40k-lore-chat

[ruby sparrow]

Which makes it even funnier

[meager zinc]

Like they had to redact so many reports by hand they just stopped caring about it lol

[ruby sparrow]

Some inquisitors losing their fucking job

[meager zinc]

Nah hell just eliminate all the censors and destroy the sloppy reports

[deft sedge]

it's a good thing no one can read English

[deft sedge]

oof is that from GW too

[ruby sparrow]

Yes

[deft sedge]

that render looks like ass

they got an intern to make that in 15m in Blender

[meager zinc]

Eh its just for a joke

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2020/06/03/guardsman-of-the-week/ possibly because that image was also possibly canonicly doctored

[meager zinc]

Pose coulda been more screamy imo

[ruby sparrow]

The photos doctored

Theres a video on the page too

[deft sedge]

you're telling me this isn't an actual photograph of an Imperial Guardsman??

[ruby sparrow]

https://youtu.be/1dAjBlF7RtA

Yeah because the guardsmans mc fuckin dead

[meager zinc]

Oh ok well it doesnt look so bad as an animation

[ruby sparrow]

Certified "Sir Daniel Fortesque" moment

[deft sedge]

they love just slapping that post processing on all their shit huh

just eye assaulting

[meager zinc]

You do 3D work @deft sedge ?

[ruby sparrow]

Did my images just decide to not paot

[deft sedge]

no, I teach college

[meager zinc]

No we can see it

[ruby sparrow]

My discord lagged out

[meager zinc]

Yeah GW is just so behind all the other companies who are working on their IP in terms of 3D art

You cant blame them, its not really their focus

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2020/05/13/your-guide-to-machine-spirits/

[deft sedge]

if they're not to be blamed for their own terrible animations, who is? lol

[ruby sparrow]

Phhh...

[deft sedge]

I aint got anything personal against GW I like to slag them off because they're a multimillion dollar company making plastic toys

but it would be nice to see some better media

[deft sedge]

if only to make my stock go up lol

[meager zinc]

im assuming its what they've decided to invest their revenue in. Put it more into their toy manufacturing than into another 3d animation.

[ruby sparrow]

Note that "enemies" directly links to

[deft sedge]

something like 80% of the company is sales of physical goods so definitely

BL is less than 1% of their income

probably even less is their visual media

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2020/08/12/fill-in-the-blanks/

[junior delta]

favorite guard regiment. ReadyMove.

[ruby sparrow]

This is something for finding out if youre a blank

And we all know psykers and blanks dont mix well. At all

[barren tapir]

That is why it tell you to stand near them, if they panic when they see you then you are a blank, if they seems unaffected then you are not a blank

Funny enough that article was for the most part right

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2020/04/29/the-dos-and-donts-of-the-emperors-inquisition/

This could be a new shitpost format

[crimson dragon]

Considering how stuff begins existing in the warp if enough collective believes in it long enough, does the machine spirit exist now?

[barren tapir]

Yes, no, maybe... It is complicated

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Machine_spirit

This has all info about them

[crimson dragon]

So ill take that as a yes because warp fuckery and the worship of the machine spirit brought it to existence.

[barren tapir]

Well, not all, but many

[deft sedge]

what the machine spirit is is one of those fiddly things

is it a special extra 40k thing

is it a regular machine thing but they're all crazy religious

[deft sedge]

is it AI, etc

[astral whale]

I’m a firm believer in the theory of “Yes, No, and Everything inbetween” when it comes to the spiritual in 40k.

[deft sedge]

and also this is specifically for emotions or desires

[astral whale]

Is the Emperor a God? Yes, No, and everything inbetween.

[ruby sparrow]

The machine spirit is something which the techpriests wont let me talk about lest i want the nearest servo skull to turn into an ied

[crimson dragon]

Its also collective belief

[barren tapir]

A machine spirit is what the Imperium refers to as the inner workings and automated systems within their technology.

[crimson dragon]

Anything with consciousness

[ruby sparrow]

So its machinery and possibly computer parts

[crimson dragon]

Its like praying for your computer to run the game without lagging

[ruby sparrow]

Its "uh this isnt an ai its uh... machine spirit. Its not a computer. Its uh, machine spirit"

[barren tapir]

Yes, it is exactly that

It is autonomous systems

Like siri, or alexa

[deft sedge]

sometimes the author implies it's an actual AI or spiritual force inhabiting the machine after thousands of years of use

like land raiders that drive themselves

or titans

[ruby sparrow]

"My machine spirit possesses a rtx 3070000

[dusk patrol]

Also there’s a line between Artificial Intelligence like we think of it, and Abominable Intelligences

[crimson dragon]

Ill take the machine spirit as a processor

[dusk patrol]

Like they think in 40k

[barren tapir]

Those are Machine spirits that seems to have become autonomous yes

[dusk patrol]

They don’t not use computers

[ruby sparrow]

So warp fuckery?

[astral whale]

Think of the Mechanicus as Tech Druids worshipping the technicological equivalent of the Fey.

[crimson dragon]

They dont really understand AI. Emperor just doesnt wants fully artificial intelligence

Like the humans in daot had

[ruby sparrow]

It could be something like yokai bs but thats weeb talk

[barren tapir]

They also use computers, they are called cogitators lol

[astral whale]

It’s like Neutered ass AI.

[deft sedge]

at one point they were shards of the void dragon

big dumb

[ruby sparrow]

Youkai? Aeugh

[crimson dragon]

AI as in like the one in detroit become human

Game

[barren tapir]

Damn boy, you are digging up really old lore uh

[ruby sparrow]

Its like video game ai as opposed to sentient ai right

[deft sedge]

one day they'll dig up me 😭 out of the graveyard

[crimson dragon]

Are cogitators made with cogs

Powered by holy oils

Of the adeptus mechanicus

[deft sedge]

but yeah i'm out here posting about the Old 40K Shit

[barren tapir]

No, not really, they are just computers

[deft sedge]

being old and all

[astral whale]

No. They’re rudimentary computers

[ruby sparrow]

Like "machine knows to do this it does this. It performs these actions undrr these situations"

Machine spirit ai is like video game enemy "Ai"

[deft sedge]

Most machine-spirits are nevertheless crude, limited things, formed of chosen biological components kept alive in a synthetic chemical stew, then slave-linked to the systems they will spend eternity operating at the behest of inloaded programming. In an empire where artificial intelligence is unrivalled heresy, the creation of machine-spirits keeps the vital human spirit at the core of any automated process.```

Talon of Horus

it's cause Imperium uses wetware

(gross)

[ruby sparrow]

I mean wetware is pretty efficient

[crimson dragon]

I wonder if the techpriest's machine spirit get angry with them that sometimes their voice systems fail to work

[ruby sparrow]

Why build a quantum computer when you can use a convict

[crimson dragon]

So they're silent for a whole day

[deft sedge]

I submerged my PC in the nearby lake, you're just straight up wrong

[crimson dragon]

Or something

[crimson dragon]

A brain is technically a computer

A really good one at that

[crimson dragon]

Its a good processor

Ram

Harddrive

And graphics card

[barren tapir]

The advanced system consists of a combination of organic and mechanical components within the vehicle and in essence act as automated systems.

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah thats what i mean human brains might be outright quantum computers

[kind parrot]

Only rots away 😄

[crimson dragon]

Well computers do tend to break after a long time

[deft sedge]

i see information processing theory has made its way with your fragile head meat

[barren tapir]

Machine spirits can either be a blend of organic and machinery or fully machinery, for only fleshy things we have to look at the dark mechanicus

[ruby sparrow]

And also obsolescence

[deft sedge]

sad to see it infect academia

[kind parrot]

Yes but they are more accurate in computational skills then we are \

[ruby sparrow]

Anyways why build a computer when you can just use a convicts head as one

[kind parrot]

That is common punishment in W40K making a servitor or cogitator out from them

[ruby sparrow]

Thats my point

[crimson dragon]

Anyways servitors make good computers, all you need is a brain of a criminal and you now have yourself a 1000+TB storage and ram. Depending on their eyesight, you got yourself a good graphics card. You also have a good processor

Depending on their intelligence

Levels

If you got a criminal with the brains of einstein, imagine how much cores that has.

