40k-lore-chat

[slender orchid]

taking a break before I start the Siege of Terra books. Reading the Birth of the Clans trilogy for Battletech, since book 3 just came out

[dense glen]

Fancy version

[spark relic]

Speaking of non-warhammer books, do any of you know which Halo books cover the forrunners?

[slender orchid]

oh, you got the limited CE

[dense glen]

Ayup

[slender orchid]

Last time I read Halo novels there were only 6 of them

And no retconning had yet been done. Reach wasn't even out

[dense glen]

I have a lot of the special edition books

[slender orchid]

good times

[spark relic]

Oh nice, I've just got the regular one

[dense glen]

I do need to go through my book shelves at some point..

[slender orchid]

Oh man. If anyone wants to join me in feeling old, who here played Halo CE when it first came out?

[spark relic]

When did that come out?

[slender orchid]

(On November 15th, 2001, 21 years ago almost)

[spark relic]

Damn, I wasn't even born back then

[spark relic]

It's a great game though, I'm playing through the entire Halo series with my dad and we're having a blast

I'm so glad split-screen co-op was a thing back then

[slender orchid]

Legendary on The Library was the stuff of Rage.

[spark relic]

Oh yeah I've heard

I'm not a masochist though

So I haven't tried

[slender orchid]

Nah, masochism wouldn't exist until Halo 3. Mythic or SLASO difficulty. I was a dumb teenager with way too much free time.

[spark relic]

I'd recommend Legion as well, great Horus Heresy book about the Alpha Legion

[dusk widget]

Ah, yes, the Flight of Einstein, where Mechanicum priest Albertus Einstein is declared a heretic by Holy Mars for reinventing E=mc2 from basic principles instead of praying to the Omnissiah and following the correct rituals.

[hushed kayak]

head of the hydra is a good one after reading Legion. It goes more into depth about Alpharius

[alpine ingot]

Cryptum, Primordium, and Silentium are the 3 forrunners books.

[vapid tiger]

they gud

[spark relic]

Thank you friend

[lyric ember]

Does the imperium have good food

[crisp heath]

Depends on where you are

And what position you hold

[final spruce]

Yes they do , you gotta feed that aristocracy good after all

[crisp heath]

I’d say the high classes have similar versions to todays fine foods. While the guardsmen and others have bug MRE’s and corpse starch

and yes I said CORPSE starch

[lyric ember]

I wonder what burgers they have

[final spruce]

I remember reading Cain and this guy goes enough with high officers that he keeps referring to the Warmaster's personal cook, grox sweet buns and the like

Grox burgers most likely

[lyric ember]

Ewok burgers

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/lotr-meat-menu-its-back-gif-4516565

[lyric ember]

What are space marines favorite food

[wind flicker]

plascrayons

[crisp heath]

Grilled Eldar burgers. That’s a Salamander specialty

[spark relic]

Risotto but with orkoid fungi

[crisp heath]

…

[spark relic]

Hey, don't kick it 'til you've tried it

[storm jungle]

I know this is mostly a joke but. Proably High caloric intake (5k to 10k?), on average I believe they're a few hundred pounds larger than regular humans. I remember reading that space wolves have huge feasting halls I believe. I would wager barring chapter standards, they would tend to have food enhanced with extra nutrients but that might reflect standard cafeteria food. Maybe certain chapters have different taste, but being the most elite warriors in the galaxy fighting humanities scariest foes and genociding both aliens and their own kin at times, they probably get some defect meals.

[lyric ember]

Interesting

[storm jungle]

Theres also this

[shadow plover]

also the brains of their felled foes

[lyric ember]

In the forges of mars series the black templars get all pissy about being served normal food (they just scowl iirc) and a tech priest says to the rogue trader in the book something like "if you eat what they normally eat you'd explode"

Although it's been like a year since ive read that book take it with some salt

[spark relic]

Yeah the SW feast after successful campaigns and unsuccessful campaigns and to celebrate and/or remember their champions or fallen brothers

[shadow plover]

think that in one of the HH novels, might've been Prospero Burns, a human eats SM super food and gets pretty sick

[storm jungle]

Ah, so it must be your usual school food

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-lunch-lisa-simpson-lunch-lady-doris-hot-dog-gif-16331036

[cerulean wagon]

undercooked soggy gammon and incredibly dry chicken, with potato(?) and mushy peas

[lyric ember]

Idk what gammon is but thats what i had today actually (besides gammon)

[spark relic]

This according to Google

[cerulean wagon]

its salted pork roast effectivley

[lyric ember]

Ah

[cerulean wagon]

its like somewhere between pork and bacon

[lyric ember]

Yeah no we dont get that

[lyric ember]

Honestly that sounds pretty good

[cerulean wagon]

its real good

one of my fav roast meats

not very healthy tho

[plush mason]

tis healthy for the soul

[lyric ember]

The food of the heart, mind, and spirit

[cerulean wagon]

honey-glazed gammon is to die for

[lyric ember]

Would you die for it?

[cerulean wagon]

https://www.lovefoodhatewaste.com/sites/default/files/styles/custom_large/public/Honey Baked Gammon 692 x 900.jpg?itok=o8YJ6Ll1

I'd die for it

[crisp heath]

I love me a good honey ham.

[lyric ember]

I feel like ive had this before at a thanksgiving dinner once

[hushed kayak]

i was only 4 years old when it came out, i always play it on easy. Now playing it on mcc, and beaten every halo on legendary. I felt pain

[tawdry escarp]

Honey glazed ham is the bomb

Makes excellent sandwiches

[plucky moth]

mmm delicious prions

[alpine ingot]

CE on Legendary is annoying but manageable, 2 and onwards can push limits and cause migraines when played on Legendary lol.

I personally despise the change they did to the reach AI for the ship level, all the enemy ships will ignore your allies and hunt you down with laser focus

where on the original release they would actually go for your allies

[plush mason]

the whole point of nurgle forces is they are all but immortal and slower than a snail

[spark relic]

Let me break it down for you

"If everything is shit, why worry about it?"

That's the Nurgle follower mindset

[plucky moth]

I’d wager nurglites have ways around that

Like just removing their noses or having permanent sinus blockage

Dunno how they’d deal with their tastebuds tho

[shadow plover]

they'll learn to love it

[spark relic]

All the nerves are just deadened by the blessings they receive so neither the smell nor taste is a problem

At least that's my theory

Or it's like Jerk said and they just love the smell of putrefaction

[tardy holly]

Question I’m trying to find a desert world in Segmentum Pacificus to base my homebrew chapter

[shadow plover]

you can also create a new one and say it has always been there

[woven sandal]

This is how GW does it.

[tardy holly]

Wel

[woven sandal]

Hell, this is how Darktide works.

[shadow plover]

ye it's pretty much how everything new is introduced into the setting

[tardy holly]

That’s a beautiful response

I been combing the internet tryna figure it out, glad I can just make it up

[woven sandal]

40k as a whole is designed for stuff like that. The entire setting is intentionally designed to have lore deadzones and enough places that aren't elaborated on that you can basically make up anything in it and it'll probably work.

Want a cowboy Western Space Marine chapter based in the 500 Worlds of Ultramar? You can do it. Want a guard regiment based on Meiji era Japan? You can do that. Want a Chaos Space Marine warband that's based on obsessive cleaning? Yeah, you can probably do that too.

There's a Million worlds in the Imperium so 40k can cover every possible setting and story that GW or you wants to tell.

[tardy holly]

Great. Really the last thing I needed. I got most of the lore I want for the chapter the colors and then I have to draw up the chapter symbol but that’s it

[woven sandal]

Yeah. If you're ever stuck for what to do, always remember "It's always okay to make shit up. GW would do the same in your position."

[terse zealot]

GW made a fan version of the Reasonable Marines canon. Anything is possible.

[karmic dune]

what, really?

[terse zealot]

Retributors from the Astartes film. They are legit reasonable marines

[storm jungle]

Not really.

[barren tapir]

And they are not canon

And tbf, they just seems a raptors copy

Which are actually the real reasonable marines but canon

[plush mason]

raptors?

also "reasonable" and "warhammer 40k" dont belong together at all

[barren tapir]

Raptors, raven guard successor chapter

[plush mason]

i swear the space marines ether have 0 imagination when it comes to their names or way to much

[hushed kayak]

wolf priest lol

wolf guard

space wolves is the top of that list

[storm jungle]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Space_Marine_Chapters

[hushed kayak]

PISH POSH MY PEOPLE WHY DONT YOU

wait most of those aren’t blood angels. Nvm i’m happy with that result lol

[storm jungle]

Yeah the BA only got like uh

7 "Angels [something here]"

[plush mason]

that is very true lol

[hushed kayak]

also does anyone remember a big battle, where the death korps of kreig fought traitors. They asked for reinforcements, but were denied until Alpha legions came in. Which the Dark Angels came thru, and it became a huge blood fest

[storm jungle]

Vraks?

aka the battle where everyone fought in trenches for years and the entire planet was useless by the end

[hushed kayak]

which was because of a governor who turned chaos? then yes

[storm jungle]

yeah thats Xaphan

[hushed kayak]

i must read up on it. because i heard alpha legions just showed up, and left lol

[storm jungle]

The Alpha Legion had been drawn into the battle by the intensity of the fighting and their own desire to win the favour of the Dark Gods by compounding the slaughter for the servants of the Emperor. Lord Arkos was a useful and powerful ally for Cardinal Xaphan and the Chaos Lord's offer of aid was gratefully accepted by the Vraksian Traitors.

