hivescum-class

[main wagon]

I liked Kruber for being Dude McGuy

[tropic crag]

i sucked at vt1 only got really into this series with the second game tbh, the came straight here because i prefer 40k over fantasy

[tropic crag]

but i do love bardin

[main wagon]

I totally skipped VT2 but I owned it because Humble Bundle gave it away years ago

So I got the cosmetics when Darktide released lmao

[spark gyro]

I played VT1 for like 10 minutes, realized I couldn't disable the screen shake and refunded

[main wagon]

I did not know the orange psyker eyes were Sienna’s

[spark gyro]

Least I got to keep the waystalker skin for VT2

[main wagon]

Someone asked me one game and I was like “maybe it’s a world choice like Cadia? Idk I just had them”

[spark gyro]

The world if Kerillian had normal fucking eyes

[main wagon]

I didn’t know enough about Vermintide to recognize which tattoos were those either

[tropic crag]

thats me with every one of those types of cosmetics, don't even realize they're special

[supple torrent]

VT2 is worth just pull out the glock on saltzpyre

Or get the true martyrdom zealot experience

[tropic crag]

greathammer slayer is just... pure comfort gaming

[main wagon]

My first ever job at 15 was at a Chuck E Cheese and my general manager had Kirellian’s eyes

Literally like no difference beteeen pupil and iris, just darkness

[spark gyro]

Demonic creature

[main wagon]

Like a demon from Supernatural

Yeah

“We’re making magic at Chuck E Cheese, how can I help you?”

[spark gyro]

Did you exorcise your manager

[main wagon]

What a bold faced lie we opened with

Funny you mention exorcism

The time I worked at CEC was the worst time to work at Chuck E Cheese

[supple torrent]

I doubt this is going to be funny. more like horrifying

[main wagon]

Because Five Nights at Freddy’s was popular

Like peak MatPat FNAF wave

The amount of far kids in Minecraft tees that would run up to me at the stamp station to be like,

”HAVE U HEARD OF FIVE NIGHTS AT FREDDI???”

I did enjoy lying about the animatronics though

I told one kid not to make eye contact with Pasqually

Fun Fact: Becaude COVID shut down Chucky’s child gambling ring, they actually created a ghost kitchen called “Pasqually’s Pizza” and sold food during the lockdown

[abstract inlet]

I want a mod that replaces anarchist dialogue with krieg from borderlands 2

[main wagon]

By then I was long gone but even back then it shocked me how many people genuinely turn up for the food

I had two women come in once and when I asked if they were here for a birthday, they deadass just went “Nah we’re here for chicken”

CEC pizza bangs, the chicken is just okay IMO but I respected the move so after radioing back to be like “Yo people can just come in and grab food right?” I was like “Well screw it, you’re here. Want the stamp just for fun?”

Another fun fact is that some of the kiddie room “games” literally run on a dusty PC with an empty Windows 98 desktop, sans a shortcut for the game exe

[abstract inlet]

Significantly less expensive than actual cabinets I've heard

[main wagon]

I’ll bet

[ionic plover]

loving how my crackhead looks

still miffed enlightened reading backpack isn't available for scum, for whatever reason

[abstract inlet]

Aren't we borderline heretical tho?

[odd brook]

They're not against mankind as a whole, hence fighting heretics and chaos when it comes down to it

[abstract inlet]

We're fighting because the heretics are fucking up business

[odd brook]

Yeah, doesn't necessarily mean you're against the big E

[abstract inlet]

Hence why I said borderline

Aren't we borderline enough that we're inelligible for reading?

[sonic pumice]

Someone have good source for desperado builds that use duap autopistols, Inf Autogun and the shredder? need some guides to make builds for each one

[ionic plover]

fem Outlaw seems to just find the heretics very annoying

[abstract inlet]

But that's commie aunt and grandpa

[odd brook]

Talent or actual weapon blessing/perks

[abstract inlet]

Anarchist is a sadist

[sonic pumice]

talent tree, i feel blessings at least have it somewhat figured

[abstract inlet]

Bounty hunter is a sociopath

[abstract inlet]

Look up tanner desperado on yt, use shredder instead

[odd brook]

I have notes in my guide for why I take stuff and what can be swapped

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0b6dbc2-e931-4cc5-9a7e-5ff819dda66e/tres?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

This is what I run in all my 40s though

If you reload it my linked vid should pop up again

Honestly I wouldn't recommend shredder/dual over agri braced/vraks infantry, those 2 literally just blow through everything

Dual works still but I feel like you're reloading too much vs how much you can kill

[sullen ridge]

i started hitting 60% crit on my stubby scum

its peak

[odd brook]

Vraks scaling is absolutely insane if you can hit headshots, agri braced has tons of cleave to make up for more body shots, penning ragers and shotgunners is a big deal

[bronze glade]

haha very funny

good one bro

[sullen ridge]

strength stacks multiplicatvely right? think it would be better to swap one of these two out for deathspitter?

fire frenzy and ceaseless have big ol numbers and all three of these would have like 80% uptime

[odd brook]

Definitely need deathspitter, most people run ceaseless+deathspitter but I prefer getting more DMG on all targets, deathspitter also gives more suppression anyways and the gun already innately does it well enough

So I personally do death+fire

[sullen ridge]

strength gives suppression wtf

ty for the info

[unique spire]

I never knew that ceaseless barrage existed

Change that shit

[odd brook]

It is a good blessing

Turns off gunner seeds after 7 shots

[sullen ridge]

yea suppression is really underappreciated i feel

[odd brook]

Tied 2nd place for it, death on top then ceaseless/fire

Cause it also widens your suppression cone

I just... Shoot the gunners or desperado them lol

[bronze glade]

it's nice but relying on it or building for it? massive mistake.

[abstract inlet]

I love! LOVE! Making gunners SHUT THE FUCK UP for a minute

[bronze glade]

killing them makes them shut up for more than a minute 👍

[abstract inlet]

True

Which is why I've ignored it till now

[odd brook]

You'll definitely appreciate it in high havoc dark carnival, that first drop after first med station I've seen 13 reapers lmfao

But again you can just desperado and it's kind of dead

[abstract inlet]

I'm bad at timing desperado, so I often find myself without it when i need it

[reef rose]

just finished a HISTG carnival in the dark

you are absolutely correct

[odd brook]

I really like the cdr node on it, it's roughly 11% cool down when you have max chem dependency + cdr on curios

[reef rose]

how many reloads are you sneaking into a well timed activation

[odd brook]

11% feels worth the talent point

[reef rose]

I figure that's where most of the garbage time goes

[odd brook]

Well timed? Idk, a lot lol

[reef rose]

as silly as it sounds I've been thinkin a max reload speed bolt pistol might be hilarious with desperado

everything's one or two shots to kill and it's like, 2.4 seconds to reload at 80 iirc

[odd brook]

Should also have the reload talent, it does a lot of heavy lifting

[reef rose]

valid, I'd stack all of em

[abstract inlet]

I'm pretty sure they don't count bolter aoe for desperado cd, but i may be wrong

[reef rose]

I just wonder how much time would go to reloading as wasted time on your remainder

about all guns really

autorifles seem like a solid mix of sustained fire to reload time

[abstract inlet]

Dropped dbl because of that

[reef rose]

but you can only realistically sneak one, maybe two reloads in

[odd brook]

Yeah braced gets the most out of each mag

I swear some of the nastier fights I've gotten 5 reloads in a desperado in the video in my build

[reef rose]

using which?

[odd brook]

Agri braced

[reef rose]

ok cool, I'll start with braced then

all the variants reload at the same pace, don't they?