[ruby sparrow]

Ahahahahahah

[kind parrot]

Heretical way it would you would use more convict heads for certion tasks making it parralel 😄

[crimson dragon]

I wonder if the techpriests do this

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2020/03/11/grot-or-guardsman/

[kind parrot]

Well it would be heretical that is for sure

[crimson dragon]

Anyways uhh you just need to feed and throw the wastes of the servitor

[ruby sparrow]

The techpriests on mars are very secretive because they dont want us to find their rgb gaming servoskull amalgimations

[crimson dragon]

Unless you upgrade them to mechanical nutrients

[deft sedge]

mechanical nutrients

this man has solved world hunger

[crimson dragon]

Where electricity is converted to vitamins for the servitor

Or something like that

Cause i read somewhere, they have servitors who doesnt need to eat anymore but just takes batteries

Which convert the electricity to atp or something like that

[deft sedge]

😂

[kind parrot]

give this man a nobel prize he would solve world hunger real fast 😄

[crimson dragon]

Which makes me wonder, if they can do this for servitors. Why dont they outfit the entire human race with this. Solving galactic hunger. Guardsmen can also just eat their powerpacks

[deft sedge]

well what you describe is actually outfitted for the human race already

it's called "a stomach"

it digests solid matter into energy

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2020/03/04/dont-drink-the-mjod/

[deft sedge]

(don't @ me digestive system nerds)

[wet temple]

The guardsmen are worth more dead, as corpse starch for their fellow guardsmen

[crimson dragon]

Oh nvm i just mistook the opposite

[ruby sparrow]

These are all golden

[crimson dragon]

Servitors have machine and biological parts

Which both require fuel

[crimson dragon]

Aka food and mechanical fuel

Servitors can take implants where food digested gets converted into electricity

The glucose

Powers both the mechanical and the biological

My mistake

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2018/11/28/how-to-spot-an-abominable-intelligence/

[deft sedge]

hey x-01

nice

https://tenor.com/view/nice-click-nice-man-guy-gif-21933845

[crimson dragon]

do dark mechanicus use ai technology or do they use daemon engines more?

[storm jungle]

Daemons instead of AI

[crimson dragon]

Is it cause daemons are a better ai

[storm jungle]

No because they are under trademark rules to not do anything cool

[deft sedge]

LOL

[storm jungle]

so its in their contract to use daemons for anything

[crimson dragon]

Lol

[storm jungle]

Im not joking

[deft sedge]

literally daemons as programming

[storm jungle]

its literally why

[deft sedge]

scrapcode

[storm jungle]

^

Like its so fucking lazy lmao

"Can we do anything cool like actual chaos androids"

"best I can give you is daemon engines"

[deft sedge]

during 30k mars you'd just open up your compy to check the trade prices

BAM a daemon gets all up in your shit

it starts blaring your credit card number from every phone in a 24 km radius

justMarsThings

[crimson dragon]

Dark mechs joined rebellion because they had restrictions, how come. GW is so strict with their trademarks

[dusk patrol]

So the main issue is, Chaos corrupts

So it’s kinda hard to have just AI when you’re surrounded by corruption which is gonna possess it all

[deft sedge]

if you get the right patterns of 1s and 0s you accidentally summon Satan

[dusk patrol]

Also we have almost no like, Dark Mech characters

[crimson dragon]

Tzeench daemon

[dusk patrol]

Although they’re starting to add them

The main one being….

A daemon

[storm jungle]

Vastok?

Vashtor?

Vashingmachine?

what was his name

[deft sedge]

Vashtorr

2 r's

[storm jungle]

thats it

[deft sedge]

max copyright

[crimson dragon]

Is Vashtorr trying to be the machine god

[dusk patrol]

Vash deez nuts and bolts I believe is the paraphrase

[deft sedge]

the extra "r" is proven in market research to sell at least 200% more Vashtorrs

[dusk patrol]

He’s trying to be a god

[ruby sparrow]

Or if the ai might just decide "hry this chaos shit looks cool ima become a blood fueled machine with this khorne guy"

[deft sedge]

fr though they will release dark mechanicus eventually

prepare for lots of machines that look like bugs

[dusk patrol]

It’s in the pipeline

[crimson dragon]

Oh yeah do you guys think Lion El Johnson would wake up from his sleep because of the noise going on outside the fortress monastery

On the next books

[dusk patrol]

Lots of organic looking Ad Mech dudes

With scurry faces

[deft sedge]

the author?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Johnson

[crimson dragon]

No

Lion El Johnson the primarch

[crimson dragon]

I spelt wrong

[dusk patrol]

The setup for the Lion waking is all there if that’s what you’re asking

They just need to go for it

[deft sedge]

"The Fallen" in their function as a barely contained secret that could threaten the health of the Dark Angels are a reference to the barely contained secret in Johnson's poem Dark Angel which is the author's own repressed homosexuality threatened by Victorian society which, if revealed, would be his downfall

it's like poetry, it rhymes

[dusk patrol]

So, idk. He could, he might not. Who knows, not us.

[deft sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/george-lucas-its-poetry-rhymes-gif-19518899

fun fact Lionel Johnson was the subject of the love affair which would eventually be used to incriminate Oscar Wilde, with whom he had a passionate and public falling out

To rid the world of penitence:
Malicious Angel, who still dost
My soul such subtile violence!```

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2019/09/18/notice-for-immediate-retraction-of-medals/

[cosmic pecan]

orgyn best, best lore

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2019/07/31/escape-the-enforcers-join-the-guard/

https://regimental-standard.com/2019/07/10/talking-to-your-ogryn-about-heresy/

[junior agate]

how strong is psyker story wise

[sturdy nacelle]

I need a catch up with this guy in current lore

Anyone know what the Fallen are doing rn

Last I read of the Fallen they were leading the Dark Angels on a wild goose chase

[sturdy nacelle]

Depends on the class of Psyker

It could go from comedically weak to making Gandalf look like a weakling strong

Some Psykers can literally destroy a Space Marine without even them coming close

[deft sedge]

#40k-lore-chat message

[sturdy nacelle]

Ty

[deft sedge]

you're welcome

[ruby sparrow]

Some psykers cant do much, others might be able to tear apart spacetime on a major scale

[normal stream]

And their power levels can change over time.

[deft sedge]

wonder how the imp guard flogs people

probably with a cat o' nine

[dusk patrol]

Congregating, Luther has been forming them back together in the shadows

[junior agate]

@sturdy nacelleso how strong is the psyker we are playing in the game?

[dusk patrol]

But we haven’t gotten much more than that

[junior agate]

week? or middle?

[dusk patrol]

They’re definitely above average

Battle psykers are rare as is

Especially once’s with actually dangerous powers

[junior agate]

ok thanks

[dusk patrol]

They’re not absurdly powerful but definitely more towards the upper echelons Id say than your average astropath

[ruby sparrow]

Also context of that above post, the Regimental standard was briefly hijacked by orks

[rose thorn]

oh shit we getting ork combat doctrines ||/j||

[ruby sparrow]

I finally found it. The part of the guardsmens rules which state they have to use all the ammo

[crisp heath]

I was going to guess the Orks were responsible for that one penance, but they wouldn't care about the accuracy requirement

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah

Also keep in mind this shit is until stated otherwise, for the guard, actual advice

We finally know why vets take and instantly use all the fucking ammo

[sturdy nacelle]

Not Palpatine dangerous but I'd say as dangerous as an average wizard of the Harry Potter universe

[deft sedge]

you know it's canonical that before toilets were invented the wizards from HP would just shit their pants and disapparate the faeces to somewhere else?

[barren ether]

This makes me wanna smoke whatever JK Rowling was

Crack. She was smoking crack. It had to have been crack or she was popping some sort of benzo because wtf is that lore

[late pagoda]

Can anybody give me some information on the Phosphor Serpenta gun? I am mostly interested in:

• What are they capable of in terms of penetration and sheer strength
• Do they take a long time to reload? And are the bullets also very rare and not many are carried around usually?
• Other cool facts and things I should know about?

Any sort of information is greatly appreciated ^^, if you want to know why I am asking this, it is because a little RP campaign i am going to take part in and we want to know if these types of weapons are a little overtuned for what we want.

[signal bramble]

Phosphor is best described as a fire pistol in the codex.

It’s not a flamer, it shoots balls of fire.

[late pagoda]

How capable are they?
How rare is it to come upon their ammunition?
Do they take long to reload?

I'm sorry but I'm not quite versed on the Codex rules, do you mean tabletop? Or is there a codex for lore strength?

