hivescum-class

[tropic crag]

i like team games like tide games tho where it feels like 4 loners coming together in a team up moment... feels cool to me but i get why people want more actual team moments, but i play other games for that

[woeful hill]

It's 4 solos coming together

[tropic crag]

yeah and i just like that vibe

[woeful hill]

This is my opinion from my experiences

I love that idea

I sat back and watched one of my videos

And thought "damn, when I play with good players I don't think about them and we all play as a solo"

[tropic crag]

i used to call that "the tide dance" when trying to explain to people what high level play looks like... you'll all be constantly rotating in a dance that just... works

and i love it

everyone is just solving the problems in front of them as you all move

[woeful hill]

Yeah, only really shows with good groups

[astral canyon]

food groups

[woeful hill]

And that run I was thinking about no one was in vc

Food

[astral canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-the-boys-yummers-gif-730693117818784194

[tropic crag]

i feel like you see it more in vt2 since you need to get better at actually scrapping in that game so the difficulties filter harder than in darktide

[carmine solar]

i love gunscum!!!11

[final temple]

I am still toying around with this likely pointless idea of a ‘hybrid’ between DAP desperado and chem dep bonesaw scum

[tropic crag]

could probably work more than fine tbh... might not be like havok ready but that would probably work in auric

would be awkward to get the flow of it tho i think

[final temple]

yeah the idea is to be basically ranged with some few key talents to make the bonesaw work in melee.

swift endurance, HC, battering strikes

[candid flint]

only 96% coherency efficiency

trash player

trash class

L scoreboard

[noble kayak]

How do you see this stats?

[final temple]

mod

[noble kayak]

Thank You

[warm axle]

bonesaw bone-sucks
not that its actually BAD but it just needs to much to get going, funneling your build elsewhere is night and day.

[abstract inlet]

I no longer like the agri shotty. It just doesn't have enough range for how tight its spread is

[dim moth]

nah

[abstract inlet]

not being scummy enough, hit em a couple times and run away

keep push attacking the horde

[flat mist]

Bonesaw dumpstat is crit bonus

[final temple]

dumpstat is damage

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw gotta lock in huh...

[warm axle]

different strokes different folks but for me, ive always liked chainaxes and hoped this would be closer to that.

[zealous ravine]

it looks awesome but hten it d oes like 9 dmg to a flak guy and im sad

at least purple sludge™ is a bit better at that

[flat mist]

@warm axle mobility goes from 0.09>0.027 when you don't dump it (shivs are 0.7 at 60% for comparison). You lose 1.2% crit dumping crit bonus and that's it.

Foolish to dump mobility on it

[zealous ravine]

that crit bonus stat is extremely bad when shivs have more crit and crit dmg without having crit bonus

like got damn

[flat mist]

Yeah crit damage has fuck all scaling, it's a pointless weapon mod

[final temple]

that’s too much. can’t do. it’s heresy.

[flat mist]

[warm axle]

dont worry, i did that research myself.

the mobility isnt the problem i had with it.

[tropic crag]

bonesaw like one shots flak tho? just hit them in the chest with the full latch or you can just tap them a few times and walk away

[flat mist]

There can be more than one problem

[tropic crag]

the last tick of the latch is pretty big

[zealous ravine]

having to do a latch for every flak guy guh

[flat mist]

Full latching a bruiser? Lmfao

[tropic crag]

well you don't, that would be dumb lol... you just hit rampage and kill 10 of them on accident while killing the horde then you latch onto the last one for the cinematic finish

optimal play is play that looks cool

[warm axle]

latching anything felt like a mistake, not many weapons have a "troll yourself" button

[zealous ravine]

wish the murder felt as good as it looks cool

[final temple]

optimal play is boring. let me question my life choices with every swing. that way it’s deliberate and I am committed

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw experience

[final temple]

pmuch

[tropic crag]

naw i use it all the time, you only have to be careful about it once you hit havok... and even then you're barely punished for leaving the latch early because you still posioned them you just missed out on the one burst

[zealous ravine]

i just wish latches took AS more into account

[warm axle]

you are punished by losing stamina.

[zealous ravine]

or did more damage

that would also work i guess

[tropic crag]

why do so many people think dodges are stam based?

[zealous ravine]

i dont know and i havent bothered to test if its true

[warm axle]

yeah that

[zealous ravine]

im playing a funny mech gam i found

[final temple]

iirc the animation does not consider AS at all

[zealous ravine]

yea apparently the animation is static and EVIL and cursed

maybe thats why the crowbar special feels guh

[final temple]

imagine being fucking animation locked

[tropic crag]

dodges don't use up stam, they use up your dodge limit, you can reset that by jumping or waiting for a short time... dodging out of a latch costs you nothing because you were going to dodge at the end of the latch anyway

[zealous ravine]

cause ihave SO much attack speed and thats all wasted

[low harbor]

Bonesaw is pretty sad

[warm axle]

jumping

[low harbor]

Before release I thought it was gonna be falchion but good

[final temple]

just don’t latch

[abstract inlet]

now you tell me, fudge

[zealous ravine]

that weapon just makes me so sad...

[low harbor]

After release I realized falchion is bonesaw but good

Crazy world we live in

[abstract inlet]

WRONG, latch when it's safe

[tropic crag]

yeah if you need your dodge limit back a fraction of a second faster jump reseting is a method thats pretty old in the tide series, its less handy in dt than vt2 because it saves less time but its still a very tiny time save

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw latches arent that unsafe but crowbar dear god

when all your attacks are latches its death

[final temple]

always latch. except if it ain’t safe. then latch desperately like your ex.

[tropic crag]

yeah crowbar latches do feel the most unsafe, bonesaw are the safest, chain weapons are all about even in the middle

[flat mist]

The strongest build I found with bonesaw was just AS, crit and damage maxxing. Never turned off rending mode and just light spammed

[low harbor]

Bonesaw latches are actually horrendously ass cuz the weapon has fully dogshit stagger breakpoints

[flat mist]

So basically way worse shivs

[low harbor]

I say this fully unironically

The only attack bonesaw has that can break rager combo

[zealous ravine]

awesome

[low harbor]

Is the latch heavy overhead attack

But only on the 2nd tick

[zealous ravine]

god i miss just using crusher on arbys that was fun

[final temple]

so what you are saying is: bonesaw needs you to like pain. seems on brand.

[tropic crag]

thats the only one you need, because most other enemies die to lights or you can just dodge/push/pocket sand before you latch

[flat mist]

Just pocket sand every enemy

With one of the worst weapons to regen pocketsand

[warm axle]

i do love to pocket sand and piss off

[zealous ravine]

no way they drop a 3rd class without a peak melee right

[low harbor]

It’s actually crazy how bad bonesaw is

[zealous ravine]

cause on arbys i just ended up using crusher instead of the unique melees LOL

[tropic crag]

honestly bonesaw isn't that bad and if you people get another one of my favorite weapons buffed into being boring i'm gonna be upset

[zealous ravine]

it has so many problems just to be like ok

[flat mist]

It has epic levels of anti synergy with itself whatever build you try and take it down

[tropic crag]

the arby maul is like.. one of the most fun weapons in darktide tho

[zealous ravine]

arby maul idk its kinda spammy i guess?

defo felt very strong not my type of weapon though

special is cool so thats good

[tropic crag]

this isn't true at all... you just build normal rampage with tox support and it turns into a hyper safe weapon with more damage than other hyper safe weapons (and alot of non safe weapons)

[warm axle]

even as a power falcion fan i was surprised by how little enjoyment i got from bonesaw and crowbar. i'm fine with a more limited power fantasy but they need to have a better niche. any vet just running a uncanny shovel with the bleed talent does both their jobs.

[abstract inlet]

chemist support build works, it just doesn't feel good to you people

[tropic crag]

its fun spammy because everything you do is different versions of normal attacks and special attacks

[zealous ravine]

i also dont think arby maul looks that cool

at least the bonesaw got that aura

did 1 thing incredibly well and its looking amazing

[warm axle]

it hits like a truck, and bonks everything thats cool enough for me.

[tropic crag]

AND makes everything do a shimmy

[zealous ravine]

i remember it just vaporizing crushers yea

[flat mist]

So a build that you're barely actually using the bonesaw?

