Thank u both ❤️
#hivescum-class
flat mist
main trellis
Numerous… sadly… like… it would be better if that would stop; for both of us tbh
Thats another one
You’re just playing now
jovial heron
Thats another one
I can’t say I don’t want you hurt?
main trellis
You don’t want a discource; you want mockery
low harbor
flat mist
Y'all both acting like children and thats coming from IROSK
main trellis
Y'all both acting like children and thats coming from IROSK
Of all thing i stopped atleast; hes still going
jovial heron
You don’t want a discource; you want mockery
lol you accused me of being emotional and illogical? How is that discourse
astral canyon
https://klipy.com/gifs/amor-263
Pohn Jork
low harbor
You could be discussing psyker being op instead of whatever this is
main trellis
Gunner resist isnt diminishing returns
OH NO
main trellis
Who's Pohn and why do we Jork him
Pohn jerky
flat mist
You could be discussing psyker being op instead of whatever this is
Could be discussing gunner resist
low harbor
Is that even worth discussing
There’re people that think it’s diminishing returns and then there’re people that know better
That’s kinda the end of it
unreal stirrup
is this still ongoing
main trellis
lol you accused me of being emotional and illogical? How is that discourse
Its not an accusation; its an observation
You can’t be talked with without mockery atleast now; hopefully later you’ll calm down
astral canyon
Cos u didnt replt
Could be discussing this minor spelling mistake
jovial heron
Could be discussing gunner resist
flat mist
is this still ongoing
SHHHH WE'RE DISTRACTING KRIEGER AND WILLY
low harbor
Nah i proved its both earlier
What, the argument of u losing toughness by taking gunner resist?
spare tartan
whatever it is, keep going, i'm almost done eating
main trellis
whatever it is, keep going, i'm almost done eating
Get a dessert
flat mist
Thats the one
flat mist
But that’s not what gunner DR covers
The game covers it
low harbor
Gunner DR doesn’t cover regular shooters so I don’t rly see this argument
jovial heron
Its not an accusation; its an observation
You can’t be talked with without mocke...
I am sorry if it came off like I was mocking you or trying to hurt your feelings I thought we were done and just joking. Good luck in your games today
unreal stirrup
now you can kiss the bride
flat mist
I am sorry if it came off like I was mocking you or trying to hurt your feelings...
If i say anything that comes across as hurting your feelings its bc that was my intention
jovial heron
now you can kiss the bride
You sick fuck want to watch?
jovial heron
If i say anything that comes across as hurting your feelings its bc that was my ...
Notice me not asking what I already know
flat mist
Gunner DR doesn’t cover regular shooters so I don’t rly see this argument
Idk man the argument is very clear
Gunner resist doesnt exist in isolation from other damage
jovial heron
God it would be nice if it affected regular gunners
flat mist
Its literally only not diminishing returns if you get 100 to 0'd by a gunner
If anything else hits you its diminishing returns
But my actual argument is that its reductive
vapid jungle
unreal stirrup
4 gunner res real
jovial heron
Its literally only not diminishing returns if you get 100 to 0'd by a gunner
Can you explain to me why gunner DR does fuck all against head parasite reapers? /s
flat mist
Can you explain to me why gunner DR does fuck all against head parasite reapers?...
Bc they shoot brain eating amoebas
jovial heron
Bc they shoot brain eating amoebas
jovial heron
They so hungry
Fucking starving them? That’s a warcrime
flat mist
Fucking starving them? That’s a warcrime
Is it only a warcrime if i fuck and starve them or also if i just do one or the other?
main trellis
I am sorry if it came off like I was mocking you or trying to hurt your feelings...
Its not my feelings; its about responces & respect - hard to talk to someone when they mock you in every way (not seeing a face or hearing the tone of voice does not help that either anyone); i honestly did not seen those as jokes later on especially after the heated argument…
Dunno if i play today… i barely got time as of recently to play anything 
Regardless; do try forges suggestion; maybe it will show its value? There is also the blinders augment replace option since tox kills from them do not count for their recovery…
jovial heron
Is it only a warcrime if i fuck and starve them or also if i just do one or the ...
Hmmmmm I think one is like “last cigarette” and the other is just necrophilia
flat mist
Hmmmmm I think one is like “last cigarette” and the other is just necrophilia
Deep bro
main trellis
You sick fuck want to watch?
Hey some ppl have different ways of getting off don’t shame 
low harbor
Its literally only not diminishing returns if you get 100 to 0'd by a gunner
It’s just specific to gunner enemies which is what it’s made for anyway
And honestly if u look at total values then I’m pretty sure gunner is still better than 5% toughness for those types of calculations as a comparison (for most classes)
And u can run triple on both
flat mist
It’s just specific to gunner enemies which is what it’s made for anyway
And hon...
Probably true
low harbor
Because for one you’re not getting 200 toughness on every class
You’re getting 200 on usually at most 2 classes and not in havoc
flat mist
Because for one you’re not getting 200 toughness on every class
The 200 was an arbitrary choice
low harbor
Yea I get it
flat mist
But youre not wrong
main trellis
God it would be nice if it affected regular gunners
Still waiting for ‚ranged dmg resist’ perk…
jovial heron
Its not my feelings; its about responces & respect - hard to talk to someone whe...
It’s the problem with discord my brother. I was typing while commuting so it was easier to be direct and not be more nuanced/funnier.
Hope you get to play
I’ll think about it but I am happy with my build.
Yea I got pocket toxin and virulent strain.
jovial heron
Hey some ppl have different ways of getting off don’t shame <:thumbsup_ogryn:106...
I say sick fuck affectionately
jovial heron
I say it after coitus
Before or after the murder? You hi fiving a dead corpse?
main trellis
It’s the problem with discord my brother. I was typing while commuting so it was...
I like how this ended (jesus this sounds soo… brotherly-like it makes me sick 
)
I hope too!
Virulent is amazing; would always keep it and since it a straight line from keystone you can still have it
jovial heron
I like how this ended (jesus this sounds soo… brotherly-like it makes me sick <:...
