hivescum-class

[bronze glade]

yeah

though shivs like battering momentum

[jaunty coral]

surprised at the saw hate, i think it feels really strong, just backloaded a bit

the overheads are a bit slow, but feel chonky which i like and i feel does overall good dmg

and it has respectable kill/clear times OVERALL just not upfront

as for DAP + desperado, i feel like I have totally kept pace with flame psykers in overall damage, but i havent tried vraks yet

ill def have to give it a shot

[dim moth]

the overheads do god awful damage to flak and carapace, but very good damage to the other health types

[light phoenix]

Stagger is nice on saw heavy

Not as strong as Crowbar alternate Heavy but still nice

[dim moth]

WOULD be nice if it didn't only apply on the second hit

[pseudo latch]

how reliable is vulture's omni-dodge thing

[dim moth]

effective invincibility so long as you are not standing still

[pseudo latch]

as in what's the uptime on that thing

and does it block everything

[dim moth]

the only attacks that can hit you are crusher/mauler overhead and explosions

uptime is effectively "whenever you are shooting things"

so

[winter tusk]

Does anyone know any good mod collections for fallout4?

[flat mist]

Thats not true. Any melee attack can hit you during vultures dodge. It does the same thing as slipper customer, ie, it makes enemy melee attacks not track you if the enemy attack is commenced while the buff is active.

Demonstration of bruiser hitting me while its active:

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/WlVJa1

[dim moth]

https://tenor.com/view/oye-cat-enough-stop-petting-gif-8639785326678511628

[flat mist]

I have no idea how to interpret that haha

[low harbor]

it actually did dodge

dodge sound played

[flat mist]

What hit me while vultures was up then?

[low harbor]

smth hit u before u did first crit

[low harbor]

but it did play the dodged sound

[flat mist]

I also gained stam. Which is also what happens when a melee attack is aimed at you when slippery customer is active.

Must be registering it as a dodge. Procs talents and plays audio queue. But only gives you tracking immunity.

[low harbor]

maybe

[flat mist]

Seems pretty conclusive

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[flat mist]

[zenith fern]

holy screen shake

Now that i just checked this change how do they mean by medium and heavy staggered?

[pallid quail]

heavy stagger is like on their asses

[zenith fern]

Same as fully staggered?

Or different

[pallid quail]

medium is somewhere between light stagger n that

[compact oyster]

Light stagger is overload

Medium is being blown back

[zenith fern]

Also i think someone said is not actual strength buff and still is damage

[compact oyster]

And heavy is falling down

I believe path said that

[pallid quail]

i would presume so but i like to think logically whereas fartsharts codemonkeys operate according to inscrutable tzeentchian whims

[zenith fern]

https://tenor.com/view/horangipower-cat-sleeping-sleeping-cat-talking-to-cat-ranting-gif-4642523517141133295

Fatshark when writing dialogue and fatshark when writing codes

[pallid quail]

regardless i suspect such a small str (or dmg) buff is not very good on a class thats focused on finesse

[flat mist]

Weird, huh? Thats what happens when you get hit by melee attacks but the dodge sound played so it must be a fake screen shake

[pallid quail]

like maybe it could synergize well with an arby who has free "stagger"

but like if ur missing heads cus an ogryn sent everything flying all over that 100% isnt gonna make up for u poking their feet or whatever it is u ppl do

[zenith fern]

Event mission moment

[zinc mirage]

I think it is pretty cool, It helps me delete maulers* lol and plasma dudes with my infantry autogun

[pallid quail]

... codgun is already good tho ? like is 10% rlyyyyy making that much of a difference ?

[zinc mirage]

I think it helps, maybe it is cope but I also like the following node with the melee dmg or dmg reduction depending on stamina

I'm also an auric scrub but the infantry autogun really melts everything except crushers

and I guess it also helps with rampage and melee attacks since you stagger a lot

[zenith fern]

This guy was cool at least

[zinc mirage]

ragequitting in the current event is very common
it is tough but I had some great matches, last one was pretty awesome when we were 3 ppl left, one dead bot on the last 50 meters for the extract and then a chaos spawn jumped into us and made for an epic ending

[muted pivot]

People splitting up and leaving you to deal with a chaos spawn alone as an inferno Psyker is also very common in this event

[pulsar aspen]

No one's going to mourn the death of a witch, so i see no issue here.

[muted pivot]

Well it turned into the usual thing of as-soon-as-i-lose-character-control,-i-never-get-it-back-until-the-wipe

[vast pagoda]

does hivey gain the perma buffs in the event from their own stims?

[pulsar aspen]

Yes.

[vast pagoda]

okay so its just the cooldown thats a problem

[compact oyster]

have you tried usig melee psyker

[pulsar aspen]

@vast pagoda You could also just remove the Cartel Stims entirely for those mission. You aren't locked into them.

Hive Scum is perfectly serviceable without them.

[vast pagoda]

some hive scums dont know about the buffs so i help them out tis all

[calm aurora]

impact dclaw is the new meta

[pulsar aspen]

@vast pagoda It seems very much like its not just Hive Scums who don't know about the buffs..

[vast pagoda]

oh yeah i know but when they specifically dont know and i tell em they usually have a long stim cooldown

[compact oyster]

lololol

[calm aurora]

hammerblow skullcrusher let's goooo

[pulsar aspen]

Ahem..

@main trellis

[main trellis]

I used that on HS since release yes
its surprisingly potent

can confirm

[calm aurora]

nah actually I will run rampage + skullcrusher, I am pretty sure the power from the rampage blessing and talent can stagger enough to juice sc and cheap shots

• the shout ofc

[main trellis]

rampage is overhyped imo; its 36% power (not damage; tooltip is wrong... ofc) and its on hitting 3 or more enemies
what if you gonna face Crushers? Maulers? Even Ragers? Hammerblow in combination with spammy moveset (of the mk1 unironicaly) and rampage ability power buffs make you stagger crushers even out of attack animations if you hit them enough times
I know cause i used it

[calm aurora]

yeah I use mk1 on hvs

[main trellis]

and as a matter of fact; makes SC more consistently applied

[calm aurora]

well, there's a case for having sc with 80dmg instead of 36 power

I mean, if you have to chose between sc and rampage

heavies will proce rampage, but you'll be fucked against a single target

[main trellis]

bruh; SC & HAMMERBLOW together; no rampage ever - overhyped blessing (its good but... everytime for ANY weapon that can use it there are better blessings to use instead)

[calm aurora]

it;s good on evis tho 😄

unless you're a perfect strike shred fiend

[main trellis]

Perfect strike + Bloodthirsty so you can actually use the weapon proper

[calm aurora]

on mk3?

[main trellis]

even opportunist would be better so you can kill crushers better

[calm aurora]

no mk15 right?

[main trellis]

on 15 yes

[calm aurora]

the one with strikedown heavies

[main trellis]

of all things too; Wrath would be better on 15 than rampage so you get better cleave

[calm aurora]

you went adrenaline or chemical dependency?

[main trellis]

since Dclaw likes crits its Chem demp; but can use Adrenaline too; difference is not noticable as much tbh in dps surprisingly

[calm aurora]

I only tried it with chem too

[dire badge]

Rampage is super strong

[calm aurora]

did you go rending or crit?

[dire badge]

Pared with hyper v you can two hit crushers

[main trellis]

rending

[calm aurora]

ok same same

[main trellis]

i tested both; not much difference either

surprisingly

[calm aurora]

going to try that tonight

[main trellis]

this is what i used before; range option is personal (might change some thing; refine if possible)
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/16934331275522923419/80BC1C8BABB2EDDC2BD1F6B2908F3AC83DA0796E/

[main trellis]

and this is what you do with everything active
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/16016558029050573030/7442C3742492847E93ED7BCE32A150DCE597C56B/

before rampage buff the moveset of mk1 was better than the rest cause when you lost all stamina & were vurnerable the push attack was a nice sweep in combination with sweep heavies for defence when you got caught in the middle of the horde
now its less important i think

mk4 might be better too cause first heavy with 25% rending talent might kill them faster cause previousy that augment was dogshit cause it would stop working the moment you reached half time of your ability

[main trellis]

YE; MK4 IS WAY BETTER

JUST TESTED IT

[calm aurora]

??

like how much better?

[main trellis]

this much
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/17896752300424466504/1B82C5E23AAEE696A36B56B8BC62A255D82BB1AE/

[calm aurora]

have you tried 7 then? the single target combo is nice

[main trellis]

first heavy ain't a strikedown

[calm aurora]

what the actual fuck

sc+hammerblow?

