hivescum-class

[spice cloud]

And not perma shoot my stimm pistol thats whack crutch shit

I sont see what the crate wpuld even do for the needler at all

[mighty belfry]

a lot

[spark gyro]

Pickpocket is like "what if we just repeated the same issue survivalist aura had and we nerfed"

[spice cloud]

Like what buffs does it even benefit from?

[mighty belfry]

strength stimms increase dot damage

speed stimms are pretty self explanatory, especially the one with faster reload speed

[spice cloud]

Oh yeah that definetly needet more dmg

It does so little

[mighty belfry]

I mean, it definitely helps to kill the things you want to kill faster.

[spice cloud]

Now its 3 instead of 4 shots for a crusher?

The rest is one shot anyway

[mighty belfry]

You do know what the Mk2 needle special does, right?

AOE toxin spam. Which the crate can help by either making the dots themselves stronger or making you shoot them faster to build them up quicker. When you're shooting really dense hordes, you start to realize why pickpocket is as busted as it is.

And not just flesh hordes either.

[spice cloud]

The whole point if this conversation was that in the end pickpocket is not necessary on anything other then desperado builds.

[spice cloud]

A despicable playstyle imo

They should remove that bs from the game

[mighty belfry]

It isn't but it's completely unignorable that pickpocket has major value on stimm crate builds

[spice cloud]

Only if u spam ur needler like a noob….

Ive literally never run out of ammo on that thing

Without puckpocket

[warm stratus]

sooo what are good weapons for the character since I know some weapons aren't great on the other characters

[mighty belfry]

Like, on rampage, I do not give a damn about pickpocket because I genuinely do think it doesn't have much value there.

[spice cloud]

Neither on stimm crate

I can kill poxwalkers without a needle pistol thx

[frigid wyvern]

who the fuck is this Mister E. clown talking shit about ogryn

[spice cloud]

I dont even know who that is

[frigid wyvern]

some youtuber

[spice cloud]

What he say?

[frigid wyvern]

watch the video

[spice cloud]

I see the title

Opinion rejected

[livid raven]

that's the glass cannon without the cannon guy

[spice cloud]

Ogryn is the most fun you can have in this game

[lavish bronze]

Put it in oggy chat if you havent

[spice cloud]

Mister E is washed

[dim moth]

every time I see this fuck ass dorks opinions on ogryn

[vast ferry]

imagine thinking the most OP node on the entire scum tree pickpocket isn't needed tsk tsk https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yKGpid_iEms

[final temple]

correctly identifying a numerically powerful tactic is hardly a 'noob' move. You may not enjoy the playsty.e but tox spam is a clearly intended playstyle.

[lavish bronze]

Yup

[dim moth]

I immediately log on to play ogryn to see how much he copes

[frigid wyvern]

my bad g

[mighty belfry]

I don't like that it's currently as freely available as it is

But trying to say it doesn't have value is

Kinda crazy

[frigid wyvern]

fuck are you on about?

[mighty belfry]

Mister E said scum is glass cannonm

without the cannon

Which is just

Completely false

[spice cloud]

Its the exact playstyle that hopefully makes them nerf that shit to the ground

[livid raven]

and everyone repeated it afterwards

[frigid wyvern]

maybe apon first release it was?

[mighty belfry]

It was not.

It was just janky with some of its talents

[livid raven]

even at release it was certainly the cannon part still

[frigid wyvern]

thats why i said maybe

[mighty belfry]

But Scum's always had ridiculous damage output.

[final temple]

and even that jank didn't change the class functionally.

[mighty belfry]

It most likely will

[spark gyro]

Scum being able to get +100% melee damage, idfk how much attack speed, HV and HC would probably go a long way to making them a cannon tbh ngl famalam

[mighty belfry]

At least some form of internal cooldown

[final temple]

after they buff scryer's again

[spice cloud]

Like im not gonna watch a guy spam his needler the entire mission fam

Im out

[spark gyro]

I can see them just slapping a cooldown on it like they did with survivalist

[mighty belfry]

Or

[spice cloud]

Needler spam is even worse then rumbler and i didnt think that was possible.

[mighty belfry]

If what I'm hoping is correct

They also make it a keystone subnode

So it isn't as freely available as it is right now.

Cuz that's another major issue

[livid raven]

it would be fine if they remove vulture's dogass push and put pickpocket as vulture subnode

[mighty belfry]

It's right next to really good nodes too.

[dim moth]

and then remove vulture's dodge

👍

[final temple]

Nah, I think they want it to keep it separate for build diversity's sake, but they do wanna tackle the needler ammo economy which is the core issue.

[spice cloud]

Agree it shoould also be exclusive to desperado imo

[livid raven]

actually yeah

or maybe just exclusive to desperado

[cedar cairn]

"Noob" what year is it

[spice cloud]

And only proc on melee attack

[livid raven]

no

[spice cloud]

2026

[frigid wyvern]

side note how does my xcom 2 character look?

[livid raven]

looks like if a school shooter had a child with a destiny fan

pretty good

[frigid wyvern]

damn bro

never thought of it like that when i made this character look

[livid raven]

to be fair that's just reapers

[frigid wyvern]

hey the reapers are very fucking useful

[livid raven]

oh they are the best hero faction

[frigid wyvern]

even if they are edgy af

[spark gyro]

On a side note, I do like pickpocket not specifying ranged attacks

[livid raven]

but every word they utter is like

and look at how they dress

[mighty belfry]

That's part of why it's so busted tbh

[spark gyro]

It reminds me of when I'd take confirmed kill on vet and go around chainstabbing gunners

[frigid wyvern]

"tell you're gods i'm coming"

[spark gyro]

I'd also totally not mind pickpocket getting reduced, because 20% ammo is a bit... I dunno, a bit much?

[mighty belfry]

It just needs an internal cooldown or a contingency to proccing it

[spark gyro]

I know the perfect solution

Make it a backstab reload like zealot has

[livid raven]

it needs neither, it just needs to be available to full ranged builds only

[eager zephyr]

Why hyper violence?

[spark gyro]

Everyone loves that talent

Nobody speaks anything bad about it

[eager zephyr]

I don’t think there’s a reason to use it with hype critical tbh

[spark gyro]

Ever

[mighty belfry]

There is.

[spark gyro]

Helps kill shit fasterer

[mighty belfry]

Hyperviolence overkill feeds into hypercrit procs.

[eager zephyr]

It doesn’t stack from hyper violence kills tho

critical*

[final temple]

which is a nonissue, because overkills don't proc hypercritical

[spark gyro]

I mean, I ain't critting all the time

[livid raven]

hypercritical doesn't proc if the strike would have killed

[eager zephyr]

So you’re practically going against the node no?

[mighty belfry]

True, but hypercritical kills don't override hyperviolence

[frigid wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-krabs-am-i-seeing-that-right-spongebob-meme-krusty-krab-gif-12807403454697271424

[eager zephyr]

Hmm I suppose so

I’d rather just spend it on hive city brawler tbh

Or one of the movement nodes

I’ll probably need to mess with it more though

[mighty belfry]

When you get overkill, that overkill stays until you get a bigger instance of overkill. Instant kills don't override the overkill at all.

