hivescum-class

[spark gyro]

I do wish I could filter only for HI, but I can see why that could create some quickplay problems

But then, we got a campaign filter, so fuck it

[mighty belfry]

Now if I could just stop getting blight so I'm not forced to use stimm crate :^]

[tropic crag]

when the 6th tox flamer conga lines in

[spark gyro]

"Emperor, we just moved FIVE feet the past minute"

[mighty belfry]

Honesty I prefer rotten over blight at this point.

[spark gyro]

My quickplay filters include uhhh

Waiting until a group shows up and HI only

[mighty belfry]

At least with rotten, you can still play the game like you're supposed to.

[low harbor]

It’s all RNG

[spark gyro]

I don't like waiting for the quickplay timer, only to get dropped alone into a mission I don't like

If I wanted to create a lobby, I would just do that with something I really want to play

[pulsar aspen]

May i recommend Auric Maelstrom then? You'll always know what mission you sign up for in terms of modifiers.

[tropic crag]

yeah rotten armor is kind of fun for me in a vacuum because it mostly just leads to alot more fighting... but it can be bad when mixed with things

[spark gyro]

I try it, but sometimes it's just empty

[low harbor]

Stim crate is fun

I enjoyed it the most in grinding the 100 mission penance

[mighty belfry]

Stimm crate is fun but I used it so much when I first started this class.

[tropic crag]

most lobbies fill in before the load screen is done tbh

[low harbor]

I just rampage rashad’d early on

[tropic crag]

at least in my regions

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[mighty belfry]

And now that I actually know how to take advantage of rampage, I want to use that more

[cedar cairn]

Ime basically no one tags
Not even the Arbites players

[low harbor]

No brain activity

Just w + m1

[spark gyro]

Bulwark mechanics:
Bulwark mechanics, clipping rager:

Sometimes crusher packs are stressful too because I'm trying to keep an eye out for a hammer popping above the shapeless mass of carapace

[tropic crag]

i just assume there is always a hammer lol

[manic wolf]

The worst bum-twitchy moment is a trapper being behind a 16 deep Crusher mob

[spark gyro]

"Please don't overhead me from a blind spot, please don't overhead me from a blind spot"

[tropic crag]

i still get hit by hammers when assuming there is always a hammer lol

[orchid timber]

oh boy disconnecting from my own havoc and not being able to reconnect is so nice

[cedar cairn]

I however tag every dog and burster and trapper and Crusher I see to help my teammates coordinate and also cause I can't see shit

[tropic crag]

opposite of that is when you go "oh i'm dead" because you know you can't dodge the net only for some hero to cc the whole group before you get got

[spark gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/war-flashback-meme-gif-11373632052098267276

[spark gyro]

Me turning into a terminator the moment a red exclamation mark shows up on my screen

[tropic crag]

i tag elites more than anything so i can track their animations easier, but i tag far specials for easy sniping also

[spark gyro]

I'm as reckless attacking everything I see, as I am defending everything I see

[tropic crag]

i tag dogs or muties if they rush by me and i'm too engaged to take care of them

[spark gyro]

Like a rabid dog triggered by the red colour

A death machine that runs on unbridled desire to engage in glorious melee combat

A true atoman gladiator

[tropic crag]

being bonk brain is nice

you just brawl and have fun lol

[spark gyro]

All must die so that all must live

Such is the code.

[upbeat gyro]

This is so ass

[sand tendon]

esp if you know a bulwark wave is coming it's nice to know when a crusher/mauler behind them is about to poke through with a sliding overhead

[upbeat gyro]

Like i have to take some hits to get it

And went even down just because of that

[tropic crag]

it happened in a few games for me, your team counts as well if you use box

[spark gyro]

I got that one because the first thing I did with the stimm was make it a toughness heal

[upbeat gyro]

I got told team doesnt count

[spark gyro]

Being a coward has its perks

[upbeat gyro]

I would otherwise do that way

[tropic crag]

oh i thought team did count

because it happened super fast for me

like i think 4 or 5 games? maybe a bit more

but i don't remember that many games running the toughness box

[spark gyro]

Enemy breaking my arbites toughness and watching me pop castigator is like finding out the boss has a second phase

[tropic crag]

the rejects in general are scary, like they aren't gonna be able to go toe to toe with the actual big guys in the 40k universe... but man are they strong enough they can go their whole lives without bumping into someone who can kick their teeth in by the time they reach the end of the current story

[final temple]

to be fair, the rejects are kept artificially low.

there is a bunch of shit they could abuse if they got their hands on it and being in an inquisitor’s retinue means they could likely get away with it.

[tropic crag]

i almost think keeping them lower equipped like that helps them more? i feel like the success of the project is a bit of a "trial by fire" system

because who knows how many died off screen to get the canon auric group

[final temple]

I meant more in a doylist sense than watsonian.

[tropic crag]

i get you, and yeah you're right in that sense

on a semi related note i wonder how much of the inquisitors resources are directly tied up in keeping his dumbass alive?

its like we're in a mini imperium with a guy on a steel throne

[final temple]

I don’t even fully grasp WHAT keeps him alive. it ain’t stasis. and he isn’t an abominable intelligence I suppose

[tropic crag]

i think he's an "i'm not touching you" version of abom intelligence thats skirting some rules

[final temple]

guess somewhere in the bowels of the ship is am amiotic tank with his shriveled balls or sth

[tropic crag]

lol maybe

[final temple]

like some kind of treatment similar to some titanicus princeps

[tropic crag]

i mean... maybe... we don't know how bound he is to the ship atm... like we know he's drawing power at least

[final temple]

My impression is that he IS interred in the ship cause Brahm’s mum had to put up with him already and both refer to the Mourningstar as some family curse yet also their prize

it also seems like Brahms and he are related iirc

[tropic crag]

yeah, i feel bad for Brahms... she's a caged badass atm lol

yeah

[final temple]

I haven’t played much mortis after the new voicelines got added. gotta grind em out

[tropic crag]

Its one of the more entangled rogue trader/inquisitor relationships i have seen or can think of but i'm probably forgetting something

the new voicelines are good in mortis, i'm actually digging the quiet slow story happening in the backround now adays

[calm aurora]

who?

[final temple]

Grendyl

[calm aurora]

what

[final temple]

our inquisitor

[calm aurora]

man i need to play mortis again

[tropic crag]

mortis is fun as an aside sometimes, critsplosion builds make me smile everytime

[final temple]

yeah. the big names on our side all get quite a lot of backstory through mortis trials

[orchid timber]

ok well i guess today is not the day to play havoc because starlink just keeps shitting the bed

[tropic crag]

those mixed with the new campaign voice overs have helped alot with me getting into the story

[final temple]

same

[low harbor]

DT’s story basically didn’t progress forward for 2025

[tropic crag]

yeah, they were busy fixing things

[low harbor]

All the story drops added were background stuff that alrdy happened

[near mauve]

we fought the bad guys in no man's land!

[tropic crag]

i do love the new tank commander guy in the side story

[near mauve]

insane deve lop ment

[tropic crag]

hes exactly how i would imagine a leman russ tank commander

just an absolute jackass with a giant cannon

[final temple]

crazy?

[low harbor]

There’s 1 Easter egg in that mission about genestealers

But that’s about it

[tropic crag]

the genestealer stuff is just 40k references and not like... actual darktide story

we're not living out the dark crusade here

[final temple]

I wouldn’t mind fighting some stealers tho

[low harbor]

It’s most likely just an Easter egg

But this one is pretty on the nose

[near mauve]

i keep hoping for jean stealers after watching the interview where the director said he'd like another faction

[low harbor]

It shows u flat out the genestealer logo

[tropic crag]

honestly i think it was put in there because people keep talking about the genestealers lol

[low harbor]

Prob

[tropic crag]

i figured another faction just means another nurgle faction, like we already have 2 nurgle factions

[near mauve]

next dork updates should be
FIX SERVERS
fix performance
migrate engine

then new content

[low harbor]

Yea ur getting khorne ragers

[final temple]

FS. give me stealer dlc or give me death!

[tropic crag]

migrate engine to what?

[near mauve]

me when

[near mauve]

to anything that isnt absolute dogshit

[low harbor]

There’s no engine migration with DT

[near mauve]

its ovah

[low harbor]

It’s built on a discontinued engine

[tropic crag]

honestly i think any other engine would ruin the feel of the game

[near mauve]

yeah it would ruin those frame drops

[low harbor]

As for performance

[final temple]

it may be jank but it is OUR jank.