[warm axle]

i was actually happy when they buffed crushers lmao i started feeling bad for em

[abstract inlet]

yesn't

[zealous ravine]

lmao

crusher buff is nice actually

[flat mist]

What makes it hyper safe lol

[abstract inlet]

you don't use it when you're not in melee together

[tropic crag]

my main scum build is a rampage adren tox build... there is no anti synergy and i pretty much only use the bonesaw, it works fine and is even havok workable (tho maybe box adren instead if you want the corruption curing as well)

[abstract inlet]

only anti synergy is pocket sand

[tropic crag]

the additional 15% per kill toughness you generate... you can face tank with the bone saw

you stack that with everything else

[warm axle]

what other classes have anti synergy

[tropic crag]

it procs constantly

[warm axle]

besides like, bait nodes

melee grenade gauntlets still a weird one but og ogryn weapons feels like they did it in a weekend for fun.

[flat mist]

Bonesaw has anti-synergy with hyper-violence, adrenaline frenzy, sample collector, blackouts, literally anything on kill

Because the fucking latch ticks and toxins don't proc those talents

[tropic crag]

it procs hv just fine all the time...

[final temple]

with sample collector?

[zealous ravine]

maybe a dot melee was just a mistake lmfao

[tropic crag]

when youre attacking hordes with the bonesaw eventually HV takes over and you're oneshotting elites

[warm axle]

they knew with bleed knife and soulfire blaze weapons

[final temple]

pretty sure as it stands sample collector and bone saw are made for each other coz the 2% proc from toxin damage only

[tropic crag]

one shotting them with lights i mean

[zealous ravine]

oh god soulblaze force swords

[warm axle]

hell they even nerfed ogryn bleed a year ago right

[zealous ravine]

i see people trying those and its so sad cause it just doesnt work

[tropic crag]

i don't usually bring it tbh, because rampage adren doesn't really need the stim recharge... but its not bad

[flat mist]

Ok scratch that one, wtf is the 15% toughness on tox affected melee kill called

[final temple]

it’s more that it seems bugged and the tendency of the bonesaw to steal melee kills by toxin damage is suddenly a plus for sample collector xD

[tropic crag]

both toxic mania and toxic renewal are the nodes made for the bonesaw yeah

[warm axle]

the only sad part is that built right they just kill everything anyway, its sad that they exist to bait people into playing em

[zealous ravine]

force swords r crazy damig

[tropic crag]

like i'm not gonna pretend bonesaw is meta but you can play it at any difficulty and thrive, its not a bad weapon its just different enough to be awkward and cause people to not like it which is fine lol

[flat mist]

Too bad they're mid as hell even on bonesaw, huh

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw just feels sad to use really

[tropic crag]

they're what cause HV to take over on the bonesaw... they aren't mid at all, you can stop dodging with the toughness one on auric its pushes your regen so over the top

people need to stop looking at things you can thrive with and pretending they're bad lol

[final temple]

I am actually wondering if targeted toxin or toxic renewal is more worthewhile

[tropic crag]

less good isn't bad lol

[flat mist]

Hahaha 15% base damage (and let's be honest, only 5% most of the time) isn't going to push HV to take over

[zealous ravine]

it jsut feels completely wrong though

[flat mist]

Especially not in tox mode.

[tropic crag]

i run it on chainsword and a couple other weapons but not on everything, i'm fond of them tbh

[tropic crag]

(its base damage, thats a big deal)

[zealous ravine]

heaviest feeling weapon hitting like a light one isnt right

[tropic crag]

chain axe feels pretty heavy hitting tbh

[flat mist]

5% base damage isn't very much. That's the amount you're going to have for 90% of relevant moments.

Excluding when you have 0% of course

[tropic crag]

not all damage modifiers are base damage

[flat mist]

I know that

5% base isn't very much.

[tropic crag]

it pushes you into breakpoints that make the bonesaw great and if you use it right its going to be 15% most times

you are going to be moving your mouse and hiting indiviual heads, it works like a few old vt2 weapons

[flat mist]

It does not.

[tropic crag]

you aren't attacking anyone until they die you are hitting 1 to 2 heads per swing, very quickly HV will take over

then eveyrthing just dies

while you face tank

its not the toppest tier but it aint bad and head hunting can be enagaging play if you like it

[flat mist]

Wdym you aren't attacking anyone until they die

[low harbor]

toxic renewal is very good

[tropic crag]

change target every single swing, new swing new head

like you're juggling people with lights on the greathammer

[low harbor]

targeted toxin is good but u usually can't afford it unfortunately

[tropic crag]

that old trick

[flat mist]

So you're not getting HV value at all

Got it

[tropic crag]

it 100% kicks on but thats why you never stop searching more heads, it will kick on the very first poxie you start to hit and you will clear whole hordes of elites without realizing you hit them

just like most scum builds

[low harbor]

also asked kuli abt this
toxic renewal ONLY WORKS if u get the melee kill urself

[flat mist]

But you're not attacking things until they die

[low harbor]

does not work if teammate melee kill an enemy u chemtox'd

[flat mist]

So they die from tox and your hv keeps on expiring

[low harbor]

still very good talent tho

[tropic crag]

no because if you're in that mind set you will swing again to confirm, here you are already dragging your hitbox to the next head by the time you swing, since the bonesaw has synergy with this method on both the wind up and the full rev of HV... another reason you're attacking like that is because you don't take on kill adren with bonesaw (at least i dont personally) so its another synergy with that method

you aren't attacking things until they die, if they happen to die then good for them but you've already moved on

[flat mist]

If you don't get the killing blow with your melee weapon

[astral canyon]

im gonna be real i dont see the vision

[flat mist]

HV can't proc

This makes zero sense

[tropic crag]

you do get kills with the bone saw ALL THE TIME

[astral canyon]

but theyre kills from tox

[tropic crag]

no

the bonesaw

it procs constantly

[low harbor]

bonesaw is just a dot weapon unfortunately

[tropic crag]

the lights proc HV all the time

[final temple]

I am pretty sure it has to be an attack instance for HV to count as overkill.

[zealous ravine]

if only bonesaw had more crit to apply more toxin at least lmao

[tropic crag]

it does, and bonesaw procs it all the time

[zealous ravine]

on shivs it was so easy to get silly crit %

[low harbor]

it has to be melee atk kill to activate hyperv

dot kill doesn't work

[tropic crag]

it has plenty of crit tbh, you just add more crit than other weapons

[low harbor]

and bonesaw is just a dot weapon

[tropic crag]

it procs it all the time

[zealous ravine]

gimme a bonesaw without the dots by this point

[low harbor]

then it's just fully dogshit

[zealous ravine]

lmfaoo

[tropic crag]

the actually light attacks aren't bad on the crits and if you build for more crits then you end up critting more than enough to proc it once and then it starts to snowball proc

[low harbor]

linesmen atk

actually just 3 cleave
wtf

ur not gonna believe this but shiv light sweep has more cleave than bonesaw's light sweep

[warm axle]

gotta active it's special ability, grimace shake mode

[zealous ravine]

bonesaw and the crowbar are like actually cursed or something

[tropic crag]

that makes perfect sense... any more cleave and the bone saw would be game breaking tbh

and because of the style of weapon it is you don't cleave you head hunt

[low harbor]

nah

[zealous ravine]

god i wish it didnt have another weakness on top of the ones it already has

[final temple]

idk. if you want to run bonesaw I would think you would want to lean into having constantly toxin applied, want as much cleave as you can get and maybe build into HC for the occasional oneshot and to path into pickpocket.

[pallid quail]

none of that surprises me lmao bonesaw is hot garbage

[tropic crag]

hyper crit turns off any tox stacks you build up without snowballing into new stacks like HV, thats actual anti synergy

[final temple]

how does HC turns off toxin stacks? don’t they turn off anyways when the target dies?

[tropic crag]

lol its a really good weapon guys you're just blinded by the hyper op options we have otherwise

[tropic crag]

read the rest of the sentence that you took that from, its the important part of the entire interaction

[final temple]

yeah. I do not get it.

[astral canyon]

me neither

[low harbor]

shred does it well enough

[zealous ravine]

its definitely one of the weapons of all time like the crowbar

[tropic crag]

HV snowballs into itself when it turns off your tox stacks because you can proc it again with the stack. HC does not lead to more hyper crits, so you turn off your tox stuff without gaining anything you wouldn't have gained any other ways you could kill things

HC is for ranged builds so they can make a melee weapon good with 2 nodes and not a whole tree

[astral canyon]

you dont gain anything from HV with tox either

[warm axle]

i dont know how well they compare practically but personally i would use a crit or cleave rampage devils claw instead. at least the special is useful.

