40k-lore-chat

[rustic spruce]

Commit warcrimes, field bane wolfs

[crisp heath]

Being harassed by plague drones and a flying demon prince

[deft sedge]

we talkin 40k or 30k

[crisp heath]

40k

[deft sedge]

brutal

I was playing the other day and saw a dude get tabled by 30K death guard, hard

including primarchs

[rustic spruce]

I hear the votaan are doing well in the tabletop

[deft sedge]

yeah they're straight busted pretty much

typical codex power creep unfortunately

https://www.stat-check.com/blog/the-leagues-of-votann-codex-is-broken-we-hope-this-analysis-shows-why

they pay less points for better units. lol

tyranids are still more busted and arguably harlequins as well

[rustic spruce]

Didn’t chaos get a really busted flamer unit

I recall somebody complaining about tzeentch flamers

[deft sedge]

flamers got updated yeah

autohit attacks with s6 lmao

[dusk patrol]

Flamer? I hardly knew her!

[atomic pelican]

Votann got nerfed into reason. We still await the flamer nerf. The last dataslate was the laziest slate ever sadly

Atleast gw has talked abt how meaningless it was publicly

[north ivy]

I want cadian color scheme for Veteran 😞

[crisp heath]

Just. As. Planned.

[spark relic]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-monster-rotfl-gif-14520250

[acoustic copper]

Votann heading for the nerf bat again

[broken echo]

Adeptus mechanicus 37%, ouch

[spark relic]

Custodes doing well as always

[broken echo]

Tzeentch at 70%, I like to see (though I have no clue what this is win rates for)

[spark relic]

Yeah I don't know either

[ripe ravine]

official tournaments I think

specifically, the data is from the 2022 US Open Series

[broken echo]

Kind of surprised tau aren't somewhere at the bottom as, last I heard, people hated them right?

That reminds me why I popped in here in the first place. Why do people hate the tau? They seem pretty neat in my opinion

[ripe ravine]

it doesn't track their popularity, just win ratios

when people do play as tau, they win 50% of the time

[broken echo]

ah okay, my bad. Thought for a second that bad popularity = few tau being played = lower win rate. Though now that I think about it, that doesn't make sense

[brittle slate]

Tau= balanced

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-balance-perfect-gif-25200656

[broken echo]

Nice

[ripe ravine]

there are two answers basically. the first is they are the "anime" faction, mech suits and a lot of cultural inspiration. the second is, especially when they were released, they arguably don't have grimdark enough lore

[broken echo]

Hmm, I guess that makes sense.

[brittle slate]

Generally speaking?

[ripe ravine]

their culture isn't really that dysfunctional, they make alliances with xenos, it isn't until you get to the ethereals that things start getting sketchy

[brittle slate]

People that don’t know lore and bandwagoning

[willow bramble]

Hey guys do you think Sienna's Tattoo would work for a preacher? Seeing as the 2 universes aren't officially linked would the fantasy fire runes on the shoulder and hand be considered xenos markings and therfore xenos or heretical by a preacher? The flames just fit the Preacher really well imo. I know I'm thinking wayy to much into it

[brittle slate]

That’s only if you read one authors stuff

And the majority of the (online) tau community rejects him

He’s like Matt ward

It’s just doesn’t work

[ripe ravine]

I'm just basing it off how they are presented in their own codexes

[willow bramble]

I'm really into 40k but I wouldn't consider myself a lore buff

yet

[ripe ravine]

I don't agree, but this is why the tau hate exists

[brittle slate]

Tau hate is kind of just part of 40k community now

Kind of a meme

People that take it seriously are… weird

[deft sedge]

lmao, lol even

[ripe ravine]

for real though don't underestimate how much of it is grr weebs hat weebs

[broken echo]

Didn't they make it that the etherals at one point had some sort of overwhelming psychic authority, practically borderline mind control? Like the effect a primarch might have on someone, not outright persuasion but instead overwhelming authority

[brittle slate]

Definitely a few

[deft sedge]

"kind of"

[willow bramble]

anyone got an idea? 🥺

[brittle slate]

No- that was an imperial theory.

[deft sedge]

for what

[broken echo]

I think it'd be seen as heretical

[brittle slate]

In lore it’s a combination of social engineering, actual belief and pheromones

[willow bramble]

oh uhh here, this was my original question;

Hey guys do you think Sienna's Tattoo would work for a preacher? Seeing as the 2 universes aren't officially linked would the fantasy fire runes on the shoulder and hand be considered xenos and heretical by a preacher? The flames just fit the Preacher really well imo. I know I'm thinking wayy to much into it

[brittle slate]

But there are so few ethereals that just mind control would have never worked

[timid ferry]

Smh GW can’t make up their mind whether they want Tau to be noblebright or grimderp like the rest of 40k. Between the Ethereals possibly controlling their race via pheromones and the 4th sphere expansion killing all its psychic members (humans, Nicassar, etc) things seem to be shifting towards grimderp slowly but surely

[ripe ravine]

I believe it was more that the ethereals weren't that prominent in the early codex lore, or their manipulations weren't really spelled out

so there was this (mostly) benevolent faction with seemingly benevolent leaders

[broken echo]

The social engineering makes sense, but pheremones? That kind of just seems out of thin air

[willow bramble]

and nooo :( flames fit the preacher so well

[deft sedge]

yeah probably

[brittle slate]

Not really. I’ve said it before- they let Reddit influence a lot of their decisions these days

[broken echo]

https://tenor.com/view/arson-fire-anime-angry-gif-22586809

[deft sedge]

dont see an issue

[brittle slate]

The 4th sphere was “concluded”

Their leadership reprimanded and punished

[ripe ravine]

but then later it was more clear what the ethereals were about

[brittle slate]

We’re in the 5th sphere now and the atrocities were “the past”

[willow bramble]

thanks guys <3 I'll stear clear, i'm no heretic :L

[brittle slate]

So- the tau have the scent sensitivity of hound dogs

Pheromonal shifts are just part of their communication

[deft sedge]

that's why they have that big ol crack in they face

[brittle slate]

The ethereals have like a “perfume” called dreamscent which just calms everybody tf down

[ripe ravine]

pheromones are a big part of the ethereal lore yeah

[broken echo]

Ooohhh, I did not know that. Why is that never mentioned in tau lore videos

[deft sedge]

the real question James Workshop needs to answer is do Tau have hooves, or NOT?

[brittle slate]

Because lore videos about tau are BS

[deft sedge]

what is the true lore James

on Tau Feet

[brittle slate]

You should listen to the podcaste

[broken echo]

I hope it's this one

[brittle slate]

Hooves

[deft sedge]

same it's way better

[broken echo]

Adeptus ridiculous?

[deft sedge]

look at ze pictures

[brittle slate]

No it’s a pod cast

[ripe ravine]

reject tau, embrace kroot superiority

[deft sedge]

they have changed the feet

unacceptable

[broken echo]

Also the tau infantry look pretty cool

[rich sail]

tau are bitchezz running their mouth in shoveling range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biNNn0MPMVQ

[brittle slate]

I know I know- and then there’s Shadowsun’s reappearing disappearing nose

[deft sedge]

where is his nose indeed

[brittle slate]

I was the krieger in that scene 🙂

[ripe ravine]

some of the farsight lore is kind of interesting. the tau are basically where humanity was at ten thousand years ago. they are psychically weak so its taking longer

[brittle slate]

Xenology made mistakes. They also forgot the nasal slit

[ripe ravine]

but a big part of their theme is that they haven't quite realized how fucked they are yet

[brittle slate]

I reject.

