40k-lore-chat

[west pelican]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825084845628588063/1017191012969492490/unknown.png

how to make it lore accurate

kinetic/energy/missile/whatever weapons , pure armour?

[spark relic]

The weaponry and armour levels vary wildly depending on class

[west pelican]

i dont even know whether energy shields are a thing in warhammer

ive heard of some ships using ancient technology to break reality and explode ships

and some just had kinetic cannons

[spark relic]

They are, though they're called void shields most of the time

It depends on faction

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Navy#Vessels

Here's all the vessels of the Imperium

[west pelican]

if you can put that on a titan ,then titan walking on 2 legs makes much more sense

[spark relic]

The power of the shields vary and are always far weaker on titans in comparison to ships because of the size difference, I don't know if legs make more sense than wheels or tracks

But hell, this is sci-fi, nothing makes any sense at all!

[west pelican]

if titans are very agile

then legs make more sense for hard terrains

and i assume they have some kind of relatively infinite power source compared to normal human tanks

so efficiency isnt a issue

[spark relic]

Yeah titan cores are very long lasting and they are more agile in a sense

But sentinel walkers are also agile so the size isn't the main thing here

Titans can go on longer missions and rarely need to charge but they undergo constant maintenance anyway so we don't really know how long one can last

[west pelican]

seems like strongest ships in imperium use

ridiculous energy beams or near FTL kinetic

[spark relic]

Yeah they have the best guns because they're the biggest and rarest craft in the navy

The smaller ships use more conventional stuff

Then of course there's the unique ships

The Gloriana Class Battleships

If I remember correctly only 20 were ever built

Many of them are now gone but they were fleet killers back when they were still around

[west pelican]

damn they still use jet engines on strike craft

[spark relic]

I mean yeah, they're not very advanced compared to literally all other factions save the orks and tyranids

Eldar, Necrons and T'au are far more advanced in every single scientific field

All this stagnation thanks to Emps getting his shit kicked in by Horus

[final spruce]

You can add to that Votann now

[spark relic]

Oh yeah, speez dwarfs

[final spruce]

Fucking planetoid station furnace

[spark relic]

Elves and dwarfs? What's next, orks?!

Wait

Damn it

[rose thorn]

I really hope we get a faction that uses like hunting tactics and shit LIKe kroot

Fragile kinda elite army that is dependent on setting traps and strategic shit

Probably long range units

Maybe like that buff kroot get from killing enemies, you get an army wide buff for hunting a certain target

Maybe you get to pick one of the enemies units and your opponent picks like 2 of their own units to be valuable

‘Oh yeah while you have like one unit on their terrain, enemies you kill near it you get hunting points or some shit’

‘Then your hunting points you can rally the hunters and they get poison shots’

[atomic pelican]

Kauyon tau

[rose thorn]

idk what that is

OH

Just a philosophy

[atomic pelican]

Ye

P much all of the tau's warfare philosophy descends from fire caste hunting styles

Kauyon being the sit and wait, trapper sort of style

And Montka being the "run forward and spear it" fiery style

[rose thorn]

I just read an article on someone fighting an all kroot army with teh new tau codex, and the kroots biggest advantage is their deploy advantages

I love the kroot soooo much and I have no clue why lmao

I might unironcially make an all kroot army

Like I say that a lot but

Kroot

Apparently it’s not even bad

[atomic pelican]

Yeah Kroot are actually p good

Theyre cheapo spammable troops who can fill detachments

Which means points can go into what Tau actually like taking more often. Which are crisis suits and heavy armor

[rose thorn]

Cheaper kroot means more room for kroot

I love that they are lizard bird dinosaur people, it’s weird and I love it

They eat things so they can force them selves to evolve into that thing

Isn’t that the most unqiue shit ever?

I also heard a theory they are a descendent of nids which sounds extremely stupid

[slender orchid]

What? no. Zoats are linked to the nids, but Kroot are their own race.

Actually pretty good, but horribly expensive, on tabletop. Until this kill team comes out think they just have really old models in either metal or finecast. Building a full army would take... LOTS.

[tiny raven]

3d printer go brrr

[rose thorn]

Lmao yeah when I buy my new screen

Which I was supposed to do today but i haven’t been paid yet

[frosty cobalt]

@rose thorn fav fact about the kroot is that the tau were really fuckin close to their homeworld right? The kroot are way older than the tau, but when the tau showed up, all the kroot on pech were just like “o shit act primitive”

So when the tau saw warspheres lifting off of pech, they were like “.....hm”

[solemn cargo]

I am Kroot

[plush mason]

so do the orks remember the beast?

[tired umbra]

Not really. 99.99% weren't around when it happened.

[barren tapir]

Maybe in a very instinctive way, but for sure not personally and not consciously

[plush mason]

got it

[barren tapir]

I still laugh when i think of an ork that speak a better high gothic than an human, but that is what happened

[vapid tiger]

Likely, if the 40k orks have the same racial memory the fantasy orks do

Da Great Green

Where shamans will tell greenskins of the stories of famous past greenskins and ancient foes through essentially casting magic lightshows in the sky

I mean each of the modern ork clans is based on the tribes of each beast warlord, with the goffs being based on the tribe of THE beast

And "mag uruk thraka" means "I am slaughter" which was apparently also the moniker of the beast of beasts

[rose thorn]

WIAT, if sisters get power armor why dont at least high ranking members of the guard get power armor

normal humans are more then able to use it

[cerulean wagon]

uh lore wise guard can get power armour, but only for specialist squads and its incredibly rare

[woven sandal]

Also the same reason we don't have generals running around in Armor in modern times. They aren't supposed to be on the front lines.

[coarse mirage]

I really like the Custodes. They seem to stand above everyone else, yet they don’t enjoy it in the slightest.

They’re like relics of a lost age, a vision of the promises for mankind that are now lost.

And when they get out into the imperium itself they seem to feel little else than contempt for what it’s become

[lunar notch]

That's because they are clockwork people.

[autumn panther]

Is there any mention of what the hell that little eyepiece on krieg engineers is? Cause it couldn't be auto senses, is it a head mounted auspex system like space marines get?

[odd palm]

I doubt it would be a head mounted auspex

[autumn panther]

I mean it does mention that they pack auspex, so its not that far out

Just doesn't specifiy the kind

[odd palm]

But that small and for a comparatively expendable soldier? It seems unlikely.
Might simply be an ocular augmetic in order to see in various visions types, with a zoom feature

[autumn panther]

Like a thermal sensor or night vision?

[odd palm]

Mhm

[autumn panther]

Hehe, fair enough, thank ya

[odd palm]

I'm just speculating, not a krieg fan

[autumn panther]

It makes sense

[frail rune]

I got a headcannon where some/most of the Ork Weirdboyz are aware of the fact that they are in fictional universe, but that nobody believes them.

Or at least if they try to break the 4th wall they explode

[rose thorn]

‘Ey Lads, do you know that we purely exist in a book called the orks codex, ain’t that a thinkin? We are just a metaphor for undirected mob mentality and pointless war lobbying, in a humorous fashion?’

‘Wuh?’ BONK

[dense glen]

We'z aint allowed to read no more 'coz Barbog krump'd 'imself

[rose thorn]

I want to make a sisters with a knight, what order would you think would most likely have a knight

[plush mason]

if all else fails freeblades are an option

[rose thorn]

I know, I love the idea of a giant murder robot, the ego of a knight mixed with the extreme religiousness of a sisters

I was looking at sacred rose and ebon chalice,

[rose thorn]

Who’s thh my the most spiteful faction

[vapid tiger]

who's thh my

[rose thorn]

Oh my bad

Who’s the most *

[vapid tiger]

u

ur the most spiteful faction

[rose thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[vapid tiger]

and dark eldar

no question

imperium and slaanesh come in second

[rose thorn]

Lmao

[rose thorn]

Okay probably gonna make a DE army, which one of the mini factions do you think

[vapid tiger]

haemonculi cults

evil fuckers

[rose thorn]

YAHHH I like them but I have no clue how to start of the armies

[vapid tiger]

1 hq and 2 troops

[rose thorn]

W-

Wha

[vapid tiger]

For haemonculus covens

and any army really

get 1 hq and 2 troops

Unless they have a combat patrol with everything you want

[rose thorn]

Lmao idk what their troops are

[rose thorn]

I love their flesh horror and mad scientist vibes

[vapid tiger]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Wracks-2014

[rose thorn]

No shit they probably have my favroite modes in the entire game

God I love them

Holy shit they are so cool

[vapid tiger]

Ya

[rose thorn]

What are the covens anyhow?

