40k-lore-chat

[mossy mortar]

They are green after all

Which is a plant thing

[ruby sparrow]

I mean squigs are probably fine fucking dining

[atomic lodge]

They don’t transform energy to mass, either (to my knowledge). They pull nutrients from the ground

[honest gazelle]

not exactly its complicated

[mossy mortar]

It's not stated

But we can guess they can do both

[vocal drum]

the only race I know about rn is nercons since i ordered a book from amazon

necrons are interesting/cool

[mossy mortar]

Otherwise why would they be green

[honest gazelle]

indeed. their population count is literally tied to their tech advancement

[last lagoon]

In Rynns World there is actually an ork torturing humans by removing their faces off while alive

[atomic lodge]

I mean tau are blue

[honest gazelle]

they are the catalyst for the orks to have been made

[copper cliff]

Orks create energy from nothing which breaks the laws of reality but they also alter reality so it can only really be chocked up to. "Old ones were on some dank fucking shrooms."

[last lagoon]

Blood of Iax has a warboss feed a marine another marine's geneseed for the fun of it

[vocal drum]

if i was human id just ditch a human world and go live on a tau planet and live in peace

[mossy mortar]

It would make sense that the ork ecosystem can photosynthesize

[honest gazelle]

^^^^

[ruby sparrow]

Orks are on the surface, ungabunga, unorganized, stupid, have NO WAY they should be able to function and are generally barbaric

[mossy mortar]

The tau are one tiny little backwater, rhe rest of the galaxy doesn't even know they exist

[vocal drum]

but they have old ones magic in them

[ruby sparrow]

deep down, they're ungabunga, should not be able to function but in spite of all laws of physics, do , somewhat unorganized, not CONVENTIONALLY smart but they also make things which LOOK like they work, hell their aircraft look vaguely aerodynamic, and they actually have culture, and a semi functioning economy with their teeth as currency

actually, i think its a fully functioning economy

[honest gazelle]

sorta. they werent passed down their magic, they simply are such complexly designed to be simplistic in their purpose, which is constant war

[elder tide]

Their potent chaos psychic energy makes shit just work for no reason

[ruby sparrow]

But they are, undoubtably, ungabunga

[mossy mortar]

Orks think humans are unorganized and ridiculous

[copper cliff]

Its simple orkenomics

[mossy mortar]

'Oomans are pink and soft, not green and tough like da Boyz. They'z all the same size, too — no big'uns or little'uns, so they'z always arguing about who's in charge, 'cos there's no way of telling 'cept for badges an' ooniforms and fings. Anuvver fing — when they do sumfink, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of 'em wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, 'arf of 'em believe it and da over 'arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. Wot a lot of mukkin' about if yer asks me. An' while they'z all arguin' wiv each other over who's da Boss, da Orks can sneak up an' clobber da lot.
— Snotgrub's view of humanity and its failings

[honest gazelle]

ork psychic energy actually doesnt have any ties to the warp

[ruby sparrow]

Their sheer crackhead energy makes reality itself kneel

no warp needed

[honest gazelle]

^^^

[elder tide]

Oh? Didn't know that. I thought all psychic energy ties to the warp?

[mossy mortar]

Yes it does

[last lagoon]

It does

[vocal drum]

whats stopping orks from stomping out other races in the galaxy?

[last lagoon]

One of their dudes are literally called Warp'eads

[vocal drum]

like humans and necrons

[copper cliff]

They aren't very smart

[mossy mortar]

They usually get bored amd end up fighting each other

[vocal drum]

wtf

smh

[mossy mortar]

Or lose interest and wander off

[honest gazelle]

almost all are but orks arent tied the same way as others. since their energy doesnt pull from the warp directly, rather from the pyschic latent energy of all existing orks

[ruby sparrow]

Because one, if they wiped everyone out, theyd have nobody else to fight

[vocal drum]

orks>necrons?

[copper cliff]

Orks just wanna fight. I dont think they care about geopolitical influence

[vocal drum]

why dont they go fight necrons then if thyey wanna fight so badly

[ruby sparrow]

two, because they fight eachother a lot. Three, their tech uh... has a habit of uh catastrophicly malfunctioning in ways which defy all laws of reality

[copper cliff]

They do

[signal bramble]

They just want to get in to a proper scrap and krump things good.

[mossy mortar]

They do

[copper cliff]

They fight everyone

[ruby sparrow]

they do. they fight e v e r y o n e a t o n c e

[vocal drum]

orks are crazy i swear and dumb

lol

[ruby sparrow]

including eachother

[honest gazelle]

think of it like if orks had an visible cloud around each of them, their pyshcicly powerful members can pull from all those clouds to make big thunder

[mossy mortar]

Especially each other

[ruby sparrow]

They're like, the only faction which is actually enjoying the setting

[mossy mortar]

There's ork psykers the weirdboys

[honest gazelle]

yup

[mossy mortar]

They can shoot green lighting and stuff

[copper cliff]

Orks are the picture of "I'm gonna kill all of you and then myself"

[elder tide]

Oh bizarre interesting

[honest gazelle]

yee they feed off passive ork latent pyschic energy rather than the warp

[vocal drum]

out of all the races in warhammer which 3 races would be top dogs if they got their shit together, i assume orks and humans?

[mossy mortar]

Every so often their heads explode or daemons jump out, both of which the orks consider extremely amusing

[last lagoon]

They literally have a unit called warp heads lol

[ruby sparrow]

Orks basically have their own warp dont they

[last lagoon]

Sub space

[honest gazelle]

yes

[signal bramble]

Tyranids and Necrons?

[mossy mortar]

No it's still the warp, just channelled by the boyz

[last lagoon]

But its like only been achieved once as far as we know

[vocal drum]

but tyranids got their shit together tho they dont infight like other races

[mossy mortar]

Orks create a big dent in the warp lole the tyranids do

[vocal drum]

they have one hive mind that controls trillions

[copper cliff]

At their peak the necrons fought and won against reality altering gods. They're pretty snazzy.

[mossy mortar]

No they occasionally infight

[ruby sparrow]

Tyranids are ungabunga bugs and could wipe otu everyone but for some reason havent

[vocal drum]

^

ikr..

[last lagoon]

Theres a hive fleet that eats other tyranids

[signal bramble]

In Devastation of Baal they address it.

[honest gazelle]

orks if they unified, necrons if they all awoke, and humanity during its golden age along with the dark age of technology gadgets

[ruby sparrow]

Imperium is uh.. odd.

[mossy mortar]

Every race has its ultimate victory scenario

[ruby sparrow]

thing is some of their more extreme practices actually have reason to them

[copper cliff]

Tyranids are also just bugs so they lack cool tech stuff. And just have weird Scorn shit

[honest gazelle]

yep, they even use the shards of those gods as living superweapons

[signal bramble]

In DoB they say that the Tyranids have to maintain a net gain of biomass and attacking with everything they have would expend too much. As a result the tyrandis are only using the bare minimum.

[ruby sparrow]

such as how they deal with psykers

[mossy mortar]

They sort of can't to be honest that's supposed to be their weakness

[vocal drum]

ok so this universe summed up is as follows am i right? or close

1. everyone is fighting 2) people are lazy and lying around depressing 3) people torture eachother 4) wtf everyone is just in a state of stalement all the damn time, noone cares

[mossy mortar]

Everyone is the strongest snd the best and will definitely win

[ruby sparrow]

Its. complex

[mossy mortar]

That's 40k

[last lagoon]

Its all according to the perpetuals plans lol

[copper cliff]

But orks will definitely win 🙃

[honest gazelle]

orks pull from latent symbiotic energy

[signal bramble]

That's why discussing which race is the strongest doesn't work because the power level varies drastically from author to author.

[honest gazelle]

not the warp

[mossy mortar]

Dude you're quoting reddit

[copper cliff]

Bro you're quoting nothing

[last lagoon]

I think an actual book source would be better lmao

Saying they dont pull from the warp

[vocal drum]

holy shit can we just make ONE race actually not suffering? god let humanity go back to its golden age lol

[ruby sparrow]

imperiums in a state of religious zeal which is simultaneously fucking them over and avoiding complete collapse, or being skullfucked by chaos , genestealers, or a psyker accidentally having a funky moment and unleashing eldritch horrors on the world

[mossy mortar]

No

[ruby sparrow]

Orks arent sufferin

[honest gazelle]

technically orks arent

[signal bramble]

And ruin the whole setting? No thanks.

