40k-lore-chat

[celest dome]

If you're part of the Retinue you're an Acolyte

[dusk patrol]

Not always

[sweet trail]

^

[celest dome]

A SM can be an Acolyte

[dusk patrol]

They’re not an acolyte, an acolyte implies a lot of things

But they’re in the retinue

[sweet trail]

If you're in the personal retinue of an inquisitor rather than just one of their associates you are most likely an acolyte or just an acolyte without being called an acolyte.

[dusk patrol]

Effectively sure but there’s a difference

[sweet trail]

Either way a mechanicus member with close ties to an inquisitor is going to earn a decent bit of ire from the mechanicus as the mechanicus and inquisition have differing opinions on matters of privacy.

[dusk patrol]

Not necessarily

It just depends on the Mechanicus person, like at the end of the day it can be a place of honor

The Ad Mech isn’t a monolith

They disagreed on basically everything

Some are isolationist as hell

Some aren’t

[sweet trail]

Well the mechanicus being a cult and rather close minded are going to view an individual interacting with an organisation that likes to meddle in other organisations affairs is going to (generally) distrust/dislike the person

[celest dome]

They are part of the Acolyte list iirc

[sweet trail]

Of course there will be some individuals who respect such a course of action

[barren tapir]

TBH there are many tech priests that have inquisitors as friends, such relations are never of one superior to the other though, always on the same level, which make sense since inquisitors have not really much authority over mechanicus people and vice versa

[sweet trail]

Yeah

[dusk patrol]

It’s just not how it’s been shown to function

It can be that way

Sure

But it’s not like, the default

It, like all things 40k, depends

[celest dome]

The Admech is mostly indepentent groups

[dusk patrol]

What Forge World?

Whose the Inquisitor?

What have they done?

[celest dome]

More closer to the Inquisition to the Imperial Cult

[dusk patrol]

Whose the priest?

And so on

[sweet trail]

We are slightly generalising.

[dusk patrol]

I mean it’s how 40k is

[celest dome]

Same with Skitarii, certain are more valued, sentient and so on depending on the FW/Techpriest

[dusk patrol]

There’s not really a standard

Intentionally

It varies a lot

Forge Worlds vary wildly

And within those worlds the factions within vary wildly

And within those factions the individuals are different

The Ad Mech would probably love an Inquisitor with good history with them

Like say one who saved a forge world form destruction

[celest dome]

Same way with Rogue Traders

[sweet trail]

but my point being is that if a tech priest subordinates themselves to or intergrates themselves into the hierarchy of the inquisition they will garner less favourable treatment from most mechanicus elements (at least initially.) as they'll be treated as somewhat of an outsider and a greater deal of caution compared to if they were just a tech priest.

Such as becoming an acolyte.

[dusk patrol]

And I’m saying it’s all politics

It depends on a lot of things

It could go that way

Or it could make him have an elevated position within his faction

[celest dome]

Well yes, most likely, but sometime they would be sent to the Inquisition by their superiors

[sweet trail]

This is true.

that is if your superiors don't like you

or they like the inquisitor in quesiton

Those are generally the two situations you get sent there.

[celest dome]

Or if they like the Inquisitor

[sweet trail]

Yes.

[celest dome]

Or if they want a spy in it

[sweet trail]

Well that counts as liking the inquisitor.

[celest dome]

Or if they think the Inquisitor might find some nice Archetotech

And so on

[sweet trail]

That also counts as liking the inquisitor.

[celest dome]

No it doesn't

[dusk patrol]

It’s using the Inquisitor more so

[sweet trail]

The liking being in italics.

[celest dome]

Just because someone work for you not because you force them doesn't mean they like you

Or anything of the sort

[dusk patrol]

I feel like we’re kinda going in circles but my point is you’re asking for more certainty than there really is in the setting, the point of a lot of this stuff is it is what you make it

It’s built to be open ended and variable

[sweet trail]

To slightly clarify a slight misunderstanding. The liking (note how it is in italics.) was slightly sarcastic and more a reference to taking interest in the individual in question rather than actually liking them. Hence my using it in reference to spying on them and also for wanting the stuff they find.

[celest dome]

Like even the Inquisitors are very varied in how they approach other people (And there are Tech Adept Inquisitor)

[sweet trail]

This is true.

But anyway, I will now attempt to smoothly slide into the main part of this bit that I may be doing.

Since the mechanicus can technically commit crimes and there have been multiple instances of mechanicus members working within or along side the inquisition. Clearly they should add a tech adept/priest class.

[barren tapir]

Oh god, not the inquisitor martyr crap lol

[celest dome]

Wasn't retconed or anything

[sweet trail]

There is I believe an instance of it happening in lore

as opposed to in the game.

I'd have to go on a deep dive to find the person though

[dusk patrol]

The other art example you’re thinking is probably a fanfic

For a YouTuber

[sweet trail]

No not that one.

[celest dome]

Remiel or something

[dusk patrol]

But there’s no reason it couldn’t happen regardless in lore

It would be uncommon

[barren tapir]

There wasn't nothing to retconnect, since it never happened

[sweet trail]

I mean an actual one, I believe they got shot or something.

[dusk patrol]

But it could happen regardless

[sweet trail]

It is entirely able to happen

[celest dome]

Tech Priest wouldn't fit

Reject archetype could be Tech Menial/Adept
With class/end goal being Reclaimator, Skitarii or other stuff of the sort

[sweet trail]

just like how there is a mechanicus man (THE FABIRCATOR GENERAL OF MARS, blessed be his holy station.) as a high lord.

I think if you picked one of the non combat oriented tech priest archetypes it could work

[barren tapir]

It is hugely different

[dusk patrol]

I think it’s best just to say that an Ad Mech archetype is very possible and leave it at that

And not get bogged down by this conversation again

[celest dome]

That doesn't mean anything, the Inquisition is independent from the High Lord

[dusk patrol]

Because gonna be honest it’s so boring

[barren tapir]

The Ad. Mech. has its own internal "inquisition" and they are not linked in anyway to the imperial one

[dusk patrol]

Yes and none of that stops an Inquisitor from requesting Ad Mech rejects

We’ve been over this a million times

[celest dome]

Doesn't mean that some Admech people join the regular Inqui

[rustic spruce]

what caused the men of iron rebellion

[dusk patrol]

I should just make a PDF of this

[celest dome]

Warp stuff

[dusk patrol]

Unclear

Probably the normal AI rebellion stuff

[barren tapir]

None do, doing so would be being declared an heretek, you can ally with it, but joining it is a different thing...

[celest dome]

Or maybe ask Historitor to have something about that

[dusk patrol]

I think it’s implied it wasn’t just one thing

And some of the Men of Iron fought against one another

But it’s all murky

Intentionally

[dusk patrol]

It’s amazing you speak with such confidence when you have such a lack of understanding of the lore

[sweet trail]

I'm listing an example of how a member of the mechanicus has manoeuvred into the imperial hierarchy, specifically the very top of it, as a point of "If this man can attain the highest position of imperial authority despite technically being apart of a completely different system of government then a tech priest can probably wind up as an inquisitor. Though questions of loyalty may arise."

[dusk patrol]

Like, it’s really annoying actually

It’s such a dead horse argument that’s been done over and over too

[celest dome]

According to Dark Herey - Ascension, page 29, a Techpriest can't become an Inquisitor or a Ministorum Priest because their loyalty to the Omnissiah and to the Quest for Knowledge is too absolute and all-encompassing to allow any competing loyalty or consideration.

But nothing talk about lower rung who developed in the Inquisition

[barren tapir]

I don't lack understanding of the lore lol, i know it quite well, that is from where the confidence come btw

[dusk patrol]

Okay bud

Like I said, dead horse argument that’s boring

[barren tapir]

Well, i thought we were talking about tech priests, not menials

[dusk patrol]

Yes a Ad Mech Archetype could work fine

[full bane]

The Ordo Machinum however does work very closely with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the Collegiate Exteremis in turn works closely with the Inquisition.