And if you get overkill, that overkill can tip your crits to being able to proc hypercrit more consistently.

[eager zephyr]

Hmm yeah

What tree do you use?

[mighty belfry]

Which very much matters.

[eager zephyr]

I wanna mess around w it now

[mighty belfry]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0d65a9a-b33b-4a6b-a7d7-28fee737ecd3/rot-killer

could prolly trade flesh tearer for something else

since that build is meant for rotten armor specifically but it's a pretty interchangeable rampage build

[austere coyote]

I know it's not an optimal use of desperado but damn it feels good to pop it when there's a poxwalker horde and just hold m1 lmao

[signal rivet]

Is this one worth getting from the requisitorium or is it the wrong dump stat?

[bronze glade]

nope that's good

[signal rivet]

I've read mobility is the dump stat for most weapons besides the bolt pistol where you'd pick collateral, just not sure for the dual stub pistols.

[mighty belfry]

Stubs don't really have much stagger to begin with

[dim moth]

but they do have pinning fire

and collateral not being dumped is a stagger breakpoint on gunners iirc

[livid raven]

do we have all the ADM and cleave values for hivescum's weapons?

[prisma mauve]

I assume im supposed to dodge with this class

Because I blocked an elite attack or whatever that enemy is called and half my health bar cosplayed my dad and dipped

[fast surge]

yes just like every class is supposed to

[prisma mauve]

This is a lie

Arbitrator monke class

[fast surge]

not really

you still dodge with arby

lol

[prisma mauve]

I hold block and im invincible

No need to activate brain

👍

[fast surge]

ok so when do you do damage

oh right when you hit things

not block

[unique spire]

Since when did space marine size mutant could dodge

Insane

[prisma mauve]

When my cruch button is off cd

The boom

[prisma mauve]

Im still blocking them but now its mentally

🤪

Im joking i just don’t dodge a lot

I kill them before they kill me by button mashing

Or a trapper gets me and I get jumped

Anyways, hivescum is very fun

Lots of damage

Not lots of tanking tho so I actually have to play smart

Then again im low level on em so theres probably someone who has a tank build for em

[drifting heron]

Not really

I think 90% of zealot builds beat every single tdr node in scums tree

[prisma mauve]

What that mean

I played zealot abit but I don’t get it to be honest

[drifting heron]

Ok the lowest you can get damage taken on scum (vs toughness) is like x0.34

[prisma mauve]

I see I see

Is that bad?

[drifting heron]

Compared to other people yeah

Just don't get hit

[prisma mauve]

I see I see

[drifting heron]

Or get your toughness back before being hit again

[prisma mauve]

Is melee better or range?

For scum I mean

[drifting heron]

Depends

[prisma mauve]

Both seem good to me

I really like duel smgs

[drifting heron]

You can spend 95% of a mission using ranged with desperado (icky gross) or 95% in melee with Rampage

Scum melee is digusting

Hyperviolence is a hell of a drug

[prisma mauve]

So what im hearing is embrace bonk?

[eager zephyr]

Why don’t you swap the weak spot node for the cleave node next to hive city brawler?

weak spot node doesn’t do much iirc

Or shout node on rampage

Similar to what I use tho

[livid raven]

because the week spot node can do much

[mighty belfry]

weak spot node with finesse stimm goes hard

and rampage shout being a veteran shout basically has a lot of value to me

especially since the shout at the end of the duration can actually save you in some really dicey spots

like getting eaten by a beast of nurgle

i was using battering but switched by someone's suggestion and honestly i don't really feel the loss of cleave

[low harbor]

DLSS4.5 ultra performance is crazy

Damn

[flat mist]

its very comparable to psyker tbh

[drifting heron]

Psyker's is better because of weird shit like just a dream right

[flat mist]

rampage chem dep scum has more t/dr than melee/gunker has as most people build it

bc most arent taking dream and owtp

[drifting heron]

Weird

I take all 6 nodes below auras

[flat mist]

sure but psykers actual advantage is stupid af levels of toughness gen

[flat mist]

you arent a victim of damage glaze

[drifting heron]

You already have perfectionist DD and gaze

What more could you possibly want

[flat mist]

agree

but i dont think thats the prevailing outlook

but my point is if i was going to nerf psykers survivability, id hit their toughness gen

and do the opposite to buff scums

[low harbor]

50 base toughness and no toughness node in tree

5 base in havoc

[drifting heron]

Just make it so they take peril% more damage

[low harbor]

Let’s go

[flat mist]

toughness gen*

[low harbor]

Welcome back pre-rework ogryn

[drifting heron]

I wonder how playable 5 toughness psyker would be

It'd be like 100% ok in auric

[flat mist]

0%

[drifting heron]

Just don't eat shit

[low harbor]

It would probably make psyker the worst class

Despite them still having 400% higher dps than vet/hvs

[drifting heron]

Just smoke crack and do the stupid old ogryn pick of coherency toughness boosting

[flat mist]

buff to the new melee toughness node

the one that used to be half of quietude

i forget the name

[drifting heron]

No

Buff nothing

Leave only ruins

[flat mist]

im saying 5 toughnes would be a buff to it

bc it gens flat toughness doesnt it

or is it %

[low harbor]

Still %

[flat mist]

nvm

[drifting heron]

Is born leader %

[flat mist]

scum drugs have killed psyker memories

[low harbor]

Born leader is % of vet’s total toughness

[flat mist]

my beloved (fent needle)

[low harbor]

Which is a fixed number for recipient yea

[drifting heron]

So its flat for the recipient

Born leader babysitter meta

[low harbor]

Still no toughness grace

[drifting heron]

Yeah thats slightly evil

[low harbor]

1 single shotgunner and psyker outright dies

[drifting heron]

Just have the babysitter run fast helbore and kill all ranged enemies forever

[flat mist]

just git gud and have ee up

[low harbor]

I don’t personally agree with big survivability nerf to psyker

I think the dps needs to get dropped

[flat mist]

well inferno is obviously a problem

[eager zephyr]

It’s just infinite cleave I think

[flat mist]

perilous is kinda sus too

[low harbor]

The kit is too good even outside of inferno

[eager zephyr]

but that’s a game wide issue atp

[flat mist]

yep

[low harbor]

It’s not infinite cleave

Flame weapons don’t use cleave system

[flat mist]

aoe in general

[low harbor]

They’re actually better than infinite cleave

[eager zephyr]

Yeah but they’re even more than infinite cleave

[low harbor]

Infinite cleave still gets cancelled on hitting carapace

Flame atk doesn’t care

[drifting heron]

Aoe needs some sort of weird arcane math to make it not actually horrific

[low harbor]

I’d rather the atk speed of inferno got obliterated

And soulblaze talents nerfed

Make inferno apply soulblaze stacks much slower

[flat mist]

shriek would be acceptable with cdr nerfs

perilous just has to not exist

[low harbor]

