hivescum-class

[vapid jungle]

Or a flock of pillow feet crushers descends you can sit them down

[restive frost]

yea fuk those lmao

cant hear them at all

[main trellis]

That + you can be more offensive; CC is HS weak side & that talent helps

[restive frost]

i tried sneaking past 6 crushers

as psyker

then all of a sudden i get hit from behind

[main trellis]

And you probably succeeded… being flat as a pancake

[restive frost]

shoulda just tried killing them

[main trellis]

Psycakes

[vapid jungle]

Just murder them with your beloved

[restive frost]

was gunna do that til ma dead teammate told me to sneak past

[vapid jungle]

Yea he's dead cos he tried that

[restive frost]

lmao

[unique dagger]

I was doing a solo 40 on baross yesterday with scum

died trying to press the left button on end event

someone end me

[vapid jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/swing-and-a-miss-old-man-bowling-misses-gif-14069253533381503513

[unique dagger]

75 minutes to get to that point

f

[vapid jungle]

Uninstall

Ill never have the patience for solo anything

[unique dagger]

was on rotten red

rotten is pretty manageable on scum

as toxin goes through their dr

[vapid jungle]

I think with needle/pickpocket and solid movement and positioning any situation is doable with space

[unique dagger]

it is

solos are all about getting to a clear n good kiting path

[hot edge]

wouldnt have happened on laptop

need to go back

[main trellis]

I refuse to use that OP combo; not until they work on pickpocket or nerf toxin adm

[vapid jungle]

Im trying to come off it too its not gonna continue to exist in this form

But it is crazy fun. Try mortis aurix with it you can burn 8 bosses down at once.

HS is really fun in that mode.

They have a boon that makes blinders spawn a psyker dome

[tranquil berry]

Needler high adm spam, pickpocket infinite ammo and busted dodge linger giving borderline infinite dodges is really messing with balance right now

[lilac ermine]

Needle not even good

[vapid jungle]

Yikes.

By not good you mean highest damage ranged weapon in the game?

[lilac ermine]

Not good has no stagger or instant kill

[vapid jungle]

I see.

[lilac ermine]

Hive scum shreds bosses just as fast with needle or without

[vapid jungle]

An unironic skill issue

[pallid quail]

how does a class manage to be op n useless at the same time ?

[livid raven]

needs more buffs

[zenith fern]

needler not good because the projectile hit does not one tap everything before chem tox damages them

rotters should be scared of needles

[restive frost]

😭

[lilac ermine]

Needle will get your team killed more than usual

[restive frost]

that sounds like a skill issue on their part

[lilac ermine]

Its more for clutching bc the only ppl who use it are ppl who like running

[zenith fern]

Bro giving the dexter look

https://tenor.com/view/doakes-dexter-dexter-doakes-gotcha-found-you-gif-14688017774431904057

[lilac ermine]

What are ppl needing needle gun for besides rotten armor

[vapid jungle]

It kills everything

Like one headshot kills most enemies

[lilac ermine]

It kills them after letting them fire their net or flame or dog jump or throw a bomb

Crushers can be killed in 1 shot with shivs if your melee

And specials and gunners can be killed in 1 shot with bp

[vapid jungle]

Im not interested in arguing this with you

[exotic temple]

Thin out with needle gun, spam heavy attack into heads, block and dodge their combo.

[austere coyote]

this assumes needles are filled with medicine and not ground glass, cigarette ash and tar

[spark gyro]

Strangely specific combination

Bro knows something I don't

[dim moth]

literally everything

if you need something dead immediately you can just shoot them 2-3 times

if you can tolerate it living a bit longer one needle will kill any specialist

[main latch]

does field improv ammo box restore rockets

[dim moth]

(not mutants)

[dim moth]

is there a reason it wouldn't

[main latch]

im just asking

[spark gyro]

It does, yeah

It's a blitz

[main latch]

ok cool

[light phoenix]

It's so sad when playing with a Vet without Field Improv

[main latch]

i guess my havoc 30 veteran decided to to take the node

[dim moth]

I never take it

[light phoenix]

Free nades are so good

[dim moth]

situational niche talent when I could take serrated blade which is MID but always there

[main latch]

how do these people exist

[light phoenix]

Ok but tbf serrated blade kinda nice

[main latch]

congrats on your braindamage

[vapid jungle]

I got cursed out by a true survivor arb in an auric for not taking it. That's the 3rs person I've had to block ever.

[dim moth]

dude I'm not taking field improv for the one in 10 games that it does something

[vapid jungle]

Some people are so weird

[dim moth]

I will spend 1 extra talent point to avoid it and take serrated blade every time

unless I am literally out of skill points and still need more down below

[light phoenix]

Whoa ok no need to attack for not taking Field Improv tho

[dim moth]

shit's useless to me, and useless to anyone other than scum and ogryn if they are taking their best (or only for psyker) blitz options

[main latch]

you can take whatever shitty reddit build you want but if you dont take field improv in havoc you are griefing and should be banned from joining teams

[dim moth]

field improv is not that good

it is an extremely situational talent

[main latch]

yes it fucking is

[light phoenix]

Sorry didn't mean to bring this up and for this to escalate

[ocean hollow]

No no, this is comedy

You've done well

[vapid jungle]

I think i found the arbi

[dim moth]

the oly time field improv is good is when you have a scum/ogryn on your team and NEED to spam nuke/rockets right now

and also you have the ammo crate

the corruption cleanse/faster med crates are nice but like

you usually have another source of corruption cleanse in havoc anyways

[livid raven]

how about you field improve your build instead

[dim moth]

the ammo crate grenades are the main primar yebenfit and it being useful hinges on a few things that do not come up often

step 1 you actually need the crate

and the game not only can but will spawn ammo crates at the absolute fucking ass end of the mission

step 2 there needs to be enough enemies that one rocket/oggy nuke cannot solve the problem

[vapid jungle]

General rule of thumb let people run what they want to run.

[dim moth]

step 3 whoever is carrying the ammo crate needs to be paying attention (usually pretty likely in havocs since comms exist)

[main latch]

yeah my group just wiped because i dropped ammo thinking i could get rockets back to kill 3 bosses running at us but our special redditor vet needed to have serrated blade on the ranged specialist killer class i guess

[dim moth]

and then congratulations field improv has gotten value one out of its maximum two times this mission

[livid raven]

your fault for taking it for granted

[vapid jungle]

You wiped because you wiped not because of a single talent decision.

[main latch]

yeah i figured people trying to do high havoc keys would at least understand basic game mechanics but ok

[dim moth]

and it's a dead talent for literally every other scenario for the veteran

[livid raven]

you got owned

[main latch]

ok thanks for the discussion

[dim moth]

it wasn't a discussion it was me explaining very patiently to you how the talent is very situational

[main latch]

i forgot why i left this sedition gaming clown server in the first place

[dim moth]

it's actually quite the opposite

people here get their opinions because they can clear h40 with whatever the fuck they want lmao

[livid raven]

he got so angery he left

[vapid jungle]

Ill bet he leaves games when he goes down too

Brittle spirit

[livid raven]

he does sound like the type

[light phoenix]

Oh like leaving to let bot take over even though someone is picking up?

[dim moth]

no

just leaving and not coming back

auric revolving door type player

[light phoenix]

Lol never thought there was a type

[vapid jungle]

Oh there is. Soyboys.

[light phoenix]

Granted I like playing cause its fun, losses are part of it

[vapid jungle]

Its fun to watch others clutch why leave.

[livid raven]

the classic auric rager:

• Rushes through the level
• Probably uses a knife
• misplaces himself and gets surrounded by an horde/trappers/dogs
• Dies
• leaves

[light phoenix]

Omg ...now that you mention it

I saw quite a bunch of those

I just wanna quick play after work and suddenly the team I joined all start leaving after getting downed

[livid raven]

i had three people yesterday in maelstrom that rushed in without thinking and got clapped by a beast of nurgle + wave of specialist + daemon host and all died

i had to take the long route, shoot 3 rockets on my feet to kill the horde and wave of specialists, solo the boss and rescue them

really luck i kept myself back instead of rushing in too, it looked pretty ugly

[vapid jungle]

Character name? this sounds familiar

[livid raven]

HivesCum

[vapid jungle]

Oh I've played with yoy before!

[livid raven]

have you

[vapid jungle]

SaneJane

[livid raven]

is there a history tab to check

[upbeat gyro]

Thats me lastnight trying out Rashad for first time, i didnt leave though, instead watched how the level 300s+ folded 30s later to small group of elites and made no effort to unnet me

After that, following games went smooth

[light phoenix]

Wait that's allowed??

