hivescum-class

[manic wolf]

Nah, in theory it would still have the same size AoE it does now

It would just murderize anything within that small radius

[dull dagger]

You guys are saying MKII alt fire is bad?

[slim mesa]

Opposite

Mk II alt (blue mode) is good

[dull dagger]

Oh the other mark.

[slim mesa]

Mk II blue applies AOE tox bomb

MK VI applies stagger bomb

[dull dagger]

I thought the AOE bomb also staggered so I thought you guys were talking about MKII.

[civic nebula]

Scummers how does rampage feel post buff? Worth trying over full gun build? Overtaking chem toxin meta?

[novel oracle]

Btw turns out I lied by accident
As of this patch it seems the tinier toxin spread aoe on hitting a surface just vanished for no reason

[austere coyote]

rampage was worth trying even pre buff

[muted pivot]

It was crazy good and fun as hell even before the buff

[novel oracle]

Rampage was worth pre buff
They just took out anything that made it unique like duration based conditions or post ability effects

So now its even more of a press button for stat bucket

Kind of upsetting

[lavish bronze]

cole

use your playsterter status to kick fathsark in the balls

please and thank you

[manic wolf]

I would put money on a lot of the playtesters recommending nerfs for certain aspects of Scum, but FS chose to buff it instead, because.. ..reasons???

[novel oracle]

I wasnt even aware of most of them

I didnt know exhaustion would get removed

Or the rending duration condition

Or cheap shots being strength

Or the dodge stuff

[manic wolf]

Its almost like Fatshark are throwing unneeded buffs at it because people arent buying it, or something

[lavish bronze]

i bought hive scum regardles of it was good or bad

[manic wolf]

Same

[dull dagger]

Finding med stims everywhere, can't pick them up but need a heal, wonder how long until the playerbase realises they can pick it up and use it on me.

Also I dropped a crate and did some killin, and got crate back up again in what felt like 15s.

[slim mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/duda-sarajewo-wyrok-gif-9272577

AAAAArgh no gif perms

[nova valley]

As you should. How low must anyone be to buy a character in a videogame only if it is strong?

[nova valley]

A LOT of people complained about it. I know some feedback is always good, but I feel that especially nowadays there is too much feedback. You find ppl complaining about something on, say, Discord, and the same amount of praises on, say, Reddit. FS Devs may see that as a chaos...?

[low harbor]

It’s actually still damage
But the rest apply

[echo python]

Is it actually just damage or is that just what the tooltip says?

[low harbor]

It’s actually damage despite saying strength

[echo python]

[pallid sapphire]

speed load or run n gun?

[compact oyster]

The subreddit unironically thinks zealot is weak btw

[acoustic viper]

I feel like most people take speedload, but I still take run and gun along with sticky hands because I enjoy the extra recoil and spread reduction

The extra reload speed is good but usually I don’t mind waiting the extra second or so

[glad latch]

I like the latest HS changes, makes them more fun to play, especially now that the top left stim tree isn't shit anymore, that gives more options.

[upbeat gyro]

Pinning if you want full-on-dmg

[glad latch]

Bruh, how tf

Zealot is probably the third strongest class. Being unable to die and simply walk through bullshit for 5 seconds is really good in a game like this.

[upbeat gyro]

I guess fatshark caters to casuals instead of 1k+ hour veterans with 5k+ on vt2 who true solo content and when they team up with 4 such buddies (instead of randoms) with good coordination, even hardest content is no challenge

[low harbor]

It’s somewhere in between

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah thats ideal, as youd wanna keep both around as long as possible

Casuals often come and go lot quicker

[low harbor]

It’s havoc-based balancing that tries to get casuals into havoc

lol

[upbeat gyro]

Well, atleast we got the havocs in the first place, 2024 auric maelstrom was hardest there was

[upbeat gyro]

Because you cant just shoot from cover of your own team, but have to be there in the thick of it

[acoustic viper]

[upbeat gyro]

Aaaand its gone.

[acoustic viper]

Damn, almost got to claim my free Mr beast gambling bucks

[manic wolf]

Eh, idk that I'd call Havoc a good thing personally

Something between Auric and Havoc would be great, but alas, likely isnt going to happen

[main trellis]

Inb4 chaos wastes
If you look at the morningstar on the left side opposite to havoc you’ll see smth is being built there

[spice cloud]

This game needs some major balancing before i touch it again tbh.

[manic wolf]

I did notice that yeah, guess we'll find out if its just a social hub or something that relates to gameplay

[manic wolf]

Sad to tell you, but thats unlikely to happen. FS seem happier making it into a power fantasy outside of Havoc40

[spice cloud]

Yeah im honestly pretty fed up with that.

The powercreep is so annoying.

[manic wolf]

It is, yeah

[spice cloud]

Cant have a normal match anymore without some tryhard arby or psyker.

[manic wolf]

I mean... Im not sure thats the problem compared to overall class balance being fucked

[spice cloud]

Its a balance problem.

Cause psyker and arby are still completely overtuned.

[manic wolf]

Every class is overtuned

[spice cloud]

Not this much as these 2

Imo

Its gotten to a point where i will just not play with arbys and psykers anymore.

[manic wolf]

They're all capable of far too much damage and they're all self-sufficient for the most part. Sure Psyker is more broken than the others, but the whole system is fucked from top to bottom. You can see it in the endgame being armour spam and un-fun modifiers because thats the only way to keep players in check

[sonic token]

What blessings should I use for a rampage build on the crowbar

[main trellis]

Ogryn

[manic wolf]

You should use not the Crowbar 😄

[manic wolf]

I mean, kinda? But also not really, just the other classes tend to be absurd at the moment, whereas Ogryn is merely "good"

[sonic token]

I know it’s not the best, but I wanna do something different today

[manic wolf]

Fair enough, I would take Can Opener and Take a Swing, but if thats optimal or not, I have no idea. Thats just what I would guess at being the all round more useful setup

[sonic token]

Ty

[manic wolf]

Wait not Take a Swing, Superiority

I forgot it had it

[fallen coyote]

Mb i reported it too fast

Then again if you somehow havent claimed its on you, I see this #ad all the time

[upbeat gyro]

For me the balance doesnt matter besides flame psyker being too dominant with bubble. Since i have no perspective in a sense as only returned late december with every class remade

Feel bad for the ogryns though for being left out some

Its what i used to play most before leaving 2024

[manic wolf]

Ironically Ogryn has had more reworks than anyone else

[fallen coyote]

Ogryn just has one of the highest skill ceilings because of their size

Playtesters could duo h40 with him before the rework that made him top tier

[upbeat gyro]

I clicked bunch of Havoc requests earlier today, one finally accepted. I kept saving the team and taking no damage outside one teammate screwing up boxburster in our face. Ending screen looked good too, then came the "congrats you did havoc 14" afterwards and my illusion shattered that i finally got gud.

Thought it was like 20+

[dull dagger]

Havoc felt a lot like regular difficulties to me.

Havoc 40 with experienced people felt easier than Havoc 15 with not so experienced people.

Kinda like how auric feels easier than heresy due to who you play with.

[flat mist]

Blackouts with bistol so goddamn strong

So much on demand stagger

With no rampage exhaust and defense stim feeling borderline invincible

[pulsar aspen]

@main trellis Zealot not Meta or so i've heard.

Who knows, it might even be true.

[river skiff]

How does perks work for the needlepistol

?

Let's say I kill someone with poison

Does it count as weapon kill or not?

For example to get toughness back

[covert umbra]

If you're talking about the perks on the needle pistol they do affect the output e.g. +25% carapace or +25% flak will increase damage

but they don't really change any killtime breakpoints even on higher difficulties, so I would recommend +10% reload speed and +25% unyielding for bosses

the blessings and talents are a bit more complicated but at least with the blessings, the majority don't work very well with the needle pistol because it often only looks at the Direct Damage of the needle hitting the target and not the Condition Damage from the Chem that the needle applies

it's why most people will recommend Run & Gun

[upbeat gyro]

Havent played zealot in 2 years, maybe gonna give fatmangus one of these days a spin with the new relic sword

Really liked the zippy combat knife playstyle, now rampage tac axe hivescum (and shivs) has gotten that covered

[pulsar aspen]

You play.. what?

[river skiff]

Yeah that's what I thought

[covert umbra]

it will count as a Kill but not a Ranged Kill

so e.g. Voice of Tertium won't work

[river skiff]

Welp

[covert umbra]

It's still an incredibly strong weapon, part of its strength is it doesn't really need any talent nodes to be strong.