Psyker CD should be higher than where it’s at

Shriek 40s minimum

Psyk aura nerf uptime

[flat mist]

warp charges is the issue imo

[low harbor]

SG prob also 40s minimum CD tbh

Warp charge also yea

Whole class’s kit just bonkers

[flat mist]

sg to behave like scum combat abilities

[low harbor]

95+ deserved nerfs

[drifting heron]

Giving gaze scum stance cooldown would help

[low harbor]

It’s a bit more complicated than that

[drifting heron]

Yeah but it would help

[low harbor]

Hvs’s ability CD pause is achieved because

The CD rate bonus u get on hvs tree

Is a different coded CD rate attribute

[drifting heron]

Evil

[low harbor]

That’s specifically made for hvs

To not tick while ability is active

While every other CD rate effect can tick during ability active

[drifting heron]

Can we kill these coders already

3 different electrocution types

[flat mist]

wait does that mean cdr stimm supply doesnt reduxe scriers cd while active

[low harbor]

Yes lol

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[flat mist]

lmao

[drifting heron]

Let's just give every ability in the game vt2 cooldowns where its all over a minute

[flat mist]

weird ass code shi

[low harbor]

reduce_ability_cooldown_time never pauses and their bonus applies during ability
combat_ability_cooldown_regen_modifier does not function during ability
both are input as "CD rate" in calculating CD (when it can tick)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1211063504174583940/1462189364837744775/ugc_10744877937992215179_A0EBD0A03DF4C853161C5143F74958240390AE2A_.png?ex=696f43b6&is=696df236&hm=b6f93e07954ffaa43c7ab840db8a3b8197263f693d8865cc0cf29434fff21b44&

[drifting heron]

2 minute cd

[low harbor]

But VT2 has innate CD reduction from kills and taking damage

[flat mist]

and 5 minutes for zealot

just cos

[drifting heron]

Don't add that

Just give everything 1 minute+ cooldowns for science

And see what it looks like in some matches

[low harbor]

I honestly don’t mind current DT cd balance given this game’s difficulty is just density spam

Just some abilities should have CD tweaked

Shriek, SG, desperado, infiltrate are at the top of my mind

[drifting heron]

Why does PBB even have an 80 second cooldown

[flat mist]

i do enjoy shrieking 6s apart

[main wagon]

I was in the middle of a good CIVI and my power died

The worst part? It’s only my building and the two next to me

[low harbor]

Shriek and SG both 40s minimum
Desperado 60s minimum
Infiltrate 35s

Prob a decent spot

[main wagon]

Everything on the street and in the complex is alive

[drifting heron]

Why did they give pbb 80 seconds when its primary use limitation is your ammo

[flat mist]

still need to nerf warp charges

[low harbor]

Yes

[compact oyster]

ambatuscum

[dim moth]

prob because it used to have 30 burn stack cap

which would just instantly kill literally any enemy in the game

[calm aurora]

how much is it rn?

[drowsy relic]

16?

I think

[calm aurora]

:/

[eager zephyr]

yeah it’s 16 without shriek I believe

[dim moth]

16 will instnatly kill any enemy in the game (excluding monstrosities/crushers)

chunks the fuck out of monstrosites tho

[pallid quail]

just totally and wildly incorrect but ok

[calm aurora]

Yeha but I remember going DH hunting with my ogryn

[dim moth]

you are not going to gaslight me about this

I think it's what barely less than 30 chem tox stacks does now?

And chem tox boss damage is wildly overpowered?

except it's on ogryn who has this fucking thing

[pallid quail]

have u considered the possibility that burn dmg has changed in the intervening period n that not all sources of burn are created equal ?

[dim moth]

yeah the changes that happened was the stack cap being reduced on the strongest sources of burn

I.E Point Blank Barrage

[fast surge]

30 stack burn is actually more boss DPS than Chem because it has 1.5adm vs unyielding

[dim moth]

oh you're right I forgot about the ADMs because chem tox is such a nice even 1.0 into basically everything

[pallid quail]

even before they inexplicably nuked it from 30 to 16 ppl tested it n conclusively showed that the increased rof was responsible for a larger dps boost than burn

[fast surge]

There is only one source of burn that actually goes to 30 now though, and it's boom backblast

[dim moth]

oh does flamer not have a 30 stack cap?

[fast surge]

Flamer max is 16 now with a Crit on last hit

[dim moth]

deserved

should nerf it again

fuckin' hate playing with flamethrowers in the tide games

[fast surge]

Remember when flamer had like 100 mag cap? Fun times

Then it was nerfed like 3 times

[nova valley]

So many builds are possible in this game. And, unsurprisingly, they are all hated by the community

[sinful matrix]

Where's Josho when you need him

Posted a few clips of himself functionally solo-ing the game because of how broken PBB Burn w/ Ripper was

It literally didn't matter what you shot, it'd die and you moved on

That said, it was exclusively a ripper issue due to the way PBB Burn interacted with pellet counts

[dim moth]

damage difference between me playing tox scum and using melee almost exclusively v random scum spamming needle pistol+pickpocket

notably despite doing over 10x my ranged damage (meaning they fired the needle pistol about 10x as often as me)

they still have less condition damage than me

another factor for this could be that I am using tox blackouts and they were using rocket

[meager bane]

whats pbb?

[calm aurora]

point blank barrage

[flat mist]

pee butt butt

[spice cloud]

This shit is so pathetic goddamn.

[spice cloud]

Nope only cheesy builds like needler with pickpocket or rumbler with pbb.

That rightfully deserve the hate.

[sinful matrix]

Rumbler can be really, really good

[spice cloud]

Yeah nobody said anything else.

[sinful matrix]

But its almost always used by someone who:

1. WONT STOP SHOOTING

2. Eats all the ammo on the map

[spice cloud]

Eeeeexactly.

[formal valley]

my brain isnt braining whats the rumbler again

[sinful matrix]

Ogryn 1 shot GL

[formal valley]

ah that

[spice cloud]

If i see any of those fckn builds ill just leave and play another one.

[formal valley]

I don't get people who spam that gun ngl

[sinful matrix]

Like the first three shots on any given engagement are perfect. But the stupid ass player just keeps shooting and shooting and shooting 😭

[spice cloud]

Jup

Exact same thing with needler.

[sinful matrix]

At least the Needler doesn't start depositing enemies behind me

Like yeah sure, waste your ammo and eat more than your fair share. Whatever, we've been dealing with that since Ogryn has had access to PBB and Vet since the inception of the game

[formal valley]

I still weep for my twin linked stubber ogryn

sometimes taking a full auto gun into fullest auto is what I wanna do

and it helped that it let me eat monsters

[sinful matrix]

Achyls Twin-Linked with PBB is still good

Its just a one-trick pony

[formal valley]

honestly I've found more success with rippers with PBB

[mighty belfry]

Arguably, Needler with pickpocket doesn't have that particular issue at all. It's still busted as shit though

[sinful matrix]

Yeah, with Pickpocket the ammo issue doesn't crop up which is nice

and I don't really care if someone is killing everything

I just hate that the Rumbler actively makes the game harder to play if its used poorly

[sinful matrix]

Ripper w/ Fire PBB is really good yeah

[spice cloud]

I do its boring af to play

I want to play the fckn game

I wanna melee

[sinful matrix]

I just like Feel No Pain w/ Achyls

Very comfy

[sinful matrix]

Go grind havoc 40s

Unironically

They're pretty close to unsoloable

[spice cloud]

Why would i do that?