If I do take forges I would drop Channeled because it is just barely better than the melee aura sigh
low harbor
Ranged DR curio perk prob would have to be a low value to not entirely outclass gunner DR
Like a x0.9 at best
jovial heron
Ranged DR curio perk prob would have to be a low value to not entirely outclass ...
Hey as long as 2 scab gunners can’t murder me in 3 seconds
flat mist
I AM 14
Hey hey i was discussing how the acceptance of mortality and death affects our ability to behave in alignment with our core values and be truly intimate with others (among other topics) for 6 hours today
If i want to mock 14 year olds i will
jovial heron
Hey hey i was discussing how the acceptance of mortality and death affects our a...
This guy looks like an Ogryn in a wig
Damn I want that hairstyle in game
flat mist
This guy looks like an Ogryn in a wig
So your mum
jovial heron
So your mum
Yeah it’s still weird the way you fixate on her bro
Please don’t kill then sleep with and hi five my mom
jovial heron
If you're going to be so precious about it
unique dagger
Gunner resist isnt diminishing returns
yo I'm here to fan the flames again
main trellis
I say sick fuck affectionately
Now that i analysed it more; you spoke very long time ago your language is like that & the way you communicate
My fking memory man…
unique dagger
It is diminishing returns yes, but it isn't diminishing enough to be irrelevant. In fact it is so effective if you aren't taking %20 x 2 or %20 x 3 you're not doing something correctly in havoc
unique dagger
sorry man I don't even know what the topic is I just read gunner resist
main trellis
It is diminishing returns yes, but it isn't diminishing enough to be irrelevant....
2 is a sweet spot as i tested many times
unique dagger
2 is good, if you wanna invest into revive speed too especially
main trellis
Maybe psyker would like 3 but… he needs other things
unique dagger
for my shield build I take a single block reduction perk instead of a third one for example
as it helps me let my block to not be broken
for squishier classes %20 x 3 is also a good option
unique dagger
3x bomber resist
very based option lol, I've actually been enjoying the 40 x gunner 40 x flamer 40x bomber split on ogryn toughnessmaxxing build
makes you basically immortal
pair it with GG and toughness replenishment shit from oggy tree
and you can hold right click to move through fire
xd
compact oyster
pair it with GG and toughness replenishment shit from oggy tree
dodge once and nuke all of your feel no pain stacks lmfao
unique dagger
but yeah it's based but not really that good
you should be good enough to snipe em before they ever can become a threat 
neat delta
crowbar special attack counts as 2 attacks yeah?
plucky nymph
Triple gun resist all classes all builds for me for h40, nothing else enables giga aggression against unlimited gunners
A lot of times toughness wont hit 0 but drops to under 10-15% so all the more resist da better
verbal dew
I mean just always run triple gunner resist, havoc or not
woeful hill
low harbor
crowbar special attack counts as 2 attacks yeah?
Ye it’s actually considered 2 hits for talent checks
Unlike chain weapon ticks
mighty belfry
You can do something really funny with that and a really high crit build with coated weaponry
It's not remotely optimal
But fun
flat mist
You can do something really funny with that and a really high crit build with co...
Whats the really funny thing?
jovial heron
Whats the really funny thing?
Bullying you
mighty belfry
Whats the really funny thing?
Crowbar beak mode with high crit. Each crit procs two toxin DoTs
flat mist
Crowbar beak mode with high crit. Each crit procs two toxin DoTs
Hilarious
flat mist
Bullying you
TRUE
low harbor
TRUE
Btw I’ve been looking more into stagger breakpoints
And my conclusion so far is that +cleave blessings are a bit overrated
And that +str like slaughterer and rampage are frequently quite impactful (hah)
low harbor
Not just that
Higher impact may get u better stagger breakpoints
As well as longer stagger duration (since it scales based on how much u exceed a stagger threshold in successful stagger)
For example, power sword with slaughter is very noticeable in terms of rager stagger duration
Goes from light stagger to medium stagger (which lasts ~twice as long)
Zealot also can fairly easily get +90% impact from talents which significantly changes their stagger performance, especially if +strength blessings are also involved
mighty belfry
We are now living in a tine
Where Slaughterer is a valid choice over Sunder on Power Sword
That's crazy
jovial heron
Crusher???
low harbor
crusher yes but it's already good at stagger baseline
I have stagger breakpoints listed alrdy
jovial heron
Hmmmm does the stagger improvement help thammer with hordes?
low harbor
TH and EV3 are not good at stagger baseline
low harbor
Hmmmm does the stagger improvement help thammer with hordes?
no it's still slow horde clear
but
being able to heavy stagger ragers does help in mixed horde
jovial heron
I mean downed enemies can’t hurt you right?
low harbor
to give u some numbers as comparison
creature spawner's melee pressure (easy)
relic blade IJ impact + rampage with shroud, I got 50~60s to clear
TH is like, 90s+ most of the time
jovial heron
Hey that’s pretty good
jovial heron
Yeah but less chip damage?
low harbor
Hey that’s pretty good
psyker does it in <40s
low harbor
Chad psyker
psyker will never be chad until they get the nerfs they rightfully deserve
low harbor
Yeah but less chip damage?
I do it aiming for no chip basically
low harbor
https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-im-done-oh-lord-oh-no-gif-1363808060963319...
I'm just speaking the truth
but, back to the subject of impact
almost half the reason to take RB on zealot is to blend ragers
jovial heron
I do it aiming for no chip basically
Well I thought the argument was that stagger improvements on thammer helps it be a safer mixed horde answer despite not being a fast killing one
low harbor
as it turns out being able to blend ragers while heavy staggering them
is something else
limber cradle
Crusher on scum would've gone crazy
jovial heron
as it turns out being able to blend ragers while heavy staggering them
Can you hit stagger breakpoints on maulers or ogryns?
low harbor
Well I thought the argument was that stagger improvements on thammer helps it be...
it's definitely safer than without
but it's still a slow weapon with subpar clear
jovial heron
Yeah poor thammer
low harbor
Can you hit stagger breakpoints on maulers or ogryns?