[barren tapir]

Indeed, never argued against that

[celest dome]

Well that's your fault, be more humble

[sweet trail]

Technically a techpriest with a slightly aberrant view could theoretically become an inquisitor.

[celest dome]

The Ordo Machinum doesn't like the Admech

Not really

[full bane]

I never said they like each other.

[celest dome]

Not by still being a Tech PRiest/Magos

[full bane]

But they work closely and there's cross pollination of staff members.

[dusk patrol]

No Ordo is a monolith really anyways or most aren’t

[sweet trail]

Well course he wouldn't still be a magos but he would have at one point been a magos.

[dusk patrol]

Not many people like the Inquisition

[barren tapir]

Never said they don't cooperate, i said they aren't linked to each other... Also, the ordo machinum is more to overseer the Mechanicus than cooperate with them...

[celest dome]

Would kind of be like saying that the Ordo hereticus work closely with heretics

[sweet trail]

Lmao

[dusk patrol]

I mean they do tbh

[full bane]

As for the Inquisitor Martyr archetype, I'm pretty sure it was stated that they weren't an ordained Tech-Priest, just one raised/trained within the general constructs of the Hive World/AdMech holdings.

Hence them being a Tech Adept.

[barren tapir]

Not my fault when people use tech priest inquisitors as term, and yes, i'm quite humble... More so than many here... Not you btw, you are a very nice chap to talk to

[dusk patrol]

It’s their job to get close

[sweet trail]

Technically some of them do.

My messages are lagging for some reason.

[dusk patrol]

It’s just discord

[sweet trail]

The issue seems to have resolved itself.

[dusk patrol]

And I’m gonna hold the same opinion of anyone who tries to claim an Ad Mech archetype like tech adept or whatever couldn’t work fine for the game.

It’s fine if people wouldnt prefer that but acting like it’s not perfectly lore friendly is silly.

And it’s a really boring argument that’s been done to death

[sweet trail]

"We here at the ordo mallius pride ourselves on working closely with daemons." Ordo mallius inquisitor shortly before being shot by his peers for spouting nonsense whilst pointing to a daemon in a box.

[barren tapir]

It all started with one person saying that a tech adept archetype wouldn't work?

[full bane]

There's a pretty big difference between the Ordos that are meant to root out something and those that are meant to supervise and scrutinize internal organizations of the Imperium to be fair.

[sweet trail]

I started this conversation by saying it would be cool.

Because I think it would be

[barren tapir]

It would be great i think

[dusk patrol]

People say a bunch of different stuff but the point is someone brings it up

[sweet trail]

You could give them like a servo skull instead of a grenade and have them be able top tell it to go spot things or pick things up or open doors.

[dusk patrol]

Like Change

[sweet trail]

Or you could make them a support character.

have them buff weapon damage or their alt give people infinite ammo for a bit.

[dusk patrol]

Which is fine, and then someone has to come try to piss in their cheerios and pretend it couldn’t happen in lore

And then we do the really boring song and dance of “uh ACkshually the Ad Mech has their own internal inquisition like organization” which means nothing to do with the Inquisitor requesting rejects from the Ad Mech.

[sweet trail]

Could even give them a little turret (but that would be pushing it.) or stick a pistol on the servo skull and have it be able to fly about and shoot people before inevitably getting domed by a sniper and the tech man having to run over and go pick it up and fix it.

[barren tapir]

Having it buff weapon damage, both ranged and melee seems a nice ability. that maybe can be tweaked by feats to be more ranged with ammo regen, or melee with faster swing speed

[sweet trail]

Or could give them some kind of low tier genetor style thing going on and have them have some healing/pseudo healing abilities.

[celest dome]

Summoner in tide game isn't something I'd like to see

[dusk patrol]

And then someone goes “well what would the class even be” and now we shift to I have to make up a whole three classes to justify this archetype idea and it’s just super boring and lame so I just kinda give the same response to anyone who says it’s not like friendly at this point.

[sweet trail]

Fair enough

The ability to place down cover might be nice

[dusk patrol]

I think at most we might see a servo skull ability

[full bane]

A ballistic mechandendrite that shoots tagged enemies would be cool and fitting.

[dusk patrol]

Not sure what it would do

But you know, something

Scan enemies or whatever

[sweet trail]

That'd be very similar to the servo skull but would probably work better as you wouldn't have to justify it not getting shot to death

[barren tapir]

Passive: tagged enemies take more damage

[sweet trail]

A skull that tags people and picks up items you tag could be nice

[dusk patrol]

But I also don’t think that’s likely just because it requires AI to interact and that fucks stuff up

But who knows

[sweet trail]

maybe a later tier perk lets it shoot at tagged enemies whilst hovering next to you could also be cool.

[dusk patrol]

An Ad Mech archetype has a shitton of potential

[sweet trail]

Yeah.

It'd be really great support

[barren tapir]

Servo skull also tell you if you have enemies behind

[sweet trail]

as they have a lot of ways to buff and interact with weapons.

[sweet trail]

Godly.

[barren tapir]

Those backstabber are done for

[sweet trail]

That would be amazing.

Could have it be able to open and close doors

set it up so giving it commands replaced your grenade ability

[barren tapir]

It just say "threat neraby bzzz" when enemies are near, so if you don't see anything in front you know it is behind

[ruby sparrow]

My knowledge of 40k lore is limited

[sweet trail]

Have their super and passive perks or be focused around buffing weapons or increasing reload speed or something along those lines

Make sharpshooter ascendant by tagging something then giving him lots of bullets.

and applying a damage but by tagging it.

Which would make sense from a lore perspective.

[dusk patrol]

I just really want an Omnissiah Axe in the game as a weapon option

[sweet trail]

As the servo skull would be able to assist in targeting.

[sweet trail]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[barren tapir]

Such archetype would probably make me buy the game, it would give me something nice

[sweet trail]

I'm just a massive mechanicus fan and hate the fact that no first or third person games have features anything mechanicus related and playable.

[full bane]

Special Perk: Fixing data-interrogators is easier.

Gotta use that integrated multi-tool

[barren tapir]

Same, a game where i could play a skitarii would be amazing

[barren tapir]

You can restore them from distance and their speed in hacking is increased if you are nearby

[sweet trail]

If there was a suggestions channel or anything like that I'd stick such a thing in there because I am already dying to see it be a thing the moment the metal lady started calling us inept for not being able to use a servo skull properly.

[barren tapir]

Hadron is bae i think

[sweet trail]

She is yes.

[dusk patrol]

They know

Trust me

[barren tapir]

Although, tbh, there are lots of nice NPC

[dusk patrol]

It’s by far the most suggested thing

If they’re gonna do it

[sweet trail]

Good-good.

[dusk patrol]

They’ll do it

If they aren’t, nothing is gonna change it

[sweet trail]

I look forwards to it if they do do it.

[dusk patrol]

They’re very aware

[full bane]

Hedge probably watches the same eight conversations on an AdMech archetype circle through the discord each day.

[barren tapir]

Time to start our cult of Hadron i think

[sweet trail]

YESSSSSSSSSS

I think we've slightly derailed the conversation

Or well channel

Though I guess this is still a 40k lore chat

As it is discussing the potential abilities a mechanicus person would possess if present in the gang of convicts.

The greatest of which being getting verbally abused by Hadron for not fixing the servo skull fast enough as you're a member of the mechanicum and should know better.

[storm jungle]

Really wish it was a banned topic at this point

[sweet trail]

My apologies for bringing it up.

But the mechanicus are cool.

and I like talking about them.

[storm jungle]

Its fine.

I have just seen it for the last 2 years. No real way of stopping it so go ahead

[celest dome]

We could talk about other possible Archetypes

[fair current]

Arbites possibly?