[ruby sparrow]

theyre thriving

[mossy mortar]

Orks are enjoying themselves

[honest gazelle]

^^^

[mossy mortar]

They're the happiest race by far

[copper cliff]

Orks don't need to win 40k

[signal bramble]

We like our dystopian nightmarish future thank you very much.

[copper cliff]

They already have

[ruby sparrow]

Orks, from the start of life, enjoy fighting

[vocal drum]

i cant believe orks enjoy themselfs while all other races are struggling

[ruby sparrow]

because orks are just built different

[ripe ravine]

the struggle is enjoyment for them

[honest gazelle]

yee theres even an eldeari quote on how the orks have philosophically won

[signal bramble]

Orks are an artificially created race that don't have the mental capacity to have an existential crisis.

[honest gazelle]

^

[mossy mortar]

Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!

[ruby sparrow]

Orks win 40k solely by being based and ungabunga enough to not give a fuck

[vocal drum]

thats hilarious

llol

[mossy mortar]

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

[honest gazelle]

bingo thats the one

[last lagoon]

Actually Ghaz does have an existential crisis lol

[ruby sparrow]

I mean, to everyone else, eternal war, demons coming out and attacking, dying in battle, death on the door...

[mossy mortar]

It's from the third edition rulebook

[ruby sparrow]

orks love fighting

[vocal drum]

besides orks what other race is "enjoying themselfs"?

[signal bramble]

He also has brain damage so I don't blame him.

[last lagoon]

When he doubts if he really is a prophet of the gods

And literally gets depressed

[mossy mortar]

Ghaz is a lunatic by ork standards because he has plans and ambitions and stuff

[honest gazelle]

no one really

[signal bramble]

Ghaz is the exception, not the rule.

[mossy mortar]

That's what makes those waagh prophets so dangerous

[signal bramble]

None of them.

[mossy mortar]

Dark Eldar sort of but it's also a mega cope

[signal bramble]

Maybe the tyranids when they're eating?

[ruby sparrow]

TECHNICALLY the slaanesh cultists as a faction not a race but theyre all high off of shit which makes cocaine seem less intense than tea.

[vocal drum]

do dark elder actually care for anyone?

[copper cliff]

Mechanicus seem pretty content being mechy boys. Rarely see them complaining. After all, even in death, they serve the omnissiah

[signal bramble]

Themselves.

[mossy mortar]

Dark eldar know they're loser parasites deep down i bet

[honest gazelle]

^

[vocal drum]

ok besides themselfs

[ripe ravine]

dark eldar can't tell the difference between enjoying themselves and hating themselves

so they barely even like themselves tbh

[mossy mortar]

Dark eldar are an entire society built around selfishness and decadence

[signal bramble]

There might be some exceptions like the ones that joined the Ynnari and want a better path?

[copper cliff]

Dark Eldar are the definition of getting lost in the sauce

[honest gazelle]

no one. they literally cause suffering to prevent their souls from being consumed by the chaos god slaanesh

[vocal drum]

so they just torture all other races? lol

[ruby sparrow]

Mechanicus are vibing and are doing their own thing because the imperium relies on them for anything to fucking work

[honest gazelle]

yep

[vocal drum]

because they hate t hemselfs? lol

wtf

[mossy mortar]

They jave to to survive

[signal bramble]

Dark eldar are psychic vampires, forced to feed on the suffering of others to hold of slaanesh who is draining their souls at all times.

[ripe ravine]

yes, and they need to in order to avoid attention from slaanesh

[vocal drum]

holy hell

[mossy mortar]

They can't even really enjoy it because they're forced to do it

[ripe ravine]

also why they don't have psykers

slaanesh would notice

[mossy mortar]

It's all so sigh tiresome

[copper cliff]

They have to be evil or slaanesh eats their souls and does to them what they do to others but for all eternity

[vocal drum]

the 40k universe would be a good place IF people ACTUALLY helped one another..

[signal bramble]

Also, they don't torture people to death, they make a conscious effort to keep their victims alive.

[mossy mortar]

Lol

[ruby sparrow]

Thing is helping one another has issues

[mossy mortar]

Ehat universe are you from again

[honest gazelle]

even then theres still some mind control propoganda, cus thats what the tau preach

[ruby sparrow]

one, psykers are innately dangerous

[signal bramble]

Even when they do, they usually betray each other.

[mossy mortar]

Because it's like that in our universe too

[honest gazelle]

dangerous to even their own

[ruby sparrow]

even if unintentional

[last lagoon]

Eisenhorn I think is like 40k personified

[ruby sparrow]

nah psykers are dangerous to every motherfucker potentially in the same system as them

[last lagoon]

"Good" to downright evil

[signal bramble]

I take it Bunny is new to the setting.

[ruby sparrow]

because they're ticking time bombs

[mossy mortar]

Psykers are dangerous but also entirely vital to the imperium's existence

[honest gazelle]

i believe so

[mossy mortar]

Without psykers there is no interstellar communication, no interstellar travel

[ruby sparrow]

psykers have stronger warp presences than others and are able to tap into the warp

[mossy mortar]

The imperium would cease to exist

[copper cliff]

The imperium is dangerous but vital to the imperium's existence

[ruby sparrow]

Psykers can do cool wizardry, violate laws of space time, all sorts of things... but they tap into the warp to do it and uh

[vocal drum]

ur saying that its 40k milenium and theres NO OTHER tech like warp drive and stuff like starwars and halo has to go FTL? the only tech there is right now in 40k year is to go thru a space hell?

wtf do necrons use then

[ruby sparrow]

effectively dox themself to the entire warp

[mossy mortar]

Space hell is FTL

[vocal drum]

they dont need warp

[last lagoon]

They bend space

[copper cliff]

Space hell+

[last lagoon]

Literally

[ripe ravine]

or the webway

[ruby sparrow]

there IS other ftl but warp is actually relatively safe

[mossy mortar]

Necrons cheat off the webway was how it was in the old lore

[last lagoon]

They basically catapult themselves through space

[ruby sparrow]

to travel

[honest gazelle]

oh they use dolmen gates, they highjack chunks of the webway from the eldar

[signal bramble]

Necrons can bend time and space as well.

[ripe ravine]

necrons I think have FTL now because they are special

[copper cliff]

Space hell is more like a wormhole but if the paper in the example was made of concentrated bad vibes

[ruby sparrow]

as in, usually, warp travel is relatively safe unless something goes wrong

[vocal drum]

something goes wrong<

[ripe ravine]

but like basically magic FTL

[mossy mortar]

The webway being a special curated borderzone between reality and the warp anyway

[signal bramble]

And space hell is unreliable where time and space don't function in a linear fashion.

[vocal drum]

like gellar fields failing?

[ruby sparrow]

Like a nuclear reactor

or flickering for a picosecond

[mossy mortar]

Yes if you hit a warp storm tou msy be in big trouble

[signal bramble]

There's a story of an ork warboss that traveled through the warp and went back in time to just before he went in to the warp and killed his past self so he could have two of his favorite gun.

[vocal drum]

its nice that u guys answer questions without being annoyed theres like 2 people here that are sick of me lol

[mossy mortar]

Marooned in the warp, blown off course, or blown into another time

[copper cliff]

I'm sick of you 🫵😡

[ruby sparrow]

its like a nuclear reactor, usually its relatively safe but when shit goes wrong shit goes REALLY wrong

[copper cliff]

🤢i am feeling ill

[mossy mortar]

Yeah the warp has all the problems of relativistic time but also more unpredictable

[signal bramble]

I love the lore and setting and have read up a lot on the setting. I love talking to people about the lore.

[ripe ravine]

if there's one thing 40k fans love it's explaining 40k

[last lagoon]

Necrons and Dark Eldar are like the pinnacle of tech in 40k, necrons probably much more so but still

[copper cliff]

Insert meme of bro explaining 40k lore in bleachers

[ruby sparrow]

Ork tech is significantly advanced technically

[vocal drum]

its like lol

[mossy mortar]

Dark Eldar hsve lost tech too

[last lagoon]

Dont read the wiki

[ruby sparrow]

because to our perception there is no fucking way it should work

[last lagoon]

Lol

[mossy mortar]

Yeah definitely don't read the wiki

[last lagoon]

The wiki gets shit wrong

[honest gazelle]

im curious, what does everyone think of the necrons Celestial Orrey?

