40k-lore-chat

[mossy mortar]

their theme is they hate themselves, want to become robots, and they're big jerks to everyone else too

it's a little too angstly honestly, which is saying something considering it's space marines

[odd palm]

The scars of the heresy run deep

[mossy mortar]

I think that's the issue a lot of writers have - Space Marines are all set up with angsty teen with daddy issues problems, but then the writers take it too far and actually write them like bickering teenagers and it's dumb

[odd palm]

[mossy mortar]

It's supposed to add depth but they can't actually act like idiots

It's supposed to be silent wounds

[copper cliff]

Feel like that's kind of the point. Even these demi-gods perceived as heroic angelic figures. Are actually just a bunch of bickering teenagers.

[odd palm]

To be somewhat expected, they are taken when they are teenagers. And turned into killing machines, stripped mostly of their humanity. A cult of sacrifice and duty isn’t exactly the best place for mental health

[storm jungle]

Its really not

like

people really need to understand if you removed the Iron Hands from 40k nothing would change

its kinda hard to swallow i know

[copper cliff]

No more robo marines :(

[mossy mortar]

I think Iron Hands are one of teh only marines who hang out with their own people after becoming marines

they could do more with that

I think they just don't pay enough attention to the monk part of warrior monk

[odd palm]

I mean in fairness a number of chapters or regiments, worlds etc could be removed and losing little

[mossy mortar]

Monks should be content

[storm jungle]

Not really my point

Iron Hands are a founding chapter, most of them got pretty neat stuff and contribute a lot to their own narratives

Iron Hands are like

"MUH FLESH IS WEAK"

[mossy mortar]

Iron Hands never got a good writer to champion them

[storm jungle]

"WE'RE ASSHOLES"

[storm jungle]

This.

[odd palm]

I know you’re point, just saying is all

[storm jungle]

all their novels are the same old shit

[mossy mortar]

That's what it boils down to

Abnett did a good job making Ultramarines less lame for instance

[odd palm]

Admittedly that isn’t hard when the bar was set so low by ward

[mossy mortar]

Space Rome should have wide appeal honestly

give the kind of people who like wargaming..

I'm actually shocked there's no real space napoleon

[odd palm]

Likely a French regiment

[copper cliff]

Iron Hands are what happens when mechanicus players want daddy issues

[plush mason]

lol

nah iron hands are what happens when the writers fail to find a way to make a faction in the setting stay relevant

[odd palm]

I’ll still take the IH over the SW tbh

[plush mason]

SW?

[odd palm]

Space Wolves

[plush mason]

oh

SW are easier to keep relevant sadly

[odd palm]

Naturally, they have a much wider appeal of being a chapter fashioned in the likeness of “””””Vikings”””””

[plush mason]

yes

[copper cliff]

Werewolf vikings

[mossy mortar]

The wolf hover chariot was kind of too much

Again Dan Abnett did a great job writing them

[odd palm]

Oh their hard pull to a wolf theme instead the old legions Viking theme makes them a joke and something you don’t take seriously

[odd palm]

I’ll take your word for it. I avoid their books due to disinterest. But focusing on one of their perhaps few sensible marines. Blackmane is a good idea tbh

[dusk patrol]

Tbh, you could say the same for half of the first founding chapters.

Imperial Fists only contribution to lore has been the Phalanx recently, nothing else really matters much.

[errant yacht]

Iron Hands needs more love tbh. They're the only Space Marine chapter that the Cult Mechanicus has

[dusk patrol]

Raven Guard's only significant piece is when the fought the Tau.

Salamanders are absolutely worthless and never get to do anything.

[odd palm]

I mean really, only the Ultramarines and Blood Angels have any true significance on the lore in terms of first founding

[dusk patrol]

Iron Hands definitely need love but there's a lot of chapters who do as well.

Dark Angels and Space Wolves have a lot of significance too.

But a lot of first founding chapters do not.

[odd palm]

Eh, somewhat

[dusk patrol]

Space Wolves objectively do.

[odd palm]

The Dark Angels not really, looking for old traitors adds little

[dusk patrol]

Dark Angels less so but they still have a lot of major plot points.

There's a good amount of plot lines which don't have to do with the Fallen.

Not enough

But a good amount, especially in recent years.

[errant yacht]

Fallen Angels could do with a bit more attention, I think. I wanna think that the Chaos worshippers are a vocal minority, and a decent amount of them are the last pieces of evidence that the Imperial Truth even existed at all

[odd palm]

They are few and far between

[dusk patrol]

Not really in recent years

And the Fallen plotline at least is becoming something more now.

[dusk patrol]

Not really how its been shown with Luther congregating them.

Most aren't shown to be in any way loyalist.

[odd palm]

True, until the great rift it had little impact aside from giving the Dark Angels a full time job

[errant yacht]

I could see a fallen angel running a criminal gang built around "the Emperor is not a god but an extraordinary man with great accomplishments"

[dusk patrol]

The Imperial Truth was also a lie.

And its even more of a lie these days tbh.

The Emperor may not have been a god, but he might as well be one now with how he's changed.

The term god is pretty meaningless anyways since it doesn't really have clear borders, but for 40k it fits enough.

[odd palm]

Funny that the Templars play a more significant role than at least half the first founding chapters.

[dusk patrol]

Hell they're more popular than the Fists

[odd palm]

Of course, though it’s always been the case that the Fists are overlooked for their notable second founding chapters

Comes with the territory.
Granted until Guillimans return, an argument could be made for the Templars being one of the most significant chapters due to their numbers alone.
As having between 1k-10k astartes makes it easy to plug numerous holes or take more worlds for the imperium that other chapters wouldn’t be able to do alone

[mossy mortar]

if they have their own army book or miniatures then they're "singificant" heh

[mossy mortar]

there isn't one tho

[dusk patrol]

I mean they've done important stuff recently, and in the past Wolves have always been significant and had a lot of stuff going on.

[mossy mortar]

They have a bunch of unique miniatures so they're big

[dusk patrol]

Same with DA to a lesser extent

[mossy mortar]

since otherwise youd have a bunch of orphaned figures

DA get all the wing helmets and Ravenwing stuff

[dusk patrol]

A lot of times yes although results vary.

Blood Angels can't fucking get good books most of the time.

[mossy mortar]

Do DA still get their unique landspeeders

[arctic talon]

Ye

[mossy mortar]

or did they write those back out

[dusk patrol]

Dante and Devastation of Baal were the only two I enjoyed recently.

[arctic talon]

They have them still

[mossy mortar]

i left around 6th/7th edition

[dusk patrol]

Lemartes were ok too though.

[arctic talon]

No one uses them tho iirc

[odd palm]

Recently there have been a number BA books. Regardless of quality

[dusk patrol]

Yes

[arctic talon]

There are 2 angels inside of you

[dusk patrol]

And I said "they can't get good books"

Not "Blood Angels don't get books"

Echoes of Eternity I guess could count for them

[odd palm]

I misread

[arctic talon]

I’d rather not get books then get shitty books for a faction imo

[dusk patrol]

Tbh, yeah

[arctic talon]

Since shitty books often feel even more disappointing

[arctic talon]

Then again that might be me malding about craftworld eldar books

[dusk patrol]

The Rafen series at least GW has ignored the hell out of

To the point where it might as well have been retconned.

[arctic talon]

I hope it gets retconned lol

[celest dome]

I still think an Eldar against IoM Tide could work

[dusk patrol]

It wouldn't really fit the Eldar style is part of the issue.

[mossy mortar]

what's iom

[dusk patrol]

Imperium of Man

[mossy mortar]

Nah they should just have eldar maps in a Space Hulk exploring spinoff

[dusk patrol]

Also, GW and other companies probably want a safer sell for now still. But we'll see.

[mossy mortar]

Darktide 2 should be a Space Hulk shows up in system

it would add zero G segments, new ork and genestealer enemies, and monster infighting were different faction monsters fight each other

[celest dome]

How so ?

[dusk patrol]

Because its not really how they fight.

[arctic talon]

^

[mossy mortar]

So you can drop into a big fight between nurgle and orks and you have to pick who to help

[celest dome]

0g maps aren't my thing

[odd palm]

A stealth/action subterfuge game focusing on the eldar could be interesting.
A craftworld attempts to slowly spin fate so as to reclaim a maiden world without heavy casualties

[dusk patrol]

Yeah something like that

[mossy mortar]

I think theres' gonna be an eldar ranger in the Rogue Trader crpg

[dusk patrol]

All out conflict going balls to the walls fighting hordes is a last resort for Eldar most of the time.