[odd brook]

Blowing away hordes and getting multi stacks of time back since I'm cleaning with the agri

Cleaving*

Yeah they're all about the same

[reef rose]

besides, braced just feels cool to use

[odd brook]

It really does. And sticky fingers lets you burst fire snipers

[reef rose]

https://tenor.com/view/ork-warhammer-waaagh-gif-25817947

[odd brook]

So you're not even down bad for ranged

[reef rose]

which variant are you using most often?

[odd brook]

Agri for sure

[reef rose]

I feel like the tiny one would really only be useful for horde clear

[abstract inlet]

I wish graia wasn't bad, that ones my fave

[reef rose]

and not anything wearing more than a shirt

middle felt all around fine, and agri felt like it didn't sustain as well as the other two

but I've hardly used brautos besides for a chuckle so I'm no expert

[odd brook]

Graia fires fastest, needs braced to out DPS single target, but agri has tightest spread, cleave, highest DMG per shot, ramps better over all

[bronze glade]

Agri is great

Though in general the brautos need a lot of help

[reef rose]

right on, I thought since the hiver's class weapons were all tiny high rate of fire that's what they'd mesh with for common pool weapons

[abstract inlet]

Vraks doesn't seem to have anything worthwhile

[odd brook]

The secret sauce for agri is crit, hence crit stim + chem dependency

[reef rose]

okay, could pair well with the bonesaw setup I'm using

[odd brook]

Yeah vraks is the middle child, not accurate enough at range, not best single target, still no cleave

[bronze glade]

Wat

Brauto?

[odd brook]

Yeah

[bronze glade]

The crits are worthless

[odd brook]

????

[bronze glade]

Near worthless

Brautos have trash tier finesse

[reef rose]

I'm already aiming for crit maxing as a soft goal for my setup and playstyle as is

[odd brook]

It's roughly 25% increase, with maniac + ramped up a crit one taps a trapper lol

[bronze glade]

Not worth building for

[reef rose]

does the 2% attack speed per stamina pip talent apply to your ranged rate of fire?

[odd brook]

No

[bronze glade]

For reference good finesse is about 60 percent

[reef rose]

I dared to hope

[odd brook]

It's the most consistent DPS increase you can get on top of your perks, rending you max out from desperado anyways

[bronze glade]

Building for crit on brauto is a waste of time

Congrats you get to do 25 percent more damage 15 percent more of the time

[odd brook]

I average 60% crits across an entire game

It also crit strings

[bronze glade]

Even with crit strings it’s trash

[sonic pumice]

the Agri braced feels odd tbh, its quite slow but feels that if running stim supply it could work to hold choke points, IAG definely puts the most damage so no argument there

[odd brook]

You get enough raw from blessings/tree, diminishing returns makes crit the next best thing to invest into

It's basically another perk on all targets

[mighty belfry]

don't matter when the finesse multi is ass

Brautos don't synergize too well with crit heavy setups unfortunately.

[sullen ridge]

braced auto is so funny

[odd brook]

Ok so what are you investing into instead then

[sullen ridge]

it feels like ass but its on par with my stubs and was matching a really good dual stubbs scum in havoc 25

[odd brook]

I beat flame psykers in h40

[sullen ridge]

what should i be building it for if not crit

out of hive scum tree

[supple torrent]

damage?

[mighty belfry]

Damage.

[sullen ridge]

ive already got all those nodes

[mighty belfry]

It has good base damage.

[odd brook]

Diminished returns from all the damage you already take

[supple torrent]

durability

[bronze glade]

Better than spending on a keystone and talents to boost the dogshit finesse

[supple torrent]

You can also greed for sample collector on most builds

[sullen ridge]

so like, desperado and stim refresh, spamming strength stims whenever possible?

[supple torrent]

Thats on option

thats how I run my scum

[spice cloud]

Strenght plus cdr once desperado runs out

[supple torrent]

I prefer chem dep with 50% stimm for desp. Going all in for strength

I just find it more interesting playing around maxxed out chems

[sullen ridge]

pressing 5 too much mental strain

[supple torrent]

waiting for autostimm mode to make chemdep playable

[tropic crag]

chem dep is super playable tho, just keep pressing f after the first double for the early 2 stack

[supple torrent]

Im joking.

[tropic crag]

lol i've heard enough people complain about it

[supple torrent]

hot take. maxxed out chems should be baked into chem dep

[final temple]

there are a lot of talents that kinda feel more like tax than exciting

[odd brook]

Durability where lol

[sullen ridge]

i just want to be able to afford jittery

[mighty belfry]

jittery is propaganda

🗣️

[sullen ridge]

too bad three points just to get stimm CD on kill

[mighty belfry]

don't need it

[sullen ridge]

jittery is perma invincible

[supple torrent]

thats heresy

jittery is never leaving my builds

[sullen ridge]

u dont need it but having it feels so good

[odd brook]

Jittery is based

[final temple]

I honestly never felt I needed it. it’s good. but necessary? nah.

[supple torrent]

Swap just a scratch with jittery

pls

[mighty belfry]

the funny thing about jittery since i usually run melee rampage is that it stops working when i technically need it the most lmao

[supple torrent]

I really want to pair jittery with the regain stamina on dodge node

But I don't have enough points

[spark gyro]

Jittery follows the wound logic

Taking it makes it easier to not reach the point where it's not working

Just like people don't take wounds because it's easier to take something that makes them not need the wound

Jittery does fall off when you're low on stamina and all that, but the idea is that jittery is helping prevent you reach that point in the first place

[spice cloud]

Definetly keep tis but a scratch.

[mighty belfry]

ya know what

[spice cloud]

That and the stamina for dr and dmg are mandatory imo

[supple torrent]

I want to swap it to save a point on my gun scum builds

[mighty belfry]

let's try having both jittery and regained posture

maybe i'll change my tune on this

[spark gyro]

Bro is regaining the shrimp posture

[torn rapids]

Apologies for a dumbass question but the stim crate still counts towards active cartel special heavy attack penance right?

[tropic crag]

honestly i find it hard to run out of dodges without jittery

[spark gyro]

Just like TWBS

Once you get used to not having it, using it feels redundant

[spice cloud]

Not sure actually

I think so

[spark gyro]

It should, I got the penance for the strength stimm while my crate was down

[supple torrent]

Probably needs the active stimm though

[spark gyro]

Unless there's a delay to register it

[spice cloud]

Crate gives you a stack for depemdency so i think so.

[odd brook]

Yes stim crate counts

Also gives you the toughness replenish from teammates running through it

[torn rapids]

Ok that's dope, making the build now lol thank yall

[spark gyro]

Fatshark

It's literally just this

[odd brook]

The chem dependency node that gives toughness will actually block your progress since that's separate and applies first

[spark gyro]

Fatshark

[tropic crag]

lol i was wondering why it stopped suddenly

[main wagon]

“Blessed Messelina not this again…”

That in reaction to the anarchist proposing we capture and torture a heretic for information was one I hadn’t heard before

She also cooks the Professional at one point

Says she likes a man who [insert slightly backhanded but still positive comment]

He goes “yeah?”

She just hits em with “Shame you’re so moody all the time.”

https://tenor.com/view/yamcha-yamcha-death-pose-yamcha-dead-yamcha-on-the-ground-yamcha-sleeping-gif-15816799

[abstract inlet]

Got em

[brittle sierra]

Ok guys but what about some stimms?

[lilac stirrup]

does chemical dependency trigger with stimm supply as well?

[brittle sierra]

Si senor

[young herald]

it does now

[noble kayak]

what's a throwaway stat for Dual Stub Pistols, Mobility or Collateral

[drifting heron]

Either

Generally collateral is better to dump

[noble kayak]

Thank you

[main trellis]

Mobility

[dire badge]

Only mobility. Collateral is better

[muted robin]

I just bought the hivescun dlc yesterday. I am playing a lot of duo with a friend of mine, what would you say are the more independent, nearly solo builds of the class?