[plush mason]

wtf happened to Xaphan anyway?

[storm jungle]

Became a chaos spawn lmao

[plush mason]

lol

[hushed kayak]

wait what

[storm jungle]

he was holed up in his citadel for like years and the chaotic energies just formed him into one

his presence in the war is like not that important either, so this is passed over in just a few sentences

[plush mason]

lmao

[storm jungle]

The war as good as lost, Zhufor had departed but not before he'd had his final vengeance upon the Cardinal. Zhufor despised Xaphan as a weak mortal and so he had personally dragged the Cardinal from his wretched dungeon and left him to the Sorcerers of Nurgle. They in turn had visited a terrible end upon the Cardinal. Screaming in terror, Xaphan had been offered to their god and for Nurgle s pleasure he had become spawn - a giant mass of tentacles and claws, drooling and jabbering nonsense. Insane, the last of his reason and self- will torn away, the Cardinal was now an idiot-creature. Such was the fate of those that strayed too far from the Emperor’s light. The Grey Knights now unleashed that purifying light to purge the spawn from the galaxy forever Thrashing and wailing, the spawn that had once been Cardinal Xaphan was blasted apart by lighting cast from their nemesis force weapons

[hushed kayak]

wasn’t he the head of the planet

[plush mason]

at the start yeah

[hushed kayak]

wow, so this guy just rallied up so many people just to be brushed off? tragic

[storm jungle]

Yeah after that the Marines basically went

"You sit here. We do the job."

[plush mason]

yup

classic

[storm jungle]

Yeah he was just a political figurehead basically

after the war just went like

literally nowhere

he was of no use

[plush mason]

did vrask really have a part where new DKOK troopers just ran into a mine field to "clear" it?

[hushed kayak]

why do i get the feeling the Alpha Legion just went there on purpose. Just to attract the space marines into helping krieg. Even Tzeentch can’t tell if the alpha legions are helping or just trying to gain power lmao

[storm jungle]

But

they didnt help anyone

they bolstered the traitor forces to the end

some even making a last stand at the citadel the Grey Knights were capturing

[storm jungle]

Also yeah

[plush mason]

fail

[storm jungle]

its the origin point of a lot of stupid krieg memes

[hushed kayak]

huh, that’s something.

[plush mason]

why did the DA even care about the alpha legion being there tho? or where they just the closest chapter at the time

[hushed kayak]

good question, another one is why did the alpha legion barge there?

[storm jungle]

Its all explained but like

the vraks page is fucking looooooooooong

just go there and CTRL+F "Alpha Legion"

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Siege_of_Vraks

probably the easiest way

[alpine ingot]

Got to love how the DA's drive by'd the Vraks star port and rather than leave it useable for the Death Korps, they bombed the fuck out of it and made it useless

I need to say this; The DA's being so obsessive over one Alpha Legion warlord because of a rumor that he MIGHT know where some of the fallen are is the most generic DA storyline idea ever.

[plush mason]

like how did i know that was the reason? oh yeah cause its like the only reason ever given for the DA to show up at all lol

[tired umbra]

The only reason I want Lion to return is for him to smack the DA over the head for their hate boner for the Fallen

[plush mason]

same

i also want him to call belial or what ever the DA chapter master's name is a serf

or better yet tell him he is dumber than one

[regal glen]

is there Laozi analog in wh40k lore?

[storm jungle]

Because the DA have no creative writers for any plotline

literally every one of their books is about the fallen or the fallen are the plot twist antagonists.

It gets old super fast.

[alpine ingot]

tragic for DA fans when Ultramarines and Space Wolves have more interesting and varied storylines

[slender orchid]

Ultramarines ride Daemon Choo Choos and have skinless mutant friends.

Space Wolves win drag races with Orks

Dark Angels moan about The Fallen, mysteries, and Caliban forever

But they do have all knowing Jawas. Who teleport.

[woven sandal]

You know, it's okay to have more than one enemy. But GW always goes for the "It's CHAOS" twist in the end.

[plush mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGNqiBfYDs omg they have 0 AP...

[plush mason]

its funny cause this mean that khorne still hard counters the fuck out of them just not in the normal way

but hey at least with them you can get a charge off or two lol

[distant dune]

slaanesh bad? good keep it up

[plush mason]

agreed

oddly tho this unit does make khorne less of a hard counter to them

cause the main problem for slaanesh vs khorne is that khorne just deletes their front line long before they can get enough charges off to make it matter

but that is off set by the utter lack of all killing power so your hammer will have to do all of the work and they just wont last long enough for that to really happen lol

steel legion is for blitzkrieg style battles where rapid movement is needed to win

so the steel legion is almost always attacking and pressing the enemy line

and on the first 2 regiments you mentioned. cadians are just tougher versions of the normal guardsmen and are literally the base standard for the guard and the korps specializes in attrition warfare so they are best used in long slow grinding campaigns

no there is no guard regiment that specializes in foes. just battle types and conditions like the ice warriors being masters of winter warfare

they look like red army literally

[woven sandal]

Literal WW2 Russians in space.

[plush mason]

yup

[plush mason]

nah the guard trains to fight all foes of the imperium

[woven sandal]

You can't afford to be picky with who you fight in the 40k Universe.

[plush mason]

ofc the steel legion are almost always fighting orks cause the orks love Armageddon lol

[plush mason]

yeah this. even those factions and forces that specialize in one type of threat will still have to be able to deal with other types

[woven sandal]

Deathwatch are more of a kill team special-er forces type deal, as are Grey Knights. They specialize in killing Xenos and Chaos respectively, but if you gotta kill some orks because orks are the problem of the day, then you better kill some fucking orks bitch.

[plush mason]

cause more than one world has ended up like a mini gladius prime lol

[woven sandal]

Yeah.

It's not like Orks or Chaos or Tyranids are gonna wait for you to deal with the Tau you're fighting on whatever planet you're on.

Hell, half those will go down there because the fight's gonna be better than it would've been before.

[plush mason]

oh you thought the ork waagh was bad? well here is a drukari raid as well. oops they drew in some chaos followers too and well well well here come the nids cause why the fuck not?

oh and ofc the inquisition is on its way with some virus bombs just in case

so i heard the orks view demon invasions of their ships as in flight entertainment?

[woven sandal]

Yes.

[plush mason]

thats great

orks may just be one of the best things in 40k

[woven sandal]

Also, I remember once someone asked about "what if the Imperium showed up on Earth, what would happen?" on SpaceBattles and I argued that we'd become an artillery planet very quickly.

Seeing people talk about Earth making Guerilla Warfare regiments was very funny.

[karmic dune]

They're from the 2nd edition "historicals with lasguns" period of 40k

[karmic dune]

there were also the Mordian Iron Guard (said to be based on Prussian/USMC dress uniforms), the old Cadians (their old version was much more "modern infantry" than their current incarnation), the Catachans (Rambo/Vietnam), the Praetorians (Anglo-Zulu War British), the Tallarns (Arab influence)

interestingly a bunch of people say the Death Korps of Krieg are Germans but their uniforms are much more French-inspired

[woven sandal]

Yeah. When you say Anglo-Zulu War British, you aren't kidding. Out here looking to oppress the natives for some spices.

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Massacre_at_Big_Toof_River Although I'm pretty sure this is based on the Battle of Little Bighorn. Loosely, but still.

[plush mason]

no its based on ruik's drift

[woven sandal]

But yeah, a lot of IG regiments are very much based on historical military regiments.

The helmet seems pretty close to the WWI German helmet design.

[woven sandal]

I've never heard of this battle.

[karmic dune]

the helmet is a combination of German and French designs

[woven sandal]

Yeah. And sometimes they're depicted with Pickelhaubes. Although that's a pre-WWI thing.

[karmic dune]

it has the top crest and forward insignia of the Adrian helmet (French)

[woven sandal]

A Pickelhaube with a forehead insignia.

[karmic dune]

but has nape protection similar to the Stahlhelm

yeah

[plush mason]

yeah cause putting a giant ass eagle on a somewhat stalhelm like helmet is a good idea lol

[karmic dune]

fun fact: I believe the forehead insignia actually weakened the helmet's protective value

for the historical Adrian helmet

[plush mason]

ofc it did

the French had horridly stupid ideas about helmets

[woven sandal]

WW1 is the age of horribly stupid ideas in modern warfare.

[plush mason]

yes

they are always on iirc

[woven sandal]

Presumably a button.

[plush mason]

its force weapons that need to be activated like that

[woven sandal]

Why would force weapons need to be activated when they're the ones run by psychic bullshit?

