40k-lore-chat

[crisp heath]

Like, thats honestly good.

the big difference between her and say, kharn is

she isnt instant revived on death

like kharn is

shes got to work for it.

[clever steppe]

Isn’t the discount sanguinius guy also around that old

[crisp heath]

which makes her immensely more badass to me.

[winter vessel]

Ah Saint Celestine, whom I also call Saint "Kill 'em with Kindness"

[crisp heath]

Sanguinor?

hes died more than her.

[crisp heath]

she aint kind

she has a tract record of burning heretics by being by them

As seen in her art

[winter vessel]

I call that the Sororitas expression of love for the God-Emperor.

[crisp heath]

your not wrong

but also

another reason celestine and such have died alot

is GW used to use the sisters of battle to show how strong a big bad is.

or to show how bad the imperium factions are

stares in anger at matt ward

Grey Knights killed sisters then bathed in their blood to be safe from chaos stuff.

this was unironically written.

bit bad, just bad.

[winter vessel]

I feel like while the Astartes embody the dominance of Mankind, the Adeptus Sororitas embody the hope of Mankind. I've listened to StringStorm's "Adepta Sororitas" song and gives off that vibe of hope from those girls in my perspective.

[crisp heath]

i disagree

iirc, sororitas are worse than space marines in some ways

Archo-Flagellance.

Penitent Engines

[clever steppe]

Id say the hope of mankind are the cadians since they still fight for the emperor after getting dehomed

[crisp heath]

The Space marines also dont represent what you say

if anything, the Sisters do

the Space Marines represent a male power fantasy- nothing more.

Thats literally the satire gw created them as.

[winter vessel]

That is an interesting perspective and also why I like the Astra Militarum and why I consider them my favorite faction out of all the Imperium.

I'm the kind of person who appreciates the accomplishments of the "common man"

[clever steppe]

I like the sisters from a design perspective but no factions that get cheat codes feel like they’re the best

[crisp heath]

Id also argue sisters are cooler than marines in a lot of ways

to me, all depends on your taste

i wanna duel shit with a power sword and be a woman, so the obvious answer is sisters for me.

Mechanicus is also quite rad.

[winter vessel]

You have the Gene-engineered Space Marines but the Guardsmen are just average people who are being sent to hell and back, if any at all they come back.

[crisp heath]

guardsmen are also gene-engineered, you know.

just to a far lesser degree

usually just standard gene-treatments.

[clever steppe]

Yea if i want a faction that looks cool and truly earns their victories imma pick chem dogs or Valhallans

[crisp heath]

sure but

coming from WHF

i wanna play the cool sword users

but again, all taste.

[winter vessel]

I'm more of a Armageddon Steel Legion guy. that or the Elysian Troopers.

But I still hold the Cadian Regiments in high regard.

[clever steppe]

I don’t like green as the factions main color makes me feel like im just playing company of heros

I also grew up in a town that used green for everything so im probably just tired of the color

[winter vessel]

guess I'm your opposite when it comes to that last sentence, lol

[clever steppe]

Blue and grey are good colors especially paired with yellow and red

[winter vessel]

In terms of the Guard, The Death Korp of Krieg is just a tragic story, if the name alone doesn't explain why.

A penance that even in death, will never be fulfilled

[clever steppe]

I think tragedy is just a foundation in most factions

Except standouts like tau and salamanders

[winter vessel]

Oh wait i'm sorry not the Elysian troopers i got the names mixed up. I meant the Harakoni Warhawks, i like their design.

[clever steppe]

Starship troopers but green

[winter vessel]

huh, I thought the warhawks had a desert sand camo pattern.

[clever steppe]

No i was talking about the elysians

[winter vessel]

mmm

ok, for a second there I thought I was color blind

[winter vessel]

Yeah there it is, they got a cool appearance. I might be wrong, but in lore their style of combat are in small unit squads kinda like the Tempestus Scions.

[clever steppe]

I like parkas

[winter vessel]

ah the Valhallan Ice warriors very nice as well

I made the mistake of confusing them with the Vostroyan Firstborn once.

[crisp heath]

Chad

Harakoni warhawks are what the Elysian wish they were, carapace armored elite shock troopers

[winter vessel]

Have you heard StringStorm's sabaton Parody cover of them, "Screaming Eagles"? Fucking metal it was when I listened to it.

[snow blade]

Darktide inspired me to begin the rabbit hole that is 40k
Starting now

[viral musk]

Starting with the heresy ? Ohboi

[winter vessel]

how many volumes are there in total so far? 51?

[snow blade]

54 I believe

[snow blade]

It's what I hear is the best way to jump in the universe

[dusk patrol]

Tbh

Arco-Flagellants are really the worst of the worst

Its really hard to stress how fucking evil you have to be to be made into one.

Now, you can argue over whether or not that justifies it still.

But its not just something you have happen to you for like, stepping on a cardinals shoes.

One example we're given in a dude who led religious pogroms which killed billions.

[mossy mortar]

yeah they were talking in one book about how some skitarii look like techno savages with like leopard skins and stuff

[stuck kindle]

We lore geeks shall shelter here for the impending flood of new users tomorrow.

In the grim dark future of 40,000, there is only lore.

[mossy mortar]

i personally do not recommend yous tart with horus heresy books

[winter vessel]

bet there'll be one new person asking "who's 40k?"

[mossy mortar]

that is my personal and not necessarily popular opinion

[stuck kindle]

Whose Warhammer is this whole thing about?

[winter vessel]

"wAiT cHoas? i ThoUgGht wE wWere Fiting dArKtiide???"

[weak fossil]

IDK, seems like Simeon 38X just needed a hug and some antipsychotics.

[dusk patrol]

He was having a bad month ok?

[rustic spruce]

how rare is it for a ships to have teleportation capabilities

[dusk patrol]

Quite rare

For one, mostly only people with power armor can teleport.

[stuck kindle]

As in teleporting the ship? Necron ships only really.

[dusk patrol]

So that really really lowers the list of ships which would use one.

[mossy mortar]

I think most warships have teleport

per battlefleet gothic

since teleporting bombs or boarders is a pretty common action in the game

[snow blade]

Why do you say that?

Everything I've read and the couple of friends I've spoken too all recommend that being the start for me.

[near grail]

Depends on taste. If you want to deep dive everything, sure

[weak fossil]

What was the name of that story of the imperial ship that got lost in the warp for a few thousand years, came out the other side, the pilot got called a heretic by the new imperium and executed, then the ship's AI threw a hissy fit, shot black holes into the local fleet, and shot off out of the galaxy?

[mossy mortar]

Horus Heresy is a prequel series made for people who already know about the 40k lore

[dusk patrol]

Maybe for bombs but most normal people can't teleport

[mossy mortar]

It's not a very good introduction to the universe

and the quality of books in the series is very uneven

[lilac wave]

I'd still say Eisenhorn is a really great place to start for 40k lore, and are just really well written books.

[mossy mortar]

also ti's an enormous series

liek isntanely long

and not even finished yet

[dusk patrol]

They board with torpedo's or the shark assault boats

[mossy mortar]

after like 10 years

[mossy mortar]

no lightning strike is teleportation

[near grail]

Yeah, but requires the rare circumstance of no shielding being up

[mossy mortar]

space marine ships get more of them but pretty much all ships can do it

Well you take the shields down with your weapons first

[near grail]

But boarding torpedoes and such don't necessarily require that hurdle

[mossy mortar]

yeah and you get mulitple tries

[near grail]

Exactly

[mossy mortar]

lightning strike you only get one plus shield have to be down

But i'm sayign it's a common enough capacity that in the game it's assumed every major warship has it

So likely this means teleportation technology isn't as rare as it's portraye din table top

Where teleport homers are only on like terminators i think

[dusk patrol]

Lightning strike is I'm pretty sure just game mechanics

Like, I can think of no reference ever outside of those games to normal dudes being teleported

Plus, we could argue

Those ships might just have Astartes on board

To assist

Sorry actually

Normal dudes yes

Without power armor? No

[mossy mortar]

It's not something that's settled in lore

It's open to whatever teh story needs

[dusk patrol]

I would say the complete lack of examples of it make it pretty established

[lilac wave]

As far as I know the only imperials that make any use at all of teleporters are Space Marines, specifically Terminators.
In the Rogue Trader RPG you could get a teleportarium for your ship but it's like...super rare archeotech, which is probably how teleportation is seen for most non-space marines.