[signal bramble]

Wait.

The tau have a sort of FTL.

[mossy mortar]

That's just the mechanicus talking

In-universe

[ruby sparrow]

ork tech is technicly considered significantly advanced because that shit is definitely indistingushable from magic

[copper cliff]

Necrons definitely have the tech. Shit makes Mechanicus horny

[vocal drum]

im like people here enjoy answer questions and lore so i just ask here but im also reading this book rn this book is insanely good

[mossy mortar]

I think that particular bit of lore is overused

[signal bramble]

The Tau are closer to the more cliche scifi universe and setting except they're trapped in 40k.

[ripe ravine]

it's pretty cool but also a one off plot device we will probably never see again

[ruby sparrow]

ork shit works because it looks like it works

[honest gazelle]

true

[last lagoon]

@vocal drum honestly if you want to get more into the lore, up to date codexes are great

[copper cliff]

Ork tech vaguely approximates machinery

[mossy mortar]

Yeah that's supposed to be the funny psrt.. unfortunately a lot of people aren't good st making the joke work

[signal bramble]

Just to give you an idea of how much I’ve read. That’s not even counting all ththe codexes I have.

[vocal drum]

hypothetically if tyrnids faced orks humans and tau , would would come out on top and were talking full army numbers

[ruby sparrow]

Its like a computer but inside the box instead of computer parts its just i dont know random fucking wires

[last lagoon]

Depends on the writer

[copper cliff]

Whoever is the protagonist

[mossy mortar]

No, ork meks have an instinctual knowledge of physics and engineering whoch they combine with experimentation to mske their machines

[signal bramble]

That would depend on what the writer wants to happen.

[ruby sparrow]

and yet it still fucking runs next gen games

[ripe ravine]

whatever the plot demands

[copper cliff]

But the only true winners regardless of writer intentions

Are orks

[mossy mortar]

It's a game you'd have to play it out

[ruby sparrow]

because orks are based

[copper cliff]

Because orks are the only ones who want to be there in the first place

[signal bramble]

Actually... there was the Octarius warzone where the imperium lead the Nids and Orks in to an all out war and when they realized what was going on they decided to intervene. It ended with the Nids devouring the entire sector though.

[mossy mortar]

Lame

[vocal drum]

nids need to be taken care of they are too OP

[signal bramble]

They finally addressed that old plot point.

[last lagoon]

I kinda wish they kept it a stalemate but man

Nids needed a win lol

[copper cliff]

Nids also get squarely bonked like almost every book theyre in

[signal bramble]

It also revealed the true lore behind the swarmlord which was pretty cool.

[last lagoon]

They keep catching Ls all around

[copper cliff]

Theyre really good chaff for protagonists to cut through

[ripe ravine]

the worf effect

[vocal drum]

even in that 40k space marine trailer they got pounded by those space marines lol

1 space marine killed like 3 tyranids

god i wanna play that game

[last lagoon]

Tbf it was a space marine vet

So it makes sense

[signal bramble]

Again, it all depends on who the author is. You may as well not bother asking about faction strength because we can go in circles all day. >_>

[last lagoon]

I dont remember if Space Marine 1 is before or after the tyrannic war

[ruby sparrow]

faction strength depends on writer and whos playing them

[copper cliff]

Tyranid's role is to be xenomorphs on mass. Which means they get both the Alien and Aliens treatment at the same time. They are scary super predators and also chaff for the slaughter

[signal bramble]

Yup

If you want nids with personality it's the genestealer cults.

Day of Ascension is a good read because it actually gave them some personality and it has some horrifying implications.

[last lagoon]

Swarmlord deserves more love tbh

[ripe ravine]

Cult of the Spiral Dawn is also excellent

[signal bramble]

He got it in Octarius.

[last lagoon]

Yeah but more

Let him stab the Emperor

Then its even

[mossy mortar]

Warriors are supposed to be genius level intelligence aren't they

Or is that one step up

[signal bramble]

In case you were wondering, the true lore behind the swarmlord is that every swarmlord we've seen is nothing but an avatar of the true swarmlord. Each is a body it's created to gain knowledge and experience shared by all it's other incarnations. Whatever the true form of it is, we haven't seen.

[copper cliff]

The true form:

A tyranid but bigger and with more arms.

[last lagoon]

So its Darkseid

[mossy mortar]

The Shadow in the Warp

[vocal drum]

i cant stop laughing how you guys explaiked orks just a bunch of dumb magiaclly smart race that somehow work lol

[ripe ravine]

the true swarmlord looks like jeff goldblum

[mossy mortar]

Orks have an entire economy too

[last lagoon]

I think its important to note orks arent actually dumb

[mossy mortar]

They're cunning

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-it-just-works-bethesda-this-all-just-works-gif-20598651

[mossy mortar]

But brutal

[vocal drum]

"Smart" in their own way

[mossy mortar]

Or is it brutal but cunning

[copper cliff]

They are not intelligent

They are cunning

[mossy mortar]

Gretchin are more practically intelligent

[ripe ravine]

yeah they're not dumb by ork standards but you can't really call them smart

[mossy mortar]

And run the more boring parts of ork society

[signal bramble]

Gork is the Brutal one, Mork is the Cunning one. That was clarified in the Catachan Devil novel.

[vocal drum]

ok so how do you explain their magic tho what do they just think of ammo in their heads and it appears in their hands/guns?

[last lagoon]

No

[mossy mortar]

U wot

[last lagoon]

Its basically warp grease

[signal bramble]

The same novel also confirmed that purple is the sneakiest color for Orks.

[signal bramble]

Yes, really.

[copper cliff]

Gork is the god of punching someone.

Mork is the god of punching someone while their back is turned

[mossy mortar]

Mork is the brutal one, gork is the cunning one everyone knows that

[last lagoon]

They can make stuff like trucks, guns and shit

[ripe ravine]

Gork is brutal but cunning and Mork is cunning but brutal

[last lagoon]

But with their gestalt field they work better than they should

[signal bramble]

Mork is for orks that prefer the sneaky approach.

[mossy mortar]

Which one is gork and which one is mork is like the biggest argument among orks

[signal bramble]

Gork is the one that fights head on.

It's new lore, I know.

[last lagoon]

Which one did I go to bed with last night

[vocal drum]

@signal bramblealso thanks for explaining

[copper cliff]

Its not new lore

[ripe ravine]

Mork does tend to be the sneaky god in lore but they also argue about it constantly

[signal bramble]

The same novel also completely ruins the Catachan Jungle fighters. Made me sad. 😦

[mossy mortar]

Sounds bad

[last lagoon]

Have you read Straken?

[mossy mortar]

I will not read

[signal bramble]

No, no. You don't understand what the Catachan Devil does to them.

I will show you.

[mossy mortar]

I read straken years ago snd remember none of i

[signal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-seishun-kyousoukyoku-naruto-run-run-neji-gif-22614495

That is what the catchan jungle fighters do in the novel.

I am not joking, that actually happens.

[last lagoon]

Read Straken

Honestly one of my favourite guard books

[mossy mortar]

I read it once it's probably enough

I might still hsve it somewhere actually

Ill hsve to look

[last lagoon]

It has an ork commit psychological warfare against the catachans

[signal bramble]

Once the catachan jungle fighters started naruto running I could never take them seriously again.

[copper cliff]

The who's gork and who's mork is just a really old ork meme but consistently gork is depicted as the direct fighter while mork is depicted as the guy who attacks you while you're turned around.

Its the sort of Orc and Goblin dynamic except its ork and Gretchin.

Its also why in Fantasy Skarsnik is the herald of Mork and grimgor is the herald of Gork.

[mossy mortar]

Gretchin are also pretty funny

[signal bramble]

Anytime, if you ever want to DM any questions feel free to.

[mossy mortar]

Too bad there's no night gobbos in 40k

[copper cliff]

Bad Moonz

[last lagoon]

Never forget Makari choked a child to death accidentally

[signal bramble]

I know way too much lore about this setting. >_>;

[mossy mortar]

I still have my collection of ancient white dwarf snd rogue trader books

I think it's actually starting to be worth money

[signal bramble]

This is just some of the codexes I have in addition to all the audiobooks.

