id say

given that 15 hours is the average

[signal bramble]

Unknown.

[vital kernel]

There are so-called Crusading Inquisitors who will build their own sizeable retinue and on top of that usually requesition troops from the various branches of the Imperium to bolster their force.
Some of those can number in the ten ro hundreds of thousands depending on the task.

[solar canopy]

you have to realise that Inquisitors are basically the ultimate authority within the Imperium ... so if you are a general and an Inquisitor tells you to do something you do it

so Inquisitors can have whatever they want

Inquisitors can basically only be judged by their peers or the Emperor himself

[vital kernel]

Average Lifespans are always a bit of a warped perspective. If 30% of the Regiment dies in the first 2 hours of engagement, 30% make it about 24h in and the remaining 30% survive 72h and upwards you'll end up with some number like 15h average.
Doesn't mean most of them die at that time.

[ruby sparrow]

I cant get over the fucking necrons drifting

I've got a massive grin

[vital kernel]

I would not quite agree with that statement. Their jurisdiction is unlimited and they are not beholden to any of the Adeptus in the Imperium, but they do not have unlimited Authority in the System either.
They can not overrule the High Lords of Terra, or waltz into a Forge World and call the shots. And there is also Roboute to contend with in the Era Indomitus, who cares preciously little for Inquisitor Tantrums

[solar canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H8S-PjM-Mw

[vital kernel]

And I would argue if anyone had unlimited authority it would be the Lord Commander.

[solar canopy]

for the Average Joe ... inlcuding 99% of the Astra Militarum the point still stands though

[vital kernel]

I suppose yes. But there are plenty of Generals and Admiral who would not take orders from an Inquisitor due to being under direct order from High Lords.

[solar canopy]

"plenty" is a strong word in the context of how vast the Imperium is

[half nova]

are the eisenhorn books the closest related to this lore

may listen to them while driving

[solar canopy]

to the lore of Inquisitors? yes

Eisenhorn and Ravenor books are a pretty good read for udnerstanding how the inquisition works

[mystic geyser]

Yeah.

Set before the Era Indomitus, so a bit different, but still the best Inquisitor lore out there

[gusty sequoia]

who someone become Inquisitor

[solar canopy]

you mean how?

[celest dome]

Pretty much anyone could, in theory

You just need to be chosen by the Inquisitor to be taught

And then a group of Inquisitor has to agree to it

[vital kernel]

The Vaults of Terra books are also pretty good in that department.

[solar canopy]

they tend to pick kids from the schola progenium as students though

[celest dome]

Eh, bit hard to say

To be honest

Like usually they just pick someone from their Acolyte

Like Racknick a soon to be Inquisitor

And Zola would be the next to one

So while in principle you would take someone you (As an Inquisitor) would trust, it is not necessarily someone who was in the Schola

Like all the Psyker Inquisitor were not in the Schola Progenium

[solar canopy]

im just saying unless you are finding someone on your "adventures" then the usual recruitment pool for Inquisitors to find an Acolyte is promising Schola prospects

[weak fossil]

I found out an amazing piece of lore today

The Ogryn from darktide is cybernetically enhanced

with a chip to make him smart

I love it

[weak fossil]

Yeah, makes a grimdark kind of sense. If you want to recruit inquisitorial grunts, the safest place to source them is from the pool of orphans left behind by proven loyalists.

[celest dome]

Some are, some aren't

[weak fossil]

I thought all 3 of the sets of voicelines in the game were of the techmagi-enhanced smort version

[storm jungle]

The only bonehead ogryn is the The Brawler

Bully and Bodyguard aren't enhanced but seem a lot more smarter than the latter

[timid ferry]

Wait, the unenhanced ones are smarter?

Wut

[storm jungle]

shrug

Ogryns can learn

people just assume they are all braindead because of memes

taking a bonehead enhancement is more just "skipping" to being instantly smart

[celest dome]

More wise and more intelligent

Bonehead make you think faster

[solar canopy]

to be fair its not that hard to teach 4 year olds ... most people just wait to do it till their kids are 6-7 and then just offload them to elementary school so "they" dont have to

[storm jungle]

This.

Ogryns got the mind of children rather than being mentally disabled so to speak.

[steady sparrow]

i always feel bad for ogryns

most of the worlds they're from were prison worlds with high gravity

and they have blind faith in the emperor

Whatever i lamented enough about ogryns on my own

I do have a question though

What do you believe is the extent of the orkish power of belief?

I don't think Ork could shoot out of a pipe if you told him the pipe was a shoota

But it does cover up some manufacturing defects in their gear

It makes sure the guns don't jam, engines don't stall and rockets don't explode in the hands of the user

(most of the time)

[storm jungle]

They cannot.

Ork power of belief mostly works for machinery

they cannot warp reality, Waaagh Power™️ is more akin to psychic duct-tape

[versed obsidian]

I was just waiting for the "I'm a tank" gimmick to show up then. Lol. Waaaagh energy or power effects reality around them only so much. They (the orks) still understand they need some reasonable weapon to use. Even if it still shoots grechin...

[final spruce]

It also boost weirdboyz thanks to the warp effects it creates

[storm jungle]

Yep.

[celest dome]

Also used to work in Fantasy too, for the Orc Shamans

[barren tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/wurrzag-wurzag-greenskins-orcs-orcs-dancing-gif-21431638

[golden geode]

Is there a channel dedicated to 40k horror? I'm new to this franchise with Darktide and it is awesome.

[storm jungle]

Bookclub might be it if you want to talk about 40k horror novels

[golden geode]

Cool, thank you!