[sinful matrix]

Everyone has to be participating to complete the match

[spice cloud]

I just wanna casually play after work

[mighty belfry]

bcuz auric is an unbalanced mess

[spice cloud]

Without these gooner bullshit builds

[mighty belfry]

havoc is also an unbalanced mess

[sinful matrix]

Unbalanced mess that forces op builds on all four characters at least

[spice cloud]

Also havoc is no fun

[mighty belfry]

but at least one person won't be able to play the game by themselves

[spice cloud]

Afterbu beat a 40

[sinful matrix]

Whereas Auric can be soloed by one competent player on a half-decent build

[spice cloud]

It can be but its certainly not easy

[sinful matrix]

Hivescum says hello

Infinite ammo dual SAPs

[spice cloud]

Auric is like havoc 20+

[sinful matrix]

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt

Pretty sure Auric is like havoc 10

[spice cloud]

Lol no

[calm aurora]

I'd rather have ds plasma vet than despacito scum tbh

[mighty belfry]

21

[sinful matrix]

Sure doesn't feel like it

[spice cloud]

Havoc 20 is way easyer then auric

[sinful matrix]

I can do aurics in my sleep

but havoc 20 and above force me to pay attention because of the scripted events

[spice cloud]

Mhm

[sinful matrix]

Pretty easy to make a problem into an absolute shitfest if you don't know the scripted event triggers

[calm aurora]

that's because you're teamates are straight out of malicetown

[spice cloud]

Exactly

Havoc gets hard after 30

I dont know whatvu talkin about

[sinful matrix]

Doorways on maps spawn hordes in havoc

and its consistent between matches on the same map

[mighty belfry]

havoc is still harder than the average auric by 21 because of the way the spawns play out

[spice cloud]

And?

[mighty belfry]

you actually have to pay attention because even by that point, if you go out of your way and trigger too many things, it can snowball things fast even in the 20s

[sinful matrix]

I'm just saying that if you're not aware of that, enemy density in Havocs can completely outrace aurics by a wide margin

[main trellis]

Nah; you can run non-meta stuff & win; skill is required tho and thats usually lacking in ppl
Following the formula;
Player Skill > Build

[mighty belfry]

that + teammates who may not understand havoc's pacing

[sinful matrix]

Chaos Spawn and Demon Hosts are the biggest forcers of this

With Mutants being second up

And then Bon afterwards

Kiting a boss is important. But kiting a boss into a horde trigger can really ruin your day

[spice cloud]

Its just a skillcheck NOT to rush ahead.

Really not that hard

[sinful matrix]

I mean that's the thing

You call it easy because you KNOW this already

[mighty belfry]

But it still requires you to pay attention

[sinful matrix]

But just because you solved a puzzle doesn't mean its not hard

[spice cloud]

Yeah but i dont have fun testing it in public lobbys

[sinful matrix]

And I fucking HATE that attitude

[spice cloud]

Id rather play auric

[spice cloud]

Its not a puzzle its common sense

[main trellis]

Well; now you know it too; utilize it

[spice cloud]

And TEAMPLAY

[mighty belfry]

It literally isn't.

[sinful matrix]

Sorta

[mighty belfry]

Like, there are quite a few people that play havoc

[sinful matrix]

Just because you know the philosophy doesn't mean you know where everything is on the map

[mighty belfry]

that do not understand its pacing at all

And it's not explained either.

You have to go on Kuli's guides just to understand what's actually happening with the spawns.

[spice cloud]

True but i rarely saw a new player asking a single thing

[mighty belfry]

That's not common sense at all.

[sinful matrix]

I only picked up on it failing the same map 4 times in a row with a group

[unreal stirrup]

density + increased hitmass

[sinful matrix]

Started noticing that hordes spawned at certain doorways

[main trellis]

And they fail; the amount if times a boi got overconfident & got fcked & messed the whole mission up is… aplenty

[mighty belfry]

It's why 20-30 can feel so brutal

[sacred estuary]

I'll be honest, this is me when I reached Havoc 22 and got skill checked by the AI director in December.

[sinful matrix]

Yeah, which is why Aurics will always be easier

Smoother horde spawning, less enemy hitmass to chew through, more player HP and Toughness to make mistakes with

[unreal stirrup]

auric is way too easy and half of havoc modifer are ass

[mighty belfry]

By 30, you start to get the players that do actually understand the pacing more and know not to move forward when it isn't necessary.

[dim moth]

zealot burning through an entire bolter mag to not even kill one crusher

[calm aurora]

auric hisg with infinite horde is perfect tho

[unreal stirrup]

clearance doesn't matter much after scum release tbh

[sacred estuary]

I brute force my way through in Aurics usually

[unreal stirrup]

there so many bad player in 40 now i refuse to play havoc

mfs get hard carried

[sinful matrix]

I just don't play havoc enough, and I find it fairly taxing on the mental so it's hard to get good practice in

After 3-4 matches and I'm done

[mighty belfry]

you know it's bad when the veteran is actually picking up grenades when there's other classes that need them on the team

[sinful matrix]

Not from salt, just actually mentally exhausted

[calm aurora]

pov: ''you're a h40 psyker''

[dim moth]

I like havoc a lot but cba to deal with the insecure meta chasers in party finder

who think that any slight deviation from the meta is throwing

[mighty belfry]

that is a red flag i've been seeing in high havoc a lot recently

[unreal stirrup]

literally everyone is bad

[main trellis]

Tbh all that i know about havoc came with experiencing it and not by reading guides
Can be done? Can be done
Trial & error

[unreal stirrup]

you know shit fucked when there m1 spam inferno psyker

[sinful matrix]

I think I'd rather do a 4-Man run of the Queen Myrrah fight on Insane than do havoc 40

[unreal stirrup]

not even fucking macro or anything

it just spamming m1

[spice cloud]

Macros

[coarse creek]

i've been reading darktide reddit and it's amazing because they're gaslighting each other that it's necessary to keep moving forwards at all times in auric to survive otherwise the director will get you, in complete defiance of all my intuitions about spawn mechanics

histg with actual infinite horde would be a 💯 for me

[sinful matrix]

I do not begrudge macro users in Darktide

[calm aurora]

when they actually do not know why the meta is the meta

[dim moth]

yeah exactly

[sinful matrix]

Clicking upwards of 3000 times a match is just breaking your body for the sake of a video game

which is blatantly reblanked

[unreal stirrup]

I use skitarius for some weapon

[dim moth]

okay but have you considered laspistol fun

[unreal stirrup]

notably knife because I can't be fucked to do pa spam at high attack speed myself

[calm aurora]

infinite hordes is so fucking good because the tension is alweays present, there's no downtime

[spice cloud]

Imagine needing macros for flame staff

Lmao

[sinful matrix]

I can shoot the MGiV 10 times a second to maximize its DPS

[spice cloud]

Psyker gaming

[main trellis]

Imagine using a marco or skittari mod to do well
Pepegas

[unreal stirrup]

technically its the best dps but its unfunas hell

[sinful matrix]

I refuse to do so and will use a full auto mod to do it for me

[mighty belfry]

no you don't get it, i will bring rampage scum to this havoc and i will have fun

[sinful matrix]

because 10 clicks per second is fucking INSANE as a game design philosophy

[unreal stirrup]

chinese psyker tend to macro it because

[dim moth]

literally me but exe helbore vet

[spice cloud]

Imagine using the most broken class and still being reliant on macros.

