hivescum-class

[alpine orchid]

Enemies are falling over when I cast the ability but when the ability ends nothing happens

Even standing right between like 5 of them

I really need to get a screen recorder of some kind

Something isn't working right and frankly I have no clue what

[zenith fern]

Does it work in-missions?

[alpine orchid]

It did not when I tested it

Earlier I meant

I remember it working before and I haven't really changed the build I'm using since that point so

I don't know what's up there

I just queued into a game real quick and yeah the second shout isn't working for me even in an actual match

The first shout works just fine

[calm aurora]

I had an encounter with a dog that wasn't pushed by second shout recently

But it worked before, in December iirc.

[potent sentinel]

lag maybe?

[calm aurora]

@novel oracle are you aware of that bug?

[zenith fern]

stealth nerf?

[alpine orchid]

Maybe?

[worn portal]

i thnk bug cause i doubt it was that overpowered

[alpine orchid]

I didn't really use this node before but I'm assuming it activated at the same time the Hive Scum lost all of its stamina when Rampage ended, so... maybe by removing the exhaustion part of Rampage, they somehow took the second shout out with it on accident? 💀

[zenith fern]

now that they made rampage too easy they had to drop a stealth nerf

https://tenor.com/view/sassy-gossip-girl-gossiping-gossip-fluffy-cat-gif-16574850200818093144

[calm aurora]

Ok guys

It's confirmed. There's a bug.

@flat mist stop spreading lies like Vegemite!

[alpine orchid]

I'm just assuming that person's a troll

Either way, unfortunate bug

[worn portal]

how many stamina curios to make talent worth it?

running 2 right now... feel so squishy

[alpine orchid]

Technically the answer to this question is how skilled you are, I'd say it's worth taking in some cases even if you have none for some builds

Realistically I'd say depends on the weapon but I'd say at least 1 curio

[worn portal]

how much stam do you start with?

[alpine orchid]

Depends on the weapon

[worn portal]

oooh

i need an autoclicker with scum

hand cramping from spamming click

[nova valley]

I'd say that 1 curio with stamina is worth it on HS always, even if you don't use the perk. It relies on mobility/sprinting and heavies so much that you can safely take it even for a Desperado build

[alpine orchid]

I agree

[worn portal]

how does stam affect heavies?

[alpine orchid]

I have a stamina perk on my weapon instead at the moment which also works but most builds probably don't want/can't afford to do that

[alpine orchid]

Uh

It shouldn't? Unless I'm misinterpreting what they said

[worn portal]

are shivs better than knife?

[alpine orchid]

IMO they are distinct enough

Shivs feel better at doing damage in general while Knife is a bit faster and more survivable

[worn portal]

cause it has more stagger?

[alpine orchid]

Moreso the speed and stamina management, honestly I haven't paid attention to the stagger of either lol

[worn portal]

i finally started using knife and have been having better luck with it, but i dunno why

[alpine orchid]

What kind of build are you using?

[worn portal]

rmpage with chem dep

maxing crit chance with bleed on crit

[alpine orchid]

That's why

Generally the bleed perks aren't really advisable on either Shivs or Knife for Hive Scum

Better to just go with outright damage blessings

[worn portal]

oh

[alpine orchid]

Though I mean

Bleed isn't bad

Direct damage is just better

[alpine orchid]

I'd suggest something like this. I don't recommend the stamina perk, I'm just using that for my current build specifically. I'd run some sort of extra damage or crit chance instead. You can also 100% drop Riposte for Uncanny Strike if your build already has enough crit chance. I don't advise dropping Precognition.

[worn portal]

i cant see any agreement on dump stat for needle gun, ive heard mobility, stab, and damage

[alpine orchid]

Damage would be my vote

The damage stat only affects the actual needle impact itself and not the toxin it applies, when the toxin is 99% of its damage output

If that 1/2 impact damage matters to you for some reason then dump Stability instead

[calm aurora]

Damage. It doesn't affect dots

[worn portal]

are dual stubs any good?

[verbal dew]

I like em on a crate build

[worn portal]

hmm been looking for an alternate to needle gun for rampage

might try revolver

[obsidian sand]

What am I even meant to do here

[zenith fern]

Lots of jumps and bad position

[vapid jungle]

Needed to jump down or not go that way. Backing yourself into a corner with bulwarks will get you killed

[zenith fern]

You are not using much of your pushes either

You could have used your ability earlier right as the bulwark got himself open after swinging first

[lost ravine]

not to go into a corner

you basically boxed yourself in with no avenue of escape

[zenith fern]

It was a safe space to be inside the room too

Less enemies around you

[lost ravine]

plus, your teammates are all alive, how come you're so alone

[zenith fern]

They were all the way back down

Looks like he rushed ahead

[lost ravine]

well, lesson learned
don't split if you can't take it

[zenith fern]

That's what gets you dead

[lost ravine]

remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer

[zenith fern]

Scum is fun and all but one little mistake as him leaves you with bad overcomes

There was the horde music playing so the team was likely fighting a horde and just left them on previous rooms

[obsidian sand]

They were following me for a while, then they weren't

[zenith fern]

And you still chose to run ahead

Leaving you vulnerable and overconfident

[manic wolf]

First off, unbind your dodge key from your jump key for the love of god, and two, you got far too far forward without any blitz options to pull you out the shit when you have no means of CC, also there is an element of map knowledge, had you killed the shotgunners and jumped straight off the ledge behind them rather than engaging the mob chasing you, you would have jumped down to where your teammates were and the enemies would mostly path around/through doors and jumped off, putting you in a better position with support

Even with the prior problem of having dodge and jump bound to the same key and being out of position, that was still very survivable

[lost ravine]

having dodge and jump on the same button is ok

but to each their own

[worn portal]

what is the purpose of the knife punch

[lost ravine]

loops into a shank light that has heavy properties

also, stagger

[manic wolf]

Eh, its very liable to get you killed imo

[lost ravine]

that said you can do fine never touching it

[lost ravine]

just don't hold w when trying to dodge

easy

[manic wolf]

Its also funny to punch a lone enemy to death

[worn portal]

huh

[obsidian sand]

What do you suggest I bind my dodge key to

[worn portal]

the punch super light is interesting

[zenith fern]

As someone been playing since I got the game on same keybinds is when you don't spam spacebar too much when during dodges

[manic wolf]

I have L-Alt bound to jump/vault and space bound to dodge personally, i recommend that because you're not screwing with your muscle memory all that much

[zenith fern]

You gotta get your time right

But jump in this game is a rare occasion

And you only gonna be using for vault

[obsidian sand]

I'll probably bind dodge to L-Alt because whenever I bind jump to anything other than space it really messes me up

[zenith fern]

If they removed jump but kept vault, I think it would not make any difference

[manic wolf]

Thats fair, just makes things much less convoluted having them seperate

Though because of this change in DT, ive ended up having L-Alt as jump on every game I play now

[manic wolf]

It would, you wouldnt be able to B-hop through barrel fire if they took it out

[obsidian sand]

Oh my gosh I forgot I had Steelseries Moments and it just took a bunch of clips

[astral canyon]

End of rolling steel

[lost ravine]

end of your kneecaps now

[astral canyon]

Honestly quite incredible

[calm aurora]

Every kiting moment is powered by jumptech

[main trellis]

You are not helping me in ‚return to DD’ situation

[lost ravine]

how quickly the tide turns

DAZED
REELING
ABOUT TO BREAK

now comes the true test
hold fast, or expire?

[main trellis]

There is a TF2 crit sound for DD crits btw
One of the best simple mods i ever used

[upbeat gyro]

You had Desperado up, and also with that build you should just shoot 95%+ of the time, use shivs to take down maybe boss voidshields and if getting really badly cornered, push attack and GTFO with em

All those enemies around you would have melted to DAPs with Desp up

[zenith fern]

there are no voidshields

[upbeat gyro]

Well, whatever they are called 🤷‍♂️

Forceshield?