[storm jungle]

[solar canopy]

i think its more a question of the Orkz intelligence
an Ork would totally belive something works that hes given and told that it works if there is no reason for him to doubt that and at that point the "belief-power" makes it work
but stuff that is even for an Ork so obvious taht it wouldnt work cant be made to work by "belief-power" either

[celest dome]

Orks belief is closer to physics lubricant, not that magic

[solar canopy]

so an Ork just saying "im a tank" and thus hes a tank is not a thing
but an Ork engineer slapping something together and believing it works and then giving it to another Ork and telling him it works is something that totally works then

or in the words of Bricky "I totally filled the tank with gasoline before we went out" "Oh yeah you did that" and wamalam the engine starts up ... is there gas in it? we dont know. does it matter? No ... Ork power at its best

[crisp heath]

Quote for future generations

[sudden yoke]

how do inquisitors use power armor?

i always thought it was for space marine/primarch and those of their level

[solar canopy]

they wear it

[sudden yoke]

thanks lexy that clears it up

[solar canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-yes-sir-you-got-it-you-rock-yes-boss-gif-15459239

[sudden yoke]

a lot of the art work also depict inquisitors as being space marine sized too

[solar canopy]

well thats just humbug
but to answer the original question ... there is humansized power armor, sisters of battle use it aswell

[crisp heath]

I’m mutshell , powe armor requires only training and drill to be used , and usual human can be trained / drilled to use it , biggest issue with its use is Fibro muscle layer , and it’s specifics , still . Sororitas for example are just a humans in the end

Yet they are nuns in power armor

[sudden yoke]

ah that makes sense then

[crisp heath]

Also yes , I prefer this chest plate to armor tits

[sudden yoke]

ty bros

[storm jungle]

It's not, orks still need actual stuff to make machines work

the waaagh-field goes as far as just greasing the gears to make the more complex things function

theres a reason why things like Oil Squigs exist for fuel and such

[storm jungle]

If this is an ironic quote yeah, if not its pretty much wrong in a lot of places.

[crisp heath]

Not that much ironic considering imperial experience

[storm jungle]

Kinda but not really.

[crisp heath]

Hell even “friendly” xenos like eldar commonly have habit of backstabbing imperium and sometimes killing them for they’re own purpose

[storm jungle]

Humans can co-exist with aliens as shown by the Interex and Diasporex, the galaxy is a massive place the problem is 40k is a war-setting first and foremost, nobody wants to read about peaceful alien cvilizations.

[storm jungle]

When the humans in the setting are racist and fascist psychos i dont really blame them, the Imperium more or so would do the same.

Also like, theres so many examples of humans trading with aliens on non-imperial hub zones and whatnot.

[crisp heath]

Yea , yea , let’s all forget about slave raids , eldar corsairs , eldar ideology of they’re own supremacy , neckrons considering humans bugs which needed to be squeezed off they’re empire , orcs just killing for fun and exetera

[storm jungle]

You do realise the Imperium does all of these too right.

[crisp heath]

Hate to xenos isn’t something humanity forced on them

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

The Imperium is more or so the cause of all its own problems, even back during the Great Crusade the Imperium wiped out many alien civillizations that didn't do anything to them.

well I say aliens

humans too

It was more or less a galactic jihad to put it bluntly

[crisp heath]

Humanity survived dark technology era in which they’ve see all kind of shit

[storm jungle]

Humanity did.

Not the Imperium.

Everyone was in their own pocket civilisation doing their own thing, they didn't ask to be saved.

[crisp heath]

Imperium is biggest state of humans in galaxy

It is

A humanity

[storm jungle]

Not really

You dont get to be choose to be in the Imperium

its forced on you as a human

Either way yeah, the Imperium is not really innocent in any of this.

[crisp heath]

Welcome to realizing how nations works

[storm jungle]

Nations work as seperate entities

not:

[crisp heath]

Nope but nor are xenos

[storm jungle]

"I own all of you."

[storm jungle]

Not really my point

[crisp heath]

I meant regarding being born inside of it

[storm jungle]

but yeah dont try to justify the stuff the Imperium does, they kill more of their own kind than xenos do most of the time

its kinda the comedic/morbid point

[crisp heath]

Idk maybe it’s military mentality or else , for me , humans are resource , and imperium have enough of it to use it properly

Death of one is a tragedy

10

[storm jungle]

Thats the joke yes

[crisp heath]

Something that happens

10000 - horrible atrocity

1 million - statistics

[storm jungle]

I know the Stalin quote yes.

[crisp heath]

It’s not quite

[storm jungle]

eh same thing

[crisp heath]

*qoute

Something that I was learned on officer courses

[storm jungle]

Cool. At the end of the day its suppose to be something harrowing

[crisp heath]

Stuff

[storm jungle]

seeing people as numbers is also not a great outlook

[crisp heath]

It’s hard not to when there’s as much them as bugs in hive

[storm jungle]

Okay so?

[ruby sparrow]

So necron ships do work by just messing with inertia right

And essentially have to turn inertia back on to drift if they want to turn

[storm jungle]

Necron ships are pretty much the best, they don’t have any access to the warp as you know. So while they can abuse the laws of physics for the best ships out there, they lack the shortcut and outright different laws of physics of the warp.

A necron ship would be faster in every real space scenario, but the warp existing lets anyone with access to it to simply bypass that restriction

TLDR: necron ships are faster, but stuck in real space. Warp-accessible ships are slower, but can take shortcuts

So they basically ignore physics to just accelerate indefinitely.

[ruby sparrow]

but cant steer while doing so because of no inertia

[storm jungle]

They are spaceships, they can go in any direction

[ruby sparrow]

huh

[storm jungle]

Space is 3D

🧠

[barren tapir]

And we don't have only those two examples btw

[ruby sparrow]

yeah but youd still need inertia to not go in a straight line right

[storm jungle]

Anyone trying to defend the Imperium's genocidal shit is pretty sus to begin with so

[ruby sparrow]

the imperium is kinda sus

[storm jungle]

[celest dome]

The Imperium is the cause of all peril Humanity face

[barren tapir]

Actually it is a warping of big E message, it happened once shit hit the fan and the imperium became religious

[celest dome]

And the greatest supporter of Chaos

[ruby sparrow]

also would a drug den being a front for a slaaneshi cult make sense or is that too tame

[storm jungle]

I missed that message oof

also like

humans hate anything they dont like

each other included, so you know

[ruby sparrow]

I mean

[storm jungle]

[ruby sparrow]

based on dark forest theory of the fermi paradox

xenophobia is a good thing

[storm jungle]

[ruby sparrow]

As in towards aliens

not towards our own species

[storm jungle]

I simply follow the Metro creed.

