hivescum-class

[supple torrent]

It feels like a waste since stimm cooldown only starts when ur stimm ends.

[brittle sierra]

it's the reason why scum is basically immune to range fire

[astral canyon]

also 33% increase in the time it takes before your cooldown starts

[ocean hollow]

I mean that's only because dodge linger is broken right now, ya?

[supple torrent]

You can just put the point into something more useful

[lilac schooner]

no its not

[astral canyon]

it is

[brittle sierra]

even when it wasn't, it's still amazing

[ocean hollow]

I see

[astral canyon]

cartel stimm only starts the cooldown once the effect is over

[ocean hollow]

I swap long lasting for nimble

[lilac schooner]

it adds 5 seconds to a 75 second cooldown which is not a 33% increase

[ocean hollow]

Anything else?

[lilac schooner]

basic math

[supple torrent]

Yes however when fatshark fixes that it's will still be good. With nimble and jittery you rarely ever run out of ddoges

[brittle sierra]

this is also a melee build, which means you get no value from posture anyways

[astral canyon]

to the time it takes for the cooldown to start

not for the cooldown to end

[ocean hollow]

Oh? I thought it would help with jittery uptime

[brittle sierra]

why do you have soo many toxin nodes on the right?

I honestly thought the first time that this was a bonesaw build because you invested soo many points into it

[ocean hollow]

I basically copied what was in pins

blame cole

[lilac schooner]

thats like saying keeping your ability from going out on rampage and desperado is bad cause it increases the time when it wont be on cooldown

[dim moth]

literally the same nodes I run on right side xd

pocket toxin blackouts are REALLY strong

[brittle sierra]

for resetting crate sure

[dim moth]

toxin mania+coated weaponry is free damage any time you crit

[ocean hollow]

Infinite CC seems kind of broken

[dim moth]

3 tox stacks kills all fodder enemies in the game

[supple torrent]

It does help but there are better skills to grab.

[dim moth]

it is literally identical in use case to psyker shriek

[ocean hollow]

and making cc give cancer seems op

[dim moth]

but you get 5 of them

and can stack it further since they don't have a cooldown

problematic elite pack just throw 2 of them to get the tox started and they will all die

[lilac schooner]

tox build is kinda bad since there are barely ways to apply aoe tox

[brittle sierra]

I dont think a small radius is the same as everything on the screen getting dots

[ocean hollow]

I will wait for the discussion to settle before deciding what to use xd

[dim moth]

you get five of them

[brittle sierra]

i mean if you want my rampage build its: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07a0cea-46de-4afb-ba97-8ed478d8603e/professional-crack-dealer?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

tldr\

[verbal dew]

was a fun one, helped carry on this extra bursters, hounds, mutants maelstrom with HC+HV tac axe stimm madness

[dim moth]

pickpocket on a melee build xd

especially with needle pistol that has so much goddamn ammo to begin with

[brittle sierra]

I am not going to repeat what I said millions of times about pickpocket

[near mauve]

i have pickpocket on a melee build

infinite ammo is op

[lilac schooner]

I prefer bolt pistol over needle tbh

[dim moth]

yeah but you're a melee build you should be using your gun to make your way into melee because that is where your damage is

not wasting your time shooting everything

[verbal dew]

I've been skipping pickpocket more and more on melee builds

[dim moth]

if you actually need pickpocket on a melee build

you are not playing it correctly

[near mauve]

ill do both cause im that goated

[dim moth]

and need to melee more

[near mauve]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1011669287288700938/1123310555847991296/gato_acordeon.gif

[verbal dew]

yeah my above screenshot had very little use for needler

I didn't come close to running out

[supple torrent]

Same, I just play like I usually do on melee. Only pull out the needle for bosses and specials.

[dim moth]

I use needle pistol rather liberally to help with armored elites and I have yet to run out of ammo over the course of a mission even a single time with it

[ocean hollow]

I like the logic of not using pickpocket but I do see big merits, especially when you're in a gunner alley like Oubliette

[dim moth]

2 shots into crushers, 1 into every mauler/scab rager

[near mauve]

just think of taking pickpocket on a melee build as playing a hybrid build with the only investment into the gun part being pickpocket cause u dont need nothing else

[dim moth]

if I need to push gunners I use blackouts and blue mode needles to stagger them

so that I can walk up and stab them

[ocean hollow]

I also don't like using ranged because it means I have to reload and it means less bonk with shiv

and I want to stab things

[dim moth]

or if I'm playing shivs literally just stimm crate and fly towards them at mach 5

[ocean hollow]

I'll also reiterate I only care about H40

how it performs in anything else, idc

@dim moth Gib build, I want to see how it differs from Orcka's

[verbal dew]

I just assume everything is auric maelstrom

[astral canyon]

i just assume youre auric maelstrom

hi auric maelstrom

[verbal dew]

i am

[dim moth]

for shivs

[supple torrent]

I mean. It looks fine for. I'd just drop posture for jittery. You can probably drop Bellow for battering strikes or hypercrit. Or maybe Quick and deadly.

[brittle sierra]

the reason why I take pickpocket in every build is because it is very easy to grab, and there is literally no drawback in having unlimited ammo

helps with the team as well since you give them ammo

[verbal dew]

is the stim crate explode worth it

[dim moth]

probably not?

but I just like it personally

[ocean hollow]

I don't want to be a crate spammer although I see the merit

[verbal dew]

ye I just wondered since I'm not running it

[dim moth]

it would be the first thing I'd remove for more points if I felt I needed the

[ocean hollow]

I definitely understand this.

[dim moth]

oh I don't spam crates

I have a full 75s cooldown stimm

stimm crate just has the lovely novelty of starting the cooldown immediately

[supple torrent]

I love it. If you get practical deployment you can stagger the cooldown of your stim and your crate.

[dim moth]

so it's very easy to use a maxed out stimms effects to have a ~30 second cooldown on it

[verbal dew]

right, get some use out of it while stim isn't ready

that's fair

[supple torrent]

So drop a crate with no stimm as a bomb. Then stimm comes off cooldown you get crate again. Drop more crates.

[dim moth]

and yeah that too

[ocean hollow]

Mm.

[dim moth]

chem dependency means during stretches of long downtime crate will be up but stimm won't be

so you get to drop 2 crates

(which is currently bugged to give you stimm effect anyways)

[verbal dew]

my current crate build is a bit memey with like all out stubs lol

[supple torrent]

Sigh I wish booby trap and fast acting stimms were baked into stimm supply

[mighty belfry]

Pickpocket on melee build boring

[astral canyon]

fast acting 100% shouldve been baseline imo

[dim moth]

yeah

that shoukld just be how box works

ain't nobody standing in that tiny ass AoE for the stimm buffs

[ocean hollow]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a0ca5f00-18bc-435a-b57e-4e367186fe94

I have re-edited to this for now. Point taken about pickpocket but I'm going to see how much ammo I use in a given run before I decide if I will use it and if so, how much

[verbal dew]

I'll give booby trap a try

[supple torrent]

Yeah it fixes the cooldownn reduction issue crates has. If ur run cooldown stimms

[dim moth]

oh also fun thing to do with booby trap is use blackouts to heavy stagger melee elites into it

[bronze glade]

Even HIV needs to pay taxes 😭

[astral canyon]

trap and supply im fine with being talents tho

[verbal dew]

I got speed+strength on mine atm

[dim moth]

https://fximgur.com/a/9Qi1X4A

[supple torrent]

I just prefer if it had a more general purpose use when stimm isnt available

[manic torrent]

Is Hivescum worth snagging right now?

[verbal dew]

I mean, I don't think there's anything to wait for if you're interested

[supple torrent]

You won't always be in a situation where you need to avoid corruption

[ocean hollow]

something like this?

I was wondering if I was gonna hit an attack speed cap

[manic torrent]

read he’s a bit underpowered right now so I figure I ask

[verbal dew]

ye but middle on the speed one

[ocean hollow]

or that other node in the bottom left for movespeed might be better

[verbal dew]

underpowered no

[supple torrent]

Does shivs need extra crit?