[tropic crag]

its def modified in house, same with the HD2 engine, they're both different from eachother at this point

[low harbor]

Game unironically runs better on Linux

[near mauve]

i heard

[low harbor]

More stable 1% lows

However proton has its issues

[tropic crag]

lol i play most games locked at 30fps so i've never had a frame drop in DT since the beta

[near mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/northernlion-six-seven-67-unc-still-got-it-bald-streamer-67-gif-17498384913797201136

[upbeat gyro]

I upgraded 16gb to 32gb RAM recently and ive only since had twice "out of memory" error with Darktide

[low harbor]

As for new content I think weapons and maps are more important than class atm

& make older weapons better

Most weapons still pretty meh

[tropic crag]

its probably a setting that causes it tbh unless its like an amd problem or something

for the out of memory i mean

[low harbor]

This game is more CPU bound than GPU bound most of the time

Even tho it is heavy on GPU

[livid raven]

it doesn't really matter, the game isn't running out of ram

[upbeat gyro]

Cant be AMD because im on Intel + Nvidia

[tropic crag]

honestly thats alot of gaming today, when i got my current pc i skimped on the gpu but not the cpu because of this

[tropic crag]

same and i can keep the game on for 8+ hours while playing the odd game every hour or two and never use any extra memory or crash

[upbeat gyro]

My i5 12600k is usually chilling at like 20%-40% when gaming, GPU at 99%

[tropic crag]

so i think its a setting people have on that i don't

[near mauve]

agreed

we have enough classes

and there's enough builds

[upbeat gyro]

Sisters of Battle though?

[tropic crag]

we'll continue to get both, the classes will be what mostly funds the other 2 things tbh

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/rich-king-crown-money-cash-gif-17571826

[near mauve]

there's at LEAST 3 really good builds per class
That's 15 different builds!

wait no do we have 5 or 6 classes

[upbeat gyro]

Only DDR4 and used, so wasnt that bad

[near mauve]

zealot vet psyker ogryn arb scum

[tropic crag]

4+2=5

[near mauve]

zayum

[low harbor]

Nah

[low harbor]

This is not accurate, arb has only 2

[leaden fable]

Do you have the lua heap option added to your steam launcher?

[upbeat gyro]

Nope? Do tell more

[leaden fable]

Try adding to steam launch options: --lua-heap-mb-size 2048

[near mauve]

dog with eo, dog without eo, dogless with eo, dogless without eo
checkmate liberal

[calm aurora]

I have 32 gb of very good ddr5, and I still have out of memory crash

mods and the memory leak are to blame

[low harbor]

That 20-40% is across all cores while the game mostly uses the first 3 cores, the overall CPU utilization stat is not very conclusive

[low harbor]

Dog EO
LW forceful

That’s it

Only 1 ult as well

[calm aurora]

as long as you play at 1440 or above you're good

[tropic crag]

i still think people should try toggling lighting and shadow settings to see if it stops that, i tend to toggle some of those down when i don't need to so its probably something like that

[near mauve]

you're counting it from meta perspective

im counting playable stuff

there's a lot of playable stuff if people dont hyperminmax

[tropic crag]

yeah in terms of playablity all classes have ALOT of options, even alot of meme builds are havoc ready tbh

[calm aurora]

bro I have a 7800 x3d and a 9070 xt... turning down stuff is painful

but here we are...

I even had to modify some ini files...

[tropic crag]

i've pc gamed for like... 33 years now, never go in expecting to max settings, just be surprised when you can, because even if you can, next time you might not be able to

and never buy top shelf if it came out that year

thats the other advice

because it'll never work to its full potential

[upbeat gyro]

Added

[calm aurora]

I loled when I saw Darktide as a tech partner for one the one of the new tech coming with AMD redstone

[livid raven]

self-ownage tbh

[calm aurora]

I play with FSR / Optiscaler when I can tbh and well, I have been gaming for 25 years on PC on mostly low to mid range pc

I splurged because there was a short time window before ram prices went insane and just after the gpu draught

[tropic crag]

honestly its probably streaming for a few years that messed me up, i got used to playing games in weird small windows with weird settings and just never stopped even when i got better pcs

like when i start up a game i put it in a window smaller than my monitor and lock the frames down lol

just as a default action

[final temple]

can’t be assed to build another PC. have done that for 25 years and it’s just not worth it anymore for me, so I am a console peasant. and couldn’t be happier lol

[calm aurora]

also, fiscal reason, considering I could do a write off

[tropic crag]

consoles are too expensive man, honestly some prebuilds are ok... some are just as bad as ever

like if you know how to check a prebuild you can get some good ones

like if you know how to double check their work when you get it

[final temple]

nah. If I build a PC it has to be custom. last built cost me like 8k including all the open loop parts. It’s as much a hobby as gaming itself.

[tropic crag]

i still cant justify anything more than air cooling for gaming, not with how good air coolers have gotten over the years

[calm aurora]

water cooling is such a rabbit hole

[calm aurora]

well you can get very good AIO like arctic cooler for less than 80 euros

[final temple]

Being able to run on full throttle while being virtually silent is such a flex I wouldn’t want to miss. but it’s also the tinkering I just cannot be added to care about anymore.

[tropic crag]

like even cheap coolermaster air coolers can be really good now adays

[signal nebula]

Just don't get water cooling

You don't need it

[tropic crag]

yeah man but cheap coolermaster

[signal nebula]

Short of living in Arizona

[calm aurora]

my 240 pro cost like 65 euros

[calm aurora]

thermalright is kinda insane tbh

[calm aurora]

I live in Rome, Italy

and I live in a subtropical island before

[tropic crag]

honestly i live in a place that gets desert temps sometimes (also deep freezing temps sometimes) and you don't even need it then... air coolers work great in dry places tbh

[spiral widget]

Whats the hivescum playstyle compared to other classes before I buy them?

[calm aurora]

it makes me so damn angy when I see benchmarks from fucking canadian or american youtubers about aio with an average of 21c inside

[upbeat gyro]

You avoid damage by being fast and dodging a lot, also you can spam 99% ranged if you go that part of the tree

[spiral widget]

How viable is the rocket

[tropic crag]

they basically take every weapon and make it faster and hit harder at the expense of being punished a bit more... while leveling up its going to feel worse because they are very dependant on alot of the nodes at the bottom of the tree. You can go melee and rip and tear better than most or go full ranged and gun better than most

[upbeat gyro]

Ask the pack of crushers it just deleted for their opinion

[calm aurora]

like, it's too fucking cold even for office temp, and not everyone has access to air con

[tropic crag]

its very good, the only downside being the limited shots but like... its very good even with that "downside"

[spiral widget]

Alright thanks guys

[candid flint]

the most powerful blitz in the game atm

so not viable

[signal nebula]

There ya go

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/team-rocket-pokemon-fly-sky-anime-gif-16659565

[tropic crag]

honestly when an air cooler starts struggling so will water cooling because they both rely on fans and radiators at the end of the day

[calm aurora]

like I said, most of the benchmarks done are just theoretical wanking and not applicable outside of office rooms with air con controlled temp

[tropic crag]

yeah sorry i was trying to agree with what you said but i say things dumb sometimes

[calm aurora]

I do think you have more leeway with watercooling

[tropic crag]

yeah a bit, mostly because of the distance created

[calm aurora]

but that's based on reading about users in tropical / hot climates

[tropic crag]

i think it would be soley because you have less heat pooling around the thing making the heat tbh

so you gain a bit there but its only going to be some

but yeah if cheap air coolers werent so... functional atm i would have looked into water cooling but at this point since i'm not doing anything crazy with my cpu i think i'm air cooling till i'm force off it somehow

[upbeat gyro]

With Rashad should i spam Push Attack on hordes bigger than Brutal Momentum can deal with?

1.5 cleave on light vs 8 on Push ATK

[tropic crag]

the few times i've used it i thought i mostly used lights with push attacks mixed in but its been a bit so i could be remembering wrong

[bronze glade]

Doesn’t really matter but you can throw in a push or two if it gets overwhelming

PA is mostly for ragers

[calm aurora]

you should not pa with rashad unless you want some breathing room from ragers

if you want world class push attack game, use a taxe

[upbeat gyro]

Okay thanks, been wondering if adding even one cleave talent would be beneficial to clear faster, someone here today said they tested in psykhanium and it helped

[tropic crag]

or you want to make sure you can move with a dodge so you throw out a preemtive shove

[low harbor]

Yea arb rly has just 2 major build paths

Same goes for vet tbh

Ogryn has 2 as well and 1 of them is horrible

[tropic crag]

you can run all three actives just fine and all 3 keystones... almost mix and match except for lucky bullet

oggy is scum like in how "choose your own adventure" it is

[near mauve]

nah gungryn is no where near as well made as the melee parts tbh

[low harbor]

Yea I said 1 of them is horrible

[near mauve]

but arb feels like u mash your head into a keyboard and make a build that works

[tropic crag]

i think thats just the nature of gun builds in this game, they are all worse made because gun builds are just less interesting to make in games like this

a "good" gun build tends to become non interactive or fails to live up to the dream of using mostly gun

[near mauve]

u can make a gun vet work way better

hell i can perma shoot on scum too

[tropic crag]

you can basically perma shoot on oggy too tbh

unless your team doesn't have ammo regen somehow lol

[near mauve]

if u vaccum all the ammo

[tropic crag]

not even tbh, just shoot the things you should shoot and melee trash that is a waste of your ammo tbh

because oggy can do that better than the other classes without melee support built into their build

its what i meant by "fails to live up to the dream of using mostly gun"

because honestly if they did make it so ogryn can shoot all game then people would start getting mad at all the meta chasers playing gungryn

[low harbor]

Gun ogryn is pretty far from meta

Rumbler op then everything else is at least 1 tier below their human weapon counterpart

[livid raven]

when i asked in ogryn chat for a fun gunlugger build and they recommended ripper

never again

[sonic pumice]

You are struggling to make use of the ripper? Or is that bullet based lugger builds are not cutting it for you? You can always default to using rumbler builds if you want

[livid raven]

ripper sucked ass

[sonic pumice]

Ripper in most cases is a stagger sidearm of fast swap speed that can be used as toughness battery or to cc/supress a swarm when you are advancing

As lugger the Mk6 wants a lot of crit and headshots to make high damage

[livid raven]

they also pointed me to a build

[sonic pumice]

Would be useful to know if you tested all ogryn ranged weapons and found any that felt fun for you (I enjoyed a lot my charge snipegryn, but that's not only not meta, it's quite troublesome to pilot if you are not in the right mentality)

[livid raven]

they all kinda sucked and feel worse than any human gun's counterpart, but the rumbler, the kickback and the grenade launcher were ok

i've stopped trying gunlugger in any case, i really dislike it

[sonic pumice]

Kickback is more often a sidearm first and most, good stagger that eve crushers can resist and can 2shot most enemies regardless of range.
Rumbler is THE most meta weapon of ogryn for a reason so that makes lots of sense and the GG has a similar role with less air but faster handling

[livid raven]

i just use melee

[vapid jungle]

Ripper is dogshit.