[vapid jungle]

There is but its pretty short term

[livid raven]

yeah i tried IveCum first but it didn't work

[vapid jungle]

Yah I saw his name and laughed that's why I remembered it

[livid raven]

was this the guy you saw

desperado user with vraks

[vapid jungle]

Swaggy im always running chrome dome tank top.

[upbeat gyro]

I had auric team trigger every daemonhost i pinged and struggled with em, then asked why they do it and they replied for fun. Cant argue with that, but id wish they atleast would then manage em well

Like thunderhammer em down in seconds or something

[vapid jungle]

Sometimes a run is going too well you gotta add a bit of drama

Also hscum dclaw ruins DH

[upbeat gyro]

It felt like borderline at brink of disaster at times

[upbeat gyro]

This guy drugs

I think i have seen in local raves here

[livid raven]

yeah she do

[upbeat gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-dance-russian-gif-7591158

Tactical dancing goggles so you wont see his all dilated like that

And that metallic jaw holder so he wont be churning

[livid raven]

i am waiting on new skins to make her uglier, but alas

[jaunty coral]

wow, this class is so fun. And it feels incredibly powerful in havoc.
But yes, squishy.

its wild to me people downvoted it as a bad class, mixed reviews - and its potentially one of the fun classes in the game, one of the more powerful, and is more or less now 'meta' for an S tier havoc team (poison + stimm build, and 15s stimm build for blight is insanely good)

just goes to show how people dont know what the fuck they're talking about when they initially judge something

[livid raven]

no they were right, it was poorly thought out at launch

[jaunty coral]

no they werent

it had a couple minor adjustments lol

[livid raven]

you literally had meaningless nodes until level 20 or so

[jaunty coral]

acting like the whole class is bad, a dissapointment and bombarding reviews because checks notes they shifted a couple talents around, and buffed the rocket launcher does NOT make it bad class at launch either

[upbeat gyro]

Hivescum feels bad if you are new to game unable to dodge, leveling feels very papery dying to one random hit

[jaunty coral]

and i would say while yes it was a good change to move around some core nodes, it didn't make it a useless class. It was the same at 30 minus the rocket buff lol

and the nimble change

[spark gyro]

Hive Sgoon

[jaunty coral]

to expect the class to need 0 adjustments as it works into the meta is cope

[livid raven]

i wish i bought it twice

[jaunty coral]

downvoting it and giving it perma mixed reviews, when its one of the most interesting designed and playable classes in the game, and is powerful enough to be on the 'meta havoc 40 comp' means

it should not be mixed reviews

IMO

people are jerks

[livid raven]

so i could put a negative review two times

[jaunty coral]

why you here in the hivescum chat, potentially still playing the class, if you gave it a negative review?

[upbeat gyro]

Ive yet to take Hscum to havocs but i can see the value of medkit and chem melting there, soon, soon..

[livid raven]

tho i don't think refunded stuff goes into the review score

[jaunty coral]

did you not change your review when they made updates a few days after launch?

[livid raven]

because i'm just fine like that

[livid raven]

no i never had a negative view on the class

except that the early levels were pretty poor

[jaunty coral]

so you hate the class, you returned it, you dont actively play it, but you left a negative review on the page and you're here debating me its a bad class in the hive scum chat, which you dont even own anymore?

ya this is an easy block

this dude is a fucking troll

[livid raven]

no, i like the class, i have it still, i play only hivescum (for now)

[upbeat gyro]

For me leveling was poor until i unlocked Vraks IAG

So.. lvl 7 or something

[lavish bronze]

Mamox you are either blind or blind and illiteratr

[jaunty coral]

and you're arguing it DESERVES bad reviews bc it needed a couple minor balance adjustments on launch? which came within a week?

i leveled the class too

and i didnt notice major issues

i was a little squishy

[livid raven]

ah no, you misunderstand

[jaunty coral]

now im top of the damage boards in havoc

and im the last alive clutching all the time

why? bc i have insane mobility

[livid raven]

i think it deserves negative reviews on principle, to keep fatshark on their toes

[jaunty coral]

the class is busted

people were just bad

[lavish bronze]

Yup

[jaunty coral]

well, kinda fuck you

i want this game to succeed

and i want it to get the good reviews it deserves

[livid raven]

why are you acting all this offended like i shot your mother

[lavish bronze]

People were expecting broken class with insane durability

[jaunty coral]

im not a perpetually salty gamer who holds every little thing against the dev team

[upbeat gyro]

For it to succeed, constructive criticism in places warranted is also needed

[livid raven]

you seem pretty salty to me

[lavish bronze]

They got stupid damage at the price of knowing basics of the game

[livid raven]

you have been aggressive the last 20 messages

[upbeat gyro]

Stimm withdrawals..

[spark gyro]

I will shit your collective pants

[livid raven]

what if i wear a scottish kilt

[lavish bronze]

Darktide got some hd2 refugees a while back.

[spark gyro]

I will bring a sheep and distract you for 5 minutes while I look for your pants

[jaunty coral]

bc its a nasty mindset. "i want this game to get bad reviews to keep the dev team on their toes"
How about they deserve a good review for an amazing class, and not perma mixed bc it needed balancing on launch which is such not a big deal lol. Why do you not want this game to succeed?

I had a friend who just got the game, and hes really enjoying it. He almost didnt buy it on sale when he saw hive scum review score, bc he thought "is the game not doing well? this is their new content"

[lavish bronze]

It was fun seeing them bitch about everything

[livid raven]

nah they still have a premium shop in their full price game with 20 bucks skins

i think i'll pass on that

[jaunty coral]

game is fun, but my god does it get repetitive, and the people who play it are so toxic. I never understood that community

[lavish bronze]

Hah

[jaunty coral]

who cares. I buy almost everyt cosmetic (that i like) Ive spent easily $500 over 3 years

support the devs

[lavish bronze]

Have you seen tarkov community?

[livid raven]

lol

[lavish bronze]

Like

[spark gyro]

I have been felt tempted to leave negative reviews on every Darktide-related thing that I own purely out of spite for the FOMO shop followed by paid classes

[jaunty coral]

i AM the tarkov community. 3 time kappa earner, and hit lvl 50+ many more times, been playing tarkov since 2019. But not recently, i got into arc raiders

[lavish bronze]

Some games are arguably better experienced when you cut out the community

[livid raven]

actually

[lavish bronze]

Bought base game and pve having a blast

[livid raven]

i should check if i left a negative review on arbites already

[spark gyro]

Dare I say, a FOMO shop followed by paid classes on a game I already paid for

[upbeat gyro]

I have never made cosmetic purchase yet in the shop, and i got 500 spare free aquilas there (could get like, 400 scarf?)

[lavish bronze]

And according to some people you should start calling me slurs for playing pve mamox

[eager reef]

If you like a cosmetic buy it, if you dont like it dont buy it. That is how you should treat micro-transactions. Things to complain about would be fomo and pricing not them existing at all imo

[upbeat gyro]

But the current 5eur deal is kinda tempting ngl, maybe if they add something rad in near future shop rotations

[lavish bronze]

Pay the 5 eur

Aquilas dont expire

[jaunty coral]

this game has always been better WITH community. But the last few times ive come here there have been some new faces who have rubbed me wrong.

Had a guy argue with me a couple months ago about how %'s work and basic math, who was so dead wrong it was sad. But insisted he was right while posting nonsense math and giving peopel bad advice.

This place used to be filled with good players like Ainz giving good advice and others (ainz is still here, hes great) and its been a more mixed bag the last year or so

[upbeat gyro]

Will the 5eur deal expire though?

[spark gyro]

I would be a lot finer with Fatshark if I didn't have some predatory monetization system on cosmetics, of all things, which then used to be excused with "the devs need money to give us free content", only for them to release paid content to us anyway

[lavish bronze]

Possible

[spark gyro]

Whoever at Fatshark is responsible for that decision can kiss a chair

Well, the chair is doing the kissing, specifically

[jaunty coral]

i do wish they would remove fomo from the shop and just offer everything

i would agree one that

but whining about classes being paid is laughable

[spark gyro]

I would love to buy some cool stuff if I just had access to the bloody things I want to pay money for

[lavish bronze]

Theres few people here giving in a lot of work to give correct info. Then some people come in with mr.e or tanner builds/info and spew bullshit

[muted heath]

does anyone know the min max devil claw build for hivescum?

