hivescum-class

[dim moth]

I used it on bounty hunter if I needed more horde clear I would just shoot them

[main trellis]

V1 axe was better than V2

[dim moth]

infinite ammo gaming

[tropic crag]

yeah v1 axe was better from my memory... still didn't like it tho lol

[kind mist]

v2 axe was good until cataclysm and enemy creep broke it.

[tropic crag]

honestly i just think that FS does bonking way better than hacking in terms of game feel so i don't like most hacking or slashing weapons ... i do like the bonesaw tho and the chainaxe (but those are more bonky)

[main trellis]

Mace enjoyer

[ocean hollow]

It's interesting we don't have like

Thunderhammer aoe slam

[tropic crag]

slayer could still get by, it was more work than it was worth tho

[ocean hollow]

That hits the floor

and everything around it goes boom

[dim moth]

executioner's sword and force greatsword are honorary hacking weapons

[kind mist]

Worst part of bonk weapons in darktide is every enemy has the same skull degloving death.

[main trellis]

Why use 1 when you can use 2

[dim moth]

uppercut a guy so hard his head shrinks into his neck

yes very cool

[tropic crag]

the downstrike on the ex sword is the sole reason i don't like it, it feels like the sword shrinks to 1 inch long and drags down my body instead of a wild downward slash

[main trellis]

Never liked exec sword (despite loving them as a historical arm); no mobility

[dim moth]

mobility is a scam made by big dueling sword to get you to use boring weapons only

[main trellis]

You get a mixed horde & you suffer

[tropic crag]

(i think i prefer the 1h axe on slayer to the daxes, but i'm a greathammer enthusiast so my opinion is only so valid )

[main trellis]

I prefer greatsword power stacking

[main trellis]

I use Ghammer on ironboi

[tropic crag]

greathammer on krub or dwarf on any class for me is just

[dim moth]

didn't like greathammer

[main trellis]

I use Ghammer on Sir K too

[tropic crag]

i like that lights are used to armor and the heavies are for lighter enemies... and i liked the ways the combos flowed if you didn't just heavy chain spam

[main trellis]

Its literally like Thammer

[tropic crag]

also the push attack (which was better before they stopped it from bouncing on armor and more fun back then but the new version is still fun and good)

[main trellis]

In terms of moveset

[dim moth]

yeah and then thammer the strikedown lights don't kill armor or lighter enemies!

very cool

[tropic crag]

i don't like the thammer because i can't put it on the scum and get slayer like speeds.... so i just pretend thammer isn't a weapon

[main trellis]

Thats what your special is for my lil furry friend

[tropic crag]

yeah greathammer in vt2 is just like good against all enemies, its kind of a cheater weapon but i love it

[main trellis]

[main trellis]

Wish arby could use it

[tropic crag]

honestly yeah, if even arby could use the thammer i would probably love the thammer lol

[versed spruce]

I just wish thammer didn't blow

Well it doesn't blow but yk

It's dependent on martyrdom to do good damage and relic blade does its shtick almost as well despite being a generalist

[mighty belfry]

I do yes

I was trying without but the extra consistency in horde clear is undeniable.

And it helps a lot on the rare chances I need to stack both rampage and my stimm to dish out some crazy damage if a situation gets dicey enough to call for it.

Since it helps with rampages downtime.

[main trellis]

I don’t use marty with Thammer & its good still

[tropic crag]

i'd have a hard time arguing that its actually bad to run both HV and HC... but i usually want that node somewhere else to put it into HC and i feel like i get more out of it somewhere else

[mighty belfry]

Relic blade is noticeably worse for monstrosities except for beast of nurgle

[tropic crag]

but like, if someone wants to spend the 1 node to grab it... theiir build is still gonna be good lol

because its literally a tax free node

[mighty belfry]

Idk it is really hard looking past being able to dispatch non ogryn elites more consistently

As well as letting hyperviolence's overkill feed into hypercrit to get some crazy horde clear.

[tropic crag]

i feel like they already get dispatched very consistently tbh but like... if your habits expect the type of culling that HC brings to the table then yeah keep doing it

like muscle memory in these games is huge

so i get sticking with it once you're used to it

[mighty belfry]

Doesn't hurt to have more, especially in the rare occasions where you don't have rampage or a damage stimm up.

It's been doing me wonders in havoc. Noticeably so.

[tropic crag]

yeah its why i'm saying it won't even make the build bad or even worse, its 1 node that isn't taking from anything critical on any build i can think of that would run both

so its either that or like... a QoL node or something, and if you're treating HC like a QoL node then yeah that makes sense to stack them like that

[elder oasis]

So I'm working a Jason Todd inspired build for funnsies, I cannot seem to find anything online or in the pinned message. Would any of the more experienced players mind proofing my build or offer some suggestions?

[mighty belfry]

Sure.

[tropic crag]

man seeing the name Jason Todd brought back so many flashbacks of jokes people would tell about that particular robin when i worked in a comic shop

[elder oasis]

He's my favorite, it's unfortunate he doesn't seem to have a consistently good writing staff on him. lot's of potential. but can't have everything you want you know?

[tropic crag]

yeah i was never a DC fan but i read plenty of it and i never saw why he was so hated outside of some of the writing itself... but thats not on the character anymore than other comic characters

i feel like the hate for him died down alot tho as the years went on which is good

[elder oasis]

disregard, I seem to be having issues with my screen shot on my laptop.

I appreciate your willingness though

[mighty belfry]

No problemo. Just feel free to ping whenever you can post it up. If not me, someone will be around to give some input.

[tropic crag]

someone will usually weigh in on posted builds yeah lol

[elder oasis]

oh wait! got it.

[mighty belfry]

You know. I'm genuinely like

Shocked you skipped nimble and got everything else around it.

That's a new one for me.

[tropic crag]

i kind of get it given the theme tbh

[mighty belfry]

Yeah that's fair.

[elder oasis]

it was either nimble or slippery customer, I chose slippery customer. seemed to make more sense to me. Would you recommend it instead?

[mighty belfry]

I recommend nimble far more

[tropic crag]

yeah nimble tends to just be the more high value node

[mighty belfry]

Dodge distance and speed is really valuable for this class.

Heck you could get away with having just nimble in the middle there and that's it.

[tropic crag]

slippery customer is the dodge melee on slide thing right?

[mighty belfry]

Maybe jittery if you wanna dodge with no care in the world.

[tropic crag]

because that does feel very robin-esq but also... depends on how much you want to stick to the theme lol

[elder oasis]

melee attack immunity.

[mighty belfry]

It does.

[tropic crag]

yeah so i think slippery customer is good for the theming but nimble is just good good

[mighty belfry]

And I suppose Untouchable does too.

Even if Untouchable in practice is kind of a meme.

[elder oasis]

I couldnt figure out how to zoom out for the full view 💀 I'm technologically moronic, so a little grace 🙏

[mighty belfry]

Yeah my main thought is, having those three nodes in the middle bottom right there.

[idle ore]

this is using gameslantern

makes the single ss easier

[elder oasis]

gamesslantern?

[idle ore]

tried to keep it faithful to what you wanted

[mighty belfry]

The website where people make builds.

[tropic crag]

its a website, they have a tool for darktide that lets you mock up builds

[mighty belfry]

90% of them being bad but let's not worry about that

[elder oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/gotcha-i-got-you-i-get-it-gif-15660969

[tropic crag]

lol maybe even more than 90%

[main trellis]

The only proper way; nimble & personal skill is all you ever gonna need from mobility nodes in the middle

[mighty belfry]

Yeah I haven't ran anything but nimble in a while now.

[main trellis]

Same

[mighty belfry]

Everything else messes with my muscle memory too much to justify using it imho

And Untouchable straight up can be detrimental to you and your team.

[elder oasis]

okay I've retooled the talent tree. any recommendations on curios or weapons? I think I've done pretty good with those, but always willing to be further optimized while staying in theme. Lord knows I'm a mouthbreather with half of this.

[mighty belfry]

Crow bar works for the theme but it isn't the most optimized choice for sure.

