hivescum-class

[mighty belfry]

It's 100% an option dude

[stray mulch]

more input than just commiting to melee only

[spice cloud]

I doubt that even havoc crushers are much trouble for melee scum.

[cunning creek]

I mean crushers can be easily dealt with if you know what you’re doing lol

[stray mulch]

you arent going to be ranged the entire time

[mighty belfry]

Because you don't even have to kill rot to proc pickpocket

[cunning creek]

With needle pistol, just shoot 4 shots per crusher

[stray mulch]

2-3

4 is wild

depending on damage 1 clip can kill 3 cruchers

[lilac schooner]

It's like 6-8 weakspot hits per crusher its not really that easy with no melee talents

[cunning creek]

Hmm I dunno I remember test it being 4 in psykhanium

[stray mulch]

or 2 if you dont have the damage

[mighty belfry]

And besides

Even if it's not great against crushers

Wow.

That's.

One enemy in the roster.

As opposed to quite literally every other enemy that just gets mowed down because that's the only enemy that's fully carapace covered

[cunning creek]

I mean the fact that everyone’s build is centered around crushers does raise an eyebrow on the crusher

[mighty belfry]

If you're playing ranged scum, at that point you've kind of relegated yourself to not being the most optimal for that one enemy while excelling at killing mostly everything else.

[lilac schooner]

yes because theyre spammed in havoc gun scum sucks against them so they were not really optimal in havoc before the nerf anyways

[mighty belfry]

Being worse at one enemy doesn't suddenly invalidate how powerful the thing is for every other one.

[lilac schooner]

most havoc builds need consistent ways to deal with armor (crushers) or theyre pretty much trash

unless you have a premade that can shore up your weaknesses

[stray mulch]

Same amount of shots with or without the crit

and in havoc you just need to leverage the damage from talents a bit more

actually a correction is needed: you will only 2 shot if you crit at least once or are amping at least 1 or 2 ticks with run n gun

[cunning creek]

Also I did some play testing vs crushers in psykhanium and would like go vs 10-12 of them or so at a time

Hmm I think I change my stance on the crusher where “full carapace armor” for him being the problem

I think the main issue is:

• his actual AOE is larger than the visual attack of the weapon, I found that sometimes even when dodging backwards or a bit away from his attack, I still take damage (and pair that with the first point)

• The fact that sometimes even if you slide, he will also start sliding with you and hit you slightly

• The fact that it’s also more so about stamina than anything, where like of course you will die to a crusher if you can’t dodge his overhead, pair that with multiple overheads at the same time from (in this case 10-12 of them)

So like I think “nerfing” carapace armor in itself just doesn’t solve the problem

[stray mulch]

im not sure FS will nerf carapace

they went out of their way to buff them for a reason

they were negligable threats depending on how you viewed carapace enemies before the update

crushers were dead before arrival in melee

[cunning creek]

Yeah because carapace armor type is not an issue, the crusher himself does other things that ruin people’s runs

Well for majority I mean

[stray mulch]

crushers only get away with waht they do now because of the buffs to hp for carapace enemies

im not talking about for the general public i think because more ppl will die to whatever

but generally crushers were dying left and right to MOST things, Maulers too

so the HP bump was justified so that they could apply pressure in game to ppl who would just dispatch them on sight before

[lilac schooner]

I mean I can take 10-12 crushers easily on melee hs, gunscum its gonna take a while. In havoc, you're probably going to die at that rate.

[stray mulch]

10-12 crushers die to boom

[mighty belfry]

just

kite them

[stray mulch]

gunscum can still do some melee too

[mighty belfry]

Dude

[cunning creek]

Well when I tested I didn’t use any abilities or blitzes

Just pure melee and dodge

[mighty belfry]

You have the most bonkers movement in the game with gunscum

Use it.

[stray mulch]

alley rat is abuseable against crushers imo

[cunning creek]

I mean yeah definitely I’d just see 20 crushers in a game I’d just go “ROCKET LAWNCHER”

lol

[mighty belfry]

Yeah it may take a while. But if you're able to just stay out of their range the whole time, what does that even matter?

[cunning creek]

But here what I did was just pure melee

[stray mulch]

pure melee you probably try to box, get tapped by some random dude then die to 1/20 crushers right after

seen it too many times

[cunning creek]

Lmao

[stray mulch]

looking at the perspective of only a play with the neccessary skill to pull it off is bad

that isn't most ppl

[lilac schooner]

A real situation the enemies will be piling faster than you can kill them through kiting with specials spawning, it's not viable

[stray mulch]

having space to do what they explained IS a real situation

not a good argument

[mighty belfry]

That's a positioning issue then.

[stray mulch]

^

exactly

[mighty belfry]

You literally, can kite nearly infinitely. Your ability makes you immune to gunfire with a movement boost.

Your keystone gives you ranged immunity on crits, and more movement speed.

[stray mulch]

positioning, resource management, the team -- a lot of things matter, but no situation taking into account these variables is ''unrealistic''

[mighty belfry]

You can give yourself means of rending through Desperado's subnode and rending stimms

What more do you need my dude?

[cunning creek]

Do people sleep on vulture’s mark? I see more running chem dependency

[stray mulch]

ppl will sleep on anything in this server if ppl talk bad enough about it

like 10% melee over 5% crit

[cunning creek]

Me when a tanner video

(FYI I don’t follow tanner’s builds as much)

[mighty belfry]

It's like you're just ignoring so many of the means of how gunscum can pretty much invalidate most of the threats in this game still.

[cunning creek]

Lmao

[low harbor]

+50% dodge distance is pretty huge for bonesaw
Don’t think it’s necessary otherwise tho

I don’t think any of the 3 dodge improving talents are rly needed

[mighty belfry]

It's pretty good for heavy sword ngl

[stray mulch]

they arent

[low harbor]

It’s decent QoL but I just damage max basically

[stray mulch]

but you give too many ppl credit, those like me are still bad enough to need it

[low harbor]

I would rather get stagger talent over dodge

[mighty belfry]

I like being able to dodge to close distance on things I normally wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

[low harbor]

I just Rashad 1 tap 4 ragers per swing

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[stray mulch]

dodge distance is just good for mobility in general

[cunning creek]

I think jittery is amazing personally

[lilac schooner]

I haven't seen any gun scums since the picpocket nerf so yeah you probably wont see much vulture mark

[cunning creek]

I still run it

[mighty belfry]

I've seen two of em

[stray mulch]

dodge sliding and back dodge slides are just good distance creators

[cunning creek]

Probably not in havoc

[mighty belfry]

Held up just fine.

[cunning creek]

But I don’t play havoc anyway

[mighty belfry]

H30+ too.

[cunning creek]

I should probably but eh I’m an auric maelstrom main

[lilac schooner]

It's probably fine for auric where elites arent beefy

[low harbor]

Hvs new talents pretty op, kinda taking away some of the spotlight from pickpocket

Pickpocket still giga op tho

Far too lenient of a nerf

[mighty belfry]

Agreed.

[low harbor]

1.11’s balance update overall shows too much restraint

[mighty belfry]

I think it also needs to take into consideration that melee can still abuse it a lot.

With needle pistol. Which arguably was one of the main issues with the talent.

[cunning creek]

I mean what, just go in melee for 2 seconds if you run out of ammo? “OH MY GOD MY BUILD IS NERFED!” Like cmon man, no

[lilac schooner]

Their new strat is they just minorly nerf the same thing every patch like shout

[mighty belfry]

It technically is a nerf to be fair.

