hivescum-class

[mighty belfry]

yeah. because i can't name a person who actually thinks stamina curios are a noob trap. at least until now. since they actually do have value in terms of surviving a dicey situation.

[tropic crag]

i'm fine with people taking stam or even saying its good, because yeah it works fine... but its not a meta choice when we can take stam regen on another slot... if stam regen didn't appear on a lower prio slot then i would agree that +stam is actually a good thing to take

[drifting heron]

You see this point about max stam being bad is funny because I also see people with like 4k hours run 1

[carmine solar]

noobs think stam is a noob trap

[drifting heron]

In addition to stam regen

[mighty belfry]

3.5k here and I'm running them too. like this is a take I'm genuinely like, actually confused by.

Especially because I play aggressively enough to the point where I actively notice the difference between having one and not having one.

[tropic crag]

i've always been in more of an odd camp of theory for these games tbh, i value differnt things on a metric i think is alot more accurate to reality in practical applications

you never need more than 1 stam in your bar at a time to do any action that isn't a last ditch after you mess up badly

[bronze glade]

i started off barely using stamina

but the more i played, the more i've come to appreciate stam

you can do a lot of things with stam

[tropic crag]

my stam is almost always at zero during any given fight

[vapid jungle]

There are people who even take stamina on weapons

[tropic crag]

but i always have stam to use

[limber cradle]

This is correct iirc, doesnt matter unless its piss toughness

[bronze glade]

it's a more proactive source of defense

and also a resource for offense

[drifting heron]

Take a stamina curio

[mighty belfry]

Y eah like

Poxbursters completely bypass toughness.

[bronze glade]

one bad block might kill you

why do that

[mighty belfry]

They do not give a shit about your toughness, except when it's gold.

[tropic crag]

read the second message the full statment is "my stam is almost always zero during fights, but i always have stam to use"

[drifting heron]

Yeah

Take a stamina curio

Maybe 2

Possibly 3

[tropic crag]

but i always have stam to use

[bronze glade]

and on vet and HIV, stam can be a pretty important source of dps

[tropic crag]

why would i take them?

[warm axle]

a single +3 i understand. its flexible for the heavy weapons, and can make for specific plays you cant always theoretically value but prefer to have in your deck when you need it.

[drifting heron]

You could have more

You could have so much more

[tropic crag]

but you only ever need "any"... more doesn't do anything

[bronze glade]

don't need as much hp/toughness if you simply just don't get hit

[tropic crag]

reducing my argument to something as dumb as that is incredibly insulting

[warm axle]

post the run

[drifting heron]

It makes me very happy
And let's me sprint to the next group better

[tropic crag]

slide once... you can now sprint for a good time, slide twice, you basically have a full bar of stam and never lost speed

[drifting heron]

Thats annoying as hell when taking corners

[mighty belfry]

And it messes with dodge recovery

[drifting heron]

Do the entrance of baross like that

[tropic crag]

then use VT2 move tech around the corners, its what i do

[drifting heron]

I dare you

[tropic crag]

wait... maybe thats why i think we have too much stam and you guys don't... do you guys use vt2 move tech still?

[drifting heron]

Yeah

In combat

Sprinting is easier when I'm just going somewhere

[tropic crag]

no i mean travel tech... like in times where you could sprint do you guys not dodge walk sometimes then lead into a slide? because thats usually safeer than sprinting depending on angles

dodge walk and animation slide i mean... like with attacks

[drifting heron]

Thats way too much effort for an empty room

[tropic crag]

its not tho, if you've played enough vt2 its more effort to run like a normal person

[drifting heron]

Shift + w
Vs
Turn right, dodge, slide, adjust

Which is slower than sprinting on a fair few weapons

[tropic crag]

its more like "slight angle, dodge swing, dodge swing dodge swing" because you can steer during the movement... and if you're used to games like old EDF then traveling always looking off like 45 degress is a normal thing

[drifting heron]

Yeah but i could hold shift and w and not think

[tropic crag]

not around corners, and yeah its slower but safer when crossing no mans lands

[limber cradle]

I'm gonna be honest I don't even do that shit in vt2

[drifting heron]

And relish in the absolute power of my 3 stam curios

Letting me sprint a whole extra 20 meters

[tropic crag]

goes back to the noob traps

yeah you could learn melee, or you could just learn gunscum

yeah you could learn to dodge, or you could just play arby

[vapid jungle]

Stamina a noob trap. Lol.

[drifting heron]

I could also not use my entire brain to cross an empty room

[vapid jungle]

That's a notion alright.

[tropic crag]

you could learn to manage infinite stam with just stam regen... or you could stack stam

[limber cradle]

I'll be honest

[drifting heron]

Also

[limber cradle]

I take you a little less seriously everytime I see one of your takes

[drifting heron]

3x stam curio is 18% attack speed

[limber cradle]

This is a take of all time tho

[drifting heron]

I could be invincible and cap animation speed

[tropic crag]

on most weapons that functionally won't make a difference compared to the base stam when you're actually fighting

[drifting heron]

Its more though

[vapid jungle]

Its bordering on contrarian for the sake of

[drifting heron]

And more is good

[mighty belfry]

18% attack speed

won't make a difference

dude

[drifting heron]

Who cares if I cap my animation speed

[limber cradle]

I don't need to say anything else tbh

[mighty belfry]

DUUUUDE

[tropic crag]

because we are already hitting high attack speeds without it

it will make a difference on 1 or 2 builds mostly

[drifting heron]

30% attack speed from 1 node is hilarious

[mighty belfry]

but that doesn't mean 18% is not a massive increase

it will 100% change how engagements go in melee

[tropic crag]

impressive yes, but in practice, in actual games with all the other buffs in the build going you wont' actually get most of that value

[vapid jungle]

Stop feeding the troll

[tropic crag]

you're better off not taking the stam increase

[tropic crag]

i've been here for too many years for people to think i'm actually a troll lol

[drifting heron]

I could have 60% nominal attack speed

It would be so awesome

It would be so cool

[limber cradle]

Yeah they're not trolling, I believe this is their raw opinion

[tropic crag]

yeah, really its that i value practical application over theory and i agree the numbers are higher but i think those numbers are giving false value in actual real use case scenarios

which is a hard thing to argue... engineer work taught me that

[limber cradle]

I wholly and entirely disagree with you

[vapid jungle]

Yea wrong

Its been outlined pretty well

[bronze glade]

on HIV if you simply don't get hit, you can get 18% bonus attack speed with 9 stam 🙂‍↕️

stam curios op tbh

[tropic crag]

half the time with these takes over the past 10 years i'm right eventually , and if i'm wrong that is fine but people are mostly just calling me wrong and repeating the "good points" of stam without actually comparing it directly to the other things you can gain with the slots

i agree, stam is value, but when you have easy access to stam regen on a different slot, that high value slot should go to something else

[mighty belfry]

no i think we know the value of health and toughness

but we also know the value of stamina too.

[limber cradle]

Stam regen is opportunity cost to me

[vapid jungle]

Youre saying its a noob trap when it actually rewards resource management

[mighty belfry]

that's why you opt for a mixture of two or three.

[tropic crag]

so do i, which is why i keep bringing in stam regen, you start getting to over invested in stam when you stack both

[mighty belfry]

It's not that you don't value stamina that I think is the pressing matter.

It's calling it a noob trap.

[limber cradle]

Yeah

I agree

[mighty belfry]

Because it's the one stat that noobs won't actually see the value in unless they actually understand the game.

[limber cradle]

I do also make inflammatory claims for attention tho so I get it if it's that

[vale viper]

Silver lining is that maybe youre a v skilled player :^) and can manage w/o it

[mighty belfry]

It's arguably the very opposite.