[celest dome]

I don't know, 4 Eldar (From all 3 Eldar faction) doing deep strikes into IoM lines fighting against untold hordes seem to be in their alley

[odd palm]

[mossy mortar]

Eldar would more likely be doing like a Dishonored style thing

sneaking around and castins pells and shit

[arctic talon]

That sort of fighting def doesn’t fit craftworld

[celest dome]

What about Drukhari ?

[dusk patrol]

Drukhari less so

[mossy mortar]

More like a devil may cry style fighting game

[dusk patrol]

They attack undefended settlements and dip out

[odd palm]

Is LOTR shadows of Mordor just an eldar manipulating Orks to kill each other so they can reclaim a world against a weakened foe?

[celest dome]

Or Ynnary (Which is the one that would work the most)

[odd palm]

[mossy mortar]

just jumping off the walls and flying around

[arctic talon]

Just do eldar corsairs lol

You have a lot of variety

[dusk patrol]

You could maybe do a neat pirate game with Corsairs yeah

[mossy mortar]

Eldar Exodites

so I can ride dragons around

[arctic talon]

Lol

[odd palm]

So Ark survival evolved XD

[dusk patrol]

No completely different

This time, we have pointy ears

[odd palm]

Ofc

[mossy mortar]

the best non-human Darktide spinoff would be Orktide

or greentide

[odd palm]

I meant Ark SE pointy ear mod

[mossy mortar]

Where you have your 4 boyz and as you level up you get bigger and greender

[dusk patrol]

Greentide I really think is likely for VT3

Or I'm hoping it will.

[mossy mortar]

And you can subclass into one of the weirdboyz like a flash git or mek

ANd you'd have randomized guns

[tired umbra]

I have been saying it forever. Fatshark game in AOS. Gloomtide.

[odd palm]

Greentide has the boyz pitted against a feral world mayhaps

[tired umbra]

The name is there already!

[celest dome]

If we make a game where we play as orks, then one of the Archetype/Character (I would prefer character on this one) has to be a Grots Killakan

[tired umbra]

Goblin hordes

Trolls

Mushrooms

[mossy mortar]

Greentide maybe could take something from the roguelikes

and when your boy dies it actually dies but you can grow another one that's similar

Or if it gets an arm blown off you can play without it for a while

[celest dome]

If they use the full Destruction alliance, we could even see Fimir (Fimirarch) and Ogre (Ogor)

[mossy mortar]

and pay a dok to sew one back on

or a mek to get a bionic one

[celest dome]

Would a multiplayer Rogue like work ?

[dusk patrol]

It could

[mossy mortar]

Every time your ork dies you lose exp, loot, or a body part

oh yeah there should be a snagga boy class where you can spawn grot and squig pets

[arctic talon]

There are multiplayer rogue lite games

[celest dome]

The 2 warhammer Tide game I want to see are:

• Dreadtide: Set around the Dreadfleet Game/book, with Tomb King/VCount/VCoast/Undead Skaven/Chaos Dwarf against character from the Empire, Sartosa/Pirate, High Elf, Araby and Hedda Bardinsdottir
• Dakkatide: Ork against anything, maybe Tyr set around the time Kryptman got the Ork to deal with the Tyr (Weirdboy, Mekboy, WarBoss, Killakan and Kommando Leader).

[mossy mortar]

You could also have a battle royale mode

with orks

just wander around with yoru squad killing enemies, or fighting with other orks

or both

[celest dome]

A PvP game about Ork would be fun

But I don't really want FS to be the one to do that

[dusk knot]

this makes me wish eternal crusade did better

I enjoyed the orks a lot in that game

[atomic pelican]

EC couldve done fine if they literally just did a simple team shooter instead of the weird mmo idea

[dusk knot]

I enjoyed the asymmetrical combat

but stuff like the eldar and paid weapons being overpowered killed it

[tall hinge]

I remember paying $60 for that monstrosity lol

Least care put into balance in a game that I had seen in a long time up to that point

[dusk knot]

I got it for free lmao

[tall hinge]

Yeah a while back before they made it F2P it was a full paid title. Also didn't have orks at launch iirc but they got added in really quick if not

That was the only thing that game had going for me by the time I was done with it; it was the only game where you could create and play your own ork

[dusk knot]

the orks were dumb fun

[opaque vessel]

oi lads

what was the school the inquisition and SoBs go to ?

[tall hinge]

I was excited about the co-op mode too vs. Tyranids but that mode was broken too and had no population playing it

[storm jungle]

Schola Progenium

aka just your regular IRL school

beatings and molding you into concrete walls included

[opaque vessel]

it is the schola progenium ? >_> really

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/ville-béton-gif-21500681

[storm jungle]

Yep

[celest dome]

The Inquisition doesn't really have a school

The Progenium has SoB, Commissar and the Scions

While Inqui are more of a apprenticeship

[somber citrus]

They usually get picked up from the schola, but an inquisitor can suprise adopt pretty much anyone anyone

[storm jungle]

Yeah the Schola is more or so another candy store for them for recruits

[earnest snow]

You can also disappear from the Schola

[short thicket]

The inquisition recruits from pretty much anywhere

[dusk patrol]

Yeah

They test for aptitude straight off the Black Ships

Its where Eisenhorn and Ravenor came from.

[earnest snow]

Been a while since I read Eisenhorn so i forgot where he got his recruitment done. Ik Ravenor is a different story

[dusk patrol]

The hammers are not ceremonial

[broken zenith]

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers were recruited from the Schola Progenium and certain families with a tradition of service to the Inquisition for example after they pass rigorous purity and incorruptibility tests before getting permitted to bear the Inquisitorial mark, providing security for the Inquisitorial fortresses and Black Ships throughout the Imperium such as Nemesis Tessera.

[dusk patrol]

You better pray he hits you with that and not the book.

[earnest snow]

Schola Progenium is top tier teaching. The school board really do care for the students!

[dusk patrol]

Unironically, it is a really good start if you had to pick one.

Lots of opportunities.

Still sucks but everything sucks.

[earnest snow]

I prefer the true and hearty way: beat your way to the top with a chain axe >:D

[plush mason]

lol

isnt the schola progenium only for the orphans of imperial heroes?

[dusk patrol]

Orphans of officers typically

Generally who died in battle

[broken zenith]

Yup

[dusk patrol]

It varies though.

Its sometimes a reward for particularly heroic regiments that get wiped out I believe.

[mossy mortar]

I think they say anyone in the adepta or guard officers

Many also go on into careers in the adepta

[dusk patrol]

Yeah, most of the examples we see are just for military stuff but its a pretty premier school.

Branches out to a lot of different things.

It doesn't go into stuff like the Navy though so that would be a separate thing.

I think its called the Schola Navis or something for the Navy

Something like that

[mossy mortar]

I think they mention Navy also recruiting from progenium in the FFG RPG books

There's probably also a separate naval academy

[dusk patrol]

Yeah I believe they can be pulled from there

[mossy mortar]

Run per segmentum

[dusk patrol]

There's an age gap where eventually their "role" is figured out

[mossy mortar]

Since it seems like that's how the Navy's organized

[earnest snow]

Meanwhile astartes fortress monasteries be like: "IF YOU DARE HAVE A BREAK OF SWEAT WHEN YOU ARRIVE you're going out the chimney."

[mossy mortar]

It probably depends on the chapter

A lot

[dusk patrol]

Most of them are brutal at the end of the day but it varies a lot yeah.

Imperial Fists are absurdly selective.

[mossy mortar]

The ones who recruit from death worlds probably do their best to make sure everyone selected survives

[dusk patrol]

Its like, 1/1000 aspirants make it or some shit.

[mossy mortar]

Since they've already proved themselves

[dusk patrol]

or 1/10000

[earnest snow]

It does vary. I'm just being a memelord

[dusk patrol]

No fun allowed here

[earnest snow]

No fun only war

[dusk patrol]

Serious stuff this Warhammer

[mossy mortar]

Probably you're also allowrd to join even if you don't get implants

Or your implants fail

Liek an actual monastic order

Kind of like how they had lay brothers and associated laborers in actual monastic orders

But then some are serfs

[celest dome]

You mean the Chapter Serfs ?

[mossy mortar]

Or slaves

[dusk patrol]

At the end of the day too, as long as they are genetically compatible, you can become a marine. They can cure a lot.

[mossy mortar]

Serfdom is different from being a brother

A serf is historically somewhere between a freeman and a slave

You're bound to the land

Or spaceship probably in 40k

But then being a brother is very different

[dusk patrol]

At least give these guys a sandwich smh

Serfs also vary by chapter though a lot.

[mossy mortar]

You have to take the same vows of poverty, obedience, chastity etc

[broken zenith]

On the other hand, all command cadre candidates are required to read Warmaster Slaydo's The Treatise on the Nature of Warfare 😌

[dusk patrol]

Some chapters they're treated as another member of the chapter essentially, with different roles but they have a lot of the same protections and the like.