[brittle slate]

All of Kelly’s lore is incompatible entirely with the rest of Tau lore

[ripe ravine]

uh huh

[deft sedge]

yes but they remembered that eldar bang throughout pregnancy

[brittle slate]

Yeah- very cool

Probably the best eldar lore ever

They poop crystals

[deft sedge]

100% eldar weird as fuck

[broken echo]

If I remember correctly, weren't golden age humans pretty much on the verge of necron technology? Not at it, but pretty impressive non the less. So powerful in fact that didn't the orks accept a non-aggression pact during this time?

[rich sail]

cant wait for the yvrainne guilliman hybrid son super soldier

[brittle slate]

More like eldar tech

[deft sedge]

the xenology thing also has tau psychic shit in it

[broken echo]

If the tau continue developing at the rate they are, maybe they'll achieve similar tech

[brittle slate]

I dub thee troll

[deft sedge]

he got that crystal in his dome

[ripe ravine]

idk about the orks part but yes very powerful tech. maybe not quite necron level

necrons are technological S tier

[deft sedge]

not really

[brittle slate]

Yes- it’s by spurrier but remember the inquisitor is peak unreliable

[rich sail]

the only thing that came close to necrons technology wise were humans pre imperium

[brittle slate]

Eldar.

[deft sedge]

necrons have an observatory which is a 1:1 recreation of the galaxy where if they snuff out a star in the observatory the real thing goes supernova

the celestial orrery

[brittle slate]

High Empire eldar are toe to toe with Necrons

[broken echo]

There was one bit of technology that the golden age humanity had which was on the verge of necron tech, regenerating metal. Too bad the STC for it has been lost for all time

[brittle slate]

The only counter we know the elder had to this were the Blackstones

[broken echo]

This is if hammer and bolter can be considered cannon to the story

[deft sedge]

necrons could literally wipe out terra anytime, yeah

[brittle slate]

Canon is anything that has ever had a 40k logo on it

[deft sedge]

zing

poof

[rich sail]

a tech priest spoke with a human ship that was trapped in the war for millenia from the golden age

"'What shall I not tell them? Who are you to tell such as I what to do and what not to do? Once I gladly called your kind “master”, but look how far you have fallen!’ It was full of scorn. ‘Your ancestors bestrode the universe, and what are you? A witch doctor, mumbling cantrips and casting scented oils at mighty works you have no conception of. You are an ignoramus, a nothing. You are no longer worthy of the name “man”. You look at the science and artistry of your forebears, and you fear it as primitives fear the night. I was there when mankind stood upon the brink of transcendence! I returned to find it sunk into senility. You disgust me."

[deft sedge]

ugh do I hate that book

it's hot trash

any 40k book with that white cover is trash

except maybe the Iron Warriors one

[broken echo]

Was this the ship with an ai?

[brittle slate]

Beauty of the setting is you can just ignore it

[brittle slate]

Yes

Theoretically a “man of iron”

[rich sail]

ye

[deft sedge]

Fall of Damnos is literally so bad it's unignorable

it haunts my nightmares

[broken echo]

What happened to it? Did it leave the milky way galaxy or something?

[brittle slate]

Lol- I feel the same way about the Farsight books

[deft sedge]

yeah it just dipped

[brittle slate]

And Christ Jesus- the Shadowsun novel

[rich sail]

ye it left

[brittle slate]

My living Christ

[deft sedge]

i'll take the farsight books and raise you CS Goto's Dawn of War series

[brittle slate]

It’s bad

[deft sedge]

in which fucking eldar drive a chimera

[brittle slate]

Ooof

[deft sedge]

and the avatar of khaine gets killed by some nameless space marine

https://tenor.com/view/shame-go-t-game-of-thrones-walk-of-shame-shameful-gif-4949558

[broken echo]

I mean fair enough. It's probably the only thing that can do so. I wonder if it'll ever return

[brittle slate]

That’s par for the course

Everyone kills avatars

[deft sedge]

probably not unless they let Guy Haley out of his padded cell

[timid ferry]

Yeah, the shadowsun novel was pretty marginal.

[brittle slate]

Except… tau. Oddly enough

And I think dark eldar now that I think about it

[brittle slate]

Maybe the worst novel I’ve ever read from BL

[deft sedge]

for me the worst book in 40k ever written was Battle for the Abyss

[rich sail]

human ships were able to fire time-traveling black hole and some shit humanity was the hot shit before the corpse on the throne

[broken echo]

I thought it regressed loooonng before that

[deft sedge]

you right

emps was around though the whole time since what like 2000 BCE?

[brittle slate]

I do hate the forever man emperor

He was cooler when he was the last Man of Gold imo

[deft sedge]

lmao you think the Emperor being Napoleon is stupid?

jeez dont work for GW

haha

[brittle slate]

But yeah- he’s been around that long

Lol

[brittle slate]

Fair

[deft sedge]

lmao emperor's origin or ollanius pius, which change is stupider?

fuck do I hate perpetuals

[brittle slate]

Uuuugh. Ollanius. For sure.

[rich sail]

its not confirmed is it? like you can still choose to believe what u want about his origins, i believe he was justa lucky warlord at the right time at the right place getting his hands on some high tech weaponry from the good old times

[brittle slate]

I hate perpetuals

Jinx

[deft sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-handshake-muscle-strong-man-gif-5783927

[brittle slate]

Yes

[deft sedge]

emperor is now a canonically a perpetual, yeah.

[broken echo]

I've only heard one origin for the emperor, though I doubt it's cannon anymore

[timid ferry]

I dislike anything to do with the Horus heresy. By creating that series GW completely destroyed the mystique of the imperiums past

[dusk patrol]

We have no canon origins

Just possibilities

[brittle slate]

Some of them are great stories

[broken echo]

The one where a bunch of psykers mushed their souls together to form one being in order to avoid dying

[brittle slate]

But, as soon as we got POV primarch stories I kind of got off board

[dusk patrol]

It’s a mixed bag, there’s some great stuff

Some not as good stuff

Just depends on the authors mostly

[brittle slate]

Yeah this was 3rd ed

[dusk patrol]

I’ve enjoyed the siege mostly

[deft sedge]

over the years there has been
a) he's just some guy
b) he's a guy with good shit
c) he's a guy who was created by all the shamans on earth praying real hard
d) he's a reincarnating force of nature made by the human race
e) he is a Man of Gold
f) he is an immortal asshole created by the Illuminati

F is where we stand today

[timid ferry]

Now we know exactly what happened to space marine character idgaf about #3483 10,000 years ago and what became of him and how it influenced his chapter since

[dusk patrol]

It’s just one theory or possibility now

[dusk patrol]

Ok then don’t read it

[broken echo]

Man of gold?

[deft sedge]

yeah it's based on the old Greek creation myth

[dusk patrol]

Like idk, it doesn’t matter if you don’t read it

[rich sail]

what bout the theory that he made a deal with the chaos gods and tried to screw them over at some point hence the horus heresy

[deft sedge]

Men of Iron Men of Gold Men of Bronze etc

[broken echo]

Ah dammit why don't I remember that

[deft sedge]

you know the myth with that giant statue made of that shit?