[jaunty coral]

and the prices for skins are fine/comparable to other games, IMO. I do wish they would release skins with less clipping issues, but its also not a huge deal. I think the cosmetic 'game' darktide has is pretty damn good, and i really enjoy the amount of outfits and looks

[lavish bronze]

Mk4 or.mk7 flak maniac shred wrath

[livid raven]

the outfits that often recycle whole models from other skins

[vapid jungle]

The game is deserving of negative reviews.

[muted heath]

how do people min max the parry damage?

[spark gyro]

The Fatshark Classic: grab old outfit, add hat, rebundle and triple the price

[livid raven]

how about two almost identically weapon skins (one is ever so slightly darker)

[vapid jungle]

The launch state was a joke.

[lavish bronze]

On devil claw its dependent on attacks damage. Not really much you can do about it to my knowledge

[spark gyro]

I'm still salty about that psyker outfit that was chest and pants for like 800 aquilas, and now it's got a hat and the pants alone are more expensive than the original bundle was

[jaunty coral]

ill be honest, i dont think Mr E/tanner builds are defacto bad, some of them are quite fine/ok. Some of their opinions are bad.
We need darktide content creators and while i dont like tanner, Mr E is fine. Builds for casuals is fine, and their builds ARE used in h40 when they play. Its not the worst

for my new friends who dont know whats up, ill give them a build from a creator like this just to get them started often

[muted heath]

I saw in a reginald vide he killed a havoc 40 chaos spawn in like 7 seconds with just parry.

[lavish bronze]

Mr.e has really bad rep with ogryns

[upbeat gyro]

This game is in pretty good place, i left early 2024 and its really lot better now

[lavish bronze]

Thats just the parry damage

[spark gyro]

Parry enjoyers

[lavish bronze]

Only plus strength buffs parry

[jaunty coral]

i havent watched any of his ogryn stuff, tbh
his melee psyker build was fine i looked at recently

[upbeat gyro]

Sure, cosmetics are moneygrab, but they dont affect the gameplay so if you feel like supporting some more

[livid raven]

how about getting some free cosmetics that aren't also reskins uh

[pallid quail]

i actually play better with my leopard skin pants

[livid raven]

i remember when games had those

[spark gyro]

Cosmetic rotation is artificial scarcity

[lavish bronze]

He does not understand the class at all

Like

[spark gyro]

Digital items like that don't need to be manufactured

There's no logistics, nothing

[upbeat gyro]

Ive been suggesting more grindy penances for those, to keep incentive for grinding beyond the first class penance cosmetics

[lavish bronze]

Too low cara damage on some weapons and low mobility are his main complaints

[upbeat gyro]

Even recolors and slight adjustments would work

[lavish bronze]

Like DUH 600kg monster aint gonna be moving fast

[lavish bronze]

Dont watch his ogryn stuff. You will get anuerysm if you know anything about ogryn

[livid raven]

ehrm

glass cannon without the cannon

[tranquil berry]

I don't see why that's a logic people hang on to. An elephant can easily outrun a human. Why do you assume big is slow?

[pallid quail]

bAlAnCe

[tranquil berry]

Yeah, but I know for a fact you're wearing leopard print IRL so it helps you relate better

[pallid quail]

so trv

[vapid jungle]

Im fine with slow oggy but he definitely needed the knockdown effect on dodge.

[pallid quail]

lol ppl act like thats so op but then lose their minds when i suggest ogryn getting dodge time like everyone else

[lilac ermine]

Ogryn got so many buffs when they werent even weak

[pallid quail]

ppl just want ogryn to be bad

[jaunty coral]

haha, its my least played class but im still lvl 150.
got any examples out of curiosity? Like what has he said thats blatently wrong? I would love to become a better ogryn.
My new buddy just started the game as ogryn and im trying to push him into auric, and as soon as we pass normal damnation he's constantly on the floor (often in damnation too) trying to teach him the fundementals but hes strugglign vs gunners, hes starting to figure out the slide/slide dodge tho

[tranquil berry]

They added knock down on sprint in mortis on a modifier. Ogryn needs that on by default

[lilac ermine]

He need to practice sliding constanly

[livid raven]

do people really go colossus in mortis

[pallid quail]

lol just have pulverize built into his movement

[tranquil berry]

Colossus should be default ogryn

[jaunty coral]

I told him, and he's watched me clutch a few times and is starting to get it.
But idk whats missing, im wondering if he'll ever be H40 ready lol its not clicking for him as fast as I would like, but I may be underestimating how many hours it takes.

[vapid jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-hes-right-you-know-correct-true-right-gif-27174315

[lilac ermine]

Sliding constantly looks so dum so maybe thats why he doesnt do it

[upbeat gyro]

I have this silly looking tiger t-shirt and it almost gives me like +5m when i go frisbee golfing

[lilac ermine]

They should nerf sliding to have delay like bf

[pallid quail]

idk i slide constantly

[tranquil berry]

Darktide devolving into spam dodge and left click doesn't sound appealing

[lilac ermine]

Ppl be sliding every where like the floor is slippery

[pallid quail]

it is tho

all that heretic filth

[tranquil berry]

We need a mod that adds that banana peel slip reverse whistle sound effect from looney toons to every slide

[livid raven]

5% chance to slip and be stunned for 2 seconds everytime you slide

[lilac ermine]

Theres mod to change game sound but idk if it include the slide

[tranquil berry]

Swap the battle music with the benny hill theme song to match the constant h40 kiting

And we have the true darktide clown show gameplay experience

[vapid jungle]

Medpacs have a 1% chance to explode and kill the first person to step on it.

Should have played around it

[lilac ermine]

Is arb the most shellfish class

[main trellis]

Maybe they should nerf you

[pallid quail]

[main trellis]

Shell fish? Wdym

[lilac ermine]

Without the h

[main trellis]

Then no; he ain’t

[pallid quail]

https://tenor.com/view/youve-got-to-be-squidding-me-its-as-shrimple-as-that-shrimple-squid-gif-26786461

[main trellis]

Altho; shellfish fits cause plateface & all that

[unique spire]

Didn't knew Arbites sold fish

[lilac ermine]

Who is most shellfish class

[unique spire]

Knife Zealot

[pallid quail]

lol yeaj

that or scum

[main trellis]

Hes like that one guy from asterix & obelix who sells & fights with a fish everytime someone says his fish stink

[pallid quail]

great for clutching. utterly useless at preventing situations that require clutching

[unique spire]

Scum gets punished quickly since he can't go invisible and make all the enemies rush to their teammates

[lilac ermine]

In my games the arbites has gas mask while all of us is choking to death

[restive frost]

watchin a knife zealot run around knifin everything not killin a single enemy fr

[lilac ermine]

And doesnt share

[main trellis]

Poor choice

[main trellis]

Don’t fight in the gas…

[unique spire]

Lawful fish, sold on the highest of the hivecities

[lilac ermine]

Hive scum can stop situations that need clutching just by killing all the shooter with desperado or killing all crusher with rampage

[main trellis]

Seek better position & kill the head lobbers

[vapid jungle]

A good knife zealot clears the map tho

[lilac ermine]

Pox gas map mode

I dont know the safe spots

[main trellis]

Learn the pox gas layout & traverse accordingly

Its not hard

[lilac ermine]

But thats needs memory

[main trellis]

Learn them

[unique spire]

Just don't stand in the gas dude

[restive frost]

adrenaline frenzy w stoked rage and adrenaline unbound is pretty good btw

[lilac ermine]

I ran out of memory already

[restive frost]

[lilac ermine]

Its everywhere

[main trellis]

Map?

[restive frost]

oh yea psyker in mortis trials is so ass

no good upgrades

[unique spire]

Go out of bounce

[restive frost]

lmao

[unique spire]

Duh

[lilac ermine]

The map with city and satellite at end

[tranquil berry]

I've never played a public pox gas game where my team seems to be aware that there even IS gas. Everyone just fights in the gas like it's not there

[pallid quail]

ew comms plex 🤮

[lilac ermine]

In some parts theres no safe spots I dont feel like

[tranquil berry]

There are always safe spots

[lilac ermine]

Is there pic that shows all safe spot every map

[unique spire]

You could also play as Arbites and use that perk that makes you take 75% less damage from gas

[tranquil berry]

No, there's experience

[muted heath]

is it just me or is swift endurance is not picking up curio stamina anymore. I have 9 stamina from curios and it is giving only 12 stacks with my knives (exclusive new knives 60% mobility)

[lilac ermine]

Arbites cost moners

[pallid quail]

unless ur on refinery lol

[unique spire]

You don't have arbitrator?