[dim moth]

fucking agonizing at the best of times especially pre-rework

[spice cloud]

With the easyest fckn weapon

[mighty belfry]

and i will rival the purge psyker in damage

trust

[dim moth]

top damage and literally triple the next highest persons specials and elites killed

[unreal stirrup]

die to the first overhead

[dim moth]

but when we wipe to ragers rolling over the frontline who do they point fingers at

because it sure isn't the frontliners who crumbled

[spice cloud]

Truly its bleak

[sinful matrix]

Its never the carry's fault

[mighty belfry]

you'd be surprised that it ain't usually me with rampage lmao

[sinful matrix]

Didn't MOBAs teach you that

[main trellis]

Skill Issue Detected
Conclusion; Skill Issue & Lazyness

[unreal stirrup]

yeah clicking 100 times a second with lasgun is fun

[mighty belfry]

Forge's Bellow is a good talent

[sinful matrix]

Its 9-10 Cy on the MGiV

But I get your point

Most people literally cannot extract the DPS out of it because its faster than most humans can move their finger

which will never not infuriate me lmao

[calm aurora]

I use skitarius on some weapons because I need my fingers to work, not wanking in uni or whatever

#boomer

[dim moth]

have they tried playing Osu!

I also don't actually like that lasgun variant

I prefer the Mk VII since it feels a lot less like a diet laspistol

[sinful matrix]

Don't most osu players double tap though

[mighty belfry]

The most I'll do is fullauto because I'm already giving myself carpal tunnel in melee, I'd rather have my finger relax for ranged

[sinful matrix]

mouse isn't exactly ergonomic for that

[unreal stirrup]

or just use laspistol

:)

[sinful matrix]

Unless you're using an apple mouse from 1994

[dim moth]

well yes I do that too

[sinful matrix]

that has one click button

[upbeat gyro]

Where is this guide? This havoc info is all new to me

[dim moth]

but funny enough the Mk VII actually hits headshot breakpoints that laspistol doesn't

since it doesn't need a crit to one shot headshot gunners or flamers

[calm aurora]

I tried using the laspistol without fullauto once, never again

it was painful

[mighty belfry]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3318538305

[sinful matrix]

Hence: I do not begrudge autoclickers in Vermintide nor Darktide

[main trellis]

Not to me

[sinful matrix]

Fatshark doesn't tune their game around the human body

[unreal stirrup]

autoclicker make no sense in vt2 though

[sinful matrix]

Which is infuriating

[calm aurora]

I am 43 tho

[sinful matrix]

Its mostly used on dual hammers for Slayer

Since you run significantly faster

which does help

[main trellis]

Swift & hagbane bows

[unreal stirrup]

if you mean movetech you don't need it

[mighty belfry]

i'm 30 and my body is already a mess with my moderate scoliosis

[unreal stirrup]

yeah like anyone use them outside champion

[mighty belfry]

i dont need to add to the matter with a carpal tunnel diagnosis

[sinful matrix]

No, but if you do want to use it, autoclicker is the only humane way to do it

[main trellis]

Its funny to stunlock a CW tho; very meme worthy

[coarse creek]

when patch drops and mods aren't updated i sometimes forget and play laspistol and s u f f e r

[dim moth]

I had to have corrective surgery for scoliosis when I was a teenager

So I've got neat back scars

[sacred estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/broken-finger-broken-fingers-broken-hands-sponge-bob-sponge-bob-square-pants-gif-12264054

[dim moth]

And also like all of my skin is slightly twisted which I think is cool

[sinful matrix]

do you also have a metal rod attached to your spine

[dim moth]

yes

[sinful matrix]

metal

What's your chair setup like

[dim moth]

a like

[sinful matrix]

I can't imagine you have anything less than a herman miller

[dim moth]

1900s executive chair

red leather

like the stereotypical corporate big bad evil guy chair

very comfy

[sinful matrix]

close enough

[dim moth]

was a bitch to get upstairs into my room

[sinful matrix]

lmfao

spins and on wheels or nah

[dim moth]

yeah wheels

[sinful matrix]

(Always funny to see people get those giga chairs but its just a standard piece of furniture for an office corner)

getting into their computer chair like an F1 driver

[dim moth]

nah we had this one lying around because I run an antique store with my mom

[sinful matrix]

Sounds like how I got my computer desk, sorta

I'm like 83% positive this is just my literal desk that I found on google

cause it had the same exact sticker on it once upon a time

but my dad worked in an office space that was getting rid of this and he took it home lmao

[main trellis]

Free furniture is free furniture

[frigid wyvern]

guess i've got a new friend

[nova valley]

You wish. What is defined as "cheese" is blatantly personal and unrelated to actual analysis. The only thing that matters is "my personal experience and everything different is wrong"

[spice cloud]

Speak for yourself.

[nova valley]

I speak for this chat dude.

[livid raven]

actually aprunkulus speaks for me

[frigid wyvern]

seeking agreement

time to bully the chosen

[nova valley]

Was is this?

[livid raven]

xcom 2 war of the chosen

[frigid wyvern]

mhm surprised that they didn't know

[main trellis]

Single player mindset
Such ppl are worse than average players that want to cooperate

[main trellis]

Keep that mumble away from my ears & eyes

Tbh tho; needler is cheese
PBB rumbler is not cause it has clear limits

Needler with Pickpocker has none that are severe enough to not deem as OP

[livid raven]

as long as we agree that desperado ranged builds need buffs

also at least sneedlers don't blow the barrels

[nova valley]

I know. It's just sad to see everyone claiming op this and op that, on every class, just cause they got a bad experience

[unreal stirrup]

it mostly just pickpocket being broken as shit

[main trellis]

And toxin adm

[livid raven]

i bet they will nerf toxin adm to 0.8 against carapace

[nova valley]

Meh... With desperado you don't need it, with melee is a back up. It's just a problem with the needler... And you could fix it by just making that it gives you ammo only if you are the one delivering the killing blow

[livid raven]

that's already the case

unless you mean it shouldn't trigger if the enemy dies by dot?

