hivescum-class

[ocean hollow]

Or just die to a single reaper because dodge linger has been fixed now

Either or

[neat delta]

Is bonesaw viable on high havoc?

like havoc 40?

I find crowbar fills up both needs

[verbal dew]

neither of those are good in auric even really

[neat delta]

horde clear, and armor debuffing

What no I've done pretty well with crowbar in auric lol

[ocean hollow]

That's not what Kala said

You can do well with dog shit, doesn't mean it isn't still dogshit

[verbal dew]

it's not good in auric

and it's gonna be even worse in h40

[neat delta]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kill-you-gif-5063683583336604795

[verbal dew]

it's just cope and talents carrying bonesaw and crowbar

[ocean hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/vince-staples-fax-it-do-be-facts-tho-its-the-truth-gif-16329641

[neat delta]

Yea true but I still find it rlly fun to use :3

I wouldn't say its dogshit though lmfao

[ocean hollow]

I mean you can say that

[neat delta]

I like wacking things like methhead in withdrawal...

[ocean hollow]

Blend them with Shivs instead

[neat delta]

I did

Shivs is rlly good

but

well tbh both are super satisfying to use

shiv is nice noise....crowbar is nice noise..both kill horde good..with the talents I use atleast lmao

last match I ain't use rampage

I was stimming it..

I really like playing support stim scum. esp on blight I love freedom of movement!!

[ocean hollow]

The fartshark agenda continues

[neat delta]

The scale at which a weapon is good must be judged by how good it feels to use

dclaw = best weapon in this regard

:3

and I don't use it on scum much anymore. I was addicted to dclaw vet before

I hope they never nerf pick pocket

[mighty belfry]

I do

[fathom raptor]

watch them make it give back 1% ammo with 5 second cooldown... =P

[neat delta]

"NO FUN ALLOWED"

[wanton dock]

I would literally die from the sudden Cold Turkey

[neat delta]

yeeeeeeeeep

seeing how arbitrator still is

and psyker

the chances feel a lil slim?

then again

[fathom raptor]

Oh you were having fun? Yank

[neat delta]

does fatshark not play the fucking game?

You should tell like

this is basically infinite ammo lmfao

[fathom raptor]

i'd legit take a mod to mute my shooting in the hopes it makes all other sound better =)

[neat delta]

I just need to know how the living FUCK do you make something like pick pocket

[fathom raptor]

silent dual autopistols =P

[neat delta]

and not see that its INFINITE AMMO

[wanton dock]

Me without a 20% ammo iinjection every 5 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1q_Zrt7krk

I don't want ammo pickups!

[fathom raptor]

maybe they just want to try to get some call of duty players here =D

[verbal dew]

pickpocket seems silly when it activates at very far away

whose pocket are you picking

but I really like it on crate builds so I don't want to see it too nerfed

[mighty belfry]

I don't think it needs like a full on hammer

But it really shouldn't just be

Unlimited ammo with an insanely easy proc.

[flat mist]

auric is piss, you can run anything

[verbal dew]

doesn't make it good

[mighty belfry]

arbitrator is straight up like

not overtuned at this point though

It used to be.

But the hp changes and the slight nerfs to them have actually leveled them down quite a bit.

[flat mist]

fair, my bar for good is just incredibly low on auric

good enough

[verbal dew]

yeah I have crowbar as a backup melee on my crate stub pistol build just because why not

[flat mist]

i see you havent done enough drugs to forget the shit you've got stashed on your person

rookie

[fast surge]

Ah yes of course, he is picking his own pocket for ammo! Like a squirrel rediscovering it's nuts

[verbal dew]

I mean if it was called extra pockets then sure

but that sounds more like a one time thing

[ocean hollow]

It has got to be rage bait

It has got to be

[verbal dew]

I mean, it's not unreasonable to not want nerfs in a pve game

not like you're affecting your teammates by not using ammo

[ocean hollow]

You are

Everything has an opportunity cost

[flat mist]

refills to 10% w/ 10s cooldown would still be stronk as hell

[spice cloud]

Its nice to have instead of run and gun imo for the extra dmg.

[mighty belfry]

It's unreasonable when the thing getting asked to be nerfed is actually a genuine problem for the health of the game

[neat delta]

I like shooting needles forever

:3

[spice cloud]

Cause the stubs are quite accurate allready

With sticky hands

[mighty belfry]

Ranged scum can be on the same level of obnoxiousness as psyker can.

I say this knowing psyker also needs some dumbing down.

[spice cloud]

Looking at you dual auto pistols

[mighty belfry]

Seriously, I see a desperado scum in auric and I'm just leaving the game cuz I know there's a very good chance a lot of that game's gonna be invalidated

It's not a good feeling.

[verbal dew]

still doesn't make their opinion unreasonable imo

[spice cloud]

What opinion if i may ask?

[neat delta]

Mine

because I'm objectively correct

I love infinite ammo!!!!!!!!!!

[spice cloud]

Ah i see

I expected nothing else from u tbh

I still think its too much but then again psyker also exists

Being even more broken so..

[mighty belfry]

Both things needing nerfs can be true.

[spice cloud]

Yes

[verbal dew]

it is just an opinion game in the end

[spice cloud]

But on scum atleast its just pickpocket imo

[neat delta]

no psyker needs to be castrated

[spice cloud]

Psyker is just overpowered in general

[neat delta]

buff scum and give 50% ammo restoration

[upbeat gyro]

I like that there is actually option to play full ranged, always wished for such since i started Darktide. But i can see how its problematic too as the ranged options work so well (Needler, Vraks, DAP)

[neat delta]

toxin what do you think of crowbar

[light phoenix]

Instructions unclear, pickpocket now starts at 50% and Scryiers give permanent peril immunity

[mighty belfry]

mid

[neat delta]

Killed.

[mighty belfry]

It's usable.

It works.

But it's nothing crazy.

[verbal dew]

scriers is basically permanent peril immunity tho

[spice cloud]

Most despi builds arent even that bad.

[verbal dew]

if you play it well

[spice cloud]

Its honestly just needler with pickpocket for me

[mighty belfry]

It's basically shovel without the op blessings

[neat delta]

Kill elites

restore ability

easy.

[mighty belfry]

DAPs and Inf auto are also really oppressive

And completely braindead.

[sinful matrix]

Should've been melee only kills for starters

[spice cloud]

They are good and braindead yeah but really struggle with armor.