[mighty belfry]

Healthmaxxing on this class is not a bad idea tbh

[limber cradle]

Agreed

Personally I thought everyone was psychotic when they went "yeah 3 stam curios"

[upbeat gyro]

3 stam curios if you never get hit

[rotund agate]

I go 2 toughness 1 stam

[upbeat gyro]

I get hit all the time, so i go survivability

[limber cradle]

Its improbable

[pulsar aspen]

Getting lost somewhere far away from your team seems to be a staple to Hive Scum somehow.

[upbeat gyro]

Used to be zealot role back in the day

Those evades are so speedy, and often times you keep dodging from situation to situation and just more baddies popup that you got no time to clear

You end up further than you wanted

[limber cradle]

Very fast class that is very good at killing, makes sense

[upbeat gyro]

Or just bad playing + speed for many

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle I wouldnt have described the reasons for that as such.. but you do you.

[obsidian sand]

Ammo gets depleted so fast with autopistols though 😩

[limber cradle]

I mean for me personally its the speed mixed with the desire to never stop killing

Which pushes me to overextend

[upbeat gyro]

Focus elites/specials

[obsidian sand]

And the shivs were an armoury mistake

I use bonesaw

[pulsar aspen]

@obsidian sand Desperado creates a new magazine for you, essentially a separate infinite ammo pool while the ability is running.

[obsidian sand]

What is desperado

I.e. keystone, blessing etc

[limber cradle]

Bonesaw is only good if you really dedicate the build to it

[upbeat gyro]

Bonesaw is bad even if you dedicate build to it, without any melee nodes, its... well dont

[obsidian sand]

Which I am

[limber cradle]

Ability

[pulsar aspen]

@obsidian sand Your active ability.

[obsidian sand]

Ohh

[limber cradle]

Then I wouldn't also run DAPs

[upbeat gyro]

DAPs + desperado i was assuming you are full ranged, as you should be

[obsidian sand]

Lowkey might just switch back to comb axe atp or level up my shivs

[limber cradle]

Shivs are nice

Like the funny throw, good dopamine trigger

[upbeat gyro]

Leveling up shivs shouldnt cost that much if you farm some games with some lvl 20s for it

If you low on resources, go do some easy havoc10-15 quick for some plaststeel

Its end of week so you get it now soon

Havoc10-15 will be like heresy-damnation

One game gets you the rewards already

[pulsar aspen]

I would just play normal games.

[upbeat gyro]

One Havoc game is very helpful a week for resource grind, equals lots of normal games

[pulsar aspen]

True. Could lead to a lot of frustration too.

incoming more reddit posts about how garbage party finder is and that there are no Havoc missions PLEASE GIVE HAVOC QUICKPLAY or some such nonsense.

[upbeat gyro]

Just start one yourself very low, it fills up

People want the 50 havoc mission penance for black armor set

Im still grinding it too so i take easier than i need for quick chill games now and then

[zenith fern]

3+ stamina curios for full melee speed

it is unironically funny build

[limber cradle]

Its funny but scum really wants 1x health curio ime

They have one popped by bursters at full hp health

[sand tendon]

iirc this isn't the case if you're running hive city brawler and have high stam

[limber cradle]

From full health or with any amount of inevitable chip damage

[sand tendon]

i only ran 2 5%hp perks and still had a good amount of health leftover from eating burster

on 40 ofc

from full

[limber cradle]

You only need one 5 percent to survive a pb

They have vet health

[sand tendon]

let me see if i can pull from combine's stream

he runs no hp and 3x stam curios and survived quite a few bursters

or god forbid i download a bunch of mods for creature spawning

[obsidian sand]

Is the needle pistol any good?

[sand tendon]

quite literally too good

[obsidian sand]

Soo I should buy it

[zenith fern]

not even too good

OP busted

[obsidian sand]

I'm gonna get it then

[sand tendon]

that is what too good means no?

[zenith fern]

More than too good

[obsidian sand]

What would be great is if it were in the armoury or the requisitorum

[sand tendon]

i downloaded some mods

[zenith fern]

Chem stacks

Mag dump to bosses and will melt their health

Oh wait i am stupid

You can get on brunt

Buy a grey one with a good roll

[obsidian sand]

Oh yeah

[sand tendon]

so yeah scum doesn't necessarily need the hp curios/perks in order to survive 1 burster as long as they run hive city brawler and have high stam at moment of boom

[zenith fern]

You want to dump damage stat

[obsidian sand]

Is this any good

[zenith fern]

skinnymungas scum

[zenith fern]

yes for now

[obsidian sand]

Alr thanks

[zenith fern]

Id suggest dump damage but this one works fine enough

[sand tendon]

excuse you his name is crusty scum sock

[limber cradle]

Yeah, at the moment of boom

[obsidian sand]

Did some consecrating

[limber cradle]

Now do it post stam drain

[novel oracle]

Yes
The 2nd shout is tied the variable that comes into effect when exhaustion starts, and since exhaustion is removed, the condition for the 2nd shout never happens

[unique spire]

STABILITY

[obsidian sand]

Is that a perk or a blessing

[zenith fern]

the stat

[obsidian sand]

Ohh

My current gun has 60 higher rating and only 4 more damage

[zenith fern]

Damage stat only affects the projectile hit

[obsidian sand]

I think I forgot to equip ut

It

And for some reason my character auto-readied up

[sand tendon]

at 55%

obv at 0 i would die but as scum you shouldn't be running into problems with stam

[limber cradle]

Yeah, and it looks like it'd kill you at lower stam

[limber cradle]

I'm just saying, less than ideal circumstances happen from time to time

[obsidian sand]

How on earth did this burster not burst

[limber cradle]

I like mitigating for those as opposed to ideal situations

[zenith fern]

perks i usually go Unyielding and reload speed
Run and gun, desperado

[sand tendon]

oh no for sure. i'm not arguing that he couldn't use the extra hp i'm just saying he doesn't need it to survive 1 burster

[limber cradle]

Tbf I'm not worried about 1 burster

[zenith fern]

Or the blessing that makes you immune to ranged attacks up to 50% stamina or something

forgot the name

[limber cradle]

I'm worried about that burster after chip damage or in a horde

Or my idiot teammate shooting it lol

[zenith fern]

Burster behaviour is funny

[sand tendon]

for sure

[zenith fern]

You should be careful and try to shove it when near you

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/dab-dabbing-gif-13418160

[sand tendon]

there's a window of time where if you're fast enough you'll know whether or not it's a "friendly"/bugged burster and if it is you can just let it sit inside your model

[zenith fern]

Are you playing with motion blur?

[sand tendon]

if you move after that it'll do its hop

[zenith fern]

Watching the clip gave me nausea

[sand tendon]

but it's really fun to run around and push a non-booming burster toward your teammates

another thing you can do (if you have the reaction speed for it) is if the burster is too far to be pushed but still in range to boom you can use bolt pistol explosion to push idk if it's only the new mark that can do it EDIT: seems only the new mark has an easy enough time doin it

alternatively you can also use blinders if you have em

[obsidian sand]

This gun is beautiful

The passive damage is so convenient

[zenith fern]

Shoot a needle to most specials and elites and watch them decay

Just one needle

[obsidian sand]

That doesn't realy work on bulwarks and crushers

Probably need 2 or 3

[zenith fern]

Crushers need more than 3

[obsidian sand]

You're forgetting I have teammates

[lost ravine]

untrue statement

[zenith fern]

The only teammate is you

[obsidian sand]

Fair enough

[main trellis]

Take their responces with a grain of salt - you are correct
They are half serious

[stuck quarry]

I've started working on a Hive Scum and am having a blast. I'm only Level 16 but would love Shiv build advice. I'm really enjoying Rampage and just now working towards a keystone

I see a lot of people use toxin in-game but I really like the rocket too. If I'm not going a chem focused build, is the rocket fine?

[sand tendon]

any blitz you take will be fine

[zenith fern]

All blitzes work good for any build

RPG is good for cracking armor and boss damage

[mighty belfry]

So ya you were right.

I tested specifically after you mentioned it and yeah since the Rampage buff the second shout just doesn't happen

So honestly, Forge's Below has become a much less desirable choice.

