40k-lore-chat

[dusk patrol]

Warhammer 40k

[plush mason]

everything is shit

[odd palm]

Cringe

One word, you’re welcome

[plush mason]

lol

[crisp heath]

man kill aliens

[silent badge]

is 40k and end times in the same universe?

[crisp heath]

no

fantasy hammer and 40k are separate although they do have references to each other

[gusty gyro]

is the preacher that says blood to the emperor, skulls for the golden throne heretical? in this essay i will

[crisp heath]

nah they good

[gusty gyro]

its very close to khornate worship

blind faith towards one thing or another tends to slowly blur the lines between it, and it's opposite

[crisp heath]

yes but killing in the name of the emperor is different from knowingly killing in the name of khorne

in the same vein of killin for nurgle/slaanesh/tzeentch

[silent badge]

who will win Sigmar or the God Emperor of Mankind

[crisp heath]

joe mama

[gusty gyro]

cadia

[crisp heath]

rogal dorn

[gusty gyro]

the planet broke before the guard did

[crisp heath]

something something klepto necron something something

[timid latch]

Grim star wars

[arctic talon]

Sigmar

Sigmar is an actual God, the God Emperor isn’t

[plush mason]

that is actually what happens to a lot of imperial death cults

they start out killing in the emperors name but over time they can up falling to khorne's influence

the corruption of chaos can be very subtle

[gusty gyro]

grim dark future

[crisp heath]

Nobody is happy

[lapis furnace]

Khorne and the imperium of man are both evil though right

[crisp heath]

joe mama moments

[lapis furnace]

Bad guys that hate each other

[plush mason]

everyone is evil in 40k

[lapis furnace]

Thats pretty baller

[plush mason]

ye

[silver bramble]

[plush mason]

there are no good guys so everyone is free to be badass villains

[crisp heath]

Everyone is evil except for the faction you like 🙂

[plush mason]

yeah but thats the boring take

[silver bramble]

Bold words for someone in crusade range.

[crisp heath]

I mean. Number one it’s not a take it’s a joke :p

[arctic talon]

Doesn’t change the fact Sigmar is an actual god and big E isn’t

[crisp heath]

Number two I don’t have another thing to say

I’m partial to eldar and even they suck ass

[plush mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRGLr9ZKznI
funny you should mention that as the furry crusade seems to be going poorly (or greatly depending on which side you are on)

[silver bramble]

we don’t talk about that

[plush mason]

lol

[crisp heath]

Fucking love those. May side with eldar, but I’ll throw my lot in with the imperium everyday when it comes to cleansing the furries

[lapis furnace]

Are furries canon

[silver bramble]

Kinda.

[lapis furnace]

Sick

[crisp heath]

my brothers fall in their crusade and shall be forever remembered, as the emperor's finest

[plush mason]

there are beastmen and cat people in 40k yes

[silver bramble]

There’s an abhuman group called felinids.

[crisp heath]

love my beastmen imperial guard regiments

[lapis furnace]

Furries are the future

[silver bramble]

We know literally nothing about them.

[plush mason]

ye

[crisp heath]

I straight up heard about them the first time today playing darktide

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-avengers-infinity-war-im-sorry-little-one-gif-12454554

As a throwaway line from one the squad

[silver bramble]

https://youtu.be/iUuvHPr4BGk

I like this take.

[plush mason]

like literally the only account of what they look like comes from a kroot so we can not take said report at face value as the kroot are so racist they literally can not tell any non kroot apart

[silver bramble]

Which is weird because I dislike tts.

[plush mason]

whats funny is even tho TTS is mostly memes. their stuff about the dark eldar and their city in the webway is honestly really good and accurate

[gusty gyro]

the only non evil person is tzeentch

definitely

[silver bramble]

No. It’s Helbrecht. He is perfect and has never done anything wrong. He is a loving and friendly man.

[rustic spruce]

the only non evil people are gork and mork

[gusty gyro]

i agree

technically, while tzeentch is a chaos god, he's a god of fate, and evolution, and knowledge, so is the "least evil" of the chaos gods

as he embodies the universe moving on it's path

[silver bramble]

And hentai.

[rustic spruce]

but is he cunningly brutal

[gusty gyro]

yes

[gusty gyro]

that's slaneesh and tzeentch deciding to finally work together for the greater good of humankind

[normal stream]

Are the gods of chaos really evil tho

[gusty gyro]

khorne wants killing for the sake of killing, nurgle wants everything to die a very plague-ridden death, and slaneesh wants everyone to die a painful and torturous death

[small needle]

https://tenor.com/view/40k-tts-emperor-warhammer-disgraceful-gif-16263370

Of course they are evil!

[normal stream]

I'd argue that's a very imperial centric way of looking at it. :p

[small needle]

they are bad and icky!

[normal stream]

After all, they're manifestations of aspects of base human nature.

[gusty gyro]

true

wouldn't that make all humans evil though

and further perpetuate the discussion of whether or not humans are inherently good or evil

[normal stream]

Bingo 😉

And since the emperor was a human once..

[gusty gyro]

but keyword was

because he is no longer human

does that make him not evil

[normal stream]

Hard to tell what he is now.

Is an astartes human? Is a custodian?

What about primarchs? Daemonhosts?

What are Perpetuals, then?

Are Perpetuals even human to begin with?

[gusty gyro]

how about this

[normal stream]

Also, technically Nurgle is the most loving of all of the gods

😂

[gusty gyro]

every little bit of life in the galaxy just needs to die

[gusty gyro]

lol

[normal stream]

Ahhh yes, come to papa nurgle

🤓

[crisp heath]

[silver bramble]

Lies. Heresy.

[formal wind]

Emperor is the Synthetic Chaos God of Hypocrisy.
Vashtorr on the other hand will soon Ascend to Godhood, and considering he is the byproduct of every technical evolution in Warhammer 40k AND that he is the sole arms dealer for all of the Chaos Gods, he could be a serious player in the upcoming lore. His model now is pretty cool but I think he will merge his soul to a machine that duplicated the forge of souls & the golden throne, merging the 3 into a Forge world so he Ascends to become an entire Chaos Manufactorum Planet that can travel through space and the warp at will. His minions are all his fallen enemies reanimated with ai, technology, and warp energy so their souls are dragged back in and trapped in their now transformed mechanical bodies, forced to take any and all orders from Vashtorr. Some of the lore makes me think he was an AI once so interfacing and taking over tech priests and the war machines on Mars would be a big surprise, even drawing tau in since their AI would deem Vashtorr a threat to the greater good while secretly wanting to unlock it's secrets for their own evolution. Kinda new to the lore of Warhammer 40k even tho Ive been a fan a long time but seems like it'll be cool!

[arctic talon]

We do know that vashtorr was never a mortal

They were just born

One day

[formal wind]

Are AI what they call "machine spirits" in 40k? or can consciousness be copied in the lore?

[storm jungle]

They are more or so AI

theres no AI consciousness, more just leftover artificial intelligence

[small needle]

If im not mistaken, Ogryn are as strong/stronger than Space Marines. Does it mean they could use a Heavy Bolter, given the chance, or a higher caliber one?

[unique berry]

https://youtube.com/shorts/_CTDIW8Fkp4?feature=share

💀

[rustic spruce]

the common ogryn isn't trusted with a heavy bolter not because they can't handle the recoil

but because there is a very real chance they're just gonna hit somebody with it

[storm jungle]

Nah ogryns could use boltguns

its mostly due to tabletop shenanigans

[small needle]

Theyre the best boys tho, im sure they gonna do just fine (ignores the guardsmen trying to reason with a enraged ogryn)

[storm jungle]

If the ogryn is engaged the guardsman probably did something stupid

[small needle]

guardsmen be like

https://tenor.com/view/riker-william-riker-star-trek-run-commander-riker-gif-22754370

ah shoot

nevermind then

[crisp heath]

Is there any lore on the Imperial Navy that isn't 20 years old?

I saw some of the art but it looked like it was from Rogue Trader or the early editions

[sacred pulsar]

Gothic armada series

[sinful vigil]

Are we getting Votann or Squats?

[sacred pulsar]

I just want me Bardin
Luv me squat Luv me powah ahma luv me plasma gunne

[arctic talon]

Yeah they use everything as a melee weapon lore wise

Weapons need to be ogryn Proofed

[rustic spruce]

the votann don't really play nice with the inquisition

plus I don't see the guys in charge allowing the votann to have their trademark power armor

[crisp heath]

I'm surprised there's no flavor text for the curios. You'd think, right?