[plush mason]

cause it takes effort on the part of the psyker that uses them iirc

[woven sandal]

Non Psykers don't use force weapons.

[plush mason]

non psykers cant use force weapons

[woven sandal]

Power weapons are the mundane ones.

[plush mason]

yup

[woven sandal]

Which is why those would be the ones that have a legitimate activation thing.

[karmic dune]

I think power weapons have a field generator

[woven sandal]

A power field requires power and therefore you need to be able to turn it off.

[karmic dune]

presumably that could be on or off

[slender orchid]

Multiple, multiple books include the phrase "thumbed the activation stud". Power swords are not always on

[woven sandal]

If for no other reason, then to save power.

[slender orchid]

Especially Eisenhorn's lightsab...... Relic power sword

[plush mason]

i think it turns off automatically when sheathed and on when drawn

[woven sandal]

Yes.

[plush mason]

so the warrior cant manually power down the weapon

not that there would ever be a reason to

[woven sandal]

Power sword - A machine creates a power field that tears apart molecular bonds
Force Sword - Powered by Psychic bullshit to achieve approximately the same effect as above, but with magic.

[karmic dune]

i think force weapons might be power weapons also

and then on top of that have psychic circuits

[woven sandal]

Maybe.

But I haven't read any of the force weapon lore.

[plush mason]

afaik force weapons only power source is the psyker

[slender orchid]

Some are. Some aren't. The staves definitely aren't, some of the swords... Seem to be?

Like there are books where a force sword is inert, just a sword, until a psyker does their mumbo jumbo. Then there are books where the force sword is a power sword, but gets EXTRA powerful when a psyker activates it.

Any time it is a staff, it is just a stick until a psyker does stuff

[plush mason]

its warhammer. the lore is always contradictory

[woven sandal]

Imperial melee weapons fall into 5 categories
Normal - This is literally a stick/hunk of metal
Chain - Imagine a chainsaw, but it's a sword
Power - Tears apart molecular bonds with a technobabble field
Force - Does the same thing as a power weapon but with magic
Archeo/Xenotech - Does other weird stuff not covered by the other 4 and are generally 1 offs/super special technomagic bullshit.

You can combine these categories BTW. Chainfists are Powerfists that are also Chain weapons.

[plush mason]

chain axe>chain sword btw

[slender orchid]

Chain Thunder Claw Fists in at least one instance (Carchaodon chapter master)

[woven sandal]

Imagine a Pair of Boxing Gloves with Chainsaw brass knuckles that also explode when you punch something.

[slender orchid]

A big fist weapon with a power field, only a chainsaw comes off the back of the hand.

[woven sandal]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chainfist

[woven sandal]

More typically used by Chaos Space Marines. But not exclusively.

[plush mason]

ye

[plush mason]

its an axe so its ofc way better than a sword lol

[plush mason]

tis the sneaky boi himself (thats a joke/meme btw)

[woven sandal]

Loyalist Terminator.

[slender orchid]

That is a SURPRISINGLY loyal space marine. Tyberos the Red Wake, chapter master of the Carchaodons

[plush mason]

chaptermaster of the shark marines

[woven sandal]

SPACE SHARKS

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Carcharodons SPACE SHARKS

[plush mason]

Tyberos is so big they had to use dreadnought parts to make his armor lol

[woven sandal]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mantis_Warriors Mantis Warriors.

[plush mason]

a very very very very fucked mantis

all space marines do

think of them as spec opts teams. they go in first and take key points

yes

[woven sandal]

A Space Marine Chapter is ~a thousand Space Marines but if you ever find 1000 Space Marines together fighting you should run the other way immediately.

He felt like it.

And yes.

Probably even more so because CSM forces tend to be more fractured and even more elite than normal Space Marines even if the fluff doesn't really depict it that way most of the time.

Also yes.

Unless you're on a chapter homeworld, a large gathering of Space Marines is the worst thing you can possibly come across.

Yeah.

[plush mason]

the guard are a literal chaff army on more steroids than have ever existed in all history lol

wipe out 18 guard regiments and they will thro 800 more at you if they want to take you down kinda levels

the guard numbers in the trillions

no

trillions

[slender orchid]

Side note since it got brought up: I hate 40k retcons and conflicts. I just finished Land of Dreams (Battletech) which retcons some stuff, but it does it in a way that makes the reader in-the-know rather than just ignoring the old lore.

[plush mason]

humanity numbers in the googolplexes lol

at least

[slender orchid]

It is just that horrible

[plush mason]

the population density of the imperium is just mind boggling

[slender orchid]

You could throw almost infinite Guardsmen at the Necrons or the Tyranids. They would not blink. Takes their toughest tanks or more specialized forces like Space Marines to win.

[plush mason]

yes

[slender orchid]

The Imperium is "millions upon millions of worlds" with individual cities on those worlds that number "eight to twelve billion".

The specific instance here is a big name character died in the lore a certain way. The new book changes that. Drastically. But spins it so everyone besides the reader and a few specific characters are all told the way it has existed in lore for over two decades.

[plucky moth]

Ant Colony architecture

[slender orchid]

Warhammer tends to be a bit more... Flippant.

[plush mason]

hell battletech's lore seems like a scaled down and more realistic version of 40k's in a lot of ways

[woven sandal]

GW's official stance is that everything in all of the books is canon but not all of it is true

[plush mason]

GW's bosses have "unreliable narrator" tattooed on them in a heart it feels like some times lol

[woven sandal]

I think it's the most hilarious thing TBH.

You wanted consistent lore? Fuckin nerds get fucked

[plush mason]

yup

[woven sandal]

Actual photo of maintenance on a bolter.

[plush mason]

"maintenance" aka just do random shit and pray it works

[woven sandal]

Laser scanning.

Probably

[plush mason]

scanning for gods only know what

[woven sandal]

Yes

[plush mason]

actually i doubt the tech priest even knows wtf she is doing

[woven sandal]

It's more like half a blueprint and a quick napkin drawing for the rest of it.

[plush mason]

ofc not. the only point is that humanity has forgotten how 80% of its own tech works

[slender orchid]

Meming lore real bad. It is a Bolter, not a titan.

[woven sandal]

Although I personally prefer a fairly high end interpretation of 40k factions' competence.

[wind flicker]

Blasphemy

[plush mason]

"technological regression" is one of the cornerstones of the imperium's lore

[slender orchid]

They know how basic things work. But you get to more complex machines, and yeah they basically treat them like a cave man who assembled a computer based on diagrams would.

[wind flicker]

Imperium cant even smelt metal anymore

[plush mason]

yeah

[woven sandal]

So like the Admech actually knows what the fuck is going on most of the time, but it's all very complex and innovations are a constant thing but also incredibly carefully vetted and don't go nearly fast enough to make up for losses of irreplaceable technology that the admech doesn't understand.

This is my personal interpretation that is only kinda sorta supported by the lore to my understanding.

[slender orchid]

What Gabe said. Only it got worse after the Horus Heresy, as half the Mechanicum turner traitor, taking their knowledge and toys with them

Blowing up a good chunk of what remained

[woven sandal]

Somebody fucked up putting it in whatever database you're looking at.

[wind flicker]

Thats the default Amazon date if one isnt provided

[slender orchid]

Wikis are edited by unreliable contributors?

[plush mason]

if they have an STC for it they can make it reliably but thats largely do to the STC doing most of the work for them so they still dont really understand it

[slender orchid]

Feel like you don't know what a STC is.

[woven sandal]

That too. The admech regularly sends down parties to explore the underworld of Mars for lost tech goodies.

[plush mason]

a blueprint that even a caveman can read lol

but yeah the bolter is far from lost tech so they know how to make them

[woven sandal]

Bolters and such aren't really that rare. They definitely know how bolters and plasma guns and shit all works.

[scenic bolt]

not that simple in many cases

an intact perfect stc is nearly unheard of

[woven sandal]

As far as I'm aware it is literally unheard of in modern 40k.

[scenic bolt]

so usually if you're making stuff off stcs its usually a bastardization of fragments of copies of copies

[slender orchid]

Finding an STC for how to make monomolecular blade edges was enough to get a few Guardsmen their own planet. Each.

[dense glen]

The ad-mech have a fully functional STC system. They just dont know it because those that find out get mind wiped by it.

[woven sandal]

Like, even the Panacea STC was just a fragment of an STC as far as I know and even that was so busted that GW had to break it with Chaos to not fucking totally destroy the setting.

[dense glen]

It's a blade that got used for Space Marines

[woven sandal]

Very very sharp blades.

[slender orchid]

Literally a blade whose edge is so fine it is a single molecule thick. Very sharp

[plush mason]

that story was crazy "hey toaster lovers. we found this thing that shows how to make better knives. want it?" -the admech "ofc we do here have a governorship of a planet as payment"

[woven sandal]

TBF, better knives are incredibly valuable.

[plush mason]

true

[woven sandal]

I'd have killed for a good knife a lot of the time at both my old jobs.

[slender orchid]

Chefs everywhere "I WANT ONE"

[plush mason]

yes

[slender orchid]

Is that a confession?