The class feels relatively hard in comparison to the others

But im not 30 yet

[tranquil fjord]

desperado requires more footwork and pathing because you cant always rely on other teammates to tank and crowd control

melee hivescum can be very aggressive, but rampage can often lead to biting off more than one may chew for those uninitiated

[verbal spire]

I've seen a player use their dual autopistol forever with no ammo pickup, they kept on shooting but their ammo didn't run out. Is there a node / blessing like that? I'm confused.

[fast surge]

Pickpocket

[tranquil fjord]

pickpocket and desperado

[fast surge]

Let's you maintain 20% reserves if you are killing elites/specials

And Desperado makes you consume no reserve ammo while it's active

[verbal spire]

ah, makes sense! Thanks for the info.

[muted robin]

ty

[verbal spire]

Do you think pickpocket itself will be enough?

[fast surge]

If you don't want desperado then yeah pickpocket by itself gives you essentially infinite ammo

[novel oracle]

The talent that prints ammo for killing one of the enemies the game spams at you by any means?

Yes

[verbal spire]

Thanks for the replies.

[tulip magnet]

Just lost round 12 of mortis trials to a pogryn headbutting me off the map 😭

3 bots whole game

[livid raven]

smyker and desperado tag team in maelstrom

we started in 4 but the people left for some reason, they didn't even go down

[main trellis]

Cause smyker & despy no fun hard carry police

[livid raven]

true, they got owned

[verbal spire]

What's cartel special?

Do my teammates also replenish %50 toughness? Curious.

[fast surge]

Cartel special is your custom stimm

Only you get the toughness replenishment, unless you mean with stimm supply

[verbal spire]

Stimm supply

[fast surge]

Then your teammates will also get it

[verbal spire]

Thanks!

[heavy patio]

does the game actually tell you this anywhere

[final temple]

I am not sure chem dep nodes apply to others via stimm supply. The toughness branch of the cartel special, sure. But not chem dependency.

[final temple]

yes. first time you open the stimmlab panel

[fast surge]

Yes, when you first open up the cartel special tree

[heavy patio]

ah

i think i accidentally skipped that instantly because my mouse is bad lmao

[fast surge]

Oh yeah I meant the toughness from the stimm not Chem dep

[devout folio]

Hey folks. I don't own the class, but I noticed all hive scum have one thing in common - they are very grenade hungry. Are their grenades superior to others or something?

[fast surge]

Hivescum grenades are definitely some of the best

Toxin grenade is just zealot's flame grenade but better, and rocket is like ogryns frag but better

[jolly parrot]

does anyone have the build for rashad that can oneshot crushers?

[devout folio]

Kinda annoying. They always make others feel guilty for taking grenades

[sly hollow]

They should

[nova valley]

My lord, I am away for work and I will be for the next 2 months, I miss the scream of my Anarchist so much 😭

[astral canyon]

Pretty much

[livid raven]

it's hilarious how ogryn's frag is worse than rocket and you only get one of them

[devout folio]

So what fatshark did, is gave one class OP grenades, so other classes would be forced get used to playing without theirs..

[livid raven]

actually, doesn't it do even less damage in the inner explosion radius

[sly hollow]

Other classes have great grenades too, they just have means to generate them passively

[astral canyon]

Hive scum ended up being a direct nerf to zealot and ogryn's blitzes that arent blades or rock

[livid raven]

this would be a tragedy if those blitzes didn't already suck

[astral canyon]

True

[tired prairie]

So… just Veteran?

[astral canyon]

But like

[livid raven]

eh i suppose the box was ok

ish

[sly hollow]

Arbites

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-he-is-already-dead-stop-gif-5552043

[sly hollow]

Lone wolf

[tired prairie]

Well, fair, but that leaves Ogryn and Zealot out

[astral canyon]

Incendiary, stunstorm, box and frag

[sly hollow]

Which do not have great grenades

I was only specifying those with very good grenades

[astral canyon]

Also for arbites and vet their blitzes are only really comparable to hive scum's when considering their replenishment imo

[livid raven]

yeah i mean taken singularly they all suck compared to rocket imo

or chem

[astral canyon]

And blinders have built-in replenishment

[livid raven]

the dog shock sucks even if you include the replenishment even

[sly hollow]

Who uses that

[livid raven]

dogs

[astral canyon]

What the dawg doin

[sly hollow]

I haven't seen an arbites use something other than the shock mine in ages

or maybe I just don't notice lol

[livid raven]

yeah after they nerfed the dog shock for some reason i don't think many people run it

[fast surge]

I see lots of arbites use dog shock

[livid raven]

then again i don't see many arbites around anymore either

[main trellis]

Exluding incendiary

[livid raven]

are you saying incendiary is good

[sly hollow]

What did they end up nerfing/changing for the arbites since release?

[livid raven]

irrc they decrease the dog shock blitz to only 2 charges but decreased cooldown

[main trellis]

Cause shock mines don’t require much & provide alot
In experienced hands arby nades beat it
Hasan dog is good for bossing

[livid raven]

they increased the cooldown for mines to 90 seconds

the decreased it for impact grenades to 45

[main trellis]

Nah

[astral canyon]

Then what were you talking about

Because i was including incendiary as "not good"

[main trellis]

Which was a mistake imo; shit is busted

[livid raven]

they nerfed the node that recovers toughness on stamina use from 15 to 10%

what else

[main trellis]

Oh… well…
Then only incendiary should be on that list

[livid raven]

oh they nerfed the bleed dog talent

which was busted

but that's more of a bugfix maybe

[main trellis]

It was bugged yes

[sly hollow]

ty, that really doesn't seem like all that much tbh

For lone wolf builds specifically

[main trellis]

However nerfing dog to 2 quantity was the biggest mistake FS did after implementing beastmen in v2 and not listening to feedback

[livid raven]

possibly!

[astral canyon]

Nah

[livid raven]

imo dog shock was the worst blitz in any case

[astral canyon]

None of those are worth taking away blitz pickups from scum

[main trellis]

3rd worst; 2nd is rock and 1st in incendiary

[livid raven]

Oh worst for arbites

[main trellis]

Obviously

[main trellis]

Ah true

[astral canyon]

Rock gets "saved" by the fact it has built-in replenishment which means you arent being actively detrimental to the scum

[main trellis]

Imagine a class thats main selling point was the dog ends up being the worst option (still good but comparingly worst)

[livid raven]

Crazy they do all these nerfs before buffing that ass middle keystone

[astral canyon]

Meanwhile something like frag bomb takes what couldve been 3/4 rockets for a single charge that is worse than one rocket

[austere coyote]

just give middle keystone permanent +20% movespeed and 60% toughness regen per second

[main trellis]

It has a use but very niche
Captain Blast build could not be created if it weren’t for TW keystone

[livid raven]

So true

[main trellis]

[astral canyon]

I really hope fatshark buffs these 4 eventually

[dim moth]

also frankly mutants are very threatening specialists with some of the worst hit detection of any enemy in the game

and rock just y'know kills them

[astral canyon]

i'd still like to see some improvements to it

but yeah its ogryn's best blitz choice by far

[dim moth]

...what?

grenade box is right there?

free revive?

[main trellis]

Stun is fine; make 2s lingering effect cause visually it looks like it
Frag should be 2
Incendiary needs a complete overhaul aka make it apply actual fire dot and not random dmg in random timing in-between

[astral canyon]

idk if its worth taking away blitzes from scum for it

[dim moth]

oh no an armor pack let me just stunlock them?

ledge a monstrosity ezpz?