At least until this is fixed.

[rotund agate]

its still good for setup against a mixed horde or elite group (or getting some breathing room if you activate it when surrounded like I tend to do sometimes)

[mighty belfry]

Not good enough to warrant a talent point for it

Not right now at least.

Second shout was honestly the most valuable thing about it imho

[pallid quail]

second shout would be better if they said something cool

[sand tendon]

iirc it's because second shout was tied to "gaining" the exhaustion debuff

but now that exhaustion is gone...

[pallid quail]

like a swear or a slur or something else

[mighty belfry]

Yeah I see Cole mentioned it.

[sand tendon]

the shout is still extremely strong regardless

[mighty belfry]

They could have just coded it to be on the ability ending but noooooo

Thing is that if you really wanted that utility.

I mean

Boom Bringer is right there to be an opener.

[pallid quail]

dude u dont understand they have to do everything in the weirdest n most backwards n complicated way

[sand tendon]

the other utility is adding the delay to attack patterns

[pallid quail]

cus its lore accurate

[sand tendon]

eg) sword captains and chaos spawns take a beat and wait sometimes before moving onto the next attack

[astral canyon]

Boom bringer isnt as instant

Its more comparable to blinders

[mighty belfry]

Blinders can't stagger as much as Boom or Shout can

They're great don't get me wrong but, the only thing that's really comparable there is the amount of time to accomplish it.

[sand tendon]

there's also the resource cost depending on how much your team hungers for grenade pickups

obv if you're the only one who needs pickups it doesn't really matter if you lose a rocket or not

[mighty belfry]

That tends to be rather often honestly.

The attack animation slow down is still nice though

I will give it that.

[rotund agate]

I have had moments where I pull up boom bringer as an opener/breathing-room-clearer on a melee build, only to immediately get downed as a result of being already in melee range.

[mighty belfry]

You gotta make space.

Gotta be deliberate on when you wanna pull it out for that purpose and not even by that much.

[manic wolf]

Eh, it became a less desirable choice post this recent patch too, so double kick int proverbial goolies

[mighty belfry]

Oh yeah I'm saying specifically it's less desirable because of the patch screwing with it.

[manic wolf]

I mean outside of the bug of it not pushing dogs, sorry should have been more specific with that, i meant in general cos no debuff

[modern matrix]

Whats yalls fav hive scum weapon to use ?

[mighty belfry]

I'm still gonna use it. Cuz I like it anyway.

Even if right now it isn't necessarily the best option.

[manic wolf]

Totally fair enough

Being able to turn bosses off for a moment is still highly valuable

Or you know, ledge them

[mighty belfry]

And admittedly. The fact that it can still save your teammates in a pinch is still a utility I value quite a bit.

[mighty belfry]

Shiv, tac axe and heavy sword.

[modern matrix]

Im not really hooked on the tac axe but i wanne try it but im just not convinced , what do you like about it ?

[mighty belfry]

Tac axe honestly being the strongest choice of those.

Imho

The fact that it can do both amazing single target and horde clear in one package

[modern matrix]

Ill give it a try next time

[mighty belfry]

While also synergizing very well with precision violence for toughness regen because of the attack speed.

[modern matrix]

I just feel like other weapons are better choices instead of the tac axe

[mighty belfry]

What's your tac axe setup?

Because this matters quite a lot.

[modern matrix]

None😭💀

I barely use it

Im more a psyker main

[mighty belfry]

Try this

Carapace + Unarmored

Brutal Momentum + Headtaker

Or if you really want more single target, Carapace + Unyielding

Shred + Headtaker

[modern matrix]

I asume those are the blessings and masteries

[mighty belfry]

Yeah.

[manic wolf]

Can also do Slaughterspree and Decimator/Headtaker, but its pretty off-meta at the current time

[mighty belfry]

Works on psyker too.

[mighty belfry]

Hyperviolence carries this tbh

[manic wolf]

That was the whole idea, you just forcefeed damage into it

[mighty belfry]

I tried it and it works but I can tell it's way more up and down than the usual.

But I do like it.

[manic wolf]

Higher peaks, lower valleys, though most of the time the valleys don't seem to matter massively unless you're missing 20% or more of your swings

Ye is fun

[mighty belfry]

I mean

It's Hive Scum we're talking about here.

[astral canyon]

Is it?

[manic wolf]

Yes, but I mean the valleys are only really a downside if you drop Deci' stacks constantly, its still twice the power increase HT gives you, you gotta miss a hell of a lot of swings over the course of a mission to lose out to any degree

An one shotting, or nearly one shotting Carapace enemies is just absolute value town

[pallid quail]

lol i knew u were still alive

[mighty belfry]

Tbf that can still happen with BM because of how it changes cleave distribution.

And makes damage ramping more consistent.

[manic wolf]

Yes and no, the extra damage from the cleave is nice, but its also a lot less as a general rule in my experience, an you can take cleave talent in the tree/Rampage cleave node an you're still benifiting from that a lot of the time, just to a lesser degree with more emphasis on the extra damage off the first couple dudes who take hits

[mighty belfry]

It's not just cleave itself.

Brutal momentum makes it that cleave distribution doesn't kick in at all for those four targets.

[manic wolf]

I know what it does, but the point is that you're generally still getting less damage than you would by nuking the first two dudes that get hit because the overkill amount ends up being higher

Its more of a feedback loop than a consistent baseline, when it starts running away with itself, the highs are astronomical

[mighty belfry]

True. But its consistency is the selling point here. It may not suddenly ramp up to extremely high values on a dime but it will consistently accumulate overkill through a horde till you get a lot of overkill to work with.

[jaunty coral]

what tac axe do you guys think works best for tac axe rampage build? is it the 7? i do really like the IV as well, its single target feels so good, but its horde clear is super meh

[woeful hill]

mk7

[mighty belfry]

Mk7

[woeful hill]

push attack heavy

if you wanna light spam mk4

[mighty belfry]

That bring said

I do like mk4 with channeled aggression

[jaunty coral]

i do a lot of heavy-light repeat too with it

its single target just doesnt feel great to me

light light heavy for single target ya? to repeat the overhead heavy?

or do you just light spam and mix in specials

light-heavy-light-light-heavy

works ok

special, special, heavy for the overhead i think works too

ya, im not sure any of them are more dps than just heavy chaining actually

[manic wolf]

Oh yeah no absolutely, I get why people don't run it, but its still very strong in the current game

[jaunty coral]

actually, special, special, heavy on crushers when you're buffed, is pretty nice

[manic wolf]

MKIV do be having the best special chain

[mighty belfry]

Uppercut special is crazy single target damage.

[jaunty coral]

ya i love it

i do hate light spamming hordes tho

someone give me a hybrid of the two xD

bro special, special, heavy on mk 7 is pretty legit

chains the overhead heavy

with AS up from rampage it feels smooth

BM shred, or BM headtaker for the 7 you guys think

[verbal dew]

scum has good enough crit stacking so I have headtaker

[main trellis]

Despite the fact its heavies have innate 30% rending and combined with overall adm they have like 0.9 vs cara?

Or so i’ve heard

[jaunty coral]

just deciding now on the flex points, think i want rending on it. And i like forges bellow, but i feel i may need to drop forges bellow + quick and deadly, so i can grab HC + HV and chem dependency

[main trellis]

Never drop FB

[jaunty coral]

ya, iz good but

tight on points

[main trellis]

Show build

[verbal dew]

FB never triggers its 2nd shout now tho

[pallid quail]

chem dep is gross on the grounds that its not laid out symmetrically

[main trellis]

Don’t matter; what does matter is you can stagger shit on demand

[jaunty coral]

cant even grab the last node of chem dep either. I could drop HV i guess

[main trellis]

Weapons?

[verbal dew]

ye I wish bottom right tree had better pathing

[jaunty coral]

oh it doesnt? they broke it when they removed the 'downtime'? or just removed it to compensate for the buff?