[sweet trail]

That would be a CQC style of sharp shooter or the likes?

It might run the risk of stepping on the toes of ogryn

But that might work

Shock maul weapons or the likes could be interesting.

Be like mini ogryn.

Clearly the supreme suggestion. Commissar. Immune to corruption caused by sources other than getting downed and has a bunch of buffs that reduce pinning and restore toughness.

Though I can find no reason why a commissar would be a convict.

Or well a good commisar.

So I'm leaning on it not working.

[fair current]

Commissar or Sergeant

Would probably work

[copper cliff]

Do Sisters of Battle have any sort of enhancements space marine style or are they just power armor and bolters?

[sweet trail]

They are I believe slightly tampered with

[copper cliff]

And holy magic of course

[celest dome]

Usually nothing at all

[sweet trail]

Magic is heresy.

I believe the new models from GW show them having weird ports on their skin which wasn't present in earlier versions

[celest dome]

Some soB don't even have Power Armour in their organisation

Older model had them. New one don't iirc

[sweet trail]

Those wouldn't be battle sister orders though.

They'd be stuff like the order hospitaler or whatever it is called

and the order famulious?

[celest dome]

They still are

[copper cliff]

Sisters of Bolter

[sweet trail]

They're part of the ecclesiarchy but not a militant branch of it.

[celest dome]

Just minor orders that don't have as much money/ means

[plush mason]

lol

[proud plinth]

can someone tell me what the 73.7 tattoo stands for? also seen it on the ship in the beginning of the game

[plush mason]

given that ship is a prison ship i think its an identifying tag showing we are a prisoner

[proud plinth]

oh, i thought it's maybe something related to the codex or so

[dusk patrol]

Might be a regiment number

[minor lance]

Truly the based imperium army choice

[vivid dust]

they really just purged the chat jesus, talk about overreacting

[crisp heath]

Game has one little server error and boom, everyone goes bonkers

[arctic talon]

Don't bring it here

[minor lance]

This is not the place for that,

[storm jungle]

Enough.

[arctic talon]

Hospitaler is one of the more like

major ones as well

There's def way smaller ones

[sweet trail]

Yep.

But my point being is that all of the "Battle sisters." are believe it or not battle sisters.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

there's a ton who just do stuff like

teach people

[sweet trail]

Yep.

Preach and what not.

[arctic talon]

or other sorts of things

yeah

[sweet trail]

Infiltrate improperly integrated planets noble houses to go make people religious

and so on

[arctic talon]

Famulous

lul

[sweet trail]

Yep.

[crisp heath]

Your average religious doctrine

[arctic talon]

yeah

there's also just like scribes and such

[iron cave]

Thank you so much!

[proud plinth]

surely there is someone knowing the answer for sure, right? :D

[arctic talon]

I don't think there's any like

hard lore lol

[crisp heath]

no solid explanation

[arctic talon]

I'm pretty sure its just the prison ships idenitfier

[crisp heath]

might be regiment number, any sort of ID that shows you were a prisioner from X ship, whatever

[minor lance]

The the radio frequency for a poprock station one of the devs enjoyed listening to on his way to work, but the station got canned during covid.

This is a blatant fabrication, but it sounds believable

[proud plinth]

xD Alright, thanks guys <3

[crisp heath]

Think of them as Batman Nuns

[arctic talon]

Also the purple banners and stuff are the water guild stuff

most likely

[crisp heath]

Their superpower is money, and dedication

[copper cliff]

How bout you fabricate some personality. 🫵 😎

[arctic talon]

also some sisters of battle do get like

Bionics

due to injuries

[crisp heath]

Bionics = $

Their only super power is faith

heretic

Power Armor & Bolters = $

[copper cliff]

Im mostly just wondering is if SoB are physically stronger than average peeps

Out of power armor

[sweet trail]

Anarchy, chaos even, in the general channel at the current. What are we currently discussing in here?

[minor lance]

I tried, and now I'm a skiitarii.

It went poorly.

[crisp heath]

Pretty sure they are

They may have some level of magic going on from Big E, thus the saints.

[arctic talon]

Yes, due to just training most of the time

[crisp heath]

But not much more than anyone else, just a little bit more

[sweet trail]

Most assuridly there is something going on with saints

[arctic talon]

SoBs and Scions are

[full bane]

Training regiment would lead to that yeah.

[arctic talon]

peak human

[sweet trail]

if not tied to the emperor then to the collective belief of humanity

[arctic talon]

They train all the time

[full bane]

At least compared to the average schmuck.

[copper cliff]

What about vs a guardsman?

[sweet trail]

it has been noted that humans possess a lesser version of the orks ability to believe things into reality via the warp.

[arctic talon]

more physically fit on average

[crisp heath]

They're much better trained than the Guard

[sweet trail]

Hence well you know daemons and chaos and what not.

[arctic talon]

the average guardsmen is gona be a lot weaker then any schola graduate

[copper cliff]

But can sob mommy lift me up, go high high! WEEE!

[arctic talon]

mostly due to how excessively brutal

[sweet trail]

so even if big E isn't doing the magic people believe in him enough for him to be doing the magic regardless of if he wants ot.

[arctic talon]

the schola progenium is

[crisp heath]

But a Guard Vet is probably superior to a rookie SoB/Scion from the Schola by virtue of survival

[arctic talon]

yeah

[crisp heath]

I'd take Sly Marbo every day

[arctic talon]

that also

But if you compare a fresh out of training Guardsmen to a freshout of the schola sister of battle or scion

my bet is on the schola graduate

[full bane]

They're probably better with their Power Armour than most other non organised individuals that might use them, given the minis have what look like MIU ports on them.

[copper cliff]

Veteran in Darktide:
😎
🟡
🦵

[crisp heath]

realistically speaking any guardsmen that has survived more than 1 hour in a battlefield is a veteran

Depends on the battlefield

Vraks? Yes

Hive Tertium on Atoma Prime? Relatively stagnant conflict so far

[arctic talon]

^

Tertium is

A really chill place tbh

[copper cliff]

Yeah they got Lemun Russ' what they lack in range they make up for with firepower

[crisp heath]

"This is the front line for Tertium."

• 2 Leman Russ and a few rifle squads staring into the distance, no gunfire

[arctic talon]

Demolisher cannons

[crisp heath]

I love that they're demolisher variants tbh

[arctic talon]

Are overkill

Lol

[crisp heath]

You'd want howitzers like them though

[crisp heath]

Interesting

[arctic talon]

Yeah it’s

Not that bad all things considered

Still a terrible place to be in

But you aren’t gona get your brains splattered if you peak your head out of cover

[crisp heath]

Like there's more fighting going on at Fort Brachsenbrucke in Vermintide than Tertium

[arctic talon]

Lol

Tertium has pretty clearly defined like

Battle lines

[full bane]

It's actually got two competent forces facing off.

[arctic talon]

That neither side wants to push

[crisp heath]

Like if I'd change anything there should definitely be a lot of fighting in these initial sequences

Y'know you're crossing the bridge and you see lasfire and cannons lighting up both sides

Lots of vistas without mass violence going on in them

[arctic talon]

Honestly the Moebian 6th thankfully like

Lacks heavy armor

Mostly due to the fact they weren’t an armored division

If they had tanks it would be a lot more rough for the inquisition forces

And other Moebian regiments

[crisp heath]

Don't give the devs any ideas

[arctic talon]

Lol

[crisp heath]

Smashes Leman Russ with a chainaxe

[celest dome]

Aren't there Tanks in the Hive ?

[full bane]

Though given the tight confines of Tertium that's not entirely a massive weakness.

[arctic talon]

They’re inquisition tanks

Or moebian armored division tanks

Not the Moebian 6th’s

[celest dome]

No i mean Atoma produce tanks

[crisp heath]

Tanks were probably all over the upper hive

[full bane]

Now then, when do we get the mission to place det charges in a Moebian garage.