[mossy mortar]

Healthier than the average American i bet

Lol

[dusk patrol]

Considering the average lifespan of Baal is like 30

[mossy mortar]

Whereas serfs can probably marry, have property, etc

Personal property at least, idk about real property

[broken zenith]

Cenobyte Servitors get to carry the relics :3

[mossy mortar]

There was the big debate historically about oblates - children given to monasteries by their parents

[earnest snow]

One thing I find respectable is people who fail the tests on the path are quite respected despite failing. And the fact they more than likely have shitty jobs o3o

[celest dome]

To be honest, the 3 I'd rather be serf for would be the Wolf, the Salamander and the Ultramarine

[meager zinc]

Id never want to be in any part of the imperium. I could only hope i could be in a peaceful area of the tau empire.

[gray mulch]

Chaos for life, the gods might be bastards, but they do care and they give you super powers if you do things they find funny

[tired umbra]

Nah they don't give a single shit about anyone

[meager zinc]

Yeah maybe the other choice would to get realllly deep into that Nurgle scene.

Its sounds like a party if you get down with it long enough

[dusk patrol]

It’s more just an abusive relationship

[gray mulch]

Yeah they do, only in an insane psychotic "we only care about you because you're funny" sort of way, but they do care

[dusk patrol]

Not really tbh

Nurgle kinda

[earnest snow]

I would be on the crone worlds collecting tears of isha then hiding them so the Eldar gotta do an Easter egg hunt.

[dusk patrol]

Tzeentch actively undermines his dudes

[broken zenith]

dunno arco-flagellants look like their having a fun time

[dusk patrol]

Khorne doesn’t give a fuck

[tired umbra]

They don't. They're storms of emotion and are just using anything they can get their hands on and squeezing any bit of juice out of them until they are no longer useful..

[dusk patrol]

And for Nurgle it’s a controlling “love”

[meager zinc]

Bro im just trying to work with what i got here.

[gray mulch]

You send enough blood and skulls his way and he gives enough fucks to give you super powers

[dusk patrol]

It’s just abuse

[gray mulch]

That's a kind of caring

[tired umbra]

And also makes you unable to feel anything but rage. You're constantly in pain and can't control yourself. Yeah sounds like a real good deal there bud

[dusk patrol]

I would say it’s worse than not caring

Abusive “love” is pretty fucked

I’d rather someone not care about me than be abusive towards me like that.

[broken zenith]

papa nurgle loves his children

[earnest snow]

Nurgle is barely on the caring list. Barely. He "cares" that he can repeatedly torment you and screw your mind up by infecting you with different diseases to the point you develop stockeholme syndrome and get jealous when it happens to other people.

[dusk patrol]

He makes you apathetic to everything else

[gray mulch]

Like, don't get me wrong, they're horrific monstrosities, but they just objectively do care, and they care enough to hand out super powers

[dusk patrol]

So you have to turn to him for the pain to go away

[tired umbra]

Lmao no they don't. They are giving people powers so they can cause more -chaos- and kill people.

That's the point

[meager zinc]

Id rather succumb to an abusive nasty nurgle party rock lifestyle than an abusive stiff collar no fun allowed imperial one

[broken zenith]

why would anyone even refuse papa nurgle's gifts, it's rude first of all smh

[gray mulch]

Yeah, that's a kind of caring, it's a super fucked up kind of caring, but they do care

[earnest snow]

Nurgle is cool. I love him. But I am not letting him put me in the stew pot for a round of stirring

[meager zinc]

You cant even dance at an imperial parade wtf is that man

[tired umbra]

Man you got a fucked up way of defining the word "care".

[earnest snow]

My fate is in the in the crone worlds making Easter egg hunts out of the tears of isha

[barren tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/abuelo-simpson-grandpa-abraham-the-simpsons-gif-7855872

[gray mulch]

I mean, not really? If you hate someone you care about them, even if you only care about putting them in a hole

[tired umbra]

Honestly. Smart move. I regret this whole discussion already

[earnest snow]

I care about my liver 🐴

[dusk patrol]

Not really interested in continuing this conversion yeah. It happens a lot and it’s boring everytime.

Just read a book on Nurgle

[earnest snow]

No no get back here and look at my tears of isha Easter egg hunt I got for the Eldar

[meager zinc]

I think nurgle would be cool with me poppin n locking during one of his processions

[dusk patrol]

It’s not fun, it’s not preferable to anything

Same with the rest of chaos

They make you think it will be until it’s too late

[tired umbra]

Chaos is the worst god damn deal in the history of anything. If ya'll can't see that you're kinda missing the whole point.

[meager zinc]

Pff maybe you're not fun, huh?

[broken zenith]

malal got cookies, just saying

:3

[barren tapir]

Then the question is: are those chocolate cookies?

[earnest snow]

At least I get to hide the tears of isha

[gray mulch]

They're all terrible deals, every single one, might as well go with the long shot of super powers

[earnest snow]

I'm having a blast

[dusk patrol]

Key word is “doesn’t seem”

[meager zinc]

I mean that's why id go as a refugee in the tau empire first. At least i got a chance at like some healthcare

[broken zenith]

blueberry cookie best

[tired umbra]

Yeah. That's the point. They trick you into accepting their shit until it's too late.

[dusk patrol]

It gives the appearance of being an escape

[barren tapir]

Sure, so i can take all the chocolate one right?

[broken zenith]

yup :3

[barren tapir]

Then we have a deal

[earnest snow]

Chaos is tricky. First you're wanting to change a policy. Then you're wanting to make change for the betterment of others. Then somehow down the line you want to kill a person because they're in the way of your progress to bettering everyone. Then you end up weird magical powers and demonic temptation. Now you're a tzneetch chaos spawn.

It's all downhill in 40k ladies and gentlemen

[gray mulch]

Why would they need to trick you? Chaos says, hey, all you need to do are these things that make our gods happy and they'll reward you. And they will, odds are that you'll die or mutate and explode or whatever, but you had a similar deal in the imperium and they had a lot less fun with it

[meager zinc]

Nah but if you embrace the suffering the chaos gods bestows upon you, you can achieve pure bliss

[tired umbra]

[meager zinc]

Resistance to the suffering is the wrong path

You gotta go into any chaos deal with a yolo attitude

[gray mulch]

sorry, mistyped that last sentence, *you likely got a similar end in the imperium and they had a lot less fun with it

[earnest snow]

Because chaos is a direct reflection of reality. Their followers, demons, and what not trick people all the time though at certain degrees depending on said chaos God. The warp is also a direct reflection as a whole, and i wish GW would go into non-chaos aligned warp entities and warp realms more.

[copper cliff]

Be me
Hive worker
No freedom or future
Forced to labor 20 hours a day
Fancy bird man offers escape
Create cult around bird man
Revolution
Kill hive city leadership
Control of hive is ours
Wait- wooooooah
Oh god...

[earnest snow]

The warp looks so beautiful even if it's deadly

[broken zenith]

getting an incinerator is when the real fun begins imo

[meager zinc]

Best thing to outthink a chaos deal is to not intend to accomplish the goal you set the deal on in the first place

Made a pact to become a master psyker? Fuck that start making race cars.

[copper cliff]

Reminds me of the guy who the FBI setup to be a terrorist but he like fucked it up along the way a bunch and still got prosecuted for it.

[broken zenith]

consecrated promethium never gets old, just saying 🔥

[gray mulch]

Yeah, chaos is pretty fucked up, but honestly, is it any more of a human meatgrinder than the imperium? at least chaos is honest about it, and again, super powers

[copper cliff]

Super powers for some

Unending torment for others

[broken zenith]

chaos got soulgrinders D:

[tired umbra]

And it's everything but honest

[copper cliff]

Poxwalkers certainly aren't FEELING the gifts of nurgle, but they aren't enjoying it either.

[meager zinc]

Orks are the biggest meatgrinder cuz there also fans of it

[broken zenith]

papworth organgrinder flashbacks of 2E WFB

[copper cliff]

Unending torment for most honestly

There's way more poxwalkers than plaguebearers

[broken zenith]

gotta love the chaos naming convention

[meager zinc]

If you arent part of the Ork meatgrinder, something is wrong with you on a fundemental level as an Ork

[broken zenith]

genestealer hybrid detected sus

[gray mulch]

The deal that chaos offers is honest, it says, do what makes the gods giggle and they'll reward you with power, and they follow through with that, the Imperium just says live and suffer and produce and when you die emps will hold onto your soul (maybe, we're still not 100% sure on that bit)

[broken zenith]

aint orky nuff

[copper cliff]

Except when they don't reward you with power for shits and giggles.