You can focus your entire talent tree on making your melee strong / surviving.

The needle pistol can carry itself!

[upbeat gyro]

Inb4 nerf to it

Or more likely, dot rebalance

Chem does too much along with psyker flames

[pulsar aspen]

@upbeat gyro What kind of zealot build was that?

[upbeat gyro]

I mostly rank mk3 knife if i recall right, but this is only build i have left in gameslantern https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9b500f36-0f49-40b2-a596-5f89e1a261b0/crit-rashad

Says 2024-02-11, so 2 years ago exactly 😄

[zenith pagoda]

Holy fuck, rampage shivs with max power stim is insane

1 shotting muties with light attacks

[limber forge]

buffing rampage was certainly a choice

[zenith pagoda]

I love it

[manic wolf]

Zealot is still fun for brain-off gameplay

Can just waltz through a truly insane amount of bullshit without a care in the world

[flat mist]

What remraf said, but specifically they just made Speedload work in the last patch but no the toughness blessing doesnt work

[upbeat gyro]

Once i get my black havoc armor, ill try it again

[limber cradle]

Its the invincible zealot build

https://youtu.be/82EpvAqXth0?si=ce28viyU_R4TLgdl

Shitton of health, DR, and regen

[pulsar aspen]

But.. why?

[limber cradle]

I mean

Being genuinely nigh impossible to kill is a good thing, no?

[pulsar aspen]

Yes.. but .. to be honest.. i don't like the idea of the build being based on getting hit

It is not a very fitting description, sure, but that is how it feels like.

[limber cradle]

Its not my kinda build either but I can still see why

[pulsar aspen]

I can see it too, unfortunately.

But 287 HP is not going to save you against the stuff that will actually kill you.

[limber cradle]

Oh it will

[pulsar aspen]

Ahem, no it won't.

The Crusher overhead will not care about that amount of HP.

[limber cradle]

Lol

You just learned about it

Lemme go hunt down a clip in here

[lunar lichen]

It will with the talent of zealot tree

[pulsar aspen]

True, but at the same time...well.

True Grit for Arbitrator is one talent that will save you from those things and it is nice to have.

Tailoring the entire build to this stuff is.. excessive.

[limber cradle]

This might be easier @woeful hill I need fatmangus being stupid clips please and thank you

[limber cradle]

You'll see

[sand tendon]

1 crusher overhead on havoc 40 will not kill fatmangus zealot at full hp

it will take him down to last wound of hp and only corrupt nearly 2 wounds

[zinc mirage]

is +350 % cleave worth it, at what point does cleave bonus become redundant

[bronze glade]

depends

where are you getting that cleave

and on what weapon

[pulsar aspen]

@sand tendon Alright..but still..why?

Why is this.. necessary?

[sand tendon]

why is true grit necessary? why is any survival necessary?

[zinc mirage]

just normal chainsword with the +40% cleave on hit passive and the talent tree ones with rampage

[bronze glade]

which mark?

[main trellis]

not to mention; fatmagnus build is praised cause 'hurr durr i can tank soo much' meanwhile True Grit is not taken majoity of the time for arby builds cause 'not needed' or 'skill issue if you need it'

[bronze glade]

on XII yeah prob necessary

[main trellis]

make it make sense

[sand tendon]

why would players ever want Until Death? it doesn't give any damage... only survivability.... why would i ever want to live longer?

[zinc mirage]

the one with wide light attacks and the single dmg heavy I think

[bronze glade]

not sure which one that is tbh lol

[zinc mirage]

me neither lol I don't remember mark names

[main trellis]

this is not Real Life tho

[bronze glade]

XII is light spam for hordes

IV is heavy spam for hordes

[main trellis]

also push att

[main trellis]

Tactical Unalivement

[pulsar aspen]

My point is.. you tailor your entire build around this, including curios, for something that simply isn't needed because Zealot can already sustain a lot of damage. This isn't building for survival, this is unnecessary excess.

[sand tendon]

the other 3 missed the "fall tech" and i thought i should just simulate failing it too

[zinc mirage]

carapace stops any amount of cleave tho right?

[main trellis]

fiew expections but in general yes

[limber cradle]

I mean we can also just all play psyker if we only want to make optimal decisions tbf

[zinc mirage]

alright

I guess 300% cleave is overkill then

[sand tendon]

the relic blade by itself is so extremely strong by itself that it can carry the damage for the build. the other point is that the amount of survivability allows you to more effectively face crowds and stay in crowds so you can dps longer

[pulsar aspen]

Alright, fair point.

I can do the same without all of.. that.

And no, that isn't a "skill issue" thing

If it is a gimmicky build.. okay..alright.. let it be that.

But to me this indicates someone does not have a sufficient and well pracited understanding and executing of the fundamentals of the game

[limber cradle]

I mean

Ainz runs it from time to time

And I think Ainz is better than most people who play this game

[sand tendon]

plenty of people play this build on havoc 40? does this mean the build is gimmicky at best?

[limber cradle]

Cole iirc does too

[sand tendon]

does this mean that 40 is not difficult at all?

[pulsar aspen]

People playing this on H40 does not equal it being a good build.

It simply means, people play this on H40.

[sand tendon]

then what makes it a good build what would be the standard?

[main trellis]

you know why many ppl play the build? cause Regi hyped the build for the creator & aired it

[sand tendon]

and regi agrees that it's a good build

[main trellis]

i would say its creative overall; good for tanking & learning
other than that; no

• Regi had made many questionable takes after he came back from hiatus so yeah... should be taken with a grain of salt

[limber cradle]

I mean

Ainz and Cole run it

They're better than you, me, or bee.

[pulsar aspen]

That still does not make the build "good"

[sand tendon]

good for tanking is still good

[pulsar aspen]

A build can be garbage and used by excellent players.

The build would still be garbage, just glossed over by the personal skill of a player.

[main trellis]

and learning! cause more room for mistakes so you don't make them in the future

[limber cradle]

I think you guys are being excessively close minded because you don't understand something rn tbh

[sand tendon]

yes so the build is good

[pulsar aspen]

Oh i totally do understand and i give the build a right to exist.

[reef spoke]

To be fair, the average Darktide player's build would be improved if they did copy a Havoc 40 build

[pulsar aspen]

I just don't think the mindset is very good.

Or rather, what the build tries to do is good.

[main trellis]

depends what build tho; there are some really oof ones

[dire badge]

you're talking baout me aren't you

https://tenor.com/view/blushing-gif-gif-14376605647912861462

[limber cradle]

By your mindset no one should play anything except psyker, is my read tbh.

[main trellis]

nah; go back to your corner

[sand tendon]

i think the mindset is great. it's an alternative method of interacting with your hp/toughness

[main trellis]

[reef spoke]

Go into a lobby and inspect people. You'll see manmade horrors

[pulsar aspen]

@dire badge Ahem.. no? If i would be talking about you, i'd call you out directly. I don't really enjoy underhanded tactics in these sort of things.

[limber cradle]

Psyker does everything better than every other class so why don't we all just play the goofy space wizard, yk?

[reef spoke]

They even die better than us

[limber cradle]

Smh only class that can easily suicide

[main trellis]

exaggerated

[dire badge]

c-can you take a joke?

https://tenor.com/view/burnt-peanut-side-eye-the-burnt-peanut-gif-6339277251445282356

[main trellis]

nah we can't; time for your corner juice

[reef spoke]

You need to put "UwU" at the end so no one takes you serious

[pulsar aspen]

@dire badge I can in fact, not. Especially when it is shrouded like yours apparently.

[dire badge]

thanks for keeping it real mr willy

[dire badge]

It's the FentChoppa name ins't it

[limber cradle]

The point or psyker

Cause point might be but psyker is that good

[main trellis]

point

[limber cradle]

Alright

[reef spoke]

"Use Shivs" vs "Use Shivs UwU"

[dire badge]

https://tenor.com/view/aqua-konosuba-kazuma-sad-hand-on-shoulder-gif-2472116041386216360

[dire badge]

thanks OwO

[pulsar aspen]

Do me the favour and speak plainly will you.

I have no interest in this.