[arctic talon]

Yes but like

[crisp heath]

But the upper hive remained loyal

[arctic talon]

They aren’t pushing out more tanks

[crisp heath]

Atoman PDF are probably the blue guys and Leman Russ tanks we see

[arctic talon]

They don’t have full control

So they can’t like

Properly produce war material

[celest dome]

You mean allied ? At the start of the levels

[crisp heath]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

They might even be non traitor Moebian guardsmen

From other regiments

[celest dome]

Those could be Inquisitorial troops

[crisp heath]

Tertium is just one hive on Atoma, there's probably a lot of PDF to draw on

[arctic talon]

I don’t see the inquisition symbol on them

[celest dome]

Like those we have on the ship

[arctic talon]

Is the thing

The guys on the ship have it

[crisp heath]

The ship Inquisitorial troops wear black

[arctic talon]

^

Black and red

Those guys are black and blue

[sweet trail]

Well the issue is that any full scale military excursion into the infected regions is going to invite massive casualties due to unfamiliar terrain, plagues and what not.

[crisp heath]

I would bet the other regiments are not Moebian, they usually don't comingle regiments unless for a specific op like Vraks

[sweet trail]

You send in a large quantity of people at once and then the enemy has time and incentive to respond with force.

By dropping some nasty nurgle stuff on you.

Or the likes.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[sweet trail]

4 people on the other hand, is not worth as much hassle.

[arctic talon]

Neither side can push

[sweet trail]

and far less noisy.

[arctic talon]

Properly

It’s a stalemate

[crisp heath]

There's a reason we're doing all that we do ingame, which is probably to set conditions for reconquering the lower levels. We're reactivating water supplies, reconnoitering infected zones, killing commanders, and generally disrupting Chaos forces in prep for an assault by the local forces

[sweet trail]

Though the chaos cultists will benefit best from the stalemate

If they were just left to stew.

[crisp heath]

^ Chaos are infighting too badly, there's lots of dead bodies we steal cryptkeys from

[sweet trail]

True.

[arctic talon]

Those aren’t chaos

Those are gangers

[crisp heath]

Part of why we're uploading nonsense into their cogitators and the like

[arctic talon]

The gangers are in purple

[crisp heath]

Aren't we stealing the cryptkey to put nonsense into the enemy cogitator array in that mission?

I'm reasonably sure that would mean we need their codes not the gangers'

[arctic talon]

Wait nvm ur right

Still

[sweet trail]

Aren't there like two faction types of enemies

the scabs and whatever the chaos guardsmen are called.

[crisp heath]

Yeah, the military looking ones and the yellow outfit types

[sweet trail]

I'm assuming their allied but I haven't seen the two factions fight side by side

[full bane]

Scabs and Dregs yeah.

[arctic talon]

Ye but they’re aligned

Cultists + Moebian traitors

[crisp heath]

Like Skaven and Rotbloods

[arctic talon]

I’ve seen it several times

But the 2 sides are allied

[sweet trail]

Ah, I've just not spotted it then.

Makes sense.

[arctic talon]

They both serve nurgle

[full bane]

Yeah they spawn and fight together.

[arctic talon]

On the other hand

The water cartel

Isn’t aligned with them

[sweet trail]

Damn I've gotten unlucky and barely seen any.

[arctic talon]

But we haven’t seen any living water cartel members lol

[crisp heath]

Yeah they died fighting

[sweet trail]

Either way a stalemate for the forces of nurgle is ideal since its just going to facilitate the spread of their plagues and worsen their infestation of areas.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[sweet trail]

Hence us running around to mess about

[full bane]

I think the Dregs aren't as tactical or well trained. Their ranged enemies seem to walk slowly around the open spraying inaccurate autogun fire.

[crisp heath]

Unless the Inquisition finds a cure

[arctic talon]

It’s why we’re breaking the stalemate with these operations

[arctic talon]

They don’t take cover

Is another big thing

[crisp heath]

Kinda like how in DOW2 you make a virus for the Tyranids

[arctic talon]

They love running out of cover to spray you down

[sweet trail]

If they worshiped khorne they'd have an issue with being in a stalemate.

Also as a random aside to just poke in here. Everyone in this channel is far more civilised than the general chat.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Lol

[crisp heath]

Lore for the lore god, squawks for the beaky throne

[celest dome]

Those exist, but they work once

Then the Tyr adapt and use it

On you

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[sweet trail]

Like I don't understand why they're being so... hostile? or whatever they're doing at the current rather than having a nice chat. also the 2 hour slow mode is paneful.
Tyranid viruses generally backfire.

[arctic talon]

They work once

Is the issue

[crisp heath]

People that like Darktide are playing it

[arctic talon]

And you better hope there’s no survivors

[sweet trail]

The inquisition have been careful when applying the life eater virus to them out of fear that they would adapt to it then utilise it against them.

[crisp heath]

People that don't are in the general whining or busy doing other stuff like us chads

[arctic talon]

Yep

[full bane]

Good to know it's not just me imagining things. It felt like their AI wasn't as smart as the beta AI for the Scabs, up until I saw a squad of Moebians acting in fireteams.

[arctic talon]

Yeah moebians are organized

[crisp heath]

Moebians are geniuses and their lasguns are insanely good

[arctic talon]

And an effective fighting force

[sweet trail]

I quiet enjoy the game, my game just crashed and I'm waiting for food to finish cooking.

[arctic talon]

The dregs are

Idiots lol

[full bane]

It's a nice touch having them act differently.

[crisp heath]

Charging the moebians is a real pain

[sweet trail]

It is

[arctic talon]

They drown you in weight of fire

And they have like

No tactics

Or armor

[crisp heath]

And they have their gunners and especially gunner ogryns

[sweet trail]

Scabs are terrifying on low visibility maps.

[full bane]

I wonder if the Moebian specials like their flamers act differently?

[sweet trail]

I tried fighting them on malice with low vis and got gunned down in a hallway whilst fighting plaguegryn.

[arctic talon]

They do

Moebian flamers aim

The tox flamers keep on spraying

In the same direction

[crisp heath]

What I really want is like, an explorer mode without enemies

[neat grotto]

a

[sweet trail]

The Moebian specials use tactics as well.

[crisp heath]

Go walk around and take pics of the map

[arctic talon]

Also fun fact

[sweet trail]

Like the grenade boys will attempt to flush you into the gunners and so on

[arctic talon]

The cultists become more organized

When moebians are around

[sweet trail]

Yeah.

Makes them a nightmare.

I love it

[arctic talon]

It’s like the guardsmen are giving out orders

[wicked furnace]

why lasgans have recoil in this game, explain this lorenerds

[arctic talon]

It’s so fun having a really threatening enemy

[sweet trail]

Okay

[crisp heath]

Lasguns have recoil because every action has an equal or opposite reaction

[arctic talon]

Because recoil is good for player feedback

[sweet trail]

so some lasguns are built to simulate recoil to not throw off people who use autoguns.

That's an actual lore reason

[arctic talon]

Also some lasguns have recoil because forgeworlds throw it in

For yeah that reason

[sweet trail]

Its literally just to make sure you know you're shooting the gun and it feels like you are

as to not confuse the poor guardsmen

[crisp heath]

Heating up the air from the end of the barrel to the target causes feedback from the air in the form of recoil

[full bane]

Some have the excuse of kickback from superheating the gas near the barrel as well.

[sweet trail]

That too.

Mainly that on hellguns isn't it?

[crisp heath]

Like a plane works by superheating air out its back, lasguns superheat air and kick back

[sweet trail]

Since I don't think hellguns are designed to have recoil.

Or spread

[arctic talon]

Hotshots are linked up to those heavy backpacks

[sweet trail]

Unlike some lasguns.

[arctic talon]

So prolly

[full bane]

There are a lot of varied reasons for lasgun recoil scattered throughout the setting.
But for the most pary they're pretty consistently described with recoil.