[verbal dew]

former

[jaunty coral]

making a tac axe rampage build

ranged weapon, whatever. with this needle pistol at the moment

but sometimes ill drop pickpocket and just rcok dual stubs for fun

and just not use ammo too much

also realized i think i may want 5% crit aura instead of 10% dmg

need that crit high

[mighty belfry]

You'll still notice it quite a bit on crushers.

Not necessary by any means

But it is a pretty nice bonus.

[jaunty coral]

what about mk7, should i drop the rending node? for h40? i DEF noticed having it

but maybe its a bit win-more, and the ttk on crushers isnt needed

i could drop HV, maybe i dont need hc + hv on it

[mighty belfry]

Honestly with mk7 I'd just run coated for more carapace damage

You attack so fast that it can actually stack up pretty quickly.

[jaunty coral]

lol yet another point

you're killing me here

do you think quick and deadly, HV (already have HC), or channelled aggression is a better flex point for rampage mk7 - if you could only choose one (lets assume i have coated weaponry already)

im stuck on last point here

[mighty belfry]

HV is extremely good on tac axe

[jaunty coral]

kinda figured, attacks so fast

guess ill just be ok without any rending

ill try it this way then ty

[mighty belfry]

And as discussed earlier, some setups synergize incredibly well with it.

I also think quick and deadly is overrated on melee builds

[jaunty coral]

ya, it is a bit

too hard to leverage the 3s

[main trellis]

Ye drop noobpocket & go stubs and you’re set
I would consider swapping HV for Coated - will help more vs singles

[sturdy linden]

Could just use bistol and not need pp

[manic wolf]

Wouldnt ever drop HV on tacaxe tbh

[flat mist]

There's always a better choice

It's a shit node

[flat mist]

Its HV and its not close

[jaunty coral]

i just keep going back to mk MKIII knife, stimm supply needle pistol build

it just SLAPS

chorus zealot, recon las and krak vet, flame psyker with bubble and me

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a116c652-30f6-421c-a29b-45c870bd67b2/hive-scum-support-chemist-knife-maniac

what you guys think, so far i think this is my favorite hivescum build overall

am i doing anything dumb?

doing 850k melee dmg with a knife, with no cleave talents or rampage feels strong lol

hive scum is just him

[mighty belfry]

this is a very solid build actually

[jaunty coral]

it feels so good, i think theres argument to shift 1-3 points around for other stuff

but this is kind of what ive landed on tweaking it, and trying to find a balance between crit chance, dmg nodes etc

i know its not super unique, but the playstyle with the mk III knife just kind of works perfectly for me.

[tranquil berry]

Some suggestions: Crit chance aura and giving up crate bomb for the dodge recovery talent

It's not unique, this is "the crate build", one of only 3 builds this class really has, if you allow a couple of floater talents

[jaunty coral]

yep, those are some of the alterations ive tried.
i went away from crit chance aura and the extra chem dep. stack bc i found it was a bit overkill, but i think its totally a viable pick.
I love the crate bomb tho, it really amps my dmg and clear into hordes - but i also love jittery. Ive been purposly trying to play without jittery but yes, it makes you basically invinsible lol

[tranquil berry]

Scum is weirdly limited

[mighty belfry]

I do think crate bomb isn't a terrible choice honestly. But I can see other talents working out better.

Just cuz it isn't a lower cooldown stimm

[jaunty coral]

i know thats why i said its not unique, just showing how i tune it with the mk III knife

[jaunty coral]

ya, i do sometimes run it i with a lower cd stimm, but this one feels pretty low in practice tbh

i think its a solid argument to drop it

[tranquil berry]

Yeah, i had mixed feelings about the crate bomb. You usually drop it right behind your frontliner so it ends up not bombing anything most of the time

[mighty belfry]

yeah if you get it down, crate bomb can feed into sample collector

[tranquil berry]

It's nice when it pops just right, but it rarely does

[mighty belfry]

That's why you gotta move around with it a little. Only issue is that you may not give your teammates the benefits but I try to branch further away to place it down in an opportune spot.

[jaunty coral]

idk, i find i get good value out of it, but imma try without it this game and see how it feels

[tranquil berry]

Sometimes it's nice, yeah, but you should be putting that crate sorta in the middle of your team, so there tend not to be enemies there

[jaunty coral]

as long as they can touch it, i push where i put it to be more aggro

and i dont worry about all 3 touching it every time

'close enough, + value on enemies" is how i do it

[tranquil berry]

In theory yes

[jaunty coral]

trying without it this game, wish me luck

[mighty belfry]

if you're using it well, you'll get your stimm back quickly with a somewhat decent horde to feed it

[jaunty coral]

final toll + stimms, zz

[tranquil berry]

But I'd recommend making it easier for your back line to touch it, by not making them have to dive the front for the drugs

Anywho, not a bad talent either way, just one i have rarely gotten good use out of, mostly due to placement and pacing

[tranquil berry]

at least you're not named something-something-fent. congrats! Proud of ya! Seems like fent is the only thing zoomers know and half the scums have that in their name.

[low harbor]

Name ur hive scum as “goon”

[bronze glade]

would that not be a banned name lol

[jaunty coral]

im still named after a silly pun tho, is it much better? xD

[astral canyon]

Nope

I saw a video where someone had it as their name

[calm aurora]

Is booby trap that useful in the long run?

[brittle sierra]

Yeah

Path 💀

[brittle sierra]

It's usefulness is hard to gauge

Just because it's soo hard to time properly

But in those situations where you can hit a ball of a mixed horde it feels like cooming

[main trellis]

Stimm cd don’t matter if you run that one special range weapon nobody ever thought bringing into crate scum build

You can spam with 75s stimm no issue (atleast in havoc cause hordes are constant)

[brittle sierra]

7 stacks of chem kills everything that isn't a mutant or Ogryn

And it CCs everything that isn't a boss

The problem is that you want to position the crate away from the horde so that your team can get it

That's why it's soo hard to time

Plus usually you just slap it wherever, get the buff so you can start slaughtering everything

[calm aurora]

Stimm cd is a sham

[brittle sierra]

New idea get minimum CD crate build and just carpet bomb everything

[calm aurora]

The problem is pubs don't ever go into the stimm zone sometimes.

I have to time this out and trick them

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-erik-king-james-doakes-surprise-motherfucker-surprise-gif-4719446

[brittle sierra]

Gives 40 shots of LSD to a random stranger on the boss

[alpine orchid]

I have one 20% HP curio and 2 21% HP curios and the missing 1.5 HP is triggering beyond words

[low harbor]

And Mr unc

I got it from him

[low harbor]

No actually
Also
Blueballs is a banned name
Blueball isn’t

[brittle sierra]

Just one ball

The other is for pissing 😈

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-kid-goku-happy-goku-goku-happy-celebrate-gif-7325601968984661707

[jaunty coral]

i find it super useful, but it may be bias. I find i can put it in front and drag a mixed horde throughi t pretty often

[low harbor]

no, u just frontline as chemist and pop crate like VoC

other frontliners would also get value

[brittle sierra]

Y ah but if you pop the crate and you start slaughtering what will there be left to bomb? 😔

[low harbor]

chemist hvs can't dps check mixed horde as hard as rampage does

[jaunty coral]

exactly

i just dont worry about the backliners always getting it, and usually the range is enough they still can touch it most of the time

[jaunty coral]

oh ya, absolutely it can't, but it does ok if you have a stim supply up for the bomb, spread a mag of poison on the gun and start push attacking with the knife, its sort of 'good enough'

[calm aurora]

Yeah but if your other frontliner has psword, a weapon with bm of another good horde weapon... There's not much less to kill with the booby trap

[bronze glade]

seems legit

[sand tendon]

scum being disallowed in name now is why i'm stuck as:

don't want to lose a legacy name

[brittle sierra]

Scummy

[solemn merlin]

Hey

[keen sapphire]

is dodge melee while sliding good

because it seems to just not really do that?

