well he aint wrong its a cracked build
#hivescum-class
dull dagger
I need to try it out. I didn't see a build like this in pins so I assumed it wasn't very good.
main trellis
I need to try it out. I didn't see a build like this in pins so I assumed it was...
Lets just say Regi builds are just like many other youtubers builds
Unrefined
dull dagger
How does it compare to the builds in the pins?
near mauve
about the same tbh
main trellis
Like srsly; sometimes i feel whenever ppl upload smth they don’t test various options or approaches to archetypes of builds they use due to talent/blessing/perk choices…
Like its once again; quantity over quality
near mauve
the thing is u should never take a youtuber build and copy paste it
u should always adjust it for your playstyle
its a template and not a verse from a holy book
main trellis
fun > min maxxing
You can have both tho + some choices are questionable too
near mauve
eh some of the best min maxxed builds in this game are boring as shit
for example i only ever pick ogryn taunt if i dont wanna put it any effort
taunting is fun but its so comically broken lmao
main trellis
the thing is u should never take a youtuber build and copy paste it
u should al...
Unless it’s specifically said in a guide to not swap certain things
Some ppl did swap crucial things in my builds and lo & behold performance dropped
Thats why in my guides i type about choices & why certain things were chosen over others
Argumentation is important
near mauve
where do u post your builds
dull dagger
Tweaking builds to your own preference is all fine but it requires understanding of how those nodes work exactly, and I don't have the patience or the joy to do that. I'd rather find builds that are interesting / effective to save my sanity. 
main trellis
taunting is fun but its so comically broken lmao
De-elevates many problems oggy has… and does not cost 1 tax point like charge does 
near mauve
its very powerful and i like taunting abilities in games but it just feels like im playing easy mode
dull dagger
Thats why in my guides i type about choices & why certain things were chosen ove...
I wish more people on Lantern left notes in their builds explaining choices and/or alternative nodes. At the very least I'd like people explaining the general playstyle so I know what to expect. 
main trellis
where do u post your builds
I have a youtube channel where i post raw gameplay showcase of the builds & i attach in comment section a build link for gameslantern 
dull dagger
The Vet guide is good for that, shows alternatives.
I need to make a meme flowchart on "is this build good?" and all branches lead to "no".
main trellis
I wish more people on Lantern left notes in their builds explaining choices and/...
Thats what i do in my guides; also watching gameplay is another learning curve to see how the build operates & it trains in the watcher a skill of understanding why certain actions were done over others
Sadly ppl have tictoc brains
Most of them atleast
And its never that easy to just copy the build & get in there
Understanding is required
Atleast i can attest that many ppl who i shared my builds to said they had their performance & fun in-game elevated so thats a win for me to teach ppl new ways to enjoy the game & be effective in the team 
dull dagger
I think videos are a good format since as much as people like to dunk on CC builds, they showcase it, explain each skill point decision, explain how the build is going to synergise and be played etc.
Build might be ass but at least I now know how to play it.
main trellis
Build might be ass but at least I now know how to play it. <:kek:639522926185414...
Its not ass if its effective to you & your team
As for fun factor; thats subjective
fallen void
am i supposed to dump damage on needler
astral canyon
am i supposed to dump damage on needler
Ye
dull dagger
I like to find one super sweaty build for Havoc, and then everything else I don't care if it's meta since I'm probably just gonna be using it on aurics or below anyway.
My needler dump is stability. 🙁
main trellis
Some like playing book zealot for example like @pulsar aspen
Some ppl dunk on it saying its bad cause it ‚pauses the game’ and ‚takes zealot out of the game’ cause it does no dmg
I think of the latter lot as foolish
main trellis
I like to find one super sweaty build for Havoc, and then everything else I don'...
Only sweat is from your own actions not your build
This is not a PvP game
upbeat gyro
I wish more people on Lantern left notes in their builds explaining choices and/...
I just quickly add my builds there so i can easily take screenshot here and ask for advise, and tend to change em several times over until happy. So its more of quick sketching instead of creating some sort of template for others. And 0 likes so they dont get visibility anyway
If i had several likes and it would get visibility, then i might add notes on what to change for preferences
dull dagger
I just quickly add my builds there so i can easily take screenshot here and ask ...
I do the same but mine are not set to public so only people I share the link to can see the builds.
upbeat gyro
My builds are good, not because im great build maker, but because i use these discord class channels for feedback, so they get ironed out
And ill learn in the process too so can then make more solid bases for experimentation
Had really bad teams today in early havoc 20s, and one major reason was that people had quite awful builds. Veteran that ran out of ammo, didnt take the ammo regain aura. I kinda wish people paid more attention to it as its kinda make or break when you go higher difficulties. Not that the gameplay was perfect from any of us either.
Suprisingly many people still in havoc20s or so that would probably struggle in malice too without help of team carrying em
Struggled with desperado on Havoc mission with the gas thing going on. For those missions you should pick deploying stimpack ability?
Next time i see that ill try to deploy pack thing or just switch to rebreather arbi
dull dagger
This is the only game where even after I lower my expectations in difficulty, the team I find in malice somehow still manages to disappoint me.
main trellis
Struggled with desperado on Havoc mission with the gas thing going on. For those...
Its a rough matchup cause despy likes to run around & gas prevents that & puts you in small areas with limited movement options so ye
upbeat gyro
Its a rough matchup cause despy likes to run around & gas prevents that & puts y...
Yeah i got cornered, team got overwhelmed with 3 bosses and big waves and then gas ate my tougness
Captain with voidshield and flamer behind em protected by it, is nasty combo
Even RPG didnt get it
dull dagger
I'll be dead and check spectator to see how we're doing and this is the first thing I'll see.
dire badge
Hey guys the sword combo captains w swords or the sword Lt have that goes out rly fast. What's the dodge directions in order I need to hit? Because sometimes I'm dodging it and sometimes I get hit even tho I'm dodging
lunar lichen
I'll be dead and check spectator to see how we're doing and this is the first th...
Which difficulty is this 😮
upbeat gyro
From enemy density id guess Malice or Heresy
And down there, i guess its the place to do mistakes like that, hoping the player gets the lesson eventually
astral canyon
From enemy density id guess Malice or Heresy
Heresy
The player thats revived has only 2 wounds so it cant be under heresy
leaden fable
Which difficulty is this 😮
Lobotomite difficulty
astral canyon
Lobotomytide
bronze glade
I'll be dead and check spectator to see how we're doing and this is the first th...
average recon las vet
pulsar aspen
@main trellis Book? 
dire badge
I'll be dead and check spectator to see how we're doing and this is the first th...
He had no time to react
main trellis
Hey guys the sword combo captains w swords or the sword Lt have that goes out rl...
Opposite to where the sword goes in terms of charged swipes
Same as for chaos spawn
Also timing is crucial
nova valley
I'll be dead and check spectator to see how we're doing and this is the first th...
He switched side
dire badge
Opposite to where the sword goes in terms of charged swipes
Yeah charged swipes are already good it's just that one fast combo of like five attacks
main trellis
Yeah charged swipes are already good it's just that one fast combo of like five ...
4
You basically back away
Or block
Or parry
bronze glade
i take them on the chin like a real man
main trellis
Parry is best
tranquil berry
I prefer blocking then dying to a silent burster that materialized out of the void shield
dire badge
There's no way to dodge side to side to get damage in mid comho?
main trellis
There's no way to dodge side to side to get damage in mid comho?
Its a foolish idea to even try to attack in the middle of the flurry combo
Thats how ppl die to them
Also important
2nd attack in the flurry will ALWAYS go for another player if you are focused & another player is close by
Thats how ppl get hit too cause they think they are safe & get punished
dire badge
Okay but is there a specific way to dodge the combo so you don't get hit and get dmg in. Like how you have to dodge into chaos spawn arm and slide in
main trellis
Okay but is there a specific way to dodge the combo so you don't get hit and get...
Too fast & too risky to try to sneak in a hit
dire badge
I ain't here to play it safe, otherwise I'd play arbiters
pulsar aspen
I think there is a difference between playing save and taking needless risks
main trellis
Create space, wait for flurry to end or attack (if you wanna) when the second attack occurs & goes for someone else but i would not recommend it - utilize patience
main trellis
I ain't here to play it safe, otherwise I'd play arbiters
So you’ll lose alot then
Its your choice
main trellis
That's four seconds of rampage increase
Can rotate around but its still risky cause tracking
They can track you 180 degrees
Easily
pulsar aspen
Whenever there are events or situations that involve a Sword Captain, a lot of people get punished because they want do do damage and kill the boss without understanding the captain's behaviour
And on Havoc 40, such a mistake hurts a lot.
But, go and play risky if that is what you want to do.
upbeat gyro
I learned from Mr E vid to beware sword captains and laser pistols on em. Shotgun and blunt ones are easy.
