hivescum-class

[silk flint]

That does make sense because I heard they got nerfed.

[silk flint]

But at least hivescum plays like a crackhead should

[unreal stirrup]

knife > shiv tbh

the cleave nerf basically just revert it back to launch value

because they buffed it for some reason

[keen sapphire]

i think i figured it out

spiral shivs are better for melee build, straight shivs are better for ranged build

[bronze glade]

i'm sorry to say

but you don't have it figured out

mk1 is still just generally better lol

[keen sapphire]

not if u got shit melee

[bronze glade]

?

[keen sapphire]

the lights arent great unless ur melee build and the heavy being singletarget sucks pretty bad also when u arent melee build

the heavy being an AOE on straight is a lot more useful

[mighty belfry]

Ima be real

I literally never use the heavies on mk3

Ever

[bronze glade]

same

[mighty belfry]

It is straight up just better to light spam across the board.

[keen sapphire]

also

straight is a lot better for light spam

[bronze glade]

aka the hive scum weapon design philosophy

[keen sapphire]

the spiral shivs got like 0 cleave now

on light

[keen sapphire]

theyre basically just the light with more damage

its not bad

[mighty belfry]

The animation timing sucks.

It's almost like Bonesaw where there's just a chunk of time solely for the sake of winding up the heavy.

For arguably, not the greatest payoff.

While mk1 heavies are just far more reactive and quick.

At most, I'd say maybe the mk3 heavies are good to start off a fight but after that, it truly is just a light spam weapon.

Along with PAs for single target.

But the single target dps is far worse.

[keen sapphire]

unless ur melee build

er

yea

nvm

[mighty belfry]

I straight up wouldn't use mk3 on melee build

The thing I think Mk3 shines at

Is toxin builds

Where you just constantly light spam to build toxin with Coated Weaponry.

Because the light spam is particularly fast compared to mk1 with the better cleave.

[bronze glade]

w-what

[mighty belfry]

I wouldn't.

I mean you can.

[bronze glade]

your loss lol

mk3 shivs are some of the most fun to be had with melee hiv

[mighty belfry]

I've used them before. It literally is just light spam. For the fact that they're arguably worse than mk1

they're also somehow the most brainless to me at the same time 😭

[bronze glade]

dreg rager cosplay

it's pretty brainless yeah

but it's funny

[unreal stirrup]

I have hiv too

[bronze glade]

for a game or two

[bronze glade]

nice, i paid for mine

[unreal stirrup]

yeah mk6 knife sweep because it actually fun to Play

[mighty belfry]

Like I was using them but, they really do just get boring after a few games.

[bronze glade]

that's fair

it's very one note

but every once in a while

i get the itch

to do the stupid

[unreal stirrup]

taxe also got upscaled hard because there zero crusher

[keen sapphire]

mk3 is a good secondary for ranged build

[unreal stirrup]

💀

[keen sapphire]

since it lets you deal with hordes

to an extent

[mighty belfry]

Me, a mk3 enjoyer, laughing at the peons

[keen sapphire]

the spiral ones are too weak without melee build

[unreal stirrup]

mk3 knife light is uh

dogshit

the angle is horrendous

vermintide 2 level of hit detection

[mighty belfry]

I never just do light spam

[unreal stirrup]

you can do pa l2 l3 for horde ig

but that take stamina

[mighty belfry]

You are literally regenerating that stamina back to full before you even get to the next chain

Unless you're dodge spamming to hell and back

In which case, stop it.

If anything, I'd be more worried about that on mk6

[unreal stirrup]

mk6 can do 2l 1h loop

also just having better angle

hyperv stack

[mighty belfry]

I mean, I'm not arguing that it's better than mk6

But I'm arguing that it's better than mk6

Idk, I just find mk3 more fun

[unreal stirrup]

you deserve to get pinned down

fair

[mighty belfry]

And it's not like it's really that big of a deal to me. I do a fuckton of damage with it either way so

[unreal stirrup]

my problem with mk3 is like the attack angle

[mighty belfry]

Special + light followup really makes you feel like a drug addict shanking somebody in Tertium

[mild tundra]

shivs are just not worth it compared to tactical axe if that's what yall are talking about

[mighty belfry]

Shivs are still very good. But tac axe is also very good.

[mild tundra]

they're great, but the tac axe is just better

they're a solid second choice if you don't wanna use the tac axe for whatever reason

[unreal stirrup]

taxe have much better horde clear while shiv better against cara

but now there zero crusher uh

[mighty belfry]

And uncanny nerf so I suppose tac axe is kinda inching forward more now actually.

Well, for most people.

Because I don't use uncanny on shivs

[unreal stirrup]

the difference in horde clear is big in havoc

[mighty belfry]

I don't even use it on knife anymore.

[unreal stirrup]

but in havoc caxe is better anyway

[mild tundra]

horde clear is about the same with both

[unreal stirrup]

it's the best scum melee for a reason

[keen sapphire]

does it?

[mighty belfry]

Rashad compared to any weapon on Scum is literally the hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby analogy

[keen sapphire]

when i used taxe i was basically 100% fucked by hordes

[mighty belfry]

...

[unreal stirrup]

how

💀

[mighty belfry]

You don't have Brutal Momentum on it, do you?

[keen sapphire]

what mk are u supposed to use

[unreal stirrup]

7

[keen sapphire]

i didnt even know it had it

[mighty belfry]

Mk7, Brutal Momentum + Headtaker

[mild tundra]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0b2f3f1-af23-4598-8224-ab2a4f7bc9c7/rat-7
best hive scum melee build tbh

[keen sapphire]

when tf did taxe get bm

[mighty belfry]

You haven't been living .

IT'S BEEN THERE

SINCE RELEASE

[unreal stirrup]

jittery

[keen sapphire]

i dont remeber even seeing it

[unreal stirrup]

ok pack it up

bro live under a rock

[keen sapphire]

mid

[mild tundra]

jittery is one of the best hive scum abilities lmao

[mighty belfry]

why is there a +2 stamina perk on it

[unreal stirrup]

idk how to say this to you but the build is uh

mid

[mighty belfry]

I s2g if its to say its for attack speed

[mild tundra]

idk how to say this but uh
i can almost solo havoc 40 with it ☠️

[unreal stirrup]

yeah if only scum didn't have an extra dodge

[mighty belfry]

Also.

Street Tough

Get this build away from me.