[woven sandal]

I'd have killed for a lot less than a good knife at my last job

[slender orchid]

This one here officer. Yep. That one.

[plush mason]

im sure those knives have saved the lives of many a guardsmen and space marine over the years sense

hell i would kill for a candy bar lol

[dense glen]

In regards to smelting metals, the Imperium can do this. They have feral and medieval worlds

Certain things dont require you to be a member of the mechancius to do

[plush mason]

ngl i bet the adamentium they use for like ships and stuff is a smelted metal

[woven sandal]

Don't guardsmen/SM also constantly fiddle with stuff as soldiers do?

[dense glen]

They do

Technically they shouldn't, but to each their own

[plush mason]

it drives the engiseers and tech marines crazy just like it does the engineers and techs of today lol

[woven sandal]

Better to ask forgiveness than permission

[scenic bolt]

also can mess with the machine spirits

[dense glen]

Like Salamander tank crews tune their engines to get more speed

Technically an executable offense, but commanders usually handwave it because of the role

[plush mason]

i wonder if there is any hillbilly armor used/made in the guard

[dense glen]

Yea

[scenic bolt]

like yea you tweaked your lasgun but now it has a tendency to fire when no ones around it

and also more commonly when someones head goes near the muzzle

[plush mason]

yes

[dense glen]

Yes

Technically

[plush mason]

the guard and the imperium as a whole is draconian as all hell and then some

[woven sandal]

Execution is not an uncommon punishment for just about anything in 40k.

[dense glen]

As you are messing about with it

Sneeze during a sermon?

Bullet to the head

[scenic bolt]

it's down to how your direct command is

[plush mason]

or burned at the stake

[dense glen]

Or both

[scenic bolt]

some regiments you get executed for dabbing some paint on kit, others you can mod it the hell up

[plush mason]

ofc

[woven sandal]

It is also not uncommon for guardsmen to friendly fire incident commissars that piss them off.

[dense glen]

Inquisitors are above most Imperial Law

[woven sandal]

Catachans in particular are notorious for it.

[plush mason]

hell wherent the high lords of terra making like 1000 new laws a day at one point?

[dense glen]

The Book of Judgement

[plush mason]

many of which where often contradictory and all had to be fully enforced lol

[dense glen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKoEH2R9z90

[plush mason]

yeah no logic has no place in 40k

[woven sandal]

"short" 5 and a half minute long.

[scenic bolt]

40k barely has any internal consistency so yea ditching logics good

[woven sandal]

Damn, late TTS was bloated as fuck.

[plush mason]

hell the imperium is only still alive in the lore due to plot armor and plot armor alone

nothing about it can work

[dense glen]

Imagine growing up on a civilised world, in the Imperium, having a decent quality of life, not getting recruited into the guard, never seeing a Space Marine, nor ever getting attack by pirates, chaos, nids, orks or those weird space elves

[plush mason]

im rooting on the nids myself. just nom it all and move on

[scenic bolt]

Im rooting for AOS success so they can end times 40k and begin anew

[plush mason]

that would be nice

[plush mason]

clean out all this bloat from like 40 odd years of continuous lore development

[dense glen]

I also laugh slightly that GW have reintroduced saving throw modifiers

Having gotten rid of them from 3rd

[woven sandal]

Warhammer 39k

[dense glen]

Also that Horus Heresy box got you so many models for a standard 40k army

[woven sandal]

I hope you like Marines

[scenic bolt]

Motto of 40k

[woven sandal]

It is entirely understandable that GW doesn't want anything that isn't Trademarkable for unit/faction names. Even if it does feel weird having 30 years of lore/inertia changed like that.

[slender orchid]

The Proteus? It is the oldest land raider. Around before even I started playing, way back in RT days.

Or do you mean the Spartan? Either way, getting them in (relatively) cheap plastic is nice

The HH box is AMAZING value for anyone who wants to play Space Marines in 30k or 40k. Literally pick up a heavy weapons box and you have an actually okay army.

[shadow plover]

Still waiting for the another heavy weapons set to drop 😔

I don't want heavy bolters or missile launchers

[slender orchid]

? Both are out, just supply is being gobbled up

[shadow plover]

no the one with the heavy flamer and big volkite

these two are still to be released

[slender orchid]

Ah, I stand corrected!

[shadow plover]

it's pretty odd, they all were revealed at the same time but these two have been lost to the warp entirely

no mention of them since

[slender orchid]

Derpy OG land raider

The melee leviathan got released before the ranged one, which was announced over a month in advance. Then there is Angron. Gloomspite book for AoS. Their pipeline is all kinds of borked.

[shadow plover]

yeah

[slender orchid]

I mean, eventually you hit the point I did. I have multiple armies, a giant table, terrain, and poor friends.

So I just invited them to my place and they play my armies against me. Eventually some wanted armies I don't have, finally bought their own.

Still play at my place, only now my pool table, my dinner table, and my coffee table all have some sort of game running

Bolt Action is the newest thing we all hopped on. Lord knows everyone has played a WW2 game (or 20). You can buy an entire Bolt Action army for as cheap as $80 if you catch them on sale on Amazon

[tiny raven]

All my minis from all my games eventually end up as heroscape units

[slender orchid]

D&D or other RPGs are my graveyard for old stuff

[final spruce]

Tempestus Scions are their own thing, they are stormtroopers that are deployed alongside the Imperial Guard to do spec ops

But each Regiment has their own stormtroopers, for cadians its Kasrkin and for Krieg I believe its engineers

[storm jungle]

Yeah the Scions are a few leagues above them, the other Imperial Guard regiments just have their own stormtroopers if they are large enough but thats not usually always the case

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tempestus_Scions

[final spruce]

The Scions come from the Schola so their training are on par with Sisters, Commissars and Inquisitors techncially

[cerulean wagon]

40k spec ops my beloved

[final spruce]

The Schola Progenium is a schooling system that grabs promising young people, orphans of war officers and heroes of the Imperium to turn them into officers or people with power : Sister of Battle, Scion, Naval officer, Guard officer, Commissar, Administratum and even inquisitors

But once they become young adults they are sent to their respective factions

[storm jungle]

Not that much, basically same as how a commanding officer in some war might get to order spec ops forces around but they're usually there to do their own thing and leave

The lexicanum is your friend

go read most of it there, explains it better

[final spruce]

Be careful about the latter, since the 40k lore is so bloated each person tends to have their own views on things, sometimes completely separated from the current lore GW has going

[plush mason]

so where do dark angels get their recruits from?

[storm jungle]

As said above its many random worlds.

They are a fleet based Chapter. They don't really got a protocol for it, they just nab em.

As the Dark Angels are no longer based on an actual world, they draw their recruits from a variety of planets, mainly highly primitive worlds. The Dark Angels have sworn oaths to protect thousands of worlds which, in return, supply potential aspirants for the chapter.

Representatives of the Dark Angels visit each recruiting world once within a normal human's lifetime and take the strongest juveniles from the population. Each recruit is thoroughly screened, and from the moment he is accepted into the Chapter as a Space Marine his past becomes irrelevant.

After the Heresy, the Dark Angels recruited from a single planet (known as the Plains World). Sometime before the 41st Millennium a group of returning Deathwing found that their planet had been overrun fifty years earlier by Genestealers, with only a few untainted humans remaining. The Terminators, whose duty and honour required the extermination of the genestealers, prepared themselves for battle. Because the odds of their success were nearly non-existent, the Terminators engaged in their native death ritual. Instead of anointing their skin with white ash, they anointed their armour. The Terminators cleansed the world and rescued the enslaved populace, and in honour of those few Terminators, their armour was ever after white. Meanwhile, the Dark Angels leadership, the Inner Circle, recognized the folly of relying upon one planet for manpower and so diversified their recruiting grounds

[plush mason]

so that why the deathwing are white

[storm jungle]

Yeh.

[dense glen]

They were (in the super old lore) heavily influenced by Native Americans..

[storm jungle]

Oooft good times

but good that they dropped that motif fast

[plush mason]

and their world was called the plains world?

cultural insensitivity must just be a native english trait

if not just flat out racism

[storm jungle]

Yeaaaah old GW was bad

Pygmies Moment™️

[plush mason]

lmao

[dense glen]

At least cricket survives

[plush mason]

who?

[dense glen]

Cricket. its a sport.

[plush mason]

oh that

[dense glen]

it literally gets a passing mention in one of the Cain books (i think) about a sport played by the Praetorian Guard, which is called Grasshopper

[plush mason]

ofc the praetorians play it

they are ofc just british colonial marines in space

recaf is just tea right?

[storm jungle]

Coffee

tea is still tea

[plush mason]

oh so i bet the praetorians dont even drink recaf. just tea lol

[plush mason]

ofc what would britian be without its tea?

[cerulean wagon]

actually valhallans drink tea

[rose thorn]

OOOO WE TALKING DA?!