[low harbor]

I don’t think VoC needs more nerf from this point on tbh

[mighty belfry]

It does mean you have to interact with melee every now and then,.

But to be fair.

[stray mulch]

yeah the ppl who act like this are weird

[cunning creek]

And I think that’s not a bad thing

[mighty belfry]

You already usually would have to do that before the pickpocket nerf anyway.

[low harbor]

It’s pretty much exactly at where I pitched to playtester months ago

[cunning creek]

Before you wouldn’t use melee technically

[low harbor]

I wanted VoC to be 40s CD and vet CDR at best cut it down to 20s

[stray mulch]

as a vet main i think if it went to 50s i still wouldnt complain

[mighty belfry]

It's a nerf but it's arguably miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

[low harbor]

Nah 40s is just right to me

[stray mulch]

40s is a good spot

[mighty belfry]

Actually, I think shout shouldn't have been nerfed the way it was

[lilac schooner]

as a vet main I swapped to hs 😂

[low harbor]

It has downtime but not such a tremendous down time to feel like u need to hold onto it

[verbal dew]

what is bubble again?

[stray mulch]

initially some of us thoght the nerf would be heavier

[lilac schooner]

you get discount shout on hs thats better

[stray mulch]

legit though it would go to 1min

[mighty belfry]

Golden toughness, should have been nerfed instead.

Not the base ability

[low harbor]

Don’t think they’ll be changing that

It is what it is

[mighty belfry]

Yeah but it's annoying. They're doing that because they know they opened Pandora's Box putting gold in the game

[stray mulch]

the zealot skill would be ass if golden toughness got nerfed

[mighty belfry]

It's not the base shout that's the issue.

[low harbor]

I want vet middle & bottom left improved and some talents swapped around

[mighty belfry]

It's the gold.

So give the CD debuff to Duty and Honor instead.

And just keep the base shout at 30s

Because then, people actually have incentive not to run gold.

[low harbor]

And proper buffs to infantry lasgun & falchion

[verbal dew]

well they did nerf gold duration once

shout doesn't help allies without gold right?

[stray mulch]

would be unfair because zealot could still apply it

[low harbor]

We’re only 10 buffs away from falchion being good

[stray mulch]

untouched

[lilac schooner]

Even if they nerf shout because of gold, chorus is better anyways for gold application

[mighty belfry]

The CD nerf already exists.

I'm saying it should just only affect the subnode that gives golden toughness, not the base ability.

[dense hollow]

honestly thats not really a bad idea

[mighty belfry]

If they really wanna reel golden toughness in

[dense hollow]

just slapping the cd nerf on the golden toughness part instead of the base ability

[mighty belfry]

Because that's the whole reason they're nerfing shout over and over again.

[dense hollow]

the entirety of shout gets nuked because of gold subnode

[lilac schooner]

they'll probably do that next patch they've nerfed shout like every major patch recently its a pattern atp

[stray mulch]

i think asking for golden toughness nerfs isn't good

[mighty belfry]

No it is.

[stray mulch]

would rather them implement more difficulty to combat it

[dense hollow]

golden toughness is a band aid that should be ripped off

more difficulty to combat it means you cant run anything but gold

[mighty belfry]

I don't like that gold is in the game because it's a contributor to why the game's difficulty has become what it is right now.

[spice cloud]

Its not tho

[low harbor]

I think the best way to nerf VoC is actually to make marksman & CQKZ refresh alongside exe stance

[stray mulch]

all ppl asking for gold toughness removal are just looking for more difficulty. I think adding more meaningful difficulty is better than removing gold toughness

or even new interactions with gold toghness

but nerfing it directly im not sure i agree with

[lilac schooner]

give exe stance melee damage 🙂

[low harbor]

Don’t think there’ll be vet changes for at least another 6 months tho

[low harbor]

If marksman & CQKZ refreshed alongside stance then you basically have that

[mighty belfry]

Actually, this isn't really as simply put as you think.

The issue with golden toughness is that the game is balanced in mind with it existing. And because it is, it's also part of why the game's difficulty has progressed to the elite/specialist spam bonanza we have now.

[dense hollow]

gonna be 5 years before falchion becomes good

[mighty belfry]

Because golden toughness is such a fundamentally gamebreaking thing to have.

People don't want golden nerfs because they want the game to solely be harder.

[lilac schooner]

bubble shield is a big contributor too

[low harbor]

I haven’t played VoC in like

5 months?

[mighty belfry]

A lot of complaints about this game's balance is more about how player power is so ridiculously inflated that mobs have to be adjusted to accomodate those levels.

[lilac schooner]

yeah i told you exe stance was better

[mighty belfry]

Golden toughness is by far one of the worst culprits and has been for a while.

[compact oyster]

Hear me out

Let vet extend infiltrate by 1 second on elite kill

[lost ravine]

chorus is currently a way worse voc so that's fair

[compact oyster]

But make it lock out a 2nd infiltrate charge

[mighty belfry]

I uh.

[lilac schooner]

chorus is better more consistent cdr

[mighty belfry]

I don't think I can fully agree on that one

For as much as I don't like Chorus

It is pretty strong for what its meant to do.

Thing is, it's just boring.

Because you're basically not really playing the game for a few seconds when you use it.

[lavish bronze]

Chorus is my go to zealot build

[mighty belfry]

But the space and safety it grants is undeniable.

[low harbor]

No

[lost ravine]

voc doesn't really share a slot with high damage options like chorus does and is instant as opposed to channeled

and shorter cd

[low harbor]

They just buffed plasma

[lavish bronze]

With marty flame grenade caxe and revolver

[low harbor]

“Fixed an issue where the Plasma Gun primary fire base Cleave was lower than intended.
The effective Cleave value should be slightly above 18.”

[lilac schooner]

me when shout is 40 seconds now

[lavish bronze]

Not enough

Should be 80

[lost ravine]

and chorus is 60s so what gives

[lavish bronze]

Like pbb

[mighty belfry]

chorus' CD can be cut down more consistently in practice tbf

Because Vet's CDR is honestly

Kinda ass

[lilac schooner]

and lasts like 5 seconds and gives a huge damage boost to team or tdr I guess

[mighty belfry]

So now that Shout is 40s baseline

[lilac schooner]

18 to 18.1 yay

[low harbor]

No actually

[mighty belfry]

While chorus will take a lil longer to come back

[low harbor]

9.45 -> >18

[mighty belfry]

It's not as big of a discrepancy as it used to be

[prime cape]

awwww yis, witness me running around and quail in fear heretic! xD

[lilac schooner]

oh wow, I didn't even notice and I was playing vet h40

[low harbor]

Plasma gets almost double the cleave from this hotfix

[mighty belfry]

anyway, it is bed time for me

idk why i'm up so late

[ashen osprey]

Sleep is for the weak

[lost ravine]

up so late that it's early
good morning

[ashen osprey]

(I haven’t gotten more than 4 hours of sleep in 4 days help)

[mighty belfry]

good morning 🫡

[prime cape]

also the unique tox poison removes their hitmass, so it's a DoT plus...Shock&Awe+ Uncanny (in a weird fucked up way xD)

[torpid cloud]

Fair but it's very fast to run with so I like it

[zenith pagoda]