[ruby sparrow]

"If its not human, point a gun at it"

[storm jungle]

If not, don't massacre them maybe

[ruby sparrow]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_forest_hypothesis

[barren tapir]

That person seems to have recently met the lore and the history of WH40K, i know this because i nearly had the same reaction when i first met WH40K

[ruby sparrow]

basically dark forest hypothesis assumes every alien species is paranoid as fuck and doesnt send out info because they dont trust eachother to not immediately attempt to wipe out eachother

[storm jungle]

Yeah but like

thats the thing with theories

they are theories, we literally got no idea what aliens even look like lol

[ruby sparrow]

also not theory, hypothesis

[storm jungle]

same thing tbh

[ruby sparrow]

no, its not

hypothesis is less solid

[storm jungle]

Same thing.

[barren tapir]

A reasonable theory tbh, but we humans instead are trying to contact others, i mean IRL, and we are also sending everywhere the indications to where we are lol

[storm jungle]

one just has more observation

[celest dome]

Worse thing

[ruby sparrow]

wouldnt it be funny if we were somehow the first species to reach the point we're at

or at least the first within several galaxies distance

[barren tapir]

Or maybe the first of this cycle uh uh

Luv me some stellaris

[celest dome]

It's one of the hypothesis on why nobody respond

[rustic spruce]

Perhaps we’re in a halo situation where some aliens nuked us back into the stone age

[ruby sparrow]

I mean its unlikely but its a nonzero possibility

[celest dome]

Well Earth formed quite early iirc

[ruby sparrow]

Not to mention the conditions of earth had a lot of variables

distance from sun, exact chemicals, exact progress of atmosphere, exact conditions of evolution

like, its possible that the dice rolled the same on other planets out there, but its likely an exception and not the rule

the main question would be "How far away is the nearest life"

[signal bramble]

Depends on if's a scientific theory or just a theory, because the two are not the same.

[crisp heath]

cough in all the xenos purged through the Great crusade

Yea , yea , sure

[barren tapir]

Anyway, i have to go kill some followers of Vanu on Auraxis, see you later people... And remember, fuck the imperium for destroying the interex, the diasporex, the gordian league and the others untold human civilizations that managed to survive the shit that was the age of strife only to be destroyed by pumped up biological weapons and dumb artifical failed perpetuals... Fuck now i'm angry, time to punch some Vanus

[signal bramble]

The great crusade was going to turn around and wipe out the aliens sooner or later.

[rustic spruce]

As long as there are two species left in this universe, somebodies gonna want somebody dead

[ruby sparrow]

Space elves (And all elves) deserve genocide. I am legally obliged to say this as of being a dwarf fortress player

[celest dome]

Ha, as if we need two species

[barren tapir]

Funnily enough not really, at least if big E remained in command, and we also know that some primarchs went against his orders and killed xenos that shouldn't have been killed

[signal bramble]

The imperium needed space, if you really believe they weren't going to turn around and wipe out the non-humans eventually then I don't know what to tell you.

[crisp heath]

Meh, it’s same as telling that earth would be better off in hands of techno barbarians . Without emperor humanity won’t be able to properly use warp , without it any “Free and grand” human states would just stay like that

Small states in gigantic emptiness

No potential

No future

[ruby sparrow]

Humabnity is a hyperagressive species. the fact that war and such exists is testament to our species ungabunga territorial nature

[crisp heath]

Dead end

[signal bramble]

It is true they focused on wiping the really aggressive and dangerous xenos first and left the non-dangerous ones alone, that is absolutely correct. But, in my opinion, saying that they weren't going to go after the other ones eventually for more space/resources and were going to leave them alone is, at best, a very naive way to look at things.

[ruby sparrow]

"look we need the fucking real estate and habitable planets are worth warring over"

so basically space colonialism

man this reall is written by the british

[celest dome]

If the Emperor didn't take matter in hand we would have more disparate humanity but we would still have a lot of them who would develop around Psyker, like Fenrir, with Shamans, and Magnus' planet

[crisp heath]

Humans had long shit show with xenos , some raid them for fun , some use humans as part of they’re pupiting and else

[signal bramble]

Excuse me, I believe it's pronounced "Bri'ish"

They drank all the T.

[crisp heath]

If emperor won’t be a thing we won’t had his light guiding through warp

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/see-myself-out-gif-14903880

[rustic spruce]

The only good deldar is a dead deldar

[crisp heath]

Without it no warp flights

[signal bramble]

I really like elves in fantasy settings but the eldar an deldar just don't do anything for me. =/

[ruby sparrow]

Also fun fact the WH fantasy map also looks a lot like real earth and reflects some regions on where certain factions are placed in the total war games

[barren tapir]

Completely wrong, and shown not only by all the human civlisations that were met during the great crusade, but also by the new lore we got with the votann, the astronomican is used by navigators, but you can warp travel even without them... Ask the empires of inwit and maccrage, or the araneus continuity or the interex itself

[ruby sparrow]

i keep mixing up total war and DOW

[crisp heath]

Walking in warp without navigator is an suicide

And I don’t give a fuck what space dwarf says

[celest dome]

The civ before the Age of Strife had ways to do it iirc

[ruby sparrow]

probably with computers

[crisp heath]

Yea , before fucking slanesh wake up

[ruby sparrow]

or ai making predictions

[signal bramble]

The books have shown that short warp jumps are possible without a navigator and are relatively safe. As safe as warp travel can be anyway.