[dusk patrol]

And the danger of teleportation

[mossy mortar]

oh it's portrayed as dangerous in the game too

[dusk patrol]

Navy Breachers are always shown boarding via torpedoes or assault boats or similar means.

[mossy mortar]

and unreliable

[near grail]

Well yeah, without detailed layouts or a homing device, teleportation is suicide

[dusk patrol]

I've played the game I know

But my point is there's no indication that they're teleporting normal dudes even I don't think.

[weak fossil]

"Death of Integrity", and it was a golden age ship that time travelled. My mistake.

[near grail]

Maybe once during the golden age

[lilac wave]

Usually video games mechanics don't translate super well into lore. I'd say every ship having a teleporter is about as accurate as four random scrubs being able to kill 2000 poxwalkers in a half hour.

[near grail]

Lol fair

[weak fossil]

40k lexicanum says that rogue trader page 125 talks about the limitations of imperial teleportation tech

[mossy mortar]

i mean a warship in 40k is like an entire city

Literally a major metropolitan area in space

[dusk patrol]

Not to mention like I said, it could just be them teleporting Astartes they have on board.

[mossy mortar]

I don't thin kmost navy ships have any astartes on board

[dusk patrol]

BFGA is a pretty abnormal scenario

1 and 2

[mossy mortar]

what's teh A

[dusk patrol]

Battlefleet Gothic Armada

Sorry, Battlefleet Gothic: Armada

[arctic talon]

Lightning strike doesn’t seem lore accurate

[weak fossil]

Also didn't the loyalists teleport aboard the Vengeful Spirit?

[mossy mortar]

i'm talking about the board game

yes

[near grail]

I mean, the big cruisers absolutely do. Smaller cutters usually don't unless they are in a chapter's use

[arctic talon]

Marines yes

[mossy mortar]

i don't think there's anythign on lore that says the navy routinely has space marines attached

[arctic talon]

There isn’t

[dusk patrol]

There's nothing which says normal dudes can teleport either

[arctic talon]

Unless we take the BFGA1 campaign as canon

Which it isn’t

[dusk patrol]

So either lightning strike is just game mechanics

[arctic talon]

Lighting strike is a game mechanic

[dusk patrol]

Or they have Astartes on board for whatever reason a lot

[arctic talon]

Imo

[dusk patrol]

The first is much more likely

[arctic talon]

It’s never used in any books

[mossy mortar]

The Battlefleet Gothic game is canon

[dusk patrol]

The most "normal" people I can think teleporting is Sisters of Silence

[mossy mortar]

the miniatures game

[dusk patrol]

Tabletop rules =/= canon

[arctic talon]

The gameplay isn’t a 1 to 1 translation

[mossy mortar]

so what is then

literally nothing

[dusk patrol]

Uh no

[arctic talon]

The lore in books

[dusk patrol]

Lore is

[arctic talon]

Is literally canon

[dusk patrol]

Fluff

[mossy mortar]

so the fluff in the rulebooks

[dusk patrol]

Tabletop has never mattered

[mossy mortar]

but not the actual rules

[dusk patrol]

Yes

[arctic talon]

Yes

[dusk patrol]

Its very easy

[arctic talon]

Or else I could kill a marine with a lasgun in 1 shot

[mossy mortar]

Except the fluff in the rulebooks is extremely short

[arctic talon]

Or fucks sake I could kill him with a wooden board

[dusk patrol]

OK?

[arctic talon]

With 1 hit

[mossy mortar]

techincally removing a model in game is a casualty not a kill

[arctic talon]

Same difference you can hit them with a wooden board and cause a casualty

[dusk patrol]

Yeah when I shot that gretchin with a multi melta

[arctic talon]

Or punch him with a guardsmen

[dusk patrol]

That was a casualty

He'll recover

[mossy mortar]

what happens is you've rendered teh model tactically combat ineffective for the purposes of that game, but then tehre's separate rules for translating that to strategic games when people run campaigns

[arctic talon]

Yes

[weak fossil]

Are we allowed to post links here?

[dusk patrol]

When my Guilliman model bisected the Abbadon model

[arctic talon]

In crusade there’s rules involving “battle scars”

[mossy mortar]

ANd you're using the absence of something in the extremely sparse fluff to mean that somethign doesn't happen, despite explicit rules that have that capability

[arctic talon]

But tabletop rules are literally useless for lore

[mossy mortar]

that's not very strong reasoning

[arctic talon]

Because a guardsmen can survive a bolter shot

On the tabletop

[lilac wave]

Yeah, table top sacrifices a lot in order to be a playable game that makes sense.
Like, how many guardsman conscripts should it take to kill a squad of space marines?

[mossy mortar]

Yes?

[arctic talon]

At least 1 and potentially an infinite ammount

[dusk patrol]

Do you think normal guardsmen commonly survive bolter rounds?

[arctic talon]

Rogue trader is literally not canon

[mossy mortar]

Yes, because a hit in game isn't actually a hit

[weak fossil]

Oh ok

[arctic talon]

3rd edition is when the actual modern lore

[mossy mortar]

if you get hit by fragments or shrapnel you can live

[arctic talon]

For the game was established

[mossy mortar]

or if it deflects off your armor

[lilac wave]

In terms of lore it's probably hundreds. But on the tabletop you could get it done with like...I dunno, 30?

[dusk patrol]

I think I can already tell where this is going

[mossy mortar]

peopel survive coming under autocannon fire too

[dusk patrol]

Look dude, table top doesn't matter

It has no bearing

[arctic talon]

You can do it with 10 or 20

Especially rn with hammer of the emperor

Every 6 is an auto wound

[mossy mortar]

30 guys being equivalent to 1 marine actually doesn't seem that far off from lore

[lilac wave]

Oh yeah, I forget about hammer of the emperor.

[atomic pelican]

30 conscripts will kill GUOs with an officer with them rn

So glad conscript s are dead

fuck those guys

[arctic talon]

Conscripts also run faster then a marine in the tabletop

[mossy mortar]

I mean it's one guy fighting a literal platoon of guys fully armed with anti-armor weapons, grenades, etc

[arctic talon]

If they have a guy yell at them

[arctic talon]

Conscripts in the tabletop only have lasguns

No grenades

[atomic pelican]

Just lasguns yeah

[arctic talon]

But they’re cheap as hell and annoying

[mossy mortar]

Do conscripts even exist in current edition

[atomic pelican]

Lasguns are currently stronger than bolters because autowounding 6s armywide was a very good rule idea

Not anymore they don't, with the guard 9e book

[arctic talon]

They do until the codex is fully released

Thank fucking god conscripts are gone

Literally the most unfun unit to play against

[atomic pelican]

Conscript meta literal cancer

[lilac wave]

Yeah, as far as the lore is concerned you could shoot at like...a naked space marine all day with a lasgun.

[mossy mortar]

i don't think that's true in the lore

[atomic pelican]

Anything that relies on "Oops! You didn't build into dealing with my army!" is cancer. See: Conscript spam, and knights as an army

[lilac wave]

Like in Horus heresy some world eater got shot in the face, point blank and it was...like a mild inconvinience.