In the end i believe scum melee is simply better anyway

[verbal dew]

I see that as a likely nerf or having a range requirement

it is picking a pocket after all

[spice cloud]

I feel the same just nerf pickpocket and remove the needler secondary fire mode

Should allready do a lot

[verbal dew]

I mean just make needler a reasonable gun that actually has synergy with its own blessings and talents

it is just braindead on all levels atm

[spice cloud]

It would be a reasonable gun without the secondary mode imo

If it was just anti single target

[neat delta]

No no it's actually really hard to use. pressing m1 is like

exhausting

:/

[mighty belfry]

nah keep it

the only reason it's as big of an issue as it is

is because of pickpocket

[neat delta]

I need to drag my 2 ton mouse over to the enemy..

[spice cloud]

I think its the combination of pickpocket sample collector and the secondary fire mode.

Thats a big big problem

[mighty belfry]

it's not crazy without it

It's good.

Not overpowered good though.

[neat delta]

Yeah without ammo you need to be like 10x more conservative with your ammo

[spice cloud]

It is completely overpowered imo

Braindead easy

[neat delta]

I shoot like 3 needles into one elite and i get my ammo back

[mighty belfry]

you need to shoot a lot to really abuse mk2 special

[neat delta]

If pick pocket were not a thing

[spice cloud]

Well guess what people do

[neat delta]

I would actually need to be smart

[mighty belfry]

it's not something that's entirely sustainable without pickpocket

[neat delta]

I think its in a fine spot rn

[spice cloud]

Exactly

[mighty belfry]

the mode itself is fine

[verbal dew]

if it is getting nerfed I don't want the amount restored changed at least

[mighty belfry]

it's everything around it compounding it

[spice cloud]

Thats why i said its a combination of all those

[verbal dew]

I want it to support me on crate builds

not using needler

[mighty belfry]

ya. which is why I don't think the special really needs to go

That's honestly fine.

[spice cloud]

I would still like it if it did tbh but i know thats my personal opinion.

[mighty belfry]

It's pickpocket basically turning it into temu purge staff.

[verbal dew]

if the nerf fucks up it up on needler especially then fine

dual auto pistols are not my preferred ranged on scum anyway so idc about that either

[spice cloud]

Same just give the stubs some love.

[verbal dew]

bistol, db, and stubs are my fav

[upbeat gyro]

Make pickpocket give you 1½ magazine instead of % of ammo?

9 needles would feel more restricting, Vraks would still have plenty and DAPs

[verbal dew]

restoring magazine doesn't really fit the pickpocket theme

[upbeat gyro]

Well its fantasy anyway how it works

[verbal dew]

yes but it's named pickpocket for a reason

[spice cloud]

Just make it melee only possibly with a cd.

[upbeat gyro]

I dont see my pickpocket hivescums going through pockets of corpses

[verbal dew]

idt both melee and cd is needed

[spice cloud]

Same but im not sure its gonna happen.

[flat mist]

chainsword with +86% attack speed is utterly absurd lmao

i see it for like 1 frame per light swing

[upbeat gyro]

You shoot melee enemy, 0.1s later you have suddenly perfectly loaded magazine of your weapons caliber in your posession, realism

[verbal dew]

mag isn't reloaded tho

[light phoenix]

Then again, drugs improving bullet penetration is also unrealistic

[verbal dew]

I'm not also advocating for realism in a fantasy game

I just want it to be thematic to restore held ammo instead of mag

[spice cloud]

Its not about realism anyway

Its about balance.

[verbal dew]

ye but restoring mag intead is a super boring nerf

[spice cloud]

I dont think it would be a nerf tbh

[verbal dew]

and bonkers with desp

I'm mostly arguing from a non-desp pov anyway

because I like it outside of it

[spice cloud]

I like desperado too.

Its fun with dual stubs.

[upbeat gyro]

Aslong as inferno psykers exist in their current form, i dont think hivescum needs nerf

[spice cloud]

Both need nerfs.

Psyker even more so.

[upbeat gyro]

Then perhaps also HAVOC modifiers like rotten should get nerf too

[verbal dew]

inferno doesn't read as braindead to me at least

[spice cloud]

It is come on

Its so fckn braindead

Bubble with inferno is so free

[verbal dew]

I don't bubble

and I don't really havoc anymore either

or rather, I don't bubble with inferno

[spice cloud]

Shriek is even more broken if u have good movement.

Bubble is just for team

[verbal dew]

which doesn't make it braindead

idm broken

[spice cloud]

Its still braindead af with bubble

Wich most people use

[verbal dew]

not my problem

[spice cloud]

Ok then pickpocket is also not ur problem

Great logic

[flat mist]

inferno really is easy, man

[verbal dew]

it isn't

my problem

inferno at least hinders a team with other SB sources

scum has no such limitation

[neat delta]

so is scum psyker 2.0 or

[verbal dew]

not really

psyker still has plenty of things to set it apart

[spice cloud]

Like?

[neat delta]

yea I just rlly rlly rlly rlly rlly love wacking things..

with crowbar..

[verbal dew]

besides like crit focused DD I don't think there's much overlap

I don't play them anywhere close to the same

but if all you're doing is looking at them on paper then sure you can find overlap

[neat delta]

Its been a good minute since I played psyker ngl

[verbal dew]

it is my most played class at least

tho my playtime is p similar for all classes

think it's like psyker, ogryn, zealot, vet, arby, and scum

[spice cloud]

Psyker allways was and will be the most overtuned class.

[upbeat gyro]

Inferno just dominates too much and other staffs get left behind, and inferno imo is most boring to use, just spray in general direction and it does rest for you

Considering ease of use, it shouldnt be so dominating

Like why bother aiming trauma or voidstrike when you get less dpm for more effort

[verbal dew]

it got worse with KF being 100%

voidstrike just needs a rework to compete with the rest

trauma and surge surge handles themselves well enough

I often outcompete inferno psykers with surge surge

[neat delta]

I think if I play psyker again

im prolly gonna use electro staff

inferno is just cancer lmfao

electro is also powerful yeah?

it stuns mutants in 2 shots

1 to 2 shots

[verbal dew]

it's arguably better to just spam regular

hence surge surge

[upbeat gyro]

Trauma/Voidblast is fun to use, feels impactful with throwing around enemies and the sounds and feel of it

[verbal dew]

it is fun to go alt on surge tho, but it's single target

[upbeat gyro]

Inferno is just hold button towards enemies, they disappear slowly from screen

[verbal dew]

it's a power fantasy thing to melt everything in front of you

[upbeat gyro]

Then give us meltagun with limited ammo

[flat mist]

i hated inferno from my first few games with it three years ago

oooh i blew a cloud

[verbal dew]

I have no concept of melta

[flat mist]

blue circles much better

[upbeat gyro]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Meltagun

Basicly, plasma flamer that goes through armor

Flamer should atleast not work that well on elites and crushers

Like im fine with it melting hordes

[verbal dew]

idk what gameplay function the melta would serve tho

like it's talked as anti-vehicle as well

like it doesn't really fit in darktide as a battlefield engineering tool

[neat delta]

kill crushers one shot

[verbal dew]

and it's not like FS want to trivialize carapace with a ranged weapon

[upbeat gyro]