[astral canyon]

stun needs a shorter fuse and more charges imo

[dim moth]

what stun needs is a shorter fucking throw time

[main trellis]

Box does not ledge well; frag does but you have only 1

[main trellis]

3 is fine

[dim moth]

but yeah stuns are good they just take waaaaaay too long to throw the damn thing

immolation grenades were found dead in their apartment when scum released

[astral canyon]

and too long to trigger when you do throw them

[main trellis]

10m stun
13m if LP is used

[astral canyon]

its like 1.5s fuse iirc

[dim moth]

yeah with a 2 second draw time, and 3 second throw animation

Nice

[verbal dew]

I'm still knives on most zealots

too used to it

[main trellis]

Unironically; if someone would say a melee class has access to wide aoe stun grenade and not a vet i would be like
WTF?

[astral canyon]

why?

[main trellis]

aren’t guardmen suppose to use a wide array of flashbangs?

[astral canyon]

i mean sure

but whats the issue with a melee class having one of those

[main trellis]

Nothing
The issue is vet not having it

Or anything similar

Hell; even scum has one

A ragged shithead from a criminal sewer

But a guardsman with proper training & equipment?

Nah

[dim moth]

I think this discussion of blitzes could use a pointless tier list I threw together while severely sleep deprived

[devout folio]

i never understood the dagger hype on zealot

[spice cloud]

Its just better then the other 2

[dim moth]

it benefits from your weapon blessings so you can use it to kill maulers

it's really dumb

[livid raven]

you can also use it so swap to bolter faster

[dim moth]

also just a easy fast solution to killing any problem enemy in the middle of a crowd

[livid raven]

or flamer

[dim moth]

lets you skip long weapon draw animations

it's really good

[livid raven]

also if you bring flamer it's the only tool to snipe specials with

[dim moth]

and as much as I don't personally prefer it over stuns I'm not gonna undersell it

[obsidian cipher]

Did anyone test battering strikes with shiv?

[compact oyster]

Are you sure you werent on any other substances?

[main trellis]

I think it was Oldium
Old shit

[dim moth]

I mean I did kind of overrate some things b like shock mine and smokes ig

Oh also underrated kinetic flayer because I forgot it got buffed

[neon fern]

stunstorm on A

jesus christo

[dim moth]

Big cc grenades are good

[neon fern]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbGM2aWUxbTBzZzJoM2tsYWVtOW1zd2xyOHQ4YmU2OW9yYndxY25icCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/KTdnUez6GE5cOWjOVr/giphy.gif

[upbeat gyro]

Found my new most annoying thing to do in the game. This one guy dropped both ammo box and medpack on edge of cliff when already some teammates, me including jumped down

He did it twice, even after complains

[dim moth]

Tho actually them being slow as fuck should prob have them in B

[noble kayak]

How does the needle pistol work?

[livid raven]

you shoot, the enemy gets 6-10 stacks of toxin

[dim moth]

You shoot a guy and lack of public healthcare kills them

[astral canyon]

if they were faster and had 1-2 more charges per pickup i would agree with A

[late cape]

tanner

[astral canyon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396860171541807105/1232138126441582642/mfw_deadass.gif

[livid raven]

two shots usually kill any elite or special (except crushers), headshot and criticals apply 1 or 2 more stacks, depending on the mark

[noble kayak]

Do you just shoot single person multiple times or just once is enough. Who do you prioritize ?

[livid raven]

shoot two times for elites and specials that aren't crushers

or dogs

[dim moth]

All human enemies take 1 to die except for maulers

[livid raven]

yeah but who got time for that

[dim moth]

Me

[noble kayak]

so 2 is enough okay, do you only use needle or do you swap to the cleaver

[livid raven]

ehrm time is running out grandpa

cleaver isn't that popular

for good reason

[upbeat gyro]

I am struggling with horde clear on shivs, better options for ranged talent tree?

[astral canyon]

this you?

[livid raven]

and don't feel obligated to use it with the sneedler

[dim moth]

Bad reasons

[livid raven]

good reasons

not even talking about good or bad it is

[noble kayak]

does the needle toxin spread?

[livid raven]

only with the mk2's special mode

it's not that good tho

[dim moth]

Why do they not appreciate the bad mobility terrible cleave pathetic sounds and annoying sticky heavies?

[livid raven]

and in any case it only spreads a single stack

[dim moth]

2 on a crit :)

[sly hollow]

Imo cleaver > crowbar

But that isnt a high bar

[dim moth]

Yeah its a crow bar

[livid raven]

they made a bar for crows?

that's strange

[spice cloud]

I wish they just removed the sticky heavys on the bonesaw

Then it would be much better.

[spice cloud]

Chainaxe maybe.

Bit shivs arent too bad

[upbeat gyro]

I guess ill just drop desperado anyway as just got penances for it done

So might aswell go something else than full ranged setup

[livid raven]

you don't use melee for horde clear in desperado builds

[spice cloud]

With rampage the shivs clear much much better

[dim moth]

One benefit of the heavies on bone saw is that they are actually 2 hits

[tender marten]

Chaxe isn't that great at horde clear, but it's pretty safe.

[dim moth]

So if its a crit that's 4 tox stacks

6 with coated weaponry

That's a lotta damage

[upbeat gyro]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a08147dd-5e6a-4bb2-b917-e366c2f85e0b/melee-poisonous-crit Would this work by using Vraks IAG instead?

[livid raven]

you can remove long lasting

[upbeat gyro]

I wont even have it since lvl 23 only

[sly hollow]

The needler is so hard to pass up. IAF feels pretty bad without a desperado build

[livid raven]

also i would take sample collector since you are already there

actually, is this build made for the toughness achievement

[upbeat gyro]

Im picking it for penances

[livid raven]

definitely take sample collector then

[upbeat gyro]

Dropping Desperado as i just got it and Big Boom and Vulture done

[livid raven]

otherwise i think it's hard to beat the sneedler on a melee build

[upbeat gyro]

Will give it a spin, maybe not going max difficulty on first game

[livid raven]

btw i don't think gloryhunter does anything on it

but i might be wrong

[lapis raft]

yea it doesnt work

looking at that build thats big collection of pretty wild choices ngl

[upbeat gyro]

Shiv Mk 1 horde clear combo?

Or just spam lights?

[main trellis]

Its bugged

[livid raven]

spam light

[rough peak]

Now do a version based on the mortis trials and also based on the mortis trial benefits they can receive

[lapis raft]

the mortis modifier for chem nade is so useless with the toxin spread

[livid raven]

it is

rocket refill on kill is prob the best

blackout can heal tho

[rough peak]

and create warp shields

destroying trapper projectiles is god-tier when trapper spam

[main trellis]

Its busted; i end up spamming them

[livid raven]

rocket is also irrc only a single perk

[rough peak]

The main thing about blackouts is close kills refill them and they can create warp shields

that's my big thing about them

[astral canyon]

Whats your small thing about them then

[rough peak]

Also: this dclaw can 1 shot a damnation dreg rager with a crit from hyper-critical lol

I do have +15% damage to the 1st enemy hit tho with a melee

I was testing out coated weaponry with it

seems funny

[rough peak]

they can get nade regen

cuz that's totally something needed for blackouts...

[livid raven]

man desperado build with deathdealer/crit line is so funny on mortis

[rough peak]

I don't doubt that at all

I got the newer tank spec when I last tried >.>'

for my crit build

I did at least get warp shield blackouts, tho

The fact I never got around to using the dclaw is a travisty, with how much time I put into zealot...

[exotic temple]

You can do either. You will need to swap to a melee at some point. If you don’t like cleaver shivs with coated weapons works too

But you can just use needle with pick pocket and spend most of your time shooting Ellie’s and specials

[eager reef]

Cleaver needs time to click imo, its a good weapon that just feels awful

As an aside a shred dclaw works with coated too

And gives you access to the parry as extra defense

[hallow raft]

Cleaver is the pickaxe of the scum

[eager reef]

I agree

It's good but you either like it or dont

[hallow raft]

Not DMG wise, but learning curve.