[arctic talon]

When the custodes player watched the guard player casually drop 300 conscripts 6 lemen russ’s

[dusk patrol]

No yeah marines can't tank lasguns naked, not that many at least

[lilac wave]

No helmet either.

[arctic talon]

He had his helmet on

Or rather armor

[dusk patrol]

Although maybe like, an Iron Hands marine could.

[mossy mortar]

well that makes a difference

[lilac wave]

Oh really? I thought he took it off.

[arctic talon]

No

He has it on

[dusk patrol]

They might be able to take it to the chest

[mossy mortar]

i mean if it was a small caliber pistol then i coudl see it deflecting off his skull

[arctic talon]

9mm prolly can’t do too much to a marine

[dusk patrol]

They'd definitely survive some horrific damage.

[arctic talon]

It’ll hurt like hell

[mossy mortar]

even now if you're shooting at something like a large hog with a small pistol you won't reliably penetrate

[arctic talon]

But it prolly won’t kill them

[dusk patrol]

Their bones are absurdly strong

[arctic talon]

But yeah I’m glad conscripts are gone

[atomic pelican]

I've seen a conscript blob do 15 wounds on a GUO, on overwatch

[arctic talon]

Because fuck a player just bringing 300 fucking minis

[mossy mortar]

Though I assume marines never wear their helmets because smartasses keep shooting them in the helmet

[near grail]

Ok. Rules debates go elsewhere folks. As for power and abilities in lore, the "canon" has never been consistent, particularly on powers, so simply accept that at any given point, in any particular book, the lore has likely supported the claim.

[atomic pelican]

Silence green leaf, I tread where I please

[mossy mortar]

and they keep having to take them off after they get damaged

[arctic talon]

Conscript moment

[mossy mortar]

honestly i don't like current rules

3rd/4th edition was peak 40k

[arctic talon]

Thank god conscripts have a 40% chance to fail commands

Or else they’d be aids as hell

[atomic pelican]

Unless whiteshields

[arctic talon]

First rank fire second rank fire + conscripts

[atomic pelican]

Then they're REALLY cancer

[arctic talon]

Casual 80 shots

[atomic pelican]

The guard player at my store ran the stupid key thing that lets you deepstrike any unit

[mossy mortar]

time to get out the dice frames

[atomic pelican]

And would deepstrike 30 conscripts against like, low model daemons and such

[arctic talon]

Ngl i like the current rules fine

[atomic pelican]

With an officer

[arctic talon]

Like the actual core rules

The books are a bit bloated

[arctic talon]

Also to all the guard players crying about conscripts I’ve literally never seen a single guard player

Bring conscripts

[hushed kayak]

the HH rules feels so much better compared to 9th edition rn

[arctic talon]

Till the white shield + conscript meta started

[mossy mortar]

just shake like 5 of those sucker sup

[arctic talon]

like ohnoooo the unit no one fucking used is gone

[atomic pelican]

1 goober ran 300 to a tourn and guard players worldwide did the soy face

[arctic talon]

What a shame

[arctic talon]

300 and a baneblade

Also he’d done that several times

[mossy mortar]

it's a pay gate

[atomic pelican]

Even though he got assstomped, and only climbed because people can't deal with that much inf

[mossy mortar]

since you ahve to buy and paint a billion conscript minis

[arctic talon]

Ye

But I never saw conscripts

At all

[mossy mortar]

pay 2 win

irl

[arctic talon]

I can get complaining about veterans because I saw them a good bit

But conscripts

I think I saw them maybe twice ever

[atomic pelican]

I've only seen 1 unit of 30, no more than that. I don't think anyone actually wants to run that many models in a casual environment because It'd be literal mind numbing

[arctic talon]

In a narrative campaign

[atomic pelican]

Guard shooting phases already can take half ur day

[arctic talon]

Also if you slow roll as guard

[mossy mortar]

play epic 40k problem solved

[arctic talon]

You deserve to have a nid player running pure gaunts slow roll against you

[atomic pelican]

Oh my god

what kind of insane person slow rolls guard?

Twisted sociopath

[arctic talon]

I’ve seen someone do it

[mossy mortar]

why

[atomic pelican]

I would dive bomb them

[arctic talon]

Idk

[mossy mortar]

at that point id just leave

[arctic talon]

I asked him to do it faster

And he did

[mossy mortar]

dude is probably doign some nubmers shit in his head

[atomic pelican]

I've honestly never seen someone slow roll anything unless it was neccesary(damage rolls vs multiwounds, different profiles in target unit/etc)

[arctic talon]

But his shooting phase took almost twice as long as mine lol

[mossy mortar]

he's mentally simulating the entire game

[arctic talon]

Irl cogitator

[atomic pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

[mossy mortar]

you mean savant

[arctic talon]

Lol

[atomic pelican]

He's 30 steps ahead

[mossy mortar]

aka mentat without a trademarked name

wait is mentat trademarked

or whatever

[arctic talon]

Also is this image pinned

Because they should pin it in every fucking channel

[atomic pelican]

Aha! I shall now fire 120 shots, rerolling hits and wounds!

The next day passes and its still not over

[arctic talon]

If I see one more person saying a human can’t use a bolter

I’m gona lose it

[atomic pelican]

LMAO

[mossy mortar]

they were always on the wargear list

[hushed kayak]

wtf this should be a well known fact lol

there’s human pattern bolters

[mossy mortar]

bolt pistol is basically a status symbol

[hushed kayak]

well yeah

[arctic talon]

Something somthing bolter shatter bone something

[mossy mortar]

anyone whos not a jabroni has one

[dusk patrol]

That's how recoil works kids

Heavy guns make you shatter your bones

Speaking of recoil.....

[mossy mortar]

i bet all the yojgn guard leiutenants save their paychecks to buy bolt pistols

[dusk patrol]

Lasgun recoil

[atomic pelican]

Literally everyone gets a bolt pistol option unless the faction has something better, I'm pretty sure even chaos cultist squad leads can carry them

[dusk patrol]

my grandma has a bolt pistol

[mossy mortar]

despite how bulky it is ibet the bolter is actually not insanely heavy since i assume imperial materials are actually pretty light, just bulky

just like the chainsword is a massive brick but youc an still swing it in one hand

I assume plasteel is not very dense

[dusk patrol]

I mean

Its 40k

[mossy mortar]

given the name it's probably an exotic polymer with some sort of super crosslinked structure

[dusk patrol]

Everyone is jacked as fuck

Even if they look like twigs

[weak fossil]

Graphene sheets padded with aerogel for insulation and bulky swag

[lilac wave]

I can't really think of a source for the weight of a boltgun outside of the RPG books. Dark Heresy says a bolt gun weighs 7 kilos.

[dusk patrol]

I doubt thats canon

But who knows

[mossy mortar]

7 kg isn't unreasonably heavy

loaded or unloaded?

[lilac wave]

I mean, the secret to 40k lore is that there really isn't a canon. But yeah, it's pretty heavy.

[mossy mortar]

I mean it is heavy but theres plenty of infantry weapons that actually weight that much

[weak fossil]

40k lore is littered with canons firing all over the place!

[dusk patrol]

Like the heavy bolter is only 68 kilograms

[mossy mortar]

that's pretty heavy

[dusk patrol]

Its not that heavy though

For how fucking big those things are

[lilac wave]

I mean, heavy weapons teams carry them around.

[mossy mortar]

i guess

[lilac wave]

It's heavy enough that you'd have to be jacked to actually shoot it standing up.