RB is only like 5% impact smth away from being able to break crusher overhead with activated H smiter
so yea not hard just GW is enough
jovial heron
but the real funny to me was EV3
Ooooooo eviscerator staggering????
jovial heron
RB is only like 5% impact smth away from being able to break crusher overhead wi...
Whooooaaaa
low harbor
Ooooooo eviscerator staggering????
u can put like 6 dreg ragers into heavy stagger at the same time
it's hilarious
and it's not even with heavy attack
jovial heron
God damn
low harbor
it's with light attack
jovial heron
Turns out the chainsaw is actually a billy club
low harbor
Turns out the chainsaw is actually a billy club
unlike the bully club this thing actually blends mixed horde tho
jovial heron
I love symmetrical builds lol
jovial heron
unlike the bully club this thing actually blends mixed horde tho
Oooooh yeah eviscerators back baby
mighty belfry
Eviscerator Scum when?
jovial heron
Eviscerator Scum when?
low harbor
the main problem with EV3 stagger is that
it's kinda dependent on punishment + rampage
which means that, if enemies are not grouped up to activate these, u can't stagger as good
a bit inconsistent
jovial heron
Ahhhhh
warm axle
if they arent grouped, then brrrrrr
mystic rain
spice cloud
Iag vraks
fresh locust
what are the blessings people generally like to use on bonesaw
i do deci shred but was wondering if theres other mixes
dense hollow
what are the blessings people generally like to use on bonesaw
shock and awe & decimator
bonesaw hurts to use without the cleave
fresh locust
thank you
zenith pagoda
Oooooh yeah eviscerators back baby
I tried using a crit, perfect strike heavy eviscerator build and its pretty good at melee but the sluggishness makes you too vulnerable to ranged, especially on havoc
Imo latch on weapons should give damage reduction while the animation plays
astral canyon
Just make latch attacks actually scale with attack speed
zenith pagoda
I swear it does for some weapons
astral canyon
I swear it does for some weapons
Nope
zenith pagoda
Make ps activation scale too
astral canyon
The time between the first damage tick and the last is always the same
astral canyon
Make ps activation scale too<:whatthefuck_heresy:1049724444207239168>
Block cancel exists so it wouldnt mean anything
zenith pagoda
There's still a delay, it only cancels the last bit
I love powersword so much I wanna use it on other classes
unreal stirrup
I tried using a crit, perfect strike heavy eviscerator build and its pretty good...
heavy evis attack speed is hell
piety is better but its unusable without marty attack speed imo
north crow
Evis don't have crit bonuses good enough to warrant leaning into it
north crow
or you can just go wrath for the same
yes I know it's not the exact same
it technically is tho
astral canyon
from what i remember the finesse damage bonuses dont decay with cleave too
north crow
it definitely is good enough if you dont wanna deal with the cons of martyr
but I'd prolly go IJ in that case
and I hate IJ 😄
north crow
never liked the inconsistency with
you can't build / play around inconsistency
many makes it work, I fundamentally dislike the idea is all
vapid jungle
The duration node made it less clunky than before imo. More time to build and benefit from it.
trim wind
It's so easy to build stacks that you don't even need it
tranquil fjord
actual ij mention
tranquil fjord
people dont use bonesaw
and when they do, they dont use brittleness much iirc
unless you do some crit and coated weaponry shenanigans
rough peak
do they use the brittleness mixture at all
iirc the main thing the brittleness mode is used for is crushers
fresh locust
damn
bronze glade
yup that's basically it
fresh locust
it's that bad?
rough peak
It's just faster to use the chem toxin version for everything else
manic wolf
It kinda is that bad 😄
fresh locust
I find it awkward as fuck to use but thought it was just me
it doesn't apply toxin that fast
doesn't really work on stimm supply builds
at least I can't make it work for jack
rough peak
Swings weapon > Waits 7 working days for delivery > strike finally lands
14 working days later the 2nd swing finally lands
fresh locust
yeah man let me just
raise my cleaver
annnnndd
oh
someone killed you already!
there goes my toxin buildup
manic wolf
14 working days later the 2nd swing finally lands
Legit. Meanwhile TacAxe, Knife and Shiv be like clicking the button and 0.001ms later the swing lands with the velocity of a overdosing crackhead being shot out of a circus cannon 
austere coyote
it's a shame that crowbar and saw are both so shit when they look so cool
fresh locust
idk I like crowbar the most out of the scum weapons
it hits shit really hard
I don't use it for havoc so idk abt there
fresh locust
your blessings are also limited in that
you're basically always running superiority
and then can opener i see as the popular choice
north crow
opportunist is fine if you take the 25% heavy rend with
you can heavy spam crushers with alternate attacks
it will 2 shot an auric crusher
crowbar is what you get when you design a weapon with a weakness when the game has many that has none really
doa
you can actually kill crushers even without swapping
wind crane
so does every meta melee build involve toxin now? with coated weaponry
bronze glade
the strongest melee build is simply unga bunga with rampage/adren rashad
wind crane
everytime, something with toxin
astral canyon
You go bottom right mostly for splash damage and virulent
wind crane
it farms
dry tapir
I run
Needle Pistol
Shiv
Rampage
Blinder Grenade with added toxin node who's name escapes me
There's no goal with that setup
Don't think too hard into it
There we are node is Pocket Toxin
I run Pocket Toxin and Splash Damage for maximum trolling
This Combo is nice too
north crow
toxin splash is another one of those talents that look good on paper
but does next to nothing
2 stacks time out like insta
that 2 is hard to pass up on anymore with taxe / shivs
like 30% dmg
for doing nothing
jovial heron
I tried using a crit, perfect strike heavy eviscerator build and its pretty good...