[gray mulch]

and you know what, yeah most people dont make the gods giggle, but its long odds either way so

[meager zinc]

Ork full stack developer? Psychically impossible

[copper cliff]

Most followers of Chaos Gods also aren't making a deal, they're being roped into it by those around them. Especially Nurgle followers. Nurgle will just dump diseases on a populace and make them suffer in horrifying agony until they give in and submit to him. Not exactly a fair trade. Its more like holding your soul hostage via your body.

[broken zenith]

y'all need mork (or gork?)

[meager zinc]

But if you do, boy you gotta party goin on

[broken zenith]

honestly chaos, as their naming convention suggests, aren't an ideal group to follow, that's why they are called Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned xD

[copper cliff]

Its a party in the sense that your senses are taken away from you and you're turned into a little dopamine puppet for nurgle

[broken zenith]

but at least one may get the chance to ascend into daemonhood

and shape a daemon world to one's liking

[meager zinc]

So your average gamer?

[broken zenith]

(depending on their allegience)

[copper cliff]

Yes :)

Ku'Gath players represent

[gray mulch]

I'm just saying that chaos isn't a worse deal than the imperium, and at least chaos isn't pretending to be the good guys

[tired umbra]

It is a worse deal.

[meager zinc]

And im just saying, if you do get caught up in some Chaos shizz, you dont have to make it so hard on yourself

[copper cliff]

They're both bad deals.

[tired umbra]

The Imperium is the worst shit. But Chaos is EVEN WORSE.

[broken zenith]

I wouldn't look for good guys in a wargame anyway, all sides see themselves justified

[gray mulch]

How? there are no good deals in 40k, it's kinda what makes 40k 40k

[copper cliff]

Well the whole point of 40k is everyone sucks.

[tired umbra]

Look dude. I've explained this to you like three times now. I ain't doing it again.

[copper cliff]

Its really subjective what you find worse

Like is being a poxwalker worse than being a servitor? Idk, its up to you. But we can all agree both are horrific

[meager zinc]

Look cuz sometimes it aint your fault if you get dunked on by a slaneesh demon invasion. You didn't know their schedule!

[broken zenith]

40k armies: you're either with me or against me (then again that goes for any war and associated wargames and their fluff)

[meager zinc]

So instead of whining and crying about your new warped and twisted genital-body, just start exploring it. Hell, you may like it better than your old one!

[copper cliff]

Fear in general is subjective so naturally what you fear happening to you more is also subjective. But a big point of 40k is that it's basically a ABCs of death on a universal and interdimensional scale.

[meager zinc]

Talk to some demonettes, get to know your local cultists, etc.

People always talk about chaos on the frontline

But what about chaos during downtime?

Thats where you can find your new self yall.

[gray mulch]

I get the feeling they are pretty big fans of work hard play hard

[copper cliff]

Slaanesh is about excess, so excesses of pain and pleasure. Its basically a non-stop torture orgy

Which isn't fun for everyone lol

[broken zenith]

real good guys are the dark eldar anyway imo

[copper cliff]

Especially if you get trapped in Slaanesh' realm where you're probably just gonna get tortured for all eternity

[broken zenith]

asdrubael vect is a proponent of peace

[meager zinc]

See now @copper cliff you can either focus on the torture OR the orgy. Its all about your mental priorities.

It doesnt have to be a "torture orgy". Thats your biases coming into play.

[earnest snow]

Heregitz, tyragitz, umiegitz, gitz, spiky gitz, sneaky gitz. They're all the same. They're just gitz

[broken zenith]

facts

reject modernity, return to ork

[tight crater]

por que no los dos?

[earnest snow]

Join a WAAAAGH now!

[broken zenith]

WAAAGH

[copper cliff]

orks orks orks orks orks orks orks orks orks orks orks orks

[gray mulch]

And like we are arguing about 40k where I would really say the correct answer is "try to figure out a way to annhilate your own soul so that you have the peace of oblivion, because that's the only peace that's possible"

[broken zenith]

see? two gitz having absolute fun right there

you can't get happier than an ork

[tight crater]

WAAAGH

[meager zinc]

Oi boyz, wez always WAAGH'n, but how come wez never ask WHHHYY?

[earnest snow]

Ere we go, Ere we go, ere we go!

[earnest snow]

Last time wez asked why wez got caught in uh paradox!

[meager zinc]

CUZ ANY GIT WHOZ SAYIN WHY GETZ KRUMP'D BY A BOI WHO AINT!

THEM HUMIES ALWAYS ASKIN WHY AND TRYIN TO USE THEIRZ BRAINY BITZ TO BEAT US! BUT ONCE WE BASH THEIRZ BRAINY BITS IN, THEY CAN'T DO NUTHIN!!!

[orchid acorn]

IIRC, no and yes. It's excess in general, so getting way too focused about your appearance, sexuality, sexual prowess, your skills, ect, all count as slaaneshi. Which explains the noise marines; it's music making taken to, er, excess.

Been a while since I read about this so I could be talking arse now ofc.

[snow mantle]

That's about as much as I know of it too - The excess Can be sex, drugs, and rock and roll - Or it could be the polished chrome anti-Khornate who's tuning their wrist rotation by .0003 mm to slip under some improbable armor coverage for the 40000th time today, and has been going for several months. The flavors are all over, just all dialed up to 18.

[broken zenith]

Daemon World Oliensis be like

or lets say daemon world person at that point D:

[snow mantle]

....I forgot that...Thing existed.

[broken zenith]

ye xD

[snow mantle]

Imagine what it must be like to have entire hordes of slaaneshi demons just being your idea of mites.
The actual hell, man? lmao

[broken zenith]

ikr lol

[worn cargo]

Is there lore on why the rejects get to wear nicer clothes?

[snow mantle]

The inquisition starts seeing they're more useful than just a bullet sponge

Your level up process is literally called "Trust."

They see you can handle yourself better than a shell-shocked feral in low gravity and let you get some actual gear.

You're now useful so they can place some resources in your hands and expect you to at least do some damage before you die.

[worn cargo]

Oh wow that is a really good reason thank you

[snow mantle]

Of course! 😄

[thorn stump]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/919723611948974170/1035004159805628476/who_are_they.PNG

does anyone know what chapter this is?
I saw it on a warhammer community post but it was too low res to see the name

[tiny raven]

https://tenor.com/view/trailer-park-boys-shocked-reading-big-eyes-glasses-gif-5188412

[thorn stump]

I'm hoping someone will recognize it's emblem atleast

[hidden agate]

Minotaurs?

I couldn't tell ya tbh.

[thorn stump]

Nah, they have a solid bronze color pallet

i'm curious to who they are because I actually kinda vibe with that emblem

[snow mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/tiny-text-cant-see-ken-jeong-gif-5957945

I've got nothin, friend. Doesn't ring a bell

[thorn stump]

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/iD7w5mFGLLz2SOh779n3ggnRtWE38IjYfoMRmfAwRlE/https/www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/SMCustomChapterTactics-Aug6-Poster32yhhs.jpg?width=933&height=675

This was the original image on the Warhammer Community post

I don't know why they didn't make it higher rez

[snow mantle]

WaIT

I HAVE IT

[snow mantle]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Void_Tridents

[thorn stump]

Oh shit

Thanks!

[snow mantle]

Happy to help

[tiny raven]

damn i just missed it

[thorn stump]

Just realized what that gif was when you weren't looking at it for one second

lol

[snow mantle]

did you also stumble into the fucking picture search table that apparently exists? I didn't even know that was a thing on the wiki.

granted I also never looked up chapters by sight before.

[tiny raven]

no I reverse image searched a cleaner image, you got the whole wiki link

[snow mantle]

Thanks to that pictorial list by chapter, lmao. Just scrolled til I saw the insignia and...still surprised it worked.

[tiny raven]

its a mer-blueberry

[viral mica]

"Walk softly and carry a big lasgun."
-That is all.
confident mic drop noises

[mossy mortar]

You're gomna have to be more specific because this happens a LOT

[copper cliff]

You're right but this specific guy was told by the fake terrorist FBI agent to go place and prime a bomb. He tossed the bomb where it was supposed to go but didn't even prime it. And also he was just generally fairly incompetent in the terrorism aspect. He just needed money cause he had recently been fired and the FBI agent was paying him to do all the stuff that would never really work.