Poorzer

[lilac ermine]

Yh

[pallid quail]

[unique spire]

Everyone got arbitrator

[tranquil berry]

Keep running till you find some place that's less smelly

[lilac ermine]

Why was he free

[tranquil berry]

Or move out of Cleveland

[unique spire]

No because he is cheap

[pallid quail]

ill run all the way to the leave mission button n q for something better

[tranquil berry]

That's the right move

[pallid quail]

[lilac ermine]

He would be my whole bank

[tranquil berry]

Use the queue menu to find the safe zone

[unique spire]

8 dollars?

[tranquil berry]

Just sell your body on the streets for that arbitrator money.

It's the right thing to do

[lilac ermine]

11.99

[upbeat gyro]

Discount still going afaik

[tranquil berry]

What I do behind the dumpster in the alley buys me darktide classes!

[upbeat gyro]

Also how is arbi bad at preveting bad situations? BTL staggers groups and puts electronade in some door to stop em all?

[unique spire]

How much is to sell a kidney

[leaden fable]

At least 3.99

[tranquil berry]

Depending on age about $1500

[lilac ermine]

Everytime I go over 10 dollars they take my money

[unique spire]

Humans don't need kidneys and they are charging allat for it?

Damn

[tranquil berry]

If it's a really good kidney though, we might just take both and leave you in the motel room

[upbeat gyro]

You can get unethical prisoner kidneys from TEMU for cheaper

[unique spire]

They who

The bank?

[lilac ermine]

Cause they dont do carapce and boss dmg

[bronze glade]

arbi does a shit ton of carapace damage

[tranquil berry]

I wanna know if there's a sustainable, organic environmental black market organ farmer's market

[bronze glade]

the boss damage is less stupid

[lilac ermine]

How many

[bronze glade]

but still plenty workable

[bronze glade]

a lot

[spark gyro]

I will annihilate you

[tranquil berry]

Sell that whole foods kidney for arby

[bronze glade]

many carapace damag

[upbeat gyro]

Would Vraks help with arbi boss dmg? Contemplating on it

[lilac ermine]

Because veteran one shots carapace

[main trellis]

Ah; baross

[lilac ermine]

With kraks

[spark gyro]

Arby has some of the silliest carapace damage for nearly zero effort

[bronze glade]

yeah, honestly most of the shotguns are quite good for boss damage too

[main trellis]

Pox gas makes that map difficult ngl; still doable

[limber cradle]

Arby? Zero effort? Perish the thought.

[unique spire]

Swinging square mace with a shield is very tiresome thank you

[lilac ermine]

If they cant one shot like hive scum and vet then its not many damage

[main trellis]

Cshotties have nice unyielding dmg

[bronze glade]

the exterms have good unyielding damage too

and shistol

it's only DB that suffers

[upbeat gyro]

ASM, and then there are rending nodes

[unique spire]

If your class doesn't instakill bosses and crushers, it fucking sucks

[spark gyro]

Arby players mashing left click and the elite crowd immediately perishing

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779196945448304640/1364708570355990538/togif.gif

[main trellis]

If you don’t take tinkered you can’t

In havoc atleast

[lilac ermine]

Im tinkered

[main trellis]

I can tell

[spark gyro]

I didn't even know arby maul had light sweeps until I checked the table, because they all just seem to do 40 billion damage

[astral canyon]

arby players mashing potatoes

[spark gyro]

I legit thought everything was strike at some point

Arby is legit a great class to play

[main trellis]

Arby mash with Zealot ribs & psyker peas with a side of vetnade and for desert; scumtart

[spark gyro]

Knockdown dash, impact grenade, arby maul, super toughness regen, big CC

[astral canyon]

big if true

[lilac ermine]

Since hive scum box is worst ability than the rest perhap it needs a buff

Im thinking yellow toughness while its active

[spark gyro]

So true

[main trellis]

Forgot about ogryn…
Its that forgetable…
I guess its the plates & utensils

[astral canyon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/964267145678716991/1294415454730846262/togif.gif?width=717&height=999

[main trellis]

Cat is such a mischevious & trolly creature

Its funny

[astral canyon]

the only buff i want for crate is for fast acting to be part of the base ability

[unique spire]

His royal drip turned that guy into ashes

[upbeat gyro]

Crate chemplosion needs to be instant on deployment too to make that one talent more useful

Hivescum needs golen variant of that scalped headplate

[tender forge]

Also make it do 31 stacks of chem toxin

Or could settle for 15 bleed stacks and 15 chem toxin stacks

[nova valley]

Oh alright, now I get it's comment

[nova valley]

Oh yeah!

[nova valley]

Oh no!

[limber cradle]

I'm ngl

I only use the .45s now

Idk if they're good

But they're very fun and very stylish

[main trellis]

*16; thats the general gap

[vapid jungle]

Sniping snoopers cross map feels noice

[limber cradle]

Yeah it does

[astral canyon]

true

doesnt matter what youre sniping with

spinshots, revolver quickdraws, knives, etc

[restive frost]

lmao

everyone ingame crashed

weird

[limber cradle]

Havoc?

Cranial modifier?

[restive frost]

no was just doing heresy with sum newbie i helping lvl

[limber cradle]

Idk then

[restive frost]

yea were like no enemies too

[candid flint]

thank you for not lying

fuck, so rare to see these days. an honest person

big of you bro, ty. big ups

[stray spear]

Hey I just wanted to ask a bit about Hivescum in havocs. I finally maxed mine out to 30 after been focused on Zealot and Psyker climbing to Havoc 30

And I'm still trying to get a feel for hive scum's potential because I've been for example playing fatmangus zealot build as I quite enjoy durability/clutch potential in a build, and Hive scum strikes me as high on the end of spectrum in regards to high impact output, but would it be fair to call them generally fragile?

Or is there clever combination of talents or style that really inflates your durability?

[limber cradle]

Ime scum isn't fragile

[stray spear]

Fair, I'm also bit stilted because I've played rather tanky zealots

[limber cradle]

Depends on what you want to do ig

I mean fatmangus is a brain off build

Its not gonna compare to that

I don't think it's fair to compare anything to that in terms of mistake forgiveness

Including arb

[stray spear]

Certainly, I've been switching off some of that build because I still want to keep pushing to improve by not letting myself get hit in the first place.

I guess main thing is I always enjoy melee emphasis. Part of why I graviated so much to relic blades, force greatsword and stuff is because I enjoy having the capacity to dealing with any problem if they're within melee range.

Perhaps not amazingly but there isn't a moment of 'Oh god I can't fight this mauler, or rager, my weapon is completely garbage against this.'

[limber cradle]

Uh

I kill ragers and maulers without thinking about it

[zenith fern]

[limber cradle]

Borderline on accident

With tac axe rampage

[stray spear]

The shivs does seem to be very good all rounder weapons.

[limber cradle]

They're stupidly good

[stray spear]

Yeah I've played with that meme 'blender' build a little bit

I love the killfeed when I activate stim and rampage in front of groups of gunners

THough actually it was always hard for me to tell, is spamming lights with shitload of crit better for boss damage with absurd swing speed, or is spam heavy at weakspot always superior with shivs? Or is it dependant on buffs/stim?

[limber cradle]

Ime

Spam lights for crowds

Use heavies for single target(bosses)

You can also take a needle pistol, mag dump it into a boss

And just

Let it die

Cause that's a zero investment gun that does way too much damage

[dim moth]

same with shiv stimm supply

by the time I acknowledge the rager is there while spamming lights and think to throw a knife to speed his death along he's already dead

poor boy

[limber cradle]

I believe that, I don't use stim supply willingly tho

[stray spear]

Yeah I would not be surprised if shiv and needle gun got hit with hefty nerfs

Because I'm just trying to think of "Why would I never use this weapon if it was available on all classes whenever I wanted a low maintenance elite killer."

[limber cradle]

I doubt shivs will

Tox might

[stray spear]

The theoretical trade-off of "The target doesn't immediately die" is moot as I found they tend to stagger or that you can easily evade like 3-6 seconds for them to drop dead.

So there isn't really anything that the needle feels bad at that I go, "Damn I need to change to something else" in that category of "weapons to kill elites or specialists or hurt monsters"

[limber cradle]

Oh nah you can just spam needle

[vapid jungle]

How are you guys utilizing shiv special?

