rings of power is just "funi lotr happenings"
#40k-lore-chat
wind flicker
plush mason
according to my friend that has actually watched it. Sauron is almost a father figure to the orcs
which is just so so so so wrong
mossy mortar
wind flicker
give elrond longer hair
mossy mortar
wind flicker
galadriel :)
spark relic
according to my friend that has actually watched it. Sauron is almost a father f...
Pretty sure they haven't confirmed whether he is Sauron or not
He got pretty pissed off when someone called him that so idk
plush mason
are those dwarves
plush mason
oh i misread durin as during lol
spark relic
It's a big time jump backward
wind flicker
durin :)
plush mason
ok so. why does the lady dwarf not have a beard?
spark relic
Durin my beloved 😍
spark relic
ok so. why does the lady dwarf not have a beard?
Cause it's just rumour that they do
plush mason
.................
spark relic
Female dwarfs apparently never leave the holds so people just assumed they also had beards
wind flicker
best retcon
spark relic
It could also be because Amazon didn't want to give them any for "reasons"
plush mason
yeah the later
wind flicker
more work for the cgi slaves
plush mason
amazon didnt want to deal with the salt a bearded women would have generated from the peanut gallery
spark relic
Lore accurate? Nah I don't think so
Said the Amazon execs
plush mason
yup
wind flicker
bearded dwarves is lazy SD for fantasy tbh
plush mason
Tolkien literally started it lol
wind flicker
like its interesting but the real chad move is to give them chest hair
shadow plover
hairy titties yeah!
plush mason
"is varric defined by his chest hair and not his wit?" most DA player- yes
shadow plover
watching the 5th episode of Rings of Power and honestly Durin is so great
wind flicker
durin and wife are my faves ye
wind flicker
its refreshing seeing dwarves not being horribly written and annoying
broken bridge
plush mason
wtf these things are real?
i thought he was just an OC from the TTS serise
oh shit. Fyodor is the one that coined "a plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time"
worn cargo
i thought he was just an OC from the TTS serise
I think we all thought a lot of TTS stuff was OC but surprisingly wasn’t
plush mason
lmao
worn cargo
I don’t care who says what, magnus the red in TTS is canon in 40k and everyone who disagrees is a heretic.
past steeple
i still cant belive they let the goat on the couch
spark relic
Flak is pretty normal for guard
Especially tank and artillery regiments
As well as the airforce/Aeronautica imperialis
hushed kayak
funny enough. flak armour in the 40k setting, doesn’t provide much.
plush mason
hell flak armor irl didnt provide much
ballistic nylon wasnt all that great
it could stop shrapnel and buckshot so long as the shotgun wasnt to close but anything else would just rip right thru it
the guardsman's armor almost looks like interceptor armor to me
barren tapir
Flak is pretty normal for guard
Flak is stated to be the standard for the guard
But guard using flak is just the result of the times of when WH40K started, at the time flak was the body armour most used, and that is why we have it as standard for the guard, when even in reality it is pretty shit, also the guard images we have clearly show that it isn't actual flak, and more about a light version of carapace, but nomenclature remained
plush mason
40k started in the 80s right?
barren tapir
1987 yes
plush mason
Kevlar was invented in 1965 and the first Kevlar vest was made in 1976
afaik flak armor had already been phased out of most western militaries by 1987
so its likely not a times thing and more a "flak sounds cool and shows how cheap and expendable the rank and file are"
barren tapir
There is a difference between the first time something is made to when it get put in mass use
final spruce
Lets remember that 40k was written by nerds with no military or medical background hence the ludicrous choices when it comes to weaponry and armoury
barren tapir
Unless you see all the nice production methods that we hear all day these days already put in production the same day
Nam war ended just 12 years before WH40K get released, and what was the body armour most used there?
Of course some british guy would think that flak is the best
plush mason
best? not really cause afaik the guard where always about being cheap fodder
shadow plover
Brits have had it pretty rough when it comes to military equipment
plush mason
true
barren tapir
best? not really cause afaik the guard where always about being cheap fodder
That is a meme, guard is expected to be the best that a world can offer, both in gear and in personnel
plush mason
their government doesnt pour and ungodly amount of its annual budget into the military like the US does lol
plush mason
That is a meme, guard is expected to be the best that a world can offer, both in...
that doesnt say much given the state of most worlds in the imperium
barren tapir
that doesnt say much given the state of most worlds in the imperium
The majority of the worlds are around our current level of tech
Civilised worlds
plush mason
yeah at our current level. and exist some 30 odd k years into the future
barren tapir
And then hive world would also give an huge amount of personnel, and gear, and they are industrial might in their own
plush mason
in fact if flak is the best armor they can mass produce. they are behind us in some levels
barren tapir
Not the best they can, the best that is considered for the use the guard has to do, we also have regiments fully equipped with carapace, but depend on their role
plush mason
yeah. light weight cheap armor that is decent
honestly perfect for outfitting an army of trillions
barren tapir
Not the best they can, the best that is considered for the use the guard has to ...
👆🏻
plush mason
if anything what 40k got from its times was the tactics of the guard
most are just flat out cold war combined arms tactics right out of the red scare
masses of tanks mechanized and non mechanized infantry artillery and air support
hell the chimera is literally just a soviet BMP
like at least some of the founders of 40k had to be military hobbyists
mossy mortar
afaik flak armor had already been phased out of most western militaries by 1987
no, not really
the first body armor capable of stopping rifle rounds issued to military is probably Ranger Body Armor from 1993
And even there it was very limited issue
US Army had Interceptor system in 2000 but again it was not at all widely available until mid 2000s and that's because of an active war
Before that all of the body armor would not reliably stop a bullet out of anything bigger than a pistol. But the majortiy of casualties in most wars were from explosive fragments
"Flak" is not a modern term, it refers to the early ballistic nylon vests worn by bomber crews. It was probably chosen becasue it sounds good
Even now in 2022, I wonder what percent of soldiers outside the US get any kind of rifle-class body armor
cerulean wagon
its because it was for bomber crews to defend against flak guns
its an english abbreviation of the german word for anti air cannon
mossy mortar
Before 90s you had specialist armor made of steel plate but it was never widely issued because of weight.