[dim moth]

not really

[supple torrent]

You're already running butterfly

[dim moth]

but with chem dependency you can hit 100% crit chance on them

[mighty belfry]

That's a lie.

[dim moth]

which melts things with hyper crit

[ocean hollow]

I'm not using chem dependancy so I thought I'd need it

[dim moth]

that's people getting filtered more than anything

[supple torrent]

But do you need it though

[dim moth]

scum is lacking in ways to ignore game mechanics and get out of jail for free

[mighty belfry]

Perpetuated by people who don't realize you actually need to know what you're doing with scum.

[dim moth]

gun scum is the exception tho

[lilac schooner]

hes a glass cannon but good players can just make him a cannon

[brittle sierra]

you want fervor

[dim moth]

scum you need to have at least okay fundamental skills at the game or you're getting peeled off the floor 3 times a game

[mighty belfry]

Tbf, I actually don't agree with this either. Scum has quite a bit get out of jail potential

[ocean hollow]

10% crit for 25% finesse.

I feel like that's a toss up tbh and crit is probably more widely useful

[dim moth]

blackouts, rocket, rampage shout, and...uh

[mighty belfry]

It's that you actually need to understand the game's mechanics to use that potential.

[dim moth]

15% crit

not 10%

[mighty belfry]

And the best dodges in the game.

[dim moth]

oh yeah being fast as FUCK is pretty good at getitng out of jail

but that ain't for free

[mighty belfry]

And the ability to make those dodges arguably infinite

[ocean hollow]

Oh the node before stacks? I was under the impression they were an "upgrade" but that makes more sense cos the rest of the tree is additive.

[dim moth]

arguably infinite I'm pretty sure the dodge recovery window is shorter than your dodges actually last

[ocean hollow]

So it's 15% crit for 35% finesse

[dim moth]

yeah

[reef spoke]

I personally consider the chem nades as a "get out of jail free" card lol

[dim moth]

finesse is weapon dependent

crit chance isn't

everyone loves crit chance

[ocean hollow]

Shivs do pretty good with both tho, no xd?

[main trellis]

rockets are more like that tbh

[dim moth]

yeah

[supple torrent]

here me out. rending feeds tox damage.

[dim moth]

finesse would be better for shivs if you were "playing seriously"

[dim moth]

(it doesn't)

[mighty belfry]

I don't use jittery cuz I don't need it IMHO but, it does add to this class breaking the rules of engagement

[supple torrent]

not even into armor?

[mighty belfry]

The benefjt

Is very minor.

[dim moth]

TWENTY damage

[reef spoke]

Tox has like 95% armor pen vs carapace

[ocean hollow]

35% finesse only applies on my weak spot hits though and on average I get 60% weakspot hits with shivs

[mighty belfry]

Tox already has crazy good ADMs so rending does barely anything.

[main trellis]

0.9 carapace & unyielding; there; rest is above 1.0

[dim moth]

it is 90% yes

[dim moth]

finesse is weakspot+crit

[reef spoke]

Lol

[mighty belfry]

What does do something is strength.

[supple torrent]

That 12 damage is all I needed.

[ocean hollow]

Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder.

[mighty belfry]

Wait

Do ya'll not know global strength affects DoTs???

[copper bronze]

is there some trick to the bonesaw that makes it not feel like hot ass? or is it just something you have to cope with

[dim moth]

needs a lot of cleave

[brittle sierra]

no

[ocean hollow]

Nah I need the gold number, it calls to me.

Do I swap my aura to crit though 🤔

[supple torrent]

I knew that. I just assumed rending boosted dot damage into armor

[reef spoke]

I personally do

[mighty belfry]

I mean I got people reacting like they didn't know that.

[reef spoke]

No it was more that we had no clue what you were asking

[final temple]

decimator, shock & awe and the battering strikes talent are mandatory to make it feel good.

[mighty belfry]

...It wasn't a question?

[copper bronze]

using those, feels like complete dogshit still

[pallid quail]

it was how u worded it

[reef spoke]

Even worse then because no one knew what you were talking about

[supple torrent]

Also swift endurance

[copper bronze]

already using it

this feels worse than playing ogryn somehow lmao

[exotic temple]

What blessings are you running?

[brittle sierra]

for bonesaw I use shred/shock

[supple torrent]

yeah ngl. idc if it's good with cleave. It feels awful to actually swing.

[dim moth]

shitty sound design and awkward attack angles moment

[copper bronze]

2 toughness 1 3stam + 2 stam on weapon, shock & awe + decimator

[reef spoke]

Doesn't help that it feels sluggish to use too :c

[supple torrent]

funny cus shiv light attack is Assassin and bonesaw light1 is vanguard . Sure doesnt feel like it though

[exotic temple]

That should work it should just need some cleave in the talent tree.

[copper bronze]

i have the cleave, it feels like dogshit lmfao

gonna finish levelling it then isntantly scrap it for ordos

[exotic temple]

Then probably not for you

[supple torrent]

I dont think their saying its bad. The weapon just feels bad.

[mighty belfry]

Bonesaw feel leaves a lot to be desired.

[pallid quail]

ill call it bad. im willing to die on this hill idgaf

[mighty belfry]

It's also just not great for mixed hordes

[zealous ravine]

i check here randomly and its bonesaw slander again

[mighty belfry]

I mean. Not really slander to be honest.

[brittle sierra]

random? 😈

im always here

[zealous ravine]

i was playing look outside until now lo

[exotic temple]

I think it’s just vibe issue. It’s my favorite weapon but I realize it’s not everyone’s cup of tea

[zealous ravine]

calling it slander is funnier

[mighty belfry]

Tru.

[exotic temple]

Im also running crit instead of decimator and hc with speed stims

[pallid quail]

its not slander if its the truth

[mighty belfry]

Nah there's some objectivity to people not really vibing with it. I like it but it's a weird one.

[supple torrent]

what sorta dps should a bonesaw be hitting into a crusher? on andrenaline rampage?

[mighty belfry]

They tried too hard to make a DoT melee.

[zealous ravine]

dot melee only for the dot to just feel ok and the weapon to slide off enemies

[supple torrent]

Or like should I switch to purple for single target armor?

[mighty belfry]

Anything flesh. Okay.
The second any armor is involved, and it just feels like shit.

[pallid quail]

if warp slice/blazing spirit meme sword worked wed already have it lol

[mighty belfry]

Honestly i wouldn't even mind them keeping it that way but the DoT count needs to be upped if they do.

[zealous ravine]

i wonder how a shiv dot build would do with its faster AS more crit and bleed procs

[mighty belfry]

But somethings gotta be done with bonesaw because it has some real issues right now that make it hard to really pick for me.

[exotic temple]

Yeah it’s different than the other melee options. I call it personality but it’s probably just too fussy for some people.

[copper bronze]

feels fantastic, the extra dot from crits + bleed on shivs helps your damage quite a bit

[zealous ravine]

by this point idk what shivs cant do

[verbal dew]

ok booby trap worked really well with chem dep

my scoreboards aren't saving fsr tho

[copper bronze]

clear out armour hordes lol

[zealous ravine]

doesnt it have best armor dmg outta the 3 unique melees anyways

[bronze glade]

You kill them one at a time like nearly every other melee tho

[bronze glade]

Cbar might be faster

Never actually tested them against each other

[verbal dew]

crowbar is not that bad when you don't have it as your main

[zealous ravine]

dunno cbar special is so unsafe you might just explode

[verbal dew]

it's nice to pull out every now and then

[bronze glade]

Yea shivs are just so much better.

[exotic temple]

Rampage crowbar you don’t really need the special attack

[bronze glade]

Rampage is kinda silly tbf

[heavy patio]

i like using bonesaw because its #thematic to the rest of my build

my whole character serves chem addict maniac and bonesaw gives me a melee for that

[supple torrent]

Theres nothing more addict coded than stabbing someone with an contaminated shiv

[exotic temple]

Poop knifing people

[supple torrent]

Wolfer getting killed by needle my scum shared with crackhead in hab54231-Alpha

[exotic temple]

Serves him right

[mighty belfry]

Wat

Shivs can decimate armor hordes lol

Arguably one of Scum's best for that purpose actually.

Shivs just do everything well other than horde control.