[unreal stirrup]

slippery customer

😭

[mild tundra]

LOL alright

[mighty belfry]

I legit hate that talent so much

[keen sapphire]

cause all ur doing is spamming dodge

but u aint gonna be killing much

[mighty belfry]

Alright tbf

[unreal stirrup]

no pulverizing strike either

[mild tundra]

i'm consistently the highest damagae and kills in havoc

[mighty belfry]

I do think this build can kill quite a bit but uh

[keen sapphire]

ok then ur team sucks ass

[mild tundra]

ah yes, all 2000 teams are ass

[keen sapphire]

thats because pickpocket and needle gun

needlegun needs a nerf

[mighty belfry]

I don't think it's necessarily optimal to say it's the best melee build

[keen sapphire]

yeah thats not even a melee build either

needle+pickpocket is literally just

[mild tundra]

thats a cherry on top

[keen sapphire]

wait no yeah thats literally just a tox build

tox build but with rampage for some reason

[mild tundra]

it's mostly melee, but it can do some range

[unreal stirrup]

4 stack dependency

[keen sapphire]

if u want a real melee build i can post mine

i call it crackhead gaming

[mild tundra]

lol

[mighty belfry]

anyone who knows a good melee build knows it has to have the heavy sword

it is simply not optimal if it doesn't

[mild tundra]

lol

[mighty belfry]

also maybe this was a mistake on your part

but tac axe in build

footage below is shivs

[mild tundra]

yea thats the old version of it

imma just remove that video

[mighty belfry]

It does result in some confusion tbh

[unreal stirrup]

gaslighting

[mild tundra]

and it was before the pick pocket nerf

[unreal stirrup]

pickpocket "nerf"

[mighty belfry]

that also literally does nothing for melee builds

thanks fatshark

[unreal stirrup]

although desperado needler was funny

[mild tundra]

killing specials and elites is important

just because its a melee build doesn't mean you shouldnt have ANY ranged

[keen sapphire]

i still think vets survivalist should give the % based on how much ammo the gun normally has

[mighty belfry]

You do have ranged. You just don't need it to be infinite ammo.

[unreal stirrup]

No

[keen sapphire]

doesnt matter rn with it broken af

[mild tundra]

you dont wanna run out of ammo

[mighty belfry]

You can choose to do that but, it's not necessary by any means ime

[unreal stirrup]

it got fixed but ok

[mighty belfry]

I never do.

[keen sapphire]

oh it got fixed?

didnt see it in the patch notes

[keen sapphire]

yes

getting a single bullet on revolver sucks

[mighty belfry]

Because I'm aggressive enough that I'll actively push out of my way to kill things with my melee because it's fun

[keen sapphire]

and yea theres the "well technically infinite ammo if u aim" but u only gonna shoot once every 5 seconds?

ur gonna fucking die bro

[unreal stirrup]

I mean it not even a problem in havoc unless you just spam ranged

[keen sapphire]

with the amount of enemies u run out of revolver ammo pretty fast

even with withering fire letting u clear hordes in like 4 shots

[mighty belfry]

That's a major weakness of revolver tbf

[unreal stirrup]

why

are

you

[mighty belfry]

But I also don't really use zarona revolver on scum

[unreal stirrup]

using

revolver

for

horde

they can give revolver 50% more ammo and it will be usable fr

[keen sapphire]

hordes of anything

like it goes through like 3-4 enemies a shot unless its ogryns

like plasma except its way more awseoms

and satifsiyng

and also u can run exe and marksman for gaming

[unreal stirrup]

I'm just gonna pretend you didn't say anything

[mighty belfry]

I mean

I'ma be real

Not a bad setup

I personally prefer exe with WS for revolver myself

[mild tundra]

@unreal stirrup why so defensive lmao

[keen sapphire]

i use the precise revolver

[unreal stirrup]

yeah that not a problem

problem is using it for horde clear then complain about the lack of ammo

💀

[bronze glade]

revolver for horde clear

[keen sapphire]

i dont mean infested horde

again

i mean horde of anything

the general term when u have a lot of an enemy

ragers maulers shotgun gunners etc

also heres my crackhead build https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1c45920-ee2f-4a9f-9b83-0fe3f2405695/crackhead-gaming

i can get a video for it later

[flat mist]

i do like that u pick slippery and jittery bc they're based but no sample collector with max stimm is bonkers

also uncontrolled aggression just seems utterly pointless

[mighty belfry]

[flat mist]

also you've picked a shitload of conditional damage buffs over permanent 15% elite and monstrosity damage from all sources

supremely questionable

[mighty belfry]

I mean it's not bad but yeah the max stimm without sample collector is a... choice

I also feel shivs in general just benefit a lot more from bottom left

[flat mist]

wdym bottom left

[mighty belfry]

Right

Wow.

[flat mist]

kekw

[mighty belfry]

I'm fucking tired.

This has been a long day for me, excuse me.

But yeah, shivs are like, perfect for bottom right

Especially with Perilous Scumbustion down there

[flat mist]

agreed but sometimes its fun to skip that whole section to pick up other stuff

[mighty belfry]

I mean that's fair.

I suppose from a "meta" perspective, bottom right is ideal but, really do you need to be fully meta with this dumb ass class? 😭

[flat mist]

its so rough that the whole package with pocket tox & chd is 8 points

can spend like 3 points on adren and have 5 to play with

[keen sapphire]

i can get a more damage than 1 15% perk

also i could change the stim tbh

might just make it only ability regen

i consistently hit 1mil+ with the build in auric

ya auric is auric but like

auric might aswel be uprising with it

[mighty belfry]

That really just boils down to Scum just being a stupidly powerful class tbf

[flat mist]

lol you mean like quick and deadly?

[mighty belfry]

o v e r r a t e d

[flat mist]

exactly

[keen sapphire]

ya

sometimes i oneshot a mauler from full with a light

[flat mist]

20% crit = worth it despite low uptime

15% damage = absolutely not worth it

[keen sapphire]

i mean

i spam dodge

so its basically infintie uptime

[flat mist]

uh punching above ones weight always affects the mauler

[keen sapphire]

ya

[mighty belfry]

You'd do that, with the node that just straight up gives you 15% damage against that particularly target

Also

[keen sapphire]

but i do it wihtout that

[mighty belfry]

No it is absolutely not infinite uptime.

[flat mist]

its just an objectively wrong choice but ok

[keen sapphire]

and also i get 15% from the crit buff

[mighty belfry]

This is why I say it's overrated.

[keen sapphire]

when im spamming it ya

like this shit is crazy strong

[mighty belfry]

It literally isn't. it has to be an actually successful, timed dodge.

You can't just dodge spam and proc it constantly.

[flat mist]

quick and deadly is getting 50% uptime at most

[keen sapphire]

it just has to be a successful dodge

[flat mist]

its usually lower

[keen sapphire]

when i run into a crowd of enemies and spam dodge its basically always successful dodging

[mighty belfry]

Yeah. That happens a lot less than you'd actually think.

[keen sapphire]

i hear dodge noise

[mighty belfry]

It's not.

[keen sapphire]

when i dodge

so i know when i dodged

[flat mist]

@keen sapphire just run the uptime mod and take a look

[mighty belfry]

Actually. Lemme see something.

Because I do in fact have that mod and run dodge blessings

[flat mist]

Letting you 🤽‍♂️

[mighty belfry]

I just hope I have one with Riposte because I think that would really make my point here.

[mighty belfry]

I'd pride myself as being someone decent at this game

That last buff down there with the question mark (idk why that's happening) is Riposte.

I have 36.8% uptime on a talent that's active for six seconds after dodging.