I mean calling guard armor "flak" was because it sounds cool but not too strong
Everyone knows what a flak jacket is
despite it being an outdated term
cerulean wagon
its also because "flak" jackets were a thing at the time
like in vietnam
so they called it flak because its what they knew of as modern gear
mossy mortar
Nah they probably called it that because it sounds cool
There's no real catchy name for body armor after that era
tiny raven
nothing is cool in the army
mossy mortar
I guess kevlar but that's too material dependent
cerulean wagon
dude its literally called flak armour because its flak armour 
mossy mortar
nothing is cool in the army
How come fake tactical stuff is current fashion trend then?
mossy mortar
dude its literally called flak armour because its flak armour <a:AmeliaTopKekA:8...
Nah in-game it's actually much better than IRL flak jackets
tiny raven
cuz its not in the army 
mossy mortar
It stops bullets
cerulean wagon
even in lore its better at stopping exlosive shrapnel than it is at stopping bullets
mossy mortar
But it can actually stop bullets. Flak jackets can't
cerulean wagon
Nah in-game it's actually much better than IRL flak jackets
ye cause its the future
scifi flak tech
mossy mortar
excatly
cerulean wagon
its still a flak jacket tho
mossy mortar
by modern standards it's probably comparable to the current state of the art
if not superior
by being lighter
cerulean wagon
that shit didnt exist in the 80s, so they just went "well flak is whats currently in use" without knowing anything
its still flak
barren tapir
Falk jacket can stop some low power bullet, later models because they got extra plating
But flak jacket was never meant to protect from bullets
mossy mortar
It stops I believe 1/3 of shots after all
barren tapir
And that is exactly how it is in WH40K
cerulean wagon
autoguns are piss in the setting
mossy mortar
so it stops rifle bullets
Yes but by modern standards they are as good or superior to modern rifle
cerulean wagon
it cant stop a lasbolt, which is considered weak in the scale of 40k
cerulean wagon
Yes but by modern standards they are as good or superior to modern rifle
we arent going on modern standards
mossy mortar
we arent going on modern standards
People were immediatley above going on about modern standards
barren tapir
Flak cannot stop autogun nor lasguns... That is carapace
mossy mortar
S3 AP0
barren tapir
It is meant to provide defence against low-velocity, dispersed damage, such as explosions, shrapnel and ricochet material, rather than to protect against a direct impact, in which case the armour's protection is almost negligible.
mossy mortar
Flak armor is 5+ save
cerulean wagon
1/3 chance to die to anything even autoguns
mossy mortar
Probably means that if it hits the chest plate it will stop a rifle round
1/3 is pretty good
cerulean wagon
to not die sorey
mossy mortar
it's better than 0/3
cerulean wagon
also thats tt which isnt lore accurate
barren tapir
Flak armor is 5+ save
This is just gameplay balance lol, i mean, 6 is always a success, there is no reason to make the save a 6+ i think
Unless for base value when you stack buffs
mossy mortar
If it didn't do anything to shooting then you wouldn't model it at all
cerulean wagon
lore and style
mossy mortar
Lore changes to suit the plot
cerulean wagon
yes, which then changes tt and models
tt and models are their main selling point, but have the least impact on lore
mossy mortar
Thus really it depends on if you want the guard character to be cannon fodder or the elite of human military
And of course lore swings both ways on this
cerulean wagon
cause if you want to use TT as lore accurate you have to run it that lasguns can kill anything in existence
including titans
mossy mortar
Enough lasguns, maybe
cerulean wagon
not even enough lasguns, for tt atm lasguns ignore tougness on a hit of a 6 and autowound
meaning a lasgun is currently deadlier than a bolter
cerulean wagon
which are outdated
cerulean wagon
and retconned
mossy mortar
as we know, in 40k the older it is the better it is
cerulean wagon
idc if they are better, they still arent lore accurate
mossy mortar
Yes well that is the crimes of the current administration
woven sandal
This is just gameplay balance lol, i mean, 6 is always a success, there is no re...
A 6+ save exists. It's better than no save.
As in, you get to roll one more die to fuck up that shot.
cerulean wagon
i dont even play tt so i wouldnt know the difference, im just here to remind people TT is not representative of lore
barren tapir
A 6+ save exists. It's better than no save.
Yeah, but it is just to say that the model have a save, otherwise it wouldn't even have the chance to ignore it
cerulean wagon
its a board game designed for combat balance
woven sandal
its a board game designed for combat balance
Gameplay feats don't count.
barren tapir
Can anyone tell me how the stats of galvanic rifles compare to bolters?
cerulean wagon
Can anyone tell me how the stats of galvanic rifles compare to bolters?
longer range, better pen and strength, but negitive if fired on the move
barren tapir
longer range, better pen and strength, but negitive if fired on the move
Eh, so close by to the lore for them, noice
cerulean wagon
bolters are currently kinda dogshit on tabletop atm
woven sandal
Unless there's a lore source to back it up gameplay stuff should be considered at most a vague guide to how things stack up power level wise, and even then a lot of genres totally ignore lore power levels to achieve balance.
barren tapir
bolters are currently kinda dogshit on tabletop atm <a:AmeliaTopKekA:82760701872...
Good, they are a dogshit weapons all around, so it is just right they suck on TT too
cerulean wagon
lore wise they are fine
but atm they are lasguns but with 1 more strength and no autowound
barren tapir
GYROJET Skele!! GYROJET!
woven sandal
What is the problem with that?
mossy mortar
Yeah IRL they would be great
barren tapir
The fact that gyrojet ammo weren't really great... But was more a meme of when we had tons of discussions about why bolters are awful weapons by a design POV in the old days
mossy mortar
They justify the complexity pretty good
mossy mortar
most likely a bolt has a pretty decent propellant charge for short range impulse, and t hen a rocket motor
woven sandal
It literally does.
mossy mortar
This would reduce recoil for something like low gravity
woven sandal
That's why it has enough recoil to break arms.
mossy mortar
IRL gyroget you could stop the bullet if you put something in the front because it can't get up to speed in very short range
cerulean wagon
it also cant hit targets accuratley at all
woven sandal
Wasn't that also a consequence of the low muzzle velocity?
cerulean wagon
they were a fun gimmic gun that were sold as sporting rifles
cerulean wagon
Wasn't that also a consequence of the low muzzle velocity?
and a lack of rifling as ot has to be smoothbore otherwise the rocket fucks it
theyre interesting but inefficient af
mossy mortar
Also in the future tech version you could have the warhead detonate the unused propellant as well for additional explosive
well, deflagrate technically
woven sandal
Yeah. That's why we nobody is using them IRL. Just like we also don't use flechette/fin stabilized rounds. rounds
barren tapir
I mean, people tried to justify WH40K bolt as two stages gyrojets, which have enough starter charge to behave like a normal bullet early on and then start with the rocket, but that is BS, since that would mean that the bullet is mostly just propellant and nothing else pretty much
mossy mortar
Well those are used
cerulean wagon
Yeah. That's why we nobody is using them IRL. Just like we also don't use fleche...
yup, but rule of cool
wind flicker
Yeah. That's why we nobody is using them IRL. Just like we also don't use fleche...