[elder oasis]

oh yes, I have VERY much so realized it isn't optimized for weapon choice, but also gotta stay on brand haha

[mighty belfry]

Other than that, I'd say it's pretty doable with what Ice posted honestly

[elder oasis]

well I appreciate the input gang. let's give it a spin and see how it runs!

@idle ore special thanks for the talent tree set up!

[gusty grotto]

Fast acting stimms good or bad?

[bronze glade]

Which one is that again?

The box subnode? If so, it’s mandatory

[idle ore]

take it

[gusty grotto]

yeah 5 sec uptime but you can leave and it last for another 15 secs

[bronze glade]

Oh yah that’s mandatory

[gusty grotto]

does it reduce corruption and give immunity for the 15 secs?

[tropic crag]

yeah the 15 second linger is just straight up an upgrade

[tranquil berry]

give ogryn slippery customer. big man is uber-nimble. believe it!

[tropic crag]

if FS had any guts we'd have buttered up ogryn

[trim wind]

Nude buttered ogryn

[tropic crag]

a true gaming experience

[restive frost]

bruh

do 17% toughness curio only exist in legends or wat

[idle ore]

did you spam melk

[tropic crag]

i just use 15s and 16s because that extra 1% is not worth the effort

[restive frost]

i have sometimes

well got a +21% hp

[trim wind]

Melk is the way generally, stalking brunts is the way to madness

[bronze glade]

Get back to the slots

[tropic crag]

i've found a couple of 17s over time just checking brunts once a play session lol

[gusty grotto]

I have not rolled a single one in my entire time playing this game

[restive frost]

spent 9k didnt get any

[gusty grotto]

and ive been spamming melk

I just give up and go for the +1 wounds ones

[restive frost]

got another +3 stam one but prob best to stick with 2x toughness and 1 stam

[tropic crag]

honestly i would treat the ones you hunt for as 16s and just leave 17s as lucky finds

and not stress it otherwise because the extra 3% isn't a deal breaker

[patent bone]

Refresh my memory, what do you have for the Blessings and perks?

[gusty grotto]

thoughts on my crowbar (running crit for coated weaponry since toxic crowbar is funny)

[mighty belfry]

Wounds?

[livid raven]

uh do you really fully charge attacks

[gusty grotto]

well +1 is the only possible and maximum value so its the easiest "maxed out" curio to get

[livid raven]

maybe don't run wound curios at all

[gusty grotto]

yeah I pop rampage and I do

[livid raven]

i don't even want to imagine

[mighty belfry]

It's also the worst.

Especially for hive scum actually.

[dim moth]

provides no tactical advantage whatsoever

stamina max for the DAMAGE if you ain't a coward

or take health/toughness so you don't die to a stiff breeze if you are

[amber sundial]

Technically also debuffs you due to how med stims work

[dim moth]

yeah

and corruption cleanse lmao

takes less corruption for it to be permanent

[elder oasis]

3 quick runs later, and I am very glad I came here looking for info for that jason todd build.

[gusty grotto]

I just dont want to spend all my resources on a 15% toughness curio when I can randomly get a 17% one and all my investment goes to waste

[livid raven]

that's a strange reason to use wound curios

[elder oasis]

melk bucks and rando curio? I never use my melk bucks for much until they drop a new class. all my shit has sat maxed for years until arbites and then HS.

I had something like 20k melk bucks before HS.

[amber sundial]

I’m constantly broke on Melk bucks since I still haven’t gotten god roll curios lol

I have like 2 max curios on vet and that’s it

[gusty grotto]

same

[bronze glade]

Blessings should be superiority and opportunist

Realistically cbar sucks either way tho

[elder oasis]

hey, don't make fun of my bonk stick.

(it really do be pretty trash though)

[gusty grotto]

I rather use shivs any day of the week tbh but im just getting it to rank 20

[elder oasis]

just sacrifice brunt rando's till 20?

[gusty grotto]

youre assuming that I nonstop grind this game and have like 2 million dockets

I dont

[gusty grotto]

imo they are better dealing at armor than the crowbars slow ass alternate mode

[bronze glade]

Fair

[bronze glade]

At least shovel gets op blessings 😭

[livid raven]

apart from the obvious suspects, you'd be hardpressed to find melees that do worse against armor than crowbar in hivescum's arsenal

[gusty grotto]

genuinely the chainsword is just the better version of the crowbar

the alternate is actually not cumbersome and a hinderance to switch in between horde clear

[elder oasis]

The shovel is a gift from the emperor and I’ll hear no trash talk on my favorite melee weapon. (Again it do kinda be trash though)

[livid raven]

i always thought the crowbar was like the shovel

but garbage fire

[bronze glade]

Basically lol

[vapid jungle]

HE KEEPS HACKIN AND WHACKIN AND SLASHIN

[gusty grotto]

whats the consensus on the bone saw? havent tried it yet

[elder oasis]

My vet is actually named ButcherPete and my primary class.

[gusty grotto]

but I think it would be good in a chem toxin build

[livid raven]

imo

pretty close to the crowbar

[mighty belfry]

Bonesaw is

Okay.

[elder oasis]

And by the way the line is “hackin and whackin and smackin”

[livid raven]

it at least does something more than being a much worse shovel

[vapid jungle]

Ohhh

That old sound quality is hard to hear

[elder oasis]

Friggin neeerrrddd

[limber cradle]

I really wish the crowbar was good

Not like shiv tier

[vapid jungle]

That's my second favorite song only trailing grandma playing the numbers

[limber cradle]

But also not "why the fuck would i use this" tier

[frigid wyvern]

I need to take another shit

[livid raven]

it do be kinda strange when the supposed generalist weapon is worse at everything compared to uh

two knives made out of a pipe

[austere coyote]

it's a really good bit of pipe, tbf

[bronze glade]

At least shovel tier 😭

[limber cradle]

Even if you go run the stagger perks it feels god awful

[limber cradle]

Literally

[livid raven]

actually just remove the crowbar and add the shovel

it would go pretty hard on scum imo

[limber cradle]

Ik haha crit weapon synergizes well with crit class but goddamn the shivs feel too good

Like the ttk/swings to kill between shivs and cbar feel insane

[gusty grotto]

The only thing I have against the shivs

is that theyre god damn shivs

sharpened pieces of scrap metal in a world of melee weapons like chain swords

[limber cradle]

I unironically find great joy in using my bits of broken pipe to kill a PlOgryn

Space marines need bolters and power weapons to do that

Me? Bit of crack and some rusty metal.

Thats why bounty hunter is infact the best at what they do lmfao

[gusty grotto]

I do feel like a true crackhead when I pop rampage and go in with the shivs

[mighty belfry]

Shovel good

[limber cradle]

Would it have been so hard to make cbar shovel 2?

Shivs are knife 2+

[livid raven]

crowbar sacrificing itself for shivs and bonesaw by getting 95% of the shit blessings

[limber cradle]

Bonesaw is like

Fine ime

Solidly milquetoast

[tropic crag]

honestly... in the world of 40k if you see a dude holding just shivs and nothing else and he's doing like... fine in the middle of something like this? you fear those shivs more than any power sword

[frigid wyvern]

Ugh that was quite the dump that was just taken

[austere coyote]

do the shivs having marks imply there's forgeworlds that exist solely to sharpen bits of pipe

[gusty grotto]

make it have like a taped on handle at the bottom and call it the "makeshift spear"

a spear would go pretty hard

[tropic crag]

lol naw one is made by greg in one alley and the other one is made by gary under the overpass

[limber cradle]

Gives me a chuckle everytime I drop some bits of rusty pipe infront of Hadron and go "upgrade it"

[livid raven]

the setting has powerspears but fatshark prefers to add some shitty crowbar or something

[drifting heron]

No, because the world is listed as Improvised

[dim moth]

to be fair it is kind of nice to see the more "common" bits of the imperium that aren't represented often

But maybe they're not represented often for a reason

[tropic crag]

i like to think they are actually taken from something special so hadron treats them like artifacts

[dim moth]

strange name for a forge world but I've seen weirder

[amber sundial]

Don’t check Clandestine Gloriana’s infrastructure:)

[gusty grotto]

and the rank 20 skin is plastered in gold lmao

[tropic crag]

one of the most iconic 40k weapons is the hand sharpened shovel so like... trash weapons are part of the setting as much as the crazy future tech is

[limber cradle]

Tbh I do not like the mastery skins on scum weapons

[gusty grotto]

it is funny though to have dripped out shivs

[limber cradle]

I use the slop shop pipe skin for them tbh, or the basic ribbons

[dim moth]

the dclaw sword is also rare catachan weaponry representation

[tropic crag]

i like the red bone saw

[dim moth]

you see the catachans semi frequently thanks to the dawn of war games usually having them as special units

their gear less so

[tropic crag]

that is true tbh

[gusty grotto]

and the rank 20 crowbar skin makes sense since its branded as the "enginseer's crowbar"

[tropic crag]

we probably stole the red bone saw from the barber

[limber cradle]

I like the rank 20 crowbar skin fwiw

https://tenor.com/view/half-life-crowbar-bash-bashing-gif-24267947

[frigid wyvern]

Does the bone saw have cleave?