[dusk patrol]

That’s kinda implied in one of the books

[brittle slate]

That’s always been

[dusk patrol]

It’s not clear what happened

[brittle slate]

As far as I know

[broken echo]

vaguely remember it

[dusk patrol]

And the gods aren’t exactly trustworthy

[brittle slate]

Neither is the emperor

[deft sedge]

'cause it's stupid and the Greeks didn't know anything
humankind was created by Hashem OBVIOUSLY

[brittle slate]

Lol

[dusk patrol]

The Emperor hasn’t even commented on it

All we have is their take

So it’s unclear basically

But whatever happened it made them upset

[broken echo]

I wonder if games workshop will genuinely kill the emperor off or commit xeno technology to save them. Killing them would most likely kill the galaxy

[deft sedge]

I'd like to show the Emperor a little thing called the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu

fuckin ignorance I tell ya

[rich sail]

save

the galaxy

[brittle slate]

The rumor was they were going to

Kill the emperor that is

[deft sedge]

yeah

Star Childe

[brittle slate]

In the “50k” rumor at the start of 8th Ed

[celest dome]

Plenty or rumours

[dusk patrol]

Not really

[deft sedge]

but have you considered the Illuminati???? clearly BL has

[dusk patrol]

The Imperium losing doesn’t mean everyone else wins

It most likely means chaos mostly wins

The Imperium sucks but it’s a lot better than a Chaos victory

[timid ferry]

That depends if they learned their lesson with end times. By progressing the timeline to the point an ultimate winner is decided, they piss off a large portion of their fanbase. And pissed fans don’t spend nearly as much money. Stagnancy sells

[deft sedge]

now you tell me if the Emperor is so great how did he get choked out by literal fungus on Ullanor?

[rich sail]

the warp is a reflection of real space if humanity dies out the warp will eventually tame out its the main reason for alpha legions betrayal too kill humanity to save life in the galaxy

[deft sedge]

Emperor vs. Mushrooms

[dusk patrol]

That’s one theory made by a crackpot cabal

[deft sedge]

nah dude. other xenos races outnumber humanity in terms of emotion

[dusk patrol]

Who got killed for being insane

Also the warp sucked before humanity

[deft sedge]

been that way since the war in heaven

[broken echo]

True. Even the fans of the "winning" faction probably won't be all that happy either

[dusk patrol]

There’s no guaranteed humanity dying out would fix shit

[rich sail]

well yes necrons and eldar were first to fuck the warp up with their warring

[dusk patrol]

The warp can’t be calmed is the most likely answer

It’s self sustaining now basically

[broken echo]

Didn't they accidentally create the chaos gods?

[deft sedge]

yeah cant put the genie back in the bottle

nah its dumber lol

WAY DUMBER

nurgle was created by the black plague

LMAO LOL

[rich sail]

the eldar yes

[deft sedge]

you are WRONG sir

do not redeem

they created Slaanesh

Khorne was created during the Middle Ages

[rich sail]

yeah just slaneesh lol i assumed he meant slaanesh

[dusk patrol]

We don’t know how the other three formed

[deft sedge]

"also lol lmao"

[deft sedge]

we sure do buddy

[dusk patrol]

He wasn’t

That’s old outdated lore

[broken echo]

But the war created the other 3 by filling the warp with emotions such as rage and despair

[deft sedge]

LOL "old outdated lore"

LOL

[broken echo]

Right?

[deft sedge]

lmao even

[dusk patrol]

It is

[deft sedge]

I wont argue it with you

[dusk patrol]

Give me a source on it then

[deft sedge]

it's not worth my time

nope I don't care about your ignorance, it's not my responsibility my friend

I do love you though

[dusk patrol]

Uh huh

Sounds like a lack of not outdated source issue

[ripe ravine]

for real though the dark gods were created well before human history

[rich sail]

i m not even sure anymore lol but the chaos gods always were like foces of nature the filling of the warp with souls from the war only made it so that the warp truned into a hellscape

[timid ferry]

Lore is as relevant or as outdated as the plot demands

[deft sedge]

who gives a shit what you think about the lore 😂

[broken echo]

Aren't humans a late old ones creation? The last thing they made before going

[dusk patrol]

I mean I don’t think anyone cares about what any of us think

[deft sedge]

but yeah the source is the Lost and the Damned

[broken echo]

Why did the old ones even bother creating humanity?

[dusk patrol]

I mean an actual excerpt

[deft sedge]

current lore is they predate mankind but "became conscious" during the middle ages

[dusk patrol]

They didn’t

[broken echo]

Oh

[urban spire]

humanity would be way less messy if we were made by aliens, i'm sure

[dusk patrol]

They made Eldar and Orks

[broken echo]

Guess I must be misremembering stuff

[acoustic copper]

Don't mind him, Give Sauce is just in a pissy mood 'cos I corrected him earlier so he's all "BuT thE LoRe DoeSn'T MaTteR" - except, apparently, when he's quoting it

[deft sedge]

lol cry more

it's not my fault you're a child

enjoy the block

[wind heron]

whats a scab supposed to be?

[acoustic copper]

it's just a term they use in darktide

[urban spire]

moebian 6th, a regiment of the imperial guard fallen to chaos

[wind heron]

oh

[urban spire]

that's why they're all tactical

[wind heron]

I see

they an elite guard regiment?

[deft sedge]

not really veteran

more experienced

[rustic spruce]

Scab’s are a word for contemptible people

[deft sedge]

it's also a joke because the hab is on strike

hence they are scabs

[ripe ravine]

I don't believe they are stormtroopers but they were renowned veterans

[wind heron]

lol

[deft sedge]

but also, like, gross scab

[wind heron]

I see but they joinee nurgle now?

[dusk patrol]

I think the gunners are supposed to be

Maybe the Maulers too

[ripe ravine]

yeah probably some of the specials

the entire regiment was corrupted into the service of nurgle yes

[urban spire]

the moebian 6th fell to chaos because they were pushed too hard for too long, saw too many horrors of war in the sector

[wind heron]

I see

[urban spire]

so many of them would be veterans

[wind heron]

so were like I quit and join chaos?

[brittle slate]

That’s a supremely easy thing to google

[acoustic copper]

and so the solution is to take us, and put us through repeated horrors for too long

[dusk patrol]

Can you rephrase that

[ripe ravine]

it's usually a bit more complicated than that but yes

they were like "I quit and join chaos"

[wind heron]

I see, do people often join chaos cos of bad conditions?

[dusk patrol]

Sometimes yeah

[ripe ravine]

yes often

[dusk patrol]

There’s a lot of reasons

[urban spire]

the actual process of falling to chaos doesn't come up much because chaos is so much of a saturday morning cartoon villain that it's hard to imagine anyone thinking they're the better alternative

[dusk patrol]

But that’s often one

[deft sedge]

definitely

some people join chaos without knowing

[ripe ravine]

yeah for sure not the only reason people turn

[brittle slate]

Exactly.

[dusk patrol]

Often times it’s kinda malicious in how it slowly creeps up on you

[acoustic copper]

Chaos doesn't always present itself as tentacles and mutations and daemons, sometimes it's "hey, your life is a bit shit, do you want the power to do something about it?"