Lmao they still haven't fixed frame gen

And it shouldn't have even been touched to begin with

[mellow rune]

What happen to frame gen

[cunning creek]

No sleep for you, your job is to play obesefish game

[stray mulch]

the elite/specialist spam is there not because of gold toughness. Plasgunners being added were. The special/elite spam is soleley due to the efficiency at which people can clear them in base game. This is why they increase the spawn rates and total that can be on map with modifiers as well as their health pools to take into account the difficulty modifiers that will help them pose a bigger threat in content intended to be more difficult

[dusk mirage]

damage sponge enemies are not difficulty though

its lazy af

i remember DOW2 hardest difficulty wasn't difficult, it just added zeroes to every enemy's hp bar and it turned the game into a slog

[stray mulch]

and this is why i think they should find better ways to implement difficulty, not just increase enemey numbers and hp, or nerfing 1 game mechanic

more ranged and melee elite enemies makes sense, and more specialists would a make sense before more nerfs do

[dusk mirage]

I really wish they would rebalance damage numbers and armor values

[stray mulch]

bout time we ran into more daemons of nurgle

[dusk mirage]

I don't like carapace being 'canon' levels of defense

which is also extremely overblown

[reef spoke]

At the very least let me wear carapace

[dusk mirage]

in practice carapace enemies should be taking on average 50% damage from most weapons

[dusk mirage]

fr

[stray mulch]

tbh

if you wore carapace and got hit by a cannon you would still die

[dusk mirage]

its okay to make an enemy a damage sponge if shooting them feels good and they don't drain all your ammo

[stray mulch]

i dont think this game cares for logistics like that though XD

i feel like there would be space for less enemies and tanky enemies that feel good to play against with a bigger roster

like we have no psyker enemies still

no nurglings

PLAGUE TOADS?

pretty sure those 2 daemons are in wh40k and not just fantasy

nurglings accompanying a psyker would make sense

or even being summoned because of them

[crimson moss]

honestly yeah I’m surprised there’s no fodder daemons yet

[amber sapphire]

hyper critical still only works on melee? Or it was fixed for ranged already?

[bronze crown]

I have been running the Desperado Vrakas Infantry Autogun but now that melee is even more OP has anyone made a Havoc viable build for the Tactical Axe?

[spice cloud]

Afaik it is fixed

[tranquil fjord]

hypercrit works on ranged?

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah the description never said melee only

You should pretty much always take it for ranged builds

[jovial heron]

Don’t think it works on range

[stray mulch]

it only considers melee crits

[jovial heron]

🎵 That’s what I said🎵

[stray mulch]

sorry i didnt mean to reply

just type

[amber sapphire]

bruh, they really need to specify this in game, because node sits in the "ranged" tree part, but it's useless on ranged weapons

[jovial heron]

Eh I mean the mixing of melee and ranged talents is so that there isn’t a pathing tax for making hybrid builds. But yes better tooltips are needed

[amber sapphire]

Yeah, i get that. But a casual blueberry won't really dig deep and think: oh, it doesn't say melee, so works on everything!

[icy scaffold]

The wording clarifies it if you know what weird clarification they use. Strikes means melee, while hits means both or something. Obesefish strikes again.

[jovial heron]

I mean I still learn new things about the game. For instant crits in this game operate on a pseudorandom system. So as you fail to get crits there is a ramping increasing chance until you finally get one

[amber sapphire]

Tbh, you are right, if it was everything they would probably write - critical HITS

[icy scaffold]

Still, I doubt it’d kill them to write slightly longer tooltips that specify these things

[lost ravine]

yet for example weapon perks say "ranged critical strike chance"

fatshark and misleading descriptions, name a more iconic duo

[mighty belfry]

It's a contribution to why the power creep got as bad as it has. Not the sole reason. Plasma gunners barely even exist as it currently stands right now anyway and at their current state, they're pushovers, so if they were supposed to be the balancing factor for gold, that was arguably a failure on their part.

[jovial heron]

Hah first release plasma gunners though. Now that’s a deterrent

[mighty belfry]

When they were first released, they were terrifying. And a tad overtuned.

Now?

Complete pushovers.

They overcorrected on them imho

[limber cradle]

I think they should've waited another week on the plasma nerf

Ik I'm in the minority here but I did not mind them on release

[mighty belfry]

I think the sound cues could have been better and them shooting through walls

Was kinda bonkers

But yeah I would have rather they kept them as actual threats than whatever they are right now.

And to clarify, if you have a game mechanic designed to directly counter many means of dealing direct damage to you

[jovial heron]

Looking into the fog to see a dozen pairs of glowing eyes and hear the deafening hum of plasma charges

[mighty belfry]

Naturally, the game has to be built around being more dangerous with that in mind.

[jovial heron]

Yeah the sound cue was off from the actual projectile and shooting through walls sucked

[limber cradle]

They should defo up their spawn rates ime

[jovial heron]

This right here

[limber cradle]

Like they're weak enough now to where they can be spawned like shotgunners

[jovial heron]

If they aren’t gonna make them dangerous they should take from shotguns and gunners and add to plasma spawns

[unreal stirrup]

plasma gunner exist for my pickpocket proc

[mighty belfry]

Nah, rain of crushers instead 🕶️

[jovial heron]

Wait isn’t it already plague armor time?

[limber cradle]

Didn't fuckin rot armor rotate back into havoc?

[mighty belfry]

Yes

It is pure ass with the new spawn mechanics

[limber cradle]

Just make it permanent at this fuckin point

Like

We get a commercial break of it for a week

That I work all of every havoc rotation

[mighty belfry]

I really don't think they considered how the spawn change would affect rot honestly

[jovial heron]

What no way….THIS studio???? Can’t be

[limber cradle]

I don't think they understand how much like, 99.8 percent of the community hates rot armor nor the fact that they reinforce a god awful meta with it

[mighty belfry]

There was a point where it wouldn't stop for a full over 10 minutes

And I had to clutch

And I actually started shouting for the first time in a long time in this game lmao

[dense hollow]

how the ai director feels like right now

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/punisher-no-no-no-tanklorde-gif-13191678230910881285

[mighty belfry]

Doesn't help that a specialist strike team was spawning at the same time

Every angle was just rot or myriads of specialists trying to pressure me until I finally got trapped through a wall of ragers

When a wall of crushers was to my right

It was actually non stop

I have never seen spawns like that before.

[limber cradle]

I'm sure you dropped absolutely zero frames during all of this as well

[mighty belfry]

Several.

[jovial heron]

Netters and their infinite cleave are the bane of my existence.

I am this close to getting the mod that warns of direction of trapper

[unreal stirrup]

I just use this

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/702

disable everything but trapper net

[muted heath]

and why doesn't hive scum have dual power hatchets?

is it just too cool for fatshark?

[low harbor]

It’s too cool for hive scum

[jovial heron]

Path would have a stroke if they gave dual combat axes to scum

[low harbor]

No

[lost ravine]

power shivs when

[crimson moss]

our bad

[jovial heron]

Like….Paul special?