[maiden plover]

Ogryn got engaged? Wonder who they are marrying.

[wintry acorn]

yesss this is where i need to be

can someone give me a rundown of what i need to know jumping into darktide?

i know minimal

and this is my first 40k game

[arctic talon]

Humanity is pretty evil, psykers are magic users who tap into an alternate dimension for power, nurgle is the god of plagues and diseases

The imperial guard is the primary fighting force of the imperium

Ogryns are abhumans and evolved from humans at one point

Abhumans are not mutants since abhumans can reproduce with each other

[wintry acorn]

Ok, and about the imperium in particular

What do we know about the god we serve?

[arctic talon]

The god emperor of man kind isn’t a real god

[wintry acorn]

Figured

[arctic talon]

He’s a very powerful psyker stuck on the golden throne

He can sorta give blessings and such

But nothing on the levels of a chaos god or a god in warhammer fantasy

[wintry acorn]

So we worship powerful aliens and people gifted powers as gods

But real gods exist too

[arctic talon]

If you worship an alien

You die

[wintry acorn]

Yea those are heratics

[arctic talon]

But yes the chaos gods are “real” gods

Along with the remaining eldar gods

The god emperor is just a really really strong psyker

[wintry acorn]

So if I’m getting it right, the Imperium worships it’s current leader, they see him as a god

Whoever leads is LIKE a god to them but not really

[arctic talon]

Yep

The god emperor doesn’t lead The imperium

Technically

[wintry acorn]

So am I wrong to associate the Imperium with the Crusaders and Christianity?

[rustic spruce]

how did ursula get creed's jacket if creed still had it when cadia fell

[celest dome]

He had spares ?

[near grail]

More or less, sure. The Imperium of Man was made as over-the-top parody of the worst ideologies in history: religious fanaticism, fascism, xenophobia, bloated bureaucracy, any authoritarianism, etc. etc..

Each faction was made to be ridiculously evil and monstrous so that there were no "good guys" in the 41st millennium

The Emperor of mankind is literally a cabal of ancient wizards who merged their souls into one to guide the path of humanity. They have been reincarnated thousands of times in a number of different roles, acting as "savior" and genocidal maniac (incidentally both at the same time in his current incarnation as the god-emperor). 40k has some REALLY esoteric bs in its lore...

[woeful bloom]

Also some dumb edgy shit

That gets unintentionally funny sometimes

[rustic spruce]

nids are just hangry bois

[near grail]

Oh, I'm fairly certain it was intended to be edgy to the point of ludicrous and absurd humor

Like, anyone that thinks anyone in the setting is a decent faction is just kidding themselves. When clerical errors get billions killed, there can be no good guy

[rustic spruce]

the jokaero are the good guys

[normal stream]

GW never answered this and even pointed it out

I always wondered if jokaero can tell good.. jokes. Lmao

[woeful bloom]

from what I recall, it wasn't serious until it was

and then we get shit like the 5th codex about the grey knights and sisters of battle

[near grail]

Hyup

[normal stream]

haha matt ward

[woeful bloom]

yeah I heard he has some infamy

[normal stream]

To be fair in BL we have Ian Watson and CS Goto too for memes, the former whom preceeded 5th Ed Matt Ward GK by quite a few years

[rustic spruce]

does waaagh energy make other factions red vehicles go faster

[umbral oxide]

whoever leads isn’t like a god, the god status isn’t based on leadership, but rather the emperor himself. Although the emperor never wanted to be seen as a god and that’s what people don’t understand

[umbral oxide]

based on the ork’s proximity so most likely no until it’s close enough to get reality warped

[arctic talon]

No, the waaagh field only really works on orks and ork red vehicles usually have way heavier modifications then normal

[near grail]

Ehh, never “wanted to” but certainly believed in a “at any cost” method and didn’t leave much room for other results.

[near grail]

Technically Ork belief only works if genuinely believed by a massive swath of Orks. Maybe possible, but you’d be hard pressed to get enough to hold that common belief

[scenic sun]

To be fair said emperor performed miracles ln the regular, was a giant man in golden armour, irradiating light. You'd be forgiven to think he was a god by me, but most of his miracles can be explained away by "he is a powerful pysker"

[near grail]

Oh for sure. And might actually be a proper chaos god equivalent these days

In as much as the cult of the emperor empowers their idea of him

[normal stream]

Certainly there's miracles and acts of faith happening, without his direct intervention.

So arguably, in some form, he is a god of some kind.

[near grail]

Well, miracles to the people that perceive them. The internal logic of the setting is that there is no god, only powerful entities

[normal stream]

Uh. Tell that to the Sororitas, Living Saints, Resurrected Saints, etc.

[dusk patrol]

The terminology is moot, powerful entities are gods in the setting

[normal stream]

Yep.

[dusk patrol]

It’s the cause in a lot of different settings anyways

[normal stream]

Old Ones were pretty much gods

[dusk patrol]

Like in God of War the gods are basically just powerful wizards

[scenic sun]

To me a god in unkillable, unstoppable. None of the Warhammer gods manage thay

[scenic sun]

True enough, it's the destination between the Christian definition of 'god' and pagan definition of a 'god'

[dusk patrol]

That’s ok for your definition but there’s no hard set definition for what a god is, the book Godblight discusses this

[normal stream]

Yeah, no god is unkillable. They can kill one another, after all.

[celest dome]

There is no way other than God to qualify those entities

[scenic sun]

To Christians a god can only be unstoppable, all knowing, all benevolent

To pagans, gods are just superman

Powerful sure, but human all the same, and they can be killed

[dusk patrol]

It’s just a title which doesn’t necessarily mean much, it’s like how calling someone a Wizard or a Witch is pretty vague and can mean a lot of different things depending on the setting.

Anyways my point is just that by the 40k general rules and standards Big E is definitely a god now.

[near grail]

Fair. Just means “one of most powerful entities in setting”

[dusk patrol]

Basically

[normal stream]

Yep

Old Ones were pretty much gods by every definition

But they're just awiens

[celest sable]

There's a difference between the chaos gods though and the emperor having been imbued with enough power to be considered one. The emperor is still a single entity whereas each chaos god is more of a concept than an entity

At least that's how it always seemed to me

[near grail]

They’re concepts that gained sentience

[scenic sun]

Same standards dictate that particularly powerful Daemon princes, greater daemons or just very powerful pyskers can be gods too

Like, where do you draw a line?

[atomic lodge]

typically, at the neck

[scenic sun]

Based and no tyrants shall rule us

[dusk patrol]

Yes it does

And some are called that

[atomic lodge]

that is to say: in universe, all that really matters there is what you can get away with making people believe

[dusk patrol]

There’s a very meta conversation about this in the book Godblight between Eldrad and Guilliman, and it’s basically just saying that it’s subjective and it’s just a title

[normal stream]

Ahhh, big E has a bit more lore to that

[atomic lodge]

people believe Big E is a god, and fervent belief in Him has manifested miracles, so for any 40k intents and purposes he's functionally a god

[normal stream]

Part of the old lore of the Emperor was that he was made manifest using the souls of a bunch of psyker lords trying to create a "new man"

This wasn't ever refuted in future editions

In fact I think it was further built upon with the Star Child and Sensei lore

Acknowledged in the terrible (and later un-canonized) Ian Watson books

And then further refined/solidified with the idea that he's a Perpetual in the HH books

So, yeah, not just a normal dude who was a powerful psyker

[scenic sun]

Marcador has the same thing big E does

Malcador*

[hushed kayak]

we don’t know how the Emperor manifested. But there are good theories out there

[scenic sun]

Perpetual and strong pysker

[celest sable]

Sure, but that was the emperor at the time of the great crusade. Definitely not just a normal dude, but I wouldn't characterize him as a god at the time. In 40k he's been imbued with thousands more souls from the sacrificed psykers, as well as whatever power he gains from Imperial worship. So his power level may have increased in some sense, despite becoming handicapped to the throne

[normal stream]

Yep, I'm referring to the fact that he was never a normal being to begin with.

[celest sable]

Ah ok

[scenic sun]

No perpetual or pysker is

[normal stream]

Just because a god makes itself manifest in the material realm doesn't make them any less of a god 🙂

(see: Khaine, or, well, bits of Khaine)

[normal stream]

Uh, it was actually documented in RT and the LatD lore book that accompanied it

It's just unclear how much of that is still canon - but nothing following has challenged it, and actually only reinforced bits of it.