[signal bramble]

The 8th edition Admech codex goes heavier in to lore than the 9th.

[signal bramble]

Their damage isn’t that high but it does set the target on fire which the skitarii use to guide their shots not unlike the Tau marker lights.

It hits decent against armored targets but it does best on unarmored as any fire weapon would.

Their reload time is unknown as that’s not something the lore goes in to.

[late pagoda]

Mh, thanks a lot for the info. I was wondering about their strength and was a little concerned as many art depictions and or wiki's showed them giving traitor marines quite the problems.

[signal bramble]

Making phosphor weapons is also lost tech and not something the Admech knows how to do anymore. I believe they still know how to make the ammo.

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2018/10/03/introducin-ded-kunnin-taktiks/

[signal bramble]

@late pagoda Also. Since it shoots fire it’s unclear what the ammo actually is. It might not be physical ammo at all.

It could be a liquid if the gun is shooting fire.

[late pagoda]

I mean, they are called Phosphor weapons, so I assume they shoot Phosphor.

[signal bramble]

They might be using promethium or fyseline.

[signal bramble]

Probably a liquid then.

Phosphor is weaker derivative of phosphex. Phosphex could be best described as super napalm. Even the death guard was hesitant to use it because of how dangerous it was.

[late pagoda]

It is as I read also apparently sticky and then begins to burn through.

To show one wiki:
"The burning white spheres that shoot out from Phosphor Weapons cling tenaciously to their targets, sizzling wildly as they melt into flesh or burrow through armour and exoskeleton alike. More often than not, it is these luminagenic orbs that deal the death blow. Even if a target proves tough enough to survive the burning pain, the phosphorescent glow these spheres exude can guide an ally's volley to strike the same target."

[signal bramble]

That also points towards liquid.

[late pagoda]

Oh, so there is a difference between Phosphex and Phosphor I read it as that just the name changed.

[late pagoda]

Yee

[arctic talon]

Phosphor isn’t radioactive

[signal bramble]

No no. There is a massive difference.

[arctic talon]

Phosphex is

And also phosphex is like

Semi sentient

It hates you

[late pagoda]

Phosphex is radioactive? damn

[arctic talon]

Also phosphex isn’t hot

Technically

[signal bramble]

the Phosphex weapon stc was destroyed.

[arctic talon]

It’s corrosive

As well

Phosphex is literally the hell weapon

[late pagoda]

Alright, thank you. This'll help me a lot, since it means the weapon is not as crazy as I read it out to be, always gotta double check them wikis.

[signal bramble]

There’s nothing like a substance that eats through your armor and roasts you alive to make you rethink your decision of not joining the imperium.

[arctic talon]

Don’t forget it’s burning while being cold as hell

You get 2 sensations for the price of 1

[signal bramble]

happy Slaanesh noises

[arctic talon]

At least phosphex is “fast”

[scenic sun]

flames of tzeench moment

[ruby sparrow]

Behold. Ork engineering

[signal bramble]

I prefer the rokkit launcha. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a8/Boy_Rokkit_Launcha.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120811165949

[ruby sparrow]

Orks are just wonderful

[signal bramble]

Yes.

There’s the art.

[ruby sparrow]

They exist in a perpetual loop of "Its not stupid if it works" and "if it works at all, it still works"

[arctic talon]

Those just make you mutate horrifically while it happens

[ruby sparrow]

This is wonderful

Even the orks call lasguns laser pointers

[scenic sun]

aren't lassguns capable of killing an ork?

[ruby sparrow]

https://regimental-standard.com/2018/10/10/your-guide-to-dakka/

[scenic sun]

ik the meme of "haha flashlight" but they are NOT that usless right?

they can beat orks/lowly gaunts at least right?

[ruby sparrow]

Keep in mind this is essentially official gw shitposting.

Yeah no lasguns hit like a motherfucker especially when a lot are used at once

Its just that theyre not as loud as dakka iirc so to orks theyre probably weaker

[signal bramble]

A lasgun shot can blow your arm clean off.

It’s just underpowered compared to other stuff in the setting.

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah its like how a flintlock pistol doesnt really compare to an anti material rifle

[scenic sun]

yeah but an ork shot in the head by a lassgun will have a sudden realisation why they are so widespread most likely

maybe he doesn't die, but... who am i kidding it's an ork he'll enjoy it until the second/third shot kills him most likely

[ruby sparrow]

Nah they wont cuz if it shootz gooda it louda

Derefore volume of dakka or dakka adjacent weapon = firepower

Derefore if lazgun is quiet, iz pretty week

[scenic sun]

ork logic cannot be beaten clearly

[ruby sparrow]

Orks are just built different iirc

And their logic actually can apply itself to reality too

[scenic sun]

Ork belief field is very overplayed

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah because its funny

[scenic sun]

I doubt that a lassgun won't work properly on them no matter their belief, their grease on reality isn't that strong

[ruby sparrow]

Iirc most of their guns are by all understanding of firearms, physically incapable of working

That or theyre a case of "significantly advanced tech indistinguishable from magic"

[arctic talon]

They work just fine on them

Orks are just durable as hell

[ruby sparrow]

Wait a sec.

👀

[limpid swallow]

i was just thinking about the thunderhammer, what if it was like other warhammer lore and it would sweep on charged attack on non big or elite enemies, that would make it great for CC and it would be lore accurate and give it the buff it really does need.

[celest dome]

Wrong channel in a way

More suited for #theorycrafting

But yes

Force/Chain and the Hammer all could use some cleave on their special attack

[limpid swallow]

Agreed, desperately.

[dusk patrol]

Who looks at the titles of all these threads and deduces that lore is where they should talk about game mechanics

[limpid swallow]

it is lore accurate tho, if you look up about 40k weapons

[celest dome]

Sure, but it's not the correct channel

If you want to talk about how something should be portrayed in game to fit the lore, then #theorycrafting is the way to do it

Now there is a lot of content that doesn't fit theorycrafting in it atm but it's no reason to avalanche the mistakes

[deft sedge]

that would be great and enjoyable

thunder hammer desperately requires buffage

[fading bridge]

How do servitors get nutrition

[fading bridge]

"sound and fury, Signifying nothing"

[limpid swallow]

Yeah it really need's buffage, also it is lore accurate that's why its here and even if it was in #theorycrafting it would be completely ignored because i tryed putting it in before (10 times prior to here) and no one even made a reply on it at all even once so sorry if your not happy about me making a lore accurate comment in the #40k-lore-chat channel

[deft sedge]

my dude if someone redirects you who is not a mod you can feel safe in disregarding them IMO

[limpid swallow]

true 😄

[deft sedge]

“feel free to refer all complaints to [e-mail]”

[limpid swallow]

lol

[flat grove]

I got a question for you lot regarding admech lore. How long do you reckon a skitarii would live on average?

[ruby sparrow]

E to the power of Pi

[true sentinel]

The length of time it takes to annoy other members of the Imperium

[flat grove]

Fair enough,

[ruby sparrow]

About as long as it takes for the inquisitor to find their gaming-servoskull

[neat mulch]

Question for y'all: One of the lines the Loner Psyker yells while using their combat ability is "By the Five!", does anyone know what The Five is?

[deft sedge]

maybe the five most common psyker domains?

or disciplines

biomancy etc

[neat mulch]

Ah that might make sense. I wasn't sure if it was a reference to something or someone

[kind parrot]

can someone correct me that this is bad englihs

No man Died in the emperor's service that died in vain should be No man died in the emperor's service in vain

it has no meaning with that died

[deft sedge]

it should be whom

technically it’s grammatically correct

just not common parlance

[broken echo]

What the hell are the league of votan? Are they abhumans? A different species to humans entirely? I've tried to find lore on them and I've ended up pretty empty handed

[deft sedge]

no (negation) man (n) died (v, ps) in the Emperor’s service (pp location) that (relative pronoun) died (v ps) in vain (adv)

source i teach

it’s just a passive sentence

[kind parrot]

but it's so wierd man

[deft sedge]

its just formal placement of the relative clause

its unusual / marked but not technically incorrect

[fading bridge]

short muscular abhumans with an AI overlord

[broken echo]

Ai overlord?

Now that. That intrigues me

[fading bridge]

they're trying to keep an ancient AI operational and secret

because you know, heresy

[signal bramble]

They’re Abhumans but they follow ancient AI computers known as Votann. These computers contain old stc’s and data from thousands of years.