[broken zenith]

There is the chance of the planet becoming something like Q'Sal from FFG Black Crusade too xD

[broken zenith]

reminds me of the Isstvanian Inquisitors

[atomic pelican]

Fuck Qsal, all my heretic homies HATE being change bolted

Or was it called bolt of tzeentch

All I remember is getting onetapped by it and eating corruption pts

[rose thorn]

How diverse are tau civilizations

[mossy mortar]

Id hardly call it a civilization

[atomic pelican]

Depends on the sphere. Most human auxillaries are in the inner spheres. Kept away from fronts of war to protect from vengeance killings. Other than that, fairly diverse? In one instance a water caste detective and their gue'vesa aid have to handle Vespid/Kroot relations in investigating a GSC problem

Which implies that theyre rather integrated

[rose thorn]

Huh nice

[mossy mortar]

Since Tau are limited to lightspeed communications or FTL couriers i would assume there's a fair amount of cultural drift due to their poor communications and slow ftl travel

[cerulean wagon]

actually they use a fair few on one of the fronts against the imperium for political mindgames

its neat

[atomic pelican]

Ahh ye

Another important thing to note is auxillaries can only reach a certain rank and also tend to only command other auxillaries

Iirc Voices of Experience says like, the highest rank a Gue'vesa soldier can reach is Sgt?

[short thicket]

so the chances of there being a human fire warrior is nill

[tall hinge]

As far as actually being recognized as a fire warrior, we've not seen examples of. I'd say most unlikely, but as far as being issued a pulse rifle and T'au field equipment (save for the armor), that still occurs for their gue'vesa units.

[atomic pelican]

Yeee p much

So theyre not officially fire caste but still get the infantry gear

[earnest snow]

Tau more like Towel

Idk too much on the tau other than I guess dawn of war. Even then I didn't play them as much since it wasn't my style

[broken zenith]

Each Caste of the Tau species is basically a sub-species on their own as they are biologically different from each other, and this biological difference is also further enforced through the rigid caste system as the breeding between the castes is strictly forbidden by the Ethereals. Tau were divided into the warring four castes with the Fire Caste being the most powerful before the Ethereals mysteriously appeared out of thin air as the fifth caste.

[final spruce]

Eugenism

[broken zenith]

Tau on their own are quite diverse as such, the client species further add to the diversity.

[earnest snow]

The ethereals can get yoinky'd I'm teaching avatar The last Airbender to the four castes

Though that is interesting. Essentially you have the four main castes for war, the ethereals being...weird then whatever else beneath?

[broken zenith]

Ethereals were basically the uniting force behind the four castes, and that is a matter of much debate in-universe.

Inquisition especially yearns to understand how the Ethereals cause such obedience. 3E Codex Tau speculated that it's either pheromone secretion or an unknown psychic effect.

Xenology cutting open an Ethereal to understand what makes the Ethereals unquestionable, Codex: Witch Hunters having scenario to capture an Ethereal to learn their secret etc.

O'Shovah, Farsight as the renegade Fire Caste Commander was another mystery as he broke away from the T'au Empire as the Farsight Enclaves once the Ethereals were killed during his expedition to Arthas Moloch and recovering the Dawn Blade.

[earnest snow]

Interesting. I wonder if there is anymore tau lore or if this is where it's currently at

[broken zenith]

Yup, and they are ruthlessly hunted down by the Witch Hunters too.
Gue'vesa had 3E CA rules by Andy Hoare on GW website as part of the Damocles Crusade and later frontier troops against the Imperium and then Warwick Kinrade of FW had Tau Auxiliaries army list during 4E in IA3 The Taros Campaign (as well as 6E with 2012 revised edition) with Gue'vesa as the Troops choice too comprising of the Taros PDF (as well as Mining Work Gang with an Ogryn as another Troops choice xD)

T'au Sept Dal'yth is known for its use of many T'au Auxiliaries too due to high number of Water Caste members.

[wicked kayak]

Which character is most likely to eat a bug.

[broken zenith]

marneus calgar

[earnest snow]

If anyone is gonna eat a tyranid it's perturabo after he comes out his room after 10k years. Man hasn't eaten

[broken zenith]

iron within
iron without

[earnest snow]

Tickle therein tickle thereout

[mossy mortar]

I think most average joes in the imperial live in pod and eat bugs

[earnest snow]

If the Imperium just trained their citizens to hunt and eat bugs then the tyranids would be dead by now

Smh

[broken zenith]

desire to know more intensifies

[earnest snow]

Nature favors the hungry. Take this to your stomach and nothing can take you down

[broken zenith]

the only good bug is a dead bug :I

[earnest snow]

It dies once you eat it

[barren tapir]

Who tell you it doesn't?

[little gust]

anyone remembers our liaisons from the Inquisitr? the npc's that frag up our vox channels
I know of only morrow, the techpriest lady.

[celest dome]

Morrow is the sergeant? The one from Armageddon ?

[barren tapir]

Yes, morrow is the sergeant, then we have the techpriest lady called hadron and then we also had zola, the explicator

[earnest snow]

Because tyranids eat the citizens and not the other way around

[celest dome]

Tyr aren't the only bug in the galaxy

heck they aren't even the only one that have miniatures

[rancid tide]

Always neat

I need a gif of an IG soldier field stripping a las gun

[mossy mortar]

Not enough prayers, machine spirit must be furious

[rancid tide]

Machine spirit was just feeling a little kinky 😏

Slaneesh be damned

[gusty fulcrum]

Thats my general view on the lasgun

I like how according to one pf the tabletop rpgs(can’t remember which book think its one from rogue trader) theres a planet where due to the sun or some other factor everything is monochrome varying shades of grey even the water and the hottest commodities are dyes and psychedelic drugs(cuz they cause you to see colors but are also illegal basicly for some smuggler play)

And its an agriworld

Its one of those that always stands oit in my mind for unusual planets in the imperium

Wonder what its like to come from a place like that and then be thrust into the galaxy where everything is colored

And probably have people think your an abhuman due to your monochromatic skin and hair

Or at worst a mutant

[gusty fulcrum]

Bugs,corpsetarch,corn and algea

If by average joe like a middle hiver maybe not a pod but very much a one room apartment with maybe a toilet if your lucky

[mossy mortar]

I think middle hivers have apartments and eat reconstituted grox strips

But there's very very few middle hivers

[gusty fulcrum]

Probly something like ancient apartment building sized rllms

[gusty fulcrum]

One of the last chancets decribes a bit

[mossy mortar]

PRobably they're old mansions that got converted to apartments

[gusty fulcrum]

Sry not last chancers gaunts ghosts

One of thier recruits is a miner

And they are about middle class

At least at the hive they were stationed

[mossy mortar]

I liked in one of the books how there was a hive quake and a middl ehive factory falls into the underhive

and they turn into like a tribe of violent savages

[gusty fulcrum]

Mind you middle class is like lower class for us

[mossy mortar]

I always assumed middle class in imperium is like victorian era middle class

Like maybe if you're doing well you have a live-in maid

[gusty fulcrum]

Id put it between that and modern lower class depending on tech level

Like low lower class

[mossy mortar]

Hm true it depends on tech level i bet

[gusty fulcrum]

Maybe nicer lower class if your hive isn’t complete messed up

[mossy mortar]

Like modern middle class doesn't have any servants but they have a lot of high tech labor savers

But the imperium definitely doesn't lack for manpower...

Like apparently lthat's how it works in places like India

If you want a servant you just go to a poorer neighborhood and offer old women money

[gusty fulcrum]

At least if you live on jusy an imperial world with no specific class you can have a ok chance of living about our quality of life

Going by commisar cain novels

[gusty fulcrum]

It is thier most valuable yet expendable resource

Well thats the nice thing about the imperium even though we have a general idea of what certain planets are suppose to be like in reality they are actually extremely varied

And anything you could think of has probably been done

In some form to some extent

[gusty fulcrum]

I remember reading a short novel were it was an agriworl kid bein sent into the gaurd and his home life didnt seem@to far off from a modern lower tech rural one

[mossy mortar]

Honestly each planet is so wildly different that you can do literally anything and it'll fit

There's straight stone age planets in the imperium

And then there's ones with flying cars and space stations

[gusty fulcrum]

I like agriworlds

I find them interesting

At least the ones that grow more unusual foodstuffs

Or grow it in odd/interesting ways

[tall hinge]

Blue corn for all!

[gusty fulcrum]

I wanna make an agriworld gaurd that specializes in chemical warfare due to their experience handling mass fertilizer and weedkillers pesticides etc

[gusty fulcrum]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NiBIDNHMQHc

Since were goin on about imperial worlds

[plush mason]

is there even a middle class in the imperium?