Quick and Deadly, is only three

[flat mist]

does that if its not currently equipped iirc

[mighty belfry]

Aaah.

[unreal stirrup]

quick and deadly is alway active yeah

oh nvm im stupid

butterfly

[mighty belfry]

cy

bruh

[unreal stirrup]

I'm having a dementia moment

[flat mist]

this is one with butterfly, which does increase the uptime of dodge buffs generally

[mighty belfry]

That's so weird.

[mighty belfry]

Butterfly also procs on perfect blocks as well tbf

[flat mist]

i think this mightve been a H28 we were pushing hard through

[mighty belfry]

So the uptime would be marginally better actually.

Well, assuming you bother to actually block

[flat mist]

i do

[mighty belfry]

Which I do.

[unreal stirrup]

nefarious cspawn

[mighty belfry]

But yes.

Dodge talents and blessings do not have the uptime one would think they do.

[flat mist]

i meant to say slippery here

also are u confusing tis but a scratch with quick and deadly

[mighty belfry]

Because the contigency of a "successful" dodge is a lot more finicky than one would first realize.

[flat mist]

theres no QaD in this build

[mighty belfry]

Nah I was just more talking from a general sense.

I know there's no QaD there.

[flat mist]

fair

[mighty belfry]

You may hear the cue, but you also have to time it in a particular way to actually successfully dodge it.

And that's what causes the iffy uptime.

So by that notion and the fact that a talent like Riposte, having an uptime that inconsistent despite the amount of time being literally double of Quick and Deadly, Quick and Deadly just isn't that good.

[keen sapphire]

i mean the sound of a dodged attack

it does have a sound

[mighty belfry]

I know. But I can guarantee you that regardless of what you're hearing, you are not getting 100% uptime.

It's quite literally impossible with how "successful dodging" works.

[neat delta]

They need to delete "successful dodge" and just make it dodge

So annoying.

[flat mist]

so they just procced whenever u hit dodge ??

[neat delta]

yea

or

just make the window a lot wider

[flat mist]

that would just be silly

might aswell make it permanently up

[neat delta]

Ye

do that

take IJ

instant 20 stacks

[silk flint]

Man going for a twisted hive doctor build is fairly fun.

[muted pivot]

Note that On-Dodge talents tend to proc when you actually need the power

Total uptime is only part of the picture, you really want to look at uptime during high danger moments

harder to measure

[mighty belfry]

See I'd say you're not wrong. But 15% damage isn't really that much to warrant 3s imho

Not compared to other talents this tree has.

[muted pivot]

Mm, true. Just looked at it now - especially since scum already gets a lot of +damage juice anyway so it's actually less than 15%

like a butterfly is generally way better for dodge talents

[flat mist]

they'll always be proccing if you're clutching or shit is really really messy

[muted pivot]

Yeah that's my point

[flat mist]

but you can easily be in the high flow of a h40 spawn curve and have it not proc

if you watch back footage of people playing scum you can really see how often droughts occur

and they often occur when you'd want to have your buffs up to stop shit hitting the fan

also some team comps are pure aids for on-dodge buffs

also look at these two screenshots. 40% uptime on butterfly and nearly 60% on riposte. and yet my actual crit rate in melee was 63%. my base is 47.5% with scum base, anarchist, small node, 3ChD & shivs, so im literally only getting an effective ~16% crit from both riposte and butterfly combined

@mighty belfry

[zenith pagoda]

If the uptime of dodge talents isn't great it's because the game ran smoothly

If I'm with noob teammates I get like 90%

https://youtu.be/hF2VzQtUHnA?si=tZZZ7Nu3cad9e6l3

Like look at the uptime here

Scum thrives in chaos

[main trellis]

Exacly that; looking at uptime alone is a foolish idea…

[muted pivot]

I mean 16% is pretty good imo lol

[main trellis]

I don’t need an uptime mod to see what talents/blessings are impactful enough to be used
I play & pay attention

[flat mist]

whatever dad doodle

[icy lark]

what talents can I use to make my hivescum more tankier and not a built like a sponge

[flat ice]

Nimble, Jittery, Tis but a scratch and dodge a lot 🙂

Blessed Stimms is nice without a Zealot too 🙂

You will never not be built like a wet noodle though

[astral canyon]

Run plenty of toughness replenishment, either adrenaline or chem dep's toughness subnodes, street tough (why the fuck does this talent exist)

Etc etc

But really you shouldnt be relying on facetanking anything on this game

[astral canyon]

Lol

Lmao

[vestal pelican]

Is there any reason to play the prologue on hive scum apart from the intro?

Like does it have any unique features that differ from the base classes

[astral canyon]

Im pretty sure neither scum nor arbites play the prologue

[amber sundial]

yea they both skip it

[astral canyon]

They just have a cutscene at the start

Only the base game classes have the prologue with escaping the tancred bastion

[amber sundial]

doesnt make sense for them to even be in the prologue, with arbites being space cops, and hivescum being recruited off the hiveworld

[flat ice]

I think you can still play the campaign with them if you wanted to suffer for a while

[astral canyon]

Campaign isnt the prologue

[flat ice]

That is indeed why I typed campaign and not prologue, I've replayed it for the memes a time or two

Did on my Hive Scum to hear any unique character interactions they had

[flat mist]

Scum literally has access to 70% T/DR after multiplicative scaling

Thats fucking insane

Plus two strong af on demand staggers, a stagger on getting hit, increased dodge linger time, reduced time between dodges, +50% toughness replenishment, 50% toughness restore when your toughness hits zero, 75% toughness restore when you stimm, 100% toughness restore when you use rampage, and reduced time to restore max dodges

[flat ice]

I don't classify evasiveness with being tanky but yea fair enough on the toughness points. I play a very evasive centered Hive Scum.

[flat mist]

The defense tree of the scum stimm is criminally underrated. Your borderline invincible while its up

[unreal stirrup]

glass cannon but its bulletproof

[flat mist]

Running blackouts, stagger bistol, street tough and forges makes scum hilariously impossible to pin down

Not that you need all that

[bronze glade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1461399148581490863/371AC71.MP4?ex=6a0551c4&is=6a040044&hm=1523c39601b1b6649826979dfca2ce68b6459ace3809ea3942b47ff49fcbe26a&

[flat mist]

Run this and you'll never die

Pop stimm after rampage

[unreal stirrup]

whopping 12.5% cdr

[flat mist]

Takes 1.4s off rampage cooldown for minimal investment

6s extra cd on stimm is nothing, especially after sample collector

[unreal stirrup]

I mean you can get more value over 1.4s off rampage

I'll go with strength

you can spent further 5s for 1 more node to get strength 3 or attack speed 3

[flat mist]

Uh, thats not the tradeoff in question...