[hushed kayak]

that was a thing?

[normal stream]

Yes.

Then again, we also had Gods of Order back then in addition to Gods of Chaos, so..

[hushed kayak]

i need to read this

[quaint sparrow]

I know the Veteran references it a lot, what is the lore importance of the 73.7?

Is it a guardsmen regiment?

[normal stream]

RT is a deep dark hole 😆

I had the fortune of starting in 2nd Ed and building a library of really, really, really, old books

There was a point in the mid-90s where I had every 40k BL and lore book ever published, was a bit of a nerd

[hushed kayak]

the Warhammer universe is already hell

[normal stream]

yeah 😄

[hushed kayak]

73.7?

[quaint sparrow]

Yeah, the 73·7 is a face tattoo only Vets can get.

So I was wondering if there was any lore significance?

[hushed kayak]

i know 7 is the Inquisition number revenue they usually go by

might be related to that?

[quaint sparrow]

Could be! Just a small detail I noticed. A lot of the tattoos have your general "for the imperium" vibe, but this was one of the few that super stood out to me.

[hushed kayak]

might be a regiment number, or related to a squad number. i’ll have to check that for you now this caught my interest

[quaint sparrow]

Please lmk! I am glad to have perked some interest.

[tired umbra]

It's their K/D ratio

[quaint sparrow]

I mean damn a 73/7 ratio is pretty good

[tired umbra]

That's why they're a veteran.

[quaint sparrow]

Goddamn right that's why he is.

[tired umbra]

You can't survive the Cadia matches if you ain't a real G

[noble hinge]

how big is this hive city?

atoma prime

[tired umbra]

Like all hive cities it's absolutely bonkers off the wall big.

It's basically a damn country stacked vertically

[celest dome]

More like multiple countries

[balmy coral]

I apologize if this is a question thats been asked a lot already but... where do i start if i wanna learn about 40k lore? This is the first 40k game ive played so ik basically nothing

Any good websites, yt channels, etc?

[merry vale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoIOkIXXM64 and the rest of this channel, https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/

[balmy coral]

ohh, ty^^

[hoary oriole]

honestly Luetin's deep dive video could be pinned its such a phenomenal intro video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLoEhgcyzc

laid a great foundation for me as an intro to darktide and 40k overall

[balmy coral]

ah, should i watch the deep dive first then?

[merry vale]

yeh absolutely, other than that, you could get into reading some books but thats a significantly bigger time investment. Ravenor is pretty good for example, topical with the whole inquisition thing, and "incidentally" written by Darktide's writer

[hoary oriole]

luetin has a wealth of videos on all sorts of stuff that interests you, from what i've heard from many is theres no real correct way to consume or enter into any of it, ppl generally gravitate to something that catches their eye and it tends to spiderweb from there

so after the deep dive video if you're interested in a certain group or area, theres usually a wealth of content/resources to dive deeper

[scenic sun]

other groups that also aren't mentioned in luetin's vid may also interest you. go check hem out

[woeful bloom]

Do you think ligma has significance in the 40k universe

[normal stream]

Probably one of the best, if not the best, inquisition authors.

[merry vale]

absolutely, you mean ligma the slaneeshi great demon or one of the ancient psykers that ||created the emperor|| ?

[woeful bloom]

Oh God figures it would be a slanesh demon

[tired thistle]

Wasn't Ligma the daemon in Fulgrims Laer blade?

[dusk patrol]

Yeah it lig's my foot up your ass

[uneven temple]

[woeful bloom]

That's lig not ligma, do you have difficulty with reading

[dusk patrol]

The ma comes later

[celest dagger]

I started reading Gaunt's Ghosts and this game has really helped me visualise certain weapons described on the pages. also made me hope for more weapons like rocket launchers

[tired thistle]

Achillan Mark III, would be a possibility, it is used by the Guard

[turbid gazelle]

So how out of the question do you think crusader armour cosmetics would be for the preacher.
I’d say the same for SoB but that would be a female exclusive and might be a later subclass

[spark relic]

It feels too unlike the zealot

The class is built around being fast, agile and hit hard

Armour would mean slower and bulkier

[normal stream]

Crusader, maybe as a future class. I doubt we'd see SoB as a class as that means giving us power armor.

[turbid gazelle]

Until you realise the crusaders are just finical in combat and probably as fast

And yeeeeah, problem is future classes need voices, balancing and time spent on them or you could just make a cosmetic that’ll save lots of time.
Afterall durability doesn’t matter as the vet and psyker can get carapace alternatives

[normal stream]

I could see crusader subclass getting their iconic power sword/storm shield loadout

[turbid gazelle]

Tru tru

[normal stream]

Like, sure, a cosmetic would be easier than a new class. But we already know there's new classes coming soo

[turbid gazelle]

Tru

I wonder of you can switch subclasses, Although a commissar subclass would be dope

[tired thistle]

Failed Aspirand, could be interesting as a class, maby with one or two organs already impanted

[normal stream]

I'm hoping you can tbh

[daring cove]

Unless it's Repentia, but that feels like Zealot already.

[normal stream]

Yeah, agreed.

[celest dome]

SoB reject axed on Act/Shied of Faith (No need to give them Power Armour)

[normal stream]

In most cases they end up as Serfs or die during the process. S

[turbid gazelle]

^

[normal stream]

Like all of the subclasses will need a lore explanation for how they became convicts.

[turbid gazelle]

Yeah at the start, But when you’re level 30, Why not give em PA

[tired thistle]

There is a short story of a Krieg deserter, everything is possible xD

[normal stream]

Not sure how that's even comparable...

[dusk patrol]

Also like, the archetypes we have are super broad right now

People always suggest way too specific things. Like Kriegers or Catachan

[normal stream]

Agreed

Although, they just need to add krieg or Catachan as an origin choice besides "cadia's debris field" 😏

And that'd satisfy it

[dusk patrol]

It’s more just, we’re not gonna get specific examples like that

[minor lance]

So, when do we get a Space Marine class?

[dusk patrol]

We’re gonna get like “guardsmen brawlers”

Might get cosmetics for Krieg or Catachan

[normal stream]

Ya

[minor lance]

@normal stream Don't laugh I wanna play as my favourite chapter, the Ultramarines!

But yeah, cosmetics are the most likely option

Like, the Preacher has Sisters-Repentia-With-a-Bolter vibes

The Preacher in general has Sisters of Battle vibes.

[tawdry wyvern]

not sure if it fits, but maybe I have just a grpahics bug or something: So the power sword is described to have a blue glimmer, when activated, does that mean, when using the special button, that we only activate it for a couple of seconds and that sparkling effect is simulating the glimmer effect or is this rather some type of "overcharge" and it actually is constantly glimmering, because its always activated and I just have a graphics bug, that I should report?
because on my pc it just looks like the catachan sword

[minor lance]

Bruh this is the lore chat.

[tawdry wyvern]

ye I know, but its somewhat a lore thing if this is correctly displayed

[minor lance]

[tawdry wyvern]

thats why I said, I'm not exactly sure

[minor lance]

Jokes aside, it's worth reporting. Make sure to include logs for a bug like that!
E: WAit wait lemm,e reread

Ok yeah, if it's always active that's a bug.

[tawdry wyvern]

ahh, because back in the trailer it was blueish, and I was wondering if they changed it

so its more like a overcharge function, which brings me to the lore back too, is this just for the sake of gameplay, or does this actually exist in the lore?

but also thanks, I'll report it

[tired thistle]

the Dethcore are the most loyal Guardfaction, it is their only goal to die for the Emperor, the Krieg commisars have to make sure that Kriegsman don't throw themselves to carelesly at the enemy, their whole life they are told how ashamed and guilty they should feel because of their leaders betrayl hundrets of years ago, so it is extremly unlikely that one of them deserts, so you can argue that an aspirant ending up in prison is less unlikely, considering there are chapters that get labelled traitor or end up on the Inquisitions naughty list like the Celestial lions

[delicate pagoda]

Do we know which ordo Grendyl belongs to? i'd assume hereticus or malleus, but do we have anything official to confirm?

[minor lance]

I'd look up some online footage first to be sure it's a bug, but it does sound like it

[delicate pagoda]

This is a good point. Maybe we should be assuming careers that are applicaple to most "standard" millitarum armies, instead of classes based on specific worlds.