[last lagoon]

You could donate rare stuff to warhammer world

[mossy mortar]

It's not that rare

[last lagoon]

Ah

[mossy mortar]

And some are ancient xerox copies inherited from other hobbyists

that's what people did to avoid lugging the rulebook around

[signal bramble]

Nowadays it's tablets and wahapedia and battlescribe.

[last lagoon]

And hot chips

[mossy mortar]

Is that an uplifting primer i see tucked in the middle?

[signal bramble]

I wish.

[last lagoon]

I'm surprised GW brought back squats

[signal bramble]

Same.

[mossy mortar]

Yeah that was unexpected

[signal bramble]

The codex doesn’t have nearly as much lore as I wanted but that’s an issue with all the 9th edition codexes.

[mossy mortar]

I mean rhey sort of put a placeholder in with the Demiurg

[last lagoon]

I want to see who said they liked squats actually ended up buying Leagues of Votann

[signal bramble]

I was going to get the codex no matter what.

But I ended up getting the starter box and have been slowly building and painting them.

[last lagoon]

I'm keen to see if the ark of omen xenos book is gonna be hrud

Since of the rumour engine showed a hand that looked like hrud

With the sludge n stuff

[mossy mortar]

Oh the xenology hrud

[last lagoon]

Yeah

[mossy mortar]

And not the old rulebook one

[signal bramble]

I think the ark will be necron or Eldar tech.

Or that new tech daemon making stuff.

[last lagoon]

This arks of omen is looking to be much better than gathering storm

I really really love Vashtorr

[signal bramble]

Gathering storm was kind of meh anyway.

[last lagoon]

Comes out with new lore and rules
Gives an L to Ynarri and Eldar
Doesnt matter months after the new edition is launched
Leaves

Such a chad

[mossy mortar]

Eldar never get to win lol

[last lagoon]

Peak GW writing with the "This is just 1% of my total power" keeper of secrets

Proceeds to stomp all titular eldar characters

[mossy mortar]

Is Eldrad still dead or did they retcon that

[last lagoon]

He's alive

[mossy mortar]

Lol

[last lagoon]

You gotta thank Eldrad

Killed the worst plotline in the Horus Heresy

[signal bramble]

In the new kasrkin novel they said that, as it turns out, most of the imperium is at peace with people living their lives. But the administratum only focuses on the war zones to keep the war machine going because without the imperium would collapse.

At first it’s suspect because it’s said by a character looking to betray the imperium. But another completely unrelated character says the same thing so I have to lean towards it being legit.

[last lagoon]

The Kasrkin novel was so

Unique to say the least

So much stuff happened

[mossy mortar]

It's probably one of those things where it depends entirely on how you define "most"

And "peace"

[last lagoon]

Its like Ultramar imo

Its at "peace"

But being beat up by everyone

[mossy mortar]

Or 1950s Britain. No active war but everyone's still on rationing

Snd half waiting to get bombed

[arctic talon]

^yeah

thats prolly the best way to like describe the imperium

its peacful in a lot of parts but always in danger

[signal bramble]

Well if you consider that the imperium is vast on a scale that the human can’t even comprehend it makes sense that a ton of places are probably fine.

[arctic talon]

yeah

also there's some very nice planets as well

tbh

Like a world actually intended for curing PTSD in guardsmen

[signal bramble]

Not to say they always have a good quality of life but not necessarily undergoing a massive planetary invasion.

[arctic talon]

it was really nice until a bunch of daemons fucking turned up on it

[arctic talon]

ye

[mossy mortar]

And places where they still ride horses and stuff

[arctic talon]

ironically feudal worlds could be a really nice place to live

[mossy mortar]

I liked the short stories on Baal Solock from Brothers of the Snake like thay

[arctic talon]

even for the pesants lol

Then again depends

[signal bramble]

The warhammer crime novels are really good. The smaller scale and attention to world building is amazing

[rustic spruce]

so have orkz always spoken in hooligan english or was that an acquired trait

[signal bramble]

Well the krork were originally a more advanced race and then they devolved in to what we know now. So their speech is a way of expressing that in a form of audio shorthand.

[dusk patrol]

When a race degrades, it becomes more and more British

This is the lesson of 40k

[brittle slate]

…

https://tenor.com/view/out-of-line-anthony-mackie-sam-wilson-falcon-the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-gif-21182970

[crisp heath]

[hexed shard]

what's the difference between zola and morrow? what are their ranks?

[arctic talon]

Zola is on the very first steps of becoming an inqusitor, Morrow is a sergeant major and prolly in charge of all the major stuff going on in the warband

[hexed shard]

so our superior is morrow?

[vocal drum]

lorewise are the orks or tyranids/dark elder fearful of space marines?

also necrons too

[arctic talon]

Yes

[arctic talon]

No to all of them

[terse talon]

Rannick is watching you! Also Zola patrols in that spot below

[hexed shard]

yeah i saw them its neat

[signal bramble]

Tyranids don't have the mental capacity for that. Dark Eldar don't fear the pathetic Mon'Keigh and consider space marines especially tasty for torture.

Orks generally can feel fear, usually other Orks.

If someone is bigger and tougher than them they're usually not willing to pick a fight.

[vocal drum]

i just want the tyranid hivemind to speak to us or something and tell us its origins

[sweet nexus]

Are there like independent humans characters that are not from imperium that ain't worshipping chaos ?

Kinda feels weird how humanity is either chaos worshipper or emperor worshipper

[arctic talon]

Yes

But they usually get conquered by the other 2

[sweet nexus]

Ahh

[vocal drum]

is it possible for a psyker to live in peace somewhere far away from the emperor like be a solo person thats super strong and noone fucks with?

[arctic talon]

Powerful psykers usually get eaten by a daemon

if they don't learn how to control their powers

But yes it would be

Just very hard

[full bane]

Yes, but it's rare.

And once knowledge of them gets out they tend to get hunted down, especially if they're Beta Class or above.

[full bane]

It's due to the fact that the Imperium basically conquered the galaxy thousands of years ago and are still conquering worlds that they find to this day.

[vocal drum]

And once knowledge of them gets out they tend to get hunted down, especially if they're Beta Class or above.<

what does this mean? is there a class system for pyskers?

[signal bramble]

There is.

And since the Rift was formed there are now more psykers being born, more people are suddenly awakening to psychic power, and psykers are all progressively growing stronger.

[arctic talon]

Yes there’s a thing called the classification

Before they get sanctioned

[signal bramble]

There are.

But they're rare and as soon as they get discovered they either join or get destroyed.

[ruby sparrow]

Also I need lore on swears in the imperium

[arctic talon]

Rho/Pi == no psychic talent(normal humans)
Omicron/Xi/Nu/Mu/Lambda/Kappa == low level psychic abilities and usually have little to no control over it usually manifests during stressful events. Can be seen as "good luck"
Iota/Theta/Eta == Conscious and moderate control, Iota and above are true psykers and are actually useful to the imperium
Zeta/Epsilon == High level psykers, usually need people to actually watch them and are security threats as they can get the attention of daemons
Delta/Gamma == one in a billion, High level psionic abilities, unless they're found they either die or get possessed
Beta/Alpha == Peak of normal human psychic capabilities, most of this level cannot properly contain their abilities and suffer from insanity

Alpha-Plus aren't classified since they don't count and classifying them would be foolish since they're absurdly powerful

[vocal drum]

@arctic talonty for that info

i wonder what level that tyanid pysker was that insanely OP one

maybe alpha plus

[arctic talon]

Alpha

Alpha-plus is literal world ending

[vocal drum]

knew it

o

[arctic talon]

Alpha-plus psykers can just pick up a titan

and snap it in two

[vocal drum]

do alpha plus exist?

[arctic talon]

yes

God Emperor of Mankind

Magnus the Red

Eldrad

[vocal drum]

what happens if a tyranid absorbed him

what would*

[arctic talon]

idfk

lol

but most alpha-plus psykers never use the full extent of their powers

mostly since I'd assume it strains their mind/body heavily

[vocal drum]

what can a alpha plus pysker even do

[arctic talon]

examples given are usually just

Snap a warlord titan in two

mind control entire armies

[signal bramble]

Frak, frakking, frakked, throne damned, throne cursed, emperor's bowels, throne, by the throne,

[arctic talon]

Summong greater daemons

[vocal drum]

and why do demons wanna posses them?