[crisp heath]

Hellgun powerpacks probably balance you out alot

[arctic talon]

They might also have kick due to intervals

[full bane]

It's just 40k being 40k

[sweet trail]

Yeah, hellguns still have recoil mind you but its I think less than the silly lasguns.

[arctic talon]

Also lasguns lore wise always have less recoil

Then an actual like

Autogun

[sweet trail]

Yeah.

[latent birch]

Is what I accepted as a reason

[arctic talon]

The recoil is more so meant for giving the operator feedback

[crisp heath]

Which is true in gameplay. Autoguns kick way more than a lasgun, you can spam 94 lasgun shots and barely compensate

[minor lance]

My favoruite reasoning is that most guardsmen are from worlds with powder weapons. So they literally build recoil into the gun for psychological reasons.

[sweet trail]

Yeah.

[sweet trail]

It's a good reason to do it.

It'd really throw you off if you couldn't tell your gun was blasting.

Like "Hank did I shoot? I saw flash but the gun didn't move."

[crisp heath]

Seems like stuff any amount of training would not make it necessary

[sweet trail]

"Yeah they do that." Hank
"Well shucks how am I meant to compensate for recoil if its got no recoil?"
hank shrugs

[crisp heath]

Or perhaps there's something internal to the gun that causes recoil when it fires

Like a mechanical actuator

[full bane]

Especially if you're running with one of the few examples where lasguns don't have visible red beams.

[minor lance]

There's far more to human psychology that "A bit of training will make it better".

Question, would the Lasgun feel good if it had 0 recoil when you shot it?

[sweet trail]

Nope

[crisp heath]

I mean I've played VR games and there's no recoil there

[sweet trail]

wouldn't feel as powerful

I imagine having no recoil would somewhat hurt ones pride.

[arctic talon]

The gun has visual feedback however

[full bane]

They do at least try to simulate it with vibrating controllers tbf.

[arctic talon]

^

[full bane]

There's feedback. At least for the good ones.

[sweet trail]

Like swinging a sword has a lot of physical feedback.
Shooting a gun has a decent amount of feed back

[minor lance]

That didn't answer my question, though. Would you rather Lasguns in this game have recoil or not? Which feels better?

[sweet trail]

You know you're doing strenuous activity and having to fight the thing will keep you focused

if its just the funny laser pointer you might run the issue of not trying as hard.

[crisp heath]

Are we doing watsonian or doylist now? I think they just have recoil, it's not something made up

Like the way they work has recoil

[sweet trail]

It's probably a mix of both.

Some hare in lore stated to be designed with more recoil

[crisp heath]

I don't think they just overengineer it to have recoil

[barren tapir]

Lasgun recoil

[sweet trail]

Because they were dark age training weapons for actual guns but the mechanicus don't want to take out the recoil bit as that's sacreligious.

[barren tapir]

It still work uh

[sweet trail]

At least that what I think the reason listed for a certian type of gun was

but yeah they'd still have recoil anyway they're outputting a lot of energy.

Probably not as much recoil as some of them

but a bit of umf as superheated air escapes the barrel due to a laser going through it

[minor lance]

There's a loot of reasons the gunlas coilre.

[sweet trail]

It's a question that I think has been asked and answered a few times in lore.

With multiple reasons.

One being they shoot laser that make air warm so air leave barrel due to being excited.
the other being is that they are derived from dark age training weapons so they have built in recoil to simulate the actual guns they used (which is a bit lethal for a training gun but okay.)
and the third being that some techpriest a while ago/ the person who made or discovered them decided he wants them to have recoil.

We all know the real reason is because GW thought it was cool or didn't think about it

And that's a good enough reason for me.

[copper cliff]

Accatran recon lasgun is fully automatic and has no recoil, Darktide following the GW tradition of "eh"

[minor lance]

recoil feel gud

[copper cliff]

Who are you talking to?

[minor lance]

No one in particular, just responding to what you said

[crisp heath]

I think the recoil being caused by displacing air makes sense, I also don't think they're literal lasers considering they're visible and audible

[sour ferry]

I think my headcanon is just that the lasguns have some internal component that slams backwards for whatever reason.

[crisp heath]

Luetin had a video on this]

in some books the guns dont really shoot laser, they shoot a actual bullet, so why the recoil

in others it doesnt have any recoil, some dont have bullets coming out of it

regular GW lore inconsistency

[hollow walrus]

i wanna playyyyyyyyyyyy

[crisp heath]

cool]

[minor lance]

The generally accepted cannon for lasguns is they're literal laser guns. They shoot highly concentrated beams of light. Not all lasguns have recoil for this reason.

[lofty sequoia]

From the moment I understood the weakness of my servers... That's disgusting me.

[minor lance]

Somewhere else

Not the lore chat.

[lofty sequoia]

Adeptus Mechanicus quote
accurate

[minor lance]

Right.

[sweet trail]

Our lands must be untainted by your talk of abominable machines.

[lofty sequoia]

[minor lance]

Necrons better, agree.

[sweet trail]

This domain is currently in use for talking about laser gun recoil

[minor lance]

The real talk is why does necro gauss weaponry literally not at all work like gauss weaponry

[sweet trail]

I like the mechanicus aesthetic. but necrons are my favourate xenos faction so I'll allow it.

[alpine ingot]

yeah... can we keep lore chat free of that shit, I'd rather not have every channel be filled with shitposting and slowmode

[sweet trail]

This is true.

They don't fire a projectile

they fire a disintegration beam

[minor lance]

They're disintegration rays

Yeah

[sweet trail]

Not at all coil guns.

[lofty sequoia]

But necron are so... slow. Mentally and physically speaking

[calm torrent]

I think there's some confusion with needle rifles, which fire a las shot and a small projectile.

[sweet trail]

Well, the necron warriors are

necron lords and the likes are fast

Immortals are decently mentally fast but not very fast physically.

[alpine ingot]

well you see... Gauss flayer sounds cooler then disintegration ray guns, so... checkmate. screw your accurate naming conventions.

[minor lance]

Fun fact! Necron Immortals have consciousness / sapience now. Not nearly lord level, but it's there

Kill Team confirmed that

[sweet trail]

I think a better name for them would be something flayer rather than gauss flayer.

[minor lance]

Every day we get closer to space Tomb Kings

[sweet trail]

Necron immortals have been known and seen to boss around warriors.

It's just warriors and the likes who are head empty

[lofty sequoia]

Are we talking about Gauss recoil ?

[sweet trail]

everyone in the military or politically important got an amount of their mind saved.

Gauss guns don't have recoil

They just have Death

Only death

[minor lance]

IIRC it was originally just a case of them following protocols. But as per Kill Team they actually do have a level of sapience.

[sweet trail]

even if they did have recoil they're being held by a literal robot so he doesn't have to care.

[pearl sandal]

Green Antipersonnel Unaliving Space Shooter. G.A.U.S.S.

[sweet trail]

I like that

I'm stealing that

[lofty sequoia]

Sadly

[minor lance]

Fantastic, I accept this wholesale

[minor lance]

Amazingly. Tomb Kings based af

[alpine ingot]

IF I remember correctly, necrons can run and are actually pretty fucking fast, they just choose to walk at their enemies because they're immortal and shit and it freaks out human a lot just seeing a phalanx of metal dudes not giving a fuck as they march towards them.

[sweet trail]

Setra is a chad

not saying his full name I'll pass out

almost did the last time I tried.

got it finished though

[lofty sequoia]

But necron are so different about just 40k tomb kings

[sweet trail]

As a random aside I think giving the silent king a model was a mistake

[pearl sandal]

And because it's 40k, the Green bit isn't because the beams are green, but because it was originally built to Unliave Green Personnel, specifically Krorks.