[minor lance]

This is a meme, btw. Like, yes, Kriegers are a LOT more willing to die, but they're not suicidal. They're efficient, but repentant, soldiers. They don't want to just die for the Emperor, they want to honour big E and, if that means death, so be it. Remember that Kriegers have shot their commissars before because the commissar denied a retreat, when the rest of the company knew it was the tactically best option.

I think a more accurate depiction of Kriegers is that they are built for war just as much Cadians were, but instead of individual military perfection it was military tactics and ruthlessness. Unlike most, Kriegers are fully aware that they are pawns; but they are also aware, as any good chess player will tell you, that pawns are the most powerful piece on the board - And just like pawns, they know that sometimes they need to be sacrificed.

[tired thistle]

In my defense I'm only 50 pages into the Krieg book ^^'

maby arch isn't the best source for lore 😕

[minor lance]

Ok my post got deleted. Probably because I said an S word that involved self harm. With the bot gave a heads up there. Anyway, point is, I think you'll appreciate the complexity of Kriegers more with that in mind.

Also, no, Arch is a terrible source for lore. For a lot of reasons. Outside of being one of those types who actually likes the Imperium and thinks they're good guys (the Imperium is, by design, extremely evil), he also messes with lore interpretation to suit what he wants a faction to be.

[spark relic]

Isn't Arch also racist?

Or am I getting him mixed up with another controversial WH YT'er?

[minor lance]

Adeptus Ridiculous is a much better source. They get some stuff wrong, but far less than Arch does, and usually by mistake instead of intent. Their delivery is also a lot more humorous, chill, and entertaining. Both they and Arch basically do the same thing anyway, which is read from the wiki.

@spark relic Yes, but I didn't wanna bring that up since this didn't feel the place to. But you are correct, Arch is very much a bigot in general.

[spark relic]

Adeptus Ridiculous is a great source, along with people like Majorkill and PancreasNoWork

At least I hope Major is still good, I haven't watched his stuff in a while

[plush mason]

Majorkill is more meme lore tho, and says it himself many times in many videos

[spark relic]

Fair point

[plush mason]

cause he is a shitposter as well as a loretuber

[minor lance]

Honestly, I was trying to be subtle about the Arch bigot thing by saying he was an unironic imperium supporter. That carries a lot of connotations ;p

[plush mason]

as does his love of the DKOK

iirc he has like 6 videos just for Vraks alone on his channel

[tired thistle]

ok seeing some of arches statements hell no, thanks for the warning guys

[plush mason]

yeah

[minor lance]

Yyyyyyyyup
Strong recommend of Adeptus Ridiculous. Basically Arch but not bigoted, and better in every way.

Plus, if you're ever interested in the tabletop, the 2 main voices in it are also part of the Dicecheck crew on YT.

[tired thistle]

Uh the every W40k faction explained guy has a podcast :D, I like this Discord

[minor lance]

Yep! Bricky is the 'host' of Adeptus Ridiculous!

[plush mason]

yup

Bricky is also playing Darktide, which i honestly assume every warhammer YT is or will be if they havent pre ordered

[tired thistle]

And the 40K rabbithole gets deeper and deeper

[minor lance]

Here lemme help

Sisters of Silence are the best ever. No exception. Just remember that and you're good.

This advice is free. You're welcome.

[plush mason]

btw, someone asked what the dregs are chanting when they swarm a while back

its "flies"

just flies, over and over

[spark relic]

Makes sense

[plush mason]

just nurgle things

[spark relic]

When you cut the horde enemies to pieces they spew forth maggots instead of blood in many cases

[minor lance]

Oh mah gottt that's disgusting.

[tired thistle]

In Flight of the Eisenestein they were pretty badass

[spark relic]

Just Nurgle things

[minor lance]

They are always badass. They're 'normal' humans (with the exception of their null gene) that pull off stuff that'd make Astartes blush.

[delicate pagoda]

wtf is that one lore youtuber called? relatively new channel. RPs as an actual warhammer historian. Can't for the life of me remember his name

[minor lance]

I love them, and want more TT rules for them. Thankfully, Kill Team respects the gals far more than the standard TT.

[spark relic]

Remembrancer?

I think that's the name anyhow

[tired thistle]

The Emberking??

[delicate pagoda]

it is, but he specifically does not RP as a remembrancer

more like an administratum clerk or something

Found it!

Oculus Imperia

[tired thistle]

I thought about starting an Army, had Sororitas or Mechanicus in mind, I think i check out Sisters too

[minor lance]

Nah, you really can't do a Sisters of Silence army. They're adding stuff over time. Maybe in 10th it'll be possible! But as it stands they're just (very good) support for your Custodes on TT. It's similar in Kill Team, they're just done a lot more justice there.

[spark relic]

I wouldn't call him new but yeah he's good!

[delicate pagoda]

You're absolutely right. not sure why i thought he was new

[spark relic]

There's so many small channels that you will certainly get them mixed up

No problem

[tired thistle]

So Marsiboys it is^^

[minor lance]

If you wanna start an army, Kill Team is a lot cheaper to get into (and a better game, imo. It just lacks the scale)

[lime lance]

The toaster cult disagrees

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-techpriest-binaric-screeching-screeching-gif-20192683

[normal stream]

The Krieg source books (IA) are probably the best and most reliable lore, btw.

[lime lance]

Toaster cult for life 🙏

[normal stream]

In general, don't rely on youtubers to summarize the lore. It's way too dense and open to interpretation (plus exceptions to the rule, retcons, Inconsistencies) to take it as gospel. Do your own research and make your own informed conjectures based on source material.

[lime lance]

That’s very true

[crisp heath]

In general, the lore is whatever you think is cool 😎

[spark relic]

Lmao, the toaster cult is adorable but I prefer killing my gods instead of worshipping them

Necrons for the win!

[tired thistle]

Warhammer wiki is not accesable at work but youtube is, luetin09 seems a good source, his hour long lore videos are the reason I am here, Baldermort and The Ember King have some good videos

[spark relic]

Have you tried to access the Lexicanum site?

It's also a WH wiki

[tired thistle]

Il'l try on Monday, thx for the tip 👍

[spark relic]

Happy to help!

[tired thistle]

Anyone hyped for the Sanguinius Primarch book?

[urban spire]

glad to hear about that, getting into third party media around 40k can be tricky because of that kind of stuff

[minor lance]

Now that the 'normies' have invaded it's getting a lot easier, thankfully.

[urban spire]

i think something about luetin made me stop watching his stuff but i don't remember what

[plush mason]

ummmmmmmmm. i guess this is a snack pouch?

[urban spire]

love to carry around a big meat on a bone

[plush mason]

what exactly do ogryn eat?

[urban spire]

meat, grass, small rocks, anything that smells good and fits in their mouth

[plush mason]

so human and ratling are both on the menu

[urban spire]

a fair few things that don't smell good, just in case they taste good anyway

nah regular humans look like ogryn children

[plush mason]

ok

[urban spire]

one of the reasons they are so protective of them

ogryns are too good for the imperium they do not deserve them

[plush mason]

so like lamas with alpacas

and that is a real fact, lamas are used as guard animals on alpaca farms because the lamas treat the alpacas as their own children

[urban spire]

adorable

[rapid jay]

is the old inquisitor lady from the trailer in the game?

[dusk patrol]

She’s not an Inquisitor and not currently

Although she is mentioned

[celest dome]

Shipmistress Bharm or something

[rich sail]

that lady with funny hair is a rogue trader

[celest dome]

Not sure about that. The only think I think we know is that she is the Shipmistress

Which while the Rogue Traders are. The Imperial Navy also has

[dusk patrol]

I think there’s some stuff which implies she might be but it’s not confirmed

[plush mason]

are they building ships here or stripping them down for parts and metal

[dusk patrol]

Probably building

[noble hinge]

is Imperial Edition worth it?

[urban spire]

on tertium? no way they're building ships, the knowledge of how to build ships is largely lost

[dusk patrol]

It’s up to you and also this isn’t a lore thing

[dusk patrol]

Uh, no. This is completely wrong

They’ve made countless new models since the GC, they constantly build ships.

[urban spire]

yes, this is a wonderful feature of the mechanicus

[dusk patrol]

Indomitus had Guilliman demand they step up production

[urban spire]

~knowledge hoarding~

[dusk patrol]

They build ships, idk what your talking about. Tertium probably uses its special metal to make them, if they do.