[lost ravine]

idk i was just saying words

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/elf-non-sense-cat-nonsense-meme-anime-gif-25776994

[lost ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/elf-nonsense-elf-frieren-frieren-beyond-journey's-end-sousou-no-frieren-gif-2308403050531304831

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/elf-anime-elf-elf-nonsense-anime-elf-cute-smirk-anime-gif-5885586530081282264

[stray mulch]

they are how they are now because when added they were bugged, and after that they were tuned down.

they should be reverted to how they were in the old event low key

ppl like Mister E were complaning about their existence in havoc too

[bronze glade]

what

plasma gunners were literally completely broken before they fixed/nerfed it

they're prob too easy now

but what they had before was also stupidly fucking overpowered

[stray mulch]

me thikns we could have divesed way to play around them as people were back then

maybe not i direct revert is what i want

but they legit shoudln't have been nerfed how they were

now we got ppl saying gold toughness needs to be hit again

[vapid jungle]

The needed a better indicator and longer wind up

The damage nerf might have been too much but eh

[topaz adder]

knife ears are strictly prohibited in scum chat

[lost ravine]

you're telling me the high mobility high damage class channel is not open to elves, who generally specialize in high mobility and high damage

[topaz adder]

yes

the only thing i hate more than trees are elves

[main trellis]

Wrong game

[muted heath]

And who is path?

[low harbor]

Me

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/sml-junior-there-he-is-officer-there-he-is-supermariologan-gif-22800387

[muted heath]

Hive scum dual power hatchets

Path does that break your brain?

[jovial heron]

Lmao power hatchets

[quartz ether]

hey guys every time i try to use stim supply my game crash, i already verified the game files, anyone knows a fix?

[astral canyon]

power hats

[muted heath]

Power top hat?

[low harbor]

No

[winged bay]

remove animation events and optionally also get the scoreboard bug fix from the mod discord

[mighty belfry]

Kinda wish I could just upload the fix here lol

[mighty belfry]

Oh I'm aware. My thing is they way overcorrected

To where they just aren't really much of a threat at all

And there's a good chance you won't run into them at all

It's either Fatshark takes half measures with balancing or they go way beyond what they really need to most of the time

[mighty belfry]

They were stinky flak ragers though.

Not dregs.

Sincd

You don't really run into dregs in rot

[astral canyon]

sincd

[mighty belfry]

Silence!!!

[astral canyon]

:3

[mighty belfry]

I will leave that spelling mistake just to spite you and myself.

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/tewi-fumo-pat-touhou-tewi-touhou-pat-gif-13988305244866101821

[mighty belfry]

Why do I want baby cut carrots now

[astral canyon]

because youre Tewi Inaba from hit game Touhou 8 imperishable night

[mighty belfry]

I can admit I am not immune to propaganda sometimes.

Honestly it goes back to when I was in school

The only things i cared about in lunch those days

Were carrots

And mozzarella sticks

I would eat nothing else.

...the more I reminisce about the stuff I'd do in school, the more I realize I've probably been showing symptoms that I'm on the spectrum for quite a while now

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[unreal stirrup]

use powerdi tbh

also more performance

disable autosave

plus it doesn't hella inflate your damage

[jovial heron]

Does power DI runs better than scoreboard?

[zenith fern]

It is more heavy in perfomance

[bronze glade]

They’re not really comparable

Scoreboard is best for a quick glance in the middle of a match

The other one is better for an AAR

[jovial heron]

AAR?

[bronze glade]

After action report

[zenith fern]

isnt there an option to disable scoreboard during match until post game screen?

[bronze glade]

No idea but not sure why I’d ever want to do that

[unreal stirrup]

disable auto save

[unreal stirrup]

we egomaxxing

[manic wolf]

Power went out when I was tryina reply to this. I keep forgetting that they put in the second MK, will give that a go later this evening

[manic wolf]

Yes

[mighty belfry]

Because having it pop up on tab is distracting as fuck

I'd rather just see my results after the game

[zenith fern]

which one is it?

[mighty belfry]

I remember when I was a wee lass and I actually watched Tanner (Emperor forgive me for my transgression) and he'd pop that shit up a lot in games

[zenith fern]

I dont think i have looked much inside of the mod options

[zenith fern]

he did so many times in the first H40 run lmao

While playing with a full squad of friends

[mighty belfry]

It was so annoying dude.

[zenith fern]

Brother you need to compete with your friends

[mighty belfry]

Focus on the fucking game for crying out loud.

[bronze glade]

It’s important to see the fucker that double dipped the ammo

[manic wolf]

Not sure, but its one of the base-scoreboard options, not part of OP's

[mighty belfry]

It's okay for me because I actually conserve my ammo

[manic wolf]

It was me

[mighty belfry]

I remember someone actually blaming me for taking ammo and I had to tell them I've only taken one bag

At the end

I see

[jovial heron]

Well let’s see about that! tabs scoreboard 1000000times

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/pregnant-man-react-dont-dm-me-were-done-discord-react-dont-pregnant-man-react-me-gif-15172637796834483807

[mighty belfry]

They took pretty much 90% of the pickups lol

[zenith fern]

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/aeth-aether-aethers-aethernet-dont-dm-me-gif-13191245155866573727

[low harbor]

It is

Top 3 hvs melee
Rashad
Tac axe VII
Knife

Prob

Knife might pull ahead over tac axe

[mighty belfry]

Considering knife's insane finesse curve, not surprising honestly.

[low harbor]

It’s not at Rashad level but it has way better mobility to compensate

[mighty belfry]

Also I just wanna say

[manic wolf]

TacAxe/Knife are kinda the same tier tbh

[mighty belfry]

I really have been enjoying heavy sword lately

It might not be the best against carapace still but it's perfectly serviceable while just nuking and staggering everything else

Arguably a good reason to run cheap shots even

Oh and it does stagger crushers

[torpid cloud]

I do need a weapon to spam heavy attacks with actually
I somehow made almost no progress on the penance that needs me to kill x amount of enemies with a heavy attack on scum

[mighty belfry]

Well there you go then.

That or rashad

But rashad is painfully boring

[torpid cloud]

I mean oyu could call light spam taxe boring

Cause there's like zero variation in my gameplan

[zenith fern]

rashad

Or maybe just knife push attack

[mighty belfry]

That's why the push attack heavy chain exists 🤓 ☝️

[torpid cloud]

But why do that if just spamming left click does the job

[mighty belfry]

Because it's fun.

Also admittedly, push attack gives some space so it's good to control the horde a little better

[manic wolf]

Yous don't throw random bullshit out there with the TacAxe if you don't feel your HV procs are big enough?

Be a lot cooler if you did

[mighty belfry]

I go back and forth between light spam and push attack heavy a lot

I tend to switch over when I know the hordes getting a little too wally around me

[zenith fern]

Being grabbed by a CSpawn while gunners still shooting has to be the most bs the game can do

[mighty belfry]

I hate it so much.

[cerulean crane]

Getting grabbed by most things is just instant death ngl

[zenith fern]

Only when in the middle of fire and gunners

[cerulean crane]

Cspawn easy to dodge anyway, just stay 90 feet away and let your teammates kill it 😻

(real)

[zenith fern]

Or let the teammates be near the CSpawn to throw you away

[low harbor]

Tac axe

[cerulean crane]

Do shivs not have okay heavy? Or are we trying to cleave.