[alpine ingot]

Dark Eldar, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, ... maybe Imperium, and almost for sure old knight houses are spiteful fuckers.

[vapid tiger]

Covens of like-minded dark eldar haemonculi

Essentially guilds

They like other dark eldar organizations organize their own raids however they frequently have to rely on kabalites to do full-on campaigns or anything

Kabalites specializing in warmaking, haemonculi specializing in mad science and torture, and wych cults specializing in shock assault

Haemonculus coven units include haemonculi leaders, wrack troops, grotesques, scourges and kronos and talos pain engines

I think that's it for them? It may be a good idea to have all three mini factions in the same army eventually

[rose thorn]

I love the dark creed and I love mandrakes, I’m super glade that dark creed have a strong relationship with mandrakes too!! What’s a great coincidence

[rose thorn]

Dark creed hell yeah

[storm jungle]

Darkness is good

edgy good 👀

[tawdry escarp]

Maugan Ra is the Elven Doomslayer

Dude is JACKED

Wait

How long has Maugan Ra been around?

Is the Doomslayer a human Maugan Ra?

[storm jungle]

Maugan has been around since the fall of the Eldar

so like

a long time

But alas Phoenix Lords appeared after the Fall in general so he was just a regular eldar dude back in the day.

[tawdry escarp]

I meant when did GW come up with him

All I'm finding is that the original metal figure for Maugan Ra is from 1994

[storm jungle]

Thats his debut yes

Hes as old as the fucking line itself

[tawdry escarp]

Doom came out in 93 so Doomguy is older

Eh, doesn't matter

They're both awesome

[vapid tiger]

u know who is more awesome

Drazhar

Because dark eldar best eldar

[tawdry escarp]

Look at this dude

He's a way cooler personification of Death than Mortarion

[vapid tiger]

Tru

[tawdry escarp]

I will admit to it being a bit of a low bar considering how much of a little bitch boy Mortarion is

[rose thorn]

Weird question, what’s stopping like, idk let’s say some space marines from saying fuck it and try to join eldar society or tau or some other faction human or xenos. Maybe even fuck off and live as mortals

[lunar notch]

Brain washing and hypnosis.

[rose thorn]

Ah

[storm jungle]

Basically mostly nobody wanting to bother about it

Space Marine brainwashing and hypnosis is practically useless considering most go renegade constantly or join chaos.

So its a mix of tabletop fluff among other things.

[final spruce]

Depends your source since ADB wants you to know that even after going to Chaos , the SM keep their xenophobic ways

[lunar notch]

it's practically useless because the most powerful, corrupting entities can turn Space Marines and even then it is only sometimes

Okay

[storm jungle]

Okay

gestures at literally endless legion of chaos marines

Doesn' really matter what does it when your setting is the entire galaxy

so the numbers kinda bump up either way

[lunar notch]

The civil War was the exception, not the rule. There is a reason why Chaos legions have repeatedly had difficulties replenishing their ranks. There just aren't that many Marines changing sides, and as we have seen repeatedly in the various HH novels the guys flipping sides often did so purely out of loyalty to their Primarch. And then you throw Primaris into the mix and now switching sides becomes even harder.

[storm jungle]

Theres many examples of Marines also turning literally out of arrogance and other factors without the aid of daemonic entities.

Also the numbers game genuinely does not matter

Theres as many faction numbers as the plot demands

[lunar notch]

It does tho. It's ten thousand years of history and on that scope of millions and millions of Marines being created and dying, very few (as a percentage) became renegades or swapped to Chaos. If it was a frequent occurrence then the witch hunters, GKs, Inquisitors, etc would have a nightmare on their hands. But as it stands it is such a rare occurrence that we only have maybe a dozen known instances of it in the lore. Look at the Dark Angels.

[scenic bolt]

(the cursed founding)

[storm jungle]

So yeah as many as the plot demands. The gene-seed for new Marines can come from just about anywhere. Fabius and his students can certainly manufacture their own or stretch existing stocks (which is why they're in such high demand and essentially untouchable in the madness of the Eye). Numerous raids are conducted upon Imperial organisations to secure fresh genetic material. And the old, tried-and-true methods still work if there's not a huge level of variance -- and even sometimes if there is!

The new Chaos Codex even mentions how theres countless traitor marine petty kingdoms to empires on the dark side of the Rift.

Ultimately it really is impossible to say how many CSM are out there. The Fallen, for example, a counter-faction for the Dark Angels are apparently gathering in Legion-sized numbers under Luther's command. "Where?" you may ask. "How?" Dunno. Narrative convenience, I suppose.

Books can only make up so many excuses to tape up narrative plot holes

[lunar notch]

Either way, the fact that legions switched sides was done way more as a result of loyalty than any sense of chaos corruption. This is repeated over and over again in the books.

[storm jungle]

Yeah but we aren't talking about the Heresy

[lunar notch]

We are though. Whole chapters going renegade do so out of a sense of loyalty to the guys saying they should totally do that. Not because they all suddenly decide to get into blood rites and saying spooky words to one another.

[storm jungle]

We aren't.

But yeah if you wanna continue go ahead, im gonna go make toast

https://tenor.com/view/she-hulk-wong-wong-i-must-depart-she-hulk-wong-escape-she-hulk-wong-gif-26613844

[wind flicker]

I personally reinforced the chaos marines by squiggling in the margins of my eisenhorn book

[lunar notch]

Wow, heretical.

A kill team has been dispatched to your location.

The Emperor Protects

[tawdry escarp]

Reaching into the Warp!

[rose thorn]

To be fair the sons of Gulliman fuckibg jumped on the chaos renegade boat as soon as they got any power once so ever

Just as an example

[wind flicker]

its ok I also wrote into the margins that Im an alpha level psyker, I've summoned a bunch of krabs with legs

[tawdry escarp]

Crabs already have legs...?

[wind flicker]

imagine this but with human legs https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fallthatsinteresting.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F08%2Fearly-spider-crab-specimen.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[rose thorn]

CRABBB

[wind flicker]

time 4 crab

[tawdry escarp]

It would be structurally unsound

Also, I counter Psyker you and turn your crabs into hedgehogs

[wind flicker]

ok but their quills are now human legs

[rose thorn]

Since if I’m right, self unliving feeds Slaanesh due to the extremely large amounts of emotional grief,

Wouldn’t it be funny if Khorne made a self help line and is like

‘Mortal, the skulls of your enemies are worth more then a single skull of yourslef.’ And shit like that

[alpine ingot]

I just want to add this to the whole "were are new chaos space marines coming from?" talk; Renegade chapters and Chaos warbands steal loyalist gene seed all the time, they have means of elevating new neophytes on their own with the aid of the dark mechanicum and the remnants of their apothecaries. They are by no means dying out soon if ever.

[storm jungle]

Pretty much yeah

[alpine ingot]

let's not forget that a fair number of traitor marines probably turn to chaos in order to try and save something/someone.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that

[storm jungle]

Yeah the new chaos codex says they can turn for any reason basically

Whether its good or evil intentions

[wind flicker]

turnnnnn aroouund

[storm jungle]

Every now and then I get a little bit lonely

And because the Emperor's never coming 'round

[tiny raven]

[fierce pendant]

White Scars with Jagathai deciding whether it's worth to fight for loyalists or horus, without any chaos or imperial influence

[tiny raven]

[summer niche]

only reason chaos marines would ever disappear is if their models stopped selling, and their part of the settings gets fucking NUKED ie see warhammer fantasy

better keep on buying those chaos marines if you don't want them to disappear timmy

[tiny raven]

fite the powah

[idle anchor]

Random question, is there such thing as a double barrel bolter shotgun?