[supple torrent]

I saw a scum do it with light attacks once to clutch out the game. Cleave with toxin coating and just being untouchable.

Or it could have been the mark with cleave on heavy

I remember thinking the attack pattern looked kinda weird

[azure scroll]

If you're using chem grenades, is Pocket Toxin just redundant?

Except with elites/monstrosities.

[amber sundial]

pocket toxin only applies to the initial explosion of chem grenades iirc

[azure scroll]

Yeah, I know it's the initial explosion, but...

[astral canyon]

yes

pocket toxin only really works with blinders

[verbal dew]

ye

it's a shame you almost always gotta take the +1 blitz when going for tox blinders

when it's not really needed

[azure scroll]

So I guess my last question is which is better: 5% crit or +75% Coherency radius?

[supple torrent]

wait why would you be choosing between 5% crit and coherency

[azure scroll]

Idk. Just looking between things. I have the coherency one open on the right and I took the melee damage in the middle which has crit next to it. I won't say my talents are fully optimized. I just took the ones that fit how I like to play.

[supple torrent]

I personally dont care for coherency radius.

[azure scroll]

I sometimes forget about restocking my chems, so I decided against maxxed out chems.

[supple torrent]

But the crit node leads to Swift endurance

Which just makes every melee weapon feel better

Especially the slower ones like cbar and bonesaw

[azure scroll]

Ah, I'm just using the daggers atm.

[supple torrent]

Well there's probably more important stuff you can grab instead of coherency. If you dont care about coherency

[azure scroll]

I've been using Nimble. Will I feel it hard if I take it off?

[rough peak]

probably

[verbal dew]

I mean why would you

middle path is like the best

[rough peak]

The loss of dodge distance mainly

[supple torrent]

I wouldnt. It makes Scum feel unique

[verbal dew]

it's prob better if you link your whole tree

instead of asking hypotheticals

[supple torrent]

Also I forgot HC doesnt work with blinders. I really hope they'll fix that

[rough peak]

tis but a scratch does some work during a run

[supple torrent]

Since fatshark attempted to fix the dodge extension issue I hope they do something about HC not giving kill rewards

[dim moth]

I think this is blinders being bugged actually

because HC procs a few other on-kill effects like sample collector just fine

but blinders don't show their stack progress outside of local lobbies

[supple torrent]

Does toxin refresh blinders?

Or is it meant to?

[dim moth]

god I hope it isn't meant to

[supple torrent]

Thing is it feels weird when you kill something with coated weaponry but you dont get the reward

I know the shiv special is coded to regen charges if an enemy dies to poison like a second after you melee it

They could add something like to blinders if they want to keep it balanced.

Or do the stim supply method. 40 stacks to regen a blinder. Melee kills give 2 stacks toxin kills give 1. But thats if its a balance issue and not a technical one.

[light phoenix]

Hmm I feel like the Booby Trap subnode should be buffed

At least in range, could even make it so enemies further away receive less toxin stacks

[upbeat gyro]

Aw yes, hit lvl 30, went to check Brunts, and 2x 16% toughness curios waiting

[supple torrent]

doesnt 7 stacks kill anything thats weaker than a mauler?

[upbeat gyro]

And first random melk, third 16%

[light phoenix]

Yea I wasn't complaining about the toxin stacks but the aoe range

[supple torrent]

oh. yeah I can see that.

[light phoenix]

They can make it 7 at the centre, 3 at the stim crate border then 1 stack just outside the border

Or just... make it an actual Booby Trap and have it blow up when enemies are nearby

Maybe after 1s to prime so the Operatives can get some stim effects 1st

[supple torrent]

I wish either it or fast acting stimms were baked into the basic ability. Booby trap feels like a gamble without the latter especially since scum wants to keep moving,

I can play around the 5 second timer. alot better.

[bronze glade]

7 stacks is quite a bit

Chem nades only give 6

Granted, refreshing while in the AOE

[supple torrent]

Yeah they wanted the range to be buffed not the damage. I just skipped a whole sentence

Is coated weaponry worth on bonesaw?

[tropic crag]

it honestly works well as a simple bonus effect if you're going 5 second box and chem dep then you drop it at the start of a fight and it blows up to tox all the enemies that slam in after your first bit of killing... i've also had it save me from dogs

[tropic crag]

you have to get the nodes behind that node so its either that or +1 blitz

[supple torrent]

What a weird weapon. It feels like they want it be spammable tool for applying toxin while also oneshotting enemies.

[keen timber]

bonesaw just has a lot a lot of issues

[upbeat gyro]

Mission just gave me, thats optimal rolls with mobi dump stat?

[astral canyon]

Ye

[upbeat gyro]

Also just played my first Stim Supply + Chemical Dependancy mission, had no idea what it was doing but kept popping the medkit

[upbeat gyro]

Nice, saves me resources

[astral canyon]

Blessings and perks need tweaking though

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah obviously

Hmm.. lvl 7 on masteries, guess that will eat some resources then

Think i want needle pistol first

[final temple]

it’s not just the range. the whole mechanic sucks. it’s on a timer in situations where your team naturally is concentrated, tending to diminish enemy presence in the radius already. if it’s supposed to be a booby trap it should explode once X enemies are within the radius.

[covert obsidian]

On the bonesaw

what is the difference between green and purple effect?

[supple torrent]

green applies toxin. DOT. Purple applies brittleness. Target takes increased damage from all sources

[covert obsidian]

when to use which

I like green tbh

I love bleed/toxin

[supple torrent]

I prefer purple for crushers. Purple also helps a bit for bosses since it increases the damage they take from your team as well.

[covert obsidian]

got it

[supple torrent]

You can stack poison quickly on bosses with the pistol and then apply brittleness to boost the toxin damage

[covert obsidian]

kk

[bronze glade]

The only use case for purple is crushers prob

[supple torrent]

It feels goof against monstrosities if you have needle pistol. You'll hit max toxin stacks in one mag dump so might as well switch to purple.

[covert obsidian]

Oh no wonder I kept doing no damage

I used light attacks with bonesaw

I should be using heavies only, no?

[bronze glade]

No that’s right

[covert obsidian]

kk!

[supple torrent]

I think the combo is H1>L2 loop for single target. push attach>heavy>heavy for hodes

I think light1>heavy2 works for hordes if you want to save stamina

[covert obsidian]

got it ty

[dim moth]

have it pulse for 1 or 2 tox stacks every second the box is active and then explode

[supple torrent]

You also want to have swift endurance, shock and awe and some bonus cleave for bonesaw.

[light phoenix]

Yea that'll be easier to make some use of it

[bronze glade]

The combo is light spam

The heavies on saw are a joke

[light phoenix]

Sometimes get myself into more trouble than worth trying to time and position the Booby Trap

[supple torrent]

For horde clear?

[dim moth]

nah they're okay

the horde clear ones are alright since they actually have a real trajectory and better base cleave

[light phoenix]

Wish there's a variant with more horizontal swings

[dim moth]

strikedown ones do unironically very good damage into any of the unarmored health types

so unarmored/unyielding/maniacs

[bronze glade]

yeh

[dim moth]

also it's actually 2 hits so if it crits with coated weaponry it's 6 tox stacks

[bronze glade]

it's just really slow

[dim moth]

nothing to sneeze at

[bronze glade]

that's the problem

[low harbor]

green applies 1 chemtox on hit (2 on crit)
purple applies saw brittleness on hit

[exotic temple]

There is also a slide attack heavy that chains into a couple more strike downs. Makes elites kills ezpz

[supple torrent]

Actually does this thing have a reach of like 5m

Or maybe 3-4

[low harbor]

@bronze glade u playing?

[bronze glade]

just testing saw again

in light of the convo above lol

[supple torrent]

Oh wow I didnt realise melee weapons had that much range. I've been taking so many hits for no reason

[dim moth]

nah light 4 into heavy-haevy

light 4 has the same extra horde clear heavy that push attack does

[astral canyon]

Haevy

[dim moth]

I actually end up mostly using push for a second strikedown heavy after using saw more

[bronze glade]

Bonesaw (shock and awe + shred)

PA H H
50 groaners: 26.0s
20 scab bruisers: 17.4s

Light spam
50 groaners: 22.4s
20 scab bruisers: 13.4s

[spark gyro]

Light spam enjoyers

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kung-fu-ai-orange-cat-fight-gif-8725930490492900021

[bronze glade]

yeah this should give you a sense of how bad the heavies are

for hordes

[spark gyro]

Is the test for those just spawning them all on the same pixel and swinging at head height?