Wish he would condence this info into 3min or so, instead of 30min, aint nobody got time fo dat
I should prolly install that mod that allows you to spawn em, so could train 1on1 against various bosses.
upbeat gyro
Yeah but still in psykhanium you could clearly see what they do without pressure
Usually with captains i just dodge circle around em and spam m1 hits, then occasionally they push you 5m away and you go in again
But if they got sword, im slightly more careful
pulsar aspen
Nothing beats field training
upbeat gyro
Like might back off if they comes at you
livid raven
i dunno i feel the most dangerous part of them is the people around them
arctic imp
Am I really expected to use pickpocket in havoc 40 as a hive scum?
I barely use any ammo but I just got cussed out for picking up a small box and not using pickpocket, mind you that was after I achieved a million damage while everyone was sub 500k.
I know damage isn’t everything, but is not taking pickpocket seriously that something to be upset about when I’m also the primary damage dealer?
astral canyon
Am I really expected to use pickpocket in havoc 40 as a hive scum?
I barely u...
If youre running ranged scum, yes
Otherwise nah
arctic imp
If youre running ranged scum, yes
Otherwise nah
Melee scum primarily. It’s shiv toxin, high crit high melee attack speed. I grabbed a single box(he was still on white) and he started screaming.
sturdy linden
Sounds like the average pub
mighty belfry
Am I really expected to use pickpocket in havoc 40 as a hive scum?
I barely u...
You are. Doesn't mean you have to do it and anyone who complains about it probably shouldn't be playing 40 to begin with.
Was it the host complaining about it if you know?
arctic imp
Was it the host complaining about it if you know?
I don’t think it was. He joined after I did. But he seriously started cussing me out after I denied letting him pick everything up—everyone knows there’s enough pickups for two people. Especially when I’m not even really using ammo.
zenith fern
I don’t think it was. He joined after I did. But he seriously started cussing me...
What class were they
Sounds like an ammo starving ogryn lol
arctic imp
Veteran, the thing is I wouldn’t have grabbed anything if his indicator was anything but white. But it was. So he was full/close to full.
mighty belfry
muted pivot
not sure what to put in my chemist stimm supply stimm
mighty belfry
That sounds more like a them problem than a you problem
muted pivot
running sample collector
mighty belfry
And if you're doing that much more damage than the vet
muted pivot
damage/crit, cdr is the way I normally see? Not sure how cdr even interacts with this
mighty belfry
The vet is doing something very wrong to begin with
arctic imp
damage/crit, cdr is the way I normally see? Not sure how cdr even interacts with...
I don’t do CDR unless the team’s cooldowns feel necessary/they actually remember to step in my stim supply
arctic imp
The vet is doing something very wrong to begin with <:KEKW_ogryn:102207718832290...
I just brushed him off, I don’t think he knew how unreasonable he was being
mighty belfry
Probably not.
I've had a few people be surprised I don't run pickpocket but none of them have accosted me for it.
Just more surprised than anything.
main trellis
Am I really expected to use pickpocket in havoc 40 as a hive scum?
I barely u...
I only take pickpocket for despy builds
On the rest it don’t matter; shits op
limber cradle
I find that if I use it with needler on a melee build I end up just using the needler
main trellis
I find that if I use it with needler on a melee build I end up just using the ne...
Every melee/support build that uses needler & pickpocket is basically a needler build; why melee ever - just shot your needler
limber cradle
Literally no punishment for repeatedly magdumping it
main trellis
Literally no punishment for repeatedly magdumping it
Thats why it should be despy subnode - range builds can be range builds while melee/support ones won’t be basically needler builds in disquise
arctic imp
Thats why it should be despy subnode - range builds can be range builds while me...
It’s silly that it’s considered necessary for builds that aren’t ranged. God forbid you steal “their” ammo
mighty belfry
It's not. You just have dumbasses that want all the ammo when they don't need it.
main trellis
It’s silly that it’s considered necessary for builds that aren’t ranged. God for...
Its not; micromanage your ammo usage & you’re gonna be good
arctic imp
Mayhaps I wouldn’t need the ammo if he was using his gun to kill specials 🤔
main trellis
Hes the issue then
mighty belfry
I think of it this way.
The only reason you're running pickpocket on a melee build for ammo constraints to be easier on the team
But at that point, are you really playing a good melee build if you need ammo that much to perform well that you'd need to pick a node for it?
Especially when you literally have an aura that also helps with that, that won't chip into your talent points?
livid raven
Isn't that aura a meme
livid raven
True it might be worse
mighty belfry
The only reason that node is considered a meme is because pickpocket exists.
livid raven
Anyway the survivalist vet is enough
livid raven
With words and thoughts
manic wolf
The aura isnt bad, but Pickpocket is so overbearingly strong it makes the aura a meme
mighty belfry
Thank you!
It's just pickpocket brainrot.
The aura is actually really good.
But pickpocket existing devalues it significantly.
manic wolf
If Pickpocket didnt exist it would be non-negotiable S-tier, but being totally self sufficient on ammo results in sharing ammo being less good, yeah
I wouldnt be upset if Pickpocket was just outright removed from the tree tbh
mighty belfry
This is just another example of pickpocket just being way too strong right now.
livid raven
I agree, they should nerf chem dep
manic wolf
Like Vet's lasgun ammo perk is borderline, but because its restricted to certain weapon types, it at least has something holding it back, Pickpocket just doesnt
limber cradle
I kinda expect pick to become salvaged ammo at some point
Which is VT2 BHs "kills in melee when totally out of ammo restore ammo"
Can't remember the exact percentage on it
livid raven
They should make it drain ammo from allies in coherency instead
mighty belfry
I'm pretty sure they're reworking it in some way given what's been posted here.
And it looks similar to that.
limber cradle
I still don't quite get how Scum shipped like it did
livid raven
I love when they kill a plsystyle like that
limber cradle
Logical
mighty belfry
I love when they kill a plsystyle like that
It needs to go.
manic wolf
So much about GunScum needs to go lol
limber cradle
I love when they kill a plsystyle like that
Oh no, you'll only have one source of effectively infinite ammo now
low harbor
It needs to go.
I have started updating weapon sections to include more detail
limber cradle
The literal only thing holding gun scum back is that it(subjectjvely) isn't very fun
mighty belfry
The fact that people are being full on toxic about others not running it because its as abrasively strong as it is? Yeah no that's in need of the hammer at this point.
livid raven
No that's very stupid sorry
mighty belfry
I have started updating weapon sections to include more detail
I need to take a look when I'm on break. Curious as to how that's coming out.
manic wolf
Remove VD, neuter Pickpocket, remove ranged immunity from Desp and have ranged DR instead and its mostly gonna be fine, but if any of those things remain as they are, it will always be abrasively strong, its just how it is
livid raven
Nerf survivalist too
low harbor
I need to take a look when I'm on break. Curious as to how that's coming out.
(I now give damage, finesse and ADM numbers for first target)
Also re-tested fire rates
low harbor
...V ADMs are better???
Déjà vu
low harbor
Well color me surprised.
Also I’ve updated knife, combat axe and power sword’s sections
They look way nicer than before tbh
low harbor
Wait
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/985983134275366943/1469268536873713785/new_format.mp4?ex=69870a74&is=6985b8f4&hm=a24990af0c195f263c056bd6fa60d0edf445d793093a209aa846ef26b0339793&
(there’s a mistake in here about spike’s finesse having a Mk V case, which is incorrect, this attack is only used by Mk VIII and is fixed in the guide)
exotic temple
I don’t get it either but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just assume that since I’m not running havocs I’m not running up against brick walls with bs
manic wolf
I don’t get it either but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just ...
It feels bad because its clunky
The damage is fine, good, even, but its slow, which means reacting to new threats on the fly feels like mush
Compare it to something like the Tac Axe where you can bash 5 different heretics in the mouth before you can finish one swing with the Saw
exotic temple
It feels bad because its clunky
I enjoy the move set, it’s more like chain axe with less impact but you get toxin damage
I’m still playing around with taxe, I get why people like it. The build I have just seems to work better with bonesaw
manic wolf
I enjoy the move set, it’s more like chain axe with less impact but you get toxi...
Theres nothing particularly wrong with the moveset, its just slow weapon with rip attacks inherently is gonna feel worse than something more reactive, at least for a lot of players
It kinda goes against the rapid-fire playstyle Scum tends to benifit from
exotic temple
Right which is why bonesaw typically devolves into light spam
bronze glade
saw is ass
they fucked up the moveset design so badly
and in terms of power, the weapon itself is just mid
it also subjectively does not feel good to play
it's really incredible how they've been managing to make melee weapons where the heavies are just dogshit for no discernible reason
sturdy linden
Might be intentional to make carapace feel more dangerous
Since it's their tool of choice for increasing difficulty
bronze glade
(they also introduced a weapon that's very strong against carapace in the same dlc)
(also an entirely new DOT that wrecks carapace)
mighty belfry
Might be intentional to make carapace feel more dangerous
Carapace is not even a weak point for saw though
To be clear, saw is good at single target and trash horde clear solely because of the toxin dots.