[solemn merlin]

can some give me a build using the crow bar and a melee build

[sand tendon]

is nice if you're the battery carrier

also if you're having to run/kite really hard

[low harbor]

I don't think 5s is that long a window that it can't get value if u have a high dps frontline melee player with u

[calm aurora]

Yeah, maybe. Not just a fan of non predictable talent.

[zenith pagoda]

Imagine power sword with rampage

[tranquil berry]

power sword with rampage? pass

with 2 power cyclers though.... now we're talkin!

[calm aurora]

Relic blade with rampage would be nice tho

[plain tide]

is there a generally agreed upon list for hivescum dump stats?

[tranquil berry]

rampage is so OP is should only be used with the revolver melee special

bet it can make that work!

[bronze glade]

don't think so

just ask if you have a specific weapon in mind

[plain tide]

Atm, the dual pistols and dual smgs

[zenith pagoda]

It MIGHT even make gauntlet melee good

[tranquil berry]

now now, let's not go that far

gauntlet melee is an ogryn weapon, and those can't be good

[bronze glade]

collateral dump on both

[zenith pagoda]

I don't think ogryn weapons have ever got nerfs

Only buffs

And the majority are still bad

[tranquil berry]

you can buff them all you want, three times zero is still zero

[flat mist]

Don't do a multiplicative buff, boom!

[tranquil berry]

any addition can be expressed as multiplication

if there's a way to do nothing, Fatshark will find it! Believe!

[unique spire]

@gaunt onyx want to duo on Helldivers 2

Yes duo

Doing 4 players on Cyberstan makes it more difficult since it will spawn more units

[gaunt onyx]

im in a game if you want to join

[unique spire]

Okay sure

[crude robin]

I really need to work out my talent tree

[gaunt onyx]

frog just got stoned and like friendly fire

[brittle sierra]

Let's get to work

[crude robin]

what

[limber cradle]

Upside down hand

[alpine orchid]

Finally got my last 21% HP curio

Peak achieved

[bronze glade]

cursed

[alpine orchid]

😔

[cinder rampart]

blessed****

[bronze glade]

run fatmangus if you want to hp max 😠

[hallow raft]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-no-u-gif-14873396

[alpine orchid]

I had to look up what this meant I'm so out of the loop man

Anyway no, funny tanky dodgy shirtless man, next question

[bronze glade]

you don't need hp to tank

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1461399148581490863/371AC71.MP4?ex=6993f0c4&is=69929f44&hm=448397045fd2800849692b23b63f4ce7ee4869478aaa2ca4ff9bf9dcab0536bc&

[alpine orchid]

Only 25 left? 👎

I take them with 126.6 HP left at the moment

[bronze glade]

how many crushers are you being overheaded by

[visual sigil]

Hey is hivescum DLC worth getting? I heard it was super underpowered, did the buffs make it better?

[austere coyote]

scum is good

[low harbor]

Hive scum is a top 3 class atm

[bronze glade]

if anything HIV is overpowered

contrary to what mr. E will tell you

not the easiest class to play tbf

[gaunt onyx]

almost an ogryn

[alpine orchid]

Play with the internet issues I have and you'd be surprised

Earlier I lagged back into both a crusher overhead and a mauler overhead and still had like 50 something health left

[zenith fern]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-stfu-shut-your-mouth-slap-slapping-gif-8050553153066707611

goofy ahh slap noise

[final temple]

all of em.

[final temple]

he changed his tune and now claims it’s the strongest melee class.

[low harbor]

(It’s still wrong)

[final temple]

one day he will figure it out. I am sure of it. I have hope. I believe.

[spice cloud]

Im sure that will never happen

[calm aurora]

Psyker best melee

[spice cloud]

Psyker is just psyker

Best melee best everything

[visual sigil]

yeah his videos are why I assumed the class is bad XD

[compact oyster]

Dont listen to mister e

Youll get much better advice here

[zenith fern]

dont actually ever listen to DT sloptubers

[pulsar aspen]

Do listen to them, but make your own decisions.

Even a fool can be right once.

And simply dismissing everything isn't a good idea either.

[limber cradle]

It's not worth sifting through that guys videos for their right once

[pulsar aspen]

For sure, but if you'd watch the video anyway?

[limber cradle]

Id tell you not to give them money on the views tbh

[spice cloud]

Wasnt mister e featured on the fatshark youtube channel?

[muted pivot]

it was never weak, and it is fun as fuck

worth it on fun factor alone

[lost ravine]

but what if i don't like the weapon roster

[muted pivot]

then it isn't for you I guess?

I realised I find arbitrator boring as fuck and lots of people love that lol

different preferences etc

[lost ravine]

i also do not like arby traitor

the only good thing about arbites is alix wilton regan

[flat mist]

Yeah me too

Levelled mine a few weeks ago and was bored so quickly

[muted pivot]

I will probably enjoy it again some day

[flat mist]

All the combat abilities i felt were unengaging

And dog isnt very interactive

[muted pivot]

I kinda like castigator stance for the terminator fantasy

[flat mist]

Although saying this i solidly enjoy hitting scriers/rampage and they arent exactly dynamic haha

[muted pivot]

(Arnold schwarjdzzaxcxzzsxzzazzzer, not the super space marines)

[flat mist]

Letting yourself get hit by packs of crushers bc you can does feel safisying after maining psyker for so long and now scum

[muted pivot]

Just going out and ressing dudes while being actively shot at by a sniper

[flat mist]

And then i remember i like being a squishy lil freak

[spice cloud]

Because being overpowered af tends to become stale rather quickly.

[muted pivot]

It's not just power

It's just that it also feels a bit clunky and unexciting for me

You just trundle through the map

[nova valley]

Thank god I am not the only one thinking that class is op. Other classes have op builds, but arby is just "easy mode"

[zenith pagoda]

no rending btw

[flat mist]

Not shabby ttk

[manic wolf]

Idk about "op", its just very hard to die with

Its got slightly above average DPS, but mostly Arb is a CC frontliner, whereas Scum for examples sake, is a DPS frontliner

[high mirage]

What's the best way to farm crafting materials? Mortis trials?

[muted pivot]

Damnation+ missions

Pick any tbh, probably the shorter full-length missions like Magistrati Oubliette are optimal

I think operations and Mortis are poor return per time

Always do events when they are available

[high mirage]

Gotcha gotcha

[high mirage]

Oh yeah, the cartel event gave me a nice bit of stuff

[spice cloud]

Atleast a psyker needs a modicum of skill to do all that broken shit but yeah arby is just easy mode.

With 0 downsides

[muted pivot]

I mean part of why I hate Arby is also because I suck at it lol

I can't do well on Arby or Veteran

The other 4 I'm happy with how i do

[spice cloud]

I hear that a lot from newer players yeah

I wonder what it is

I think its because they dont pick the tghnss regen nodes on top cause they use the dog

Ive seen plenty of very questionable builds like that

[muted pivot]

I'm at about 800,000 heretics slain lol, is that new

[spice cloud]

No

[muted pivot]

But I might just be building it wrong true

[spice cloud]

But a lil weird honestly

[muted pivot]

I think my issue today is I don't like the duckbill shotgun

And the mark 8 is deprecated now

[spice cloud]

Im not using it either

Its not

[muted pivot]

Maybe I should stick with my double shield build

[spice cloud]

Wgo even sayz that lmao

[muted pivot]

Heard it misses breakpoints now

[spice cloud]

Mark 8 is allways what i use

[muted pivot]

I should just go back to it and give it another go I guess

I was a lot happier with it with the mark 8

[spice cloud]

Duckbill is for people who suck at aiming

And its stronger

[muted pivot]

Got a silly gimmicky double shield build with the forceful-strength modifier

[spice cloud]

But mark 8 is hust more ammo efficient

[muted pivot]

That abuses the shield's flashbang for restoring my stacks

I liked the mark 3 for middle keystone at least

[spice cloud]

Idk i generally didnt use the duckbill

[muted pivot]

But middle keystone does suck

[spice cloud]

Eeeh

[muted pivot]

Duckbill generates like 6 melee stacks per shot with mid keystone

[spice cloud]

It woukd honestly be pretty damn good if they just made it like 50 stacks instead of 30

[muted pivot]

It's that or Vraks imo

[spice cloud]

I personally hate all autoguns unlesa its on scum

[woeful jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/goblin-gif-11823702054640360354

[muted pivot]

psykers do good with autoguns too lol

my other favourite

[high mirage]

What changes on scum?