[limber cradle]

Its not the most effecient thing ever

[limber cradle]

I throw it at things

[astral canyon]

I press weapon special key

[lilac ermine]

When is needle staggering them

[dim moth]

I like having a fully packed stimm available every 20 seconds

that's a good enough ability for me

[limber cradle]

It's good, it's also boring

[dim moth]

and hey my dork ass teammates can walk into it and temporarily experience competence

[limber cradle]

Its the same reason I do not use needler

Its good

But it's boring

[stray spear]

When I hit them in the head they stagger a bit from the needle, then seem to pause for few moments before moving

Which then they collapse from the generous amount of narcotics in their system.

[limber cradle]

Using box for blight and needler for rot armor genuinely got me to stop playing DT again

[pulsar aspen]

I can see why.

[lilac ermine]

When I shoot trapper in head with it they still fire so idk if they dont get staggered by it

[pulsar aspen]

If they still fire, they did not get sufficiently staggered.

[limber cradle]

I get on, play auric maels sometimes

But uh, I haven't consistently played DT since havoc rotated back into being a loadout check

[stray spear]

Chem bombs are effective at dealing with rotten armor yeah? Since they don't get affected by dots right?

[limber cradle]

And now you can't even play havoc cause it crashes the game

[pulsar aspen]

They are effective, but Rockets are better.

[limber cradle]

Theyre very affected by dots

[stray spear]

Sorry rather-

[limber cradle]

Dots are one of the only things that affect RA well

[stray spear]

The rotten armor don't resist dots, I misspoke

Making it very effective to use fire or chem dots, or bleeds yeah?

[limber cradle]

Rockets+the perk that applies 3 tox stacks with nades one shot H40 RA patrols

[stray spear]

Ah, is chem bombs not used over rockets for rotten armor?

[pulsar aspen]

It's just that the Chem Toxins have a 0,9 ADM against Carapace, which is .. way too much.

[limber cradle]

I prefer the rocket, personally

[stray spear]

Rockets strikes me as 'amazing nuke' but chem bombs seems to situationally be able to kill way and last longer, but lacks the line-breaker potential of rocket.

So it's more or less tradeoffs. I was just asking about pure killing aspects of it

[limber cradle]

Rocket is like having 3 ogryn nukes

Idk what to tell you

[stray spear]

Rockets are kickass, I've just been in few loadouts where it went, "We have arbites with linebreak, or ogryn with charge, or some way of disrupting formation, and I'd want a toolkit to kill as much rotten armor as physically possible, is chem grenade better than rocket for that instance?"

[limber cradle]

No

They aren't

Cause rockets will one shot the entire patrol

[pulsar aspen]

No, they aren't.

[limber cradle]

Not stagger it, not chem it to death

[stray spear]

Interesting, good to know, I just saw some chem grenades in auric maelstorm that killed upwards of like... 60 crushers/maulers during the only-melee modifiers

[spark gyro]

Chem grenade is for when you wanna lock down an area against most stuff

[pulsar aspen]

Yeah because Auric is Auric

[spark gyro]

Rocket is for when you wanna wipe an area of the big stuff that chem doesn't deal with

[stray spear]

So I was wondering if that effectiveness is still found in havoc still.

[lilac ermine]

Both is good in havoc

[pulsar aspen]

When you want to lock down an area against most stuff, you'd get an Arbitrator Shock Mine.

[zenith fern]

it does take longer time to kill crushers

But almost anything else it will melt very fast

[stray spear]

Yup! it takes more investment, set up and spawn patterns, rockets are immediate 'i want this blob to stop existing'

but there's been prolonged fights in choke points where I thought "Damn I wonder if chem grenades would pay for themselves opportunity cost wise against rotten armor swarms despite missing out on immediate oneshot potential."

[pulsar aspen]

No, they wouldn't.

[stray spear]

Good to know!

[limber cradle]

Rockets are possibly the strongest blitz in game

The literal only downside is not having regen(which they should not have)

[zenith fern]

still funny asf how they just decided to crank the RPG to an eleven

[stray spear]

Yeah I remember that

I went like "Damn this is feeling strong"

[zenith fern]

pre-buff RPG was okay

[limber cradle]

Id understand it if the rocket got damaged buffed or got 1 more use but both at once is nuts

[stray spear]

And then I saw they like hella buffed it, and went "Oh damn this is now fucking juiced."

[zenith fern]

But current RPG is so busted and on top of adding an extra rocket makes it more stupid

[lilac ermine]

Rocket ok but black outs better

[zenith fern]

2 rockets was fine

[stray spear]

And you can get extra from a talent.

[zenith fern]

true

[stray spear]

So 4 rockets

[limber cradle]

Every scum nade is good

Every one is respectively the best at what they do

[lilac ermine]

One black out kills whole armor horde

[limber cradle]

Whether it's immediate space opener

Rocket nuking things

Or pool being area denial

[stray spear]

Hive scum struck me as "This thing gets priority on every single grenade pickups"

[limber cradle]

There's no wrong choice tbh

[stray spear]

At least for the rocket and chem grenade

[zenith fern]

scrappers got the bigger nuke

[stray spear]

I'm throwing a hivescum over the railings if they refill blinds off grenade refills, which I'm actually not sure if they can do actually.

[zenith fern]

blinders can be refilled with pickups

[lilac ermine]

I do sometimes

😇

[stray spear]

Back to the warp with yee, demonspawn

[lilac ermine]

My team is full on grenades

[zenith fern]

i only do when teamamtes that dont have nades or dead

[stray spear]

Yeah obviously use cases for it, just being silly.

I sometimes as zealot just go "I will have fire grenades and boltgun" but then I see hivescum show up on havoc team and I switch to knives and flamer or whatever else depending on team so I can give them the grenade refills.

[lilac ermine]

Psyker is still more op then high scum

[stray spear]

Funnily enough I see lot more zealots and hivescum than psykers tbh in havoc

[zenith fern]

not so OP if I barrel them off the map

[lilac ermine]

Psykers is in demand everyone claims them

Hive scum kicked from party

[stray spear]

Haven’t gotten that vibe surprisingly yet

Is there just a particular psyker meta build or something especially popular

Or more about psyker just extremely good opportunity cost wise in lot of roles

[lilac ermine]

Its psykers bubble and fire staff

Or trauma

[stray spear]

Fire staff just really good at horde clear and stuff or?

I don’t doubt they’re OP for the record just sorta trying to gauge why, since their rework. Or if there’s specific component of it

[lilac ermine]

Keep new ppl alive

Unlimited cleave

Kills every enemy except bosses rlly bc it has rending on it

[zenith fern]

everything*

[lilac ermine]

Maybe ill go stimless hive scum so I can heal

[tropic crag]

if the player is good you can also do crazy work with scriers gaze and a few different melee weapons

[river drift]

Has the Hive Scum been paying his Tithe?

[pulsar aspen]

@stray spear Immolation Grenades are probably the worst Blitz in the game, the damage is.. pathetic.

[tropic crag]

they're too busy paying the cartels probably lol

[river drift]

Hmm.. The Arbitrator chat shall hear of this..

[tropic crag]

they're too busy struggling to take care of the cartels

[stray spear]

Fair, I just mostly use it to filter out chaff since I have a small problem with my hand that makes knives (until I reconfigure buttons) throwing as a hotkey unhealthy for my hand on a super consistent basis.

[river drift]

Payment is due smh.

[stray spear]

So I haven't really integrated it well into my builds

[pulsar aspen]

@stray spear Filtering out chaff is not the problem and there are far better tools for that than waste a grenade on it

[stray spear]

I specifically only take it if we have nobody that uses grenade pickups on the team!

[tropic crag]

i like fire nades because they soften targets enough to make any fight easy but still let me fight things

[pulsar aspen]

Even then, you might as well take Stun Grenades, which are far superior.

[stray spear]

I very specifically put myself at end of the list of pickup priority haha. It's not optimal but it's comfortable.

[keen timber]

inferno will kill everything that isn't crushers pretty effectively, and it Can be made to do decent crusher damage

with an uncanny melee

[stray spear]

Also was a melee psyker with forcegreatsword, but I switched to zealot to make sure I don't get too reliant on Psyker's being busted good haha

[manic wolf]

Zealot is more fun to play than Psyker anyway

[keen timber]

Personally i avoid accepting psyker players because they're usually far worse than an equivalent CL player

[stray spear]

I actually am not certain how good melee psyker greatsword scales in havoc, one benefit of playing relic blade zealot is bit more utility with team in form of shroud pickups, beacon of purity or etc.