However, the Votann are so old and full of knowledge they’re starting to break down.

[fading bridge]

just clear system 32

[signal bramble]

They don’t know how!

[broken echo]

Hmmm. Sounds like the votan have a good place amongst my top 5, maybe even top 3, favourite factions

[signal bramble]

humanity was an advanced society that fell in to decay. The leagues are an advanced society that is starting to decay.

[atomic pelican]

What being 3ft tall does to one

[spark forge]

I thought they were an advanced society that fell and got up

[broken echo]

Do they still work for the imperium though? Also how is the relationship between them and the adeptus mechanicus?

[spark forge]

The leagues I mean

[deft sedge]

dwarfs in space but the dammaz kron is now a computer not a book

[broken echo]

So the book of grudges became a word document of grudges

[deft sedge]

basically

on tabletop strong

[signal bramble]

No the Votann are still advanced.

[signal bramble]

Yes to the imperium but they hate the Admech.

They think the Admech hoarding knows without using it is a waste and their religious stuff is a bunch of nonsense.

As for how they work with the imperium, most of the leagues are very mercenary in their approach. They’ll work for pay/resources.

[broken echo]

I guess for the same reason the necrons hate the admech? Can't get their hands (mechadendrites) off other peoples tech

[signal bramble]

No because they think the Admech are stupid and inefficient.

[broken echo]

fair enough

[signal bramble]

And their tech religion is a bunch of nonsense.

The Votann are described as ultra capitalist in their codex. If you have something they want, they’ll make a deal, if you refuse, they’ll take it by force.

Sometimes they’ll take it by force anyway.

[broken echo]

I don't wish to speak heresy against the glory of the omnissiah... but splashing "holy water" on sensitive electrical equipment does not seem like a great idea

[signal bramble]

If you don’t have anything they want and don’t cause trouble they’re happy to leave you alone.

They’re live and let live unless they want your stuff. >_>

If they can take it, it means you were weak and didn’t deserve it anyway.

[deft sedge]

each votann is Ayn Rand

confirmed

[broken echo]

1: AI overlords
2: Ultra capitalist
3: Mercenary approach
Okay these lot are definitely going amongst my top 3 favourite factions

[signal bramble]

They are willing to make a deal if taking something by force wouldn’t be efficient.

If it’s .1% more efficient to just take it, that’s what they’ll do.

Cost/benefit to everything. XD

[deft sedge]

I don’t understand your reply

you want to take Ayn Rand by force??

sickening

[signal bramble]

_>

But anyway, the leagues are pretty cool. The codex has some really interesting lore but not enough as is common with all the 9th edition codexes.

But so it goes.

[atomic pelican]

Tbf its a rulebook

[signal bramble]

The 8th edition codexes had pages upon pages of lore going in to detail about each unit.

[atomic pelican]

Probably better not to have lore in them, thus the ppl who dont care abt the game dont need them

Yeah Ik

Theyve been dividing the lore and rules stuff recently. Such as the Arks books since no one wants to buy 3 books for rules

[signal bramble]

The Votann, being a completely new faction, should have had more lore in it for that reason alone.

Yeah I know squats were a thing but the new lore is drastically different.

[deft sedge]

gw and awful book policy, name a more iconic duo

[atomic pelican]

Also, I would still say 9e codexs still have summarizing lore and themes. Just not as many tiny stories. Usually 2 big cover stories tho

CSM and GSC both had better lore entries than their 8e cohorts. Mostly through entire short stories in them

[signal bramble]

The 8th edition really went in to detail about each unit and it’s battlefield purpose.

[weak fossil]

The Votan are kind of a superintelligent AI unit that uses fleshy human clones to do the manual labour, which makes a lot more sense than having superintelligent ai doing the bidding of humans for some reason.

[signal bramble]

The 9th edition really just have the lore blurbs on the data sheet.

[broken echo]

I thought clones in the 40k universe are inherently "flawed" due to lacking souls of the original. Does the leagues of votan being clones mean that they have some sort of major issue?

[signal bramble]

The Votann tech is way more advanced than the imperium.

also it’s not cloning like you’re thinking.

[atomic pelican]

Yea there are other factions who 'clone' and dont fuckup

[signal bramble]

The Votann use specific genetic templates to create each space dwarf for a specific purpose.

[atomic pelican]

Drukhari, sort of. But its more a revival 'clone' I suppose

[broken echo]

Like the tyranids?

[signal bramble]

Sort of. But it’s more for labor or combat or crafting etc.

[atomic pelican]

Oh wait nvm, drukhari just do straight up produce new drukhari, forgot about the lowborn

[signal bramble]

And rather than constantly optimizing each strain they have the templates they use.

[weak fossil]

I didn't know about the soul issue for clones. So the krieg are flawed?

I don't know of any problems with the the Votan, other than their AIs having a warp presence being kind of novel

[signal bramble]

You also forgot about the Trueborn who are naturally born from the high ranks to.

[signal bramble]

Not exactly.

[atomic pelican]

No I remember them

They arent vatborn tho

As the name implies

[signal bramble]

It’s one of those things where the clones are subject to what the author says.

Sometimes it’s controversial. Sometimes they’re cool with it.

In The Great Work we learn it’s all clones on Mars as they gave up natural childbirth ages ago.

In the krieg novel and old imperial armour compendium that introduced the krieg it’s stated to be an issue.

[broken echo]

From what I've heard clones have been less effective than their originals. Take the admech trying to use clones to produce katachan destroyers, it doesn't work as the clones are incapable of properly bonding with the machine spirit. Or (If I remember correctly) there was once a horus clone who was no where near as dangerous as the original since it wasn't horus, just a clone of horus.

Which is why I thought trazyn having a perfect clone of fulgrim was so shocking

[signal bramble]

This was Fabius and he is leagues ahead of imperium tech today.

[weak fossil]

Yeah, Fabulous Bile did a bunch of flawed cloning, but I thought that was more because he was trying to clone Primarchs and the Emperor had to do some real tricky stuff to create them. Also he did manage to make a perfect clone of Fulgrim who was the same in every way, but wouldn't turn traitor because he didn't have his stupid sexy slaanesh sword

[broken echo]

I wonder how the other primarchs would react if clone fulgrim was released from trazyns collection

[signal bramble]

Perfect replica of an exclusive first edition primarch.

Limited edition to.

[broken echo]

They'd either welcome their brother with open arms or an open firing range

"Magical powers of shootin' yer own boyz"

[weak fossil]

That's beautiful 🙂

[broken echo]

I need to see an ork pretending to be a commisar

[weak fossil]

Bit sad they killed off Yarrick. I hope Gork and Mork bring him back.

[broken echo]

Do they have other AI? Or just the Ai Overlord things

[signal bramble]

They have an ai targeting system called HunTR or something like that.

[weak fossil]

The imperium's tanks have AI in them. There's AI everywhere in 40k. They're just not titan-shaped. Except the ones that are. I don't know.

[signal bramble]

And certain computer systems that grow powerful enough AI can be elevated to a new Votann.

[broken echo]

Either yarrik comes back because the orks don't believe old one eyez dead, or there's going to be a really solemn and kind of wholesome battle of orks (Ghazkull) vs whoever killed yarrick. Maybe humans and orks working together to mess up angron

[signal bramble]

I forget the exact name of the things since I don’t have the codex in front of me but I can check when I get home.

[timid ferry]

My bet is his death will kick off an ork vs chaos grudge match. Rumor is Angron killed him. Ghazghkull will want some payback for the death of his best “friend”

Maybe we will get a boxed set 🙏

[weak fossil]

That'd be pretty awesome, really

[broken echo]

I have a feeling that this whole ork vs chaos conflict will result in the return of the krork. That would be phenomenal

[weak fossil]

Maybe Tuska can bust out of Khorne's domain through one of the warp portals and join in the fun

[broken echo]

I can imagine tuska will definitely pop up somewhere, but will probably stay in khornes realm.

Maybe khorne summons tuska into the battlefields just to spice things up

[signal bramble]

We never got confirmation. The only “proof” is one of the skulls on the Angron model.

[broken echo]

I'm sorry what

[signal bramble]

It would mean an entire Khorne invasion happened on Armageddon again off screen.

[signal bramble]

Hang on.