We use sabot rounds all the time
mossy mortar
APDSFS autocannon rounds are a thing
cerulean wagon
anyone using irl to justify or argue against 40k bits is missing the point
woven sandal
Not in infantry applications.
cerulean wagon
We use sabot rounds all the time
they mean in man sized arms id imagine
wind flicker
Infantry have spindles, it's just used for armor
mossy mortar
woven sandal
Anything over .50 cal is not infantry. Even .50 cal is pushing it, but somebody has used an M2 as a heavy machine gun.
woven sandal
https://www.nammo.com/product/our-products/ammunition/medium-caliber-ammunition/...
I don't think people make 30x173 rifles. For hopefully obvious reasons.
mossy mortar
Dunno the finns had that 20mm rifle
wind flicker
300mm handheld rifle
mossy mortar
woven sandal
Dunno the finns had that 20mm rifle
20mm is a lot smaller than 30mm.
barren tapir
Indeed, by at least 10 mm i say
plush mason
lmao
plush mason
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39
wasnt the british anti material sniper rifle the same caliber?
btw
what exactly are krak grenades?
cerulean wagon
anti tank grenades
plush mason
so shape charge grenades?
cerulean wagon
mossy mortar
Originally they had some sort of technobabble about negative pressure implosions
cerulean wagon
its 40k ive never bothered to check
plush mason
ye its a shaped charge
and a sticky grenade at that
so. are they thrown or does some poor sod have to run up and place them on the tank/bunker?
cerulean wagon
krak grenades are just forbidden almonds
cerulean wagon
so. are they thrown or does some poor sod have to run up and place them on the t...
both
plush mason
lmao
i sure as hell hope the adhesive verison is better than the irl one was
that one was literally just a grenade covered in glue
im sure everyone can imagine how badly that can go wrong
crisp heath
specially if it gets to your sticky fingers
quick jackal
Solothurn rifle
For hunting tanks
Nobody really uses these anymore though because arms manufacturers don't make money if you take out light skinned vehicles with something costing less than $50,000
Well, and they don't work on tanks anymore.
real stone
so. are they thrown or does some poor sod have to run up and place them on the t...
Whatever is needed for the plot.
More seriously though, I don't see how a shaped charge could be effective when it's just thrown at something, you need to face it the right direction
So somebody'd probably have to charge the tank
Or throw a ton of them
that works too
plush mason
it says many of the are magnetic
so maybe its some kind of electromagnet that is armed mid flight so it instantly latches on
quick jackal
Unless it's an absurdly strong magnet that doesn't really work.
plush mason
ummmm
mossy mortar
More seriously though, I don't see how a shaped charge could be effective when i...
Krak grenades are designed to pierce armoured targets by means of a concentrated implosive charge. Although a Krak grenade can easily kill a man, its contained blast makes it less useful than Frag grenades for Underhive fighting. However, it is very effective at destroying hard targets, building structures, and for blasting into defended holes.
It's not a shaped charge
No idea where that wiki description is from
That description is from necromunda
quick jackal
Yea, krak grenades and missiles are described as causing an implosion. Not sure how exactly that is supposed to work.
Micro warp tear?
quick jackal
Maybe it's something like cavitation under water
quick jackal
So, it explodes with a quick flash of insane heat that creates plasma, then the cavity left behind in the atmosphere implodes
mossy mortar
Micro null zone is created which has a matter imposive effect
plush mason
warp fuckery
mossy mortar
Or grav fuckery
quick jackal
I think there are actual grav and warp grenades
plush mason
yeah
quick jackal
Yea, krak grenades are kind of mass manufactured trash that really should just be shape charges
plush mason
ye
mossy mortar
If you're losing now, pull the pin and maybe things will look better later
quick jackal
I think if someone fires a bunch of bullets into the stasis field they will stop in front of you, but still hit you when the field drops.
So you'll just die later
plush mason
hell even the shape of them looks like a shaped charge casing
mossy mortar
It doesn't say how permeable thr stasis field is
But it's more likely they just hit an invisible wall of time
And fall down
plush mason
cause warp fuckery
mossy mortar
It is the will of the omnissiah
plush mason
same thing
quick jackal
The only example I can think of is in Battlefleet Gothic Aramada, you can drop stasis fields. They hold enemy ships and also trap any shots that pass through them in stasis. When the field drops everything that went into it resolves as though it all happened at the same time.
plush mason
ye
quick jackal
I think in Inquisitor: Martyr the psyker can also make a stasis bubble that slows enemy shots down
mossy mortar
Foul witchery
plush mason
she is a blood cult assassin
mossy mortar
Then why does she have psyker abilities
plush mason
her armor
quick jackal
It's technology
crisp heath
magitech
plush mason
its stupid rare and secret xeno tech
mossy mortar
Oh a blessed relic of humanitie's ingenuity and genius
Good
Oh a blasphemous xenos abomination that corrupts the laws of nature
Bad
plush mason
well the inquisition has sanctioned its use so
that and the xenos that made it are long long dead
plush mason
unknown
mossy mortar
Exactly
quick jackal
But I just looked it up, it is the Psyker who can make stasis bubbles, the Assassin gets an armor that lets her move at extreme speed for a short time, like Sandevistan style.
plush mason
ah right
plush mason
Oh a blasphemous xenos abomination that corrupts the laws of nature
the plot of that game is filled with such a massive heresy that its a wonder the whole sector wasnt just purged lol
mossy mortar
I shudder to hear of it
That my colleagues would sink so low
Not colleagues sorry I meant betters in the inquisition
plush mason
it involves a rogue inquisitor lord. fabious bile. and van dire
oh and a machine spirit that has been fused to the soul of a devout blank
plush mason
it was done to make the ship's machine spirit 100% uncorruptable
mossy mortar
I always felt blanks should be portrayed as soulless sociopaths
Instead of sympathetic unfortunates
They're supposed to be walking abominations
plush mason
oh none of this compares the main focus of the main plot tho. the alpha subject
a super blank with the powers of a psyker
quick jackal
I thought the story was cool
plush mason
literally a hybrid of the 2
yeah honestly it was really cool
but the utter hubris that went into the alpha subject's creation was insane when you think about it
mossy mortar
Burn them all and let thr Emperor sort it out
plush mason
thats just it. she was made to be a second emperor basically
rose thorn
Do sisters of battle have last names ?