It's mixed horde clear where it really suffers.
sturdy linden
(they also introduced a weapon that's very strong against carapace in the same d...
yeah but ammo
mighty belfry
yeah but ammo
Shivs
bronze glade
yeah but ammo
fatshart: don't worry, we thought about that too
sturdy linden
oh right
mighty belfry
They also have toxin throwing knives
Which also brings me back to "why the hell would you need pickpocket on a shiv melee build"
exotic temple
I don’t get that either
spark gyro
Granted, I just get pickpocket because I'm gonna get hypercrit anyway
exotic temple
saw is ass
I’ll agree to disagree. Probably needle gun is carrying bonesaw so it doesn’t feel so bad but I don’t feel like I’ve ever died because the weapon was shite it’s always been because I’ve messed up somehow.
bronze glade
I’ll agree to disagree. Probably needle gun is carrying bonesaw so it doesn’t fe...
well like i said, in terms of power, the weapon is fine
or mid
it's just a really poorly designed weapon
and subjectively feels very bad to use
sturdy linden
very Jack The Ripper feels
exotic temple
I’ll agree they cooked with both marks of shivs but I feel like that’s why everyone feels like bonesaw sucks
They aren’t shivs
bronze glade
well shivs are def the golden boy of HIV unique melees
but saw is just a mess
same with cbar
zenith fern
Remember
Every class has their own dueling sword
Shivs are Scum DS 
But combat knife scum is more fun
exotic temple
I really want to like crowbar but stickies feel weird except on bill hook
Bill hook has the range to where it’s safe
zenith fern
I do like the hook hits but they feel wacky with the screen lock on target
exotic temple
Crowbar you have to play so strategically which would be fine if your ttk was higher than Rashad but Rashad exists and you get same as if not better ttk without stickies
More risk no to less rewards
mighty belfry
Shivs are Scum DS <:SCsmug:665881472875626507>
It's not because it can actually horde clear
final temple
ima be honest, Shivs fun but I prefer my saw.
manic wolf
Which also brings me back to "why the hell would you need pickpocket on a shiv m...
In all fairness on any melee-centric Scum build you don't need PP
Unless you like PP anyway, in which case...
manic wolf
Crowbar you have to play so strategically which would be fine if your ttk was hi...
Honestly if they just sorted out target priority for beak mode a bit, Crowbar would become infinitely better overnight
It shouldnt be getting stuck on random poxxies and groaners when you're trying to clap mauler skulls
bronze glade
it also needs to be faster in general
sturdy linden
wonder if that's even possible
making a weapon's swing prioritize one enemy type over another
manic wolf
Probably, they can do it with hitboxes, and its more or less the same thing
manic wolf
it also needs to be faster in general
Faster on mode swap, I certainly agree with that
bronze glade
yeah i'd like the latch to be a bit faster too
like yes it's very safe when there's just one crusher
but usually that's not all you're fighting
manic wolf
Yeah... same issue with Bonesaw, it kinda falls apart vs dense mixed horde
Like i could live with Bonesaw not getting improvements, but Crowbar desperately needs then as its such a cool concept
flat mist
i dont think any latching weapons have a place with how darktide difficulty is currently balanced
ie crusher clowncars
brittle sierra
Me latching onto the demon host: 
austere coyote
Like i could live with Bonesaw not getting improvements, but Crowbar desperately...
it's literally the weapon that made me pick up the class
it's the most Jacket Hotline Miami melee he has
spark gyro
i dont think any latching weapons have a place with how darktide difficulty is c...
Relic of a game with half the enemy count
limber cradle
it's the most Jacket Hotline Miami melee he has
I wanted so badly to use CBar
So, so badly
low harbor
i dont think any latching weapons have a place with how darktide difficulty is c...
it can be mitigated
spark gyro
It's funny how something as simple as sticking to an enemy can get tossed to the side with enemy count
Just an extra second or two of dedication
low harbor
make latching attacks also cause a minor stagger-only explosion near the player
and increase latching attacks' first target dmg
spark gyro
Granted, one of my biggest miffs is how they make stuff like revs a payoff mechanic
The bulk of the damage is in sticking all the way to the end
low harbor
that one needs change too
spark gyro
You can't do that reliably in the higher difficulties
low harbor
the payoff is not there for the amount of risk involved
limber cradle
It doesnt help that "the bulk of the damage" is still nothing in comparison to a shiv heavy
spark gyro
I wish these weapons were a consistent damage tick that you could just keep canceling to sort of deal sustained damage to the enemy instead
So instead of having something like 100>100>100>500, idfk, just make it all 200>200>200>200
spark gyro
Also another funky thing
We glue the camera to the enemy, but they can just walk away
Like mutants
Telekinetic revving
Emotional damage
astral canyon
Emotional damage
flat mist
make latching attacks also cause a minor stagger-only explosion near the player
...
what enemies would you want this to be staggering? just shitters or all the way up to ragers and crushers?
manic wolf
i dont think any latching weapons have a place with how darktide difficulty is c...
I mean, I don't disagree, but for the balancing to change there would need to be sweeping nerfs to all classes, big ones too. But noone is ready to have that conversation, so we have what we have
low harbor
what enemies would you want this to be staggering? just shitters or all the way ...
Ragers & maulers would be nice
And not a strong stagger
flat mist
I mean, I don't disagree, but for the balancing to change there would need to be...
i know you were being hyperbolic but like most of the people here are up for that i think
flat mist
its just fatshark and fear of review bombing from the unwashed masses
manic wolf
i know you were being hyperbolic but like most of the people here are up for tha...
Most of the people in here, yes, but the community at large will have full on rage-outs on reddit, and yes, review bomb the fuck out of the game if their favourite toy gets hammered
low harbor
I wouldn’t mind if power sword got bonked and falchion got 8-10 buffs to make it good
manic wolf
Hellderpers ruined an entire generation of gamers when it comes to balancing discussions
dull dagger
Man, there's always a trapper or a dog or a burster I don't hear in all the noise until it's too late.
exotic temple
I still hate trapper design. If they want something they can pierce through walls of armor and crap they should reskin life leaches
dull dagger
https://youtu.be/YtYQuUaHCLo
I'm planning to check this one out but this other one by him feels a lot more relevant to me; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUgd6oDEH7c
bronze glade
mr. e 🤮
upbeat gyro
The real Mr E
exotic temple
As a cast net enthusiast trappers make me go insane. Nets have to get center mass in the center or you just wallop things with the weight and it snags on everything
dull dagger
I think getting surrounded and losing my ability to dodge lethal attacks like sniper shots or crusher smashes is one of the most common ways I die, if we're not counting teammates shooting barrels or trapper/dog/burster RNG with no help.
bronze glade
positioning is king
exotic temple
Also flying net pulling you back with no tether is just like….extra stupid
dull dagger
Also say what you want about MisterE and Reginald, but they can clear Havoc 40 and I can't do that so they at least know some things I don't.
bronze glade
well they can clear h40 either due to getting carried or because of their mechanical skill
but what they say needs to be taken with a grain of salt
dull dagger
I cleared H40 because I got carried.
bronze glade
and in the case of Mr. E, the entire can of salt
exotic temple
40 k years in the future the only thing that seems to have gotten better is net designs
dull dagger
The guys said I did good but it was my first time, I definitely got carried.
bronze glade
the first time i had a h40 clear i accidentally poxburstered ainz twice with impact nades
oops
flat mist
The real Mr E
unrelated but you reminded me of this banger and i always appreciate when that happens
dull dagger
How is it I see ChocoB fight ragers in melee and dodge all their stuff where as if rangers get into melee with me I'm getting my ass beat.
Though I must say I am dodging them wayyyyy more on Scrum compared to my Vet.
Feels like on scum I get hit 1/10 times, on my vet it's like 10/10 every swing is connecting.
bronze glade
vet needs to push a lot more
dull dagger
Can you even push ragers?
bronze glade
you can't use dodging as a form of locomotion like you can on HIV
bronze glade
yeh
and psword is so strong that in some cases, you can just fight your way out of a bad spot
not always obviously
but sometimes it's an option
manic wolf
but what they say needs to be taken with a grain of salt
Ehh, Reginald is consistently on the ball with his takes, Mr E is the polar opposite lol
dull dagger
Okay that video actually got me taking pushes more seriously.
bronze glade
Ehh, Reginald is consistently on the ball with his takes, Mr E is the polar oppo...
Reginald has some pretty bad takes too
manic wolf
Reginald has some pretty bad takes too
On occasion, but nothing near to the same degree
bronze glade
On occasion, but nothing near to the same degree
yeah
i just don't think either of them are reliable sources of information
tho obv it's a matter of degree
dull dagger
Ehh, Reginald is consistently on the ball with his takes, Mr E is the polar oppo...
If there is one thing I have learned with my time on this Discord, it is that everyone is wrong, every build is bad to someone else, the best you can ever hope for is somewhat of a consensus, otherwise just do what works.
manic wolf
i just don't think either of them are reliable sources of information
Reliable source of information is Kuli for the most part, can't say I know of anyone else that consistent at this point
manic wolf
If there is one thing I have learned with my time on this Discord, it is that ev...