[vapid jungle]

No it is the opposite

[tropic crag]

i say its a noob trap because the community over values it... rewind 8 years ago and i was saying "over focusing on breakpoints is a noob trap" because people would discount things not understanding that in practical settings breakpoints are floating so the value assesement changes... now adays people are more level headed about breakpoints so you don't hear me calling it a noob trap

[limber cradle]

No they aren't

Have you seen vet chat lately?

All those people care about are breakpoints lmfao

[mighty belfry]

tbf it's vet chat

[tropic crag]

they are quarantined there ... for a long time in tide games it was the whole community

[mighty belfry]

the class that actually needs to care about breakpoints

[tropic crag]

the vets can be weird

[drifting heron]

The vets make the best guides

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3367063781

[tropic crag]

yeah they have a few weapons it makes sense to care on, i don't think breakpoints are a noob trap but overvaluing them is... honestly its basically how i fell about stacking stam

[drifting heron]

This is peak information

I am feeling so informed

[mighty belfry]

yeah, but, stacking stam is different

Like, there ain't many people running any more than one stamina curio.

[limber cradle]

It's a shame I'm illiterate

[mighty belfry]

It's nice to have one as an insurance plan when you need to get out of a finicky situation.

[drifting heron]

Same

[tropic crag]

lol i'll gladly be the idiot who is saying something is over valued as much as i am able in this community because its lead to better things sometimes, and if i'm wrong then i'm wrong and thats always fine

[low harbor]

this is actually veteran + zealot guide now

and I'm now on arb sections

[drifting heron]

I know

[limber cradle]

Arb really needs a good guide tbh

[drifting heron]

I keep up

[tropic crag]

best guide is the oggynomicon

[drifting heron]

They don't have shit

[limber cradle]

Lotta misinfo gets spread in arb chat ime

[drifting heron]

Because it sucks

Arb chat is like 3 people

[limber cradle]

I agree with this as a good "the default" tbh

[tropic crag]

i think its because all the numbers players found arby boring

[low harbor]

yez

[low harbor]

he's not boring to me

[drifting heron]

How many points is that I can't count

[limber cradle]

I might slap weight of the lex on there too tbh, that talent is wonderful

[low harbor]

18/30 prebuilt

[tropic crag]

i find the class fun, i meant the min max people specifically found it boring enough to not hyper focus on it and make a guide

[low harbor]

well

[tropic crag]

like i love me some arby maul time

[low harbor]

I am working on it

lol

[tropic crag]

thats good then

[limber cradle]

Me go play nightreign now tho

[tropic crag]

i need to get back into that game

but i need to pick up the dlc

[low harbor]

arb's issue to me is rly just

he has 1 good ult

and 2 good keystones

[tropic crag]

the shove?

[low harbor]

but the rest of the tree is pretty good

[limber cradle]

Arb is stupidly close to having a "the build" tbh

[tropic crag]

but yeah arby building is kind of boring overall, scum has great build potential

also thank god for cousinokri coming in here and telling me about the boltpistol with lethal prox on it for scum... using it to get the gun scum penances and its made it fun for me

he's the king of off meta weird shit

[vapid jungle]

Lethal proximity blinders is a lifestyle

[tropic crag]

i just never gave lethal prox a good shake before now, okri is nice because he always records alot so has examples to show the class lol

[vapid jungle]

It gives the rpg a significant boost as well. V noticeable.

[low harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1453241047944527964/38EF2E1.MP4?ex=6961d3b1&is=69608231&hm=a1d4ecb33cb86abc55facf1f9de8c0bf0e4b3622a81bf7c52aac914df5f1d5d0&

[jaunty coral]

guys if im rocking a stimm supply build + a stimm that has a longer cooldown - am i best just pressing ult off cd, or should i be always casting the stimm seperately when i can?

is there any downside to pressing the ult, when the stimm isnt on cd? does it not get the buffs to the team?

im not 100% sure how it plays lol

[low harbor]

stim crate currently bugged to always give ur stim's buffs to everyone who walks into its radius after it's been placed down

[tropic crag]

personally atm i do stim>box for the first one, to get 2 stacks. then after that i just press F basically on CD... but really you have 2 mins to press F again after you hit 4 stacks

[jaunty coral]

ok...i kinda thought thats how it was supposed to work hah

[jaunty coral]

does stimming without the ult, make the ult weaker (or is intended to without the bug?)

[vapid jungle]

You should stim first iirc then box because the cdr on toxin kill will refresh faster than the natural cool down of stim supply.

[tropic crag]

Tox pocket sand is just good man

[low harbor]

the intended function is that if u use crate while your stim is unavailable, the crate won't spread stims' effects

[vapid jungle]

The whole interaction is shit imo and should be reworked.

[leaden fable]

what is the crate even supposed to do without the stim

[tropic crag]

yeah its not mean to stack like that, but the ONLY reason i do both at the start of a mission is to get 2 stacks of chem dep then i just don't care about using the actual stim and only use the CD of it to get more boxes out.... if you aren't running chem dep then just box whenever tbh

[tropic crag]

cures corruption

[drifting heron]

Corruption immunity I guess

[leaden fable]

great, an ult as good as an aura

[low harbor]

corruption cure & chemtox trap

[tropic crag]

oh yeah the trap still works if you have the node

[leaden fable]

okay chemtox trap I could see I guess

[tropic crag]

i like the trap node on melee builds

because its just bonus... but its not a high prio node

but yeah on box+chem dep builds i think its best to just use the box as your means to stack chem dep throughout the mission, like you could min max it but i feel like thats more juggling than its actually worth if your cd is low or you're using sample collector

because with practiced deployment you'll get double boxes all the time if you just use box since the cooldowns will be staggered and both cooldowns bring back box

[vapid jungle]

Ditto I just drop the box. The stim/box management is too clunky for the value you get. The cd is already pretty low with dependency especially so if you take cdr stim.

[bronze glade]

just abuse the bug

and get the effect of the stimm anyway

[jaunty coral]

so basically, cast them seperately as much as you can (for now)

but after they fix the bug, maybe cast them seperately for 2 stacks of passive at the start, then always save stimm cd for ult cd so that you make sure you buff the team

[dim moth]

I honestly expect stimm crate to be buffed in the next balance patch

so they might just make it always have your stimm effect no matter what

[jaunty coral]

why would it be buffed when its like the best ult?

[rough peak]

the dockets shop keeps offering me perfect antax mark caxes

[tropic crag]

i don't think its worth it because if you just use box only and are using practiced deployment, you'll still get double boxes (like one after the other) all the time

because the cooldown triggers will stagger out

like yeah double dip the first time or two to get to 4 stacks faster, but after that just use box

[bronze glade]

infernus hiveker is so fucking stupid

[supple torrent]

big doubt. Especially when practical deployment+sample collector exists. Best case scenario they give base crate a bonus effect thats useful outside of havoc.

Or at least one that's more general than corruption heal.

Or just move toughness branch of cartel special to crate.

[tropic crag]

i think the fact that we would still get double boxes all the time would be more than good enough and encourages "intended" play with the box

at least i get double boxes pretty normally

[supple torrent]

Think about it from the pov of like a casual at the game.

stimm crate on its own is just bad until you hit certain modifiers in aurics

[tropic crag]

yeah which should encourage them to just use the box, which ends up being the "better" play in the end as its just smoother to play and you still have a ton of uptime

but honestly most of them wouldn't even realize its not giving the buffs

[supple torrent]

what do you mean by just use the box?

You mean just spamming crate even if stimm is avaiable or not?

That's what I do for the bombs. And well it doesnt hurt when director is spamming corruption at you.