[tropic crag]

yeah alot of psykers use it as a crutch a bit too hard so they can't be relied on

[keen timber]

average psyker has 3 poxwalkers actually get near them and just die

[stray spear]

Yeah I have slight hesitation to accept arbites in lot of situation because I still remember their first release in havoc

WHen there was so much arbites everywhere that actually gets wiped out by bosses because surprise, being almost immortal isn't that good if you can't actually pick up allies with captains in your ass, or kill them in timely fashion.

[lilac ermine]

Arbites is most shellfish class

[stray spear]

But I've definteily warmed up because I've seen one or two arbities clutch out often where arbites and I (usually as zealot) is last one up

And I just dump aggro to the arbities and they run in the opposite direction of the allies pick up while I run over to get allies respawn without interruption of bosses

[lilac ermine]

Everyone always dies before them bc theres an arbites on the team

[keen timber]

arbite is generally okay now

[stray spear]

Yeah I've been playing more fragile classes on and off to make sure that I don't get too lazy with beefy/durable classes

[keen timber]

I don't really like them, their damage is fairly low comparitively, but they're fine

[manic wolf]

Who knew having almost infinite sustain is kinda stronk

Arb is just Ogryn, but man-sized instead of tank-sized

[lilac ermine]

Nerf arbites

[stray spear]

Arbites value often for me comes from stagger/bodyguarding a little bit, having bunch of ragers get knocked down by arbites which prevents the team's psyker from going down instantly because they didn't pay attention.

[tropic crag]

honestly i feel like the least tanky class is ogryn (but only against ranged shred)

[keen timber]

arbite has use, they have a lot of stagger and CC and they frontline well

[lilac ermine]

Veteran is least tanky no mobility or cc rlly

[keen timber]

vet isn't tanky

[stray spear]

Definitely only have shout as meaningful tool to break up aggression

[keen timber]

the humble vet regenerating 80% toughness a second:

[lilac ermine]

Only have shout

[manic wolf]

Isnt Veteran functionally immortal during Exe at this point...

[tropic crag]

i was going to say that until i remembered they have infinite grenades and shout (and can dodge ranged attacks all day)

[keen timber]

yep.

[lilac ermine]

Most vet carry the krakkers

[keen timber]

vet isnt tanky mfs when confirmed kill:

[lilac ermine]

So it wont save them from being rushed by ragers and maulas

[candid flint]

shout + whatever ability gives idk 70% dr when above 75% toughness

[keen timber]

that's what a melee weapon is for

[candid flint]

plus duelingsword, which most tryhards run

has plenty of mobility

[tropic crag]

they can shout and just face tank those, and even do ok without shout tbh

[lilac ermine]

Vet only gets damage resist when above 75% toughness

And when theyre with team

[candid flint]

vet is not squishy, unless built stupid. even with exe stance. not squishy at all

[stray spear]

Here's an interesting qeuestion, which classes do you all think has the highest clutch/sole survivor potential to turn around bad situations?

[lilac ermine]

So if they are away from team and below 75% they have no DR

[stray spear]

And which one is the worst.

[brittle sierra]

I think you are severely overthinking this

[stray spear]

(Player skill plays huge part in this obviously)

[tropic crag]

being tanky in melee literally doesn't matter in this game... like everyone can melee anything, its all about how tanky you are when you're caught with your pants down and are being shot by a swarm and have no sources of toughness nearby

[lilac ermine]

Tru

[candid flint]

zealot

[keen timber]

believe it or not, when u regenerate toughness like vet can, u dont NEED damage reduction

[manic wolf]

Zealot probably for best at clutching, Psyker worst, at least on average

[candid flint]

wrong reply

[candid flint]

zealot

[lilac ermine]

Zealots is like most tanky

[stray spear]

I'm sharing my overall experiences with Arbites when I have one on the team!

[lilac ermine]

Oh nvm thats arbiter

[keen timber]

no it isnt

[tropic crag]

no joke i think the player matters 10000% more. Because its more about how well they can read the situation and how good they are at taking back control of the situation

[keen timber]

it's fatmangus

lol

[pulsar aspen]

Arbitrator.

[brittle sierra]

No I mean how the roles of classes function in this game

[stray spear]

Yeah all roles can be inverted or changed based on build, Arbites value I just find is lot more subtle because it's easy to cheer for hivescum when they wipe out 50 maulers with a rocket launcher.

[pulsar aspen]

The organization/institution is called Adeptus Arbites, a singular member is an Arbitrator.

[manic wolf]

This is true, but being objective in regards to what classes are good at still plays its part. Ofc it matter a lot less if the player is a god, but just from the numbers standpoint Zealot is winning

[brittle sierra]

Again you are overcomplicating it

[lilac ermine]

Arbiter is good at getting your whole team killed by how pathetic their damage is

[tropic crag]

I think scum and pysker are nearly on par tho simply because all 3 can handle mixed nonsense really well on most builds

[brittle sierra]

What matters is what kind of enemies the class can deal with easily and what kinds they have more trouble with

That's it, at the fundamental level

[pulsar aspen]

What matters is what a class can contribute to the team they find themselves in.

[candid flint]

wat

[lilac ermine]

They do no damage rlly

[candid flint]

tell me you dont play darktide without telling me you dont play darktide

[pulsar aspen]

What do you base this on?

[stray spear]

Right, I don't think we disagree at all haha, I'm just stating how I often feel arbites contribute to the team and in what fashion when I played with one before. If you think that's overcomplicated, I don't know what to tell you!

[mighty belfry]

They do damage.

[tropic crag]

lone wolf/arby maul does more than enough damage to clear things tbh

[keen timber]

I mean, I think they're one of the lower damage classes on the spectrum, but it isn't that low

[lilac ermine]

All the haboc games

[keen timber]

thjey aren't some MMO tank or something

doing nothing

[mighty belfry]

The one weakness arbitrator really has in terms of damage is boss damage and even then, it's not like they can't damage bosses at all.

[keen timber]

exe order does solid damage

[keen timber]

the humble combat shotgun:

[pulsar aspen]

If you want to somehow make a comparison to their damage and the damage of a Psyker/GunScum, no. They will never be able to compete with that and they don't have to either.

[manic wolf]

I dunno, Scum is a weird edge case, at least personally I find it easier to clutch with Scum over Vet and Psyker, but thats anecdotal evidence I suppose. The mobility assets on some maps are just such a huge benifit an something other classes don't really have access to. That being said it can be as punishing as Psyker if you fuck up, its just uhh, harder to fuck up

[keen timber]

The one weakness arbite has is that people keep taking the arbite exclusive shotguns instead of combat shotguns when both guns have the same breakpoints, and one has twice the ammo and fire rate

[lilac ermine]

They never have most elite kill or special kill or most damage

Or boss damage

[pulsar aspen]

Why does that matter?

[tropic crag]

the shot pistol is the only ranged weapon i use on arby because its just a super comfy sidearm and you can use it to sneak more boss damage if you really need to on a break the line build

[mighty belfry]

What kind of arbitrators are you even playing with?

[pulsar aspen]

If you make it through the mission in a way you are comfortable with, what do individual kills matter?

[keen timber]

that's...not their job?

Like

no shit

[lilac ermine]

It means there just staying alive and getting carryed

[keen timber]

they aren't going to outboss a zealot

they aren't going to outhordeclear a psyker

they arent going to out-snipe a vet

[manic wolf]

Yer, Arb's strength is in control of the fight, not in raw DPS

[keen timber]

but they'll stand in front of u and beat the daylight out everything

yeah

[pulsar aspen]

If we go down that rabbit hole, might as well just go with 4 Psykers then.

[tropic crag]

thats more the players who tend to flock towards arby than a statement about arby tbh, and i would stop staring at stats because it leads to things like this. If you didn't look at the stats you'd not be building a grudge up against arbys on your own lol

[mighty belfry]

Arbitrator's niche is being s fight stabilizer.

[pulsar aspen]

I am curious how that will go against Rotten Armour spam.

[mighty belfry]

And they're quite good at it.

[stray spear]

Arbites is kinda like Ogryn in terms of being team anchor

[tropic crag]

they can do it like 10 times a min man, its kind of silly how you can just... dictate the map on arby

[manic wolf]

I thought we was playing Darktide, not dominoes?

[lilac ermine]

Yh they always do like no damage maybe like 100k vs 1 million

[keen timber]

no arby is gonna be doing this

[pulsar aspen]

@manic wolf (that's the point)

@keen timber They do not need to do something like that either, they simply lack the tools for that.