Could work similar to hivescoom bazoona, limited ammo blitz

3 shots of 3s of melta, melt crusher packs

[neat delta]

Needle gun

I shoot

fat man goes ni ni

[upbeat gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/enraged-meme-face-upset-gif-4242134693081516314

Dunno why i wrote hivescum as hivescoomer

[verbal dew]

it's not like that's needle gun's defining trait at least

they can nerf that in to the ground if they want

[neat delta]

cuz it is

[verbal dew]

melta as blitz is like why bother

[neat delta]

stop giving them fucking ideas

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[verbal dew]

vet has krak

and it's not like melta screams zealot

[upbeat gyro]

Melta could be next DLC class, Sisters of Battle

[neat delta]

its gonna be admech

and its gonna be broken

[pallid quail]

melta should be for ogryns

fuck the lil squishies

we deserve something

[verbal dew]

it'd make me use ranged more often at least

free more uses on frag

[torpid cloud]

Any interesting changes to the scum ever since the skill tree reshuffle and rocket launcher buff?

[final temple]

melts on ogryns? nah. you guys aren’t smart enough to not break it. let’s give you the actually good shit. power maul with slab shield. drill equipment and shoulder mounted heavy las cannons.

[final temple]

you weren’t around for the last month where everybody got scum’s superior dodge linger?

[torpid cloud]

Wasn't it already good?

What changed

I was busy playing some other games

[final temple]

well. you missed it now.

[torpid cloud]

Well as long as it's still as good as before I'll be fine

[grand jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/dfv-gme-gamestop-moass-game-stop-gif-11700783231030267714

for me when I started psyker lol

used voidstrike the most

[nova valley]

Not you in particular, but saw this the other day and thought it was fantastic

[neat delta]

If its not, yipeee

Im looking forward to whatever its gonna be

[grand jewel]

do we know when its coming?

[neat delta]

but it really feels like admech due to "cryptic"

[torpid cloud]

I just wonder how you'd explain an admech on a penal ship, and even moreso actively joining inquisitorial duties at the front line

[grand jewel]

🫦

[neat delta]

if its anything else

i will be happy

[grand jewel]

hadron is admech on a penal ship

[neat delta]

make it xeno

please

Sanctioned tau perhaps

[grand jewel]

I believe people were justifying Skitarii alot by saying you see Hadron has other Admech doing things in a cutscene with her in the Mourningstar

lol

[neat delta]

They only said no skittari

not no admech

:3

It needs to be admech....

[torpid cloud]

Yeah but she's not on the frontline
I can maybe see a servitor being sent in but that wouldn't make good banter

[neat delta]

cryptic can't be SoB right???

[grand jewel]

it getting bullied would make for plenty good banter

see: Kerrilian in Vermintide

[torpid cloud]

I mean I'd kill for playable admechs
They are my favorite faction after all
I just don't see any of them being sent into suicide missions

[grand jewel]

its not suicide if they're there

arbites:

[torpid cloud]

I mean fair I guess the arbites also don't usually throw themselves into sure death

[pallid quail]

suffer not the xeno to live

[grand jewel]

I'd kill for a Tau class

Railgun ult

right guys

[torpid cloud]

I'd sabotage the xenos

[pallid quail]

id kill a tau class

[grand jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/murder-drones-episode-1-clip-uzi-serial-designation-n-railgun-gif-17333870427080702827

[torpid cloud]

I don't want no filthy xenos in my warband

[pallid quail]

foul abominations

[grand jewel]

like sure I'd get barreled every 5 seconds

but I get to hit someone with the power of the sun every little while

[pallid quail]

even worse than a heretic

at least a heretic was once human

[final temple]

Tech Adepts are barely better menials and can be just as much abused as any other lowlife.

[nova valley]

Tbh, since the vibes are a mix between 40k and Necromunda, how about one of the ash wastes nomads? Could be an expert in repurposed weapons, able to enhance or do admech-ish stuff on them

Since it is used to build stuff from scraps

[torpid cloud]

I mean yeah that's fair. I think I was thinking of priests

[final temple]

I doubt we would be anything like a Magos.

[vast vapor]

Fatshark confirmed no new cosmetics for Hive Scum. Why?

[pallid quail]

id kill for some skittariussy

[final temple]

coz GW hasn’t greenlit any yet

[nova valley]

Pay for the class, pay for the drip

[echo python]

Where did they do that?

[grand jewel]

Rust stalkers was another theory when people were yapping about skitarii

[pallid quail]

pray for the drip (it will never come)

[grand jewel]

Sicarian

[final temple]

a while back when that question was asked for arbites.

[grand jewel]

I want one

titanfall 2 pilot with swords type shit

[echo python]

You mean when they confirmed that they were looking into it?

[final temple]

Yeah, I doubt we will be Skitarii either. It’s likely gonna be sth on the level of Tech Adept or Enginseer

[vast vapor]

In new patch notes. Someone asked and they confirmed no new cosmetics

[final temple]

I mean when they explicitely told that they have to get greenlit by GW and that they are in constant contact.

[grand jewel]

friend shaped

[vast vapor]

But Hive Scum isn’t even a real real table top character.

[final temple]

it is.

[vast vapor]

They sell Hive Scum models?

[final temple]

The cosmetics we have are literally from old ‘Hive Scum’ models for rogue trader

[timid seal]

someone's never played Necromunda.

[echo python]

They haven't said that about the cosmetics. What they have said is that they were not able to make arbites cosmetics at the moment, that they know about the demand, and that they are exploring options. Anything beyond that is playerbase speculation. This is the exact post #general-chat message

[timid seal]

or Dark Heresy for that matter

[echo python]

https://www.warhammer.com/en-WW/shop/necromunda-hive-scum-2022

[final temple]

I am referring to a reddit post.

[vast vapor]

Just Necromunda

[pallid quail]

do ppl even play arby anymore ? i never see any above like lvl 60

[echo python]

Scum is also one of the base career paths in Dark Heresy

[vast vapor]

Those models are better than our cosmetics. Lol

[final temple]

GW likely has qualms about us getting too obvious necromunda references. They love keeping their game lines separate even if they touch upon the very same tropes.

[vast vapor]

Wish they gave the Hive Scum a flail.

[echo python]

You mean this post?

[pallid quail]

wish theyd give zealot a flail

always liked it on salzpyre

[vast vapor]

No I’ll link it

[main wagon]

Hail Julia

Best Fatshark employee

[grand jewel]

flails are also just cracked in Vt2

[final temple]

flails, chain glaives with built-in stubber, web and mancatcher… plenty of unconventional weapons we could get for scum

[final temple]

it’s a noncommittal customer support response.