Nah, people have differing opinions, sure, but there are a lot of things people commonly agree on
woeful hill
If there is one thing I have learned with my time on this Discord, it is that ev...
indeed what happens when a game has so much skill variety and variables
bronze glade
Reliable source of information is Kuli for the most part, can't say I know of an...
i'd say kuli, path, and ryken are reliable
or as reliable as you can be in this shit game
manic wolf
i'd say kuli, path, and ryken are reliable
Don't know of Path and forgot about Ryken tbh, he's always pretty good too
bronze glade
Don't know of Path and forgot about Ryken tbh, he's always pretty good too
oh HOTE guide author
(path)
manic wolf
oh HOTE guide author
Idk what that is either lmao
astral canyon
On occasion, but nothing near to the same degree
The bonesaw glaze is insane
dull dagger
Nah, people have differing opinions, sure, but there are a lot of things people ...
I had the Veteran channel help me put together solid builds. I got into H40 and some guy has a mod that shows him what I'm using, and he's immediately like "Are you planning to run H40 with that?" You just can't win when it comes to builds or takes lol.
bronze glade
Don't know of Path and forgot about Ryken tbh, he's always pretty good too
yeah when Ryken's just going off vibes, he'll tell you. but when he's doing his research, he'll do his fucking research. i respect that.
bronze glade
Idk what that is either lmao
manic wolf
The bonesaw glaze is insane
It suits his style of play, can't fault him for that, but yeah. He do be liking something the lions share of people do not
manic wolf
I had the Veteran channel help me put together solid builds. I got into H40 and ...
With the in-game community absolutely not lule, just look at any random build people in the Mourningstar are running as an example of that... Or don't and save your sanity, up to you
dull dagger
oh HOTE guide author
I use that guide a lot since it does have builds, and also Veteran and Zealot kinda have a stock build at this point and every meta build is just a variant of that.
I've never seen anyone's builds.
bronze glade
I use that guide a lot since it *does* have builds, and also Veteran and Zealot ...
pretty much
dull dagger
Closest I've done is hit tab and see which weapon they're running.
dull dagger
TBH if I looked I wouldn't even understand what's good or bad.
When I play the game for a while on my Vet I start to learn which nodes are very strong / key a little bit, but then I take a break and FatShark puts out some patches and what little I knew is gone again.
Build crafting has never been my forte in games, I usually try to avoid it.
manic wolf
Provided you know the context of what is doing what, buildcrafting in DT is pretty easy, but the hardest part is finding the context of what stuff does
manic wolf
Terminus Warrant on Arb is a great example of it; Looks good from the stats, but is functionally worthless in practice
dull dagger
Yeah it's just trying to understand what nodes do exactly is such a pain. It feels like what I think it does and what it actually does are wildly different at times.
manic wolf
Even if all the tooltips were fleshed out enough to tell as much of the story behind stuff as they possibly could, they would still be subject to "live fire" practicality
dull dagger
Then I have to worry about overdoing it with certain stats, unless you got mods and you're testing things you're not sure if you're meeting thresholds or overkilling stuff too much probably without labbing.
exotic temple
It doesn’t help that you have to data mine the game to get useful information
manic wolf
No, that it most certainly does not
exotic temple
Or download a series of mods which you hope are accurate
dull dagger
Like with the amount of effort it takes, it's just so much easier to let people figure this all out, then a few months later come in and say "Hey I like X weapon, can I get help making a build around this playstyle?" then later on I can maybe ask about the nodes recommended to me, make my own tweaks, and ask for feedback on how my tweaks compare to the original build.
Only problem with my method is when I start getting more than a small handful of builds set up, it's hard doing that for all of them.
Like I spent a few days getting a buncha builds for Vet from the vet channel, I was happy with them in the end.
Then patch comes out and my builds get reset lol.
Speaking of which I need a Hammer of the Emperor guide for Scum.
Also I hear different takes on what is a dump stat on my weapons, not sure which is correct. How big of a deal is it to have the wrong dump stat?
bronze glade
depends on how off you are
dumping damage on a melee weapon is prob going to be really bad
dumping defense instead of mobility? might not matter
dull dagger
Yeah that I luckily don't do.
woeful hill
Also I hear different takes on what is a dump stat on my weapons, not sure which...
it really depends on weapon
like purg staff 60 compared to 80 quell speed is a 30% difference with the 1st quell tap
dull dagger
Like I got a crowbar with defences on dump, and another with mobility dump.
My bonesaw dump is mobility.
Same with my shivs, mobility.
Ruke of thumb is mobility usually to dump on, but then I run into stuff where that's not the case so it makes me paranoid. I don't want to invest my finite resources to enhance a weapon only to later realise I polished the wrong one.
woeful hill
mobility is always a safe dump, since the difference between 60-80 is very minimal for nearly every weapon + its not a damage stat
dull dagger
Oh and Needle gun for example.
compact oyster
mobility is always a safe dump, since the difference between 60-80 is very minim...
Also doesnt remove a dodge on all weapons
dull dagger
I assumed dump would be mobility, but I was told stability when class first came out, and I saw someone in here earlier say stopping power is dump.
dull dagger
Okay good, at least that means I don't have to start over with the one I have on stability dump.
woeful hill
ammo doesnt matter since pickpocket exists (oh no, 1 less shot in the clip)
sacred pilot
wha
dull dagger
I think I know how to inspect, not sure if I am reading them correctly.
woeful hill
1 min
dull dagger
I normally just inspect to see what sorta attack pattern they have.
Like does it do overheads or horizontal slashes etc.
dull dagger
Oh how do I even use the crusher effectively, I just got one for my Zealot today.
dull dagger
Ah, the video did say you will burn more stamina from pushing more often with it.
woeful hill
Push attack is its best attack for everything by far
mourningstar moment
Okay here
dull dagger
Okay I just put together that "chemist" build to try out.
woeful hill
this is the Power Output stat
woeful hill
the yellow number is what its currently doing then the bracket is the min and max [ (if stat is 0%) | (if stat is 100%) ]
woeful hill
Power output as in damage?
read the stat names
mighty belfry
push attack, then light attack
Or heavy if you want to throw all the front in front of you on the floor
dull dagger
Oh interesting, so it shows me my current damage and also my potential damage.
woeful hill
its effecting the special action of the crusher
with minor aoe/damage/stagger difference
dull dagger
Only two of them sound like damage, the others are like AOE stuff?
I know my bolt pistol has a blessing which buffs the explosion of the crusher.
woeful hill
yes
mighty belfry
That works with crusher special
woeful hill
its just for stagger
dull dagger
I think I only get 1 swing with special.
woeful hill
minor damage increase + alot of stagger
mighty belfry
It's your bulwark opener.
woeful hill
don't
yeah
only for stagger, I sometimes use it for the minor damage increase if I am sliding into an attack
since I have free time to do so
dull dagger
Oh, how do I use the bonesaw btw?
woeful hill
idk, I don't use it
from what I've seen in here, keep it on dot mode and hit enemies, and when crusher flip it
dull dagger
It's one of those weapons where the combos keep switchhing between single target and horde which always confuse me.
spark gyro
I recall mention that the horde combo is just light spam
mighty belfry
from what I've seen in here, keep it on dot mode and hit enemies, and when crush...
Not even. Toxin mode overall is just better for crushers
Only reason to use brittle mode is for bosses
dull dagger
I recall mention that the horde combo is just light spam
I figured it would be like heavy into light light or something for all horizontal slashes.
First light is a strikedown. :/
Do I need to do anything specific for this chemist build or just slashing/shooting with my chem weapons is just going to be it, and my passives just handle it?
Or is this one of those builds where you need to like push an enemy or dodge an enemy to trigger a thing that brings it all together.
Oh the stim crate seems to boost damage on the DoTs.
tropic crag
i use the tox dot on crushers, but i'm also simple minded
mighty belfry
Oh the stim crate seems to boost damage on the DoTs.
If you're running strength stimms, yeah.
tropic crag
like i don't like the folding shovels because that feels like too many steps
exotic temple
Reginald has a primer on bonesaw I like. The only thing I’d say is if you do rampage you basically just light spam outside rampage you can get fancier
dull dagger
The shovels do seem satisfying though.