[ruby sparrow]

I mean warp travel is more of a "Its usually safe but if shit goes wrong it goes real fucking wrong" right

[crisp heath]

Short warp jumps won’t allow you to get a fuck out of system your in

[signal bramble]

Still saves time though, in theory.

[crisp heath]

It’s same difference as sailing Atlantic and pacific

Atlantic can be fine

But pacific make you regret being born

[ruby sparrow]

Either way, warp travel may have had computers or AI as navigators

[crisp heath]

Man of steel

[ruby sparrow]

maybe such designed specificly to be able to tune in to the warp

[crisp heath]

Remember fucking man of steel

Remember fucking shits that May want to kill you because they can and can be corrupted by chaos

[signal bramble]

Not really, if the short warp jumps go correctly, it's faster than just moving the ship from place to place normally.

By "normally" I mean just traveling through space the old fashioned way.

[ruby sparrow]

thats. probably exactly why they can be corrupted by chaos

[crisp heath]

I meant it before age of strife and dark era of technology

[storm jungle]

You do realise humans did this to each other too right

[signal bramble]

The warp was supposed to be calmer back then though.

[crisp heath]

Yup

[ruby sparrow]

I mean humans are fucking assholes so

thats to be expected

[storm jungle]

Doesnt sound like it

[ruby sparrow]

but aliens dont get away with it because insert extreme space racism here

[crisp heath]

Yea , same difference as with Atlantic and pacific

[storm jungle]

Dont make me tap the sign

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/

[crisp heath]

Issue is , it’s easier to use anti xeno propaganda

[ruby sparrow]

I'm not being racist to humans i mean, aliens

[crisp heath]

Plus

[storm jungle]

I getcha.

[crisp heath]

It’s easier to hate xeno

[signal bramble]

Warhammer is for everyone, unless you're poor. Then GW doesn't like you.

[crisp heath]

Just look at them

[storm jungle]

Yikes.

[ruby sparrow]

Like we are NATURALLY attuned to find things which are close to human but not to be sus

at best

[signal bramble]

It says in the loading screen in darktide, "the xenos greatest crime is existence."

[ruby sparrow]

and to be hostile or warry of things which arent normal

[storm jungle]

The loading quotes are so good

shame the message is lost on a lot of people

especially when it has things like:

[ruby sparrow]

"A mind is a healthy mind"

[storm jungle]

"THINKING IS BAD, DONT DO IT."

[signal bramble]

I think my favorite is "the imperium stands on the shoulders of martyrs."

I thought that one was pretty badass.

[storm jungle]

Some are pretty gold

[ruby sparrow]

hey i found what level 30s on quickplay read

[signal bramble]

"Intellect is the mask of the traitor."

[storm jungle]

LMFAO

Okay thats hilarious

[signal bramble]

MFW when:

[ruby sparrow]

"Forgiveness is a crime punishable by death"

[storm jungle]

Should be the moderator motto at this point

[ruby sparrow]

"A Suspicious Mind is a healthy mind"

[crisp heath]

“Biggest fool is one who claims to know everything , while not being afraid of nothing” and then “Only truly brave one , fear nothing while knowing everything”

[ruby sparrow]

also on that note, "Among-Us" and "Sussy-Baka" are in fact banned character names. But "Sussus-Amogus" isnt

[storm jungle]

theres only so many ways you could block amongus names

[crisp heath]

MESSAGE CORRECTED BY INQUISITION

[ruby sparrow]

To be fair allowing sussus amogus to slide is funny

[storm jungle]

its probably because they didnt think of that combination

[ruby sparrow]

and its also genuinely funny

"I have a good fwend on terra named "Sussus-Amogus" "

[signal bramble]

Games do censor names but it's just not possible for them to think of every possible combination or how creative people can be with that stuff.

[ruby sparrow]

I mean they got REAL creative with some of the racist stuff. like, they CHECKED what people use to get around filters sometimes

as for how I know this, I stress tested the system after it blocked me from naming a character "Adam Savage" for having the word Vag in it

but this is off topic

[barren tapir]

Fucking bullshit this is, warp travels without navigators is feasible, the danger increase the more long you want it, but short warp jumps are enough safe that human civs after the age of strife did that, and are enough to move from system to system

[royal turret]

Man, games be getting real soft lately...

[crisp heath]

It was passed through , and even with this , it’s not viable nor effective

[crisp heath]

Especially considering distances necessary to pass inside of an universe

[signal bramble]

Warp travel was a thing though before Navigators existed though right? So they must have been doing it.

[storm jungle]

Navigators are basically the only viable option atm yeah

and they got a merchandise on the whole thing

Big E wasnt exactly a fan of that

[barren tapir]

Yes, it was made way before navigators became a thing and also way before the anstronomican was made, so saying that without navigators and astronomican warp travel is impossible is BS

Hell, Mars sent entire fleets outside the system way before terra became pacified but noooo, it is impossible because i read imperial propaganda

[signal bramble]

I was messing around with sharpshooter last night and I ended up in a party with all sharpshooters that had the cadian or professional voice. It had a very military strike team vibe to it as we did the mission and the way they communicated. It was pretty cool. I love spec ops/black ops stuff and I've always wanted a book about the tempestus scions doing something like that.

[ruby sparrow]

yeah the navigators having a monopoly is a mess

[barren tapir]

BTW, the reason i'm writing here is because i cannot punch vanu's faces

[ruby sparrow]

also they're so fucking inbred that they make the habsburgs look diverse

[crisp heath]

It’s only matter of how far they’ll get and how many return

[barren tapir]

Look at how many forge worlds there are, many if not all were made at the time

[ruby sparrow]

i never thought i'd type that sentence

[storm jungle]

I mean its correct

their entire deal is incest

[signal bramble]

But then you have a horrible realization.

The Navigators were created by Big E who created the mutation meaning he knew full well that they'd have to inbreed with each other to pass on the gene.