Although this might just be a shipyard tbh.

[urban spire]

so given that atoma prime is not a forge world, chances are slim anyone there knows how to build a ship

[dusk patrol]

Did you miss the fact that there’a massive Ad Mech facilities we run through?

[urban spire]

manufactorums in a hive do not make a hive world a forge world

[dusk patrol]

Hive worlds often can be almost as industrialized as Forge Worlds, look at Armageddon.

[dusk patrol]

And I didn’t say it did

[crisp heath]

They keep hinting that Tertium has an extra special purpose that we don’t know about

[dusk patrol]

They don’t make ships only on forge worlds

[crisp heath]

I wonder what it is

[urban spire]

level of industrialization isn't really what makes something a forge world

although it's obviously a factor

[dusk patrol]

I’m aware I never said it was a forge world

[noble hinge]

what are the preorder items? i dont see extra items if i preorder

[dusk patrol]

The point is the Ad Mech does not only make things on Forge Worlds

[crisp heath]

Will be given at launch also this is lore chat

[noble hinge]

ty

[dusk patrol]

But tbh I think that mission is just in a shipyard

Might just be doing repairs.

[urban spire]

i am fairly confident the mechanicus only builds ships in facilities entirely under their control, but i'm willing to admit i could be wrong

[dusk patrol]

Generally speaking Ad Mech facilities are completely under their control

[arctic talon]

Jupiter isn’t under their control and still build ships, but that’s a great crusade era remenet

[dusk patrol]

There also just ship yards in general around the Imperium

I believe BFGA has a few they show

[urban spire]

sort of, in a hive like tertium a manufactorum run by the mechanicum is still subordinate to the planetary governor

[dusk patrol]

Planets with orbital rings for the ships yards and such

[urban spire]

sol system is pretty unique in a lot of regards

[dusk patrol]

Debatable if push came to shove

The Ad Mech has whole sections on Terra and various worlds where the Imperium authorities technically don’t have authority to enter without permission, or a good reason

It just becomes a political thing at that point

The same way a Governor can technically tell the local Bishop or whatever to shove it, but he’s risking a lot of he does so

the Ad Mech clearly has huge ties to Atoma Prime and it’s likely they are a massive political force on the planet

[rich sail]

on paper yes they do have authority over the admech but in practice they do not, you do not try to piss off the guys that build all your guns and tanks 🙂

[urban spire]

if push comes to shove yeah, the mechanicus is technically a separate political entity, but if the planetary administration is imperium, then the workers most likely are too

[dusk patrol]

Sure but that’s my point, it becomes political then. It’s the question of who gets a sell sword to listen to them, a king a priest or a rich man.

[urban spire]

so they could shut down their facility, but not directly control the output

anyway that's kind of ancillary to my point, which is that the mechanicus tendency to hoard knowledge means shipyards are very rare and usually on or around forge worlds

at least ones capable of manufacturing whole ships

[plush mason]

hell its likely that politics is the only reason atoma wasnt handed over to the ad mech during the great crusade

btw do the ad mech control industrial worlds or no?

[urban spire]

most hive worlds are some flavour of industrial, they are imperial

admech worlds are called forge worlds, as bad as hive worlds are, forge worlds are worse

[plush mason]

in the character creator one of the worlds in the sector is called an industrial world home to countless manufactorums

sounds almost like a forge world

[urban spire]

could be

[dusk patrol]

It might be but it could just be an industrial world

Ad Mech almost always have a large presence on worlds with a lot of industry regardless

[plush mason]

wtf is the difference between an industrial world and a forge world?

[vital comet]

what map is this anyways

[plush mason]

a new one from a new mission

[vital comet]

new mission arent showing up for some reason

[plush mason]

i got into it from the quickfinder tho so i dont know what the mission is called

[urban spire]

ownership mostly, and level of technology

also level of human rights abuses

a forge world is creating juicier stuff using more efficient technology and is also abusing its workers WAY more

[ember herald]

Looked more like stripping down to me; the thrusters on that ship look blown out

[dusk patrol]

Forge worlds are just another scale basically.

It’s like the difference between a normal old small town factory and a mile long complex which services half the country.

[open gorge]

Could a space marine survive a tank shot? And also if let's say a sniper shoots them in the head could they survive that?

[tulip sand]

Bro i wish the AI would wear cosmetics similar to whatever level you are

Its weird being fully armored in a squad of pajama wearers

[dusk patrol]

Depends on the tank

A direct hit would be unlikely for the average marine

But it’s possible

[open gorge]

Ah right I noticed they got some tanks with idk, lazers? in 40k. Cool

[tulip sand]

Also the new mission is kind of larger scale

I hope we get a bit more of that with setpieces like the siege in vermintide 2

[dusk patrol]

They got literally everything

Plasma tanks, tanks with giant rockets, tanks with auto cannon, Tesla tanks, graviton tanks and so on.

[noble hinge]

who wants to watch the best warhammer 40k movie?

[dusk patrol]

If you say Event Horizon like it’s a clever and original take I’ll Event my foot up your Horizon

[hearty bluff]

What about deepwater horizon?

[plush mason]

lol

[crisp heath]

DAE event horizon is just Gellar field off

[unreal stream]

rogal dorn

robooty guerillaman

[crisp heath]

I like it, in the cutscenes you see mixed squads too, fresh prisoners and veterans in the same units

[rustic spruce]

so does ork genetic memory unlock more and more advanced technology the more organized they become

like in the war of the beast

[dusk patrol]

Yerp

[storm jungle]

Orks are more or so playing Psychic Mafia City yeah

https://tenor.com/view/level-up-dancing-victory-dance-happy-dance-transformation-gif-15004862

[ashen shoal]

They also scale dynamically with who they face, so if some really primitive orks start fighting like the eldar or some shit, they'll quickly reach a roughly equivalent level of tech

But if some really sophisticated orks get onto a feudal world, they'll also regress back to being roughly equivalent in tech

[winter vessel]

The Ork power of belief is one the few most baffling topics I've ever learned.

[celest sable]

We'z da fastest and da meanest der iz

https://tenor.com/view/savage-orcs-dance-warhammer-total-war-greenskins-orcs-dancing-orcs-gif-22350988

[tulip sand]

Ye hopefully we can choose how to customize any ai we end up playing with like vt2

[noble hinge]

yey i can put my gif!

[tulip sand]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-dramatic-toy-fall-over-fall-off-gif-17714939

https://tenor.com/view/dsgrotto-gif-21625086

Wasnt there a normal guardsman who got buffed because the orks thought he was strokg

Strong

[celest sable]

commissar yarrick maybe? dunno of other imperials that orks respekt

[tulip sand]

Yesh that guy

I wonder if the inquisition or something could psyop the orks into buffing people as necessary

[celest sable]

they'd have to brainwash a lot of orks for that to happen. Would be really funny if they found a way to though

[storm jungle]

Nah

thats just meme-lore

ork gestalt abilities dont work that way

[tulip sand]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

Isnt that the meme about red vehicles

[storm jungle]

yeah

[tulip sand]

So thats real or just meme

[storm jungle]

meme

[tulip sand]

Bro whaat

[storm jungle]

The colors have no specialty, its the orks SAYING THEY DO that affects the shit they do.

you dont paint a vehicle red and it automatically goes faster lmao

[winter vessel]

Has it been confirmed if Yarrick is dead? Ghazghkull Thraka's gonna be pissed if he did

[rustic spruce]

wasn't it the Anzion Theorem that led to that belief about waaagh energy

[storm jungle]

Yep

also again

THEOREM

its not solid proof

[celest sable]

are there any primorks around in 40k? or was it just in the War of the Beast?

[storm jungle]

Just war of the beast

[tulip sand]

So if the orks believed and said that commissar was strongest then what would happen

Wtf are primorks

[storm jungle]

No lmao

[tulip sand]

Primaris orks

[celest sable]

primarch orks

[storm jungle]

Ork belief power works for mechanical shit and whatnot

[celest sable]

primorks

[winter vessel]

Krorks?