[main trellis]

yes; only mark was changed with rending augment on

[calm aurora]

yeah but you chain l3+h2 iirc

but ok H1 block cancel is nice too

[main trellis]

its not a heavy

so no rending

[calm aurora]

@novel oracle

undust your katana

[calm aurora]

AHHHH I forgot

[main trellis]

also; mk7 combo is light into heavy then light + light + heavy loop

[main trellis]

damn the attack spd makes it hard to make the combo unironically XD

[calm aurora]

un unirocally this works well for the mk1 in a mixed horde

is it me or there's a hidden heavy strike down after l3 on mk1?

[main trellis]

will check

[main trellis]

also; i fked up alot cause atta spd increase from stimm really messes up the combo window - actualy hard for mk7
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/17916340856594040820/ECB98A343F36964D853ACC691B5290968389331D/

[calm aurora]

well i did take the toughness branch not the attack speed one, I must say the claw feels fast enough already

And I am Unc

[main trellis]

its basically; more attacks = more dps; for mk7 definitelly not needed cause combo is fast enough
for the rest i recommend it; its great when you dont have rampage & need to go into town

[calm aurora]

I do miss combos

[main trellis]

also forgot to add; can parry cancel the first heavy on mk4 so you only heavy attack strikedown but that can backfire so i used the push att into heavy

[calm aurora]

and sprint cancel too no?

[main trellis]

that can work too

but you'll have to sprint

[muted pivot]

Team comp was full of bosskill with poor trash clear

[main trellis]

most likely you wont when facing crushers

[muted pivot]

I wanted to play gunker/melee but elected for venting inferno instead

[main trellis]

that is soo rare to witness in a pub its like finding a shiny pokemon

usualy its the other way around

[muted pivot]

And the boss killers left me with the boss lmao

[main trellis]

i imagined HS sprinting into Crushers belly and bouncing back like Tai lung from Po in their fight in Kung Fu Panda

[calm aurora]

clink clink clink

splash

[pulsar aspen]

@main trellis Death by a Thousand Cuts.

Also..ahem..this.

https://tenor.com/gYs9CDtBWnV.gif

[main trellis]

btw now that i think about it; since your combo for mk4 vs heavy elites is soo slow it might not be best to use the combo on it? Not sure; on mk1 its obviously good cause its a spammy weapon but on mk4 i dunno... maybe replace SC with shred unironically (Hammerblow stays cause rager stagger is important)

it makes killing bosses technically worse tho if they are staggered; for you only shred vs SC does not have much difference in dmg but SC benefits your team too so thats that

[main trellis]

yes there is; identical of the 2nd heavy from mk7
its still better to just spam lights on that mark cause the loop is vanguard into strikedown - it skips the 1st light

[jaunty coral]

what stimm?

[main trellis]

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/10595917994284641544/1B26F888F31B791F509EE9BBD689CEE98EA7C6EE/

[jaunty coral]

skullcrusher hammerblow is interesting, but how much worse does that make the weapon for general non armor use/horde clear?

did you do yours in h40, or auric meatgrinder?

this isnt h40, let me do it in h40 its just auric (what was yours?)
this is with a similar build, but im using wrath/shred the typical blessings however, and it still feels ok

like honestly, with a rending stimm those are fine TTK on crushers IMO, but needs stimm + ult

incoming h40 version waiting for stimm crit to stack so its a fair test

i probably dont need coated weaponry too, its pretty mid

but i find it nice on devil claw

damn, file is too long to post the h40 version

ok, i had to cut the very beginning out

3 h40 crushers, no skullcrusher but rending stimm + rampage

do you have a goal, or just testing TTK's on devils claw vs crusher?

i think you could run shred+wrath for general use, and still have ok crusher TTK as long as you're fighting them with rending on ult up

30 seconds for 3 crushers isnt great, but i also didnt use any parry

[flat mist]

Its only good for maintaining tox stacks on bosses. That's it. Which means you need another source to stack it. Which means you only run it with bonesaw, shivs and/or needler. It should never be taken, otherwise.

[jaunty coral]

ya i think this is probably a good call

i swear tho i feel it on devils claw

h40, heavy mixed horde (bunch of dreg ragers, maulers etc)
I def notice things dying to my poison as i stack it attacking into the mixed hordes, and it FEELS like it improves my kill times and # of swings to get downs and thin things out with devils claw

but i could see it in practice not being good

[flat mist]

It's just a cool idea I think, like, I want to feel it. Just like I want to feel bleed on crit.

[jaunty coral]

either way, i was just posting some crusher TTK's without hammerblow + skullcrusher. Its a cool blessing combo, but is that improved crusher TTK @main trellis was posting worth making you worse into everything else? (it may be! im just asking the question)

Especially on hivescum where you can sort of get around your devil claw armor problem with rending on your abilities + parries

[flat mist]

What do you normally run on DC

[jaunty coral]

the ttk without those blessings on crushers i just posted didnt seem that much worse to me

[jaunty coral]

shred + wrath

idk if its best

just what ive been doing in h40 when i use it

[flat mist]

Fair

[jaunty coral]

my thinking may not be correct here

[flat mist]

The argument could be that HV + HC + rampage lets you kill the smaller stuff quickly enough anyway that the armour busting is worth

But idk

[jaunty coral]

but i saw his crusher ttk with hammerblow + skullcrusher, and while thats a cool idea i felt i could get close to it without those blessings knowing how it feels to kill them with my wrath+shred and rending stimm build

[jaunty coral]

ya maybe!

its an interesting idea

my worry is without shred/wrath tho your crit will be lower and inconsistant, and the cleave in h40 higher mob density will be noticeably worse

i also notice running wrath, the cleave crits applying chem toxin to more targets (again, idk if its good, but i do notice it)

[flat mist]

Im a glutton for crit

[main trellis]

i played that build in h40 numerous times

[main trellis]

wrath not needed cause rampage gives enough + shred benefits only you while SC benefits your team too when enemies get staggered (especially for bosses)

[unique dagger]

Listen to this man's advice

[main trellis]

its not worse into everything as a matter of fact cause the sheer amount of crits & hyper critical with stimm/rampage ability active or both covers that; hammerblow even makes it easier cause ragers get staggered quicker

[unique dagger]

On the topic of wrath you also can achieve a very easy %50 cleave from kill talent and another %50 from rampage

Wrath becomes overkill especially on scummy

[main trellis]

i would not take cleave talents outside rampage; don;t forget in not only 50% cleave but also power & that is also cleave

if shivs on rampage do not need those it says everything you need to know

[main trellis]

in general thats best for general use
but since Dclaw has tech usage like parry & SC aplication it depends on what build you use it on

[main trellis]

try this with mk4; its better

mk7 is overrated

[zinc mirage]

I just realized with crit investment and desperado + desperado rending + stim with atk speed and rending I can kill a crusher in 2 sec with infantry autogun

[main trellis]

best light spam spd

but not the greatest single combo cause 2 of those attacks are doing poopoo dmg

[jaunty coral]

idk i like me my mk 7 XD let me try the 4

whats the combo on the 4?

[main trellis]

heavy + push att loop
OR
heavy into parry cancel loop (i recommend the first combo)

[jaunty coral]

so you genuinly think skullcrusher + hammerblow is BIS for scum dclaw into h40?
ill have to try it, i feel im going to miss my shred crits....
dropping wrath makes sense tho, but wondering if rampage 50% cleave is enough. And how bad is it gonna feel when rampage is down?

[main trellis]

yes
i tested shred vs SC; dps is very similar but SC benefits your entire team so its better
and yes; the cleave from rampage is enough

[manic wolf]

Funny actually, I wasnt, but due to dropping BM on TacAxe for a different setup, I did end up taking the on-kill cleave just to cover some loss

[main trellis]

you get 50% cleave + 50% power + 25% power ovr 10s

[manic wolf]

SC is one of the strongest blessing in the game tbf

Like just in general

[jaunty coral]

oh mk 7 feels WAY better to me lol. That heavy-push atk combo is clunky, and feels way less safe, it also dumps stamina and you need to spam it to kill a crusher

maybe its a playstyle thing

but im not a fan of that

[main trellis]

NERFS WHEN!?

[jaunty coral]

i could probably practice it a little, but i got hit 3x in a row trying it

[manic wolf]

Nerfs? In Darktide? What are you smoking and where can I buy some?