cerulean wagon
Do sisters of battle have last names ?
uh yeah, whatever their family name is
their follow the local culture of their world
rose thorn
Ahhh
mossy mortar
If it's like nuns then a lot would change their names and abandon the family names
Taking saint names instead
I don't think they arw the brides of the emperor tho
rose thorn
What death cult assassins are different form the assassinorum ?
mossy mortar
Assasinorum is an official institution
Death cults are just crazy people. I guess occasionally they get the ok from rhe ministorum
final spruce
Taking saint names instead
Funnily enough thats more the Tempestus scions that do that
rose thorn
Funnily enough thats more the Tempestus scions that do that
Oh yeah, they take the name of heroes of the imperium
I love the idea there’s one named Ciaphas Cain some where
final spruce
Probably more than 1 Cain yeah
rose thorn
Side note if you wanna run Cain in game and stay lore accurate you could totally say he took the name of Cain and just happens to look exactly like him or had facial reconstruction to look like him
alpine ingot
I can already see it now:
Random: names his vet Mkoll
Random: Tries to lonewolf push to the end of the level on his own
Random: get's killed by a random cultist, rages, refuses to elaborate, Leaves.
unique berry
I can already see it now:
Random: *names his vet Mkoll*
Random: Tries to lonewol...
100% gonna happen at least 5 times a day
solemn cargo
Nunners with gunners
plush mason
nice
rose thorn
are they still nids or nah?
Lore wise people thought they were nids and freaked out over them lmao
plush mason
lmao
storm jungle
They are basically a footnote RPG race so.
brittle coral
So are the Zoats tbh
Oh, you probably said footnote race in response to my last statement
Fair enough
rose thorn
My partner is getting into warhammer and she liked the dark angels but their normal models looked relaly boring and just green space marines
And like
Damn you are right lmao
rose thorn
hey so whats like, the over all irony / message of the raven guard?
lavish thorn
What do you mean exactly?
worn cargo
You mean like how raven guard are just as edgy as their primarch & brooding all of the time?
rose thorn
emperors children with their obsession of perfection
White scars being alwaus looked down upon and forgotten
worn cargo
Raven guard is the primarch who got lost in the labyrinth yea?
rose thorn
mostly shit thats actually the emperors fault lamO
rose thorn
Raven guard is the primarch who got lost in the labyrinth yea?
i think thats uh,,,, the salamanders
lavish thorn
Nah that’s the one
worn cargo
i think thats uh,,,, the salamanders
No that’s huggy Vulcan
rose thorn
oh i didnt know that lmao
i really like raven guard there something like
different i guess about them
worn cargo
Basically imagine the extreme term murder of crows
lavish thorn
They’re very few in number and are one of the few chapters/legions that actually use sensible tactics
And also I like their motif
Which is basically:
Bird bird bird bird bird emo
rose thorn
YEah i like the raven style while not going tot he degree of the space wolves
worn cargo
Also they purposefully didn’t change their helmets for bird beak
lavish thorn
I can appreciate the commitment to style
rose thorn
because the beak helmets have more stealth capabilities totally the reason lmao
lavish thorn
Also a rocket powered bird man falling from the sky with a screaming chain sword is definitely stealthy
Just don’t think about it
Haha
rose thorn
THe only real message of them i can think is like
their primarch changed their socitey from blood lust and murder to one of stealth and tatcis
worn cargo
Don’t forget all the Lincoln park
worn cargo
Isn’t that dornian heresy if he goes bird demon?
rose thorn
No
he just spent most of his time murdeirng people who fucked his legion over in the drop sight massacure
lavish thorn
Their irony would be I suppose that they’re dedicated to dealing death, their icon is a raven (deadly omen) but their biggest issues came from trying to create life
Corvus tried to replenish the legion after the massacre, but it was sabotaged
And he basically had to kill a whole bunch of his “children” because they were all mutants/insane
rose thorn
YEAH
worn cargo
Not as bad as the alpharius legion
rose thorn
i forgotten about that
rose thorn
And he basically had to kill a whole bunch of his “children” because they were a...
he did vow to venge them
and he was truely sorrowful
lavish thorn
And he definitely did - scared the absolute piss out of lorgar
He learned to manipulate his warp powers
Hence, terrifying bird demon
worn cargo
he just spent most of his time murdeirng people who fucked his legion over in th...
Also they were adept at the siege of terra due to being smaller groups & gurellia warfare
lavish thorn
Also they were adept at the siege of terra due to being smaller groups & gurelli...
That’s why I love the raven guard
They fight smart
Similar to alpha legion but with more of an emphasis on actual fighting as opposed to misdirection and sabotage
worn cargo
And also not complete dicks all the time
lavish thorn
Hahaha
Also that
Alpha legion having a crippling addiction to overly complicated plans
worn cargo
Just who is alpharius at this point
worn cargo
I wonder if they actually believe that
Maybe that’s why nobody has truly infiltrated them, they just can’t be alpharius
lavish thorn
Baldermort or Oculus has a really good video on that somewhere
worn cargo
You gotta eat like alpharius, you gotta sleep like alpharius
It’s like
50% chance they died
worn cargo
I was thank you very much
Now I’ll finally understand why it’s a fallout 3 Garry reference
worn cargo
I will thank you
rose thorn
after doing alot of researchon the raven guard
they kinda got lamenters syndrome
where they were punished for their words of peace
but this time, they have a gun
plush mason
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2kJhJwMMvik
yeah. the alpha legion would drive any historian to madness
mossy mortar
My partner is getting into warhammer and she liked the dark angels but their nor...
Every chapter was created starting with a paint color
rose thorn
Every chapter was created starting with a paint color
yeha but, like
green marines lmao
also i think they have the worst upgrade kit lmao
mossy mortar
The best part of dark angels is that ancient Deathwing short story
Their theme is they're based on a poem
Anf also vague Arthurian knight vibes
plush mason
mossy mortar
emperors children with their obsession of perfection
White scars being alwaus l...