[short thicket]

Yes

[plush mason]

i wasnt expecting that

[final spruce]

Of course, nobody talks about them just like in real life

[arctic talon]

The middle class exists on a lot of planets

It also doesn’t exist on a lot of others

[plush mason]

makes sense

[arctic talon]

But you prolly won’t see a large middle class in a hive city because

hive cities are hell

[plush mason]

yeah

[arctic talon]

But on a civilized world or a feudal one

It’s more likely

[dusk patrol]

There’s no consistencies is the big point

You can have a paradise world which is beautiful, to a medieval world which feels straight out of Fantasy with some sci fi stuff, to a hive world like Atoma Prima

[short thicket]

No hive cities would still have a middle class

[dusk patrol]

It’s built to be what you want

[dusk patrol]

They would

Or some would at least

Probably literally in the middle of the Hive

[plush mason]

feudal is a bit iffy. middle class kinda existed and kinda didnt in much of europe's feudal period afaik

[arctic talon]

Feudal worlds in warhammer sort of range from

Actual medival age stuff

To like renaissance era

[dusk patrol]

Fuedal doesn’t always mean medieval yeah

[plush mason]

ah

i see

[arctic talon]

It’s just the imperium over generalizing

[dusk patrol]

It just means it’s like a lord and kings form of government

But typically, it’s depicted as medieval tech to maybe a bit above

But it can be “modern” 40k tech too

Like some Knight worlds

[plush mason]

knight worlds just sound insane. imagine being a serf living in a thatched roof hut and some 40 foot tall robot comes stomping by

[mossy mortar]

I mean the adepta

The adeptus terra in general get special protection legally too

Since usually the arbites specifically investigate crimes against the imperium or imperial servants

[mossy mortar]

I mean Dune has a feudal galactic civilization

[dusk patrol]

Yes?

[arctic talon]

It’s more so the feudal world classification

Means below irl modern day tech

[plush mason]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Adeptus_Terra

[dusk patrol]

Just talking in the context of 40k

People use feudal and medieval worlds interchangeably when there’s a distinction often, although it’s not always shown.

[plush mason]

i would not at all call the adeptus terra "middle class"

[mossy mortar]

Most of the adeptus terra are clerks and petty bureaucrats

Specifically the adeptus aministratum

which is usually shown as the largest of its branches

[plush mason]

so yeah only the lowest rungs of it could be seen as middle class. but given what i know about how said lower rungs live. they are just chattel like the rest

[mossy mortar]

It dependson how they're depcited

But it's supposed to be the universe's biggest bureaucracy

[plush mason]

endless miles of red tape

[mossy mortar]

They usually just show th elowest level paper pushers but following the theme of imperial rot, there's probably a massive useless web of middle managemenet which hugely outweighs the people who do anything

[plush mason]

maybe

[mossy mortar]

THe best part of the 40k setting is you can really pick whatever works for the story you want to tell and it can be true, at a particular time and place

Because the setting covers such an insanely huge scope of time and space

Whatever you say was probably true at some point

I just wanted to go for the theme where the people who do nothing live well while the people who do the work live terribly, as well as the whole Brazil style insane bureaucracy thing

[plush mason]

i mean "live well and do nothing"

is what the upper classes do

even today the middle class cant afford to do that

the middle class are the workers that make enough money to live comfortably with all basic needs meet

[gusty fulcrum]

Feudal worlds are some examples of their favorite kinds of worlds they have

They are advanced enough to train in modern concepts and weapons for the gaurd while also being fairly obediant loyal to their higher ups and generally religious

I guess the administratum loves them as the way worlds should be

Thier ignorance to the galaxy at large and by extension xenos and chaos is seen as a boon as well

Blessed are the ignorant after all

[gusty fulcrum]

I mean im sure they drew inspiration from brazil

[mossy mortar]

They work hard but do nothing productive - it's meant to be wasteful

[plush mason]

oh that is what you meent

[gusty fulcrum]

I love coming up with concepts in the setting cuzza this

[plush mason]

but "hard work" and "living well" are actually contradictory statements as living well is often defined as living easy

[gusty fulcrum]

Like for planets and people kinda deal

[plush mason]

yeah

[gusty fulcrum]

And can be again after all look at all the stuff thier pulling outta storage

Squats unsquated

The tyranid centaur dudes comin back

[arctic talon]

Zoats were back in lore during 6th

[gusty fulcrum]

Yeah zoats

But we didnt see them

[plush mason]

the worlds of the imperium range from utopian paradises to Darwinistic hellholes and everything inbetween

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[gusty fulcrum]

More hinted at

[arctic talon]

Y e p

[gusty fulcrum]

They dont even have to be worlds, neat agriworld concept i had is an astoriod belt thats being mined and as the astoriods are hollowed out the are being repurposed into aeroponic bays or habs that grow things like algea, fungi, edible molds etc that kinda just grow in masses floating in the center of the hollowed rocks they just kinda scrap bits off of

If your not carefull you might float into it and slowly sink in

Just for that bit of grimdark

[prime tapir]

40k is satiricial in its nature and intentionally grimdark.

Whenever there’s a ”happy” planet — there’s always catch. Whether that be comfortable lifestyles built on slaves labour or tyranids knocking out the neighbouring system.

[plush mason]

i like it

[gusty fulcrum]

Well one of the running jokes is planets are fine until plot happens to them

Caiphas cain being a good example of this

[plush mason]

is it really a joke when its true for like all fictional settings near about?

[gusty fulcrum]

I mean fair im also just paraphrasing

[plush mason]

i was also joking

[gusty fulcrum]

:p

[exotic mica]

Yeah like when Iax was a tranquil world where wounded soldiers were being treated and nurgle decimated it

It was happy, peaceful etc and then plot happened

[plush mason]

hell gladius prime is a prime example of just how badly plot can fuck up a world

[prime tapir]

Maybe a hot take but there’s not a single planet that could be described as utopian when it exists within the web of suffering that is the imperium.

Servitors being normalized is just such a fucked up concept in general. Imagine walking into a diner and being served space Goulasch by a decomposing body forcing binary through ruptured vocal cords.

Participating in a system directly or indirectly like the imperium can never be utopian IMO.

[gusty fulcrum]

Paradise worlds

[prime tapir]

They’re pleasureable, not utopian

[gusty fulcrum]

Disgustingly utopian until not

Depends

From which end

Your living on them from insome cases

[plush mason]

by utopian i mean a true utopia. meaning its only a utopia on the surface

[mossy mortar]

The really fancy servitors are just a brain hidden insid ea shiny metal body

[exotic mica]

Utopian simply means that everyone is happy and united. On worlds where everything looks and feels peaceful and everyone thinks they’re all safe and they have beings that do everything for them, it can be considered utopian.

[plush mason]

not an ideal or "actual" utopia

[mossy mortar]

I think they actually leave them as living corpses for aesthetice reasons lol

[gusty fulcrum]

Or basicly just a spine and nervous system in some cases

But those really skirt the line

[plush mason]

wow so its meaning is even more broad than i thought

[mossy mortar]

Boring farm world where there's nothing to do but pray and farm and do family stuff is probably a nice place

Until it inevitably gets invaded

[plush mason]

yeah

[mossy mortar]

I liked that planet in Abnett's Iron Snakes books

The boring one where it's still horse-drawn carriages

[exotic mica]

Yeah, a lot of things can be considered a utopia if it’s sufficiently united in the way everyone thinks and acts and it appears peaceful and stress free

Never mind how it was achieved

[mossy mortar]

And there's a handful of elites who have like bolt pistols and giant brass-bound geiger counters

And a little brass robot that writes down what you say

[gusty fulcrum]

Thats why paradise worlds by imperial standards are utopian

[prime tapir]

I get that, 🙂 but the pleasure world are reliant on servant castes — and if not they pay tithe or imports to support the tyranny of the greater imperium.

[mossy mortar]

Until it turns out it's actually an Eldar Maiden world and the eldar show up

[gusty fulcrum]

Cuz even the servants consider them great places to live

[gusty fulcrum]

Also this

Or a slannesh cult happens

Cuz all the rich dudes vacation there

[exotic mica]

Oh absolutely. But it can still be argued that it’s a utopian place because of the appearance of lack of pain, struggle etc and even the servants dare not argue.

[arctic talon]

Yeah ironically the servents on paradise worlds live pretty nice lives

[exotic mica]

Hell, especially them.

[arctic talon]

Unlike servents

[prime tapir]

Appeal for status as native fauna

[plush mason]

or a crazy cardinal pisses off the wrong people in the wider imperium

[arctic talon]

Literally anywhere else in the imperium

[prime tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/anchorman-60-60percent-60percent-of-the-time-it-works-every-time-gif-20673938

[mossy mortar]

Usually this is a segue into the "good times create soft men, soft men create hard times" moral in 40k stories. Where the local PDF is inexperienced and then likee Orks or something show up and start killing everyone

[exotic mica]

It ain’t much, but it’s honest work.