[storm jungle]

Navis werent created by Big E

they popped around DAOT

there isnt a clear origin point

[crisp heath]

And ? Look, how far would they go without the light of astronomicon? You can say all you fucking want but it would be same case as why horses get removed , SHORT RANGE MOVES FROM TIME TO TIME ISNT VIABLE not for big traid nor for something bigger then small operations or else .

[ruby sparrow]

this is why genemodding should be a thing

[crisp heath]

It’s very easy to empathy those who got crushed

[ruby sparrow]

I mean they COULD use compooter

but that has its own risks

[signal bramble]

Excuse me, it's called a "cogitator." >:C

[ruby sparrow]

see: Viva la toaster libre

[crisp heath]

Harder to face that if they got crushed by those , the. They’d get crushed by others

[barren tapir]

You don't know how much they could travel without navigators do you? Nor you know if they have others way to move... You ignore so much that it is hilarious

[ruby sparrow]

couldnt one theoreticly make a warp compatible computer to do navigator shit

[crisp heath]

Moon cult use to do it , before one crazy bitch astra accident and big boom on moon

[barren tapir]

It is way easier than that, but yes, it could be done

[crisp heath]

I know that those factions you mentioned earlier and from what this entire shit talk erupted was crushed by imperium , if they wasn’t by then they’d do so by others . Nothing unusual nor unique

[storm jungle]

Whos gonna tell em the Imperium needs Mechanicus more than the Mechanicus needs the Imperium.

[crisp heath]

It’s too changeable and chaotic for usual machine to analyze, it would need mind as much as man of iron to do that , but then again you know why it’s bad idea to use them

[crisp heath]

Why mechanicus even need to refuse / deny imperium , plus you do overthink mechanicus unity

Just as imperium isn’t unitar state , nor mechanicus is United

[storm jungle]

Yeah but they still dont need the Imperium

its not about unity

the Imperium is more or less their meatshield

War of the Beast has proved this.

[rustic spruce]

i mean that's a good reason to need somebody

[storm jungle]

More or less.

The moment things go to shit Admech will bail

[crisp heath]

Why? They give them resources and trade which they can use to throw shit at theyre opponent and get richer

Not to mention tech monopoly

[storm jungle]

You do realise they can do that with any other planet right

its not really just Imperials

[ruby sparrow]

Admech probably just tolerates the imperium because theyre big and they just dont want to bother getting off their gaming-Servo skulls to throw hands themselves

[rustic spruce]

how come those mechanicus nerds can't build men of iron like the chad votaan

[crisp heath]

You do realize that for example , martian mechanicus despise Lucius mechanicus and so on?

[crisp heath]

Because they remember history

?

[storm jungle]

The entire 90% of the Imperium warmachine runs with the help of the admech, the moment they are gone its kinda fucked

[storm jungle]

Because they are religious nutcases that think innovation is bad.

[crisp heath]

Because they aren’t idiots which try to do same shit OVER AGAIN EXPECTING DIFFERENT REULTS ?

[storm jungle]

They are tho

LMAO

[crisp heath]

Votan ? I doubt horde of clones know a shit

[storm jungle]

They do tho

[rustic spruce]

cawl literally did the space marine experiments over again to achieve different results

[crisp heath]

About theyre past

[storm jungle]

its literally imprinted onto them

[signal bramble]

Also big E made the Admech promise not to make AI.

[storm jungle]

Bingo.

[crisp heath]

It’s not even that

Look

Look fucking outside and question why people don’t want to nuke eachother

Is it because they are so humain Or because they do remember what happened with 2 cities which was nuked?

Id put my bet on 2

[storm jungle]

We dont really know who started the Men of Iron rebellion

only that some machines helped humans in the conflict against the more genocidal robots

but its left entirely obscure

[signal bramble]

Mutually assured destruction.

[storm jungle]

^

Nobody wants to wipe out the human species

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/puppet-awkward-looking-what-side-eye-gif-15476992

[crisp heath]

We know that it happened and that they want to kill humans , even more we know about dark tech era where dictators used high tech to unleash horors beyond iagination just for fun

[storm jungle]

We don't know anything.

[crisp heath]

Then why we talk at all

[storm jungle]

We arent tho

[barren tapir]

Since they already tried so during the war of the beast there is no doubt

[storm jungle]

we literally dont know anything LMAO

its literally like 2 lore entries

[storm jungle]

Yep then went all

"Haha guys we were just joking"

[crisp heath]

Either way off to work

[rustic spruce]

the votaan likely treat their men of iron better

[storm jungle]

They do

[signal bramble]

They treat them as fellow kyn.

[celest dome]

They treat them as equal, Kin

[storm jungle]

the codex makes a big point of this

yep

The robots Votann use arent fully AI but they act more like the Tau drones

they dont got unique personalities

[signal bramble]

There’s even an option for a robot hearthkyn in the box.

So it’s not just the little drones.

[storm jungle]

Yeee they use AI widely

[celest dome]

The drones aren't Ironkin

They are more basic

[rustic spruce]

isn't their civilization run by ai cores

[storm jungle]

Yes

[celest dome]

Yup

The nominative Votann

[storm jungle]

The way the cores act is also entirely homebrew

From super efficient to super dumb to super slow

gives your League more stretching room

[celest dome]

The Van Saar might have a broken Votann

[storm jungle]

Nah

[barren tapir]

Ironkin have unique personalities btw

[storm jungle]

its just an STC

Van Saar's STC doesnt tell them anything

it just builds things

[barren tapir]

Not exactly

It has its own sorta of will

[final spruce]

Glad to see the Votann cores acts as cantankerous as their age would imply

[barren tapir]

It was itself that decided to destroy house hera

It is also developing itself

Like interfacing with other stuff, and also unlocking some stuff

It is highly probable that if Votann find it would call it a Votann, or would realize it is close to become one

[celest dome]

Isn't their stuff quite broken though ? And from a crashed space ship or something

[barren tapir]

It is leaking radiations yes, but for the rest it is an intact STC

It was the STC that the colonists had with them when they departed to Araneus, then they got stranded in the warp, exited it around m35, crashlanded on Araneus and then the story get murky, either they were the original settlers or they are the result of a group of scavengers that found the ship and took the name and the tech

[slender orchid]

House of the Four Armed Emperor for next lord governor

We are just as legitimate as Orlock or Van Saar. More even. We control an entire hive (and the under cities of the others)

[celest dome]

What do you bring to the Governor, what benefice does House Helmgart get from your house ?