What? No the white scars are literally just Genghis Khan in space
mossy mortar
Also they purposefully didn’t change their helmets for bird beak
Beakies were always better anyway
mossy mortar
And he basically had to kill a whole bunch of his “children” because they were a...
You forgot that his last words were "nevermore" and rhen he disappeared forwver
rose thorn
You forgot that his last words were "nevermore" and rhen he disappeared forwver
He really do be like that Huh
mossy mortar
That is not ehat that is a reference to
lavish thorn
Hahaha mags
I think it’s reasonably obvious that Corvus Corax was not, in fact, quoting sailor moon when he bailed
Edgar Allen Poe
Quoth the Raven
Nevermore
Because let’s be honest, old school WH40k writers were hacks haha
mossy mortar
Nah they ruled
The whole backstory was a setup for that single joke
My favorite is still the story for how they named the Land Raider and Land Speeder vehicles
plush mason
mossy mortar
The best part of dark angels is that ancient Deathwing short story
"William King - Deathwing | PDF" https://www.scribd.com/document/542617625/William-King-Deathwing
gloomy mason
I’m completely new to Warhammer, just got my first book today, haven’t played any games. How did this universe get started and what was the general philosophy that went into it?
plush mason
afaik its start was a bunch of brits getting together in the 80s and taking the nature of times they lived in and the various works they liked and merging them together and cranking up the dark sides of all to make a universe of insane scale and darkness
but that may not be all of it or i may be wrong completely
mossy mortar
Major influences include: Dune, A Canticle for Leibowitz, and Asimov's Foundation series
plush mason
ye
mossy mortar
I would definitely read all of those if you ever have time because theu are good books and very influential
plush mason
it was also the Thatcher years in england so there is that
mossy mortar
Oh and Judge Dredd and other early 2000AD era comics
Yes
Thatcher was honored with a major character named after her
plush mason
lmao
mossy mortar
Ooh Nemesis the Warlock that's another good 2000ad comic
plush mason
so who or what is this "imperial household"
lavish thorn
That typically refers to the Emperor and his closest attendants and servants, inclusive of scientists, weaponsmiths, Malcador, and depending on the author the custodes
It’s not explicitly defined
plush mason
so the people closest to the master of mankind himself
lavish thorn
Exactly
The have a more limited scope but have ultimate authority within the palace
plush mason
lavish thorn
Basically the same as the Custodes Magisterium Lex Ultima, but only within their specific domain
As opposed to the Custodes who can do absolutely anything they want on the grounds of being the Emperor’s personal companions
One of Oculus’ best videos
Luetin has some on the Psi Titans as well
Definitely worth a watch
plush mason
idfk why but Luetin's voice just triggers my ADD something bad lol
like 15mins is the longest i have been able to make it in most of his videos
lavish thorn
Hah he reminds me of a professor giving a lecture
plush mason
yeah maybe thats it
lavish thorn
I regularly fall asleep to either luetin oculus or baldermort haha
I think 40k has been branded into my subconscious
lavish thorn
God yeah he’d be fantastic
I’m surprised GW haven’t reached out to him to narrate something like Xenology
keen nova
Would battlefront be the perfect basis for a cross over/40k game? Like, imagine remaking this screen for 40k, what would be the equivalents be for the imperium? (Nevermind the era inaccurate heroes)
mossy mortar
Scale might be too big to manage within a reasonable budget
But then there are some Arma mods that are pretty fun so
gloomy mason
Major influences include: Dune, A Canticle for Leibowitz, and Asimov's Foundatio...
Oh yeah I’ve read Dune and both Foundation trilogies, good stuff. Haven’t heard of that other one tho
mossy mortar
Id say it definitely fits in that same era of early 60s post apocalyptic scifi
mossy mortar
Da emperor did nothig wrong
tired umbra
My boy did so much wrong
mossy mortar
Like
mossy mortar
Such as?
daring hill
The Horus Heresy is the result of all of his failures
mossy mortar
Eh it's the result of the human flaws of the godlike figures involved
It plays as high operatic tragedy
Hubris and human weaknesses
daring hill
Angron if the Emperor saved his people AND Angron. Or, just walk into that arena and just autowin.
mossy mortar
Very Greek
daring hill
You wouldn't have the resentment of Angron.
When those men died in that arena. Angron was long gone.
mossy mortar
Angron probably died woth them
Anf was teleported right at the very end
He just doesn't remember it because he has a very unreliable memory
And in both his madness and pride can't accept that he was defeated
daring hill
Emps failed quite literally everyone.
mossy mortar
How so
daring hill
He never put Horus in check.
daring hill
He treated Horus like a golden child.
shadow plover
not only his sons but also the people he worked with to create his sons
daring hill
not only his sons but also the people he worked with to create his sons
Yup.
shadow plover
or rather his tools
mossy mortar
He needed someone to take over the crusade while he put the next stage in his plan in motion
daring hill
Well he did things with the other Perpetuals
mossy mortar
If not Horus rhen who? Guilliman?
daring hill
And none of them really liked the emperor.
worn cargo
Well he *did* things with the other Perpetuals
THAT SOUNDS PERVERTED
daring hill
Pious was just good buds
mossy mortar
Delegation is necessary
daring hill
He did the nasty with one of em
shadow plover
yeah he was disliked probably for good reasons
daring hill
and it's why the primarchs were dispersed in the galaxy
old trench
There's also the meme-oversimplification of "All religion is doubleplusungood and will henceforth be banned, now excuse me as I don my golden power armor to halt the Great Crusade so I can summon my Angels of Death to a Council of Nikaea."
shadow plover
also the hubris on that man
worn cargo
If we go by lore
YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE HE’S HIDING IN THE CLOSET WAITING.
daring hill
There's also the meme-oversimplification of "All religion is doubleplusungood an...
"I'm not a god."
Proceeds to act like a God
mossy mortar
There's also the meme-oversimplification of "All religion is doubleplusungood an...
Maybe it lost nusnce on translation
daring hill
Maybe it lost nusnce on translation
No...he was VERY anti-religion.
storm jungle
Everything. Wrong
You forgot to mention the uh
literal galactic jihad
that killed humans and aliens alike in genocides
daring hill
literal galactic jihad
That too.
mossy mortar
Part of his plan
daring hill
"You're mutants. Die."
storm jungle
That plan worked out great
daring hill
"You don't recognize me. Die."
mossy mortar
Clearly he needed all of humanity to follow along his master plan or it wouldn't work
worn cargo
literal galactic jihad
That’s just a crude version of the systematic sacrifices for the warp book
mossy mortar
I have my own personal theory on ehay the plan was
storm jungle
Clearly he needed all of humanity to follow along his master plan or it wouldn't...