[livid raven]

no

[drifting heron]

Yes

[limber cradle]

I do kinda wish they didn't have the part for ornaments unless you put an ornament on tho

[drifting heron]

All melee weapons have cleave

It came free with your game mechanics

[gusty grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/halflife1-silodoor-scientist-crowbar-gordonfreeman-gif-6776069464679636422

[drifting heron]

Seriously though it has Shock and Awe

[livid raven]

by itself has turboass cleave

you gotta fix that with blessings and talents

[drifting heron]

Which gives you hilarious cleave when combined with tree stuff

[dim moth]

and up to 3 chem toxin on hit which kills all fodder units instantly

very amusing weapon

[gusty grotto]

the cleaver has shitty cleave...

ironic

[tropic crag]

honestly honestly? outside of havoc you're fine swinging at each head and mixing heavy 2's into your lights... in havoc you can even still get by without the cleave stuff but like... you don't want to

[tropic crag]

to be fair its a saw not a cleaver

[livid raven]

pretty sure most of its moves have like

1 cleave

[tropic crag]

yeah its pretty much 1 or like 1.5 or something

which is enough to get by with scum attack speeds

on other classes the bonesaw would like... hyper suck

but its actually pretty good thinks to scum turbo buffing all weapons lol

[keen timber]

bonesaw still sucks on scum lol

[tropic crag]

not everyone likes it but it can do fine at havoc, thats not really sucks territory

[dim moth]

also it takes very few hits for an enemy to actually be dead with it

because of the chem tox DoT

like I mentioned before on a crit 3 stacks of chem tox will kill any fodder enemy

so every single enemy you touch with its cleave on a crit is probably going to die

[tropic crag]

yeah, once you learn how many it actually takes to kill you can turn away from them faster

[dim moth]

dreg ragers die to 1-2 swings

I don't even bother to kill armor with just needle pistol shots I'll shoot them once to get a quick start and just bonesaw them a few times to kill them

and despite how shit they feel the strikedown heavies do unironically do a lot of damage to unyielding/maniacs

[tropic crag]

honestly once you use them enough they start to feel better

but yeah they aren't like... good feeling

[hearty bluff]

Should I do missile launcher or Chem Grenade?

[mighty belfry]

Both are very good choices.

[frigid wyvern]

Now this is an awesome lunch

[frigid wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[hearty bluff]

I’ll try em both out then

[vapid jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/gjirlfriend-gif-12671304431198862809

[grand shard]

wait, it doesnt specify Melee... so on ANY kill?

[mighty belfry]

To clarify, chem nades are just an outright better immolation grenade. Very good for area control since anything that isn't an ogryn or boss dies relatively quickly in the AoE.

Boom bringer is as it sounds. Big rocket launcher. Big explosion. Will delete even crushers in the explosion radius in auric at least.

[mighty belfry]

Congratulations, you've found the most overpowered thing about this class.

[dim moth]

not really

infinite ammo ranged weaponry is hardly new

[lilac ermine]

It probably is most overpowered single talent but theres more overpowered things

[fast prawn]

Le Scumme Au Chocolat

[lilac ermine]

Alot of scums dont even use pickpocket and still wreck

While nimble and jittery is used like every build

[fast prawn]

Scum sees ammo pickups and audibly gags

[bronze glade]

I’ve seen quite a few gun scum without pickpocket

And it drives me fucking insane

[foggy phoenix]

I'll have you know that I used to pick up each and every ammo bag I saw even when I had pickpocket for the 1st week since the class dropped, if only because Darktide finally felt like an FPS shooter without melee for the first time.

The closest feeling to DT being an actual first-person shooter instead of a predominantly melee game was when playing as a flame psyker, largely because melee didn't at all feel like an obligatory mechanic.

[fast prawn]

As flame psyker nothing feels obligatory

[final temple]

playing the game not even

[drifting heron]

Why are you playing dt if you want to play a generic FPS

[foggy phoenix]

The complexity and possibility for skill expression keeps it interesting, even if my expectations were shattered the very first time I played the game as, what I thought to be a ranged class at the time, Vet.

[winter tusk]

Time to finally use dual auto pistols, dumpstat?

[bronze glade]

Tbf you can play vet as a ranged class

[bronze glade]

For desperado? Collateral

For non desperado? Mobility

[foggy phoenix]

I remember finally dropping the reconlas when I was struggling above heresy.

Granted, it was still a process of suffering since I forced myself to complete all vet penances first before moving to other classes.

Still remember the time maelstroms could be completed below auric difficulty, even if it was a brief period.

[dim moth]

I dunno even for a single talent I feel like there's more busted shit

[fallen crypt]

Is practiced deployment good?

[woeful hill]

yes

[fallen crypt]

Thats all I needed

[foggy phoenix]

Only because Scum don't have access to bolters

We have Space Marines at home:

[supple torrent]

idk it doesnt feel as broken until I run it with needle pistol

[foggy phoenix]

Largely because needle pistols can deal with anything short of a massive trash-only horde

[supple torrent]

in like a melee or toxin build

[foggy phoenix]

The ability to kite even walls of rotten crushers safely and reliably is a hell of an ability

[supple torrent]

well a toxin build is just melee I guess.

[vapid jungle]

Like?

[winter tusk]

What perks for dual autos?

[supple torrent]

blaze away and stagger/reload one

[foggy phoenix]

Those be blessings, not perks.

[vapid jungle]

Flaniac

[supple torrent]

ih right. uuh flak and maniac/unyielding

[winter tusk]

i went flak uny

had teammates waiting to run it

[foggy phoenix]

I run flak/unyielding, because maniacs usually die quickly enough, and don't really come in massive numbers the same way flaks do.

[supple torrent]

man I never think about perks. Rare to have it change drastically between weapons

[foggy phoenix]

Unyielding is for murdering monstrosities.

Now if only the IAG/Dautos were better at killing captains...

[supple torrent]

you're gonna pull out your shivs and ur gonna like it

[foggy phoenix]

I stopped running desp nowadays since I feel like every havoc match features rotten armor

[vapid jungle]

Shivs are so good for captains. Melts the shield.

[foggy phoenix]

I still find it funny that a bunch of shivs made from improvised bits and pieces are comparable to class-exclusive gear that are otherwise canonically supposed to be stronger, like power swords, relic blades and force weapons.

[vapid jungle]

I was saying that earlier we call them weapon marks but its a wine opener vs box opener

Real funny stuff

I hope we get a frying pan soon

The special throws hot oil

[supple torrent]

I don't care about the theme I feel like fatshark could have made the weapons look cooler.

[foggy phoenix]

The shivs themselves are essentially knives with a bit less mobility for what are essentially poisoned zealot knives (which is a blitz) and faster horde clear

So good, every other melee option seems irrelevant for anything other than personal entertainment

[supple torrent]

at least cbar feels nice to use. idk if ill ever touch bonesaw again

[foggy phoenix]

I'd use the saw over the crowbar any time.

Hell, just give scum a shovel and I'll use that over both.