[sweet trail]

and believe that he is infact a fake decoy one

[alpine ingot]

Posting settra's full name would probably get you accidentally timed out because of the sheer wall of text it would form

[sweet trail]

as the real silent king would be too powerful.

[minor lance]

Necrons can go fast in theory, at least some can depending on their type. But the reason they're as slow as they are is because stuff like Warriors are near-unthinking machines. They'er a bit like servitors, but even less will.

[sweet trail]

Yeah warriors are slightly lacking in motor function

lords and the like are scarily fast.

And deathmarks are literally cheating

as are chronomancers.

[minor lance]

The thing about models is they're a broad representation of power on the TT. The TT 'crunches' power together, a much flatter curve.

[alpine ingot]

yeah base necron it's a bit of a hassle so they're usually left to fucking walk. but higher ranking necrons then that can run

I know at the very least Immortals can if given the command

[minor lance]

Also Wraiths. Wraiths spooky.

[sweet trail]

Wraith very spooky

So are those big ones

Cereptekh heavy constructs?

I don't recall the name

the lore for one of their guns is so busted

[minor lance]

Skarapekh Destroyers iirc?

[sweet trail]

No the big ones.

[noble creek]

how are ogrins reproducing if there aren't female ones? 🤔

[minor lance]

Uhhh

[sweet trail]

There are

they look the same

Let that sink in and fill thee with horror.

[minor lance]

to wahapedia!

[celest dome]

There are, GW isn't ready to show what they look like

[sweet trail]

Anyway, the big angry necron robot of doom has a gun that sends things in a cone to a dimension that apparently has a different set of laws of physics

so the thing just instantly obliterates itself

and ceases to be.

[jade crest]

I have come here for refuge from general chat

[sweet trail]

How the fuck do you block that with a void shield.

[sweet trail]

Welcome, brother, we talk of necrons.

[jade crest]

Wonderful

[minor lance]

The Not-War-of-the-Worlds-Copyright-Infringement-Not-Intended ™️ looking mfs?

[sweet trail]

We were on about lasgun recoil but got side tracked

[celest dome]

Do not cause slow to propagate

[jade crest]

Lasgun recoil!

[sweet trail]

Lmao a bot reacts you if you mention lasgun recoil

That's great.

[minor lance]

cadia stands

emperor protects

[jade crest]

Corpse starch

[minor lance]

praise the omnissiah

And I think I'm forgetting one?

except for carry over

[jade crest]

Carry over my wayward son

[minor lance]

@sweet trailThese guys?

[sweet trail]

Nay.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Necron-Seraptek-Heavy-Construct-Body-2018

This boy

He's a big un

[jade crest]

Omg a protoss colossus

[minor lance]

OH THEM

[minor lance]

I am realising now hjow many things infringe on WotW copyright

[sweet trail]

That entire game is a spin off of 40k

[jade crest]

Omg a half life strider

[sweet trail]

literally made because they lost license to make a warhammer fantasy and 40k strategy game

hence warcraft and starcraft coing into being.

[minor lance]

And yeee he a chonky boi. IIRC he's pretty solid on TT

[jade crest]

"We'll make our own warhammer"

[crisp heath]

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f9180655-878f-452d-a381-22f4d13a10e0/ddv5s8h-c623e17f-0dc8-4285-8ea0-58835eca7f4b.png/v1/fill/w_1280,h_1637,q_80,strp/grievous_necron_concept___wh40k_starwars_by_wolfdog_artcorner_ddv5s8h-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTYzNyIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2Y5MTgwNjU1LTg3OGYtNDUyZC1hMzgxLTIyZjRkMTNhMTBlMFwvZGR2NXM4aC1jNjIzZTE3Zi0wZGM4LTQyODUtOGVhMC01ODgzNWVjYTdmNGIucG5nIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEyODAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.Zg15gBbvLpIIuZR6644xzOpGnJFd9cEMY4WqKUNbXjA

My personal favorite copyright infringing art

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f9180655-878f-452d-a381-22f4d13a10e0/ddvyb7a-a29b92c8-4f04-45c1-9979-01fdfa5af272.png/v1/fill/w_1600,h_1331,q_80,strp/sepretai_dynasty_pattern_ghost_ark_40k_starwars_by_wolfdog_artcorner_ddvyb7a-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTMzMSIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2Y5MTgwNjU1LTg3OGYtNDUyZC1hMzgxLTIyZjRkMTNhMTBlMFwvZGR2eWI3YS1hMjliOTJjOC00ZjA0LTQ1YzEtOTk3OS0wMWZkZmE1YWYyNzIucG5nIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTE2MDAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.rUxx87SaN09M6Pmr8e-_6QbaRwib3nGpYXLck09FO10

AHH, LORD SOLAR KENOBI

[plush mason]

it looks like a star wars droid of some kind lol

[sweet trail]

It does yes.

[minor lance]

holy shit

It looks like a droideka

You're right

[slender orchid]

-Cue lion king music- The Circle offfff Theft!!!!!!

[plush mason]

lol

[jade crest]

Tyrazerg

Zerganid

[sweet trail]

He kind of reminds me of a droideka mixed with a terror biodroid from star wars force unleashed 2.

[plush mason]

yeah

[sweet trail]

Different face mask of course but the back and the arms are right

[plush mason]

its a droideka mixed with a few legends droids

[sweet trail]

to be fair its a big robot

its bound to look like at least a single type of droid.

just like how necrons look very similar to terminators as terminators are just angry metal skeletons

and necrons are angry metal stylised green light having Egyptian skeletons.

[nocturne jetty]

Can we fight Khorne pls.

[celest dome]

Wrong channel Mira, as always

[unreal stream]

waaagh

[nocturne jetty]

Oh im at Darktide 40k!

💀

[rustic spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjHSSftny68

rylanor was a chad

[hallow badger]

If Servitors are lobtomized, why do the doctors/healing stations in darktide talk and act, normal. Are they not servitors just heavily integrated cyborgs or somethin?

[plush mason]

not all servitors are fully lobtomized

some still need a level of higher function to do their jobs

[slender orchid]

Nah, they are lobotomized but are programmed. Several including those on ships still talk and respond.
Servitors are organic computers basically, an in universe way of not using AIs for complex tasks.

[hallow badger]

Yeah Im curious cause the medical guys have voice lines like saying they're lonely, take them with you, they feel their mind slipping away, etc. Curious if they're actually not lobotomized

[plush mason]

that is why i said fully lobotomized. as in not reduced to the level of a 1 year old or a vegetable

ofc now that i think about it. what they call lobotomization in 40k may not be actual lobotomization

[pastel schooner]

Since an irl lobotomy was just damaging the brain & taking chunks out. In this case, it may be suppressing most of the mind’s functions to make way for processing

[plush mason]

ye

[pastel schooner]

Or just trying to make the brain as clean a slate as possible

[minor lance]

We're the good guys I swear!!!

[charred tulip]

abominable intelligence= BAD, make Matrix happen, hate Man of Iron

[plush mason]

lol

[charred tulip]

servitor meat brain= GOOD, clean, not sillicony, look like skull, IS skull

not think bad thought, can't think bad thought

(until a chaos happens or a programming fuckup or-)

[pastel schooner]

If it’s Flesh, it’s Fresh!
If it’s Steel, time to kill!

[hallow badger]

Tau's the closest thing we have to a good guy i think. Imperium I definitely wouldn't consider the good guys. But they certainly are better than something like chaos.

[pastel schooner]

Though, that makes me wonder…

[plush mason]

techno-unggabungga noises

[pastel schooner]

Why use just the brain? Why not make a machine entirely out of flesh?