[mighty belfry]

Depends on the mk

[zenith fern]

mk3 has the better cleave on heavies

[brittle sierra]

Me with a tide pod 😈

[paper bay]

whgats the best blessings to run on Crowbar 🤔

i saw some people use Superiority + Unstoppable Force, but i never full-charge attacks who has time for that

so im thinking maybe Superiority + Take A Swing or Limbsplitter 🤔

All or Nothing wouldve been insane if only i wasnt using 2 stamina curios for the attack speed 🤔

[north saddle]

Managed to kill a sniper from 77mtrs with a vraksian mk V IA

[jovial heron]

No it’s being grabbed by mutie and thrown to another mutie midair all while you are on fire

[zenith fern]

pov: you are the tennis ball

[jovial heron]

Hacky sack because you are surrounded by blazes

[topaz adder]

pov scumgang supreme

[mighty belfry]

I run superiority + opportunist personally

[paper bay]

yeah Opportunist is a good option too i guess

basically anything other than Unstoppable Force

[river skiff]

Mk3 is essentially single target strike

And it's amazing btw

[bronze glade]

Mk3 is the horde focused mark 🤔

[zenith fern]

That's MK1 for heavies

[river skiff]

Sorry

My bad

Don't remember the numbers anymore

[zenith fern]

[manic wolf]

Darktide in one picture

[pale trench]

I use the +damage to staggered enemies (it deals decent stagger so I feel like it's always up) and the one that gives crit chance on push. The follow-up attack sweeps and combos well, I just wish either the buff lasted longer or was more potent to compete with Shred

Fucking love the crowbar

[bronze glade]

The least shit blessing options are opportunist and superiority

[livid raven]

this says a lot about our crowbar society

[paper bay]

im just leveling up all the crap weapons that i probably dont plan to use ;d

[flat field]

Generally speaking would a lower cool down weaker stim or high cool down stronger stim be more useful for MOSTLY melee scum

[limber cradle]

Either or works

[flat field]

Playing mostly in auric and damnation difficulty havoc still whips me regularly

[limber cradle]

If you want a fat stimm run sample collector

[flat field]

Honestly I just need to remember to actually use my fuckin stim I mostly run the melee ability and like maybe pop it once or twice a mission so I figure stim supply could be a fun change

[limber cradle]

Unsure, I run rampage and chem dep with a fat stimm

Don't like crate

[reef spoke]

Use Rampage then when on cooldown pop stim

It's easy to remember to use it if you do that

[brittle sierra]

If you have sampler collector and play high difficulty content, the cooldown starts to not matter anymore 💀

[reef spoke]

Indeed, my desperado build has a 75 sec cooldown and it gets like maybe 5 sec? Of no buff

[mighty belfry]

Especially if youy have chem nades or pocket blackouts

You can sometimes just nearly instantly get your stimm back

[stray mulch]

how about getting tag teamed?

died immediately

[reef spoke]

Being hit, truly a rookie mistake 😔

[unreal stirrup]

psyker

well deserved

[stray mulch]

aye

I'm an EK user

i think i get a pass man

[bronze glade]

Nope

[jovial heron]

Lmao I forgot about that clip

[stray mulch]

made me realize that i'm not worth much as a psyker player, because the load out i like has 0 mobility and i don't know how to dodge mutants

pretty sure i only get grabbed by mutants when playing that class

[mighty belfry]

You could run a higher mobility weapon

[jovial heron]

Nah just means you need more practice. Ironically I have more problems dodging muties and nets as scum than I do psyker

[mighty belfry]

Or anticipation

[stray mulch]

i think im just too stubborn

but this was before i started using stuff like the illisi

[jovial heron]

Also if you are doing EK just cast RMB at least twice to stagger mutie

[stray mulch]

or anything with actual mobility

[jovial heron]

Low charge quick casts

[stray mulch]

i dont think you remember my fascination with lmb EK

i forget what happened before i got grabbed in that clip but i low key think i got hit by a pox burster before getting grabbed

sometimes i try to rmb the bursters and they just pop before tumbling

[jovial heron]

Nah I get it I have drifted back to surge surge

[mighty belfry]

Surge surge is the only thing that has ever gotten me kicked out of a game

[zenith fern]

That Plogryn had a beef with the player lmao

[mighty belfry]

Because they thought I was cheatin

[zenith fern]

Was that you? Lmao

[jovial heron]

What the fuck

[mighty belfry]

I'm dead serious

It was just an auric and I was trying it out after hearing about it

And honestly.

[stray mulch]

that was ME!

[mighty belfry]

I could not blame them

Surge Surge with Scriers at least for auric

Like I actually don't even think that should be a thing because it's so oppressively strong lmao

[stray mulch]

the quelling tech that doubles your dps?

[mighty belfry]

Nope.

Straight up just m1 spam

[stray mulch]

no way

ooof

ive been kicked for using EK but i never learned how to do the quell trick

i think just the fact that it was possible -- people didnt like

[mighty belfry]

Again it really is no hard feeling to those players

[lilac schooner]

most were just macroing it tbf

[jovial heron]

That’s fucking wild

Was it back when quell canceled worked?

[mighty belfry]

Because even I thought to myself, "yeah they weren't having fun"

Crazy thing is you didn't even have to macro it for it to just annihilate everything

[stray mulch]

i feel that

actually had an ogryn leave like 10 mins ago

they couldnt get any kills

EK Scriers is actually not okay for auric imo

[jovial heron]

I was accused of it once when quell cancel worked

[stray mulch]

or any M1 build you can use with scriers and surge

[mighty belfry]

It's especially worse for EK cuz of the innate crit though

[lilac schooner]

not like it matters you could run wallhacks and aimbot and you cant get banned

[stray mulch]

like abuseable because of the base crit?

to this day i still don't know the base crit tbh

tool tip says 21%, i think that's a lie

[mighty belfry]

I think it does add around 20% at max crit bonus

Combine that with psykers crit chance, scrier's crit bonus and the 5% from surge itself, and Warp nexus

And you're actually nearing 100% crit

Not at it

[stray mulch]

oh yeah... i forgot the 2 additional sources XD

[mighty belfry]

But damn close to it

[stray mulch]

78.5% CRIT

oh nah!

[mighty belfry]

Now combine that with Disrupt Destiny

[jovial heron]

High peril warp nexus

[mighty belfry]

Which gigabuffs your crits too, which is extremely easy to get to 25 stacks because of the double tap from surge

[stray mulch]

i use warp siphon, but i might try DD one day

[mighty belfry]

And it just becomes disgusting.

I really don't think that should exist in auric lmao

[stray mulch]

actually wtf is that damage mod on DD XD

so i could randomly kill a dude with a tick of soul flame procing Kinetic Flayer to get a stack?

[mighty belfry]

Yep.

[stray mulch]

wtf

[mighty belfry]

It's lowkey one of the most busted psyker builds

Even in havoc. The only true contention you deal with is carapace

[jovial heron]

Not as flashy as inferno though

[mighty belfry]

But everything else

[stray mulch]

i think carapace would be a non factor for me

the damage i do to them is already nasty

[mighty belfry]

Is just dying under the right circumstances

[stray mulch]

i think DD would actually make carapace negligible

[mighty belfry]

It kinda does honestly

[stray mulch]

right because its a target rich environment

do the stacks fall off 1 at a time?

or all at once?

[mighty belfry]

One at a time

[stray mulch]

bruh

[mighty belfry]

And they stay if you're attacking a boss

Nowadays

[jovial heron]

Huh really?