[eager reef]

Tacaxe is also good with coated and it gives you extra anti carapace

[noble kayak]

How do you coat shivs?

[eager reef]

I swap between tax, shivs and dclaw alot and over all i like dclaw the most, but tax covers more ground

[exotic temple]

Talent lower right called coated weaponry

[eager reef]

Then on crit it applies poison

[dire badge]

I scum on my hive til I chop my fent

[exotic temple]

You can get to nearly 100% crit chance on shivs so it’s pretty good

[eager reef]

But i should be ignored when talking about tacaxe, I dont use BM on mine while playing scum

[bright dove]

shivs with rampage on a crit build can just keep going forever on a captain or boss

[exotic temple]

I still don’t see the appeal of tac axe but I haven’t used it a lot. I’m forcing myself to level the mastery up now

[bright dove]

this pleases me greatly, because a shield popping in 4 seconds from a crackhead mauling it with rusty knives is phenomenal

[eager reef]

Lethality paired with good movement and the ability to kill armor

[rough peak]

Got the lvl 20 dclaw mastery finally, about fucking time >.>'

Only took over 2.5k hours to get it x.x

I at least still have this skin from the zealot skin pack thingy, tho

Also lol

[noble kayak]

Do you need to use your cartel stimm for you to spread the effect with stimm supply

[livid raven]

no

[rancid coral]

It's the opposite

[exotic temple]

I didn’t really have good ttk on crushers. Is there some secret tech I’m missing

[rough peak]

It auto uses your stimm

[noble kayak]

Ahh okay

[rough peak]

Does it also use your stimm if it is on cd, as well?

[livid raven]

you can also use no custom stim and spread normal ones

[rancid coral]

You need to save your stimm before using the stimm pack

[rough peak]

stimm supply that is, and if the stimm is on cd

[rancid coral]

No, but it doesn't give the effect of the stimm (unless you abuse the bug xddd)

[keen timber]

how does spreading a health stim work actually

just aoe hjeal?

[livid raven]

yes

[keen timber]

that's kinda cool

[livid raven]

any ally instantly gets healed when they enter the radius for 50%/1 wound chunk

[rancid coral]

It just applies the effect 1 healing stimm to whoever touches it

[rough peak]

I feel like if I want stimm supply then I want this modifier, cause having to hunker down in a small aoe for the stimm buff is annoying

[keen timber]

i think it's pretty useless in reality, but it's cool at least

[keen timber]

yes u always take that

[exotic temple]

You say bug I say probably unintended feature

[rough peak]

Oh, so I'm not crazy then lol

[rancid coral]

I don't think getting in the pack, getting no benefit, walking away from it and back inside of it to get the effect could be called a "feature"

[livid raven]

it's a bug introduced with the latest hotfix

you overestimate fatshark

[rough peak]

I expect nothing from fatshark... at least... nothing that does what it says

[rough peak]

So wait, with stimm supply and this I can spread hitstun immunity to my group with spur 5?

Free hitstun immunity for my randos? They won't know how to use it, sadly, but still...

[livid raven]

i mean

they won't even know they have stun immunity

[rough peak]

True, unless they are extremely alert to getting hitstunned and then suddenly not getting hitstunned after my crate is dropped <.<

which I don't expect at all

Hell I wouldn't even expect good players to notice tbh

[exotic temple]

I think most people outside a coordinated team would probably not notice the stim crate buff.

That’s why i don’t mind abusing the bug it’s not game breaking or anything.

Except if you get like 3 huffs of attack speed buff that gives you dodge and movement speed or something but that doesn’t happen super often

[lapis raft]

the game also straight up says stimm supply is supposed to copy the stimm so why would i feel bad when it behaves like written :d

[exotic temple]

Exactly they should remove the need to move out and into the circle

[lapis raft]

yea

[livid raven]

they should make the supply stim spew out nurgle gas on april's fools

[noble kayak]

is there a max on the toxin stack?

[astral canyon]

30 iirc

[rancid coral]

Yes it's 30

[noble kayak]

The Toxin Chem Grenade thingy, it gives how many stack per second?

[turbid fulcrum]

Which mark? How do you deal with the 10000 strong crusher walls?

[main trellis]

Rockets

Combine it with str stimm you 1 shot H40 rotten crushers

Its that dumb

[eager reef]

I just kite them around tbh. As for marks I have no idea. The pretty Tacaxe and pretty dclaw at base.

[astral canyon]

Caps at 6 stacks

[livid raven]

mk7 is the best one

mk 4 is good too

and also the easiest to use

[main trellis]

I use mk1… and spam light… its that effective

[livid raven]

isn't the mk4 the spam light

we are talking about tacaxes right?

[main trellis]

It has the same pattern but mk1 loop is vanguard - strikedown
While mk7 has vanguard - vanguard - strikedown

[main trellis]

Oh… sorry… i meant Dclaw

[livid raven]

i should use the dclaw someday

when i stop using desperado

(i won't)

[eager reef]

I use dclaw with despacito Triple barrel shotgun

[main trellis]

I mean you could take it as a tech choice cause parry vs bosses that might pester you

[livid raven]

i keep the melee for crushers only

[main trellis]

I use chainaxe

[livid raven]

i use knife

i also want to be speedy and chainaxe is uhh

[main trellis]

You sprint with ranged anyways on despy

[livid raven]

i am using IAG so not too much

i was a IAG hater, i think i converted

[rough peak]

I am not an iag hater, myself, I just don't like how the gun handles personally

[worn yoke]

Welcome my brother or sister

[astral canyon]

unwelcome

[keen timber]

good players dont get hitstunned

[lilac ermine]

The iag is just like the uzis but cant fire while sprinting and accurate ads

Most of time can just hipfire it and it feels same

[livid raven]

it does much more damage

especially against bosses

[keen timber]

if you aim*

better crit and weakspot modifiers

[lilac ermine]

True the ads tho feels like it has more recoil then hipfire so misses more

I only use for snipers

[rough peak]

I am definitely liking the dclaw on the hivescum, but, I am still probably using it poorly. I am working on getting heavy attack kills while my stim is up tho :3

needle being able to cover crushers is really nice as well, same for having the option of chem nades or the rocket

[upbeat gyro]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a07c16c1-4370-4657-9f6b-33e714ca67c5/reginalds-melee-build This bugged with the one odd node unlinked in left bottom?

[lilac ermine]

I did heavy attack kills while on stims with shivs bc the heavys can hit multiple enemy a little

[rough peak]

The mk2 taxe also works since both heavies are cleaving ones

[lilac ermine]

Oh cool wish I knew before

[rough peak]

The mk7 works as well, but, only 1 of the 2 heavies are cleaving ones

[lilac ermine]

I have melee build can any one rate it

[rough peak]

Do the shivs even need stamina on dodge?

even with rampage ending making you lose 75% stamina

[lilac ermine]

I use because the beserker

Rampage

[rough peak]

what's the stim?

[lilac ermine]

Rampage makes you lose all stamina then 75% less regen

Finesse

It lets the shivs do like 2-3 shot on crusher

[rough peak]

I understand why you have it x.x

I use rampage mostly, myself

[lilac ermine]

I tried channel aggression but it didnt feel like it did alot

Melee hive scum feels better in most situation cause it can handle armor, bosses, specialist, disablers, and kind of shooters pretty easily

Better than ranged hive scum

[final temple]

on shivs those 25% don’t feel impactful. other weapons profit more off it

personally, I’d lose some talents up top and invest in pickpocket and hypercritical on shivs.