[unreal stirrup]

that minor as fuck

I think it should function like bounty hunter talent

[livid raven]

it would kill the pickpocket sneedler meme

[unreal stirrup]

but a little more lenient

[nova valley]

This

I mean, if you get killed by the tox, you don't get the ammo

[unreal stirrup]

currently pickpocket is too lenient

that would nerf exactly 1 weapon

and it doesn't matter since there enough enemy in melee to proc pickpocket again anyway

[nova valley]

The only one which pickpocket is actually op with

If you have any other weapon you already have to be the one delivering the killing blow. And you are still competing with 3 other dudes for elites n specialist kills

[livid raven]

making it a vulture subnode would also work pretty well imo

would kill pickpocket for melee builds, kill those smug chem dep ranged users and still work for ranged builds

[nova valley]

Is anyone using vulture mark? It's soo inconsistent in my experience

[livid raven]

yeah it's very consistent

for ranged attacks

may or may not be bugged for melee attacks

[nova valley]

Con or incon?

[livid raven]

consistent

you are basically invulnerable to ranged attacks

[nova valley]

You should. I tested it and you still get hurt

[livid raven]

what weapon are you using

[nova valley]

Double stub

[livid raven]

well yeah you should try with a weapon that doesn't suck ass first

like shredder or vraks

or even DAP

stub isn't really a vulture/desperado gun

[nova valley]

Yeah, true

I looked into it and seems like a lot of people reported it to be bugged

I assumed it was the case and stopped using it

[drowsy relic]

Vultures doesn't work on overheads

[livid raven]

it's kinda bugged against melee attacks

[drowsy relic]

And they're AoEs :)

[livid raven]

and aoes like overheads don't care

[nova valley]

Yeah overhead of course does not work

But even with ragers in arena I tried and it does not seems to work. Like, it works 50% of the time (all the time) (cit. Ihopeyouknowit)

[livid raven]

despite saying it lasts 1 second, it seems like it only lasts like 0.2 seconds for melee attacks

like you'd have to time a dodge

[nova valley]

Meh. Than it is good as it is (imho), no need for a nerf

It fits the bill for this class

[livid raven]

Even if it worked for ranged atracks only it would still be pretty dope

[edgy saddle]

Ngl the more i use vultures mark tge more I feel like i shouldnt use dependecy outsode of melee builds being invincible for 60% of combat feels really nice

[nova valley]

You already got desperado for range attack, why you need vulture dodge as well?

[livid raven]

Desperado has way too much cooldown

[nova valley]

1 injection of the right stim, a couple of kills and you have it back in 15 sec

[livid raven]

The right stim still only decreases it to like 30 seconds at the very, very best

[nova valley]

Dodge for 15 sec; profit

[livid raven]

Or you could take a better stim instead and play with pickpocket

[nova valley]

If you do not kill during the cooldown

[livid raven]

If you kill with cooldown

[nova valley]

Nah man impossible. Cd redux + cd redux when kill, you get it to a (if not 15) 20 sec cd

Talking about the lower right nodes of stim lab

All you need is to pop it at right moment with a horde and you flying

[livid raven]

Cooldown on kill is a 9-11s cooldown reduction at best you kill every second + 26% from the cooldown stim is another 15s off

I'd have to calculate chem dependency

I don't remember the value

[nova valley]

You are forgiven for that

[livid raven]

But you do lose out on speed and strength stim

[nova valley]

Good

[main trellis]

Thats… nothing… should be 0.6 atleast imo

[nova valley]

Ppl seems to hate this class so much that they forget it is still the worst/weakest class in the game

[main trellis]

That… is an interresting idea

Would force you to melee to get pickpocket to trigger

[livid raven]

Or ranged

But melee for sneedler yeah

[main trellis]

How much you wanna bet ppl will still grab a ranged keystone to get pickpocket? I bet alot they would
Should be despy subnode; this way ranged builds will have ammo sustain and melee/support builds won’t spam needler & actualy play their builds

[livid raven]

Yeah but i have it out for desperado chem dep users

[main trellis]

Stub pistols need help to be good but they are not crap; i ate my words trying them out (special is still too slow; needs a buff)

[near mauve]

nah keep pickpocket placement the same just change how it proccs

[main trellis]

Heres the thing; its better to get cdr over ones on kill on average

[nova valley]

The moment a new admech character comes out, noone will even remember HS and all the allegedly "impossibly op" builds talks will vanish like dust in the wind

[near mauve]

they're never putting out admech lmao

[compact oyster]

cryptic says otherwise

[nova valley]

Faithless heretic

[compact oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/mechanicus-adeptus-mechanicus-tech-priest-tech-priest-techpriest-gif-1974368433068357261

[near mauve]

cryptic could 10 billion things

[livid raven]

The next class is actually the commissar (they have friendly fire enabled)

[compact oyster]

also techpriest being the next logical origin to add from the dark heresy ttrpg

[near mauve]

i dont see how actually having ad mech is gonna affect scum anyway

[nova valley]

That "barrel everyone" kid in this chat will be happy

[near mauve]

doubt admech is gonna be a glass cannon murder hobo

[vapid jungle]

Mmm the flavor!

[livid raven]

In both directions

[drowsy relic]

Big bets in adept

I love my dataslate

[compact oyster]

typing of the dead in tide

[livid raven]

Warhammer 40k Darktyping

[nova valley]

I really hope for it to be the next big OP unbalanced things. Just to see the mindless mob switch target blindly

[nova valley]

Amazing

[near mauve]

dont worry it will be

fatfish cant balance

[nova valley]

Same ol' opinion

[near mauve]

its troooo

[nova valley]

Game -> Strategy -> random youtuber making a video with all caps title in thumbnail -> op raging mob saturating every chat -> repeat

[livid raven]

Would be nice to have a necromancer counterpart

[near mauve]

i dont need no youtuber to tell me the truth

i can see it

but i dont really care i just play few times a week now and w+m1 into winning

[calm aurora]

wait for admech with drones/servitors

[livid raven]

yeah i think they will do that

[calm aurora]

it's fitting and it's another gimmick

and they already touched that with the nuncio

[livid raven]

admech having drones/servitors peons and/or sentries is basically a safe bet

[calm aurora]

also, counsidering arbites and hvs have no laser weaponry, we can also count on laser based talents and laser based class weapons

[nova valley]

It would be a safe option thou. I'd love for something much more weird. Like some sort of integration of the weapon, allowing for like double ranged weapons and tentacles. Or like, full melee with just one auto targetin salvo of rockets as an ability

Or like a crazy support able to buff team's weapons

[main trellis]

Torbjorn from Overwatch

[compact oyster]

i think admech will be tank summoner

[ocean hollow]

Honestly goated game

[calm aurora]

I'd like to see some trap shenanigans

[ocean hollow]

There's actually a battle royale typing game that ZTT mentioned

If you fuck up, it turns into russian roulette too

[livid raven]

there is also a warhammer 40k boltgun typing game

[cedar cairn]

Good morning rejects

[calm aurora]

combining stuns/mine with tox nades is fun and always welcome

[spice cloud]

I think they are gonna be the polearm class if they ever add it.