Spoken like every fascist dictator in history
daring hill
Clearly he needed all of humanity to follow along his master plan or it wouldn't...
So...glassing sects of isolated humans
old trench
Most people think the Impeium would be improved if Emps ever woke up
I can't help but think he'd manage to fuck it up even more
daring hill
Is normal
mossy mortar
Uh no most dictators are obsessed woth blood and soil
mossy mortar
They're not universalists
storm jungle
he literally wants to conquer the galaxy
worn cargo
So...glassing sects of isolated humans
Worked for the hive planet the krieg’s come from afterall
daring hill
He literally went "Everything must be murdered that isn't human."
mossy mortar
He's also an immortal wizard who's over 30,000 years old
storm jungle
Also of course dictators arent universalist since we dont exactly have a space-faring empire
storm jungle
He's also an immortal wizard who's over 30,000 years old
So?
age does not equal wisdom
He literally tells that human priest that "I know im right"
daring hill
I could be 40 years old.
worn cargo
age does not equal wisdom
In his case the opposite now in his big chair
mossy mortar
He knew a lot more about the nature of the universe than pretty much everyone there
daring hill
But if I act like a 10 year old who throws a tantrum when people don't listen to me
mossy mortar
Except for his immediate contemporaries
daring hill
I'm a goddamn 10 year old
daring hill
Except for his immediate contemporaries
Roooiiigghhhttt...
worn cargo
He knew a lot more about the nature of the universe than pretty much everyone th...
Wasn’t that the old ones?
Who created the ork?
mossy mortar
And chaos
storm jungle
It was.
daring hill
So he knew better than to piss off the Black Library?
mossy mortar
In old lore old ones created orks and eldar
daring hill
Which. He did. Twice.
worn cargo
Eldar were created by old ones??
mossy mortar
I think they msde the war in heaven stuff more vague
worn cargo
I thought they had different gods
daring hill
Eldar were created by old ones??
To fight the Necrons
mossy mortar
Yes that's why orks and eldar both hsve pointy ears
storm jungle
I thought they had different gods
The Eldar gods were created after the war from their collective belief.
storm jungle
Yes that's why orks and eldar both hsve pointy ears
And nah
its just random artistic decision
daring hill
Orks are devolved from something else
storm jungle
orcs/orks having pointy ears is just a LOTR effect
mossy mortar
Or the eldar gods were actual warp constructs created by the old ones to lead the eldar
storm jungle
they got em in Warcraft too and other fantasy universes
worn cargo
The Eldar gods were created after the war from their collective belief.
Wait so they are or weren’t?
daring hill
orcs/orks having pointy ears is just a LOTR effect
and gw just ripping the models from their fantasy line
But don't tell people that.
Shhhhhhhh
storm jungle
Wait so they are or weren’t?
They do.
mossy mortar
The orks say the brain boyz created then
storm jungle
Anyway yeah the Old Ones lore is more or so still solid from the new codex lore drops. Nothing's that changed.
daring hill
The orks say the brain boyz created then
The Orks as we know it are descendants of the Krorks
Which were also used to fight necrons
mossy mortar
Old lore imploed snotlings were actually the superintelligent battlefield commanders of the krork
storm jungle
Old lore imploed snotlings were actually the superintelligent battlefield comman...
That was just a fan theory.
mossy mortar
Bit then some vital fungus or bit of genetic code was lost snd they become tiny stupid snotlinks
storm jungle
its a good one but never said anywhere.
worn cargo
I wish they were that smart
daring hill
its a good one but never said anywhere.
Like most of codex fluff of old
mossy mortar
It's in some ancient white dwarf or something
storm jungle
Like most of codex fluff of old
💀
worn cargo
Isn’t it the other upper echelon, same as a grot but taller & a whole sprawling market & stuff?
mossy mortar
Yehs it's better that way
daring hill
You get about 10-15 pages of fluff.
mossy mortar
Vague is better than needlessly specific
mossy mortar
And some rad drawinfs
storm jungle
worn cargo
Yeah but literally nothing in white dwarf is canon anymore
What????
mossy mortar
I love the old art
mossy mortar
Also the middle age of art eoth John Blanche
mossy mortar
Dude rules
daring hill
It's fucking batshit
mossy mortar
Im the best way
worn cargo
This game goes back to the 80’s?
storm jungle
The Imperium back then were basically the british government
daring hill
You read that and you wonder if they were on drugs
storm jungle
and space marines arrested people
daring hill
This game goes back to the __80’s?__
Yes.
storm jungle
This game goes back to the __80’s?__
Yes
daring hill
Yes. It. Does.
worn cargo
and space marines arrested people
No fucking way
storm jungle
No fucking way
Basically it started as a goofy sci-fi universe before the 2000's came and it became a bit more serious as a setting.
Just because its old doesn't mean much though, the franchise just turned more towards a profit-priority angle with lots of factions among other things.
daring hill
Their 30th was somewhere in 2015-2016 area.
mossy mortar
It's nuts who gets a whole army list now
daring hill
But that's just 40k.
worn cargo
Basically it started as a goofy sci-fi universe before the 2000's came and it be...
Yea but everything’s changed radically you wouldn’t expect it to be from the 80’s, I was assuming 90’s to early 2000’s
worn cargo
Chess?
mossy mortar
The setting needs just the right touch of goofiness, played straight
daring hill
So think War in the Africa Campaign
mossy mortar
My favorite bit of warhammer lore is the story of how they named the Land Raider and Land Speeder vehicles
daring hill
Warhammer Fantasy Battles was the "big boy game"
40k was the "skirmisher" game
mossy mortar
It's the perfect mix of realism and absurdity
daring hill
Back when we had these titles
shadow plover
this year is 35th anniversary for 40k
daring hill
40k was just Fantasy in space.
mossy mortar
40k stated out as more of RPG style
storm jungle
Yeah fantasy had a slow start but was around much longer.
The franchise name of Warhammer™️ itself comes from it
mossy mortar
With characters and stuff
storm jungle
mossy mortar
From rogue trader era
storm jungle
Sigmar my beloved
worn cargo
What a nerd
shadow plover
sugmar
worn cargo
Can’t even get his own look so he takes thors
daring hill
Yeah fantasy had a slow start but was around much longer.