[lilac ermine]

I was testing hyper critical and it feels the shivs dont need it because once you kill 1st mauler or crusher in pack

[sonic pumice]

Is there a point of the dual stub pistols? they arent melee options for the class right? cant feel that they do much of any stagger, its damage is not as impressive for its mag count unless you invest a lot on crit chance to really put some punch

[lilac ermine]

Then the rest are like 1 shot on maulers or 2-3 shot on crushers

Using hyper violence damage

+rampage/finesse

[final temple]

kill speed increases measurably with hCritical

[lilac ermine]

Whats worth getting rid of? Tertium welcome and sticky hands?

[final temple]

and pickpocket is basically THE cheat node on scum that single-handedly enables ranged spam if needed

[lilac ermine]

Oops wrong comment

I havent really ran out of ammo with bolt pistol that much

Sometimes I do need ammo when no veteran but not alot

[final temple]

yeah. I suppose you would be even more ammo conservative with it

[lilac ermine]

Im suprised the bolt pistol can like 1-2 shot most special

Even in havoc

And with no gun talents

Ill try hyper critical and pickpocket tho

[final temple]

pickpocket might become interesting with the aoe mark for the bistol

cause you are incentivized to use the gun more into packs of specialists

[rough peak]

pickpocket is just nice to have in general, but, I think it does feed bad habits >.>'

[lilac ermine]

I havent tried my melee build in high havoc so pickpocket may be better

Idk what mark my bolt pistol is even

[final temple]

‘bad habits’ is the class motto. nimble and jittery make you value dodges more than they can achieve on other classes. you are stacked with crit nodes so your perception of critchance gets warped and things like desperado and VD let you completely ignore damage sources.

[rough peak]

4 is the original, 6 is the explosion damage one

[rough peak]

True

I was able to play my thammer zealot after all the hive scum playtime I have done

but... thammer on zealot is like a glove for me, it just fits

[final temple]

but the same is true for any class but zealot now. and with zealot, even fatmangus builds let you outright ignore most damage mechanics

[lilac ermine]

Nerf psyker..

I like playing hive scum even tho every says they are weak

[rough peak]

Who are these people?

[livid raven]

hivescum makes me remember day 1 arbites

[lilac ermine]

Steam forum and readdit

[rough peak]

Oh, so the places that don't know what they are talking about >.>

[livid raven]

i hope fatshark listens to the people and buffs hivescum even more

[sonic pumice]

probably people that are still trying to make it a full melee class? i think the class as a mid range gunner is stupidly powerful, and even some needle melee with utility of stim supply is really solid, but full melee just feels awful

[livid raven]

is works perfectly as a pure melee class

i blame Mr E

[sonic pumice]

It works as a pure melee class, but is nowhere as good as alternatives

"perfectly" is biased

[livid raven]

i mean it's nowhere as good as desperado, maybe

[rough peak]

I really like melee scum a lot

[sonic pumice]

which is kinda the intended role of the class

[lilac ermine]

It is really good full melee

[rough peak]

So for the dclaw's parry do you press m1 after you parry for the counter-attack? I haven't used the dclaw in so long <.<'

[lilac ermine]

All it needs to do is shred boss and armor and kind of help with shooter/special

[livid raven]

that's less pure melee being bad and more like desperado builds just ignore 50% of the game

i mean i don't think you should be able to beat missions without even taking out your melee in a tide game, but maybe that's just me

[lilac ermine]

Desperado kind of falls off high havoc

Unless your playing with ppl who can handle the weaknesses of it

[livid raven]

true they should buff it

[sonic pumice]

i have made missions full on gun, its not easy and you need careful management, but its doable (but its really better if people learn to melee)

[lilac ermine]

Buff dual stub pistols

[livid raven]

buff IAG so everyone can enjoy it

[lilac ermine]

Maybe dual stub pistols should be the armor killer weapon for hive scum ranged

[sonic pumice]

i dont feel it falls on high havoc, but your role is not as much as a caparace hunter, the value of cleaning swarms and disablers like smite psyker (or even better than) is not bad trait to have in exchange of not being the best vs caparace

[lilac ermine]

Rn its just worse at everything like horde/shooters

[livid raven]

i do wonder how someone can make a gun that is just

[sonic pumice]

it feels that wants to be a mobile version of the vraks iag, but not having sprint and shoot by default is weird

[lilac ermine]

It falls off unless you have ppl killing the carapace

[livid raven]

not good against anything in particular with a rather slow firerate

and then turn around and make dual autogun

[lilac ermine]

Like when theres 10 rotten armor crushers on you and have to shiv them all to death on desperado

[sonic pumice]

you CAN kill the caparace, this is why IAG is so goated, its finesse crits hurt caparace enought to make desperado keep running vs them. is it the best? no, but you have other 3 ppl covering while you still can gun down everything not fully plated

[livid raven]

it's true, it does chunk crushers

but like

if you don't have a strength stim, it takes your whole magazine to kill one

you can finish them off at least

[lilac ermine]

Without stim ik it takes a while and more on rotten armor

[sonic pumice]

yeah, but in my experience crusher congas are dangerous, but the real run enders are disablers

they just rain like the plague

[lilac ermine]

Disablers are bad but also bad when theres crushers making all the specialist dangerous cause they are shooting nets through them or throwing grenades

[exotic temple]

I think they are designed to be side arms for a melee build. They can kill specialists sorta quickly, but revolver and bolt pistol do a similar job but better me thinks. Also needler exists

[lilac ermine]

Bolt pistol has been good side arm for melee build for me it has stagger unlike needle gun

[sonic pumice]

Ole reliable bistol and revolver keep winning, also the needle gun is quite good yes

[sonic pumice]

i know needle is quite strong because of the chem tox being super strong, but my primate brain enjoy the hand grenade launcher that is the Bistol

[main trellis]

Thats like every build
Despy in high havoc ain’t falling off

[exotic temple]

I lvled with desperado stub pistols and it was really fun. Once I got into aurics tho it really fell off because you weren’t consistently killing things with one or two shots. Also run and gun and speedloader were the only way to make the gun feel good and dap just runs away because you can take 2 dmg blessings

It’s kinda frustrating when you do the stupid trick shot to kill a sniper or gunner and it just knocks them down behind cover

[livid raven]

what if they increase the stub pistols' damage to 450 base

or 500

[astral canyon]

What if they increase it to 5000

[vapid jungle]

What stub pistols lack in damage they make up for in vibe and style

[livid raven]

true, but you have only one bullet in each magazine and it breaks your arms for 20 seconds each time you shoot

[exotic temple]

Dual wielding kickbacks

[livid raven]

so called vibe and style when the mauler in front of you slams you into the ground

[vapid jungle]

Spin shooting backwards dodge on a sniper across the map is a feeling

[final temple]

losin because of lack of killing power is also a feeling

[vapid jungle]

Skill issues it seems

[sonic pumice]

why it has 7 bullets in each mag? doesnt feel that it hit as hard as it should for such low ammo

[livid raven]

because they are pistols

[astral canyon]

Theyre based off 1911s

[livid raven]

which makes sense but

[vale viper]

I cant decide if i wanna get the DLC...total account level is 498 but the steam reviews are throwing me off

[livid raven]

it doesn't make for a great handgun

[sonic pumice]

STUB pistols, they are quite big for normal bullets

[astral canyon]

But i wouldnt mind if they had more bullets

[exotic temple]

You can get double stacked mags though

[livid raven]

definitely get it, the negative reviews were from when the class was buggy and the talents weren't distributed well so it was hard to play at low level

[astral canyon]

Also from people being mad it wasnt admech

[final temple]

it's fun. frantic gameplay, several well performing builds and a good chance of getting even better with post winter hibernation hotfixes

[livid raven]

also that

infact, i put a negative review

keeps fatshark on their toes, you know

[vale viper]

Wondering if its much harder to play than Psyker/Vet (in terms of squishiness)

[exotic temple]

I honestly didn’t understand the negative hype I leveled before the changes and didn’t have any issues until auric

[vapid jungle]

Hive Scum is very fun definitely worth it

[livid raven]

the ranged build is basically brainless

[exotic temple]

But that was from bad habits being rewarded for 30 lvls

[vale viper]

But I do like the prospect of a fast moving character, like the scout in TF2 or something

[sonic pumice]

I wonder how many will change their review if we get adMech one day

[vapid jungle]

If you have good fundamentals it isnt a problem

[final temple]

'where ratling, rotund guppy?!'