[dusk patrol]

By the time you realize it’s too late

[wind heron]

I see, even Orks arent dumb enough to 😆

[deft sedge]

yeah for a goof case read Dark Apostle by Mark Chambers

or andy chambers i forget

[ripe ravine]

dissatisfaction with the imperium is a common one though. plenty of rebellions begin with genuine grievances against the establishment but are infiltrated by agents of chaos

[dusk patrol]

It’s often like “oh well ok maybe if I just do this a bit”

[vocal drum]

question about space marines

[urban spire]

though if i had to guess, i would say that nurgle offers relief from suffering, which is what appealed to the folk of the moebian 6th

[acoustic copper]

oh they have

[dusk patrol]

Is this question going to be easy to google Bunny?

[deft sedge]

sometimes you fall to chaos because someone literally staples a chaos star to your head

sad shit

[dusk patrol]

Because if it is

I’m gonna be disappointed

[wind heron]

I guess join chaos if you would be killed by Inquisitors anyways

[urban spire]

i support asking questions to human people over a search engine any day

[deft sedge]

nah never worth it

[dusk patrol]

So the thing is

[deft sedge]

chaos in 40k is always evil

[dusk patrol]

It’s worse than death often

[deft sedge]

categorically

[brittle slate]

There are chaos orks

[wind heron]

Really?

[dusk patrol]

It’s never a good choice

Ever

[urban spire]

chaos orks are REALLY rare

[deft sedge]

khorne has a chaos ork champion

he loves him

[dusk patrol]

Especially not for the dregs of the Imperium

[ripe ravine]

yeah 'life' under chaos is...very unpleasant

[wind heron]

Oh

[acoustic copper]

Read the wrong book. Eat the wrong thing. Listen to the wrong piece of music, stay near the wrong area - you can be corrupted by almost anything, which is why the Imperium stamps down so hard on any knowledge of chaos, because even knowing about it is dangerous

[crisp heath]

Even if you want to secede from the Imperium you'd probably be best fit to do it while keeping your soul

[dusk patrol]

Look at how shitty the places we visit are

[wind heron]

Better to join chaos if you arent a scrub?

[dusk patrol]

And how the poxwalkers are suffering

[ripe ravine]

some daemons even have the power to prolong your suffering

beyond mortal limits

[rustic spruce]

Any chaos ork tends to be short lived

[dusk patrol]

A little

[deft sedge]

greebles the actual lore buff

respec

[dusk patrol]

But not always

[rustic spruce]

They get krumped pretty fast

[brittle slate]

Joining chaos should be a good indicator of how awful the imperium is

[ripe ravine]

chaos does tend to reward competence and aggressiveness

[deft sedge]

postin hot facts

[deft sedge]

unless they are literally immortal

[brittle slate]

"Sacrifice my child and grow an extra eyeball to stop being hungry and worked to death? Yeah, I mean, yeah that's a great choice!"

[ripe ravine]

but live by the social darwinist culture, die by the social darwinist culture

[deft sedge]

like the ones on khornes daemon world

who are resurrected daily

like valhalla

[dusk patrol]

Tuska Daemonkilla is like

The most basic intro lore ngl

[urban spire]

the poxwalkers and plague zombies are under the control of chaos, however the conscious mind of the people they once were is trapped inside the rotting body, watching in silent horror :)

[brittle slate]

yeah, but there are chaos eldar, orks, genestealer cults

[dusk patrol]

I feel like every basic loretuber talks about it

[rustic spruce]

Well those aren’t really chaos orks, tuska just really likes fighting chaos

[deft sedge]

chaos eldar dangerous as fuck

[rustic spruce]

He doesn’t worship khorne

[brittle slate]

almost anything with psyker potential is at risk

[dusk patrol]

He inadvertently sorta does

[acoustic copper]

Every xenos army in 40k has some bullshit excuse about why Chaos or genestealer corruption is rare, because that way GW don't have to answer awkward questions about why they aren't on the tabletop

[wind heron]

Yea I guess at least joining Chaos means you can kill some imperials 😆

[dusk patrol]

Although if it empowers him idk

[brittle slate]

and be free

[crisp heath]

I dunno if I'd call that sobbing in game silent...

[dusk patrol]

Yeah we have very few examples of Chaos Eldar

[deft sedge]

dont need to worship chaos to be a chaos warrior tbh of any race

[dusk patrol]

But we do have a couple

[deft sedge]

thats mostly cause they are pants on head op

with no power restrictions on psyker

[brittle slate]

that's kinda of true

[dusk patrol]

Also most are daemon princes

[deft sedge]

running around like fall of heaven eldar

[rustic spruce]

Genestealers also have an extremely bad time infiltrating ork camps

[brittle slate]

the act of doing "anything" feeds the warp

[acoustic copper]

Chaos Eldar champions are supposed to be among the most powerful followers of chaos

[deft sedge]

good examples in both fantasy and 40k

[wind heron]

Are Daemon Princes good to go?

[brittle slate]

and eldar and tau

but there are examples

[crisp heath]

wat is going on here

[deft sedge]

yeah fulgrim is pretty hot

wdym

[brittle slate]

an inquisitor is about to suction kill a chaos eldar obviously

[ripe ravine]

good to go? like are they handsome

[wind heron]

Like if you make it to Daemon Prince, was smart idea to join Chaos and all?

[deft sedge]

not really

[ripe ravine]

ahhh

[deft sedge]

it sucks ass

[brittle slate]

um... yeah i mean

[wind heron]

😔

[brittle slate]

you get to be immortal, doing your thing probably ruling a planet in the warp

[acoustic copper]

imagine being a Genestealer, genetically engineered to be the best infiltration lifeform, and then finding out that even the fucking Tau can detect your infections

[brittle slate]

if that's what you're into

[ripe ravine]

well, I guess that depends on your perspective

[rustic spruce]

Magnus spends every day knowing he got fucked over

[deft sedge]

personally i think becoming an immortal rape murder disease or spooky bird daemon is “bad”

[brittle slate]

yeah

but... no judgy

[ripe ravine]

daemon princes are mortals granted daemonhood, so there's probably not much left of the person you started out as

[crisp heath]

is there a single daemon prince which is also canonically happy with the outcome

[wind heron]

But compared to being killed by the imperium or something

[brittle slate]

"even"? how dare you sir

[ripe ravine]

things are pretty good for the person you've become in a hellraiser kind of way

[deft sedge]

killed is preferable

daemonhood is a lie

[acoustic copper]

well, I mean the Tau are the youngest of the major races

[brittle slate]

probably just the worst parts

[ripe ravine]

but the dark gods have a way of turning your desires into punishments

[wind heron]

I see

[deft sedge]

chaos is just a bad deal always

because of the satanic panic in the 80s

its gw policy

[brittle slate]

lol

[rustic spruce]

Ahriman was promised the best thing a chaos god could give him, suicide

[wind heron]

So best is just kill some Imperials trying to kill you without joining Cjaos?

[brittle slate]

what?

[deft sedge]

best bet is to just shoot yourself at birth with your little baby fingers

warhammer blows

[crisp heath]

The best is to reform the imperium from within

[brittle slate]

or... join the tau

[deft sedge]

fuck blue hoof people

i said it

[ripe ravine]

I think they are looking for a best case scenario as humanity in 40k

[rustic spruce]

I’d rather not be sterilized by the tau

[wind heron]

yea life seems kinda depressing and all

[ripe ravine]

it's all pretty bleak

[deft sedge]

thats the point there isnt one

[dusk patrol]

The best thing is be born a high ranking noble

[deft sedge]

its a grimdark setting

[dusk patrol]

And just live your life on a pleasure boat

[brittle slate]

that's not really a thing

[ripe ravine]

yeah be high ranking noble live the life of the 1%

[deft sedge]

its like when is the best case scenario for being born in 1100s england

[wind heron]

Taus are communists rigjt?