[broken echo]

I thought it was because there were orks visible in the background of a lot of khorne stuff as of late

[ruby sparrow]

Regimental standard is basically an official shitpost

[signal bramble]

Note the eye.

[broken echo]

There are a couple orks in the background and I'm fairly certain this was official GW marketing (except for yarrik right there...)

[weak fossil]

That's an astartes skull

[broken echo]

OH

[weak fossil]

Isn't it the Astartes that put the little pips in their forehead for each century served?

[signal bramble]

same eye same location.

[ruby sparrow]

Oooh shit i just read the tos of the site gw is going to kill me

[weak fossil]

Seems more likely that a space marine needed a prosthetic eye than that a commissar decided to start putting pips in his forehead

[signal bramble]

I didn’t say I agree. That’s just what started the theory.

That rather than service studs those were part of the mechanism holding it in place.

[spark compass]

so as someone relatively new to the 40k universe (been a big fan of fantasy for a while) i just went down a 3 hour lore dive into cadia last night inspired by my Vet. Any other major engagements i should read about?

[signal bramble]

Khorne invading Terra.

The plague war in ultramar.

The Damocles gulf is pretty cool.

The Octarius war.

[broken echo]

The war in heaven perhaps?

[ruby sparrow]

<@&735928989146939404> i may have done a fucky wucky with gw terms of service and need to delete a lot of images

[spark compass]

cool cool. thanks friends

[odd tulip]

hwat

[ruby sparrow]

I posted images from the wh community website because funny. Never claimed to have made them but uh. Apparently saving these images and sharing them violates the site tos

[brittle slate]

The three studs would make that a space marine

[ruby sparrow]

Which i didnt fucking realize until right now

[brittle slate]

and i'm just... stupidly repeating

[ruby sparrow]

Whiiich is a problem because i found those images funny and i posted them. A lot

[brittle slate]

one and two*

[ruby sparrow]

Uh. How fucked am i

[odd tulip]

I mean... not at all

nobodies gunna enforce that

[ruby sparrow]

Im actually startinf to- what. Is gw fine with me using it for shitpost?

[odd tulip]

don't post em here cuz we're under licence from GW, but they're not gunna send a lawyer after you

[broken echo]

I'd say 50/50 for tau response or space marine response.

[signal bramble]

I don’t think GW will even notice since you’re not using them commercially.

[ruby sparrow]

I... already did is the problem. Which is why i need help deleting them. I link the proper websites, which are publicly available

[broken echo]

Either it'll go completely smoothly and peacefully, or someone will scream bloody heresy and come charging

[ruby sparrow]

Its not like im pirating a book

[signal bramble]

I think you’re fine.

[broken echo]

Should be fine

[odd tulip]

Eh. I wont tell if you dont

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah if gw has a problem with this feel free to delet.

[broken echo]

Let's all do what Tzeentch would do right now. Lie about what happened

[odd tulip]

The literal absolute worst case is some low-level GW shmuck tells Aqshy to keep WarComm stuff out of here. Woopdy fkn doo

[broken echo]

Something wrong is happening? Noooo just some silly chit chat

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah i mean the images are publicly accessible

[weak fossil]

They only go after content creators that get popular. Either to hire them or to bully them into shutting down.

I don't think even they would go after people for copy/pasting links to images on their public website around. Pretty sure that'd fall under fair use.

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah fair

[odd tulip]

You wouldnt rightlick save an NFT GW officially licensed image riiiight?~

[storm jungle]

The only thing we don't approve of is posting pirated content like codexes/books.

Community page stuff is literally on the internet on their own shit

you aint violating anything

[ruby sparrow]

Yeah their tos was just angry looking

[storm jungle]

Thats how most companies are

ignore it

[ruby sparrow]

Sorry. Had a panic response

[gusty sequoia]

when we well see warhammer 50k

[signal bramble]

James workshop can be pretty petty at times but posting some images in a discord is something beneath their notice.

[signal bramble]

Hopefully never.

Warhammer fantasy end times was awful. The last thing 40k needs is that.

[weak fossil]

You can do it now. Just field nid armies on ruins maps.

[ruby sparrow]

Or ork armies on a terra map

[gusty sequoia]

well its going to happen some point 40k well end

[ruby sparrow]

Warhammer 41k

[weak fossil]

Or if the crons get their warp nullifier done, just crons bickering eternally in a totally mundane galaxy, above the bones of the other species.

[ruby sparrow]

Wh50k is just the space tomb kings crons alarm clocks finally going off

[gusty sequoia]

well warhammer well truly end when disney see it 😂

[ruby sparrow]

Disney must not get their karking hands on warhammer

[deft sedge]

50k is the Old World

[ruby sparrow]

And if they already have it it should be pried from their hands

[deft sedge]

and we come full circle

[deft sedge]

dont worry it’s not lucrative enough for the Mouse lol

[ruby sparrow]

50k returns to warhammer fantasy with some remnants of 40k tech and the occasional 40k unit

That would be fucking cool actually

[fading bridge]

https://external-preview.redd.it/1QQ0-Cok42JXj_0Y-VSYc9myHt9vMPDcIsTnGyWAyig.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1c76db9fd0b539dab014e0918c30914dbfaca8c8

[ruby sparrow]

Heresy of the highest fucking order

[deft sedge]

looks great tbh they should make models

[ruby sparrow]

Im more worried theyll somehow try to make it less political and more lowest common denominator friendly

[deft sedge]

would be a sweet kitbash lmao

[fading bridge]

would mermaids be abhuman or mutant

[ruby sparrow]

Fuckin mutie

[brittle slate]

think that was cancelled

it was heading that way then they changed gears

then realized they messed up and did a huge retcon

and here we are

[deft sedge]

they flailin

[scenic sun]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/696013528347312189/1049392252583166012/ezgif-3-baf7efec8a.gif

[fading bridge]

warhammer 50k is just a galaxy of rubble after the tyranid buffet

[late pagoda]

Or necron supremacy

[fading bridge]

eternal spooky slumber party

[ruby sparrow]

I really like the idea of warhammer 50k looping back to warhammer 40k but its some sort of post mass galactic civilization collapse

But with signs of 40k tech around

[timid ferry]

Celestine is total Disney Princess material

Also, gentle reminder. Xenomorph Queen is technically a Disney Princess

[ruby sparrow]

Heresy

Disney are operatives of chaos

[gusty sequoia]

did someone say hereay for emperor

[midnight ore]

im picturing abaddon singing like a disney princess dancing around on the ruined cadia

if you wish upon a blackstone fortress

[midnight ore]

💀

[timid ferry]

I can imagine this with genestealers 💀

[last lagoon]

Hear me out

[midnight ore]

nahhh bro

instead of doing chores to go to the ball stealerella is planting seeds of corruption to devour an entire planet

[gusty sequoia]

im going to read warhammer 40k comic nade by marvel bye

[arctic talon]

Abhuman

There’s a mermaid like abhuman race

But they’re super muscular and have scales lol

[crimson dragon]

I wonder, why are feudal and feral worlds not given technology to raise their civilization by the imperium

I understand feral worlds

But feudal worlds would sort of understand them by now

[ruby sparrow]

Because the feudal worlds are better at the whole religious zeal and theocracy than they are

[crimson dragon]

I see

[arctic talon]

Also because feudal worlds offer disposable loyal meat

[ruby sparrow]

That wasnt serious

[crimson dragon]

I know

[arctic talon]

And also food

[crimson dragon]

Agri worlds are more efficient no?

[arctic talon]

Feudal worlds are usually lower level agri worlds

[ruby sparrow]

They offer veggies and meat and function as agri worlds

[arctic talon]

Yeah but it helps to have a feudal world close by

[crimson dragon]

Also what would a feudal or feral worlds PDF be like

[arctic talon]

Prolly actual las weaponry

[crimson dragon]

To turn into an agri world?

[arctic talon]

No

[ruby sparrow]

Bunch of knights with guns or tribes with guns

[arctic talon]

Agri worlds ship most of their food super far away

[crimson dragon]

I heard some pdf's use these thing called laslocks

[arctic talon]

Feudal worlds in 40k

[crimson dragon]

Lol

[arctic talon]

Are a weird mix of literal medival tech

[crimson dragon]

Lol

[crisp heath]

Ferals tend to be too dangerous for colonization by nonlocals, Feudals have nobility that don’t want to break the traditional order.