[bronze glade]

nah was too lazy for that

used creature spawner's trial system

[spark gyro]

Oh

[bronze glade]

if i try to spawn 50 groaners on the same spot, i'm likely to not spawn exactly 50 anyway

the difference in clear times is substantial enough that i don't think there's any need to spawn them all on the same spot

[marble basin]

So light spam on the bone saw is good for hordes?

[bronze glade]

i think it's the ideal combo for hordes

[drifting heron]

Isn't most its lights strikedown

With rip

[bronze glade]

no rip that i've noticed 🤔

but yeah there are strikedowns

still faster than sweeping heavies tho

[drifting heron]

I see pa heavy heavy or heavy light

[bronze glade]

i think rip's only on strikedown heavies?

i only tested PA H H and light spam this time

[upbeat gyro]

Just lost my auric maelstorm virginity, i guess fresh lvl 30 hivescum wasnt safest option for it

[bronze glade]

but i tested H L before too

[drifting heron]

Probably

[bronze glade]

basically anything that involves heavies is bad for BS horde clear lol

that's how slow the heavies are

[flat mist]

What attack speed are you testing with

[bronze glade]

idr, but i had one 3 stam curio and swift endurance

[drifting heron]

Weird weapon

[bronze glade]

no adren/rampage

[drifting heron]

Has a carapace alt but its too damn slow to use

Weird attacks

Mandatory rip

[bronze glade]

saw and cbar both need another look at

[flat mist]

It's also weird to me that the whole special mode damage profile has higher ADMs

Does like twice as much on relevant targets before brittleness is even applied

[drifting heron]

I think it makes sense

But you never get to use it

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/adachi-true-persona-persona4-smt-gif-27700163

[supple torrent]

cbar will be balanced when heavy 1 one shots everything

[spark gyro]

This reminds me: back when dueling sword was a psyker exclusive, rampage was actually super useful for it in great part because it made it easier for each individual attack to kill a poxwalker in a single hit

I think rampage also increased cleave, but I don't remember now

[drifting heron]

It does

[spark gyro]

The main thing was being able to one-hit a poxwalker in the head

[drifting heron]

Its a power increase

[spark gyro]

Based

I think it also has different versions across weapons then?

To my memory, the devil's claw one is damage

[drifting heron]

P sure dclaw is also power

[spark gyro]

This needs to be verified with haste

If I remember it later

[drifting heron]

Or not I guess

Damn

[slender fiber]

No, Rampage is just raw damage, no Strength.

[flat mist]

Rampage used to be (might still be) bugged to give you strength instead of damage

[spark gyro]

I remember I wanted it for some cleave breakpoint, but I don't remember what

I think it helped dueling sword cleave 3 poxwalkers back then

The cleave was like 3 and I needed the tier 4, I think

idk

[slender fiber]

I don't trust it much but according to the AI google response, supposedly Rampage does give Strength, but it says it gives only damage.

The only other thing I could find was a 2 year old Reddit post with 1 comment talking about it.

And that was when it was bugged and giving both damage and Strength.

[bronze glade]

thought you were talking about the ult rampage at first lol

[slender fiber]

Nah, just another naming situation like Desperado (blessing) and Desperado (ultimate)

[trim wind]

rampage is strength

did used to give both

[drifting heron]

Ok apparently the description is just broken either in game or on gameslantern and its actually strength

Thanks path

[slender fiber]

Ah, good to know

I've been operating under it being damage only this whole time

[upbeat gyro]

Uploading my first auric maelstrom mission with freshly leveled 30 hivescum on youtube. Hitting bed while uploading but maybe someone can point out tomorrow my biggest mistakes (there will be many)

Worst part was doing that one map i had not seen in 1½ year either, so at ending phase with capsules i was completely lost just dodging enemies in panic

[pallid quail]

was the toothpick even capable of proccing rampage reliably tho ?

[drifting heron]

Versus trash

[tropic crag]

yeah it worked for the reason you put it on there

[pallid quail]

not bugged the description is just wrong

[spark gyro]

Oh wait, I think I remember

I think I was looking for the 36% as a damage breakpoint, maybe

[drifting heron]

It can hit 3 poxwalker

[spark gyro]

The push was what gave it enough cleave

Push could hit 3 poxwalkers, while the lights couldn't

[drifting heron]

The lights can

[pallid quail]

[drifting heron]

4.5 cleave

[spark gyro]

Couldn't

I'm talking way back, when it was still a psyker weapon

[pallid quail]

yea i member i had a psyker back then

[spark gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/peaky-blinders-thomas-shelby-handshake-thomas-shelby-handshake-peaky-blinders-handshake-gif-11332102916281758180

[pallid quail]

man those were dark times ... put in a ton of hours on zealot to have enough resources to roll usable stuff on other classes

unlocked n loaded is kinda underappreciated as the best update ever

[flat mist]

Do you have literally any evidence that is the case? Because rampages description has always said damage. It used to give damage. Then one patch (eons ago) it changed to strength (then known as power). That's pretty conclusive evidence that it giving strength is a bug

[pallid quail]

why do i feel like im being cross examined here

[tropic crag]

or they swapped it to fix something else or make something else down the line work better with it and didn't change the description because to most players it functionally doesn't matter because more damage is more damage to them

like there are probably a number of reasons to change it that aren't a bug but because of you wanting to change the interaction

[teal quartz]

For the shivs is it better to have flak or carapace? Or just go unyielding?

[tropic crag]

and changing the one word in the description is an easy thing to just... not do because the impact is minimal

[pallid quail]

in the simplest terms im inclined to believe that the guy who actually writes the code has a better idea of what its intended function is than the guy who writes the descriptions

[tropic crag]

lol it might be a mix, might be the descriptions are written off of notes so someone accidently just mixed up words or just said "damage" at one point and they just ran with it

[flat mist]

Regardless, we have literally zero evidence for that so a bug is a more than reasonable way to define it (the most reasonable way)

[pallid quail]

even if we assume that its the same guy its entirely possible that after writing the code for it the incorrect description was merely an oversight

[tropic crag]

i think it depends on what you're using them for

[slender fiber]

I only go Carapace if I have Ruthless Backstab. Otherwise, I actually go for Maniac/Unyielding with Riposte/Flesh Tearer.

[flat mist]

It used to give damage and then changed, so that makes no sense

[pallid quail]

its always been str since like forever

[flat mist]

Except.its not since forever

It's since it changed from damsge

[tropic crag]

i actually think its ALOT less likely for something like a damage modifier to be flipped to a power modifier on accident... and find it ALOT more likely it was changed with reason but poor note keeping lead for there to be a breakdown in communications. If we're going for most likely that isn't a likely bug to happen

[teal quartz]

So if Im building with crit bleed/crit, go unyielding? Its kinda jank rn ngl

[near mauve]

got the rocket launcher penance done in 1 mortis game cause i got infinite rockets everytime on special/elite kill

[tropic crag]

because we'd see that bug in more places if something like that was happening in the game... we've seen bugs where the modifier turns off or overlaps with another modifers flags and get over written... but never it having the intended affect with a swapped modifier

[pallid quail]

i have no idea why theres this heuristic floating around that the descriptions (which are so often and notoriously vague or just flat out wrong that theres a mod to fix them) is supposed to be controlling over the way the code is actually written

its fuckin bizzare

[slender fiber]

Yeah, cause the shivs have crazy high profiles vs. unyielding. The catachan combat blade is similar.

[flat mist]

This is reasonable and I will concede

[slender fiber]

That damage vs. unyielding also applies to your bleed stacks.

[flat mist]

Except I will not concede to you because you're still not making relevant points

[teal quartz]

Awesome, thank you!!

[flat mist]

It changed from damage to strength without the description changing

Surely you can see how that invalidates what you're saying?