Stimm crate is good once you know all the little quirks to play around with. But it really doesnt feel like the base ability is well designed for all levels of play

[tropic crag]

yeah i just mean spamming crate over and over without ever hitting the stim key, because alot of times your cd's will stagger in a way where you'll get box, use it and then box will be ready instantly or within a few seconds

and even when you're not getting double boxes the uptime will still be really good in a proper horde event because you're killing so much

[supple torrent]

My issue isn't double boxes. I think crate is kinda stupid if you know how to use it. My problem is all the other players who aren't staggering cooldowns to use it as a bomb. Or dealing with corruption for every mission. It doesnt feel good for that level of play. Especially since they aren't playing into enemy density to make sample collectors cooldown really good.

It feels like with Beacon of Purity that was pretty much useless until havoc. I don't think that's a good way to design a base ability

[tropic crag]

i think its mean to turn your stim INTO a base ability tbh, which is why its intended to not use them both on a box build

so i think the intention is that its never used as just the base

thats at least how i took it when actually finally getting around to testing it

my only problem with box atm is that it feels like the best way to carry on scum and i like box builds but i like rampage more lol

[supple torrent]

something something support builds

[tropic crag]

its the best kind of darktide support, it does it as a side effect of killing

[supple torrent]

I'm pretty sure Arby is the only class where the support ability isn't the automatic best

[tropic crag]

all the stagger they bring feels like support either way tbh

[limber cradle]

It isn't on most characters?

[tropic crag]

tauntgryn is probably the best outside of the meme build.... people like shout vet

[limber cradle]

Chorus on zealot is actively worse than FoTF and Shroud, ES is better than VoC on vet if you can actually utilize it

[tropic crag]

i don't think fist pump zealot is best

yeah

[limber cradle]

SG is nuts

SG is psykers best ability by a mile

[tropic crag]

yeah gaze is crazy good and the best skill if you're good enough to use it

scum now kind of scratches the itch that SG builds did for me

[supple torrent]

I guess it depends on skill level. Support abilities will just carry your team over the finish line if they're struggling

[tropic crag]

i think box carries so well because you're just playing and they get buffed and healed of corruption as a side effect

so it both rewards your own skill of just fighting good but you get to share your buff

[supple torrent]

Also 2 blinders worth of toxin

[tropic crag]

lol yeah blinders are amazing

and a boom on top of that

means dead hordes if you pack both

i just wish rampage was the outright best, i don't think thats in the cards even if rampage is still really good

[supple torrent]

Ill keep saying it again and again though. the negative effects from rampage ending are too much

[drifting heron]

No they aren't

They're kinda fun

[limber cradle]

I'll be honest I do not notice them

[tropic crag]

naw they are barely there, the only downside at the end of rampage is that you might eat a dog to the face every 5 or so games

[drifting heron]

I notice cause my stamina goes away and I drop like 10% attack speed

[limber cradle]

Just bring "haha I have 2 voc shouts" but tbh

[supple torrent]

0 stam and suddenly you lose your attack speed, drop from like 45% DR to -25% DR. And no stam

[tropic crag]

hive city brawler does alot to make up for that... and maybe i don't notice because i'm used to slayers constantly up and down attack speed

[limber cradle]

Everything is normally dead when rampage ends ime

[tropic crag]

honestly usually adren is procced then too so its helping...and you can stim right then... the stam comes back like instantly

if you stim and adren is going then you're basically comparable to when you pressed rampage... not as good but close enough to not struggle

[supple torrent]

For me what happens is it runs out and poxwalker claps me for a 1/3 of my hp through toughness

[tropic crag]

this is why i stack toughness and not stam

[supple torrent]

Now that I think about it, its always poxwalkers

[tropic crag]

but honestly its not a big downside, yeah you notice it but its not actually a big problem when you play it for long enough

because you start to get used to the length of your crazy time

or at least used to the effects telling you its done

[supple torrent]

I'm guessing the diminishing returns are hitting me towards the end with poxwalkers. So I end up running out. But I can't get used to not having stamina so I end up trying to push or slide away and get the "block break" effect and take tons of damage.

I guess bellow would fix it but idk what to swap for it.

I cant live without HV+HC anymore

[sullen ridge]

vultures mark uptime is actually really ass at 8 seconds cause you lose all 3 at once

i get about 35% uptime during combat even on my million damage runs

[mortal hollow]

i have been playing hive scum for the couple of days and have him on level 18 now. but i just cant make a good build it feels like. maybe because my friend wants to play heresy since i was level 9 but idk

[sullen ridge]

your damage comes at the end

[drifting heron]

Take a toughness talent then race to the bottom

[mortal hollow]

and which keystone should i go for?

[tropic crag]

all of them work tbh

[mortal hollow]

a alr

[tropic crag]

but you do want to save as many points as you can for the bottom

because so many high value nodes down there

[mortal hollow]

a alr thx.

[tropic crag]

like you dont' just put points there always.... but you should put alot of them there

[sullen ridge]

also ranged scum is tough till you get pickpocket around level 23 or something, which lets you use em the whole mission

[tropic crag]

that too, rampage is probably the easiest while leveling till you get closer to 30

[drifting heron]

The real trick to leveling scum is playing one mission then buying and upgrading a tac axe to 500

[tropic crag]

it is just a "good out of the box" sort of weapon

[mortal hollow]

i am using a 300 crowbar atm

[flat mist]

the real trick is to get your max level friend to queue hardmode twins then suiciding for free xp

[sullen ridge]

society if float like a butterfly was here instead

i thought they tried to keep the universal talents towards the middle :(

[tropic crag]

on melee builds i only spend 4 nodes there

[flat mist]

dont think i played an actual mission until about lvl 27

[mortal hollow]

i tried this but i think my friend is lowkey bad because he kept saying he couldnt do anything bacause he got jumped every milisecond

[zenith fern]

nah you can do fine without pickpocket, you only have to manage your ammo and desperado usage

[flat mist]

wut? the idea is you just start the twins battle then die. you get a shitload of xp from it bc it counts as being a large percentage through the mission

[zenith fern]

in which 80% of desperado users dont know

[mortal hollow]

o like that, my bad.

[unreal stirrup]

oh I didn't know this

so i was killing them anyway

because rampage

[flat mist]

lel

[sullen ridge]

i think the value you get from not having the mental strain makes up for it

genuinely infinite ammo and your team gets the pickups you would hoover up

pickpocket is better for team ammo than the gunslinger aura

[zenith fern]

I legit forgot that aura is a thing

when pickpocket overshadows it

[sullen ridge]

i dont think ive pulled out my crowbar in 3 missions

[zenith fern]

And lets be real scums almost dont use the gunslinger aura maybe except havoc

[limber cradle]

Do you need pickpocket? No. Is it stupidly good value for a talent point you'll be around anyway on most builds? Yes.

[flat mist]

asking the big questions here; why do some people call the bonesaw modes green & purple

are they literally colourblind

[sullen ridge]

yea idk tox effects are more yellow than green

[flat mist]

The blade is distinctly yellow

With some red/orange depending on the cosmetic

[limber cradle]

I call it green to piss specifically you off

[flat mist]

I approve this message

[austere coyote]

cause poison is green duhh

[zenith fern]

feels like a mix of green and yellow to me

[flat mist]

its as green as a bee

[tropic crag]

on my monitor it looks green tbh, like a yellow green but more towards the green end than the yellow by just a hair

like its green in the same way burnt orange is just brown lol

[spark gyro]

Is the hivescum class cosmetic upgrade the trench coat I see everyone using?