[arctic talon]

Because powerful host

big soul

lots of juice to help them manifest

[vocal drum]

tbh sorry, idk what pykers even do

[signal bramble]

Psyker souls are also more powerful inherently

[vocal drum]

or what they are actually

[arctic talon]

Psykers are space wizards

is the most simple description

[acoustic copper]

Pull energy from the warp into realspace with their minds to fuck with physics

[arctic talon]

^yeah

[vocal drum]

so did humans evolve over time in 40k years to get those powers?

[arctic talon]

Yes

[vocal drum]

wow thats the next step for humanity

thats pretty cool

[arctic talon]

Thats what Magnus thinks

We dunno what the emperor thinks

[acoustic copper]

It's a genetic mutation that is becoming increasingly common over time

[arctic talon]

yeah

[vocal drum]

is that a bad thing or a good thing?

[arctic talon]

both

for one it gives more psykers for the imperium to draft

but also it increases the vulnrability of the imperium

because a bunch of psykers popping up

[vocal drum]

we also get stronger to tho

[arctic talon]

sort of is a massive security risk

[signal bramble]

Psychic powers are a necessary evil and despite their necessity they're ruthlessly persecuted.

[arctic talon]

^

[acoustic copper]

Depends on your goal. Uncontrolled psykers are basically shining beacons in the warp attracting daemons without the training to fight them off

[arctic talon]

^that also

[signal bramble]

When a zealot says "burn the witch" they mean that quite literally.

[arctic talon]

yeah

the Zealot would absolutely burn

an unsanctioned psyker

without any doubt lol

[vocal drum]

when is a pyker is born or something how do you "track them"? other pykers or something

[arctic talon]

psykers are usually turned over by their parents lol

Most people see it as a "curse"

[vocal drum]

psykers are usually turned over by their parents lol

wtf

[arctic talon]

I mean

[acoustic copper]

Mostly either handed over, detected by other psykers or the imperium has a few pieces of technology that can locate tgem

[arctic talon]

the culture the imperium fosters is incredibly hateful towards psykers

[signal bramble]

The parents are taught that psykers are evil daemon spawn.

[arctic talon]

^yeah

[signal bramble]

So if your kid is one it means they're corrupted.

[arctic talon]

its like having a mutant child lol

[signal bramble]

And to prove you aren't, you turn them over.

[vocal drum]

the only thing id be worried about being a pyker is being possed by a demon

[acoustic copper]

A psychic child is a time bomb. at best they get taken away and trained

[arctic talon]

except mutant childs are like

usually killed on the spot lol

[arctic talon]

yeah

if the blackships don't come in time

its gona be a baby bonfire

[acoustic copper]

Or losing control of your powers and accidentally turning your parents inside out

[signal bramble]

Also per the novels, since it is genetic, certain admech bio scans know what to look for.

[arctic talon]

also people in the imperium literally kill people

who are too pale skinned and too tall

[signal bramble]

Scanning for the psyker thing is apparently pretty easy in fact.

[arctic talon]

because they've spent most of their life on voidships

[signal bramble]

Oh that short story.

[arctic talon]

y e p

hundreds of people lynched because they look a bit too different

[signal bramble]

Some religious fanatics had a crew from a void ship land. The people were born in space so looked different and the crowds murdered them.

[vocal drum]

i dont get the connection tho between demons and psykers, if psykers are just the next step of evolution how do they attract demons?

[signal bramble]

The guards said it was hard to watch, especially when they started killing the children.

[arctic talon]

Because psykers have strong souls

daemons are attracted to strong souls

[vocal drum]

but using ur powers attracts souls?

[arctic talon]

No

it just makes your soul show up even brighter in the warp

[signal bramble]

Just being a psyker means you shine like a beacon to daemons in the warp.

By your very nature.

[vocal drum]

in the warp psyker souls shine bright? ( didnt know this)?

[arctic talon]

its like the fucking bat signal lol

but for your soul

[vocal drum]

o cus warp is a mirror reality

[signal bramble]

All souls shine in the warp, tau have barely any light at all, psykers are bright af.

[arctic talon]

^

[acoustic copper]

As long as you exist, you're a liability. Training can help, but there's no such thing as a "safe" psyker

[arctic talon]

yeah

[vocal drum]

how does training prevent possession?

[arctic talon]

specific methods

and like practices

mental fortitude stuff

[signal bramble]

If they reach too deep in the warp they leave themselves vulnerable, they learn their limits.

[arctic talon]

^

[vocal drum]

so thats why the psyker in game says "get out of my head"

[arctic talon]

Yeah

because there's a thing trying to get in

[signal bramble]

Perils of the Warp as a mechanic.

[arctic talon]

or "don't lose control"

[signal bramble]

That's what it references.

[arctic talon]

and "buzzing, buzzing buzzing"

that sorta thing

[vocal drum]

are psykers are in a mental battle or something to not get possed if so then thats HELLA annoying trying to sleep

[signal bramble]

Perils of the Warp is also a gameplay mechanic on the tabletop where your psyker messes up their warp power draw and suffers some nasty consequences.

[arctic talon]

not in a constant one but

[acoustic copper]

At least in Darktide you can't Perils so bad you auto-summon a daemon

[arctic talon]

they're always prepared for the worst

yeah darktide perils are pretty mild

its just you exploding into a bunch of warp fire

[vocal drum]

the psyker in game is he/she low level?

[arctic talon]

Nah

[signal bramble]

The training is also to help them manage the temptation to gain more and more power.

[arctic talon]

they're like prolly delta or gamma leveled

[signal bramble]

They don't specifically say the actual level.

[arctic talon]

^

[atomic pelican]

People always remember the worst of the perils table but not the funniest. Ala (summon a stinky smell) the asswind of the warp

[arctic talon]

But they're def stronger then a wyrdvane psyker

[vocal drum]

Delta/Gamma == one in a billion, High level psionic abilities, unless they're found they either die or get possessed

[arctic talon]

My favorite one is when it just makes a loud noise lol

[atomic pelican]

YEP LMAO

[signal bramble]

The power rating thing is something that's less commonly mentioned nowadays. Same with factions, every psyker is as powerful as the author needs them to be.

[atomic pelican]

Bodyswap is also p funny

[arctic talon]

^yeah that also

the rating system isn't really used anymore

[vocal drum]

but then one in a billion is nothing since theres like trillion something humans?

[arctic talon]

more

there's 90 billion in atoma hive alone

[acoustic copper]

Also because GW couldnt be consistent if they tried

[arctic talon]

but our psykers in game aren't pushovers

[vocal drum]

still cant believe 1000 psykers are killed each time the FTL is used

[arctic talon]

Wut

where did you read that

[vocal drum]

wiki

[arctic talon]

uhhhhhh

[signal bramble]

You’re conflating the lore points.

[arctic talon]

^

1000 psykers are sacrificed a day to keep it possible

but FTL itself is like

usually doesn't involve psykers dying unless shit hits the fan

[vocal drum]

o

[acoustic copper]

The astronomican burns through psykers, but not "per warp travel"

It's like a lighthouse. It doesn't cost more to run a lighthouse if more ships can see it

[signal bramble]

The imperium doesn’t use ftl.

They use warp drives to rip a hole in the warp, the navigators use the astronomicon as a light house to somehow figure out roughly where they are and need to go, and then they rip a hole in the warp to go back in to reality.

[arctic talon]

yeah

but it is for all intents and purposes "ftl"

but it can go wrong yeah

[acoustic copper]

If you measured the straight line speed between the start and end points, it'd be ftl

[signal bramble]

It’s not because physics doesn’t apply in the warp. XD

[arctic talon]

I mean

It’s treated that way in story

Is my point lol

[vocal drum]

how fast would it even be to use the warp to go from milky way ---> andromeda

[signal bramble]

No idea.

[arctic talon]

We dunno

[acoustic copper]

You can't

[vocal drum]

why

[signal bramble]

Warp travel time is inconsistent on a good day.