[gusty fulcrum]

Or genestealers cults

[plush mason]

yeah

[gusty fulcrum]

Oh and not to mention how genestealer cults can just like happen now with no genestealers involved

Cuzza some modified grain

[arctic talon]

Honestly the way that some worlds deal with it like Elysia is baits pirates into the system

[mossy mortar]

That's a little silly

[arctic talon]

And then sicks their pdf on them

[plush mason]

or a warp storm opens up and the world gets cut off for years if not centuries

[exotic mica]

All they gotta do now is sneak some modified dna in with their food

[arctic talon]

There’s a genestealer cult that’s spiking medical supplies

With the infection

[mossy mortar]

Yeah I think that's silly

[arctic talon]

Twisted helix

[gusty fulcrum]

Its cuz a cult modified some grain and mamaged to get at least one shipment off world

[plush mason]

oh fuck

[gusty fulcrum]

So its implied it got mixed in woth the rest of seeds sent to grow on planets

[plush mason]

that shit will never be found before its too late

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya thats what they did with some grain

[mossy mortar]

It's funny how per lore every little town in the imperum lves permanantly 15 minutes fsrom midnight

[prime tapir]

There’s like only a few million grains in there. They can’t infect us all

[mossy mortar]

oops rogue psyker! oops dark eldar raid! oops necron temple!

[plush mason]

ye

[mossy mortar]

oops tainted grain! oops evil book!

[plush mason]

oops ork rok from literal no where

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya theyve been ramping up the genestealer cults to be a more legitimate threat in an insidious way

[exotic mica]

Oops, ork waaaaagh followed by Eldar trying to warn us leading to war on two fronts!

[mossy mortar]

So naturally the only people even marginally aware of this (the inquisition) are also insane and destructive

[gusty fulcrum]

And nurgles new disease that can infect warp cores

[mossy mortar]

Like just jumping at shadows and purging people on a hair trigger

[gusty fulcrum]

All this fun stuff

Man id be down for a 40k colony sim

[mossy mortar]

And then stuff like literal witch hunts

[gusty fulcrum]

I know we got rimworld

[plush mason]

oops, the local magistrate said something the imperial governor didnt like so how the whole town is in lock down

[mossy mortar]

Nothing happens for so long people get suspicious and just start accusing their neighbors lol

[gusty fulcrum]

But itd be fun to see one centered in the actual 40k setting

[mossy mortar]

Turning into a years long holy war

[plush mason]

ye

[gusty fulcrum]

We can basicly make genestealer cults in rim now

And abhumans

[mossy mortar]

Authorities just let it happen because "well I guess it's good they're being suspcisiou we don't want to discourage it"

There was an earthquake, time to pogrom the mutant slums

[gusty fulcrum]

Imagine a genestealer cult game were your running a cult

And gotta spread it

[prime tapir]

Pragmatism and effective governance?

Who needs that when you can fix the issue by throwing poorly supplied manpower at it?

[exotic mica]

Want. Need even. I want to build a secret army of assassins hiding in plain sight as their friends, neighbors, bakers, barbers, everything.

[exotic mica]

Ah yes, the tried and true method

Throw more bodies at it

[mossy mortar]

I don't want to share the victory with those bastards in the department of the interior. Send in the guard, then we'll own the win

[prime tapir]

Shoot our own guardsmen to own the orks

[mossy mortar]

The secretary of the interior is getting ideas above his station. We need to freeze them out of th emeetings

[gusty fulcrum]

An ork colony sim from shroom to ork

So its got that element of something like a life simulation too

[exotic mica]

Ooh that’s a great idea too

Building a waaaagh from the very beginning

[mossy mortar]

I think someone from 4chan actually did a text based chapter master simulator

[prime tapir]

Yeah I distinctly remember that too

It’s kinda hilarious/sad when you think about what the guardsmen thrown into the meatgrinder could provide in value over a healthy lifespan in contrast to 30 seconds on a frontline.

They could probably cobble together the resources for another battle tank instead of bleeding out on Cadia.

It’s so horribly inefficient it just makes no sense

[mossy mortar]

I mean 40k is borderline post-scarcity for the most part

Energy is so abundant it's almost free

They only care about stripmining minerals because it's faster than the right way to do things

But they're so desperate at all times that they'll keep destroying planets to feed the war machine

And so they throw men at problems because they need them taken care of NOW before the problem gets worse

Or at least they think they do

Becuase it;s mostly run by idiots

[gusty fulcrum]

Read 15 hrs short story

[mossy mortar]

ANd even the smart people are trapped by the galaxy-spanning system that traps them in the consequences of the mistakes of their predecessors

[hollow basin]

No U are wrong the Astra militarum is never mistaken and u are a heretic i shall Kill u now

[mossy mortar]

That's why I hate the original character DO NOT STEAL of Cawl

He's one guy who just changes every single thing he touches and everyone goes along with it

Because he's a genius and special

[gusty fulcrum]

@prime tapir its about the average life expectancy of a imperial gaurds lifespan upon first deployment

[hollow basin]

[mossy mortar]

That's like the opposite of the prison that th eimperium is

[gusty fulcrum]

Who mentioned the movie brazil before?

15 hours is very much in that vein but gaurdmen and im not surprised if this one part with an administratum scribe might be a ref to it

Like with how the buereaucracy kinda screws everything over

[plush mason]

literally iirc. the average court case in the imperium can take centuries to close and the descendants of the accused have to answer for the final verdict

cause the lords of terra write 1000 new laws a day and no law in the past 10k years can be ignored or removed from the books

[gusty fulcrum]

Someones been watching ttsd

:p

But yes that is generally the truth of how it works

[plush mason]

lol

actually i got that bit of info from looking into the arbitus

[gusty fulcrum]

Many things concerning administration can be measured in generations

[plush mason]

ye

[gusty fulcrum]

But also people tend to forget as long as you deliver your tith and are generally loyal you can be pretty free to do what you want on the local level at any pace you feel

Its just mostly when you gotta deal with the administratum directly things slow

Granted it’s usually when things are screwed is when you need to deal with them i.e request military assistance

[plush mason]

ye

[gusty fulcrum]

Oh so that is more or less a direct quote then eh?

And not them just being cheeky

[plush mason]

yeah but its a direct quote from a lore video so i dont know the actual source sadly

but yeah afaik the 1k new laws a day thing is very much canon

and said laws are treated as holy scripture so they never get overruled or revoked

1 example of how fucked imperial law is that said lore video gave was "on some worlds it can be just as much a crime to be kidnapped as it is to kidnap someone"

cause even local laws on many worlds are just as fucked as imperial laws

[gusty fulcrum]

Clearly they were asking for it

Look at them

With thier fancy clothes

Well they are a pun/spoof of 3000ad (judge dredd)judges so makes sense

[plush mason]

but yeah. law in order in the imperium is a level of grim dark onto itself i found

its fucking wild and messed up as all hell

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya so is 3000ad law lol

[plush mason]

yes

[gusty fulcrum]

Once again though this is law at the imperial level

Not necessarily what you actually have locally

[plush mason]

yeah but some worlds are just as fucked

[gusty fulcrum]

Thankfully in most cases probly

Not the worlds fucked part

But the judges not being around

[plush mason]

yeah. at least i hope most local law and administration for most worlds isnt as fucked as the imperial levels are

[gusty fulcrum]

On most general non specific worlds i get the impression its pretty tame

[plush mason]

yeah

[gusty fulcrum]

Its when you get to worlds woth hogh tithes things start getting bad

Usually

Like mining worlds

Or factorums

And how old a world is as its implied they will regularly increase the tithes as a world ages and the resources run out or change

Or if they even happen to have a successful time and pay out a bit extra its not uncommon for some ass scribe to make that the new normal tithe

At the very least a world can theoretically provide two things(and i suppose a lesser third)

Manpower

And waste(processed into fertilizer for agriworlds)

Hives with not much to offer being an example of this

And perhaps to a lesser extant bodies for corpstarch,servoskulls, etc

[broken zenith]

Imperium of Man is spanning across 70,000 light years, one can find any type of planet to be fair.

[gusty fulcrum]

Earlier forementiod world where everything and everyone is monochrome

But arnt seen as abhumans

Kinda like how cadians got purple eyes

But you can bring dyes and colors from offworld and they stay colorfull

Even their water is grey

Like implied if you took it off world it would still be some kinda grey color

So imagine what rich people from that world probly look like

[plush mason]

that. is some true warp fuckery if ever i heard it

[gusty fulcrum]

Probly look something like this

And any color on thier skin would be heavy use of makeup

As they are descibed as having skin eyes and hair of varying greys

Psychedelics are very popular on thier world but they try to crackdown on it

[plush mason]

how did this world even end up like that?