What wingnut is saying actually makes sense

[pallid quail]

to reiterate whoever wrote the code has a better grasp of hows it intended to function than whoever wrote the description

[tropic crag]

me and bog are bascially saying the same idea tbh just with different approaches, i don't think they are wrong at all and i think they are being reasonable in how they came to it

[flat mist]

Lmfao. The description was written BEFORE it gave strength

Just to reiterate

[pallid quail]

if i make a blender and wingnut sells it to you as a car that doesnt mean the blender is bugged

[flat mist]

What you're saying is ignoring the facts on the ground.

[pallid quail]

which only means the description wasnt updated the reflect the intent of the codes function

[tropic crag]

yeah which is what i took away from what you were saying and why i was sayign the same thing with different words

[flat mist]

Yes, so this isn't about giving more faith to the description than the coding

[pallid quail]

the only fact on the ground that matters is that the purpose of something is what it does

[tropic crag]

not faith, a reasonable assessment over which person makes the calls and which person responds to the calls made

[pallid quail]

everything else is just noise

[tropic crag]

one job is easy to reason as the "reactive" side and thats the description writing

[spark gyro]

I'm obsessed with making code, uh...

I'm not sure how to explain it

[flat mist]

If you two can't see how this doesn't make sense in the context of coding changing after the description is written I can't help you

[spark gyro]

Let's say that I just want to call a variable instead of a string as many times as I can

[tropic crag]

i mean its been a long time but from i remember thats fun until something goes wrong

[spark gyro]

So if the description is about giving X% of a specific stat, I'll pull from the part of the code where that stat is changed and call that on the string

So if the stat is changed to something else, the string automatically updates

Stuff like that

[low harbor]

it is melee_strength

[low harbor]

it is melee_strength

[flat mist]

Yes

[pallid quail]

if you cant see how irrelevant an unupdated description i suggest you see a doctor to get checked for whatever it is you seem to have

[low harbor]

I'm not sure this is the case

there're a bunch of power_level = 500 lines for attack templates

(the default power_level is 500 so this line literally does nothing)

[flat mist]

Youre getting confused. The conment of yours I was replying to suggested that it wasn't "unupdated" but that the writer had misunderstood what they were describing

Nice change of tune tho

[pallid quail]

because calling something a bug due to said unupdated description is preposterous

[low harbor]

there're also some really weird power_level modifiers

like, DC swords have 1 attack that have 515 power (the attack template gains 3% extra damage, stagger and cleave)

like wtf why

[tropic crag]

at that point you're just trading points at which it breaks tbh... because that is a great thing to put in (honestly it is) but it leads to them changing/breaking without people noticing... probably easier to fix tho lol

and both ways of doing it break down for the same reasons... poor note keeping and practices... if everyone is kind of on the ball then things like this don't happen as often but slip up on notes and something stays wrong for way too long with both systems

[flat mist]

Except we don't have evidence of that, and you didn't even know it had changed, and you suggested it wasn't uncoated but instead misinterpreted lmao

[pallid quail]

both are far more reasonable possibilities than assuming the function is bugged

[flat mist]

Wingnut made a good point..you didn't.. it's OK.

[vapid jungle]

What a tedious discussion.

[spark gyro]

I'll defer to you on that because I never worked as a programmer, and I could say I just fall into that classic where people have no clue how to think like me when reading the code

I do like making it as intuitive as possible to me

[supple torrent]

I feel like the Rampage debuffs are too much

[low harbor]

when I was doing weapon sections for the guide I wrote a java program for calculating stagger breakpoints for diff attacks

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[supple torrent]

0 stamina turns off so many buffs

[pallid quail]

im just applying some rly basic logic. youre doing backflips to justify calling something a bug based on a description

[flat mist]

I already said I was wrong. You just didn't contribute to that. You made completely illogical statements because you didn't have all the facts.

[pallid quail]

i like arguing with idiots. it makes me feel smarter

[vapid jungle]

Ill bet labeling them as idiots makes you feel smarter too. Always a mark of intelligence.

[tropic crag]

honestly at this point i've done alot more coding in my woodworking career (simple CNC coding) than i did in anything games related... i was just entering the games industry when it was crashing so i had to pivot hard . (plus i hated coding)

[spark gyro]

Oh, I remember the CNC classes

Teacher had us writing the bloody code on paper

[tropic crag]

lol floating variables create grenades if you're not careful enough with a CNC

[spark gyro]

"Learning" it was miserable because I learned nothing from those random-ass numbers

[final temple]

In general I would agree, but being an IT project manager myself I can absolutely guarantee that such common sense arguments are oftentimes shown to be optimistic idealism.

[spark gyro]

Wasn't it shit like "52 78 15 72 97"?

[covert obsidian]

I seem to suck with Rampage! and Saw

like badly

[spark gyro]

I remember there being a book or something full of what each number meant and what each number within each number meant

[spark gyro]

If you can't keep up rampage, use that modifier to get 1 second on taggable hits

[low harbor]

it's the bone saw's problem dw

[spark gyro]

With the saw, you also absolutely want that attack speed per stamina talent, if you don't have it yet

[covert obsidian]

Nah I just suck

[spark gyro]

Might as well get hypercritical too ig

[covert obsidian]

I just copied Reginald's build

might switch to Shivs

[spark gyro]

Skill skissue

[covert obsidian]

with Rampag

[spark gyro]

Shivs are absolutely nutty

[covert obsidian]

or Crowbar

[covert obsidian]

I love them

[spark gyro]

Another thing you could try, if you're not too into meta, is the devil's claw

[final temple]

reginald’s build is outdated afaik. was made back when talents were in different spots

[covert obsidian]

ehhh maybe

[tropic crag]

in the codes i write (i'm about to start back up) we have to hand code because the owner is too cheap to buy a shell to make it easier , so we have to hand write the code while also understanding the geometry we're putting in.... we used values like what you're describing but we would hand make all those values... because we did custom wood work so there was only a few "universal" programs

[covert obsidian]

ah

[spark gyro]

The parry counts as a heavy attack and you can use rampage to get 25% rending on it

[covert obsidian]

yeah I noticed that

is there a better rampage build

[final temple]

for bonesaw?

[covert obsidian]

ye

[vapid jungle]

Reginald just posted a new build on YT.

[final temple]

did he? let’s see!

[vapid jungle]

Check it out some good info in there.

[spark gyro]

Oh yeah, we did that too. We basically wrote the code, "debugged" it mentally and then we did it once on a piece to see if it was the correct result

[tropic crag]

honestly there are a few ways to make rampage bonesaw and they are all good

[spark gyro]

And by that I mean I leaned on everyone else that I was grouped with because I had no fucking clue about anything

[final temple]

https://youtu.be/xgW5eEJaIU0?si=fIo7XP896oMpYExR

[spark gyro]

I wasn't a particularly model student in high school tbf

[final temple]

that one, @vapid jungle ?

[spark gyro]

My performance there and in engineering is like night and day

[vapid jungle]

Yep

[tropic crag]

lol probably good practice, in the years i ran a cnc i def grew fond of ballistic glass and ballistic plastic stopper things... they saved me from getting a face full of shrapnel a few times

[spark gyro]

Bro doesn't order his curios in descending order

https://tenor.com/view/cat-wiggle-crazy-cat-zoomies-gif-9877358298643393466

[vapid jungle]

I think from playing and watching others play the toxin damage values are overtuned

[spark gyro]

Ours had like a box where we put the metal piece

[covert obsidian]

I think my main problem is that I don't know how to use saw

I like, just light with it

rarely heavy

because it's clunky

[spark gyro]

Then we just closed the glass and let the machine do the funny

[bronze glade]

sounds like you're a pro already

[spark gyro]

It's a slow-ass weapon tbh

[vapid jungle]

Light spam is effective

[spark gyro]

I think it was here that uhhh someone was talking about light being the optimal clear speed

For poxies and bruisers, at least

[final temple]

there are some talent choices in his first build I find rather curious than convincing. but the general sentiment is more in agreement

[tropic crag]

yeah woodwork is a bit more dangerous... there is no box just ballistic covering over the head and like 10 deadman safety offs in case you go down. The head will move between two fields, the left and the right, so you step right up to the running machine while its in the other field to remove the last piece and put a new one without setting off any of the deadman switches (depending on how you wrote the program you might be on a timer or you set it to wait for your prompt)

[vapid jungle]

Once you get the hang of the heavy light loop and not overcommitting on the saw part of the attack it feels pretty good

[tropic crag]

so when you set off a bomb in woodworking its... alot more exciting

i knew a guy who removed the balistic cover so he "could see better"... he isn't alive anymore

my old boss reached up under the cover to check which bit was in the head... it was still spinning... he barely got to keep all his fingers

that day was exciting

[pallid quail]

fair enough im just using it as a heuristic

[mighty belfry]

Wait.