[arctic talon]

^

[acoustic copper]

Because the Warp outside the galaxy is calm, you'd drift

[arctic talon]

Warp travel can be so fast you arrive before you left

Or you can literally be stuck in the warp for a hundred years

Before re-emerging

[signal bramble]

There are times where people have spent years in the warp, but in reality only a few months had passed, and they barely moved any distance from where they started also.

[acoustic copper]

No sentient life = no warp currents = no warp travel

[vocal drum]

There are times where people have spent years in the warp, but in reality only a few months had passed, and they barely moved any distance from where they started also.

um wtf

[arctic talon]

Warp travel is

[signal bramble]

Yeah.

[arctic talon]

Not great lol

But usually it isn’t too terrible

[acoustic copper]

The warp is fucky

[arctic talon]

Keyword is usually

[full bane]

There are also times when you make a warp jump and come out before you set off.

Or far into the future.

[signal bramble]

The most reductive explanation for warp travel is that it’s inconsistent.

Warp travel is usually only used for traveling very long distances. If they’re traveling in the same solar system they’ll resort to good old fashioned space travel.

[full bane]

There are stable routes through it that make it less dangerous to traverse, but heading into warp storms, warzones, or uncharted routes is dangerous.

[arctic talon]

Prolly why the warp jump in the opening was so shit lol

[signal bramble]

Hopping 2-3 planets over doesn’t require warp travel.

[arctic talon]

They prolly made a warp jump via a not well charted route

[signal bramble]

Plus not every ship has a warp drive or the ability to hire a navigator.

[arctic talon]

And also they jumped close to a planet

[signal bramble]

A massive no no.

[arctic talon]

YeH

Prolly why the navigator had a small seizure

[full bane]

Yeah, either that or they're going close to the planet.
The Chaos fuckery on Tertium doesn't help either.

[arctic talon]

Prolly was trying his or her best

To not crash into atoma

[signal bramble]

Nurgle and his stinky boiz.

[acoustic copper]

You don't want to jump near a gravity well. You end up going from "Physics is a suggestion rather than a rule" to all the physics

[arctic talon]

Yeah

They jump like

Into a gravity well

[signal bramble]

These new folks asking about 40k lore and learning how messy it can be is a delight. XD

[arctic talon]

mfw this isn't even the horrible stuff

Dark eldar soup

my beloved

[acoustic copper]

Kinda wish we could make threads, I imagine the same conversations are gonna be repeated over and over as new people come in

[full bane]

And even the well known horrible stuff is pretty tame in mindfuckery as compared to some of the more interesting depictions of warp fuckery.

[arctic talon]

yeah

Also the Cannoness's personal quarters in

I forgot which book

[full bane]

glances at the Dark Coil and Haarlock's Legacy

[arctic talon]

is a wonderful piece of lore on why the imperium is filled with a bunch of psychopaths

[signal bramble]

Daemonculaba. >_>

[full bane]

Give us more creepy fuckery Black Library.

[arctic talon]

My personal collection,' Santhonax told the commissar as she joined him from the shadows. Krieg surveyed the canoness's collection of arch-heretics and iconoclasts. 'I'm sure that you've heard of the infamous Cardinal Krabbe,' Santhonax said as she passed an aged cleric in shredded, blood-soaked robes. He was hanging from the ceiling on a set of wicked hooks and chains that were embedded in his back-flesh from his scalp to his shins. His encrusted beard dangled towards a gently gathering pool of literal blood, sweat, and tears.

The canoness pushed him gently as she passed, eliciting a desperate moan from the heretic as he gently rocked and the hooks went to work on the fresh flesh.

[signal bramble]

Or that one scene where the EC went full hentai tentacle daemon.

[arctic talon]

Next was a tubular plas tank full of thin, liquid murk - a sloshing filth of blood-threaded puce. An oxygen pump beat rhythmically on one side of the tank, feed something inside air through a corroded metal pipe. 'Xenobi Quordaiyn - the Butcheress of Banzai,' Santhonax informed Krieg. 'The end of my predecessor: I promised that I would never be the end of her...'

The cadet-commissar leaned in to get a better view through the effluence. A single palm thrashed out against the plas causing Krieg to jump back. The hand was skinless and raw: ligaments, veins, and in some places bone were all on show. It retracted as fast as it had appeared. 'Molecular acid,' Santhonax told him. 'The weakest I could find. She'll be slowly dissolved over a thousand years - less than she deserves.'

[hollow sigil]

Read Graham McNeil's Mechanicus trilogy if you want creepy fuckery

just alien mindset machine cultists churning through "human resources" with absolutely no regard.

[vocal drum]

lorewise tho do pyksers act the way they do in game?

[full bane]

You mean Forge of Mars, or his Mechanicum novels?

[arctic talon]

yes

[hollow sigil]

also we meet an arcoflagellant and get an in depth discription of the creation process.

[full bane]

Because I've read both and they're actually more humanising than most Mechanicus depictions imo.

[arctic talon]

in fact some are even more crazy

[vocal drum]

they act very smug and cocky

and sometimes crazy

[arctic talon]

They are absolutely smug at times lol

[hollow sigil]

Smug until you put a bolt between their eyes for looking warpy

[arctic talon]

lmfao

[vocal drum]

whats the worst that could happen

with a pyker

[arctic talon]

They cause a small warp rift to open

[hollow sigil]

Entire planet? Not there anymore

[arctic talon]

^

[hollow sigil]

That's the worst that could happen.

[arctic talon]

now thats like a really bad

scenario

but yeaah

[full bane]

The creepiest fuckery imo is when the writers don't depict the warp as just some evil hell place, but something more insidious. Like Haarlock's Legacy was great for that.

[hollow sigil]

Yeah but thats the worst case scenario

[full bane]

Makes me wish Alan had written some novels as well.

[hollow sigil]

Or any number of the horus heresy novels. I'm fond of Fulgrim myself for depicting people going warpy

Even if its a bit over the top and campy

They are the emperor's children after all, campy is expected

[full bane]

lol yeah.

I was just about to say that Fulgrim as an example is kind of overt and camp.

But still satisfyingly creepy and disturbing.

[hollow sigil]

I like all the artists going insane in different ways, and also the ways that the space marines become fixated on different ideas of perfection

normally I find the total asexuality of BL fiction slightly offputting but in this case it forced the author to come up with alternative slaneshiness

Like it would be one thing if the Imperium were just insanely puritanical and repressed (sex for procreation only, though probably not in marriage because of the damned deathrates). It just doesn't exist though.

meanwhile DEMONETTES

[signal bramble]

There’s a story where one attracted the attention of warp entities called enslavers. Her body got twisted and contorted in to a portal and the enslavers used her to enter the material realm and conquer her planet.

It required an exterminatus.

[vocal drum]

okay wow no wonder people are scared lol

lmfaoo

[acoustic copper]

Oh yeah I forgot about enslavers, they're fun 😆

[vocal drum]

exterminatus

??

this is?

[acoustic copper]

Rendering a world completely uninhabitable

[wind canyon]

Eradicate all life on a planet

^

[vocal drum]

what about the people?

[acoustic copper]

'uninhabitable'

[wind canyon]

If there's any left alive, they die

[acoustic copper]

Everyone dies

Exterminatus is "there's something on this world we cannot allow to escape and spread, so we will destroy the planet rather than risk it"

Even though it will kill billions and deny the planet's resources to the Imperium

Depending on the method, the planet might be salvageable, but it's rare and takes generations

Other methods physically destroy the world. It's what you do as a last resort when you absolutely cannot salvage the situation

[full bane]

Incinerated along with the atmosphere in the case of a cylonic torpedo, consumed along with all other life by a biophagic virus in the case of a virus bomb, just absolutely murdered when they destroy the core of the planet...

There's almost no evacuation when you exterminatus a planet.

Outside of the most essential personnel.

[arctic talon]

even then not always

[acoustic copper]

Usually defeats the point, depending on the reason for the exterminatus

[full bane]

Yup, if it's something like a xenos threat that is overwhelming or rooted into the world itself (Orks infested throughout the world, Necron Tomb Worlds, other kinds of xenos threats that make the world impossible to conquer or hold and a possible threat to other Imperial Worlds), you might pull everyone out before blowing it up.