[pallid quail]

mfw still waiting on ogryn hammer

[acoustic viper]

They said the same thing six months ago for arbites

[lavish bronze]

Flails are fair game. Rest not so much

[pallid quail]

what about nunchucks

[final temple]

chain glaives work literally like the grenade gauntlet.

[lavish bronze]

So they are neither good in melee or at range?

Jokes aside

It can work

[nova valley]

I would and will explode out of joy for a mancatcher

[flat mist]

who has le big opinion on chainswords

mark and blessing preferences

crit vs violence, etc

[muted pivot]

Best used as a toothpick.

[flat mist]

nah its hella fun

[neat delta]

Hive Scum is too hard they should make it more tankier

[wanton dock]

They should make 100 toughness the standard and add an actual choice to that part of the tree.

[final temple]

idk. between the best active defense in the game and some braindead passive ‘oopsie, lemme come again’ failsafes the class is plenty survivable. just not a facetank.

[main trellis]

Fuck You to shieldvermin incarnate

[zenith fern]

No need for it if you have survivalist skills

[exotic temple]

Well it is a brittleness stack that can be stacked with brittleness. So you can stack up 80% brittleness, well 77%

[maiden pine]

leveling up hivescum anyone wanna

[rancid coral]

Flail and shield zealot only

[misty hearth]

Is Vulture's Push worth the talent point?

[astral canyon]

No

[dire badge]

yall think 10% stam on succsful dodge is good? im only bringing one +3 stma curiop

[exotic temple]

If rampage yes if not then no

[dire badge]

stamina only getsd ued in acxutal combat with push blocks and sprints rightr

[rancid coral]

Only subnode worth is Vulture's Dodge

Well actually the one that extends the benefit is okay ig?

I like using that one but it's not exactly the best

[main trellis]

Also during s*x but you don’t get any
Neither do i

[astral canyon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[main trellis]

You have no idea how much i giggle now

[dire badge]

I dont participate in pre marital hand holding myself becuase I am pious

[main trellis]

Ouch my lungs

[worthy jewel]

How do you guys feel about stim supply vs rampage in non blight spread H40 runs?

like with a proper stim not with 15s spam for blight spread

I put up big numbers in h40 rampage runs with randoms I'm joining through party find but we always end up failing it close to the end, idk if a big offense stim supply that I drop when things get heated would make a huge difference and I'm stupid to not be using it or if it's just a skill/team issue that we're not finishing the runs

[exotic temple]

At the end of rampage it kills all of your stamina and stamina regen. So the talent helps mitigate the issues if you can get a few dodges in

[final temple]

it is a skill issue that you are not finishing runs. while stimm supply can add substantial team bonuses it won’t make you magically survive.

[worthy jewel]

Fair enough, just wanted a rough analysis of if stimm supply was considered similar to vet shout, a must have basically

Just unluck with teams I'm joining then I'll just have to keep grinding my face into it and seeing if I can find an actual vocal party in this discord instead of communicating with smoke signals in game

[dim moth]

vet shout isn't a must have anymore anyways

[worthy jewel]

I'm sure you meant to reply to me, but I've never seen anyone use anything else so far so was just my example

That and book on zealot at h40, but ive seen zealot stealth once or twice

[dim moth]

honest to god I think book on zealot is actually a terrible ability

[worthy jewel]

Yeah I hate it, removes a lot of the in your face big damage from zealot and slows the class down immensely

I enjoy the value it gives the rest of the team when im not the one asked to play it

[dim moth]

It actually removes like half your damage overall

Just because of how reliant zealot is on their ability to amplify their damage

I did public auric runs with The Build™ on zealot with Martydrom before they got reworked

The act of picking chorus alone made me consistently do anywhere from 30 to 50% less damage in public auric games

[worthy jewel]

Not likely to see a book zealot solo clutching and saving the team either

[dim moth]

can't even use it to force revives by yourself because it's a shitty light stagger

[worthy jewel]

Atleast the other 2 you have a lot of damage output and solo survivability aswell

[astral canyon]

Meow bringer

[spice cloud]

With u on this one

It feels so ass now

[main trellis]

You have to fkup royally to jot be able to rez a boi with chorus

[dim moth]

it's a light stagger

[main trellis]

Skill Issue

[floral galleon]

As if damage is all that matters

[dim moth]

you can't rez someone with chorus by yourself consistently

because it's a light stagger

[floral galleon]

But then again we can't always be right

[main trellis]

Orange cat too!

[spice cloud]

Its actually the norm for my teammates to not do anything while i do chorus to rez a teammate

[dim moth]

dog I don't think damage is all that matters but I think that losing half of your fucking damage for diet VoC is maybe too much to sacrifice

[main trellis]

Actual pepega issue mah boi

[dim moth]

It is a light stagger

[floral galleon]

@main trellis Needs to link this man some of his videos

[dim moth]

Do you have enough experience on this game to know what I mean when I say that

Do you know what a light stagger is?

[floral galleon]

I'd like to say so-

[main trellis]

You haven’t seen anything then

[dim moth]

Because I have seen it a lot and the stagger on Chorus is so fucking weak that you cannot guarantee a revive with maulers/crushers around

It simply does not last long enough to allow you to get a revive without risking eating an overhead

[floral galleon]

The humble stun grenade says hello

[dim moth]

Yeah use the better chorus that you keep in your pocket to make up for Chorus' shortcomings

[spice cloud]

Stun gremades is jnironically better imo.

Atleast stuns will guarantee a revive

[floral galleon]

Knives just don't provide enough for the whole team and we do not talk about flame grenades

[main trellis]

Ppl sadly lack initiative yes
But you can solo rez a boi with chorus ez

[floral galleon]

Knives are s++ tier for removing that nonsense trapper without having to switch weapons but that's all there's to it

[spice cloud]

You can but it can be iffy

Especially alone

And the cd is very long amd it might not be allways ready

[main trellis]

Not always - incoming enemies beyond 10 - 13m radius or area unaffected like corners, bosses & mutants will ignore it
Book will not be ignored

[spice cloud]

True

[bronze glade]

zealot stun nades should regenerate

change my mind

[spice cloud]

No i dont wanna change ur mind

[low harbor]

If u have 3x revive curio perk + the revive talent (which u prob have anyway cuz forced pathing), chorus stagger is enough to res people

[main trellis]

Even without 3x rez spd its enough

Providence & 1 rez spd can do it even

[main trellis]

Believe it or not; some ppl do not take providence

[low harbor]

I wouldn’t want to take it either

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[dim moth]

yeah it's a kind of bad talent that just happens to be the most efficient way to get down there

since the other 2 pathways down either lead to a shit aura (good balance), or have worse talents before them (faithful frenzy)

providence also leads to a bad aura but you're taking it to dodge Desperation/Punishment

Not because you actually want Beacon

(unless you're playing havoc)

[low harbor]

If punishment was good I’d take it instead

And prob drop TWBS too

[limber cradle]

Which talent is Providence?