Damn it
jovial heron
Imo latch on weapons should give damage reduction while the animation plays
Yeah or put you in a dodge state so you aren’t targeted but still take damage from aoe effects
The animation specials seem to be a weakness in a lot of weapons like Deimos force sword for instance
north crow
huh
I mean
given their power, I'd say it's a fair tradeoff
risk vs reward
at least it's not thunder hammer
rough peak
Hive scum thammer when?
zenith pagoda
The force push of the force sword is far better than the special lol
lucid siren
Yea def
Shiv/knife scum can reach 75-95% crit chance
I guess zealot is ”safer” with undeath but Hive scums extreme protection from gunners and 50% toughness every 15 seconds from stim is just too good
lucid siren
Yeah ofc
north crow
darktide uses psedo random crit, you are likely to crit on first hit from 67%
and you can get exactly 67% on taxe and 67.5% on shivs
livid raven
brainrot mathematics
bronze glade
where's irosk when you need him, he's the channel's math teacher
jovial heron
where's irosk when you need him, he's the channel's math teacher
Don’t gas him up man! He will be intolerable
/s
rough peak
Darktide follows the latest brainrots
lucid siren
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/s...
Holy 144p
bronze glade
turn on dlss
jovial heron
turn on dlss
Still broken probably
north crow
that was FSR
junior lintel
does uzis cause stagger? wondering is cheap shots is worth on an uzi build
livid raven
a bit
not that much, i don't think it does at all against elites
so not good if you are thinking that
junior lintel
yeah trying to use speed reload with run n gun so trying to get as much damage as possible since I'm not taking blaze away
livid raven
why not
livid raven
not sure why you are running run n gun and speedloader tho
junior lintel
it's fun and I got used to running and gunning with autopistol lol
livid raven
autopistols can already fire while running
junior lintel
ohhhhh nice
livid raven
both the shredder and the dual autopistols can fire while running
run n gun only increases the damage a bit while running and accuracy
junior lintel
well that is helpful, thank you
livid raven
imo, i would run blaze away and that other one that increases damage on staggers
i forgor the name
junior lintel
pinning fire?
livid raven
yeah that one
junior lintel
will give it a shot
unkempt salmon
17% Toughness curios DO NOT EXIST on Scoom
I'm gonna lose it
I just got three +3 stams and two 16%ers
And there certainly ain't been a single 17 from Brunt or Melk
Whatever remake they've got planned for Curios cannot come too soon
jovial heron
The emperor clearly wants us to run all stamina
raw sierra
are the pinned builds still relevant
lilac schooner
are the pinned builds still relevant
not really the talent tree changed since then and ranged build kinda bad now
jovial heron
I have to use this other weapon they gave me instead of just hold down left click
/s
raw sierra
where can I find some updated builds? Any good ones on gameslantern?
jovial heron
where can I find some updated builds? Any good ones on gameslantern?
What kind of scum are you making?
Melee? Ranged? Tox? What kind of weapons do you like?
rough peak
mostly the pickpocket nerf
raw sierra
dunno I wanna try some builds and see which I like best
jovial heron
Lots of people here can provide build examples but we need more understanding of what you want
north crow
pick a weapon and a keystone, and we'll make a build for ya
lilac schooner
the strongest build is melee
rough peak
pick a weapon and a keystone, and we'll make a build for ya
mk1 dclaw, left keystone
north crow
rofl
rough peak
north crow
you'll catch me masturbate with a cheese grater before using a devil's claw
jovial heron
dunno I wanna try some builds and see which I like best
The way hivescum tree is you can make many different weapons work so it’s a lot like zealot in that the weapon you want to use kind of informs the build direction
jovial heron
you'll catch me masturbate with a cheese grater before using a devil's claw
Devils claw is actually pretty good
Hivescum talents are pretty nuts
jovial heron
Yeah I am not patient enough
lilac schooner
dclaw is buns
jovial heron
Bruh moment works some magic on carapace (knocking them on their ass) and against bosses Dclaw is nuts
north crow
but 150% melee str does wonders lol
jovial heron
but 150% melee str does wonders lol
I mean the really high crit modifier on Taxe DOES pair well with the critical maxing class
north crow
its not even that
it just fits rotten DR mechanic better than shivs
from my experience
headtaker + relentless
as their DR lowers, your damage ramps up
perfectly synched
I didn't time it, but it feels better vs rotten than the oh-so OP shivs
partly because of the goated pushattack stagger
jovial heron
Huh no bromentum but yeah that probably works great into single target
lilac schooner
im pretty sure i checked the tac4 dps on crushers its less than tac7
low harbor
mk4 has the 4.5 cleave lights
3
low harbor
it's 3
low harbor
mk7 and 2 have 1.5 for 2 atks and 3 for one (mk7 also has power lvl modifier that makes them cleave a bit more and hit a bit harder)
low harbor
however 1.5 vs 3 is almost no difference vs havoc mass
north crow
mk4 only has 3 cleave lights + 50% rampage + 25% rampage node + 25% headtaker + 50% relentless / decimator
and you really don't need BM anymore
you can just light spam and be fine
and cut rotten packs the fuck up with heavy spam with the 25% rend node
I was genuinly surprised how good that dogshit mk is on scum
jovial heron
mk4 only has 3 cleave lights + 50% rampage + 25% rampage node + 25% headtaker + ...
75% rampage?
low harbor
rampage is 50%
rampage cleave subnode gives another 25%
raw sierra
pick a weapon and a keystone, and we'll make a build for ya
i guess I like the needle pistol? no idea about anything else, as I said I just wanna try a few good builds to get an idea of what the class can do and decide what I like
lilac schooner
and cut rotten packs the fuck up with heavy spam with the 25% rend node
i feel like the 25% rend node is not worth it
lilac schooner
I tested it before and after on shivs it doesnt change the damage too much
north crow
with the uppercut being 10% more dmg on top
it chops shit up
shivs have 60% carapace ADM to begin with
low harbor
i feel like the 25% rend node is not worth it
for tac axe, rending makes a big difference
north crow
and uncanny
you reach 100% ADM on shivs without the node
its a waste
unless you dont wanna take uncanny
but you really should
heavy spam mk4 taxe, it shines on
lilac schooner
unless you dont wanna take uncanny
nothing better to take except precog maybe
low harbor
there is nothing better to take
north crow
depends, I have riposte now, because I had to free up the ghetto riposte on the tree
to grab the 15% melee str
so if you don't have 25% WS + 15% melee
than uncanny precog
or uncanny riposte if you haven't the 20% from tree
astral canyon
I wouldnt run precog without riposte
north crow
riposte is redundant if you already have the 20% from tree and stacks
astral canyon
riposte is redundant if you already have the 20% from tree and stacks
No?
north crow
once you reach 67% crit, anything more is redundant
jovial heron
i guess I like the needle pistol? no idea about anything else, as I said I just ...