[gusty fulcrum]

It just be like that

[plush mason]

a warp storm or something?

[gusty fulcrum]

And the people adapted

I think it might have to do with thier sun or thier atmosphere

But yeah everything is monochrome

Its from the rogue trader rpg

Cant recall the name

I think the part about the psychedelics was a hint at being able to do some smuggler style campaigns

Or just trade dyes and bright clothes for some kinda odd grey rice/grain

[arctic talon]

prolly dark age of technology bio engineering gone too far

might have started as a fashion trend

or a general experiment

and got out of hand rapidly

[gusty fulcrum]

Ill have to look through my book and find it when i got time/can find my books

Cant find anything online atm

For a listing of planets from the game

[gusty fulcrum]

And some worlds are just odd like that

[arctic talon]

yeah

but the people also being like monochrome

is a bit more odd lol

[gusty fulcrum]

Its cuz they adapted to the world essentially

So im assuming its how the light passes through the atmosphere

And has something like a bleaching effect

Which is why colors and dyes offworld are still well colorfull

[arctic talon]

prolly

There's also the fact that fenris is prolly some fucked up resort world from the DAOT

[gusty fulcrum]

But it must take awhile since the dont mention anything about colors fading

[arctic talon]

considering Big E like

says everything on it is straight out of mythology

[gusty fulcrum]

And other then the unusual monochromatic colors they are still fully human

[gusty fulcrum]

Yes an exercise in ancient myth brought to life

Something along those lines

The way he words it there quite a few worlds like that

[arctic talon]

I'm not suprised

tbh

[gusty fulcrum]

Wouldnt be surprised if a good handfull of the primarchs homeworlds are an example of this even if not commented on

[arctic talon]

we do know Medusa was a mining world

due to the Telstarax

[gusty fulcrum]

They also dont really get into abhuman lore either

Which funny enough fenrisians argueably are due to gene tampering

Even if superficially (pure)human

So we dont really know how much are the result of actual adaptations vs gene tampering

Or more likely given the timespans both

[broken zenith]

Savlar my fav planet 😌

[gusty fulcrum]

Is it cuz they get to loot what they want?

:p

[broken zenith]

nitro-chem inhalers

[mossy mortar]

It's like how the growth of Federal laws in America has reached the point where you could find essentially anyone guilty of a federal crime if you look hard enough at their lives

[mossy mortar]

I feel like that one is a Judge Dredd reference

[broken zenith]

I AM THE LAW

[plush mason]

literally. i was actually shocked at how similar the laws in the imperium are to the laws in america. in terms of the relation between the federa and state level of laws

[plush mason]

yeah the whole of the adeptus arbitus is one big Judge Dredd spoof

[arctic talon]

Ngl one of the funniest like scenes in a book

Is when an arbites says someone has broken some absurd law

[broken zenith]

innocence proves nothing :I

[arctic talon]

And then just says he doesn’t care since outside of that

The person hasn’t caused any harm

It was about having a secondary source of income while working in the administratum

[mossy mortar]

In America lying to a federal agent is a felony, punishable by 5 years in prison. But the feds can lie to you however they like

[plush mason]

wait. enforcement of some laws is discretionary for the arbites? wtf that makes them even more Americanesque

[mossy mortar]

The FBI was created as essentially a political goon squad and was run to put down catholics, blacks, and other undesirables

[arctic talon]

Yeah it’s very intentional imo

[broken zenith]

everybody's gangsta until the precinct fortress gates start opening

for real tho, arbites are badass, they were the last bastion to stand against the genestealer uprising during Ichar IV until Inquisitor Agmar arrived

not to mention plague zombies, an entire planet of billions vs arbites

[plush mason]

not at all. they where first founded to combat a very new type of crime at the time. inter state crimes. the advent of the car made it possible for criminals to cross state lines to commit their offences so a new federal body was needed to investigate and prosecute said crimes as no state as authority to police another in the union

[arctic talon]

I love arbite lore tbh

As much as they are judge dread rip offs

They have some intresting lore around them

[mossy mortar]

You mever heard of J Edgar Hoover?

[broken zenith]

ikr 😍

jes goodwin minis were also quite solid

[mossy mortar]

There were many competing attempts at a federal police. Hoover's FBI was a wannabe secret police

[plush mason]

yeah he was their first director and he did some very fucked up shit. but only later on as at first he had to tow a very hard line cause there was a lot of push back on the idea of the FBI

[gusty fulcrum]

Yes they have always still had thier own distinct flavour despite being spoofs like ive always liked their use of cybermastiffs

[mossy mortar]

And was hideously ineffectual

[broken zenith]

they are absolute legends

[gusty fulcrum]

Id say they also were more prevalent as part of the inquisitor faction back in the day

[plush mason]

but once the FBI got established he went gung-ho crazy with his personal bigotry

[mossy mortar]

Hoover kept his enemies lists from the very founding of the FBI

[plush mason]

yeah but he couldnt act on it for a long time

[broken zenith]

Inq54 Judge mini was awesome

[mossy mortar]

He was a politician first and policeman last

[gusty fulcrum]

Would be neat to see a game revolved around arbites

Maybe a bit of some rpg elements

[plush mason]

ofc. hell the FBI isnt even a police force itself and never was. its an investigative force

[gusty fulcrum]

Like playing a street arbite vs a detective (forget what they call them)

[slender orchid]

One of the VERY first things the FBI did was combat the KKK, killing and arresting members so.... You are on some anti-government agenda

[arctic talon]

Ironically there’s usually only 1 actual arbite on the planet

[gusty fulcrum]

And have different approaches to your work

[arctic talon]

The rest are usually enforcers

[broken zenith]

wish Adeptus Arbites would return as a KT with plastic kit, their 1E-3E rules were fun

[arctic talon]

There’s way more arbites on like

[gusty fulcrum]

Kinda like interplanetary sheriff

[arctic talon]

Hive worlds tho

Yeah

[plush mason]

yeah and the bank robbers

[storm jungle]

Very possible with what Kill Team is doing atm

like we got navy breachers for no reason at all

which is great

[gusty fulcrum]

They basicly make sure local law is passable by imperial standards id imagine

[broken zenith]

I always loved how andy hoare was like "ye go proxy inquisitorial stormtroopers as arbites"

[plush mason]

afaik the arbites rarely bother with local law. they leave that to the enforcers mostly

[broken zenith]

with free shotgun, which was inferior to hellgun anyway

[mossy mortar]

I think you're confusing the FBI and Superman

[gusty fulcrum]

And usually one main base in a given sector/system I believe as well

[storm jungle]

Arbites basically almost never interfere unless something pokes the running of a planet

it kinda words since their entire reason for existence is being a parody on police brutality

[plush mason]

LOL. that superman campaign was supported in part by the FBI bro

[mossy mortar]

I think usually they leave all to local law enforcement except in places where things have gotten so bad that responsibility is turned over to the Arbites. I say this so that they can play Judge Dredd in hive cities

[gusty fulcrum]

Well they are basicly in a similar vein to the ordo hereticus specialized in dealing with rebellious activities

[storm jungle]

Kinda

Arbites will gun down entire crowds of rioters if need be, they dont really care

[arctic talon]

^

[storm jungle]

Again, police brutality parody

[arctic talon]

They usually are around to make sure tithes get paid

[broken zenith]

Adeptus Arbites make sure that the planetary governor doesn't go wrong, that's why they are deliberately better equipped than the Guardsmen and PDF, Precinct Fortress is basically the last bulwark against a Chaos, Genestealer or anti-Imperium rebellion, rogue Planetary Governors and PDFs always target the Precinct Fortresses first.

[arctic talon]

And nothing goes wrong

[storm jungle]

they will do anything modern cops are doing atm

[arctic talon]

They’re also absurdly loyal

Which is another good thing for the imperium

[gusty fulcrum]

Was gonna say but more specifically rebellion and planet wide riots then outright heresy:p

Like destroying the world level riots

[storm jungle]

Again kind of

[broken zenith]

Ordo Hereticus does also request the aid of the Arbites too to round up known criminals and for genetic purity checks, that was why Andy Hoare, Pete Haines and Graham McNeill allowed proxying Inquisitorial Stormtroopers as Arbites.

[storm jungle]

I forgot which RPG book it was but there was an excerpt where an arbites beats a person to death because they threw a rock at an Adepta worker

[gray mulch]

the Arbites are there to make sure that if the workers do something stupid like strike because they're forced to work 14 hours a day, there's someone there to show them the business end of a shock maul

[plush mason]

is all acts of treason considered heresy by the imperium?