[dire badge]

okay daddy UwU

[main trellis]

thats why i'm here for; otehrwise i would not be talking about fatmagnus build

[reef spoke]

I joke but I do genuinely wonder how many arguments UwU has gotten me out of lol

I can say the stupidest shit and someone will go "erm actually"

[main trellis]

☝️ 🤓

[reef spoke]

It happens surprisingly often. I had to disable my dms

Or rather ignore them to be more accurate

Now I just say "UwU" when I'm joking

[dire badge]

the ogrn laugh emoji is als oa good sub for UwU

[limber cradle]

If someone DMs me I ping them in the server and ask them why tbh

[reef spoke]

You'd be surprised

[dire badge]

yeha I thought the gif of an bashful skunk would convey that but now I know I have to be UwUing 😔

[reef spoke]

I could but honestly I say stupid shit a lot in jest

Starsector discord I'm looking at you lol

[limber cradle]

Normally it's art scams tbh

I still get fucking dms for drawn pictures when I offhandedly mentioned commissioning a sword to be made in here months ago

[reef spoke]

Follow cool artist discord -> receive "art requests" dms

The fate of any art discord

[limber cradle]

I'm sure using the c word will get me more of those

[reef spoke]

Can't browse Karnak Twins r34 in peace smh UwU

[limber cradle]

I will now dm you in outrage or with a scam

[main trellis]

i prefer trapper

[fierce aurora]

How come a chain axe relentless strike deals less dmg than the vanguard chain sword.

[pulsar aspen]

@limber cradle Chocolate?

[limber cradle]

No.

[fierce aurora]

At least according to the tooltip.

[limber cradle]

I'm only saying it once.

[reef spoke]

YIPPIE :D

[main trellis]

cause relentless is stagger while vanguard is multiple enemies + you compare 2 different weapon archetypes

[fierce aurora]

Oh. I too am getting a sword. An Avar sabre.

[limber cradle]

Zweihander

[reef spoke]

L-l-lewd~!

[mystic rain]

this is my build at level 21, anything i can do to improve it?

[limber cradle]

I want a flamberge style blade on it tbh, idk if that's gonna be excessively expensive or not yet tho

[fierce aurora]

But relentless is still good for horde right.

[main trellis]

She has a hobby; she likes to fish
And She's clingy
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/11945799120394674196/23399789AC918831B86CA593BA026F0A0E42E952/

[reef spoke]

What melee are you using? You might not need cleave

[pulsar aspen]

@mystic rain You level up to 30.

[limber cradle]

I'll be deadass I can't stand clingy people

[mystic rain]

eh fair enough

[reef spoke]

For example, shiv and rashad wouldn't need a cleave talent imo

[limber cradle]

I need my alone time

[main trellis]

same; i like being alone from time to time (now more cause i'm sick...)

[reef spoke]

Ah the classic 30 meter trapper shot

[main trellis]

i was not even mad tbh

[fierce aurora]

I got a Viking sword too. From Fabri Armorum.

[pulsar aspen]

@main trellis 🎣

[reef spoke]

I still think trappers are probably the most unfair enemy even compared into silent bursters

[pulsar aspen]

How about the classic 30 meter trapper shot through a solid container.

[limber cradle]

The one I'm looking at rn is from Kingston Armory but tbh I would prefer to hire a local blacksmith

I just can't find a local swordsmith rn

[fierce aurora]

No swordsmiths in the Netherlands. So. I had to look in Eastern Europe.

Mainly knife and tooling blacksmiths.

Or decorative.

[limber cradle]

Yeah, even if they forge weapons it's normally knives and axes

[reef spoke]

No chainsword manufacturer, why live?

[fierce aurora]

I’m excited to get my avar sabre.

For reenactment combat.

[limber cradle]

Same

I want to get armor too

Armor is drastically more expensive than a sword tho

[fierce aurora]

The HEMA sword users complain my Viking sword is too heavy.

I don’t find it heavy.

Just gotta commit

[dire badge]

not bad tbh, id tkae the talent in middle row just above the right yellow talent that arffects your dodges. I'd also get the talent right above hyper violence. Afterwards id make my way to the left skill tree for weakspot damage and hyper critical. Also for adreneline the middle subnode is good but the subnode just left of that , that increases adreneline duration is like a must have

[limber cradle]

I think the sword I'm looking at rn is 4 and a half pounds or so

[dire badge]

NEDERLAND #1 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[limber cradle]

5, have a bunch numbers

Not all of which I understand

[reef spoke]

Manufacturers and lack of unit of measure

A match made in heaven

Normally not one for government oversight but please force a UoM for stuff holy shit

[sand tendon]

i do not understand... all those numbers have unit where needed no?

[reef spoke]

I'm not familiar with what " means

[sand tendon]

ah that is inches

[reef spoke]

I presume inches considering there's mm?

Ah funny times

[sand tendon]

is commonly used in US

[dire badge]

my pp is 70 inches

[sand tendon]

true! is strange that they mix mm and inches

[jaunty coral]

can i dump stopping power on needle pistol instead of dmg? does it matter?

[reef spoke]

Mixing Imperial and Metric units also annoys me because that shit causes days of delays in my job lol

[limber cradle]

Inches

[reef spoke]

You can, damage stats for needle pistol are a safe dumpstat

[limber cradle]

I moreso mean idk what a point of harmonics is

[upbeat gyro]

Both are dump

Dont affect dot

[jaunty coral]

also for needle pistol perks, im running reload speed + unyielding for a little more boss dmg.
is the unyielding even noticeable tho? Should I just run something like sprint efficiency, or stamina (to make stripped down work more reliably)

[reef spoke]

Fun times with mixing units of measure :c

[jaunty coral]

ok, so it doesnt make a difference which i dump? cool

[dire badge]

stripped down and run n gun. Then hae +stmaina as one of hte perks. Unyielding perk only works if u have hte ugn otu while the dots do its thing

[reef spoke]

Needle pistol is a very easy weapon to get good stats with at least lol

[upbeat gyro]

Only bosses have big enough HP pool for it to actually matter i guess

[dire badge]

I literlaly just use the fent gun to close distances for gunner lines at this point

with stripped down and run n gun

[jaunty coral]

im happy to hold the gun out for more dmg, at times im just dodging/sprinting with it out in h40 and applying poison to everything.
And ya, i heard unyielding can make a difference, i can test it.

I was wondering if just going + stamina and + sprint efficiency would just be better perhaps

[dire badge]

that's what i do tbh. I run a pure melee build and if your melee has carapce and unyielding perks like mine do they affect the dot from the fent gun too while its out.

[jaunty coral]

oh theres also reload speed

i should probably use 10% reload speed

so reload speed and stamina/sprint eff (or unyielding i guess, im gonna test if its noticeable on a h40 chaos spawn)

[dire badge]

up to you, usually udmping am agi nto a wall of armor or a boss is lubed up enough for me to go in

[reef spoke]

I personally find reload + Unyielding to be my preferred as I also use toxic Blackouts

So I can afford to have the pistol out and use the blackouts to make space

[fierce aurora]

Maaskantjuh. Jongeuh.

[jaunty coral]

toxic blackouts sound super fun, my issue is they come back WAY too slowly. Im also almost always using HC on my builds

which makes the 20 kills mechanic not really work well

[reef spoke]

Ah yeah that would be an issue lol

[dire badge]

I wouldl ike toxi blackoout but im not spending the 3 points to get there so I just run normal blackout

[reef spoke]

I've been messing around with rampage

[fierce aurora]

I can translate them if you’d like. To metrics.

[reef spoke]

So I can get the blackouts back reasonably quick

[limber cradle]

Nah that's not what I mean.

Measurements are easy.

Idk what a point of harmonics is

Idk when I would play the sword like am instrument

[fierce aurora]

Oh. That’s the point when the blade makes the least sound when connecting to something.

[limber cradle]

Neat

[fierce aurora]

But that sword is kinda thin.

[limber cradle]

So its the opposite of playing it like an instrument

[mystic rain]

i pressed the wrong skill, i use smiter not toughness

[fierce aurora]

For blunt rounded edge swords. You need about 3 to 4mm thickness.

[limber cradle]

That's

Not a blunt sword

[dire badge]

smiteri s godo to keep it up fastb ut some situations you won't get value so up to you for the risk. But id atleast take the adreneline duration increase. (not stack time increase)

[dire badge]

sir that's a club

[fierce aurora]

If that’s a sharp sword. You cannot use it for reenactment combat. The one from Kingston arms.

[limber cradle]

Ik

I am not intending on using it for reenactments or HEMA

[fierce aurora]

Edge retention mah fren. No chipping for my sword.

[mystic rain]

i use both, and im using rashad so no worries on killing

tho i might get good dual shivs for fun

whats the dump stat on shivs?

[dire badge]

mobility

[fierce aurora]

My sword and shield. And two hats.