Oh yeah I didn't watch that, will check it out. I saw his video on the needlegun though.
tropic crag
The shovels do seem satisfying though.
they used to be alot more, now adays they lost alot of usefulness because the crusher buff left them flapping in the wind
exotic temple
Rampage bonesaw is kinda meme
tropic crag
its really good tho, like all memes on scum
exotic temple
Oh yeah I enjoy it and if they ever fix the toxin nodes
It would probably be even more fun
tropic crag
lol yeah
honestly i think i prefer rampage bonesaw over box bonesaw but i take it with box alot to help a team
exotic temple
I might be coping but those buffs that got showed the other day do look interesting
tropic crag
i didn't even catch them, i've been stuck playing cairn for like a week
exotic temple
It looks like there were some buffs to the toxin nodes on the lower right side. I don’t know if they are gonna be goood enough to compete with pathing over to middle or left side but they look interesting
tropic crag
because people are so cold on them overall i could see them getting buffs, FS tends to buff more for fun than actual balance reasons
same reason they often nerf tbh
exotic temple
Right and I think rampage chem dep with toxic renewal and the dmg debuff on toxin is probably the tankiest build
spark gyro
And the DR from hive brawler
exotic temple
So if that gets buffed and you can keep dmg up…..
spark gyro
I think with hive brawler and rampage I can tank 2 overheads
Or rather, eat them and have a tiny sliver of health
Post-fatmangus world ruined the word "tank"
exotic temple
Right as an oggy main I’m jelly
But I wonder if the right move is fat ogryn with the 100% extra toughness regen below 50% hp talent
spark gyro
To my memory, toughness regen is specifically the coherency one
I think the one that dictates talents was "replenishment", but it's not like Fatshark is good at religiously using terms
exotic temple
I’ll have to try it later but I think it affects all toughness regen
spark gyro
exotic temple
Or replinishment
spark gyro
Most psyker talents outline "replenish", but then one of them uses "restore"
Go figure 
exotic temple
Most psyker talents outline "replenish", but then one of them uses "restore"
I’m dumb I should have known Kuli was already on the case
tropic crag
I think with hive brawler and rampage I can tank 2 overheads
in auric i think you can tank 3 if you're given a tiny breather between them lol
spark gyro
Real
dull dagger
This game has the most RNG ever when it comes to random matchmaking, it's truly a dice roll if my team will be terrible or competent.
bronze glade
that's why pubs are f un
dull dagger
Quickplay into train mission, gotta defuse bomb, rest of my team is off doing god knows what instead of covering me. I go down, it happens, respawn right next to the bomb minigame, no revive, we all die.
exotic temple
If train is on the map I don’t qp
tropic crag
This game has the most RNG ever when it comes to random matchmaking, it's truly ...
honestly? compared to most games its mostly good to great players in like auric and above... tho whenever there is a surge of new and returning players it gets a bit wonky for a few months
auric train map qp is usually a free win
exotic temple
I fucking hate train mission unless I’m running with people I at least suspect have functional brain cells
dull dagger
Yeah it's not aguarantee but auric tends to be much more stable since the less experienced players avoid it.
tropic crag
oh... i can't remember the last time i lost a train in auric
well since they fixed the sniper spawns on it
before that? yeah it was a toss up
exotic temple
Everytime it comes up on qp it’s basically load straight into a loss screen
dull dagger
I'm on damnation quickplay at the moment, haven't even unlocked auric for my scum yet.
tropic crag
but how it is now we almost always end with a ton of time left and usually no problems unless we do something silly like all fall of the train
oh yeah damnation qp is like old heresy now adays
dull dagger
What's wild is that if I swap to my vet to carry, I only match with LV30 experienced players who don't need help.
If I switch to my Scum to level it to 30, I match with LV23 guy shooting bursters point blank.
woeful trellis
game prolly tries to match you with characters of similar level
tropic crag
What's wild is that if I swap to my vet to carry, I only match with LV30 experie...
it might partially be because you're more experienced with the vet so you do more work without realizing making it so more "bad" people can slip by unnoticed
tropic crag
If I switch to my Scum to level it to 30, I match with LV23 guy shooting burster...
lol when i see this i start trying to shoot them faster
spark gyro
Quickplay into train mission, gotta defuse bomb, rest of my team is off doing go...
I was playing with a shield plant ogryn today that ignored me pinned by a dog right behind him
I don't mean a couple meters, I mean actual physical contact between both characters
tropic crag
shield planting oggy's are cute to me, they want to help so bad but don't have the means to actually help
spark gyro
One the positive side, at least the enemies flock to a certain spot
Could be worse, I guess
tropic crag
i give'em a pass and let them do their thing like when you let your sibling hold a controller thats not turned on
at this point in the games life i'd 100% rather have a shield planting oggy over a smite spamming psyker or a fistpumping zealot that only fistpumps at the weirdest times
exotic temple
The only time I ever plant my shield is when I walk into the open and there is a gunner line. Let them all get that attention seeker then dodge behind cover
tropic crag
i just shoot them and charge into them honestly
exotic temple
Free kills for everyone
tropic crag
but i also never play shield with oggy
or i slide into range of the taunt and just taunt them before crashing into them
and i don't meant the charge skill, i don't use that one like ever lol
exotic temple
I like implacable especially with shield since the movement is ass
But taunt is hard to pass up.
tropic crag
i usually run things like rumbler or GG that can distrupt from a distance so i can just walk over to the problem and bonk it... kind of play scum the same way tbh
but its easier to close the gap with scum
exotic temple
Right because the only weapon with decent movement stats is cleaver and they neutered cleavers
Because wtf not
tropic crag
I think the movement is mostly fine but i liked vt2 movement so maybe i'm just ok with slow
dull dagger
it might partially be because you're more experienced with the vet so you do mor...
Oh for sure, VoC and plasma gun solves so many problems when others aren't picking up the slack.
dull dagger
I was playing with a shield plant ogryn today that ignored me pinned by a dog ri...
Yeah I've had that a lot, I try to cut them some slack since usually they're swarmed so probably panicking. Still feels bad though.
exotic temple
Mk4 cleaver ogryn is funny af. Slap uncanny on that sucker and it’d probably be pretty gross
tropic crag
i mostly run shovel and paul in the current patch... paul for havoks
pretty much always taunt so i can use it when my movement isn't quite enough lol
dull dagger
Power sword / plasma gun combo has probably been my default thing since the game came out.
tropic crag
Oh for sure, VoC and plasma gun solves so many problems when others aren't picki...
even more because you know how to use those tools from time spent on them... lol if you put me on a plasma gun vet i would suck hard
dull dagger
And I still struggle.
spark gyro
I think the taunt shield combo really only gets bad in the same way smite does: when the player straight up doesn't know how to do anything else and keeps pushing forward doing the same thing
dull dagger
even more because you know how to use those tools from time spent on them... lol...
Anyone can play plasma gun, you just left click anything lol.
spark gyro
When it's less "I saw the situation and understood this would be my best course of action" and more "I saw the situation and understood nothing of it, I'll default to the safest thing I know"
tropic crag
Anyone can play plasma gun, you just left click anything lol.
my brain, has been corrupted by slayer
spark gyro
tropic crag
i will put my gun away after missing four times on an easy shot then land 5 easy headshots with my melee weapon that changes angles constantly
spark gyro
I couldn't play Bardin, the height difference was so weird
tropic crag
going from slayer to ogryn was rough... he's as short as an oggy can be... all my characters are as short as i can make them in dt
when i first started playing DT i kept swinging waaaaay high
but yeah my aim isn't great with hitscans at all, i'm pretty good with projectiles (so i am actually really accurate with the rumbler and GG) because of alot of overwatch time
but i can't aim hitscans very well at all so i miss alot with alot of guns in this game
and plasma might as well be hitscan if its not actually one
so i waste alot of shots
when i use the bistol or heavy las pistol i aim center mass
dull dagger
my brain, has been corrupted by slayer
I think power sword takes a bit of getting used to but plasma is honestly fully braindead.
You don't even use alt fire or anything.
tropic crag
lol i mean i'm not useless with it, but i can't carry with it i guess i'm saying
i can carry harder with a melee shovel build on vet
or like a chainsword maybe now that i've put more time on it with scum
dull dagger
I don't think it's possible to screw it up unless you try to right click with it and blow yourself up, or just miss all your shots.
I don't even aim for heads most of the time, I just whipe out and aim center mass.
Rips through everything.
The fact that left click spam puts you at zero risk of blowing up is hilarious.
At least on the psword I had to learn how to make space to charge it, especially since getting hit cancelled the charge, so learning to push and charge, or dodge properly, learning to use push attacks on crushers. Took me a while to go beyond just spamming left click.
The fact that someone can ping a trapper behind 600 trash mobs and you can just aim where the ping is and fire the plasma, and that round just penetrates the whole map to kill the trapper is
I don't get this chemical dependancy keystone.
How would I get 3 stacks.
I got 1 stimm on a cooldown, no?
spark gyro
Yeah, you just keep using it
dull dagger
Oh so just spam that one stimm off cooldown for 10% CDR.
I thought there'd be some strat for getting 3 stacks lol.
astral canyon
Oh so just spam that one stimm off cooldown for 10% CDR.
30% at full stacks
dull dagger
Yeah but how would you get full stacks.
astral canyon
Also 15% crit and 15% tdr
astral canyon
Yeah but how would you get full stacks.