[livid raven]

i believe you

[sonic pumice]

You take that back

[vapid jungle]

I can't its already out there

[sonic pumice]

Can't blame you, the skill and keystone of gunlugging is not that great at supporting most weapons the ogryn have, and he trade a lot of utility on charge/taunt as well as lots of impact to try make that work, but only rumbler does something worth mentioning, and for the wrong reasons sadly

[bronze glade]

Ur dogshit

Checkmate liberal

[zenith fern]

The ragebait will not work on me smh

[vapid jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/feels-bad-man-frog-cry-gif-15240312

[sonic pumice]

If you don't believe in the Ripper then what you can believe? Nothing

[low harbor]

Gun ogryn trades away everything that makes ogryn good (melee, frontlining) to do smth he’s not meant for

[zenith fern]

If you can't rip you can't tear

[vapid jungle]

Kickback and grenade gauntlet are ketchup factories

[low harbor]

It’s the entire branch having issues + most of Og’s guns are not good enough

[sonic pumice]

That's why the best path is doing hybrid, so you can snipe good but still can get in mele like real Ogryns (that perk should still give you some impact and other boost for melee, you are not meant to be behind the team all time)

[low harbor]

Hybrid effectively doesn’t exist

The right branch doesn’t support it

[sonic pumice]

I rest my case your honour

[vapid jungle]

Not only are ranged options not cutting it the variety is so lacking

[sonic pumice]

Let us bully ObeseFish

They must give ogryn bigger guns as compensation

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah they need to combine talents to make it cheaper

[low harbor]

Any good og build atm is almost exclusively left & middle

[zenith pagoda]

And just remove the rending and reload nodes

[sonic pumice]

Replace the reload for ranged damage and make the reload on empty clip 25% and it would be BARELY a start

[tropic crag]

not going to lie if they buffed gungryn oggy players would be super upset because there would be so many meta chasers flocking to the class suddenly lol

[zenith pagoda]

Just combine the reload after hitting multiple enemies and reload on empty

Gauntlet isn't even that good, the reason it's used so much is because it requires no investment to do it's job

[tropic crag]

rumblers the better zero investment weapon for my money tbh

[low harbor]

No, og meta would still be melee frontliner

[tropic crag]

can't beat that instant cc

[low harbor]

That’s just what the class’s core function is

[sonic pumice]

Most good guns on ogryn work as sidearms for melee, so that makes a fair amount of sense

[tropic crag]

same with scum, and yet here we are

[zenith pagoda]

Nah rumbler has a lot of talents that buffs it a lot, you can not use them but you're missing out on a lot of dmg

[livid raven]

if they buffed gunslugger for better ammo economy, everyone would be happier

[eager reef]

class function is hit stuff, so much so gun alts are just ht stuff but different

[low harbor]

What

[livid raven]

since all gunslugger players do is gobble up ammo

[tropic crag]

yeah you use it for the cc, if you're using it as a sidearm the 23 blitzes in your pocket is pretty strong

[vapid jungle]

That guy says anything sometimes.

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah I said earlier they should make PBB replenish all spent ammo into reserve

[sonic pumice]

Imo the also should make some guns not hit like confetti ammo *stares at Twin stubber for it's sins

[low harbor]

I can tell

[spiral horizon]

yeah like the big problem with glugger is it straight up glugs all the ammo on the map

[tropic crag]

meta scum is melee but you still had a bunch of people flock to it for the ranged option and scum players have complained about it

[spiral horizon]

ranged weapon performance notwithstanding, the ammo economy negatively affects the team experience directly

[low harbor]

They never designed hvs specifically as a melee focus class

[eager reef]

funny enough pickpocket while using DB has had a positive tick in my experience playing with a buddy who loves to play glugger

[low harbor]

Ur arguing nothing rn

[tropic crag]

they didn't with ogryn either, or any class. the og classes were 1/3 of the classes and now we have them all

[spiral horizon]

also tbf meta scum rn is just needle pistol+pickpocket

[mighty belfry]

I don't even think melee scum is meta lol

[low harbor]

Ogryn was specifically the melee frontline tank and he still is

[tropic crag]

so was scum with the rampage builds

[low harbor]

Again you’re really saying a lot of nothing rn

Hvs was never made specifically just for rampage melee

[sonic pumice]

What you think of making the pickpocket perk part of each keystone? So for middle one you reload ammo by killing in melee or you regain ammo on stun used with the chem dependency. Would that be good or bad for the class?

[eager reef]

imo scum has the best balance between all 3 nodes as none of them feel liek throwing

[low harbor]

Left keystone subnode with lengthy cooldown & melee-only activation condition

Is what I’d do

[mighty belfry]

Pickpocket should exclusively be for ranged sidd.

[sonic pumice]

So only for desperado as a sub node?

[mighty belfry]

I don't like that it's available for literally any build.

[karmic summit]

Rampage tactical axe is my favorite way to play this game I'm in love

[mighty belfry]

Yes.

[vapid jungle]

Bad for the game

[sonic pumice]

Ye it's the reason why needle is so overturned

[low harbor]

Desperado already gives u infinite ammo while it’s active

[mighty belfry]

I had someone question why i had hypercrit and not pickpocket on a melee scum build in a havoc party yesterday

[livid raven]

some people like to run pickpocket on melee builds too

for sneedler

[mighty belfry]

The fact that people feel the need to scrutinize your build because it doesn't have one node that might not even get use out of the build you're running because its just overpowered is a serious problem.

[vapid jungle]

Pickpocket is the strongest node on HS

[eager reef]

my favorite is being asked where the 3rd shot is in my DB

[vapid jungle]

Regardless of build

[sonic pumice]

Which is bs anf yet feels part of the class Which is annoying

[dire badge]

Hypercrit overlaps with hyper violence lessening its value a bit

Pickpocket is literally infinite ammo so it's extremely op. Especially with needler.

Ofc though play what you like, I do the same with backstabbing talent. Just if you ask for advice expect meta answers.

[dire badge]

That's just culture

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit does not do that like people first thought it did.

If you do enough damage to kill an enemy without hypercrit's condition, hypercrit doesn't proc.

And if you have overkill already available from hyperviolence, getting an instant kill from hypercrit won't override that.

Since it needs to be actual overkill that's dealt that also needs to be higher than the overkill amount you currently have from hyperviolence.

[sonic pumice]

But with the focus on high crit on the builds of the class, finding scenarios where hypercritical trigger all time and doesn't let HViolence trigger consistently true? Because the damage from HCritical would not let you trigger HViolence

[mighty belfry]

So in practicality, hypercrit doesn't actually interfere with hyperviolence like the descriptions would lead you to believe.

[mighty belfry]

Yes. But on a melee build, it is very rare that you're gonna do a crit that will actually fulfill hypercrits condition.

Since you do a ton of damage.

[eager reef]

me taking neither bc my insanty cant fit it into my bullshit build ideas

[low harbor]

If hypercrit is triggering all the time, u would have needed extra hits to kill the enemies with Hyperviolence most of the time

Because hypercrit is mainly for rager and mauler

[mighty belfry]

And in most cases, you'll get a hyperviolence proc that also feeds into hypercrit on cleaved enemies but when that hv resets, once you hit that first enemy, you'll just get the overkill again.

[sonic pumice]

[mighty belfry]

So while it technically has antisynergy, the antisynergy doesn't really happen in practical application.

[eager reef]

it's also why the meme of taking both with haymaker on shivs actually works

you have not lived till you instagib 2 maulers at once on a stab bc shives have two hit boxes

[calm aurora]

has the meta changed on hypercrit and hyperviolence?

I took a month break

[mighty belfry]

It has.

[leaden fable]

I run hv without hc and never struggle with ragers or maulers

[low harbor]

No (if u knew what was good)

Yes (if u didn’t understand what was good)

[eager reef]

yesnt if you cant read

[mighty belfry]

Hypercrit is good for stimm crate builds or when rampage is on downtime

Or having both hypercrit and hyperviolence more specifically.