Needle pistol is super fun but really more as an addition to a melee focus build since the melee lets you kill hordes and you use needle pistol to kill specials, bosses, armor etc
astral canyon
With both you get +40% crit on dodges
astral canyon
Which is huge for something that scales with finesse as well as shivs do
north crow
once you hit 67.5%, you will crit on first hit because of pseudo random distribution more often than not
that point is usually better spent elsewhere
astral canyon
once you hit 67.5%, you will crit on first hit because of pseudo random distribu...
Im hitting stuff more than once
north crow
I suppose
astral canyon
Like there is always more than one enemy
north crow
I generally don't bother going over 67%, if I see something else I can make sense of grabbing
and the new node is definitely one
astral canyon
What new node?
north crow
15% str from crit is free on taxe / shivs
astral canyon
Thats 15% damage
astral canyon
Not strength
north crow
but now it's hard to pass up
astral canyon
I didn't use to take 25% WS
On shivs???
low harbor
15% str from crit is free on taxe / shivs
u kinda did
north crow
oh
I have indeed
I meant dmg yea, my bad
my point is
that 2 gives you 30%+ dmg, I will trade the 20% extra crit over 67% for gladly
low harbor
67% crit is roughly crit every other atk
north crow
since the return won't be 20% crit on it
low harbor
with that said
north crow
yea i know, its never a bad idea to have more crit, I jsut value 30% dmg over
low harbor
riposte is better than FLAB
north crow
aye
low harbor
just because it lasts longer
north crow
exctly what I did
low harbor
and even though 67% crit chance is somewhat of a breakpoint
north crow
dropped precog for riposte, and moved that point elsewhere
precog is insanely good vs bosses
lilac schooner
are the pinned builds still relevant
north crow
but 30% dmg is more consistent
low harbor
higher crit above 67% is not irrelevant
low harbor
it's not redundant either
north crow
with the dmg you can reach on rampage scum, you will oneshot a lot of things
north crow
did not know that
low harbor
but crit 9/10 times is better than 7/10 times
jovial heron
i guess I like the needle pistol? no idea about anything else, as I said I just ...
More options for you to try too have fun and find what works for you and is more fun
low harbor
on a weapon with >2 finesse
rough peak
dt's PRD uses int truncation
I have no clue what this means
rough peak
Ah
jovial heron
That is what truncation means yeah
low harbor
I have no clue what this means
DT uses pseudo random generation but the model has integer truncation (it rounds down, basically)
Which results in lower chance values getting a much more stretched pity
(Which also explains why low chance RNG in this game feel seriously RNG)
north crow
but the soft breakpoint of 67% still applies?
rough peak
(Which also explains why low chance RNG in this game feel seriously RNG)
Interesting
low harbor
I personally don’t ever think about soft breakpoints like that
I think it’s generally better to crit-twice-or-more more often than “crit every other atk from a pity system”
north crow
I just like consistency
low harbor
Opportunity cost is the only limiting factor and I still don’t think many talents compete well with ~90% crit chance on demand for >2 finesse weapons
low harbor
If this was smth like combat axe then yes obviously damage better
north crow
not sure how meaningful 50% cleave after the nerf tho
it might be completely cosmetic lol
mighty belfry
not sure how meaningful 50% cleave after the nerf tho
Its noticeable but not at all a dealbreaker
north crow
oh wait, those are meant to be blackouts
mighty belfry
If we're talking shiv
north crow
yea
I could feel the difference before
but I was mostly playing taxe4 lately
so unsure as of now
mighty belfry
Yeah shivs while still really strong
You can tell they just don't chew through hordes as safely
At base cleave
And 50% of an already low value doesn't really add that much so overall, you're not really getting much out of trying to make the shivs do more cleave than they're really meant to
jovial heron
Balance is nice
north crow
yea, I haven't really tested since the cleave nerf
but even if it lets me hit 2 instead 1 on havoc
jovial heron
And 50% of an already low value doesn't really add that much so overall, you're ...
Pffff percentage maths strike again
north crow
I think it's good value
mighty belfry
But it would help for the downtime
north crow
I had the misfortune of having played a 4 scum havoc with only me being melee
mighty belfry
Lmao
jovial heron
I had the misfortune of having played a 4 scum havoc with only me being melee
I feel like it’s rare for me to see actual melee scum in havoc
north crow
you don't need help at all with rampage up
jovial heron
Most seem to just try to go needle pistol and run away
north crow
I died so many times trying to melee during rampage downtime
jovial heron
Like thanks for stim supply but it’s not blight buddy
north crow
so I just changed my build around
mighty belfry
Like thanks for stim supply but it’s not blight buddy
Tbh
north crow
feels miserably being weak without rampage up
mighty belfry
Melee scum + strength stimm scum
north crow
which is not an issue until you are the only melee really, but still
mighty belfry
Has got me some of the easiest wins I've ever had in havoc
jovial heron
<:pepehm:1066071732504498277>
I mean I saw chainaxe chad rampage scum the other day. Lots of damage but uh positioning and teamwork were unfortunate
north crow
I also stopped using scum blitzes and needler
north crow
thing is like a more braindead inferno staff
however is that possible
toxin in itself just screams p2w
mighty belfry
I also stopped using scum blitzes and needler
I just run blackouts without toxin at this point
north crow
blackout is so good tho, that's the sad part
it would legit be a top tier pick
if it wouldn't have to compete with the 2 most overtuned braindead shit
this game has ever seen
mighty belfry
It still is imho
north crow
every DoT has a weakness, do you know which one is toxin's?