[arctic talon]

And advanced tech out of our world

[ruby sparrow]

So theyre medieval and modern

[arctic talon]

That we literally can’t comprehend

[ruby sparrow]

Wait isnt that tech heresy

[arctic talon]

Most Knight worlds are feudal

Remember that lol

[crimson dragon]

Oh ok, still doesnt make sense feudal worlds never advance in technology atleast

[arctic talon]

They are both super advanced

And backwards as hell

[crimson dragon]

Oh ok

[ruby sparrow]

Because they lack rnd and scientific progress

[crimson dragon]

So like Bretonnia

[arctic talon]

Less awful

But yes

[ruby sparrow]

Less french

[crimson dragon]

Lol

[crisp heath]

Feudal worlds are like Arkansas, a central city with feeder farm towns and lots of decentralization, not necessarily low tech

[arctic talon]

But a feudal world soldier would prolly know what a las weapon is

[crimson dragon]

I wonder if were gonna get a world based off of Bretonnia

[crisp heath]

Feudals are like inverse hive worlds

[crimson dragon]

With french imperial guard regiment

[ruby sparrow]

I wonder if theres a japan styled feudal world

[crimson dragon]

There is

Apparently

[ruby sparrow]

Makes sense

[crimson dragon]

I need to find it real quick

[crisp heath]

Like if Hives are DENSITY, Civilized worlds are today’s Earth, Feudals are maximizing human settlement over the whole planet and minimizing urbanism

[ruby sparrow]

Also reminder that the end of the edo period was in the mid 19th century (1867 being an important year iirc)

[arctic talon]

also for context this is our only example of a feudal world soldier

Yeah its from Dawn of War 3

but they're from a feudal world

[crisp heath]

Lots of this stuff follows DAOT trends mind you not modern ones

[ruby sparrow]

So basicly spreading people out instead of "oops all population in one city"

[arctic talon]

there's also canon samurai marines

they're neat

[crisp heath]

40k settlements are built on the systems of DAOT worlds usually so they’re as advanced as their foundations not necessarily the Imperium’s tech level overall

[arctic talon]

Showed up in white dwarf

Wrong chat lol

[tender roost]

ohs poop sorry

[arctic talon]

lol

[crimson dragon]

Cant find it

I swear I saw one

[crimson dragon]

Wouldn't that be an industrial world

Oh there's a planet called Izanagi in the Yamato system. Im gonna guess there's the Japanese styled imperial guards

In the book called Iron Inferno

They fight orks

[signal bramble]

Feudal worlds are depicted as medieval Europe almost but with some imperial tech kept at a minimum.

If it’s a feudal agri world then entire continents will be devoted to producing tithes to the imperium.

[deft sedge]

ah dawn of war 3

the best dawn of war game? arguably

the best 40k game? certainly

[mossy mortar]

Yeah there's a good short story where they have a world lkke that where people still ride carriages around but the governor's household troops have laslocks and rhe high official had a little brass "golem" that writes down what you say

[deft sedge]

nonexistent

[arctic talon]

Doesn’t exist

[mossy mortar]

Sugmar

No

[dusk patrol]

No

[mossy mortar]

If only

[dusk patrol]

There’s only a loose connection in some aspects

Like the gods, and they’re not the same

[mossy mortar]

Sigmar is a lost primarch

[dusk patrol]

It’s just a sharing of names and motifs

[mossy mortar]

And bitz

[dusk patrol]

They’re different in a lot of other ways

[arctic talon]

Die

[mossy mortar]

Lots of bitz

[deft sedge]

ulric = leman russ

[mossy mortar]

https://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/b/brothers-of-the-snake-softback.pdf

[uncut plover]

I thought I would share this with you guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-4zd3dap7I

[deft sedge]

how could you just post the book

you wouldn’t download a car

https://tenor.com/view/piracy-download-a-car-piracy-its-a-crime-download-a-handbag-download-a-computer-gif-17133478

[arctic talon]

That’s free officially iirc

[deft sedge]

i’m joking lmao, it’s 26 pages

[arctic talon]

My brain is smooth

[deft sedge]

you need sulci

thats where the think meat is

[mossy mortar]

It's just a sample

[mossy mortar]

I actually want that car

I love me those old 80s Mercedes

"Built to a standard, not a price"

[deft sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/what-steve-brule-gif-11332832

you might as well just copy and paste the whole book

[maiden finch]

I hear the characters discuss some policy or event where the commander NPC says something like "It made the imperium be a bad half, and then an even worse half" What are they talking about excactly?

[crisp heath]

Cicatrix Maledictum

[quasi wagon]

Yeah, split of the imperium

Because of the eye of terror spread over half of the galexy

[rain peak]

Do you still get popped when you See Grey Knights or did they Changed it?

Heard somewhere that guardsmen and others are now allowed to See them since guilleman Took over

[dusk patrol]

They don’t really care much anymore

Also, they were always allowed to see Grey Knights, it depended on the scenario

Like some Grey Astartes show up and kill a cult leader for some reason? Whatever, you don’t know the significance and he’s probably the first Astartes you’ve ever seen

A daemon Prince ascends on the world you’re fighting on, it rains blood and some marines show up to kill it?

Well you’re probably tainted so dead you go

Basically they tended to kill or mindwipe those who would realize their significance, like higher ranking military dudes or Astartes, and who may have been corrupted by what they fought.

[signal bramble]

The Gk are usually called in to stop a daemonic incursion when it’s already happened.

The inquisition actively tries to prevent that from happening in the first place.

[arctic talon]

Yeah if the GK show up 9 times out of 10 shit is fucked beyond all belief

[vast trench]

I think its less a lore change and more inconsistency.

[rose thorn]

Oh yeah i wanted to say it’s super cool that Luther revealed that anyone can learn pyker powers with enough time and effort, but the imperium hides it and says only pykers can do it

Which honestly make complete scenes lmao

And every fucking xenos species happens to have a natural connection to the warp except the species that literally doesn’t have a soul

It makes sense humans would have a natural connection too

[signal bramble]

It was more like warp rituals and daemon summoning.

[rose thorn]

He was casting black fire and such though

Being born a pyker is probably 100 times better then doing it naturally but it’s still possible

[signal bramble]

He received blessings from the gods though.

[acoustic copper]

Anyone can learn sorcery (channelling warp energy through rituals), not anyone can be psychic (channelling warp energy through your brain due to a genetic mutation), and some psykers also do sorcery, which they tend to be better at because they're able to tap into more power

[brittle slate]

also, off topic, but i finally figured out where the whole female space marines come from- it's basically proto modern sisters of battle lore

and this isn't to kick off that conversation, I just was going through old books and found this

pretty cool how old lore is a well referenced resource for new

[acoustic copper]

That's a fan submission from Challenge magazine number 36, not a GW publication

[brittle slate]

I just found it in inferno

[acoustic copper]

You can buy it on drivethruRPG

[brittle slate]

sure, but inferno is a BL publication

[acoustic copper]

Which issue of inferno

[brittle slate]

brb

[acoustic copper]

I ask because that GDW in the top left hand corner stands for Game Designer's Workshop, which was an old RPG company and not the same as GW, and I'm looking at the Challenge mag article right now, but I'm happy to look through Inferno mag as well

(also Inferno used a two column layout for their articles, not 3, but I haven't read through all it in a looooong time)

there's the original magazine btw, it's worth getting just to understand the context of the article https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/87197/CHALLENGE-Magazine-No-36

the next issue has Imperial Undead Space Marines 😆

any luck?

[brittle slate]

It wasn't inferno, citadel journal spring of 87 issue and wd issue 112 apr 1989. I have a compilation from that site that used to bundle it and they stacked the images, that's my mistake because there's a disclaimer that GW just licensed GDW with their IP

That said though, what's in the document is that these ladies were then made:

[acoustic copper]

nice totally-not-dredd-inspired eagle pad

[brittle slate]

So, to correct myself- Sunstroke was licensed by GW to GDW but then they had two short stories where the Death Eagle Space Marines reference the Sisters of Purification

[brittle slate]

BL was publishing 2000AD at the time I'm pretty sure

[acoustic copper]

BL didn't exist at the time

[brittle slate]

Didn't it just come out of BF?

Citadel*

[acoustic copper]

the death eagles were released in 1989, Black library didn't start till 1997

[brittle slate]

But wasn't BL just a reimagining?