[storm jungle]

2 to 3 barrelled shotguns exist but bolters dont really work with a shotgun design in mind since its singular bolts more than something with spreading shells in mind.

[idle anchor]

Ok then.

Me and my friends are doing a warhammer dnd campaign and the tech priest in our group took apart some bolters and created a double barrel bolter shotgun

My guardsman had to do a weeks worth of training to use it properly lol

[lunar notch]

There is nothing to say that this couldn't work.

[storm jungle]

In that case just do it honestly

[lunar notch]

Slugs for shotguns are extremely common.

[storm jungle]

40k lore doesnt exactly matter much when the idea is just to have fun

so go for it dude

The reason is it basically just doesnt exist in lore but it doesnt mean you cant just make it up

[idle anchor]

Ight

[plush mason]

its only tech heresy if you get caught after all lol

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/ladrão-thief-trombadinha-roubo-stealing-gif-15156092

[slender orchid]

You just typed double barreled, ballistic capped, rifled rocket propelled grenade, "shotgun". Guessing you aren't a firearms person?

[plush mason]

rifled shotgun barrels do exist but they are hella expensive

[tired umbra]

We're also talking about 40k. Actual firearm knowledge isn't required in the slightest.

[slender orchid]

I mean, it is like typing tractor plane. Or pencil quill.

It isn't a thing, because you are saying two different concepts. 40k or not.

A shotgun is an (almost always) smoothbore gun that fires walled ammunition.

[wind flicker]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-GqXsYk2eVY4%2FWe7ccC4U2FI%2FAAAAAAAAKqQ%2FLMQ4UQwvgF86cm2dR7j7wsuy-bg4ooCEwCLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2F22769638_10156685207374622_9104271794148890236_o.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[slender orchid]

Yeah, it's a combibolter?

[slender orchid]

The bit where there is no earthly way a bolt round can fit?

[wind flicker]

yes

[slender orchid]

It's fiiiiiine

The Emperor teleports the bolt round into the chamber so his will can be done

[plush mason]

lol

[wind flicker]

40k shotgun

[plush mason]

pain

and sadly true

[slender orchid]

I mean, it is a shotgun someone has sawed until it is dumb, an placed a wrong round in

It will almost assuredly not work, explode, break your wrist, or all of the above

That round definitely isn't going anywhere near where you "aim"

[wind flicker]

skill issue

[plush mason]

and yet in 40k it some how works cause (insert bullshit handwavium plot reason here)

[wind flicker]

servomotors in the space marines taint

[tired umbra]

You just gotta be a master in gunkata to wield such a weapon

https://tenor.com/view/equilibrium-christian-bale-guns-gif-15531805

[tired umbra]

That's me except I am wielding 2 full auto bolt action bolters.

[wind flicker]

battlesisterirl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4weEXyoXZKs

live footage of autopistol zealot

[plush mason]

that movie was badass and weird

the weird part was mainly the plot ofc

[cerulean wagon]

actually shotgun bolters exist

arbites use em

[plush mason]

lmao

[tired umbra]

Owned

[plush mason]

anyone else hear the SM simps reeeing at that?

[crisp heath]

everytime somebody complains about the SM players GW releases another SM codex

[cerulean wagon]

this votann model also uses a bolt shotgun

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/league-of-votann-hernkyn-pioneer-2.jpg

[slender orchid]

Nope

A pump doesn't make a shotgun

There is no Arbites Bolt-Shotgun I have ever heard of, and lex doesn't have it either

[cerulean wagon]

its literally called a bolt shotgun

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/weapons-of-the-votann-1.jpg?

sorry kiddo

[tired umbra]

Owned with facts and logic x2

[storm jungle]

Literally Dr Manhattan'd

https://tenor.com/view/dr-manhattan-manhattan-disintegrated-rorschach-watchman-gif-18353996

[deep skiff]

they even use special ammo for

wait its not the same weapon sorry

[slender orchid]

So, point Arbites don't. But yeah, guess GW doesn't know guns either, lol. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/20/lore-of-the-votann-ancient-quasi-divine-machine-intellects-make-for-decent-gunsmiths-it-turns-out/

[plush mason]

they are mostly British so ofc not

[storm jungle]

I mean

its 40k

[plush mason]

also does that bolt shotgun have a revolver cylinder on it?

[storm jungle]

Why would anyone care about gun logistics

like at all

[idle anchor]

Looks like it

[idle anchor]

No one does but it’s funny to think about what would happen if someone tried to make something like that irl

[plush mason]

yeah like i said (insert bullshit handwavium plot reason here)

[storm jungle]

He gets it

[cerulean wagon]

ye, like we said, 40k doesn't care for actual gun stuff

rule of cool > actual science

[idle anchor]

Now I want to see them make a break action double barrel bolt shotgun

For the funny

[tired umbra]

Full auto bolt action double barreled sawed off boltgun

[idle anchor]

I had a fucken stroke reading that

[tired umbra]

And also slap a scope on that thing

[cerulean wagon]

stormbolter moment

[slender orchid]

Again, it has nothing to do with 40ki, this literally ISN"T a shotgun. Would be like calling something a revolver if it didn't have a cylinder and instead was belt felt or something. Shrug

[plush mason]

do yourself a favor and just forget all you know about real world ballistic science when dealing with 40k cause almost none of it applies

[tired umbra]

Yeah 40k is a fantasy land where the laws of physics are barely a factor most of the time.

[plush mason]

yup

[storm jungle]

Yeah pretty much.

Point is proven.

[cerulean wagon]

i mean, bolters can fire a shotgun like pellet shell so idk what more you want form them

its called a shotgun so tis a shotgun

[plush mason]

40k is at the end of the day an 80s era sci fi with some fantasy elements so realism is the last thing any of its writers really care about

[storm jungle]

We just like big guns

[tired umbra]

And we cannot lie

[plush mason]

hell 40k is full of weapons that are misnamed

like the guardian "spear" which is actually a glaive

[tired umbra]

Characters too.

"Nameless King",

That's a name

You absolute fool

[plush mason]

or how about the silent king that actually talks a lot

[tired umbra]

Oh yeah that's the one I was meaning to talk about. Nameless King is from something else...

[wind flicker]

Conan the barbarian

[worn cargo]

No wonder why the imperium of man loses so many battles

Their guns jam due to overcomplexity

[old trench]

The Imperium of Man loses so many battles because their empire has existed for ten thousand years of constant warfare and they still don't know how to select half-decent officers

[storm jungle]

Im glad war wasn't like that IRL

[vapid tiger]

Hey you wouldn't know that if you only read 40k lore

Although tbf some of the 9th ed campaign books feature lots of imperial losses so good

So they fuck right

[cerulean wagon]

krug can you like, not?

[vapid tiger]

i must

[rose thorn]

i might jsut get the drukahi combat patrol because i really like that kabal faction thats like obsessed with guns and the moment any blood gets on it the personw ho let the blood get on it is just fucking hanged

[vapid tiger]

Don't blame ya

They have good models too

[rose thorn]

The obsidian rose yeah that’s what they are called

Shame their color scheme is

Kinda trash, but they have art where it’s a little more red j like

It I don’t like that their guns are dark dirty colors as the entire point is that the weapons are literally made perfect

So I’ll probably make it shiny silver and gold

[plush mason]

are deldar weapons made perfect?

also dont many of them fire like antimatter and dark matter?

[storm jungle]

The anti/dark matter ones are special weapons

[storm jungle]

and it kinda depends

The factorial™️ side of Dark eldar society is never outright told to us minus the lore behind the Obsidian Rose

only that they sometimes use manual labour for the slaves but the weapon production among other things isnt too much in detail

[plush mason]

rip

[storm jungle]

But they are still super deadly and arent like human weapons

so they wont jam among other things

[plush mason]

also do they use weeb guns for their standard weapons like their craft world cousins?