Spam your stimm
spark gyro
It tends to work better with stimm supply, but you don't really need it
Or rather, stack easier
dull dagger
Spam your stimm
You lose a stack every 90s, wouldn't you just be losing the stack you get trying to spam your stimm?
astral canyon
No?
tropic crag
I don't think it's possible to screw it up unless you try to right click with it...
lol its the second one... when its a slow moving projectile i can hit it easy, if its a fast one or a hitscan i end up missing all the time by leading by habit because all my aiming practice in games is with projectiles, melee aiming is kind of like projectile aiming so i'm good with that
astral canyon
Youre taking sample collector on the pathing already
spark gyro
You just get a stack when using a stimm, and you have between 90s to 60s to stimm yourself again
Once you reach max stacks, you technically have double the time to max the stacks again, provided you don't care much about missing a single stack for half that time
tropic crag
yeah its super easy to keep max stacks when you're at 3
dull dagger
Opposite for me with aim, I miss a lot with needlegun since I'm so used to hitscan weapons usually.
tropic crag
yeah they are way different skill sets, alot more aiming with movement with projectiles
dull dagger
Did the rocket launcher blitz get buffed? I remember people saying it was the weakest of the 3 early days, now I see it praised a lot.
bronze glade
it was uber buffed
tropic crag
yeah right before FS went on their vacation
bronze glade
basically better ogryn nuke
dull dagger
I think that was one of the big problems.
tropic crag
and more damage
bronze glade
and one shots crushers outside of havoc
tropic crag
it 1 shots packs of things
dull dagger
Dang, I need to bring that along lol.
bronze glade
ogryn nuke wished it could do this
fucking bot removing my links
that's cooll
dull dagger
I always get anxiety in this game tossing grenades at my feet or firing bazookas point blank at enemies.
tropic crag
i prefer tox pocket sand still but the rocket launcher is great... the tox nade is also good but like... the most boring and "worst" of the bunch probably unless you can't get the tox blitz node but you still want tox on your blitz
dull dagger
I think I like all the blitz' on scum so far, though the stagger grenades I probably utilise the worst.
Normally find myself tossing them at bulwarks or ragers to get an opening./
tropic crag
they are all really good tbh
tropic crag
Normally find myself tossing them at bulwarks or ragers to get an opening./
honestly because of how they regen they are a "i need/want space" button
dull dagger
One grenade box basically fully refilling all the rockets is kinda nice.
tropic crag
you can also use them to save someone from getting smacked at a distance
dull dagger
honestly because of how they regen they are a "i need/want space" button
Fulfils the purpose of my frags on Vet, I can dig it. I normally feel like horde clear is my biggest weakness on vet.
dull dagger
Man I forgot about Arby nades.
Arby release was the best for matchmaking.
Even bad players weren't failing missions in quickplay.
tropic crag
lol it was a very comfy class out of the gate, i still use it sometimes because the arby maul is a fun weapon
dull dagger
I think it was worth what I paid. Can't replace my Vet as my "default" class, but like you I enjoy jumping on for a few runs for the abilities / weapons.
Actually don't like the dog though.
Spam pinging to sic the dog on enemies feels so gross.
tropic crag
i get the dlc classes as they come out at the very least to have more things to have fun with when i dont' want to play my main classes... but in scums case it kind of became one of my main classes
dull dagger
I really like the concept of Scum's playstyle, I think I'll play it more than Arby.
tropic crag
the jump from a slayer mindset to a scum is very very small
dull dagger
Both Arby and Scum blitz feel wild compared to base classes though.
mighty belfry
Scum other than some particularly imbalanced things, honestly feels like how a dlc class should feel.
tropic crag
oggy has 2 really good blitz options i feel
mighty belfry
It's really strong but you actually do need to know what you're doing to utilize that potential fully.
tropic crag
like rock and box do work and are unique and fun
bronze glade
i'd say rock is the only good og blitz
dull dagger
The arby shock mines stick around for so long, and the chem nades on scum too.
tropic crag
The arby shock mines stick around for so long, and the chem nades on scum too.
i feel like those are the two weakest options also (still strong tho)
dull dagger
Maybe I'm just overrating how strong AOE "the floor is lava" blitz are, which my vet doesn't have.
tropic crag
Maybe I'm just overrating how strong AOE "the floor is lava" blitz are, which my...
maybe, i feel like they aren't as flexible as things like the arby nade and they don't wipe the board as fast as things like the rpg
mighty belfry
vet has 2 good blitzes
3*
tropic crag
like they are good, just less flexible in how they function
bronze glade
3*
one of them is only worthwhile in havoc, which automatically disqualifies it from being a good blitz
tropic crag
its why the 5 second box on scum is better than the 20 second one, it gives you more flexibility
dull dagger
I think smokes are good on Vet but I get the feeling that you only really value smokes grenades at high diffs like Havoc, and if you're in Havoc you probably got a Psyker with bubble so you just never bother with smokes.
tropic crag
someone who's good with smokes can make the game alot safer
a good smoke vet makes me feel way safer than a bubble does
mighty belfry
It's not that smokes are bad though.
dull dagger
its why the 5 second box on scum is better than the 20 second one, it gives you ...
But the stimm is still active for 15s so basically you get the same time, but have full mobility now.
At the cost of a skill point of course.
mighty belfry
If that were the case, bubble would be a nonpick because it serves the same purpose.
dull dagger
The build I'm using has that, and the one that makes the box explode.
tropic crag
But the stimm is still active for 15s so basically you get the same time, but ha...
exactly, the main "downside" is that your team has a much smaller window to get the buff as well
but the team getting the buff is just a bonus so who cares lol
mighty belfry
It's mainly that vet's other blitzes are just more applicable for general play
dull dagger
but the team getting the buff is just a bonus so who cares lol
How big is the radius? Similar to VoC or like much smaller?
bronze glade
If that were the case, bubble would be a nonpick because it serves the same purp...
guess who never takes bubble outside of havoc
dull dagger
TBH bubble is nice during this event since it protects from the gas I think.
tropic crag
It's mainly that vet's other blitzes are just more applicable for general play
yeah i'd agree... you really have to like smokes and learn how they work to make them shine, like your personality almost has to become "smoke vet player"... with the other ones you kind of just... use them
tropic crag
How big is the radius? Similar to VoC or like much smaller?
its pretty small... like... the size of a GG explosion maybe?
sorry i measure things in oggy
dull dagger
its pretty small... like... the size of a GG explosion maybe?
Eh in that case, I might drop it right next to a friend but beyond that I'm not worrying too much.
tropic crag
but the buff is massive to share with the team so it being a smaller radius make sesnse
tropic crag
Eh in that case, I might drop it right next to a friend but beyond that I'm not ...
yeah, use it as you need it, not as the team needs it... but like... yeah if someone is right there may as well buff you both
dull dagger
Yeah a video was showing how it benefits Oggy stagger/dammer, or Psyker inferno.
mighty belfry
guess who never takes bubble outside of havoc
But there are quite a lot of psykers who do.
lavish parrot
Is it a good idea to make a bonesaw build that relies on puprle mode and not toxins?
dull dagger
TBH the inferno one looked like ass, but I probably just missed the point on that one.
bronze glade
And there's a reason for that.
yeh cuz they're bad 🙂↕️
bubble and smoke are both unnecessary in aurics and below
tropic crag
Is it a good idea to make a bonesaw build that relies on puprle mode and not tox...
i think its a workable idea tbh, its not "optimal" but i think it would probably work with hyperviolence
like a good meme build
bronze glade
you're better off with damage options
unless
you get hit all the time
and need a crutch
dull dagger
I think the only time bullets scary me below Havoc is on my Scumb where it feels like 1 bullet removes my entire toughness bar lol.
Otherwise on Vet I just shoot all my problems away.
and VoC the rest.
tropic crag
on oggy gunners are scary in auric still sometimes
on lil'uns bullets are pretty chill
dull dagger
Never tried Ogryn or Psyker yet.
mighty belfry
and need a crutch
Or they wanna play field medic. Because smokes or bubbles tbh are good for saves even in auric
tropic crag
ogryn requires you to relearn what a "good place to fight" means
mighty belfry
And since we're talking auric
dull dagger
On Havoc even basic enemies felt like they were tearing through toughness, not even like full on gunners, just trash mobs with guns.
bronze glade
Or they wanna play field medic. Because smokes or bubbles tbh are good for saves...
they should go play overwatch
mighty belfry
...you probably can get quite a bit of mileage off of them
bronze glade
smoke / bubble is totally unnecessary in aurics. i won't complain if a teammate runs them
but i wouldn't run them personally
there's just no need
waste of a slot
opportunity cost is too high
tropic crag
On Havoc even basic enemies felt like they were tearing through toughness, not e...
its because there is no toughness grace period in havoc, in all other modes you get like... iframes on your toughness against ranged enemies with that window shrinking as difficulty goes up
bronze glade
it's like picking chorus over fury zealot
tropic crag
and it being gone at havok
dull dagger
smoke / bubble is totally unnecessary in aurics. i won't complain if a teammate ...
Man I felt like the bubble from our psyker was very clutch, made my life so much easier.
dull dagger
its because there is no toughness grace period in havoc, in all other modes you ...