I hadn’t heard that one

[stray mulch]

i think if you have soulflame killing specials/elites with kinetic flayer it's possible

imma go try it lmao

[jovial heron]

Yeah I don’t typically take BB KF with a surge surge build

But I imagine it probably doesn’t hurt

[stray mulch]

It's not the worst. I have a weird build

[lilac schooner]

against infinite cleave and melting carapace nah

[mighty belfry]

More recent buff

[stray mulch]

i wont post anymore psyker stuff to not disrupt the Scum chat

[mighty belfry]

Dude every class chat goes off topic

Scum is basically ghetto psyker anyway

[jovial heron]

Ah yes channeled force

Meh

[stray mulch]

like i said

Weird. I take channeled force specifically for Crushers and Monsters

[lilac schooner]

melee scum is just zealot/melee vet

[jovial heron]

Which patch note so I can check it? I must have missed it

[mighty belfry]

Nah it's meleeker

Hell Rampage is basically Scrier's but it doesn't count down while active.

[novel oracle]

Should've been in the nightmares and visions update

But yeah thats a thing now

[jovial heron]

Thanks

[lilac schooner]

when I think I meleeker its greatsword which is its own thing

[mighty belfry]

Esp now with Splash Damage, the parallel to psyker is even stronger now

You can do meleeker without gs tbh

That just happens to be the best weapon to do it with.

[novel oracle]

Taxe psyker still pillages

Same with force swords

[mighty belfry]

But knife meleeker

Is a drug.

[stray mulch]

I wish I would or could take or make more use of that talent, but I'm locked in on the bonesaw. They either die before they get in melee range, or die to the DoT because I didn't do enough damage on the last hit I would need

[compact oyster]

200 more buffs to psyker

[lilac schooner]

i actually dont path to splash it doesnt seem worth it unless your grabbing a bunch of tox nodes

[stray mulch]

even then it's kind of not worth

but

for melee rampage it is imo

at least for toxin mania

[mighty belfry]

It helps a lot with coated ime

[lilac schooner]

specifically for melee rampage build I dont grab it

[novel oracle]

The biggest reason is it instantly gives 10% toughness per second in density

[stray mulch]

splash damage + toxin mania is worth the 15% base damage imo if you are on rampge

[novel oracle]

With that node

[mighty belfry]

And Virulent Strain

[stray mulch]

yup

[mighty belfry]

Virulent Strain is lowkey really good actually

I'm surprised I don't see it more

[stray mulch]

i use it on every build

even on shivs

[lilac schooner]

I feel likes all those tox nodes are too much points you cant really grab the actual melee nodes if you go for them

[novel oracle]

Plus the total damage it deals by itself roughly matches perilous soulblaze on melee psyker by itself
Increasing your total damage output by 10%

[stray mulch]

whenever im on rampage im on dependency anyway so its just a take since it's right there

[mighty belfry]

Thing is, if you've picked so much synergy with toxin already, you don't really need all of the melee nodes to do great damage.

Plus. Those nodes specifically benefit pocket blackouts a lot

[lilac schooner]

rpg gang

[mighty belfry]

Rpg got boring to me

I used to use it all the time

[novel oracle]

Scum in its entirety got boring to me

[lilac schooner]

It probably gets way more value than blackouts

[novel oracle]

My scum is lile lvl 52 or something

[mighty belfry]

They're not regeneratable.

[novel oracle]

Waiter waiter more screenwipes please

[mighty belfry]

That alone makes blackouts a good contender

And it's way more cohesive with melee scum imho

[lilac schooner]

I feel like blackouts regen too slow rven on havoc

[mighty belfry]

Do you use hypercrit?

[lilac schooner]

I rather just ration my rockets

[stray mulch]

you mos def can, I could take it here if i gave up bellows

[lilac schooner]

no just hv

[mighty belfry]

W-

How the fuck is the regen too slow?

[lilac schooner]

bellows good 😢

[stray mulch]

yeah but it isnt neccessary, I just have it because i have no other defense with this set up

[mighty belfry]

One horde gives you all of them back usually.

At least in higher tiers.

[lilac schooner]

Idk either it's not counting poxwalkers/groaners or 20 is a lot more than I think

[mighty belfry]

And especially now with the spawns being tweaked to high noon

[stray mulch]

if you kill enemies with DoT, Hypercrit or out of range, you will not get a stack

the DoT from needle pistol is an exception, and only the DoT from the shot itself

[lilac schooner]

I run bolt pistol/shivs so none of thosr apply pretty much

[mighty belfry]

Which is weird. Because if you don't invest at all in toxin that much

Then there should be no interference with your regen.

[stray mulch]

^

if you are running coated weapon that can cause you to miss kills too because of the DoT

[lilac schooner]

Idk maybe I'm comparing it to vet regen in havoc, but I feel like that 5% chance on elite just regens the grenades faster

[stray mulch]

same for splash damage

[mighty belfry]

Well duh.

[stray mulch]

the generation is heavily gated on what you are using

i get more nades than a vet

[mighty belfry]

You have to pace yourself with blackouts

[stray mulch]

but im using the needle pistol

10 needle pistol shots = 1 nade

in a horde*

[mighty belfry]

Because the regen is entirely connected to your kills. Not a timed duration and kills

[stray mulch]

*iirc you need a minimum of +8% str from the stimm for that though

[mighty belfry]

But, the way blackouts regen works. A h40 horde very often just gives me back my full count before I even realize it happens sometimes

[stray mulch]

^

like its not the always a full 5 if you spam them like i do

but you shouldnt have trouble holding onto any

can burn them and get them back pretty quick

[compact oyster]

scum will get interresting when the class gets a chainglaive

[stray mulch]

unless you got a psyker melting your screen i guess

[mighty belfry]

Honestly that used to be the case

But whatever they did to the spawns with this update?

There is usually more than enough horde to go around lmao

[stray mulch]

i still struggle to get my kills vs a psyker, it feels like a competition ngl

[mighty belfry]

I was mentioning that I was trying to clutch last night and the hordes were just

[stray mulch]

i usually have to run somewhere else and pull a group XD

[mighty belfry]

Non stop

For a solid 10 minutes

I have never been put in that kind of attrition before the update

It's like the AI director is just like

"Tickets? What are those?"

[stray mulch]

i liek the new ai director

so you know the sewer map

i think clandestine gloriana?

[mighty belfry]

Nah that's the icy map

[stray mulch]

where you fall onto the ledge

[mighty belfry]

You do fall on a ledge in Gloriana

[stray mulch]

oh well it's the one where you talk to the one dude at the start then travel through the pipes to the ledge

yes that one

[mighty belfry]

Yeah it's that one

[stray mulch]

in the area att he start with the guy enemies have been spawning there

[mighty belfry]

Oh yeah the

Spawn bug lmao

[stray mulch]

I loaded up last night and when we got in 2 crushers downed my psyker on the spot

legit had like 30 dudes just chilling right in front of us from the very start

i like it

[mighty belfry]

Me and my team were crying laughing at the start

None of us knew about the bug

We won that too

It was a 34

[stray mulch]

i kinda hope they keep it

but i can understand ppl getting upset on some of those runs

one of the dustbowl maps has a similar thing too

where there are a bunch of enemies spawning on the way to the actual fighting zones

[mighty belfry]

I've been enjoying heavy sword scum a lot ngl

[stray mulch]

commit war crimes

[mighty belfry]

Strong as hell but you really gotta work for it unlike the higher mobility options

I was getting a tad burnt out but then I saw the rework and had to try it

D claw scum also fun

[stray mulch]

i tried to like d calw

i think im doing d claw wrong

i remember you guys talking about the stagger set up and cheapshot

but when i tried it it didnt do as much damage as i thought it would

aside form the counter i guess

[mighty belfry]

You do have to be a little deliberate with it since Skullcrusher is your big damage enabler

[jovial heron]

Courtesy of Hexis

[stray mulch]

all the work of soulflame

change my mind

also ty or the flashbang

room lit up after the 1st kill XD

[jovial heron]

Yeah but first couple deaths are the parry hahaha

[stray mulch]

yup XD

[cerulean crane]

What's the carapace angle with hsword scum

Is there a good ranged for that in scum kit 🐴

[mighty belfry]

Decent but doable because of Channeled Aggression.