[storm jungle]

not literal reality defying

[tulip sand]

Hmm

[rustic spruce]

does that mean it works on necrons

[tulip sand]

Yoo

[storm jungle]

No because necrons arent robots

and they literally work on space magic

nothing psychic to it

[ashen shoal]

I've seen it best described as Ork gestalt field basically works as a slight lubricant on reality, maybe the vehicle runs a tiny bit more efficiently than physically possible, or their guns are more accurate than their quality of ammo, but it won't allow them to be killed by finger guns or whatever other weird meme nonsense

[storm jungle]

Yeah its more or so literally psychic ductape

it will work on mostly stuff belonging to orks but its mostly for guns and anything mechanical like vehicles

[tulip sand]

Also didnt the orks do like a wagh right into the epicenter of the big warpstorm that fucked up the imperium

[storm jungle]

Uh, cannot recall

ork Waaaghs happen everywhere

[celest sable]

there's an Ork that took a Waagh in the eye of terror

[tulip sand]

Ye i mean like it got redirected or something right into the chaos storm

Yeah that

[storm jungle]

oh Tuska yeah

[celest sable]

tusk killa i think

[tulip sand]

Based

[rustic spruce]

in the grim darkness of the far futre, THERE IS ONLY WAAAAGHHH

[storm jungle]

Hes basically eternally trapped in the realm of khorne fighting daemons

[tulip sand]

Fun times for him

[storm jungle]

Kinda

[celest sable]

yeah fought some demons during warp travel, realised they're a good fight then took the fight to them

[tulip sand]

So the orks fungus also works there too

[storm jungle]

hes enjoying himself but hes more or so literally a puppet

whenever he dies khorne resurrects him

but he probably doesnt care so eh

[storm jungle]

Nah khorne just flicks a hand and brings him back

[tulip sand]

So he makes khorne more powerful?

By fighting

[rustic spruce]

khorne resets the day each time tuska or the daemons he's fighting dies

[storm jungle]

More or less

[tulip sand]

Damn

[ashen shoal]

You'd think gork and mork would have something to say about that

[storm jungle]

Yeah ikr lmao

Gork and Mork look after their own surprisingly a lot

[tulip sand]

Are they the gods that are like

One is big and strong and the other is strong and big

[storm jungle]

One is sneaky and the other is strong

[winter vessel]

one is brutal but cunning and the other is cunning but brutal

[tulip sand]

Yuh

[celest dome]

Brutally Cunning and Cunningly Brutal

[winter vessel]

that's like some Alpharius-Omegon shit level of confusion

[celest dome]

Nah, not really

[storm jungle]

Yeah there isnt

[winter vessel]

to the unlearned mind that is

[tulip sand]

So the main fight of 40k is against chaos now also right

[storm jungle]

Mork is the sneaky git
Gork is the brawn git

[storm jungle]

Chaos is the main "villain" yeah

[celest dome]

Alpha/Omegon are uncomprehenzible at the moment

[storm jungle]

its been that way since forever

[tulip sand]

Oh i thought that was new

[storm jungle]

Nah its always been the case

since like

[winter vessel]

"i am Alpharius, this is a lie"

[storm jungle]

the 80's

[celest dome]

Was Gork the one that took Grimgor as champion during the ET ?

[tulip sand]

So im guessing these other races were added later

[storm jungle]

Yee

[celest dome]

And Mork for Skarsnik

[winter vessel]

Tau are the most newest faction iirc

[storm jungle]

Nah

its Votann

[winter vessel]

recent

[celest dome]

League of Votaan, but they existed before as the Squat

[storm jungle]

GSC are the most "recent"

[winter vessel]

oh yeah votann forgot about that

[tulip sand]

But also chaos is kind of unbeatable because any sort of fighting you do buffs khorne

GSC?

[storm jungle]

Genestealer Cult

[tulip sand]

Those are tyrannids tho right

[celest dome]

Somewhat

[storm jungle]

Nah

[winter vessel]

They're something worse

[storm jungle]

GSC are a seperate faction technically

[rustic spruce]

da big raid is one of my favorite ork related events

[tulip sand]

Is it not like brain control bugs

[storm jungle]

also I checked

Tuska hasnt been mentioned since like

2008

christ im old

[tulip sand]

My girlfriend has a 40k store near her house and there were a lot of votann things there when we checked out the store

[storm jungle]

Votann are kind of in a tricky spot atm yeah

[tulip sand]

I thought that was fantasy warhammer or like 30k or something lmaoo

[celest sable]

do you guys reckon it'd be possible to see the Alpha legion split between loyalists and traitors after the siege of terra?
e.g Alpharius goes traitor and Omegon goes loyalist

[celest dome]

I'm from 1999, and at a work meeting everyone was surprised that I was that young

[storm jungle]

Lmao to be fair they are literally space dwarves

[celest sable]

given the whole shtick with them going traitor was that Horus would win

[tulip sand]

I understand they are dwarves but allied with the humans

Because they used to be humans too

[celest dome]

Possibly, but not in great enough number to matter

[storm jungle]

The Alpha Legion was always nothing but traitors, they wanted to save humanity without helping the Imperium during the Heresy but fucked that up and entirely went to chaos

nothing they have done in lore has helped the Imperium

[rustic spruce]

imagine your a tau going about your normal day, when suddenly a shit ton of ork kommandos pour out of a ship in your docking yard, make a b line to the reactor, and smash everything they can get their hands on.

[celest sable]

afaik there's nothing on what they're up to in 40k, that's why i think it could be possible

[tulip sand]

I thought alpha legion were unknown loyalty

[storm jungle]

nah

thats just memes

they are all traitors

[tulip sand]

What chaos god do they work for

[storm jungle]

No one

mostly Undivided

they use chaos as a tool mostly but still can get heavily mutated

[tulip sand]

Bro those are these shitters that keep meming up the lore i have no idea whats real or not LMFAO

[storm jungle]

Yeah nah its real

[tulip sand]

Who are these*

[storm jungle]

people just love to meme about them

they are just chaos

[unique berry]

Haha

[rustic spruce]

how come we've never seen perturabo's daemon form

[storm jungle]

They literally, make a psychic thunderstorm on a planet that rains fucking poisonous snakes and kills the entire population for no reason

[celest dome]

Khorne: World Eater
Slaanesh: Emperor Children
Nurgle: Death Guard
Tzeentch: Thousand Sons
Undivided: Iron Warriors; Alpha; Batman

[crisp heath]

What's the lore reason lohner is a medicae now

[storm jungle]

He got promoted

didnt you read the new codex

smh

[celest dome]

It's just the same VA

[unique berry]

Batman?

[celest sable]

dont forget word bearers

night lords

[winter vessel]

Off-topic: Nykona Sharrowkyn's one I consider a ChadMarine for defeating Lucius the Eternal and not being a victim of the resurrection curse.

[storm jungle]

No thats World Bearers

you are confusing them with Word Eaters

[celest dome]

Word Bearer as so lame I forget that

[storm jungle]

😎

[tulip sand]

So i know that the chaos gods fight each other and thats why the galaxy wasnt destroyed but what do undivided do

Do they just like prank people

[celest sable]

haha almost got me

[storm jungle]

Serve all 4 gods

they believe in that big money game boi

[rustic spruce]

didn't abaddon put a kill order on all of biles creations after the horus clone situation

[storm jungle]

Yes lmao

like

[tulip sand]

Horus clone?

[storm jungle]

imagine some freaky german scientist cloning your dad

wouldnt you want them dead too

[celest dome]

Not sure

I like my dad

[storm jungle]

yeah but its NOT your dad

[celest dome]

Having 2 around would be fun

[storm jungle]

After the battle, the warship was won back by the forces of Chaos led by Ezekyle Abaddon, Captain of the 1st Company. Abaddon found Horus's body and ordered the retreat into the Eye of Terror. The body of Horus is said to have been put on display in a temple, the Sons of Horus revering the Warmaster even in death. At the end of a series of inter-traitor wars, the fortress of the Sons on Maleum was destroyed, and the body of Horus stolen by the Emperor's Children. To the disgust of the Sons, the body was used by Fabius Bile to create at least one clone of Horus.[7]

Ultimately, Abaddon returned to lead forces to destroy the Emperor Children's fortress and the clone of Horus with it. At the climax of the battle, Abaddon, wielding the Talon of Horus, confronted the clone of Horus who was armed with Worldbreaker. After killing scores of Abaddon's allies, the clone of Horus caught sight of the Talon of Horus being worn by another. Horus' clone lashed out at Abaddon with Worldbreaker, but the First Captain caught it with the Talon. Worldbreaker was crushed and Horus' clone impaled by Abaddon. In its dying moments, the clone of Horus remembered who Abaddon was and acknowledged him as his son.