0.1 VOID SHIELD ADM
:DDDDDDD
mighty belfry
Captain shields lmaooo
lilac schooner
I feel like it’s rare for me to see actual melee scum in havoc
wat melee scum is the strongest melee build rn
north crow
highest dmg yes
mighty belfry
wat melee scum is the strongest melee build rn
Doesn't mean they actually play MELEE scun
north crow
you can't make many mistakes with tho
mighty belfry
As in they're frauds
north crow
easier to just pump everything full of toxin
mighty belfry
And just use needle Pistol and kite
lilac schooner
i dont even use needle pistol bolt pistol better
mighty belfry
Needle pistol and bolt Pistol are good for completely different reasons
lilac schooner
they kinda have the same niche, special/elite killing
jovial heron
wat melee scum is the strongest melee build rn
Tacaxe, Caxe, knife, shivs I think but that’s my opinion
lilac schooner
but no stagger
lilac schooner
then no rocket instantly bad build
north crow
lol
right sorry
truth be told, I still value chem nade higher
rocket lets you fuck up
mighty belfry
they kinda have the same niche, special/elite killing
They handle those niches completely differently though
north crow
but chem nade just melts everything
mighty belfry
You can't really compare them both in how they handle those targets
mighty belfry
And needle has one more niche that bistol doesn't
Which is extremely easy to proc, sustainable boss damage
lilac schooner
needle pistols only upside is killing bosses
north crow
that is a very debatable only
lilac schooner
but shivs dispatch bosses just as quick so its not needed tbh
mighty belfry
Yeah. That's a much bigger upside than you realize when you consider you can just shoot the boss and leave them alone completely and still reliably kill them.
lilac schooner
oh yeah thats another thing thats not very good the poison coating is meh to me
lilac schooner
mmost targets die before you get like more than 2 stacks
north crow
coating is mostly good for upkeeping stacks on bosses
its not there for dmg
its maintenance!
mighty belfry
Coating is also good in synergy with splash damage
north crow
unless you mean toxic renewal, LOL
lilac schooner
I think I'd only taking it if I'm taking all those poison talents but they are so much points spread out
mighty belfry
Makes really bulky elite groups a lot easier to deal with
north crow
I've stopped using splash
2 stacks in 4m radius is meh imo
I can see it being nice vs rotten
but don't miss it with taxe
lilac schooner
It's like discount psyker fire
mighty belfry
2 stacks in 4m radius is meh imo
It helps give more value to coated. I think both talents alone aren't really great
north crow
yea I can get behind that logic
mighty belfry
But together, they do actually provide meaningful benefits in elite dense hordes
lilac schooner
wildfire im pretty sure is just on the path of meta psyker so its not really a tax
north crow
for msot build that would be correct
the melee nodes are on the other route
but than again, why are you not playing melee psyker, are you hating on fun?
low harbor
and wildfire is also kinda shit
Wildfire is basically “everything u fight start at 4 stacks of fire”
low harbor
For flame staff yea it is basically just that
It distributes the 4 stacks on enemies nearby
It snowballs into everything starting at 4 pretty easily
U can check it with the new enemies improved mod
north crow
it is really good at taking ownership of the blaze dots
but the dmg it brings with purg is marginal
mighty belfry
It's still extra guaranteed DoTs to propagate
north crow
is what I've been told by purg OTP
low harbor
Its a pretty strong QoL talent for pathing
jovial heron
Wildfire isn't necessary.
It is better than going fucking Empyric shock on an inferno
north crow
ionno, I only play melee psyker nowadays
mighty belfry
And it helps with the soulblaze adjacent talents
low harbor
but the dmg it brings with purg is marginal
Evaluating a talent purely by its damage is not that great actually
north crow
I wont argue with that
meow told me he uses it for taking ownership primarily
and I don't argue with meow on purga lol
not much of a psyker enjoyer to begin with
low harbor
It’s easier to think of it as “-25% of time needed to max stack for inferno vs large groups”
jovial heron
wtf does ownership mean lmao
low harbor
wtf does ownership mean lmao
Dot ownership
north crow
It’s easier to think of it as “-25% of time needed to max stack for inferno vs l...
I suppose it helps starting the overcap sooner if you run shriek
and that can be a decent deal
jovial heron
Dot ownership
So yellow maxing? How pro
low harbor
So yellow maxing? How pro
It’s mostly damage number chasers that care
AKA mostly psyker players
north crow
sadly, purga lost most of its minmax value nowadays
its so unhinged overtuned
minmaxing it won't make that big of a difference compared to before
PC proccing on blaze literally lowered psyker skill ceiling
a lot
seeing a purga psyker consistently top dmg pre13 used to be feat
jovial heron
AKA mostly psyker players
low harbor
Wdym prob
Ik I am lol
Majority of scoreboard chasers are psyker players
It’s like the only way to validate psyker performance now
rough peak
Oof
jovial heron
Majority of scoreboard chasers are psyker players
Again probably right but I assume this is a gut metric not a survey
low harbor
Like, doing well on psyker is not enough
Doing giga million damage on psyker is more important
mighty belfry
Again probably right but I assume this is a gut metric not a survey
Psyker players are the only people I've been deliberately asked to change my load out for so they could farm damage
low harbor
What do other classes post to say they played well “yea I did more damage than psyker and clutched”
jovial heron
Bruh I just want to win and see if I was ass
rough peak
Doing giga million damage on psyker is more important
Playing psyker sounds like a pain then
low harbor
What do psyker players post to say they played well “yoooo 4 million damage”
It’s just not the same mentality there
jovial heron
It’s just not the same mentality there
So you are saying other classes never post yellow number pictures? Cause they don’t chase top damage
Hmmmm
low harbor
So you are saying other classes never post yellow number pictures? Cause they do...
Where did I say that
jovial heron
Majority of scoreboard chasers are psyker players
Right here?
Based off of gut check?
low harbor
So what’s the difference?