[main trellis]

watch the vid of mine again; did i went into negatice with stamina? no; of all things its not clunky in the slightest

[main trellis]

thats just inexperience; practice more

[jaunty coral]

idk lol

its not even close

i kill them cleaner and faster with MK 7

[manic wolf]

Guys, the best D-Claw is the Duelling Sword, just sayin

[jaunty coral]

maybe its because im not using the blessings. but on my build - mk 7 H2,L,L feels way more effective

[main trellis]

individuals yes it may be but remember; you will have other threats around you and being able to always have that first heavy overhead at your disposal to deal dmg to crushers is much better than mk7 where you have to use a light att first

[jaunty coral]

let me go put on hammerblow/skullcrusher

[manic wolf]

Regarding MKIV yeah?

[jaunty coral]

ehhhh, i felt LESS safe doing it.
I would get hit doing the push atk and consume a bunch of stamina.
You can run out of stamina (even on 3 crushers I did) and run out of dps and saftey. MK7 takes 0 stamina for what feels like faster or comprable ttk

maybe its a taste/playstyle thing, ill give it a try in a live match perhaps but i feel like you'll have to rip my mk7 out of my cold dead hands xD

[main trellis]

ye i'm taking about mk7 vs mk4

[manic wolf]

Yeah, MKIV is more reliable

[main trellis]

mk1 you just spam lights & you win

[manic wolf]

MKI feels horrendous in my experience ngl

Really dislike that one

[main trellis]

i did not either until HS came back; it has some nice things; of all weapons - Dclaw marks, all of them, are viable & bring different things to the table
smth we need for many other weapons in this game

[manic wolf]

Oh Im not debating its viability, just that I don't like how it plays, if i wanted to mash LMB into stuff, I'm playing Chainsword

But yeah, there are a lot of useless marks within weapon catagories

[main trellis]

ye ngl my finger was being used like a red district woman on weekend

[manic wolf]

It ended up smelling like a fishmarket?

[main trellis]

nah; just felt like it
sore

[rotund agate]

what weapon type are you referring to? dclaw or something else?

[main trellis]

this is auric cause i don't have havoc mod instaled but this shows why mk4 > mk7
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/16473204584811415663/D3387A9859236E1FE1F5428186BF6E214F971AFA/

[main trellis]

Dclaw

[rotund agate]

I haven't used Dclaw on anyone except psyker, and even then as purely horde clear...

[main trellis]

on HS IT JUST WORKS

[sturdy linden]

Is there any melee weapon scum can't crack out

[rotund agate]

alright, might give it a shot now as soon as I roll a decent one and learn whether mobility is the dump stat or not (I dislike moving super slowly tho, so might take a 70 mobility Dclaw on purpose)

[main trellis]

Cleave Damage is dump for it

[rotund agate]

didn't know that, so my psyker's Dclaw has had 65 mobility on it...

[manic wolf]

Even Scum can't save the Crowbar, despite him being the only one who gets to use it

[sturdy linden]

[main trellis]

well about that...

[sturdy linden]

Good one

I mean you can make the crowbar work still

Just don't go alt mode and accept the fact that it's basically inferior ASM

[manic wolf]

Yes I know, you can mash M1 with blunt mode, but it still falls far flat compared to anything else he gets

As horrible as the Bonesaw is to play, even that is better

[sturdy linden]

Bonesaw my beloved

Big choppah

[manic wolf]

I'll wind up my second swing in 6 months time and maybe kill this Rager type energy on that

[main trellis]

i would say push att into heavy is better especially if you use take a swing blessing

[sturdy linden]

Pfft just poison everything and dance around in your clown shoes while they all die

Honk honk

[manic wolf]

Eh, maybe, but half of its moveset being worthless when it has the potential to be solid vs everything is just a let-down

[main trellis]

Yeah about that...
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/13378700983304429975/D2BA4378F3328E6A087889D73A592BAE1D73207D/

[main trellis]

Att spd mitigates mediocre moveset

[sturdy linden]

Oh I know, but throw a few poxwalkers in there and it sucks so hard because there's no latch priority

[main trellis]

aim your weapon highier

ez

[manic wolf]

It's all well and good in an isolated environment, but the issues occur when you try to use the beak into a mixed horde. If it prioritised elites and specials in that mode, it wouldnt be the strongest weapon Scum has, but it would be very flexible. Currently it is very inflexible

Thats all it needs, I wouldnt bump the stats on it, just give it latch priority

You trade power for flexibility, which is a very fair tradeoff

As it stands, what reason is there to take Crowbar over, well, literally anything else

[tardy cedar]

This is why I love Crowbar

[sturdy linden]

The guaranteed stagger is REALLY cool when you get the opportunity to effectively use it

[main trellis]

its the same story with uppercut strikedowns like on mk4 taxe; you need to aim your cursor highier so you can hit that weakspot other wise the hitbox hits the body
in terms of crowbar is to avoid lil bois taking the hit (which vs ogryns is not hard, not even maulers cause they are taller; only like ragers are tougher cause same lv as poxers)

[main trellis]

and you can; all you have to do is learn the behavior of the enemy & seize opportunities as they arrive; takes time & practice

[manic wolf]

It's not remotely the same tbh, TAxe has good headshot priority, so there is very little manuvering the weapon around at any point and you certainly don't run into scenarios where it neuters the weapon, which can very easily happen with the Crowbar

[main trellis]

FUN

[manic wolf]

I mean sure? But having your effectiveness slowed to a standstill because of an obtuse design decision is not particularly fun in my book. If you're capable of playing well, that should be the end of it, you shouldnt get randomly cucked by a poor design decision

[gilded ledge]

Speaking of tac axe. Whats the blessings on melee scum? Brutal Momentum and Shred? Mk 7? My TTK on crushers doesnt look anything like these.

[main trellis]

The only change i would put into crowbar is to give it Hammerblow or Trauma or any kind of impact blessing; its a consussive weapon...

[manic wolf]

Most people use Headtaker and Brutal Momentum

I'm not sold on that actually being optimal for Scum at this point, but hey ho

[main trellis]

i played with Cbar & ngl i did not felt like i was being slowed or circumsized cause of how it works

it has 1 glaring weakness; unyielding, especially bulwarks

its the same story with flip shovels from vet; they just suck vs them

and thats ok

[manic wolf]

I intensely dislike how the latch mechanic works in beak mode, its a problem on other latching weapons, but because they tend towards only being on a few attacks, its much less egregious, it just feels bad on Crowbar imo

Also, why can we not swap mode inbetween swings in a more fluid manner. Thats also kinda rough

I could roll a Crowbar IRL whilst winding up a swing to change which bit of it would land first, but that seems to be overly complex for Scummer

[main trellis]

the talk about optimal is... getting more stale as my yellow cheese in the fridge (and it does not stink); if it works & is effective & its fun AND can prove some bozos who think that unoptimal stuff is not worth their time that it is... then its a W for me
and overall variety of this game

[manic wolf]

I mean... you cant exactly say that Headtaker/BM is some super-niche thing that noone uses and thinks is bad dude lul

In fact, I guarantee what im running on it is the niche example 😄

[main trellis]

ofc not! Never would; its about crowbar here

[manic wolf]

It's not about the crowbar being optimal, its about it being fun to play in the first place. For me, it's not because it feels half-arsed and like they didn't really think about how it works in gameplay terms

[main trellis]

i personally dont use Bruhmentum; i use agile instead (maybe even together with Bruhmentum? more weakspot dmg & still get the cleave? 🤔 )

[manic wolf]

SlaughterSpree/Decimator for me

[main trellis]

yeah thats fair; its a preference

[manic wolf]

Massive Hyperviolence procs go brr

[main trellis]

that sounds interresting

[manic wolf]

Don't have the mod for Havoc Psyk, but you can one shot Auric Crushers using that setup

Ofc you do risk dropping stacks on occasion on whiffs, because Decimator, but you'd have to miss like 20% of your overall swings to lose out to Headtaker over the course of a mission, an like... yeah its hard to fuck up that often

[low harbor]

I think it's ok atm

it needs higher talent investment than smth like rashad which makes it not as good
but it's pretty good with full melee spec as a weapon that can both cleave mixed horde & kill carapace on its own

[manic wolf]

In terms of numbers its fine, it just doesnt feel good by my estimations, theres nothing wrong with it statistically, just the mechanics its behelden to

[low harbor]

I'm also not sure if can opener / opportunist still the way to go for it

[manic wolf]

Can Opener/Superiority is what i'd pick for it tbh

[low harbor]

I thought about that
but u can actually just 2 hit crushers with rampage rending, without using beak mode

[main trellis]

i tested Oppy vs Can; Can wins on average cause its easier to apply; If Cbar had Hammerblow then Oppy would be better

[low harbor]

at that point do u rly need can opener (which needs beak mode to use, and beak adds extra risk in mixed horde)

[low harbor]

I'm thinking ditching both at this point

[manic wolf]

idk what else you'd take in its place. TaS I guess

[main trellis]

i ditched them & had way wors etime vs maulers & crushers cause carapace

[main trellis]

i use TaS & Can

[low harbor]

did u also have rampage rending

[main trellis]

yes

[low harbor]

it shouldn't be a big difference then

rampage rending H1 smiter hits for like 4k on carapace weakspot crit

[main trellis]

don't forget tho its a stimm; its not always available
Can allows you to soften them up if you cannot engage with a heavy cause light lacthes are very fast and since its a double hit its 20% brittle immediately

• its for your team

[low harbor]

uh

rampage is not stim?