Isn't Rampage "melee strength?"

[vapid jungle]

Please no.

[pallid quail]

[low harbor]

yes on both counts

[mighty belfry]

I'm asking a question.

[pallid quail]

pls scroll up weve been over this

[low harbor]

FS should get their YT subtitle guy to do item tooltips

[pallid quail]

dont worry the argument was nearly as idiotic as that time in arby chat they spent 3 days trying to figure out basic addition in regards to scoreboard

[vapid jungle]

Nah keep that guy where he is those subs are amazing

[mighty belfry]

Wait this was an argument

Why?

[pallid quail]

they should at least let me fix the french descriptions of the ogryn penances

[mighty belfry]

Like, it seems pretty straightforward to me.

[pallid quail]

like i said scroll up

[mighty belfry]

I'm at work. I'll check it soon.

That's why I was asking to begin with.

[final temple]

As an alternative to the Reginald build, I would propose this.

[tropic crag]

i actually prefer adren on bonesaw

[pallid quail]

trust me itll be way more interesting than me recounting it n also i dont wanna type that much

[tropic crag]

but chem dep super works on saw also

[tropic crag]

i would drop hyper crit and get more high value mid and right nodes tbh

but also

[flat mist]

It must feel bad that I was wrong but you still couldn't muster an actual decent argument to show why. You had to be saved by someone else.

[covert obsidian]

Ty

[vapid jungle]

I hope they do something about the stim recovery talents and cdr on stim supply. Feels clunky and unintuitive still.

[tropic crag]

having hypercrit on that build is fine

[final temple]

do a quick mockup on gameslatern and post it here, so that friendo can reference it 😉

[tropic crag]

lol but my builds are weird and off meta

riddled with comfort nodes i know are worse

[mighty belfry]

Look I ain't asking a question to bring up whatever drama yall were having. I just saw the statement popping up when I looked here and got confused.

[vapid jungle]

Also the stamina on dodge talent is such a comfort pick for me I don't think I can drop it

[final temple]

so what? offmeta is taking zealot by storm rn xD

[tropic crag]

basically, it apparently got changed without the description being changed to match... so possibly (idk because i've not confirmed anything) its currently just damage and not a power/strength buff... if it was changed it was probably to tone it down when mixed with HV

but also... who knows why it was changed

[vapid jungle]

The only thing were sure of is fatshark is horrendous at communicating game mechanics

[final temple]

name a more iconic duo.

[tropic crag]

i wish they communicated less tbh, more people would enjoy the game more if they knew less

[mighty belfry]

Huh. Yeah that is weird.

Even for fatshark.

[pallid quail]

drops a +int stim crate on u

[low harbor]

The in game attack table’s stagger values still wrong after 3y btw

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[tropic crag]

not really, i said above that the description not changing could be for a few reasons... most of them just forgetting to change it after the fact

[pallid quail]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-speech-bubble-1984-speech-1984-speech-bubble-apple-gif-3269348682872321810

[tropic crag]

lol listen man, the muppets is ALOT better when you don't see the giant men holding the puppets

[pallid quail]

i AM the man holding the muppets

[vapid jungle]

Remember the one update broke talent tree tool tips and it was just left that way for weeks. Pepperidge farm remembers.

[tropic crag]

we all wish we were as talented as muppet puppeteers

[flat mist]

Dude you made bad points. Suggesting someone else needs meds because you can't handle that is hilariously lacking in introspection. That's before we get into the huge indictment on your moral character that this whole "take your meds" line entails

[final temple]

sir. please remove your hand from my rectum.

[pallid quail]

remember when one update disabled an arby keystone for the whole summer ?

[mighty belfry]

It's more that if they changed it to damage, that's technically a nerf. And I don't think anything like that was even mentioned.

[tropic crag]

they were working on alot of things during the period so i imagine the talk went "oh man this got broke" "ok throw it in the next patch" and that just happened to be some weeks later

[mighty belfry]

Which. Why are they nerfing rampage if that is the case???

[pallid quail]

im actually a delightful critter c|:^)

[tropic crag]

and us not noticing the nerf and still liking the talent is proof the info wasn't really needed and the skill is fine tbh... it proves they were right to not care that much... where as the hitbox problems were apparent to the player instantly so they reacted fast

[vapid jungle]

How resource intensive is it to fix a tooltip?

[tropic crag]

its still very strong in its current stat

[tropic crag]

its more... its kind of dumb to put together a whole version just for something like that when you're already working on a tight and full schedule... so it just gets added to the pile and taken care of... its a non critical problem so the game can function while you focus on the big picture

[flat mist]

A delightful critter with poor moral character

[final temple]

now KISS.

[mighty belfry]

True but its also probably the thing on hive scum that really didn't even need to be touched in my opinion.

[tropic crag]

because like... when they make patches they test the whole patch together... so even small changes like that would require you to at least test those... so like... they are still going to be after everything else

and should be tested with the whole package

so its good practice to do it the way FS did it

the only time its not is if you're a solo dev because who cares

[pallid quail]

my moral character is just fine

[final temple]

what you are saying is that FS fixes it live.

[flat mist]

Hahaha you're sending gifs of a wizard throwing medication to suggest someone is acting insane. That's not what people with good moral character do.

[tropic crag]

i think they fix things like every game company does and they do a pretty good job... they just painted themselves into a corner by making the game so easy to break (but i think they made the right call here too because darktide pays for its magic in risky choices that lead to jank)

[final temple]

https://tenor.com/view/daddy-chill-gif-4825138080902567122

[mighty belfry]

I feel this is getting a little too personally heated over Fatshark's less than stellar communication of mechanics.

I really don't think me asking that question should be prompting all of this.

[final temple]

with great power comes great responsibility

[mighty belfry]

I'm just a stupid dog.

I have no power here.

[tropic crag]

honestly things were fine until me making a convincing argument was turned into a stick to swing at another person

[vale viper]

Interesting what happens on this server

[flat mist]

I'm just calling out shitty behaviour that marginalises people. If that's not chill then I'm fine with being seen that way

[low harbor]

This chat is pretty in character for the class

[tropic crag]

lol but now you understand why people reacted to you when you asked for it to be brought up again , no one was mad at you for asking a question, everyone just thought we were through the woods and you were like "IT WAS A CLEAAARRING"

[mighty belfry]

IT WAS THE FIRST THING THAT POPPED UP

I just saw it and wanted to ask!!!

[tropic crag]

i'm not blaming you at all, you were merely the message bearer and not responsible

[pallid quail]

u dont need to call attention to urself being sanctimonious

[flat mist]

Well actually its always the goblins fault

That's why we stick em in the stew

[final temple]

I’ve been sitting on the shitter and my legs went numb. I wanna leave but this is riveting.

[pallid quail]

its not ur fault u only brought it back up

[tropic crag]

the answer is almost always it peters out then is forgotten

[flat mist]

Responding to pathos directly replying to me and tox gobllin by implication is calling attention to myself? Just stop man haga

[final temple]

great. and how do I get off this mess? gotta crawl…

[vapid jungle]

You're gonna get a hemorrhoid homie

TIME TO PREPARE THE H

[vale viper]

https://tenor.com/view/its-only-game-why-u-gif-12588970809860221655

[final temple]

oh ffs.