[lilac ermine]

Howw

Is that mod

[keen timber]

wat

what's a mod

[tropic crag]

they probably aren't staring at a stat screen and are more focused on just doing whats needed to win the game. If you think that you need a stat screen to spot the carry or good players then you aren't good enough to understand what the stats mean tbh

[stray spear]

Backstab with relic blade and shroud is very, very easy to do on Beast of Nurgle oneshot.

Part of why I enjoyed playing zealot so much recently

[mighty belfry]

Being a good teammates doesn't always mean doing the most damage.

[tropic crag]

lol someones gotta do the boring jobs sometimes

[lilac ermine]

I dont need stat when your good enough you can feel how good your team is or not

[keen timber]

i mean it wasn't a oneshot it was only about 50k

that's not hav40 either, only like 33

[candid flint]

alls oyuve been talking about is stats

[keen timber]

my build doesn't have enough backstab damage

[pulsar aspen]

https://tenor.com/bpGHG.gif

[lilac ermine]

Bc its only way to prove it to ppl

[mighty belfry]

You're the one who mentioned stats.

[stray spear]

Valid!

[lilac ermine]

You cant just say your better with no proof

[tropic crag]

honestly? the real secret is that once you're good enough you stop caring totally because you start to outpace the game... thats kind of the joke... once you get good enough you can actually judge others you stop really having reasons to judge people

[pulsar aspen]

And you think stats show that you are better?

[mighty belfry]

It's not about being better though lmao

[pulsar aspen]

Stats, exclusively?

[keen timber]

it's pretty easy to do the big hits on plogryns too

praise be to headshot priority

[lilac ermine]

Yes

[tropic crag]

green circles man

[manic wolf]

Game sense and being able to hit the most things arent the same thing

[tropic crag]

we'll never escape the green circles

[mighty belfry]

That's an extremely flawed way of looking at things if I'll be honest.

[final temple]

chasing green circles = not making friends

[pulsar aspen]

I tried to avoid saying that, but that is what it feels like, isn't it.

[lilac ermine]

If im playing val and I go 25-0 then im better then ppl who are going 0-25

[keen timber]

yep, it also ignores where builds are strong and where they aren't

[calm aurora]

if only the sb mod was never made...

[stray spear]

I still need to work on my ability to consistently backstab ogryn and captains, I'm still inconsistent and more of 50/50 haha

[pulsar aspen]

Val as in.. what? Valorant?

[tropic crag]

thats not actually what that means always, you can have the most kills in a game like val or ow and still be the sole reason your team lost

[pulsar aspen]

This ain't Valorant.

[mighty belfry]

How can you even compare Valorant to this game though.

It's not even remotely the same deal.

[keen timber]

if I play league and I push every sidelane and take turrets, and push enemy base and create perma prio, even if my scoreline is bad, I'm still the reason we won.

[keen timber]

captains easy, it's the spawns i struggle with. they move a lot

[manic wolf]

Scoreboard should be used to check a build's viability at most, an to laugh when you see someone manage 20 kills in a match, not much else

[lilac ermine]

If im playing darktide and I have 200 specials killed and 2 million damage and the teammate has 10 special killed and no damage then im better

[tropic crag]

and spawn have wonky hitboxes... on account of their wonky body

[pulsar aspen]

No, it means you have those stats.

[calm aurora]

If you like big numbers, just do solo or duos

[stray spear]

Yeah I just kinda learned to just pray and stab the centermass of spawn

[dim moth]

eh not really

[mighty belfry]

Even in something like Siege, being a top frag doesn't always dictate that you're gonna win the game too lmao

[stray spear]

And hope it finds the head somehow.

[dim moth]

stimm crate scum can eat shit and die all the fuckin' time but if it's blight spreads that corruption immunity is irreplaceable

[keen timber]

extreme hyperbole

[lilac ermine]

Stats do dictate how games will go mostly

[final temple]

it just means you chased these stats.

[keen timber]

remember guys, any support build is instantly bad

because it has bad scoreboard

this guy said so, and he knows best

[manic wolf]

Ever played a Battlefield game?

[lilac ermine]

Just playing normally

[lilac ermine]

Yes

[dim moth]

I do think that the worst support builds will all have bad scoreboards too tho

[stray spear]

The meta is 4 smykers because best damage numbers /s

[dim moth]

while generally the best support builds can infact pull their own weight

[manic wolf]

Then you should know that you top fragging isnt representative of how a game is gonna go

[dim moth]

they just help their team alongside it so they usually fall behind similarly skilled players

[final temple]

if you play normally these stats don’t get to have such a gap

[tropic crag]

the context of the numbers matters more than the numbers, they don't dictate anything, the stats are informed by the game that was played and not by the skill of the people in the game

[lilac ermine]

The team with better stats will always win

[manic wolf]

No, the team with the best cohesion and game sense will win

[calm aurora]

people tend to conflate support wi th passive gameplay

healers in wow were fucking heroes when i was young

[lilac ermine]

Not rlly if you get a team with 6 kd people then they will win against 1 kd people

[tropic crag]

this is super not true, you can go back through both sports and esports and find ALOT of examples of low action teams winning because they understand how to win

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/hide-the-pain-harold-harold-pain-hide-meme-gif-7962146957933466373

[mighty belfry]

This is such an exteme example that I can't even consider this applicable to what's being said here.

[manic wolf]

You can kill 80 guys, but if you've been doing that and not taking caps, you lose, because you're not playing the objectives. Darktide is similar. Damage is only a mark of how strong your DPS is, its not a measure of you putting it to good use

[lilac ermine]

Theres chances to win and people bet because the players have stats

One team usually has more chance and they will win usually

[tropic crag]

alot of times i'm standing around waiting for the "carries" to finish having fun and finally start moving again

[dim moth]

I think my personal experiences with havoc are actually really relevant here because I play primarily executioner's stance helbore veteran in havocs

I always top damage with very very few exceptions

But 100% of that damage is into elites/specialists and not really the horde

[calm aurora]

like doing fuck all when I am trying to destroy those fucking yellow sprouts

[dim moth]

Can you guess the most common factor in wipes and lost runs?

[tropic crag]

ZERO betting agencies use stats like that for betting odds... that would be actually dumb. They use win/lose ratios COMPARED TO THEIR PEERS DIRECTLY BECAUSE CONTEXT MATTERS

[calm aurora]

horde

[dim moth]

It's not the teams stats or my personal damage output I can tell you that

[manic wolf]

Yeah... stuff like that... not letting the psyker get repeatedly butt-fucked is another example, etc etc

[lilac ermine]

Win and loss is still stats

[dim moth]

It's the fucking horde because we have nobody capable of actually managing it

With crowd control

Not damage

[calm aurora]

pothead fuckers

[tropic crag]

its the ONLY stat that can even kind of matter... that doesn't make you right it just means you're taking a step towards finally understanding

there is a reason why elo systems ONLY use win lose

[dim moth]

Killing a horde is only one part of managing them, and frankly it's the less important part

A long havoc that wins is still a havoc that wins

[stray spear]

Stats are a measurement of something, but sometimes what it's measuring does not have bearing on the actual effectiveness of gameplay function. Stats being interpreted is a different beast. Especially since there's many games, where players can pursue stats to detriment of the actual team or objective.

Imagine a teammate focusing on stealing all of the kills from brainburst psyker because of scoreboard at end, instead of hordeclearing properly. For example would be a net negative honestly.

[manic wolf]

Not these days

[lilac ermine]

Elo systems dont only use win lose

[dim moth]

You need the support aspect of having high stagger in order to actually manage the horde and it's by far the most important role in havoc imo

[tropic crag]

if you're talking about modifiers those are tweaked to make the player feel better, not to make them more accurate... its literally making the system less accurate to make the player feel better

[dim moth]

Someone has to have the stagger necessary to properly keep enemies from just washing over the team

Like an Arbites, Ogryn, or Zealot

[calm aurora]

why are you using elos in a pve game?

like, what?

[lilac ermine]

I didnt bring up elo

[tropic crag]

if you're really struggling a rampage scum can kind of fill that spot but like... yeah its a struggle

but having someone who can just slam into any group at any time no matter the situation is just... it leads to more games won

[manic wolf]

Aaaand we circle back round to why Arb is a good class lul

[tropic crag]

yeah i don't think there is a bad class atm, just zealot and they are only bad because i personally find them boring

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/ogryn-stk-goedulf-spin-rotate-gif-5132349500874882306

[carmine solar]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-gif-17556910517109081583

[final temple]

I mean, we cannot make the claim that the different ways to categorize player roles based on class map neatly on a power distribution that is quite uneven. arbi is a cool concept but other classes just have comparatively more killing power that keeps the purpose of arbi behind the curve. you cannot assess this by looking at match stats alone without understanding the builds

[tropic crag]

wheelies for the oggy when?