[zealous ravine]

maybe the real strat is just going desperado

[low harbor]

the real strat is just running shiv over bonesaw

or better yet

just rashad

[zealous ravine]

lmao for sure

shiv has dots too

and uncanny strikes because why not

[tropic crag]

that is a misunderstanding of what i was saying, i was saying that HV instantly will lead to more HV procs so even tho your tox stuff turns off you gain the HV proc chain. HC just turns off tox and doesn't replace it with anything. I never said you get something, I said it replaces whats lost with something

[warm axle]

right but we shouldnt have ANOTHER dead weapon pick just because there is a monolith of an option in its place

[tropic crag]

one fills the hole it creates the other just creates a hole

[final temple]

how does HV snowball into itself for toxin? HV only keeps building up if you increase the overkill damage. that happens less than you think. it constantly refreshes alright but it doesn’t snowball.

[zealous ravine]

with how the latch animations dont work with AS idk what was the idea with these weapons being on hive scum

[tropic crag]

i'm sorry reading is hard lol i'm gonna play the game because i'm not sure why you keep thinking that theres actual interaction and not just replacement like i keep saying

it was more a comment on how HC is for ranged and not melee, because it makes melee good with 2 nodes and not a whole tree like HV

[final temple]

i might be confused by the term ‘snowball’.

[tropic crag]

so there is no melee build where HC is actually better because it always just creates a hole

[flat mist]

HC doesn't affect ranged attacks

[abstract inlet]

why tho?

[zealous ravine]

ogryn light bleed builds were busted

[tropic crag]

again i'm sorry reading i hard... I SAID IT WAS TO MAKE MELEE WEAPONS GOOD WITH 2 NODES ON RANGED BUILDS. NOT THAT IT WORKS WITH RANGED WEAPONS

[zealous ravine]

i think taht one club is still really busted actually

[warm axle]

knocking everything down into a grave to be was kinda dumb

[flat mist]

Bro pls go drink some tea or something

[warm axle]

but that doesnt matter because arbites exists now

[pallid quail]

lol its rly not. dmg output is abysmal and its super boring. all it has is sustain

[zealous ravine]

slandering bonesaw at least feels better than some of its attacks

[zealous ravine]

fr? havent used it in like uhhh uhh.. uhh

a year idk

[abstract inlet]

I just don't like how much stamina push attack uses

[tropic crag]

lol you are at least the 50th person this week that reads me saying "HC is for ranged builds because it makes melee good without investment so its good on a build that isn't investing in melee" and goes "IT doESn't WORk on RanGEd"

[flat mist]

It's not slander if it's true

[tropic crag]

not really 50th like.. 10th but its every time i say it

[pallid quail]

light spam ogryn hasnt been a thing for a year

[zealous ravine]

yea i just dont remember actually using the clubs at all

i use branx pick and the more stabby cleaver

[flat mist]

Maybe you should actually write it this way instead of what you said earlier

[pallid quail]

like 7 months maybe since they redid the tree ?

[zealous ravine]

stabby cleaver is probably the most awesome 1h melee in the game

[flat mist]

If it's happening 50 times a week maybe it's a you problem

[zealous ravine]

guh it feels like it was so long ago

[tropic crag]

when i type that much then people go "not reading all that" lol, so the battle against reading comprehension works both ways. I feel like saying "it makes melee weapons good with only two nodes" would have been context enough, i truly and really did

[zealous ravine]

nowadays people unironically suggest ogryn buffs

[pallid quail]

eh

[flat mist]

Can we buff psyker again please

I want more attack speed

[zealous ravine]

scriers gaze now gives 25% attack speed

[pallid quail]

the ranged weapons need some help. some of em moreso than others

[tropic crag]

give then 2 dueling swords so we can call then the dualing swords pls

[zealous ravine]

oh yeah ranged ogryn is so awesome i run out of ammo before i can even type this full msg

[pallid quail]

and ofc the comically underpowered nuke

[tropic crag]

ranged oggy can still kill better in melee than alot of class tho, so its not like... dire

[zealous ravine]

meanwhile hive gets 3 ammo sustain things

truly awesome

[flat mist]

What's really sad in regards to dual wield weapons is that hive scum literally didn't get any

Total fucking scam

[pallid quail]

honestly tho i think theyre gonna go back to what they used to do to ogryn ... death by 1000 cuts

[zealous ravine]

why did hive get 2 latch weps but only 1 dual wep

[tropic crag]

because only a crazy crackhead is gonna want to latch onto the scary thing

[zealous ravine]

yeah but its the fast dodge class

latch is the opposite of that

[flat mist]

Zero dual weapons*
Its not a duel wield weapon if it's literally only visually different from a non dual wield weapon

[zealous ravine]

oh that way

idk if they've ever done a real dual wep

[tropic crag]

unironically this is whats made me like latch weapons on the class... i HATE latch weapons, but with the mobility of the scum it becomes a non issue because you can literally just "nothing personal kid" around the side of things while you latch on and they die as you finish

[flat mist]

Arby is more dual wield than scum

[tropic crag]

and with the bonesaw if you can't latch then just dot them to death, its a "do whichever works" weapon

with the chain weapons not being able to latch sucks a bit more but you just heavy and pray

[warm axle]

the shot pistol special bash and shoot is so hot

in absolute awe that the d a p just has a single bash

[zealous ravine]

ranged wep special budget ran out for the daps

not that it was ever higher than 5 bucks

[tropic crag]

i'm kind of sad we didn't get some gimicky throwing weapon as an actual ranged option

[warm axle]

power whip never

[low harbor]

I think some parts of their kit need major overhauls (mostly buffs)

[zealous ravine]

if the animator had to make a whip they'd show up to work with a bomb vest probably

[warm axle]

now thats a real vacation break

[tropic crag]

i kind of think they are fine, they just feel extra bad right now because they aren't benefiting as much from the dodge bug that makes us all invincible atm

[low harbor]

nah some parts of their kit are really bad

[tropic crag]

some weapons could probably use a small tiny number change

[low harbor]

this is not a me-only opinion

[tropic crag]

what parts?

[warm axle]

yeah we are playing in a broken game rn, but people did play before that and know it needed to be tweaked much more

[low harbor]

majority of right side

[tranquil fjord]

although all of the other classes got contemporary damage buffs for the enemy health buffs, ogryn got none for the already struggling weapons

[tropic crag]

if it gets tweaked upwards then we'll have a problem, currently it works fine if you play it as a not "i'm only gonna shoot my gun" build and outright broken if used with the rumbler lol... i think expecting every ranged focused build to have unlimited ammo is whats making the game worse overall

we should scale that back more than give it to more classes

[low harbor]

rumbler is the only special case, majority of og's ranged weapons are at least 1 tier below their human counterparts

[tropic crag]

like when i use gungryn in auric i'm usually never needing to pick up ammo even without scum or vet on the team

[low harbor]

and the right side basically doesn't work properly

[tropic crag]

thats a power creep issue more than it is an ogryn issue

[low harbor]

the entire bottom right branch is logically fked

[low harbor]

no

[tropic crag]

yeah, the game is getting too easy and they can't keep trying to fix it on the enemy side

[low harbor]

this was already the case before bound by duty significantly buffed other classes' dmg

[warm axle]

this is a YEARS long problem that they cannot fix because they get review bombed if they nerf the player power economy

[tropic crag]

wasn't that around the time the slap h40 happened?

[low harbor]

bound by duty actually nerfed og's ranged

but I'm guessing people don't understand why

[tropic crag]

yeah because it was so over powered it was a meme to the oggy players

[warm axle]

yeah, which was already dog water

[tropic crag]

same way gunscum is currently a meme to scum players

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-oh-no-anyway-gif-18887547

[low harbor]

no

[tropic crag]

i was there lol in the chat lol

[low harbor]

(they nerfed the 1 good og gun for sniping)

[tropic crag]

they nerfed rock?

[warm axle]

the kickback :(

[tropic crag]

yeah the kickback was a meme the entire time from when it got super buffed till it got toned back down

it was comically op

[low harbor]

it was not the kickback lol

[warm axle]

yeah i know lmao

[tropic crag]

oggy was comically op for a long time

[warm axle]

helbore 2 heavy stubber

[tropic crag]

lol yeah you don't need this gun is the funny part

[low harbor]

yea still a nerf

and pretty sure GG got nerfed alongside tho GG was alrdy dogshit for breakpoints so it's not like it made a huge difference

[tropic crag]

gungryn is still fine, you just can't hose the whole time, if you shoot in bursts and melee some you don't even need ammo pickups unless you're playing havok and then you only need the couple you'll have access too anyway

[zealous ravine]

i dotn even rember what right side keystone on ogryn does

[low harbor]

the entire right side is just fked

[tropic crag]

lucky bullet

[low harbor]

needs full rework

genuinely everything

[tropic crag]

to what?