[austere coyote]

yep

[spark gyro]

Thanks lmao bought it before getting an answer so I have the upgrade as it was only 5 bucks

[random shuttle]

I wonder when Scum will get new cosmetic rotation

or he gonna be stuck in limbo forever like Arby

[spark gyro]

Praying scum and arby get decent cosmetics

[zenith fern]

scum for sure will most likely have more than arbites

[spark gyro]

The only cosmetic I've liked so far for scum is the reaper mask and the bounty hunter's greatcoat

[fallen coyote]

Arby has pretty much been confirmed to not get cosmetics

[sullen ridge]

1% total?

[dim moth]

is there some other 1% it could be

[spark gyro]

What would we say is the most broken HS build atm?

[spark gyro]

Pain

[fallen void]

desperado trivializes the game

[spark gyro]

That's the ability you get straight off the bat right that gives unlimited ammo

[austere coyote]

yep

[sullen ridge]

current cooldown

is there some other place you could be?

[flat mist]

Nothing in the game works that way

[sullen ridge]

you never know

darktide is an obtuse game

[flat mist]

True

[sullen ridge]

thats why i came to ask my dear scum here

[dim moth]

gun

[spark gyro]

Gun?

I've been playing with the shivs a lot tbh really a big fan of the melee combat of hive scum as they're fast enough to duck and weave between bullets

But so far I've only used the uzis and shivs

Kinda wanna try a crowbar build or a 2 hand sword build next

[sullen ridge]

gun is like a lot of small shivs in quick succession

[spark gyro]

Ah ok ok

[dim moth]

gun'

[sullen ridge]

why hive city brawler instead of quick and deadly

and hypercritical

[spark gyro]

Oh big missile

[sullen ridge]

and not moving target

[spark gyro]

But I'm also just more of a melee player I like getting up in their face and bitch slapping the heretics

[sullen ridge]

gun scum should literally never use ur melee unless u need to push a horde out of the way or block a boss

[spark gyro]

I've been making a melee build anyway lol I don't like half the guns for scum

[dire badge]

I found even with range builds I'm forced into melee most of the time

[dim moth]

critical melee will one shot a mutant with hyper crit even with no investment anywhere else

saves time

even with infinite ammo it's inefficient to shoot them

unless y'know they're all the way over there

[spark gyro]

Taking chrome dome shots with dual wield uzis just feels wrong to me tbh but if anyone has a melee crit build I'd love to see them

[sullen ridge]

my stubs take like 6 shots

[ocean hollow]

Yeah one thing I was very surprised about is how quickly you can tear through mutants

And that's a big deal in havoc imo. I feel people underestimate how much damage muties can do

[dim moth]

2.5x damage taken from melee does that

it's one of the few things I'll bother to bring up when I see randoms struggle to kill mutants just magdumping them at point blank

just a simple mutants take nearly triple melee damage

[ocean hollow]

I'm buying a new keyboard since I can't sprint consistently but I was getting fucked by range but like, I survived being stuck in an ally against 15 rot crushers and solo'd a DH more or less with absolute ease

Class is busted

[dim moth]

ironically more effective to lie and say they take less damage from guns

[ocean hollow]

People don't like doing less damage but they don't mind doing more damage

[main trellis]

Just shoot him…

[dim moth]

takes longer

if the mutant is in the distance not coming around a corner sure

if it's in melee range I am pulling out my melee since it will be faster

and no amount of infinite ammo will change that

[tranquil turret]

tbh I felt like sample collector should be in the upper nodes

[main trellis]

if you crit; gamba is overpowering this poor mans soul

[tranquil turret]

gives player more use of the cartel specials

[main trellis]

No; its meta as it is

[ocean hollow]

Sample collector being higher up would be too free tbh

The nodes towards it aren't even that taxing, they're pretty solid

[main trellis]

Apart from 10% toxin str grey node tax

[main trellis]

Then you’re doing it wrong; atleast for HS

[ocean hollow]

Ah yeah, I was thinking moreso after that

But yeah fair point

[main trellis]

+1 extra blitz? Only if you go for blinders tbh but then again you wanna grab toxplosion talent to buff them so yeah
4 chemnades and most importantly 4 rockets is just… 👌

[dire badge]

You have no choice in havoc when there's so many lads

[ocean hollow]

I just didn't really know how to avoid this

What was I supposed to do. Jerk off and shoot it at point blank range with my needle pistol so I could see the one gunner behind it?

That feels fucking cringe

[dim moth]

make more noise about gunners walking while shooting AI being bugged and allowing them to shoot at ranges they're not supposed to be able to

I.E point blank

it's also why they keep shooting without LoS and shoot walls too

[ocean hollow]

Oh so that's a bug? I thought it was a feature

Can't tell with this game

[dim moth]

I thought it was too when it was only reapers doing it

but then they add it to regular gunners and suddenly they're able to shoot at point blank too

and will be shooting walls

[keen timber]

yeah gunners shooting point blank is really fucking stupid

[ocean hollow]

This was so much fun

They couldn't even kill me, had to ledge me

[main trellis]

You haven’t seen what i’ve seen then - can show tho; its all recorded tonight

[upbeat gyro]

Gotta logon and check if that is exactly same as my build. I think mine is missing some survivability atm

Actually, some differences

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqhGz1jAyzo any quick bad habits and obvious mistakes you can spot? Still new to this class and back to game too after 1½ year break

Next time ill take arbites there so ill be more useful to team

I guess i should pick Hive City Brawler for the damage reduction for my talent tree

[main trellis]

No gunner resist?

[upbeat gyro]

Slippery to Jittery too i guess

[dim moth]

havoc gunners

I've had them do that to my ogryn with FNP

let alone poor little scum

[main trellis]

They still tickle you with 2x resist

So i pressume none were present = pepega

No wonder he melted

[upbeat gyro]

On that note, im adding 2nd gunner to my curios too 😅

[main trellis]

Good choice; regular gunners tickle you while reapers do acceptable dmg for you to react accordingly to the situation instead of just falling flat on the ground

[upbeat gyro]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0cb8692-432c-4f8f-bc64-cd0cb8fbde7e/just-hit-lvl-30

Updated with curios, weapon blessings&perks and talents picked from that above pic

+5% crit on vraks iag should be carapace instead?

Its what i struggle against most anyway, when pack of crushers come and i dont have either Stim or Desperado up

[trim wind]

Vraks won't do shit against Cara without jamming stim and desp

[main trellis]

Funny thing is; IAG is the best for carapace on scum due to crits - 1 mag on average does ~50% of auric crushers hp (in comparrison to uzis ~25%)

[main trellis]

I would say ‚and/or’; even on H40 rotten 1 can do alright with the team (both is obv best)

[upbeat gyro]

Those Havoc25 armor penances, are they only for vet?

[pulsar aspen]

Dare i say, the notion that your loadout needs to cover -EVERYTHING- becomes less of a thing when you work with a team you can coordinate with.

[main trellis]

For all base classes

[upbeat gyro]

Ok, gotta somehow do those then

[pulsar aspen]

Sure, it will create weak links or lynchpins and everything might fall apart when something goes wrong, but it allows for more options.

[main trellis]

Can help tonight if you wish
Help & coach with builds too

[pulsar aspen]

This is a team game after all.

[trim wind]

You get all the armor regardless of the class you play in havoc

[upbeat gyro]

Id be up to otherwise but fetching 👶 in hour and will be busy with him until 😴

[main trellis]

I wish arby/scum had some sort of havoc armour…

[exotic temple]

I just go boom bringer on my desperado builds for crusher packs. Horde clear shouldn’t be an issue with vraks and desperado.