[dire badge]

please tell me you larp

[fierce aurora]

I got a different scabbard.

[limber cradle]

Big fan of the shield colors tbh

They mean anything to you?

[fierce aurora]

No sir/madam. Early medieval reenactment.

Because I can’t show up with a metal sword. At a larp.

[dire badge]

thought atleast with the shield

still cool af though

[fierce aurora]

Shield pattern and colours are okay for reenactment.

But it’s a heavy thing.

8mm thicc

[mystic rain]

ik that shield would suck to be punched with

[thorny ginkgo]

how's double barrel desperado

[limber cradle]

Good

Not my preference, not bad tho.

[hollow leaf]

I prefer dualies desperado

Honestly the only shotgun I regularly use in the game is the Exterminator Shotgun on Arb

Combat shotgun isn't bad tho

[dire badge]

the fent gun is so good i felel ike im trolling if i odnt bring it. then again i only play pure melee build so maybe its dif on a ranged scum

[livid raven]

desperado does nothing for it

[thorny ginkgo]

my ranged arbites build with the slug mark is amazing

[livid raven]

nor vulture

[unique spire]

You really are Markus Kuttenburg

https://tenor.com/view/vermintide-kruber-fall-over-fall-over-gif-26485764

[woeful hill]

Whuh

What'd you need

I probably had a lot of fatmangus moments in my solo

[limber cradle]

Specifically the funny fatmangus clip where its the crusher bulwark wall

[unique spire]

Fatmagic's cousin

[limber cradle]

But I'll take whatever you think is a good example of it

But I also think it doesn't really matter anymore

Because I do not want to restart that discussion because I don't care that much lol

[woeful hill]

Fair

[fierce aurora]

Huh

[mystic rain]

just think of being hit with it

[fierce aurora]

Not rlly.

[hollow leaf]

I exclusively play fent gun on melee scum

But I switch between my ranged and melee builds a lot

When I'm on my ranged build I use dualies, when I'm on my melee build I use fent gun

[dire badge]

yeah itsj sut too good when uhave no ranged buffs

i tried range builds but honestly im so bored with them

knowing i can get merked by one mess up puts me in a flow state. I still get merked ofc but tis fun

[main trellis]

so... not a melee build
noted

[novel oracle]

Health is a resource and I am spending it to deal more damage

[dire badge]

if ur not on 5hp for half the game are you really even playing hivescum

[mighty belfry]

I'm late on this. I am actually shocked that people don't realize how good fatmangus actually is lol

Genuinely one of the most consistently performing builds I've ever used in h40 because it gives you so much damage mitigation for very little loss in actual output.

[sand tendon]

true

[bronze glade]

It’s honestly kinda boring

Being too fat makes me fall asleep

[mighty belfry]

I mean if it's boring.

Ya that's valid.

[manic wolf]

What the fuck is fatmangus

[woeful hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1459365744059088988/Thumbnail_19.png?ex=698ddc83&is=698c8b03&hm=e50899214fe86078c9ef22c517d9d12650efa0e7de5c1c8715fa8671db7e35a0&

[mighty belfry]

But there's a reason the build works enough that it's become a popular choice for zealot

[woeful hill]

Whoops

[dire badge]

its when u get that heretic mangus and feedh imm nurlge hamburgers

[mighty belfry]

Health tanking

[woeful hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1459365505100943576/3B47AB1.MP4?ex=698ddc4a&is=698c8aca&hm=e3a6d2756f116a68d339cbae0b7b1a422171e5fb4fa4c163684f888f62f950c4&

8 damage from burster

[manic wolf]

Ah right, yeah that makes sense on Zealot

[mighty belfry]

Like that, ya

We chase damage so much in this game that we forget that survivability is also very valuable

[manic wolf]

And I'm still gonna spec only mobility buffs and damage and die to some random poxwalker in a single hit

[mighty belfry]

Fatmangus kinda manages to do both where it does enough damage reasonably while also being genuinely really hard to put down unless you're playing abysmally.

In havoc it's def easier to go down but not even by that much.

[manic wolf]

Really though im kinda surprised HP isnt considered more valuable, especially in Havoc where your toughness gets neutered

[mighty belfry]

It's valuable for classes with lower base hp

[dire badge]

if i dont get instantly killed by having 1 second of airtime where I can't dodge, I dont wnana play

[manic wolf]

Don't forget getting stuck on geometry!

[dire badge]

https://tenor.com/view/kurt-angle-kurt-angle-meme-kurt-angle-thousand-yard-stare-kurt-angle-war-thousand-war-stare-gif-12128448474115985980

[mighty belfry]

Because this game is bullshit sometimes and having a safety net against that bullshit is pretty nice.

Let's be real. None of us are immune to a silent poxburster. Or a crusher. And the build actively counters those exact things.

[manic wolf]

As you eluded to earlier, risking giving up damage for survivability is just as likely to get get you killed though, just playing devils advocate here, but its sort of true in most cases outside of Zealot

[dire badge]

i turned on dangerrzone only for poxbursters

[astral canyon]

i am

:3

[river skiff]

Swap melee for crit since you are using last cornerstone that benefits from it

[mighty belfry]

That's why you run relic blade with it usually.

[tardy cedar]

I played with a group that demanded I switch FatMangus to having book

[thorny ginkgo]

MARCH MADNESS COMING SOON

[tardy cedar]

which meant changing a bunch of perks

it did not work well

[thorny ginkgo]

the tac axe book version is better imo

[manic wolf]

Ofc, but the point remains, its mostly Zealot and maybe Ogryn exclusive

[mighty belfry]

But thats book.

[manic wolf]

Book is bad

[mighty belfry]

I don't want to use book.

[thorny ginkgo]

its very niche

[mighty belfry]

Ew

[tardy cedar]

3 Havoc 40 fails, til I just said fuck that I'll just play Arbitrator

[manic wolf]

Its area denial for the most part that you can't leverage yourself, you have to rely on your teammates to leverage it, and that has uhh... inconsistent outcomes

[tardy cedar]

I did explain I was giving up my main thing with Shroudfield and relic blade charge attack to nuke bosses

but they wanted book

[mighty belfry]

Book isn't that good 😭

[tardy cedar]

Havoc 40 must have so they tell me

what pissed me off

[manic wolf]

Lule

[mighty belfry]

Why do people insist on thinking it's fundamental to playing zealot.

[tardy cedar]

is on our first run where I just had normal FatMangus

I was last man standing

[manic wolf]

Sloptubers. Sloptubers is why

[tardy cedar]

and had used Shroud to res people going down during twins fight

but then they were like nah you need to go book

[dire badge]

I used to struggle with twins, then they pt them in every havoc game. Now we're triplets. Thanks for coming to my ted talk

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-brick-meme-break-explode-gif-13868715770986833670

[mystic rain]

what blessings can make the shivs better at horde clear?

[woeful hill]

@sand tendon

[sand tendon]

it's not as valuable outside of zealot because not a lot of classes have enough dr/some sort of damage mitigation/health regen to make it outshine tdr and toughness boosts

[sand tendon]

also whuhu

[woeful hill]

Gif

[manic wolf]

Yes, thats what I said

[dire badge]

honestly mate id go precog an theone that gives crit on dodge. Take rampage rending to make up for not having uncanny strikes

[mighty belfry]

Precog or Executor

[dire badge]

executor on shivs? I've not heardo f stranger thigns

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-cat-furious-cat-cat-angry-fury-gif-23071861

[near mauve]

crazy taxi backread

guys why build to tank 10 pox bursters

just dont get hit

[woeful hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1459365505100943576/3B47AB1.MP4?ex=698ddc4a&is=698c8aca&hm=e3a6d2756f116a68d339cbae0b7b1a422171e5fb4fa4c163684f888f62f950c4&

[dire badge]

you tank 10 pox bursters and you'll have to tank my load after seeing that

[near mauve]

fatmangus mein beloved

[mighty belfry]

It genuinely works for horde clear

[near mauve]

have you considered logging off but irl

[dire badge]

yeah but with precog and crit on dodge you're already making mincemeat with hypcer violence and critical

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/promise-pinky-promise-swear-friends-no-going-back-gif-14722134

gonna go spawn 11 pox bursters

[dire badge]

yeah I need to touch some grass 😔 🫰

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/potato-flew-around-my-room-gif-24711261

[dire badge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-meme-gif-394218174908076546

[sand tendon]

But to me this indicates someone does not have a sufficient and well pracited understanding and executing of the fundamentals of the game

[woeful hill]

What did I miss this morning

Fatmangus hate?