[main trellis]

ah sorry; i keep getting confused

[sturdy linden]

IMO Opp + Superiority are the most reliable blessings for that weapon

No switching needed, easy to get the bonuses

[flat mist]

Do you actually not understand papa interpreted it as rampage + rending stimm?

[low harbor]

no

[flat mist]

Rip

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[main trellis]

i am sick

[flat mist]

Tism guide guy so checks out

[main trellis]

i mean less sick but still sick

[manic wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/stickergiant-sick-dope-nailed-it-crushed-it-gif-24960083

[livid raven]

Gordon would be ashamed of this crowbar

[manic wolf]

Real

[astral canyon]

which gordon

[livid raven]

The good one

[main trellis]

for heavies no
for lights yes and since not always you will be able to safely utilise the heavy due to latch mechanic spamming lights with can is very viable too; does surprisingly good dmg

[sturdy linden]

The one who is free

[astral canyon]

free these nuts

[sturdy linden]

[low harbor]

I'm actually thinking of TaS + superiority atm

[sturdy linden]

Eh

[astral canyon]

what does its finesse modifiers look like for weakspot?

[sturdy linden]

I guess

[sturdy linden]

~1.4-2x

[low harbor]

finesse 1.2
so weakspot is ~0.72

[astral canyon]

how good is that

[low harbor]

this doesn't sound like a lot but 1.2 finesse is pretty good for a smiter attack that also cleaves

[sturdy linden]

I guess Opportunist isn't as good now with the rending change on Rampage

[low harbor]

what 1.2 finesse means is that ur crit-weakspot does (1+1.2) = 220% dmg

weakspot would be (1+1.2x0.6) = 172% dmg

[astral canyon]

and how much would that be with TaS

[main trellis]

enough to be one of the best blessing for it considering the rest of the choices

[low harbor]

crit-weakspot 292%
weakspot 215.2%

for H1 smiter

which push atk chains into

idk this seems way more generally useful than can opener to me

[main trellis]

can execute 2 heavies in flip mode for the bonus before it vanishes

[low harbor]

and it's not like it doesn't work for beak mode (it does)

[low harbor]

also sweet spot has +25% weakspot dmg
so the actual result would be like 322% crit-weakspot and 233.2% weakspot
and remember that this is entirely separate from +dmg and +str

[astral canyon]

does beak have the same finesse modifiers or are they different

[low harbor]

prob diff, didn't look at crowbar code yet

[astral canyon]

browcar

[main trellis]

Bruhbar

[astral canyon]

🤨 🚙

[low harbor]

did someone ping me

[astral canyon]

yes

[flat mist]

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/56N3LY

its conclusive

first ping was an errant link

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/KBomOE

[astral canyon]

you caught a wallop there.

[obsidian sand]

Interesting name

[zenith fern]

There are four names smh

[split lagoon]

Just came back after a long week out and saw they've buffed the hscum? Anything important I should know? Or just more dmg and more toughness reduction?

[zenith fern]

They made rampage too easy now

[obsidian sand]

Three somewhat normal names

[split lagoon]

damn

Anything about adrenaline frenzy?

[zenith fern]

Still the same

Also left top branch of stimm is now toughness replenishment

[manic wolf]

The stim change was a good one because it was kinda useless before, but the Rampage buffs were not so good

Or not healthy I should say

[flat mist]

@low harbor another one in mission

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/a2RZ4m

almost seems like Kuli was right the whole time

[zenith fern]

I might even start using toughness stimm for rampage builds

[split lagoon]

Interesting

[manic wolf]

What the fuck am i witnessing

[flat mist]

has been in his guide for a long time that vultures doesnt give melee immunity

[manic wolf]

Its dodge state isnt it?

[flat mist]

me correcting misinfo about vultures dodge

[split lagoon]

Any build to try all these changes? Or just play the old rampage + chemical dependency + strenght stimm

[flat mist]

yes and for melee that is tracking

like slippery customer

[manic wolf]

As above, its just generic dodge state isnt it? IE; it depends on movement

[flat mist]

its not i-frames

[manic wolf]

Yeah

Who said it was i-frames?

[flat mist]

Path thought it was

[manic wolf]

Ah fair enough, yeah it most certainly is not

[manic wolf]

Even as dodge state though, its still kinda busted

[flat mist]

For sure

EE on steroids

[manic wolf]

Literally

[flat mist]

Slippery customer also goated by implication and imo

[manic wolf]

There is very little on this class im shocked made it into the live game, but thats certainly one of them

[flat mist]

well goated is a bit far

[manic wolf]

Slippery customer is less broken, its still strong, but it hinges a lot more on positioning. Like I kinda dig how that works, but VD is just far too avaliable to the point its basically free

[flat mist]

Slippery customer gives you incredible freedom in terms of position aswell though

as long as you have a relatively small space to slide enemies will mostly just miss you

[low harbor]

no?

[flat mist]

not comparing it to VD, i just dig the mechanic

[low harbor]

dodge has never been i-frame

[manic wolf]

Yeah, which is a good thing for a class that mostly lives or dies by its mobility, its not a "shoot gun for psuedo invulnerability provided you dont stand still" though

[dire badge]

I like rampage adrenaline and cd recovery stim

[flat mist]

what

[low harbor]

I never once said dodge was i-frame?

[flat mist]

ok sorry

[low harbor]

did u confuse me with someone else

[flat mist]

you defended that it gave immunity to non-overhead melee attacks

i misspoke

[dire badge]

Wait normal dodges do have I frames right? I manage to avoid beast of nurgle body wag with it sometimes

[split lagoon]

Hmmm pocket toxin worth now? Are blackout nades worth too?

[low harbor]

no? I just pointed out the clip u posted last night had a dodge sound play

[zenith fern]

oomf, blinders were always good

[flat mist]

bro dont even haha

u did backflips to avoid conceding that i was getting hit with it up

[manic wolf]

Pocket Toxin has always been worth taking, but only was, and still is, only worth with Blackouts, and Blackouts are goated regardless of if you take it or not

[low harbor]

what

[split lagoon]

I mean over chem grenade, love blackout nades

[zenith fern]

Everytime I use chems I just wish I was using blinders instead

With pocket toxin

[manic wolf]

Chem grenades are only good in a defensive capacity and just double up on what Scum is already good at, IE; killing lots of things in a small area

[split lagoon]

Does it matter now if the enemies die because the toxin? I remember it was the reason I stopped using them, I think... Not sure

[manic wolf]

Their utility is uhh.. lacking compared to the other options

[low harbor]

@flat mist when did I do backflips to avoid conceding lol

[low harbor]

isn't this what u concluded yourself

[manic wolf]

It impacts how fast you get them back, but thats not hugely noticable even in Auric. Pocket Tox kills dont count towards the total for the regeneration

[low harbor]

which, tracking being disabled is supposed to be what dodge state does, no?

[flat mist]

yes, so it doesnt give immunity to melee...

which is what the discussion was about

[low harbor]

yea it was always dodge state

there're only 2? 3? cases of dmg immunity

I think u just misinterpreted what I said lol

[flat mist]

Yes i clearly did

[manic wolf]

BTL, Desperado and what else?

[low harbor]

desperado is not dmg immunity iirc, also dodge state

dmg immunity is FotF, BTL and indomitable?

only during dash action

[manic wolf]

So permanent dodge state, but only vs ranged? Interesting

[flat mist]

but generally in conversation my interpretation would be correct, because when you directly disagree with someone taking a side in a debate over something so objectively true/untrue, you're tacitly disagreeing with them

[low harbor]

yea just think of it as ghost turned on for 20+X seconds

[manic wolf]

An yeah didnt think about Indomitable/FotF, that makes sense

[flat mist]

communication instead of drooling cat memes maybe

[low harbor]

man I was just saying that a dodge sound played it's not that serious, I don't have a side here

[flat mist]

just advice man, youre right it aint serious

[manic wolf]

Yeah no it makes sense, though it might aswell be immunity given the nature of it

At least in practical terms

[low harbor]

functionally it is yea

[split lagoon]

What stimm combo are you using now with the toughness changes btw?