[flat ice]

I eat my words

[unreal stirrup]

i mean if you're going 2 strength 2 attack speed it the same cd

[flat ice]

Thats hilarious

[unreal stirrup]

57s

i don't think 1.4s cd is worth it

it's extremely minor

[flat mist]

Well i recommend going full strength/finesse anyway

[unreal stirrup]

8% strength is not very big but you're getting something

I think 75s stim is perfectly reasonable with blinder

im going off topic again

[astral canyon]

75s stim is perfectly reasonable

[flat mist]

Definitely reasonable

[bronze glade]

for whatever reason, hive scum gets a lot of damage reduction in its tree, esp if you go rampage

[flat mist]

But going full attack speed is meh

[unreal stirrup]

me think

[flat mist]

Yeah i like it

[astral canyon]

Me dont think

[flat mist]

I default to this in h40

18.9s rampage cooldown is nice

[flat ice]

🫡 Thank you for opening my eyes

[warm axle]

whatcha watchin

[flat mist]

8 out of 10 cats compilation

[thin seal]

if a crit one shots an enemy, does coated weaponry still proc for sample collector purposes? I assume no

but idk if there is any interaction shenanigans with hyper-critical

also unclear what the order of operations is for the toxin mode of the bone saw. does it apply toxin first and then do damage or is it damage first and then toxin stack

[main prairie]

is crowbar not very good? been trying to make some new builds with all of the unique weapons and im not seeing very many out there

[iron saddle]

Crowbar feels meh imo and it's only meh cause of scum having good melee perks it feels.

[flat mist]

No

[flat mist]

Hyper-crit kills give 1%

[flat mist]

This would take 30s to test in the psykhanium

[bronze glade]

Its pretty meh

Poorly designed too

[muted pivot]

psykhanium is wrong sometimes tbf lol

[mighty belfry]

Tbf I completely agree. But when the actual benefits of the talent itself aren't all that and there's talents that can give you something similar while also being not nearly as conditional, there's a bit of a discrepancy in the value of that talent.

Like I absolutely love Float Like a Butterfly and that's mostly procced on successful dodges because 20% crit is a very significant buff to have for that time and no other talent provides that kind of buff on the tree.

And I guess perfect blocks too but it's mostly dodging.

[limber cradle]

You mean to tell me I can have even more Riposte?

Sign me up buddy

[twilit valve]

What is hypex? Just curious i dont get this completely

[mighty belfry]

Ability cooldown stimm

[twilit valve]

Ah tyty

[flat mist]

One of the last nodes on bottom right tree of scum stimm. Gives 75% cooldown regen for 1s on melee kill

Is pretty shit

[twilit valve]

Shit bad or good? Id debate running it if I can get my rampage down to 16 ish seconds

[flat mist]

Bad

[twilit valve]

Ah kk

[mighty belfry]

Bad

[flat mist]

Better off just running kalma v

[twilit valve]

What does that 1 give?

I know them by the effects less the actual names

[flat mist]

25% ability regen

[twilit valve]

Ok so not all the way just 5 deep

[flat mist]

5 deep is all the way

[mighty belfry]

Literally

[flat mist]

Kalma I-IV give 6.25% each. Kalma V gives 25%. 50% total.

[mighty belfry]

If hypex was buffed to 2s

It would make a huge difference

[twilit valve]

Icic, all good to know. So u would pop it just as rampage ends or just before?

This is all fantastic info

[flat mist]

Well if you're trying too hard you could pop it ~1s before rampage ends since stimm takes about that long to activate

But yeah, just pop it at the end

[mighty belfry]

Or you can just pop it whenever because you're a drug addict

[twilit valve]

So valid

But good to know the timing since I usually just run full into rending but id trade that in a heartbeat for a shorter rampage cooldown

[mighty belfry]

Legit do not care about timing it because I'm often in rampage and killing long enough to let sample collector do its thing lol

But ideally yeah you wanna use your stimm to compensate for your downtimes.

[twilit valve]

Yeah id like no downtime or close to none since my build is crackhead junkie attackspeed shivs

Homeless simulator

[flat mist]

Well pre-empting rampage finishing is more about getting rampage back quicker

But its not something id suggest

Just technically possible

[flat mist]

Imo running Kalma II or III with chem dep is a good compromise if you're adamant about stimming when rampage drops

Then you can still get the full strength tree + some attack speed

[twilit valve]

I might use hypex or whichever is max cdr since I dont run chem dep I run frenzy

[flat mist]

Id just use kalma V but try hypex if you like

[flat mist]

Can see in this highlight what you sacrifice if you cant get any hypex procs

[mighty belfry]

There's also the consideration that you have to get melee kills

On your downtime

[flat mist]

Exactly

[twilit valve]

Mhmm, so if I get at least 5 secs of melee kills in stimm its equal or better then kam

[mighty belfry]

And 75% for 1s is just

[twilit valve]

IF I get them

[flat mist]

Youve just lost a bunch of stats and if rampage dropped you've probably run out of targets or been forced to play defensively

But you only need 5s of hypex to equal kalma V

[mighty belfry]

Like 75% sounds like a lot but the the caveats around that are really harsh.

[twilit valve]

Id rather run hypex since if I dont have anything to kill it will recharge regardless but if there are things present and I need it faster hype can give it quicker

Also good to know

I mean this is my first time seeing this chart or considering cdr on the stimm so ill have lots to test when home from school

[flat mist]

I sometimes update it when im high so there may be a few discrepancies

[twilit valve]

Its all good its a VERY good general idea

[flat mist]

Like i added a delay for stim activating at some point whjch tbh is needlessly complicated

[naive briar]

Is it worth picking ability cooldown on my stimm if most of the time I’m using it at the same time as rampage? Most of the time the stimm wears off before rampage ends

So idk if the faster ability cooldown even does much

[amber sundial]

you only regen your cd on rampage when it ends so no it wouldnt be worth

[naive briar]

Gotcha, ty

[frigid adder]

anyone got a decent melee build on hand? wanna give the criminal another go.

[tranquil fjord]

pretty standard

[frigid adder]

ah some londoners

[tranquil fjord]

i have one for heavy sword

pretty similar

headtaker, chained deathblow for blessings

defense dump

[frigid adder]

question is your build a heavy attack build considering your using londoners?