[sand tendon]

yeah

[near mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/dante-subhuman-frog-ding-ding-gif-24746162

[dire badge]

morning? american? hamburger.

[near mauve]

im sorry i'll get rid of all these gimmicky perks and only take dmg perks
after all im not supposed to ever get hit

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/da-gloop-go-off-splurg-gaogaigar-final-palparepa-gif-16191319798834005210

[woeful hill]

I used it to beat my 1st havoc 40 solo on zealot

It's good build

Relic blade does a bit of carrying

[near mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/that-yoinky-yoink-sploinky-sploink-gif-27652668

[sand tendon]

"just because ur good at the the game means any build can be good for you!!!! that's why the build is bad!!!"

[manic wolf]

Thats... just kinda a bad take tbh, it's not like bubblebitch flamestick psyker

[sand tendon]

i'm quoting someone ironically

[near mauve]

im simply using the gifts bestowed upon me by the allfather michael zekki i mean fatshark

[manic wolf]

gotcha

[manic wolf]

Careful, your Duelling Shield shitter is showing 😄

[near mauve]

are u denying the gifts of kami sama himself my friend

[sand tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/turtle-happy-slapper-gif-14031855

[dire badge]

dueling sword, flame psyker are all crutches. IF YOU"RE HAVING FUN YOU"RE PLAYING WRONG

[pulsar aspen]

@mighty belfry That safety net is called Until Death.

[near mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/728174260878704643/1178364672756437022/salvatory_ogryn.gif

[sturdy linden]

My one and only complaint with the Fatmangus build is that it uses stealth and most players I run across are fucking garbage at using stealth

[limber cradle]

You can use FoTF on it iirc

[dire badge]

parental advisory image

[near mauve]

stealth is only for boss 1 shots

i play it with charge in aurics

where boss 1 shots dont matter

cause auric bosses are a joke

[sand tendon]

i use fotf most of the time and piety over ij sometimes

[sturdy linden]

Yeah but a lot of people are too lobotomized to deviate from The Build Guide(tm)

[manic wolf]

Depends on my opponent

[near mauve]

im pretty sure the og build vid said u can modifiy it

shit is not gospel

just make sure u have all the good tank shit

[sand tendon]

his gameslantern also has a bunch of variations in there

like if u go piety just use tac axe instead

[sturdy linden]

Ime every time I have a Zealot teammate, they are either Sigismund Incarnate or they are trashbags with legs

[woeful hill]

Need only 3 talents really

[sturdy linden]

[woeful hill]

BftE, RF, and the plus 2 wounds

That's the Fatmangus (plus curios)

[calm aurora]

the problem with fatmangus

[pulsar aspen]

But why is that considered necessary or good in your opinion?

[calm aurora]

is that rn I have fuckers shooting bursters in my face

[woeful hill]

Alot of Dr that you can't get with normal toughness builds

[calm aurora]

because they can eat it but not me

[pulsar aspen]

I fail to see the need for that

[woeful hill]

Saves until death for dire moments

All good

[main trellis]

*14

[sturdy linden]

I just started using telekine wall when playing Psyker yesterday so I can stonewall teammates from doing dumb shit like that

[calm aurora]

genius

[pulsar aspen]

@sturdy linden They will still do dumb shit like that, just in a different way

[manic wolf]

You can't fix stupid, but you can ducttape it to a chair

[woeful hill]

Practice using wall to bounce the bruster into your team

That's true skill

[main trellis]

despite the fact burster will not 1 shot you

[sand tendon]

FLATSCREEN #1

[pulsar aspen]

And it actively creates more danger. That Mutant/Dog/Poxburster that would have behaved in a predictable manner? Now its delayed until a worse situations occurs.

[main trellis]

BRUH; thats what until death is for lmao

[near mauve]

that will always be a thing tbh

[woeful hill]

See a bruster? Run.

[near mauve]

somehow people still dont know how to deal with bursters

[woeful hill]

Opposite direction

[manic wolf]

Ehh, you dont want it to proc until there are no other options tho

[mighty belfry]

why would it hurt not to have more damage resistance though

why would you want to proc until death so quickly

[main trellis]

pinball much?

[pulsar aspen]

Because it is not needed.

[woeful hill]

Exactly

[main trellis]

obviously; its still a safety net you always have

[mighty belfry]

It's not needed. Doesn't mean it isn't helpful

[main trellis]

feels good to know some ppl remember that game

[sand tendon]

if you have really good conditions you can also micro the arby dog to bounce the burster around and into your team

[sturdy linden]

Idk just kill them when they're standing there stunned after hitting the wall

[manic wolf]

Ofc, yeah it very much is. I dont see the issue with addition mitigation on a class that makes that a viable option though. I'm not gonna run it myself, but for it to be avaliable is a good thing

[sturdy linden]

[manic wolf]

Build diversity and what not

[near mauve]

more tankiness = less likely to die = able to pull off crazier shit since you know u wont die
Zealot's entire job is to get in the thick of things and hack away at things
survivie more = do more

[mighty belfry]

Are we really neglecting the value of not having your entire health bar completely nuked by a crusher?

I really don't see how that isn't a valuable thing to have.

[pulsar aspen]

@near mauve I can do all of that without giving up other talents and curios to have this. And no, it is not a skill issue thing.

[sand tendon]

that's great you're an amazing player so good at the game you'll never make a mistake ever

[mighty belfry]

Like, you can do without it.

But why does it hurt to have it?

[pulsar aspen]

I will make mistakes. Pretty bad and horrible mistakes even.

[near mauve]

sure u can if you never ever get hit
but what if i want to be way tankier without sacrificing my dmg output?
build variety my friend

[gray rampart]

step 1: zealot build that spends every single talent point on surviving a crusher overhead
step 2: crusher wave
step 3: my team is dead because I can't kill anything

but I lived which means I'm the better player

[pulsar aspen]

I still do not see the need to have.. this build.. for those situations.

[sand tendon]

that's wonderful!!! then you can see the value of having extra safety and still doing decent damage

you don't "need" it. it's just nice to have

[pulsar aspen]

I do see the value of extra safety. I also see when something is excessive. And this is one of those things.

[sand tendon]

what makes it excessive?

[mighty belfry]

Why is it excessive???

[near mauve]

except you dont sacrifice your dmg output

thanks to relic blade being goated

its a build specifically made for RB

[gray rampart]

lmao true

[woeful hill]

That's why it's the goat

[mighty belfry]

You're not sacrificing damage for it. Relic blade does just fine by itself.

[pulsar aspen]

You have Until Death and your base toughness regen talents. That is enough.

[main trellis]

its not really that; the build is going into an extreme gimmick of being able to tank everything
unless you are learning the game... why would you not like... avoid the dmg in the first place?
my point is - DR is nice; making a meme is nice; calling it good tho ain't the way; as i said before - its popular cause it got hyped by heads of the community & it allows you to not care much (which is not best if you wanna improve in the game), nothing else

[pulsar aspen]

Exactly.

[mighty belfry]

Because there are simply just things that you won't avoid.

That is just an inevitability.

[pulsar aspen]

Never did i say, "this build is trash, don't use it, why would anyone ever use it, whoever made this is garbage at the game"

[manic wolf]

You can both build to be survivable and have the capacity to not tank damage, its not really a skill issue based train of thought, its arguably sensible and has the capacity to lead to much more consistent Ws

[dire badge]

yeah but is it helpful in high havocs? you need dmg to kill things becfore the team gets overwhelmed. Now arey ou pulling your weight considering you're so fucking fat in helping that?

[woeful hill]

I don't really care much for this rn but I will say that I was able to do my H40 solo with fatmangus meanwhile the average zealot build has a hard time getting to mid event

[pulsar aspen]

I just think this is not a good build and what it tries to accomplish is not needed.

[woeful hill]

But that's the most extreme situation

[near mauve]

why play tank characters? why play ogryn or arbite?
just play scum and do more dmg than everyone else

[pulsar aspen]

If you want to use it? Feel free to do so.

[manic wolf]

I mean... kinda troo tho

[pulsar aspen]

I also do not want to proselytize anyone that my opinion is right. It is an opinion after all.

[mighty belfry]

But you're kind of insisting it's not worth using when, there's actual reason that it's worth using.

And you've been doing it quite a bit.

[pulsar aspen]

I mean the words i say.

[near mauve]

idk its all just build variety
game would be boring if everyoen ran the same thing and there was only 1 way to build things

[sand tendon]

a havoc 40 pub game with fatmangus: it does damage in spite of its tankiness

[pulsar aspen]

Oh i do not doubt that.