The difference is that psyker damage is so ridiculously overboard that it’s just expected they mog everyone else in damage
unreal stirrup
psyker is braindead easy to get top damage
jovial heron
low harbor
So much so that “yea I did more damage than psyker” is considered doing rly well in dps for those other classes
jovial heron
psyker is braindead easy to get top damage
Yeah not arguing that
low harbor
But psyker players chase damage more because it’s the only way to validate their performance
jovial heron
But psyker players chase damage more because it’s the only way to validate their...
So how do other classes track performance?
low harbor
So how do other classes track performance?
Do u actually think og or vet performance go off the same metric as psyker (damage chasing)
jovial heron
Do u actually think og or vet performance go off the same metric as psyker (dama...
I don’t think og do (except gunlugger and rumbler spam exist) and you’re right I forgot about vet plasma and power sword support number maxing
mighty belfry
I personally think
jovial heron
I personally think
Whoa name change
low harbor
I don’t think og do (except gunlugger and rumbler spam exist) and you’re right I...
What support number
mighty belfry
Damage to signify a class' performance
Is a flawed metric to begin with
I think trying to gather performance off of numbers in itself is flawed
jovial heron
What support number
I was being facetious about how majority of vets seem to go plasma powersword in havoc
Which is not a support build
jovial heron
Is a flawed metric to begin with
Agreed
low harbor
I was being facetious about how majority of vets seem to go plasma powersword in...
Plasma is 1 point cheaper than other guns to run
And power sword is just best vet melee so yea
jovial heron
Plasma is 1 point cheaper than other guns to run
Does it do lots of damage to hp bloated enemies?
low harbor
If more of other melee weapons were good I’d run them more
low harbor
So much so that “yea I did more damage than psyker” is considered doing rly well...
I just said this?
jovial heron
This game is like 2 years old and has like 3-4000 people playing. I think the ones sticking around are mostly number chasing?
jovial heron
I just said this?
low harbor
I think trying to gather performance off of numbers in itself is flawed
Depends on which numbers get looked at
low harbor
Yea and I’m not wrong
jovial heron
Some of the people playing literally can't number chase
Fair
low harbor
Majority of psyker performance evaluation is “how much did they mog everyone else in damage”
jovial heron
Yea and I’m not wrong
Evidence being???
low harbor
Cuz the class is so ridiculously op that if they’re not significantly ahead in damage they’re not doing well enough
mighty belfry
I would like to be an advocate of the devil and say that while not every psyker is playing for the sake of number chasing
There is definitely a fair few that play solely to do that.
jovial heron
There is definitely a fair few that play solely to do that.
I agree with this
low harbor
Not every psyker plays for numbers, but most of the number chasers do it on psyker because psyker is easiest to farm damage
mighty belfry
And again ime psyker players are the only people that have deliberately asked me to change my loadout so they can max their dps output
low harbor
And even the other people chasing numbers generally acknowledge that because psyker is so op, them not being way ahead in damage means they’re not doing well enough
mighty belfry
No other class, I've had that experience with.
low harbor
Is this wrong?
jovial heron
And again ime psyker players are the only people that have deliberately asked me...
Ironic, I’ve had mostly veteran players, and Ogrin players request me to change my loadout to be inferno
mental igloo
the avg is bad
jovial heron
The avg of every class is bad
Law of averages
mental igloo
and havoc pubs still gonna lose maybe one match tops before saying "we need bubble purga etc"
rough peak
Some averages are worse, but, yeah the average player is ass
low harbor
The difference between a mediocre psyker and a rly good psyker is that the really good psyker will do more damage than everyone else by miles whereas the mediocre psyker does just a bit more than everyone else
mighty belfry
Most of us are most likely anomalies compared to the average lol
low harbor
The difference between a mediocre ogryn and a really good ogryn is that the mediocre ogryn allows u to play the game normally
jovial heron
The difference between a mediocre psyker and a rly good psyker is that the reall...
Truth
rough peak
Most of us are most likely anomalies compared to the average lol
We have target prioritization, of coures we're anomalies
Just knowing what enemies to target first makes you better than most average players x.x
jovial heron
We have target prioritization, of coures we're anomalies
No, I always go for dregs specialists and carapace are for other people /s
mighty belfry
No, I always go for dregs specialists and carapace are for other people /s
Yes this is vet's role
mighty belfry
The dedicated specialist sniper 
jovial heron
I’ve just been saying the truth this whole time
Nah you’ve been spitting opinions mixed with truth
north crow
new ogryn passive is so much better than I thought it would be
you can really reallocate points from def with
low harbor
Nah you’ve been spitting opinions mixed with truth
Opinion on what? Psyker being evaluated almost purely off damage?
You know that’s true
jovial heron
You know that’s true
I agreed with that. Don’t agree with the “all Psykers are scoreboard chasers”
mighty belfry
I don't give a shit if the psyker does more damage than everyone
low harbor
I agreed with that. Don’t agree with the “all Psykers are scoreboard chasers”
I didn’t say all psykers are scoreboard chasers
I said “majority of scoreboard chasers are psykers”
north crow
I play melee psyker exclusively, because greatsword is the single best melee in the game
low harbor
This does not go in reverse
north crow
I said it, come at me!
rough peak
I said it, come at me!
I have 1 thing to say to you... Hi
north crow
wish I could trade relic with psyker greatsword for a day
rough peak
jovial heron
I said “majority of scoreboard chasers are psykers”
You did yes
low harbor
You did yes
Yea so don’t twist my words
low harbor
I don't give a shit if the psyker does more damage than everyone
This is just acceptance lol
jovial heron
Yea so don’t twist my words
Lmao I just admitted I said it wrong when you made a big generalization based on zero data just vibes
low harbor
It devalues the psyker’s personal skill because looking at damage number is more directly reflective
rough peak
I am seeing both sides of the arguement and it's hurting my brain x.x
jovial heron
I just wanna do enough dmg
Oh hey what class do you play? Sounds like psyker /s
north crow
I rather pick up a trauma and bitchslap everything around, than melt the world with purga
low harbor
Lmao I just admitted I said it wrong when you made a big generalization based on...