[cerulean wagon]

its called tanna

[plush mason]

you mean they dont just drinks kegs of vodka like water?

shocking

[rose thorn]

I love fallen✨

[plush mason]

given their heavy USSR look and all

but yeah i can see some preatorian guard officers drinking tea out of those hiddious litte cups the british used to use

porcelain i think they where made of

[plush mason]

yeah them

they are literally just sci fi british marines lol

[dense glen]

Zulu era

[plush mason]

the tunic is 100% just the red coat

they didnt change a damn thing with it

[plush mason]

yup

[plush mason]

hell the only thing that makes this guy 40k is the chest armor and the arm lol

[unique berry]

Fanboys of the Iron hands lol

[rose thorn]

Isn’t it kinda weird that the legion named dark angels, which is named after a book about a Catholic hiding and coming to terms with his homosexuality, how did the lion a; come up with the name dark angels b; not expect some kind of irony in it

Like

That’s a bit on the nose

[plush mason]

he didnt

big e named them iirc

the lion is one of the ones that didnt change his legion's name when he took control

[rose thorn]

OhHhhhhhh

Wait then why the fuck did the emperor name them after that

[plush mason]

cause big e loved being a hypocrite and using religious texts and images for everything even tho he hated it

[rose thorn]

Ah, fair

‘Ah yes my first space marine chapter, I shall name them after a book about a religious man with a dark secret. Nothing could possibly stem from this’

‘They totally won’t become hyper obsessed with religious iconography and hide a dark secret ‘

[plush mason]

yeah the emperor was more than a little idiotic with a lot of things

[mellow sandal]

Praise the Emperor!

[rose thorn]

Fuck which chaos god was it that literally said when talking to teh emperor

‘You are not as smart as you believe you are’

I think it was khorne?

[plush mason]

Tzeentch i think

or it may have been khorne

[rose thorn]

Oh yeah it was tzeentch

[plush mason]

and funny enough

malcador 100% agreed with it

the emperor was a literal idiot that thought he was the smartest human ever to live lol

like you wana know how many space marines there was for each world in the imperium to enforce imperial law and stamp out religion?

there was enough for 3 per world

[rose thorn]

The emperor and the last church is an amazing example of the truth of the emperor

Taht he is so egotistical and so beyond humanity he can’t understand simple human concepts

[plush mason]

i love the meme that short story spawned

[rose thorn]

Mwah it’s amsizng

And he is so egotistical he kept the last church up and went into it because he wanted a fuckinh trinket

Which, I don’t remember did he take the stop watch or a burnt piece of the church? Or maybe the stone

[plush mason]

i dont think he took anything. he wanted the priest

[rose thorn]

Ahhhhh

That makes zero sense

[plush mason]

so when he set fire to the church the priest walked into it and burned with it

[rose thorn]

I guess he would want to kinda physically outlive the priest if he were to take him as like ‘yeha i outlive religion’ or what ever the fuck

[plush mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSEVCs8o0H8&t=13s

[rose thorn]

The emperor with his infinite knowledge expecting his sons to follow hsi every command with absolute zero care towards almost all do them

And then the only one who he actually showed care for betraying him as the emperor will literally just end up killing the entire galaxy

[plush mason]

after watching that video of the last church i was made very aware of just how idiotic and small minded the emperor truly was

its why i say his real origins are that he was just some warlord that found some crazy advanced gene augment tech from before the men of iron rebellion/age of strife

and more or less made himself into a new man of gold

[rose thorn]

Makes more sense then the 8 pyker thing, if all it took was a handful of pykers to become an immortal super god then the imperium would have an army of emeprors

Like yeah

They are powerful as fuck pykers

But so every god damn named pysker

Oh yeah and that entire fucking legion of pykers he had

PH YEAH AND THAT OTHER HANDFUL OF SPACE MARINES THAT ARE PURELY PYKERS

[plush mason]

the imperium often calls the truth heresy so thanks for supporting my head canon 😛

[unique berry]

Np 👍

[rose thorn]

Chaos gods are cooler gods anyway

Shit I’m so hype for the dameons codex

[clear timber]

I believe I smell a smelly smell that smells... heretical

[plush mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvx7lPz0Mg

this song just fits the orks so perfectly

most of 40k is hella dark and dower and then here comes the orks at that just a bunch of heavy metal hooligans that just wana fight and have fun

[broken bridge]

https://youtu.be/4LDVlOgldm0

[plush mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBi-o2doFdY

so these guys are the small elite attack squads where as the drop troops are the mass airborn army right?

so the tallarn literally have vedoan garb or atleast a few do

[rose thorn]

So did death guard make goo guns before or after nurgle infected them?

[rose thorn]

W- why was my message noot nooted

[plush mason]

https://tenor.com/view/noot-noot-meme-noot-noot-black-background-gif-26002556

[rose thorn]

WHEN WERE THE GOO BLASTERS MADE?!

[plush mason]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Plague_Sprayer

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plague_Marine#Weaponry

[rose thorn]

It

Doesn’t say?

[plush mason]

yeah

so if you kill a demon in the warp is it dead forever or can it just reform somewhere else?

[wind flicker]

depends, you can permanently kill a demon, but the killing method depends

[rose thorn]

Usually it just fucks off to what ever god created them

But if you have a weapon that destroys a soul then that kills the Daemon for good

And the god will have to just reform them back to usual in the next batch o daemons

[plush mason]

i see

[rose thorn]

If you want to get rid of a daemon the easiest way is just to catch it in something and bury it in the desert

Which is still a lot of hard work that you need to find a way to lure the daemon into said object with out risking being consumed.

I think there are ways to brute force them in a method like soul stones

[plush mason]

so the emperor's sword could kill a demon permanently. a good measure of how hard they are to deal with lol

[rose thorn]

Lmao yeah, hell I’m pretty sure Belakor is the only daemon with the ability to destroy other daemons with out just consuming them whole

I mean gods can eat daemons but again, just using the energy to make more dameons

[plush mason]

i still dont like calling them daemons cause they just arent

[wind flicker]

also the demon can still be reformed, but its like stitching a corpse back together versus molecularly reassembling them

[rose thorn]

According to bile they are just physical manifestations from mass amounts of energy in one place

[plush mason]

so even killing the soul wont ensure it stays dead just makes it harder for it to come back?

[plush mason]

yeah but isnt bile famous for rejecting the gods existence even as one stared him in the eye?

[rose thorn]

Tbh that’s why they knights vs daemons are so great it’s always like,,

‘WE MEET ONCE AGAIN GREY KNIGHT BORDIVAR’

‘Lord of change V’ayi’Za, it seems we do meet once again…’

[plush mason]

and still the daemons of 40k are nothing like actual daemons of myth and are literally just judeo-christan demons

[rose thorn]

It’s always power rangers bullshit

[rose thorn]

Yeah, he’s a bit of a,,,

[tiny raven]

inb4 voltron

[wind flicker]

the soul destroys the individual but not the concept

so the demon of crispy curly fries can still be reformed because the concept still exists

but a PERSON transformed into a demon, COULD be functionally permanently killed

[rose thorn]

The individuality of the daemon if it was born a daemon could be Erased

[wind flicker]

same way the chaos gods are the most prevalent concepts/emotions in the warp

yeah so demon x could come back, but they'd be pretty different

[plush mason]

i see

so just like how it works in dragon age

[wind flicker]

easiest analogy I can think of is the dr who drs

[rose thorn]

But, ‘boy now only 299 blood letters hate me and are hunting me down constantly’

[plush mason]

dont worry im sure the replacement will come to hate you too

[rose thorn]

It’s weird you don’t hear much about mortal to daemon transformations

I expect it to be much more common in AOS and 40K lore besides daemon princes

I heard a theory that ppl who die in the slaanesh’s 6 circles become daemonettes as they always die in the most pleasure pain mom max way possible (with one exception)

AAHHHHH daemons ✨

[tiny raven]

[cunning wigeon]

In AoS the uh skullreapers and wrath mongers have some of their unit being half bloodletter

Or whatever their elite infantry is called

[barren tapir]

Small elite attack squads are the elysians, harakoni are a middle ground between massed aerial assaults of the tahanel regiments and the small squads of the elysians, harakoni are loosely based on the american 101st, at least that is what many say, i'm not too much convinced

[barren tapir]

Reform, unless specific events happen, mostly the destruction of the energy that make them permanently kill them

[barren tapir]

Indeed, it is called tesseract vaults, and grey knights use them to imprison demons that are too strong to kill

[barren tapir]

It is less the sword itself and more the immense energy with which such sword is imbued, which is also exactly opposite to that of the demons

[barren tapir]

Yes, but he is correct, they are not gods, they are just powerful entities with an extreme ego, and bile also question their "free will" as they are nothing more than coalesced thoughts, they all abide by their nature, with not really free will, they are more akin to animals

[barren tapir]

It is quite present tbh, with varying degree of willingness and easiness to spot

[plush mason]

if they where based on the 101st they would be small elite units

its the 82nd that is the larger force of the 2 airborn units

ofc both are still small and made for forward drops behind enemy lines

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tahnelian_Airbourne

[plush mason]

yeah the funny thing is bile is closer to the imperial truth than even big e was

[rose thorn]

counter argument, what says you arent allowed to say they are gods, they create life, gain power from worship, and are all more powerful then any of the other existing gods in 40k.