[grand shard]

actually, why doesnt scum has a shovel.

[supple torrent]

cbar just needs a little love. speed up the special and swap mode. bonesaw you complete surgery

[bronze glade]

ironically, saw is the stronger of the two (they both suck)

[supple torrent]

I doubt any of the scum have scene dirt in years

I know saw is stronger it just feels awful to use

[lilac schooner]

one of vets few class weapons

[foggy phoenix]

I like to think that the astra militarum has such an iron grip over everything logistics-related that standard-issue equipment like shovels and lasguns are accounted for and re-shipped to its hundredth new user every time the previous one dies.

[drifting heron]

Wrong

The imperial logistical situation is a fucking nightmare

And also a seperate organization

[foggy phoenix]

The administratum, yes.

[supple torrent]

not even girlyman can save it

[drifting heron]

They loose planets sometimes, let alone a few shipments of life saving supplies

[grand shard]

lasgun is one thing.
but shovels?!

[supple torrent]

tbf those are military shovels

[grand shard]

Hive City should have enough shovels

well, yeah

[foggy phoenix]

Point is, I don't think it's feasible to be able to constantly equip billions of soldiers across a galactic empire unless they keep tabs on everything, or they have a massive ready stockpile that ensures that every guardsman hops into a battlefield equipped with a flak jacket, helmet, knife and flashlight

[supple torrent]

They just have like alot of stuff

[drifting heron]

See thats the funny part

They don't

Stuff goes missing, people go out under armed and under prepared

[foggy phoenix]

Equipment is canonically known to be in service for thousands of years. Even humble guardsman flashlights

[drifting heron]

But it works well enough that they don't die

[supple torrent]

that too. They have so many planets that most of the time it doesnt matter

[drifting heron]

No guard grade lasgun is lasting a thousand years

[foggy phoenix]

In the first place, how would one be able to discern the storied histories of such weapons, if not for the fact that they have accounted for that weapon's history

[drifting heron]

No guard grade anything for that matter

[drifting heron]

They just make it up or make or ask the people who handled it

Half of them are propaganda

[foggy phoenix]

It's not like a random admech can just pick up some random gun looted from the cold dead hands of a dead guardsman and go "wow, this is actually a hundred-year old relic. One that fought in x and y campaigns"

[supple torrent]

I mean they're probably keeping track of space marine weapons. But not every guard one.

They just make more and assume that this regiment should come back with x amount of weapons

[drifting heron]

again

Half these storied weapons are propaganda

[supple torrent]

Or not come back at all.

[foggy phoenix]

I like my administratum to be on the more "so autistically obsessed most equipment is accounted for such that even the lowliest guardsman is equipped with standard equipment" rather than "so busy filing the paperwork of a century-old war that's no longer relevant"

[drifting heron]

I think the administratum being an absolute clusterfuck is really funny

Its also like

[supple torrent]

I think them being a clusterfuck is canon

[drifting heron]

The point

[foggy phoenix]

Look, a city hall is already busy with the paperwork of, well, a city.

Now imagine a country. Then a planet. Then an empire featuring thousands of planets.

[supple torrent]

millions of planets

or billions I cant remember which one

[foggy phoenix]

That each guardsman has the bare minimum of equipment when they start fighting on the field

Is a miracle in of itself

Especially when a lot of these pieces of equipment are manufactured from some other planet

And shipped across the galaxy

[supple torrent]

The idea is there are millions of worlds dedicated to producing lazguns. So they cant really run out. But they can mess up a shipment of lazguns to your specific regiment

[foggy phoenix]

Under that logic, you'd think there'd be millions of different variants for each lasgun, but no.

[supple torrent]

mechanicum

[foggy phoenix]

Most of the known lasgun variants that often show up feature the same dozen or so names, all largely distinguished through marks

[supple torrent]

Or is it mechanicus

[foggy phoenix]

One can argue that STCs are literally just pure magic at this point, given how STCs are largely responsible for standardizing the shit out of every single manufacturing for the entire imperium

But for something to remain consistent enough that it's recognizable as a certain category of weapon and mark, across millions of worlds

You have to suspend your disbelief, somewhere.
Authors don't really appreciate scale.

[supple torrent]

It probably isn't consistent. It's just the mechanicus approved it as some point

[zenith fern]

Carapace, unyield
Uncanny strike and precognition

That was also with stimm applied but precognition was not active

[low harbor]

They are the same attack template

[zenith fern]

You talking about the marks?

[low harbor]

Knife’s push atks are considered as “heavy attack”

[zenith fern]

Ahh I see

[cedar cairn]

Got sucked into an auric Twins mission as Scum
Vraks IA Desperado shreds Rinda so quickly it's not even funny

[patent bone]

Ahh nice. I might just add it to my builds and see if it works

[bronze glade]

vraks desperado 🥱

[patent bone]

But another time because I got a new pupper

And she's a bit of a doozy

[woeful hill]

wait till you see braced ttk on rinda

its goofy

[cedar cairn]

I've tried playing with Braced but it just doesn't hit the same for me

[woeful hill]

fair

[zenith fern]

Braced does fun stuff

[patent bone]

Braced really is fun

[zenith fern]

But vraks is more easy to use

[patent bone]

But I LOVE Akimbo

[cedar cairn]

Braced feels just slightly too slow

[unique spire]

Get blue gun

Blue equals shoot faster

[cedar cairn]

Not the gun's firing rate, just the movement slowdown when you fire

[spark gyro]

Skygriddy

[fast prawn]

Not being able to sprint and reload with dual autopistols / glocknballs makes me upset

[final temple]

body politic: pre heresy mechanicum. post mechanicus

and the cult is always mechanicum

[stark igloo]

hi! can anyone give talents for a double barrel shotgun desperado build?

[tropic crag]

i think its mostly like the normal gunscum build but honestly i've not tried out the double barrel yet, only heard about it from people who have tried it

[crude dagger]

I broke it

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/jenga-bricks-kid-crash-rozpierdol-gif-21433393

[crude dagger]

Its deadass letting me reassign all those to whatever

[woeful hill]

It's broken....

[crude dagger]

The jittery node right there ive determined is breaking it

If you take slippery customer into it you can just unspec slippery customer

Suddenly it's disconnected

Crap it's doing it to nimble as well

[tropic crag]

i had it doing that to the blitz abilities

[echo python]

That's deliberate isn't it

It won't save the build if you do that, but they added that functionality in the hivescum patch so you don't have to unassign all the talents up to that point if all you want to change is one node or whatever

[tropic crag]

i thought so but it wont work all the time for me so i thought it was a bug tbh

[fierce aurora]

Does ammo share perk synergise with pickpocket

[tropic crag]

like after noticing it i tried it on other builds and nope never again

[tropic crag]

they don't work against eachother but i don't think pickpocket triggers the share

but maybe i'm wrong i've only played enough of gunscum to get the penances

[fierce aurora]

Was just a thought I have. But I can’t test it rn.

[tropic crag]

i'm pretty sure pick pocket just keeps you from running dry otherwise that would be even more busted

[fierce aurora]

It would’ve been less busted than the texture streamer.

[tropic crag]

if you haven't tried verifying sometimes that fixes weird things like that because dt installs like to break

but it might be something totally different

[fierce aurora]

I’ll give it a shot when I get home.

But haven’t got someone to test it with.

[light phoenix]

Which Chaxe is better for a Rampage Adrenaline build?

[fierce aurora]

The horde clear version I think.

That had the vanguard icon.

[light phoenix]

Aight thanks

[bronze glade]

Mk 12

[echo python]

Rashad is usually considered the best option

Just overall

Chaxes get their anti-horde capabilities primarily through Brutal Momentum anyway, and the Rashad and Antax have the same light attack moveset for enabling that

but Rashad is better against crushers

[patent bone]

Might have to test it out. Would it work good on ranged builds?

[echo python]

Maybe. It's going to be helped by Sweet Spot for sure if you're using that

It's a solid all-rounder, but if you're going for a mainly ranged build you're probably already handling most mixed hordes with your ranged weapon. Using a melee that lets you handle Carapace is a good idea, and both Rashad and the shivs (and the combat blade, I think) can do some work on that.