[storm jungle]

Weeb guns?

[atomic pelican]

Splinter rifles and shuriken rifles are somewhat similar I suppose

[storm jungle]

Shurikens you mean?

[plush mason]

yeah

[storm jungle]

Nah even worse

as Dab says their main weapons use "splinter ammunition"

aka imagine someone shooting at you with an M4

but instead of bullets

its toxic glass shards

[plush mason]

lmao

[atomic pelican]

Yee, theyre pretty good at capturing since

Wracked in pain

Also iirc their toxic payload can be changed for different goals

[plush mason]

they sound useless against heavy armor tho

[atomic pelican]

Thatd be correct generally

Dark lances, blasters, and other heavy ordinance fill that slot

[plush mason]

ofc the deldar are pirates and raiders mostly so i doubt they run into things like SMs very often

[storm jungle]

To add to this, its important to remember, Druks are pretty fleet footed and have greater reflexes than that of humans. They can easily aim for joints and openings.

also in that uh

[atomic pelican]

Though there are drukhari poisons which'll bleed through Ceramite

Yeah that too

[storm jungle]

one WH+ short

a kabalite literally kills a terminator with a splinter gun

by shooting through his visor

[plush mason]

lmao

[atomic pelican]

Yeee

[storm jungle]

But as Dab says it all depends

Dark Eldar can easily take on marines

they just would rather not

[atomic pelican]

+Incubi and Wyches are usually the Marine killers™️

[storm jungle]

^

[atomic pelican]

One of the Incubi shrines trains their initiates by having them kill marines with a hand tied LMAO

[storm jungle]

Yeah Incubi dont give a fuck

note the dead Marine at the bottom

[plush mason]

a dead space marine is always good to see

[cerulean wagon]

Its because of representation

SM have more books
SM are main marketing feature
Guard are (usually) a horde army on tabletop
SM focus on the victories of a very few against very key targets

An AM book covering a person covers an individuals survival, not necessarily a victory, because the individuals aren't (usually) what make the AM so good, its the sheer scale of their operations and variety of forces they bring to bear

so where a SM book will "cut off the head of the beast" and the immediatly wins a conflict, it ignores the several thousand imperial guard regiments involved, stretched across multiple solar systems, grinding down the enemies to even grant said chance to cut the head off to begin with

Basically guard are important, but not in a kinda hero power fantasy way

[atomic pelican]

Yeah BL writers usually ignore large swaths of important logi and broad movements

[wind flicker]

Agri world logistics

[cloud token]

This is why im excited about my head RP (pls dont judge) for Darktide.

I literally have my Veteran as just a guy who didnt necessarily want to fight, and was just good at fixing peoples vehicles and equipment... one day their unit was put on a blatant suicide mission and he dipped. Punishment for going against the suicide mission? Penal legion.

Boom

[worn cargo]

Isn’t that also the one where they get trapped by the tomb king?

[cerulean wagon]

one of the options infact is dereliction of duty

[cloud token]

Thats why I want to use the "Loose Cannon" voice. Apparently that personality just wants to gtfo and is out for survival, not glory of the empire.

[cloud token]

I forget what color shirt that gives me xD

[cerulean wagon]

uhhh

blue i think?

[cloud token]

(In all seriousness I hope your "reason for being there" is more than just your starting shirt. Some voice lines and barks would be enough for me but id love if there was inter-character banter about it sometimes)

[cerulean wagon]

it is yes

[wind flicker]

We know cutthroat has cadia quips

[cerulean wagon]

one of the voice options for veteran is a survivor of cadia

[atomic pelican]

Cadia shits

[wind flicker]

Cadia shids

[atomic pelican]

And perhaps fards

[cloud token]

Neat. I tend to not play the more edgy/badass options. So I hope Loose Cannon is accurate to the reports ive heard where its just a soldier trying to look out for their survival and going their own way

[cloud token]

Was that a Grumps reference? XD

[cerulean wagon]

we'll see

[wind flicker]

I hope cutthroat isnt pure cadian and instead changes based off home planet

[atomic pelican]

no

[wind flicker]

🥱

O yeah u were at scrungus then went to cadia

Not gonna be as interesting as cadia home+cadia voice

[cerulean wagon]

who know

i'd like to hope its that way buuuuuut

thats a lot of work

so i won't expect it till we see it

[wind flicker]

It's what 2 people recording 20~ lines

[cerulean wagon]

uhhh

checks the line total

something like that

[cloud token]

I wanna be this guy

I hope the Veteran armor gets this tasty when you are high level/rank/whatever

[wind flicker]

I cant see a tempy skin

[cloud token]

Isnt this a Stormtrooper? Its like the first image for Stormtrooper on the wiki. Which is just a super elite guardsman.

Feels reasonable to give us for high level

[cerulean wagon]

it technically is but isn't

quick lore splurge before i sleep

[wind flicker]

High level no, feels too out of place even for a paid cosmetic

We're rejects and tempest scions are literally the best guard that exist

[cerulean wagon]

Stormtroopers are elite squads n forces within a guard regiment, but in recent lore theres been a bit of a divide on how they are handled.

You have classic stormtroopers, who are veterans part of any regiment or are trained under an inquisitor
You have Regiment specific stormtroopers (Kasrkin for cadia, engineers for Krieg)
You have Tempestus scions (the bois u posted) who are effectively the same role and equipment, but are their own separate armed force from the standard guard and form stand alone regiments

Scions would be closest to ODSTs in role

[cloud token]

Lad in the foreground?

(Greenboi)

[cloud token]

I feel like if your character survived the Hive for extended periods and pulled off a bunch of seemingly impossible victories, the Inquisition supplying you Stormtrooper level gear doesnt seem unreasonable.

[quick jackal]

I thought they renamed stormtroopers to tempestus scions

[cerulean wagon]

nope, different org

[wind flicker]

Their gear is exclusive to them, we'd have to loot it off them (and they arent here)

Its not like it's standard issie

[cerulean wagon]

its hard to know until the games in our hands tbh

[quick jackal]

There are no more stormtroopers in the codex as far as I know

[cerulean wagon]

we have seen cosmetics that come close tho

1 sec

[wind flicker]

Basically all the gear we have is common/uncommon

[cloud token]

Didnt my boi Skeledad just say Inquisitors HAVE stormtroopers under them at times?

[cerulean wagon]

kinda, we aren't really inquisition tho

[cloud token]

Ill survive as long as we have helmet options with some good looking faceplate options.

I just dont like the "wh1 helmet" in space look. Never have.

[cerulean wagon]

we are convicts being sent by an inquisitor yes, but not recognised as part of his retinue

but ye the closest we've seen to like, concepts for stormtroopers is this kinda deal

https://i.imgur.com/pvXqzwL.png

[cloud token]

Am I imagining their blog post talking about how Penal Legion could work their way up the ranks in the Inquisition through exemplary service?

[tawdry escarp]

It has been mentioned that we eventually become trusted agents of the Inquisition

By a dev no less

Matts Anderson said that during his interview at Gamescom

[cloud token]

Id want a grey/green facemask instead of red but I dig that helmet. Just not a fan of the drab drenchcoat. Would like more of a cuirass. And I know for a fact ive seen darktide veteran armors with combat armor looking cuirass

[cloud token]

THANK YOU.

Was worried i was goin crazy

[cerulean wagon]

It depends on how they handle it for the game in total, basically its not "this 100% won't happen" and more "we don't know so don't assume"

[wind flicker]

Basically we move from cannon fodder to useful members of the retinue

T. Eisenhorn/cain

[cerulean wagon]

FS are mixing a lot of stuff up and changing how a lot of stuff functions, like this one being a live service moving story with no preset player characters means we honestly have no idea what the "end goal" of our party is, and we probably won't with the content at release

[atomic pelican]

Reminds me of the boltgun/bolter fiasco

[wind flicker]

True, fs acknowledges that boltgun shouldnt have recoil. But it feels better in-game if does

[cloud token]

H-how would it not? Its firing out a physical round that then activates its lil boosters after leaving the barrel.