[mossy mortar]

standing up

[dusk patrol]

Yeah but no one does that

[mossy mortar]

dude that's a 150 lb

[dusk patrol]

Even Astartes have issues with it

With armor

[lilac wave]

Try Again Bragg does it with an autocannon, which is bigger.

[dusk patrol]

That's my thing

[mossy mortar]

well they have "suspensors" which are antigravity magic

so

40k has always had thsi weird mix of super high and super low teck

[dusk patrol]

autocannons aren't bigger, but Harker is an insane specimen

And he carries it

[mossy mortar]

like you have rings that shoot lasers, but then they also just use slaves to reload the giant cannons on ships

[lilac wave]

I believe they're bigger in most depictions.

Just because an autocannon has a long, heavy barrel.

[mossy mortar]

i assume an autocannon is like 20-30mm range

vs. a heavy stubber which is like somewhere in the .50 cal or smaller range

[dusk patrol]

autocannons aren't consistent for one is one issue

Same with stubbers

Its a general term for a lot of different guns

Heavy Bolter is much more consistent

And I think Bragg uses one of them at some point anyways

[mossy mortar]

i mean autocannon isn't very consistent irl either

[dusk patrol]

Or he almost certainly could, my point is Bragg and Harker are massive outliers.

[mossy mortar]

there's a big range of capabilites

[dusk patrol]

They're freaks of nature.

[mossy mortar]

Or the Tanith use very small autocannon

[dusk patrol]

Not really easy to say with how little we get from the books.

[mossy mortar]

they are light infantry

[dusk patrol]

Its a big gun but we can't really say what it looks like.

[mossy mortar]

intentionally so

[dusk patrol]

He also uses a auto nade launcher which is impossible to judge.

And a rocket launcher.

[weak fossil]

Have there been any indicators of where the Moebian Domain lives on the galaxy map?

[dusk patrol]

Not that I'm aware

[lilac wave]

Even in lore an autocannon isn't just one thing. There's probably hundreds of patterns.

[dusk patrol]

That's my point

[mossy mortar]

yeah they're all roughly similar on tabletop

[dusk patrol]

Heavy bolter is more consistent

[mossy mortar]

at the tabletop scale, which isn't very close

[dusk patrol]

Although it has variety too

[mossy mortar]

yeah it's not always clear if heavy means the actual bolts are bigger or it just shoots more of them

[dusk patrol]

Anyways, my point is that as its depicted, 168 lbs seems pretty damn light for a heavy bolter when we have marines struggling to lug them around.

[mossy mortar]

they usually say bigger

[dusk patrol]

Marines who can casually flip cars and light armored vehicles.

[mossy mortar]

Also they have all sorts of weird antigravity/anti-intertia tech

they specifically talk about suspensors making them more weildy

[dusk patrol]

Some of the RPGs have suspensors to make them work better

But its not standard

[lilac wave]

I don't really recall any instances of marines struggling to carry around a heavy bolter.

[dusk patrol]

They carry them fine, but its not like, light for them.

it does slow them down.

[mossy mortar]

with ammunition

[dusk patrol]

Its mentioned in several books.

There's a reference in one book in particular where a marine, who is noted as being very very strong even for a marine, is strong enough to carry it without it slowing him down, which the squad leader singles out because anyone but him wouldn't be able to do that

And he wouldn't have okayed anyone else choosing the heavy bolter for the mission which required speed.

[junior delta]

An even bigger bolt round is just a grenade launcher round

Matter of fact why bother with grenade launchers when bolters exist

[dusk patrol]

Nades are cool I guess

They have both, if I had to guess nades are cheaper to make.

Maybe easier to maintain.

Bolters being tough to maintain is sometimes brought up.

[lilac wave]

I mean, how heavy should it be? I think you could make a case that the Astartes pattern is bigger than baseline human one.
Heavy bolters are carried and deployed by guardsmen in the field, they can only be so heavy. Honestly 160 pounds is probably on the high end of what you could expect one normal guy to carry around.

[dusk patrol]

OR tougher than more standard choices.

[dusk patrol]

So like

This is 40k

Stuff is just absurdly big

[weak fossil]

Bolt rounds are like APDS tank rounds, made to penetrate armour and then detonate a small explosive charge. Grenades are all about the boom, and don't bother with all the armour piercing business.

[junior delta]

Fair enough

[dusk patrol]

So idk, but probably heavier than what we would consider a reasonable squad team weapon

[mossy mortar]

Grenade launcher is probably way cheaper

[dusk patrol]

This is also a "squad weapon" which to be fair its a model so the scale is off a bit.

[crisp heath]

Even the tabletop@establishes the rules for heavy weapons and heavy bolters are in that category

[dusk patrol]

But still

[crisp heath]

They’re clearly unwieldy for astartes

[mossy mortar]

One of the clever balance things they did for the 40k rpg is that everyone wants a bolter, so bolters arent insanely expensive but the ammo is

[normal stream]

Grenade launchers are cheaper and lighter I imagine, easier to maintain and operate, plus, you can actually indirect fire it.

[dusk patrol]

Every depiction I can think has a marine not easily lugging them around

[crisp heath]

They’re more like APHE

[atomic pelican]

Yeah H.Bolters and such def still need to be braced or some such, for marines.

[normal stream]

Also you can choose frag/krak/illum without needing to resort to specialist ammo that the DW use

[dusk patrol]

And once again, marines casually flips fucking light armored vehicles when needed.

[mossy mortar]

I wonder if you can do airburst on bolters

[dusk patrol]

Rip the doors off tanks.

[dusk patrol]

metal storm rounds

[normal stream]

IIRC metalstorm does this direct fire

[weak fossil]

You're right, my mistake, thanks.

[crisp heath]

The way crew served weapons work is you distribute the weight amongst multiple people, or you make it able to be pulled by multiple people like on wheels

[dusk patrol]

Its what it sounds like

[normal stream]

Much less effective against entrenched opponents though, eg trench warfare

[mossy mortar]

Also based on how there's some popular bitz with belt feed, i bwt all astartes bolters can feed from.belts or magazines

[normal stream]

Like there's a reason howitzers were still used for many years

[crisp heath]

Explosive strength is different to constant lifting strength

[dusk patrol]

Yes which is why I brought up flipping fucking light tanks

[crisp heath]

Like modern power lifters can bench crazy shit for a very short period of time, they can’t do that for very long at all

[dusk patrol]

Or light armored vehicles

[crisp heath]

Also, flipping something isn’t super hard depending on a few circumstances

[lilac wave]

I mean, the easy answer is that the lore isn't consistent, and that astartes pattern bolt weapons are universally depicted as being much larger than those wielded by mortals, and also probably when people are writing about marine struggling to carry around a heavy bolter they aren't thinking about how actually fucking strong a marine is.

[dusk patrol]

Ok I'm not getting lost in the weeds on this one

The point is, heavy bolters are heavy

[dusk patrol]

They aren't really though

[shrewd condor]

Is there anymore story than what we see when we reach rank 30?

[dusk patrol]

Their bolters are similar size almost always

[crisp heath]

So that can be inconclusive information, the general consensus is space marines can heave a few thousand pounds, which doesn’t mean a bolter isn’t heavy to them

[dusk patrol]

heavy bolters that is

[crisp heath]

They can be super heavy if you’re carrying it around for god knows how long on a battlefield

[shrewd condor]

Was beta purposely low on story or something?

[weak fossil]

In this channel? Yes, there is a lot more story.

[dusk patrol]

My point was that 168 lbs is way too light for that to be a struggle for them

Please read the convo

[crisp heath]

Agreed, it’s probably like tripple or@quadruple that

Stay mad

[dusk patrol]

There, that's it

Dear lord

People jumping into long conversations and repeating old points

Tale as old as time

[crisp heath]

Btw the heavy bolters being that heavy doesn’t mean normal guardsmen can’t move them around, you can put them on wheels and shit

[lilac wave]

Once again, two guardsmen can carry a heavy bolter and all the ammo it needs into the field. A really jacked guardsman can carry it by himself.