[tulip sand]

Interesting

[storm jungle]

Bile was just being a lil troll

he didnt mean to harm anyone

i swear

[tulip sand]

And so these chaos space marines live for a long ass time compared to loyalist marines, however i believe in a war of attrition they would lose because they cant replenish their ranks rifht

Since abbadon was in 30k

Dabadon

[storm jungle]

They can replenish

[celest dome]

They can replenish

[rustic spruce]

where did bile even get the stuff to clone horus, if horus got atomized

[celest dome]

But much slower

[winter vessel]

Abbadon, any time that guy is about to be defeated, he just whisks back way into the warp saying "Black Legion's blasting off again"

[tulip sand]

Do they have the gene seeds?

[storm jungle]

Look, hes a super scientist, stop asking questions

[tulip sand]

Gotta blast!

[celest dome]

Yes

[storm jungle]

New chaos marines get made the same way loyalists do

just uh

you know

[naive oyster]

They have some insidious ways of replenishing their numbers... a certain Iron Warrior War Smith figured it out...

[storm jungle]

super fucking horifically

[storm jungle]

Shut up lmao

[rustic spruce]

daemonculaba babyyyyy

[winter vessel]

^cough Damonculaba

[storm jungle]

god

[tulip sand]

Ah so they do replenish just fine

[storm jungle]

yeee

its literally just the loyalist method

but more hellraiser

[arctic talon]

^

[storm jungle]

and uh you know no consent

[final spruce]

Cloning

[arctic talon]

And more unsanitary

[tulip sand]

I always thought that killing chaos space marines were a big thing bc they didnt have many reinforcements

[storm jungle]

Nah thats false yeah

[arctic talon]

Nah

[ashen shoal]

They also just use loyalist geneseed, like Honsou uses imperial fists geneseed

[rustic spruce]

is gene seed the combined organs of a space marines, or something more specific

[storm jungle]

The only issue is the same thing loyalist marines who arent that popular face.

Which is if you don't got enough connections or forces tough shit trying to find more geneseed for new marines

[mossy mortar]

Witchfinder drip

[tulip sand]

I think its like jango fett for the clones

[storm jungle]

yeee more or less

again just more surgery-gore

[arctic talon]

The world eaters are really good at making new marines and have some of the best apothecaries

Which is funny as hell to think about

[storm jungle]

Yeah man just shove that chainsaw into my guts

[mossy mortar]

Nobody knows how many are hiding out in the eye

[tulip sand]

Do they also have primaris

[storm jungle]

Nope

[rustic spruce]

the primaris was a loyalist program

[naive oyster]

Considering what the WE Apothecaries had to put up with, they def had to be good at their job

[arctic talon]

No, but abbadon wants bile to make chaos primaris lol

[tulip sand]

I thought he didnt like bile bc cloning

[arctic talon]

Bile however thinks primaris are boring

And thinks that Cawl didn’t do enough

[storm jungle]

As per the new chaos codex that got released like a month ago Bile has his hand on both Custodes and Primaris

so he will do some messing around

[tulip sand]

https://tenor.com/view/doyobug-mind-gif-21088087

Primaris 2

[arctic talon]

Yeah bile is having the time of his life rn with custodes and primaris bits

[naive oyster]

Bile's Nu Men project has been going on for some time as well

[storm jungle]

It was said but the new codex basically confirms it that it has happened

[tulip sand]

So they will get their own primaris versions

Interesting

[arctic talon]

Prolly not

[storm jungle]

yeah it would be weird from a tabletop standpoint

[arctic talon]

No point to chaos primaris when csm legionaries are already arguably better from a tabletop standpoint

[mossy mortar]

They might get some weird special models though

[storm jungle]

YEP

[arctic talon]

Yeah I’m expecting some weird flesh abominations from bile

[storm jungle]

also tabletop minis come first before lore

[tulip sand]

Also since cawl has to jump through a ton of hoops to innovate and get new tech out, eventually he will lose the arms race to bile right

[mossy mortar]

No

[winter vessel]

Are the minis for Primaris a little taller than the Firstborn gen?

[arctic talon]

Bile has to deal with the fact he’s in the eye of terror lol

[mossy mortar]

Because Cawl has Mary Sue plot armor

[arctic talon]

And yes primaris are taller

[mossy mortar]

Whereas Bile is a jobber

[rustic spruce]

bile has to deal with the fact that abaddon fucking hates him

[tulip sand]

Wouldnt bile be under the protection of the chaos gods tho

[mossy mortar]

Everybody hates him

[tulip sand]

Or something

[arctic talon]

Slaanesh and that’s it lol

[mossy mortar]

Nobody likes Bile because he keeps stealing

[arctic talon]

Bile is alive due to csm political reasons, he’s too valuable to kill but too hated to be essential

[mossy mortar]

And making big promises then fucking them up

[arctic talon]

Or just lying lol

[rustic spruce]

we got that new mechanical daemon dude, who feels like an analog to cawl

[tulip sand]

Speaking of slanesg and this is kind of off topic, since people spend generations in line waiting to get in to see the emperor, how would they reproduce

[mossy mortar]

Dude is basically a big tech scammer that nobody can quite get rid of

[tulip sand]

Just like turn to the person behind them

[arctic talon]

The guy is an arms dealer demigod nothing like Cawl

[tulip sand]

Whats his name

[arctic talon]

Vashtor the arkifane

[tulip sand]

Did the lore always move this fast or no bc as a newer fan im hella confused

[mossy mortar]

There's probably a whole culture and system for holding your place in line

Possibly running for generations

[arctic talon]

The lore literally didn’t progress at all between 5th and 7th edition lul

[mossy mortar]

I mean they still have to eat and go to the bathroom

[arctic talon]

But GW wants a more alive setting now

[tulip sand]

Designated shitting street

[mossy mortar]

No and a lot of the old heads hate it

[rustic spruce]

the lore's a lot like star wars, 98% is in the past and it barely moves forward

[mossy mortar]

I know a lot of people who hated indomintus and gave up after

[arctic talon]

Eh not like lore didn’t progress pre 5th

[tulip sand]

Really?

I thought people would like that its moving

[arctic talon]

There was plot progression during 3rd and 4th edition

[mossy mortar]

Nah they changed a LOT

[arctic talon]

5th 6th and 7th were stagnant

[mossy mortar]

And noy much of it for the better

[tulip sand]

I guess people didnt like that it got worse for the imperium

[arctic talon]

Citrix Malidictum is cool

[tulip sand]

I like that mr rob is leading the imperium now

[arctic talon]

Also the imperium lost pretty much every major warzone book so far

[mossy mortar]

Nah they don't like the new characters that seem poorly written

[arctic talon]

Cawl isn’t even badly written now

[tulip sand]

Like in the new lore you mean

[arctic talon]

Yes

[mossy mortar]

They've always lost that's normal

[rich sail]

cawl is fine

[crisp heath]

Wait, the Omnissiah is an entirely separate being of worship? I thought it was a synonym for the Emperor.

[arctic talon]

Cawl started out bad but he’s got fine lore now

[arctic talon]

Politically it’s supposed to be the emperor the actual truth is complicated

[tulip sand]

Cawl actuallt does research right

[arctic talon]

I mean most tech priests do research

[tulip sand]

Isnt that heresy

[arctic talon]

No

[tulip sand]

Oh

[crisp heath]

Heresy if the normies do it

[arctic talon]

Or else how the hell do you think people decipher STC’s

[ashen shoal]

Research isn't just about innovation, it's also about understanding

[arctic talon]

^if you’re an ordained tech priest research is fine

[tulip sand]

Well thats not research its just discovery

Not innovation

[crisp heath]

What’s the truth then

[rich sail]

considering the new chaos god they dropped they probably gonna focus on the dark mechanicum

[tulip sand]

Mb i meant innovation not just research

Bruh WHAT theres 5 gods now

[arctic talon]

The emperor is the omnissiah for political reasons but the actual being that is the omnissiah is long lost

[arctic talon]

There’s always been more then 4 just not major gods

[tulip sand]

Ye i know that

[mossy mortar]

No the omnissiah is a prophesied being

[arctic talon]

And the new guy isn’t a major god either lol

[mossy mortar]

It's literally the messiah

[ashen shoal]

UR-025 seems to confirm that the omnissiah in terms of being a machine god, is not the emperor

[tulip sand]

But theres a significant power gap between the 4 and the rest eight

[rich sail]

yes theres a neutral 5th chaos god that is like the chaos gods of inventions and progress and like a smith making weapons and armor for all the other chaos gods

[tulip sand]

Right*

[arctic talon]

He’s not even close to a full chaos god

[mossy mortar]

See like the jews waiting for messiah

That's the parallel

[tulip sand]

Interesting

So both sides are now researching new stuff

[arctic talon]

The omnissiah already exists according to the last man of iron we know of tbf

Also innovation in the mechanicus happens it’s just at a super slow rate

[mossy mortar]

The emperor shows up and fulfills a bunch of prophesies and implies he is messiah

[ashen shoal]

What is the source of this, I don't see anything on Lexicanum?