It still gets sent shooting out of the barrel, though. Would totally have recoil even if not much

MY question

Is why Lasguns have recoil

Afaik they are shooting LASERS and it isnt a "false laser" situation like blasters in star wars

[wind flicker]

Lasguns have internal mechanisms to mitigate heat that cause the recoil. As well as it not being a conventional optics array

[cloud token]

Hmmmmmm

desire to know more intensifies

[rose thorn]

Did we ever find out what this was?

[storm jungle]

Hmmm let me see

[rose thorn]

I was expecting it to be a named warpsmith but nope

[storm jungle]

https://warbosskurgan.blogspot.com/p/rumour-engines.html

These guys do all the rumor engines

[rose thorn]

And there’s an EC character with apparently a weapon that described is very similar to this

[storm jungle]

should be at the bottom probably

[rose thorn]

Nope NothIn

I also am wondering what thsi is, which has nothing yet either

I’ve heard people say black heart

[storm jungle]

Nah

its absolutely a Knight

the digits are too long and the weapon too thick

would make sense with the size

[atomic pelican]

It could be new Mutilators too

Maybe

I know thats been a rumor for awhile

And Obliterators are updated so

[storm jungle]

Were those the World Eater guys?

because I know they showcased their torso parts a few days ago

[atomic pelican]

Nah Mutilators are just a type of daemon-bound CSM

Theyre kinda like melee-Obliterators

Mutilators(old and current model) vs Obliterators

[shadow plover]

the world eaters preview last week showcased some parts that did indeed look like new mutilator parts

these here, or new unit entirely

[atomic pelican]

Lets goooo

[rose thorn]

I wonder if new WE units will be allowed in normal CSM armies

Not counting characters

Actually can you take cult marines beside noise marines in normal armies I can’t remember

[atomic pelican]

Well Mutilators arent just WE

Or atleast werent

And you can take cult marines in CSM armies

They just dont get Legion traits

[rose thorn]

Ahhhh

[barren tapir]

So, what is being discussed in this hallowed channel?

[rose thorn]

Csms

[barren tapir]

Eeewww

[rose thorn]

Our units aren’t just the same model 50 times with different weapons

I don’t even play space marines I have no clue why their store page just makes me suffer

I hope alpha legion iron warriors and night lords get their own legion only character models

At least just a character or hq

[storm jungle]

Kind of

in 30k Marines were basically countless

so its why you got them fighting around like its a massive land battle or just Waterloo

[atomic pelican]

Yeee, Legions were BIGGO

[storm jungle]

^

[atomic pelican]

And the Legions were doing shit like entire assaults by themselves w/o guard

[storm jungle]

A single 30k Marine Company is like 5000 Marines or so

nowadays a single Chapter cannot get 1000 numbers

[atomic pelican]

I kind of wish numbers were a bit more accurate for the Legions

Like, so

Im imagining a big part of CSM legions rolling mass amounts of chapters at full strength is because certain Legions are still at like

Full Legion numbers

The Word Bearers have like 6 hosts and only one of them is at like 2k marines

Then the Black Legion has numbers of "x10 the Wordbearers"

Which means the Black Legion by itself might be like, 50k CSM strong spread across several bands

[storm jungle]

Its also mostly because the traitor legions need fodder to send in to different locations and plotlines for story purposes

Like how the Word Bearers and Luna Wolves got so many number bumps in them

[rose thorn]

Idk why it feels weird any traitor legion, even BL would trust fallen angels

[shadow plover]

steal some kids from the gang fighters -> profit

[barren tapir]

Because the authors were crap with numbers

[alpine ingot]

Comes down to a number of reasons.
1: they recruited a lot more aspirants from a lot more worlds.
2: the ascension process was a lot safer (in a sense)
3: plot convenience

[final spruce]

Also they didn't have a limit of how many they could have

[alpine ingot]

The only exception to this all is the Space Wolves, they have only ever recruited from Fenris and I think a handful of worlds near Fenris though I have my doubts on that part.

[spark relic]

The lore states they can only recruit from Fenris cause no one else can handle the gene-seed

It's that wolf blood or something

Makes all the difference

[alpine ingot]

Yeah I think I was thinking of Vox Tenebris where the Wolves were fighting to reclaim an outpost on another world in system and my brain wanted to go on a walk lol.

Point 2 was because Imperium can only barely maintain what they once had. Gene Seed degradation is a big concern for raising more space marines and they do not have all the necessary equipment anymore to refill their ranks like they could before.

Guilliman gene seed is so prolific as the source of so many modern chapters due to its stability and it has not avoided most of the degradation the other loyalist have had to compensate for.

[storm jungle]

I mean yeah, because Cawl's a walking Deus Ex Machina

[shadow plover]

this a 40k server, your big words mean nothing to us

[barren tapir]

Actually it was given to cawl by big G

[storm jungle]

And yet he's instantly a better geneticist in every way instantly after getting it

[barren tapir]

Yeah, because he actually absorbed other geneticists minds

And also, better geneticist compared to who? It took 10K years to do complete its work lol

[storm jungle]

Thats a weak excuse and a half lol

also somehow managing to keep it secret under Mars for all those years too

[barren tapir]

Now that i admit is weird lol

[cerulean wagon]

cawl is garbage because hes not a character, hes an excuse to introduce new things that make no sense for GW to sell

[final spruce]

Gav Moment

[plush mason]

isnt that how Tryzen started as well tho?

[cerulean wagon]

he still is

[plush mason]

iirc at first he and his collection was just a way for GW to tease old stuff they may bring back

[cerulean wagon]

Tryzen is literally only popular for the memes

[plush mason]

lmao

[cerulean wagon]

he exists to turn up and unleash a new "forgotten ultramarine company" to save the day

[plush mason]

isnt he also the star of one of the most popular necron books?

or co star i should say

[cerulean wagon]

probably, but necrons only have like

2 books

so its not a high bar

[plush mason]

fair

[cerulean wagon]

same reason ADB gets rave reviews from CSM fans, because hes basically all they have

[final spruce]

Yeah he is one of the 2 MC in the 2 new books irc

[plush mason]

how many books do the admech even have?

[cerulean wagon]

some

[plush mason]

i have literally only heard of mechanicus lol

[final spruce]

They got stuff like Titanicus, the Great Work etc

[plush mason]

k

[rose thorn]

I hope all the rogue trader models we have so far get the killteam box treatment

[plush mason]

ty for reminding me about the rogue trader game being made lol

[final spruce]

I just hope this time they make a balanced game

Atleast their games tend to be highly modable so that's not an issue on the long term

[rose thorn]

Your welcome I’m super hype for it

They released a few dev diaries I haven’t watched lmao

I love the combat arena models

[plush mason]

i literally bought pathfinder wrath of the righteous just to get an idea of owlcat's work and it was a good thing i did cause i really liked what i saw while playing

speaking of rogue traders iirc there is like 6 or so different types of them but i cant remember if said types or more of a personality thing or not

[rose thorn]

I think it’s like, a motive thing

Based off the clans that they were

[plush mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R09Gs73lDY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hAYWspnz6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV6X6j1jgyk

finally a Luetin09 video i can watch aside from the darktide one he made lol

wait so a warrant of trade is basically just letter of marc that you can get from your mum or dad?

[storm jungle]

Yeah basically like IRL Privateers

You get a note from royalty saying you can do whatever you want

and go off to do whatever as long as the nation you work for gets that loot

[plush mason]

well the letter of marc did have limits and they ofc listed who you could and couldnt attack

which it seems the warrant of trade also lists the limits it may have on it

[cerulean wagon]

yup

[plush mason]

LMAO so digital weapons are literally flamer rings or laser rings

[rose thorn]

I love rogue traders so much

I’m still looking for a combat arena box

[vapid tiger]

Yes

this is basic lore

u dum

memorize more pointless 40k trivia NOW

[plush mason]

lmao i have only ever heard of them from that damn 40k diablo clone and i never paid that item any mind cause it sucked

[vapid tiger]

They're in the 1987 rulebook

keep up!!!!!