Oh I see.
bronze glade
it can be helpful, not helpful enough for me to skip SG
tropic crag
so like on auric when you get shot and lose toughness you can't get shot again for a tiny bit... in havok its just plink plink plink
dull dagger
That explains a lot.
tropic crag
lol yeah, to me its the true hard part of havok
dull dagger
Bubble allowed me to focus on melee hordes without those ranged mobs firing at me non stop at the same time.
mighty belfry
But thats my thing though. Bubble and smokes are still useful for what they do. They're not "bad".
tropic crag
bubble is good but standing in the spots that some psykers put them down feels like they are trying to kill us
mighty belfry
Thing is
bronze glade
But thats my thing though. Bubble and smokes are still useful for what they do. ...
well now the goalposts have moved
the original point this entire time
was whether smoke was a good blitz
dull dagger
Haha, I guess so yeah, I think our guy knew what he was mostly doing. They told me what my job was and I just focussed on my job and prayed they kept me alive, which they did.
bronze glade
and since they're pretty pointless outside of havoc, i don't think they are
lavish parrot
i think its a workable idea tbh, its not "optimal" but i think it would probably...
I see
tropic crag
smoke can be good, but like... its so niche that its not even good with all teams
bronze glade
bubble arguably has more utility outside of havoc
smoke? nah
most pubbies have no idea what to do with smoke
not that i care about supporting them
dull dagger
If I bring smokes to Auric or lower I'm basically doing it for roleplay purposes.
tropic crag
I see
if i remember right it amps your damage in such a way that you can get good use out of HV... i remember someone who was trustworthy talking about it but it was a while back
so i'm hazy on it
bronze glade
i literally only take bubble to nerf myself
otherwise it's not fun playing psyker with both SG and DD
tropic crag
i only use SG... i've also never used a staff on the space wizard
only stab and shoot
SG can feel like cheating sometimes tho
bronze glade
yeah its dumb
dull dagger
So did a run with the "chemist" build, the chem dot on the bonesaw felt very underwhelming. It's not like bleed DoTs where one slash and the trash mob dies. I'd slash a zombie and would need a second slash to kill it. Maybe it's because my weapon isn't fully levelled yet, but I'm also palying on a lower difficulty to account for that.
mighty belfry
Honestly I think the main issue regarding bubble/smoke
Is not that the blitzes aren't good.
spark gyro
Static
mighty belfry
It's that the game around them has changed.
spark gyro
We like to move-it move-it?
mighty belfry
Because truthfully you're not wrong. Even for what they can do, they're just not that useful in auric even if in theory, what they do is actually really damn useful
It's just that player power is so sky-high and guns are just not enough of a threat to see the value in them.
spark gyro
One might argue that they scale inversely with player skill
If the player is already good at dodging the gunner family tree, do you even need to use the bubble?
mighty belfry
One might argue that they scale inversely with player skill
I do not believe this at all because then smokes wouldn't be so powerful in Havoc.
Same with bubble actually.
spark gyro
Havoc can be a bit of a different story, at least from what little I experienced of it
dull dagger
I'm terrible at that, didn't even know I could dodge it. My solution was to just kill them with plasma or helbore.
spark gyro
Sliding, for some reason, was much harder
I think it might've been that toughness grace period from one of the modifiers
mighty belfry
Because some absolutely cracked players with those things will seriously change how engagements will fare across the board.
spark gyro
Couple that with lower toughness, and shit can get real deadly
I tried to play like I do in auric, bumrushing shooters with sliding, and it was... man, I felt like I didn't know how to play the game anymore
mighty belfry
With auric. There's just, not much to change because the threats just aren't as significant.
lavish parrot
if i remember right it amps your damage in such a way that you can get good use ...
Something like this?
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1050d09-6ac5-4129-9d63-73dd5b0264e5/what-if-it-was-purple-tho
mighty belfry
Which is kind of an issue with... everything. Across the board.
dull dagger
I hope to play half as good as ChocoB some day. This guy seeminly uses no mods, no crazy FoV, will run Devil's Claw in H40 and do better than I can with meta stuff.
bronze glade
It's just that player power is so sky-high and guns are just not enough of a thr...
smoke needs to do more
spark gyro
No, like
bronze glade
i think bubble is fine
spark gyro
I'm not too sure, but I think the toughness grace period that gets removed might be some kind of hard limit to how many times you can take toughness damage per interval of time
mighty belfry
Smoke is considered a better bubble lol
spark gyro
And that in reality, I get hit a lot more than I think I do, but the damage might get ignored or something
bronze glade
smoke is prob better bubble in havoc
spark gyro
And when removing that limit, I suddenly start playing like a baboon
bronze glade
since priorities are different
spark gyro
Because I actually do, but the game protects me
Maybe, idk what toughness grace is
Though I'm not too sure either because it also feels like this grace period I'm thinking of isn't even that big, since standing in front of a gunner gets me several damage ticks per second
mighty belfry
smoke is prob better bubble in havoc
No like by design. They pretty much serve the same purpose.
tropic crag
Something like this?
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1050d09-6ac5-4129...
personally i would probably drop float like a butterfly, slippery customer, regain posture, and jittery for more nodes down lower but also like... keep any of those nodes you're attached too because they're the types to mess you up if you're used to them and drop them
tropic crag
but yeah you got the general idea i think
spark gyro
Demolish the unbelievers
bronze glade
No like by design. They pretty much serve the same purpose.
well shield also gives serious toughness regen
that's a pretty big deal for auric pubbies
smoke just confuses pubbies
tropic crag
Something like this?
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1050d09-6ac5-4129...
and if you really want to commit to the duelies as a side arm then maybe try to grab the tox blitz node to help you when you get crowded by crushers or something
because you can kill them but not super safely when they group, maybe test that and see if the tox ticks help the ttk enough to care
lavish parrot
and if you really want to commit to the duelies as a side arm then maybe try to ...
Good idea actually
tropic crag
you can also try a chem dep build with it and see if that works with the crit stacking but idk, that would be just testing things
rampage and adren is def the safe bet
mighty belfry
I dunno, I just know that I can't slide for shit in havoc
Sprint slide, dodge slide.
Gotta chain your movements to cross gunlines in havoc
dull dagger
Don't think I even use dodge slide, didn't know I could slide off a dodge.
I normally just sprint slide constantly.
spark gyro
I do, but I don't think I do it enough in havoc, apparently
mighty belfry
Don't think I even use dodge slide, didn't know I could slide off a dodge.
Crouch quickly after dodging.
spark gyro
It works just fine in auric and maelstrom
mighty belfry
Genuinely one of the most important movements in this game.
Will save your life in many pinches.
Just have to keep in mind that it takes up two dodges so you'll run out quicker.
That's why it's good to try and chain sprint sliding into dodge sliding instead of just dodging sliding only.
Since all sprint sliding will do is cancel dodge recovery.
tropic crag
i don't dodge slide tbh, i pretty much always sprint slide, its hard for my hand to do a dodge slide
but also i tend to use outdated movetech to move around fights so i kind of work around it
spark gyro
I started leaning out of dodge sliding after I realized I did it too much
dull dagger
Crouch quickly after dodging.
Okay this feels like it could be very powerful, but I need to develop muscle memory for it.
mighty belfry
i don't dodge slide tbh, i pretty much always sprint slide, its hard for my hand...
I bind my dodge to side mouse button to make it easy tbh
tropic crag
I bind my dodge to side mouse button to make it easy tbh
i use the one easy to hit on for special attacks
dull dagger
I need to clip every time I go down so I can ask what I could've been doing.
tropic crag
not going down
(sometimes tho you're just gonna go down, even the best players stub their toe on a box and get netted as they dodge nowhere)
dull dagger
I'm defo making fixable mistakes though.
Like how I allowed myself to get circled, or not prioritising higher threat target first etc.
tropic crag
usually getting surrounded is a simple movement mistake, like you let all your slots get filled instead of forcing them to keep walking back to slots, the more you move in a circle the easier it is to do without thinking but you can't just full circle all the time because that will trap you in other ways
so like half circles
some people prefer to drag backwards
target prio is just something that should be building up in you as you play... like the more you get killed by situations the better you should get a spotting the bad ones
mighty belfry
You hear bombers. You look for bomber.
You hear trapper. You look for trapper.
You hear flamer- so on and so forth.
austere coyote
you don't hear trapper because of a sound queue bug, trapped and the vet goes down 2 and a half seconds later to a mauler he also didn't hear
so it goes
river burrow
Yeah, I gotta say, most of the time these days I don’t even hear audio cues until there’s literally a trapper/burster already right on top of me
dull dagger
Yeah I don't hear shit sometimes until they're right up in my ass.
tropic crag
You hear bombers. You look for bomber.
you hear bomber, hear bomb land near you, think "i'll get that bomber later", forget about bomber, second bomb lands, think "i'll get that bomber later"
sturdy linden
ime bombers/trappers/flamers/even snipers are bigger run enders than any rager clown car / carapace patrol ever
dull dagger
It's less about the specials and more about elites. The way my team died last mission is a good example, where nobody dealt with gunners and we all went down, with me last, trying to reach the gunners from open terrain and slowly taking them out until director spawned in like 4 bursters 2 chargers and 3 trappers on my ass.
mighty belfry
Sounds like you just didn't have a great team honestly
Which. Yeah that's kinda par for the course as of recently.