[vale viper]

Hmm Hmm Hmm

Deluxe edition or no

[exotic temple]

I know everyone keeps going on about admech but I want my space Bardin

[final temple]

if you ever liked necromunda, deluxe edition is a nice throwback

[vapid jungle]

If you care about cosmetics sure not for me personally

[sonic pumice]

Imo the deluxe is not that great unless you are invested on the character it is making reference or you like the drip

[true yoke]

hive scum has been fun, im just bad at builds. Whats more "meta" the pistols or the uzis?

[final temple]

uzis

[vale viper]

Fair. I'm not too familiar with Necromunda , but the cosmetics just seems like just wrapping everything in caution tape hahaha

[livid raven]

they are like mad max stuff

[sonic pumice]

We have some MINIMAL hope for Space elfs, going out of our way to get space dwarves seems like a stretch

[vale viper]

Just the regular DLC for now then 😌

[vapid jungle]

Uzis for sure

[noble kayak]

Squats?

[livid raven]

we have hope for orcs freebooters actually

[final temple]

it is vastly more likely that we get space dwarfs than elves, going by the track record of FS indeed peeking at 'munda for ideas

[exotic temple]

It’s more likely to have a squat in an imperial hive city than eldar. Squats are just viewed as abhuman vs being xeno

[livid raven]

ironically orc freebooters would make the most sense imo

[exotic temple]

Yeah

[livid raven]

maybe, i dunno if the empire would recruit them to attack a city

[noble kayak]

When Sisters of Battle

[astral canyon]

Yesterday

You missed them

[livid raven]

the zealot is a sister of battle that forgot the armor at home

[sonic pumice]

As part of a Rogue trader AND Inquisition, we can make exceptions for Eldar, Just see Dark heresy!

[vale viper]

Tbh what are "fundamentals" though. Like I'm havoc 20, play mostly Auric Maelstrom. I don't know all the mechanics of the game though

[livid raven]

i really want to see how they are bullshitting the eldar in in dark heresy

[noble kayak]

But, No Melta Gun or Heavy Bolter

[livid raven]

soon

[exotic temple]

Yes but you wouldn’t have to make any exception for a squat

[vale viper]

Like I only just learned what impact/rending is lmao

[final temple]

how to dodge - ideally also the slot system cause you will end up in situations where you want to kite or fuck off

[vapid jungle]

An understanding of when to dodge block push spacing and your sources of toughness replenishment

[vale viper]

Oh that's fine

I should be ok

[sonic pumice]

tbh i would not be against it at all

[true yoke]

the what system? the hell is a slot?

(yes I are mostly still noob apparently)

[vapid jungle]

The slot system reserves and limits space for enemies to attack you based on their size

[final temple]

how enemies path towards you and how they distribute around you. it's based on a system of slots around your character

[exotic temple]

Me neither and eldar would be cool but they have already said no to space Bardin

[vale viper]

... Time to study on it

[vapid jungle]

There are several good YouTube videos on it if you search

[lilac ermine]

Its conspiracy

[true yoke]

of to the youtubes I suppose.

[vapid jungle]

Once you understand it you can manipulate it to your benefit

[sonic pumice]

holding corners and choke points is important BECAUSE of that kind of mechanics

[vapid jungle]

This guy gets it

[vale viper]

what's the mod for seeing the Coherency in the middle of the screen?

[vapid jungle]

Also closing doors on monstrosities is a stim of mine

[sonic pumice]

The blessed Doors of the Imperium are the ultimate weapon of Big E

in your face banana boys

[final temple]

I dub thee, HODOR!

[vapid jungle]

Who needs a marty zealot when i have the power of an elevator door

Checkmate crucis

[lilac ermine]

Thats so cheesy

So is choke points and corners

[vapid jungle]

I found the guy dying in every open area

[lilac ermine]

Just hold where you stand 👍

[muted pivot]

What's a good melee for a desperado build? I've been using shivs since you go hypercritical for vulture's mark anyway, but wanna try something different

[vapid jungle]

I tend to go for higher mobility so knife taxe the shivs

[livid raven]

shivs, tacaxe, knife

imo, whatever helps you against crushers

[noble kayak]

does the CDR stuff affects the cartel special?

[livid raven]

no

[noble kayak]

dang :(

[livid raven]

only sample collector does

[noble kayak]

so only the sample collector gives cdr

okay

what's your stimm lab if running desperado dual autopistol

[livid raven]

i just run full cdr, but i might try the strength branch soon

[noble kayak]

ohhh sooo desperado, stimm, then desperado? does strength affects dual auto dmg?

[livid raven]

yeah

strength increases the cleave, damage, suppression and stagger of any weapon

well not suppression

[rough peak]

Yep, it's multiplicative with bonus damage and cleave that isn't gained from strength. I don't know about stagger, tho

[final temple]

you can run any of the trees with desp and see good results. some prefer more desperado uptime, others a kick in damage or attack/reload speed

[fiery palm]

the rending bonus from the strength stim will allow you to hurt carapace better

which seems like "no shit" but it goes from plinking right off the armor to actually doing damage

[thorny ginkgo]

should i take toxin mania or pickpocket on a bonesaw needle pistol chem build?

[lilac ermine]

The finesse stim kills carapace pretty fast with shivs

[thorny ginkgo]

or can i drop something else for pickpocket

[vapid jungle]

Pickpocket might be the strongest node in the game

[brittle sierra]

Take out damage with toxin

[vapid jungle]

Nothing else circumvents the ammo economy like that

[brittle sierra]

One of the worst nodes in the game

[fiery palm]

toxin mania is not worth it if you're sacrificing pickpocket

[thorny ginkgo]

thank you

[fiery palm]

Like just mathematically, what sounds stronger, 15% damage when close to chem tox or unlimited needles?

[thorny ginkgo]

true true

i run needle like this

[fiery palm]

I'd make damage the dump stat, stability actually is kinda important for the needle pistol

also worth Run n Gun for the permanent spread bonus

[thorny ginkgo]

kk i'll get a new one ty

[fiery palm]

roll a new one from Brunt and compare them in the psykanium if you want, you'll see a stability dump needle pistol has significantly more fliers off to the sides

[vapid jungle]

Damage only effects the projectile damage which is not existent

[fiery palm]

blessings I take stripped down+run and gun but desperado is good too I suppose. for perks I run unyielding and reload speed actually

[brittle sierra]

The dump is damage

Blessings are run n gun, point blank

Mk 6 is better

[thorny ginkgo]

i got lucky thanks

[fiery palm]

Mk6 can apply more stacks but Mk2 blue mode shoot it at the floor surprisingly good trash clear

[vapid jungle]

What are the differences in the marks?