[astral canyon]

needler

[mighty belfry]

But my setup is a tad unconventional.

People will be spooked when I say I don't run Headtaker with it

[cerulean crane]

I only just got scum to level 30 does needler kill carapace that quickly?

I haven't done havoc but wouldn't more health slow kill time even more like esp crushers

Or am I using TS wrong

[zenith pagoda]

If dclaw had the same blessings as heavy sword I would use it

[muted pivot]

Just spam 6 needles at a crusher and it will die before it reaches you. It's not super fast, but it's consistent and easy

The needle gun is well loved because it's such a strong free extra source of damage for a melee scum with no extra investment

While being efficient for elites and specials too

[cerulean crane]

Half my shots plink and apply nothing is that just % /perk/blessing issue?

Also when 6 crushers what do

[muted pivot]

Depends on build, but maybe rocket

[lost ravine]

pew pew pew pew pew pew reload

repeat

[bronze glade]

Dodge

Don’t get hit

[lost ravine]

or yell shank repeat

[bronze glade]

Shrimple

[lost ravine]

dance ganger dance

[muted pivot]

Most of our melees are also excellent into carapace

If you aren't using one of those, strongly consider the boom launcher

Strongly consider it anyway, but even moreso if your primary can't kill a Crusher blob easily

[lost ravine]

the shot itself will plink but the poison will kill

[cerulean crane]

Oh they still apply. Weird I could've sworn the enemy wasn't green usually

I don't actually usually have issues fighting the crushers usually, I just beat them to death I was just wondering if there was a better tool when you have hsword. Sounds like needler will take out a few before they're on you which is good enough

[stray mulch]

shoot 2 into each and melee one time with a heavy

[cerulean crane]

Also is there an optimal mk

[stray mulch]

i think for most weapons you will have the damage kill the crushers remaining hp

optimal mk im not sure

[cerulean crane]

I saw the pinned thing and I assume it's just mk6 unless you use special more?

Or for more crowdclear on special idk

[stray mulch]

i use the mk2, but it's because it has good waveclear

[cerulean crane]

I didn't even realize it had a special on my first like 8 runs with the gun, forgot to read

Was just using it to click specials n shit

[stray mulch]

im not sure if the primary fire is the same for both or not

[jovial heron]

Chem grenade and regen stim at the same time

Synergy

[bronze glade]

Mk6 has better primary fire

For weakspot and crits

[stray mulch]

like it applies an extra stack on each in comparison?

[stray mulch]

10% damage on void shield is abysmal

[jovial heron]

Yeah it’s not great

[stray mulch]

primary mostly identical WHERE?!

[jovial heron]

On a body shot without critting

[stray mulch]

Aaa

so i need not change marks

[jovial heron]

Factoring in weakspots and crits is what changes it

I use Mk II only cause of the occasional case with a narrow corridor and dense horde meaning spreading toxin good

[stray mulch]

yeah

don't need a narrow corridor, but dense packs = crazy cooldown for your stim

[jovial heron]

Yep yep don’t need but like. I prefer my needles cleave through at least two pox walker heads

Cause I am efficient like that

[bronze glade]

MkII isn’t typically better if you only use primary fire

Which is a pretty common use case

[jovial heron]

I know that….i posted that information

https://tenor.com/view/winnie-the-pooh-i-cannot-read-gif-10549564367608169258

[bronze glade]

Oh it says Mk II blue

Yeah that makes sense

The Mk 6 blue doesn’t do shit

[jovial heron]

It does baby stagger

It’s kind of cute

Like really small radius baby stagger

[bronze glade]

It just feels cool

Doesn’t really do anything

[jovial heron]

Being cool is actually the most important stat not tracked by scoreboard

[bronze crown]

I was reading lore on ganger weapons. Would a Voss Grenade Launcher make sense for Hive Scum?

[flat mist]

You mentioned reading lore... what does it say about them use grenade launchers?

[bronze crown]

I swear I was just reading the gangers entry on the wiki and it said that ganger elites and leaders may use voss grenade launchers. But now I can't find the link in my history.

[neat delta]

is shock and awe really better than wrath?

[drifting heron]

Yes

[neat delta]

on bone saw to be clear

[drifting heron]

Its multiplicative with +cleave

[neat delta]

ah

[drifting heron]

Doubles the value of all cleave basically

[icy scaffold]

#givescumreconlas

[flat mist]

No

[icy scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-star-wars-do-it-dew-it-meme-gif-4745443509998127535

[subtle yacht]

Is this Tac Axe ok for Hive Scum?

[flat mist]

Yes but id use unyielding over cara

[subtle yacht]

Thanks. So this means the Tac Axe has good damage against Cara? Or are you saying that for boss damage?

[flat mist]

Has bad cara damage, use needle pistol

[subtle yacht]

Oh yeah ! Good call. Thank you.

[runic bough]

Did they kill ranged Hive Scum builds after the pickpocket nerf?

[dense hollow]

kill is a very strong word

id say just a mild slap on the wrist

[verbal dew]

they killed reddit's/steam's version of ranged builds that pretended they were a psyker that doesn't need to use melee because this is now a ranged only game obv

which is always wrong

[zenith fern]

"nerf"

aka melee to kill in a melee game

[novel oracle]

tac axe does not have bad cara damage

guh

[flat mist]

Dude its the armour type its least effective against

And its far less effective than other options

You can choose not to understand what people mean like a redditoid if you want though

[mighty belfry]

But they're not wrong though

Tac axe actually does good damage on crits to carapace

[flat mist]

Not compared to other targets. Not compared to other weapons.

Its fine. Its not good.

[mighty belfry]

If it's pretty much great for everything else, why not try to help it where it lacks?

It's not bad. The ADMs aren't terrible for tac axe on carapace.

[flat mist]

Because they have a needle pistol in their kit.

[mighty belfry]

Okay.

What if they don't wanna use a needle pistol?

[reef spoke]

indeed tac axe is bad and should be buffed

[flat mist]

They do. They have it equipped.

[mighty belfry]

I'd run unarmored on that instead of flak honestly.