[echo vault]

Living on the rock would suck

Imagine the amount of keys you need to get anywhere

Just carrying 2 tons of metal on a giant keyring to get around your section of the rock (3 rooms)

[brittle slate]

I do sometimes wonder if the Votann are responsible, in part, for tau drone intelligence

But. Yeesh does LoV not have any lore.

No release book. Barely any actual lore in the book. Rough launch.

[barren tapir]

They are just arrived, give them time

Slow but steady

[storm jungle]

At the moment its only their Ion tech.

[barren tapir]

And railgun

[brittle slate]

Lol- no not railgun

[barren tapir]

Yes, the railgun

[brittle slate]

Yes but the relationship has been around for, what, 4K years?

[brittle slate]

Prove it.

[barren tapir]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Magna-rail

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Magna_Rail_Rifle

[brittle slate]

The Sry’tok Demiurg gave ion tech to the tau in trade sometime during the first sphere. They also ensured the tau would survive using contacts with the eldar. The Thurm were later given safe harbor probably sometime during the 2nd sphere.

[brittle slate]

… that’s a rail gun

[barren tapir]

Yeah, and it is a Votann weapon

[slender orchid]

Demiurg ARE Votann...

[brittle slate]

This is a terrible wiki entry

[barren tapir]

Lol

[brittle slate]

And adds a supposition on behalf of the author

[barren tapir]

Sure

[celest dome]

Kin, not Votann

[brittle slate]

I… yes?

[slender orchid]

Grr, foisted again. Correct sir/madam/bug creature

[barren tapir]

So yes, Tu got railguns from the Leagues, from the Kin

[celest dome]

I mean, I though it was quite clear what I was

[brittle slate]

Ok. Well I guess your just dense then.

[barren tapir]

But in true Kin fashion they didn't shared the full tech, and tau had to find ways to improve it

[brittle slate]

Almost everyone has rail tech

[barren tapir]

Nah, just know more stuff than you

[barren tapir]

Ok, still tau got it by the Kin

[slender orchid]

cricket noises just Tau and Leagues really. Necrontyr, but Tau haven't encountered them.

[barren tapir]

Well, Ad. Mech. know the priciples behind them, but haven't found yet a way to give the necessary power to make them man portable... I mean, they know that too, but they are bound by dogma and religious shit... Unless you read between the lines ehehehehe

[brittle slate]

… do you just need things to have it in the title? A nova cannon type is a railgun

[brittle slate]

You think tau haven’t encountered necrons?

[brittle slate]

I dub thee troll.

[storm jungle]

No like

they are right

Railguns are tau/votann

[arctic talon]

There’s like a single imperial rail gun

[atomic pelican]

Marykn Suekn dorfs

[arctic talon]

In 40k lol

[brittle slate]

The tau first developed rail gun technology in the form of the “spine gun” before the first sphere of expansion

[arctic talon]

And a tech priest mini uses it

[brittle slate]

Literally as a way to combat the orks in the Tau’n system

That’s in the same time period that they encountered the Nicassar on the edge of their own home system: which they then upgraded with rail guns after unifying

[dusk patrol]

Titanicus and Forges of Mars both have high ranking Ad Mech who say the complete opposite of this, they need the Imperium for a lot, without them they lose their supply lines, access to labor, connections to the galaxy, protection.

They're still probably the single most powerful faction for a reason but they need the Imperium. Especially because they're split within as bad as anyone, without the Imperium Mars likely wouldn't keep its top dog status anymore.

Sure War of the Beast says otherwise but War of the Beast is an awful series which is also way less current than the other books.

[brittle slate]

And a nova cannon is: While some variation exists, the basic design of a Nova Cannon consists of an array of gravimetric impellers which accelerate a projectile to close to the speed of light, making it a relativistic projectile

Bfg

[signal bramble]

I hate it so much tbh.

[dusk patrol]

Please actually read lore before making an ass of yourself. Its more recent LoV lore which says this.

I believe they shared their Ion tech in return.

Also I'm pretty sure its been lore since before.

[barren tapir]

Titanicus and Forge of mars are quite old tbh... And titanicus is dubious at best about canonicity, at least compared to more recent stuff

[dusk patrol]

With the Demiurge

[dusk patrol]

Nothing about Titanicus is dubious in its canonicity.

[arctic talon]

^

[dusk patrol]

Its just a Sabbat Worlds book

[arctic talon]

There’s nothing in it that’s weird

[barren tapir]

I said if we compare it to more recent stuff, not in itself

[arctic talon]

It doesn’t really break any established canon

[signal bramble]

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong here, it’s wrong about the size and methods of piloting the titans.

[storm jungle]

Titanicus the game is the one thats 90% off

[arctic talon]

^

Yeah this

[storm jungle]

to the point that the maker of the game itself said the authors need to stop wanking the titan sizes

the book itself is fine

[dusk patrol]

Oh, I'm talking about the book.

[storm jungle]

Yee the book doesnt do anything wrong

[barren tapir]

Uhm... I remember thinking about it having some parts that were not canon anymore, but i might be mixing stuff

[arctic talon]

If you’re talking about the skitarii being weird

Then that’s canon

[dusk patrol]

There's a whole plotline of a faction in the Ad Mech discovering that the Emperor is probably not the Omnissiah, but it ends up getting basically discarded after a small schism by the higher ranking Ad Mech due to them basically saying that

1. It doesn't really matter at this point.

2. The Ad Mech cannot survive without the Imperium.

[arctic talon]

Skitarii are really varried

[dusk patrol]

Yeah

[barren tapir]

I know that Elite

[dusk patrol]

We just see the Mars pattern ones and that general look because well, its models

And making a lot of models is hard.