[eager reef]

i would take hyper if i could afford it

[mighty belfry]

That being said, I stopped running it because I've been running flesh tearer on shivs lol

[eager reef]

i run tacaxe and dclaw alot, so it wouldnt be bad, but it's not a deal breaker to not have

[leaden fable]

Makes sense, that's when my build is at its weakest. I run cdr stim with that melee cdr upgrade and sample collector so rampage is almost always up, I think I wait 12 seconds at most

[calm aurora]

I don't remember

[eager reef]

i pray this node never changes

[calm aurora]

everybody and his mother had an opinion

[eager reef]

dclaw with 60 mobility and a +3 stamina curio gets 10 stacks of swift endurance

left click gaming

[low harbor]

TLDR run them together if u don’t have rampage active

[sonic pumice]

So rampage builds which one they want?

[low harbor]

If u have high rampage uptime, optionally skip hypercrit (but not really because it paths into pickpocket which is op)

So the end answer is take both

Across almost all builds

Ig if u play ranged hvs u can skip both?

[sonic pumice]

Even mostly desperado builds?

[low harbor]

But I don’t play ranged

Cringe build

[astral canyon]

Does hypercrit proc the adrenaline node that gives stacks on kill?

[low harbor]

Yes

[astral canyon]

Neat

I'll try it out so i can see if it helps deal with the sawrip bug

[main wagon]

This is part of the reason why I’ve started coping with no 17% toughness curio by just running two +3 stam instead

[sonic pumice]

I didn't saw many run the adrenaline keystone, how good it is and where it shines the most?

[main wagon]

I’ve given Melk so much money. I swear it took me like a week to get all the curios on my Arby

[astral canyon]

Its free damage and attack speed

[low harbor]

It’s the best keystone for hvs’s best melee weapon

[main wagon]

It stings that much more when I cycle characters to complete weeklies for melkbux and they just have a 17% toughness in their regular shop

Taunting my scum

[sonic pumice]

Shivs?

[astral canyon]

Rashad

[low harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-thumbnail-does-he-know-he-doesnt-know-gif-27552850

[sonic pumice]

Really? Cor

[sonic pumice]

Me ogryn mostly, me know only what Sah sais

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1453190093174214798/58966B1.MP4?ex=694c8c3d&is=694b3abd&hm=87b928e4571ffc7dce3ab7f7d82e35d46bf3db540b3053197b3c5e0df72512c4&

[astral canyon]

Me when i get you:

[low harbor]

It’s June 2025, the newest DT class has released, their best melee is Rashad and their best ranged is Vraks 5 IAG

It’s December 2025, the newest DT class has released, their best melee is Rashad and their best ranged is Vraks 5 IAG

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[brittle sierra]

I thought the best melee weapon on Arbi was the shock maul

[upbeat gyro]

I think i feel the lack of 3rd toughness curio, is the stam that needed on rashad melee hivescum?

[sonic pumice]

I blame other guns not being as cool as Vraks and other melees not being as cool as rashad

[upbeat gyro]

Is stam something you slap on for QoL once you are good enough to avoid most damage?

[low harbor]

It’s 6% atk speed

But stamina is generally good for human classes (sprint, block & push)

It’s like

The VT2 block efficiency equivalent in this game

[sonic pumice]

Isn't 2stamina curios too much? Why is so goated?

[low harbor]

I recommend 1 health curio for vet, psyker and hvs

[upbeat gyro]

168 vs 194 with 3rd toughness curio or not

[low harbor]

Are u sure this is due to lack of toughness, not ur ability to replenish toughness

[upbeat gyro]

Or could be lack of skills too playing the game, but what im getting at is if i should maybe run more defensive curios than what i currently have

Just checking also what my combat ability does for my Rampage, 26s vs 30s or so

Like what if, id just put triple toughness there too

[low harbor]

Wdym by feeling lack

Is it u going down

Is it u taking health chip

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah, even if i went down last

[low harbor]

What is it

[upbeat gyro]

Both 😄

[tropic crag]

i feel like more better players will tend to drop stam for something thats more likely to save you outright like toughness

[vapid jungle]

Stop.

[low harbor]

I think u might want to review how you’re going down before deciding that

[tranquil fjord]

i like the caxe on scum but arbites caxe also feels very good

[tropic crag]

lol i've held the opinion that block cost reduction is also not the best in slot in vt2 for like 10 years, having more stam in dt helps you cover up mistakes while toughness lets you face tank more without actually taking damage

[vapid jungle]

Stop.

[low harbor]

There is an argument to be made for toughness over stamina on all human classes

I think they’re about equal but stamina improves the feel more tangibly

[tropic crag]

toughness lets you be more active while stam lets you be more reactive yeah

IF sprint sliding didn't let you recharge stam or IF you couldn't push while on low stam then i would agree that more stam is THE pick... but because you can work around stam in a bunch of ways its less value

its still good value

great value even

stam regen is like... top tier tho so its not like i'm saying stam in general is bad

[spiral horizon]

I just run toughness curios with some stam regen slapped on

[tranquil fjord]

all classes have gained ways to regen toughness much more reliably

[tropic crag]

yeah you take it for the DR and not to have more if that makes sense?

[spiral horizon]

I mean regenerating stam is is very easy, just stop consuming it for a sec

[low harbor]

Stamina curio allows u to block mauler/crusher sweep without getting immediately down on stamina

[tranquil fjord]

a stamina curio can effectively double the amount of available stamina on some weapons

such as the dueling sword and cknife

[tropic crag]

yeah thats fine, even slapping health in there somewhere is fine... tbh builds have alot of wiggle room and we have like 5 good options to slap in there

[upbeat gyro]

On Rashad though? Stamina curio that useful?

[tranquil fjord]

yeah the push attacks are good

[spiral horizon]

I've never felt like I've needed so much stam as to justify a curio for it tbh (at least on hive scum and zealot)

[low harbor]

It’s ok

[tropic crag]

i feel like stam regen is the importan thing for pushing and not actual stam numbers

[spiral horizon]

but then again I've got like 6k hours from VT2 so I'm pretty used to managing stam

[upbeat gyro]

Im gonna try more toughness approach and see how it goes

[low harbor]

I think 150hp classes benefit a lot from 1 health curio

[tropic crag]

yeah that game is alot more strict on it, i will run the odd +stam in vt2

[low harbor]

I run +31% health for all 150hp classes

[spiral horizon]

+stam I found really useful on high ping since you're using stam more often when playing with delay

[trim wind]

I don't think I've ever used Stam curios, always 3 toughness or 2 toughness 1 hp

[sonic pumice]

I always run at least one stamina curio so I have for running, shoving and resing block

[low harbor]

If they merge sprint and block efficiency curio perks to just be -stamina cost curio perk I’d run that over stamina curio
Current value is x85% for sprint and x88% for block

Merged global stam cost reduction could be x90%

[dire badge]

It's called a prison pocket

[tranquil fjord]

on the topic of stam reduction

that zealot aura needs a buff

[low harbor]

I honestly think

It swapping with benediction’s spot

Would be enough of a change

[upbeat gyro]

Dropped my stamina curio and instead added one +12% stam regen perk

[vapid jungle]

Im happy with it as is let's me zoom

[eager reef]

i like that the game is at a point where we have options

that's pretty neat

[spark gyro]

zoom-zoom nyoom-nyoom

[candid flint]

fatshark pls reduce options ty

[spark gyro]

Man Car desires linearity and control

[upbeat gyro]

Makes me feel uneasy how those perks are in separate order

[tropic crag]

this is what i do tbh, because if you pump regen speed then you can basically have unlimited stam

[eager reef]

spend the currency to correct this error in judgement

[tranquil fjord]

i don't really like the pathing there in general

[upbeat gyro]

Im too poor to do it

[eager reef]

yeah?

oops

[tropic crag]

i've been experimenting with weapons too much, i'm actually plasteel poor

i've gone under 15k plasteel

[low harbor]

My curio setup rn is

Vet, psyker, hvs
Toughness, stamina, health
3x toughness
2x gunner
2x health
2x docket/revive

Zealot (normal), arb
Toughness, stamina, toughness
3x toughness
2x gunner
2x health
2x docket/revive

Zealot (martyr)
Wound, stamina, wound
3x toughness
2x gunner
2x bomber
2x docket/revive

Ogryn
Toughness, toughness, toughness
3x toughness
2x gunner
2x health
2x docket/revive

[eager reef]

scum has me trying too many stupid ideas

[upbeat gyro]

Even my Rashad is Melk handout

[low harbor]

Swap flak to unarmored

[tropic crag]

i kind of feel like gunner is wasted on lil'uns because you can dodge them easier than oggy can, but i could be wrong on that because the gunners can still shred you if you get stuck for a second on the lil'uns

[low harbor]

It’s to not instadie to reaper wave

[tropic crag]

but now adays i skip gunner for corruption resist on lil'uns

[upbeat gyro]

I remember i had it that way on Vet back in 2024 to hit some Dreg Bruiser or whatever breakpoint with right talents

[tropic crag]

i still feel like you can just live those with movement but yeah if you get caught out and can't actually use the movement then gunner is a good safety net

[low harbor]

Scab bruiser
And it’s been buffed recently to 815 health

[low harbor]

It buys u a bit more time to kill them, is just more flexible in melee

Corruption resist is also ok

[tropic crag]

now adays a rogue flamer will ruin my day more than gunners, probably from playstyle

[eager reef]

im running 2x tough 1x stam with HP/tough/2x rev speed and a stamina regen for something stupid

on scum

[tropic crag]

rev speed is something i always want to mix in to my builds but i like stacking +toughness and +stam regen on basically every curios on every class because i'm dumb and that last slot usually needs to be something thats not rev speed

[mighty belfry]

Reapers stun

[low harbor]

Revive speed is mainly for down/ledge

[mighty belfry]

The second you're caught in their Salvo, the situation immediately becomes bad.