[fierce aurora]

Chaxes are chain axes. No?

[zenith fern]

Yes

Caxe, combat axe
Taxe, tactical axe

[echo python]

Aaaaaaaaaoooooooo

I need my coffee

and I need to use chaxes more often

[fierce aurora]

I want to level chain axe on my hivescum.

[vast yoke]

I can give you a box build with db because it doesn't actually benefit much from desperado

but it absolutely fiends for reload stim effects

[livid raven]

yeah it doesn't really get anything from desperado

[nova valley]

I see a lot of people (talking about you Don Dònte) hating the crowbar. But, honestly, I find it quite amazing. Can opener seems a great team supp, and the fact that 1st mode is blind swings, while the 2nd staggers ANYTHING makes it amazing! Why the hate is so strong on it?

[livid raven]

the so called blind swings are very mediocre and slow with not much cleave

[spice cloud]

What diff u playing?

[livid raven]

the special mode does not do much damage, drags on (like chainsword) and only works on one crusher

it has also has a rather uhhh

[verbal dew]

best team support is usually killing the thing instead of giving it a bunch of brittleness stacks

[livid raven]

interesting blessing selection

[nova valley]

Havoc 30 to 40.

[nova valley]

Granted, I don't use it as primary damage deal, I use it as back up when Desperado fails. BUT, I find it very versatile

[nova valley]

I do not understand why Can Opener it's not mentioned more often. Combined with the drag-stagger, you can literally stunlock crushers. To kill them I keep goin if the situation permits, otherwise I simply zooka them

[livid raven]

you can stunlock one crusher

and it also locks you in place

[nova valley]

2 if you are on drugs (fast drugs)

[nova valley]

That IS a con, I'll give you that

And it Is also super coooool

[main trellis]

Humble trauma rending shockwave
Am i a joke to ya?!

[main trellis]

My friend uses it in despy too and its good at self defence & occasional crusher

[verbal dew]

I usually glaze trauma, but SB Trauma is just better 90% of the time

[flat mist]

Stunlocking one crusher is so whatever

[main trellis]

Use both

[flat mist]

Im not gonna get hit by one crusher

Its when they clown car that issues arise

[nova valley]

I got a zooka for the clown car.

[nova valley]

I know it's trivial, but again, thanks to drugs, you can stunlock 2 of em

Anyway, it is not probably the best weapon, not even comparable to shivs, for example

[reef rose]

some pretty serious sore loser energy from the AI director right there

like, seriously? an instant pounce dog followed by ** eight ** bursters?

[dire badge]

Hit squad

[ocean hollow]

It's trying to combat the third person gameplay advantage

Clearly needs more

[calm aurora]

could have been eighty

[vapid jungle]

This is the AI directors power sword and he needs it to feel good.

I find imagining its actually allen Iverson sending waves of specialists relieves the sting

[upbeat gyro]

I mean, poxbursters coming like Hare Krishna in orderly fashion is fine, imagine had they been coming from 4 different directions at once

[crude dagger]

I'm honestly convinced people don't know what hive scum is doing

Every group of randos I get can't seem to understand that drugs make them strong

[nova valley]

I am convinced you are right

There is still a lot of "Don't know what it is neither what it does, but I hate it anyway" energy around

Part of the community wanted the tech priest so now they are sore about Hs. Other just hate the glass cannon cause they know that one mistake may be fatal.

On the other end of the spectrum you got like arbites, hands down the easiest and most forgivin to play of the classes imho. With it, no one ever refuses you in H40 even with 2 arbies already in a team

[crude dagger]

There's a lit of randos I get that doesn't know how huve scum works in a team, cause i play a supportive bakline HS, and so i die cause them i get hoarded and can't take on 2 crushers at the same time

Meanwhile I'll place my medipack down and NP one ever takes it

I ended up taking the 5s medipack cause cause no one entry does take it

[main trellis]

Everytime i hear crate being dropped i locate it & SNIFF

[crude dagger]

Good

Only the best stimms

Doesn't help that I'm stuck in malice difficulty Cayuga HS doesn't have the power to team carry lads who shouldn't be in heresey

[rotund agate]

"Get some of this, Killjoys!"

[tranquil fjord]

tech priest was promised to them 3000 years ago

[upbeat gyro]

This was me still about 2 weeks ago before i bought the DLC, actually make it 1 week, after i started using medkit myself too did i get it

This game certainly isnt too clear on these things so you gotta put effort to understand how things work

[crude dagger]

I do try to make a valiant effort to get at least 1 person with my medipack

2 if I'm lucky

[upbeat gyro]

Actually, i played havoc today, and the hivescum didnt seem to understand how his medipack worked

[crude dagger]

5s isn't a lot of second

[upbeat gyro]

I saw him use it twice during the mission total, while many of us had corruption

[crude dagger]

If they're not using it frequently, then they're probably using it for the stimm

[upbeat gyro]

Even then, he must have gone behind corner to use it only when noone else could since saw only twice in 20ish min mission

[crude dagger]

He could have the 5 second medpack, be aware

[upbeat gyro]

He most certainly did, but still, even in elevator with whole team having corruption, not dropping it

[crude dagger]

I have mine on the 5 second with Booby trap. I use it as a second stimm when my main stimm is on cooldown

I'm never not drugged

I gave up trying to get people with it

[upbeat gyro]

Im not talking about sharing stimm, but the corruption heal effect

[crude dagger]

Right

That's why i still try to hit someone with my performance enhancing drugs

I don't like that it doesn't heal back a corrupted bar

[main trellis]

It does… believe me… even in havoc… right @pulsar aspen ?

[upbeat gyro]

Would be way too strong if it healed on top of removing corruption

Gamebreaking

4 Stimm supply builds could just screw around and constantly drop it and stay alive through all the mistakes

[crude dagger]

No i meant that when a health bar fully corrupts, the medipacj can't cleanse it

Idm that it doesn't heal

That would be insane

[upbeat gyro]

Ah i see

[astral canyon]

thats how every corruption cleanse works except for healing stimms and medicae stations

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah those are "lives", its not green mushroom stim

+1up

[crude dagger]

It just sucks being the squishiest class in the game and not being able to remedy that with cleansing

Forever 2 1shots from casualty

[pulsar aspen]

@main trellis Yes. I can confirm, to both accounts actually.

[nova valley]

And they are still complaining about it!

[crude dagger]

My HS is currently level 21

[upbeat gyro]

Wait until 30 and full build

Then you get tankier, also 400+ curios

[crude dagger]

I can only carry on heresy if my randos are conpetent, or the screen isn't filled with 30 elites

[tranquil fjord]

yeah but now that we have arbites and scum, they have seen their profits from premium classes

and imo it would be the most reasonable next-in-line class to be added

but people just want admech and they want it now

[crude dagger]

Give me mechanicus

Spyker isn't mechanicus

No matter how hard i try to make it work

[pulsar aspen]

Spyker?

[tranquil fjord]

mechanicus mechanics

[upbeat gyro]

Burst of Energy and Hive City Brawler probably best nodes at keeping you alive

Besides the obvious ones

[tranquil fjord]

maybe it would have an overheat mechanic? and an overclock mechanic like outcast engineer

[upbeat gyro]

As in toughness regain or center always-pick-ones

[crude dagger]

Spyker*
I try to pretend smiker it's a mechanicus with a red outfit

[pulsar aspen]

Would be fun if we do get another class soon and it still isn't Mechanicus related

[upbeat gyro]

Mechanicus should just autohack all the puzzles

Maybe make the terminal explode in stunning electricity also while at it staggering all enemies

[nova valley]

Honestly? Yes. I love mechanicus, but at this point, I chose sadism over gain

[crude dagger]

Nah, they should get augementd

Like they can augment their body

[pulsar aspen]

Especially since parts of the community convinced themselves that something Mechanicus related would be the new class and got upset when it wasn't. When nothing really pointed toward the class being Mechanicus related.

[crude dagger]

I mean, hadron is right there

She needs friends

[keen timber]

The two dlc classes so far have been classes from uuuuh

some 40k TTRPG game?