[tranquil fjord]

i mean yeah

shivs are pretty much

i mean theyre usually on heavies for single targets

unless you build enough hyperviolence for lights on rampage

[keen sapphire]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1c45920-ee2f-4a9f-9b83-0fe3f2405695/crackhead-gaming

[vale rock]

playing rampage on my side, it's usually m1 spam and heavy attack to clear out big targets

elites coming? heavy attack, hordes? just spam that click

(i might be the culprit behind the cleave nerf)

[tranquil fjord]

this is when you build enough overkill for your lights to consistently sustain that overkill on more enemies

which seems like a lot of thinking but once youre in rampage youre just killing and killing

while hyperviolence runs in the background

[tranquil fjord]

funnily enough rampage rending affects weapon specials and push attacks too

[vale rock]

funny thing i like to do with my rampage build

[mighty belfry]

I really do think daemonhost needs a buff at this point

[keen sapphire]

na

1. hivescum is just crazy strong so theres that

also that for every other class only certain builds are good

[mighty belfry]

Zealot can do this too. Tinkered krak vet can melt them. Ogryn can stun lock. Psyker can basically kite them infinitely with Kinetic Deflection

Oddly enough

Arbitrator is the only class that doesn't really hold up that well against daemonhosts

Idk. They're not really as imposing as they used to be anymore. And if they're not gonna level the players down to a reasonable level where this can't happen, then at least a decent buff to HP wouldn't hurt

It's not like they were nerfed to hell by making them only target one person before bailing

[mighty belfry]

I truly have not experienced an auric game recently where the daemonhost doesn't get squared up with immediately on sight

As opposed to before where arguably, it was just better to pass around them. It's like that in Havoc tho since they are actually buffed there

It's just another sign of the disparity Auric's difficulty is going through

[keen sapphire]

well inhavoc they can still really kick ass

auric is kinda just like that

if u got a good team no monstrosity is living

[sand tendon]

a small point is that for ritual demonhosts if you bullrush them their "progress bar" becomes their actual health bar(bug) and it becomes faster to just bullrush and instantly kill a 2hp dh

[mighty belfry]

It wasn't nearly as easy to deal with them as it is now.

It's just another sign of all the power creep

[flat mist]

This is so bad it hurts

Why would you pick quick and deadly or a tertium welcome over channelled devastation

[keen sapphire]

everyone gets mad about something i guess

[flat mist]

And uncontrolled aggression is just bad, theres no two ways about it

[flat mist]

More like pity

[keen sapphire]

i consistently do over 1mil damage with the build

[flat mist]

Well yeah its still melee scum

A few mistakes in the build isnt gonna kill it

[keen sapphire]

more one shots

also cause mods are broken idk what my crit chance is

[flat mist]

Channelled devastation is always 10% melee damage on your build, and as soon as you ptoc riposte/butterfly its maxed out

Oh nvm shiv bonus

So you always have a minimum of 32.5% crit

So channelled devastation will always be at 15% melee damage

Just a straight upgrade over tertium welcome

[keen sapphire]

well ill swap something

probably battering

[flat mist]

Take out uncontrolled aggression

The 4s duration for adrenaline

[keen sapphire]

just means its active more

[flat mist]

Nah doesnt make much difference at all

You'd be better off with the stacks on kills node

Uncontrolled aggression is like... well if you werent hitting any enemies for 10s you'd lose 5 stacks of adrenaline. With uncontrolled you'd only lose 2. Thats literally one normal hit and one crit to make up the difference

So less than a second of m1 spam

[low harbor]

u don't need uncontrolled aggression or stoked rage

adrenaline smiter is almost always take

[flat mist]

Yeah stoked rage does increase the uptime a decent bit but its very dropable

[low harbor]

get channelled devastation as well, u could keep both a terium welcome and quick & deadly if u want

u hav enough points

[flat mist]

If also swap hypex for kalma V @keen sapphire

Just more reliable

[keen sapphire]

i dunno it works well if theres enmmies

[vale rock]

tbf, i feel like having either of the adrenaline uptime node is neat, more preference on stoked since well you keep the buff longer (especially useful for the toughness regen if you end up in front of shooters right after) also wouldn't quick and deadly just be a ranged dmg buff? i dunno if close range actually boost melee

that reminds me on the build, hyper critical is sad with hyper violence, if it procs,you don't get stacks of hyper violence, and if you kill mobs due to hyper violence, well hyper critical doesn't really get much out of it

[vale rock]

you could just go in psy : equip talent, check buffs

iirc it's shown there

[keen sapphire]

close range just means when youre close to enemies i assume

it would be crazy if that was only guns

i think it would be close ranged damage otherwise

close range vs close ranged

[vale rock]

Fair enough, i'm so used to close range meaning just close to you but for guns

iirc hive scum is the only time where it effects both

[keen sapphire]

it is mostly on gun blessings but i think thats because itd be super strong on melee

since ur always close range in melee

imagine deathspitter and fire frenzy on melee

[vale rock]

yeah, that's why the confusion, too used for the mention of it being exclusive to ranged

[high gull]

[naive briar]

But doesn’t that make it so melee hits don’t give stacks?

[low harbor]

yea but u get a lot of stacks from kills

15 stacks per melee kill on elite

[naive briar]

Wouldn’t u wanna have stack generation for bosses tho

[low harbor]

it's not that big of a deal

hive scum nukes bosses anyway

[bronze glade]

There’s always trash around anyway

[flat mist]

Nah the conflict is exaggerated. Things dying from hypercrit is more beneficial than them surviving on low health and requiring another hit

Instead of your primary/cleave targets being taken up by that enemy that couldve died if you had hypercrit, it can now be filled with a fresh target that will either be put on low health and then feed HV or will also just die to HC. Its a win-mostly win most of the time.

The real sad thing about HC is not getting blackout recharge from it

[mighty belfry]

Not really

[flat mist]

The benefit is that when you enter combat without adrenaline frenzy active you'll get it within a few kills

[mighty belfry]

I haven't seen this discourse in quite a while here actually lol

[flat mist]

As opposed to like 15-20 hits

[mighty belfry]

But HC + HV is a perfectly viable choice to make if you know what you're getting.

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-gta-sa-cj-gta-again-gif-20425950

HC+HV discussion needs to be a fucking pin

[flat mist]

And 15-20 hits can take ages if you're against targets you should be heavying

[bronze glade]

like plasma optimal roll

[flat mist]

Do you have an example of when you think hc is actually counterproductive?

[mighty belfry]

I mean, I guess there's the blackout regen issue. But realistically, that's about it ime

Thing is that if HC is "eating" a HV proc, you already aren't doing enough damage to benefit from HV anyway since the entire point of HC is to force a kill when your damage isn't enough to actually kill something on a crit.

And that only matters with bulkier targets anyway when you don't have any overkill to begin with.

If you're swinging through a horde, you're still going to gather overkill regardless.

And arguably it makes your horde clear better since the overkill being transferred is flatly added to your damage so it can ignore cleave distribution.