The franchise name of...
we do not speak of the old races and their connotations
You know of what I speak.
mossy mortar
Warhammer is like tolkein fantasy but with a distinctly high germanic flair
daring hill
From rogue trader era
Rogue Trader ironically was a start
mossy mortar
Based on the genre of Napoleonic wargames
mossy mortar
Because, well, british nerds love their napoleon
daring hill
No.
That was just wargaming back then
I will get my 50 year old+ wargaming dm to pull out pics and evidence
The dude has a near on encyclopedic knowledge on this shit
mossy mortar
daring hill
If you looked at wargaming trends back then, Napoleon, 1943 Africa Campaign (HOI4 but without the computer), and other such games
mossy mortar
daring hill
Were the norm
daring hill
Duly note. Those are more "germanic" versions of wargaming which took to popularity.
And they followed vastly different rules and were regulated by a "game master" of sorts
Whereas I'm talking more of a "dumbed down" version which came later
shadow plover
real sigma males
mossy mortar
Yeah i got those from hg wells' Little Wars
daring hill
real sigma males
Well it was to simulate and teach junior officers
So the real point was to simulate real world tactics, maneuvers, and battle drills in a realistic environment
You had two sides, and the GM which was the highest/most experienced
Such as "I move my troops here."
Wait for response.
GM gives his go.
You move, etc
mossy mortar
Lol
daring hill
The game.
mossy mortar
Yeah
daring hill
If you like logistics.
You will love it.
It will take more than 4 years to complete it.
as in win
mossy mortar
Yeah it's like spreadsheets the game
worn cargo
I love it when my chain of command gets wiped because my officer was taken out by a 4 inch artillery shell
daring hill
Yeah it's like spreadsheets the game
It's HOI4 without the computer
worn cargo
I’ll get him next year…
daring hill
That's the best approximation
mossy mortar
I just bought this guy:
daring hill
I love it when my chain of command gets wiped because my officer was taken out b...
And wanna know what the GM of the simulation would say?
mossy mortar
Haven't been able to get a gsme together yet though
mossy mortar
Rub some dirt on it
daring hill
And...it would kinda be a direct order, because it's to teach a very grim lesson.
We still do these things
But it's more computational
(Because these games take hours even with computers)
worn cargo
And wanna know what the GM of the simulation would say?
Accurate
daring hill
Again it's a great history on how "wargaming" came about
mossy mortar
It should be a requirement that you be a history nerd if you write for GW
daring hill
It should be a requirement that you be a history nerd if you write for GW
You'd have a incompetent team.
mossy mortar
Or any fantasy honestly
daring hill
Or any fantasy honestly
You'd have a book instead of a codex.
worn cargo
Did they even bother to put in HP or dragging wounded soldiers to the back & bring in the research that shows why most military regiments injure rather than kill?
mossy mortar
Fantasy fiction is just historical fiction for an made up history
daring hill
Did they even bother to put in HP or dragging wounded soldiers to the back & bri...
Oh for African Campaign 1943?
Yes
Yes. They. Fucking. Did.
worn cargo
Yes. They. Fucking. Did.
Now I’m interested
daring hill
Italians consumed two food per unit
Tanks had their own fuel.
Jeeps had their own fuel.
mossy mortar
Did they even bother to put in HP or dragging wounded soldiers to the back & bri...
Eve in 40k that's why removing models is called a casualty not a kill. It represents a model rendered combat ineffective not dead.
worn cargo
Eve in 40k that's why removing models is called a casualty not a kill. It repres...
A causality is different, you see you lose 2 or more soldiers when you “lose” a model
That guy’s just dead on the ground
daring hill
If you move a vehicle it loses fuel points
Again.
Battle for the African Campaign
Is Logistics the Game.
And...the Nazis are on the losing side
mossy mortar
I kneo someone who's doing s playthrough... It's been 6 months
daring hill
You are constantly fighting for resources.
mossy mortar
And that's on orn of the computerized adaptations
daring hill
British Navy's effectiveness pretty much determines whether or not you get supplies.
daring hill
That guy’s just dead on the ground
Wanna know the fucked up part?
Your supplies are fucking random.
mossy mortar
But it's in the same vein
daring hill
every. Single. One.
worn cargo
Wanna know the fucked up part?
Your supplies are fucking random.
WHAT random?
daring hill
Yes
mossy mortar
Just like real life
worn cargo
You’re not saying you can end up with 4 muskets and a guy who can’t read with a jeep he cannot drive
Are you
daring hill
You’re not saying you can end up with 4 muskets and a guy who can’t read with a ...
THATS EXACTLY WHAT IM FUCKING SAYING
mossy mortar
British bureaucracy
daring hill
It is logistics the fucking game.
mossy mortar
Accurate
daring hill
Again.
If you wanna warsim that hard
Go play HOI
Hell go play something else.
Because those games take minimum
worn cargo
THATS EXACTLY WHAT IM FUCKING SAYING
Well Atleast they want you to know that RNG-Jesus on your side, remove weapons from the pool.
mossy mortar
They didn't have the option back then
daring hill
4 fucking years to resolve.
mossy mortar
No computers
daring hill
No computers
We do now.
daring hill
Well Atleast they want you to know that RNG-Jesus on your side, remove weapons f...
So you have weapons and ammo seperated
Oh yea your howitzer ammo is separated too
can't forget that tidbit
worn cargo
Oh yea your howitzer ammo is separated too
This really does sound like a training game
worn cargo
Wonder how it’s like to have to calculate 3 rounds & the approximate radius to know how to blow that dude up
worn cargo
Did they purposefully make sure the Nazi side would lose everytime?
daring hill
Well...it's painfully accurate to the real historical event.
So Nazis, and Italians in that campaign were strained.
They were losing supplies due to the British navy intercepting.
So they engaged in a guerilla warfare with the British using effectively everything they could use.
This means that some went without ammo, food, water, etc.
Because logistics...simply just didn't have any left to give.
worn cargo
I see how this game takes years, you have to calculate hunger in some form during a battle don’t you
daring hill
British have it easier but they have to be proactive against the Germans. They can sit in their forts and bases but they need to keep outward pressure
worn cargo
And your guy can fall over from dehydration
daring hill
I see how this game takes years, you have to calculate hunger in some form durin...