[dusk patrol]

So in conclusion: I don't think the RPG stat books are what I would look to for weight

[normal stream]

Eg Bragg

[dusk patrol]

Yes and marines struggle with the same weapon

[crisp heath]

Catachans aren’t just jacked guardsmen

[dusk patrol]

Harker is just built absurdly different

[crisp heath]

I’m pretty sure they’re casually superhuman

[crimson dragon]

i wonder why we havent made bolter guns

[dusk patrol]

Harker is basically a smart Ogryn

[crimson dragon]

it might be a good idea to make the people explode

[dusk patrol]

In how absurdly strong he is

[crimson dragon]

so they die instantly

[normal stream]

Pretty sure Bragg carried a heavy bolter in one of the first few Tanith novels

[crisp heath]

It’s because they’re shit, in all aspects

[crimson dragon]

A small arm that shoots APHE rounds?

[dusk patrol]

We have made them anyways

[crisp heath]

You either make a cannon, or you just use a rifle

[dusk patrol]

Its a lot of effort

For not much reward

[crimson dragon]

what if we get invaded by aliens

[dusk patrol]

Then we'd die I assume

[crimson dragon]

with good skins

[normal stream]

Yep. We don't need the capability a bolter provides on every rifleman.

[crisp heath]

Aphe rounds are trash unless you’re wearing some kind of power armor to survive the amount of recoil that weapon would need to create in order to be effective against armor

[dusk patrol]

Because any alien who could travel to us should be able to fuck us up.

[crimson dragon]

not unless they're long lived

[crisp heath]

Because for aphe to be effective you need a wide bore, to make the projectile able to carry enough explosives to be worth

[crimson dragon]

or it was a colony ship that travelled for thousand of years

[crisp heath]

And I’m order to make that projectile capable of piercing armor, it needs to be going really fast, adding even more recoil

[weak fossil]

Regarding Darktide, FatShark have a solid history of putting together entertaining campaigns. Should be fun, I reckon.

[crisp heath]

When I’m reality, you could just make a rifle that shoots a really fast bullet with a small bore diameter and it would pierce more armor, than the large diameter bullet at the same energy levels

[dusk patrol]

Tldr; shockingly, 40k weapons aren’t very realistic or practical irl

[crisp heath]

Hell at the same velocity

[dusk patrol]

Who knew?

[crisp heath]

Flashlight

[crisp heath]

Yeah because British dudes made them

[crimson dragon]

only practical ones imo maybe the pulse rifles that the tau uses?

[crisp heath]

Yeah probably

[normal stream]

Recoilless rifles were a thing!

[crisp heath]

Recoiless rifles basically fired bolter rounds true

[crimson dragon]

lasguns might be actually effective, we're still at a stage of experimenting with laser weapons

[normal stream]

And then turns out tandem charge top attack launchers did a better job of anti armor after a couple of generations of weapon development..

[crisp heath]

But, not in a way that a Bolter works

[dusk patrol]

Even Tau stuff is mostly mumbo jumbo sci fi stuff

[normal stream]

Yeah agreed

[dusk patrol]

Like if we could make lasguns they’d be amazing weapons don’t get me wrong

[normal stream]

We gotta make sure that there's recoil

[crisp heath]

They’re only effective if they work the same way as lasguns work in universe, ie: them being logistical super weapons and not actually their power

[dusk patrol]

But we’d probably be able to do a lot more that just lasguns if we could

[crimson dragon]

for a flashlight that shoots a photon with great power that can melt shit instantly

i think there'd be a recoil

[dusk patrol]

Lasguns are absurdly good guns

[crimson dragon]

even lasers have recoil just not noticable

[crisp heath]

We have modern rifles that can compete with lasguns in terms of bodily damage they can cause, but NOtHING can compete with a lasgun in terms of logistics

[dusk patrol]

They’re a logisticians wet dream

[normal stream]

Until you're fighting in the cold

[crimson dragon]

lasguns probably have a massive amount of energy

[normal stream]

Then rip your batteries

[dusk patrol]

Even then

[crisp heath]

You get the ammo from the sun, a fire, and can make the gun from what is essentially super strong plastic

[weak fossil]

Gyrojet made bolter-style rounds. Horribly impractical, inefficient, expensive, and inaccurate, but pretty clever.

[dusk patrol]

You can recharge them with fire

[crimson dragon]

anyways they just get ammo from recharging it

[normal stream]

Okay if you can recharge them from fire.. Well.

[dusk patrol]

All you need is sun normally anyways

[crisp heath]

Kinda sorta

[normal stream]

I need to know how one can convert power so efficiently

[crisp heath]

Some lore depicts them ripping arms off folks, but that kind of power can be achieved with even certain AR15 builds today

[crimson dragon]

lasers still causes a recoil its just not noticable, i think the recoil is based on the energy in wh40k

[normal stream]

Ripping arms off folks? Guess what does that - muskets.

Also cannonballs

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-morty-rick-and-morty-dont-think-about-it-the-answer-is-dont-think-about-it-gif-14133358

[crimson dragon]

a sword can even cut off an arm

[dusk patrol]

But seriously

[crimson dragon]

[normal stream]

Musket warfare wounds were horrendous

[dusk patrol]

Lasguns are fucking magical

[crisp heath]

Muskets aren’t that powerful, they’re about as strong as a modern 308 or 12g slug

[crimson dragon]

a stone that's sharpened can even kill you

[mossy mortar]

Ah but if it's a rocket propelled round then you'd only feel the recoil of the booster charge

[crimson dragon]

we tried making one before

iirc

[weak fossil]

Graphene as a supercapacitor is a pretty wild way to store massive amounts of energy with almost no internal resistance. The only problem is mass-manufacturing graphene.

[crisp heath]

A good 556 defense round can actually cause wounds like that as well due purely to bullet composition and design

[normal stream]

It's not about the force. It's about the fact that it doesnt enter and exit like a rifled round does. It hits and spreads the force of the impact.

[crimson dragon]

those rocket propelled bullets

it was shit

so bolters arent practical

[normal stream]

Rifled rounds enter small, exit large. Musket rounds hit and blow limbs off.

[mossy mortar]

Nah it's space technology

[crisp heath]

You’d have to have a conventional propellant charge if you want it to be like a bolter

[mossy mortar]

Yes that would be the booster

[crimson dragon]

a pulse rifle is better than a bolter

[crisp heath]

A modern rifle round is far more efficient at spreading its force than musket balls are

[crimson dragon]

or something that uses electricity

to throw something

[crisp heath]

Just not the shitty mass production ammunition for the most part.

[crimson dragon]

anyways lasguns dont have spread

so you just point

[mossy mortar]

Pulse rifle is pure scifi handwaving instead of partial scifi handwaving dor the bolter, and thus inferioe

[normal stream]

Modern rifle rounds are designed to penetrate hard plate and transfer enough concentrated concussive force through soft plate.

[dusk patrol]

And then there’s Volkite

[crimson dragon]

problem with it is that world's arent flat

[normal stream]

It's not about blowing limbs off.

[dusk patrol]

Or plasma tbh

[mossy mortar]

Uh no it's because a musket round is like .75 caliber it's just got an enormous wound channel because it's huge

[crimson dragon]

so you can miss

[crisp heath]

What modern rifle rounds are those? Because almost everything in common use today was designed before body armor was a thing.