[amber sundial]

some buff on kill and bullet dupe

[low harbor]

the only thing that should stay is prob the ult?

[low harbor]

og right side trades very substantially on melee to use gun and og's guns are generally below avg

if u want to argue against this then ur missing the point somewhere

[teal nova]

I don't instantly win every single game therefore the class is underpowered and needs full rework

genuinely everything

[tropic crag]

...it doesn't trade anything... you... you still have alot of the same toughness on melee things because yu're an oggy and not taking those is... why would you not take those?

did you not get fed your rashuns?

[warm axle]

i do right side... then left; for my GG and PM ogryn

[zealous ravine]

i think running out of ammo every 3 seconds is awesome actually

[low harbor]

I'm sorry what

[zealous ravine]

gungryn is so jolly

[teal nova]

the devs need to make it so loading into a game as hive scum instantly shows a "you win" screen

[zealous ravine]

oh we're complaining about ogryn rn actually

[teal nova]

only then will the hivescum not be trash

[low harbor]

are u seriously thinking right side ogryn is anywhere near heavy hitter

[tropic crag]

that only happens if you shoot at hordes, you can just melt the hordes with melee and shoot actual ranged enemies and be fine

[fallen arrow]

Gungryn is fine, it definitely feels overshadowed by things like Desperado

But its fine

[warm axle]

sorry you need to play fire n the flames before you get your w, and pray your "band" doesnt tank the show

[tropic crag]

if you're still building the same build as before the changes then yes you'll feel like you're trading... but you change the build with the meta, you can still get at least one or two of the melee toughness nodes in your build and still grab everything you need from the right side

[low harbor]

ur looking at a class fundamentally based around melee frontline (who has subpar guns) and then he gets a branch that's just "u ditch melee for gun"

[bronze glade]

all right side ogryn is for rumbler memes

[low harbor]

the entire design philosophy behind right side is just wrong

[bronze glade]

and piss off your team

[warm axle]

and gg for people with ethics!

[tropic crag]

it doesn't ditch it, its made for you to melee alot, thats why your ult swaps to your ranged weapons... in case you happen to be meleeing at that moment

[warm axle]

war crumblers

[low harbor]

yea ur just 100% missing the point here

it's ok

[tropic crag]

just like scum is "technically" made for vultures to melee, otherwise they woudln't have put hypercrit over there

[zealous ravine]

meanwhile hive scum has infinite ammo from 2 sources

[tropic crag]

honestly i think you're expecting more than what its meant to be, because even in table top gluggers could melee good

like in lore theres no such thing as an oggy who doesn't throw a punch, so the glugger should be meleeing some and the trees and weapons have the tools to enable that

[tropic crag]

i wish they'd stop doing the unlimited ammo thing, its been a mistake they keep making since the elf lol

like just remove all ammo powers and balance around ammo on map or something

[zealous ravine]

scriers gaze now gives infinite ammo

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-19335672

[fallen arrow]

Executioner's gives infinite+1 ammo

[zealous ravine]

dclaw nerfed to compensate

[fallen arrow]

Thammer deleted

[zealous ravine]

vet was given more ptsd for balancing purposes

[tropic crag]

i would accept this just for the memes that would come from gun pysker being even more op would bring

[fallen arrow]

Vet will now scream whenever they say anything

[zealous ravine]

god if they buff scriers gaze again it woudl be VERY funny

[tropic crag]

at least scriers gaze takes a bit of work and the build makes you hyper deaf when you use it

so it has some drawbacks

[fallen arrow]

Scrier's should give the psyker 150% extra movement speed

[bronze glade]

does it

press F to W + LMB through the match

[zealous ravine]

w+lmb is most of psyker

[tropic crag]

lol having to aim and not being able to hear sound queues for the last like 10 seconds of it

[zealous ravine]

well ig some weapons do lmb+rmb

[dim moth]

did you know you can actually make that sound quieter

[flat mist]

You're also fundamentally misunderstanding fatshark and ignoring recent events. Do you remember how they moved a ton of talents around just after a scum was released? It's absurd to look at every single decision FS makes and assume there must be complex intentionality behind it for you to devise

[bronze glade]

you don't even have to aim if you use FGS like most gunkers

[tropic crag]

but honestly this is how i play basically all melee scum builds

[tropic crag]

lol i don't turn down any of the annoying settings, i need the entire experience of fighting blind and deaf sometimes

[zealous ravine]

gunker look inside hasnt used gun entire match

and thats awesome

[low harbor]

as it currently stands, og's "good enough" melee prowess is entirely based on left/middle
right side og gets none of the core kit that makes og good at melee (no stagger bonus, way less dmg)
idk how u even can come to the conclusion that gun og is good at melee because he currently just isn't
gun og is supposed to be good at melee, he should be a branch that's good at melee that happens to also be good at gun, not this "ditch melee for gun" approach that it currently is

[gilded oar]

dont suppose there's a damage numbers mod lol. i want to increase my dopamine hit with toxin scum 😛

[tropic crag]

thats not my intention at all, and they literally didn't go against any original design choices with them moving everything around, they kept it exactly the same in theory just moved around what came when

[tropic crag]

just take haymaker man

[low harbor]

??

[zealous ravine]

legendary haymaker mention

[low harbor]

legendary ragebait

[tropic crag]

that and your blitz handles any problem outside of h40 and things don't need to get super balanced around h40 because that would ruin the game as a whole

[flat mist]

Hyper critical being on the left isn't some secret hint that you're supposed to use melee with vultures

[low harbor]

bro actually is trying his damn hardest to be wrong lol

[dim moth]

I do think glugger has a lot of melee strength just by being an ogryn

[tropic crag]

its not, that would be actually stupid. I'm kind of offended you think i'm that stupid. I was saying its there because FS assumes that people will use melee sometimes even on a ranged build. That melee needs scaling. So its provided on that side because it doesn't synergize well with the rest of the melee tree and it makes it convienent for the build its best on.

[dim moth]

you can still just push ragers around even with no melee talents

and oggy melees have huge stagger/cleave

[zealous ravine]

thank god fatshark at least learned that tossing talents around at random was bad with zealot tree rework lmao

[dim moth]

glugger will clear hordes slower than melee oggy but they have the most important safety crowd control features for it just kinda built in

[low harbor]

the stagger part actually debatable, they're not as impressive on the elite stagger breakpoints as people are led to believe

[tropic crag]

i don't envy them with the zealot, i don't even begin to have an idea how to make that class good and fun

[zealous ravine]

probably more faith stuff

[low harbor]

are u sure they learnt

[tropic crag]

like not even excusing them because they made the first design, but at this point i don't know how to fix the zealot

[dim moth]

oh my goodness right tree scum reference

[low harbor]

cuz the current zealot tree still has issues like that

[tropic crag]

zealot is the only class i don't play

[zealous ravine]

i dont know i cant visualize fatshark as like a real game studio by this point

truly incomprehensible

[dim moth]

actually yeah now that you mention it it's just that they all tend to have good staggering specials

[tropic crag]

they care about their games alot and at this point they are making some pretty complex games, like earnestly... and they are pioneers in certain ways, even more so in the genre... they aren't as shitty as people like to pretend

[dim moth]

club slap, shovel punch, power maul EXPLOSION

cleaver punch

[zealous ravine]

oh im not saying it as a bad thing i just dont get them at all

[dim moth]

shield has great stagger but that's not really a glugger weapon

[tropic crag]

lol fair, they are kind of... eccentric in their whims

[flat mist]

Or it's on that side for for more arbitrary reasons (because it's gotta go somewhere) or actually likely reasons (to balance your ability to take nodes that scale well together without any travel tax)

[low harbor]

and most of those stagger attacks are ass at dmg

[fallen arrow]

I never understood why people like to mog Fatshark because of a variety of bugs that come out in their latest patch. Does it suck? Yeah, but its not like they abandon their games and leave the playerbase to wallow in them.

[zealous ravine]

mogh

[fallen arrow]

Mogah.....