Yes.
daring hill
And your guy can fall over from dehydration
And yes
Italians take up 2 water per activation.
(They use up alot of water which is a historical fact)
2 water or food
Point is those fuckers ate well
"Guy" would symbolize a unit
So platoon/company/bn element
Typically you want 3 people per side (more is easier)
Logistics, infantry, Mechanized/air
unique berry
Sicarius is an interesting Ultra Marine kinda but damn that weird writing and plot armor is ouch
keen nova
Scale might be too big to manage within a reasonable budget
Pain, But I can dream. After playing the game a bit again I do feel like it would be a great setup though. Imagine that same fear of seeing a Jedi and everybody ganging up on them to take them down but with space Marines yeah? I want that feeling of grandeur and asymmetric warfare that we (short of) get in The first stone of war But in the style of battlefront
atomic pelican
Nah, they still exist as a regiment
Those who fled
I wouldnt call then an ideology tho
cerulean wagon
its kinda a mix thing, it sorta is an ideology, but also enough of the cadian people still exist and have families to have them exist as a people
they just don't have a home world
atomic pelican
Thats true I suppose. Like the culture survives
final spruce
There is also the training part aka Pask on his adventure to yoink the best soldiers of each regiment to remake the cadian ones
Dude literally stole the tank aces of the Vallhallan and said "Yo you're Cadian now."
cerulean wagon
knight commander pask, hes a cadian tank commander
plush mason
his rank is literally knight commander?
final spruce
Yes , dude could be the pilot of a baneblade but he loves leman russes so much he stays in them
cerulean wagon
plush mason
idk why im surprised by the guard having a rank of knight commander lmao
final spruce
Level mountains and destroy titants level of big pewpew
plush mason
the shadowsword pattern i think its called
literally has a volcano cannon on it
its a titan hunter
final spruce
plush mason
ye
cerulean wagon
cerulean wagon
nope, normal kit
plush mason
According to the wiki
316 tons
wtf
is that the base weight or the full operational weight?
cerulean wagon
plush mason
it can get up to 90 depending on operational loadout
final spruce
is that the base weight or the full operational weight?
They don't specify, remember 40k was written by nerds with no gun or tank knowledge
plush mason
They don't specify, remember 40k was written by nerds with no gun or tank knowle...
rip
final spruce
That's the leman russ's
final spruce
Weight: 60 Tonnes
I believe there a special type of valkyrie that can drop stuff like buggies and sentinels but not leman russes
cerulean wagon
can the leman russ be air dropped?
yes, with specialist grav gear, but its more likely just landed in with skycranes
plush mason
k
cerulean wagon
final spruce
Ah, our beloved
plush mason
who controls the air power in 40k the navy or the guard?
cerulean wagon
Navy
or well
they control any space worthy air
including the valk and thunderbolt
there are some actual standard aircraft in 40k, but they don't get much lore since space exists
plush mason
lmao
final spruce
Like in every part of 40k every department is separated so that if they decide to join Chaos they cannot fully function
icy pagoda
Does the Imperial Navy conscript manpower like the Guard does?
cerulean wagon
Yes, voidsmen at arms are allowed to make up a specific % of any ships given crew
i believe 5-10%?
final spruce
Yeah that's the name of Navy ship crew
They even have an armed force, mainly breach defense and offense eprsonnel
Hell they recently got a plastic kit for killteam
storm jungle
Does the Imperial Navy conscript manpower like the Guard does?
Almost every low level voidsmen in the navy is pressganged into service
they live and die at the bowels of those ships basically
Upper decks are comfy tho
icy pagoda
That's about what I assumed, figured the need for manpower would be insatiable on ships that large
storm jungle
Yeah its literally the same as IRL middle-age/early era ship stuff basically
lots of slaves/pressganging
icy pagoda
@cerulean wagon @storm jungle Thank you both
storm jungle
I came for some afterwords but no worries 👍
and when in doubt just use the lexi, best thing you can get for sources
icy pagoda
Ah yeah, always forget about the wikis
plush mason
dont the voidsmen spend generations serving on those ships or is that more of a meme?
final spruce
Also since ships are usually self -reliant , its a common sight for the current crewmen to be the sons and daughters of the previous crew
Nope that's not a meme
plush mason
lmao
storm jungle
dont the voidsmen spend generations serving on those ships or is that more of a ...
Literally yes lmao
they breed/work down there constantly
like imagine your daily life
but replace all the tasks with ship stuff
plush mason
Also since ships are usually self -reliant , its a common sight for the current...
how self reliant? we talking thinks like manufactories and what not built into the ship?
storm jungle
and make your work/locations the bowels of a ship
cerulean wagon
how self reliant? we talking thinks like manufactories and what not built into t...
yup, workshops and aquafarms
final spruce
how self reliant? we talking thinks like manufactories and what not built into t...
Yeah usually they have their own hydroponics, air recycler , own tool and ammo factories
plush mason
so they dont have to make port very often
cerulean wagon
its effectivley a flying hive city
plush mason
smart
final spruce
When you realise some travels can take decades or centuries because of warp shenanigans its nice to be prepared
final spruce
Yes lmao
final spruce
Servitors are literally enslaved folks
cerulean wagon
its legal although regional dependant
plush mason
the entire imperium is one vast chattel slave market basically
cerulean wagon
some governors n cultures oust it, but you can sorta just do it if u wanna in majority of places
storm jungle
Yeah pretty much this.
Even the places that dont "do it" you can still get enslaved in some part of the world through certain scenarios
final spruce
On that note I go sleep, you guys handle the lore and theorycrafting
scenic bolt
theres whole guard regiments that are slaves, akin to the janissaries
plush mason
like everyone's favorite pajama troopers that are literally debtor slaves
the jopal indentured i think they are called
storm jungle
Yep
plush mason
theres whole guard regiments that are slaves, akin to the janissaries
there is literally a guard regiment called the janissaries but afaik they arent slaves
just fanatics
storm jungle
Yeah they basically got Jannies in their name because it sounds cool
plush mason
and they have cool masks
storm jungle
I can confirm as a Turk im offended that they wasted such a cool word on a footnote RPG regiment 
worn cargo
Hey look a neo Roman
storm jungle
Yeah higher ranks can use em
cerulean wagon
and by higher ranks, 1 person per squad
storm jungle
plush mason
yeah they make human sized bolters
worn cargo
Who’s the most known commissar that fights gnazgul?