[tropic crag]

lol i know but usually i have an answer to cc them at range on all my builds, i think the real issue is that i tend to refuse to cc the flamers and try to always run around their flame

[mighty belfry]

And sometimes it is not hard for them to catch you off guard lol

[tropic crag]

yeah, sometimes you'll be in a corner and suddenly bullets

[low harbor]

Gunner also is just nice to reduce toughness loss when ur getting shot but need to prioritize killing another enemy before hitting that gunner

[mighty belfry]

Happened to me yesterday. Reaper prefired me around a corner and tore my ass apart.

But I didn't die.

[low harbor]

It’s pretty flexible

[mighty belfry]

If I didn't have that dr

100% I would have gone down.

[tropic crag]

with the way dodging works for lil'uns i feel like you can avoid most of the damage unless you really stepped into a killing field

[low harbor]

Dodge linger in its current state is only an experiment and will likely get reverted

[tropic crag]

like with a mix of dodges, slides and sprinting

[tropic crag]

i'm talking about normally

[mighty belfry]

It's also good particularly for this class because of Tis But a Scratch.

[tropic crag]

but maybe i'm too ogryn brain and am quick to cut off line of sight to reapers and gunners if i can't kill them instantly

[low harbor]

Yea, like I said, it makes target prioritization more flexible

And not instadie to reaper

[mighty belfry]

It was. And then they immediately realized why dodge linger was the way it was before they changed it lol

Unfortunately, vacation time.

[tropic crag]

lol currently bullets are just a concept you have to choose to believe in to be hit by them

unless you're an oggy

then you just get shot

people are going to be so bad at the game when they fix the dodges

[low harbor]

There’s no major difference in movement-based range dodge mechanics between human classes and ogryn afaik

[spark gyro]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/1h9tqKQ9lc96gH/d1337oWY3E5c?invite=cr-MSxxWFgsMTkwNTkwNTA4LA

This is also clear evidence that at some point I ran a wound curio on vet

[tropic crag]

no dodge linger currently, but other than that the main difference is hitbox size, you cant hide your hitbox behind all the medium sized cover around so you have to use walls which means you'll be caught out more

[spark gyro]

You may use this as a weapon against me in the near future

[tropic crag]

lil'uns are always 3 feet from cover

[eager reef]

i had a wounds pysker in an aruic recently and was jsut kinda shocked

they didnt even paly badly either

[tropic crag]

lol you can be misinformed but still skilled

[eager reef]

guy went half the run taking no damage (average pysker gameplay)

[tropic crag]

lol it was probably a hold over from them learning the game and thinking they need the wounds

[mighty belfry]

My friend still runs a wound curio on psyker solely because of the risk of blowing up.

[tropic crag]

or maybe they misunderstand how corruption works

[eager reef]

i understand

[mighty belfry]

And they're honestly fine to play with so I don't give em shit for it.

[spark gyro]

Speaking of, I've maybe realized something about stimm supply

[worthy jewel]

putting them wounds to good use

[eager reef]

least they are honest about it tbh

[spark gyro]

Chem dependency says it gets a stack when the player uses a stimm, and someone earlier was wondering if the stimm supply copies the stimm if the stimm is on cooldown

[eager reef]

if it's more comfortable for you by all means

[tropic crag]

i'm never upset when i see a wounds player, but i will chuckle at them the same way you do when watching kids play t-ball or something, its cute to see someone learning

[spark gyro]

If the CD stack goes up, won't that mean that it does copy the stimm on cooldown?

[eager reef]

it makes me happy bc odds are they are a newer player

[spark gyro]

I will endlessly harass your friend

[low harbor]

Hit box doesn’t affect either movement-based ranged dodge effect, and there’s no engagement threshold difference between human classes and ogryn for those movement-based ranged dodge effects

[tropic crag]

pretty sure the double dip on stacking is unintended... the intended way is just to keep using box only since it gives you double boxes alot with how the cooldowns stagger

[low harbor]

This is an argument that doesn’t hold up well

[tropic crag]

if you're talking about my comment about oggys getting shot this patch they literally don't have the dodge linger nonsense that everyone else has

[low harbor]

You were saying outside of dodge linger prior

And outside of dodge linger there is no difference

Ogryn doesn’t have a narrower sprint dodge angle

[spark gyro]

So aside from just stimm + ability at the start to build stacks, I'm supposed to never use the stimm and just drop the crate?

[tropic crag]

besides hitbox size, you can go stand behind the same thing lil'uns do and you will get shot still, which is why i take gunner resist on them, because then you actually need the ability to have that space to choose targets, with lil'uns you just need to rotate as you fight to keep cutting off sightlines

[tropic crag]

its what i do, you'll be at 4 stacks always and sometimes you'll use your box and then it'll be up right away because your stim came off cooldown so you can use it again

[pulsar aspen]

Do i understand this right, you say you only take Gunner Resistance on Ogryn and for the normal human operatives cover is enough?

[tropic crag]

for the most part yeah, like i'd rather take corruption resist in that slot on lil'uns because thats more dangerous to them

[pulsar aspen]

I see.

[eager reef]

i think it's all comfort, i've and extra curio for playing box or not

box doesnt need the resist if you handle it well

[tropic crag]

yeah its not a hyper critical thing, i came to the conclusion after running gunner resist on lil'uns for a while then swapping it and realizing i wasn't really ever using that gunner resist

but i 100% see it getting use on oggy when i play them

[eager reef]

taking gunner ressit means it's there when you need it or get caught out, corruption resist has more use cases and mroe things that it affects imo

as there are alot of sources of forced corruption damage

[tropic crag]

yeah and i feel like lil'uns get caught out alot less is all... but maybe thats because i played ALOT of oggy before really swapping to the other classes

and oggy can just shrug off alot of corruption damage because of their health pool

[eager reef]

palying mostly og then now mostly maining scum i def feel that shooters and the ilk are less of a trheat

[tropic crag]

so its needed less there

[eager reef]

putting my 528 hp to wrok

[tropic crag]

yeah that is where i'm at even without the current dodge changes (i stopped using gunner on lil'uns before the dodge changes)

[zenith pagoda]

Gunner res is good on everything, not so much for vultures dodge scum or EE psyker

[final temple]

sometimes I am just dummy thicc and those gunner packs very horny for me.

[astral canyon]

I just had a mutant throw me at a daemonhost lmao

[tropic crag]

its good i just don't think its needed and its a contested slot more than best in slot

lol its better than dog resist for sure

[spark gyro]

Beloved, I'm trying to get to Vigil Station Oblivium, but I'm dummy thick and the clap of my warpcheeks keeps alerting the daemons

[tropic crag]

i like to take dog resist sometimes just so i die SUPER slow and can type alot of jokes while it takes me 3 mins to die

[candid flint]

bro doesnt know about the dog resist build 💀

just outed himself as a noob

damn

[eager reef]

triple dog resist on vigor max ogryn

takes you like 2 mintues to be eaten

[candid flint]

you bait, let yourself get dogged, so it cant get a teamate instead

[tropic crag]

its so funny, you have so much time to type so many funny things

if you bring pained outburst you end up saving yourself before any real damage is done as well

[zenith pagoda]

For arby I run

3x17 tough
3x5 tough
3xgunner
1xbomber
1xflamer
1xcorrup

[eager reef]

i want to like arby bc dog is fun and i lvoe teh weapons, but i would rather just play ogryn

[tropic crag]

i basically replace those 3 gunners with 3 stam regens on small classes i love stam regen man

[candid flint]

i left gunner resist behind long ago

never felt it necessary

[zenith pagoda]

Zealot arby and ogryn all have talents that replenish stamina much better, that's why I don't take it on curios for them

[tropic crag]

i just do both lol

i don't need more stam when i have infinite even when i push as much as i do

[eager reef]

the buff to ogryn shove perk is so funny

i adore that perk

[tropic crag]

its a good one

[eager reef]

"No U" rag dolls everything

[zenith pagoda]

Final toll reapers + gunners will drop you before you can blink in h40, that's why people take it, so you actually have time to react

[tropic crag]

i tried so hard to fit on the dumb aoe focused paul style build i was tooling around with and i'm forever sad i can't

[eager reef]

jokes on you i dont play havoc bc i hate the way it handles matchmaking

[sonic pumice]

The brittleness or the 250% stronger shove?

[eager reef]

and anything over 20 is jsut a pain

[zenith pagoda]

Havoc is painful but auric is just too easy

[tropic crag]

whenever i get insta'd i usually just assume it was my own misplay and try not to rotate where i did again or repeat the situation

[eager reef]

the big shove that throws stuff

[mighty belfry]

I like havoc's difficulty.