[tulip sand]

That lexicanum site is diahrrea on mobile

[arctic talon]

Vashtor the arkifane is a demigod

[tulip sand]

Never have I seen such advertisementd

[arctic talon]

That’s all we really know lol

[mossy mortar]

Use adblocker

[rich sail]

ye vashtor or whatever couldnt remember his name

seems to be tied to the dark mechanicum

[arctic talon]

He doesn’t have much lore yet because he’s new

[rich sail]

so i guess they gonna retcon that the ctan shard is inside mars and controlls the admech pretending to be their omnissiah ?

[arctic talon]

Never been canon

In the first place

[mossy mortar]

They even made up their own Mechanicus trinity in some of the books

[arctic talon]

All we know is the dragon of mars is an extremely old entity inside the noctis labyrinth

[mossy mortar]

The Machine God, the Omnissiah, and the Motive Force

[ashen shoal]

Yeah they've never actually confirmed anything, it's all just heavily suggested

[tulip sand]

Ohh the new god makes space hulks

[queen wing]

So, do servo skulls have brains/consciousness like servitors?

[mossy mortar]

No usually not

[ashen shoal]

Some do seem to retain elements of the original skull owner's personality though

[mossy mortar]

They're just skulls for aesthetic reasons

[queen wing]

Well I know they're skulls of loyal servants etc

But that makes sense

So I suppose the next question would be

[mossy mortar]

There might be some animistic thing too

[queen wing]

Are they actually "AI?"

Even though that's outlawed

[arctic talon]

Not an abominable intelligence

[mossy mortar]

You meam Abominable Intelligence?

[ashen shoal]

Like Gorgias from "The Carrion Throne" seems to ahve far too much personality to be a regular servo skull

[mossy mortar]

Or it's entirely imagined

[noble hinge]

Only in dune AI are banned

[queen wing]

Hmm

[mossy mortar]

You don't need that much intelligence to have personality

[arctic talon]

I mean abominable intelligence != to irl ai

[mossy mortar]

Mice have personality and they have brain size of a small peanut

[queen wing]

I know the imperium is big on hypocrisy so I figured there's a chance they're just normal AI

[mossy mortar]

What is normal AI

Likw even irl defining AI is like an entire book

[dusk patrol]

So Abominable Intelligence like Elite just said isn’t the same as AI

Not as we think of it

[noble hinge]

i like this AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsXw-wIpiJM

logical ai

[mossy mortar]

If by AI you mean my TV whoch supposedly has "AI" then no

[ashen shoal]

probably the difference between them being full blown comparable to living human AI's like in Halo, vs just being like an amazon alexa or smth

[crisp heath]

Are there any systems of accountability for tech priests in the Imperium? I imagine that having a group of people who are privy to the technology that governs the imperium to be a large security risk.

[dusk patrol]

I think the Halo distinction of dumb vs smart AI is a good one

[dusk patrol]

Eachother

[mossy mortar]

Other tech priests, the other adeptus terra, and the inquisition

[dusk patrol]

The Inquisition

Other factions in the Imperium in general

[queen wing]

Lol

Servo skull alexas

[mossy mortar]

The Mechanicus is another giant galactic bureaucracy

So naturally it's extremely resistant to change

[ashen shoal]

Honestly the inherent ambition of other techpriests serves as a pretty good control measure. It's hard to become some sort of huge traitor when most of your coworkers will instantly sell you out the moment they find something to get promoted

[queen wing]

Hard to justify trying to instill change when it'll most likely get you executed

[dusk patrol]

The Inquisition technically is only beholden to itself and the Throne, but it still gets challenged by plenty of other sources

Including itself

[ashen shoal]

Or custodes

[mossy mortar]

Yeah they have unlimited power... But basically no formalized power

[ashen shoal]

good luck telling the 10 foot tall superhuman what to do

[queen wing]

We know space marine chapters infight all the time, do other factions of the imperium do as well?

[mossy mortar]

Constantly

Endlessly

[dusk patrol]

Well technically they don’t answer to Custodes, it’s just Custodes claim the same source of power, the throne itself. And they have a lot better guns.

[mossy mortar]

It's the most dysfunctional bureaucracy in history

[rich sail]

they have authority over the admech in theory only in practice no inquisitor will ever go to acuse a magos or anything

[minor lance]

@arctic talon Wait, you play PS2?

[ashen shoal]

Arguable Custodes have even better authority as they can receive direct visions from the emperor himself and are around him 24/7

[mossy mortar]

Well, they can whisper into the ear of an old friend

[minor lance]

Oops wrong chat. eh bugger it

[dusk patrol]

They will, it’s just they’re careful about it

@ashen shoal definitely but the point is when push comes to shove, they both claim the same source, and it then comes down to a game of chicken basically

And Custodes are good at not blinking

[mossy mortar]

The Custodes rarely interfere though

[crisp heath]

Gotta lov ebureaucracy

[mossy mortar]

Culturally they're not interested

[ashen shoal]

when you have access to the best weapons of the imperium, it's hard to be outgunned as a custodes lol

[hearty bluff]

What do you mean you want civil rights?. That's heresy and sentence is death.

[dusk patrol]

you really have to have fucked up to earn their personal ire and attention

[ashen shoal]

Banana boys are my favorite faction

[dusk patrol]

I enjoy them a lot, it helps they mostly have all good books.

[mossy mortar]

You'd have to couch it in the right wording
Like say giving more rights to certain mid ranking adepts which gives a black eye to their rivals

[hearty bluff]

Lol

[arctic talon]

Wdym ps2

[ashen shoal]

yeah Chris Wright has been a blessing to the Custodes

[dusk patrol]

Custodes for me are proof that a faction of Mary sues can work if you have a good enough writer

[ashen shoal]

Although Aleya has really endeared me to the sisters of silence too

[mossy mortar]

Honestly the whole concept of 40k is it's all mary sues lol

[winter vessel]

How about the blue Smurfs?

[dusk patrol]

That’s also true

[mossy mortar]

Every army is lole the baddest most elite deadly faction in the entire galaxy

[ashen shoal]

Valerian and Aleya have the most wholesome friendship in thos novels

[dusk patrol]

Smurfs have a shitton of great characters and novels

[mossy mortar]

And if x, y, and z align they will conquer the entire universe

[dusk patrol]

The Calgar comic is one of my favorite 40k media ever released

[arctic talon]

Dark eldar just wana “party”

[mossy mortar]

Dark Eldar think they already won

[rich sail]

won what lol they just delay the inevitable

[hearty bluff]

If anyone's having the best time it's probably the orks.

[mossy mortar]

Or rather, they're cheating

And think they can cheat forever

[rich sail]

truest words

[mossy mortar]

And don't care what happens after

[winter vessel]

I love the subtle reference in the WH TTS series on how Calgar is somewhat aware an outside force has made the chapter nearly invincible in the 40k Universe. *cough Matt Ward.

[dusk patrol]

Do not reference TTS in this sacred place

It belongs in no lore thread ever

[ashen shoal]

Honestly even the more Gary Stu characters like Cato have been toned down in the recent years, like Cato post his little warp mishap is actually pretty likeable now

[winter vessel]

*evil laughter

But the Smurfs sit at an 8/10 for me, The Salamanders and Lamenters at 9/10 and Crimson Fists a 10/10.

[rich sail]

i hope they add orc incursions or something in darktide have orcs spawn and beat the shit out of both you and the nurgle cultists

[dusk patrol]

The issue with the term Mary Sue too is like, it’s so vague and hard to pin down

[ashen shoal]

I'd expect genestealers to come before orks

[dusk patrol]

And no two people have the same definition

[light parrot]

Has the Emperor spoken after being put on the Golden Throne?

[rich sail]

spoke to papa smurf

[ashen shoal]

he sends visions, does that count?

[mossy mortar]

I mean, if the term fits then it fits