[charred tulip]

meanwhile, Imperial Robots exist on the fringe as Dumb AI which is sort of OK and not Strong AI ala Men of Iron, and exist on a combination of punch-cards and maybe possibly supplementation with Servitor style wetware

[charred tulip]

see there's dudes in the Mechanicus who DO do that, muh human body is the best machine we just need to make it better instead of replacing it with metal

[plush mason]

rule number 1 in the imperium, hypocrisy is the highest of virtues

[charred tulip]

however, the guys making superhuman adonises and horrible Bioshock fuckups of steak-people are A: not as directly relevant or visible as the guys making cyborgs, and B: do not directly sell models

yes, these fellows for one, as a Lexicanum blurb https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Organicists

[plush mason]

so. imperial humukuli or whatever the fuck those dark eldar dudes are called

[charred tulip]

probably maybe somewhere in the secondary lore

[minor lance]

To answer your quiestion: Heresy.

Why? Because AI nearly wiped out humanity.

A mind without a soul and a soul without a mind or something to that degree

[charred tulip]

cloning is one of those grey maybes as far as being a thing in 40k outside Dark Eldar horrorshows or the Iron Warriors making teeming murder-wombs, someone's probably doing it somewhere, so you can homebrew fluff it, but nobody's doing it everywhere

these fellows are a good example of the modern Imperium going hog wild with bio-tech on ordinary dudes, without them becoming twisted freako cyber-flaggelants or supra dupra Space Marines https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gland_Warriors

take some good-old podunk Guardsmen, and surgically implant them with a shitload of extra adrenals, throw a liver here or there, and make their bodies pump them on 200% combat drugs so that they're permanently IN the fucking ZONE

and then setting them loose like Arnie in Predator to kill some goddamn Tyranids

ah, or these guys, actual clones and garbled up splicings of big-name characters https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Afriel_Strain

unfortunately the universe itself hates that they exist, perhaps for being a wrinkle of identities & personalities that already exist, and so instead of kicking ass & taking names they get to suffer

[minor lance]

@pastel schooner I'm trying to remember the specifics uhh... The way it goes is:
A machine that can think but has no soul is an abomination and must be destroyed.
A body that cannot think but has a soul is useless by itself.

If you take a thinking machine and give it a soul, it is no longer an abomination.
If you take a thoughtless body with soul and give it a mind, it is now useful.

Servitors are just that. The soul is intact, bu t the mind has been rendered near-useless in many cases. The person is then shackled to machine intelligence, direqcted by a being with a soul. Thus, it's not heresy.

It's your classic Imperium loophole

[pastel schooner]

Ah

[minor lance]

Look into 'cherubs'

They're uhhh

Something.

[pastel schooner]

They’re the Servitor babies, right?

[minor lance]

yep

[charred tulip]

clone baby scoop the brain put the computer in

precious

[minor lance]

flying servitor clone babies

[charred tulip]

muddying the waters of course are things like Necrons, which are both technically abominable intelligences or approaching such with the whole extinguished/nulled souls thing and xenos but fascinate the Mechanicus endlessly (and maybe Mars is where one of the big boy C'Tan is/was hanging...) or Nulls and Pariahs, who are made of meat, but sentient, but have a fucked up warp imprint that both leaves them sociologically retarded/dysfunctional/metaphysically wrong and makes people uncannily despise their existence, and the fact that Servitors or Imperial Robots that are too intelligent or sapient are likely to be branded as Abominable Intelligence just to be on the safe side

fairly certain as well that no Servitor, Servo-Skull, etcetera is supposed to outright contain its original surviving personality lest it be Tech-Heresy, but then the biggest britchingest Mechanicus boys are full General Grievous mode but shut up it's THEIR RIGHT to define AND cross those lines

[plush mason]

lol

again. hypocrisy is the highest virtue of the imperium

[sour ferry]

Abominable Intelligence bad, unless it's a Votann. 👀

[charred tulip]

still bad but those Squats are just such good neighbors. and also, we'd like to take a look at those filthy techno-intelligences. for science. it's NOT heretekal if we're just looking. this time.

[crisp heath]

just yesterday people were telling me no one describes the tau as good guys smh

[arctic talon]

They're the nice guys

of the galaxy

[rose thorn]

Is there an actual difference between the space marine chApter companies?

[arctic talon]

like

The companies within a chapter?

[hallow badger]

Haha I mean technically yeah I guess they're not. Nobody really is in this universe (one of its best features imo, different flavors of gray). But I think they're the closest thing in the universe. There's apparently a lot of brainwashing and sterilization of races that don't agree with them (assuming they don't kill them outright). I guess they're kind of similar in the imperium in that way? Where if you don't agree with them and work towards the "greater good", they remove you as a threat. Just I guess with the imperium that = death and tau that = brainwashing/sterilization? So they're lik the imperium with less blood/xeno based racism?

also I think they're pretty adamant with their caste system. So you know, basic rights also aren't in a great spot.

but yeah as far as background go, it feels like the Tau just haven't been explored enough and in the major popular media to showcase their messed up parts

[atomic pelican]

The caste system isn't so bad, for Tau themselves at least. It basically just means you are born into your role. Your rights are still better than the avg imperial citizen

[crisp heath]

its just odd to me when tau trample on people they're seen as decent but when the imperium does its yet another example of how they are truly villainous

[hallow badger]

o yeah 100%. I wouldn't mind life in the tau empire compared to literally every other race lol

[atomic pelican]

It's because usually tau trampling people is assimilation rather than genocide

[arctic talon]

Craftworld Eldar life is pretty nice

[atomic pelican]

Oh yes

[arctic talon]

It’s death you have to worry about lol

[atomic pelican]

CWE life is probably the best

As long as you die on the craftworld, naturally, ur fine. Or if someone recovers your stone

[arctic talon]

Tau def have the best overall life

Because their souls are so weak they dissipate in the warp near instantly

On death

[atomic pelican]

I agree merely for the fact that Tau having weak souls is almost 100% a benefit

Literally having a stronger soul is just straight worse in 40k

[crisp heath]

widespread sterilization is genocide on a longer timeframe, and using people as cannon fodder doesn't seem much better morally if you ask me

[arctic talon]

On the other hand having a stronger soul might have you get torn apart by a million daemons lol

[atomic pelican]

CWE get around it by being inducted into the matrix, which is pretty much safe waiting around

[arctic talon]

They don’t sterilize people

For one

That’s old lore

And is non canon

[grizzled grove]

I wonder if it's possible for chaos cults of rival gods to join forces into a Chaos Undivided allegiance. Thinking about what could be possible DLC for DT.

[atomic pelican]

Widespread 'sterilization' was done in a noncanon DoW ending. There is canon in the Deathwing ttrpgs iirc, but it's only criminals and 'malcontents'. still not good, but it's not entire species

[arctic talon]

But they do use non tau races in more disposable roles

[atomic pelican]

Yeee

[arctic talon]

In combat

[atomic pelican]

Ironically, likely less disposable than the Imperium still

[crisp heath]

The vespids aren't brainwashed either anymore I take it

[atomic pelican]

with humans

The vespid question is 'vague'

Maybe

Kroot are def free tho

But the Kroot also completely accepted the tau after the defense of Pech

[arctic talon]

It was never hard canon they were brainwashed and GW refuses to give an answer

All we know is that high ranking vespids have the helmet

[atomic pelican]

The Mystery Helmet™️

[arctic talon]

Which might be used for brainwashing

We don’t know

[atomic pelican]

Communicator or LE BRAIN DEVICE

[keen stag]

the tau are becoming too nice they should have kept the sterilisation thing

[arctic talon]

Why

It was only in dawn of war

[keen stag]

because grimdark

[arctic talon]

In the non canon ending of the game

They’re still grimdark

Lol

An oppressive society

With no real social progression possible

Constant propaganda

[keen stag]

not that much tbh they are pretty ok and cool

[arctic talon]

And they’re constantly expanding

[crisp heath]

Is it ever stated which narcotics or chemical stuff that are put into a Space Marines body when he's in battle?

[arctic talon]

Marines don’t use narcotics in combat

Unless we count CSM

[tribal plank]

the only reason why the Tau may be considered 'good' is because it's 40k universe. Every other factions are worst. If you take out the Tau and put them in another sci-fi universe, they would definitely be considered as big shots villains.