[vocal drum]

Ive wondered im reading the necron book but how come humans dont go looking for necron tomb worlds and dig them up and steal their guns and technology

[full bane]

But for corruption, cognitive hazards, and most of the scenarios that require exterminatus... You blow it up with every other possible vector of infection/spread.

Then you round up the rest who were there and execute them.

[full bane]

They do, it's one of the Mechanicus' hobbies.

And why half of the older Necron fiction start with an AdMech expedition digging too deep and unearthing something forgotten.

But overall looting Xenos technology is something that both the Imperium or the Mechanicus forbid.

[vocal drum]

also

well okay lol

[full bane]

The tools of the xenos are heretical in their eyes, and to use them is a crime, unless you're a Rogue Trader, Inquisitor, ArchMagos, or anyone else high ranking enough to ignore your own doctrine.

[arctic talon]

Rules for thee not for me

[full bane]

Yup, and different sects with different opinions too.

[signal bramble]

Because using alien tech is heresy.

The Admech will study it (for the purpose of better learning how to destroy it) but for anyone else? Probably a death sentence.

The Tau have gifted superior technology to human worlds and when the imperium reconquers it they’ll replace the better tech with worse stuff because it’s human made.

You have to remember the setting is the dark ages in space. Ignorance and stagnation are a big part of it.

Car wont start? It’s because you didn’t pray enough or burn the right kind of incense.

Not because the battery is dead.

[acoustic copper]

Can't trust filthy alien technology. If you start thinking alien technology is better you might start thinking aliens are better

[signal bramble]

And the alien’s crime is that it dares to exist.

[arctic talon]

breathing is crime enough

stealing oxygen from humans

[full bane]

'You speak with the willful ignorance of one who has chosen not to study the technology of xeno-species,' retorted Blaylock. 'And you are forgetting the Sixth Law: understanding is the True Path to Comprehension.' ```

Discourse about these exists, but only amongst the elite and highly placed. For 99.9999% of the setting, using alien technology is a death sentence.

[tired umbra]

The Admech are as united as my head is full of hair. Which is not much.

[scenic sun]

That can be said about any imperium faction

[earnest snow]

40k is either grimfunny or grimdark. No inbetween

[keen grail]

Strange question, but the doves that arrive when a sister of battle saint bursts out of the warp, were those doves teleported in from some warp dove storages, or created by the warp and therefore are daemon doves of the god emperor?

[acoustic copper]

They were created out of narrative convenience

[quick agate]

I really hope they'will do skins of all "basic" regiments of the Astra

Like mordian, Ventrilian etc

[rich bolt]

So I've been a 40k fan for a while but the various chaos factions never really did it for me. So, I'm wondering, based on how 40k usually goes:

In the game, we frequently melee all sorts of nurgle cultists and pox walkers. In the lore, shouldn't that be a disease-ridden death sentence?

[formal saffron]

How would a Custodian stand up against a Primarch?

[boreal nimbus]

I remember something from the alpharius origin book that he bodied a few custodians and went toe to toe with Constantine Valdor but was holding back

And Alpharius isn’t the best fighter amongst the primarchs either

[knotty pivot]

I am Alpharius

[boreal nimbus]

I’m calling the inquisitor

[formal saffron]

Oh right I remember that story

[boreal nimbus]

I think he kept their spears too, which is pretty funny

[formal saffron]

It's what triggered the blood games for the Custodes to test their defensive measures

[formal saffron]

Yeah and that's why he had the "Pale Spear" now xD

Good call

I didn't think of that

Lol I'd imagine the fight being some sorts of cracked Dark Souls character fighting black Knights xD

[hexed shard]

Is the emperor omnipresent?

[scenic sun]

clearly not

[acoustic copper]

no. He's on terra

[ripe ravine]

I think they mean like an omniscient divinity

[acoustic copper]

well that's a whole other word. and if he is omniscient he's not really in a position to tell anyone what he's aware of

[ripe ravine]

he is not, although there is conflicting lore that suggests humanity's faith plus the psychic awakening has given him a little more agency

waaaay short of omniscience but he arguably has at least some awareness given the increase in living saints after the great rift

[mossy mortar]

The only alien technology thst seems tolerated is the jokaero

[crisp heath]

No, and imo in my headcanon he has a very human sense of scale which has lead to many of his failures

On the throne he can probably see a small window of what is beyond the throneroom

[hexed shard]

Omnipresent means being everywhere at once. Omniscient means knowing everything.

[hexed shard]

I’m new to 40k so what the emperor can/cannot do or what he is kinda confuses me

I thought he was like a consciousness flying around the universe or somthing

[mossy mortar]

It's not well explained

Also it's the warp so you have to be insane to actually understand it

[ripe ravine]

perhaps on some level but also his mind is sort of trapped in his body/powering the astronomicon. the nature of the emperor and whether he still has some kind of plan or not is left deliberately vague

[crisp heath]

He’s mostly stuck on the throne but the physical and the psychic are beginning to disentwine

[hexed shard]

Is the astronomicon a machine? I thought it was just something he did with his mind

[hexed shard]

Beginning to what?

[ripe ravine]

its a machine, but also the name refers to the psychic beacon that his mind powers

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astronomican

The Astronomican is a psychic beacon located on Terra which the Navigators use to pilot the spaceships of the Imperium through the otherwise unnavigable chaos of Warp-space. As the beam generated is psychic it exists within the psychic universe of the Warp. It is the duty of the Adeptus Astronomica to maintain all aspects of the Astronomican, including training those who will power it.

[acoustic copper]

it's a machine the Emperor directs with his mind

[ripe ravine]

before the Horus Heresy he was able to power it without being on the Golden Throne

which is why interstellar travel was still possible

He looked at the Emperor of Mankind, and could not see. Too much, too bright, too powerful. The unreality of the being before him stunned him to the core. A hundred different impressions, all false, all true, raced through his mind.

He could not remember what his father had looked like, before, and Roboute Guilliman forgot nothing.

And then, that thing, that terrible, awful thing upon the Throne, saw him.

‘My son,’ it said.
‘Thirteen,’ it said.
‘Lord of Ultramar.’
‘Saviour.’
‘Hope.’
‘Failure.’
‘Disappointment.’
‘Liar.’
‘Thief.’
‘Betrayer.’
‘Guilliman.’

He heard all these at once. He did not hear them at all. The Emperor spoke and did not speak. The very idea of words seemed ridiculous, the concept of them a grievous harm against the equilibrium of time and being.

[crisp heath]

The Emps is a soul made of many ancient psykers/shamans which made him so powerful. He is more than his physical body and as it dies the warp being powered by the death and worship of humans grows

[ripe ravine]

excerpt from Dark Imperium: Godblight

[storm jungle]

The shaman thing hasnt been mentioned since the 80's

[ripe ravine]

the emperor as a fractured consciousness is a recurring theme

[storm jungle]

its not exactly canon anymore for now

[crisp heath]

Its still as good an explanation as any

[storm jungle]

Kinda?

[acoustic copper]

stuff doesn't just stop being canon after a period of time has passed

[storm jungle]

Or he can just be a good wizard™️

[crisp heath]

That or he’s just an Alpha+ with good PR

[storm jungle]

They mostly do

its like half of 40k lore

[mossy mortar]

Star-child lore return when

[storm jungle]

Already done

[crisp heath]

But that doesn’t track with his power relative to any other living psyker

[storm jungle]

Throne of Light confirmed it

[ripe ravine]

there was also a theory that he was a weapon from the dark age of technology, although this is contradicted by accounts of him being around far earlier in history by people like ollanius pius

[acoustic copper]

GW have literally said on several occasions "everything is canon", so I think I'll take their word for it

[mossy mortar]

He has good pr

[storm jungle]

Nah, the only canon stuff is what GW wants to be canon

that statement in itself is just stupid

[mossy mortar]

Which changes over time

[storm jungle]

so like, it doesnt really work

[crisp heath]

He stood against the avatar of all 4 chaos gods and won, and still lives 10000 years later

[storm jungle]

Won as in... turned into a corpse on a throne?

[crisp heath]

He has held the warp closed in the depths of the palace for a similar length

[mossy mortar]

Canon refers to the collection of religious works considered geniuine snd had no relation to fiction

[crisp heath]

He saves Mankind by his very existence

[storm jungle]

Yeah I have google too

[acoustic copper]

they also make cameras

[crisp heath]

That is a fact, if nothing else

[storm jungle]

I mean, again not really?