[zealous ravine]

mogh moment jerm

[dim moth]

true but most stagger attacks aren't really damage

[low harbor]

so the 1 weapon that does both stagger and damage immediately becomes the best melee available to the class

[dim moth]

yeah

[tropic crag]

i've watched FS for over 10 years, yeah... they make alot of silly choices but they do often design with intent. Sometimes that intent is just trying to make something work better. Yes the nodes design probably came first but its def placed right after the stam speed node on that side with intent... as a tax for the the speed node on melee builds since its so good on them and for an anti tax on the hc node since its such higher value for ranged

[zealous ravine]

i think fatshark is run by 50000 skaven

[tropic crag]

i imagined dwarves tbh

[near mauve]

the new move they added to powermaul made me enjoy using it so much on my brainrot taunt build

more than bully club

yeah the dmg is worse but every 10 seconds or something i get to do a huge KABOOM

[low harbor]

so significantly better that the only real competition it has are shield for blocking and power maul meme explosion

[tropic crag]

you can even tell the order was intentional since its a tax on one group they put the tax node first so melee builds could actually grab it. And i've seen enough FS employees play personally in games to know at least some of them fully understand the game they play

[low harbor]

both being super specialized

[near mauve]

the meme explostion is reeeaaalllll
u gotta pair it with fire stacks on explosion perk

and then u install kill counter mod

and then u see 50 mfs dead with 1 hit

[flat mist]

Attack speed isn't the tax node...

[tropic crag]

its not what i said at all, i shortened it to "the tax node" after describing it as a node you have to be taxed to get if you're a melee build. thats why its off center

its literally there because its a 2 point node

for melee builds

but if you have to place HC in that tree the golden place design wise is right under that... like i'm not calling them smart i'm calling it a simple and easy thing to come to

[low harbor]

tbh I think chemist is 1~2 points and a chem-dependency-tweak short of being a well made branch

[shut turtle]

im early into hivescum what are the best blessing for the auto pistols

[tropic crag]

i really like branching into right tree on rampage adren builds atm but its a really tight squeeze to get value point wise

[low harbor]

the 10% tox strength node's placement is so wack

should be smth else

[tropic crag]

yeah its a real "you gotta commit to tox" feeling gateway

[low harbor]

a few talents in bottom right can be merged

toxin mania and coated weaponry prob should get merged

neither is strong enough to be worth 1 point

[tropic crag]

i run needle gun on everything atm because all my builds are melee focused so usually the tox side feels better for that

[shut turtle]

what blessing do i run on auto pistols

[tropic crag]

not gonna lie i don't run auto pistols ever since i was leveling the scum otherwise i'd answer

[low harbor]

dual auto or shredder auto

[shut turtle]

dual auto

there the only things i got rn since im only level 10

[low harbor]

blaze away + run&gun/speedload

[shut turtle]

ty

[tropic crag]

at that level don't really worry that much about blessings if you can't find the pefect gun unless you already are resource rich on the account

[shut turtle]

i got a few thousand of each other one and a few hundred thousand gold

[tropic crag]

like its good you know but yeah just use what you can find for a while

[shut turtle]

should be enough

[tranquil fjord]

blaze away and pinning fire/run n gun/speedloader

[tropic crag]

oh yeah so you can shop a bit

[shut turtle]

and if i need more i can just go do some auric missions on my main ogryn

[tranquil fjord]

id only use pinning fire if mobility is dumped instead of collat

[shut turtle]

yea i dumped mobility

[tranquil fjord]

you need full collateral to hit the stagger breakpoint against plasma gunners for pinning fire to proc on them

[shut turtle]

i just ran blase away and run n gun cause i feel like those are the ones that would proc the msot

[tranquil fjord]

thats a valid choice

[brittle sierra]

I prefer pinning

I've noticed that due to how close you need to be anyways for the pistols for damage, you might as well just get more damage

[tranquil fjord]

the dual stubbers feel as though theyre missing a little something

[brittle sierra]

yeah they garbo 😔

[tranquil fjord]

i know they require more finesse as a crit and weakspot weapon

but they could do with

a little less base spread
a little more reload speed
twice the mag size

[bronze glade]

in a game where no weapon has realistic mag sizes, they decided to give dual stubs realistic mag sizes because ????

[tranquil fjord]

maybe a little fire rate buff too

i think also they should be able to reload and sprint at the same time

[zealous ravine]

perfect timing bonus to the trick shot that gives even more finesse is clearly necessary

[limber cradle]

The DAPs make sense tbh

[zealous ravine]

with a cool sound effect too obviously

[tranquil fjord]

maybe a punchier sound too

[edgy saddle]

Ngl i like the bo e saw just not sure how to run it

[vast yoke]

usually you run a stim crate build with dependency (crits make you apply more poison stacks) using the green poison for pretty much 90% of the time, 2 +3 stamina curios for more attack speed, cara% unyielding%/flak% with Shock & Awe and either Shred or Decimator blessings

some people run hyperviolence and enable the high damage by opening with a Heavy 1 which does absurd damage on the 2nd tick, but usually its good to run Hypercritical since you'll be stacking a fuck ton of crit chance anyway with it while pathing towards Pickpocket. Syringe Pistol or dual uzis, or anything else you prefer like dual stubs or shredder autopistol, even autogun

you can run rampage too, it'll be a lot more light spammy but still good, unfortunately tho rampage gives melee power not global power so it only buffs your melee damage not DOT damage

[tropic crag]

yeah rampage bonesaw can mulch just fine and is more of a "bonk brain" style build

i just like the cc on rampage tbh

[dim moth]

frenzy is better for crate builds

crit chance is best stimm to have for crate

and being at ONLY 87% crit chance with shivs is still critting all the damn time

[mighty belfry]

i've been liking finesse stimm more if i'll be real

[vast yoke]

true honestly

[vast yoke]

its insanely good on cknife builds ngl

[tranquil berry]

on shivs, finesse is probably better for you, but if you're sharing it, crit chance is probably more useful

[mighty belfry]

it's good on shivs too

[tranquil berry]

it's more universally useful

[sly hollow]

It's my go to for chem dependency builds (basically every build)

[vast yoke]

ya on corks

on box i'd rather run crit since its inevitable im running dot build

[void viper]

Hi, Do refinement stats affect bleed damage as well? so if i use the combat knife and put the refinements for unyeilding and crapace it will do more bleed damage? or is it only weapon damage

[woeful hill]

yes perks effect dots

only from the current wielded weapon

[mighty belfry]

idk how people don't realize staying in the church at the beginning of enclavum baross on a rotten armor is basically a deathtrap

[final temple]

*affect

[mighty belfry]

https://gyazo.com/0fd012716778f4895958de5d3944518f four horsemen of the apocalypse ah havoc mission

[vast yoke]

perks, global power (sometimes arbitrary what this means, but on scum it'll be Slaughterer blessing and stims), rending/brittleness and any global damage up should affect DOT damage

[limber cradle]

Demote button looking real good

[astral canyon]

Gya(tt)zo (kill me)

[brittle sierra]

1 scum 3 Arbis 😈

[main trellis]

I like this

[main trellis]

If no CC surely
If good CC then its acceptable

[mighty belfry]

if you're at the whim of randoms

it's a death trap

i have never seen posting up there actually work out well, ever

it's why i usually ping to go to the left side where it's more open so we don't get cornered because there's so many things to get caught on in there

[main trellis]

In my experience ppl don’t even pay attention to pings yet alone enemies or many spots where you gain rezources

Ppl blindly wanna rush the map without scavenging its criminal

[mighty belfry]

funny thing is i wasn't even the only one

and the team got separated

and things snowballed

[fast gust]

Spam pinging can work sometimes

[main trellis]

Classic

[mighty belfry]

i was spamming the hell out of it too

[main trellis]

I do that

[fast gust]

But chances are you'll trigger some form of ping goblin who will become a salt lord for that

[mighty belfry]

i specifically know not to go up there

[main trellis]

Unfortunate

[fast gust]

Or worse use the auto ping mod to ping enemies 400 times

Just to annoy you for this transgressions

[main trellis]

Jokes on them; such things don’t bother me

[bronze glade]

ah yes casual sub 30 minute auric match.

with my trauma psyker

[abstract inlet]

but I like la bomba

[bronze glade]

bistol desperado = traumaker
DB desperado = purge psyker
DAP/brauto/SAP/Vraks desperado = gunker

it all checks out

they played us for fools

HIV is just hoodpsyker

[dim moth]

what's stimm crate

[bronze glade]

irrelevant because it's not hood psyker

[ancient basin]

discount shout vet

80% off

[prime violet]

Watching people tweak over excessive pinging might be the most satisfying thing to do in this game

[eager reef]

Mfw I scroll wheel up to ping a crowd of crushers they die to anyway

[warm axle]

uh its satisfying to get muted and blocked? lol same

[eager reef]

I would rather have someone who pings excessively than a twat who doesnt ping at all.