[acoustic copper]

Citadel made some dredd minis under license, but GE never had the publishing rights to 2000AD

[brittle slate]

from Citadel? After it got bought by GW?

I'm doing this off of memory

[acoustic copper]

Citadel makes miniatures (hence the full name Citadel Miniatures), they got the 2000AD license for some minis back in the 80s, but that's a completely separate thing from BL, formed in the 90s to publish novels

[brittle slate]

But then who was publishing WD?

[acoustic copper]

Games Workshop, before the merger

[brittle slate]

got it

[brittle slate]

and the boob armor

[acoustic copper]

looks like pecs to me

[brittle slate]

Upper left?

Those are... some curvy pecs

[acoustic copper]

or some very flat & wide boobs

just looking through the WD when they were released now to see if it says anything

nope, literally just that pic. very helpful GW

oh hey someone actually has other angle pics of them. Looks like just "well defined pec armour" to me, especially as during this period of citadel if they were female they'd be jutting out like torpedoes, but there's room for disagreement there

thanks for bringing them up though, I'd never heard of them before (apparently they were released for Games Day? I didn't know they had GD minis back then!). Always handy to know where the female marines debate is gonna come from

[brittle slate]

I think Gamesday goes all the way back to the 70's

yeah, '75

[acoustic copper]

yeah, but I don't know when they started making special minis for it

still, I think you may have found the most compelling evidence so far for having FSM in rogue trader. Most of the time people bring out Sister Sin (who is a sister of battle, and in the sister of battle section of the RT rulebook), Sunspot (Challenge magazine) and the models in power armour (which were adventurers, not Space Marines).

[digital salmon]

Hey peeps. When it comes to the class archetypes and their purpose in the Imperium, guardsmen, ogryn and psykers are all clear as day, but when it comes to the zealot class... what are they? What purpose do they serve? Are they just a different type of unit in Astra Militarum?

[celest dome]

They are not always part of the Imperial Guard, the archetype serve to show different groups that can become classes later

If the Vet is going to be the Scion, Stormtroopers, Officer, Brawler and even possibly a Commissar
Then the Zealot is the Religious fanatic, so Redemptionist, Crusader, Death Cult Assassins...

[digital salmon]

Hmm, I see. I was more thinking as:
Vet is your regular Imperial Guardsman
Ogryn is your typical shock troop kind of dude
Psyker is, well, your typical psyker, with some apparent combat experience
Zealot is... what?

Never heard of them in 40k

[crisp heath]

Big E fanboys

[celest dome]

Basically you can look at this list

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Acolyte#Hierophant

[digital salmon]

I was wondering your typical zealot is basically anyone, even a guardsman, who is absolutely zealous about the Emperor. That they are not specifically trained, into being zealots. They just... are. But I suppose the likes of Death Cult Assassins and so on make more sense..?

[celest dome]

Yes that what they are

[acoustic copper]

They're religious fanatics, not really part of any formal structure but they tend to take up arms and follow crusades to fight for the Emperor

[celest dome]

The Archetype is vague to en globe a load of people

House Cawdor in Necromunda is basically all Zealot

[digital salmon]

What about the Zealot-specific weapons? Do they play any role in this, or is it just purely gameplay thing? In other words.. Do they reflect anything?

[acoustic copper]

Because everything in the imperium is steeped in the language of faith and belief, when the imperium goes to war its not just a war its a holy war, so you get pilgrims and hangers-on who go along

They tend to use chain & flame weapons

[celest dome]

The Flamer is used by Vet in lore and table top, but the Evicerator is exclusively used by Repentia, other SoB and zealots

[digital salmon]

Okay, these answers were definitely helpful, both of you guys, thank you.

[acoustic copper]

But there's no requirement for them to do so. Because there's no formal structure to them, there's no organisation handing out standard issue weaponry. A zealot will use whatever they can get hold of but because they're fanatics they tend to steer towards close range weaponry, and chainswords and flamers have a thematic connection with holiness

[digital salmon]

this is actually something I have imagined at first. Just some random preacher from some hive world, taking up arms.

but it felt.. kinda out-of-line, compared to the other 3 classes

[acoustic copper]

That's pretty much it. Not even necessarily a preacher, just some dude overcome with the desire to serve the Emperor and crush his foes

[digital salmon]

The other 3 classes feel more "formal" with actual training, seemingly. That's why I was wondering if the zealot is behind any official organisation that has also provided training. Probably not, though.

As per your answers.

[acoustic copper]

The other three are part of organisations, the zealot is a random person

Well, were part, anyway

[feral agate]

Zealots are basically just civilians who are really zealous about their faith.

[acoustic copper]

Like the people flying over to Ukraine because they believe in the cause, but more religious and burny

[rain burrow]

Look for 2 heresy players

[digital salmon]

That's actually a well put analogy.

[rain burrow]

IGN and steam is " Moon "

[digital salmon]

wrong chat?

[rain burrow]

which one do i go to

[digital salmon]

#vox-lfg-lexicanum

[rain burrow]

thanks

[digital salmon]

have fun!

[rain burrow]

quick question

How do i become allowed to post on it?

[digital salmon]

the channels below it are for the specific regions. I sent you the lexicanum so you can read and choose whichever you need according to your region.

[acoustic copper]

Seems pretty self explanatory

[spiral loom]

So was anyone as caught off guard as I, that a bunch of rejects are allowed customized boltors specifically designed to be used by non-astartes?

[celest dome]

Not really

[acoustic copper]

Nope

[celest dome]

We get them at sorta high trust already

It's not like we get them on the first day sort of thing

Same for Power Swords

[acoustic copper]

Human scale bolters have been a thing forever and we're working for the Inquisition

Honestly I'm more surprised by the grenadier gauntlet

And the ripper gun is supposed to fire in bursts

[celest dome]

Depend on the pattern

As always

[spiral loom]

My point being, that in the lore human sized bottoms are supposed to be very rare and only allowed to a very selective amount of sergeants. Like, there are far more notable individuals than us that don't have the clearance to use a Bolton and than confuses me. Not complaining or anything. I felt it was a valid point to bring up

[celest dome]

I think the Grenadier Gauntlet work under the same pretense the plasma gun does, the Vet and the Ogryn have been trained to use them in the Imperial Guard

[spiral loom]

Boltors* not bottoms....Jesus christ

[celest dome]

Hive Gangers often have Bolters

Using a Bolter isn't charged religiously, it's just that ammo is hard to get by so they don't issue it to many people

[acoustic copper]

They're really not that rare, but they are hard to maintain so tend to be more used as status symbols than practical weapons, outside of specially trained organisations

A sister of battle or an Arbitrator will be trained to strip down and maintain their bolters so they can be deployed in numbers, but if you give a regiment of guardsmen bolters then you have to train them how to maintain them, set up supply lines for bolts, all that hassle. Much easier if just the officers get them

[spiral loom]

Ok, I can get behind that

[full bane]

Note the pattern of Bolter we're using Locke pattern stuff is often used by the Arbites

If the riot police (absolutely massive reduction of what the Arbites actually are) and hive gangers get bolters, what's stopping the Inquisitors personal army of convicts.

[acoustic copper]

kinda nice that they're pulling stuff from the RPGs

[full bane]

It's one of the most comprehensive views into the universe at the ground level tbf.

Even if the wider stuff about the Calixis sector and things within it almost never get referenced

[acoustic copper]

oh yeah I agree, the RPGs are great sources for info

[weak onyx]

Anyone got a good place i can get all the lore.
Like videos? but not some boring monotone voiced guy reading?

[spark relic]

You could try the Lexicanum website if you want to take it at your own pace

[celest dome]

luetin made some video for Darktide

[weak onyx]

im looking for like whole 40K universe.

[weak onyx]

alright

[celest dome]

he also made some more generalist video

[lucid iron]

I've watched a lot of Luetin, Weshammer, Majorkill, those are 3 of the better channels with wildly different styles, they are some of the more interesting less monotone presenters

Luetin and Weshammer both have fairly good summations of 40k lore, the most important stuff, I would say try one of Luetin's videos specifically aimed at these summaries, then go to Weshammer and try the same thing

Majorkill is funny, but his videos are very short

Only War and The Amber King are two other channels that are very good, but they are much newer with less content than the others

If you asked me, Weshammer is probably the most interesting

Luetin spends too much time on tangents nobody cares about

Wes sticks to the lore

The Amber King is really good though, as well as Only War but again, they don't have nice summary videos of the entire setting

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLl6BRvEJ-auZ5aYPHj1B3pKJ_pLjg9qNU

You can watch the first 5 or 6 videos in this playlist and it should more or less cover the basics of the lore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0Z4i1Sl94g&list=PLGftEcsgSjUgJBExtV-gj8QEghLe97tYg&index=1&t=4s&ab_channel=WesHammer

Or you can start with this video from Weshammer which will more or less cover the same stuff with a few omissions

[scenic sun]

Depends on your style as Vicboss said.