[tranquil fjord]

for heavy sword rampage, is it worth it to even go for crits

[vapid jungle]

It feels fine without it to me

[exotic temple]

Well he is waffing on this it’s just a very skill dependent class. If you are good you can abuse the class to near psyker levels

[formal egret]

so im wanting to make a tanky support scum, what stim would yall recomend for the custom stims?

[visual sigil]

Gotcha!
Does he have a good build variety?

[manic wolf]

Not really

[calm aurora]

Wdym?

[rotund agate]

b-but bigger damage number against carapace and quicker hordeclear are good, right...?

[manic wolf]

They're good, but you're using HS for Hyperviolence abuse. If you can get some crit too, great, but you're mostly speccing it to chew through stuff en masse and Rampage rending and HV do the rest

[exotic temple]

Yeah each of the three combat abilities are viable. You can run about 5 different builds and rampage and desperado fix flaws on several weapons

[muted pivot]

Idk I just saw in Arby discord that everyone was saying the elite buff ruined the mark 8 and I just believed them lmao?

[calm aurora]

IIRC it always was a two shot affair with the proper perks and blessings. Maybe that changed?

[nova valley]

"Tanky" and "Hivescum" don't go along well, I am afraid

[bronze glade]

I think 2 shot for crushers might not be possible anymore

But meh who cares

[unique spire]

You want to support your team?

Any stimm path

[nova valley]

For the support part, assuming you use the stimm crate, I'd say that cd is appreciated in any build

So bottom right branch

[limber cradle]

Tbh if you throw box my favorite is always strength+movement

[nova valley]

Also

[limber cradle]

It is functionally impossible to go wrong with More Damage

[nova valley]

I suggest NOT going full viscosity, or you gonna end up using the crate with the cartel special sporadically

[astral canyon]

Same

[astral canyon]

Disagree tbh

[nova valley]

Really?

[astral canyon]

Just take practiced deployment and you'll always have crate ready when your stimm is also ready

[nova valley]

Of course

But still the cd if the stimm will be quite long

Even with sample collector

[astral canyon]

Not really a big deal with sample collector

[limber cradle]

Ime sample collector let's me get stimm back borderline as it runs out in havoc

[nova valley]

I agree that it helps (of course) but disagree on the part where is not a big deal

[astral canyon]

Specially if you also take fast acting stimms (WHICH YOU SHOULD ALWAYS DO WITH CRATE BECAUSE ITS BORDERLINE MANDATORY FOR THE ABILITY TO FUNCTION)

[nova valley]

FAS should be basekit, imho

[astral canyon]

Yes

[bronze glade]

once they fix the bug

crate's gonna be dead

[nova valley]

Otherwise all the buffs are only if you stand perfectly still inside, which is viable only in a tower defence game

[nova valley]

You mean the step in and out for double buff?

[bronze glade]

yeah

[astral canyon]

Nah

[bronze glade]

tho it's more like a uptime buff

[nova valley]

Nah,

[bronze glade]

than a double buff

[calm aurora]

What's that bug?

[bronze glade]

if you used your stimm

and you step into the crate, then step out, then step back in

you still get the stimm's effects

[calm aurora]

[limber cradle]

Bug in DT? Only got 6 months-a year to use it

[nova valley]

That is a bug, but fixing it won't kill crate. It will just make abusing it not an option (and rightly so)

[bronze glade]

crate's pretty sad without the bug, gonna be real

[nova valley]

Disagree. I think they should increase the area a bit though

[calm aurora]

Darktide is a "Only bugs! No nerfs" kind of game

[limber cradle]

Tbf the no nerfs are cause the playerbase freaks out and review bombs like HD2 players

[calm aurora]

It happened to DT before HD2 tho

[muted pivot]

Just to clarify, how does stimm box synergise with cartel now?

[limber cradle]

I said like not because of

[muted pivot]

If I use box without cartel being reasy

Ready

[astral canyon]

Reasy

[muted pivot]

Does it just do the basic anti-corruption effect?

[nova valley]

Community of a game is the problem "50% of the time all the time" cit.

[muted pivot]

I mean still not bad tbh

[limber cradle]

I unironically think more games devs should listen to their community less

[muted pivot]

Maybe won't bother putting CDR on my box stimm then

[nova valley]

Completely agree

[bronze glade]

yeah esp with the current bug no reason to

[muted pivot]

Crit and some kind of speed stimm then. Might even do a toughness one for the penance since it's less shit now

[calm aurora]

It's actually good for the penance and pubs now.

I got it in 3 missions I think.

[formal egret]

Cool

[toxic vapor]

is it just me or does heavy attacks not register with the crowbar sometimes

[rain tinsel]

They should listen, but not always agree.

[limber cradle]

Nah idk man, I like when games have a clear vision and execute on it

[rain tinsel]

A clear vision can still be a bad one. Listening to what the community says and looking at how it works within the vision or scope is generally the best bet. Ignoring the community can be ignoring problems, but listening to them too much can be changing your game into something it wasn't intended to be.

[limber cradle]

Maybe the game isn't for you if you think the vision is bad tbf

[rain tinsel]

Tekken 8 is ignoring their community and dying for it.

[limber cradle]

Don't play fighting games, personally.

[rain tinsel]

Sometimes, the community is bringing up valid, even gamebreaking issues, so it's always worth a listen. However, when they want to change the idea behind a concept, it's okay for devs to disagree and move on.

Several classes in DT were hot trash on launch and required serious buffs just to compete on a basic level with Veteran and... Veteran.

FS was right to listen to people that showed that many of the classes either simply didn't work as intended (half of Ogryns talents didn't even work) or needed major nudges in order to be viable after Malice.

Ogryn is the shining example in this regard.

[mighty belfry]

Fatshark unfortunately kind of took balancing everything to Vet's level too much to heart

[woeful hill]

but the term viable is so vast term

[rain tinsel]

I have a feeling that dev turnover had a lot more to do with that than purely intentional balance design changes.

[mighty belfry]

Where its been this game of catch up between every class at this point, til now where every class is technically viable because everything is buffed to high noon but the game around it is also buffed to compensate.

Some more than others obviously.

Admittedly the state of this game currently is starting to do me in a little.

[rain tinsel]

I openly lament the loss of how smaller scale the release version of the game was. A screen full of enemies was not only rare, but virtually unheard of, because individual enemies were much more of a threat.

[limber cradle]

The only thing I personally want FS to do is to stop breaking the game engine but clearly they won't so /shrug

I'm entirely sure they know they are too

I don't think they need me to tell them that

[final temple]

Just gimme chaos wastes 2.0

[rain tinsel]

I honestly think Tencent bankrolled DT just to get access to the engine for other projects.

[limber cradle]

The

Dead, hasn't been worked on since 2022 or engine?

Known only to a handful of devs at FS they sometimes loan out to AH iirc

[rain tinsel]

My understanding is that HD2 uses the same engine

[limber cradle]

Yes

[rain tinsel]

In any case, I think DT had an issue of clear LACK of vision from the start, compiled with many systems, mechanics, and balance decisions made by prior staff that are no longer working on the game, so the current game is how newer staff decided to adjust for the issues rather than hone in on an vision that wasn't theirs.

Basically, they D4'd it

They saw it was in an in-between of smaller scale, harder combat, or large scale, easier combat, and picked a direction.

The latter tends to cause lots of number bloat in... everything, as well and constantly surging player power.

The prior has smaller numbers, more "intimate" encounters, but is far more punishing and requires careful balance so that no one class or enemy type is too much or too little.

[limber cradle]

Latter btw

[rain tinsel]

Oops

[limber cradle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

As far as I'm concerned the community bitching and screaming about nerfs is why the game is balanced as it is

[rain tinsel]

That's just become an industry-wide issue, not just FS.