[tranquil fjord]

hasnt hadron mentioned her requests to requisition admechs into the inquisitorial retinue, but has been denied

[keen timber]

so mechanicus might be next

[keen timber]

I believe she'd requisitioned skitarii

[pulsar aspen]

Dark Heresy or something

[tranquil fjord]

i dont remember if it was brahms or grendyl who refused

[crude dagger]

Yep

Whatever
undarks your tide

[tranquil fjord]

there is a plethora of archeotech which the inquisitorial members have specifically ordered missions on getting

[final temple]

I don’t get this glass cannon talk. Scum is not squishier than other classes and its defenses are reliant on basic combat mechanics.

[tranquil fjord]

the mechanicus would have an interest in atoma and securing such productions

[final temple]

Dark Heresy which is effectively ‘Inquisition, The Game’

[crude dagger]

And plenty of dialouge to add

[final temple]

the two missing typical archetypes would be indeed some form of tech adept and some form of scholar

[pulsar aspen]

@final temple Basic combat mechanics, that's the issue.

[final temple]

bad players being bad. sure.

[crude dagger]

Bruh, HS can barely even handle uprising when just starting out

Players can't play perfect

[final temple]

I leveled it at release. This is not true.

[crude dagger]

Grats at not having a life

[livid raven]

if the class relies on basic combat mechanics, then it has poor durability

[final temple]

Has nothing to do with time investment, tho.

[keen timber]

This is literally just skill issue

[crude dagger]

It has no survivalbility

[keen timber]

all classes rely on these things

outside of maybe psyker

[livid raven]

no, the other classes have several better tools to aid them

[final temple]

they didn’t have these at first either, tho. if you want to make the claim that HS has their gimmicks come online late on the leveling curve, sure. But it isn’t a glass cannon just because the power curve is bumpy

[livid raven]

i never made that claim

it just has poor durability in every part of the curve

[keen timber]

Until y'know

hive city brawler

[livid raven]

it has still poor durability even then

[keen timber]

at that point ur just asking for arbite

[crude dagger]

Not when you have litwralky no way of generating toughness or even defense until higher levels

[livid raven]

not clear if you are taking the piss

[keen timber]

are you talking about current scum tree?

[fast surge]

Lol, lmao.

[tender marten]

what invented gripe are we whining about today

[livid raven]

some people dont' want to accept that hivescum has poor durability

[final temple]

Scum literally gets ‘ nuh uh, try again’ talents peppered throughout the tree.

and current skilltree scum has pretty reliable survival tools in the first 5 levels.

[crude dagger]

I'm talking specifically about the low-level experince

[keen timber]

precision violence, voice of tertium and burst of energy are all obtainable in the first 4 levels.

??????????????????????????????

[bronze glade]

i meeeeean does it?

[keen timber]

pro tip

[bronze glade]

it does if you build it that way

but you don't need to

[livid raven]

yeah it does, mathematically it does

[keen timber]

bind ur dodge and jump to different keys and maybe you'll live longer

[bronze glade]

mathematically it can get like 60% tdr/dr pretty easily

so i don't think so

[keen timber]

it has a lot of tools to aid u in not getting hit in the first place too

[livid raven]

it gets like 20% from hive city brawler, let's not count the stim otherwise i'll laugh in your face

what else

10% tdr from the middle node

[bronze glade]

dep / rampage / brawler

[keen timber]

rampage

[livid raven]

glass cannon doesn't care about the ability to dodge hits

[crude dagger]

You don't get stimm until level 5 bro

[hearty bluff]

Is Rampage better than the Stimm Supply? I’m almost always using melee anyways

[keen timber]

stimm supply is a totally different ability for a different purpose

[tranquil fjord]

nimble and jittery are other forms of defense, very good at that

[tender marten]

Not always but mostly

[livid raven]

they are still not about durability

[final temple]

those maths ain’t matching. it just isn’t a passive facetank, that’s fair. and objectively, that makes scum more engaging/challenging to play depending on your skill and the difficulty you level on. that’s a valid criticism. but it just isn’t a ‘glass cannon’.

[bronze glade]

for a mostly melee build i'd say rampage is better

[crude dagger]

Can we not pretend like HS can face tank a crusher

[livid raven]

it can actually

[bronze glade]

but you can

[keen timber]

It can?

[livid raven]

you are left with like 2 hp or so

it's pretty close

[crude dagger]

Like this isn't arby where you generate toughness by whacking shit real hard all the time though

[calm aurora]

I prefer back tanking them

[livid raven]

yeah i agree with that

it's a glass cannon that has to avoid hits and can't afford to get hit often

which is what glass cannons are most often

[keen timber]

I don't think anyone is arguing scum is as tanky as arbite

but it's not some paper thin super squishy class

that's just simply not true

[bronze glade]

yhea

[livid raven]

i mean it's the squishiest class

[final temple]

yeah. that’s fair. comparatively it is harder to play. but there is not much glass and a lot of cannon.

[bronze glade]

unless you build it that way

[crude dagger]

2HP is no good

[calm aurora]

yeah but the mobility makes up for it

[livid raven]

yes but that's still glass cannon

[calm aurora]

it's a slime cannon

[keen timber]

it's not glass though

[calm aurora]

squishy but slippery

[final temple]

a class with active defenses is not a glass cannon.

[crude dagger]

If a crusher can 1shot me with an overhead, that's glass

[livid raven]

uh yes it is

[bronze glade]

sorry but that's literally a build issue

[keen timber]

but we've just established that scum can tank it?

[livid raven]

in every single game a character that can avoid hits but goes down fast if he does get hit would be considered a fragile character that punishes mistakes

[upbeat gyro]

Hivescum is the cannon Hunter S Thompson's ashes were shot out from

[crude dagger]

So playing supoort is wrong?

Gotcha

[fast surge]

Man has never heard of an Evasion tank

[livid raven]

evasion tanks are exactly that

[bronze glade]

support builds are a meme anyway

this isn't overwatch honey

[keen timber]

support builds on scum are even more of a meme

[brittle sierra]

Fragile class that can make the most annoying enemy in the game basically non existent I don't think it fragile 💀

[keen timber]

that's literally just stim crate

[crude dagger]

That sort of talk would warn a block blud

[keen timber]

yeah scum gets to completely ignore gunners lol

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/buckle-up-hold-on-get-in-fear-and-loathing-in-las-vegas-gif-13669565

[keen timber]

but he's right.

[bronze glade]

don't hate the messenger, hate the game

[livid raven]

what even is a "support build"

[crude dagger]

I main veteran, support is what i know

[keen timber]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/494582048934068228/1091512996880187502/thanos-blocked-users-discord-gif.gif

[final temple]

a glass cannon is a concept with high offensive but low to no defensive potential.

scum has high defensive potential through failsafes and active defenses. it is comparatively challenging to play but calling it a glass cannon is misapplying the term.

evasion tanks are not glass cannons.

[keen timber]

lol what.

[livid raven]

just because you spam a button every 40 seconds or so to shield the team, it doesn't make you a support build

[brittle sierra]

Isn't Vet a better melee class than Zealot?

[keen timber]

Psyker is!

[crude dagger]

Brother, every other node on vet supports

[brittle sierra]

Oh try forgot that creature

[keen timber]

Vet still likes shooting a bit too much to be full melee even on weap spec

[livid raven]

no, a glass cannon is a concept of a character that has high damage but goes down fast

there are glass cannons with high evasion

[keen timber]

it's vile. u pop scriers and u can sit there and just eat shit and u have so much toughness regen it's ikrrelevant

[livid raven]

eh not really

[final temple]

yeah. sorry. that’s just muddying the term.

[keen timber]

I feel like saying scum is one of the squishier classes is fine, calling them a glass cannon like they die after something looks at them funny is not

[brittle sierra]

I think the problem here is that you are using terms for a different game

In Darktide, we don't look at the toughness or HP of a character to determine if they are "weak" or not

[keen timber]

Scum is squisher sure, they are not glass.