They give god like gifts to mortals who follow them

[barren tapir]

They don't create life, they like to be worshipped, but doesn't really affect them much (direct worship i mean, the people thinking that worshipping them they become more powerful actually work), and they are the strongest entities in the warp, but not the most powerful in all the setting

[rose thorn]

They do gain power through worship, that’s how the warp works, and their instincts are literally their personalities

Worship could just be casting magic and learning in the name of a god

Or torturing a civilization until a portal to hell opens releasing thousands daemonettes

Literally Slaanesh was born from mass amounts of indirect worship

All daemons are individualistic, while 99% of them are extremely similar as they are just creations of their gods. They do have some forms of differentiating traits

[rose thorn]

And the settings argument doenst matter we are takings about 40K

[barren tapir]

It was you that brought it in, not me

[rose thorn]

Yeah they are the most powerful in 40k

They are stronger then any god in 40K

[barren tapir]

That is not worship, that is exactly what i mean though, it is not worshipping a entity that give it power, it is you thinking that it has power that it give them power

Although more than even that is just doing acts that fall under their dominin

[barren tapir]

Nope

[rose thorn]

Literally are though, what god that is not one another has physically beat one of them

[barren tapir]

Look, big E alone managed to send them all away in fear when he obliterated horus, lately big E destroyed a lot of nurgle garden managing also to wound him, and that is without considering the TAU entity that scattered away the demons that were attacking the 4th sphere of the tau when in the warp

The clown god of eldar also play with slaneesh regularly for saving the souls of harlequins

The warp entities are among the strongest, there is no doubt on that, but they aren't the strongest

[rose thorn]

None of them were beaten, the clown god will never actually be able to beat the shit out of Slaanesh. And they didn’t run away in the fear their herald was literally removed from existence,

[barren tapir]

I mean, they are scared that big E could get out of the golden throne too

And what about ynnead too

[rose thorn]

Have they ever interacted?

[barren tapir]

Beaten yes, destroyed no that is right

[barren tapir]

It was stated to be growing stronger, to the point that it could defeat slaneesh alone

[rose thorn]

Ynnead and the gods?

[barren tapir]

The interactions were mostly between its avatar and slaneesh followers

[rose thorn]

Like they are ever gonna get lore to use that point

[rose thorn]

And it never will, the eldar gods were like snacks to Slaanesh, at slaanesh’s weakest Slaanesh consumed like 90% of the eldar gods

I see no reason a god that was either just born or was completely forgotten and just returned would be able to defeat Slaanesh

[plush mason]

eh the thing is. none of this hits all the real point bile was making

it doesnt matter that the gods are powerful they still dont deserve worship or even respect

[rose thorn]

Fair enough, i can agree to that

[plush mason]

if every human in 40k designed that no gods are worth worshiping then they would all lose a vast amount of power from that view alone

there was a time when humans stood to surpass the gods

in fact that was the whole point of the imperial truth but ofc the emperor did it wrong

[rose thorn]

The chaos gods are horrible and should die off, I’m just always sick of seeing posts and shit always like

‘The chaos’s gods aren’t gods and demons are demon.’

Like that’s the entire appeal they are gods or darknesss and horribleness

[plush mason]

if the truth had been "gods exists but are irrelevant to us" the effect would have been far greater

[rose thorn]

Lmao yeah definitely

[plush mason]

it also would have helped stop big e himself from being seen as a god

[rose thorn]

Time to move to an important matter

Think the lion will return?

I just want Luther lmao

[broken bridge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi5QHI3VXzg

[storm jungle]

My favorite 40k youtuber has posted

🙏

[cunning wigeon]

youre a fan of diabetes?

[storm jungle]

noooo

[frosty cobalt]

Luv the dude, totally mot biased in any way shape or form

[storm jungle]

Respects both AOS and 40k, the sign of a true gigachad

[frosty cobalt]

Yea i love his vids, great voice too

||I still love OIs voice more 😳😜||

[grand minnow]

Wish i could try more AOS, but pancreasnowork is a bro

Glad hes getting attention

[hushed kayak]

what do you think is overall, an amazing power armour to use as a space marine?

[atomic pelican]

Legion Power armor?

Or well, ideally Terminator plate but, you get what you get

[hushed kayak]

excluding terminator armour

any legion type/overall armour

[atomic pelican]

Im a bit confused by the question, since Legion power armor is p much better than any other like, normie human power armor

Ohh

Probably the most recent then, MKX primaris stuff

[hushed kayak]

makes sense. MKX armour beats my favourite MKIV any time of the day. Specifically the headhunter version

Then again, they just mash other pieces that was greatly ideal from every past armour and put it together.

[plush mason]

do loyalist space marines still use the autocannons?

[atomic pelican]

Dont think so

Man carried autocannons and reaper chaincannons are unique to CSM I think

Atleast on tabletop

Lorewise, Chaincannons are def just a CSM thing because they were old great crusade weapons

Autocannons I think either could use rlly

[eternal citrus]

There's assault cannons, with terminators, not sure how similar they are though

[plush mason]

assault cannons have greater rate of fire but shorter range than autocannons

[atomic pelican]

Assault cannons are p much the loyalist chaincannon

Albeit marginally worse

[rose thorn]

Because the wARrrrPpppppp

[atomic pelican]

Chalk it up to the greatest minds of the traitor legions putting 8 barrels on their rotary cannons instead of 6

[rose thorn]

for fallen angels would creations of bile or black legion be more fitting

[plush mason]

so pert made them got it lol

[atomic pelican]

LMAO

[plush mason]

he is like the only guy in the traitor ranks with a working brain lol

well him and bile

[grand minnow]

Why are they called NecrONs when most of them are Necroff?

[hushed kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-emperor-prohibition-hammer-warhammer-gif-14213065

[dense glen]

Depends on far down the rabbit hole of Chaos they ha e gone.

[spark relic]

Why are knights so damn cool?

Every time I get reminded of them I can't stop thinking “holy shit what the fuck nothing can top this”

If I could paint I would have a knight army

Alas, I have been cursed with shaky hands

[atomic pelican]

IMO knights seem p easy to paint

Bigger models are actually easier in my experience

Vehicles and terrain are relaxing for that reason

The hardest models are tiny infantry

[spark relic]

Yeah but the details

And the patience for modeling and painting is also not something I have in abundance

But an Alpharius can dream

I just saw the new knights vid from PancreasNoWork and needed to go here and gush over them a bit

[shadow plover]

I was a bit intimidated by the knight abominant but it turned out to be a pretty easy paint job in the end

albeit I had just got my airbrush so that made the panels a joy to work with

[barren tapir]

So, no one is gonna say how much the helmet of the imperial navy breachers slaps? Ok then, i will do it myself
Those damned helmets are fokken great!!

[quick jackal]

Knights are the one army I'd still be interested in collecting, but I would probably heavily customize my knight to look more like something out of WW1

[rose thorn]

I think the mentality is like, it’s a bit expensive model therefor you need to put lot of work on the model to make your money feel worth it

[quick jackal]

Like, retain the heraldry, but more practical armor with loads of rivets, maybe some sandbags strapped to it...

[echo shadow]

So, how exactly powerful were the C'tan in their actual forms?

[quick jackal]

We'll find out when GW needs more money.

[rocky dune]

They literally ate suns, so pretty strong I’m guessing

[cerulean wagon]

imperial navy

its kinda in the name

[fierce pendant]

felinids confirmed

[cerulean wagon]

dude im so glad the c.a.t is finally getting a model

i love those things

[fierce pendant]

It does look neat

Cyber-Altered Task

[cerulean wagon]

they are basically unmanned drones used for exploration

usually sent ahead of breach teams boarding ships or, more importantly, space hulks

[fierce pendant]

They were mentioned in some novel/s too

I think

[cerulean wagon]

ye

[fierce pendant]

Or I'm tripping balls and mixing it up with different sci-fi book entirely

ok good

[cerulean wagon]

they are in one of the cain books, the SM group that picks him up uses them for space hulk exploration

[fierce pendant]

Yeaaah thats the one

I only know because I read only Cain books and novels

[wind flicker]

Its so cute

[cerulean wagon]

good

honestly? probably some of the best 40k books

and ye C.A.T are great

[quick jackal]

They need to add the Imperial Navy as a tabletop faction. You just show up with a 20 foot spaceship model on a trailer in the parking lot and declare an orbital bombardment on every table in the store.

[cerulean wagon]

guard used to be able to do that with deathstrikes

[quick jackal]

The navy minis are definitely awesome looking, but there are things that are simply out of scale for the tabletop.

[sweet abyss]

If you want a comparison, the C'tan were so powerful, that destroying them destroyed the parts of reality they 'represented', which is why only one C'tan was ever fully destroyed.

And even then, that C'tan left a death curse which is the origin of the flayer virus.

[echo shadow]

Was the funni virus man truly destroyed?

[sweet abyss]

Yes, the flayer is fucking dead.

[echo shadow]

Oh yeah, the Emperor only fought a shard of the Void Dragon, right?