[low harbor]

Revive

[limber cradle]

I think fatmangus runs that

[stray spear]

Why is faithful frenzy bad?

[limber cradle]

At least, stock fatmangus

[dim moth]

It's not

[low harbor]

It’s not

[dim moth]

The talents immediately before it however are garbage

and vastly worse than Providence

so

[low harbor]

It’s the 2 talents before it that leave room for improvement

[stray spear]

Ah!

[low harbor]

Desperation is pretty weapon dependent

It’s good for knife and crusher

And tac axe

[dim moth]

I do be spamming push attack on Relic Blade sometimes

[main trellis]

And push att spam weapons too

[low harbor]

It’s basically just those 3

[main trellis]

There are more

[low harbor]

The other push atk weapons use push atk in combo that last long enough that ur stamina just regenerate

[dim moth]

Nah Mk II relic blade can push attack-heavy attack repeat for horde clear

[low harbor]

If u do push atk heavy heavy your stamina just starts regenerating

And desperation is linear scale

It’s not integer stacks

Desperation also technically scales better the less total stamina u have

I want punishment to be good tho

It needs to just be stack on hit

[main trellis]

Maybe in the upcoming changes? Doubt tho

[low harbor]

Idk what’s in store for 2026

[worthy jewel]

Depends how far away the team spawn ig but compared to the other 2 options I mean

[low harbor]

I want vet tree changes more than zealot tree changes atm

[bronze glade]

i suspect 26 commodore rotations

[worthy jewel]

Fotf and stealth give you a big head start on the horde to revive is all

[mental igloo]

more new class slop

[low harbor]

Swap iron will with field improv
Swap +1 stamina with +25 toughness (right side)
Make marksman & CQKZ refresh with stance refresh

[bronze glade]

i assume admech of some sort

[limber cradle]

More powercreep

[bronze glade]

is coming

[main trellis]

Of all things; fotf is the worst when you have to clutch

[bronze glade]

the powercreep will continue until morale improves

[worthy jewel]

Probably true, I just like my big straight line dash past a horde and free instant toughness

[low harbor]

If they really wanted every vet to have field improv they should make it a class iconic

I want vet & og tree changes more than zealot

Vet cuz it’s rly ez to do
Og because they need it badly

[astral canyon]

True

[low harbor]

And proper psyker nerfs

And ranged hvs nerfs

[limber cradle]

I want FS to look at the state of the game and rebalance Psyker, Scum, and how many enemies they intend on simply throwing at us while breaking the engine tbh

[leaden fable]

Ogryn with the biannual complete rework lol

[low harbor]

Og doesn’t need a complete rework now

Just the ranged branch needs to get changed

U trade away everything that makes og melee good to make some below avg guns workable and completely flatline ur melee frontline ability

[leaden fable]

True lol

It doesn't make much thematic sense that an ogryn would be squishy and bad at melee ever really

[low harbor]

I want Swift slaying on og

For right side branch

[leaden fable]

Probably hard to balance that with having any real ranged potential though

[low harbor]

Pair with massacre + lucky streak

[bronze glade]

rumbler fix please

[low harbor]

Og is the one class that wouldn’t make Swift slaying immediately busted

And it’s smth they actually kinda want

[limber cradle]

I wish they'd stop crying about frag bomb tbh

They never ran it anyway

[low harbor]

Frag bomb is good for nuking rituals from afar

That’s about it

Rocket still better tho

I think blitz economy needs to get looked at

[limber cradle]

Nah I agree, but no one cried about frag bomb before and rocket needs a nerf, not frag bomb needs a buff

[limber cradle]

They powercreep the everloving shit out of zealot blitz tbh

[low harbor]

Lower powered non-regen blitz can use a big capacity increase if not to make them regen

It wouldn’t feel as bad if u got 6 stuns from 1 pickup

[bronze glade]

6 might be too much

[limber cradle]

Well like

[bronze glade]

but yeah blitz econ needs a look at

[limber cradle]

Zealot flash is on arb shield

[bronze glade]

even 4 for rockets/tox nades feels super generous

[limber cradle]

Zealot knife is on shivs

The actual nades are kinda worse than both of these ime

[bronze glade]

they should just make zealot part of hiv!

[limber cradle]

Chem pool nade is just immo nade but better

[low harbor]

I don’t like shiv special

[bronze glade]

and make zealot paid dlc

[low harbor]

The trajectory throws me off

[bronze glade]

well i don't like u

[limber cradle]

You don't have to but it is throwing knife but better ime.

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[limber cradle]

I use knife and shiv throw a lot for fun

Idk

Scum nades across the board are insane

Scum is insane

Psyker is insane

Other classes are Okay™

[low harbor]

Nimble prob can use a big nerf tbh

+25% dodge distance is just wtf

Idk how to nerf ranged hvs without making it feel bad tho

[limber cradle]

Whats street smarts at?

[low harbor]

No dodge distance increase

[limber cradle]

Genuinely just make pickpocket salvaged munitions for 2 weeks and see how it goes

[limber cradle]

Nah it has one

[low harbor]

Arb has no dodge distance increase

[lilac crystal]

Bro is scumming

[astral canyon]

Bro is broing

[limber cradle]

Oh it's duration

Nvm

I always ran it for +1 dodge tbh

[halcyon marten]

hey yall, question ab stimm supply - i swear i remember some yter mention that u could pick up stimms to reset the cd with practiced deployment, but i couldnt find any way to pick up or interact with normal stimms. does a teammate have to give the stimm to me, or is this not an interaction at all?

[low harbor]

Are you using cartel special stims

[halcyon marten]

oh wait can i just like

not put points into it

[vernal flame]

i have this EXACT question

[astral canyon]

Custom stimms make you unable to pickup regular stimms

[low harbor]

If u have cartel special stim, u cannot pick up stims

[halcyon marten]

hooooooly shiiiiit

[low harbor]

Your teammates can pick up stims and inject into you

[vernal flame]

ugh

[halcyon marten]

idk y i thought i needed to make a stimm LOL ok yea thanks

[low harbor]

But you yourself can’t pick them up or use them

[halcyon marten]

that makes sm sense

gotcha ty king

[limber cradle]

What does dodge duration actually do?

Linger?