[deft sedge]

you are gonna die

[brittle slate]

and even then your kids will kill you

[brittle slate]

no.

[acoustic copper]

where we'll mind control you, trick you into slavery and slowly sterilize your outposts until you die off completely 😆

[brittle slate]

Like... please. No.

The memes... THE MEMES

[brittle slate]

again, not really a thing

[wind heron]

oof i thoight they had an utopian collectivist society

[deft sedge]

tau are not communist because the people do not own the means of production

[acoustic copper]

tell that to the Vespid

[deft sedge]

read marx

[ripe ravine]

they are more or less

some people just have very strong tau opinions

[brittle slate]

I... can't? But read the new xenologus book

[deft sedge]

lmao they are not

[wind heron]

I seee

[brittle slate]

they aren't mind controlled

[wind heron]

Ooh neat bjt they can mind cpntrol others?

[brittle slate]

Tau aren't a utopian society

but they are a post-scarcity society

[wind heron]

oh oof

[brittle slate]

no.

[wind heron]

Hey thats pretty good

[crisp heath]

Tau are a caste system which prioritize their own species over others, people say they are nice because they treat non-members of their species as second class citizens instead of killing, enslaving , or torturing them like everyone else

[deft sedge]

tau aint communist because communism is an economic theory they have no need of lol

its like saying star trek is communist

[brittle slate]

Again, not really.

[deft sedge]

it dont make no fuckin sense

[crisp heath]

How am I wrong?

[brittle slate]

I don't mean to be beating a drum, but if you actually look at tau lore there are plenty of grimdark moments that aren't derpy

[wind heron]

An improvement!

[storm jungle]

Merican is right tho

[brittle slate]

Tau don't prioritize their own species. They also don't rule other species

[storm jungle]

Thats literally what the tau do

[storm jungle]

They dont rule, as much as "oversee"

[sweet nexus]

I heard girlyman tried to reform but he realized inquisition is too powerful and won't accept his reforms so he just reform his ultramarine sector right?

[brittle slate]

Okay- so before this starts: I am specifically not talking about Kelly lore because it doesn't fit with the rest of Tau lore

[wind heron]

oh so Tau are a race themselves?

[deft sedge]

kinda macragge has always been his own thing

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/T'au

[deft sedge]

eg imperium secundus

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/boondocks-read-rap-fans-exorcism-uncle-ruckus-gif-23038600

[brittle slate]

Yes, the Tau are the primary species in a commonwealth of at least 30 other races

[deft sedge]

you got lizard people in there

bird people

cow people

fuckin bug people

[brittle slate]

At this point they're basically 5 sub-species under the umbrella of "tau"

[deft sedge]

its a thing

[wind heron]

Are they like High Elves from fantasy?

[deft sedge]

nah thats eldar

[ripe ravine]

no they're blue

[deft sedge]

literally

[brittle slate]

eldar

[ripe ravine]

and they have no noses

[wind heron]

oh

[deft sedge]

eldar

[wind heron]

so Lizardmen?

[ripe ravine]

well they do but they don't

[crisp heath]

A human or a kroot is never obtaining similar rank or command ability as a fire warrior or an ethereal, and there's no way the tau are going to prioritize the survival of other species in their collective over other tau, this isn't unfair from their perspective imo but they're hardly egalitarian or anything

[brittle slate]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-handshake-arnold-schwarzenegger-carl-weathers-gif-17765053

[brittle slate]

They do

[deft sedge]

tau got no equivalent

big reason why theyre new

[brittle slate]

There are human XV8 Commanders

[wind heron]

oof

[dusk patrol]

It’s not common but it does happen

[brittle slate]

There are Kroot that lead Tau units

[deft sedge]

lizardmen are necrons kind of

mostly tomb kings tho

[dusk patrol]

Generally though you’re gonna be second class

[storm jungle]

Lizardmen already existed with the Slaan more or less

but they are uh

OLD

[dusk patrol]

Slann are lizards yeah

[wind heron]

How bout the Skaven?

[dusk patrol]

Not frogs like in fantasy

[storm jungle]

Skaven dont exist in 40k

[dusk patrol]

I think RT era had space ratmen

[deft sedge]

skaven equivalent is tyranids

[dusk patrol]

But they’re not relevant

[storm jungle]

Yeah thats Slaan™️, BIG DIFFERENCE 🧠

[deft sedge]

in terms of horde army

[wind heron]

Any equiv to evil rat people?

[storm jungle]

Imperium

[dusk patrol]

Completely different

[storm jungle]

[acoustic copper]

they concepted some space skaven but never went anywhere with it

[dusk patrol]

Next you’ll call Fantays Orcs, Orks

[crisp heath]

Are there any kroot or human leaders of say, a tau sept?

[dusk patrol]

Silly

[brittle slate]

They specifically do this during the attack on Gladius Prime where they prioritize evacuating the Greet

[wind heron]

You're right!

[brittle slate]

No, those are Tau Septs

just as there are no Tau leaders of Kroot worlds or Human colonies

or Tau leaders of Nicassar Lifefleets

[wind heron]

Imperium hive cities even forced to eat each other right?

[brittle slate]

Corpse Starch is GOOD FOR YOU

[deft sedge]

“forced”

they GET TO

[brittle slate]

I'm first in line for breakfast

[wind heron]

👀

[deft sedge]

cant leave that prote lying around

[acoustic copper]

not "forced to", it's just the most efficient way to feed that many people

[dusk patrol]

Also corpse starch is a lot less common than the memes say

[ripe ravine]

corpse starch is part of a well balanced breakfast

[brittle slate]

on a side note this is how the Tau took an entire Hive World without having to fire a shot

[deft sedge]

i would eat a person in the 40th millennium

[wind heron]

So literally Skaven

[rustic spruce]

When your population is in the trillions you gotta get creative with food

[brittle slate]

they just literally helped the bureaucracy function better to get food to people

[acoustic copper]

you can try and grow vegetables under 50 miles of metal if you want to

[storm jungle]

Most of the food the common people eat is just grox or common tasteless gruel

its not always corpse-food

[wind heron]

and Imperium keep tons of slaves right that they use as cannon fodder?

[storm jungle]

Yeah

[ripe ravine]

are we the ratmen?

[deft sedge]

morning noon and night gruel

[dusk patrol]

Also Agriworlds

[deft sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/the-worst-thing-about-prison-was-the-dementors-dementors-prison-azkaban-harry-potter-gif-15661490

[dusk patrol]

Produces a shitton a food

[storm jungle]

Theres actually some hab-block in the game that is trying to grow veggies in their apartment room

but its like

a super tiny pot

[wind heron]

and the imperium breeds rapidly with short lifespans?

[storm jungle]

lmao

[storm jungle]

Literally us rn yes

[acoustic copper]

most food is from agri-worlds, but even they would struggle to get enough food for a hive world and distribute it to everyone

[dusk patrol]

Look there’s some funny things you can make which vaguely connect to Skaven but like

[storm jungle]

If theres one things humans are good at its to breed/die fast lol

[dusk patrol]

The core of the factions are very different

It mostly just boils down to they’re both numerous

[wind heron]

They both like guns too

[brittle slate]

...