[ancient basin]

when you triple ping the elevator when your team is jerking off in a corner 5 minutes into a map as 15 specials spawn on them for being slow and causing a massive waste of resources

you have not used your ammo, get on the fuckin elevator you heretic sympathizer

[eager reef]

Ive been seeing people flub about alot more recently

And it's starting to get end runs. One today we always had a players 40 odd meters behind us at all times

Never went down or anything but jsut stopped to kill everything

Wasn't even picking shit up

Like if you are going to.lag behind grab resources at least

[ancient basin]

Its one thing to be held up taking out a large ball, another entirely to be held up killing 4-5 fodder that are spread out. Which then leads to the director spawning 1 million specials on them and forcing your entire team to rotate back to save them.

I do go down sometimes when the shooters enrage me to the point I tunnel vision and sprint across the entire zone to bash their faces in because my team cannot use their guns, to busy bonking 2 fodder mobs in melee.

[eager reef]

Ive noticed since scum came out there was a drop in player performance. And now have a harder time playing if im not committed to full carrying

Atm I find scum super easier to carry runs on. Even more so than pysker (but to be honest ive never really cared for pysker)

[ancient basin]

as a psyker main I can carry better on psyker, but hive scum is fun too

Many of the current frustrations are from newer players too, so I cant hold it against them

[eager reef]

I dont hate pysker. But the class kit isnt fun to me

[ancient basin]

I do enjoy the efficacy of devil claw on hive scum alot though

[eager reef]

Scum ticks a bunch of hyperactive tisms for me

[ancient basin]

attack speed makes it feel really smooth

[eager reef]

Dclaw being good on them feels great

Love the weapon

Plus the class kit enables meme builds that aren't shit

I have a funny one whwre I put the crit CC on push on my crowbar and jsut loop the PA into a horizontal sweep

Its not great. But it is fun to do.

Plus once stacked up with perks it enables an almost guaranteed crit in the pick side

[ancient basin]

parry king into hyper violence horde clear

[eager reef]

Again not great but funny

[ancient basin]

so much bonus damage

ragers evaporate

[eager reef]

My favorite this far parrying bosses to death

[ancient basin]

I run the hipfire revolver just for the style compared to the needle gun

[eager reef]

Esp hosts

[ancient basin]

oh yeah, boss parry tanking is amazing

[eager reef]

Crop a crate and just parry

I adore rampage, but crate enables stupidity

Plus makes bad teammates do enough damage to be useful

Wish it was a tad bigger so I didnt have to watch where I drop it so often. But then again I tend to play tight with a team

Habit from being an ogryn main

Since I know the range of bull rush off yhe top of my head im never further than that away from another player

[ancient basin]

I run rampage adrenaline just because they feel cool. I have a build that runs chem dependence rampage and its stronger due to the better stat coverage and faster forge bellow rampage procs, but it doesnt resonate with me as much

more fun to swing fast, maximum crack head mode

[eager reef]

Other than despacito I love middle and right tree stuff. And its not like I hate it either

Triple barrel shotgun despacito is super fucking fun

The class enabling fun while also being good feels nice

Trade off being stubbing your toe wrong fucking kills you

[near vapor]

what da fuck kinda UI Im looking at

[stone crater]

Why

Are you

Pinging us

Two weeks

After our message

[near vapor]

its CURSED

[eager reef]

No this is justified

[stone crater]

So fucking what

It's been two fucking weeks

[eager reef]

The fuck is that ui

[stone crater]

Going to find you, and going to replace your kneecaps with pieces of cardboard

[eager reef]

I tried those for the certainty of titanium

[stone crater]

Your titanium will be reapropiated

[eager reef]

https://tenor.com/view/aaaaaugh-gif-26144251

[cedar cairn]

Is the Bone Saw worth using to try get max value out of Sample Collector

[woeful hill]

Weird ui

[stone crater]

Going to reduce the size of your cranium by six centimetres

[zenith fern]

Shit looks like a modern COD zombie UI

[woeful hill]

Semi relevant

[zenith fern]

Hardcore gamers when they see a game UI that is too simplified

Crank that shit up and make a mess

[stone crater]

Again, it comes with doing nothing but playing WoW for a couple years

You start putting your cooldowns on the exact center of your screen to see them easier

[zenith fern]

It is like the same sort of people that play games with motion blur and head wobbling on

[stone crater]

Don't knock it until you've tried it

[zenith fern]

[zenith fern]

When we gonna be allowed to use all abilities in mission Fatshark?

Just have four slots for stimms and three for all abilities

[fast wind]

I'm of the opposite belief hudwise the less info I have the better, the emperor will guide me

[spiral rover]

does the medipack ability thing hive scum has heal hp or just corruption

[drifting heron]

Corruption

Unless you use it with an hp stimm (which requires not investing in your cartel stimm)

[spice cloud]

Bonesaw is best weapon for stimm supp imo.

[peak zephyr]

Do hypercritical insta kills count for blackout regen? I've only seen Toxin kills not counting for it, but hc doesn't count as kills for other stuff so I wasn't sure.

[flat mist]

Literally the opposite. I hate ring huds teammate elements but a couple of the crosshair options are premium

Namely showing your throwing knives for shivs and a grenade counter for blackouts

[flat mist]

HC kills don't count

Worst possible blackout set up is bonesaw + needle gun with hyper crit

Almost never get any procs it's so cooked

[peak zephyr]

Thank you very much. Much appreciated.

[muted pivot]

What stim recipes tend to be good? I'm currently doing a drills+autos desperado/vulture, drills+Needle 2 rampage/adrenaline, and my next will be bonesaw+Needle stimmbox+not sure which keystone

[zenith fern]

Right keystone does go well for bonesaw and stimm deploy

[muted pivot]

I thought it was an antisynergy

[zenith fern]

I guess adrenaline is also a good one

[zenith fern]

Idk then, still have not played much of bonesaw and stimmdeploy

[muted pivot]

I might just be working from outdated information

I finally hit 30 yesterday so want to diversify my builds

So far rampage build is by far the most fun

[zenith fern]

The only good fun

[muted pivot]

Taking to Mortis with Emperor's Favoured is fucking hilarious

Constantly swimming through explosions of blood

Brings me back to my old bloodsplosion/rampage Krieg from BL2

[exotic temple]

Not right now. I don’t know if it’s a bug or intended but you can get the benefits of your stim from the stim crate even if the stim is on cooldown. You just have to leave the circle and come back

[muted pivot]

So you can still build up your dependency stacks with ease then?

What recipe would you use? I take attack speed and strength/crit chance on my left and middle builds

(also is that correct? Tank stimm seems pointless and CDR stimm I don't really get)

[zenith fern]

Toughness stimm stinks

[exotic temple]

Tank is kinda pointless and it kinda depends. I go rending all the way and attk speed

[muted pivot]

I figured that my shivs have around 60% Vs carapace anyway, so uncanny is all they need

[exotic temple]

If I’m feeling generous I’ll ask what people like because cdr on some classes can be broken

[muted pivot]

Oh, for chemist scum you mean in particular

Yeah, in that case I can see less crit reliance so rending is more favoured

My usual doctrine on any kind of crit synergy class is usually to try to eliminate as many non-crit hits as possible lol

[exotic temple]

Right but one thing to consider is there is a point where you get more dps from going finesse vs crit chance

[muted pivot]

Yeah, it's just not so trivial to see where the inflection point lies

[spice cloud]

Chem dependency is super good its basically a perma 20% crit chance and 40% cdr.

[muted pivot]

I see that, it's just that I thought it doesn't stack properly if you use the crate

[spice cloud]

It does

Both crate and stimm add stack

[muted pivot]

Outdated info then I guess?

[spice cloud]

Yeah

[muted pivot]

Is it generally correct to fully load your stimm?

Or is it better to have a faster cooldown one?

[spice cloud]

If you pop atimm first them crate u can get 2 stacks instantly.

Cdr stimm does nothing with stimm supp

Cause if you use ur crate with the stimm ready the stimm will go on cd

[muted pivot]

No benefit in making a shorter CD stimm I mean

Not a CDR one, just one with lower viscosity

[spice cloud]

Not really imo

Atleast not with dependency.

Cause u have perma cdr anyway

And mainly use ur crate for the stimm and sample collector to get it back in a fight.