[low harbor]

Increase arb’s dodge linger from 0.2s to 0.25s

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[limber cradle]

Nice

Thank god I take it for the +1 dodge and not that

[low harbor]

Anticipation increases psyker’s dodge linger from 0.2s to 0.3s

Nimble increases hvs’s dodge distance by +25% and dodge linger from 0.25s to 0.375s

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

And yes that +25% scales with dodge template overrides

By comparison zealot’s IJ keystone gives up to +10% dodge distance and veteran’s WS also gives +10% dodge distance

[limber cradle]

Psyker is psyker

Scum is scum.

Best classes in game frfr

[low harbor]

I think it’s only ranged hvs being ridiculous tho

I don’t think melee/chemist hvs is that op

[limber cradle]

Idk

DClaw and HSword are viable specifically on this class

But you need more to make melee scum work as opposed to going "haha infinite ammo" and gazing into a direction before removing it

[low harbor]

Melee hvs hits higher highs than vet but also way lower lows

I don’t think it’s in the same tier as psyker

[limber cradle]

I don't think anything is in the same tier as psyker at anything tbf

Like

The only reason to play another class is "for fun"

[dim moth]

I play veteran because the helbore lasgun is my power fantasy of shooting everything to death

from a distance

with a laser

[limber cradle]

Yeah, for fun

[dim moth]

https://tenor.com/view/tank-mbt-syria-shut-up-firing-gif-2622405693088866287

[low harbor]

I’d put it at like
T0: psyker and ranged hvs
T1: vet, melee hvs, chemist hvs, ranged rumbler og
T1.5: arb, melee og, zealot
T2: ranged non-rumbler og

[limber cradle]

Transcendent Tier: Zealot

Oh nvm I just missed them

I think its funny that in response to Scum Zealots are fatty tanking

[dim moth]

stress eating made them wide and durable

[dire badge]

I tried playing zealot matrydom relic blade and holy shit do I feel like a FAT FUCKING whale.

[main trellis]

All fat no muscle

TASTY

[gaunt onyx]

ITS SO SLOW

big boom is peak

[bronze glade]

they ate a burger everytime they got powercreeped

[compact oyster]

rumblergryn is tier 0

or S tier

or A rank

if you would

[low harbor]

Nah not psyker/ranged hvs lvl

[dire badge]

I like oppenheimergryn

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[near mauve]

how do u uhhh

[bronze glade]

depends on how much ammo you feed them tbh

[near mauve]

make ranged hvs work against 100000000000000 crushers

u shoot da rocket?

[low harbor]

They’re really good at farming damage but they’re not as good at killing multiple specialists quickly and also pretty limited by ammo

[woeful hill]

Shoot them in the head

Idk

I was able to kill rot crusher in h40 with double barrel

[bronze glade]

i think the real limitation is ammo

[woeful hill]

Dclaw parry is good for that too

[bronze glade]

rumbler handles anything else

[woeful hill]

Shiva have the knives

[near mauve]

ill try db for the memes

i only used the mac 10s, stubs and autoguns so far

fast fire rate go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[woeful hill]

Double barrel is funny

The only ranged scum build I've used so far

[low harbor]

Melee

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[near mauve]

i mean yeah

that's what the shivs are for

i just thought there's some SECRET SAUCE to make he pew pews melt armor

[bronze glade]

rending stimm ig

[torpid cloud]

i cant shiv a crusher for the life of me

[bronze glade]

Use mk1 and heavy spam

At the head preferably

[dim moth]

Use mk3 and light spam with coated toxin so that the chem tox kills them

(Don't do this, but you can do it)

[exotic temple]

I mean mk3 push attacks into heavy are pretty good

[bronze glade]

it's like half the carapace dps

and it costs stam

(i main mk3)

[exotic temple]

It’s the ones I’m trying to learn mk 1 is too boring

[dim moth]

correct opinion

[bronze glade]

tbf both shivs are kinda boring in terms of moveset

i love them anyway

[exotic temple]

But I didn’t think the ttk on mk3 into crushers was bad it was like a half second off

[mighty belfry]

I mean. This isn't really a bad idea if you throw a knife or two at their head

[muted pivot]

Also from behind iirc gives extra damage? Or at least the game claims it does

[bronze glade]

i think shivs have backstab damage like knife

not s ure

but it's also harder to hit crusher heads from the back

[mighty belfry]

They do.

Also this is why I max height nowadays

[limber cradle]

Max height is meta

[low harbor]

Yes

[leaden fable]

what kind of bonus is that?

[low harbor]

Forgor

[lime wedge]

I have question
Does med stimm ability gives stimm effect even tho its on cooldown? Or i should drop med stimm only when its off cooldown so the effect share?

Or is there any correct way/effective way to use it

[leaden fable]

iirc it's not supposed to give your stimm's benefits while your stimm is on cooldown but it's bugged so that if you exit and re-enter it does anyways

[lime wedge]

Gotcha

[covert umbra]

I'm seeing a lot of different cartel special setups for crate / chem dependancy build.

Is there a cooldown that you should be aiming for? Do you want it as low as possible for chem dependancy ease of use? How high of a C/D can you push the special before it becomes hard to keep uptime?

[leaden fable]

I've heard just running a pure cooldown reduction stimm is popular and it's been my favorite so far, but I don't run chem dep, only adrenaline

[limber cradle]

My favorite stimm is strength+movement I'm ngl

[leaden fable]

I just path to the stimm node that gives you cooldown on melee kill and that's it

[limber cradle]

I only use Cooldown on Desp.

[leaden fable]

as long as you're not using the toughness branch you're good afaik

[limber cradle]

Basically yeah

[lime wedge]

Breaking bad situation all over again

[leaden fable]

I did run lower left for the improved dodges node early on learning melee scum but I think the uptime on rampage might be better from the CDR branch

[limber cradle]

Iirc strength let's rocket straight up one shot h40 rot packs

+finesse is good for shivs

[leaden fable]

you can also dismantle a boss in record time with the speed + damage branches for sure

[limber cradle]

The movement is because I like dodgemaxxing lol

[leaden fable]

see I was already flying off ledges with the normal scum dodges lmao

where's my thunder hammer lead boots when I need them

[lime wedge]

That is interesting

[limber cradle]

Tbh I don't ledge myself too often

[lime wedge]

Also i wonder how can rocket clears pack of rotten in h40 xD

Stimm op then

[limber cradle]

Its mainly on that one uhhh

No mans land

The bridges between buildings when you gotta extend the ramp for Lionheart

[leaden fable]

I swear they're like the perfect angle to lose your contact with the ground and go flying

[tropic crag]

yeah slopes in tide games are a dangerous thing to dodge on

[muted pivot]

I feel bad not taking a heavy stimm

So I usually go STR on all then speed and recoil on desperados, or CDR on others

DAPs desp get rending, Vraks desp gets Finesse, rampage shivs and stim supply bonesaw get crit

[flat mist]

I take long stimm so I don't have to use it as often

Annoying af animation

[upbeat gyro]

What was the RunNGun blessing and perk setup for DAPs talked here earlier?