[vapid jungle]

The bryzgalov meme is an all timer

[final temple]

I am too old to get hemorrhoids

[flat mist]

Just keep straining

It's worth the minor surgery and slightly violated feeling for 24-72 hours after

[near vapor]

shouldve seen the weirdos that pop up in lore and gen sometimes

[vale viper]

I'm scared

[upbeat gyro]

Click if you wanna see freshly lvl 30 noobscum panic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqhGz1jAyzo

[vale viper]

What's the desired dumpstat for Needle Pistol? Mobility?

[dim moth]

anything except for mobility/ammo

those are the only two stats that matter

[vale viper]

Oh

okie

[carmine solar]

do teammates get the toughness from chem fortified with stimm supply or is it only me?

[vale garden]

Is the main scoreboard mod working yet?

I went to download it and it seems like it hadn't been updated?

Or is there a new scoreboard?

[brittle sierra]

Damage

[brittle sierra]

Toughness branch is probably the worst branch by a landslide

Because it only accounts for missing toughness

[unreal stirrup]

damage 💀

oh nvm im stupid

needler

but yeah damage

[carmine solar]

i mean the keystone modifier for chemical dependency

chem fortified

[unreal stirrup]

you don't want to dump stability on needler since it affect your hipfire

[brittle sierra]

Oh that

[carmine solar]

if i use stimm supply, do teammates also replenish 50% toughness or no

[brittle sierra]

I mean 15% toughness damage reduction is like

Eh

[mighty belfry]

Not with the keystone node.

It's only you.

Since you're the one that's dependent on your drugs.

[carmine solar]

are you trying to shame me

[golden lark]

wtf just randomly in the shop lol

[mighty belfry]

That is.

Unfortunate.

[golden lark]

why?

[dim moth]

fake

[mighty belfry]

It's not real.

[dim moth]

he's a LIAR

that curio is not +3

[golden lark]

I mean it's in the shpp and it shows +3 though...

and why are people saying it's fake?

[mighty belfry]

+3 Stam curios that are 400 rating are not +3.

It's a bug.

[golden lark]

oh wow lol

what level do they need to be?

[pallid quail]

410

[golden lark]

how have they not fixed this bug yet LOL

[mighty belfry]

Still haven't fixed this after

[brittle sierra]

420 🫦

[mighty belfry]

...since the game started.

[golden lark]

a known bug that seems pretty insanely easy to fix by rearranging some numbers

weird

not a coder but... wth?

[mighty belfry]

I'm honestly not even sure why they have ratings in the first place.

[brittle sierra]

Have you ever worked in netcode?

[mighty belfry]

The actual values of the curio benefits would have been enough lmao

[golden lark]

not a coder.

[brittle sierra]

Yeah

[limber cradle]

To force us to search for the illusive 430

[brittle sierra]

I mean Fatshark is a relatively large company so don't look at me

[pallid quail]

weird holdover from the old system

[mighty belfry]

A holdover that has resulted in this weird bug with the Stam curios

[golden lark]

the closest thing I have come to coding is editing a filter in poe lol... and with my essentially zero knowledge of coding, alls I am saying is, seems weird that they haven't fix this number thing

[brittle sierra]

Like I said, netcode is a different beast

[golden lark]

ah

[limber cradle]

There's a lot I'd take them fixing before the number thing

[golden lark]

I don't even know what netcode is either LOL

[limber cradle]

Like poxbursters rn

[golden lark]

What's wrong with poxbursters?

[brittle sierra]

Google is your friend

[pallid quail]

everything

[mighty belfry]

What isn't wrong with them right now???

[brittle sierra]

🕵🏻

[golden lark]

you should have linked a let me google that for you link LOL

[limber cradle]

Yeah I'm not sure i can even articulate what's wrong with them succinctly, they're just borked. They behave really strangely rn.

[mighty belfry]

Poxburster behavior is all kinds of fucked right now.

[golden lark]

no but really, I am serious, I don't know what's wrong with them

[brittle sierra]

When everything is wrong with them

Nothing is wrong with them 🧠

[limber cradle]

They're leaping from unpushable ranges, they're not blowing up when you do push them

Sometimes you can push them three times in a row and they don't really give a fuck

[golden lark]

ok that's true, I have noticed that often times that they attack me, I push them, and nothing happens

[limber cradle]

I don't understand what hive scum update did to them tbh

[mighty belfry]

Blowing up randomly. Leaping from way longer ranges. Ignoring pushes. Getting pushed but not actually blowing up even if you're the one they're targeting

[golden lark]

if I push them and they don't blow up I just shoot them as long as team isn't around

[golden lark]

ya true, I have noticed all of these things

thanks

[pallid quail]

idk y ppl r only noticing this now

[limber cradle]

Cause it got more prevelant post scum update

[brittle sierra]

🦖

[limber cradle]

It used to be every few bursters was weird

Now it's all of em

[pallid quail]

theyve been weird n fucked up since the map overhaul like a year ago

[golden lark]

I mean, I have been playing since their first major patch (the talent tree patch), so I have noticed these things... I just notice it in the moment and think "fuck that's annoying oh well shoot it" lol

[pallid quail]

esp with the bs bursters that instaspawn in doors if ur anywhere near them

[golden lark]

hahahaha ya true

[brittle sierra]

You can't shoot poxbursters when they are in a mixed horde unfortunately

[golden lark]

ok so, besides knife zealots (hehe) what are the most annoying things in the game? 😛

[mighty belfry]

Smykers

[limber cradle]

Like, player wise or

[brittle sierra]

Knife Zealot's are annoying?

[golden lark]

it was a joke

just a meme I have noticed that tons of people hate knife zealots

[limber cradle]

It's old tbh

[brittle sierra]

That's like a 2023 thing

[limber cradle]

I haven't seen a true blue knife zealot in awhile

[golden lark]

nobody plays them anymore because they suck? Or did people just get better lol

[brittle sierra]

I wish I see more knife Zealots

[mighty belfry]

The knife zealots I see these days are actually competent.

But rarer.

[brittle sierra]

Better?

HAHHAHAHAHAHAA

[golden lark]

god damn this guy thinks we all suck! 😛

[brittle sierra]

I mean I'm garbage

When I played Psyker on my 30 run I did less damage than the scum

I'm trash

[tranquil fjord]

smite psyker

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1272804331497979935/1450700850132418651/Kill_All_Smykers.gif

[spark gyro]

I WITNESSED THE SHOT OF THE GODS

[golden lark]

oh god ya, every time I play with a smite psyker I just think "I'd rather you deal damage please"

[spark gyro]

DIVINE JUSTICE UNLEASHED

[golden lark]

I'ts like playing with a heal bot in monster hunter games

like... please just kill things

[brittle sierra]

Smyker is probably one of the strongest Psyker builds in the game atm

That's not why we hate it 💀

[golden lark]

is it though? I guess I haven't played with a single good one

[spark gyro]

What huge cleave will do to a mf

[mighty belfry]

EP smite is busted.

[brittle sierra]

Define "good"

[mighty belfry]

Scrier's Gaze with that means the entire game is going to be smited basically.

[golden lark]

as you know that's very difficult since it's entirely subjective

but not dying a fuck ton as a support is a good starter

[brittle sierra]

There are supports in this game?

[golden lark]

some builds yes

[brittle sierra]

What

Wait define "support"

I'm confused

[mighty belfry]

The purge smite psyker i played a h40 with thinks so.

[brittle sierra]

Bubble smite is peak change my mind

[mighty belfry]

The humble sniper waiting for your shield to go down.

[spark gyro]

The single poxwalker seeing the smite spammer having a bad case of tunnel vision for the 27th time in the match

[spark gyro]

süssig

[tranquil fjord]

it can guarantee very safe runs but its a very slow playstyle and "shuts the game off"

[brittle sierra]

White people should be banned

[vale viper]

Looks good

[tranquil fjord]

bad smykers crumple like paper when smite doesnt work

[winter tusk]

Soussegeraowl

[spark gyro]

and also when it does

https://tenor.com/view/car-car-garn47-garn47-typing-on-computer-typing-gif-11595001339764965535

[winter tusk]

Bah ol ah wah uh

[brittle sierra]

Me playing the "support" class by killing everything for my team

[mighty belfry]

Bad smykers can also get you killed.