[sand tendon]

then it's a fine build not a garbo build

[mighty belfry]

So then... if the build can tank. And it can do damage... Why is it not a good build?

[sand tendon]

that's where i'm disagreeing with you: it's not garbage as a build.

[mighty belfry]

This is actually confusing me.

[pulsar aspen]

I still think and say, it is gimmicky at best and the whole point of it is not needed.

[reef spoke]

because it's not a martyrdom 3 wound build UwU

[vapid jungle]

The opportunity cost of damage skills talents and blessings vs DR skills and talents will be different per player. There is no right amount of DR or damage that works for every player. You can talk about breakpoint and math weenie stuff all day but different players will get different value from different talents with different teams on different maps with different modifiers.

[pulsar aspen]

The problem lies in that idea of "tanking" damage.

You want to avoid damage. Not facetank it.

Loading up more HP to tank more is not the way to go.

[mighty belfry]

Tell that to the three silent poxbursters that threw themselves at me yesterday with no way to avoid them.

[reef spoke]

sad martyrdom noises

[main trellis]

i played soo many H40's and exept occasional silent trapper (which your giga dr hp won't save you from btw) and broken audio in some parts of the maps (like the gate at dark communion cause they still didn't fix it...) there is no such thing as silent special
its no offence but no awareness & no watching potential spawn points where enemies can assail you
that you learn it in time... or don't; play fatmangus & don't care - after all its like any other choice that makes the experience easier (like meta builds; fatmagnus won't be... probably)

[mighty belfry]

Which because I was running fatmangus

[near mauve]

no one is running it ot run at things and facetank it you're missing the whole point
people run it becaue there's plenty of things that will fuck you up and its nice to be able to eat a lot of shit and still live

its the same logic as playing any tanky build ever in any game

same logic why people like ogryn/arbites

[mighty belfry]

Only did a single wound of my health.

[pulsar aspen]

That is just what the game throws onto you at times. You have Until Death for that.

[near mauve]

and i also have more

[mighty belfry]

But why would you want to have it proc faster? I don't get it!!!

[near mauve]

they didnt put all that dr in the tree for the player to say its overkill

[manic wolf]

Thats not really relevant. Even the best players make mistakes or get caught out by the inevitable bullshit Darktide is capable of throwing up. The idea isnt to tank damage, its to survive inevitable bullshit

You should NEVER be seeking to tank damage

[pulsar aspen]

@manic wolf I fully agree. However the things that will generally kill you dont care about your 300 HP.

[main trellis]

in vermintide 2 you could do it cause temp hp mechanic & barkskin blessing

[mighty belfry]

The build makes them care.

[sand tendon]

they do actually- outside of trappers and bad grabs

[pulsar aspen]

@main trellis Truely?

[mighty belfry]

That's why it's good.

[woeful hill]

I remember in a solo attempt

I got grabbed by a silent Cspawn while fighting twins

[near mauve]

they very much do

i tanked 2 overheads with it

[woeful hill]

Even with rinda hitting me and Cspawn eating me I lived without using until death

[near mauve]

havoc 20s

[mighty belfry]

3 poxbursters

[pulsar aspen]

Why was it necessary to tank those two overheads in the first place?

[mighty belfry]

Only a single wound.

[mighty belfry]

...

[pulsar aspen]

Avoid those overheads or find ways to control the enemy and it won't happen.

[mighty belfry]

Holy shit apparently everyone is just a literal god of perfection at this game

[sand tendon]

you can still tank 2 in 40s you just proc UD on the second one

[manic wolf]

Generally not, no, but there are cascading chains of events that are effected by your 300EHP, and though they might not be as common as some of the obvous ones, they're not uncommon and if you can build for damage and survivability, there is no reason to not. Granted this hinges on you wanting to play Relic Blade or something else with comparable damage output, but the point remains. You'er not losing anything by doing so, you're just getting extra benifits

[sand tendon]

you got hit by things you might not have had control over? just don't get hit?

[pulsar aspen]

For Havoc 40 i truely do expect excellency or the willingness/aspiration to learn.

[near mauve]

i was overwhlemed and there was an entire rotten clown pack
i could have literally died
i dint choose to tank them i just got overwhelmed lol
all 3 teamtes were kissing the floor and i had to kite like 20 crushers and fight them and got hit

[mighty belfry]

Like you say this as though Havoc 40 isn't complete bullshit sometimes.

[pulsar aspen]

That sounds like an issue with your team, not you in particular. Point still stands.

[mighty belfry]

And anyone who plays it enough knows that's just not true.

[near mauve]

so goated

[sand tendon]

icl i think you've either entirely misunderstood the mindset of the build or you're very willingly being ignorant and obtuse on purpose

[main trellis]

or maybe you can do better but you seek easier alternatives?

i dunno

[pulsar aspen]

No, i fully understand the purpose of the build and i am very open minded. I simply think it is not needed.

[mighty belfry]

See like

[sand tendon]

no it's not needed

but it's preferred

[manic wolf]

I hate to say it, but I have a habit of playing the glassiest possible builds because more damage, more gudder, but even I can see the value in being able to make yourself tougher with no penalty

[pulsar aspen]

Now we are getting somewhere.

[sand tendon]

like you don't need psyker flame staff levels of damage

but people prefer it

[vapid jungle]

Im so good I play with Grey weapons and no talents

[near mauve]

its not an easier alternative its a different way to play the game
not everyone wants to build around being a dodge god
builds that allow for great sustain are great to play and make games less stressful

[sand tendon]

you don't need smite but people prefer to stand still in a corner and just lmb+rmb

[vapid jungle]

Checkmate skill tree abusers

[mighty belfry]

This mindset annoys me actually. Yes, ideally you want to avoid damage. You want to prevent it from happening. But no one is perfect. And it's going to happen whether you think you're good enough at this game to avoid it or not.

[sand tendon]

you don't need to run btl but people prefer to get their stagger out to keep the line

[bronze glade]

Simply don’t get hit

[sturdy linden]

You sound like a Tanner disciple ngl.

[manic wolf]

No skills, only your starter level 1 weapons or you didnt complete Havoc 40. Lets get some Darksouls elitism up in here 😄

[sand tendon]

you don't need literally anything and can just say "don't get hit and play better"

[near mauve]

this game has dogass servers and dogass netcode and too many random things that can ruin your run
i always build to be able to eat hits if i can cause the game is literally unreliable lol

[gray rampart]

there's also just gonna be times you get frame trapped

[pulsar aspen]

@sturdy linden We may share similar mindsets, but i do not like the guy. I've watched one of his videos, granted the tone was probably to be expected from that type, but i still didn't like it.

[novel oracle]

Shrimply be perfect

[pulsar aspen]

And i am suredly not a "disciple" of his.

[sand tendon]

straight up you can probably reach a miminum dps to clear havoc 40s on most classes in ~20 points the rest of it is not "needed"

[dire badge]

im trying father

[near mauve]

also zealot is literally made to be berserker type class
being able to eat more shit and dish out dmg is what makes a berserker berserk all over the place

u know what im saying

[astral canyon]

berserking all over the place

[manic wolf]

Too much effort, life is easier if you accept your fallibility

[near mauve]

dodgecells 4ever no diffed by berserkchads

[vapid jungle]

Perfect is the enemy of good

[limber cradle]

You may not need to use what fatmangus offers every game but when you do it's very nice, idk

I think this is true of many builds.

It's been very amusing to watch this again tho.

[sand tendon]

i must defend my man aa he's such a nice guy

[near mauve]

i simply enjoy playing games where im not stressed over getting 1 shot

[woeful hill]

I'm here studying and watching this

[mighty belfry]

It's like everyone has forgotten that damage mitigation is... actually useful???

Well not everyone obvs

[near mauve]

the editing montage at the start of every vid is 10/10

[sand tendon]

participating in this has been such a great break from editting

[limber cradle]

Im co oping ER with someone and watching this shit on another screen tbh

[woeful hill]

What are you editing

[sand tendon]

a friend sent me a game manual to proofread

[manic wolf]

PC ER? And location and level bracket?

[main trellis]

if only shield of contempt was not working as it works now... i would be using it too

[near mauve]

bumner you should change your name to a.a disciple

[sand tendon]

on this first pass i'm making sure his charts and references are right

[main trellis]

but alas; it is still dogwater

[sand tendon]

i am a disciple of king ass ripper actually

[mighty belfry]

Funny thing is, the build forces it to work more for you.