[low harbor]

kinda same as before lol

for stim crate u could prob run the toughness route over speed

[split lagoon]

Using rampage + chemical dependency atm

and full strenght, rending

[zenith fern]

Dude the enchanced penance is so much easier, i only played like 3 missions and i am already 1770/2600

[limber cradle]

My dumbass grinding that out on like day 3 of scum drop

[pallid quail]

not indomitable

[low harbor]

I forgor

lemme check

ok yea no, indomitable doesn't

[fierce aurora]

Joining the Kasrkin gang

Sign up today.

[manic wolf]

No 😄

[fierce aurora]

Too bad, its a press gang sign up deal.

No escape

[manic wolf]

I'll escape by selling the recruiter to the Water Cartel

[astral canyon]

Oh hey the legs are prosthetics

Neato

[zenith fern]

Thats from a different set

[astral canyon]

Nvm then

[fallen void]

is there any build to make dual stubs good

[astral canyon]

I use them as sidearms on melee chem dep builds

Since they really appreciate the crit chance from it

Also take in your face at the start of the tree

[bronze glade]

I hate stubpis

[fallen void]

i love stubs thats why i want to make them good

[bronze glade]

You can’t

[sturdy linden]

Everybody hating on the Saw when it's the stubs that are the shittiest scum exclusive

[jaunty spire]

With stubs you can style on enemies, therefore they aren't shit

[sturdy linden]

Scummer: stylishly spins pistols and perfectly times the fire button to headshot a bomber off in the distance
Mauler:

https://tenor.com/view/anthony-joshua-jake-paul-boxing-knockout-knocked-out-gif-1477458793406776741

[manic wolf]

Just shoot it in the body

StubPistols are decent enough, not meta, not dogshit, they're just reliable, decent weapons that sit in the middle of the pack

[low harbor]

I think they're ok, can use small buff tho

[mighty belfry]

Spin shot needs a major touch up and the capacity could be higher

But I don't think stubs are really that bad

[manic wolf]

With the increased mag size perk, you end up with an odd number of shots, meaning one gun has less bullets in it than the other.

Literally unplayable

[calm aurora]

@main trellis do you think I should put unarmored on the dclaw to juice hv?

[main trellis]

nah; not needed; crit & cara for faster clear on those maulers & crushers

[calm aurora]

i put flak and cara before

or flak and crit

[main trellis]

also; i don't use HV on Dclaw

only HC

[calm aurora]

you took the crit aura?

[main trellis]

ofc

its a crit weapon

[limber cradle]

Stubs are my favorite scum ranged

Not cause I think they're the best

But because I find them to be by far the most fun

[mighty belfry]

Dclaw isn't really the best choice for HV

Only time you're getting any meaningful overkill damage is with heavies and parries which makes it too inconsistent to get much mileage out of HV

Heavy sword is better if you're looking to juice up a really good horde clear/control weapon with it.

[manic wolf]

Dclaw is about the only thing you can't really leverage HV on

Actually I can imagine Bonesaw is probably pretty bad for it because its sluggish as all fuck, but apart from those two things

[calm aurora]

Yeah reading hv again it looks like it's not a goot fit

[rotund agate]

but what about Coated Weapon + Mania?

[pulsar aspen]

Abhor the Witch, destroy the Witch!

[mighty belfry]

It's probably even worse because the main damaging thing about Saw isn't even the actual melee damage of the weapon but the DoTs.

It needs the actual weapon to do a lot of damage

I haven't tried it myself but thats just an inference based on my experience with the Saw

That being said.

Hypercrit isn't a bad choice for it at all.

[pseudo latch]

holy goodness

really warming up to uzi scum

[bronze glade]

Another one has fallen to the seductive whispers of desperado

[mighty belfry]

It's very good.

[muted pivot]

Getting tempted to swap my rampage shivs build to chem dependency

What stimm would we use with it? Pure CDR?

[brittle sierra]

Explosive Bistol be apon thee

[low harbor]

Rampage usually runs either 15-point CD route (with +25% CD rate at the end) or additionally with 3 more points into speed (for 6s slower stim recharge)

[astral canyon]

you can also run the strength finesse nodes

[muted pivot]

I kinda like the idea of just pure critmaxxing it too

Finesse values being so high benefits finesse damage as much as it does crit rate

[pseudo latch]

if (or when) they nerf pick pocket i hope they give something equally as strong to desperado

[floral galleon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/681264624707960861/1471656509741076733/image.png?ex=698fba6d&is=698e68ed&hm=18a62f64c477dee1d7719448eaa20c3feac3121d78abd656cf1563384be3e06b&

[mighty belfry]

Finesse stimms with shivs I'm pretty sure will give the best returns in pure damage output

It's significant enough that I don't even run uncanny with Rampage shivs

[zenith pagoda]

I use maxed out strength tree stim rampage shivs

1 shots muties with light attacks

[muted pivot]

Yeah I dropped Uncanny too just now

Taking flesh tearer but might go Precog

It's just that awful 2s duration

Riposte is so hilariously much better

[mighty belfry]

Flesh tearer is really not that good.

Riposte + precog or executor are my personal preferences.

[muted pivot]

I was considering Executor too

[mighty belfry]

Only time I'd consider flesh tearer is with uncanny to make shivs counter Rotten Armor a little better but otherwise, you're better off with anything else.

Also, to clarify.

Yes precog is two seconds when activated

But the benefits will last longer than that two seconds assuming you run Hyper-Violence

[zenith pagoda]

Bruh

[mighty belfry]

A stabby shiv heavy that crits with precog active will pretty much nuke anything that isn't an ogryn with a ton of overkill that can be ramped up more and more.

[muted pivot]

That is a fair point

[mighty belfry]

Ima be real

I don't think Taunt's that good.

I don't think a fair chunk of these are really like

The best at this point actually.

[zenith pagoda]

A taunt spam ogryn in h40 makes the game so much easier

So as a team ability I would say it's the best

[mighty belfry]

Or they get the team killed.

I have seen it.

Numerous times.

It is completely dependent on who's using it and if they can handle taunt while being mindful of their teammates.

They can either make the game a breeze or they can severely snowball the game by moving into the team while taunting and getting someone swiped by an overhead they can't avoid or a poxburster they can't push because it's taunted and the ogryn has to push it.

[zenith pagoda]

Tbh the ogryns I find in h40 seem to generally be the better players

[mighty belfry]

I don't like abilities that fuck with enemy AI like that specifically for those reasons.

[limber cradle]

The ogryns I've found in havoc are all toxic and normally kinda dumb ime, anecdotal tho.

[zenith pagoda]

Nah invis abilities are the annoying ones lol

[limber cradle]

No other class gets on mic to scream at people at consistently.

[mighty belfry]

Invisibility ults can be annoying but they can also be game changing

Just like taunt.

That's why I can't comfortably call it the best ability.

There's an uncontrollable risk associated with it.

And that risk can be catastrophic.

[limber cradle]

Tbh out of that list I'm probably also picking vet shout simply cause its impossible to fuck up

You can give anyone vet shout and they will provide value with it at some point

[zenith pagoda]

I would say book is better than shout

[limber cradle]

You are allowed to hold that opinion.

[zenith pagoda]

VoC spam was busted before the CD talent nerf

One game I managed to get +300 gold toughness

[low harbor]

highest ceiling but obv lower floor than smth like VoC
of these 4 abilities tho taunt is prob the best one tho, followed by VoC

[pseudo latch]

managed to get my first 1mil damage scoreboard on uzi scum

[mighty belfry]

It's more as a comparison to everything else in the game tbh

[sturdy linden]

FT damage contribution is kinda shit even if you're critmaxxing

[low harbor]

yea taunt is still S++ tier compared to everything else in the game

it's the easiest way to manipulate slots as a frontliner

[mighty belfry]

Honestly I just think trying to rate an ability at all is a fruitless endeavor as a tier.

[mighty belfry]

Which is also why it can be a problem.

The issue honestly.

I think the game state has made certain things a lot harder to use effectively in general.

Cuz taunt was basically like

The number 1 ability for area control.

[low harbor]

I think the num1 area control ult is still indomitable tbh

[mighty belfry]

But nowadays my opinion on that has changed not because the abilities changed but because the game being as inconsistent as it can be now makes abilities that screw with enemy AI a lot more finicky than they used to be.