Or is it unconfirmed?

[sweet abyss]

Im not sure if it was just a shard, but from what I've personally seen I am going to take it as it just being a shard.

The Void Dragon is one of the most powerful C'tan and is one of the few who werent completely shattered like the rest.

I bet even Big E would have major problems arising if he had to fight a fully formed Void Dragon.

[echo shadow]

"My trusted steed, we must carry this foul beast to Mars."
"Yes, Emperor."

Oh yeah

Another question

Would the entire system be in for some trouble if, for some reason, the Outsider came back?

Since he's the only C'tan that wasn't glassed or something

[sweet abyss]

I think in lore, if I am recalling correctly, the Outsider is both unshattered and the most powerful C'tan as a result of absorbing a gigaton of lesser C'tan, which would probably mean everyone would be in trouble if he wanted a snack.

Especially considering the Necrons destroyed their weapons of mass destruction before going to sleep.

Which means they have to survive until more C'tan killers are made.

[echo shadow]

Alright, thanks for answering my questions

[sweet abyss]

No problem.

[plush mason]

so does an ogryn grenade gauntlet work like the marauder's gauntlets in star craft 2?

[final spruce]

Havent played SC2 but in short, ogryn puts hand in it, can wack enemes with it and pepper the enemy with a pretty high rot with bomb grenades before charging in

[wind flicker]

Personal artillery

[plush mason]

the marauder in SC2 has these two gauntlets that are just rapid fire grenade launchers

https://tenor.com/view/marauder-starcraft-sc2-terran-cheer-gif-17656589

[crisp heath]

I just realized how much those guys look like Centurion armored space marines.

[plush mason]

lmao

their suits are based off the firebat suit

they basically have 2 heavy flamers on their hands

[crisp heath]

I need to play this game again.

[tiny raven]

wasnt starcraft supposed to be a 40k game initially

[storm jungle]

Yeah it was

[woven sandal]

No.

[tiny raven]

the duality of man

[woven sandal]

Everything I've seen indicates that only Warcraft was supposed to have a relation to Warhammer initially.

[storm jungle]

Its why the Protoss/Terrans/Zerg are just diet Eldar/Marines/Tyranids

but yeah Warcraft has a lot more evidence/legal stuff over the years showing it had warhammer roots

but we finally got terran marines in 40k now so its all good

[woven sandal]

Everything comes full circle eventually.

[storm jungle]

I genuinely love how its the exact same helmet/visor

[woven sandal]

Terran Protoss marines.

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/marine-starcraft2-terran-portrait-gif-15223402

[tiny raven]

primarch raynor

[cerulean wagon]

lov 🤢

[storm jungle]

[woven sandal]

Leagues of Votann? More like Yards of Votann.

[storm jungle]

Miles of Votann.

[cerulean wagon]

can votann hurry up and get the vrakks treatment

[woven sandal]

What is the Vrakks treatment? Also, doesn't Vraks only have one k?

[tiny raven]

google told me the same

[cerulean wagon]

i dont care enough to spell it right

vrakks is a 3 book series that has kind ruined IG lore and is the reason most krieg fans are insufferable

The treatment is the planet itself runs outta resources and dies

[tiny raven]

mood

[woven sandal]

How did it ruin IG lore?

[cerulean wagon]

its one of 2 books that spawned memes spamed to this day with regards to guard mortality rates and the ways they handle combat. In vrakks case it takes a regiment known to fight to the last and always be willing to sacrifice for the greater good and turns them into mindless drones that clear landmines by stepping on them

[snow fern]

People call them german, but I'm pretty sure that coat of theirs is french

[cerulean wagon]

its french ye

even down to the red lapels

[storm jungle]

Why not

not wehraboo enough?

[fierce pendant]

Ayo its time to bombard our own trenches. Don't forget to run our convoys exposed even though the opponent fighting against us has shown they're quick to adapt lmao.

[slender orchid]

Weeaboo being the insult for special individuals who worship Japanese culture. Wehraboo is a portmanteau of Weeaboo and Wehrmacht for people who are way, way too into the German military of WW1 and 2

[cunning wigeon]

usually just as strange as weeaboos

but instead of place, japan

[slender orchid]

Weeaboos are just annoying. Wehraboos are often closet Nazis

[cunning wigeon]

its uniform, germany

[woven sandal]

There's also Teaaboo, Freeaboo, Ouiaboo and probably some other aboos I don't know the term for.

[cunning wigeon]

yeah but if you try and say that they will just get pissy over the distinction between the germans and the nazis

[slender orchid]

Play Bolt Action. Some people are wayyyyy too into their Waffen SS or other German army.

[cunning wigeon]

I did know the term for people obsessed with celts but cant recall it now

so many dumb Americans claiming to have Scottish descent...specifically William Wallace or Robert the Bruce

[tiny raven]

teabooooo

[woven sandal]

They are quite fun terms.

[cunning wigeon]

sounds like one obsessed with the Chinese or English

[woven sandal]

It's English.

[cunning wigeon]

Don't think the Celts would like to be grouped in with the English

In fact I know they wouldn't

[tiny raven]

i just wanted to say teaboo

[woven sandal]

Also, the most common usage for Freeaboo is Japanese guys that are really into American culture, and the image of some Japanese guy who doesn't speak a lick of English wearing a cowboy hat is amusing to me.

[plush mason]

lmao

[cunning wigeon]

what does someone obsessed with England that isn't English even look like

cant picture it

[tiny raven]

living in hawaii i contantly see japanese tourist wearing cowboy hats and cowboy boots

[woven sandal]

An American that's really into Doctor Who mostly.

[plush mason]

lots of union jack stuff on them

[tiny raven]

i lived in texas for awhile and saw it less than i saw it with japanese tourists

[woven sandal]

I imagine.

[tiny raven]

really into the BBC ;P

[woven sandal]

But c'mon. What's more American than a ten gallon hat (that you can own at a reasonable price in Japan)?

The answer is nothing.

[cunning wigeon]

Patriotism

[plush mason]

false patriotism*

[slender orchid]

No. Bad spray with water bottle

[tiny raven]

thats all teaboos are :p

[cunning wigeon]

shame

was hoping they dressed like colonial British

or the Beefeaters

[woven sandal]

A Colt SAA? HAHAHA No
A V8 Mustang? Good Luck
An F-150? HAHAHAHA NOOOOOOO
A Pair of Jeans and one of those Cowboy shirts? You might as well just dress as a salaryman
A Ten Gallon Hat? Now you're talkin

[tiny raven]

ive seen quite a few tourists in cowboy boots and daisy dukes

[plush mason]

you know those god awful union jack pants and what not? thats what a lot of anglophiles/teaboos wear lol

[woven sandal]

I love those shoulder mounted lanterns. They're so Late 19th century sci-fi.

[dry epoch]

Lovely bit of steampunk creeping in there.

[timid solstice]

Most American thing? 3D printed guns is on the short list for sure.

[woven sandal]

Well yes, but we are assuming that freeaboos aren't interested in prison even if it's a Japanese prison.

[timid solstice]

Country, 100% country. Japanese country is big in Japan. Cowboy hats and all.

Of course, whenever I here about freeaboos, teaboos, commieboos, and Wehraboos, it's always in relation to military stuff. Like how commieboos can't stop jerking it to the T-34

[woven sandal]

I think with the prior two it's more cultural and similar to weeaboos, but for the latter two definitley.

[timid solstice]

I do know about Francophiles, what would be the weeaboo name for them? Bagettaboos?

[woven sandal]

Ouiaboos

[dense glen]

I mean, the T-34 was important in the fact that whilst it wasnt the first tank with sloped armour, it was the tank that scared the germans into making the Panther.

[plush mason]

then what was the first?

[timid solstice]

Well... no. The Panther was more of a result on the Tungsten bidding war that Britain was waging. The T-34 was kind of shit. Especially ones out of Factory 183. Also, the sloped armour meant jack all when almost any hard hit on it shattered it like glass because of how ridiculously hard the Soviets made the metal.

[timid solstice]

French Renault I believe.

[plush mason]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_FT#:~:text=The Renault FT (frequently%20referred,within%20a%20fully%20rotating%20turret.

[timid solstice]

As you can see, many of the surfaces are sloped. Now, this is a WW1 design but the idea of sloped defenses go back even further.

[plush mason]

aside from some parts of the front most of its armor is flat

and the turret is round not sloped

plus sloped armor is only really effective when the angle of the slop is steap

[cerulean wagon]

actually not true

at the time it was fielded initially the armour on the T34 was enough to stop rounds from the german standard AT (50mm) HOWEVER, they specifically had issues with their driver hatches shattering (which were later replaced with better quality ones)

[timid solstice]

BEHOLD, THE FIRST SLOPED ARMOUR

[plush mason]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOMUA_S35 this is the first tank to have sloped armor btw

[timid solstice]

There's a book, I need to get it, but it told that most T-34s were being taken out by Panzer 3s. See here:

The armour of the T-34 was extremely brittle and would shatter under impact. While it didn't penetrate, the armour would spall and account for roughly 50% for the casualties within the tank

[cerulean wagon]

ye, thats not the sloped hull, and thats what happens when thinner metals are hit with HEAT (germany used a lot of heat n APHE munitions)

you can find similair results on german tanks

especially on their later war heavies

[timid solstice]

punched right through

[cerulean wagon]

with what tho?