[limber cradle]

205, NG+ bouncing around limgrave, liurnia, and Caelid before Radahn, they're 40.

[near mauve]

who's this indvidual

[sand tendon]

don't actually look him up but he just makes videos of him eating things... then ripping ass

[near mauve]

oh wait

[sand tendon]

oversimplified

[manic wolf]

Sadge, I was gonna invade you, but I dont have, and wont make a level 200 character

[near mauve]

the guy who made the disgusting pizza eating vid

im going to keeellll meself

[sand tendon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyhW0z9erDY

[limber cradle]

I have a dedicated pvp character or two and it ain't this one

[near mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-cat-uncanny-cat-gif-17717270398074174657

[manic wolf]

I would hope not. 200-300 is as bad as max level bracket

Spam, spam and yet more spam

Fuck that

[mighty belfry]

To explain this, since you don't have a lot of toughness, innately, you're going to end up taking more health damage than your other teammates, which is what procs Shield of Contempt.

[sand tendon]

what are the standard brackets for pvp? 120-150 still?

[limber cradle]

Ones 150, ones 125, I wanna level one for 90

[manic wolf]

125-150 yeah, invasions vary, but if you go above 168 it becomes miserable

[mighty belfry]

As soon as you take even 1 point of health, that kicks the proc condition off.

[limber cradle]

I kinda like it tbh

Anime fights type pvp lol

[manic wolf]

Being spammed with Onion Rings from three people isnt fun imo

[main trellis]

nah; thats you just rushing in so you can get hit first & activate it for yourself which you can do for every build using that talent
unironically; book/charge version could be made too & it would not impact much the DR loss from shroudfield loss

[near mauve]

200 level invasions is just fighting 2 mages spewing pew pew pews and some mf with infinite stam

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. its cancerous

[limber cradle]

I normally let people invade me

[sand tendon]

watching people like jeenine play the game and do menutech or whatever looks so cool to me for some reason

[main trellis]

radagons rings of light?

[mighty belfry]

but you wouldn't get nearly as much value from it because if you're running higher toughness, you don't actually want to get to the point of taking health damage to begin with.

[manic wolf]

No, the DLC one that has perfect tracking and as much range as the lockon does

Though that one is pretty annoying also

#killallmages

[main trellis]

i can't recall it
haven't touched the game in ages...

[mighty belfry]

Fatmangus, legit rewards you for not having high toughness and naturally being more susceptible to health damage lol

[manic wolf]

Its jsut star shower but deals Frost damage

[main trellis]

so foolishness; got it

[sand tendon]

MAGES MUST DIE

[manic wolf]

Indeed

[limber cradle]

I love these games and the shit you can do in them tbh

[manic wolf]

Mages get the physical magic (Boner bow)

[limber cradle]

Been playing dark souls games since I was like 14

And I'm now almost 30

[mighty belfry]

You call it foolishness.

But it works for a reason.

[main trellis]

only cause DR from shroundfield tbh
rest is unchanged; better toughness regain actualy & team help/frontline support

[limber cradle]

Tbh I normally pvp in arena but arena is also a sweatlord containment zone which is why I have decimated characters specifically for it

Like

150 invasions also suck

I prefer under level 100 invasions

[manic wolf]

Hey thats rude.... No, no, I conceed, thats true

[sand tendon]

under level 100 is when you find the funniest invaders

[limber cradle]

Nah like, it's not a bad thing but I do think you need a dedicated build for it otherwise someone with an insane set up is jusy gonna murder you

[limber cradle]

Agreed

[manic wolf]

Tbh just someone with better fundamentals is gonna kill you, they don't have to be running some overly strong setup

[sand tendon]

i was helping a friend through his campaign and we had a fight with one eyed shield only

[limber cradle]

I will say I think it's insane you'll swear TG is a required talent for arb then talk about how FMG is bad or excessive. It feels contrarian for the sake of being one.

[manic wolf]

Shamshir and a modicum of competance is enough to kill 99% of people in the arena

[limber cradle]

I mean yeah, defo, but some set ups are also just really stupid

[mighty belfry]

wait

[limber cradle]

And Arena has a lot of those stupid set ups

[mighty belfry]

what

[limber cradle]

Willy swears up and down true grit is a must take talent for arb

[manic wolf]

For sure, yeah, Duelling Shield, Cleanrot, BHB, but at least most people running these things are dogwater

[mighty belfry]

IT'S THE SAME CONCEPT

[limber cradle]

Yeah, that's how I feel about it too.

[manic wolf]

Yeup, it is indeed

Arb just gets it with one point of expenditure

And you know, Arb is just tanky for existing regardless

[sand tendon]

you'll never need true grit... just manage the sniper/crushers/bursters better ok? block it all with arby shield...

/s

[main trellis]

you see heres the thing;
Fatmangus is a gimmick build (even the creator stated it); a combination of talents that make you unnaturally tanky
True Grit is not a gimmick in any way & its 1 talent

[near mauve]

never paly ogryn or arbites, why are they build to tank? you're supposed to avoid dmg

[manic wolf]

Idk man, True Grit is pretty gimmicky

[mighty belfry]

...how are these things different

[near mauve]

what the hell is "unaturally" man its clearly stated talents in the tree

[manic wolf]

Its a "take this one node to out-tank everyone else", thats literally a gimmick

[mighty belfry]

Papa

[main trellis]

wait; shamshir? that scimitar?

[mighty belfry]

I appreciate you bud.

But what the hell?

[limber cradle]

Whatever you wanna believe man, I'm not gonna argue it with you lol.

[manic wolf]

No, Scimitar is just the less good version of Shamshir

[mighty belfry]

It's the same thought process that leads to an arbitrator taking True Grit.

[main trellis]

i think i stated it pretty clear

[main trellis]

moveset? scalling?

[mighty belfry]

Except you just say, it's a gimmick. The gimmick, clearly works pretty darn well.

You haven't given an actual explanation as to why it doesn't work.

You're just saying you shouldn't use it because it's "foolish" and you should be avoiding damage.

But then, why would you advocate for True Grit?

[main trellis]

ofc it does; its great for learning if you are new especially cause you can take more hits
but for a more experienced player? nuh uh

[mighty belfry]

It doesn't add up!

[manic wolf]

Moveset. It keeps priority, even against hyperarmour for two hits, three under certain scenarios, you're safe to go for the backswing against most setups, it has good range and low recovery

[limber cradle]

Nope

[sand tendon]

idk man a havoc 40 solo with the build shows it's pretty useful for an experienced player

[main trellis]

do i have to?

[mighty belfry]

Yes, actually.

[manic wolf]

Sham' has more tournement wins than any other weapon, its very good without being a shitter cheese weapon

[mighty belfry]

Like, why does this build, not work?

I'm genuinely curious.

[main trellis]

every H40 solo is kiting & rushing forward fiesta

[sand tendon]

and?

what of the havoc 40 completions with the build?

[mighty belfry]

Not only that but

[sand tendon]

just because it's kiting and rushing forward do you not do this in normal games?

[mighty belfry]

If we're talking Ainz, that run took like

[sand tendon]

you've NEVER kited a rotten armour pack in a game?

[mighty belfry]

Over an hour?

I wouldn't say they were rushing.

[main trellis]

rushing? no

[limber cradle]

Ainz reguarly has 2 hour runs iirc

[sand tendon]

by rushing do you mean speedrunning or do you mean pushing forward?

[main trellis]

speedruns

[novel oracle]

The run we're referring to isnt speedrunning

Its actually playing the game

[mighty belfry]

It wasn't a speedrun at all.

Ainz really was out here soloing a h40 rotten with fatmangus

[manic wolf]

I feel like this needs saying again; If you can keep your DPS and get more survivability, why is that a bad thing?

[sand tendon]

ok cool so does the build having utlity for ainz while kiting mean nothing then?

[novel oracle]

Yeah
Im still managing to out dps purg psykers with fatmangus in h40

And that is an insane metric to compare to

[manic wolf]

Yeah, i mean that kinda says it all really. Truly competative DPS and not folding like a wank tissue in a stiff breeze when something goes tits up... like thats very worthwhile

[sand tendon]

yeah no one ever really talks about how op relic blade actually is...