Luetin tends to be the most accurate but man will go on tangents at times

Majorkill is nowhere near as accurate and will give you "a more memey" understanding. He's also quite edgy, so if you don't like that, don't watch him

Weshammer is more family friendly, but like majorkill, he does get things wrong at times, specially with the Ork belief thing

One last recommendation would be occulus imperialis, this man gets it VERY accurate but he uhm, has a style that is not for everyone

Lastly, try lexicanum (not the wiki, that thing's unreliable), and if you ever want to get deeper and into the table top, codexes and lore books are there

[spiral loom]

Luetin has a very large selection of 40k lore. Idk if you would find it thematic, but its entertaining at least

[jagged pumice]

Trying to recall. Does it say anywhere how lasgun standard batteries work?

[noble hinge]

imperium is a bad place to live, but what about other xenos places? Eldar? Tau?

lets talk here

[jagged pumice]

Are they disposal chemical batteries or some really fancy rechargeables.. That seem disposable too

[steep haven]

@noble hinge Post-Scarcity: an economic situation in which most goods can be produced in great abundance with minimal labor needed, so that they become available to all very cheaply or even freely.

Pheromone'd: My shorthand way of saying that folks in T'au colonies may be unknowingly subject to a form of discrete chemical mind control.

[noble hinge]

I see thanks

how many chaos gods in total?

[acoustic copper]

infinite

[noble hinge]

i mean the big guys

why ask when i cna google 😄

First amongst them is Khorne, the Lord of Battle, possessed of towering and immortal fury. Tzeentch, the bizarre and ever-changing Architect of Fate, weaves powerful sorceries to bind the future to his will, whilst great Nurgle, the Lord of Decay, labours endlessly to spread infection and pestilence. The last of their number is Slaanesh, the Dark Prince of Chaos, indulgent of every pleasure and excess, no matter how immoral or perverse.

and C'tan are even older gods?

[acoustic copper]

if only more people thought of this

[gusty sequoia]

whats in box the emperor lift for mankind

[celest dome]

4 known Major a few smaller and a plethora of unnamed one

[spark relic]

Gods that were enslaved and slaughtered by their previous worshippers

They were more god-like than actual gods

Though they did have god powers but I don't think they were ever worshipped in the conventional sense

more just followed

[noble hinge]

wasnt those made when the galaxy was made? and didnt they suck the necrons souls and made them what they are today?

hence the worshiped before and enslaved by necrons afterwards?

[spark relic]

They were basically turned into gods by the necrontyr since they were originally just sentient clouds of space gas which the necrontyr put into metal bodies

Then the C'tan put the necrontyr into metal bodies and turned them into necrons

This is an extremely rudimentary summary of the events

[noble hinge]

necrontyr - necrons?

i mmean

[spark relic]

They were Necrontyr when they were still biological

[noble hinge]

kinda like homo sapines= humans

i mean before

"They were basically turned into gods by the necrontyr since they were originally just sentient clouds of space gas which the necrontyr put into metal bodies"

so the ctan were put also in metal bodies?

[spark relic]

The c'tan were put into metal bodies first

[celest dome]

No more like:
Necrontyr: Human
Necron: Cyborg

[noble hinge]

is that giant orb in astartes a c'tan god?

[celest dome]

No idea

Isn't even cannon

Could be

Could not be

[noble hinge]

Weird lore but also fun since there is sooo much shit

[spark relic]

Oh yeah the lore is weird and vague as hell so much of it is up to interpretation

[noble hinge]

why did the Necrontyr put the ctan in the metal bodies? did the ctan wanted?

[celest dome]

Nah they needed power

The C'tan weren't sentient as we see it

[late pagoda]

Anybody got an idea as to how tall Skitarii are usually?

[spark relic]

Skitarii size depends

From human to astartes

[celest dome]

Ranger/Vanguard are supposed to be Adult sized

[spark relic]

Depending on rank and manufacturer

[late pagoda]

I was thinking they might be a slight bit taller, considering they replace their legs.

[noble hinge]

oh so they did it for them, so how did the Ctan destroy them and why did the Necrontyr let that happen if they were so smart?

[spark relic]

As cacti said, they wanted super slaves and accidentally made god-like entities

[noble hinge]

made? werent they already god-like?

[spark relic]

The C'tan had never experienced physical bodies and the potential of them before

[celest dome]

The Necron did to the C'tan to use them to be more powerful

[noble hinge]

so they wanted to enslave the C'tan and they fucked themselfs, all were destroyed yes not a single living Necrontyr survived? all were made robats?

remind me of that tv show westworld lol

where the ai fucked the humans hard

[lucid iron]

C'tan helped them destroy the Old Ones, that's why they did it, they then 'tricked' the Necrons into transferring their minds into living metal bodies

Thus fucking their entire species

[noble hinge]

The Old Ones were an ancient, technologically and psychically advanced intelligent species of cold-blooded reptilian beings or an alliance of individual advanced species.

ah ok so they used the ctan to destroy another galatic species

[spark relic]

they were convinced by their king to become robots, so technically they weren't forced

[spark relic]

One species

[noble hinge]

manipulated

[lucid iron]

They then destroyed the C'tan in vengeance

Because they were tricked

into foregoing their soulds

[noble hinge]

ye

[lucid iron]

with the promise of eternal life

[spark relic]

And enslaved some of them to use as batteries

[lucid iron]

which destroyed the mental faculties, of 99% of the Necrontyr species

[noble hinge]

but what exactly happened to their "souls"

[lucid iron]

so ya, they are not fans of either the Old Ones, or the C'tan, for very good reasons

[noble hinge]

mental facilities= emotions, memories?

[spark relic]

The higher in necrontyr society you were they more of yourself you retained after biotransference

[lucid iron]

In 40k, there is a concept of a soul, which Necrons no longer possess because they transferred their minds into machines

only biological beings have souls

[noble hinge]

but imperium does it too with servitors right?

[lucid iron]

This again, also made 99% of Necrons retarded

[spark relic]

Their souls were eaten by the C'tan

[lucid iron]

with the 1% of Necrons left capable of actual thought being the upper echelon of society

[noble hinge]

but what does it mean ?

[lucid iron]

Kings, lords etc.

It means they got screwed royally

[noble hinge]

so 99% got lobotomized ?

[lucid iron]

the c'tan ate their souls for energy

yes

[noble hinge]

how did they managed to beat them after what it seems to be a total population collapse

[lucid iron]

Also, much of Necron tech is so powerful because it is powered by shards of C'tan Gods

Because the Necrons had incredible technology

[spark relic]

Souls are connected to the warp and gives them a presence there which grants psykers their powers for example, the necrons don't have any so they can't use psychic powers or be affected by them like biological beings can

[lucid iron]

This is a war where the possibility of destroying the entire galaxy was a real possibility

nothing like what is in 40k

[noble hinge]

damm dark stuff

[lucid iron]

The 99% of the population could be controlled by the 1% basically

once they became robots, well actually it was just the Silent King

[noble hinge]

yeah thats true lol as we see by our own eyes here on this planet 😄

[spark relic]

All civilians were turned into mindcontrolled soldiers

[lucid iron]

the leader of Necrons could force all the other Necrons to do whatever he wanted, and because he wanted vengeance the entire civilization became focused on wiping them out

the C'tan

[noble hinge]

i like this one

"They came to us as gods and we, like fools, took them at their word. Mephet'ran the Deceiver, Aza'gorod the Nightbringer, Iash'uddra the Endless Swarm; I curse their names, and the names of all their malevolent brethren."
— From the Chronicle of Szarekh, Last of the Silent Kings

[spark relic]

All royalty and high ranking individuals retained most or all of their previous personality, the further down in society you were, the less you kept, the lowest keeping nothing

[lucid iron]

Yes, Szarekh doomed his entire species, and then left the galaxy once the C'tan were defeated