[crimson dragon]

lol

[dusk patrol]

Dude plasma is magical too

It stores the fucking heated plasma inside it

[crisp heath]

556, 545, 308 it all predates modern body armor

[mossy mortar]

There's like a bunch of different bullet types there's no monolithic modwrn rifle round

[crimson dragon]

plasma is just melted gas

[mossy mortar]

The round itself isn't rifled that's the barrel

[normal stream]

Yep.

[mossy mortar]

Plasma is a state if matter

[crimson dragon]

[mossy mortar]

Of matter

[crimson dragon]

plasma is gas melted

[crisp heath]

A modern home defense round designed to destroy flesh is probably doing far more damage than any musket ball

[dusk patrol]

Not 40k plasma

They literally extract it from suns

[mossy mortar]

Depends on the energy but probably

[dusk patrol]

And bottle it up

[crimson dragon]

so if you melt a solid it becomes liquid, if you melt a liquid it becomes gas, if you melt gas it becomes plasma ez

[mossy mortar]

Because higher energy plus an expanding round

[crimson dragon]

[dusk patrol]

Im aware of how plasma works in the real world

That’s not how 40k plasma does it

[weak fossil]

Which is fine for a sci-fi universe. IRL, lasers always have a minimum beam-waist somewhere off in the distance, after which they'll diverge.

[crisp heath]

Like I’ve seen 458 socom plastic bullets tear 1 foot by 1 foot by 6 feet rectangles of ballistics gel in half

[dusk patrol]

They take it from the fucking sun

[crisp heath]

Which would totally rip your arm or leg off if you got hit by it

[dusk patrol]

Or a sun

[mossy mortar]

The new ultra-high velocity rounds that supposedly can defeat bodry armor are pretty interesting

They generaate like insane chamber pressures though

[crimson dragon]

i mean yea it has a max range, same for guns

[mossy mortar]

I assume they will chew through barrels like nits

[crisp heath]

The sun….is made of plasma

[mossy mortar]

So is a large fire

[crimson dragon]

i never heard of the imperium mentioning anything about dyson spheres

[dusk patrol]

I’m aware

[crimson dragon]

[crisp heath]

Like all a star is a massive constant fusion reaction, and that things composition is plasma

[dusk patrol]

My point is, they take it from the sun, and then store it

In its heated state

[mossy mortar]

The thing about dyson spheres is you wouldn't see them

[dusk patrol]

As ammo

It’s magic

[crisp heath]

So….plasma guns shoot plasma

[mossy mortar]

Or do they

[crisp heath]

Rgr

[dusk patrol]

Also it doesn’t even function like plasma

But whatever

[crisp heath]

How so

[mossy mortar]

Well it's plasma contained in some sort of exotic field

[crimson dragon]

you're hurling plasma at the enemy

[dusk patrol]

Plasma doesn’t work that way, and also it would roast the user

[crisp heath]

Plasma contained in an exotic field would still@act like plasma

[mossy mortar]

So it doesn't you know... Floof away like an ionized fas

[crisp heath]

Compressed plasma probably explodes if it’s compressed and that stress is released

[crimson dragon]

im guessing its kept by a gravity tech nology

[normal stream]

magic field

[dusk patrol]

It’s not like they’re firing a shielded projectile which travels with it

[crisp heath]

Magic field containing plasma, still plasma

[crimson dragon]

since thats how servoskulls fly

and cherubims fly

[normal stream]

It's funny because the early depictions of plasma guns were beams rather than orbs

[dusk patrol]

They’re firing a gob of plasma which somehow travels and hits stufff

[normal stream]

Beams of plasma make a bit more sense

[mossy mortar]

The imperium pretty regularly uses matter disruption fields that alter the bonds between molecules

[dusk patrol]

Not how plasma works

[mossy mortar]

And pits that on a giant fist

[lilac wave]

Yeah, something magical is clearly being done to keep the plasma coherent.

[crisp heath]

Could be projecting a magnetic field in some exotic way

[normal stream]

You can theoretically magnetically form a field for that.

[dusk patrol]

I can’t believe Im having to argue that 40k weapons arennt realistic

[dusk patrol]

It’s not

[normal stream]

Similar to how rail guns work in the Expanse.

[dusk patrol]

Which is what I said

[crisp heath]

Also the users to get burns from firing plasma guns when it’s overheating

[mossy mortar]

So they probably have all sorts of wild magic ways to manipulate matter from afar

[dusk patrol]

It’s just firing a gob of plasma

[mossy mortar]

And tear things apart ar range

[dusk patrol]

Which can arc

[crimson dragon]

its throwing a gob of plasma

[normal stream]

hey guys, why do lasguns have recoil

[crisp heath]

Okay, plasma can arc electricity

[mossy mortar]

Or the plasma is used as a carrier for one of these matter fields

[dusk patrol]

[crisp heath]

It’s charged gas, of course it can

[dusk patrol]

Arc

[crimson dragon]

because lasers fired from lasguns emit alot of energy

[dusk patrol]

As in

[normal stream]

wew scionce

[crimson dragon]

and lasers actually do have recoil

its just unnoticable

[crisp heath]

I can actually explain lasgun recoil

[dusk patrol]

Fall down and have travel time and be a projectile

[crimson dragon]

now multiply that by 1 million

[mossy mortar]

Because lasguns use lasers to guide exotic energy fields

[normal stream]

(I actually can't believe we're having a discussion about the realism of 40k weapons)

[mossy mortar]

That generate recoil

[dusk patrol]

I can’t believe people are so contrarian they’re arguing that 40k weapons are actually realistic

[normal stream]

Can someone explain to me how Smite works? 🙃

[mossy mortar]

Since those fields can bw used to generate concussive forces like with the thunder hammer

[crisp heath]

The laser created by the lasgun is powerful enough to cause a small explosion at the muzzle, and create a channel@of ionized air in the process

[crimson dragon]

that too

[crisp heath]

The laser contacting air creates a small explosion

This happens irl

[lilac wave]

We all have hills we're willing to die on.

[mossy mortar]

Most people in 40k have no idea how their weapons work... It seems presumptuous for us to say how they work

[crimson dragon]

just not noticable

[dusk patrol]

Lasguns actually harness the power of your mum learning that you’re arguing on the internet about silly make believe Sci fi guns to create recoil for the lasgun.

[crisp heath]

I’m just smarter than everyone in40k

[mossy mortar]

Unlikely

[dusk patrol]

It’s an infinite source of energy

[crimson dragon]

they have the warp

[crisp heath]

The dues in 40k are kinda dumb if you@think about it

[crimson dragon]

they have psykers

everything is unrealistic

[crisp heath]

I have a phd in your mother

[lilac wave]

It's better than arguing about politics on the internet. At least we're not that sort of degenerate.

[crimson dragon]

anyways

[normal stream]

Eli5 smite pls

[crisp heath]

In any case, a lot of the things within 40k that isn’t warp bs or titan stuff and starship stuff can be explained

[mossy mortar]

What you do is you suspend a 40k nerd above a patch of grass, them have a girl walk nearby. The combined repulsive forces will cause them to spin , whoch can turn a turbine and generate cheap electricity

[crimson dragon]

i wonder if the immaterium is in the warp, because we know warp travel can exist

[crisp heath]

You have to do a small amount of@suspension of disbelief for things@like the plasma gun and melts guns (and all of necron shit)

[crimson dragon]

[crisp heath]

Melta gun iirc fires a beam of fusion energy or something

Which…is still just plasma

[normal stream]

Gauss flayer!