God I hate War of the Beast, so much potential squandered.

[brittle slate]

I mean. Go fuck your self.

Then there are items like the volkanite disintegrators, which use technology since lost to the Imperium, or ion technology, which is proscribed by the Adeptus Mechanicus. That’s their loss – the T’au Empire certainly seemed to appreciate being taught how to harness it…

That’s ion tech.

Just produce something in a book for rail guns.

[dusk patrol]

I would also suggest some reading comprehension

[brittle slate]

Having trouble with copy and paste I see.

[dusk patrol]

Unfortunately I can't copy a lore video, and I'm gonna be straight, I don't care really if you think I'm wrong.

You've already proven yourself to be one of the more insufferable and impossible to discuss things with of the Tau fandom.

[brittle slate]

I think you’re just a try hard and an asshole. So then there’s that.

[brittle slate]

You just can’t prove it.

And that’s fine.

But you started slinging dirt and now you’re backing down.

[dusk patrol]

I'm not, I don't care to, you're literally not worth the time.

[brittle slate]

Clearly I am since you just won’t stop.

[dusk patrol]

Ok

[brittle slate]

You get a clip, a sentence, something from a book and I’ll be more than happy to admit some kind of retcon. Until then you’re just wrong and you over extended because you don’t like me.

Tau have always gotten ion tech from demiurg which were always squats in the eyes of the designers. Rail guns? I await your details.

[dusk patrol]

No, you've just been an ass to everyone in this conversation, and have been in the past

Anyways

[barren tapir]

Lol, not even accept he was wrong all the time no, just a retcon lol...

[ruby sparrow]

also why are squigs fucking explosive

[barren tapir]

And not even a full retcon mind you, jus some kind of retcon, like he know the lore better than us all

[dusk patrol]

I think mostly they just strap explosives to them

Also you know, its Ork stuff

They're literally made for war

[brittle slate]

It would have to be wouldn’t it since BFG’s description for tau railguns came out in 2002

[dusk patrol]

There's plenty of really great Tau fans and stuff to have conversations with, this guy is an example of the worst whose not worth engaging with.

[barren tapir]

Indeed, i noticed this long time ago, and i just laugh at his post now

[brittle slate]

Boohoo. More toxic 40k fans. I’m shocked.

[arctic talon]

[dusk patrol]

[arctic talon]

This conversation has been intresting to read from the sideline

[celest dome]

Squug basically have a high évolution potential, and mutate to fit the need of the Orks

[dusk patrol]

They can also be hair, there’s not a lot they can’t do

[signal bramble]

@brittle slate Is this the lore you wanted?

It’s in the Votann codex on page 33.

[atomic pelican]

Yea thats ion. He was talking abt rail(?)

He specifically mentioned ion

Being gifted

[signal bramble]

Ooo I see. Let me see if I can find anything in the Tau codex.

[atomic pelican]

Nah, that codex released before votann did

It wont have a mention of them

[acoustic kraken]

Aight I’ll open the can of worms. This game is my first foray into the WH40k universe. Should I pick up books? YouTube lore videos? Where do I even begin to understand this amazing and in depth story/universe?

[signal bramble]

I’d say YouTube is a good start. Luetin has a good video on intro to 40k and general lore.

[dusk patrol]

The basic rulebook is a good start honestly

[signal bramble]

The 40k wiki and Lexicanum are good sources to. The books that provide lore can be a bit expensive. Like the 40k 9th edition and 8th edition core rule books provide some general lore.

[dusk patrol]

It has a lot of good fluff

I’d just try to stay away from meme lore and understand that the wikis are often outdated or just kinda wrong with their info so take it with a grain of salt

[brittle slate]

Thank you, this was in reference to rail guns.

[signal bramble]

I was only vaguely following the convo.

I did check the 8th and 9th edition codexes and there’s nothing on the origin of the railgun. It’s possible it’s mentioned in a novel somewhere but I don’t have every detail memorized despite my extensive novel reading. XD

[brittle slate]

The origin of tau rail tech is in BFG

The Explorer was the breakthrough for Tau science that made the Empire possible. Its massive reactor was capable of sustaining the gravitic drive over lengthy dives. Based on average speeds using full warp travel, not that the average means a great deal, the drive was slower by a factor of five. It was adequate though and the Explorer could also boast massive cargo capacity, extensive research facilities and most importantly the ability to serve as a mobile dock for semi-independent ships. Its cargo bays were large enough to carry modular orbital units, waystations and even (more recently)message boats. It was the galleon of the Tau Empire and for nearly a hundred tau'cyr it was the only class of ship continually in production. During this time it moved from mark I to XXIII benefiting from a succession of improvements and special adaptations. Conflict with the Orks was the class' death knell. It was not a specialist warship and its weaponry was incapable of keeping Terrorships and Killkroozers at a distance. Work on the Merchant class was accelerated. When it was complete production of the Explorer dropped 85%. Refits have proceeded though and the profiles represent the most common variant in service and the most recent upgrade.

If there’s been something new. Which @dusk patrol says there is, it would be a retcon that tau didn’t invent their own major weapon system. But I think it was more like he doesn’t like me and wanted to be contentious.

[atomic pelican]

If all there is is that votann entry, then unlikely

Since Votann only have their codex for fluff rn

[arctic talon]

There was the lore masters thing on warhammer+

With the GW writers

[atomic pelican]

It rlly wouldnt surprise me much, tau lore is always on a steadily declining slope of quality

[brittle slate]

Those are the original ion cannon entries.

The tau were introduced to the Demiurg by the Kroot. So it would have had to have been after 884.M38

Tau colonized Tau'N in 756.M36 after decades of fighting Warlord Scraghurtz which they specifically fought with their gravitic launcher/spine guns: Gravitic launchers are massive railguns where mass drivers trigger the initial acceleration before the ships gravitic field is pulsed to squeeze the missiles toward the enemy at enormous speed. The missiles are drone- controlled and exceptionally dangerous.