[unreal stirrup]

I don't pick hc on caxe anymore tbh

[main trellis]

Funny enough; haymaker gives you recharge for blinders but HC does not

[main trellis]

Not to mention HV dmg pass can be done with ANY attack even your ranged so you could overkill someone with for example a revolver and then swap to melee & swing at the horde

[vale rock]

Even on bulkier targets, if you diddnt kill it first hit, you'd have to do two hits on both scenario anyway, just having both of em at the same time is overkill
Hyper critical finishes a mob with 30 hp left = no mob to proc a hyperviolence on
Besides i cant really think of a situation where hypercrit heavy attacks on shiv wouldnt one shot something that isnt an ogryn

Only annoying part is hyper violence is the only good choice is you go left of mid keystone path, since the other one is pushing enemies off when you get hit in melee

[astral canyon]

Street tough is insanely strong lmao

[main trellis]

Like thats a bad choice and not picked for like… every HS build

[vale rock]

not saying it's bad, but i'd rather hit the horde in the face instead of them being on the ground

[main trellis]

Both end up enemies being on the ground silly

[vale rock]

easier to cleave heads aligned than heads on the floor

[main trellis]

ST is a defensive talent; its not like Hammerblow blessing for example
Not taking it/stating that the ‚only’ good choice is HV in that section is pepega

[vale rock]

You're right, i should have said i don't like the talent

[astral canyon]

Thats fair

[tranquil fjord]

street tough doesnt even require you to get hit

[astral canyon]

I also despise street tough but i recognize its busted

[tranquil fjord]

you can block and it will proc

[vale rock]

i feel like it's busted for when that rager train comes in and you get cocky

[main trellis]

Was busted when it shoved dog off
Now its more like very strong imo

[astral canyon]

With 8s cooldown its still busted

[main trellis]

Meanwhile Masters Retribution talent on zealot

Masters?
More like
Slaves

[astral canyon]

Or the fnp subnode on ogryn that has a 30s cooldown

[main trellis]

Tragic but ok for oggy cause dogshit dodges & massive hit box so atleast dog will not kill you

[tranquil fjord]

cant believe hivescum got the zealot thing but better #10

[main trellis]

Don’t forget chem cans & blinders

And Rampage

[tranquil fjord]

infernos werent even that good with uncanny but chems do it all anyways

[astral canyon]

You mean immolation grenades?

[main trellis]

Cans show what infernos would have been if devs cared to look into many things rather than 1 or 2 in terms of game updates

[tranquil fjord]

devs have adhd like me

[main trellis]

The only thing they immolate are grenade pickups on the map from others

[tranquil fjord]

we can only do 1 or 2 things at a time

[main trellis]

I feel this

[astral canyon]

Immolation nades dont even apply burn

[main trellis]

Altho on my end (atleast in games) can do multiple

[main trellis]

Thats the point

[blissful gull]

anything wrong with my axe setup for havoc 40?

[tranquil fjord]

its good

you could do flak or unyielding instead of unarmored because i think it hits breakpoints

[astral canyon]

nah

[tranquil fjord]

is unload 20% or 22% for an empty mag

[blissful gull]

what sort of stimm do you nortmally run on rashad scum?

[flat mist]

Dude shivs can crit for nearly 6k against carapace w/out having hv up

[vale rock]

even more reason to not use hyperviolence then

[flat mist]

Lmao

[vale rock]

also what kinda build does that many on carapace

[flat mist]

Crit a noobling for multiple k and now your light attacks have like 500-1000 hv damage

[flat mist]

You have to have all your dodge buffs, finesse stim and rampage up

[vale rock]

at that point just use hypercritical

[flat mist]

I do. And when i oneshot things i get hv.

Do you use mods?

[vale rock]

i do, but it's just simple math that if you have no HV you manage to do 6k you don't actually need hyperviolence to one shot anything

[flat mist]

I just said that you need a ton of buffs to get that high

And light attacks exist

And non weakspot or crit hits

Cleave targets

Etc

[flat mist]

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/krQwQK

I cap hyper violence multiple times in this clip

(It has a ceiling that causes the buff to drop off)

6.5k to a crusher with a light attack kekw

[woeful hill]

charge yo phone

[flat mist]

I do. To like 20% then i take it off again

[hallow creek]

hows the new patch been? has it been less of a slog in havoc? can i finally make a climb?

[woeful hill]

@unique dagger

[tranquil fjord]

what is with your fov

wait is this the weaponfov mod bug

[unique dagger]

I think that's 120 fov

[woeful hill]

Just my usual fov that I use in my H40 solo, I think its 130?

[unique dagger]

ah almost got it my bad

[mighty belfry]

The reason why people run both is because HC is a good insurance plan on the downtime you're inevitably going to encounter with Rampage as well as overall making your horde clear more consistent.

HV ignores cleave distribution so that damage can actually extend to other targets in that swing. But that bit of overkill may not be enough to kill things at the end of the swing even with a crit. However, when you also run HC, that suddenly changes because it basically creates a breakpoint which allows those enemies to die to the crit when they wouldn't have even with the overkill that was stacked.

I'm not saying you have to run both. But there is blatant benefit in having both.

[ancient basin]

hc - consistency, hv - ramp

both together means you start higher up the ramp and have better cleave via the crit executes

[twilit valve]

Yallve convinced me on running both since I already run one

[flat mist]

Bro just vibing at -1000 dodges

[vestal pelican]

When should I use the electric mode on the needle pistol and bone saw?

[iron saddle]

The specials? Needle one has diff effects based off marks mk2 does a lil aoe dot application on target death, mk6 does a aoe stagger on target death. The bone saw applies brittle chem that can be handy on carapace/bosses.

[bronze glade]

Saw special is only for crushers

[heavy compass]

Do any of you cool and hip people think INFANTRY autogun very good on hive scum? Which blessings if so. I saw on reddit someone said its “goated” with desperado?

[mighty belfry]

It's a debate as to if DAPs or Vraks Inf Auto are the best guns for it

[heavy compass]

I see. If its so hotly contested it must be a very hard decision

[mighty belfry]

I personally think Vraks just got the better damage output but DAPs definitely has the better mobility

[heavy compass]

Do you have a prefered blessings for the vram

[limber cradle]

DAPs feel better to play cause of the mobility imo

Vraks is the closest DT has to a no personality gun

[bronze glade]

Vraks has a lot of personality

Recon is a no personality gun

[mighty belfry]

Honestly prefer shredder over them if I'll be real

I just don't like how they feel to shoot.

[limber cradle]

Never liked shredders tbh

They feel almost the same but DAPs feel a little better to me

[austere coyote]

I hate the shredders, daps feel good

[bronze glade]

Shredders are great

They actually have some personality

DAPs are just braindead

[limber cradle]

Whole class is braindead tbf

[bronze glade]

Class issue

[keen sapphire]

ive tried shredder but it just feels way too weak especially with its magsize

DAP puts out like double the bullets and has more pen it feels

[unreal stirrup]

💀

[keen sapphire]

idk if it does or not but dap can atleast deal with like scab ragers and maulers

shredder feels like ur shooting them with plastic bbs

[bronze glade]

Shredder doesn’t have great flak ADMs

But does much better against bosses

And also scales much better with finesse

[keen sapphire]

shredder is good against bosses

har

wahr

[naive briar]

Dual stubs for life

[keen sapphire]

i understand why people hate DAP tho

i was running it with desperado cause i was levelling a new scum and didnt want to spend stuff on shitty weapons so i was just running whatever drops i got

and man is it literally just infinite bullethose

so oppressive

[bronze glade]

Yep

It’s like a mini Vraks

Vet but you get the idea

[keen sapphire]

is that auric chaos

[naive briar]

Dual smgs got aura tho

[bronze glade]

Yeah

[worn portal]

what the

[bronze glade]

finesse multipliers go brrrrrrt

hiv can't reach that level of finessemaxxing

but hiv gets unlimited ammo

soooo

[calm aurora]

shredder on psyker is great too

[keen sapphire]

vraks psyker is crazy

[muted pivot]