[main trellis]

I mean i’m at work and after that i go trade cards so i will be back home in no earlier than 8h from now on

[upbeat gyro]

Maybe ill go back to it instead of chem grenade, just want chem grenade penance still done

[main trellis]

Funny that you can almost 1 mag a rotten h40 crusher with a non-crit despy build; its that busted

With crits it might 1 mag

[upbeat gyro]

Your crit talk made me just switch Gunslinger Improved to Anarchist

[main trellis]

Chems are great
Rockets a Greater

[upbeat gyro]

I just felt like less of a burden to team picking ammo with that sharing node

Aaaand back to bazooka too

[main trellis]

I mean for crit version despy you go for anarchist

[upbeat gyro]

Oof, now my build is 100% identical to the one posted here earlier

[main trellis]

Non-crit takes gunslinger cause other auras don’t provide much

[exotic temple]

Ive swapped to rending stims and it makes a pretty big difference

[main trellis]

Exacly; altho i dunno if crit stimm will be better for IAG cause it banks on those + it has slightly better adm - requires testing

[upbeat gyro]

Is my stimm good?

[final temple]

it’s solid. some peeps prefer speed over cdr.

[main trellis]

Cdr is nice; i use att spd with reload

Cause don’t forget; shoot faster = kill faster

[upbeat gyro]

So you use speed+reload instead of str+rending?

[exotic temple]

That’s basically what I run. I was doing the node that gets more cdr on ranged kills and there are times there isn’t enough stuff to shoot to make it worthwhile.

[ocean hollow]

No that's with giga dogshit curios because I literally had no mats

I plan to add gunner resist when possible

[upbeat gyro]

If trying out att spd and reload, what would you replace it with? CDR or STR?

[final temple]

cdr

Str is a fixed constant in the stimm. too good not to take. but cdr and speed are interchangeable

[dim moth]

https://tenor.com/q1TXulte0hR.gif

[upbeat gyro]

Does the +2stam make sense if mostly just take out dagger to escape hairy situations and block?

[final temple]

no. if that was your goal, going with mobility knife makes more sense.

[main trellis]

I feel ya… platonically

[main trellis]

Cdr

[fervent flint]

is hivescum worth its price?

[final temple]

that depends on your socio-economic circumstances

[dim moth]

honest to god the most fun class

[upbeat gyro]

Ive had my money's worth of fun just leveling it, hit 30 lastnight

[dim moth]

can only occasionally peel myself off of this guy to play exe veteran

[upbeat gyro]

Its punishing for mistakes, glass cannon especially leveling up

How long does Stimm actually last?

[main trellis]

15s

[upbeat gyro]

Trying to count how much benefit that 50% CDR from stimm gives to get faster desperado

[dim moth]

15 seconds

20 seconds max with stimm crate or long lasting stimms talent

[main trellis]

Tbh; despy is primarily for;

1. Range immunity
2. Instant reload to benefit from blessings like blaze away & cavalcade
3. Saving ammo (pickpocket makes it 3rd not 1st reason btw; balanced talent)

[dim moth]

if the instant reload works the same as other instant reloads it instantly cancels magazine related blessings

and resets them

[upbeat gyro]

Also +15% rending from it for crushers

[dim moth]

happens with ogryn PBB

[main trellis]

Nope; does not reset blaze away

[dim moth]

if you have blaze away stacks or whatever and use PBB to reload they all go away

[dim moth]

[main trellis]

As far as i’ve seen that is; go test in psykanium

[dim moth]

ugh god but my fuckin' twin stubber on ogryn is fire frenzy/deathspitter

have to fuckin' change the damn thing

[main trellis]

Tbh tho; it makes sense - you do not reload per say - you fill your mag with infinite ammo - thats why when you are at 0 in reserve & mag the moment you press despy you get a mag full

[upbeat gyro]

So 15s stim with 50% CDR cuts desperado downtime by 7.5s or does it work like that?

[main trellis]

PBB actualy reloads your weapon… altho as i recall it does not cancel blaze away either

Cause its that fast

[dim moth]

oh wait it doesn't actually

[main trellis]

It does not reset blaze away as fas as i remember

[astral canyon]

Blaze away and other magazine blessings end from you stopping firing

[upbeat gyro]

Thinking i could drop the CDR altogether and only have STR&rending and 45s (instead of 75s) so it would be available lot more often for crushers

[dim moth]

it does but for the kickback and rumbler specifically

so still

[main trellis]

For them? Need to see that

[main trellis]

Did not account the subnodes ye

[main trellis]

Socio-economic desparity

[main trellis]

Man thats fking sad; would make taking blaze away more enticing than it is (its not much)

[zenith pagoda]

They buffed it to 9% so it's actually 45% DMG lol

[main trellis]

Wew

[upbeat gyro]

Kinda feels it makes no sense to have 75s cooldown thing just to cut away -7.5s from already 40s short thing 🤷‍♂️ Also no cooldown timer for stims on UI?

[dim moth]

what is the light grey bar layered over the dark gray stimm icon not enough for you

[main trellis]

There is a mod for that… but UI DOES show your cdr… just… highlights poorly - use the stimm, wait for it to go on cd and then watch the icon…
They srsly thought that was good & put it in the game

Pepegas

I did not knew that until someone told me that AFTER i used the mod

[upbeat gyro]

I just keep randomly pressing 4 as i have no clue if i have it or not 🤷‍♂️

Screw it, im taking CDR off so ill have it more often for those "oh shit 5 crushers" situations

[main trellis]

Use a mod it will be better this way

[upbeat gyro]

Ill go check nexus

[fervent flint]

i succumbed to being a scum and bought this class

[misty mango]

whaats a good amount scum toughness

also highest stam toughness for melee

weapon

[main trellis]

For every class if your toughness is 120+ you’re good; 100- is a threshold of ‚i want to actualy die; pls end me’ type shit

[misty mango]

asking to see how much stam curio i can fit

[main trellis]

Use 1 altho you need hp if you go havoc cause burster will 1 shot you

[misty mango]

daddy need that SPEED

prob gonna use chain axe

[signal nebula]

I use 2 stam curios on bone saw, and 1 on Shivs

[upbeat gyro]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/653

[misty mango]

shrimply get schizophrenia

[upbeat gyro]

Im rolling with 3x toughness (16%) curios and all three have also +5% perk on em, total 204 toughness. I just dont trust myself not taking some hits

[final temple]

I use no stamina curios. all toughness. and I am fine with bonesaw speed.

[main trellis]

HP is important on scum tho; in havoc atleast - not getting 100% - 0% by a burster is nice

[fallen coyote]

This so much

[final temple]

just add 5% health on a curio.

[main trellis]

Could do that but only class that wanna do it is psyker cause low tdr on average - if low dr only way for being tanky is increase max toughness (i don’t consider regains as being tanky - its more of a sustain)
HS can be very tanky + burst of energy regain

[final temple]

I am running with that 5% and it noticeably saved my ass without the need for a full health curio

[main trellis]

I run 1hp curio; i end up with 120 toughness in H40

And thats good enough on any build

Imo

[final temple]

I am old. sometimes that random hit sneaks through.