[crimson dragon]

me
having schizo moment believing that we might actually be living in the past of 40k

[crisp heath]

Therefore, melta guns are plasma guns

[mossy mortar]

Meltagun is supposed to be msgic microwaves

[crisp heath]

No that’s volkite weapons

[mossy mortar]

Meltagun is like a LAW equivalent but multiple shots

[crisp heath]

Volkite guns are basicwlly microwaves

[crimson dragon]

people behind wh40k travelled to the past after getting lost in a warpstorm

[crisp heath]

Meltagun is just a shorter ranges, far more consentrated plasma gun

[mossy mortar]

Volkite weapons are death rays

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/cristiano-ronaldo-award-winning-walking-gif-24664103

Me accepting the smartest person alive award for declaring that 40k tech and concepts might actually not be realistic

[mossy mortar]

No

[crisp heath]

So are plasma guns

[lilac wave]

I think there is a way to explain a man personal plasma weapon that could be carried into 40k.

In my head a plasmagun discharge resembles a lightning bolt more than anything.

[crisp heath]

A lightning bolt would be straight ass at dealing damage to armored vehicles

[dusk patrol]

I think the main reason, is its 40k plasma

[crimson dragon]

i wonder what will replace guns in the future

[dusk patrol]

Which works however the author wants it to work

[mossy mortar]

Meltagun has always been described entirely different from plasma gun

[crimson dragon]

replace gunpowder weapons

[crisp heath]

Nothing will replace guns in the future

[mossy mortar]

Yeah why would you

[crisp heath]

Gunpowder will@always have its place

[crimson dragon]

thats what people in the medieval era said

[crisp heath]

They were right, nothing has replaced gunpowder

[crimson dragon]

im talking about swords before gunpowder

but ok

[crisp heath]

It’s all still a gun, black powder, smokeless

[mossy mortar]

Swords still exist

[weak fossil]

From the history of project MARAUDER and its descendant experiments, it would be more like a tiny smoke-ring of plasma blasting out at about 2000 miles per second.

[crisp heath]

No one said that about swords, swords were shit as a fighting instrument even back then

[crimson dragon]

yeah true

[crisp heath]

A spear was superior

[mossy mortar]

No you can't carry a spear in the city

[crisp heath]

And spears still exist

[lilac wave]

Just resembles it in being like...a sudden violent arc of very bright light.

[crimson dragon]

oh yeah we stuck them to our guns

[crisp heath]

Yep, our guns are just short spears that spit lead

[mossy mortar]

Swords hsve always been sidearms

[crisp heath]

Spears are the superior armament of the old world, able to train a random on how to use it easily, you outrange your opponent in melee which is super advantageous, cheap to make

It’s just way better than any sword

[mossy mortar]

But you can't walk around a city carrying a spear

[crisp heath]

Only thing that might beat a spear is like a halberd but that’s just a spear that has an axe head on it

[crimson dragon]

ok let me rephrase that, im talking about guns in the future that will be a better alternative to gunpowder weapons

[mossy mortar]

Sword is a gentleman's weapon

[crimson dragon]

all i can think of is railguns

since the bullets are faster

[crisp heath]

The next step is probably a gunpowder rifle with electromagnetic rails on it to add acceleration to the bullet

[mossy mortar]

On the battlefield i would just carry a spear and also sit on a horse

Which is faster and also my spear is bigger

[crimson dragon]

don't railguns not necessarily use gunpowder

[crisp heath]

Just take an ar15 slap a battery to it and add coil gun rails to it

[mossy mortar]

Nah unnecessary

Just add more powder

That's what the new 6.8mm rifles do

[crimson dragon]

add more powder

lol

[crisp heath]

Eventually that becomes problematic

[mossy mortar]

Then you change to a more efficient propellant

[crisp heath]

Chamber pressures and whatnot, you can’t get away from them with just more efficient powders

A faster bullet will always require more chamber pressures unless you’re adding a super long barrel

[mossy mortar]

The new 6.8 round is running insane chsmber pressures

80,000 psi

[crisp heath]

Yeah, exactly. The rifles will need to be made far sturdier and you can only@do so much with chamber designs, you need to start adding things like more mass

More material mass means heavier, heavier means your troops stop being able to carry it

[mossy mortar]

3000fps muzzle velocity

It's wild

[crisp heath]

Adding a coil system also has the benefit of redundancy

[mossy mortar]

And honestly even that is unnecessary

[crisp heath]

If your battery runs out, or the coils mamlfunction, you still have a rifle

That can fire normally

[mossy mortar]

It's a ridiculous requirement they created

Completely useless in a practical sense

[crisp heath]

It’s useful against body armors in short to medium ranges

[mossy mortar]

Small arms just aren't that important for militaries

Not for near peer conflicts

[crisp heath]

Faster velocities mean better body armor penetration

[mossy mortar]

And ultimately it's not that important

[crisp heath]

Artillery is the king true

Air superiority is queen

[mossy mortar]

Now, reducing combat loads is more relevant

[lilac wave]

Ehh, there's really still no replacement for boots on the ground.

[crisp heath]

Could go for something weird and exotic if batteries become advanced enough

[mossy mortar]

Meh unlikely

[crisp heath]

Like electro lasers

[mossy mortar]

Battery technology is not advancing fast at all

Even on the horizon there's not much there

[crisp heath]

Yea that’s the main reasonnlasers are progressing so slowly

At least, lasers for infantry

Handheld lasers

[mossy mortar]

Yes but the rifle they carry isn't that important

[crisp heath]

Blinding weapons are crazy though

[mossy mortar]

Lasers just aren't a very good weapon

[crisp heath]

I know of a guy who shitposted on 4chan about how he made a UV laser that blinded people without having to hit them directly in the eye

[mossy mortar]

For most things

Sounds illefal and barbaric

At thay point you might as well drop sarin gas on em

[crisp heath]

He could just shoot it into a room and it would reflect so much damaging radiation off walls and shit that it could blind everyone inside who didn’t have specific UB eye protection

It was super illegal btw

Like super super illegal

Lasers as anti eyesight weapons is actually kind of crazy

[mossy mortar]

Yes supposedly thr Chinese have them fully developed

The US stopped due to treaty obligations and also PR problems

[crisp heath]

You can’t ever stop all frequencies of light with just glasses, you HAVE to put barriers between you and the laser otherwise you wouldn’t be able to see

Which creates some pretty cool incentives to use things like AR headsets

[mossy mortar]

I assume that was part of the rationale for the armys hololens project

[crisp heath]

The barrier is the headset itsself, and you see out of it with cameras

[mossy mortar]

Which isn't working great but still

[crisp heath]

HoloLens’s wouldn’t stop a proper laser weapon unfortunately

[mossy mortar]

It's just called hololens

[crisp heath]

It’s still just a Lens and not a camera

[mossy mortar]

It's cameras

[crisp heath]

Oh

That would work then

Might fight up the cameras though if you get hit by a sufficiently powerful laser

But other then that that’s kind of the perfect counter to weaponised lasers

[mossy mortar]

No nevermind that's not hololens that's a separate project

The hololens is i think augmented vision

There's a separate project that's not near prototype

[crisp heath]

Yeah that’s what I thought it was

Adds some cool tech tho like the body outlines

Might be best if you could combine it with anti laser tech

[mossy mortar]

It mostly just makes people vomit though

[crisp heath]

Weird I wonder why that so

Anyways gotta sleep

Ttyl

[mossy mortar]

Later

[crisp heath]

Is inqisitor martyr lore friendly?

Regarding demonhosts

[dusk patrol]

Inquisitors Martyr can mostly just be ignored period

For like canon purposes

[crisp heath]

I don’t want to spoiler anything because in game story is quite nice but , let just say, at some moment they face secret inquisition testing facility main point of which was to produce demon hosts

Idea being that out of some of them there wild be people which managed to defeat demon and to become , quote , imune to Chaos

Is that even possible ?

Or is it black library level if canon?