[alpine ingot]

Think of it like this; if you make a copy of something and keep making a chain of copies, eventually more and more errors are going to creep in. Also Guilliman man is the only source of "fresh" original gene seed material the Imperium has at the moment. I highly doubt they have any banks of crusade Era loyalist gene seed still on ice, but knowing Cawl... he'll have some bullshit excuse for having a vault full.

[vapid tiger]

I copy u

[alpine ingot]

You can't copy me! I am a one of a kind dumb ass.

[vapid tiger]

I kill primarchs

I will write for gw and kill off all the primarchs

except gorillaman he has a funny name

https://youtu.be/_X2zw0RwNsE

[spark zenith]

His name is probably one of the most sensible

I can’t be the only one that thought Angrons name was oddly fitting

[plush mason]

iirc its based off of a nick name some of the GW founder's gave the bouncer at their favorite pub

[spark zenith]

Understandable, those guys are always rather upset

[plush mason]

yes

[vapid tiger]

There are no confirmed loyalists using traitor geneseed but a lot of chapters with strong implications

But never confirmation

[plush mason]

ofc not cause then the idiots in the inquisition would kill them all

[vapid tiger]

Guilliman notes in the first dark imperium book that he thinks that traitor geneseed would lead to chaos corruption, but the cawl inferior does not believe that

[vapid tiger]

there's also the fact that many chaos marines use loyalist geneseed

yet are still chaos corrupted

and the many chapters with loyalist geneseed who have fallen to chaos

[plush mason]

yeah

[alpine ingot]

It is an ingrained stigma for some and a valid reason to avoid other traitor legion gene seed entirely

Personal belief: creating a chapter from Dusk Raider gene stock (what the death guard were called before finding mortarion) might be safe.

Mortarion pretty much left nothing of the original legion stand after the reformation

[plush mason]

assuming said pre corruption genestock still exists somewhere

[real stone]

Didn’t Fabius Bile get his grubby little hands on a gene vault with pure gene seed from all 20 primarchs? Or am I just hallucinating?

[plush mason]

idk

[dry epoch]

One of my favourite bits of Fabulous Billy lore is that he was born on Terra, in Ingolstadt. Which is where Victor Frankenstein went to university. A lovely little nod.

[alpine ingot]

Funny thing about that. Astral Claws were theorized to be of Luna Wolves gene stock and well... they are now the Crimson Corsairs. It is more of a fan theory as I cannot recall any in lore explanation but I believe the main flaw of the 16th was ambition and that is a risky thing to let loose in the Imperium now.

[atomic pelican]

There are still living Sons of Horus

I believe some of their geneseed remains too, however little

[plush mason]

btw was the whole "no one can know the grey knights exist" thing just not around when DOW1 was made or did relic just ignore it?

[atomic pelican]

I think thats still canon and relic just ignored it

Matt Ward brain

[plush mason]

lmao

they ignored a lot of shit with the DOW titles in terms of canon lore so that was the expected answer

[atomic pelican]

Anything else in particular? I cant quite remember

I remember DoW3 having a non-twin wraithknight which borks canon but that was one of many problems DoW3 had

[plush mason]

in dark crusade the blood ravens sent 1 single company to the planet and yet said company was well over 100 marines lol

[atomic pelican]

LMAO

[winged panther]

holy yisus

[rose thorn]

hey so lore wise whats a sum up of the main knight houses?

[fierce pendant]

100 HUNDRED BANEBLADE MARS FACTORIES

This sounds like a fucking comedy skit

[scenic bolt]

I mean for all the razzing the ninja flips terminator armor got in dow3 they played fast and loose with lore well before then

[plush mason]

yes

[storm jungle]

I'd say take a look at the lexi for that

id list em to help out here but knight houses are not my specialty unfortunately

[rose thorn]

ah alright! thank you i always forget it exists

[storm jungle]

It happens

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Knight_Houses

You uh, got a long fookin list

reminder that most of these there almost got like no lore or just 1 sentence of it. So comb through them and you should get some results.

[plush mason]

the first house in the list doesnt even have a real name lol

[storm jungle]

Yeah like theres only a few knight houses with actual lore which come from codexes to offer the readers/players some choices

otherwise the others get jack

[scenic bolt]

ultimately the knights codices'll prolly have the most actual lore, seeing as they're a recent faction and underdeveloped most of it would be cribbing off codices anyway, maybe a stray white dwarf Q&A

[plush mason]

yeah if you know 40k lore very well most of dow's stuff is just comical i imagine

[rose thorn]

wow what a cool name! i wonder what thier lor eis

ah

ooo! what ar ethese dudes!

ah

yes

huH i wonder where gsc symbol came from

HASGFSAHFAHAHHA

WHAT HTE FUCK IS THI

S

[scenic bolt]

the finest models of the 1980s

[plush mason]

get high on something and im sure it looks better

[scenic bolt]

its up there with marneus calgar in a squat pose

[storm jungle]

WHERE.

IS.

THE

DINOSAUR

ARMREST.

[scenic bolt]

a dinosaur armrest? in this economy?

[storm jungle]

🦕

[scenic bolt]

For dinosaur armrest please send a marked envelope with £20.50 addressed to Nottingham

[plush mason]

ok

wtf is the Dornian heresy?

[rose thorn]

Fanfic

[plush mason]

k

[rose thorn]

A pretty good one tho

[plush mason]

wait. before the star ship trooper movies the cadians use to look like the colonial marines from the aliens movie?

"Prior to the Starship Troopers movie coming out, the Cadians resembled the Colonial Marines from Aliens." this is from a reddit comment so idk how accurate it is

[rose thorn]

I mean starship trooper book released in 1959,,, it was probably both.

I’ve seen teh movie but never read the book

I Never expect anything original from 40K lmao

[plush mason]

afaik the movie and the book have little in common. starship troopers that is

[rose thorn]

Ah I didn’t know that

[plush mason]

i havent read the book but everyone i know that says they have said the troopers in the books had basically space marine like power armor

[slender orchid]

First book with power armor, the words space marine, and yeah the power armor of the Mobile Infantry in the book is great

Has jump jets, a rocket launcher that has optional nuke rounds, rapid fire cannon, tactical uplink, etc. Starship Troopers the book is almost nothing like the movie though. Very serious discussion of nationalism, citizenship, civic duty, and the role of the military.

In the tiny amount of action scenes (think it is 20 pages out of the entire book) the MI are less "dumb grunts" like the movie, and more "terrifying elite capable of wiping out entire armies"

[lyric ember]

Does anyone know the size of an ark mechanicus in units of measurement

[wind flicker]

3

[lyric ember]

Huh.

That seems small

So is a blackstone fortress

And the phalanx

[storm jungle]

the Phalanx and the Blackstone fortress isnt there

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/294604960614842368/1018985168414978068/unknown.png?width=706&height=393

The fortress is much more gigantic

[shadow plover]

wdym seems small

14km is pretty massive

[storm jungle]

Also yeah lmfao

[wind flicker]

They're already breaking the megastructure rule

Any larger is lmao

[storm jungle]

Its the same as people saying an Imperator reaching the bottom of the Empire States Building is small

and im like

"Have you ever stood below the Empire States?"

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/745324840097153167/1013152232356724766/unknown.png

[shadow plover]

yeah and if any titan were bigger than that with all that armour plating and weaponry it's joints would probably crumble under it's own weight

[storm jungle]

Yeah and like 3-4 HH book covers have already given them a good enough size implication.

where they are sometimes dwarfed by the cities they are in and what have you

[wind flicker]

Constructs will always be smaller than buildings supported by gravity

Biggest tree vs biggest animal

[dry epoch]

“Really big.”