[main trellis]

cause every build can grab it & be what it needs to be; a proper frontliner
fatmangus can be changed in terms of abilities & keystones for better team help trading DR in the process cause no shroudfield DR
thats the difference
and it relies on a talent that you have to activate first cause the moment someone else gets hit before you do you don't get that DR and you get fked more
thus; gimmick

[sand tendon]

unpowered relic blade is often better than dclaw without the parry most times

[near mauve]

again the build is meant SPECIFICALLY for relic blade cause it can carry it's own weight with dmg
dont run it with heavy sword lmao

[mighty belfry]

Shield of Contempt isn't your only damage mitigation either though.

[sand tendon]

i wish i recorded my heavy sword and dclaw games with the build

[mighty belfry]

You're ignoring three nodes that are fundamental to the build and why it works.

[main trellis]

a good player can take even the most mediocre build & succeed with it; we all know that - we all seen it (probably multiple times)

[sand tendon]

why did the good player choose the build?

[near mauve]

shroudlfield isnt mandatory, u can run it with charge too

[sand tendon]

you're making the assumption they took it to be as suboptimal as they can be while still finishing the run no?

[near mauve]

im too bad with heavy sword to accomplish such a feat....

[novel oracle]

You have
Good balance
Hubris
Bleed for the emp
Shield of contempt
Shroud dr
Plus all of the extra health that stretches really far from all the dr

[main trellis]

its your main big one tho; 60%
then its good balance; 25% & shroudfield; 30% & weakspot kill; 15%
oh and Bleed for the emperor but that you can utilize even outside fatganus build... same for other talents...
i just wish SoC would not Suck & work differently - great talent idea but poor execution

[mighty belfry]

...Do you think SoC is the most important node for this build?

Because you've severely misunderstood the build then.

[main trellis]

many reasons; but for sure cause its popular cause it was hyped by prominent heads of the community so ofc it will be tried by the more experienced ppl in the most stressful environments

[low harbor]

SoC is kinda ok

[sand tendon]

my point was you don't know why they chose the build.... perhaps they thought it made sense and was a good build?

[low harbor]

It’s like
4s uptime, 4s downtime

The only issue is that it only activates from health damage taken

[woeful hill]

It's decent, way better in solo/clutch

[mighty belfry]

Which is particularly nice for the build that is built to use health as damage resistance.

[main trellis]

ofc i dunno; i don't talk to them; can only assume (and most likely it is correct to a degree cause reasons are plenty)

[manic wolf]

Thats Zealot's whole schtick to begin with

[woeful hill]

Yeah

The missile that runs around

[low harbor]

I think it’d be better if it could activate from toughness damage tbh

[sand tendon]

that's great because i do know why they chose it. i was the one who showed it to them and spent a bunch of time in vc while they were attempting solos

because the build is good

[main trellis]

and that if someone else takes a hit you don't get it

[mighty belfry]

But, that being said, regardless of SoC, you have so many other talents that are also contributing to your better than average damage resistance.

[low harbor]

That’s honestly not the big issue to me

[mighty belfry]

If they take health damage.

Most other classes are running more toughness to prevent that.

[low harbor]

It’s a really high amount of DR that only has 4s actual downtime

Anyone activating it immediately gets value

[mighty belfry]

You're the only one that's more prone to taking health chip, which means you're also the one benefiting from it the most by proxy.

Because the build is literally designed to work out that way.

[covert obsidian]

‘Rampage!’ no longer makes the player “exhausted” after use, the ability now simply ends.

thank you ObeseFish

[brittle sierra]

Did they ever fix the crate bug?

[mighty belfry]

no

[brittle sierra]

10/10 bug fix from Obese Megalodon

[eager reef]

inb4 they dont see it as an issue and it stays

until randomally getting fixed in 2 years

they woudl surely never do that....again..for the 3rd time

[zenith pagoda]

Anyone know the fastest way to get "Enhanced" penance?

I just make sure I have 50% viscosity stim and play normal games?

[sturdy linden]

Just spec 100% into the toughness line and use the replenishment node and run event missions. I got it in like 2 missions that way

The changes to the toughness line make it giga easy

[zenith pagoda]

For some reason the counter isnt going up

[sturdy linden]

Are you dodging every single hit ever and not spending a second in the gas

Because you do need to regain toughness to make it tick

[zenith pagoda]

Nope, I deliberately took damage, stimmed, then killed a tonne of stuff

[sturdy linden]

That's why the gas missions make it easy, the 5%/s from the stimm keeps applying when the gas is depleting it

[sturdy linden]

Huh, weird

[novel oracle]

Im so glad we removed the potential for uniqueness in favor of stat bucket duration #3

We're pulling out another scriers where the one thing that makes it different from the others is either removed or trivialized so hard you dont even need to pay attention to it

[covert obsidian]

I have a skill issue so I like it

[mighty belfry]

all they needed to do

[covert obsidian]

I always found it annoying asf

[mighty belfry]

was maybe make it a little more obvious when it was running out

or cut down the stamina debuffs a little bit

They did not need to axe the entire downside.

[novel oracle]

I wanted 0 talent cost subnodes that made the ability stronger but added an additional effect to exhaustion, and made baseline not have any effect

[mighty belfry]

Rampage is good but, it just doesn't feel very unique anymore :(

[sacred pilot]

enemies debuff us

our buffs shouldn't debuff us

talent tree -> makes us better

[novel oracle]

What if you got movement speed during it, but after the ability ends you have reduced movement speed

[sacred pilot]

enemies -> make us worse

[novel oracle]

We are allowed to have give and take

[sacred pilot]

Sure

[mighty belfry]

for what rampage provided, I was okay with it having a downside.

[novel oracle]

You can make something stronger and then add a noticeable downside to play around

[mighty belfry]

Because it was a lot of free damage.

[main trellis]

meanwhile scriers

[sacred pilot]

I just don't believe that in an environment with so few ways to make us better, one of the main things should also make us worse right after

[mighty belfry]

I just thought the stamina debuffs were a tad more punishing than they needed to be.

[zenith pagoda]

Oh it works now, it just bugged out for that game ig

[sacred pilot]

what's next? sore shoulder debuff after we shoot our rocket launcher?

[mighty belfry]

I mean everyone knows Scrier's is gigabusted.

We didn't need to level Rampage to that point.

[main trellis]

HS missed shoulder day at the gym

[sacred pilot]

I'm kidding, but honestly, I don't think downsides are necessary or fun. I want to choose between the best way to get better, not which perk makes me less worse.

[novel oracle]

The problem is that instead of expanding on how to interact with the downside
They just removed it as a thing altogether

[mighty belfry]

I liked that it had actual risk and reward to its usage.

[covert obsidian]

reminder, unique != good

[novel oracle]

Scriers and peril management was a big thing to care about when it was in its initial state
But we have removed the downside of peril management so much that you can be in scriers nearly 100% of the time without even thinking

[novel oracle]

But that doesnt mean it cant be

[mighty belfry]

Don't kek emoji me. I will die on this hill. These massive stat buffs imho should have some form of downside.

I do think Rampage's stamina debuff was a little much.

[novel oracle]

I didnt say "its unique so its good"
I'm saying "its unique so it could be made good"

But they didnt bother

[mighty belfry]

But if they simply adjusted that, it'd be fine.

[novel oracle]

And now its basically identical in function to scriers

As a paid dlc ability

What's cool about that

[mighty belfry]

I liked that I had to consider if it was a good idea to use Rampage or not as opposed to Scrier's just being universally available with no downsides.

[sturdy linden]

Surely we get Tech Adept this year which will be super unique and interesting in never before seen ways

Right guys

[novel oracle]

What about the ability itself makes me want to buy the dlc to use it

[sturdy linden]

Right??

[mighty belfry]

And Scrier's once upon a time was like that.

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah this penance is so annoying, especially since you can't really just take toughness damage without taking lots of health dmg

[fallen void]

which firemode should i keep my needler in

[mighty belfry]

green usually

[zenith pagoda]

The enhanced penance is bugged, where if I use my stim the second time, it no longer counts it

[mighty belfry]

The other modes are dependent on what you're running

like mk6 where honestly, you probably don't want to use the special mode or mk2 where you wanna try and spread toxin as much as you can through a horde.

[calm aurora]

i miss exhaustion

:/

[pulsar aspen]

Imagine Hive Scum being able to overdose themselves like in The Witcher

[lilac ermine]

Yay hive scum got buff it deserves

[mighty belfry]

Typical of Fatshark to just, not do things in increments

Almost like they haven't learned from the Dodge Linger scandal

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[lilac ermine]

Now they should buff some of the weapon like crowbar and bonesaw

And uzi and dual pistol

[bronze glade]

The psyker parallels in this class only get stronger