[sonic pumice]

We need new difficulty: Wolfer must die

[mighty belfry]

Absolutely despise the systems around it.

[tropic crag]

sometimes you still get screwed without doing anything wrong but you can do alot to minimize getting insta'd

[eager reef]

i also cant shell out 40+ minutes at a time for a single mission

[zenith pagoda]

I've seen gunners target though the floor, and if there is a small gap in geometry....

[mighty belfry]

Being at the whim of randoms is painful with demotion in the matter.

The modifiers are annoying.

[eager reef]

alot of modifier i wish were in regular matches

[mighty belfry]

Some being outright broken.

[zenith pagoda]

Last seasons was so funny

Invincible ragers, healing rotten hordes

[tropic crag]

theres that one grated walkway above the event where theres a big white room and the big vats and at the end a boss breaks through the wall... sometimes things will spawn on that walkway and just destroy you through it lol

[eager reef]

they need to mix them in more so more palyers feel less intimidated by jumping into havoc

[pulsar aspen]

Demotion being a thing is good and healthy for the system. Otherwise you'd have people who have no right to be on a certain level be on said level.

Essentially trying again and again looking for someone to carry them through it.

[mighty belfry]

In theory.

In practice, its fucking horrible.

[zenith pagoda]

Trust me, 90% of the clearance 40 players on pubs are awful

[pulsar aspen]

I agree.

Perhaps not on the surface, but once things fall apart, they collapse with it.

[eager reef]

i can attest to this by what i see in auric and mael

[mighty belfry]

And if it was going to be this way, they shouldn't have implemented a system where demotion would have to be a key factor anyway. Especially with servers being as unstable as they are.

[zenith pagoda]

Auric is just solo mode

[pulsar aspen]

[mighty belfry]

And currently, two modifiers quite literally forcing you to demote.

[pulsar aspen]

Which would be?

[mighty belfry]

Cranial + final toll

[zenith pagoda]

Toll + cranial = server nuked

[mighty belfry]

It crashes the server.

[tropic crag]

auric i just zone out and vibe and help people up, sometimes i walk off a cliff and we wipe... or i get burstered off a cliff and we wipe... but other than that its a nice stroll with the kids

[pulsar aspen]

Can be avoided.

[mighty belfry]

...by either playing someone else's game or demoting

Like that is inexcusable.

[pulsar aspen]

That is true.

[tropic crag]

i mean if this was like... a hospital or a government thing... yeah inexcusable. In a video game for a short time while people are on a break? i think its a little excusable

its not like they want to keep the game crashing lol

[eager reef]

shame we cant build a mission with modifiers we like and be rewarded for clearing them

[pulsar aspen]

That is also true.

It certainly does not help.

[tropic crag]

i think that would probably end up with everyone just always running the same things over and over ignoring 90% of the systems would be the main reason not to let it happen

[zenith pagoda]

I don't think there should be modifier rotations tbh

They should keep all the good balanced modifiers all at once, then games will be more diverse

[eager reef]

sadly you arent wrong, i know im in the small camp of liking nearly all teh modifers we've gotten

[tropic crag]

yeah that would probably be nice, but then it would be even more like auric+ and i would want even more for them to just add it to quickplay

[zenith pagoda]

Remove pus hardened and rework rotten armour and we good on modifiers

[mighty belfry]

It's inexcusable to me because the reason having a bug like that is so problematic is because of havoc's systems.

It would be a nothingburger if you weren't forced to demote or completely avoid it so you wouldn't derank.

[zenith pagoda]

Skill issue

Game crashes? Skill issue

[mighty belfry]

Havoc's very design makes that bug worse than it has to be.

[tropic crag]

maybe its a difference in what one considers inexcusable... like if you changed my life for the next decade in a negative way then i would say thats inexcusable... if you erased all my darktide save data right now i'd say its rude but not inexcusable... a game server crashing and me losing some progress for it? a literal nothing burger

[zenith pagoda]

Buff crusher hp

Increase hitmass

[tropic crag]

make it so when we kill a crusher 5 maulers pop out

[mighty belfry]

You're comparing hospital/governmental errors to this which is a pretty extreme comparison to begin with

So I don't think we're really gonna be on the same page about this.

[zenith pagoda]

Make crushers fly and chokeslam

[tropic crag]

that was the point, i was saying to be inexusable you have to do alot more than cost me a few hours of my life... if i thought that was inexcusable i'd have alot more enemies

[mighty belfry]

Tis different when you don't have that much time to waste.

[tropic crag]

we are all dying, no one has time to waste, if i start holding that against others who are also on borrowed time then i just waste more of my own limited time

[mighty belfry]

And it's not even the bug I'm really fixated on for my point.

This doesn't have to be as problematic as it is currently.

It's FS's insistence on creating an unfriendly system around Havoc that's resulted in these issues and its not just this specific bug either.

[tropic crag]

honestly i think the systems are fine, because a ladder like that doesn't need everyone to climb it or should they be owed that. I think it should have a matchmaker and probably a wider pool of modifiers per season (if not all modifiers at once)

[tropic crag]

thats a very reductive view on how designing a system works, they aren't sitting there and going "heheheheheheheh we will make them suffer because we got into the games industry to make peoples days worse"... designing things is hard and FS likes to take alot of risks... which some have paid off in gold and some are... misses lol

and then they take time to fix because designing things is hard

[mighty belfry]

This has been an issue.

Since Havoc's current demotion system has been in effect.

Which has been for quite a while.

[tropic crag]

i don't think thats the issue tbh, i think thats the issue that you the end user is feeling but not the cause of the issue, which loops back around into designing things can be hard, because you often has to take feedback and seemingly ignore it because its highlighted a real problem

[mighty belfry]

You would think they'd realize something isn't exactly working out when people are left and right complaining about virtually completing their run only for the server to just crash on them.

[tropic crag]

and then you have to mix how many hands they actually have on a side project like havoc

and time tables will inflate

[mighty belfry]

Which also demotes them.

[tropic crag]

you could design the prefect system and people would complain left and right

[mighty belfry]

It doesn't have to be perfect.

[tropic crag]

you could put people in the actual garden of eden and you would get complaints year round lol

[mighty belfry]

But it shouldn't be as broken as it is currently.

[tropic crag]

you can't just listen to the customers when they are complaining about issues of design, you 100% listen to them about their tastes but you never take on board their design stuff (unless they pass you an accidental gem lol)

HD2 is showign us why you don't listen to complaints too closely lol

rivals is the same

[vapid jungle]

Player bases will always complain and Fatshark can do better. Both can be true.

[tropic crag]

i would argue, being a fan of theirs since war of the roses, they've done nothing BUT do better

every year FS has done better

[vapid jungle]

That's apologist nonsense. This game launched in a horrific state.

[mighty belfry]

With Havoc, I genuinely don't think so.

[tropic crag]

compared to the other 4 launches i've been through with them darktides was the smoothest and launched with the best product... hands down no contest... because the stuff before darktide was much much much much much worse

[mighty belfry]

I play it. But again, hate the systems around it.

[vapid jungle]

Yea just because its relatively better doesnt make it acceptable

[tropic crag]

for their second take on weaves.... its worlds better and you'd be actually insane to not think that

[mighty belfry]

And I hate that it existing has also caused power creep in this game thats arguably made it worse functionally.

[vapid jungle]

They had the cash shop working at launch about nothing else

[mighty belfry]

It's better. Doesn't mean it's good lmaoooo

[tropic crag]

i said they improved LMAOOOO

[mighty belfry]

But that doesn't change my point.

Something being relatively better doesn't suddenly mean there aren't issues with it.

And havoc, has quite a bit of issues.

Not just with itself but honestly how its affected the game as a whole.

[tropic crag]

i never said that, i said that you were identifying the wrong part as the real issue, you were seeing an effect of the real issues and those can be fixed and alleviate the problem you are seeing... which i said in response to you talking about "why doesn't FS listen"

[mighty belfry]

They've existed. For long enough.

[tropic crag]

havoc can be fixed and should be, but it isn't the demotion thats an issue at all

[mighty belfry]

It's 100% a part of it.

[vapid jungle]

I guess what's why they had to change the previous iteration of demotion

[tropic crag]

i would assume the team on havoc is a much smaller one than on the main game... and i would also assume engineering hours is being eaten up by EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME to spend them on something like havoc that is one of the smaller portions of their player base

[mighty belfry]

I never said demotion was the sole issue. It's everything else compounding into it and demotion topping the sundae since there's no demotion protection.

[tropic crag]

demotion protection could be cheesed tbh, at least any ones that actually protect

since its not a pvp game

[mighty belfry]

I would rather. It can be cheesed.

[tropic crag]

yes because you feel like you are owed the rank increases which was one of my earlier points

[mighty belfry]

If you fully complete a run, and the entire server goes down right before you get on the Valkyrie, is that not deserving of your rank?

[tropic crag]

its one of the hardest parts of building a ladder system tbh, if you give in too much to that player feeling of being owed advancement then you end up in a rivals situation, if you don't give into it at all then players will bounce

[mighty belfry]

Because I've experienced that.