[spark gyro]

smeekers

[tropic crag]

its not a bug, its just rounding, if you're talking about the stam curios situation. Its a quirk of a system we otherwise never notice because most things it affects are more incremental, stam just happens to have a weird value fall in a weird spot to showcase the quirk in rounding the game has... so its probably a floating value and not a static number so to "change it" they'd have to change the system under it

which would change all the displayed numbers in the shop

[spark gyro]

idfk slap a round function on the result or something

[tropic crag]

ehhhh it doesn't matter tbh, stam on curios is a noob trap in like 99% of cases

including scum lol

including when they run the node

[bronze glade]

wat

stam curios bad?

[drifting heron]

The humble push attack weapon

[mighty belfry]

...wait what

[tropic crag]

every time we have this talk you guys call me dumb

[drifting heron]

Have you considered it is perhaps because you're wrong?

[tropic crag]

i think that base level stam gives you more than enough attack speed, and that you're better off going 3 toughness curios and taking stam regen on them instead of more stam

[mighty belfry]

but you're saying that as though it's a noob trap in general

which

[tropic crag]

naw this isn't the first tide take people called me dumb over for years before it became "common knowledge" that my take was a good one

[mighty belfry]

i'ma be real man, like

veteran

without a stam curio

feels like ass

[tropic crag]

stam in general is a noob trap tbh, i run stam regen on vet... feels way better than extra stam because of how the game treats stam when you dont' have enough for different actions

stam regen even enables more movement than extra stam

because of how sliding works

[tropic crag]

lol thats alot of nodes

what are you going full tox for

[woeful hill]

H40 party finder is so funny

[mighty belfry]

i can't really justify not having a stamina curio especially with weapons that are push attack intensive

[bronze glade]

“Guys check out my tox build!!”

[drifting heron]

Just take both

[tropic crag]

oh is that someone who applied to your team?

[drifting heron]

Shrimple

[woeful hill]

yeah

instant accept

[mighty belfry]

like, scum, maybe just because they already have amazing stamina efficiency

[tropic crag]

but then you lose toughness... the toughness is better

[drifting heron]

On vet

Who hits 200 for free

I'll be fine

[tropic crag]

they are gonna poison everything

[drifting heron]

The stamina is worth it

[tropic crag]

if i dont' need stam i take an hp for more effective health overall, stam regen is all i ever need because it acts as infinite stam functionally

or at least spreads the downtime out

[drifting heron]

I take both

3x stam regen and a stam curio

[tropic crag]

i will forever stay in the "people are over valuing a bigger bar on stam" club because this isn't darksouls

[bronze glade]

Stam is a pretty important source of damage mitigation, and potentially dps too

[mighty belfry]

no i value it because i understand the importance of push attacks

[drifting heron]

I play tac axe

[tropic crag]

thats super pointless tbh

[drifting heron]

And crusher

I need it

[limber cradle]

It's got a dodge button and I can swing a sword, so

[bronze glade]

Saying stam is a noob trap is kinda wild

[mighty belfry]

and that you want to use them a lot on a lot of weapons

[tropic crag]

(you can push attack without having enough stam to do it, you can also block attacks during these pushes without enough stam and not get put in stagger mode... so you can push non stop with only stam regen, trust me i push more than anyone in the game)

[drifting heron]

Stamina prevents me from getting hit enough to justify it

[drifting heron]

If you get hit at zero you take half your health because you guard break and eat shit

[mighty belfry]

and the second something hits you when you're at 0 stam and you get stunned

[tropic crag]

how? you shouldn't be blocking and you can slide with regen to gain enough stam to keep sprinting

[mighty belfry]

then what?

[drifting heron]

I don't like that

[drifting heron]

Push attacks

And sprinting

[tropic crag]

that literally never happens with 3 stam regen on, if it does you are doing something very very wrong because you can literally push when you dont' have enough stam to stop that animation

[mighty belfry]

you still have a stamina delay to consider

[tropic crag]

if you push with 1 stam its the same as pushing with full cost

[mighty belfry]

maybe not with psyker, arby or scum though

[tropic crag]

you should be timing things so you dodge after the pushes....

[drifting heron]

And if I get hit during that attack I eat shit

[tropic crag]

the attacks will bounce bfore the push unless its an overhead... and that would be a mistake that you're covering with a block and not actually good

[drifting heron]

Ragers

[tropic crag]

and with this when you have 3 stam regen you can slide twice and then keep sprinting, you might take a few pings to your toughness but everyone has a way to deal with that

[drifting heron]

I need to push attack to stagger but the attack needs to connect

[tropic crag]

dont' block ragers, pulse them, you can dodge the start of the surge then just go back in right before the combo ends and get them, if there is more than one then you REALLY don't want to block them

[drifting heron]

So i push, get hit, break, and take a bunch of damsge

[mighty belfry]

with a horde possibly blocking any opportunity of actually getting a dodge off

[tropic crag]

thats what the push is for... if its too dense for a push then you made a mistake and its not good

at that point you throw a blitz at your feet or something

[drifting heron]

I'm not blocking them intentionally I'm doing a pa and then getting hit

[mighty belfry]

you will inevitably have to block even if the intention is not to actually block

[drifting heron]

The hit eats my swing and then the next 6 hit me for free

[tropic crag]

don't push attack them at all if you are their target, pusle them, you dodge early back then move forward again for a tiny bit to hit them mid combo then you dodge back or to the side and repeat

[drifting heron]

I am playing tac axe

[tropic crag]

thats if you dont' have the cc to just make them sit

[drifting heron]

Push attack is THE ragers button

[mighty belfry]

Like maybe you don't see much value in stamina. And that's fine.

[tropic crag]

then you push the sides, do the same thing but pulse sideways and shove their side

[mighty belfry]

But calling it a "noob trap"

Is honestly a wild take.

It's quite literally the very opposite.

[tropic crag]

i call it a noob trab because it looses value the better you play

[mighty belfry]

You could argue that for health or toughness too though.

[tropic crag]

no

[mighty belfry]

"Just don't get hit."

[tropic crag]

not at all

[drifting heron]

It gains value because it lets you do more

[tropic crag]

it doesn't, stam regen lets me do more, max stam doesn't do anything at the end of the day... at least not enough to lose DR for it

[drifting heron]

Both let you do more

[limber cradle]

Every curio type is a noob trap tbh, real pros don't need the crutches

[tropic crag]

but one takes the slot of DR

[drifting heron]

Ok

[tropic crag]

the other takes a free slot

[drifting heron]

Use the stamina to get hit less

[tropic crag]

how does the stam help me against my team pushing a burster right before i do and causing me to take the burst? Stam wont' save you there... the DR will

[drifting heron]

It'll help you everywhere else

[tropic crag]

DR helps me at times that max stam wouldn't AND during the times that max stam would

DR is just such a high value stat in tide games that i think its absolutely crazy to not use the main slots we have for it to increase the DR itself or to add on EHP to raise that DRs overall effectiveness

or rather, its crazy to act like anything else is actually the meta choice

[drifting heron]

Cool

[mighty belfry]

Not only that but, I'm fairly certain that toughness curios

Do nothing against poxbursters

[drifting heron]

Thats your opinion I guess

[mighty belfry]

Maybe health tho

[tropic crag]

They give hp DR... at least i seem to take less hp damage when i take bursts when swapping around them to test setups

either way toughness is just good lol because of how it interacts with health

like even if it did nothing against bursters

[drifting heron]

Stamina is also good because of how it interacts with your entire offensive ability

[tropic crag]

no this is why stam regen is good

[drifting heron]

Both is good

Take both

[tropic crag]

thats where the noob trap happens for me, i wouldn't call it a noob trap if it wasn't so repeated tbh

it would just be something peopel do sometimes otherwise

but its the fact that people repeat it as gospel is what makes me call it a noob trap for new comers

[scenic glacier]

Mythical convo going on

[drifting heron]

Yeah I really don't know what they're going for

[tropic crag]

at least we're talking about darktide

[mighty belfry]

When I think noob trap, I think wounds honestly.

[tropic crag]

wounds are just a noob move because everyone will call you bad for it with stam people will tell you that its the best move when you do it