[plush mason]

yeah but dont some hive cities rise up into the stratosphere?

so titans would be specks in those cities

[storm jungle]

Well pretty much yeah

people just want Titans to be like as big as mountains for some reason for wank

[plush mason]

yeah mountain sized ones are stupid

[alpine ingot]

I love how fuck off stupid Space Hulks are in terms of size lol.

really puts in perspective why Orks would rather use small moons as troop transports

for an orbital landing

[vapid tiger]

Big

[plush mason]

1,250 feet

or 381 m

[plush mason]

so i dont think that graph is right cause iirc an imperator is less than 100m now

yeah less than 50m

[rose thorn]

Lmao I’m stuck between which imperial knight I should be,

I like all the non mechanicus ones

[slender orchid]

Think the new measurement is 55 meters or so. Which does feel... really small.

For a thing that is supposed to have a full sized cathedral on it's back.

[plush mason]

its 180 feet

[slender orchid]

The main ceiling of Notre Dame, not the towers, is 211 feet

So trying to hold old lore of Imperators having cathedrals on their back, with new lore of them only being 55/180 feet meters, just doesn't work. As a weapon of war, still bonkers big. Like, suspend disbelief or it would sink into the ground, unable to take steps big.

[slender orchid]

I like the Mechanicus better, got mine in House Vulker colors. But if you are gonna do Questor Imperialis House Griffith is almost over the top cool. They literally fight giant dragons in their Knights. Then make lances, swords, and chain swords for their Knights from Dragon bone.

[storm jungle]

The writer of Titanicus himself has said its fine

and he hates this size wank thing people does

Its literally still a walking giant and a death machine, it doesnt need to be the size of mount everest

[cerulean wagon]

based

[storm jungle]

Yeah he has spoken in an interview im way too lazy to dig up from dakkadakka

But he basically saw that one infamous Titan next to a mountain art and just went and slapped all the people involved with it for the most part, and also declared that as the head of the titanicus games he gets to decide how big they are

[wind flicker]

Wahhh epeen machine not continent sized

[storm jungle]

Way too small 😔

[rose thorn]

Yeah that’s who I was thinking! I didn’t knew about that tho that’s amazing lmao

[slender orchid]

I knew I should have kept you blocked Dil. Ignored the second half of what I said, just trying to pick a fight. I just keep expecting you not to troll.

[storm jungle]

LMAO

I mean if it makes you feel good do it.

[alpine ingot]

this is why, now and forever I will always love Warlord Titans over Imperator Titans.

[storm jungle]

Warlords just got that pauldron game down to a T

[alpine ingot]

Plus that cockpit though

just too good

[wind flicker]

Tbf you're trusting 40k numbers, its basically fluff text saying big. Cathedral is just for ceremony, not like theres service goin on

[storm jungle]

Pretty much yeah.

[alpine ingot]

now we have Warmaster Titans for people to wank on about size wise

[storm jungle]

Because its evil

Just look at the warhound

[brittle nebula]

The forbidden glory hole

[alpine ingot]

my question is, why does it have eyebrows?

[tiny raven]

how do you know its angry if it doesnt have them?

[rose thorn]

I hope the black stone fortress expansions come back

[unique berry]

Isnt it the cover of Siege of Terra?

[shadow plover]

one of the SoT novels yes, Mortis

[storm jungle]

☝️

[unique berry]

Good book

[sacred mauve]

Horus Heresy > Dark Imperium

Absolutely kino top tier novel. Probably the best I've read, next to Path of the Incubus by Andy Chambers.

[vapid tiger]

this chat reminds me of the necessity of genociding 40k fans

[storm jungle]

Krug, stop lmao

[tiny raven]

[ionic valley]

yeah no, first and only warning, don't use that vernacular here.

next bait earns you confinement time

[vapid tiger]

you will agree when the game releases and the discord is flooded with krieg fans and nazis

[ionic valley]

That is not an invitation to debate me. You have been warned. Either contribute to the server constructively or this server isn't for you

[vapid tiger]

I'm making absurd generalizations so okay but what if I use the vernacular against more specifically evil viewpoints that must be destroyed and happen to pervade the fandom

[storm jungle]

Do not post hostile messages like this without any grounds for it. It's fine to slap toxic fans down if they are being rude to the other members and you but there's a time and a place for it.

Aqshy made the point. Don't argue about it.

[chrome dragon]

Ah sweet discord schizos have invaded this server

[vapid tiger]

I've been here a while

[ionic valley]

@chrome dragon goes for you too

[plush mason]

iirc no to both

[fierce pendant]

If I understand in 30k IG was a Solar Auxilla or however you spell it.

• Solar Auxilia

[plush mason]

at first the primaris seemed to be free of the negative sides of the geneseed but later on those traits started to show

[plush mason]

i thought those where a special force in the imperial army

[fierce pendant]

I might be wrong then lmao

Hold on I have a perfect answer to this

@cerulean wagon

Help

[cerulean wagon]

wassup

[fierce pendant]

Winters questions

Ya prolly know.

[plush mason]

@cerulean wagon

[fierce pendant]

And I might get educated

on top of that

[plush mason]

that idk

[cerulean wagon]

Na, so at the start of the great crusade the imperial guard was the Imperial army (important distinction i'll come back too)

The gear was better for the troops, and was a lot more standardised across the galaxy compared too how it is now, with regiments having more varied unique gear. I don't think the aesthetic was crazy different, but it was enough to be noticeable

However Solar aux (as mentioend by brogryn) also existed, which were a wide spread elite force, something akin to the modern tempestus scions, who all had hotshots and carapace

solar aux being these boys
https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Solar2.jpg

Kind of yeah

ye the whole deal of 40k is gear has gone backwards

30k had better tech, a lot of it has been lost to time

[plush mason]

yeah man kind has been in a state of technological and social regression for the past 10k years

[cerulean wagon]

Going back to the mention of the Imperial army

The other main distinction is that the split between navy and guard didn't exist, so the army was full combined arms. Its why the crusade turning corrupt went south so fast, because officers of the army had direct access to both ships and the required troops to take worlds. Now they are split, and ships have a limit to the number of naval-men-at-arms they are allowed to have so that the navy cannot conquer planets alone, and the Imperial guard cannot travel the stars alone

[plush mason]

so thats why they are so separate now. thanks

[cerulean wagon]

No problem, i think its a very cool part of lore

part of the whole "the decisions that founded the imperium made sense once upon a time, but now are so shrouded as to cripple itself"

[plush mason]

yes

[cerulean wagon]

np

im uh... a bit of a IG goblin

[plush mason]

what did the imperial army kit look like tho?

like their armor and uniform

[cerulean wagon]

uhh we don't actually know? theres some art in the siege of terra books but most people dismiss it as "lore inaccurate" because its just cadian gear

[plush mason]

damn

[cerulean wagon]

https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steamcommunity/public/images/clans/34699872/8365b772bc5bab84e0a5f2b913a9091133ba3805.jpg

buuuut theres also older art like this

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/6/6e/ImperialArmy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130215084645

[shadow plover]

well 'cadian' armour is just the basic guard get up but is just called that because they're the most known regiment right?

[cerulean wagon]

yup

my best interpretation is that its effectivley still the same in 30k as 40k

but 30k boomers want to pretend its better

[atomic pelican]

I feel like Heresy 3.0 would be much improved by a wider faction range

Considering its uh

Just Marines + Custodes + knights

Oh and admech

Or mechanicus

[cerulean wagon]

think theres a guard update planned but 🤷

[atomic pelican]

Probably

[cerulean wagon]

i've ignored HH until its got actual content

[atomic pelican]

IMO Orkz and Eldar could just be given rules

Their models would all work

[cerulean wagon]

they were in the old edition so maybe

[atomic pelican]

Recreate that one ork BTFOing the emperor

[cerulean wagon]

Na kasrkin have never and will never be standard. The name alone is a give away (The Kasr region of Cadia), but they are also gene modified

[shadow plover]

and yeah HH era art shows their get up pretty well

[cerulean wagon]

They are elite, they are effectivley just an alternate stormtrooper unit specific to cadia

[fierce pendant]

The best kind. Thank you for the lesson skele

[cerulean wagon]

na they are blood angels

just wearing gold

sanguinary guard i think?