Auric's kind of a mess with the player pool rn
dull dagger
Maybe I should have used needlegun to take out the gunners sooner. I did try and killed a few, but there were a ton, and we had a boss to deal with, plus hordes. So I could only flick a couple of gunners while trying to dodge melee and DPS boss.
This isn't even on auric btw, this was damnation.
woeful trellis
generally speaking you should try to avoid pushing gunners if there's horde + boss
if you can back up into cover you should
dull dagger
Lemme see if I still got the gameplay in the backlog.
woeful trellis
otherwise you just gotta pray
tropic crag
unless you are gonna be the one who is handling the gunners... sometimes the team will have the boss and stuff under control you are better peeling off to handle that threat but yeah... situations are fluild like that
river burrow
ime bombers/trappers/flamers/even snipers are bigger run enders than any rager c...
100%. The most lethal things in my runs are always bombers, trappers, busters and barrels.
mighty belfry
Honestly situations like that are why I prefer bistol over needler for melee builds
bronze glade
i like bistol but it requires one more talent point
mighty belfry
Lets you control the situation better
dull dagger
Okay I got the clip, converting now.
bronze glade
i can't hit the one shot breakpoint against gunners without the close ranged damage talent on the top
dull dagger
It's like 4m long though.
But didn't want to clip a tiny portion since I figure I should have lots of context.
mighty belfry
i can't hit the one shot breakpoint against gunners without the close ranged dam...
I don't care about killing the gunners. I care about staggering and suppressing them.
So I can rush up to kill them.
Or worse case scenario, I can just double tap.
dull dagger
So yeah this is where we failed. We go into this open area, boss spawns in, gunners shooting into the building non-stop. I try to use that building as cover to deal with boss / horde first, but I go down and so does the team. I get picked back up, deal with boss, try to needle some gunners and push across the open gunfire to get into melee range, then all the specials start getting spammed on me before I can figure out where to go to revive my team.
mighty belfry
The trick is to think of it as though you have temu blackouts basically
With the wonderful boon of having some crazy boom bringer radius.
Yeah it's not the best to use as an actual ranged weapon obviously but the utility of staggering most of the game's roster is not to be underestimated.
And if you're running something where most of your damage will be melee based, it works out just fine.
Unless you run desperado and pickpocket with a ranged build. Then it's actually really strong.
dull dagger
I feel like I need to get moving in that situation but I don't know where tf to go when I'm being constantly bombarded by specials.
woeful trellis
when you aren't sure where to go, the answer is almost always backwards
because you know there's nothing there
dull dagger
But the team is up ahead, shouldn't I be heading to them so I can revive ASAP?
woeful trellis
except for horde that might spawn, but horde can spawn anywhere
no
you only revive when the situation is under control
mighty belfry
But the team is up ahead, shouldn't I be heading to them so I can revive ASAP?
This is a very common mistake.
bronze glade
The trick is to think of it as though you have temu blackouts basically <:KEKW_o...
makes sense
woeful trellis
the fastest way to get the situation under control is to back up and kill everything
dull dagger
I'm on my own, situation is never under control.
mighty belfry
Only revive when you know you can guarantee it.
Easier said than done admittedly. I still make that mistake sometimes.
woeful trellis
ok yeah if you have some form of stagger on you, you can force a revive
dull dagger
So that's what I should have done in that clip?
woeful trellis
but it's risky and bonesaw + needle + crate has no stagger
mighty belfry
Straight up, ya
woeful trellis
the moment you saw the boss hp bar appear on screen while fighting those gunners, the entire team should have backed up
kill boss while being safe from gunners, then push forward again and kill them slowly
dull dagger
Hm, now that I think about it the guys I ran Havoc with were always more than fine of retreating temporarily to control the situation more.
woeful trellis
if you have pickpocket there's no ammo pressure, just kill everything slowly with your infinite ammo
dull dagger
What if I'm with randoms though, should I still do that if they're not going to come with me?
woeful trellis
idk
bronze glade
but it's risky and bonesaw + needle + crate has no stagger
booby trap unironically an ok take on that setup
mighty belfry
Hm, now that I think about it the guys I ran Havoc with were always more than fi...
Because it's usually not just a good idea in regular play.
It's fundamental in Havoc.
dull dagger
In that case they're all dead so it's just my call to make.
woeful trellis
yeah usually in aurics if your team is decent you can just steamroll everything
mighty belfry
Everytime a boss spawns in havoc, a team that knows what they're doing will always move back.
Especially so if someone goes down in a very uncontrollable situation because they can cheat the spawn and get one closer if they backtrack enough.
zealous ravine
the best teams pray to the emperor hold w and let faith protect them trust me
dull dagger
In Auric or below when boss spawns in our Zealot tries to push to the end of the map on his own and then brings everything he agros back to us while we fight boss.
Then is the first to quit when he goes down.
mighty belfry
I haven't seen a zealot doing that in quite a while lmaooo
That's a trope with this game.
dull dagger
Also guys I played havoc with, when I die, would like try to rush places with a countdown.
I think they memorised all the respawn points and are trying to force the game to spawn me in a more advantageous place.
woeful trellis
one other thing i would note is that 5 direct hits with needler = max toxin stacks, then you can just refresh them with 1 shot every reload (or any hit with bonesaw). no need to keep dumping needles into a boss
mighty belfry
I think they memorised all the respawn points and are trying to force the game t...
Yes.
dull dagger
one other thing i would note is that 5 direct hits with needler = max toxin stac...
Good to know. Is the alt fire on the needler worth using?
dull dagger
I'm still getting the hang of this build so just doing whatever on it, trying to figure out how it all works.
mighty belfry
Good to know. Is the alt fire on the needler worth using?
On mk6, no. Mk2 however, different story.
dull dagger
Yeah mine is Mark 2.
mighty belfry
Mk2 does aoe toxin and enemies hit by it will explode with aoe toxin as well.
dull dagger
Does it have to kill the initial target to spread it?
dull dagger
It feels good against weak hordes but feels bad against groups of crushers and such.
mighty belfry
Yeah, it's not very good for single target like the primary fire is.
Which is the point.
dull dagger
I noticed in that clip I was forgetting which mode I was on, so I was hitting boss a bunch with alt fire instead of my main one.
mighty belfry
I mean, it's still toxin. Just won't build up as quickly.
dull dagger
Alt was like 2 stacks per shot and main was like 6, no?
mental trellis
6 vs 3
mighty belfry
But its pretty good. Or honestly kind of stupidly broken with pickpocket.
dull dagger
As long as I don't miss my ammo is infinite.
No pressure.
I've not really had a chance to trigger pickpocket yet.
Maybe that's a sign I need to spam more needles.
woeful trellis
on auric there is prolly enough ammo to go around, unless your entire team is ammo hungry
dull dagger
I did try the bazooka blitz and yeah, that shit deletes crusher/bulwark groups really nicely.
woeful trellis
in havoc with increased spawns + less ammo pickups it becomes more useful
mighty belfry
I mean. You might as well if you have pickpocket.
I've been trying to just not use it at all even for crate builds just by principle even if I know it's amazing for crate with needler
dull dagger
Bonesaw chem DoTs feel really weak though.
Like one shot from my needler kills basic enemies easy.
One slash from bonesaw does not.
mighty belfry
Bonesaw chem DoTs feel really weak though.
Bonesaw does one stack on hit.
Two on crit.
That's why.
It's the same toxin.
dull dagger
At that point I feel like I'm doing the same amount of slashes to kill someone with a non-DoT melee.
mighty belfry
At that point I feel like I'm doing the same amount of slashes to kill someone w...
Which is why bonesaw is
Kinda mid
dull dagger
dim moth
At that point I feel like I'm doing the same amount of slashes to kill someone w...
every single enemy you hit takes the same damage
dull dagger
I was expecting to like light attack an enemy and then move away and it dies on its own lol.
mighty belfry
It gives too much to be a DoT weapon honestly.
dim moth
also keep in mind those chem nades that annihilate everything only apply 6 stacks
most fodder enemies will die to 2 tox stacks
most elites die to 4
mighty belfry
And you don't get a lot of those dots on a hit unless you crit with coated weaponry.
Which gives 3 altogether.
mental trellis
i hate that they actively try to walk around the chem nades when possible.
unlike the zealot immo nades they just go in it
dim moth
yeah they're nurgle cultists you'd think they'd start licking the floor
mighty belfry
Personally
manic wolf
I mean... we've all been there when we drop food on the kitchen floor
dull dagger
Maybe I just need to get better at hitting faces to get more stacks applied.
woeful trellis
anyway i think the #1 thing is playstyle - you never want to be fighting more stuff than you have to
in an ideal world the entire moebian 6th would filter through a door one at a time to be murdered
manic wolf
Fight all the things, just play TacAxe
dull dagger
If they could all just stand in one straight line for my plasma gun that'd be great.