[limber cradle]

It's painful

[rain tinsel]

Devs fear blowback, so now they never nerf.

[limber cradle]

Id say its especially prevelant with pve games but that is probably confirmation bias cause I havent liked a pvp game in awhile

[narrow ember]

whats the diffrent modes on the needle pistol?

[limber cradle]

6 does a stagger explosion, 2 explodes in a chem tox dot

[narrow ember]

wich one is better?

also the alt fire of it

[compact oyster]

helldivers 2 uses stingray

but they dont have the same expertise fatshark has with using it

[calm aurora]

Oo what are you on? I was playing duos and trios with another ogryn before the tree update when they introduced hisg. All was needed was a butcher cleaver for the horde and the mk5 ripper for the occasional snipe.

[rain tinsel]

I did the same, but with a Rumbler or Grenade Gauntlet. Didn't like the Rippers.
Even then, Ogryn still wasn't good compared to Vet or Zealot by a long shot.

The Slab Shield being a "hur dur plant and tank" weapon was also awful and needed changes.

[calm aurora]

Ogryn had a lack of good weapons problem mostly.

[rain tinsel]

I was very happy when they made it good to attack with

[vapid jungle]

Communities complain no matter what. Its tough to balance vision and meeting the players expectations.

[rain tinsel]

Back then, a bunch of Ogryns talents didn't work either, and it took data miners to show that some of them didn't even have coded functions to point it out.

They had placeholder notations.

[rain tinsel]

That's true, and it's up to devs to parse out the legitimate complaints from the bullshit ones.
I'm not saying it's easy or fun to do, but it's necessary in order to make sure ethat you aren't missing something that the masses are noticing.

[calm aurora]

I don't remember that at all before the tree update

[rain tinsel]

It was there. They had like two tank Feats that literally did nothing, and a few that were coded to basically fall off before they ever got any use.

[vapid jungle]

Totally agree. Player bases have no idea what they want. Even if they did they don't know how to implement.

[rain tinsel]

Correct, most don't. You can, however, look at the overall demand for something and see how to work it in or adjust based on the intended features and playstyle of the game. It's definitely a juggling act, and players often don't get that.

A good example of that is, actually, Ogryn with Dogs or Nets.
Players keep asking for a way for Ogryn to either be immune to it, or to get them off, and the devs have NEVER listened. Good.

It shows that the devs DO listen to other issues, but they ignore the ones that obviously fly in the face of the games intended mechanics and balance. Ya, they are by no means perfect with those things, but they at least seem to have SOME set of lines they will not cross.

[mighty belfry]

I'll be honest. I do think there's should be some nuance to Ogryn's interaction with dogs or particularly mutants actually. It is kinda silly a little poxhound can lock down an ogryn the way they can and they're already pretty disadvantaged against specialists as a whole compared to every other class just by their sheer size.

Not that they should be completely immune. That's dumb.

[tranquil fjord]

in the worst situations enough of a pounce or mutie throw will just kill you

[main trellis]

Cd on specials like dogs & mutants as a passive

Done

[mighty belfry]

And especially

Why does the ogryn have the most disadvantaged animation out of every class against mutants?

[main trellis]

They did so with dodges againts chaf to throw them aside; they can do it for those 2

[mighty belfry]

That's just bad design honestly.

[main trellis]

4 hits

Instant hits

[rain tinsel]

The point of disablers is to disable. Plenty of things in the game fly in the face of common sense, so a dog pouncing a big guy while tearing into them and being plague-powered by a cosmic god shouldn't be the breaking point.

[mighty belfry]

From a mechanical and a logical standpoint.

[mighty belfry]

The issue is that ogryns are way more susceptible to these disablers than anyone else.

[rain tinsel]

Giving Ogryn a better method of AVOIDING a disable on account of their larger hitbox or worse animations is entirely fine. I just don't like the idea of bypassing the point of an enemy type due to "muh realism" or anything like that.

[mighty belfry]

And again. In one particular case, one specialist somehow treats ogryn even worse than anyone else.

[rain tinsel]

Honestly, make their shove longer, larger, and harder, so that they can more easily shove dogs out of the air AND push mutants out of a charge or something. They can PREVENT the disable, but they can't bypass the attack otherwise. Ya, a longer dodge would work too.

[mighty belfry]

It's really weird

[astral canyon]

I'd be down for that

[rain tinsel]

I think that buffing Ogryn shove across the board would be better, make more sense for the class, and would still reward skill over removing the disablers functionality.

If a Vet shouting "HUR DUR EMPEROR" can stop a Mutant mid-charge, an Ogryn shoving it should too.

[mighty belfry]

There's also something to be said about the current gamestate and how it particularly screws with them.

Given how bad specialist spam is.

[vapid jungle]

Fix audio in doorways and were on our way!

[muted pivot]

Anyone got a good tac axe build?

think I'm using tac axe 7 and a needle 2, don't mind any keystone, wanna probably go rampage on it though

is it meta to go adrenaline or chem dep with this?

[zenith pagoda]

https://youtube.com/shorts/eYp5zZjozlE

Hound ruined my clutch

[muted pivot]

I know you need both hypers

[calm aurora]

I have used both to great effect

[zenith fern]

Both but I like adrenaline more

[muted pivot]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a118b753-c046-47e7-960b-a94b6fef0f4f

does this look right?

I presume you don't need any cleave nodes because bromentum lmao

[zenith fern]

You using both HC and HV

[muted pivot]

I heard from most people talking about this build that that's the way to go

[zenith fern]

They don't work well together

[muted pivot]

I've heard mixed things about that

and at least for now I'm gonna use both

I'm more concerned about whether I'm missing anything else crucial

[zenith fern]

HC overwrites the value of HV if I remember

[limber cradle]

They do

Lemme

[limber cradle]

@mighty belfry you can explain this better than I can+i am lazy

[zenith fern]

I could have swear that they did not used to work together before

As everyone kept saying

[limber cradle]

I genuinely don't know how to explain it in a sensible manner but

They work together

[zenith fern]

Rest of the build is solid enough, if you wanna swap to adrenaline too with a similar build

Pickpocket on rampage build is not necessary as some people said but besides that it good

[zenith fern]

The descriptions of both talents always make my brain tingle

[limber cradle]

HC doesn't override HV damage iirc

Like if HC nets you the kill you still have HV pool i believe

Genuinely I'd just wait for Goblin to show up

They end up explaining this once every 3 days

[zenith fern]

When the goblin is chem toxic

Can't wait for next class have similar talent with the same type of description to my brain fry even more

[limber cradle]

Ill never get over "sliding makes you immune to melee attacks"

Like ik they're normally bad but that one is straight up lying

[thin seal]

does the ranged attack immunity during desperado proc the float like a butterfly talent?

[limber cradle]

Desperado?

Yeah iirc cause it counts as dodging

[thin seal]

oops yea, sorry meant desperado

[marble seal]

The first step to any successful melee build is to unequip needle so that you actually use the melee 🧠

[unique spire]

https://tenor.com/view/psychic-third-eye-enlightenment-telepathy-gif-22477198

[sturdy linden]

no. The way HC procs is a Boolean of IF:Critical=TRUE AND IF:CriticalHit<TargetHP<2xCriticalHit

its proc is independent of HV's existence, however, netting a kill with an HC proc does not funnel into the HV pool

[sturdy linden]

note that the 2nd part of the condition means that if your critical hit is big enough to kill the target outright, it is NOT an HC proc and so will add to your HV pool

tl;dr can use both together especially on a high finesse weapon

[zenith fern]

I never understood and never found any reason to use

I don't trust myself with what that description says

[limber cradle]

It breaks tracking

It doesnt make you immune

[limber cradle]

Thank you

[zenith fern]

I just hold or tap block when slide lol

As I hear the back hit audio cue

[mighty belfry]

Explodey bistol supremacy.