A lot of em have halberds and shit

[nova valley]

Cawdor has an incredible polearm weapon so cool that is a crime it was not included in the game with HS

[tranquil fjord]

ever since the start, the only weapon class that has not been brought from vermintide are polearms

[calm aurora]

and crossbows

and bows

[astral canyon]

And flails right?

[calm aurora]

yeah

[spice cloud]

So many missed opportunitys

I especially miss the polearms and more dual wield weapons.

Also spear and shield

[nova valley]

GUNLANCE

[spice cloud]

And sienna got that sick scythe now

[nova valley]

Why can't we have a freaking GUNLANCE!?

[spice cloud]

Cause sadly this aint monster hunter.

And the heretics would have no chance.

[tranquil fjord]

we have seen power axe concepts

i think zealot should at least get a chain glaive

[astral canyon]

2 handed chaxe

[nova valley]

2 handed shiv

1 handed eviscerators, in akimbo

3 handed shredder autopistol

[upbeat patrol]

does needlegun have any pierce? the aoe looks nice but I just cant imagine you clearing a horde with it

[marsh plover]

any changes?

[spice cloud]

Thats a sword my dude

[tranquil fjord]

do you need sticky hands

you could take the damage resistance talent

[spice cloud]

I would take melee nodes in the middle with crate.

Also slippery customer

[marsh plover]

sticky hands?

[spice cloud]

At the top

U dont really need it if u are melee

[marsh plover]

i HATE the middle ability

[spice cloud]

Not keystone

Just the perks

And def take hive city brawler

Free dr or dmg.

[tranquil fjord]

swap speed talent

[marsh plover]

i find this talent never helps me like ever, when it needs to it doesnt work

[marsh plover]

took it off

[spice cloud]

I personally like it s lot

[tranquil fjord]

you could take hive city brawler instead

[spice cloud]

Def take brawler

U want every defensive talent

[tranquil fjord]

yknow quick and deadly works with toxin but imo its not needed

[marsh plover]

yo is that rice shower?

[marsh plover]

i did

[tranquil fjord]

dream journey

[spice cloud]

Do u use bonesaw?

[marsh plover]

oh shit mb

[spice cloud]

If so a few of the cleave nodes would be nice

[marsh plover]

nah daggers, never used the bonesaw

[spice cloud]

Same really

[exotic temple]

Mr E keeps throwing shade at my ogryn and I think it’s 90% skill issues. If there are some qol improvements I guess it’s not a big deal.

[spice cloud]

Helps with dense hordes

[spice cloud]

Well idk how you could shade ogryn.

For what lol?

[marsh plover]

how does hyper-crit interact with hyper-violence?

[exotic temple]

He dies to shooters and Ogryn doesn’t have the I frames everyone else does

[spice cloud]

Also if you run the toxin power the chem nade would be nice.

[spice cloud]

Everyone dies to shooters in havoc?

And we do have the worst dodges but!

We can dodge into shit

Also gunner res curio exists

[exotic temple]

So he is complaining about the bog standard shooters not like gunners or shotgun plasma gunner things

[spice cloud]

Thats just a skill issue in his side lol

Honestly never had much trouble with normal gunners.

Scabs and dregs yeah but not normal ones

[exotic temple]

Exactly, there are answers to shooters I just hate dealing with specialists

[spice cloud]

Trappers are my real enemy

[exotic temple]

Silent trappers in the middle of an armor patrol just piss me off

[spice cloud]

Trappers and fire 💀

That shit legit ragebaits me

[exotic temple]

Like I’m not a mod guy but I’m about to get spidey sense because the game constantly doesn’t play sound ques

[rancid coral]

If I remember correctly, the short story is that if Hyper Crit triggers, then Hyper Violence gets 0 overkill dmg thus no benefit from it

[spice cloud]

Its a havoc problem imo

Since i switched to mainly aurics i never had that sound issue.

Too many spawns at once

Just silly

[rancid coral]

Overhead queues not playing, had to get spidey sense exclusively because of the overhead thing

[spice cloud]

Bursters are the worst for me

If its over a certain number

It just stops all my exfect sounds.

[exotic temple]

That’s what I figured. It’s not really fun either it’s like the final boss of dt is the ui and sound bugs

[spice cloud]

Same

And im not getting a mod for it cause its just not immersive to me

[calm aurora]

long story shortisher

[spice cloud]

I prefer no ui

[exotic temple]

I’m probably not either but I’ll type it out and winge about it

[spice cloud]

I mean its a fair complaint imo.

Its quite game breaking.

[exotic temple]

Well it is but idk if fs will ever do anything meaningful about it.

[spice cloud]

Besides i cant possibly shove away 15 bursters its just fckn stupid

Or dodge 20 crusher overheads

Or kill 20 bullwarks.

Or 200 ragers

With red

Like come on man

[exotic temple]

It’s gets pretty dumb then you get orange and rotten armor st the same time

Then it’s like I guess I’m just gonna derank or try and find someone who doesn’t have aids for modifiers

[spice cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/guess-ill-die-gif-9704573

[rancid coral]

Meh, Orange is easy

Is a nothingburger modifier

[spice cloud]

Red is the worst for me

No more stagger

[rancid coral]

Red is defenitely most impactful when comboed with any resistance modifier

[spice cloud]

What am i supposed to do solo with legit over 40 red ragers as ogryn?

They just tore thru eventually

[astral canyon]

cry

[rancid coral]

Your only option was saving the ones who could clutch instead of putting your life above them

[spice cloud]

Real

At that point i really am completely dependent on my psyker or something.

Or to still have my nuke for that exact moment.

[rancid coral]

There's less Ogryns now that at the start of this Havoc Season

I wonder why

((Rotten Armour buffed and readded))

[spice cloud]

Yeah its hard to hold the line against that shit

Its just not fun.

Even with the pickaxe i barely hurt the crushers.

And rumbler spamming is just boring.

[midnight haven]

Finally got the scum to 30 and I've had a complete 180 on them they are so fun.

Here's my question tho, how exactly does the bone saw work? How should I be using it? What perks blessings etc?

[calm aurora]

Reginald made a video about it

you should start with that I think

[bronze glade]

moveset is LMB spam

blessings are shock and awe and shred/deci

[final temple]

dumpstat is mobility (some like being faster and drop crit)

flak & unyielding

decimator (shred sidegrade) & shock n awe

horde is L H
elite is H L

you can also lightspam into hordes

saw has bad cleave, you want cleave talents. many people also prefer taking ‘Swift Endurance’ to increase swing speed.

Stay on green unless you deal with crushers which are the only ones where purple can make a noticeable difference.

[bronze glade]

swift endurance is mandatory tbh

[midnight haven]

Interesting ty all

[astral canyon]

Tbh there is only one thing i ever use purple mode for

[willow violet]

i'd go with cara on saw it goes through flak reasonably well

[astral canyon]

And thats void shields when i have a needler as my ranged

Since void shields are the one thing chemtoxin sucks against

[tranquil fjord]

run and gun's damage buff ought to apply while dodging and sliding too

[nova valley]

To nerf toxin, maybe FS should give void shield to everyone

[astral canyon]

Maybe i should send you into the void

[muted pivot]

regarding adrenaline rampage shivs, hypercrit or hyperviolence?

or both?

since I kinda have to take hypercrit for pickpocket anyway

[astral canyon]

Both is good

[nova valley]

Road to Eldorado?