[crisp heath]

I was just curious about that point because mostly game was fair? I haven’t seen any thing that wasn’t at least true enough

[dusk patrol]

It’s not like, always wrong

It’s just super exaggerated and extreme

[crisp heath]

I mean , mostly if something is strange inside of game it’s either some secret research or else

Most likely same thing gw will use if they would ever make female / trans space marine (FAAAAABBBIIIIUUUUUSSSS)

Only issue is that entire games plot curled around researching those incidents … then again , it’s inquisition

[full bane]

Possession and exorcism is a known way to increase warp resistance (or at least weed out those susceptible to it)

There's an entire Chapter which does it as part of their initiation.

[crisp heath]

Still won’t person which survived possession will lost theyre soul ? Or it would work only if they’re failed?

[full bane]

The Exorcist Chapter of Marines all still have their souls for the most part, but they become resistant and trained to fight off possession as a result. Otherwise there wouldn't be Exorcist Librarians.

[crisp heath]

Fair

[dusk patrol]

So what they do is they intentionally get possessed

Then exorcise the daemon into a clone of themselves

Or something like that

Basically they hide their soul on a clone of themselves

This gives the “illusion” of them not having a soul

And it makes them not able to be noticed by psykers

And it gives them a huge advantage against daemons

It’s not quite being a blank but it’s still a big edge

Space Marines can’t be made from blanks

There’s some space marine blanks we know of called the Ferrymen for the Grey Knights

But they’re made after and we have no idea how it works

And they haven’t been expanded on at all

[dusk patrol]

Exorcists also have two scout companies I believe because of how dangerous the possession and exorcism process is

Most of the aspirants fail

I think it’s as bad as 1/10 actually succeed

And that’s the final test

The failed aspirants they use to house dangerous daemons on one of their main ships

[spring solar]

since they dont reproduce sexually, dont see the point of female space marines unless the geneseeds some how are more stable in females. space marines are basically eunuchs at this point

[crisp heath]

It was because of shit show with sjw

Like , whole chat about such options , I don’t see really any reason of female space marines since we have sororitas

[full bane]

Even if there were, by the time you finished with all the implants and crazy bullshit that goes into making a Marine the end result would look like... a Space Marine.

[crisp heath]

Also. How tf did Ultramarine become black… was that specific individual from Salamanders or something? Isn’t gene sede fully rewrites person ? Like genetically making them closer to primarch

[full bane]

It doesn't do that.

Outside of maybe Alpharius, but that might also just be cosmetic surgery and a desire to make everyone look the same for spec-ops and trolling bullshit.

[celest dome]

Read is as come back

There isn't any given skin type in the legions

There are black Space Wolf iirc

[full bane]

It's less likely among Chapters with a smaller recruiting pool like Salamanders, Space Wolves, and the like. But Ultramarines and Fists have HUGE recruiting pools.

Plus the Salamanders and Blood Angels have a noted geneseed flaw which affects appearance.

[crisp heath]

Haven’t seen that nor heard that , I’ve read that an black haired recruit which joined blood angels gone blond with his entire hair type changing as result of his development

[full bane]

Yeah but it isn't universal nor is it consistent.

[crisp heath]

I see

So it’s random?

[full bane]

Blood Angels err towards looking like Sanguinus, but it's not a complete lookalike. A dark-skinned initiate might lighten a shade or have their hair err towards being blonde.

But they aren't a legion/chapter of identical copies.

[crisp heath]

I see

[noble hinge]

i need somebody to explain this to me "Go check out the book Flesh and Steel for a cool 40k detective story that also has a scene in a servitor production facility. Absolute nightmare."

[full bane]

And it's specifically a thing found in certain geneseeds. Stable geneseed like Imperial Fists and Ultramarines don't really make people look like their Primarchs.

[crisp heath]

You do know what servitors are ?

[noble hinge]

yes

medicae thingies

[full bane]

There's a book called Flesh and Steel, it's a detective story about an Enforcer and a member of the Collegia Extremis.

[crisp heath]

No like generally

[noble hinge]

human brain in robotic body?

[crisp heath]

It’s an human implanted heavily and maimed to fulfill basic role

[full bane]

Lobotomised clones/criminals used as the hardware for utility services.

[noble hinge]

this is true? There are no AI in 40k. Every "robot" you see is a Human brain trapped in a machine body. If a machine moves, it is because a Human mind wills it so.

[crisp heath]

Imagine head which purpose is solely to open doors for room owners

[noble hinge]

OHHHHH criminals

omg that is soo sad

stuck there forever?

fuuuuck

i would rather be shot in the head honestly

[full bane]

A servitor factory in this case would be a conveyor line that turns living people (some of whom are innocent) into machines and utilities.

[crisp heath]

It’s because ai is forbidden after Metal Humans Rebellion

[noble hinge]

the universe just became a bit more dark 😄 like it was not enough but now i hear this shit about the heads?

omg

[full bane]

There's a scene in the Gods of Mars trilogy where a random dockworker gets knocked out and drafted as slave labor on a ship. One of his compatriots gets turned into a servitor to hand out meals.

[crisp heath]

Humans did had this one comming yet, it was one of things that made humanity colapse to state compared to which imperium is blessing

[full bane]

The Servitor isn't properly lobotomized and maintains some semblance of humanity in that novel, and can be seen crying and mumbling the names of his friends as he rolls around being a food delivery/cleanup bot.

[noble hinge]

can you explain what happens more?

[noble hinge]

wooow

holy shiat

[crisp heath]

Yup

[noble hinge]

i dunno why but stuff like this scares me and makes me wonder how would have tought of doing that and why

[crisp heath]

Servo sculls are also humans

Well was such

[noble hinge]

getting stuck for 100 years healing people in hive city or opening dorrs

holy shit

[full bane]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/jqvjvs/excerptflesh_steel_behindthescenes_tour_of_an/

Found an excerpt, don't have the book with me at the moment.

[crisp heath]

Yup

No ai no fake intelligence

[celest dome]

There are AI, they just are very rare atm due to the Men of Iron rebelling

[noble hinge]

yeah i thought it was AI to be honest i thought only in the Dune universe Ai were banned

[crisp heath]

They are forbidden in imperium tho

Those which exist are either chaos titans or

[celest dome]

Yes, that's why they are rare, but they still exist

[full bane]

For a given value of AI, the machine spirits of Titans and Ships are close enough to count by our standards.

[crisp heath]

Sorta strange thing called machine spirit

[spring solar]

that's basically what i was getting at haha. just didnt want to come off all sexist like, "who tf needs a woman that's going to end up lookin like a roided dude anyways"

[crisp heath]

Sorta

[celest dome]

Titans have Machine spirit strong enough to be considered AI

[crisp heath]

It’s more mythical at that point

[crisp heath]

Stuff

[celest dome]

The Speranza is a AI STC

[full bane]

Speranza is an exception.

[celest dome]

Well STCs

That's why they are very rare

[crisp heath]

Let just say, it depends on an author

[celest dome]

Most won't interact with an AI in their whole life

[crisp heath]

Canonically it isn’t , but some authors can make gaps

Just as some authors can do Tau psyker bulshit

[spring solar]

that reminds me, was gonna give Far Sight a try

[full bane]

Eh, the Machine Spirit of a lasgun maybe. But a Titan's is pretty much an animalistic AI that you mind link with. They're just self-contained and not really something that feels the need to learn.

[celest dome]

Ethereal are the closest to Psyker, and they are just Empath or something

[full bane]

Nicassar are the Tau's main source of Psykers.

[spring solar]

i saw big caps for a second saying it sucks

[crisp heath]

Don’t , all Tau novels sucks

[spring solar]

how so

[full bane]

That and your occasional Psychic Kroot I suppose.

[celest dome]

They do change due to the interaction with the Pilot and stuff