He more or so admitted humanity is doomed.

especially with the webway project being destroyed

[mossy mortar]

Canon the company is actually nsmed after a buddhist god

[storm jungle]

Best he can do is delay it until the space marine sales are boosted

[mossy mortar]

Well, bodhisattva

[storm jungle]

[mossy mortar]

Which is not s god but a holy man

[ripe ravine]

there are some people who think guilliman returning is part of some kind of fallback plan but I tend to also believe chaos already won and are just mopping up in slow motion

[mossy mortar]

Sorry holy woman technically

[ripe ravine]

if he has a fallback plan, I don't think it will work

[storm jungle]

That's more or so the case yes. The Imperium hasnt fallen simply because the setting needs to exist.

[mossy mortar]

It's right in the basic setup

[storm jungle]

the Imperium's eventual fate is more or less for it to crumble and humanity making its own territories and kingdoms in space

[mossy mortar]

The imperium is a stagnant, failing bureaucracy

[storm jungle]

a bit like the holy roman empire more or less

just minus the popes

[mossy mortar]

Committing ever greater horrors just to exist

[ripe ravine]

stuff like necrons and tyranids are curveballs but as far as the imperium vs. chaos war

arguably that ended when magnus did nothing wrong

definitely with the siege

[mossy mortar]

Yeah without an imperium humanity is probably doomed

[acoustic copper]

If guilliman coming back was part of some great plan, then that plan also had to include him almost dying to fulgrim and being placed in stasis (because you can't come back if you never went anywhere)

[mossy mortar]

Of course that's what the imperium thinks

[storm jungle]

Humanity was doing fine without the Imperium tbf

yeah pretty much lmao

[mossy mortar]

But no they're actually screwed in modern 40k

[storm jungle]

when they are the ones that feed chaos the most through the atrocities they commit and the amount of people they push to chaos worship

[mossy mortar]

With stuff like the tyranids

[acoustic copper]

everyone's screwed when the Tyranids finally hit properly, and the only one who knows it is the Silent King

[mossy mortar]

The entire Guilliman resurrection plot is dumb and I hate it

[ripe ravine]

well get ready for the Lion

[storm jungle]

^

The leaks kinda confirmed it

[ripe ravine]

its not confirmed but seems likely

[mossy mortar]

So dumb

[storm jungle]

the Rock is getting attacked

[mossy mortar]

But then End Times was super stupid too

[acoustic copper]

it's "seemed likely" for the last 20 years tbh

[storm jungle]

I wouldnt say so

Guilliman only came back because sales

lore isnt at the forefront of these business decisions

[mossy mortar]

That's how it should have been kept

[storm jungle]

Once the Lion comes back its more or so gonna get worse from there

everyone knows it at this point too

[ripe ravine]

there's a black library stream in like 20-30 minutes

[mossy mortar]

Like End Times

[storm jungle]

Nah

40k is never getting End Times'd

[acoustic copper]

oh right the BL thing is today

[ripe ravine]

probably overhyped as usual but maybe there'll be some details on next year

[storm jungle]

it will ONLY happen when it stops making money

so like

at least 90 years from now probably lol

[mossy mortar]

It is in the sense they're going to kill off a bunch of characters and ruin the lore

[storm jungle]

Eh that i can live with, I'll just pretend it didnt happen like I do with fantasy

[acoustic copper]

the eye opening was the equivalent of the 40k end times. they're never going to nuke their most valuable IP, but it shook up the narrative in the same way

[mossy mortar]

I already do

[storm jungle]

Remember the golden lesson guys

This is why AUs exist 🙏

[mossy mortar]

Ruined it

[ripe ravine]

I think the main difference is they're still making 40k after 7th edition

endtimes was literally the end of support for fantasy

[acoustic copper]

It was getting pretty stupid how they were trying to squeeze absolutely every event into the last few years of M41, so I'm glad they pushed past that

[storm jungle]

Nothing lasts forever and 40k will get rebooted at some point but its not anytime soon.

[mossy mortar]

They've already rebooted it

That's what indomintus era is

[storm jungle]

Reboot as in massively change the status quo

40k is still the same

[mossy mortar]

They even redid marines

[storm jungle]

I maen just marines tho

the other factions got nothing

its still all the same

Its literally just old 40k but now you got a big chaos portal in the middle with shinier marines

[mossy mortar]

Nah it's a big difference because instead of stagnation now it's all new stuff

[acoustic copper]

Imperium's still there, Chaos is still there, couple of daemon primarchs got off their asses so that people can buy the big models. the only faction undergoing any kind of in-universe development outside marines is the Tau

[ripe ravine]

leagues of votann novel any day now

[mossy mortar]

The hololith of grudges

[ripe ravine]

actually shit hopefully they announce one during this stream

[storm jungle]

Excuse me

its the Blockchain of Grudges

[mossy mortar]

Lol

[storm jungle]

im sorry

[acoustic copper]

facial recognition database of grudges. "Hey, you? the ancestor core says you swindled my great great grandfather out of a contract for ore"

Railgun to the face

[ripe ravine]

chaos needs to do something after cadia so i'm glad arks of omen is happening

[storm jungle]

Very interested to see where it goes

[ripe ravine]

also the best case scenario for eldar fans is that GW keeps forgetting about them

[storm jungle]

as an eldar fan this is correct

[shadow plover]

Arks of Omen seems quite interesting yeah

[acoustic copper]

well last time GW remembered Eldar they got the Ynnari, so they're better off being forgotten

[storm jungle]

also correct

[ripe ravine]

psychic awakening also went very not well for them

[storm jungle]

to be fair

[ripe ravine]

and that's kind of the last time they were super relevant

[storm jungle]

psychic awakening literally went not very well for anyone that wasnt the Imperium

[mossy mortar]

Ynnari was best left as a rumor

[acoustic copper]

Psychic awakening was a shitshow for everyone tbh

[storm jungle]

^

like

literally nothing happened

[ripe ravine]

also true

[acoustic copper]

"wanna know what happens next in 40K? Buy all these massive books that have fuckall to do with your faction that we'll invalidate in a few months anyway"

[storm jungle]

LMAO

YEAH LIKE, WHAT WAS THAT

[acoustic copper]

like literally, exactly what happened with the end times books

[storm jungle]

Honestly all i did was go to reddit to read the lore summaries after that point

[acoustic copper]

no wonder people thought 40K was ending

I thought psychic awakening would have been a great time to make psykers way more powerful, maybe introduce a 40K version of endless spells or something to really shake the game up, not just a meh story and then a new edition

[ripe ravine]

psykers are more common now in a setting where numbers have always been meaningless and manpower infinite

[acoustic copper]

"There are way more psykers now" "Can I take more in my army?" "No. Same as before" ...

[crisp heath]

The Indomitus Crusade was a cool idea. Practically speaking nothing changes but there’s new models and Guilliman is back but he’s just one man.

[ripe ravine]

the amount of fans who don't know they retconned the indomitus time jump is...troubling

I've had more than one person ask how we can be from cadia if it was destroyed hundreds of years ago

[acoustic copper]

I think they should have brought the leagues forward and have them be the ones saving Baal. would have made so much sense having the Squats getting revenge on the Tyranids

[storm jungle]

Only important thing we got out of the psychic awakening was learning that we are getting psychic ogryns/starting to manifest

[ripe ravine]

might have been a cool idea but Baal was released during the beginning of 8th edition and votann didn't come until near the end

[acoustic copper]

gee that might have been why I said "bring the leagues forward"

[ripe ravine]

gee I missed that part

[acoustic copper]

there's no way they weren't under development back then, the squats were hinted at in PA

[shadow plover]

Yeah I really think it the biggest missed opportunity to not introduce some variation of AoS' endless spells with those books

[storm jungle]

Yeah new factions are in development AT LEAST 3 years prior to their release.

Theres a lot of work involving sketchwork + putting them into minis + prepping lore etc

[ripe ravine]

preparing the mini sculpts in particular is much more time consuming than people realize

they have like a patented process for it

[terse talon]

You guys think they will add in the Chaos captain from the prologue? In subtitles they even give him a name rather than just "Captain" so hopefully we get our first real boss 😄