[unreal stirrup]

scum doesn't need unarmored for scab bruiser breakpoint

[mighty belfry]

It's not just for the breakpoint

It's for the overkill

[willow vine]

New cosmetics when

[main trellis]

on crits
There it is; it needs to crit/hit a weakspot

Otherwise its mega doo doo

[willow vine]

I'm holding money in my hands

[main trellis]

They have to use rampage for power buffs
Otherwise oof

[willow vine]

It takes one day on blender to make a cosmetic item

[main trellis]

They rather rest

From resting after playing on malice & balancing a game based on that dif

[lilac schooner]

imo it was balanced on havoc, auric and below it was too strong

more so because havoc armor spam countered it completely

[verbal dew]

I mean I wasn't talking about whether it was strong or not

just how dumb the mentality is

[unreal stirrup]

yeah if only scum have way to stack crit + have talent that provide consistent crit

also scum have needle pistol

[main trellis]

Only rotten tbh and even that was easily countered with rockets & str rending and att spd stimm - they melted (crushers i mean)

[lilac schooner]

melt is a strong word, it would take like 3/4-1 mag to kill them with those buffs on havoc it was almost as fast as just pulling out your melee

[main trellis]

2 mags; i know what i saw (no debuffs from others nor dmg from others)

[lilac schooner]

Yeahh 😭

[main trellis]

And not even full cause 1st mag took ~60% of a rotten h40 crushers hp on DAP

So yeah

[lilac schooner]

Even psyker could kill them faster and with infinite cleave, ranged hs really struggled vs armor and had a clear weakness compared to psyker

But, it overperformed in auric so it gets the nerf bat

[unreal stirrup]

outside like crowbar there genuinely no weapon that struggle in auric

💀

[lilac schooner]

if you dont take any anti armor its a struggle

[lilac schooner]

but I think ranged hs could just hog all the damage cause its fast ranged dps so people just got pissed at that too same thing happened to exe stance vet with autopistol

[main trellis]

I mean thats as obvious as strawberies are red

[main trellis]

No; its more the playstyle imo; ppl crave pure range builds and prenerf hs was giving that

[lilac schooner]

The general consensus though is that ranged hs was broken when psyker is right there,

[lilac schooner]

and people say the pickpocket nerf did nothing too, no, it fundamentally changes it from ranged only to ranged melee

[main trellis]

They cope; those are called hybrids

[main trellis]

Those are underdeveloped ones btw

They did not gained color yet; not mature

Or not enough nutrients/disease

• it was a figurative speech; could also say apples are red but we all know there are different species that have different color palletes & taste

[flat mist]

I know im just being evil

[torpid cloud]

I mean it was kinda countered by carprace

[upbeat pendant]

it was just crushers that "countered" ranged hs, even then you could just have a melee weapon specifically for them and bosses, or rpg, while your gun deals with literally everything else

[muted pivot]

Ranged HS really was kinda dumb

At least Rampage eats shit if you mess up a dodge, but ranged gets to just stay out of the danger zone

Good at open areas due to ranged immunity

Good at corridors because our guns are bullet hoses

[upbeat pendant]

yeah, pretty much good everywhere unless its just crusher spam only

[unreal stirrup]

how do you eat shit with rampage

there literally nothing left to kill you

[muted pivot]

Fuck up a dodge and get tagged by a crusher overhead or something

[upbeat pendant]

bonk

[muted pivot]

It's not like you can kill a blob of 8 crushers before any of them even try to swing

[lilac schooner]

which is every havoc game, thats why it felt balanced at havoc but oppressive on auric and below

[muted pivot]

It's still grossly powerful, but at least there is a failure condition

Ranged just doesn't have a failure condition

Or, well, didn't until PP nerf

[upbeat pendant]

nah most games are still filled with ranged enemies, even during crusher waves, theres a bunch of trash that spawn around

then you just kite crushers while shooting everything else

[muted pivot]

And, even being bad at Crushers - we still have the best anti-crusher blitz

And typical Desperado melee weapons tend to be good at carapace too

Just, not as juiced

Like, if you're cornered by 2 of them you're still strongly favoured

[upbeat pendant]

yeah so the only downside of ranged was covered with blitz and shivs/knife

[muted pivot]

Just poking them in the head with shivs

[lilac schooner]

Anyways desperado is dead in the water for havoc, but melee hs is busted af

[muted pivot]

I don't play havoc enough tbh

I'm mostly commenting on Auric level balance myself

I know a lot of us are beyond that and capable of near perfect runs there, but I've still got big holes in my play even after 1500 hours lol

[flat field]

Bro I'm ass I can't even consistently win aurics

[muted pivot]

I think if I put more time into havoc play I'd get better but party finder systems play hell with my social anxiety lol

Aurics are hard man, they only seem easy if you're used to high havoc

[lilac schooner]

basically if you havent won a 40, youre going to have to host

[muted pivot]

I can talk my way into a group on here I'm pretty sure

But just trying to do it flat in the game, yeah

[upbeat pendant]

I mean its still okay, just not as good as it was before and melee got a bunch of nice stuff in the patch which made it way better

[lilac schooner]

oh yeah discord is easier to match with but teams are still about the same quality as party finder 😂

[muted pivot]

But at least it solves some of the anxiety triggers

[lilac schooner]

I thought the new patch made it better than before, or whenever they took out the rampage debuff

[muted pivot]

I feel like I'll get seen as a person rather than a problem here lol

[lilac schooner]

Most people are nice on vc I don't think I've had a bad interaction

[muted pivot]

Even most people in the game are, but there's still more doubt there

This ain't league by a long shot

[upbeat pendant]

tbf i dont think people care that much in h40 cause they wont demote, the only people that will complain are those that are 39 and cant make it to 40 lol

[lilac schooner]

Yeahh with the reset this patch your gonna see a lot of the latter

everyone was reset to 30

well if they were above

[upbeat pendant]

as in desp is still usable in havoc, like its not bad, but rampage builds got a ton better with the new talents

like the only "nerf" to hs was pp and it doesnt affect rampage builds at all since the needler has great ammo economy

[lilac schooner]

I don't really think it's that viable, you basically are going to be forced to fight ragers and maulers in melee with no melee talents or be in situations you cant shoot with no ammo against only long range elites, at best it would be a hybrid ranged build instead of pure for it to work properly

talking about desperado, rampage is like bonkers good though

[upbeat pendant]

ill try a pure ranged desp next time and see how it goes

[lilac schooner]

I don't really see the point either since melee hs is also just very good, it can outdps psykers even

[upbeat pendant]

oh yeah definitely, rampage was already able to do almost equal dps as psyker before the patch and now it definitely can and more consistently together with high boss damage

[lilac schooner]

but results may vary, before that game I played with a melee scum while I was vet and they did less than the psyker

like way less idk what he was doing

[upbeat pendant]

yeah theres the variable of player skill too

[main trellis]

You can play with us
We welcome anybody (so long as they are a team player that is)

[main trellis]

Unlucky

[main trellis]

And you melee anyways

[main trellis]

Nah bro; you shoot them
Aa for long range; even DAP can deal with midrange targets - needs run & gun blessing and sticky hands ez (what you should be running btw outside blaze blessing)

[main trellis]

I have a prototype but won’t touch hs yet; got other classes to sort out

[main trellis]

Average psyker then

[lilac schooner]

thats my gf 😭

[main trellis]

That

[main trellis]

Unfortunate

Almost as much as me sorting out nails by size

(Which i do right now; my fingers get more black)

[muted pivot]

I appreciate it :)

[main trellis]

Today? Later tho obviously cause i will be later at home; in 8h or so should be alright

[muted pivot]

I'm on a course day so I'm busy most of the day, but thanks I'll add you as a friend and maybe another day?

[main trellis]

Sure!

[icy scaffold]

Feel like they should have hit the range immunity instead of pickpocket personally

Like you can range only with Psyker and las vet still.