Kinda kills the Vraks on every other class for me tbh

What even is a Vraks without Scrier's and 25 stacks of blueboi persecution

And don't @ me about marksman's focus, we all know weakspots on Vraks are a utopian ideal rather than a reality lol

[main trellis]

@muted pivot but MMF man… just aim better in a chaotic environment being pestered by melee units and ADS with a poorly designed iron sights to where the shots actually go
Just hit weakspots 4head its ez

[muted pivot]

I actually liked Vraks vet when you could gain stacks by standing still

Just finding little moments to build a stack or two, and getting to start an airlock at max, was really good

And it headshot enough to maintain itself

But current MF doesn't suit it imo

[main trellis]

Its more of a weapon problem than a keystone; they need to fix iron sights to where the shots actually land dogshit

[muted pivot]

True that, too. I seem to be more accurate when hipfiring

Which isn't great when you're trying to exploit deadshot

[flat mist]

The level of cope that went on in psyker chat a year or two ago about how good true aim is on gunker was unreal

[main trellis]

Ppl were saying that its not great cause of the crit mechanic interfering with crit chance

[flat mist]

Bros were getting like 3% effective crit rate from it and still thought it was good

[main trellis]

I still take it cause its better than the alternative

[flat mist]

Coppppppppe

[main trellis]

Facts

[flat mist]

Was always garbage on crit string weapons

Only assail justified it

[muted pivot]

I mean I always take Assail on gundalf anyway

[flat mist]

Some of these convos were back when true aim procced per hit too

Was goated with assail

I miss assail weaving with voidstrike to increase surge procs by an ungodly amount

Two assails into void borderline guaranteed a surge proc into any non-ogryn mix

[twilit valve]

Is there any fun facts I dont know for damage scaling relating to my build? I am mainly asking about the one perk that get bonus damage per crit chance, and how % strength, %damage, % finesse, and % rending scale together. Since im wondering if im suffering from diminishing returns with my perks or if they are better wit stacking

[bronze glade]

the pinned guide in vet chat does a good job of explaining all this

[twilit valve]

Ok ty

[muted pivot]

I think generally they'll scale together multiplicatively with different things

so all of your "damage"s stack up additively, then get multiplied by all of your "strengths", then get multiplied by the finesse modifier, then multiplied by enemy armour scaling (which is usually a factor smaller than 1; Rending and Brittleness will improve this in your favour)

Note that finesse bonuses are relative to your base finesse modifier

that is to say, a weapon that gains a lot of damage from crits and weakspots will gain a lot more from finesse boosts, but one which gains hardly anything at base will continue to gain very little

this is also why things like the weakspot and critical damage perks are terrible, because they give 10% of an increase to those scalings, which in practice is usually less than 5% of an actual boost

(on the other hand, talents that increase these things often give significantly more to make them worth it. Duelist in Zealot or Disrupt Destiny in Psyker are prime examples.)

(Also talents that increase Weakspot strength actually increase the entire damage by that amount instead of just the modifier, just to make life more confusing)

just typical fartshart things :)

[silk flint]

Truly a crackhead

[raw sierra]

god everything else feels so slow after playing scum

[warm axle]

i prioritize mobility more after scumming

[limber cradle]

Mobility best stat every game

[astral canyon]

1st: the leak is likely false based on the fact the post mentions its from the ukrainian localization when darktide doesnt even have an official one
2nd: mf using centered taskbar instead of aligned to the left

[zenith pagoda]

Not my desktop lol just saw the "leak"

[compact oyster]

Also the steam description has 4 paragraphs

Not 5

[astral canyon]

what steam description

[calm aurora]

And yet Mr E could not resist

He had to make a video

[warm axle]

Mr shamEless

[compact oyster]

For other class dlcs

[astral canyon]

ig

[flat mist]

Why would you waste microseconds of mouse travel time from centre of screen by aligning left. Unbased and inefficiency pilled brosef

[astral canyon]

same reason you dye your beds red on minecraft

[rare grotto]

https://giphy.com/gifs/myemotionalsupportanimal-cat-orange-ginger-pmYksYFyBu7XP8HTDo

mf still uses mouse clicks instead of keyboard shortcuts

[twilit valve]

Hey does difficulty in this game scale with player count or is it set

[woeful hill]

It's set

Does not scale per player

[compact oyster]

(Except for last man standing)

[twilit valve]

Oh? Is it less if you are the last one?

That's almost exactly what im wondering about

[mild tundra]

its more if youre the last one or two alive. it counts as separated from the team, so it spawns more disablers and specials

[compact oyster]

If your last man standing and you get the music change the spawning pool changes

[twilit valve]

Sixk

I already want to just play alone so id rather deal with more specials and less elites

[woeful hill]

not exactly how this works

https://old.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1mf1osk/the_specials_of_darktide_and_their_inner_workings/

Here is a better breakdown

but the "last man standing" code is pretty old and certain gaemmodes override it and it probably hasent honestly worked correctly for awhile

but I am not a code diver and I havent tested non havoc spawns in a long time

[mild tundra]

👀

this is a very detailed breakdown ill read through it

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-pet-silly-pat-dog-gif-3985961921004463793

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-pet-silly-pat-dog-gif-3985961921004463793

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-pet-silly-pat-dog-gif-3985961921004463793

[merry vortex]

Okay so question, I know the dump stats for the needle pistol is damage and stopping power, but what does stopping power do and why did fatshark put stopping power on the needle pistol of all things?

[dire badge]

Stagger enemies

[dense hollow]

you can see it what it does when you inspect the needle pistol in game but its just the stagger and like dmg against certain enemies

[dire badge]

And because it's fatshark

[merry vortex]

Sorry I didn’t know it told me, I’m just trying to understand the workings of the game

[dire badge]

No man all good no wrong questions

[merry vortex]

Can I drink the spicy soup from the soup can?

[dense hollow]

you can also go on build editor on gameslantern if you want to look at it without getting in game

it'll only tell you the stats that are shown ingame normally but it's still useful

[muted pivot]

You can. Once.

[reef hearth]

what is britleness? armor reduction? so what to take instead of uncanny now?

i am thinking preco or backstab, have riposte as other one

[flat mist]

Never backstab

Precog is best

[muted pivot]

frankly I think that uncanny was never the way for shivs anyway

precog + riposte has crazy synergy with what the shivs do best

it has some of the highest finesse ratios in the game plus plenty of ways to boost your crit rate from your talent tree etc (and riposte itself), so it's an excellent candidate for precognition. Especially when you look at how big of a difference critting makes for the shivs' ADMs

[flat mist]

As a reference point for that difference in ADM, 25% rending adds exactly 40% damage to non-crit heavies anf 25% damage to crit heavies

[reef hearth]

i jsut hope i can keep its uptime high, bcs 2 secs is not that much like riposte 6 or talent crit at least 3

but i am trying to dodge anyway so probably best choice .)