[brittle sierra]

You shouldn't be getting hurt at all

[livid raven]

maybe they are not a glass cannon

[final temple]

I would agree with that distinction.

[livid raven]

maybe they are a glass cannon without the cannon

am i right

[crude dagger]

HS isn't weak, i mean they're a glass Canon they're meant to be strong for the best of players

But people can't play perfectly

[keen timber]

scum is really not that hard

[livid raven]

i dunno

i smash my head on m1 and keep firing and that seems to work out

[keen timber]

i mean when u take into account ur average player eats shit and dies in malice

forget perfectly most people can barely play the game at all

[livid raven]

also their poor bulk still works rather well in darktide since you can always get hit once with no repercussion

[brittle sierra]

Glass canon makes no sense either, because if I played devils advocate I can say having insane dodge and stamina Regen makes you unkillable

[final temple]

and I think THIS is the main issue. the same people struggle on vet and psyker just the same.

[main trellis]

It all comes down to one simple conclusion
Skill Issue

[bronze glade]

SCUM IS a GlAsS cannOn
proceeds to survive an auric crusher overhead with only one ONE toughness curio and 2x stam curio

[brittle sierra]

Toughness Regen is also insane on the class

[crude dagger]

Glass implies fragile, not agile

[livid raven]

i think you should ignore orcka and speak with the others instead

[keen timber]

they're not even that fragile though

[bronze glade]

@crude dagger this look fragile to you lol

[crude dagger]

Dang a block that negates damage, who would've thought

[keen timber]

mfw people on their way to run triple stamina curios and then wonder why they have less hp than other classes

[brittle sierra]

How are you "fragile"

Melee can't tough you, and gunners don't damage you

[bronze glade]

i can't tell if you're trolling or not at this point

[brittle sierra]

Vet and Psyker have the same exact HP as Scum

[bronze glade]

try blocking an auric crusher overhead on vet and see what happens

[crude dagger]

Vet has passive toughness gen and spyker can play keep away

[final temple]

and scum can’t ?

[brittle sierra]

Scum has passive toughness Regen too

[keen timber]

psyker can play keep away with infinite ranged ammo, scum cannot because apparently scum doesn't ALSO have infinite ammo?

[crude dagger]

It does?

[brittle sierra]

If you get shot, you just get free toughness

[keen timber]

Pickpocket is NOT real

[brittle sierra]

If you slap someone

You get toughness

[crude dagger]

Oh right, free toughness every 10s

Doesn't help when i get into sticky situations

[tranquil fjord]

adrenaline frenzy also gives you toughness regen

[keen timber]

scum has a ton of options yep

[brittle sierra]

It's the same with confirmed kill

[crude dagger]

I usually just abuse the stimms for free toughness

[keen timber]

...

aaaand everything you've said now makes sense.

[crude dagger]

I like drugs

[astral canyon]

Top left is the worst branch

[keen timber]

I build like shit and wonder why my character is weak

[brittle sierra]

Toughness stimms are probably by far the the worst stimms

[astral canyon]

Not probably

[crude dagger]

No not that

[keen timber]

they are by far and away

[astral canyon]

Straight up the worst

[crude dagger]

The 50% toughness on stimm use

[keen timber]

yes that's shit.

[astral canyon]

Again

[brittle sierra]

Yeah that's nothing

[final temple]

it just doesn’t qualify as a glass cannon. You could make a better case for calling it an evasion tank, although of course it has no tank qualities either.

maybe we just don’t missapply terms and private definitions.

[astral canyon]

Worst branch

[keen timber]

maybe use the non shit survivability tools and u wont struggle as much

[astral canyon]

It really needs some big buffs to be even worth using

[crude dagger]

But I'm taking drugs like every 20 seconds

[keen timber]

50% toughjness every 20 seconds

can u not see the issue?

[final temple]

as you should. single-handedly keeping the drug economy rolling.

[crude dagger]

No, Cathay i gave medipack to

I can just drop the medipack between the stimm

More drugs

[keen timber]

yeah all ur issues with the class

are starting to make sense

[crude dagger]

I'm building for drugs and fun

[astral canyon]

It doesnt work like that

[keen timber]

ur then complaining about the class being weak

or squishy

U cant go "man this class is so squishy"

[leaden fable]

I prefer to take my drugs before I even launch darktide

[crude dagger]

I'm not complsining

[keen timber]

then when it comes out ur doing things wrong go

[livid raven]

oh man you are taking the upper left path

[keen timber]

"Well im building for fun"

[livid raven]

lmao

[crude dagger]

Ok if your j just going to lay into me like my mom I'm not interested in this convo

[bronze glade]

here you go 🙂

[keen timber]

lol

[keen timber]

LOL

[crude dagger]

Jesus

[bronze glade]

and quite frankly

i'm not even running all the dr/tdr nodes

[astral canyon]

"Light work no reaction"

[bronze glade]

so this test could be more silly, if i wanted to bias myself

[leaden fable]

Running upper left tree for penances made me feel like scum was underperforming for sure

[bronze glade]

but i'm running just my normal rashad build

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/dew-it-galactic-republic-palpatine-gif-21847982

[bronze glade]

without modifications

[crude dagger]

I wish those attacks didn't eat both health and tough

[bronze glade]

too lazy

[livid raven]

that's because the top left path does nothing

[leaden fable]

Granted I was playing a shit build cobbled together to do as many penances as possible quickly

[keen timber]

all attacks do that, heavy hitting attacks just do more

[crude dagger]

Not weak ones

[leaden fable]

Iirc it depends on the attack, some won't hit hp if you are at full toughness

[livid raven]

weak ones only do health damage if you are not at 100% toughness

[astral canyon]

The only reason you should run top left is to do the penance for replenishing toughness

[keen timber]

oh yeah like that

[astral canyon]

Once that one is done you never run it again

[leaden fable]

Vs something like a sniper round that does it's full damage again to hp bar if it breaks toughness

[livid raven]

only attacks with spillover also do health damage

like sniper shots

[crude dagger]

My 50% toughness on stimm o thought was further down the talent tree

[livid raven]

what do you mean

[final temple]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-homer-disappears-bush-hiding-gif-3377649

[crude dagger]

It doesn't even matter anyway cause i was only ever referring to levels 1-5

[keen timber]

ok but

u have a ton of good talents there

[crude dagger]

I'm level 21 now, I'm fine

[livid raven]

at those levels the hivescum has basically the same bulk as any other classes

[leaden fable]

I think he's referring to chem fortified , something below the chem dep keystone and not stim tree

[livid raven]

except if you played at release

[keen timber]

yeah

[final temple]

precision violence by itself keeps you already going for quite a bit

[keen timber]

1-5 it's basically irrelevant

u have so few talents

and scum DOES have a couple of toughness talents at that point

[livid raven]

oh chem fortified

it's so hard to remember it does actually recharge 50% of your toughness

[leaden fable]

Yeah I never run chem dependency, I totally forgot

[livid raven]

even if you do, you don't take that node for the 50% toughness

[final temple]

obligatory ‘chem dep is the best keystone’ meme

[astral canyon]

chem fortified is top left path but actually good

[livid raven]

yeah it's kinda crazy that the top left path actually exists

they even gave it a shit capstone for some reason

[astral canyon]

i dont think its crazy that a defensive path exists

i think its crazy that it exists in its current state

[livid raven]

like, the capstone does less than the four nodes before it

can't wrap my head around that

[astral canyon]

it needs some huge buffs to be worth using

[crude dagger]

I honestly just run all the evssive stuff. Three immunity to melee while sliding and all that

[astral canyon]

like making the toughness regen not be just coherency toughness and increasing the amount of dr it gives

[livid raven]

that is fine, i don't take nimble usually because i just can't afford it

[crude dagger]

I don't play aggressive at all, i just putput the damage then the psyker can steal my kills anyway

[livid raven]

i have to wonder why you are even playing hivescum and not veteran or some other cowardly class in that case

[crude dagger]

Needle gun

Only reason i play the way i do

Only reason it's possible in the first place

[livid raven]

questionable!