[verbal dew]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-ogryn-slide-crouch-drennt-gif-16208176206711016442

[dim moth]

I don't really think so in the context of havoc

[manic wolf]

Best thing about Zealot is taking him into Aurics and letting the blueberries fold like wank tissues in a stiff breeze and leisurely wandering over to the next respawn post as you chop heretics apart without a care in the world

[dim moth]

Good stagger is extremely important for your frontline in havocs

And it's kinda hard to compete with shock mine/break the line/concussive

[manic wolf]

Impacts, my beloved

[tropic crag]

break the line and concussive is... oppressive lol

[final temple]

that is what I want to convey. killstats are not telling the full picture.

[dim moth]

Ogryn has better stagger tools but they aren't on 20 second cooldowns

[tropic crag]

speaking of oggy stagger i've been trying the paul again and finally having fun with it

[limber cradle]

BtL being up basically permanently is insane in the hands of a good player

[dim moth]

single handedly keep the entire armor pack at bay by yourself

[verbal dew]

paul has very fun heavies

[dim moth]

I still think arbites is like 5th place in terms of overall class power level but holy fuck so much of that is Break The Line

[tropic crag]

while killing them fine because all your damage spikes on things that are on their butts

[keen timber]

me when we have 0 stagger and the rotten pack is 10 crushers, 15 ragers and 16 maulers

surely I can just oneshot it

[upbeat gyro]

Its cool being that guy sitting in psyker bubble with arbiter holding the line and enemies staggered holding down M1 full auto on the enemies and scoring most dmg and declaring youre the best in end i guess. DD is a necessary role too and all.

[verbal dew]

every time I see a crusher horde I think of the patch notes saying that we decreased the density of crusher hordes in favor of more HP

[keen timber]

yeah this

[keen timber]

unfortunately rotten shits all over that

[tropic crag]

went semi meme build and leaned into the special attacks

[verbal dew]

I've never gone power surge on it

[tropic crag]

its very funny

[verbal dew]

I just went with the no movement speed penalties on heavies talent

[tropic crag]

like the attack itself does pretty ok armor damage and insta kills anything smaller than a mauler in the area if you add the dot onto it

i take that talent also yeah

[pulsar aspen]

Rest in Peace, Power Maul.

[tropic crag]

lol its more fun now tbh

[livid raven]

i kinda want to cry when the special is in cooldown tho

[tropic crag]

lol if that special didn't have a cool down we'd all hate oggy

[pulsar aspen]

I won't have that discussion now, but compared to what it was capable of before the rework, the Power Maul is .. not really any good or better now.

[tropic crag]

because no one would be able to play ever

[verbal dew]

im still waiting for a skin that isn't the yellow danger stripe one that's in the shop now and like twice in the last few months

[livid raven]

true but the weapon is so ass while on cooldown

[final temple]

ogryn smash!

[spark gyro]

The Paul™

[verbal dew]

lisan al ogryn

[tropic crag]

its got more interesting rotations and actual real use cases for its special, i'd take that over the more rigid weapon it used to be, and i'm more talking about its fun factor

[pulsar aspen]

It was capable of stun-locking an area of around 11m around the Ogryn, through walls.

[tropic crag]

yeah but it wasn't fun

[pulsar aspen]

But sure, have your reworked Power Maul.

[tropic crag]

like it was boring

[mighty belfry]

Funny thing is I've been running Forge Rampage with blackouts specifically for this reason

[tropic crag]

lol trust me i get it, i'm still grumpy over the greathammer rework that happened like 7 years ago

[mighty belfry]

Big damage and also good, readily available stagger.

[tropic crag]

when only one person is controlling the group and everyone else is damage you'll often see the group fold totally if the cc person dies

[mighty belfry]

Like I could run boom or nades

[tropic crag]

blackouts are just so comfy, if they are tox blackouts they're even better

[mighty belfry]

But I value immediate cc on rampage more than the bustedness of those two.

[verbal dew]

blackouts feel very silly for the amount of stagger vs the sound it makes

[tropic crag]

you mean like tiny pop but everyone falls over dramatically?

[verbal dew]

ye

[tropic crag]

yeah its a bit weirdly weighted that way

if you're using tox ones and double nade people will not realize they are already attacking dead things because they are so muted

[candid flint]

same exact mindset here

i also bring the new bolt pistol, for more CC

i will whip it out, purposely miss and hit the ground near an enemy, jsut to stagger them

i miss so it doesnt kill them, to keep adrenaline/rampage going

[mighty belfry]

A Chem nade isn't gonna stop the trapper from shooting me through an armor horde unless I've already placed it down preemptively.

[candid flint]

i will spam it into dense elite packs, jsut to soften then up before i move in

[mighty belfry]

A blackout will.

[pulsar aspen]

(a rocket will most likely kill her too)

[candid flint]

obviously true

but once you're out of rockets, what now

you usually atleast have 1 blackout nade left, and they regen obviously

blackout nades just have way more guaranteed uptime

[upbeat gyro]

Now i wanna add blackouts with chem on my build, just need to trim talent tree somewhere else then

[low harbor]

Blackout very good at buying time for rampage’s exhaust

[pulsar aspen]

@candid flint It depends on what you intend to do with your grenade slot.

[upbeat gyro]

Stoked Rage 20s adrenaline droppable?

[candid flint]

yes.

[astral canyon]

Rockets also have a bit of chargeup before firing

So they arent as immediate as a blackout

[upbeat gyro]

So many times im busy whacking something, trapper comes, switch needler to kill it, but instead i get reload animation and have to let it live

Blackout would deal with it then

[spark gyro]

If you're getting a good upkeep without it, sure

[upbeat gyro]

Well... im too busy to check

So i have no idea honestly, why i am asking

[spark gyro]

I like having some leeway to move around and hop short distances between fights

[candid flint]

that is the last adrenaline perk id drop lol

[upbeat gyro]

Could drop sample collector and Extra pouches

Ok ill keep it then

Oh wait, nope, thats where the chem explosion is at

[spark gyro]

If you're using adrenaline exclusively for hordes and minor elites with the kill modifier, I'd say you can drop the 20s because you're just gonna blend things anyway, but I took a liking for the non-kill one and it's somewhat lengthy to build on bigger enemies

[tropic crag]

extra pouches with blackouts is nice but not needed... if i'm going tox i'll path around the extra nade sometimes but if i'm going just tox blackouts without other tox support then i path through the +1 nade node

[spark gyro]

The upside of the hit adrenaline is that it still builds super fast on hordes because it counts each enemy you cleave

You crit once in a horde and might jump idfk 10 stacks

[tropic crag]

yeah on some weapons i use on hit as well

[mighty belfry]

Accounting for pull out time and also the fact that your rockets don't regen.

[spark gyro]

It's so fitting for scum's pull out game to be weak

The rocket regen is what really does me in

[mighty belfry]

In a melee build, blackouts being immediately available to throw as long as you have one is part of why they synergize so well

[spark gyro]

I know the thing is like SUPER strong and whatnot, but sometimes it feels like I can go most of my time just not finding one fucking grenade pickup

And by my own tales, I'm like one of the only people looting everything that's not nailed down

If there is a grenade, I should 100% find it

Because nobody else looks anymore

[mighty belfry]

You also can have teammates that will pick up nades just cuz they're there.

Even if they don't necessarily need them.

And then you're kinda stuck.

[spark gyro]

I wonder how much of these issues is with the pickup warnings and how much is people just not caring

Like, do people genuinely not see the med stimm tag floating on their screen and hear my line, or do they just not want to go back a bit and grab it?

[mighty belfry]

You would think people would know better in higher havoc but no the vet's kraks can't regen fast enough apparently sometimes.

[spark gyro]

I swear you people will make me start havoc just so I can fit with the cool kids again

[tropic crag]

aurics are just comfier

but havocs are fun sometimes

[mighty belfry]

As someone who plays havoc, doen't.

[spark gyro]

I already have a lot of "fun" on auric HISTG

[mighty belfry]

At least I've found a rampage build that handles rotten armor really well.

[spark gyro]

The special spam can be a bit taxing at times, but it's fun to just be on 5th gear all the damn time