I use cdr in my stimm with everything but stimm supply

On my stimm supp i pick strenght and att speed

[lapis raft]

it actually does quite a lot as you can rotate the natural cd and the refresh from sample collector

at least until they fix the "bug"

[spice cloud]

You can do that anyway

With sample collector

With full stacks the cooldown is like 30 s at most

[lapis raft]

you get it down to 42s with only 4 full chem dep stacks so no not really

[rough sun]

does anyone here actually have any knowledge about the average life of a hive scummer/ganger
lexicanum isn't helping me much and I need this knowledge.

[muted pivot]

I guess for other builds, CDR is constant high mode, strength speed is like having an afterburner

[spice cloud]

40% plus 3 curios with 4 is 52. 60s base means less then 30 actually.

Even base its 36 s only

[lapis raft]

its not cooldown reduction its regeneration rate

[spice cloud]

Still its only 36 s cooldown on base.

With 4 stacks

So around 30 with the curio

You will rarely get enough kills from sample collector in time to justify cdr on a stimm.

Because ull have ur crate way faster.

[lapis raft]

i dont think that checks out, it should be 60 / 1.4 as far as cd goes, not 60 * (1 - 0.4)

[spice cloud]

The base ability is cdr tho

So i think it does

[lapis raft]

see here https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3586590987

its just bad wording

[echo python]

https://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/novels/necromunda-underhive-omnibus-ebook-2019.html

[spice cloud]

Anyway the only reason for using a cdr stimm would be if its below 30 s cd

[echo python]

Necromunda books will be your best option because it's the one hive world with fleshed out stories

https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/necromunda/necromunda-uprising-ebook-2020.html

https://www.blacklibrary.com/audio/warhammer-40000-audiobooks/venators-mp3-2019.html this one has Half-Horn's story in it

[lapis raft]

with chem dep it should be ~42s, with cd stimm on top ~31s, but not sure how curio value interact with this after

[spice cloud]

Why 42?

[lapis raft]

60 / 1.4

[rough sun]

will do

[spice cloud]

Ah

I see kalma does affect it after all.

But only the last 3 effects it seems.

So the cdr stimm can be usefull to get the crate faster i guess.

So its not actually cdr tho they need to change the wording.

[lapis raft]

yea

so with curios + chem dep + kalma you get 60 * (1 - 0.12) / (1 + 0.4 + 0.5), so ~27s

[spice cloud]

Might use kalma again then instead of attack speed.

[lapis raft]

its pretty nice if you get bubbles/shouts/chorus on team anyway so thats what i run most of the time

[tranquil fjord]

i wish vultures's was a bit more consistent

such as that one could get stacks on any elite kills

[tranquil fjord]

and that its stacks didnt fall off at once

[heavy patio]

is high kalma and preferably low viscosity required for getting the stimmed penance?

[pulsar aspen]

The Stim Penances says what amount of Viscosity you need to have. It should be at least 50%.

[eager reef]

I did cdr and toughness as the same time and sorta just dropped it on cooldown

Bc it's bugged and you dont need the stim up to get yhe benefits right now

[pulsar aspen]

Ah yes, Bugtide.

[past trench]

Not surprised for no HS cosmetics last week, although Fatshark is going full Krieg since two months at least

[pulsar aspen]

There is only war after all.

[eager reef]

The question is if we'll get any at all

[livid raven]

a smart company would commission more than one skin for their new class

[pulsar aspen]

Necromunda is there, plenty of "inspiration" to take from. Although i hope it won't be a copy of Necromunda because Atoma is not Necromunda.

[eager reef]

It depends on what they are allowed to do.

While staying with the content rating.

[modest patio]

As I understand it they’re limited to already existing cosmetics from official GW media

Something about that is why arby never got cosmetics.

[livid raven]

while true, i don't see how that matters for hivescum

[modest patio]

Maybe they were portrayed so infrequently or something.

[thorny beacon]

Is the Enhanced Penance still bugged?

[rough peak]

marty zealot + rocket/needle hivescum = anti-daemonhost lol

[modest patio]

Scummers don’t have a lot of cosmetics in the existing media. Since FS can’t just create their own cosmetic, if it doesn’t already exist we won’t get it.

[livid raven]

they have a lot of cosmetics

[modest patio]

All speculation ^

My comment is

[livid raven]

lol ok

[modest patio]

That was the reason we received for no arby cosmetics, and I assume it’s the same for HS

[livid raven]

i dunno why you would assume that considering necromunda exists to begin with

[final temple]

We already got two Necromunda sets. Enforcers and the deluxe hive scum skin. That ship has sailed.

[rough peak]

It's actually really nice when you realize the person triggering the daemonhost might know what they are doing when they do it

especially when you can adequately back them up

[livid raven]

it's actually really bad when you realize the person triggering the daemonhost is not even lv 30

[rough peak]

Yep lol

[livid raven]

and gets mauled for absolutely no reason

[rough peak]

saved 2 of those while I was on malice with rockets

You don't get the option to nuke a daemonhost every day <.<

[livid raven]

i just saw an ogryn (on maelstrom even) approach a DH during a peaceful moment and mace it on the head the other day

for no reason, it wasn't even in the way

[rough peak]

that sounds about right for randos

sigh my rashad sitting at 51% first target due to me being poor is annoying

can't even 1 shot heresy scab bruisers because of that without any buffs up :/

[eager reef]

Been killing alot of hosts recently

Esp when im using dclaw

Get parried idiot

[rough peak]

I was due to having the rocket and randos being randos while on low difficulties

the needle does it way better, tho

[eager reef]

Needle stack + crate + dclaw is fun

No corruption taken and they do the fent flop

[muted pivot]

How many needles does it take to full stack something? Same with shiv throws?

[eager reef]

No idea tbh

I just empty the mag into big stuff and dive into melee

After swapping to single mind you

[low harbor]

5 (or less if u hit weakspot/crit)

[muted pivot]

Yeah, as much as I love the gas needles for long range clear, you gotta use the focused mode for crushers and bosses

[final temple]

5 shots.

[echo python]

We haven't received a reason for no Arbites cosmetics.

What FS have said is that they know people want more, that they can't do more at the moment, and that they are looking into it.

[eager reef]

Arby lacks alot of models is the issue

They kinda have fixed outfit

So anything for them has to be GW approved

Thats why we have to pay money to raise the visor

[echo python]

GW has to approve everything regardless.

[eager reef]

It just means they'll be alot stricter with arby vs others

Scum had a wide pool to pull from it just depends on what they want to do

If scum gets outfits before arby there'll be player uproar

[rough peak]

it doesn't matter if there is a good reason or not, I can definitely see this happening

[eager reef]

So can i

Scum can print money fairly easily

[rough peak]

It's a hivescum, not some specifically designed police boi

[eager reef]

What i really hope for is more scavenged gear

[rough peak]

That's be pretty cool

[eager reef]

As that suits the theme

[rough peak]

Yeah

[eager reef]

Plus they've open season on selling us 4 variants

Whether we like it or not

[eager reef]

100% stolen

[tranquil fjord]

i doubt we'd get any heavy armor for scum

but it would be cool

[rough peak]

Almost every single melee weapon I got offered has damage fully dumped, this dockets shop rotation lol

[astral canyon]

Pog

[rough peak]

They want me to try to lacerate hive scum it up... I ain't gonna do it, u can't make me take a damage dumped weapon!

[rough peak]

except flamer/needle gun/flame staff

[eager reef]

It's funny that dumping damage is ideal on needler though

[rough peak]

is stopping power really doing much, either?

[muted pivot]

Flame staff actually dumps warp resistance

Because it is detrimental, Vs damage which is neutral

[rough peak]

I know, I just wouldn't be mad at a damage dump on it either

[eager reef]

Most stuff on pysker dump that

Bc tou want to redline for damage

[muted pivot]

Pre itemisation rework, you'd accept one with 1 Damage and 1 WR

Stopping power might affect the DoT?

Idk

Since it messes with the ADRs iirc

[rough peak]

iirc mine has damage fully dumped

[muted pivot]

Needlegun is weird

I hatelove it

[rough peak]

I put carapace on it just for quality of life for killing crushers, since I'm still not doing serious stuff yet

[lapis raft]

i put reload speed and unyielding on mine

[rough peak]

Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do when I start doing serious stuff

[lapis raft]

anyhing to make the reloads less painful, would be nice if the tree nodes actually worked but oh well

[rough peak]

I'm still screwing around and getting my weapons to adequate levels

my poor rashad can barely 1 shot a heresy scab bruiser with no buffs up

It's so sad

[muted pivot]

Can't you get it to 500? 56 first target is killing it

[rough peak]

I'm poor

[muted pivot]

Fair reason

Sometimes I forget that the game economy looks different after 1500 hours and 800,000 dead heretics

[eager reef]

Ive been poor forever

Downside of attempting to play all but one class

[muted pivot]

Which one isn't working for you?