Multiple times.

[tropic crag]

its not deserving for you to climb in a video game thats played for fun no... at that point its just an "oh well" situation

[idle ore]

demotion is fine even with crashes

if you are good enough you'll climb eventually anyway

[mighty belfry]

It's still disheartening when it happens.

[tropic crag]

yeah you'd have to crash alot for it to actually making you lose alot of progress if you're actually climbing

[mighty belfry]

And guess what happens when someone sees it happening numerous times?

They don't want to play it.

[idle ore]

i agree, but using the crashes as a reason for demotion to not exist doesnt rlly make sense

its the same as in every competitive ranked game, sometimes you have leavers/trolls throwers etc

[tropic crag]

its disheartening when players lose the game for you instead of a crash, should we give protection against bad teams too? what about if your power goes off in your house? what if your team mates power goes off?... yeah these things all suck but its also just a game so the setbacks are minimal as long as you actually had fun playing the game.... if you can't have fun playing the game without winning then maybe it isn't the game you're there for

[mighty belfry]

Demotion in theory is fine. I said this already. But the instabilities around Havoc are so numerous that it makes demotion an issue.

[tranquil berry]

this isn't a ladder system, there are no leaderboards and there's no competition here. Just let people choose any rank they want, from a drop down, up to the highest they ever beat + 1.

[mighty belfry]

It's not just demotion itself that's the issue.

[idle ore]

how often do you lose a match bc of a connection issue

for me its like 1 in 5 maybe

not enough to matter

but if it affects you more frequently then i can see your point more easily

[tropic crag]

it is very literally a ladder since you have to climb up the ranks by winning... its not a pvp ladder but it very much is a ladder that shows your rank publicly basically as a "look how far i made it" sticker

its not an elo ladder

[tranquil berry]

you can keep showing the highest beaten rank publicly

sometimes I have a 40 and want to run a 25 with some newer players

[mighty belfry]

From servers crashing to people suddenly getting dced in the middle of a really dicey situation

[tranquil berry]

other times I have a 20 cause I haven't played in months and have to grind my way up so I can play at my diff, or home someone's hosting

[tropic crag]

yes, but you need to like... get there first, i get what you mean and you are right that its not a ladder like league of legends or something but it is a co op ladder system

[tranquil berry]

not being able to play whatever difficulty I want is dumb

[tranquil berry]

yes, so let me host the highest I ever beat + 1, up to 40. any time

what's the problem with that?

still gotta earn my 40 being in the dropdown, but can play a 17 on tuesdays if I want

maybe I wanna experiment with goofy builds on a 30

can't do that, cause I'll probaly fail 3 times and it'll be 29

[tropic crag]

currently the only problem is that they have the modifiers on rotation so you needing to prove it again becomes part of the system just by logic... but if we swapped to no seasons or just wider pools of modifers then it would be fine to allow for forever 40 hosting

[tranquil berry]

there's nothing to prove. can just shop for OP players to carry me through an easy map so I can "earn my 40", then proceed to suck in pubs all the time

it's a restricting system in an attempt to be elitist while still having a TON of fake 40s out there

lose-lose design

[mighty belfry]

There are so many people with clearance 40s

[tropic crag]

you proved yourself to be charming enough to get that many people to carry you. social connections are still a skill, i wouldn't be able to find people to carry me tbh

[mighty belfry]

Ain't no way this is how you rebut that point.

[tranquil berry]

so can I be charming enough to be allowed to play the game at whatever difficulty I want?

I'll blow a dev for it, no problem!

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/gatocurioso-cat-uwu-cat-gif-25996419

[tropic crag]

name a ranked system where this isn't the case? earnestly

the social aspect of a ranked system will always be there and because the games are just silly games we dont' care that much about it because its weird to bring up as an actual point

its like one of the first things talked about in design classes when you start talking about systems like this

[mighty belfry]

But why does this system need to be implemented like this, in a PvE horde game?

[tranquil berry]

let's test this theory: anyone wanna carry me through a 40? I promise to not even try, but I will be funny throughout. I'll provide color comentary, cheesy jokes as it happens, and will eat every overhead with a side of fries.

no sauce though

[tropic crag]

because weaves are a pet project of at least one of the devs, honestly i just play the portions of games i want to. if something isnt my jam i just go play one of the literal 10s of thousands of other options i have for games

like they really want weaves to work lol

[light phoenix]

Is it worth trying to build into Perfect Strike Heavy Sword?

[mighty belfry]

Again, especially with the instabilities.

I say this knowing we probably don't need to worry that much in terms of really winning the game because a fair bit of us know the CBT simulator and how to deal with it.

Until uh

The AI director says fuck you.

[tropic crag]

losing and setback should always be part of a tide game tbh

not saying it should be crashes

but the director just making you lose should never go away lol

[mighty belfry]

But there's no way I can justifiably say that Havoc is currently a welcoming system for people to try and dip their toes into because of all the jank around actually playing it.

[tranquil berry]

I enjoy getting stiffed by directors...

any high class escort would!

also darktide players

[mighty belfry]

Because I may play it to get my balls stomped on. You may too. I like to win but if i don't, I can have my fun with losing.

But when losing is completely out of my hands because the game itself decided to shit itself, it don't feel so good. And when I was actually trying to rank, especially so. Because I want to get to 40 so I can freely run those without restrictions.

[tranquil berry]

that argument started out strong, but it did not go the way I thought it would. I agree, mostly, but you ended on a low there....

[tropic crag]

maybe its because i've lost thousands of hours on mulitple games when it wasn't in my control but like... i just can't be bothered over a game crashing sometimes or something like that... and if it happened so much it did bother me i'd just boot up another game

like its not even as bad as playing an overwatch match and someone leaving RIGHT after the match would have canceled from them leaving so now we have to wait an extra 3 mins

but even that doesn't like bother me bother me

and i say the pvp thing is worse because then its directly 1 human being a dick

[mighty belfry]

I mean I don't think it's that different from what you were saying.

I want to play the higher end difficulties without needing to deliberately go into someone else's 40.

So naturally, if someone's trying to organically rank and then they just get crashed out and now progress is lost, that just kinda makes the grind feel worse than it really needs to be.

[tropic crag]

i've also spent like 15 years working with machines that have glitches that have actually for real killed people... but they don't get fixed we're just told to work around them lol

i'll get mad about glitches that kill people

[sonic pumice]

Is rashad for Hscum the same for other classes? I heard that due cleave in the perk tree you don't take Bromentum, us that true?

[mighty belfry]

And for some, that would even dishearten them from wanting to bother with Havoc.

[bronze glade]

You need brumetum

Rashad lights have like no cleave

Even with cleave talents

[tropic crag]

which is fine, a player who would be put off by that actually also wouldn't want to keep playing havocs even if everything went right... and thats fine since its a fun side mode of the game

[mighty belfry]

Rashad is weird

[tropic crag]

i like bromentum on alot of weapons tbh even when its not still the top pick

its just comfy on alot of weapons

[mighty belfry]

My thing is, we don't know that.

That player may like the difficulty but get put off by Havoc's design. I'm one of them but it doesn't put me off enough to not play it because I like the CBT simulator.

Enough not to have it put me off that much.

[tropic crag]

how would you not know its a silly side mode? its not even on the main table, its off to the side like mortis

[mighty belfry]

But I also wish that actually playing it was just, more user friendly lol

[astral canyon]

You take brumentum regardless

[tropic crag]

yeah they can def make it more user friendly, i think folding it into the main modes would go a long way for that... but they def want weaves mk2

at least this time you don't have to pay money for weaves

[mighty belfry]

I would have rather they just tried to fold it into the normal modes honestly.

[tropic crag]

we're much more likely to just get chaos wastes mk2 tbh over them ever fully changing havoc

[mighty belfry]

I do want to say. Again. I do like Havoc, because I'm insane.

But I really wish it was just implemented better than it currently is.

[tropic crag]

when FS decides on a baby they don't want to throw away they hold on tight

[light phoenix]

Please, don't do that. Don't give me hope

[tropic crag]

lol don't worry it won't be for like 4 years at least

[final temple]

I’d love some chaos wastes style game mode.

[light phoenix]

Best news I've ever heard

Proof that roguelites are always fun

[tropic crag]

really i think that havoc just gets put on the backburner because its a side project, i assume that most of their manpower is going towards the base game which is why havoc stagnates like it has been

[tropic crag]

hitman freelancer turned it from a game i played through once or twice into one of my main games lol

[mighty belfry]

Honestly, my main issue with that

It feels like this game's balance is trying to teeter between base game and Havoc.

Because the power creep has been, particularly bad recently.

[tropic crag]

i think thats a perspective problem and forgetting how odd the people in this discord tend to be.... like i don't think havoc is really considered in balance... they are trying to balance for the "average" player in aurics

aurics increased in difficulty too recently which is why the creep got bigger

but yeah where better players see "this is a havoc balanced thing" the average player is like "oh thank god i can live in auric"

[mighty belfry]

Aurics increased in difficulty because of the already present power creep.

And then that update also power crept the game even more.

Auric right now is weird.