[thorny ginkgo]

i only use mk2 for the toxin spread on kill on the special mode

i think mk6 has higher single target damage and the blue mode explodes and staggers on kill

[fiery palm]

Mk6 does more stacks on crit and has a shitty stagger effect, Mk2 blue mode can spread toxin when needle-affected enemies die

[fiery palm]

I disagree with point blank personally

[vapid jungle]

So single vs groups more or less

[thorny ginkgo]

i think desperado would be better for me

[fiery palm]

I wouldn't take it for gospel cause one guy said it. All a crit does is effectively require one less needle but are you really going to go "oh I saw a crit marker I will switch targets now" in a fraction of a second? You also have infinite ammo with pickpocket. Just take stripped down for the ranged immunity and Run n Gun for the sprint shooting+spread reduction

Like mathematically critfishing is slightly superior in Spreadsheet Land but unless you're playing like a 100% efficient robot it's hard to make the most out of so small a difference

[brittle sierra]

Alt attack on the needler is garbage

It doesn't spread, which means it's only value is into trash hordes

[lilac ermine]

mk2 is also more stacks in headshot too

I mean mk6

[brittle sierra]

The value of needler is not a wave clearing tool

It is the fact that it can shoot at any priority target in the game and with enough stacks it will die

[low harbor]

Stability is only sway for needle pistol

Affects neither spread nor recoil

[lilac ermine]

doesnt damage only affect like 5 damage though

[low harbor]

Yea

[lilac ermine]

the initial hit damage

[fiery palm]

So reducing sway is still better than other things you can dump

[low harbor]

Everything besides ammo and mobility is dump stat

[lilac ermine]

👍

[brittle sierra]

The class is already ranged immune

[low harbor]

Sample collector value goes crazy

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[brittle sierra]

Stop

[fiery palm]

huh

[thorny ginkgo]

oh this is for a chem build

[low harbor]

I’m making potstickers

[brittle sierra]

Gimmie

[keen timber]

oo those look good

[brittle sierra]

@low harbor if I visited China I would gain 20 lbs in one month

I swear it's all crack cocaine

[thorny ginkgo]

dumplings? yum

[vapid jungle]

Monosodium glutamate my brother

The magic maker

[low harbor]

sorry I'm too chinese to know how much 20lbs actually weighs

[thorny ginkgo]

i need to try

[vapid jungle]

Sprinkle that on everythang

[lilac ermine]

Is exe stance better then shout

[fiery palm]

MSG has been badly maligned, I brought some over the holidays to help with cooking and my boomer relatives were buggin

[lilac ermine]

Someone (pro vet) told me it is

[silver pollen]

Nope, not even close.

[low harbor]

depends

[brittle sierra]

I think it's much more than that

[low harbor]

I think it's at least equal

[exotic temple]

The way people don’t know how to read studies makes me sad

[vapid jungle]

Msg does a lot of heavy lifting

[lilac ermine]

Idk for carrying team in havoc

[vapid jungle]

At least in americanized Chinese food

[low harbor]

it makes vet much better at doing things vet is best at, but most teams aren't good enough to utilize that

[vapid jungle]

No. Gold toughness is too strong a safety net and the average team isnt going to play around you.

[low harbor]

better ranged breakpoints, stun immune (for frontline elite kills), wallhack, and the highest toughness replenishment of any class by a wide margin

[lilac ermine]

Dont rlly need gold toughness if ppl dont get hit by poxburster and sniper

[vapid jungle]

No one plays perfect and moreover the game doesnt work right all the time

Actually more often than not there are things fundamentally broken in the game and we just adapt to them as a feature.

[limber cradle]

I'm a proponent of ES>VoC tbh

[lilac ermine]

I think its better too if the vet is good

[limber cradle]

Agreed

VoC has no skill floor and a minimal skill ceiling which is why it's more popular

[low harbor]

VoC is just safe

but it's like the 2nd worst support ult in the game

the only support ult it's better than is nuncio aquila

taunt is way higher value

chorus is way higher value

bubble is way higher value

stim crate is way higher value

[lilac ermine]

For me its like why is vets skill give a knockback and full toughness and thats all when hive scum can knockback and full toughness and rampage at same time

[low harbor]

btl is way higher value (and it's both offence and defence)

[limber cradle]

Nah VoC>Chorus

You're not effectively down a member to use it

[vapid jungle]

That is patently false

[low harbor]

chorus is a higher impact ult and matters more for when u really need space makers

voc gets hard countered by pox gas

[limber cradle]

Pox Gas is literally hitler unless you're arb ime

[lilac ermine]

Chorus is better at saving game then shout

[low harbor]

nah

stance vet tanks gas no problem

30% max toughness/s just hits different

[lilac ermine]

Ik stance keeps vets alive better then shout

Regening toughness per second > full toughness one button press

[limber cradle]

Yeah touché

Modifier still sucks tho

[mighty belfry]

It's really not garbage tho

[lilac ermine]

Shout would work better if it also gave regening toughness afterward

The shout barely works in gas

[supple torrent]

Man I want to love rampage but the increase in damage taken when it ends is a bit mcuh

[vapid jungle]

Vet abilities need touching up generally.

[mighty belfry]

It's an extremely safe means of horde clear with infinite cleave despite the shorter aoe that also can be taken on the class with infinite ammo

[low harbor]

I think only infil needs big changes tbh

the other 2 abilities are in a decent spot

[limber cradle]

A 4th vet rework lmfao

[low harbor]

red nodes can use a soft rework

[vapid jungle]

Voc is just boring

[low harbor]

I've sent them a draft actually

lol

it's very easy to make current vet tree better

[lilac ermine]

Whats the stealth rework

[limber cradle]

Remove it

[lilac ermine]

💀

[supple torrent]

give it more bombs

[vapid jungle]

Agreed. Leave stealth for zealots.

[low harbor]

Infiltrate base ability
+25% move speed lingers for 15.0s after breaking stealth
Damage bonus reduced from +30% to +20% but lingers for 15.0s instead of 5.0s after breaking stealth
CD reduced from 45.0s to 35.0s
New function: during and for 15.0s after breaking stealth, melee attacks’ second target damage/stagger profile is overwritten with first target

Hunter’s resolve
Duration increased to 15.0s, and grants stun immunity

Low profile
Add screen effect showing when it’s working

Overwatch
Remove CD penalty

Marksman & CQKZ
Both last 15.0s instead of 10.0s, and can be refreshed alongside executioner's stance

[vapid jungle]

I'd love a melee steroid of some kind

[limber cradle]

Genuinely I think they should give zealot bardin stealth

[lilac ermine]

Whats this mean "during and for 15.0s after breaking stealth, melee attacks’ second target damage/stagger profile is overwritten with first target"

[low harbor]

u swing ur sword and hits 4 ragers
first target takes full dmg (1st target), 600 dmg, max stagger
2nd target onward takes reduced dmg & stagger

this overwrite makes u effectively have mini-BM for 15s

[vapid jungle]

Increased cleave effectively

[low harbor]

not increased cleave

[lilac ermine]

So stealth would be more melee focus

[low harbor]

modified cleave distribution parameter

somewhat yea

[vapid jungle]

Increased cleave effectively

Lol

[low harbor]

no, cleave budget stays the same

[lilac ermine]

I was thinking like turning stealth into elite/special hunter like get stacking damage on kills and refresh stealth

[low harbor]

cleave distribution is not the same thing as cleave budget

[vapid jungle]

Im aware but in actual play it will feel like increased cleave

[low harbor]

I don't think they'll go for stealth refresh tbh

at best make downtime lower so u can use it more often

[astral canyon]

Waow

[low harbor]

this is just a draft I sent to playtester lol

don't get excited

I've sent way more bizarre ideas

[lilac ermine]

Maybe melee kills during stealth extend duration but has diminishing cd that caps like rampage

[astral canyon]

Too late

[lilac ermine]

Increased damage backstabs

[low harbor]

I don't want vet stealth to be backstab tbh

[astral canyon]

Zealot already does backstab stuff

Plus this helps set apart the two stealth abilities more

Shroud is a one hit nuke while infiltrate focuses more on lingering buffs