[dusk patrol]

They also both breath air

[brittle slate]

And they both have hands.

[ripe ravine]

well that confirms it

[dusk patrol]

Two ears

Mostly

[deft sedge]

skaven are too cool for 40k unfortunately

[brittle slate]

Teeth.

[dusk patrol]

Add or subtract

[deft sedge]

too much personality

they’d have to boil skaven for 2 hrs so they could fit them in 40k

[ripe ravine]

have you ever seen the emperor and the great horned rat in the same room?

think about it

[deft sedge]

as “ratmyn”

the leader of the skaven would be Skave Bigclaw

and hes just big

a big rat

with power armor

[wind heron]

Thats true, humans also obsessively worship a potential chaos god

[acoustic copper]

Mantic do a space-ratmen race called the veer-myn

[wind heron]

and said chaos god also consumes a lot of his own worshippers

[deft sedge]

crackin a couple psykers open with the boys

[crisp heath]

they do exist and they're called humans

[rustic spruce]

Humans don’t exist

[wind heron]

Imperium does work a lot better as a Skaven expy than Empire 😆

[rustic spruce]

They’re a myth

[crisp heath]

wait until the space marines find out there's a skeleton hiding inside them right now

[deft sedge]

middenheim = macragge

the truth shocks

[ripe ravine]

stormfiend or ogryn

[deft sedge]

def stormfiend but not the gun chest one

[wind heron]

Space Marines are like Stormvermin

[rustic spruce]

Greentide dlc for darktide when

[deft sedge]

can we get the game first lol before the dlc

https://tenor.com/view/made-myself-sad-futurama-professor-farnsworth-gif-4865774

[wind heron]

Is game actually EA?

[rustic spruce]

Perpetual dlc releases so that we’re always in early access

[brittle slate]

Done.

[acoustic copper]

Clawtide for GSC content

[brittle slate]

And they have to move on to the rest of the races

Like, Eldar 4 man teams, Tau 4 man teams and so on

[wind heron]

Can we get some microtransactions to be able craft weapons?

[deft sedge]

hahaha

[acoustic copper]

Crisis suit OP, plz nerf

[rustic spruce]

It was neat to see the rebreather cosmetic for ogryn muffled his voice

[wind heron]

Are average members of other races better off than humans?

[deft sedge]

orks yes

having a blast

[acoustic copper]

as far as we have seen yes

[deft sedge]

livin life

[wind heron]

I see

[rustic spruce]

Orkz iz always happy

[acoustic copper]

except maybe the dark eldar

[brittle slate]

Tau, and humans that live with Tau

you get to retire

[wind heron]

ooh neat

[deft sedge]

exodite eldar

havin a good time

[brittle slate]

except when they're in prison

[deft sedge]

bangin on dinosaurs backs

[wind heron]

we don even get that irl

[brittle slate]

exodites, yeah

[acoustic copper]

your low-level necrons and Tyranids are barely sentient anyway so it doesn't matter if their lives are shit or not tbh

[deft sedge]

everyones hot

cause they eldar

must be cool life

[wind heron]

Ohh i see

[rustic spruce]

Tau’s faces when orkz commence da big raid

[wind heron]

nevrpns like undead right?

necrons

[deft sedge]

yeah its shit to be a necron

[rustic spruce]

Get cool guns tho

[deft sedge]

shittier than a human? i dunno

[rustic spruce]

So there’s that

[wind heron]

were necrons human?

[deft sedge]

nah

[rustic spruce]

Trazyn’s having a grand ol time

[deft sedge]

they were necrontyr

[acoustic copper]

I mean at least your average necron warrior isn't aware his life is shit, so that's gotta be better than humans

[deft sedge]

space egyptians

[wind heron]

How bout average Daemon?

[deft sedge]

uhhh

arguably sentient

[acoustic copper]

the average daemon is literally part of their god

[deft sedge]

theyre little shards of their gods

[crisp heath]

No

[wind heron]

oh

[crisp heath]

daemons are fully sentient

see: Skarbrand.

[rustic spruce]

You either a greater daemon or higher or your a chump

[wind heron]

are the gods sentient?

[crisp heath]

and: The Masque

[acoustic copper]

yes

[crisp heath]

In our way no

but aware yes

[deft sedge]

more like forces of nature

[crisp heath]

think of them like.. being destined to fill their role in a play.

[wind heron]

Are they living their best lives?

[deft sedge]

smart enough to be dicks

nurgle is

having a blast

[brittle slate]

but also it's like being a fish

[crisp heath]

No.

[acoustic copper]

warp energy gets more and more sentient the more of it gathers together. the gods have on multiple occasions been described as sentient warp storms

[crisp heath]

Slaanesh hates themselves

[brittle slate]

with anything bigger able to eat you

[wind heron]

I see so average god is doing pretty good?

[crisp heath]

Khorne only cares about war.

[deft sedge]

well its a god

good is not relevant

[crisp heath]

yeah.

[deft sedge]

they just are

[crisp heath]

Only the gods matter

and marines, by proxy of fuck ups

[acoustic copper]

I mean, what's an "average" god anyway?

[crisp heath]

there is none

Every god is every bit as unique

[deft sedge]

theres also tons of gods now gw is going back to that

[crisp heath]

as the average custodian

[deft sedge]

vashtor

not malal

[crisp heath]

Mhm

Vashtor based

still sad it wasnt

the lady daemon prince

[wind heron]

I thought there were elf gods too

[crisp heath]

that was teased

but meh

[wind heron]

or i

[crisp heath]

There are

[deft sedge]

yeah but they all got killed

[crisp heath]

The Eldar Pantheon is also

dead

[acoustic copper]

there are minor gods that are barely anything, Daemonic patrons, all the way up to the big 4 so depending on how you're measuring it an "average" god is probably only worshipped by a system or two and barely has any power anyway

[wind heron]

eldar gods

[deft sedge]

except cegoraxh

and khaine arguably

[crisp heath]

besides funnily, the god of the dead, and the god of jokes

[deft sedge]

he got blown up

and later recylced

for magnus lore

[brittle slate]

the "smaller god" thing is bs imo

[deft sedge]

Shards of Magnus great name for a band

[brittle slate]

the whole point of the last 10k years was that the chaos gods were gobbling up all the lesser gods

[acoustic copper]

complain to GW about it, they wrote it

[brittle slate]

The AOS'ification of 40k is blegh

it means every single Chaos* Primarch is a god

[crisp heath]

no

uts not AoS-efication

[wind heron]

why is there no Order god?

[deft sedge]

cause its all kids now in the hobby

[crisp heath]

this has been a thing since 5th edition

[deft sedge]

as evident from this server

[crisp heath]

There is

[deft sedge]

lel

[crisp heath]

his name is the Emperor.

[brittle slate]

Charabael refers to himself as a god

and the Emperor was the only other being becoming a god

[crisp heath]

and ynnaed

[acoustic copper]

1st*

[crisp heath]

yes, sorry

[brittle slate]

Ynnead was in 8th and already a god entity

[wind heron]

I thought hes a fledgling Chaos god too like Slaanesh

[crisp heath]

No

The Emperor was a "human"

[wind heron]

oh

[brittle slate]

Yes, now every idea is a god. I call BS.