[crude dagger]

Besides, none of yall know what my tree looks like

[upbeat gyro]

For casual player, its easy to get impression Hivescum is glass cannony. Thats how my IRC buddy told about when i asked how it is, told to expect lots of downs and struggling surviving

[final temple]

I am afraid to ask.

[upbeat gyro]

For someone who has mastered the game, the mobility makes it ultimate kiter that never gets hit, but that assumes you already have game mastery as starting point

[livid raven]

i mean you could just post it

maybe you are doing something that is killing the potential of the class

[crude dagger]

Heres part of it

[tranquil fjord]

i wish there would be more of a basic tutorial for this

[final temple]

you don’t need to ‘master the game’. just literally apply what the tutorial tells you.

[crude dagger]

I broke it

[livid raven]

i suggest you get on gameslantern if you want to post the full image, easier that way

[tranquil fjord]

actually, what even is in those tutorials

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah im sure everyone who plays tutorial instantly knows every enemy and situation and perfectly evades and blocks in every situation afterwards

[livid raven]

blessed stims is pretty useless

especially since you got the crate

[crude dagger]

I forgot what it does

[livid raven]

wait i am blind

that's jittery

[final temple]

absolutely not the point. scum expects you to block and dodge and slide. that is where it’s active defenses trigger.

every other class would struggle if you don’t block, don’t dodge or never slide.

[livid raven]

that's the least important part of the tree tho

[bronze glade]

alr i think i got all the sources of DR/TDR for this one

• Time Out
• Rampage
• 4 stacks of chem dep
• HIV brawler
• stimm

did i miss anything?

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah okay, im just telling what the general consensus of more casual players is

[livid raven]

you should really make your build on gameslantern

[crude dagger]

I'm said casual player

[livid raven]

at least the talent tree

[final temple]

sure. but I think it’s not unreasonable to expect even the most casual player to have realized that there IS a tutorial, given that it’s forced onto you on a fresh account.

[coarse creek]

I think the main skills that tutorial need to teach on top of whatever they have atm are pushing some kind of practical on bursters+dogs, and how to disengage from horde trash

[upbeat gyro]

I just returned after almost 2 year break, so i had pseudo beginner experience all over again atleast for few games. Kept shooting barrels and all

[crude dagger]

The tutorial is very poor

[muted pivot]

Hive Scum is gun Psyker+

[livid raven]

the tutorial is pure ass

[muted pivot]

Same feast or famine gameplay

[bronze glade]

bistol desperado = traumaker
DB desperado = purge psyker
DAP/brauto/SAP/Vraks desperado = gunker
it all checks out
they played us for fools
HIV is just hoodpsyker

[livid raven]

and even if it was good, it wouldn't make you good instantly

[final temple]

it conveys the basics. precisely the basics scum heavily relies on.

[upbeat gyro]

Tutorial that tells you briefly what evade is doesnt equal mastery of that instantly

[livid raven]

does it even talk about slidedodge

[crude dagger]

Crazy that i know how to use said basics

[livid raven]

believe me, you don't want to put your point into the tutorial

[final temple]

then everything else is game knowledge and experience that you get by playing the game. I really don’t think this is an unreasonable position. nobody expects perfection.

[livid raven]

i do actually

[coarse creek]

i watched at least somewhat experienced ppl with 250 auric frames and stuff die to horde trash first day when everyone started hive scum at level1

lots of ppl out there carried by gold toughness, good weps, instant delete all threatening stuff and ez toughness regen

[keen timber]

this is not a simple game though

[upbeat gyro]

I actually let two complete beginners try Darktide in past month

[livid raven]

i knew i was fucked at release when my teams were all orange titles

[upbeat gyro]

Both played tutorial, then went into game, and forgot most of it and it was just mostly WASD and l-click into enemies

[coarse creek]

unless i tell newbies not to they make vet first and then shoot stuff until heresy instead of ever meleeing

then heresy is a bit of a struggle lol

[keen timber]

yeah that's a huge thing

lower difficulty is super easy to just shoot through

[crude dagger]

No shit,i have 4 classes at level 30 and i run auric difficulties on them. I'm not stupid

[keen timber]

I'll not respond to that.

[final temple]

We all started like that. the game quite obviously does not expect you to have mastered the basics or any advanced mechanics after the tutorial. but it also doesn’t hold your hand.

[upbeat gyro]

The other person does not play any first person shooters or use even keyboard, so biggest obstacle was actually finding where WASD are

[livid raven]

is this other person a grandma

[coarse creek]

the main thing i think newbie players with like 5-10 hours really struggle with in practice that they don't get told in any way is how to break off fighting a stream of horde trash and catch up

[livid raven]

doesn't your phone keyboard share the same layout actually

[crude dagger]

Just cause i make some fuckass funny drug build doesn't mean i don't know how to play the game

[upbeat gyro]

You dont build "muscle memory" for WASD until you play some fast paced games using em

We PC players take such for granted

[coarse creek]

some kind of practice for special sound cues would be nice. my newbie friends get overwhelmed by all the stuff that goes on and can't distinctly separate:

• dodge sound/visual cues for specials
• the shot in the back sound cue
• the hit in the back sound cue

[upbeat gyro]

Wolfenstein 3D and Doom used arrow keys, but Quake already was WASD with mouse

https://tenor.com/view/elrond-lotr-lord-of-the-tings-lord-elrond-3000years-gif-13229890

[livid raven]

ehrm

[crude dagger]

Even with like 150 hours i still don't understand the backshots cue cause it doesn't even play

[livid raven]

old

both the shot/melee clues are similar so i just dodge

[crude dagger]

Had a sniper shoot me in the back last night cause it didn't play its cue

[livid raven]

the game does suffer from poor uhh

[amber sundial]

wait getting shot / meleed have different sound cues for the back?

i thought there wasnt a difference

[livid raven]

from audios not playing

[coarse creek]

my friends immediately dragged me into auric almost immediately when i started so i didn't realize what the back hit cue was for ages because it was constantly playing and i was always in survival mode

[livid raven]

for snipers, the shot has to be directed at you in the first place to play irrc

[zenith fern]

this game has some great audio mixing
when it is not shitting itself

[crude dagger]

I refuse to turn off the music

[coarse creek]

also great for silent trappers lol

[livid raven]

also i think snipers can aim and almost be ready to shoot a target, but if that target takes cover, they go to another person (and shoot immediately) and that also can not play a sound

[livid raven]

always funny when this happens

[final temple]

I mean, I am sure the game has stellar audio, but I just cant help but keep screetching from the top of my lungs while playing.

[livid raven]

btw i remember there was a modifier that was like

low intensity?

when was it removed

[coarse creek]

when they redid auric as its own difficulty i think

[final temple]

I think with the auric rework?

[crude dagger]

Kow intensity was dumb anyway

[livid raven]

crazy

yeah it was pretty strange

[coarse creek]

it used to annoy my friends when we used to queue std difficult because nobody wanted to play low intensity but everyone still wanted to qp lol

[crude dagger]

Like if your not prepared for the next difficulty, don't do it

[coarse creek]

best comedy in the game is when you dodge an overhead/net/snipe/etc and it hits your friend who's stealth rezzing

[final temple]

I leveled my launch psyker in low int heresy

[crude dagger]

Me when i dodge the stealth teapper and it hits be anyway cause it shot instantly

Stealth dogs are worse

[coarse creek]

me when i'm not sure if it's a matrioshka trapper or if i somehow triggered that bug where they skip their reload sometimes

when they get staggered in some weird unreproducible way or something (iirc)

[crude dagger]

Me when i dude dodge the overhead crusher blow but it hits my anyway

[coarse creek]

the worst dog is the one that pounce and push the burster you just pushed right back into you

[crude dagger]

Bursters blow in heresey dif

Your randos area competent enough, but can't handle a burster at all

Its really bad on the mobien steel foundary level in that very first section

That area was so bad during the high explosives event

[livid raven]

i saw someone push down a burster (it didn't explode) and then got close and smashed it with his melee weapon in aurics

[muted pivot]

Sounds like me lmao

[crude dagger]

I still don't know how people can push that thing and avoid its aoe

[livid raven]

you just push