U reversed what I said then assumed that’s what I said, idk what ur trying to tell me now
rough peak
I just wanna do enough dmg
All I care about is not dying and murdicating specialists, the rest is icing on the cake
jovial heron
U reversed what I said then assumed that’s what I said, idk what ur trying to te...
? The difference between majority and all is a complete reversal?
low harbor
? The difference between majority and all is a complete reversal?
“Majority of scoreboard chasers are psykers” does not logically equate to “all psykers are scoreboard chasers”
rough peak
having that said, play melee psyker kids, it's fun!
I want to get into psyker, but, I just don't feel like leveling mine up anymore
low harbor
P->Q doesn’t flow backwards
jovial heron
“Majority of scoreboard chasers are psykers” does not logically equate to “all p...
Yes and I agreed? With that
north crow
your head can't hurt, if you don't have one
jovial heron
So what are u arguing rn I don’t get it
This made me think you said all
north crow
ever thought about it?
north crow
just finished my taunt ogryn build in division 2!
jovial heron
I mean I agree that a lot of Psykers chase numbers for sure but I also think every class does that
low harbor
What I meant more was that it’s easier to reduce psyker performance to a damage number
jovial heron
But I can see how psyker causes a gravitation because the ceiling is higher
jovial heron
What I meant more was that it’s easier to reduce psyker performance to a damage ...
Fair yeah
low harbor
I don’t think psyker ceiling is higher
It’s just easier to farm damage
With less skill required
jovial heron
I don’t think psyker ceiling is higher
Misspoke I meant it’s easier to get big number
Like I don’t think any other class can get 4 million damage
low harbor
Like, melee pressure in meat grinder
queen saffron
I thought it was paraphrasing since not everything can be worded right, but the argument stands
low harbor
Every other class has to learn slots and stagger and target priority and all that
Psyker just needs to hold 2 buttons repeatedly
And press dodge
jovial heron
Rending trauma is pretty support though
rough peak
And press dodge
It's battle wizard with less steps
low harbor
And still get more than twice of RB mixed horde dps
astral canyon
Rending trauma is pretty support though
Doesnt it still do a fuckton of damage
rough peak
purgatus is boring to me as well
low harbor
I would be ok with psyker doing 40~50% more than other classes in mixed horde dps in really dedicated setups but not anywhere near 2x+
jovial heron
Doesnt it still do a fuckton of damage
Yeah but it’s more work involved and pretty sure it can’t reach purga Shriek numbers
queen saffron
Love more stagger control
jovial heron
I mean it’s staggering and debuffing enemies
north crow
I would be ok with psyker doing 40~50% more than other classes in mixed horde dp...
does DT code permit putting a cap on blaze targets?
low harbor
does DT code permit putting a cap on blaze targets?
Soulblaze already has a cap at 31
jovial heron
Target cap
low harbor
Wildfire already can do that
north crow
is there such a thing in the code
low harbor
Only up to 4 targets
rough peak
easiest solution
Review bomb from psyker players
low harbor
Because there’re 2 kinds of bad psyker players
The psyker players that don’t know what they’re doing
raven shard
https://klipy.com/gifs/amor-263
low harbor
And the psyker players that know too well what they’re doing
rough peak
And the psyker players that know too well what they’re doing
real
north crow
but but
low harbor
And both camps are gonna be pissed off about psyker nerfs
low harbor
And FS have been really conservative with balance changes recently (outside of hive scum)
rough peak
And FS have been really conservative with balance changes recently (outside of h...
Especially with how the current playerbase reacts to them
mental igloo
And both camps are gonna be pissed off about psyker nerfs
Do it with releasing 5th staff so players can also complain that it sucks
jovial heron
Pickpocket nerfed hivescum ruined
low harbor
It would be nice if psyker had a mechanically complex class-exclusive melee weapon
But I guess not
Maybe when they make a third variant of FGS they could make it
rough peak
I want more psyker staffs myself
That's the main thing I don't like about psyker.... only 4 staff options
I want more staff choices
low harbor
Make a 5th staff where the main function is it being a staff and not being a magic staff
rough peak
Make a 5th staff where the main function is it being a staff and not being a mag...
A staff that shoots bullets
astral canyon
https://klipy.com/gifs/amor-263
Pohn Jork
jovial heron
Honestly there needs to be blanket changes to numbers scaling back classes AND enemy hp bloat and numbers (save the struggling engine)
rough peak
Hang on, gotta reload my staff
rancid plaza
A staff that shoots bullets
may be outta spells but not outta shells
queen saffron
Similar to crusher, but remove the top part and you can swing faster
rough peak
The thought of reloading a staff is hilarious to me
low harbor
Honestly there needs to be blanket changes to numbers scaling back classes AND e...
My guess is newest event might be an experimentation towards that
jovial heron
My guess is newest event might be an experimentation towards that
Would love that. The inferno huge creep is an admitted problem but I do think once that is scaled back it will be some other class that steps in.
low harbor
The other half of the problem is that the balance currently hinges between
Duo auric
And quad h40
jovial heron
The fear to nerf classes seems to be a DLC class recent problem
low harbor
Which is not a healthy place to be at
jovial heron
Yeah
low harbor
It’s not fully “quad h40” balance
north crow
and is past the point of return imo
rough peak
If they set the numbers right it will probably piss way too many people off
jovial heron
Not entirely sure what the solution is too because some of the lower difficulties are a struggle for some players. Would love the back end numbers for success rates on different difficulties
north crow
I've played this game more than any other in my life, and I don't think there is fixing it anymore
low harbor
Reduce spawn budget by like 10~15%, tweak specialist surge PRD, and scale back AOE stuff (not cleave)
jovial heron
I almost wonder if the elite event is like a test balloon for average skill level cause it’s basically havoc numbers of elites but zero chaff
rough peak
Having to struggle for success without it being due to enemy spam would be fun
enemy spam is not fun
low harbor
Reduce spawn budget by like 10~15%, tweak specialist surge PRD, and scale back A...
Conservative changes