[rustic spruce]

Emp’s is anthenema to the chaos gods

[crisp heath]

that is how the warp works, yes

unaligned daemons are, by mortal perspective- gods.

[wind heron]

was slaanesh an elf?

[crisp heath]

no

[acoustic copper]

no

[crisp heath]

The God Emperor is hard to explain-

[wind heron]

😔

[acoustic copper]

people don't become gods, any more than people become tornadoes

[crisp heath]

let me set the stage:

[acoustic copper]

the Emperor is an exception because so many people worship him directly and he's such a powerful psyker being fed souls constantly

[crisp heath]

So

in the beginning

[wind heron]

How come elves don have their own god emperor smh

[crisp heath]

there is around.. three likely canidates for how the emperor became a being

[acoustic copper]

First, there were these 12 guys on a mountain...

[crisp heath]

one: Thousands upon Thousands of Rituallistic Shaman-Psykers killing themselves

and fusing their soul into one super-being

[brittle slate]

that's how it used to work

[crisp heath]

Two: The Emperor is biblical seth, as suggested in the Book master of Mankind

[brittle slate]

the whole point of the 4 main chaos gods is that everything, with some few exceptions, was absorbed into them

[acoustic copper]

[Citation Needed]

[crisp heath]

His uncle committed murder on his brother

which was the first murder

this makes him biblical seth, though unlikely to be his actual name

[brittle slate]

And according to one account

it's not necessarily the only origin

[wind heron]

can the emperor beat up the chaos gods?

[brittle slate]

or, excuse me, is expressly not the only origin

[brittle slate]

he can now...

[acoustic copper]

when he dies, maybe

[crisp heath]

Yes

im saying

multiple origins

[brittle slate]

he just bitch slapped nurgle.

so dumb.

[crisp heath]

3. The Dark Age of Technology created him as a "Man of Gold"

this one has no evidence backing it

but, the man of gold exist

[wind heron]

like literally?

[crisp heath]

no

set his realm aflame

[wind heron]

slapped nurgle silly?

so arson?

[crisp heath]

The Final, my Favorite: The Last Old One's ace in the hole

Basically, what do you all know on hrud pantheon?

[acoustic copper]

oh god people are actually taking that one seriously?

[crisp heath]

its my favorite because its silly

like 40k should be.

[brittle slate]

he cut him

[wind heron]

How upset was Nurgle?

[storm jungle]

He was a little iffed

like

[crisp heath]

After all the old gods were killed, one survived and hid within the Warp. Then she was "born in the longears' brain," and the Chaos God Slaanesh, "chops him a million times and kicks the shards out into the cold. To Linger, she says to linger like always." An incredible account, despite its lack of credibility or comprehensibility.

[storm jungle]

the Emperor disrespected him a lil bit

[acoustic copper]

I preferred the "he's the reincarnated souls of the 12 shamen on ancient earth who realised they could no longer reincarnate because Chaos had taken over the Warp so they formed a single being to house all their knowledge and power and lead humanity to destroying Chaos forever" one

[crisp heath]

I dont like it

for the simple reason is it makes the emperor forever right.

Which he almost never is right

if that makes sense

the two other increase the realization that- he was wrong

he did everything wrong-

he took power from chaos.

[wind heron]

yea hes kinda evil

[brittle slate]

Very.

[crisp heath]

the 12 shaman's theory

doesnt back that up

[acoustic copper]

not really. just because 12 old guys think something doesn't make it true

[storm jungle]

He isnt right tho

[storm jungle]

This lmao

[brittle slate]

And all the man of gold stuff is from one of the 40k creators

[crisp heath]

Are there any books that are more interested in the more mundane aspects of living in hive cities?

[brittle slate]

so it's not "in canon" it's from interviews

[crisp heath]

Sure

however, its cool, so

[storm jungle]

ALL the Warhammer Crime books

[crisp heath]

Oooooo

also

Noted

pretty much a David Bowie reference

so, i tip my hat.

[acoustic copper]

oh well if we're going for "it's cool" then I think the Emperor is Optimus Prime and the astronomican is the Allspark

[brittle slate]

the Golden Men were a genetically engineered master race, with selective breeding kind of like in 'Dune'. The Iron Men were, obviously, machines. The stone in Stone Men refers to silicon, as in they are organic intelligence, created artificially. I like to think of them like the Thirteenth Tribe from 'Battlestar Galactica', the organic cylons who left Kobol and began their own civilisation. ~Merrian

According to ancient sources, the Men of Gold appeared sometime during the Age of Terra, joining the Emperor as he watched and nurtured humanity. To watch and learn from Mankind, the Golden Race spreads across the face of Old Earth, multiplying and establishing Order and Civilization on the anarchy of Nature. Though physically and emotionally superior, the Golden Race eventually created the Men of Stone for the purpose of colonizing the Galaxy.[2] In time, the Men of Stone supplanted the Men of Gold and by M21 their influence had waned.[1] It is ultimately unknown what happened to the Men of Gold.

[crisp heath]

you see

my current thing is like-

[wind heron]

I like tje idea that emps is the Great Horned Rat

[crisp heath]

Some of the lore, kinda hates me

So i kinda am just trying to find an even ground to sit on

because i wanna write cool badass woman who fuck shit up

[obtuse flume]

.

[brittle slate]

*And so it was that in the First Age of Man, the Golden Age, there is the Emperor Unseen and unheralded he prepares the Old Earth for the coming of Mankind and he watches and he waits. He is joined by the First Men of the Golden Race, fine of limb and strong of mind, yet still the Emperor is content to wait in shadow. To watch and learn from Mankind, the Golden Race spreads across the face of Old Earth, multiplying and establishing Order and Civilisation on the anarchy of Nature. In time, the Second Men of the Stone Race appear, and in their wake come many miracles and marvels of technology that strengthen to Stone Men’s power, but are also harnessed by those of the Golden Race. Although physically inferior to the Golden Race, and not of philosophical temperament and disposition, the Stone Men have in them the conjurations of great artifices and mechanisms. In time, the Golden Race looks to the stars to expand their dominion. The Stone Race builds great machines of power that send both Men of Stone and Men of Gold into the Ether. However, once the burgeoning race of Mankind has taken its first steps into the greater cosmos, the Golden Race dwindles in influence through their dependence on the artifices of the Stone Race. This the Golden Age comes to an end and the Stone Men prevail.

Our calculations, from the most distant and archaic records, and through constellar comparison, have dated the end of the Golden Age at 20.000 years previous to our present time.

For the next 5.000 years, the Stone Race lives through the Dark Age of Technology. Little can be determined from the Dark Age of Technology, for the majority of existing records concerning that period are gathered in the Librarius Omnis of Mars, and none outside the highest ranks of the Adeptus Mechanicus can gain access past its most determined Guardians. Keeper Malrubius tried once, but to no avail. We have surmised that during the Dark Age of Technology, the Men of Stone create the Iron Men to help them in the building of their Great Empire. At first, the Iron Men are as servants, willing to do the bidding of their masters with no thoughts.