I honestly wish ogryns ran Indomitable more

[astral canyon]

Indomitable fun

Just wish the speed buff lasted slightly longer than just 5 seconds

Like at least 8 seconds would be nice

[zenith fern]

Golden toughness gazers

[quaint field]

ok i haven't played since early dec, has there been any notable fixes or improvements slash nerfs

[brittle sierra]

So first time playing since 1 month ago

I get on a simple havoc 22

To warm up

25 downs

good to be back

[flat mist]

Yes

Check patch notes from a few days ago

[quaint field]

noted, will do so shortly

[steep vale]

2 snipers with 1 bullet

[neat delta]

can't wait for fs to add boltgun to scum

🙏

[supple torrent]

Best we can do is bolt

[neat delta]

PLEASE GOD.

PLEEEEASASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[calm aurora]

So I played with it yesterday. Did a duo too. The dmg was solid and the bosses were trivialized.

[zenith fern]

going bonkers for crowbar

[nova valley]

Crowbar 4 the win

[zenith fern]

crowbar slaughter
Max speed stimm for crowbar is hilarious

[dire badge]

I like my fent knives

FentChoppa chops

[river skiff]

I have been having a blast with hive scum but they went a lil too far with it so while it's fun it's not good for the overall health of the game as everything has to be balanced around meta builds so classes or builds that aren't meta are encountering BS that's simply not meant for them which already is affecting other peope

[mental trellis]

psyker doiesnt need a nerf. Flame staff does

[balmy radish]

throws duelling sword and Plasma gun in aswell for good measure

[mental trellis]

DS already got nerfed. idk why they gave it a parry though lmao

[balmy radish]

cause it should represent the fine art of duelling of course they give it a parry

[main wagon]

The old DS utilized the art of [parries by stabbing you in the fuggen face]

[main trellis]

I like making good shit
Want a talent tree with weapon builds for it? I’m curious if you went 100% with what i went with

[nova valley]

Everyone on every blog/post/forums knows what is best for the game. That is the problem. One's experience is brought up as an absolute truth, regardless of what the data suggests. The result is that you got groups of people screaming for a nerf and groups of ppl screaming for a buff

I agree that some things require nerfs obviously, like pickpocket or some psyker playstyles. However, personally, I would find it equally frustrating to not play because of a smyker, a desperado but also a zooming shivs-maniac deleting anything that it touches

[foggy phoenix]

Why is bro replying to a message over a day and a half old 👀

[nova valley]

Cause I was sleeping 😴

So now that I SHOULD be working, I am catching up

[zinc mirage]

what weapons do you guys prefer to attack all the bosses with

[raven matrix]

I go back on a chat that’s weeks old and reply to older messages than that.

[livid raven]

iag

[flat mist]

i box them (knife special)

[zinc mirage]

interesting

[zinc mirage]

what does iag mean

[livid raven]

infantry autogun

[zinc mirage]

oh nice

[lime wedge]

question. does the hivescum get the cartel special effect from medpack or cartel special medpack only affect allies except scum?

[nova valley]

If you use the medpack when your Cartel Special is ready, everyone can enjoy!

Due to a bug, you could also get it twice from cartel special and then medpack (dunno if it was fixed or not now)

[lime wedge]

oki thx!

in my head if i use the medpack i dont get the duration of cartel special and begins the cd which is nice

[nova valley]

Sorry, I don't get what you are saying

[lime wedge]

umm

[fallen void]

i think we should buff dual stub pistols

[lime wedge]

when i use the cartel special. it activated and only cooldown after the effect runs out

but if i use medpack. the cartel special begins the cooldown immedietly

idk if its just mod or i miss something here

[fallen void]

i think thats supposed to happen?

[lime wedge]

no idea

what i think using medpack means faster cd on the cartel special rather than using it directly cmiiw

[fallen void]

yeah thats the point of the crack box

you're also giving it to the team

[lime wedge]

aight

[exotic temple]

As a side arm it is ok. I wish they’d add a mark that works better as a main weapon for desperado.

[lime wedge]

crowbar should be buffed

heh

[livid raven]

it exists already, it's the DAP mark

[fallen void]

this is true

like

[livid raven]

is crowbar the worst weapon in the game

it gotta be down there right?

[fallen void]

a weapon that switches stances to deal with different enemy types is an amazing concept with this games melee system

but in practice its just SO ASSSSS

auhg

[livid raven]

i think it's an awful concept that just makes it the opposite of versatile

if you gotta have go through a special press just to change target

makes you pretty unflexible

[upbeat gyro]

Can you briefly explain what makes it good? I honestly have never played taunt, or should i go read ogrynomicon for it?

[livid raven]

well, taunt briefly staggers every enemy it hits

and there are two more taunt waves after the ability use

[calm aurora]

Yeah almost 100% I think.

I used cheapshots tho

[main trellis]

oh you did not meant the psyker build?

[high mirage]

I was on the fence about buying hive scum but I'm really glad I did

Very fun, fast

Packs a punch but gets punched hard as well

[main trellis]

i don't use cheapshot for my Dclaw HS

there are other more important talents to take

[calm aurora]

Hmmmm

[zenith pagoda]

Basically you can control where everything goes

And your other teammates can just focus on doing damage

Also on the ogryn side, you can get up to +50% toughness per second

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah ill have to try the tauntgryn sometime, first gonna farm havoc black armor set

[manic wolf]

Has anyone got any experience testing the new Cheap Shots yet?

15% damage on small stagger, when most weapons are at least capable of that sounds like it has at least some potential

[main trellis]

10% on small; 15% on medium & heavy

[main trellis]

imo the bonus dmg got expanded and thats good but the dmg increase is not high enough to be considered in majority of the weapons it can be used on effectively (not to mention HS is not a stagger class so that does not help it; its like that dmg vs suppressed enemies talent for arby that nobody uses realistically)
basically; a very good pick for;
Crowbar
Chainswords
Chainaxes
Bonesaw
thats is

[tranquil fjord]

is it good for any guns?

[main trellis]

good for more explosive mark of the bolt pistol build gimmick & shredder autopistol cause it gives the most stagger
rest don't matter in contrast to other talents that can be picked instead

[tranquil fjord]

ah

yeah

maybe.. the combat shotgun?

[main trellis]

ah ye those too give nice stagger yes; especially accatran

but it all depeneds how tight your build already is in talent points & is it worth to take those to begin with
(i use it with crowbar & accatran prototype build... i hope to test it soon... as the internet decides not to be dogshit)

[tranquil fjord]

how does cheap shot work with no respite

probably well

[main trellis]

they both work on staggered enemies so ye

[kindred bear]

Tertium nobility watching a poxburster corpse flying mach 8 towards the top levels before plummeting back down to form a crater in the planet

[manic wolf]

I was considering it for TacAxe personally. You stagger small trash with that very easily, which means you're funnelling alot of damage into HV

[main trellis]

every little bit helps

i was more looking into bigger numbers hence crowbar & chain weapons were pointed out as great to utilize those

but ye; can work for any weapon, even explosions

as long as it staggers

[tardy cedar]

Papa what's your gamelantern address?

[main trellis]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/user/papawilly
i have more builds but no footage; until i get perfect footage of builds i write & publicate guides for them (i need to write 2 guides still for 2 publicated builds already)

[pulsar aspen]

@main trellis That face

[nova valley]

That was hilarious

[exotic temple]

not good enough I want my dual deagles

[livid raven]

yeah but by its nature, i don't think you could make a dual stub for desperado

[astral canyon]

Best buff to dual stubs would be giving it point blank blessing

[manic wolf]

Yeah you can

Pinning/Speedload

[livid raven]

no i can't actually

[manic wolf]

Its not stupid like DAPs, IAG or Shredder, but its servicable

[bronze glade]

yeah it works

shows you how busted desperado is lol

[brittle sierra]

Needle Desperado build when? 😈

[manic wolf]

Honestly the only fun I can have with Desperado is with Stubs

An even then it feels cheesy as fuck

[jaunty coral]

why run tactical reload over volley adept on the bolter build?

personally, i would MUCH rather have 30% reload after elite/spec kill, than have to constantly leave an ammo in my mag when i reload for a 25% buff

[main trellis]

Cause its better in every scenario

[jaunty coral]

one just happens, one requires you to change your play and is annoying (and 5% less)

[jaunty coral]

gonna HARD disagree there lol

but its a 1 point swap, ill try the build

but im 100% swapping that node lol

[main trellis]

Read the guide; its described there why volley is worse choice than tactical

[jaunty coral]

im also torn on if running the shovel without the 10% attack speed and no weapon specialist will feel good