[main trellis]

Oh me 2
Just as a more melee oriented class you tend to get chipped more so having slightly more hp is better imo

[final temple]

yeah, I can see the rationale

[main trellis]

Come to think of it in terms of psyker it makes sense too cause its a more range oriented class so maxing toughness is better than hp

[misty mango]

just play smiker at that point

3 smyker 1 random

to give the rando depression

[upbeat gyro]

I just fixed it with mod now, worth it

[main trellis]

I do; but not everytime you get one… a competent one is even more rare

[misty mango]

whom need competence if you have 3 smyker

[main trellis]

More like aneurysm

[misty mango]

both

[main trellis]

Cause 1 falls and the rest panics & its a domino effect

• you lose to multiple bosses/twins

[misty mango]

thats why you have that rando as sacrafic

[rough peak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/728174260878704643/1178364672756437022/salvatory_ogryn.gif

Tho that's unrealistic, a smyker couldn't survive a crusher overhead

[modest patio]

3 Smyker aren’t making it through H40. Or at least I’d be surprised if so

[misty mango]

https://tenor.com/view/look-at-him-efe-omowale-assisted-living-he-look-so-funny-haha-gif-7078505333145405761

[rough peak]

could be worse... could be 3 woundgryns

[modest patio]

Oof

[rough peak]

it's sad that woundgryns are objectively probably worse >.>

[modest patio]

For what it’s worth, purg psyker is certainly the best H40 psyker and I don’t think 3 of them are making it either lol

[rough peak]

Another perfect antax in the shop >.>

[misty mango]

woumd build in general
outside or zealot marty

[modest patio]

I’ve been meaning to try this on Hs. Keep forgetting but everyone says it’s nuts

[rough peak]

I swear every time I launch darktide to check the curios I get a perfect antax offered

the rashad is cracked on the hive scum

tho not with finesse dumped

[modest patio]

Is the finesse a dump stat because the scaling is bad? I feel like HS gets a ton of crit

I’m surprised mobility isn’t the dump

[rough peak]

Finesse is dumped specifically for the antax because on the antax mark finesse is actually cleave targets

Mobility is dumped for the other 2 marks

[modest patio]

Is this the preferred mark?

[rough peak]

Rashad is the prefered mark

since finesse affects weakspot/crit damage and attack speed

[modest patio]

Like finesse is actually just cleave with the wrong wording? Like good ol FatShark stuff?

[dim moth]

no

[rough peak]

No, the same stat occupies the same slot on different marks

[dim moth]

finness is weakspot+crit damage

it's also attack speed if it's a stat on a weapon

[rough peak]

The stat that isn't on the list is hidden at 50%

when there are 6 stats on a weapon

[modest patio]

Oh I see, I misunderstood

[upbeat gyro]

Just finished my build and then i see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgW5eEJaIU0

[modest patio]

Bromentum, so goood.

[rough peak]

Who needs like 2.1 cleave when you have bromentum

[modest patio]

Has bromentum always added 15% weakspot damage?

[rough peak]

no

[modest patio]

I played a lot of Taxe zealot and I didn’t remember that

[rough peak]

it used to be on weakspot kill infinite cleave for 4.5s at t4

after it got changed it has always had weakspot damage added

the horde clear is better now cause you can kill up to 4 hordlings/elites in 1 swing

before the damage falls off

Why? Cause fatshark thought infinite cleave was too op, so they made it that way instead... cause that's so much weaker

[modest patio]

I used Taxe infinite cleave to spam zealot charge

Was fun but definitely seems stronger now

[rough peak]

Yeah, killing 4 enemies in a swing is a bit better than just controlling more enemies

meanwhile the chainsword can kill god knows how many hordlings in 1 swing cause iirc crit weakspot damage doesn't fall off on it

[ocean hollow]

Oh that's cool. I didn't know that

[upbeat gyro]

Reginalds Desperado build

[final temple]

some questionable talent choices there. but overall good sentiment.

[main trellis]

Yeah nah; could be way better

Does not take 25 toughness

Yikes

No sample collector

Takes both augments for vultures

Yeah; i respect regy for data & info but his builds; both weapons & talents - far from ideal/good

[rough peak]

I mean it could be worse... he could have lacerate on the shivs...

[modest patio]

Those vulture augments are bad?

[rough peak]

the 12s version isn't needed, I think

[final temple]

obligatory ‘vulture’s is bad. period. take chem dep’.

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/vulture-shrug-dance-gif-15299842774961152157

[main trellis]

Not bad; just unnecessary

[main trellis]

Would not say so; if you don’t go for crits/wanna help your team more vultures is nice

• you don’t have to pay attention to stimm stacks so you keep the stimm for when you really need it instead of just popping it to maintain buffs

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/blackops6-bo6-fent-epictroll-gif-1577596466601315418

[main trellis]

• it costs less talents to be usable too cause for chem demp you spend 3 (main keystone, chem fortified & crit chance one) while for vultures you take the keystone only and thats enough (VD is not needed once you get your dodges mastered; its more of a beginner helper node)

[rough peak]

b-but... my funny +20% crit chance...

[main trellis]

I you use uzis/bruhauto you don’t go for crits
If you use IAG/Shredder you do

[modest patio]

I use vulture because I forget to spam stim lol

[modest patio]

So the Reginald build was only like 2-3 nodes off mine

[main trellis]

Nah; you simply did not had situations where you feel like you have to use it

[main trellis]

What if both? Didn’t thought of that did ya?

[rough peak]

[main trellis]

Its funny to almost 1 mag a rotten H40 crusher with non-crit despy build

[final temple]

we would still not be the same. cause I don’t stimm for the buffs. I run just one node. not for buffs. not for booby trap. just to keep on stimming.

[main trellis]

Imagine what IAG would do

[final temple]

stimms are love. stimms are life.

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-warhammer-40k-grenade-truth-nuke-gif-6248133608324632914

me just now realizing the frag bomb is the nerfed version of morgrim's bomb from vt2's chaos wastes:

[main trellis]

Meanwhile Bombastic HS Rockets…

[upbeat gyro]

Gonna try this, any questionable talent choices here?

[high forge]

yo, what if we got a sledge hammer or something similar for the hivescum

id love to be able to bonk tf outta people with a two handed in ranpage

rampage. or daul hammers, that would be sick

[upbeat gyro]

No impact or stagger talents at all to support such

[main trellis]

Dual claw hammers like the that mafia boss pub fight scene

[main trellis]

What do you think rampage does?

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah well, straight up strenght works too

And the stims

[main trellis]

75% power from rampage + stimm

[upbeat gyro]

Rampage + Stim and you could just use MK 1 Fists 👊

[high forge]

it has rending? and cleave. if you had a hammer set, it would come with impact perks

a knuckduster set would be pretty sick, i just cant imagine how you would stack it to be viable in horde

or power fists

[upbeat gyro]

Both needle pistol and bonesaw lvl 0 😭

[astral canyon]

No deployment for crate seems like a weird choice

[main trellis]

Ekhem… crowbar is an impact weapon & has no impact blessings…

[main trellis]

Ikr; pepega choices from Regy

[upbeat gyro]

So needle pistol dump stat is stopping power or damage?

[tranquil berry]

Damage for the memes

[livid raven]

anything except ammo

[main trellis]

I dumped ammo… cause pickpocket is broken

[upbeat gyro]

I guess stopping power makes sense since the poison ignores armor anyway

[livid raven]

by that logic damage makes sense too

[upbeat gyro]

Pretty much yeah

[upbeat gyro]

Deployment instead of Booby Trap?

Or what would be loose talent to use for that instead in Regis build?

[lapis raft]

booby trap does nothing most of the time so sounds about right

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah other movable nodes would be Slippery and Jittery perhaps but both sound like i need em to survive

[lapis raft]

dont rly need both usually but booby trap is worse than both on high viscosity crate for sure

[upbeat gyro]

Which makes more sense, to lower down viscosity or go high CDR on it?

CDR gonna help teammates too so...