[brittle slate]

I think they specifically got the Demiurg thing wrong when they said that was the Tau word for them. Which is Bentu'sin. The word demiurg has been in use by the imperium since 30k.

[brittle slate]

can't argue there.

[arctic talon]

Honestly Idfk what’s going on

With the votaan rn

It’s a clusterfuck

[brittle slate]

yeah. it's makes me super upset for LoV fans

[atomic pelican]

Yeah this isn't a strike at tau, they just have the Phil Kelly curse. Eldar and Tau both get p much the worst books in the setting, though I obvs like both

[brittle slate]

that said, there is a lot there to work with if they can find the right author

like the Necrons

[brittle slate]

No, I totally agree. You literally can't be a Tau fan without building a wall between kelly lore and the rest of it because it doesn't make any sense if you try to combine. It's... a clusterfuck unto itself

And eldar... jesus...

After they lost their new Ynnari lore I don't think they've been given a second look

[atomic pelican]

Honestly at this rate, with the newest Shadowsun, I think Tau actually have the worse books

[brittle slate]

agreed.

[atomic pelican]

Eldar lore is mostly just gav circlejerking "muh dying race" but at least our themes remain internally consistent to some extent

Tau change with every new book, for the worse

[brittle slate]

that's true

[brittle slate]

certainly if kelly is writing them

[atomic pelican]

Yep

Idk if anyone else writes them anymore(?)

[brittle slate]

Fehvari

[atomic pelican]

Oh yes

I still need to read Day of Ascension, I quite like Peter

[signal bramble]

The new shadowsun book is a legitimate catastrophe, that's for sure.

[brittle slate]

it's honestly some of the best BL books for grimdark

[signal bramble]

It's really good.

[atomic pelican]

Oh wait, DoA is not Fehrvari oop

[brittle slate]

I think BL has picked up on how much Tau fans hate Kelly lore though

[atomic pelican]

But still, I like his other cult books

[brittle slate]

he was moved to AoS

and the special editions of Shadowsun didn't sell

[brittle slate]

he's a good writer- just not aliens

[atomic pelican]

People tell me he's actually quite good for AoS

[brittle slate]

https://www.blacklibrary.com/authors/peter-fehervari

[signal bramble]

I was going to pick up the audiobook but a friend of mine told me all the important lore bits to save me money.

[brittle slate]

Spiral Dawn*

[brittle slate]

There's a few reviews on reddit- weirdly there is almost zero lore in it

[atomic pelican]

Yeah Spiral Dawn was okay

Actually no, Spiral Dawn was Good. I was just disappointed that it was basically a guard book with a cult cover

[signal bramble]

The 40k lore subreddit has rules about recent book releases.

[atomic pelican]

I quit like 75% of the way through because it was legit a guard book

[signal bramble]

You can post general lore and thoughts about the book but no major spoilers.

[brittle slate]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/z7l822/shadowsun_spoiler_heavy_repost/

[signal bramble]

Ah I don't know about the rules on that subreddit.

I was talking about the specific 40klore one.

[brittle slate]

he does do that- guard books dressed up like xenos

[atomic pelican]

Yeah that's a Bruh moment

I have literally 0% interest in guard books

I will say, the actual GSC perspectives in Spiral dawn are really cool though

[brittle slate]

I just get tired of the constant imperial faction perspective

[atomic pelican]

Yeee

Most guard books just strike me as WW1 circlejerking, and we all know that's not a oversaturated book type or anything

[brittle slate]

lol

[atomic pelican]

Or the A-Team but worse

[brittle slate]

LOL

[signal bramble]

That's why I like Ciaphas Cain, it adds some much needed levity.

Also, despite being a side character in them, I think Amberley Vail is one of the best written inquisitors of all the 40k stuff.

[arctic talon]

Veil is fun

[atomic pelican]

My LGS manager had some audiobook, I think it was some krieg book, and my only favorite parts were like, ork planes divebombing them which just sounds hilarious but is painted as some tragedy

[arctic talon]

I want books about her

[brittle slate]

hands down. I do wish she got a novel

[signal bramble]

The krieg book is interesting but the real focus of it is the big twist where you learn why the krieg always wear gas masks.

Sorry rebreathers

[brittle slate]

ooooo

spoiler?

[arctic talon]

The book sorta ruins what’s interesting about the death korp

Imo

[brittle slate]

I'm never going to get a chance to read the book

[arctic talon]

They’re clones

[brittle slate]

ah

[arctic talon]

Or rather a big chunk of them are

[brittle slate]

so the vitae wombs are just cloning vats

makes sense

[arctic talon]

It sorta takes away the fact that they were normally born and raised

[signal bramble]

Not just clones, they're almost all clones of Colonel Jurten, the guy that lead the Krieg loyalists in the first place.

[arctic talon]

But end up molded into like

[brittle slate]

ooooo

[arctic talon]

An absolutely detached person

[signal bramble]

He was against the cloning but when he died the tech priest claimed he was ok with it.

[arctic talon]

Imo it isn’t a good twist

[brittle slate]

well clones have always been problematic in terms of making a full human

[arctic talon]

But eh

Yeah

It takes away what made the dkok special imo

But that’s my opinion

[brittle slate]

i did prefer vitae wombs and they just make people

[arctic talon]

Imo I choose to think that

[brittle slate]

i share that

[arctic talon]

It’s a mix between clones

And actual born people

[signal bramble]

The kasrkin novel was alright since I love spec ops stuff and I thought it could have been a good guard book but near the end it goes absolutely off the rails and insane.

[arctic talon]

Kasrkin book is fun

It does turn batshit insane 100%

[brittle slate]

yeah, it was unlike any 40k book i've ever read

it was...

hm

[arctic talon]

Intresting

[brittle slate]

you know, it reminded me a lot of star wars