[muted pivot]

uptime during key moments is more crucial than flat uptime imo

if you need it you probably have it

[bronze glade]

nah old uncanny was goated on shivs

new uncanny aint it tho

[heady trellis]

Note to self: splash damage does not work with the bonesaw if chem DoTs kill the enemy, yet another anti chem synergy talent

https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-wegeekinghard-blud-tiktok-animatronic-tweaking-gif-18331326635054461479

[astral canyon]

More like anti bonesaw

[heady trellis]

I love going full chem with the bonesaw but things like this annoy me

You can still get decent value out of it if you heavy overhead but it makes it inconsistent to say the least

[bronze glade]

bonesaw's got decent horde clear either way at least

[heady trellis]

It does, it is however comically stupid that a chem focussed talent in the chem side of the talent tree does not work with the weapon that uses chem the most.

Shivs just stay winning.

[livid raven]

so which is best between the two weapons i hate the most, tacaxe and rashad

[astral canyon]

Rashad

Like rashad is undisputed best melee on scum

[livid raven]

no crit and weakspot talents i suppose

[marble seal]

I must dispute

[livid raven]

wow this feels like shit to use

[bronze glade]

just stamstack until it feels good to use

simple as

[livid raven]

i mean it's effective

but these hit sounds don't make it for me

[bronze glade]

the decapitations tho

😋

use heretic heads as bowling balls

[livid raven]

the feedback on the hits feels so shit it's hard to understand if i'm the one actually killing people (i am) or someone near me is helping out

this good?

i got a point i have no idea where to put, maybe for the weakspot hit as filler

or have people found a reason to run adrenaline

[astral canyon]

Run adrenaline instead of chem dep

[livid raven]

yeah i suppose that would fix it

[astral canyon]

Why are you even using chem dep for rashad

[livid raven]

i clicked buttons

chem dep is such the basis of melee builds i forgot adrenaline existed

[astral canyon]

???

[livid raven]

which of its ass subnodes

[astral canyon]

Adrenaline is literally free melee damage and attack speed

[livid raven]

didn't stop everyone from shitting on it

[astral canyon]

Smiter and toughness regen

[astral canyon]

Who???

[livid raven]

people here, but i only played gunscum

[bronze glade]

i guess people really hate having a shit ton of attack speed and melee damage lol

[astral canyon]

Who the fuck was shitting on adrenaline😭

[bronze glade]

adren sucks bro

needs buffs

trust

[amber sundial]

yea why isnt adren permanently active without me doing anything

ass keystone

[bronze glade]

fuck man, you mean i gotta actually kill heretics to get the benefits?

[amber sundial]

ew i have to interact with the enemies? but theyre gross!!!

[livid raven]

yeah ok it's kinda cracked

[mighty belfry]

It's not that adrenaline is bad. It's that scum has so many options that scale off finesse so well that Chem dep just ends up being the usual pick because of the crit subnode

[livid raven]

yeah of course i meant that

[mighty belfry]

But Rashad is a case where it does just have a lot of raw damage so adrenaline kicks ahead for it

[livid raven]

and bad crits

[bronze glade]

eh adren is my default pick tbh

[livid raven]

or finesse

[mighty belfry]

Funny enough

Rashad's finesse isn't bad either

[astral canyon]

Also really really likes attack speed

[bronze glade]

then again i'm attack speed-pilled

[mighty belfry]

It's just that it still does just purely have a lot of raw damage too.

And yeah. Attack speed

Very noticeable for it

[muted pivot]

Attack speed is generally the best stat anyway if you're using a breakpointy weapon like Rashad

And, like, all the time anyway even besides that

Unless you hit the limit of swinging too fast for the trash to reach you to be hit by the next swing

[marble seal]

It depends on the weapon moveset too I think

the more heavies you do, the worst attack speed is, since it doesnt modify the wind up time

[bronze glade]

doesn't it?

i thought it was a global modifier to the animation speed

[muted pivot]

Huh, is that why people say to just spam lights on tac axe instead of doing the LHL loop?

[low harbor]

it is

[low harbor]

no, those people just don't know better or are lazy

[muted pivot]

I admit I sometimes do light spam but sometimes you just need the attack speed up if you're trying to snag a specialist or something

[flat lotus]

just came back to the game after a while

my PEEEEEERKS

can someone tell me if this is the way to go for desperado autos now? i just came back to the game after another big break

[tranquil fjord]

on desperado hypercrit is kinda needed

[flat lotus]

i used to use that

i feel like its very useful

but they changed the perks around so now im not even sure what i should drop

[tranquil fjord]

channeled devastation is too good to miss

its just free melee damage

[flat lotus]

im not even sure i want boom bringer anymore because i kind of used it explicitly as my Fuck You Rotten Armor button

but thats less of an issue now

[tranquil fjord]

id recommend blinders because of

bulwark spam

you have decent crusher damage with a shiv when you throw a knife and then you do heavies on their head

immunity on slide is a bit niche imo over some other picks but

there is some freedom

there are just less crushers to worry about now

[flat lotus]

i might just drop slippery and take channeled

[tranquil fjord]

you dont want hypercrit?

[flat lotus]

because it seems like it's literally just free melee damage

[tranquil fjord]

i mean it helps the horde clear a lot

you hit the breakpoints on some enemies with channeled and hypercrit together

[flat lotus]

actually hyper-crit is more important so i'll take that first and see if there's anything else worth dropping

[tranquil fjord]

sticky hands is really the only thing i see to take out

m

are you sure you wouldnt want cdr over gunner res?

vultures dodge and desperado make you immune to ranged

[flat lotus]

I was thinking of that yes

I wouldn't drop all of the gunner res.

You want at least one regardless of class

so

Honestly Street Tough looks really good

Did they change that perk??

[tranquil fjord]

a little

doesnt proc on dogs and mutants anymore iirc

[low harbor]

Street tough can’t activate on dogs anymore but it’s still a really strong stagger basically for free

[tranquil fjord]

its a neat thing, you can proc it on blocks too

[mighty belfry]

I hate Street Tough

[flat lotus]

This is what I'm working with now

I honestly liked Sticky Hands for dual autos in particular

[woeful hill]

you missed 1

[flat lotus]

I did?

[woeful hill]

you need to fill it out like a coloring book

[flat lotus]

I'm still looking at all the perk changes

[flat lotus]

but why

[woeful hill]

funny

[flat lotus]

why tertium welcome

ive never seen the appeal of it

well

no, theres some melee weapons that would be cracked with.

but i use shivs lol

[mighty belfry]

It's literally 15% melee damage just, for existing

Well, on first target but thats a mostly negligible caveat

Especially with anything with Brutal Momentum

[flat lotus]

i dont really see what else could be moved around for that

i dont remember ever using tertium welcome unless it was for rampage

[limber cradle]

Brother you do not need every talent in the first part of the tree

There's gotta be one of those mfs you ain't attached to

[flat lotus]

they're all good

its awesome sauce

[livid raven]

no wait

he is cooking

i fear it's a certified hood classic

[flat lotus]

i pretty much just copied my old build but changed it a little

rip jittery i will miss you