[shadow plover]

his bodyguard of whatever yeah that

it does

I'd probably read a bit more of the general Heresy before diving into the Siege, but it isn't mandatory of course

quite a few characters in the siege that are built on in the heresy before hand

but I don't think you'll be lost or anything if you decide not to read more

yeah finding physical copies might be a bit troublesome for some of the books for sure, they do reprints every now and then but not too often

I prefer audiobooks myself, can't focus on reading really

no problem! happy to talk about these things

[alpine ingot]

Loken and Garro's journey through the HH and SoT so far has been well worth my personal investment.

[barren tapir]

Cannot believe no one mentioned the guy with tall black hats when talking about the imperial army

Or the fokken greek/roman guys

Or the guys that had semi powered suits under long coats

[cerulean wagon]

you mean the ones i posted

[barren tapir]

No

[cerulean wagon]

which are basically just vostroyans

[barren tapir]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/4/4e/Urslavik.jpg

Urslavik

Or the geno 52 chilliad

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/9/9d/Geno25.jpg

[vapid tiger]

Cataphractii and tartaros by the time of the hh were standard

Cataphractii being more commonplace

Technically the indomitus pattern (the 40k variant) was also being used but in smaller numbers and without the crux terminatus

[vapid tiger]

I mean if you're obsessed with power levels uh

The most effective overall is tartaros armor simply due to being terminator armor that still allows the same mobility as a power armored space marine

It's as durable as indomitus termie armor but instead of being a slow, plodding, easy to hit tank the marine can move around reasonably well and roll sprint etc like titus in space marine

Cataphractii is considered the second best termie armor of all time, though it was more available than tartaros armor by the time of the heresy due to being the oldest pattern

It's quite slow, even bulkier than indomitus termie armor due to having powerful energy shielding that requires big generators, increasing the weight of the armor

Very slow and plodding, but termie armor with a built-in forcefield is very handy (normal termie armor's invulnerable save ingame isn't due to an energy shield contrary to what the deathwatch rpg claims, it's actually explained as being a way of showing just how tank-like and durable terminator armor is)

Indomitus aka "normal" terminator armor by the time of 40k is the worst of both worlds, it's as slow as cataphractii armor but has no shielding. It was originally developed as a way to quickly and cheaply produce terminator armor just prior to the horus heresy so as to mass-equip termie companies while tartaros was still being rolled out

By the time of 40k, so much knowledge has been lost that crafting just a single suit of indomitus termie armor is a herculean endeavor and only the most important and powerful force worlds tend to produce it unless a forge world is explicitly connected to a marine chapter

[rose thorn]

Welp time make lore about my totally not a self insert imperial knight pilot

[vapid tiger]

cataphractii and tartaros armor are still in use by both sides but exceptionally rare

examples include death guard termies in 40k being depicted as wearing cataphractii armor and thousand sons sekhmet termies using tartaros in 40k, with the loyalists just having access to the individual units from 30k

though it's noted that only the older chapters have enough of the ancient patterns to equip whole squads with them

[vapid tiger]

Centurion armor wasn't invented by marines

It was an stc design found by marines in the...I wanna say 36th or 39th millennium

And used as warsuits by them

Invention doesn't happen in the imperium

Unless you're Belisarius Cawl who relies on lazy writing to break the setting

[rose thorn]

Lmao the regimental standard’s depiction of chaos knights is unironically accurate

https://i0.wp.com/regimental-standard.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/image2-chaos-knight4.jpg?resize=760%2C665&ssl=1

It doenst mention the fact that these giant machines re probably piloted by like 50 demons and is like that child’s play scene where chucky is shown to have no batteries

[tiny raven]

40k does a poop job of handling realistic logistics

[old trench]

40k also shows us Imperial Guard tanks that look like they'd get bodied by a Panzer III, let alone a modern MBT. The bad logistics honestly doesn't even register compared to how sucky some of the vehicles and weapons look

😛

[plush mason]

hell the leman russ is just a mark 1 british tank with a turret bolted to the top lol

[dense glen]

In the lore, it's a tractor.

Or at least based off one

[barren tapir]

No, not really

It always was a military tank

[tiny raven]

it was always trash

[plush mason]

yeah

[alpine ingot]

the Leman Russ in universe is a massive piece of shit to anyone who has to crew the damn thing

the only reason the Leman Russ is even serviced is the sheer cheapness of the damn thing. who cares about quality if you can belt out a hundred of the fuckers for a fraction of the cost of other models.

[crisp heath]

it's effective for what it costs

if they could churn out baneblades for the same price they would do it

[alpine ingot]

then that'd break the power balance of the setting sadly, can't really sell the whole idea of the Imperium is slowly collapsing and losing when baneblades are being pumped out in mass.

[crisp heath]

right

that's the good thing about old leman russ that is made with what garbage the imperium has

[fierce pendant]

You could say they did in Dawn of War Soulstorm

[plush mason]

yeah 100 baneblades

granted that was all the baneblades they had. but thankfully they had all the parts and personnel needed to make more lol

[crisp heath]

yea the imperium just need to cap a few strategic points

and pay those baneblades with virtual currency

[plush mason]

lmao nah the baneblade needs a relic as well

[crisp heath]

and what about an endless supply of terminator armor

[plush mason]

just ask the blood raven. they have plenty

able to field 22 fully equipped terminators

[crisp heath]

plus reinforcements

[plush mason]

ye

[crisp heath]

with more terminator armor

[plush mason]

land raiders out the ass too

[crisp heath]

it turns that dawn of war 1 was a simulation from a votan's ancestor core

[plush mason]

lmao

[crisp heath]

some parameters were a bit off that explains the overabundance of resources

[plush mason]

and why a single blood ravens company numbered over a thousand lol

[crisp heath]

at least the imperial guard dying to hundreds/thousands was kind of lore accurate

[plush mason]

iirc the vendicare assassins didnt even have exodus rifles lol

just longlasses

[crisp heath]

try to not think too hard about it

[plush mason]

ye

[crisp heath]

was a good game where many hours were lost

[plush mason]

agreed

2 of the better 40k titles thats for sure

[crisp heath]

let me guess

the other one is space marine?

[plush mason]

no i mean DOW1 and 2

we dont talk about 3

[crisp heath]

what 3

there is a 3?

[plush mason]

nope

[spark relic]

The third game will never be recognized by the community, therefore it does not exist

Also it was just kinda boring tbh

[distant parcel]

god baneblades in dawn of war are so satisfying to use

[plush mason]

yes

11 barrels of death was like the truest line in a video game i have heard from a unit lol

the only downside it had was it was fucking gigantic and could get stuck if you wherent careful

[tiny raven]

https://tenor.com/view/wack-thatswack-hannibal-burress-ericandreshow-gif-20565184

[storm jungle]

Nah he always had an exitus.

I totally don't know this because I wasted 3k hours on the game looking at all the models

[plush mason]

yeah it looked like one but the unit tooltip lists it as a longlas iirc

[storm jungle]

Yeee thats mostly a programming thing

[plush mason]

lmao k

[plush mason]

so do heavy augmented tech priests even breath?

[cerulean wagon]

most do, with artificial respirators

others might use weirder tech

[plush mason]

k

[alpine ingot]

I've been meaning to go back and play DoW 1 but honestly I don't know where to start

[storm jungle]

Play Dark Crusade

DoW1 is jank

and way too difficult

[shadow plover]

there's also a mod for soulstorm that includes all the expansions and the main game in one .exe which also includes upscaled resolution and other QoL additions

I recently replayed the first one, good fun still

https://www.moddb.com/mods/tartarus-and-lorn-v-campaigns-for-soulstorm