[main trellis]

Then the build will be worse in situations which are described in the guide

[jaunty coral]

ill have to read it, at work so may need some time to look closer. I cannot think of any reason why it would be better tho, preference - maybe. But i would be swapping that node 10/10 times lol

[main trellis]

Yeah; don’t run into conclusions before you read first & watch the vid attached

[jaunty coral]

having to stop and think about not spending your last ammo to get the buff, AND its 5% less, is awful IMO.

killing an elite or special is so easy, it has basically 100% uptime in havoc

is this for h40?

just curious

[main trellis]

I don’t think; its a muscle memory - volley is easier as i typed in the build but worse in comparrison
Seen games where bois had it & were not able to do the job

[main trellis]

All of them are

I don’t make auric only or havoc only builds; if it can beat havoc 40 easily it can kill the rest of the diffs

[jaunty coral]

ive never once had any problem activating volley in all my years using the talent in darktide, and ive ALWAYS refused to take the 'reload speed on bullets left" talent since its been a thing (i think it may have even been around pre-class rework? been a while unsure)

I dont think leaving a bullet in the chamber is very easy to lock into 'muscle memory' its fractions of a second difference of pulling off the trigger, its a VERY annoying mental weight to think about just to get a 25% reload speed buff which is 5% slower than the other.

aware you're a good player, and its ok for people to have different opinions on these things, this is a little more grey-area IMO than hard numbers like crit chance, or dmg values.

but to me, it would have to be a STRONGER reload speed buff to even CONSIDER adding "leaving ammo in my gun" to my mental stack. That is just an un-fun and annoying mechanic.

I wouldn't consider taking it unless the reload speed buff was 40% or more

[main trellis]

It does not require 10% att spd nor WS at all; only serrated blade

[rotund agate]

btw, now that Nimble is (according the Fatshark) worse at dodging melee attacks than before, should I take it off on melee builds that use crappy-dodge weapons like Chaxe?

[astral canyon]

No

[jaunty coral]

ya, i always run my shovel with the 10% as. maybe i just need to try it without, will do so

[main trellis]

Learn the moveset & spacing & you’ll see it is not required

[jaunty coral]

its still better than no nimble, it just now adds a flat amount, rather than scaling with the dodge of the weapon (is how i understood it)

[main trellis]

Everything is in the guide

[jaunty coral]

ya, i havent been using it long. recently picked it up on vet so, ill def give that a shot

[astral canyon]

Its still the best talent in that row from what i remember

[main trellis]

Once you read the guide and the paragraph about tactical reload vs volley adept & play a couple of games with it you should see why i choose it over volley

Take your time & don’t discourage yourself over a lil change

[jaunty coral]

i read it, and i understand the logic. I just still disagree.
There is almost no argument that could convince me to add "leave ammo in my mag" to my mental stack - it is a DEAL breaker of a condition for me

i totally understand the logic, and if it works for you its a cool tech

but i have never had an issue using a shout, or some dodges, or a grenade to make space for a reload, and I very rarely am forced to reload in a hot situation without the elite kill buff

[limber cradle]

There are so many elites in high diffs that I would also take reload speed on kill unless it's a severe pathing break

[jaunty coral]

and i ALWAYS do the animation cancel, too (same on plasma, i dont use auto-reload on WS with plasma bc i feel its not needed when you master the animation cancel)

[main trellis]

Unironically; the only time volley is 100% better than tactical is on 1 weapon;
Double Barrel Shotgun
Cause no mag obviously

[limber cradle]

The only weapon for vet i run reload speed with ammo remaining for is combat shotgun

[jaunty coral]

i could see this, much easier to pace your shots

i mean ya, usually im not dumping on the bolter to be fair

but idk

i just hate the mental stack of thinking about leaving ammo in

ill do you a favor willy, i will try it your way first before i modify that 1 point

and report back tonight xD

[limber cradle]

I also firmly believe that with combat shotguns you reload borderline inbetween shots/kills

[jaunty coral]

oh ya, i do all the time

often im loading 1-3 bullets in only and firing again, based on context

[main trellis]

Sometimes you won’t have those while tac will always be available if you pay attention & don’t go full zealot

[main trellis]

I cancel too

[main trellis]

Zarona revolver too don’t forget

[limber cradle]

I'm not a revolver vet tbh so I do not use it with revo

[jaunty coral]

ya, i totally get the logic. Small play style change = 100% Uptime.
but in my experience, the 90% uptime of the other is 'good enough'
and im not sure, personally, im willing to pay the price of "huge mental stack addition to your build" and -5% speed, to get more uptime

but i DO see your logic

i will try it your way without modifications for a couple matches, and compare

[main trellis]

Do a couple if you please; 1 game hardly represents final result/verdict

[jaunty coral]

its SO much fun when you have a good seed for it.
but i struggle with its ammo consumption in h40. I have to be an ammo goblin on the team to make it work, i wish they would buff its ammo reserves like 10-20% would help a lot

[limber cradle]

Tbh I'm almost exclusively a CShotgun Vet nowadays

Good gun

Does funny things

[jaunty coral]

shovel + double barrel weapon specialist is my favorite build i think

hotswapping every kill to fire the gun is SO much fun

but you CHEW ammo as well on that build in h40 lol

[limber cradle]

I like it but prefer the versatility of CS tbh

[jaunty coral]

i had a guy dead spectating me the other night, and he had to go "omg mamox i have to stop watching you, your hotswapping that quick and that recoil is giving me motion sickness" lmao

bc im like a fucking whirlwind when i play the build

shovel -> push atk or light -> how swap LMB fire -> hotswap push atk or light
you can repeat this into a horde VERY quickly and delete a horde and any elites/specials behind it with manstopper

[main trellis]

Its powerful but i do not trust ppl who use it cause when there will be a threat +20m away they won’t do much againts it

Despite minimum pellet count

[jaunty coral]

ya, its def its weakness

im able to deal with snipers ok due to min pellet count

but there are def times i have to take cover and bunker in

[main trellis]

That sounds like weakness

[jaunty coral]

i usually like to play it when we have someone else with decent range on the team

a psyker with a gun

front liners are running bolt pistols

etc

when you have 1-2 other players good at killing snipers

the build 'unlocks'

[hardy canyon]

also im currently specing out a melee build, well fuly specing out the weapons I had the build before, what would the perks and blessings for a crowbar be
same for needle pistol

[jaunty coral]

and you play kind of like a frontliner with more range

[jaunty coral]

his mind was willing, but his body was weak

sounded like heresy to me

[main trellis]

Also @jaunty coral as for tactical reload; i do fkup sometimes too and i consider myself experienced with this build; i created & perfected it after all

So no worries

[manic wolf]

TR with some guns, Volley with others

I'm not gonna pull my last shot on Boltgun for a marginally faster reload personally tho

[brittle sierra]

Dam I never have tried crowbar before

These blessings look garbage

[jaunty coral]

ya, i figure its impossible to do it correctly 100%, but im sure with some practice its 95%+ for most good h40 players. I just reel at having to add that to my mental stack xD its "annoying" is my best way to describe my dislike lol

not saying its bad, just annoying to have to do play-wise

[main trellis]

Ye not much to look at

[manic wolf]

The lowest possible end of "acceptable" before reaching "this is garbage"

[brittle sierra]

Does Fatshark just enjoy suffering?

[main trellis]

Paul blessing pool looks worse

[jaunty coral]

its a lot of fun, i think its actually pretty good if used well.
but ya, its blessings are...weird. I use the crit on push one and i forget the other lmao

[main trellis]

[manic wolf]

Idek what Paul has these days, lemmie check rq

[main trellis]

Basically; only power surge & SC

[hardy canyon]

so bash

[main trellis]

Rest is… worse than 2 mentioned above

[brittle sierra]

I tried it in the Psykanium once

2 seconds in I switched to my Ogryn and started using Branx Pickaxe for the rest of the night

[manic wolf]

Eh, no looking at them, Crowbar looks worse

Though that is just on blessings, I would expect Crowbar to out-perform Paul tho

(I know, thats not a high bar)

[main trellis]

But then again comparing ogryn weps to other weps is rather… farfetched

[hardy canyon]

im guessing stripped down and run and gun for needle pistol

those both look pretty good

[manic wolf]

Eh, more so with ranged weapons than with melee weapons. Though apparently Paul was reworked and I havent used it since pre-rework so idk how much, if any improvement was to be had

[twilit sleet]

Hivescum dlc worth buying ?