[plush mason]

likely a tiger or tiger royal

[timid solstice]

Panzer 3, this was during the start of Operation barbarosa

[plush mason]

i doubt that highly

[cerulean wagon]

that is right on the edge of the drivers hatch

but ye theres a lot of wild shit from ww2 with tanks

like the panther could be knocked out with smoke grenades/shells to the engine deck

[plush mason]

if they didnt just break down on the way there like a lot of early panthers did lol

[vapid tiger]

yo do we got a wehraboo in here

[timid solstice]

The Panther... was also a pile of garbage. Germany couldn't make enough replacement parts by that time. In fact, a lot of late German tanks were garbage. Tiger, the Ferdinand, The King Tiger. They weren't made well due to the collapsing wartime economy.

[plush mason]

ye

[cerulean wagon]

and just due to germany not making efficient designs at all

[plush mason]

also true

[vapid tiger]

ww2 german engineering deserves to be made fun of 24/7

[cerulean wagon]

the only exception being the stug

which is probably the only thing they got right

[timid solstice]

Like hell, the Ferdinand would blow up going up a hill! That Diesel-electric engine was a fucking bomb!

No, the stug had problems. There's a reason you don't see any in Africa

[cerulean wagon]

like, its still wild to me that until the really late models, Pnz 3s n 4s could be penetrated with .50 cal

[cerulean wagon]

it had problems, but as far as effectivness for the price

[timid solstice]

A lot of the tanks in WW2 are either overhyped or outright written off.

[cerulean wagon]

except the matilda

matilda is based

i will die on this hill

[timid solstice]

Tank destroyers were a technological dead end but they are sexy

I'll die on the hill of 'the Canadian Skink Tank is the best'

[cerulean wagon]

anyone, gonna say to prob leave that one there and get back on topic

[timid solstice]

Skink my beloved

[cerulean wagon]

technically supposed to be a lore chat

[plush mason]

well history is technically lore 😛

[timid solstice]

Tank lore is lore! But yeah, lets leave it at that. I do need to get more books on tanks and shit

[dense glen]

Well yes, actually. The German High Command was getting reports of the Russians fielding tanks that had "impregnible armour" - they captured T-34's and started copying the design elements, but because it was peasant technology, this clearly needed to be made "better". Except it still used a underpowered petrol engine..

[cerulean wagon]

we usedto have a history chat, but unfortunately people can't behave with history so we can't have nice things

[dense glen]

I also.. have a large tank picture gallery from the Tank Museum

[timid solstice]

See... about that. One of the prevailing myths was this was done by German's after the war. It looked better on paper that the Russian's had superior tanks than them being completely incompetent. Better to say 'oh, it was Russian armour' than 'I didn't know what I was doing'. Also, a lot of that was perpetuated by the Soviets as well... for sales propaganda. After the Iron curtain fell, we got a hold of the records. There's a book, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Soviet-Casualties-Combat-Twentieth-Century/dp/1853672807 that goes into detail about that.

Also, it should be said that not ALL T-34s were built the same. Tanks from factory 183 were... death traps

[dense glen]

The Ragnarok is also a mashup of the KV-1 and KV-2

I also wonder if in 40k they have museums of this sort of stuff, but obviously cleaned up against Choas.

[timid solstice]

I wouldn't think they would. Information for the Imperium is most likely heavily controlled.

[dense glen]

Maybe of Imperial Vehicles

[cerulean wagon]

Some worlds have museums, yeah, its down to the local governor basically

[timid solstice]

Think there's one on Tertium? If so... can we visit it?

[cerulean wagon]

would be cool if there is but i think we are focused more on key locations (industrial sectors or areas where corruption has been left to fester)

[woven sandal]

I totally could imagine that we could go to some sort of museum to sabotage the armor there.

[timid solstice]

"Retrieve a holy artifact/destroy a chaos idol" mission maybe? Smash and grab old tech for supplies as well like Dad's Army!

[woven sandal]

Yeah. Or something like that.

[timid solstice]

Maybe the Moebians are using it as an FOB, a museum can be a bit of a vault sometimes with the underground archives they usually have. Storage for weapons and supplies.

[spark relic]

Push the Cart but it's a Demolisher tank

We just steal it from the museum

[slender orchid]

I get back on and see I started a whole thing about WW2. And I start twitching with how people are not well informed, or weirdly champion a specific vehicle. It is almost always tanks, sometimes planes.

[frosty cobalt]

Most people on their computers couldnt be assed to learn the specifics of vehicles that were used in a war 60 yrs ago

So they just like what they like

[slender orchid]

On an actual 40k note, I am trying to figure out what is THE POINT of the Leman Russ Executioner. The Demolisher already existed, and seemingly does everything better, but doesn't risk exploding.

Is it just to have the gratuitous plasma tank?

[scenic bolt]

in terms of tt or 40k in general

[slender orchid]

I mean, either? Both?

[scenic bolt]

range would be one factor in both

although in earlier versions the demolisher was also more heavily armored to compensate for the range decrease

[slender orchid]

In every edition I've played the executioner has been bad. Almost as much as the vanquisher. The Demolisher and standard cannon are the solid picks.

On TT the range decrease isn't noticeable unless you are playing on a huge table. In lore the Demolisher doesn't have range problems, it has accuracy problems. It is a siege piece.

But the executioner, this big expensive, prone to exploding plasma variant... Seems to have no operating niche

[cerulean wagon]

The main benefits of the executioner is that, lore wise, plasma is the equalizer. The more you can throw out the bigger the problem you can solve

[slender orchid]

Worse than the vanquisher or standard battle cannon versus tanks. Not as good as sieges as Demolisher. Not as good as anti infantry as the punisher, etc.

[cerulean wagon]

So although on TT it just functions as an elite infantry slayer, lore wise the executioner plasma cannon just kinda, pops vehicles

[scenic bolt]

it's sorta like a generalist weapon akin to the bc

[slender orchid]

But it is worse than the BC at both jobs, at least on TT. In lore I'd rather have a comparable or slightly inferior gun that doesn't suddenly turn the tank I'm in into a bomb.

[cerulean wagon]

Plasma lore wise is a lot more reliable than TT, especially in tanks

The russ executioner has a lot of fail safes and special vent mechanisms to stop an overheat, the only instance of one going up i'm aware of was a deliberate safety override to use it as a bomb

not to say it can't happen, but effectively you have a lower collateral general purpose gun, that can provide support for infantry with less shrapnel issues, while still being able to take out light vehicles and tanks

ofc a Vanquisher is gonna out perform it for AT duty, and the battlecannon probably does marginally better for extended ranged tank on tank engagements

its a lot of give and take

[scenic bolt]

in lore as opposed to pure tt there's no ammo considerations with plasma, if you got air you got ammo

so for a logistics concerned theatre it may make sense

[final spruce]

I thought plasma used hydrogen canisters

[slender orchid]

That is another "depends on who is writing" thing

[scenic bolt]

gotta love 40k consistency

[uneven tide]

Dont plasma weaponary req a lot more maintenance though? If it breaks its a lot harder to fix........... and also the machine spirit could be "spicey" xD

[cerulean wagon]

they take more to maintain yes, but to be assigned to maintenance of an executioner is seen as a blessing

they are incredibly rare and revered

[plush mason]

im sure more than a few engiseers would jizz their robes if they got to work on one

[granite prairie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OXjNpNpWXw&ab_channel=Dr.ChrisRaynor

[alpine ingot]

Luetin released an hour and a half video on Garro, Love how it only covers just the beginning of his journey.

[barren tapir]

Yes, these ones are ultra honour guards, their helmets are particular

[shadow plover]

Silver Templars pretty sure

Ultramarine successors

the codex should tell that iirc

[vapid tiger]

I mean in the rpgs plasma ammo is very rare so

Depends on the writer

This is why we must abolish 40k

and then have just me write it

pay me 100k a year for it

u will hate it

[spark relic]

I'd pay you double that if you wrote Sanguinius as being alive

[tiny raven]

triple if you kill em off again in the dumbest way

beware the peanut allergy

[spark relic]

Cool fight? Nah, anthame in the back by Erebus himself

[vapid tiger]

he dies from a peanut allergy during the fight with horus

[spark relic]

Literally kills Horus himself and then dies because the plot demands it

[vapid tiger]

He's about to win and then bites down on a snicker's

dies instantly

[spark relic]

You're not yourself when you're hungry

Maybe that was Horus’ secret

He was hungry

[alpine ingot]

Horus fell to chaos not because of any ambition he had deep within his heart, but due to the fact that he had been driven mad by the sensation of cold air chilling the tips of his ears to an unbearable degree.

[woven sandal]

My distaste for the Mk.7 helmets is once again brought forward with this cool ass helmet.

[nocturne jetty]

What's gonna be the 5th Career?