[lapis raft]

max viscosity makes most sense with current state of crate

[upbeat gyro]

I dropped 12% speed for 25% CDR on it

[lapis raft]

but i would drop slippery for the 4 stack on chem dep there

[upbeat gyro]

Compared to Regi's guide

Alternative mode on need pistol MK 2 seems kinda weak, my low level one wont even kill surrounding trash mobs

Tanner advocates running reload perk as apparently carapace doesnt do much at all on needle pistol (was first hit on youtube on indetail needle pistol)

[lapis raft]

i run reload speed as well its nice

[upbeat gyro]

When you use alternative firing on needle pistol? And is it worth it?

[lapis raft]

when i see bunch of stuff thats close together and isnt crushers and bulwarks

and yes it is with pickpocket

as you can just spray the enemies

[upbeat gyro]

Also, quickest mode to farm safely plaststeel? My bonesaw and needle are now 300ish 😭

[odd brook]

Perks are just bugged with damage, you have to swap to melee then back to needle again

It's inconvenient and you can stack enough chem to kill them anyways so it doesn't truly matter

Reload better uptime, maybe take boss damage

[verbal dew]

just regular damnation or auric missions

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah he goes through the bugs in his vid too, just comes to conclusion the perk wont make much difference in the end

[lapis raft]

you get bunch from mortis trials as well and mortis trials are at least fun compared to just rando auric and damnation missions

[upbeat gyro]

Never tried yet Mortis Trials, infact i dont even know what they are

[verbal dew]

they are slower than reg missions and usually not as much in terms of rewards

less ppl play them as well so you're likely to just get bad groups and lose all the progress anyway

[upbeat gyro]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/mortis-trials

Random aurics are still challenge enough for me to not bore me out

[low harbor]

damnation/auric quickplay and loot efficiently
or grind havoc for weekly chests

[final temple]

can confirm, reload speed worth it

[noble latch]

i had something cool happen yesterday, i was able to place down the stim supply pack twice in a row because i got hit and staggered out of it when i first tried to place it, my animation got interrupted but it did still place the pack down, and i was able to place another one immediately after. now we just need to figure out how to reliably exploit that

pairs nicely with the lingering stacking stim buff bug thing whatever

[zenith fern]

wave based roguelite

[livid raven]

quite mediocre, but you should try it sometime

desperado builds break the mode even more than they do in normal gameplay

[final temple]

ahem. endless boomsticks

[livid raven]

not as good, but fun

[zenith fern]

Mortis is not really built for material grind

Just a more casual and chaotic side gamemode

And the average mortis takes far longer than the missions

[upbeat gyro]

Wish we had these

one way to get resources is to discard weapons, youll get dockets and an amount of resources that go into consecrating it

What?

Time to go run though my old classes stacked on items

[north crow]

Hmm, relentless vs deci on taxe7

anyone compared the numbers?

[upbeat gyro]

Also melk bucks into random weapons -> discard for resources

[bronze glade]

headtaker

[north crow]

ofc

but 2nd blessing

BM is not needed

shred is pointless

you already have 67%

[bronze glade]

BM makes a pretty noticeable difference in horde clear

[north crow]

not with rampage it doesnt

75% melee str + 50% cleave

it really does not

100% str with HT even

[bronze glade]

yeah, except for the part where taxe has a cleave cap

so BM is pretty damn good to have

try testing it with creature spawner

[north crow]

okay, you go BM

[bronze glade]

how long it takes to clear 50 poxxers with and without BM

[north crow]

a situation literally irrevelant

[bronze glade]

you don't use your melee for horde clear?

i mean if not then yeah, it's irrelevant

[north crow]

the angle itself will prevent me from hiting more than 3 realistically anyhow

gaining a couple seconds on enemies posing the least threat

[bronze glade]

absolutely not

[north crow]

I could not give less fucks

[bronze glade]

but i can only tell you the facts

you do what you want

[north crow]

I rather gain more dmg against targets it actually matters

over clearing horde marginally faster

[bronze glade]

did you actually test anything

or are you going off vibes?

[low harbor]

This combined with headtaker gives u up to 9 cleave with heavy atks

[north crow]

you heard him, it's not enough

[low harbor]

Which is a big jump from 3 but not high enough

[north crow]

huh

it is to me lol

[bronze glade]

do you not know how cleave caps work

[north crow]

I know exactly how BM works vs cleave cap

[low harbor]

Stops at 2 scab shotgunners

Yea not high enough tbh

[bronze glade]

and you still think it's bad... ok idk what to tell you

[north crow]

all I'm saying is, I value single target over BM with scum taxe is all

you gonna be spamming lights most of the time anyhow

[compact oyster]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1451299016016007290/togif.gif

What did i walk into

[livid raven]

squid games

[bronze glade]

Just run Mk iv at that point

[north crow]

HT BM, fully ramped rampage with heavy rending node

lightspam with HT deci

and that's without 15% crit from chemdep further skewing the TTK over to the light side

[bronze glade]

yeah, light spam for single target is fine

not for horde clear tho

[north crow]

PA heavy was by far the most optimal with zealot

but with scum

I don't think it matters much

67% crit will mean you crit on first hit most of the time

and the insane AS you can get further favor lights

[bronze glade]

i think PA is a wasted move

for single target

[north crow]

its your best opening move

[bronze glade]

the first light is a strikedown so might as well just do that instead

[north crow]

does heavy dmg but quicker

not the point

[bronze glade]

they have the same damage and light doesn't cost stam

[north crow]

I think light spam have good enough hordeclear with scum and as such, single target dmg takes prio for me

[bronze glade]

and is obviously just as fast if not faster

[north crow]

but what does that have to do anything with BM vs dmg blessing btw?

yea first light does 124 compared to 122

same shit

[bronze glade]

i'm just telling you what combos you should be testing light spam against

i use L H L usually

[north crow]

I mean

PA light heavy is better than that

if we wanna be nitpicky

but like I said, irrevelant when it comes to BM vs dmg blessing

[bronze glade]

how, it's basically the same except it costs stam

and the heavy comes out later

when taxe st heavies hit like a truck

[fervent flint]

does hivescum have different cutscenes in the prologue? than the other 4 classes?

[north crow]

no it doesnt?

[fervent flint]

just starting this class

[bronze glade]

wat doesn't

[north crow]

nvm, irrevelant

has nothing to do with BM vs deci / relentless

[low harbor]

Do Decimator tbh

Relentless resetting between targets is pretty meh

I still think BM largely better

[north crow]

it most definitely is for mixed hordeclear

and you wreck cap shields anyhow

monster dmg is on the lowish side tho

but, you can just pump em full of needle I guess

HT relentless L H L combo

doing any heavy vs single target is just gonna be a loss of DPS

further escalated by more crits

I could get it up to almost 2k with rampage rending + BM, which still falls short

[near mauve]

the tac axe situation is crazy

[final temple]

nope. same as arbi.

[north crow]

ok I have failed to take one very important factor into consideration

BM will perform significantly more consistent during rampage downtime

[upbeat gyro]

Mr E's chem supply build bottom part

[north crow]

I would advise against not always taking brawler

[livid raven]

i would advise against mr E on principle

[north crow]

huge value for 1 point

[main trellis]

The fact he takes far right node next to toxin mania says alot about his inexperience with the game hes suppose to be good as a content creator

Also no chem fortified

[north crow]

I don't mind targeted toxin

[limber cradle]

Did take 4 stacks tho for some fuckin reason

[north crow]

-15% vs dreg ragers and reapers, and -30% vs chaos spawn can come handy

[fervent flint]

is crusher the only enemy that is bad against dual pistol?