[pallid quail]

blaze away speedload perhaps

[upbeat gyro]

They felt too pray&spray so someone suggested running

I guess with Blaze Away as thats the best blessing?

[spark gyro]

The thing I wonder is if that also reduces the max spread

The First Descendant actually had an accuracy stat where it only affected the minimum bloom the weapon could have

The maximum was still the same

Prime spaghetti

[upbeat gyro]

Guess ill just try one game with that blessing on the event mode

None using it on Gameslantern

100% have Blaze Away, then most common is Speedload, Powderburn and Pinning Fire

[astral canyon]

daps dont need the blessing

you can fire while running by default without it

[upbeat gyro]

But the -30% spread?

[astral canyon]

not worth the slot compared to other options

[stray spear]

Does hyper violence work with devil claw sword

Trying it with a blender meme build

[upbeat gyro]

Finally found it

[bronze glade]

yes

[upbeat gyro]

Is it mod to show kill messages of same type in same row with numbers?

Instead of each individually

Meanwhile, Reginals DAP vid

[indigo sedge]

why am i seeing stim addicted genusis

[upbeat gyro]

Im wondering if Maniacs is overkill on desperado builds as a perk as they mostly drop fast anyway

[mighty belfry]

Explosions don't get hit by the damage resistance

With some strength stimms or pocket toxin, it's one of the more reliable ways to kill droves of them.

Did discord like

Eat a message I sent just now

It did.

And it took like a minute for some messages to load so my message was redundant anyway

Rip

[worthy jewel]

can confirm my issues were entirely team/skill issue related in the past few days

got an actual useful team and we very nearly true survivored

[mighty belfry]

Good havoc teams are becoming rarer and rarer by the day

[mighty belfry]

DAP spread with sustained fire is kinda awful

Not the blessing. Like

Actually constantly firing

Run 'n Gun helps a lot in that regard

Not necessary by any means but there's a reason to use it I you wanna make them better at mid range

[astral canyon]

i was talking about the sprint firing thing

that part they have built in

[mighty belfry]

Ya

I know that.

They still feel like shit to fire without the blessing ime

Just because they have the built in sprint fire doesn't mean that invalidates Run n Gun entirely imho

[uneven plinth]

what perks for duo auto pistols

[low harbor]

maniac & flak

[uneven plinth]

oh dam old faithful okay

[ornate cobalt]

Drugs?

[ionic thicket]

is the havoc pug strat to just wait for weekends and pray for better groups?

I swear no amount of solo clutching can win some of these games especially during the morning/afternoon :(

[spice cloud]

Dod you try the lfg channels?

If u want good partys u might wanna search for a decent group here instead.

[ionic thicket]

just to find a true survivor run group but have not found any yet, so not actually for lfg

better player quality im assuming on here

[spice cloud]

U can generally expect more cooperation if you go into a voice channel here.

U can also find good players with party finder but it is a gamble.

[pulsar aspen]

What you do find over the party finder is quite the loadouts and.. builds..

[limber cradle]

Learn to expect nothing and you'll never be disappointed

[fallen void]

uhhh

[young canyon]

So Is this like... Normal? For some of the Hive Scum Class? This is the Stim Pistol

[fallen void]

yeah uh

the event broke some stuff

they function in game normally

[dire fulcrum]

im very confused about something a lot of people say hivescum is a weak class

[echo python]

It broke in the most recent patch, they'll fix it eventually

I think they might be preparing to do some tweaks to some of the hive scum stuff

[fallen void]

any tips on how to farm this and be quick about it?

[lavish bronze]

any heavy sword

and one point into the stimm in your tree

for shortest cooldown

aint much more than that

[spice cloud]

I wouldnt say so.

[candid flint]

kill enemies with heavy attacks while cartel special stimm is active

hope this helps

[shrewd thorn]

what blessings and perks are good for Shivs ?

[hallow socket]

I like flak, carapace and if you really want unyielding use that instead. For blessings I use Precognition and Uncanny strike.

[candid flint]

never ever felt the need for flak

shivs delete everything that isnt carapace/unyielding

[hallow socket]

What is your opinions for the long lasting blessing

Node*

[candid flint]

i dont use it often, because most builds i just use ability cooldown

which is counter productive with long lasting stimms

[hallow socket]

Makes sense since there isn't any unyielding damage nodes or anything.

[exotic temple]

The class power is kind of an s curve. When you don’t know what you are doing it feels very weak but once you learn the class it’s broken.

[candid flint]

90% sure there is

[upbeat gyro]

Hivescum is strong defensively if you know how to use the mobility, lots of players dont

Meanwhile Arbi just facetanks hits and shrugs it off, for those kind of players, thats what they consider strong

[hallow socket]

The 15% damage against elites and monstrosities isn't going to help against crushers.

[candid flint]

monstrosities are unyielding

[exotic temple]

You say strong I say boring class design

[candid flint]

even with that, extra unyielding damage on shivs is an optimal choice

i dont think flak damage gives any meaningful breakpoints at all on shivs

[hallow socket]

I use it for every build so I don't notice a difference

I'll use unyielding in shivs for sure

*on

Just for crushers alone lol

[candid flint]

crushers are carapace

[hallow socket]

Counter productive? I'm going for shorter stims

Carapace and unyielding

All oggies are unyielding

[flat mist]

flak is just for boosting hyper violence

[hallow socket]

Seen something on those humanoid bosses being unarmored.

Ahh sic so I'll stay with flak for hyper Violence

?

[candid flint]

long lasting stimm node is counter productive for me, because i mostly just use ability regen cooldown effects. that node is a waste with ability regen cooldown, because you are ulting with rampage/desperado, your ability cooldown does not start till end of ult

so through idk half of your ult, you have ability regen stimm effect doing nothing, because you are in ult

[hallow socket]

What's ult?

[candid flint]

f key

ability

[hallow socket]

Combat ability?

[candid flint]

yes

yes ye s yes yes

[hallow socket]

Ahh k lol

My setup is weird

Im using the same so I should get rid of it?

[candid flint]

i use this on my main build

i always have stimm ready to use, the second rampage ends

[hallow socket]

Coolbeans perfect

[candid flint]

so i can just get back into rampage faster

any more points, then pretty often, stimm is on cooldown still when i am leaving rampage

[hallow socket]

Do you use Focused Resolve?