Tbh, I always thought that the Tau in 40k are very similar to the Covenants in Halo. Now imagine you put the covenants in 40k universe. They may be bad guys in Halo universe and pretty strong in the lore, but they would be newbies when compared to Tyranids, the Imperium, the Orks, Chaos, the Eldars or the necron.

Even with their superior technology, they wouldn't even stand a chance against any other faction. From the mighty Imperium to the few eldars remaining on their craft world

[atomic pelican]

They have tho

Against the Imperium, nids, and orkz

[arctic talon]

Also the Tau are literally generic repressive regime number 22

Like

They’re super evil in every other setting

They’re like

Not evil at all by comparison in 40k

[crisp heath]

but like, in the Night Lord Omnibus, Horus Rising and False Gods, almost every time there's a battle it is stated their power armor inject them with battle narcotics

[atomic pelican]

All CSM right?

[arctic talon]

Night lords Omnibus is csm

[atomic pelican]

Yee

I didnt know if maybe it had a loyalist scene mentioned

[crisp heath]

I still maintain if you care about humanity's survival, the Imperium is the closest to a good guy since there's no one else wide scale and dedicated to that cause, even with the tau, humans are at best just another client race and their survival is secondary to the goals of the Ethereals and the vague "Greater good"

[atomic pelican]

The best hope for humanity's survival was killed by the Imperium

[arctic talon]

Lol

[atomic pelican]

the Interex or the myriad of other human factions that got murked

[arctic talon]

Yep

[tribal plank]

thats the thing, 40k universe is so chaotic that an ultra-repressive empire forged on fanatic belief with their greater good like the Tau are considered the less 'evil' lmao

[arctic talon]

Yeah

That’s the point of the tau

They’re supposed to be a grounding faction for morality

Evil by most sci fi setting standards

Literally saints compared to everyone else

[crisp heath]

obviously they weren't the best shot if they got murked by the imperium, the GEoM is the rightful leader of humanity and if his primarchs hadn't been lil babbies humanity would have been elevated to great heights

[atomic pelican]

Definitely smartest guy in galaxy,

claims to be omnitient

killed by a bald guy

The Emperor was a fucking moron

[crisp heath]

tbf, he got the bald guy back

[keen stag]

he never claimed to be omnitient
the reason why he made the primarch is because he wasnt

[crisp heath]

a bald guy almost exploding from warp juice

[atomic pelican]

That's just the power of the bald sheen

[tribal plank]

cease your heresy immediately

[atomic pelican]

silence green leaf

[arctic talon]

The imperium wasn’t the best at making a good life for it’s citizens

It’s was the best for conquering

And subjugation lol

That’s why they beat most of the human factions they ran into

The imperium is built for war

And nothing but war

[crisp heath]

They exist with a galaxy of constant warfare, its obviously not an ideal or utopic society but it also wasn't Empy's end goal to be where they currently are, it is an obvious flaw in the other human nations that a. they were not lead by the closest thing humanity has to a god, and b. they weren't good at warfare in a galaxy full of it

[atomic pelican]

He also got fucking ownzoned by some random ork warboss before Horus saved him

[arctic talon]

Other human societies wiped out were far less militarily minded

[arctic talon]

The interx were good at warfare

Lol

[crisp heath]

if the Imperium ever wins the war, they would have a very hard time dealing with planets and whatnot

[arctic talon]

They got drowned in bodies

Or rather

Drowned in Marines

[crisp heath]

wasn't that a literal krork

[crisp heath]

yeah but they're orks, creatures made for war and they can get very big and very strong

[arctic talon]

Not much can stand up to a full legion + several imperium army regiments

[crisp heath]

and also

pretty sure

that ork was like

[atomic pelican]

Gone at that point, so no

but he was big

It's just funny

[crisp heath]

almost turning back into krork

[arctic talon]

Prolly not

It wasn’t as big as the beast

As much as I hate the war of the beast

[crisp heath]

are they gone because it seems like orks have the potential to get back to close to that level considering war of the beast and shit

[arctic talon]

The overfiend of octarius is far from the largest

[arctic talon]

Mostly due to getting curbstomped by the imperium

Orks react to violence by growing stronger

The Imperium during the great crusade was very violent

The Beast was a byproduct of said violence

[crisp heath]

if the interex were gud they would have won, being drowned in bodies was a strat that worked and they couldn't deal with, the imperium regularly fights enemies who use that tactic and they often win and often lose themselves but arent wiped out by such

[tribal plank]

the imperium will never conquer the galaxy tho, the business model of GW is to keep things running for ever. Look at how the heresy ended lmao. Now, at best, we get regional conflicts like octavius or armageddon, and many skirmish here and there, but I doubt there will be a time when a faction will rule over the entire 40k universe.
Maybe our grandchildren will have the chance to see the end of 40k, but even then I doubt it. GW loves their golden cow too much to let it end abruptly

[arctic talon]

Also the interx weren’t entirely built for war

Is my point

The galaxy is only in endless war due to how large the imperium is

[atomic pelican]

"If society good, it would survive being invaded and pillaged" isnt exactly the best of takes

[arctic talon]

And how stretched out it is

[arctic talon]

Yeah this

[tribal plank]

it's not solely because of the Imperium that the galaxy is at war

[crisp heath]

in a world where you are expected to be invaded and pillaged, your survivability is an important question

[arctic talon]

It isn’t solely

But they’re a big reason

The imperium is spread out which makes for an absurd ammount of juicy raiding targets

[tribal plank]

orks and eldars were crushing each other's skulls long before humans went to space

[arctic talon]

Also along with giving Chaos

[crisp heath]

if your ideology literally cannot survive the opposition you are going to end up literally destroyed

[arctic talon]

Their greatest asset

[tribal plank]

not even talking about the necron

[atomic pelican]

Yum! Drukhari LOVE being sold several billion souls by the inquisition

[arctic talon]

The primarchs

[atomic pelican]

The imperium is truly the best for humanity

The Imperium, on the way to sell 7 billion souls to the Drukhari for the chance of a new chair

[arctic talon]

It was more then that

But yeah

[atomic pelican]

Yeah Ik

It was entire sectors t

LMAO

[crisp heath]

Who's the alternative

[atomic pelican]

Literally anyone

[arctic talon]

Humanity not being unified

Is the better alternative

But the imperium is still evil

At the end of the day

They’re objectively evil

[crisp heath]

Yeah the orks and the nids are gonna be great for humanity

[arctic talon]

They aren’t meant to be good

[crisp heath]

How are they objectively evil

[arctic talon]

They lobotomized their own civilians

For one

Second of all

You must worship the emperor or die

[atomic pelican]

Have you ever heard of a digganob

[arctic talon]

You can also be killed

At any time

For any reason

Also the Imperium is meant to be evil

GW has said as much

Oh yeah also committing genocide against peaceful xenos

[crisp heath]

yes and tbh they're like an example of what I mean, the imperial equivalent to digganobs, armageddon ork hunters, are basically better in every way

[arctic talon]

Also committing genocide against certain abhuman strains

Due to reclassification

Lynchings

Against voidborn humans

Oh normal worlds

Summary execution for refusing to follow orders

Summary execution for following orders

[minor lance]

Imperium is objectively evil

[arctic talon]

Absurd work hours in manufactorums

[minor lance]

All factions in 40K are their own flavour of evil

[arctic talon]

GW has said the imperium is supposed to be evil

And they certainly are evil

Oh yeah Slave labor

As well

[atomic pelican]

Slave labor + literal zombification slavery

[arctic talon]

Mass incarceration for one person committing a crime

[minor lance]

Penitent engines exist

[arctic talon]

Mass lobotimzation

[minor lance]

How can you lookat a penitent engine and go "Yep. Those are the good guys"