[manic wolf]

Well its more fun than most of the other classes

[hardy canyon]

its very much a preference thing
do you wanna be running around like a crackhead and social distancing yourself from all damage? then yes

okay now I just need to figure out the perks for my needle pistol

[vapid jungle]

Superiority is good the rest are meh. I usually run cap opener.

[twilit sleet]

Well iam a psyker main iam already am trained in the arts of running away. Xd

[manic wolf]

I'd go crit chance and sprint efficiency personally. Not really much reason to use damage perks as you'er not gonna have it in your hand constantly

At least crit chance gives you a modicum of extra stacks over a mission

[hardy canyon]

then you can have a lot of fun with the class
its pretty damn fun over all
not my favorite personally, but very fun

[pallid quail]

its still bad n only like 3 ppl liked it before (however like 5 ppl said its worse now)

[manic wolf]

I figured not much was gonna change

[pallid quail]

yea they shouldve just given it power cycler n haymaker

[vapid jungle]

We don't need another power cycler slave

[pallid quail]

also ur way too generous calling the crowbars blessing acceptable

well paul needed something n a huge cooldown was not it

[near mauve]

power surge is the only thing paul has going for it

[pallid quail]

yea being slaved to that is a million times worse than being slaved to pee cycler

[sturdy linden]

Paul is about okay at best. Desperately needs a better single target pattern and a shorter special CD and better special animation time

Sweeps are good, speed is about par with 3b so not bad

[pallid quail]

n also better blessings

[near mauve]

the special is fine

[pallid quail]

n moveset

[near mauve]

it just needs more dmg

[sturdy linden]

Blessings are alright

[pallid quail]

n cleave

[sturdy linden]

Cleave is alright on heavies

Doesn't struggle with hordes

[pallid quail]

idk how it can be half the speed of the club with half the cleave

[near mauve]

paul's niche is knock everything down with light spam

just needs dmg

[sturdy linden]

It's not though? It's literally the same speed, iirc same amount of cleave too

Actually I think it has more cleave, Papa Willy mentioned it or someone else idr

[sturdy linden]

It just specifically needs a not-dogshit single target combo

L1l2h3 is NOT it bro

It's the opposite of it

[near mauve]

im ngl i just spam lights

on everything

i only use paul when i want to turn my brain off

cookie clicker gaming

[sturdy linden]

Idk if this is a hot take but the post rework Ogryn nerfs and carapace buffs made light spam completely dogshit again IMO

[pallid quail]

dude i think ur brain has been off for a while

[jaunty coral]

most fun class in the game, i think honestly. Or its up there. Very fun, very strong, but squishy and fast.

[near mauve]

how 2 paul

[sturdy linden]

There's like zero benefit to light spam on anything except 2b debuff stick or Branx for anti-carapace

[near mauve]

how did u know habibi

[pallid quail]

always has been. ppl acting like 2 bleeds on light made club op are delusional

[near mauve]

works in aurics

[manic wolf]

I mean... Vet only has 1 stack bleed on melee swings, an thats still a great talent

[sturdy linden]

No right after rework it was good because the attack speed talent was better, the toughness gain on light was crazy good, and yeah 2 bleeds helped

[near mauve]

if i want to use heavies i play picks

or shovels

[sturdy linden]

So back then light spam was actually great

[near mauve]

or literally anything not called paul

[sturdy linden]

And HH was better too

[manic wolf]

What about Dave?

[near mauve]

dave is my g

[sturdy linden]

You could just stand there mashing m1 on 3b and tank the whole game

Which, I admit, was a little obnoxious, but they really went overboard with the nerfs

[near mauve]

the nerfs were a slap on the wrists

now u actually have to use the movesets

[sturdy linden]

Lmao

Sure bud

[near mauve]

it's the truth

[sturdy linden]

If any other class had had as many talents nerfed as post rework Ogryn did, the forums and steam reviews would be on fire.

[near mauve]

tbh they should get the same nerfs

[manic wolf]

I must admit it is kinda funny that Ogryn went from obnoxiously strong to its current state 😄

[near mauve]

would make te game better!

[near mauve]

so obnoxiously strong to obnoxiously strong

[manic wolf]

An yeah no, I concurr, some big nerfs across the board would make the game better

We would have a healthier endgame for one

[near mauve]

i legit cant tell if people are trolling me or not

ogryn is NOT weak

[manic wolf]

Not weak, just not braindead like it used to be

Its still plenty strong

[near mauve]

i think this community just needs to git gud

[manic wolf]

But when people get used to being the immortal, unkillable god with huge DPS, they arent happy when it gets changed

[near mauve]

no u shouldnt be allowed to facetank things with light spam on the class that facetanks everthing anyway, play the game

[sturdy linden]

Pass the drugs mucker, you've had enough

[near mauve]

can never have enough

[pallid quail]

dude old club was cooler anyways

[near mauve]

anyone who doesnt think ogryn is giga strong is simply not ogryining properly

[pallid quail]

having to run unconfident strike light spam on it feels so ass

[manic wolf]

Its kind a bit of both. Ogryn is plenty strong, there is some debate regarding the state of his armoury tho

[near mauve]

i agree with the complaints about the gunlugger stuff

lack of new weapons

but all this complaining about him being weak is so funny to me because ogryn is the easiest class for me to play and do well

you staggerfuck everything in the game from grunts to crushers to bosses

control areas better than anyone

[sturdy linden]

"I do good so class must be good!!!!!"

[near mauve]

yes because im not a good player by any means

good players use him 100x better

[sturdy linden]

If a character is functionally worse on every single metric than every other available character, then regardless of its power in a vacuum, it's bad. Idk why there's so much debate around it.
There's exactly ONE thing Ogryn can do that any other class can't, and that's peeling.

[near mauve]

is he worse in every metric tho

he's maybe not on par with pure dmg but excels in crowd control, stagger, actual tanking and not meme gimmicks ect

also best team anchor by far

[sturdy linden]

Anyway I'm not gonna spend hours debating with delusional people, which is how I classify anyone who plays more than 1 of the other 5 classes and plays Ogryn and still doesn't see the problem.

[manic wolf]

I wouldnt say by every metric, he does excel at things other classes struggle with, but I do think his weapons need some touch-ups because he's being held back a lot in build variety as a result of it

[near mauve]

imagine calling people delusional because they dont think the single best team anchor in the game is bad

while providing 0 arguments

[manic wolf]

I dunno about best team anchor, but a good one

Arb exists after all

Who is basically immortal

[near mauve]

arb doesnt have taunt

[manic wolf]

No, thats true, but Ogryn doesnt have Rebreather and True Grit

[near mauve]

and bullrush does what btl does but on a bigger area

[near mauve]

ogryn's tanky enough tbh

[manic wolf]

Idk, its weird

He's definately tanky

But can still be one-shot by Maulers, Arb cannot

[near mauve]

its because heavyweight activates on crushers but not maulers for some reason lol

it should be both but

[manic wolf]

Yer

[jaunty coral]

nice, i havent used the new paul yet - question on heavies vs lights, how would the sweeping heavies have done here instead, worse?

[sturdy linden]

You're not going to listen anyway, waste of time for both of us. Better that you enjoy playing it and I hope for changes.

[near mauve]

u should be doing heavies if you want to play correctly

[sturdy linden]

Not that deep

[near mauve]

im just saying light spam works against stuff like this

[near mauve]

why would u assume i wont

im not arguing for the sake of arguing lol

but whatever you say habibi

[jaunty coral]

i mean, light spam killed those thigns just fine. I'm all for "do what feels good as long as it dies and you dont" if it works, it works

heavies being slightly better there dont really matter

but good to know heavies in general are better

[manic wolf]

Hit the heretics until they die, wise choice

[near mauve]

my logic is if i want to use movesets im not playing paul

im playing weapons with movesets like picks

[limber cradle]

Best Og weapon by a fat fucking mile cause it's actually fun to use

[lilac ermine]

TRUUU

[zenith fern]

People who pick up grims on auric have to be the worst kind

[lilac ermine]

2 stack and its bad

[pallid quail]

dorn taught me to pick them up just to destroy them

he was so fuckin real for that

[lilac ermine]

How was the hive scum build

Did u like

[manic wolf]

Idk about that chief, get a lot of milage out of that on non-powersword setups

[zenith fern]

Human players hate actual fun when playing big man

[lilac ermine]

Tru maybe with fast weapon with cleave like shovel

I see most vet take the psword and dueling sword

[manic wolf]

Yeah, I don't play those. Powersword just feels dogwater with its mobility issues despite being strong an I was bored of Duelling Sword like a year or more ago lul

Besides, OG Shovel has the best moveset in the game