[exotic temple]

Do you take sample collector? I’ll go all the way to the +cdr on melee kills and still have a good rotation

[candid flint]

if my build uses sample collector, then i take more ability cooldown regen in the stimm

because my stimm will be up sooner

[candid flint]

on my main build (pure melee crowbar) no

[candid flint]

yes

[hallow socket]

Coolbeans

[hallow socket]

This alright? Or just the cooldown instead.

[candid flint]

idk should be fine

[livid raven]

why aren't you going into the end nodes

[hallow socket]

I'm trying to keep it short so I can use it most if the time on Desperado cooldown.

[livid raven]

why aren't you taking the cooldown endnode then

[hallow socket]

*of

This build doesn't have sample collector unfortunately otherwise I probably would.

[tranquil fjord]

going full cooldown is prob more beneficial for desperado

ah

what is your pathing

[candid flint]

my reasoning is i always want stimm to be ready when i come off of ult. i dont want to wait for stimm to be on cooldown. i dont want to ahve to decide to wait for ult to come back, or to juse use stimm

[livid raven]

you should take sample collector then

[hallow socket]

Yeah changes things aye 😵‍💫

I drop so much if I do.

[livid raven]

if you don't have enough points for it, you prob took some unnecessary nodes

[hallow socket]

It's... Unconventional

Would you run Hyper Violence with Hyper Critical? Or Ramping backstab with hyper critical? I'm gonna keep the crit one and go something else?

[livid raven]

in a desperado build?

[hallow socket]

Yep lol as I said unconventional it's got heaps of melee

It's gone from an experiment to being my favorite build.

Across all classes I'm just tweaking it atm.

Yes I get flak about it when I show people but it works for me. Go to play other things and just die within minutes.. not all the time.

Its fun and it keeps me alive so I'm asking everyone I can with what nodes work with each other or conflict as such.

[upbeat gyro]

With desperado you should be 95%+ time just shooting instead of melee, if you wanna melee, take rampage instead

But nothing stopping you from playing unoptimally if you find it fun

I just did ranged arbi yesterday for the event and it was fun

[hallow socket]

Lol I clutch with this thing in Auric

[upbeat gyro]

You can clutch with bad build, doesnt make it good

[hallow socket]

It's not even a Desperado spam

[livid raven]

i don't get it, desperado builds are already one of the most evasive and resilient builds

[hallow socket]

It's like playing Zealot with a timed Psyker Void Blast Staff rampage.

Strike or water explosions

*whatever

[livid raven]

but you could do that without the timer if you just keep shooting

[upbeat gyro]

I can see the appeal in hybrid ranged and melee and sprinkling both in the mix, but you will be just halfway good at both then instead of maximizing potential of one or the other

Very talent starved that way

[livid raven]

desperado builds are already pretty on points with talents yeah

[hallow socket]

I use the gun for elites/specials and clearing space or ramping up vultures mark. Trust me I play ranged and melee hive scum but I wanted the best of everything so this came to be. Try it out??

[livid raven]

what's the keystone btw

[manic wolf]

You can do melee/ranged, but it does minimise the number of gear choices you can run

[livid raven]

no, there is no reason to melee

why would i switch to melee

when i have a gun

[hallow socket]

Done so much experimenting with this.

It's for positioning

Stab stab then explode on everything

[livid raven]

what do you gain from stabbing tho

[manic wolf]

Because, quite frankly, melee is good in this game, the gunplay is mid at best. Statistically superiour, sure, but much, much less fun

[hallow socket]

I use untouchable with it so your stealthy when sprinting

[livid raven]

i'll give you that, shooting into hordes feels like shit

ah so you take the aggro loss on sprint

[hallow socket]

Not with an explosive bolt pistol

[livid raven]

i rest my case

[manic wolf]

Yeah.. Like I have a hybrid setup, but im not touching that node, thats a fat L

[livid raven]

remember when you had to for melee builds?

good times

[hallow socket]

It's like using Shroudfield being a melee death machine, get in behind enemy lines explode with Desperado destroy everything

[manic wolf]

No?

[livid raven]

you kinda had to or you had to take a much worse pathing

before they moved talents around

[candid flint]

fury of the faithful is melee death machine

[manic wolf]

I do however remember OG Vet's Camo Expert... ¬.¬ What absolute cancer that was

[candid flint]

kills many enemies

shroudfield? nah lol

1 enemy dead

[manic wolf]

I have already forgotten the old tree layout

[hallow socket]

Yeah but your not using Shroudfield it's only from running

[livid raven]

that's fair, it was kinda nightmarish

anyway yeah that talent is a complete meme

[hallow socket]

It lasts a few seconds but yeah your shooting allot too

[livid raven]

you could just shoot people and be done with it instead of larping as solid snake

[manic wolf]

Except Shroud is more of a repositioning tool than it is a killy ult, outside of bosses anyway

[livid raven]

shroud is the vet's stealth right?

or is that the zealot's

[hallow socket]

Yeah

[manic wolf]

Zealots

[compact oyster]

zealot

[hallow socket]

Infiltrate is the vets

[manic wolf]

Its the "I need to hunt down this fucking tox bomber" type skill

[livid raven]

it's the "woe, crusher train on my ally" button

[hallow socket]

Bloody trappers lately...

[manic wolf]

Yeah, you certainly have to be cognisent of the aggro dump

[hallow socket]

No sound cue nothing

[candid flint]

very well aware

did not dispute that at all

[manic wolf]

The difference between a good Shroud player and a bad one is that a bad one will use it to drop aggro and a good one will use it to put themselves in the middle of the shit

[candid flint]

i just wouldnt liken shroudfield as "kill machine ult" and compare it to desperado

[hallow socket]

Reload a bolter and go to town

In the middle of them all

[manic wolf]

Noone is making that comparison unless you factor in beeg boss damage

[candid flint]

@manic wolf

[hallow socket]

Shroudfield Thunder hammer one shot build is s much fun.

[manic wolf]

Oh dear, I stand corrected

[livid raven]

they should make a thunder hammer that does much less damage against bosses but the special is an aoe

[hallow socket]

That would be peak

[manic wolf]

Wouldnt that just be the Crusher

[livid raven]

crusher but cool

[manic wolf]

But its already cool O.o

[hallow socket]

Imagine having different marks with different AOE patterns.

[livid raven]

we hate the crusher in my household

[manic wolf]

Desgusting

[hallow socket]

Ramping backstab used much?

[livid raven]

no, not really

[manic wolf]

Conditional damage increases tend towards only being good if the condition is active when you need it to be, or is incredibly consistent

[hallow socket]

That's right

What about battering momentum with Shivs? The stock standard ones

[manic wolf]

Thats the cleave one yeah? its decent enough, Shivs have decent cleave