[eager reef]

I dont like zealot

[astral lintel]

true

[muted pivot]

My only almost-never class is veteran

[eager reef]

But not for reasons you might think

[muted pivot]

Aw Zealot's my usual favourite

[eager reef]

I hate zealot VAs

[astral lintel]

im poor from power leveling mastery weapons lol

[eager reef]

They just dont do it for me

[astral lintel]

at least u can dismantle the spare weapons n such u get from the other classes to get some makeshift ordo dockets

[eager reef]

I tolerate male judge enough to do the penaces

[astral lintel]

mine's veteran as well which is rough cuz i like the loose cannon

im usually ogryn or zealot

[astral lintel]

i love when some of the voicelines use the judge's serious tones back at him

there's a funny interaction with hive scum where they mock the judge for one of his quotes, and tease to see if he's listening or not

[eager reef]

Pysker is the same, only one VA i like

The German male VA

But i also dont care for pysker gameplay much

Just dont vibe with it

[final temple]

loner.

[thorny beacon]

Psyker has some of the best voices and I am also very partial to the gameplay.

[fallen coyote]

Did i ask for your opinion?

Theres also an interaction between psyk and one of the fem vets where the vet laments their downfall, only to get hit by a "sucks to be you lmao"

[spice cloud]

How can u possibly hate on the agitators they are hillarious

[eager reef]

Unfortunately I have a brand of tism that involves the sound of people's voices

[brittle sierra]

Yes

[spice cloud]

SINNER!

[leaden fable]

Erm have you tried not being poor? Smh my head

[rough peak]

You should have used this gif

Nope it got nuked since i posted the wrong one first

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1406988061509681285/image0.gif

That one <.<'

[astral canyon]

Shaking smh my head

[leaden fable]

Lmao accurate

[upbeat gyro]

https://youtu.be/9kKwJ6xEp4Q Using this as reference while leveling, thoughts?

I am switching around some of the main nodes though for sake of penances, and running Vraks IAG

[leaden fable]

Tanner build, direct to gorbage

[unreal stirrup]

me when tanner lindberg

[upbeat gyro]

He has bit abrasive style, but it beats asking here and then it spirals into 1 hour argument over how some game mechanics work which happened lasttime 😅

[unreal stirrup]

he literally spread misinformation

[exotic temple]

I think the issue here is it’s a different ip and gw is bad about requiring a separate license for a different ip. Idk how far they could take that inspiration without gw pissing in their Cheerios

[eager reef]

I trust builds off gameslantern more

[leaden fable]

The cycling debate on hive scum meta or tactics is likely just due to how new the character is, I doubt there's a consensus on what the real best way to build or play is

[upbeat gyro]

I like to get info from as many sources as possible and then compare to my own experience and go from there, worked with arbi well enough

[eager reef]

Also the class is strong and performs well with alot of different stuff

[upbeat gyro]

Arbi was kinda the same way, its good they arent anymore doing total trap tree parts like with Veteran

[low harbor]

What level are u rn

[upbeat gyro]

20 or 21

[eager reef]

Im fine with it tbh, class is overall good. Just harder to play for an average player

[exotic temple]

Best way to play is most fun way

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah ive noticed, sudden deaths happen where Arbi would just shrug it off

But its kinda refreshing, as the damage is insane

[eager reef]

The flow and feel of all 3 trees is nice

3 flavors that actually feel like flavors

[unreal stirrup]

arby whole thing is survivability lol

[upbeat gyro]

Nimble fixed yet?

[unreal stirrup]

yeah except they broke dodge linger

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah i double downed on it by going Forceful and True Grit also

[unreal stirrup]

true grit is eh

I don't think it worth it when you're good enough

[low harbor]

True grit op

[unreal stirrup]

BUT it definitely will save me in lot of situations

in havoc i mean

[low harbor]

It’s a really strong talent for 1 point

[upbeat gyro]

Thats the point, im back after 1½ year and had like 20-30 hours of gametime returning, im not that good yet that i should skip so powerful safety net

[bronze glade]

of all the DT YTers, why take advice from the idiot who also happens to be a misogynistic little shit and was banned from the the community?

[eager reef]

Ryken is the only one I watch tbh

[bronze glade]

there are plenty of shitty grifttubers

pick any one of them

[eager reef]

The guy breaks out spreadsheets

[low harbor]

It kinda depends on what build u wanna go for cuz ranged/melee/chemist are not the same

[exotic temple]

As an Ogryn main I hate to say it but arb is nice to have as another option for a tank. Arb isn’t such a pain to work around especially in tight spaces

[upbeat gyro]

Because i care about content that is well explained and to the point, i could care less if he is misogynistic, likes to dress as femboy or whatever, irrelevant for me

[bronze glade]

you want "to the point" content and you choose to watch the most rambly mfer on youtube? i

[zenith fern]

Idk with all things i heard and saw he does not explained too well and tells literal misinformation

[upbeat gyro]

The video i posted was 20ish min. And that 2 hour one was actually really helpful if you just skipped to the exact nodes you were wondering about, no time to watch it all

[zenith fern]

Watch his 10 hours video every talent node in the game breakdown

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1451299016016007290/togif.gif

[upbeat gyro]

Also im 80s kid, i dont mind if someone is controversial, find it refreshing these days as everyone is so uptight over avoiding being just that

[unreal stirrup]

ryken is good yeah

[zenith fern]

I am 80s kid and I like watching content from open minded racists and grifters

[unreal stirrup]

I mean tanner is literally a femboy nazi bigot

[eager reef]

Hey can we avoid another ethics debate? Happens alot in a channel about career criminals

[unreal stirrup]

💀

[bronze glade]

idc that he's a horrible person irl, i just care that his videos are informative
oh he spreads fake news? well it's been good enough for me
i want to watch "to the point" content, but his 2 hour videos are ok because i can just jump around!

the mental gymnastics to justify watching tanner

[fallen arrow]

I am an 80s kid and I love it when my Kick streamer tells me to end the lives of black and gay people

[zenith fern]

And commits homicide in live stream

[upbeat gyro]

Youre the one making those assumptions and projections, not me. I explained myself well enough already to bother with that bait.

[bronze glade]

are you a 50s kid? because being ok with casual misogyny seems more like a 50s thing

[zenith fern]

It was all for "self defense"

[bronze glade]

not saying it's you, but maybe it is?

[fallen arrow]

And then admits they did it for the money and views; they ACTUALLY dont have any bad views on gay or black people (the victims were neither black nor gay)

[low harbor]

U could try this
Shiv & needle pistol
@upbeat gyro

[upbeat gyro]

You are free to view it that way, i honestly dont care, came to ask about class building advise, not your judgement on my personality over my youtube choice of video

Anyways, gotta go do some laundry, bbl

[bronze glade]

advice you mean

[upbeat gyro]

Yes this aint my first languge

[bronze glade]

maybe go put on some misogynistic content creators while you take care of your domestic chores, since that seems to be your thing

[upbeat gyro]

Youre the reason i rather watch youtuber than ask help here, proving my point.

If you like judging people so easily, maybe go play arbiter, you have the mentality.

[leaden fable]

People here have strong feelings about tanner because some have been directly harassed by him in the past and he still sends people in here occasionally to stir things up

[bronze glade]

lol i mean people were pointing out that he's also not a good source of information

[leaden fable]

It's been a consistent thing since the game launched

[bronze glade]

so even if you don't care about the controversial aspects of tanner

there's still no reason to watch his channel

[zenith fern]

He still loves to brag about other content creators but sure that is not what makes him a bad person

[bronze glade]

you're getting shit from people

[leaden fable]

Probably about once a week they'll appear but that's just the ones I see so there's likely more lol

[bronze glade]

because you seem to enjoy his content anyway

[low harbor]

Which of the 3 builds are u going for with hvs, ranged/melee/chemist

[bronze glade]

which makes me question your character

because if you don't mind that you're consuming grift slop

why else would you watch his channel?

unless you also sympathize with his viewpoints?

[leaden fable]

Meanwhile you have the guy that wrote the "hammer of the emperor" guide for vet, currently pinned in the launcher, right here trying to give advice haha

[low harbor]

He’s just looking for info for levelling it’s not that serious

[rough peak]

Path is a true chad

[low harbor]

Just give him a better build or smth