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/both-is-good-el-dorado-gif-25263881

I still have to watch that movie

[grand jewel]

its come full circle

[nova valley]

Buff Chel

[main trellis]

Make it a havoc modifier that some elites will have a chance to spawn with a void shield
‚Unholy Commanders’ modifier would be named

[grand jewel]

daemonhost with captain void shield so it has gating

[main trellis]

Elites; bosses would not had them

Special neither too

[grand jewel]

Daemonhost gets final toll which says "elites"

daemonhost elite boss

[main trellis]

🤔

I wonder if its a code error or intended that they get toll bonus

Either seperate or that they actualy count as elite tag too

[grand jewel]

its pretty comical that they do though, very bad enemy to be CC immune and to get attack speed buffs

[grand jewel]

you'd have to look at their coding to see if they were elite right?

[crude dagger]

DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS!

[rancid coral]

Caps and twins do too but

I guess it just depends on the modifier

Same with encroaching garden, except twins can't have it

But it's a 100% garanteed effect on dreg caps and a % I don't remember on scab caps

[upbeat patrol]

been playing ogryn, starting up a hive scum. time to die over, and over, and over 🙂

[lilac ermine]

Guys I was in lvl 20 havoc and they spawn 6 bosses on us

[spark gyro]

Zased

!!

[lilac ermine]

We were folded

[spark gyro]

Like wet paper

[honest shale]

Getting folded in havoc is usually due to position.

[lilac ermine]

It was desert map after first medicae

And we walked through gate and the door closed shut behind us

Then twins and captain and beast of nurgle and plague ogryn jumped us

Oh wait it was only 5

My whole team died then I was fighting 5 bosses alone

[upbeat patrol]

i think this is the first time ive failed the first campaign mission

[honest shale]

Yeah that's when crowd control and positioning are the only things that will save you. What ended up happening was trash filled the cracks and the great separation began.

[upbeat patrol]

no talents & just base autopistols do not do much damage

[lilac ermine]

Is that like tutorial

[upbeat patrol]

battle for tertium 1. last enounter is a captain. ran completely out of ammo

[worn yoke]

what about getting to extraction on that map where the extract is 3 small bridges and 2 are destroyed and as you close in the twins spawn in

[lilac ermine]

Oh idk if I've done those yet

[worn yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1378625015637082125.webp?size=96&animated=true

[upbeat patrol]

you have to to unlock like, all of the vendors no?

[lilac ermine]

Really

Ive played before there was campaign missions

[upbeat patrol]

ive had to

[honest shale]

Well if you hung around to fight them there then yeah, I'd agree with my positioning argument. Let them follow you.

[lilac ermine]

I shouldve run but thats for cowards

I was fighting all 5 of them at once in that small space

[grand jewel]

[mighty belfry]

Orange is easy

Rotten orange is

Truly one of the Havoc experiences of all time

[limber cradle]

Easy if you spam things that are good into it

Objectively miserable otherwise

[mighty belfry]

It's an extreme DPS check

[limber cradle]

It's not even a raw dps check tho tbh

Like if it was more stuff would be viable

[rancid coral]

It's barely any different from rotten alone

Waos up to 25% dr on the rotten

Not like we were already dealing with 75/50% for the most part xddd

Rotten red is the nightmare rn

And if they dare to readd pink, rotten pink will be hell even worse since it got buffed

[mighty belfry]

It is very much different. You can actually tell that the armor dies slower than it already does innately.

[limber cradle]

I like that everytime havoc combos come up it's rotten+X

[mighty belfry]

And when you don't have a team that's on the same page about it being a DPS check, it's insufferable.

[rancid coral]

Yeah but at least there's no bigger threat it will just take longer

[limber cradle]

Debatable

The longer a mission takes the more chances you have to fuck up

[mighty belfry]

Yeah. And taking longer is a big deal in smaller spaces.

Especially when you start getting more armor trickling in when you're already dealing with an armor horde.

[rancid coral]

I'm pretty sure the situations in which you can get truly cornered are barely

The team is to blame for not taking the fight in a good place

The only way that could happen is being forced to fight after a dropdown and 5000 shits spawn

[mighty belfry]

Yeah?

[rancid coral]

That would defenitely be unlucky

[limber cradle]

Nah sometimes the places the packs get sent to you are kinda untenable

[mighty belfry]

That's not at all a rare occasion in rotten armor.

[rancid coral]

Oh for sure I'm aware but

I think people thinks it happens a lot more than it really does

[mighty belfry]

Like you can say "barely" but that's just not true with how some spawns will play out.

And how deliberately fucked their placements are.

[rancid coral]

They should really just overhaul rotten armour...

[mighty belfry]

Just stop the armor from trickling.

[rancid coral]

If they wanted gigatanks that not the issue, the issue is that these fucking gigatanks are carapace

[mighty belfry]

That is honestly one of the biggest issues with it right there.

[rancid coral]

It would've been so easy to like keep it as it is, but replace the carapace/flak armour of the maulers, ragers and crushers for infested

Boom problem instantly solved

Everyone would be so much happier

[mighty belfry]

The fact that they just do not give a shit about the budget system like they should.

While they had specifically nerfed crusher spawns to accomodate for the HP change.

Like

???

[rancid coral]

Oh they "do" give a fuck, but they instead replace hordes, and they count the same as a horde Even if it's 500 more times dangerous than a horde

[mighty belfry]

That's what I mean

Normally they're a much more scarce resource for the AI director.

[rancid coral]

Honestly, if they were infested instead of carapace, it'd be so much better

[mighty belfry]

But Rotten Armor just takes that and laughs in your face.

[rancid coral]

Just make them infested please

[mighty belfry]

My intrigue

Is the insistence on Fatshark of keeping it in the game

When I can count on one hand the amount of people that actually like it

[rancid coral]

Completely conspiracy theory but

[limber cradle]

I think it's wildly funny rot armor somehow keeps popping up

[rancid coral]

I do believe this is because they don't want havoc winrates to be very high

And I'd say the most recent reintroduction in this season it's because they "fixed" the bug it had

Which ofc made it a lot worse to deal with

[mighty belfry]

Funny enough, I actually think if you know how to set your build up, I think it can be easier to deal with than it was before

[limber cradle]

I don't think they care tbh

[mighty belfry]

But the issue is that it becomes a loadout check too in that regard.

[rancid coral]

They could always just increase their hp of these new rotten

Something like 25-50% more hp so they're walls but don't deny 99999 of the melee arsenal

[mighty belfry]

My rampage scum actually does really good damage to rotten armor but I specifically have to run flesh tearer on my shivs to abuse DOTs to wittle their DR down.

[rancid coral]

Honestly I think this is the Big issue they'd need to address

It's silly that they're vulnerable to DoT

If anything it should be the opposite IMO

[mighty belfry]

^