[north crow]

taking 4th stack over TDR makes no sense tho

[bronze glade]

gotta get that 5% extra crit chance

[main trellis]

Its the same as suppresion protocol for arby - dogshit tier

[north crow]

disagree

[livid raven]

btw does the toxin damage malus node apply to nurgle beast's vomit

[bronze glade]

he simply doesn't get hit

[north crow]

I don't have it, but don't hate it either

I do hate 4th stack tho

[bronze glade]

yeah seems fine on paper

in practice... feels really bad

[north crow]

yea I've stopped using 4th stack altogether

leaves you with no flexibility when to use

[livid raven]

it did always sound mandatory on paper

[north crow]

4th stack is good, just restrictive for my taste

[main trellis]

I knew from the beginning its not worth it due to uptime & how useful stimm can be

[upbeat gyro]

And here i was just thinking what talent to drop for 4th stack, guess ill pass

[main trellis]

For marginal bonus

[north crow]

same principle, I don't hate people using it, but I won't

you can get the same dmg from 15% dodge anyhow

5% crit is 13-15% on shivs

well, 13% on flak, didn't do the math on rest

[rancid coral]

I wish Zealot's Desperation was similar

[north crow]

I wish many things would be similar on zealot lel

[rancid coral]

But instead of hiving 20% DR on high stam, give 10% movement speed on high stam

xddd

So the more you run the slower you become thus more desperate :)

[north crow]

straight up upgrade over the zealot one

it's literally the same, better

[rancid coral]

True

[north crow]

scum is just a far superior piety zealot without the safety net

[rancid coral]

I still would like if they added either the +weakspot dmg scum has

Or the +weakspot str ogryn has

[north crow]

martyrdom is the only zealot keystone left in my book

[rancid coral]

To Zealot

[upbeat gyro]

Does Voice of Tertium trigger on needler toxin kills?

Or just the first hit dmg before dot?

[north crow]

only direct dmg kill

wait

which one is voice of lel

[livid raven]

15% damage on first enemy hit of each attack irrc

[north crow]

isnt that melee only?

[livid raven]

no wait that's a tertium welcome

8% toughness replenishment on ranged kill

15% for elites and specials

[subtle zenith]

Hey guys, which mark made people explode on the needle pistol? the mark 2?

[rancid coral]

To be fair this will be a cold cold take but god damn Pickpocket and Needle gun is absolutely degenerate

Like, as degenerate as inferno psyker

[livid raven]

they both do

[subtle zenith]

oh okay, thanks

[livid raven]

but if you want to use that mode, you want the mk2

[upbeat gyro]

Just watched video which showcased how the needler AOE hits instantly and well if you just shoot on floor in middle of enemies, instead into them

[sharp dune]

So instead of the poison explosion happening to only 1 enemy, if you shoot it to the ground, do more than one pop the explosion on death?

Cause if so that’s cool

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah if in AOE mode

I dont quite understand the wording, do you need to have stim ready for it to be part of that medi-pack, or does it always give out?

[north crow]

They both spread toxin in an aoe shooting the ground, but mk2 won't spread it any further unless from a direct hit

if you wanna shoot the ground only, it doesn't matter which mark you use

honestly, as long as pickpocket exist, it doesn't fuckin matter whatsoever

pick the number you find funnier

[teal quartz]

Safe bet to assume I should be running 2 toughness relics and 1 health like zealot or am I off?

[brittle sierra]

You want stamina for attack speed

[teal quartz]

Thank ya!

[bronze glade]

There isn’t really a set curio configuration for HIV

Heavily depends on build

[brittle sierra]

I'm too lazy to change mine

So it's always been 2 tough 1 stam

[north crow]

I have 2 toughness 1 hp

6% AS doesn't make a diff

not dying to pox does

but generally, most people will run a +3 indeed

[main wagon]

Zealot doesn’t run health curios unless using Fatmangus, silly

IIRC Psyker runs one because it prevents burster/sniper 1shot

[north crow]

I have 1 HP on every single class of mine 🙁

if I need stamina, I'll just put +2 on the weapon

[main wagon]

That’s truly some crackhead behavior

[teal quartz]

😬 My buddies told me I was silly for not having one 😂

[north crow]

unless you are running wounds, curios are mostly preference

[main wagon]

As far as HP curio goes generally it’s just more cushion so not a completely bad thing, but it doesn’t prevent any potential one shots so it’s effectively just more chaff tanking fuel

[north crow]

run what you're comfortable with, don't let anyone ridicule for

[main wagon]

Toughness comes back easier than HP so most people recommending stacking the former rather than the latter

[main wagon]

And 100% this

My monster hunter builds are far from “efficient” but I’m alive the entire fight and still deal either top or second top damage

[teal quartz]

Tbh I think im just learning my buddies have a non-meta way of playing at this point

[main wagon]

I’ve got two buddies that always take a wound curio because they expect to go down

[limber cradle]

If it works it works

[main wagon]

I’ve long tried explaining that if they took toughness curios and got better, they wouldn’t GO down

To each their own IG

[north crow]

There is also one factor everyone forgets

[bronze glade]

3 wounds

[teal quartz]

I definitely need the toughness but I rly hadnt considered stamina cuz they avoid it like the plague

[north crow]

HP from curios have a 1:1 scaling on your revived HP

as havoc only reduces BASE hp

[bronze glade]

stam is good. on some builds i take 3 stam

[north crow]

getting rezzed at 20% HP vs 50% can make a big difference

[main wagon]

Stam fits in any build you feel you need it

I had a whole thing about “I don’t think noobs who can hardly craft builds are playing high havoc” and then I remembered a post I saw the other day

[teal quartz]

Tbh if I go down at the wrong time even with extra health Im just gettin tapped rn

[main wagon]

Someone spent ALL their points before even reaching their Blitz, no keystone

And wondered why they didn’t get into a Hav40 party

[teal quartz]

😂 I saw that too it was hilarious

[main wagon]

People going into Havoc with blues and purples is BOLD

[north crow]

has nothing to do with what I said, when your team revives you after going down, you will have 21+15% more HP as compared to not having any

THAT is a big difference

[teal quartz]

No I getcha, I was moreso saying Im not good enough for that health to make a difference for me once im picked up

I can laugh at ppl doin bad in havoc all I want but I still havent been able to make it past 20 so 🤷‍♂️

[limber cradle]

Tbh I like vet trinket set up for scum nowadays

Hp/tough/stam

I was never a multi stam runner tho

[north crow]

I see, my bad

[teal quartz]

Ur all good no worries

[north crow]

I have 1x 21% and 2/3*5% in all my builds

[teal quartz]

Id be willin to give it a try at least, I usually take a lot of resistance to damage on my curios could be my hurdle

[north crow]

well no, not with martyr

I mean, flat HP is literally DR against everything

kinda sorta

not really, but you get the point

[bronze glade]

9 stam or you're a pussy

[north crow]

There used to be a guy I run with pre 13

shredder vet with 3x3 stam + 3x RS

runs ahead, kills everything, vacuums all the ammo

[teal quartz]

Yea, besides corruption resistance should I set all the others to the side then?

[north crow]

You should do what you get comfortable with 🙂

[livid raven]

corruption resistance you say

[limber cradle]

I just do not see the point tbh

I only run corruption resist on one kinda memey arb build

[bronze glade]

it's funny on shivs but yeah it's mostly for the memes

[north crow]

I've had 15% corr resist on all my melee builds since forever

because pugs WILL blow up bursters on your ass

[final temple]

you can run whatever feels best on hs. there is no hard requirement.

[teal quartz]

That is a must for me, I have way more fun with melee

[north crow]

attaboi

get the guns outta my tide games!

[teal quartz]

😂 only 2 I love using is boltgun for bosses, and arbite shotgun, bout it

[final temple]

scum isn’t as depending on corr res because you can always skill into corruption removal on stimm or run supply

[north crow]

yea I don't have it on scum

you can just nimble dodge across the continent

to avoid bursters