However, the Iron Men, as all creatures do, evolve and grow until they are the equal of the Stone Race and beside each other they set about conquering the galaxy. The Dark Age of Technology is an era of machines and artificial devices, used by the Stone Men, and later the Iron Men, in their endeavours. Many of the technical marvels that the Priesthood of Mars sustain can be traced to their origins in the Dark Age of Technology, and it is at the end of this period that the great organisation know now as the Adeptus Mechanicus was founded. During the Dark Age of Technology, the austere ancestors of the Imperium’s Navis Nobilite are born, and through their unique prowess, mankind forges through the stars. Weapons of great destruction cow the aggression of alien enemies, pushing back the frontiers of Mankind’s dominions.*

[crisp heath]

but the cool badasses are almost all men besides the three inquisitors

[brittle slate]

The end of the Dark Age of Technology is the most obscure region in mankind’s evolutionary tale. For whatever reasons and differences in ideology, the Stone Men and the Iron Men fell to warring with each other. The Iron Men are possessed of no Soul, an anathema to any true Man. The Stone Men in their final acts of self-preservation, annihilate the Iron Men who have turned from ally to foe, and even those of the Iron Race who retain their former loyalties ot theor one-time masters are destroyed in the fiery crucible of battle. Still the Emperor, in his eternal wisdom, awaits the moment to reveal the true path to Mankind’s destiny. Thus the start of the Age of Strife is heralded. The Age of Strife sees the collapse of the ancient Empire built by the Stone Men. Mankind is split asunder, there is no Race of Man, just warring factions contending with each other in the direst perils the galaxy could offer. Seeing humanity’s weakness, alien dominance grows in power oce again, the arms of the Stone Men left to ruin, the protection of the Iron Men destroyed in the last years of the Dark Age of Technology. For five millennia, the human race exists in the twilight of its former greatness, bickering and fighting for the scant resources to hand. With no guiding will, no manifest destiny of lordship, mankind is left in turmoil. Even Earth, the bedrock on which humanity’s Empire was founded is gripped in the throes of generation-long intercine war. The foul aliens who had been held back by the might of the Iron Men and the Stone Men surge forth from their havens and lairs, destroying mankind’s defences, killing or enslaving the Emperor’s wards. Mankind is engulfed by a plague of mutation, physical deviants and men possessed of psychic talents appear throughout the galaxy bringing more havoc with them. With no over-reaching authority, these lost souls and psykers sprawl unchecked across the human race. It is at this time that the Emperor reveals his true nature and sets about his plans of deliverance from anarchy.

[wind heron]

Are there female space marines?

[crisp heath]

Nope

also no female custodes

[wind heron]

😭

[crisp heath]

meh.

[acoustic copper]

Greyfax, Celestine, pretty much any sister of battle or sister of silence

[brittle slate]

there should be.

[crisp heath]

it used to fuck with me but i ignore it now.

[brittle slate]

Bowden forever.

[rustic spruce]

Ephrael stern is badass

[crisp heath]

See

[brittle slate]

but no

[crisp heath]

my problem is

sure, they are cool.

and badass

[acoustic copper]

Shadowsun, Yvraine, Severina Raine

[crisp heath]

but sisters of silence and sisters of battle regularly get one shot

by the posterboys

hell

[wind heron]

so worfed?

[crisp heath]

the strongest of the sisters of silence got one shot without even being noticed by kharn.

[rustic spruce]

Celestine vs kharne sure was one of the fights of all time

[crisp heath]

like, sure

[acoustic copper]

thing is, when you're writing your guys (or gals), you can have them being the ones one-shotting the posterboys

[crisp heath]

they are badass

But that just kinda makes the problem of

[storm jungle]

Sisters of Sİlence literally were forgotten forever IRL then they literally had to integrated that to the actual 40k lore lmao

[crisp heath]

if i show this to anyone

i got thrown into a brick wall

last time i got doxxed

For having a marine die to a plasma pistol

WHICH CAN HAPPEN AND HAS MULTIPLE TIMES

[rustic spruce]

Doesn’t cipher kill marines with a plasma pistol

[wind heron]

Yikes

[crisp heath]

Cipher is a marine, tbf

but yeah

[wind heron]

Is life good if you are a marine?

[crisp heath]

there is no life

you cant feel emotion

you are brainwashed children

[wind heron]

oh yikes

[crisp heath]

literally children, by the way

[rustic spruce]

You can spit poison tho

[crisp heath]

your hormones are blocked at 12

[rustic spruce]

So that’s cool

[acoustic copper]

Sisters of silence didn't exist for the majority of 40k, then showed up in the Horus Heresy card game, then got forgotten about for a while, then got brought back for the novels, then GW went "hey, maybe people want to play with these people" and made minis, then went "hey, we can sell more if people can play them in 40k" and had to go "uhh....they've been hiding and/or on the blackships since the Heresy...yeah that'll do"

[crisp heath]

also like

70% of the warhammer community

believes sisters of silence to be only good against psyker

and fodder against anything else like marine and such.

[wind heron]

how bout if youre a guardsman?

[crisp heath]

Also bad

life is bad everywhere in 40k

unless your like- a high lord of terra

[acoustic copper]

if you're a guardsman literally anything will kill you

your expected lifespan on the front line is 15 hours

[wind heron]

so equiv of a clan rat?

[acoustic copper]

hours

[crisp heath]

but yes

i wanna write cool woman

just find it hard in 40k ;-;

because cool, sisters are cool

[wind heron]

wont the guardsmen like mutiny?

[crisp heath]

Nope

[acoustic copper]

that's what commissars are for

[crisp heath]

they are fighting shit that will just kill them anyway

if they try

so, why bother

also hyper-indoctrination

see: krieg

[acoustic copper]

because if they don't fight, then whatever they're fighting will break through and kill their families

[wind heron]

well you can shoot the commissars too i suppose

[acoustic copper]

yeah but that's a quick way to get your regiment gassed/firebombed or sent to the penal legion

[crisp heath]

i might write a guardswoman or mechanicus gal

but its again, a weird problem where the mechanicus gal is still worse than marines anyway, so it solves nothing. a standard marine can kill like twenty skitarii without much difficulty

[acoustic copper]

depends on what you find cool. if your definition of "cool" is "Space Marine", then yeah you're gonna have problems, but pretty much every other branch of the Imperium has women in it

[crisp heath]

i mean yeah

the problem is on a battlefield setting

[rustic spruce]

Our lad ciahpas cain managed to swordfight a CSM

[crisp heath]

because im not writing a warhammer character for politics lol

[wind heron]

Does Imperium ever have civil wars amongst each other?

[crisp heath]

no

[acoustic copper]

allll the time

[crisp heath]

Imperium is a single-whole, nation

the civil wars youd think

[wind heron]

or like having factions wanna balkanize?

[crisp heath]

are usually rebellions moreso

or Doge Vandire

[acoustic copper]

planet gets uppity and stops paying the tithe? war

[wind heron]

I see

do planets ever secede?

[brittle slate]

There was the Interregnum

[acoustic copper]

governor decides he'd do better with the Tau? War

[brittle slate]

all the time

[acoustic copper]

yes, but they tend to be brutally and quickly put down. not always though

[wind heron]

Oh what happens if you successfully secede?

[brittle slate]

There's more civil wars coming up to the Rift then there were outward threats

[brittle slate]

I guess "you did it"!

[wind heron]

like i gurss gotta beat down any guardsmen that try to reconquer you?

[brittle slate]

There are no female equivalents to Space Marines

[acoustic copper]

better hope it's just guardsmen

[crisp heath]

Yeah. kinda sucks tbh

[brittle slate]

Just remember space is big

whole sections of the imperium have broken off without even being noticed for centuries

[crisp heath]

Ive had people try to flavor it as "oh well marines are aliens basically" but not really