[zenith fern]

https://tenor.com/view/rigby-rigby-cat-rigby-the-cat-funny-silly-gif-2463265493534872578

My brain is so stupid to understand but in short words, good on high finesse melees like taxes and knife I suppose

[sturdy linden]

basically you need to crit and the crit needs to not outright kill the target on its own

to proc HC

[mighty belfry]

Got debunked a while back.

[zenith fern]

So I was not crazy

[mighty belfry]

If your crit was already going to kill the enemy, HC doesn't proc.

Meaning HV still ramps.

[sonic pumice]

you folks think that there is an universe where pickpocket gets a drawback like 70% reduced melee damage or something like that?

[marble seal]

https://tenor.com/view/hand-on-shoulder-akakichi-no-eleven-everything-will-be-ok-my-brother-in-christ-we're-gonna-beat-you-gif-16692013677699419935

[sturdy linden]

the same universe where Ogryn gets dodge linger probably

[sonic pumice]

definely not our timeline, the darkest of the timelines

[mighty belfry]

If anything, HC ends up being good with HV for

1: Rampage downtime
2: Making your crits horde clear better by basically creating a breakpoint to allow you to bypass cleave distribution.

So, not needed. But there's value in having both depending on your weapon and build.

[marble seal]

Unoptimized hive scum build: 200 million damage per hit
Optimized hive scum build: 300 million damage per hit

[mighty belfry]

1 quintillion damage per boom bringer rocket.

[sonic pumice]

467k ranged damage and 23k melee on a casual auric because pickpocket, its fun but MAN its definely not balanced

[sturdy linden]

I almost never play desperado HS

[sonic pumice]

it was no desperado

it was stim supply

[sturdy linden]

[sonic pumice]

pickpocket makes desperado irrelevant

[sturdy linden]

true ig

what gun

[sonic pumice]

Vraks

[mighty belfry]

Ranged immunity is still really nice tbh

[sonic pumice]

going fun crit fiesta

[marble seal]

You need desperado for good horde clear in havoc

[zenith pagoda]

Also vultures dodge makes desperado immunity pretty irrelevant

[marble seal]

Or else ur gonna stink

[mighty belfry]

It does not.

There's a particular utility to being completely immune to ranged damage while not actually engaging in combat.

[sonic pumice]

just burn one mag on the swarm and make sure to kill an elite/special with the second one you get, BOOM: free horde clear

[mighty belfry]

Like doing objectives safely. Or getting a very dicey revive off.

Vulture's Dodge requires you're always firing for the immunity.

[manic wolf]

Sure, like being able to turn off your brain and dribble on yourself for 20 minutes

An still clear

[sonic pumice]

powerceep so bad that a perk is better than a keystone and a skill, this is CRAZY

[manic wolf]

I hate Desperado, VD and Pickpocket with a passion at this point

[marble seal]

True

[manic wolf]

High skill class > Looks inside > The most braindead way of playing the game they've ever put in

[zenith fern]

Fatshark when making DLC classes having the most brain-dead mechanics

[sonic pumice]

desperado at least eats your skill, imagine having free ammo while giving your team toughness regen and strength for days

[zenith fern]

Power creep is a myth

[sonic pumice]

a falacy made by Tzeentch

[manic wolf]

I'm aware. The only Scum I find any joy in playing is Rampage Scum and they kinda ruined that a bit with the patch

[pallid quail]

its powerslop. you only hate it cus its good

[manic wolf]

No... I hate stuff that turns off most of the game. Hence why I very much dislike Psyker and Ranged Scum

[sonic pumice]

i hate et, because it means part of the power of me guns is there and the umies stole et

[marble seal]

Desperado Uzi is my go to easy win build but I barely see anyone running it

Not everyone can play it

[manic wolf]

I want to play the game, not be walked through it by stupidly broken mechanics like a toddler needing thier hands held

[manic wolf]

Because its boring

[marble seal]

I don’t think so

Remember when everyone was playing mouse 1 spam bullyclub ogryn

[pallid quail]

ehh

[tranquil fjord]

pickpocket being tied to meleeing and vulture's mark would probably fix the shenanigans

[manic wolf]

Because that wasnt also boring???

[pallid quail]

yea that shit sucks. depressing meta

[marble seal]

It was boring, and everyone was playing it

[lost ravine]

hmm today i will w m1 through the map and remain relatively unbothered because Big Stats

[sonic pumice]

and people still thing the clubs need buffs, the madlads

[manic wolf]

Are we playing the same game? Its literally the same thing wearing a different skin; immune to needing to interact with most of the game's mechanics because W + LMB = Win

[pallid quail]

club needs to be returned to how it was before the picks

[marble seal]

Why isn’t everyone playing it then 🤔

[sonic pumice]

funny considering that current clubs are still very good, people just forgot that in the middle of light spam they can heavy because that need working braincells

[sonic pumice]

club currently is fine imo, they are first and most suprerb stagger and debuff sticks nowadays

[manic wolf]

Because Rampage is actually fun? Not to mention that your average puglet is gonna be floor-inspecting most of the time regardless of what they run kek

[marble seal]

But you agree that people played bullyclub despite it being boring right

[pallid quail]

if by fine u mean boring n lame

[sonic pumice]

with confident strike its still quite absurd ngl, it just kills slower because OF COURSE IT SHOULD KILL SLOWER!

[manic wolf]

They are the same thing. Just because people havent realised how being immune to 80% of the game isnt absurdly strong yet, doesn't mean there is any sort of distinct difference

[marble seal]

Ah

So they just haven’t realized yet

[sonic pumice]

people could see something broken and never realize it, but when they do it will be spammed

[manic wolf]

You really don't realise how problematic these things are huh...

Helldiver spotted moment

[sonic pumice]

dont thing is boring, then again im used to heavy attack a fairl lot on clubs

[marble seal]

Wonder how long it will take we start seeing the Xbox Uzi scum face rolling h40

Only a matter of days perhaps

[sonic pumice]

box with toughness and damage resist and rending do sounds quite nutty

[marble seal]

Desperado scum is broken in a similar way to pre-tree revamp inferno shriek

The game breaking only continues as long as you are able to maintain space and kite

[pallid quail]

thats just wordslop

[marble seal]

Much easier to do on the class with 100 lightyear dodges but most players still won’t be able to in havoc

[pallid quail]

i dont see how maintaining space and kiting are "game breaking" theyre like fundamental mechanics

might as well call melee ogryn "game breaking" cus it only works in melee range

[lost ravine]

dodging and counterplay are broken too because you can beat things without taking damage

[pallid quail]

blocking is gamebreaking cus it prevents you from taking dmg

[sturdy linden]

Because light spam club sucks now after the multiple small nerfs Ogryn received over a couple patches + the mob HP buff

It's back to being a debuff stick

[lost ravine]

revives are gamebreaking because you get up when you went down

[lost ravine]

i'm sure it can relatively effortlessly bleed out anything you put in front of it

[pallid quail]

effort is gamebreaking cus u should just be better

[sturdy linden]

Does it work? Yes. Is it anywhere close to how insane it was on Ogryn rework patch? Hell no.

[marble seal]

The game breaking power is separate from but only enabled by fundamentals

[pallid quail]

also teamwork is gamebreaking cus u must live and die as you were born, alone

[lost ravine]

and what is this about pre rework inferno shriek

[pallid quail]

being good is gamebreaking cus if ur good u win more so u should be bad instead

[marble seal]

That is a very good point

[lost ravine]

real

[marble seal]

What is giving you pause my friend

[lost ravine]

what's so good about it

[pallid quail]

idk dude it was good then

its still good now tho

[marble seal]

It was about the same pre-rework damage wise

But there were like 5 psyker players in havoc 40

Cus no one could stay alive

[manic wolf]

Maintaining space from melee enemies whilst ignoring everything with a gun the entire match ho hum

Thats really not the skill expression you believe it is

[marble seal]

its not

but the average person cant do it, so they dont play it

[lost ravine]

"you have to be at least this close to hurt me"

[marble seal]

lol

wish I could make that my character name

[mighty belfry]

I can't believe you'd talk about Rampage like this

It definitely isn't completely brain dead after the patch.