[tropic crag]

i don't think that was their intent watching FS over the years... especially with tide games. I assume they are trying to make it more fun by making the game more active and dense, then they need to play catchup with the characters. the same thing happened in VT2 almost on the same time table

VT2 also had a time where cata got harder and everyone was getting buffed

[mighty belfry]

Because it's either gonna be a dominoes game with your team going down constantly or the team just wipes everything out without a second thought.

It's never anything in between anymore lmao

[tropic crag]

yeah if i'm not awake enough at the start of an auric i might be clucthing before i realize and just fall over lol

[mighty belfry]

Also I will say.

Some of Arbitrator's and Scum's nodes

Genuinely feel like they're meant for Havoc

[tropic crag]

i think its that better players see it as excess value... the corruption nodes i will give you, but only those

[mighty belfry]

It's exactly those that I'm talking about.

[tropic crag]

corruption nodes mostly only have use in havoc

but yeah i think those are just filler nodes they put in and not ones they really made from the start

i think the like core of the kits are soley made for the average player in aurics

because most people are not that good

like i'm kind of the most clownish "good" player around but even i'll play circles around most average players

[mighty belfry]

I will attest.

[final temple]

I am pretty sure these are filler because they ran out of meaningful nodes without encroaching on what made previous classes unique

[mighty belfry]

I am not the best player.

But I'm also self aware enough to understand that I'm at least somewhat above average.

[tropic crag]

yeah thats the feeling i got form them too, they were like "should we stick a stat node here?" "uhhh what about a corruption node for havoc?"

[mighty belfry]

I mean having 3.5k hours in this game will do that.

[tropic crag]

i can fight anything you put in front of me, but i may just ignore critical things or walk off a cliff in my scrapper locked haze

i get too tranced out

[mighty belfry]

That's a fair point actually.

[mighty belfry]

Me going to town shanking the rotten armor horde

[tropic crag]

like trap me in a room with your problems and the only problem that will walk back out is me, but i WILL lose us the match by dodging off a bridge

[mighty belfry]

Until a dog just pounces me out of nowhere and gets me overheaded.

[mighty belfry]

Okay why would you talk about me like this

[tropic crag]

sometimes i go to push a dog right after my rampage runs out as well

[mighty belfry]

I did that twice

[tropic crag]

honestly i thought i was trash at these games for a long time till one day i noticed every time i go down we tend to lose and i was like "oh... maybe... maybe im not the bad one"

[mighty belfry]

In that staircase after the mid event in Archivum

[tropic crag]

i hate stairs in these games, weird things happen on stairs

[mighty belfry]

Yesterday.

And hh

We lost because of that.

Definitely one of the more awkward losses I've had.

Literally said I'll leave but the host said no because they saw how much damage I was doing to the carapace hordes

Btw

Flesh tearer on shivs

Try it.

I was a nonbeliever

[tropic crag]

lol i already have a meme bleed build with the slashy knives

it turned out to be so good i was upset because its not even a meme build its just a pretty solid build

[final temple]

the emperor would have beaten horus easily if he had seized the high ground on the palatine

[tropic crag]

the slashy knives also are very cool weapons after trying them, really interesting combos and pattern pathing

[tropic crag]

he could have just ridden on his brothers shoulders smh my head

[mighty belfry]

I use stabby.

[spark gyro]

corkscrew knives are goated

stabby put a question mark above my head

sorry slashy

idk

[tropic crag]

slashy are weird... but you can access stabby heavies in weird ways on it and it has some really unique ways of dealing with things

they are in no way better

but they are much more fun than stabby

they're very active

[mighty belfry]

As it turns out, being able to deal two forms of DoTs on crits, along with rampage's damage boost and the shiv knives letting you proc a bunch of toxin before engaging

Does quite a number on rotten armor with uncanny

[tropic crag]

yeah its funny, even if you try to make that setup meme bad (by going double bleed and doing other dumb things with the nodes) its still pretty good

[spark gyro]

I really like using shivs with chem dependency

Not sure if they have any innate crit, but they probably do

[mighty belfry]

Shivs are generally better with Chem tbf

[tropic crag]

all weapons have at least some crit and yeah i think shivs are base a bit higher than normal

but i could be wrong

[mighty belfry]

Cuz innate crit and good finesse.

[tropic crag]

yeah the finesse is a big thing

[spark gyro]

Crowbar is fun

[tropic crag]

more people should try slashy knives for fun, you access some of their stuff with push then heavy (not a push attack, its like pauls heavy being different after a push) and other things like that... its fun when you get the flow of it

[mighty belfry]

Lights are faster too.

[tropic crag]

but also if you just try to do normal heavies or just lights you'll end up hating your life and the shivs

[tropic crag]

yeah thats why i used them for the meme dot build

[mighty belfry]

Tbf the reason I like stabby so much is because of the heavy-light chain.

[tropic crag]

you can 5 finger death strike elites with the meme dot build and walk away like you're a kung fu master as they drop dead behind you

[tropic crag]

yeah it feels very vt2 coded

[astral canyon]

Heavy-light?

[brittle sierra]

Crushers:

[tropic crag]

it actually is 100% if you don't pull out like 4 tricks to kill them faster

one time i was running the build i was punching a crusher like that for fun and i turned and realized the psyker had just stopped to watch me do it for like 10 seconds

[mighty belfry]

Overhead double stab into the quick light stab.

Really good single target and really snappy too.

[astral canyon]

I see

[muted heath]

38 more hive scum missions and I can go back to playing other classes

Devil claw hive scum is super fun though and I am not sure rampage is completely the best option.

Triple stimm, stimm pack might be better for. Just for the finnesse stacking

[dim moth]

But you have seen the light

MY light

or someones

I don't know

[mighty belfry]

I mean I run uncanny. Not riposte.

So kinda?

[astral canyon]

What are the attack combos for bonesaw

Its the only scum weapon left for me to fully master

[final temple]

Single: H L
Cleave: L H
DGAF: LLL

[dim moth]

heretic

[main trellis]

just increase your hp instead...

can't even kill a mauler... its that inconsistent... it need major help...

[mighty belfry]

I want my bleed to actually do something against rotten armor ty

[main trellis]

thats abusing uncanny tho; trauma on the other hand...

[dim moth]

it's still doing nothing just less nothing

[main trellis]

only mybe mutant resist is better than dog; dog is... the worst

[zenith pagoda]

Make crushers immune to DoT

[mighty belfry]

No it's doing something.

Zai pretty much said it right there.

The bleed isn't the big damage dealer. It's meant to scale the DR down so you can start doing big damage since DoTs aren't affected by it.

I tried it with combat knife and the bleed damage is more potent there but

[zenith pagoda]

Double their hp too

[mighty belfry]

Toxin knives give shivs more of an edge.

It's cheesy, but tbf it's better than everyone expecting you to run pickpocket solely because you're a scum and you should.

[light phoenix]

Is it worth running toxin crit on Shivs?

[mighty belfry]

IMHO, yeah.

It's one of the better weapons for it because you can throw toxin knives and wail at whatever you threw them at to keep the toxin stacks going.

That being said, however.

You'll barely ever notice it on Auric if I'll be real.

Since with practical shiv setups, a lot of stuff dies too fast for the toxin crit to matter that much.

[astral canyon]

What if youll be fake

[mighty belfry]

There's an argument to be made for slashy shivs on full on toxin builds but

That's about it really. It's just nice to have.

[limber cradle]

The only use case for tox crit ime are bosses

And thats more of a "I don't want to use the needler to magdump them" type thing

Which i get.

[mighty belfry]

Rotten armor

[woeful hill]

tox bulwarks by hitting their shield

[mighty belfry]

Low-key helps actually.

[limber cradle]

Nimble+Jittery dashing around them anyway, but yeah

[spiral horizon]

I mean rotten armour is toxin's ultimate playpen so that checks out

[limber cradle]

Yeah ig

[mighty belfry]

Even that little incremental stack topped with bleed stacks and uncanny

Actually does help with whittling down their DR faster.

And it's better if you can apply some toxin before you start wailing.

I wish I was home to share this but I was playing a Rotten Armor h40 doing that.

Think I got like

212 elite kills?

[woeful hill]

I played rotten armor once

[mighty belfry]

Didn't win it but it was fun and kinda cathartic.

[spiral horizon]

just once

[woeful hill]

ye

[limber cradle]

I'm ngl I didn't even think about rot armor cause I stopped playing the game again

[mighty belfry]

...I don't believe you.

[limber cradle]

Apparently you can't actually play havoc rn

Cranial just breaks the game

[woeful hill]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-hammer-cat-being-hit-on-the-head-with-a-hammer-monjjunirawr-silly-cat-cat-hammered-gif-10390299470246788991

me trying to pop the parasite reaper

[mighty belfry]

Cranial + final toll breaks the game

[limber cradle]

Why?

[mighty belfry]

[low harbor]

it aborts ur mission

[mighty belfry]

How the hell would I know? I'm just a humble dog.

[limber cradle]

I thought you were a goblin

[mighty belfry]

I can be both.

[low harbor]

I'm debating if I want 2 toughness + health on every human class

as opposed to 2 toughness + stam for z/arb
and even spread for the rest

[mighty belfry]

To be completely frank. I started running 2 toughness 1 health on scum

[limber cradle]

I did awhile ago tbh